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Derby Earnings - Who's In and Who's Out?

Now that the dust has settled from last weekend's Blue Grass and Arkansas Derby, and we have only the Lexington Stakes remaining, the Kentucky Derby picture is nearly complete.

Below are the latest graded earnings, as of today. From what I can tell, barring injury, the top 15 are being pointed to the Derby, although Terrain and Win Willy are tenuous. After that, things get a little tricky.

In trying to determine who the 20 starters will be, we first must deal with the Mafaaz situation. With an automatic berth into the Dance if they want it, Mafaaz's connections have said they will take a few more days to decide their plan.

For the sake of argument, let's assume Mafaaz will not go, because from what I heard from sources today, that is the way John Gosden is leaning. If that's the case, there are still five spots remaining. Who does that leave us with? Well, at No. 16 is Bittel Road. His poor tenth-place finish in the Lane's End, coupled with the fact that he has never won a surface other than turf has prompted Todd Pletcher to keep him off the trail. He will instead go to the American Turf at Churchill.

At last report, it seems that trainer Chris Block is leaning towards sending No. 17 Giant Oak to the Derby, even though he has only a maiden and optional claiming win on his resume from seven starts.

A couple weeks ago it looked as though Dunkirk would be on the outside looking in, but now, at No. 18, he is in. Obviously, he will be going.

At No. 19 is Birdstone gelding Mine That Bird, who earned $150,000 of graded earnings by winning the Grey Stakes (Can-III) last October at Woodbine. He hasn't won since and last out ran fourth in the Sunland Derby for trainer Bennie Woolley Jr. I don't think he'll be going.

At No. 20 is Theregoesjojo, who disappointed in the Blue Grass. In talking with Ken McPeek, Theregoesjojo is no longer on the Derby trail. His stifle locked up twice in the Blue Grass (which is similar to a hip joint locking up in us) and they are likely going to give him some time off. McPeek said Theregoesjojo seemed to come out of the race fine, but they will remain conservative with the colt. He is now being pointed to the turf.

At No. 21 is Flying Private. In talking with Wayne Lukas, the colt displaced a soft palate in his fifth-place Arkansas Derby finish. The problem is correctable and Lukas has every intention of sending the colt to the Derby. "He's by a Derby winner (Fusaichi Pegasus) and out of a Derby winning mare (Unbridled). So his pedigree screams a mile and a quarter. We're excited about going."

At No. 23 is Massone, who finished third in the Blue Grass. Not Triple Crown nominated.

At No. 23 is Mr. Hot Stuff. The third place finisher in the Santa Anita Derby looks like he is going, if he gets in, according to trainer Eoin Harty. Harty said the Tiznow colt worked four furlongs in :48-flat on April 14 at Santa Anita. "He looks like he'll do his best running at a mile and quarter. He's done his best running late in races. He's got some catching up to do but he's improving at the right time."

At No. 24 is Summer Bird, who ran a very good race to get third in the Arkansas Derby. The word is that he will point for the Lone Star Derby.

Finally, at No. 25 is Take the Points, who finished fourth in the Santa Anita Derby. It looks like the Pletcher trainee would go, if he gets in.

Assuming Square Eddie wins the Lexington and gets the first-place money, these could be your 20 Derby starters (if 20 go this year). If he doesn't and another winner comes out of the Lexington, it would mean Take the Points would be the first horse dropped. Again, this is assuming that Mafaaz does not go and all of the above stays the same (which we know won't happen).

Also, Charitable Man, seventh in the Blue Grass while making his first start of the year, will now be pointed to the Travers and not the Derby, according to DRF.

Stay tuned. As always, there will be lots of changes.

1. Regal Ransom:                 $1,250,000

2. Pioneerof the Nile:            $1,193,250

3. Square Eddie:                  $774,981

4. I Want Revenge:              $774,000

5. Papa Clem:                      $760,000

6. Desert Party:                    $641,667

7. Quality Road:                   $600,000

8. General Quarters:             $595,645

9. Friesan Fire:                    $570,465

10. Musket Man:                  $485,000

11. Terrain (g):                    $448,330

12. Hold Me Back:               $438,000

13. West Side Bernie:          $385,160

14. Chocolate Candy:           $370,000

15. Win Willy:                      $230,000

16. Bittel Road:                     $211,000

17. Giant Oak:                      $169,256

18. Dunkirk:                         $150,000

19. Mine That Bird (g):         $138,705

20. Theregoesjojo:               $133,063

21. Flying Private                 $124,000

22. Massone:                       $115,000

23. Mr. Hot Stuff                  $114,000

24. Summer Bird                 $100,000

25. Take the Points              $85,000

180 Comments:

Wonder if we will even see 20 starters this year.  With so many repeat stakes winners/placers and the number of injuries that have happened, seems like we might come up a bit short this year, unless a few undeserving horses (Mafazz?) decide to run.

Tread 14 Apr 2009 2:21 PM

Is it me or is it obvious Gomez is going to ride Dunkirk.  That being said if it happens POTN is a toss.

IWR still can't shake the fact he has won only against average horses.  Churchill is not the inner dirt at Aqueduct I am tossing him too.  Friesan Fire makes me laugh. He is off for nearly 2 months and he hasn't gone 1 1/8th and there are people still thinking about putting money on this horse....TOSS !  Then there is

Papa Clem... he finally wins a race and now he is Derby ready? Toss !  This is going to be the Dunkirk vs. Quality Road show.  Yes there will be 18 other horses in the race but in the end it will be the same story... Dunkirk chasing Quality Road to the wire in vain.  Who else will get a piece I am thinking CC or GQ.  Two out of the last 3 years the winner from the Florida Derby has been the winner in Kentucky...this year will be more of the same.  Quality Road 2009 Kentucky Derby Champion.

draynay 14 Apr 2009 2:24 PM

I would agree that Dunkirk could be the biggest threat Quality Road has to deal with.  If the quarter is a non factor, and with the real speed, The Pamplemousse and Old Fashioned gone, it seems to set up well for QR.  A grueling half (46 ish) might bring POTN in to play, but any sensible pace seems to make him more rank than most maidens.  Won't work at CD in a 19/20 horse field.

brettzky99 14 Apr 2009 2:55 PM

We need #26 You've listed 6 who aren't not going:

Terrain

Bittel Road

Mine that bird

theregoesjojo

massone

summer bird

handride 14 Apr 2009 2:57 PM

Draynay, only one mistake, otherwise it's perfect!

Take out CC and add in MM

Travis L 14 Apr 2009 3:02 PM

Handride: Did you hear that Terrain wasnt going? Last I heard he was. I wrote that he was "tenuous."

jshandler 14 Apr 2009 3:05 PM

Draynay- Quality Road is my favorite also, and for your sake, I really hope he's able to pull it off or you're going to be one red-faced racing fan.  It looks like Mr. Hot Stuff will probably get in so Quality Road better watch out for that hot-running late guy!!

Speedball 14 Apr 2009 3:10 PM

I hope MR. HOT STUFF gets in, he's improving at the right time and he looks like a horse who will get the trip. I hope Gosden doesn't clutter the starting gate with MAFAAZ, that horse definitely doesn't belong, and I think it was a silly decision by the folks at Churchill Downs to even have a horse from Kempton Park be guaranteed a spot. I don't think MINE THAT BIRD belongs either. TERRAIN and WIN WILLY look like horses who should be pointed to the other "Derbys" that are coming up, but not the Kentucky Derby. I'm sure Lukas will take a spot with his horse, FLYING PRIVATE, because Lukas is one of those who just has to have a horse in the Derby, and he doesn't care if it wins or runs last. He just has to be there!

Mike S 14 Apr 2009 3:24 PM

Jason, do you think it is the year of the Cali bred?

aspradling 14 Apr 2009 3:27 PM

Who saids Mafaaz doesn't deserve a

shot at the Derby?  He qualified because of the rules and he deserves to run.  Mafaaz has the pedigree to win and may do just that!

Max1 14 Apr 2009 3:29 PM

the Mafaaz situation is a bad deal. i could see extending the 'invite' to one of their (UK) G1 winners but from this race, no way. sez nowhip.

nowhip 14 Apr 2009 3:32 PM

Everything I've read points to Terrain as an almost certain Derby starter.

Pollas 14 Apr 2009 3:44 PM

My husband says take Chocolate Candy, I Want Revenge, Friesan Fire, Pioneer of The Nile, in the 1st and  2nd  positions then throw in Quality Road, Musket Man, General Quarters, Dunkirk and Papa Clem for 3rd and 4th and you should catch the tri and super. He says it is a little expensive so he will probably key on a couple of his first 4 and take his chances. He said no matter who wins it will pay OK this year. He said the race is tough, but expects the Florida horses will tank but can’t be absolutely sure.

ANNIE DUKE 14 Apr 2009 3:51 PM

Draynay is fantastic at picking favorites...In case you didn't know favorites are who most people are picking so thanks for offering no value. You also laughed last year at the idea of Eight Belles hitting the board so it is very difficult to take your tosses seriously. Hopefully this is your last post, we know who you like now...no need to repeat indefinitely. BTW, I am picking Dunkirk, but I am not arrogant enough to belittle the field and others opinions. Good luck everyone.

somario 14 Apr 2009 3:56 PM

The Louisville paper is reporting a quote from the trainer stating Terrain is going the next week in the Lone Star Derby and they feel he is "not quite a KY Derby horse"

Tread 14 Apr 2009 4:05 PM

Jason,

After IWR< Papa Clem and Pamplemousse got hurt Pioneer did not beat anyone.Chocolate Candy does not seem fast enough. Do you believe POF will improve 10 lenghts in the Derby? I know he's beaten IWR and Clem in the past which makes him look superior but the fact is that Clem and Iwr improved significantly while Pio has not battled the likes of Dunkirk Q/R and the improved IWR.

I guess Gomez will help me decide when he decides who he will ride.

proffessor pony 14 Apr 2009 4:13 PM

I not sure who I like for the Derby yet, but I not think we'll see a triple crown this year.

Mokey 14 Apr 2009 4:13 PM

Glad it looks as though Dunkirk will be able to get in. Things can change so quickly on the Derby trail.

Karen in Texas 14 Apr 2009 4:13 PM

Aspradling: Im not sure yet. Haven't made my picks but Cali can't be taken lightly this year.

Thanks for infro Tread. If that is indeed true, we might be looking at a year of less than 20 horses.

jshandler 14 Apr 2009 4:14 PM

Travis... I think MM and Hot Stuff will be on my ticket but I will wait to see some works.

Friesan Fire, IWR, and POTN you can toss !!!

draynay 14 Apr 2009 4:15 PM

Friesan Fire is still on top of my list. His work today at Keeneland was a beautiful thing to watch. Replayed the video several times.

Papa Clem's Arkansas Derby win made both Friesan Fire and Pioneerof the Nile look even better, because he finished second to both of them this year. Papa Clem also finished ahead of I Want Revenge in the Lewis.

I'm going to do my best to watch the works of the top contenders closely.

For Big Red 14 Apr 2009 4:18 PM

"Win Willy" is not being pointed towards the derby anymore, after his fourth place finish, he is a tired horse, says his trainer, so he is off the list for sure...

   Is it me or is EVERYONE forgetting about "Friesan Fire"?, I really hope everyone thinks these seven weeks off ruin his chances for the derby, I really do, That will make my pay off that much sweeter.....

Greg J. 14 Apr 2009 4:26 PM

For Big Red:,

       With you 100 percent on "Friesan Fire" since day one, Everyone will be eating crow after the derby....

Greg J. 14 Apr 2009 4:31 PM

Yes, Friesan Fire's work was very beautiful. People get too caught up on who will or won't win and miss the beauty...I hope other's will appreciate the video.

somario 14 Apr 2009 4:34 PM

For Big Red,

     Where did you get the video of his work?

Greg J. 14 Apr 2009 4:34 PM

Forget about it , just found it on youtube....thanks anyway !

Greg J. 14 Apr 2009 4:37 PM

Haven't made my picks but Cali can't be taken lightly this year.

The Pro-ride surface at Santa is 87% dirt, not?

That, along with the performances to date, Cali-horses will will be under my watchful eye with works at CD before I even think about tossing them.

I have a feeling Gomez will be on PON!

Polamalu43 14 Apr 2009 4:38 PM

Draynays attempt at logic is funny and a bit inane.  What is QR, your 7th or 8th choice?  What happens if QR doesn't get a perfect trip?  The only race he didn't he rushed up and then faded as JoJo beat him at 6f.  Not exactly a solid endorsement if things aren't ideal for him.

IWantVictory 14 Apr 2009 4:52 PM

I think draynay is right that dunkirk and QR with the mousse out QR is too big and fast for the closers and might pull away by 4 lengths to win. I think that Hold me back will be there too if he can dirt he is a good horse with closing speeed, watch out for mr. hot stuff as well blooming late and if you watch his last race he was closing like a demon!

bucnasty 14 Apr 2009 5:10 PM

Dray, i've read your comments alot in the last few months and like how you are up front. To be honest, i don't like your picks.

you can't ignore Fresian. That would be stupid with all he's accomplished. Personally i don't think he's at the caliber of Quality Road, POTN and IWR. one day i may eat my words, but i toss Dunkrik along with his trainer. He's arrogant, so much like Dutrow, and the way he comented after the Florida Derby rubbed me wrong. Thats not sportsmanship conduct. He acts like second place was horrible! i think it was good for running with the monstrous speedy Quality Road.

I've been around thoroughbreds for a while (all raceshorses) and know that the way Dunkirk galloped out wasn't good at all. He was drenched in sweat while everyone else(some who even had just as bad a trip)were warm, but not hot like him.

Dunkirk kind of reminds me of Curlin (who is my absolute fav horse) in a sense, and i think that the less experience is gunna drag him down.

IWR has been my favorite since last fall. I picked him then, and i'm sticking with him (even though he's a fav). On a side note, whoever comented on IWR racing against against average horses, i don't care who the HELL says those were average horses, if i remember correctly they weren't average a month ago. and only a great horse can run like he did in the Wood. amazing.

flyinhome 14 Apr 2009 5:15 PM

Does anyone rember Sarava winning the Belmont after only running as far as 1 1/16th in a race?   Don't worry about the distance for FF, Larry Jones had Eight Belles ready to run the 1 1/4 after only having run as far as 1 1/16th.  Draynay - QR had the benefit of the speed bias track Florida Derby Day,  Dunkirk will prove to be a far superior animal come Derby Day.  Need to see how POTN works over Churchill dirt before you can toss him.   Actually all of the above really doesn't matter IWR will make them all look AVERAGE!

MikeG 14 Apr 2009 5:18 PM

Freisan Fire to win the Derby! I would like to see the video of his work. If Gomez takes Dunkirk which I have a feeling he will, that means you can kiss Pioneer goodbye. He knows where his earnings could come on Derby Day. Not to say Dunkirk will win but being in the money is better than only being paid to ride the horse.

DONNA 14 Apr 2009 5:21 PM

I still can't believe Mr. Hot Stuff might get in after all. But then again, someone corrected me in terms of this crop versus last year's crop, which was the first time I paid serious attention to who was on the Derby Trail. Compared to last year this year's group of 3YOs are ridiculously consistent, and, even better, horses that haven't been injured are being taken off the Trail to pursue other races because they don't seem like Derby horses. It's refreshing, I have to say.

I saw POTN, CC, and MHS run - they were all gorgeous and POTN surprised me by being so rank and still winning, but MHS really blew me away with his gallop out. Maybe he'd like some dirt like IWR, who's sitting on top of my invisible list with QR and FF. I still have some doubts about POTN but won't be dismissing him until after he tests the CD track.

I'm still iffy on Dunkirk. Imho, he should be targeted for the Preakness, Belmont, or Travers. After Charitable Man in the Blue Grass, how good does Square Eddie have to be off that long layoff to merit a spot in the starting gate at CD?

Justine 14 Apr 2009 5:27 PM

Mr. Hot Stuff and Summer Bird are closers so far -and they looked pretty nice the last few days.  I hope they find "clear air" at the top of the stretch at Churchill if their connections decide to run them.  They'll need racing luck to get through the mob of horses in front of them.

I have to re-evaluate choices after the recent spate of injuries, but my winter bet that a gray horse would finish in the top 3 is looking harder to do!

s lee 14 Apr 2009 5:27 PM

Hi Jason, I am very saddened that OF was injured last Saturday & off the Derby trail! I think I'm gonna have to change my name now.  I am suprised at all the deflections in entries this year. Dunkirk is probably most definitely going, but I don't think I will pick him as my top pick.  I think I would pick IWR over draynay's QR, but I am very interested in what PON is going to do on dirt along with the Dubai colts.  QR reminds me a lot of Big Brown without the 'roids. But, as someone just pointed out, if he doesn't get the perfect trip what will happen then? Obviously, IWR doesn't have to have a perfect trip to romp!

OLDFASHIONED GAL 14 Apr 2009 5:27 PM

MY TOP THREE FOR DERBY 135.

1. QUALITY ROAD

2. I WANT REVENGE

3. FRIESAN FIRE

MATT H. 14 Apr 2009 5:31 PM

I JUST SAW THAT OF IS NOW OFFICIALLY RETIRED, WHAT A BUMMER!

OLDFASHIONED GAL 14 Apr 2009 5:37 PM

I'm only betting win bets on horses who have run back to back 100 + Beyer numbers and if my memory is correct that is only IWantrevenge and Quality Road.

I may dip in  the next solid wave of horses the following Dunkirk, Fresian Fire, General Quarters.   and use one of them depending on workouts and PP.

Just a reminder again to everyone there has been ONLY TWO horses IN The Last 19 Derby's who have won the derby that had never ran 100 + beyer before the derby...

The average pre derby winning beyer is 106.9  and only IWantRevenge and QR  would meet this standard...

I don't have the list of horses in front of me but if my memory is correct you can count these horses chances out of winning this years derby. POTN, Choc Candy, Papa Clem, Giant Oak, Hold Me Back, Musket Man, Imperial Council Mafaaz. Non of them have a 100+ beyer to date, they are not  good enough and if you want to take your chances with them  go ahead I don't mind using some of them underneath in tri's and supers but as far as the winner of the derby absolutely not!

I think I'm going to play a big double with Rachel Alexander and IWR QR, Dunkirk, FF

Rocker 14 Apr 2009 5:52 PM

I see Coa has chosen to ride Musket Man in the Derby instead of General Quarters seems like a little clue there too.

DONNA 14 Apr 2009 5:56 PM

OK.... this is driving me NUTS !!!

5th Race

Next Post 3:41  Off: 3:09 | 1 1/16 Miles | 3 Year Olds | Allowance | Purse: $52,700

# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show

6 Song of Solomon Mena M 119 8.40 4.80 4.60

11 Esperanza d'Oro Velazquez J R 119 9.40 7.00

1 Kiss Mine Coa E M 119 7.60

Times in 5ths:  :242  :482  1:12  1:372  1:44

Times in 100ths:  :24.52  :48.57  1:12.15  1:37.47  1:44.04

Scratched: Always in My Heart and Divine Sanction

Also ran: Indy's Sonata, Tasty Temptation, Uno Peso, Sidle, Abuela, Hand Crafted and Oh So Clever

Winning Trainer: Jones J Larry - Owner: Fox Hill Farms, Inc.

$2   Exacta  (6-11)  Paid $115.60

$2   Trifecta  (6-11-1)  Paid $1,624.80

10 CENT   Superfecta  (6-11-1-4)  Paid $317.92

$2   Pick 3  (9-7-6)  3 Correct Paid $9,381.40  Pick 3  Pool $62,715

50 CENT   Pick 4  (2/3/5/10-9-7-5/6/10)  4 Correct Paid $2,686.30  Pick 4  Pool $167,783

$2   Daily Double  (7-6)  Paid $248.00  Daily Double  Pool $34,934

This winner was left at the gate and had to fight through traffic to get the win.... so I guess he should be a Derby favorite!  People please get over IWR he won nothing in California went to NY and beat some allowance horses BIG DEAL.  POTN couldn't break a 100 Beyer with a tornado at his back and Friesan Fire is on vacation. Save yourself from yourself and put Quality Road on top and give yourself a chance on Derby Day.

draynay 14 Apr 2009 5:59 PM

Regarding the major preps. and the speed figures given; why isn't more being made of the Florida Derby modification from 103 to 111.  It is eight points.  And, we are just to accept Andy Beyer's brief article on the subject.  They had some calibration issues with the 1 and 1/8 distance.  We did not need Andy's revision to know how good Quality Road is, but it does set him apart from the rest (if you believe it).

ElusiveQuality8 14 Apr 2009 6:01 PM

I just read that Coa had decided to ride Musket Man over General Quarters. I think he made the wrong move.

Who does everyone think Gomez should ride in the derby Dunkirk or POTN?

I personally think he would be a fool not to take the ride on Dunkirk. I have already shared my negative thoughts about POTN and I believe Dunkirk is following the Curlin Path.  

I believe that Pletcher should seriously look at Calvin Borel for Dunkirk if Gomez decides to stick with POTN. Think about it Borel is on his track and his riding style fits Dunkirk perfectly. The move he made with Street Sense in the 07 Derby was awesome so why not. I know he uses JV who is on QR Prado just commited to someone I heard  then he would probably look at Dominguez then Decarlo. Your telling me Borel is not is good as Dominguez?

Rocker 14 Apr 2009 6:21 PM

TO DONNA AND GREG J.: Go here (www.keeneland.com/.../allitemsalt.aspx) to see FF's work this morning. Keep the link so you can see his one mile work next Sunday.

I've looked for videos of the colts working at Churchill Downs, but can't find any. Would love to be able to see the final works of all the Derby contenders.

For Big Red 14 Apr 2009 6:22 PM

Draynay.  Like your CC pick.  With Mike (Giacomo) Smith now in the irons you may want to move this one above Dunkirk (worst training job of all time makes the trainer 0-23 in the Derby).  I also agree with the FF toss.  He needed to prep. Now we just need the 10-12 that should not be running with this calaber to stay out of the way or avoid doing anything stupid.  Give my horse space, don't clip his heels, run straight, and he will win.

Householder 14 Apr 2009 6:35 PM

I think QR is the West's next big hurdle.  I also think that it is a hurdle what we can overcome as we have each time this year.  Inner track, outer track, IWR was going to bounce yady yada Papa.  

Householder 14 Apr 2009 6:39 PM

Whoa, "a great deal of logic" being thrown around here, only one teensy weensy problem - no basis with the facts. IWantVictory, Quality Road was sick when he ran in the allowance race against JoJo. It has been documented. Do you want to explain how Quality Road had his other 3 races on 2 different tracks with 100+ Beyers? And in the 2 races Quality Road faced JoJo afterwards, the rest is history. As far as questioning Gulfstream's speed bias, and thinking needs a particular pace, or type of track, my opinion would be for you to forget it. In Quality Road's running style, there is no weakness. Repeat after me, there is no weakness in Quality Road's running style. He doesn't need to be on the lead during a race. He can sit off the pace, and go whenever he wants to. That type of runner is true bliss. They will do whatever you ask them to do. He broke the track record at Gulfstream going a mile and an eighth; his daddy broke the track record going seven furlongs in 1:20, and that was the old Gulfstream. Quality Road's mile in the Fountain of Youth was approximately 2 seconds faster than any mile raced 2 weeks before, and for 2 weeks after at Gulfstream. You are looking at the proverbial "freak" in Quality Road. My only concern, is the quarter crack. It is a problem for any horse, a serious problem. We will see how he responds. So far, so good, with Quality Road's quarter crack but, we will see. You could not ask for a better trainer to take care of your horse. Jimmy is a master, just like his dad. Jimmy will not jeopardize a horse, if he is not fit to run. If he is fit, Quality Road will win the Derby. Johnnie V. and Jimmy will each win their first Derby. Keep in mind this is one precocious, intelligent, "Foregoesque built" type of horse, who can run all day, just in case, some of you weren't aware of it already. Quarter crack concerns aside, the other horses are racing for second money. Good Luck though. And, I promise to tell you after the Derby what happened to Quality Road during the Fountain of Youth, that never came out. Just keep in mind the word, "freak."

August Song 14 Apr 2009 6:41 PM

IWR and POTN...too many words in their name....More Derby Winners are either 1 or 2 word names.

FF has no 1/8th race with a long layoff...QR has a hoof problem

The 2 other dual DI and EH qualifers are Chocolate Candy and Square Eddie.  Can't see SE run this weekend and then win Derby -- soooooo Chocolate Candy gets it done with Dunkirk 2nd with QR 3rd.

14clubs 14 Apr 2009 6:45 PM

Dray,

Just toss the horses huh? The same way as you tossed Papa Clem from AK Derby consideration? By the way, has Win Willy crossed the wire yet? I was watching him till some maiden breaker went by him as if he were standing still. Dray, you're mediocre at best at handicapping races. You've knocked all the west coast horses and they've taken 3 out of the 5 major preps this year. And ever since you jumped on the QR band wagon, you gave him a quarter crack! lol. He's got a hell of a shot to win don't get me wrong but the quarter crack and you touting him are two BIG negatives for any horse to overcome. It'll be interesting how this race shapes up with all these stalkers entered. You got to figure they're going to try to get the jump on each other somewhere down the backstretch. If they move too soon it could doom them.

The Rock 14 Apr 2009 6:51 PM

If Take the Points gets in, I think he could run big he likes the Churchill surface, and he wont have to worry about shipping or going into the race at the last second.

Kid Carrots 14 Apr 2009 6:57 PM

TO SOMARIO: Your 14 Apr 2009 4:34 PM post made me smile. You're take on what I meant by Friesan Fire's work being a thing of beauty was charming and sweet. :)

The video is, indeed, picturesque, although I meant something else. The colt went so easily, just floating over the ground. He was relaxed and on a loose rein. His rider's hands remained at the colt's withers all the way around and never moved an inch.

In other words, Friesan Fire did it all on his own, as smooth as silk. It was actually the 3rd best work of the day out of 23 at 5f. Two horses tied for 1st with a time of 1:00.00 flat. Another horse went in 1:00.20, and Friesan Fire went in 1:00.40 (1:00 1/5),  nearly a bullet work without any effort.

For Big Red 14 Apr 2009 7:09 PM

I'm staying with my pick from well back, Quality Road. He has the look of something special. I can't get too high on Friesan Fire considering the 7 weeks between races and 1 1/16th being his longest race in his life. I may use him very sparingly as a saver bet just in case Larry Jones proves to be a superhuman trainer. That being said I wouldn't be too shocked if I Want Revenge or Dunkirk came out on top. Only those two have run anywhere near as fast as Quality Road. The value underneath in the exotics may come from Hold Me Back, Chocolate Candy, Mr. Hot Stuff, or Musket Man. Lukas is still very high on Flying Private who flipped his palate during the Arkansas Derby while finishing 5th so don't count him out underneath just yet. Closers don't win many Kentucky Derby's but they do fill out the exotics nicely. Last year Denis Of Cork (3rd) helped fill out a very nice Superfecta for me. I'll make my final decision on where my money is going in the wee hours Friday night before the Derby. Post position may play a major role in the outcome as well. Nobody wants to be stuck down in the 1 hole and it's far better to be out in the 20 hole if you have some speed than alot of other posts in a field as large as this. Post 20 is not the disadvantage alot of people believe if you have the right running style. So much can happen before the gates open and once they do there is going to be a number of horses who get into some major trouble.

There is no shame in picking whoever you want regardless of what some nay may say. If one could be right all the time there would be no sport. I can't wait for the song to play and the gates open. Best day in racing bar none, Breeders Cup included. Load em up and let em rip.

the _wiz 14 Apr 2009 7:19 PM

Hope Mr. Hot Stuff gets in...    Have followed him since day 1 !!!  His ''gallop outs'' are tremendous and he is just craving for more ground.  I agree with Mike S...

Mindy C. 14 Apr 2009 7:20 PM

I was upset at the news about OF as well.  

There are some really good horses in the Derby this year.  It's going to be a very competitive race and I just can't wait!  I think there are about 6 or 7 horses that can do it but it all hinges on how they handle the huge field, the track and the crowd.  Doesn't matter what IWR has run against, he has the true mark of a champion but can he do it at the Derby?  Quality Road, if he gets loose on the lead, maybe.  Maybe Dunkirk will dig deep down and prevail or maybe Friesan Fire will show that he truly is the best.  I still think Chocolate Candy will surprise and maybe PON will take to the dirt and continue winning.  I really like General Quarters too.

I think watching them work over the CD surface will tell alot and how they look during Derby week.  I have a feeling the horse winning this year won't be the big favorite.  I think there's some money to be made.  It's time for a big upset.

Monica V 14 Apr 2009 7:23 PM

Which horse Gomez chooses tells us absolutely nothing about the quality of the horses. Jockeys are notoriously poor handicappers. Eddie Arcaro wanted to pick Coaltown over Citation.  

dave 14 Apr 2009 7:27 PM

I agree, that Lukas will show up just because he wants to be in the Derby. Heck, who wouldnt.

However, his horse belongs. Jock made a mistake trying to go to inside of horses, instead of going wide and giveing FP clear sailing in ARK Derby. Also, now reported he displaced a palate, which effects his breathing.

He belongs just as much as any of them. Best bread horse on the Derby Trail.

1. Flyin Private

2. Pioneer of the Nile

3. Dunkirk

4. Friesian Fire

$10 Trifecta Boxed

Fire Slam 14 Apr 2009 7:31 PM

Look out everyone cause Pioneerof the Nile is coming to Kentucky and will be looking for some Revenge.

Good luck to all!!!

Rodney 14 Apr 2009 7:41 PM

Rodney- you'd better wait to see how The Pioneer trains on dirt before you issue any warnings.  I don't think he's fast enough to beat either IWR or Quality Rd

Speedball 14 Apr 2009 8:30 PM

GQ this horse to me is a 4 year old his first race was last year may 2008 with 3 triple crown in his blood he can win the derby

richard 14 Apr 2009 8:35 PM

I think QRoad is a clear throw-out. Looks like High Fly to me. The derby is an extra 1/8 of a mile which is huge when we are already talking about the outer limits for these horses anyway. A lot different than going from a 1 to 1 1/8. Several horses who looked a step behind will run way better and several that ran lights out will hit the wall. And the wall isn't a gallop out after a race, when it hits a horse it looks like Smarty Jones in the Belmont -from a blur to a sundial in a blink of an eye.  I say QR and POTN both hit it and finish way off the board.

I like Dunkirk, Hold Me Back, I Want Revenge, General Quarter, and Musket Man. Call it crazy.

Edward 14 Apr 2009 8:38 PM

Dray,

you are soooooo big on track records at GP, didn't they resurface the track completely and start over? I mean when I look at the TR's and they have been set all in the last 5 years, what a joke!

QR5th@best! 14 Apr 2009 9:04 PM

join in the dance?

Bunny 14 Apr 2009 9:12 PM

Wow...56 post and I don't think I saw the names of Regal Ransom or Desert Party mentioned in one of them!

Personally, I have Desert Party in my top five.  Has the pedigree and the dirt experience.  Thought he got an overconfident ride from Dettori in Dubai. (I won't go into my conspiracy theory on that one either)

Scarletandgraypimpernel 14 Apr 2009 9:15 PM

I think that I Want Revenge could prove to be the best come May 2.  He has proved that he can handle real, actual dirt (actually that's about all he likes to run on), and with him already at Churchill Downs, we'll be able to get an idea of how he handles the track.  Also, he's proven that he can handle adversity, and still gives his all when things don't go his way.  I personally thought his Wood was spectacular.  I liked hom last year, and my opinion hasn't changed.  I like most of the horses this year, and I think that the top horses are truly fantastic, top class horses.  

I hope I don't offend anyone when I talk about these horses, I'm not a top-class handicapper or anything, but I do have my opinions.  Pioneerof The Nile reminds me very much of Colonel John from last year, who also was considered a favorite after running spectacularly well at Santa Anita, but then, come Derby time, he flunked.  He proved that dirt wasn't a problem later on when he won the Travers, but I personally believe that Pioneerof the Nile won't do much better this year.  On to Quality Road.  I'm a big fan of his, but he definitely benifited from a speed-bias at Gulfstream Park.  However, his speed is truly unquestionable, and his talent is also fantastic.  He could prove to be way up there, especially with the lack of speed showing up with all the injuries.  I love Friesian Fire, and Larry Jones is my fav trainer (I would LOVE if he won the Derby with one of his horses), but besides the one time the track was wet, I didn't personally find his races to be all that compelling.  His coming in without racing beyond a 1 1/16 miles doesn't bother me, because Larry Jones did that with Eight Belles last year, and the 7 week break doesn't bother me too much either, becuase if that's how Jones thinks Friesian Fire will peak, then he probably knows more than anyone else about this horse.  So, my pick is I Want Revenge.

Chase 14 Apr 2009 9:47 PM

The quality of a jockey does not mean squat in the derby.  Shoemaker passed on Northern Dancer, Pincay and Mccarron didnt want to make the trip on Charismatic, Pat Day passed on Unbridled, Strike the Gold and Alysheba.  And big name jockeys have tanked the derby more times than they have won it.  If so call top jocks were a guaranteed, than guys like Stewart Elliot, Borel, Ronnie Franklin, Freakin Jean Creuget and many others wouldve never had a shot.  If I was Baffert i would just give the mount to Espinoza or Prado, someone who has won it before. I like Garrett, I´ve known him since his early days out on west coast, i just cant stand his blood sucking agent Ron Anderson´s tactics of jumping from one horse to another. Garrett remember that would´ve been you on Rags to Riches in the belmont.

larryb 14 Apr 2009 9:55 PM

Too bad for Old Fashioned. He was a better 3 yr old at this time of year than 19 of the 20 that went in the Derby last year. He was good enough to to crack the top 8 of this years crop.

2009 will be remembered as the year some quality came back to KY after a year of reprieve. Thank god that with horses like Old Fashioned falling by the wayside there is a number of quality animals left. If Quality Road or I Want Revenge continue to get better we may be witnessing the next superstar.

gw_bushwacker 14 Apr 2009 9:56 PM

Augustsong: I believe the secret was QR tossed a shoe... is that correct?

Big Red: I just watched FF work. You are correct. poetry in motion. He really looked relaxed and just fired all on his own. Of course the lay off is a concern but his trainer knows him best. We should have a heck of a derby this year folks. My favorite and the only time I have really gravitated towards one horse (PM) is out so now I am just enjoying all of them and know that anything can happen at the derby. As long as they all come out in one piece I will be happy. I am leaning towards IWR but can't ignore QR and his pedigree... love Elusive Quality... who could forget Smarty? Papa clem may be peaking at the right time. They all come into their own at different times. Sometimes it takes a couple of races for things to click.. then when it does.. watch out. Its a good thing I don't bet. I simply would not be able to make a decision..unless the Pamp was running : )

Karen2 14 Apr 2009 9:59 PM

LMAO Rocker,

RA and the derby horses you listed won't be no BIG double. Nothing like picking all the favorites. Give yourself a big pat on the back if one of those combo's comes in at 25.00. Why you may be one of a couple million who has that combo!! Can you say Handicapper Of The Year for uncovering that one? NOT.

slyder 14 Apr 2009 10:04 PM

My picks:

Quality Road

Friesan Fire

I Want Revenge

POTN

I have no idea what order yet.

Paula Higgins 14 Apr 2009 10:10 PM

All this speculation is fine, but we still have about 2.5 weeks to go before 5/02 (haha didn't say sponsored by...), plenty of time for everything to change.

QR and FF on top if it weren't for the quarter crack and front action respectively.  That leaves CC and Mr. Hot Stuff (I'm thrilled he probably gets in, cause his bro owes me money!)  A lot can still happen.

I'm inclined to agree that we won't have a Triple Crown winner this year, but would love to be proven wrong.  Shout out to all racing fans from L.A. to Casa del Prado and beyond!  See ya on May 2nd somewhere in the USA.

Aluminaut 14 Apr 2009 10:12 PM

Draynay posts the same boring comments over and over again every week and doesn't realize how boring he is apparently.  Meanwhile the rest of the civilized world knows that IWR and QR received almost identical figures from both Beyer and Thorograph, and I will take their educated and experienced analysis on the races run to date over Draynay's grade school simple-minded logic that always lands him on short priced favorites every day.

Now while their races run to date may have been identical, the real question is, can either of them duplicate it on Derby Day, or is the race ripe for a longer price?  Too early to tell IMO.

Tread 14 Apr 2009 10:26 PM

Speedball,

I agree with you on the POTN warnings, but Papa Clem & IWR had lesser Beyers than POTN before trying dirt. Look what they have now......... Food for thought. But yes, lets see how he works over the surface first.

The Rock 14 Apr 2009 10:51 PM

Can anyone tell me which horses will set the pace in the Derby?  I can say Papa Clem & Quality Road have the speed to lead but they just ran winning races while off the pace.  What kind of pace will be set?  This looks like it's turning into a turf race!  

By the way, how do you explain General Quarters winning on Poly in Blue Grass AFTER working 5 furlongs in :58 breezing at Churchill?!!!  He may be sitting on a big race on his 'favorite' track.  If he trains like that again, you'll have to give him another look...he's got tracking speed.  Your thoughts?

craftylord 14 Apr 2009 10:51 PM

Of these Four top contenders, who has any questions to be answered going into the Derby? QUALITY ROAD, I WANT REVENGE, PIONEER OF THE NILE, FRESIAN FIRE

QUALITY ROAD: Quarter Crack? 4 races?

FRESIAN FIRE: 7 Weeks? 9f Races?

PIONEER OF THE NILE: Dirt? Jockey?

I WANT REVENGE: Nothing. Done it all.

Could be the pick.

The Rock 14 Apr 2009 10:54 PM

Just a cautionary note to the Beyer's trend followers, i.e. the 100+ notation/requirement.  Not only was there the publicized change up (8pts) on the Florida Derby fig., there were changes downward (5pts) in the Hutcheson figs. weeks later after horses like Capt. Candyman and Hello Broadway followed up with sub par races.  Simply stated, Beyers figs. are not as reliable today.  Some handicappers will not use them at all.  I use them enough to know you cannot trust them as much these days.  

ElusiveQuality8 14 Apr 2009 11:16 PM

Craftylord,

After looking through Papa Clem's pp's, I can confidently say he will NOT set the pace on Derby day. He was laying off the pace off a 48 half before heading to LA and setting the pace @ 48 n change again. If Regal Ransom doesn't enter, I think Quality Road sets it by default. Slimmest chance to Fresian Fire coming off of 7 weeks. But I think that's unlikely.

The Rock 15 Apr 2009 12:14 AM

Tread...The Rock... you guys crack me up.  IWR beat no one.  The Gotham was a joke and the Wood was loaded with average talent.  How many lengths do you think Quality Road or Dunkirk would beat West Side Bernie by ...?  10 ? 15?  Quality Road fires 1:35 miles like its nothing ... do you just ignore that? First time at 2 turns fires a 1:10 like he was out for a morning jog... do you just ignore that ?  Does competition not matter?  The FOY reads like a whos who of 3 year old horses and Quality Road crushed them all....does that mean nothing? If POTN is a toss then so is IWR. We all know he can't beat POTN.  All IWR did was beat a horse named Imperial Council and Mr. Fantasy...Whoopee they are both average allowance winners.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 12:31 AM

Scarletandgray, I agree with you. I have rated both, Regal Ransom (the main speed) and Desert Party, way above, almost all the American horses. I have Quality Road to win in the Future Book pools at 14 - 1 and 6 - 1. I have a very nice exactas, Quality Road with Desert Party, and with Regal Ransom. The 3rd pool numbers for the former combo are $237 & $295. With the latter combo, a very nice $438 and $695. I also have Quality Road with several others, with some very interesting prices - Chocalate Candy $287 & $426, Giant Oak $892 & $1,489, Hold Me Back $554 & $739, Mr. Hot Stuff $1,405 & $2,617, Dunkirk $104 & $136.

In the Derby, I plan on doing a 5 horse triple key, Quality Road on top of Desert Key, Friesan Fire, Regal Ransom, Dunkirk, and Hold Me Back. I expect Quality Road to go off 6 or 7 - 1 in the Derby, especially after the quarter crack issue surfaced. I will be happy to see I Want Revenge go off the favorite, Dunkirk be second choice. I can't wait to see people enamored with I Want Revenge scratching their heads when he finishes off the board, over-rated, over-hyped, and over-done, beat up on a bunch of no-names, getting the "perfect storm" pace scenario set-up, with all other horses being on or close to the lead during a relatively fast pace, with horses running into a 30+ mph head wind, going into the first turn and coming into the stretch. To the naked eye, the Wood has to appear impressive, if one never factors in the pace for the caliber of horses he was meeting, and the wind. If you weren't there, you didn't know. People are going to get suckered in. I Want Revenge, the next Bellamy Road of Derbydom.

August Song 15 Apr 2009 12:38 AM

slyder: I understand that I have picked a chalky oaks/derby double but tell me should I throw away money trying to beat Rachel Alexander?

If you want to do that go ahead. I'm all about trying to beat favorites but  what do you when its quite clear she is the best filly?  If I can get a $25.00 + double why shouldn't I hammer it a few times? I thought the point of gambling is to win money? I'm not going to throw my money away to try and create value.

I said the following I think I'm going to play a big double with Rachel Alexander and IWR QR, Dunkirk, FF meaning probably $ 100.00 to $ 200.00 double. I can make decent money that way. I'm just playing the best horses you want to try and beat RA go head but to me thats a free square and one of those 4 will win the derby. Don't forget the pools are huge for the oaks and derby  even with favorites. So i'm not claiming to be the best handicapper just not looking the throw money away. I seriously wish you the best with your picks...

Rocker 15 Apr 2009 12:41 AM

FF, POTN, IWR, Et Al will face the same fate as Dkirk...they will try to get past QR but they just won't be quite good enough to actually do it !

Hollywood 15 Apr 2009 12:42 AM

The key this year seems to be bet anything that has ever ran on synthetics.  IWR, Papa Clem, and now POTN and CC.  It seems to be a great way to bring a horse into the Derby.  But before you do remember to add 10 points to their Beyers.  Hysterical Lady ran a 95 on synthetics (close to CC).  She hits the dirt at 115.  We all know IWR's Beyers jumped as did Well Armed.  Are they really "freaks" on the dirt? (seems to me that Well Armed almost stole the 1 Million Dollar Pacific Classic on Synthetic). Will POTN turn his 95 Beyer into a 110...Is this fast enough now?

Householder 15 Apr 2009 1:52 AM

crafylord:

i've been waiting for someone to start giving GQ some credit.  especially with leparoux riding him... he's definitely the one i'm watching for the upset over the faves- POTN, IWR, FF, and QR.

born in the bluegrass 15 Apr 2009 2:01 AM

This race is setting up for the deep closers. Too many of the favored horses are going to run their races together by the eight pole. Look for Dunkirk,Hold Me Back and Mr. Hotstuff in final furlong. Hold Me Back to win!

Ed 15 Apr 2009 2:03 AM

Chocolate Candy is my top pick for the Derby (for now): he's got the running style, a great pedigree, I liked his close a lot at Santa Anita.  I think Pioneerof The Nile will be 2nd - Baffert must be respected on Derby Day.  For 3rd, Papa Clem: a gem of consistency.  

Chic1978 15 Apr 2009 2:35 AM

Friesan Fire will not get the respect he deserves. First I hear from the "experts" that he has been overraced peaking too early. Now I hear seven week layoff will hurt him. FF seemingly is a very focused horse. He responds well to Saez equally in my opinion as Talamo On IWR. Similiar situation in 1989 with Sunday Silence. rarely could be considered favored over Easy Goer but overcame him consistently besides the belmont.

Gary 15 Apr 2009 2:48 AM

Draynay is a duffus, he's been kicked off of most boards, that's why he's posting here. He couldn't pick his nose, much less a winner.

guninpocket 15 Apr 2009 6:55 AM

The Rock- Yes,I agree that PON may take off on the dirt just like IWR did.  Since he's an Empire Maker,he should take to it and go.

Do you think Larry Jones will give FF a blow out before the Derby to help him contend with that 7 week lay off?

Speedball 15 Apr 2009 7:01 AM

win willys rebel win looked a lot like monarchos florida dby win.win willys ark drby looked like monarchos wood finish 3 lengths behind congaree but still coming.there is no point given or congaree this year.i would get a new jockey and go for it mac robertson.

ace 15 Apr 2009 8:21 AM

My Derby pick has been Mr. Hot Stuff since before he even made his first start. I have my fingers crossed that he will be able to make it into the KY Derby starting gate (he is 20th or 21st on the earnings list right now). If he does, watch out! He has the 4th best finishing time of all of the recent prep races (better than Pioneer of the Nile, I Want Revenge, Quality Road, etc...you can see the list in the latest Downey Profile story). Plus, he is a full brother to Colonel John, last year's Travers winner (1 1/4 miles on the DIRT) who was also the 2nd favorite in the 2008 KY Derby. In my opinion, Mr. Hot Stuff has the pedigree, the right running style, and the talent to win the 2009 KY Derby if he just gets a chance to run in it!

Grande Dame 15 Apr 2009 8:41 AM

Keep your eye on HULL running in the Lexington he could be a monster and might get in the Derby.

juan 15 Apr 2009 9:07 AM

Due to the fact that all the speed horses who were suppose to run are not running we can see a very slow run derby this year. All deep closers are throwout's in my opinion. Tactical speed will be the key to winning. The run into the first turn will be very very important.

Joeywoge 15 Apr 2009 9:12 AM

Yes QR is a complete throw out, won't get the ideal trip, has quarter crack issues.  POTN you can throw out, won't improve 1st dirt start.  That leaves IWR, Dunkirk and either PC or FF to run 1st and 2nd, with your favorite longshot to run 3rd. For me that might be Mr. HS.

IWantVictory 15 Apr 2009 9:21 AM

Pioneer's poppi couldn't win the Derby and neither will he.

DONNA 15 Apr 2009 9:22 AM

Crafty-  Great point about General Qtrs. with his bullet work @CD BEFORE winning on poly!

Polamalu43 15 Apr 2009 9:31 AM

Hey Dray...I'm glad you post...you're no more opinionated, changeable or whatever than anyone else here...

da3hoss 15 Apr 2009 9:31 AM

There are conflicting reports abound from different sources and newspapers as to who is in and out.

First Charitable Man is out then in. Then Mafaaz is leaning out to in.  Giant Oak is doubtful to maybe to in.  It's a mess as to what sources to believe.  Same with Mine that Bird.

I don't know what to think at this point.  

Polamalu43 15 Apr 2009 9:59 AM

If one horse is out there that scares me and I think will be running at the end, it is Hold Me Back. This will be his 3rd start off of a layoff, he has run his last 3 furlongs in under 36.5 seconds in his last two reaces, and could be a threat down the lane at CD. Another horse we need to be aware of is Desert Party. Yeah, he lost his last race by 1/2 legnth, but that was at Nad Al Sheba, the same day that Well Armed won by 15 legnths on the front end, which on that day was a very speed biased track, and DP was the only horse to make up any ground in the stretch that day. I would most certainly have these two, Quality Road, Dunkirk, and I want Revenge in my exotics

Billy's Empire 15 Apr 2009 10:05 AM

I don't believe a jockey change for POTN would be the worst thing for him.  Twice he's pulled Gomez out of the saddle, and the reality is if the pace is too slow he'll do it again, regardless of the mount.  What will be interesting though is who Jerkens considers his top competion.  If the pace is quick, POTN has to be considered, but there are no Sinister Ministers or Keyed Entrys this year.  Gotta think even Papa Clem is going to look for a stalking trip; hard to figure who is gonna lead them through he first 3/4s.  Regal Ransom??  Thoughts?

brettzky99 15 Apr 2009 11:01 AM

Dray: A month ago Imperial Council was your Derby winner, and now he's an "average horse." You are a riot.

jshandler 15 Apr 2009 11:57 AM

Rocker: I agree with you on Rachel. She is worth loading up on, even if she is 8-5. I am not a chalk player either, but in this case she looks like an easy single.

jshandler 15 Apr 2009 12:00 PM

No one has seen this horse from dubia thats why no one speaks of him. Desert party is a beast and will hit the board mark my words. Pull up the dubai race and watch closely. I cant figure out who to tosss, so far in my triefecta I have desert party, QR, Dunkirk and IWR. Thoughts?

anti draynay and thong song! 15 Apr 2009 12:03 PM

Jason I tried to tell you that they weren't doing the right thing with Charitable Man. Kiaran has to do what the owners want so you can't blame him. Derby fever ruins too many good horses. Just ask Lukas.

Tim 15 Apr 2009 12:04 PM

FYI,

  Just to let everyone know,  Eibar Coa, Who was on General Quarters in his win last weekend, probably will opt to ride Musket Man, Which will open the door for Julien Leparoux to ride General Quarters, He is the hottest young jockey in North America right now, Knows Churchill like the back of his hand, and is leading Keeneland in the current meet(35% winners), This just adds to why he is in my top three.....Just a heads up to everyone...

For Big Red & Dona:

Here is another link of the Derby Winner's(Friesan Fire) Work-out yesterday(Poetry in Motion):

www.youtube.com/watch

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 12:13 PM

TO CRAFTYLORD: In your 14 Apr 2009 10:51 PM post you asked, "Can anyone tell me which horses will set the pace in the Derby?"

The answer will depend on the actual field and the post positions they draw -- plus whatever instructions the trainers give their jockeys (which we won't be privy to).

However, the following horses potentially could set the early pace in the Derby (listed alphabetically):

Papa Clem

Quality Road

Regal Ransom

Take the Points

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 12:15 PM

Jason,

     Draynay also said that if Friesan Fire wins the La. Derby That he would NEVER Handicap another race....Too Funny!!!

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 12:16 PM

In the late words of Kevin Gomer ....and its DUNKIRK  all aloneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Inquiry 15 Apr 2009 12:27 PM

Greg J: Good point. I just saw that Leparoux will get the GQ mount. Another reason to like this colt even more.

jshandler 15 Apr 2009 12:37 PM

Donna,

    Empire Maker had bruised his foot only a few days before the derby, and got boxed in. Had he been healthy and gotten a good trip you would've seen him whip Funny Cide like he did in the Wood and Belmont. Yes i consider the wood a whipping, because he was being hand ridden during the stretch and beat FC easily.

LDP 15 Apr 2009 12:55 PM

Rocker,

That's a hell of an idea. If you happen to defeat the two faves you should get some decent value. I'm curious what that Rags to Riches/Street Sense double paid....? You'd have to believe that's what you'd forecast the least you'd get back in return.

Speedball,

I'm sure he's wound up enough. He's been running for quite a while so I'm sure he's just got to keep him happy. He's been spot on the last two years, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. It just a question whether he can transfer that form to CD.....

The Rock 15 Apr 2009 12:56 PM

Draynay, when Thorograph assigns the exact same figure to 2 horses, yes, whom they beat in the race has absolutely no relevance.  Why don't you ask that question on their board or at thesheets.com and see if their performance figures are to be interpreted differently based on who is in the race.  Like I said, I'll take their experience over your clueless ramblings any day.

Not to mention the fact that QR hasn't beaten anyone of consequence himself other than Dunkirk.  TGJJ looks like a complete bust and the only other decent horse he beat was a Grade 1 sprinter who couldn't stay a mile, which is not surprising.

I'm not sure which of the 2 will come out running yet on KD day, maybe neither, but it is indisputable that they are very evenly matched based on their races to date (unless you are completely clueless, then I guess you might dispute it).

Tread 15 Apr 2009 1:11 PM

Rocker,

I did the same thing on BC Ladies day. Parlayed the three locks of the day and just got drunk happy. $200 Win parlay to Ventura, Stardom Bound & Zenyatta. 3 dead closers as well. Man what a rush! Got back around 3 G's. Was at the track as well. That's even better to catch them live!

The Rock 15 Apr 2009 1:12 PM

Greg J.,

Thanks. :)

In my way of thinking, there's no substitute for seeing a horse in recent works and/or in the walking ring before a race. That's why I wish we had access to vids of all contenders' works leading up to the Derby, but haven't found a source that has them. I'm not big on the numbers game, like speed figures, Dosage, and so on. I do it the old-fashioned way, looking for what a horse demonstrates he's capable of doing, and for info on his current physical condition.

Have to say thanks to Keeneland for posting the HQ video of Fire's work yesterday. Were you able to see that version at the Keeneland site? Much better than the YouTube copy. I've watched it numerous times in full screen mode looking for various details. Even compared Fire's work to the several others linked there, and I read the clocker's notes.

I love the fact that Fire accelerated throughout his work effortlessly with zero urging from the rider. His fractions were :13, :25, :36.60, getting his final quarter in :24 to finish 5f in 1:00 2/5. Time-wise, it was third best of 23 @ 5f yesterday. Two horses tied for best in 1:00 flat, and another went in 1:00 1/5. I can only imagine what Fire would have done if his rider had asked the colt for anything.

In his previous 5f work on 4/8, the clocker's notes say FF "finished very nicely on his own, last quarter in :23 2/5."

He's got a mile work coming up on Sunday, according to news reports, and a blowout @ Churchill Downs a few days before the Derby. We'll probably be able to get a vid of the mile work since it's at Keeneland.

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 1:45 PM

I have a feeling that it is an open race among a few horses. So many have been doing well that it is hard to throw some out.It all depends on the pace scenario. I can see a few horses winning this race. I will be playing exactas. I will be playing a tri for top 5 getting 1st or 2nd with the all button in 3rd. I am hoping for a bomb at 3rd.

I am enjoying the banter back and forth including dray's commentary.

But my top 5 as of now is IWR,FF, GQ,CC, and QR but it can change from day to day.

RJPPDP 15 Apr 2009 2:18 PM

Jeff Mullens suckered me with Buddy Gill. Sure won't fall for one of his horses this year.

DONNA 15 Apr 2009 3:00 PM

LOL Jason. Dray sure jumped off Imperial Council's bandwagon after he got creamed in the Wood. Who do you think he would jump on if for any unfortunate reason Q.R. was out?

DONNA 15 Apr 2009 3:06 PM

Just watched Freisan Fire's workout. I replayed it three times. So in tune with nature he runs effortlessly. All others in the Derby will be consumed by Fire. Freisan Fire that is.

DONNA 15 Apr 2009 3:19 PM

Donna: He would probably go with Desert Party. He is the only one left of the 10 horses he picked to win so far.

jshandler 15 Apr 2009 3:21 PM

LDP, yes you are correct as I had forgotten about that. whoops!

DONNA 15 Apr 2009 3:25 PM

Jason... come on give me a little slack I did a future ticket on Imperial Council trying to catch lightning in a bottle at 60 to 1 but after his allowance win he has showed very little.

Greg J. do me a favor and don't put words in my mouth I never said anything about the La Derby I was talking about the Kentucky Derby look it up.

Tread.... jojo was a bust ? No... jojo was trying to make the field on 2 weeks rest that was the problem.  And who did Quality Road beat ?  You have to be kidding... watch the FOY AGAIN and notice the field is like a who's who of 3 year old talent.  AND his Florida Derby performance first time EVER at 2 turns was an all time best at the track.  Better than Barbaro better then Big Brown. Quality Road is 5 lengths better than everyone else in the field.  Name all the horses coming into the Derby that can run a 1:10 for 6 furlongs going a 1 1/8th ?  Friesan Fire hasn't broke 1:13...lol... Friesan Fire...get serious.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 3:30 PM

Donna I picked my Derby horse at the end of March is that not early enough.  Yes I am a fan of others and was hoping they would blossom but when they don't ... they don't.

You can't watch the Florida Derby and think another horse can deal with Quality Road.  Certainly not a horse like Friesan Fire who has not even been tested a 1 1/8.  I think that is why you have seen success in the Derby lately coming from Gulfstream because young 3 year olds are asked to run 1 1/8th where at other tracks they can run 1 1/16th.  Dunkirk already has 2 under his belt at 1 1/8th and that will help him on Derby Day.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 3:35 PM

DRAYNAY:  you were ok last year, but this year... I don't know.  When you posted all that info on that Keeneland allowance race, did you bother to read it yourself??  If you had, you would have seen that Song of Solomon is a FILLY, and one heck of a racehorse with two wins from only three starts.  SHE will make you eat your words, again....

helsbelles 15 Apr 2009 3:35 PM

For Big Red,

  Yes, The Keeneland video was awesome of Friesan Fire, That horse is pure poetry in motion, Has the total package, I was worried at first about the seven weeks, but Jones has his works going well, I think the mile, then the blow out will be perfect, I honestly believe He has a chance at the Triple Crown, I know one at a time, but in all my years following these horses, I have a gut feeling about "Fire"....

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 3:41 PM

I hope MR. HOT STUFF gets to compete in the Kentucky Derby, and I hope he wins. He reminds me of GIACOMO, FERDINAND and GATO DEL SOL. Those three horses finished in the money in some of the Derby preps, without winning, and they all had the same come from behind style that MR. HOT STUFF has. Also, with his maiden win, the nice 3rd in the Sham, and the very good 3rd in the Santa Anita Derby, I think this horse just might peak on Derby day. He deserves a shot in this race!

Mike S 15 Apr 2009 3:55 PM

helsbelles... she must be AMAZING ! She must be the end all be all did you see her get left at the gate?

Did you see her fight through traffic at the top of the turn to pull away for the win... my gosh it was amazing I have seen that since IWR did it a few days ago.... hmmmm

Come to think of it I saw a horse do it yesterday.... and one today...and one last week and....

draynay 15 Apr 2009 4:05 PM

Draynay, You told me to look it up, Well, Here you go.....

From the March 14th LIVE Blog(The day of the LA.Derby):

DRAYNAY QUOTES:

12:07 [Comment From Draynay]

If Friesan Fire wins I will never handicap another race.  

12:15 [Comment From Draynay]

The winners today mean little in the Derby... If the last 5 years are any indication  

12:08 [Comment From Draynay]

Teaser we will see what he does when he faces Imperial Council on a real track  

12:08 [Comment From Draynay]

I like Giant Oak  

12:16 [Comment From Draynay]

Dunkirk will not even make it to the Derby  

12:22 [Comment From Draynay]

potn is from California and is a waste of time although I do like the sire...maybe if it comes up wet ... but if the Derby does Desert Party wins for fun  

12:23 [Comment From Draynay]

He beat no one and will get beat by Imperial Council with Prado aboard.  

12:25 [Comment From Draynay]

Slew ... watch my Smooth Air kick butt today !!!  

12:30 [Comment From Draynay]

Slew I agree GIANT OAK wins easy

12:58 [Comment From Draynay]

Slew.... me and you know the

secret..... Imperial Council  

SO, If that is putting words in your mouth, then so be it, lol...

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 4:05 PM

I still like POTN, although never running on real dirt may be an issue.  He's quite impressive to watch.  Musket Man and General Quarters bear watching too. Wish everyone a very safe trip, no more injuries!

Robin 15 Apr 2009 4:13 PM

Greg J thanks for proving my point ! And I will say it again ... If Friesan Fire wins I will never bet another race !  He has no shot and your winner will be Quality Road.  Hey... how did you like my Smooth Air pick ?

draynay 15 Apr 2009 5:09 PM

What point Dray? You said Friesan Fire wouldnt win the La. Derby, and he did. You said Dunkirk wouldnt make the Ky. Derby, and he will. And you said Imperial Council would win the Wood, and he didnt. LOL.

jshandler 15 Apr 2009 5:13 PM

guninpocket... let me address you on the matter of me being banned on the site you are talking about.  I was banned because many of you on that site are a bunch of soft skinned babies.  Here on this blog we dish it and we take it.  I don't know anyone on this blog but I am glad they are all here and Jason does a wonderful job keeping us all in line. The blog you are at is run by one guy and if he doesn't like you he runs you off the board.  Why? Because he couldn't pick a Derby winner if his life depended on it.  And whatever you do don't disagree with him or he cries to the moderator. Give me a break...this is horse racing its a sport. My team is great and yours stinks.

For the Derby my team is Quality Road if he isn't your "team" than yours stinks plain and simple. You want to come over here like a little tattletale and tell people I am banned on a site...lol... let me clue you in... it surprises no one on this blog and even fewer could care.  The Rock, Culin, Slew, there is a host of them I disagree with but we banter back and forth and have a ball doing it.  Since your blog is so wonderful now that I am not on it why don't you slither back to where you came from and let the real horse bloggers get back to work.  Need a tissue ?

draynay 15 Apr 2009 5:33 PM

TO DRAYNAY: You wrote, "Friesan Fire hasn't broke 1:13."

Once again, Friesan Fire won his maiden race at Delaware Park by three lengths going 6f in 1:10 4/5. This is the second time in the last few weeks I've pointed this fact out to you.

BTW, the 6f fraction in Quality Road's Florida Derby was 1:10 3/5. In other words, as a maiden 2-year-old, Fire was able to run 6f as fast as QR did as a 3-year-old in a G1 stakes, and QR was aided by a track playing exceptionally fast.

The Fair Grounds track record for 1 1/16 miles is 1:42 1/5 set on a fast track. FF won the Louisiana Derby in 1:43 2/5 by seven-and-a-quarter lengths, drawing off with complete ease on a sloppy track waterlogged from heavy rain.

Quality Road will be coming up to the Derby off four lifetime starts and 35 days since his last race.

Friesan Fire will be coming up to the Derby off seven lifetime starts and 49 days since his last race. According to brisnet data, over the past three years Larry Jones had 192 starters who were off 46-90 days. His win rate with them is an excellent 17%, with an amazing 55% in the money.

Compare the following GRADED STAKES records (brisnet past three years) of several top trainers pointing horses for this year's Derby:

Trainer - Win % - In Money %

Larry Jones - 31% - 61%

Kiaran McLaughlin - 21% - 50%

Todd Pletcher - 20% - 48%

Bill Mott - 17% - 42%

Shug McGaughey - 15% - 47%

Jerry Hollendorfer - 14% - 43%

Jeff Mullins - 10% - 35%

Nick Zito - 7% - 35%

D. Wayne Lukas - 3% - 22%

Although stats don't win races, what this shows is that Mr. Jones sure knows how to train a racehorse. If you want to blithely "toss" a horse with so much going for him, that's your business, but at least do so on the basis of correct facts.

Aside from post position draw (hope not inside), my only concern regarding Fire is that he's never raced beyond 1 1/16 miles. Although he's bred to love a route, you never really know if an individual horse can route until he does.

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 5:38 PM

I never said Friesan Fire would not win the La. Derby...show me where I said that !  As a matter of fact I said those races don't really matter for the Derby.  Dunkirk I didn't like because I knew he couldn't beat Quality Road but... I have to admit after watching the rest of these plodders he is on my ticket.  And Imperial Council got drunk with Mr. Fantasy before the race and slipped and fell on a bar of soap in his stall.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 5:40 PM

Glad to see some folks are somewhat respecting General Quarters now that he's won a major race.I pegged him for the Sam F.Davis and tossed his TB Derby fiasco with the horrendous trip he had.His Bluegrass was no fluke,any horse who runs to the wire like he does,be-it on turf/dirt,sprint/route is classy indeed.If he gets a clean trip in the Derby he'll be tough down the lane,plus he sure likes Churchill Downs.And Musket Man's subsequent Illinois Derby confirms his status.Leparoux is a very nice replacement,I'd say watch-out,he's for real.

Draynay is laughable,he's easily swayed towards speed-figs & the latest "it" horse who posted them.Meaning he really has no clue to what's going on.Remember him saying that Dunkirk was just an "allowance winner" who had no right to be entered in the Fla Derby,yada-yada...then when QR barely beats a tired & exhausted Dunkirk @ Talladega/Gulfstream,Dunkirk suddenly transforms into Pegasus and now he's QR's main competition in the Derby.How convenient isn't it?..Let's see: QR has beaten-- the distance challenged TheregoesSloJo(twice),the proverbial Sprinters ThisOnesforPhil,Capt.Candyman Can & Caseys on Call,as mentioned the allowance winner Dunkirk,who BTW is solid but not as accomplished or toughened as say: IWR,POTN or FF to name a few.Talk about horses being over-rated,over-hyped and over-done,this one fits the bill perfectly.He'll be in over-his head come May 2nd too,with the above mentioned Bulldogs on his @$$. His high-cruising speed renders him vulnerable in the stretch ala Old Fashioned,and I see him being swallowed-up and passed by the "real" stretch runners.Toss him for your own good come Derby Day.

One last thing..Friesan Fire will be fine with the 7weeks in between races.He has a solid bottom to him and will be plenty fit with all those 2-turn races underneath him.Distance will not be a problem.No worries there....bbl...Peace!

Slew.em.All 15 Apr 2009 5:43 PM

Thanks Jason for backing me up, funny!!!, lol.....

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 5:54 PM

Show some love for Draynay people!

He's entertaining plus he can be really funny on occasion. I know,I know he makes statements he doesn't keep but...

Wanda 15 Apr 2009 6:03 PM

Draynay,

       A few more of your spot on comments(lol):

From the March 27th Live Blog:

12:27 [Comment From draynay]

Dunkirk has no business being rushed into the G1 Florida Derby  

12:31 [Comment From draynay]

The team to beat is Memphis get over it.  

((thought I would throw in the wonderfull Basketball prediction!))

12:33 [Comment From draynay]

3 horses have a chance in the derby ... Desert Party, Imperial Council and Quality Road.... that is it !!!  

12:40 [Comment From draynay]

If Dunkirk wins that means flying monkeys will be coming out of my butt.  

(I know, He came in second, but loved that comment)

12:42 [Comment From draynay]

Who is in the Wood.... Imperial Council ... you need no other name  

12:46 [Comment From draynay]

Yeah Jason he wore out a young tired Mr. Fantasy...huh ? We will see how good IWR is when IC really runs at him next week  

12:51 [Comment From draynay]

Win Willy ???? We are still talking about that horse .... lol.. come on get serious  

Too funny draynay, Entertaining, I will give you that....

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 6:19 PM

For Big Red, Once again, spot on with Friesan references...

Greg J. 15 Apr 2009 6:20 PM

Greg J,

That's a hell of a list Dray has. I didn't think it was that bad. Hey Dray, you know what bettors do when their up against it, down to their last couple of bucks? They play the fave. You're following a similar pattern here I'm afraid. Not only did you jump on the fave, but the fave in a 20 horse field! lol

The Rock 15 Apr 2009 6:23 PM

Big Red are you kidding me ? I don't care what Friesan Fire did running a 6 furlong sprint !!! Can he run faster than a 1:13 if he has to go a mile or more and the answer is NO. We don't even know what he can do at a 1 1/8th because he never ran it so... toss him.  I have seen Maidens at Gulfstream run 1:09 and change for 6 furlongs but the question is what can they do when they run a mile or more.  Quality Road runs a 1:35 and change mile in his sleep what does FF do ??? Check out the splits QR ran in the Florida Derby at 6 furlongs and a mile and then choke on it because the plodders he will be running against come Derby Day couldn't run those fractions with a jet on their back.

If those fractions do nothing for you watch the FOY and watch him run blistering fractions and come home with plenty to spare.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 6:24 PM

"Although the pace didn't seem especially fast, Fountain of Youth was the only one-mile race all week with a sub-46 opening half; in only only other race was the opening half under 47 seconds. In Sunday's Davona Dale, Frolic's Dream, one of the quickest fillies around, led through splits of 24.48 and 47.39. As for the Fountain of Youth's three-quarter split, 1:09.40, that stands out like a redwood in a pine forest. After the strange opening quarter (23.83), This Ones For Phil ran the next half-mile in 45.57, partly around a turn, and Quality Road made up a length on him. The average three-quarter split for the week was 1:12.84. Not counting the Fountain of Youth, it was 1:13.19, and in only four races was the opening six-furlong split under 1:13, the second fastest time of the week being 1:12.30. As for Quality Road's final time, 1:35.01, that too, is towering. The average for the week was 1:38.60. Not including the Fountain of Youth, it was 1:38.96. In winning the Davona Dale by 3 3/4 lengths, Justwhistledixie ran the second-fastest mile of the week, 1:37.67, which of course, is about 13 lengths slower than Quality Road's effort. And so what does this all mean? Well, for one thing, it means the Fountain of Youth was superlative. For another, it means that Quality Road, even though he has yet to run around two turns, probably should be rated higher than No. 4. And for yet another, it means he could become a superstar."

LOL, first the Gulfstream track was too slow, consider the Fountain of Youth. No one could run faster than 1:37.67. Then, the talk was Quality Road couldn't handle two turns. Then, the Gulfstream track was too fast. Man, this is getting hilarious. And, let me remind some folks that the weird first quarter in the Fountain of Youth, was the result of Gulfstream not giving the horses the 60 foot running start prior to the timer being started, as is the standard operating procedure at just about every other American racetrack. The second quarter was done in 21.72 after an opening quarter in 23.83. So, Quality Road's mile was really a 1:34ish, granted the other horse's times, running down there, would have been a little quicker, too.

People not having a clue about what they have seen, or what the other horses are dealing with. Evans was offered $2.5 million after Quality Road broke his maiden. There was a reason. Knowledgable people in this business are not stupid. And anyone who believes Quality Road will be on the lead in the Derby, doesn't have a clue about the horse, the race, or the connections, as far as I'm concerned.

Karen, the answer would be, "No."

I'm reminded of the true story concerning Vincent van Gogh. Only one painting, done by him, was ever sold in his lifetime. It was sold by Vincent's brother, Theo. But, it wasn't for lack of trying. When an art seller had come to watch Vincent paint and observe his style, he told Vincent that "What other people had said about you is true. You paint too quickly." Whereupon Vincent told the art seller, "If people say that I paint too quickly, then I would say to them that they looked at my paintings too quickly." The rest is history, as I believe a lot of people who watched Quality Road's races did. They looked at him too quickly but, didn't really see. This isn't just another talented horse. You have been looking at a superstar. When you realize it, remember I tried to tell you all.

August Song 15 Apr 2009 6:35 PM

So Draynay, just so I'm not putting words in your mouth, will you please affirm the fact that you think the people who make Thorograph and Beyer numbers are not "serious" and you know better than them and they have it wrong that IWR and QR have not run almost identical races in terms of performance?  Just want to make sure you are on record saying that so we can add it to the long list of ridiculously stupid statements you have already made.

The FOY is a "who's who" of 3 year olds?  This is LAUGHABLE, what a complete joke!  It might end up being a who's who of 3 year old SPRINTERS, but not one of these horses has (or will) do a thing over one mile, with the possible exception of Beethoven if he gets healthy.  Please get this ridiculous garbage out of here, there is not even a SINGLE horse in that race that is in the Derby.  You are calling that a "who's who"?

Yep, Jojo stunk after 2 weeks off.  What else has he done besides finish behind QR and Dunkirk and win a 7f allowance race?  Not a damn thing!  He's finished ahead of a bunch of no-name, non-Derby horses and sprinters trying to stretch out too far.

Tread 15 Apr 2009 7:00 PM

Lexington Stakes - Square Eddie

Square Eddie is known in the Doug O'Neill shedrow as the best colt he has ever laid hands on.

The colt had a shin injury that turned into a microfracture in February.

This colt is being "literally" pushed to make the Derby. He has skipped 6 weeks of workouts from 02/02/09-03/22/09.

The colt has had 4 workouts since February 2, 2009 to prepare for the Lexington.

People might think (looking from outside in), that the colt can't possible be ready for the Lexington. Well let me tell you different.

This colt has been on the Aquatred two times a week in Bradbury, Ca and is dead fit.

I have left a link for anyone who wants to visit and view footage of Square Eddie on the Aquatred:

www.youtube.com/watch

The scary part of all of this:

This colt is going to win the Lexington and head to the Kentucky Derby.

Best Regards,

Dave Johnson

Dave Johnson 15 Apr 2009 7:06 PM

As much as i hate the song and draynay they are right QR is the truth and now that the mousse is out of the K derby I am hopping on the QR bandwagon all abroad! For the rest of the haters get your popcorn ready because QR is going to crush. Please dont over look desert party though he is a very talented race horse!

anti draynay and thong song! 15 Apr 2009 7:18 PM

Do you guys ever bet on those race where you think your horse is going to pass the leader but never does thats QR the leader that just wont get passed up!

anti draynay and thong song! 15 Apr 2009 7:20 PM

I like the speed of QR or stalkers if the field is 20 deep.  It is hard to close with slower traffic in your way.  If they go less then 20, the chances get better for the closers.  I think that CC is a sleeper at big odds.

Jackman 15 Apr 2009 7:27 PM

draynay 15 Apr 2009 3:30 PM: "Friesan Fire hasn't broke 1:13"

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 5:38 PM: "Once again, Friesan Fire won his maiden race at Delaware Park by three lengths going 6f in 1:10 4/5."

draynay 15 Apr 2009 6:24 PM: "Big Red are you kidding me ? I don't care what Friesan Fire did running a 6 furlong sprint !!! Can he run faster than a 1:13 if he has to go a mile or more and the answer is NO."

My latest response: What's this, dray, bait and switch? You make a definitive unqualified statement saying FF "hasn't broke 1:13." When confronted with proof to the contrary, you say you don't care.

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 7:29 PM

GOOD NIGHT Johnson!  That's all the east needs is another HEALTHY California horse.  Square Eddie in the Lexington!  If you haven't ran a prep race on synthetics I'm passing.  Does anyone know if they're eating the stuff!  

Householder 15 Apr 2009 7:38 PM

Love CC but I can't find any speed in the race.  Based on his 2 against POTN he needs some luck.  A 47-48 1/2 he can't close enough ground.  

Householder 15 Apr 2009 7:41 PM

Deflect all you want Big Red fact is your horse FF can't run fast fractions... do me a favor check out the slllooowwww fractions he posted when he last ran a mile race...its really really slow.

AUGUST SONG what an amazing post...very very nice.  I couldn't have said it better...what more is there to say... Quality Road 2009 Kentucky Derby winner.

Draynay 15 Apr 2009 8:08 PM

TO DAVE JOHNSON: Are you THE Dave Johnson?

Meaning no disrespect to Eddie's connections, but in my fantasy stable no horse of mine would ever be rushed back off an injury as serious as a fracture, micro or not.

In any case, workouts in water are always beneficial no matter whether it's for humans or animals. It's a way to avoid the stress of working out on dry land. However, those of us in the general public can only go by what a horse does on land. Eddie's works since returning to training after his injury are:

2/2/09, a bullet 5f in :58 4/5 handily @ Hollywood Park

3/22/09, 3f in :37 2/5 breezing @ Hol, 11 of 19

3/30/09, 4f in :50 4/5 breezing @ Hol, 30 of 30

4/5/09, 6f in 1:13 breezing @ Hol, 13 of 19

4/11/09, 6f in 1:12 1/5 breezing @ Hol, 6 of 20

Those works are not scintillating but, as you say, Eddie likely is fit due to the Aquatred sessions and the five works, two at 6f. Thanks for the heads up. I'll wish the colt and his connections all the best, and wait to see what he does in the Lexington.

A side note, after the Paragallo mess it's nice to see the opposite side regarding the care of racehorses.

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 8:11 PM

It does seem like GoGo is waiting for Dunkirk---IRONIC! POTN has won the most $$, the most Gr 1's, the most two turn stakes, the most two turn races, the most races in a row....has Baffert....seems the wiseguy pick to toss....I hope Go Go leaves and his odds creep up to 12-1 fifth choice...I Want Revenge will probably be favored....Quality Road is still a question to me/I'll pass in this tough field.....Freisan Fire will be fresh/on engine and I cannot toss...I will also include Gen Quarters whom I think is peaking for The Derby! My Fab Four: IWR/POTN/FF/GQ baby!! Mabye sprinkle some Dunkirk around that for a small saver.....and DWayne's Flying Private for the stratospheric superfecta!!

Matthew W 15 Apr 2009 8:12 PM

DRAYNAY: By the way, just so you understand, since I haven't expressed my opinion about QR's chances yet. Did discuss his pedigree some weeks back, saying I like the fact that he's a grandson of Strawberry Road, whose sire was a son of one of my all-time favorite racemares, Bowl of Flowers.

No question QR's a fast colt who might be the only natural front runner in this year's Derby. His connections have a tough decision to make. Do they want QR out there winging it on the lead trying to go wire to wire, or do they hold him back and let the pace set up in moderate fractions, then try to beat all those natural closers in the stretch?

For Big Red 15 Apr 2009 8:30 PM

I WANT REVENGE WILL WIN!

He has all it will take for the Derby, the Preakness, but again we will not have a Triple Crown Winner this year.

KAB-BAK 15 Apr 2009 8:40 PM

I think people are crazy if they discount FF he is one of 3 horses I give a chance to win since there will be no suicidal pace like in 05. I think it will be out of QR, DN, and FF. FF only going 1 1/16 will not hurt him as he is bred well for the distance.

Mike 15 Apr 2009 8:41 PM

What a wonderful day my wife and I had today.  After shopping for weeks we just finally decided to go to the puppy store.  We decided to buy the cutest chubby little puppy you have ever seen.  He comes from a champion Mother and a champion Father.  He has beautiful soft hair and it shines like you won't believe.  We just brought him home and I have been out in the yard tossing the ball to him.  The weather was really nice out so we took him for a long walk. He got a little hot so I got out the hose and started to water him down and our new chubby little puppy loved it. He started biting the water as it came out, it was very cute.  My friends from next door came over and they have an adorable little schnauzer that they just bought last week.  They told us they already named their dog. They named her Daisy and Daisy would bite our dog in the tail and our dog would try to chase her but she is just to fast and our dog tried bite her back but our chubby little dog is not very fast and seems to tire easy.  Our friends asked us, "What did you name your dog?" I told them I haven't decided yet but its either Freisan Fire or I Want Revenge.

draynay 15 Apr 2009 9:16 PM

draynay I agreed with you on BB last year but you will see FF is the real deal. If he does lose out it will be to QR or DK but I think he will win.

Mike 15 Apr 2009 9:27 PM

So,Jason--My Main Man! I hear you're ditching your Wifey & Kids this year and treating some lucky fellow Posters from here to an all-expenses paid trip to the Derby?...whatta' guy I tell ya'!..You give,you give and you give.Did I mention you're the reason I got into Horse-racing...and invite Dray so you can have that Boxing match you guys mentioned a couple of weeks ago and put that smack-talking to the test.Remember you said "Dray doesn't want a piece of me" and he said it won't be a contest cuz' "his right leg is bigger than you"? Classic!  Peace!!

Slew.em.All 15 Apr 2009 9:39 PM

Dray save those losing tickets on QR--'ya can pick up the little puppie presents on the lawn with 'em! Ha--good luck, mate!

Matthew W 15 Apr 2009 9:40 PM

I don't think Freisan Fire will let anybody steal away with the race--when you have the kind of confidence Jones has it's "beat us to win" ala Hard Spun--go out with them ...a horse like Pioneerof The Nile, the way he goes past them so fast--then the way he waits on horses after he goes by--that to me is a sign of intelligence! He KNOWS what to do, then he eases back--maybe like Ferdinand, you haveta time it right but methinks when push comes to shove POTN has the fastest kick....

Matthew W 15 Apr 2009 10:02 PM

If Reagel Ransom goes to the lead they might not catch him. Then throw in the 5 best closers and there your tri and super.

capper 15 Apr 2009 10:06 PM

Crafty and Polamalu43, I couldn't be more on board with you about General Quarters.  I'll take the 20 or 30 to 1 you'll get him at and not think twice.  Watch the Sam Davis, the Bluegrass, and then look at his pedigree.  Sky Mesa was leading 2nd crop sire last year, is #1 or #2 on the general sire list at this point, and had the 1,4,5 finishers in the Bluegrass. GQ has the same damsire as Hold Me Back (Unbridled's Song).  He has won stakes on dirt and synthetic, has the right running style, seems to be fast enough, and should stay the distance.

Leave him out of the exotics at your peril.

How he only sold for $20k is beyond me.  Probably because Sky Mesa had almost been written off.

I don't know if he can beat QR, IWR or POTN, but i would favor him over Dunkirk.

And before some wise-a$$ says a former claimer can't win the Derby....I offer Charismatic.  Also, the race he was claimed from was a debut maiden at.....Churchill Downs.  He has also now raced 11 times, so should be plenty fit.

Thanks to Andrew Caulfield and Bill Oppenheim from TDN for some of the research, but to my credit I hit the Bluegrass exacta cold so I liked him before they sold me even further.  If only Join In The Dance (who is a beast...took two handlers to school him Friday before the Bluegrass and he was dragging them! No wonder he was rank) could have held third...

GQ, QR, IWR, Hold Me Back, POTN super box will be my only bet Derby day.

I have to toss Dunkirk based on the no 2yo starts, Papa Clem got crushed by FF, barely beat a horse who broke his knee and was getting caught late by a maiden winner, and Chocolate Candy is not at the elite level of this class.  As far as Larry Jones and FF, I know he did it with 8Bs last year (1 1/16 being the longest race) but this isn't last years Derby field.

jamesb 15 Apr 2009 10:49 PM

Wow!  POTN worked well today.  I've seen him up close. He is the fittest horse I have seen since Alysheba.  CC, POTN, Square Eddie, IWR, The Pamplemousse, Papa Clem...it's been a good ride this year out west.  

Householder 16 Apr 2009 2:15 AM

    Dray, so does this mean you're switching your Derby selection yet again to Daisy?  What's her pedigree?  She might just be a good breeding selection for Quality Road.

    Since we're into allegorical stories, I have one for you.  My wife & I had a dog once.  The dog had some medical problems that required attention from the vet.  After a week or 2 of treatment, the vet said the dog was fine and should experience no further issues.  My wife and I were ecstatic because we thought the world of this dog.  We told everyone what a great dog she was and they should get one just like her.  She could outrun any dog on our street.  She was a beauty.  She was as fast as lightning.  Needless to say, the vet was wrong.  The dog never quite seemed the same after the medical issue.  When we took her for walks in the park and she was playing with other dogs from other neighborhoods, she didn't seem to measure up like she did with the dogs on our street.  We still love her, but she's just not what we once thought she was.  It broke our hearts.  I'm still in denial even after I saw it with my own eyes.  I saw her run in our neighborhood and she just looked so fast.  It has to be the effects of that dang medical issue.  It can't be the fact that she's just not good enough, right?

Curlin 16 Apr 2009 2:40 AM

Quality Road, that's all you need to know.

JR won't be looking over his shoulder or waiting to pull the trigger until someone comes to him like he did in the Fla. Derby. When you see a horse burst to the front turning for home and open daylight it will be Quality Road. Winning moves in the Derby are made right there. This time it's for all the marbles and Quality Road won't be waiting around for anyone trying to save something for tomorrow.

draynot 16 Apr 2009 8:11 AM

Dray,

    You know what they say,:

"A dog usually takes after their owner".....

Just kidding, Actually thought what you said was too funny...Good one!

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 8:58 AM

Curlin,

    Sounds like maybe your dog had a Quarter Crack?, Sometimes, You think it is healed, Then it just shows up......

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 9:03 AM

Does anyone know if Edgar Prado has a mount for the Derby with Imperial Council not making it?  I am hoping that he is back on Take the Points, he knows how to ride the colt the right way.  I wasy really upset with the ride he got in the Santa Anita Derby, when POTN passed him on the backstretch he wanted to go and Solis held him back, by the time he was asked to run he was caught in traffic, he should have been right there.  I think being back on the dirt will be huge if he gets into the Derby.

phoenixky1 16 Apr 2009 9:18 AM

Prado may ride Dunkirk or POTN. It depends on who Gomez chooses.

jshandler 16 Apr 2009 9:43 AM

FYI,

   Change subject a little, IEAH Stables has tabbed Garrett Gomez as the new rider for STARDOM BOUND. Too bad for M. Smith, but when they meat up head to head down the road, he will be on Zenyatta....

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 9:53 AM

Thanks Jason, unfortunately that doesn't leave a lot of the top jockey for Take the Points if he gets in.

phoenixky1 16 Apr 2009 9:55 AM

Prado may also be on Square Eddie if he goes. Either way, he will have a mount in the Derby.

jshandler 16 Apr 2009 10:19 AM

Jason,

      I disagree, I could be wrong, But won't Edgar Prado be on Square Eddie in Derby? Because I thought his regular rider Rafael Bejarano apparently committed to Papa Clem as his Kentucky Derby horse ?

My picks...

Parade Clown (Hottest jockey, Julien Leparoux)

Pitched Perfectly(Alan Garcia)

Square Eddie(E. Prado)

My dark horse is Omniscient(Robby Albarado)

Superfecta boxed...Trifecta Boxed

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 10:29 AM

General Quarters just moved to number two on my Derby picks....Just named Four-time Churchill Downs’ riding champion Julien Leparoux as his jockey

Enough Said...

Eibar Coa is going to feel like a IDIOT when Musket Man is nowhere to be found on Derby Day...

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 12:25 PM

Greg J,

if your handicapping is based on who rides the horse you are in big trouble. It's the horse who does the running and GQ is not in the same league as QR. The best jock wins races less often the the favorites do and that's not a large percent of the time. 8 out of ten times you are going to be wrong picking by the rider. Peppy Lepeoux may be a good jock but he can't carry GQ over the line ahead of QR and others.

gw_bushwacker 16 Apr 2009 2:54 PM

GW,

  In my opinion, JL is a better jockey then EC, and if anything, that will help GQ, not hinder him, A jockey can hurt a horse more then help him, and I just think this GC is a better horse then MM, not saying he will win, I already know "Friesan Fire" will do that, General Quarters will be on the board though.....

I don't think Quality Road will even make the race, Quarter Cracks are very unpredictable....

Greg J. 16 Apr 2009 3:27 PM

Notice how most of the so-called experts across the US don't have QR on top of their Derby lists?..why?...Maybe because they're not easily swayed and awed by the #'s he's put-up @ GP with his perfect trips.We've seen plenty of these before,and had them absolutely tank in the Ky Derby.This year's crop is pretty damn good,especially the top-tier.It won't be a cakewalk for QR like some may think.His inexperience and lack of over-coming adversity will be his downfall @ Churchill's Stampede For The Roses.

Slew.em.All 16 Apr 2009 4:36 PM

dunkirk and pioneerof the nile are my 2 biggest questions going into the derby week gomez has his choice on who he wants to run and he said he will tell us on sunday and here is a hint for him i would take pioneerof the nile over dunkirk because he has more experiance and won more races and hase been proven i knoe nobody knows how well he will do on dirt and that is the major question he has to ask him self is what one he thinks will give him a shot to win the kentucky derby becasue in the past we know the jockey who have had 2 horse in the make or break your month if you make the wrong choice

MATT H. 17 Apr 2009 11:24 AM

If Summer Bird gets in with his earnings from the 3rd in the Ark. Derby he will run in the Ky. Derby... This is an improving horse who will absolutely love the mile and a quarter... If he doesnt make the Derby watch him in the Belmont and hopefully there will be a horse going for the Triple Crown so he can knock them off just like his daddy did...

Tim 17 Apr 2009 2:23 PM

Quality road is an easy winner unless Gomez rides pioneer of the nile or big drama decides too run.

steve s 17 Apr 2009 3:29 PM

dear mr. slew em.all i herd that you picked me to win that race in kentucky. i think people and you are making a big mistake. i herd about that other horse. he is way beter than me. mr. slew em i will lose. all the other horses running know it. people who bet on me are going to luse alot of money. i am tring to warn you. that other horse is to fast. maybe i can finish forth. i cant wait until this is over. i will be very enbarased. i herd people like yoursel will make me the favrite. big misteak.

 yur pal i want revenge  

i want revenge 17 Apr 2009 7:31 PM

The Robert Lewis is the big prep and POTN won like a champ!...He'll be there in last 1/16 and he has the best kick/is the best horse of this crop....if POTN wins Derby he'll get it all.....BUT that is a big if....

Matthew W 17 Apr 2009 11:13 PM

lol..u might wanna' hit that 'spell-check' button though...No worries,the Real Cali Reaper,aka IWR has no fear of a biased blessed 1-time 2-turning pony who barely beat a tired & exhausted Dunkirk.If Mediocre..err..Quality Road had trouble with that 'allowance' winner,imagine what he's up against when facing Da' Bulldogs?

QR=OF=Congaree=Bellamy Road...watch & weep!

Slew.em.All 18 Apr 2009 11:36 AM

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