Point Given got himself beat in the Derby and/or Baffert had him to cranked up.I thought for sure he was going to have a shot at the TC.

I'll say Curlin and Rags, man what a stretch duel. Second goes to Affirmed and Alydar.

I had 3...

Charismatic first, the sheer emotion, plus I had picked him way before the Derby...

Smarty getting run down by Birdstone, even though I loved Smarty (way before the Derby) I also was still a believer in Birdstone and felt if anybody was going to have anything left in the tank if Smarty didn't rate, it would be the "little brown horse in the plain wrapper." (quote by Steve Haskin for another little brown horse;-)) and so had sent FOUR people, including my BEST friend, to put a bet on Birdstone for me..all four were too embarrassed to do it!!!!! Aaaaaagh, a day that I will always remember...

Plus Rags to Riches...i knew she could do it..the first time I laid eyes on her she gave me goosebumps..like many of you feel about RA (who I love and admire)..her power and drive, that look in her eye you seldom see even in colts, loved that filly...

Afleet Alex was one couragious little horse, I'll never forget him.

I love watching the Rags-Curlin stretch duel from the close up camera angle from the infield.

My most memorable moment was the classy Mrs. Whitney apologizing for her horse, Birdstone, beating Smarty Jones.  I still get choked up watching that race.  I've never heard of an owner feeling bad for winning, but she is a class act as she proved in this year's Preakness soap opera.

I say Rags...I always yell at the TV when I get excited watching a race, you know like a chant..." Come on(fill in the blank)" over and over, and I can always hear the track announcer. And that race started no differently...as she came around the far turn I started chanting to her... "Come on Big Girl" over and over but as they came down the stretch I completely lost my mind, I was just screaming and I didn't hear Tom Durkin's call(I am actually suprised none of my neighbors called the police! For a good minute it must have sounded like I was being murdered!). I LOVED that day!!! And I wish we could clear up Rags' story. After the Belmont she had 4 months off, came back in the Gazelle (9-15-2007 at Belmont) and fractured her pastern, she was then given time off to heal and put back in training where she re-injured the same pastern and was retired. If you honestly think that her injury is connected to the Belmont then I don't know what to tell you.

My second choice is Real Quiet...of all the near misses...missing by a nose is a killer. I think that was the most heartbreaking. I have heard many jockeys say they would rather lose by a mile than a nose.

The Belmont Stakes is such a great and exciting race. I thoroughly enjoyed DA' TARA's brilliant performance in last year's race. It was great to see a son of TIZNOW win a classic.

I think my most memorable Belmont Stakes might be SPECTACULAR BID's loss. He is the only horse in the last 30 years that really deserved the "it's a forgone conclusion" (that he will win the Belmont Stakes) because he was one of the greatest of all time (Top 5, no question). Sorry BIG BROWN.

I think the great BUD DELP once said, "If I had gone to Shoemaker earlier in The Bid's career I would have a Triple Crown winner." I totally agree.

We haven't seen a better horse since 'The Bid' since 'The Bid' retired.

DA TARA WINNing the race.REASON i figured out it was a somebody has to win race. THE FIRST BELMONT I EVER sawWAS SECRETARIAT.I THOUGHT BEST HORSE WAS always going too win in stead of a horse like COMendable.had my first WINNING TICKET ON DA TARA on the big brown mess.

Colin...You are so right about MaryLou W. If this question had been about the Belmont I remember for bad reasons I would have chosen Birdstone. I was so appalled at the crowd booing them and felt so bad for MaryLou (and Zito & Prado). Here she is a pillar of the sport being booed for winning. I have never seen such a negative reaction and I have seen plenty of TCs lost at the Belmont. I sure loved Smarty though.

First - Rags. Second - Affirmed. :-D

Rags To Riches was for sure my best moment other than;  

This poll doesn't have Big Red as an option.  I would really have to go with that if it did.  :)

I went with other -- Risen Star's Belmont was not listed. While other Belmonts may have had intriguing matchups -- Alydar & Affirmed, Curlin & Rags to Riches -- watching Risen Star thunder down the stretch at Belmont gave me goose bumps to watch. It was the next best thing to watching his daddy all over again.

I remember watching Silver Charm's upset in the Belmont like it was yesterday. I hated seeing tha thorse loose. So the most memorable for me goes to that one. VERY close second goes to Rags to Riches defeating Curlin.

The entire stretch run of the 07 Belmont with RTR and Curlin was as exciting and grueling of a race as I have seen.  The "battle of the sexes" call was a great call for a great race.

I was at the belmont on june 5 2004 when Birdstone passed Smarty Jones and with 130,000 + people you could hear a bird chirping in the infield. Even the people with  winning tickets (birdstone to win) were afraid to say anything. It was a feeling i will never forget!!

So many to choose from but Affirmed/Alydar is probably it for me as was their entire Triple Crown duel. Afllet Alex as I made a lot of money on him from the time I saw him as a 2 year old at the Spa. Suffice to say, his name may have had something to do with. I was happy that Funny Cide lost to Empire Maker who was my choice that year. America loves a nice heartwarming such as his owners who travelled around in the schoolbus but much like "Jon and Kate plus 8", they became too sweet and cloying for me. Funny Cide being a gelding unfortunately cannot give us an infidelity angle to speculate on.

Then again as mentioned last week, I was happy Big Brown lost because I can't stand any or all of his connections.

Here's hoping that Mine That Bird and whomever else is entered puts on a show similar to the Preakness last Saturday.

big brown choking last year. To get beat by an entire field of allowance class horses and a maiden when you are going for the triple crown was stunning. Not exactly what people were hoping for and that makes it extremely memorable.

Losses like Smarty and Real Quiet stick out as being painfully memoriable, but Rags probably takes the cake for sheer excitement.

Rags to Riches slender lead and then win over Curlin was one of the most thrilling Belmont's that I have ever seen, and I've seen many.  I also placed one $200 win bet on her, and it paid off. I have a photo from Bloodhorse framed on my office wall of the stretch duel.  A few years earlier I played Birdstone as a $50 win over Smarty Jones, because we had won considerable money on his father, Grindstone.  Again, I was rewarded, but was afraid to cash my ticket as the "Philly" crowd who supported him, who were stunned when Smarty lost, would have given me some trouble! Last but not least, the heart-felt Charismatic Belmont, with Antley cradling his leg at the finish. He still came in Third! And his son, Sun King, was great, too.

Affirmed and Alydar was the greatest of all time, but of course, it's the last 30 years you're looking at. I was there for Smarty's loss (almost as crushing as watching Alydar lose to Affirmed in those 3 races) and to see Rags storm home a winner. For me, it's her performance out of those races. That was one of the most exciting TC series I recall watching where a TC wasn't on the line. Each of the 3 winners and Hard Spun gave exciting performances.

I been to 23 of the last 30. 58 TC races in total.  I've seen the last 11 Belmonts when a horse had a shot at the TC and loses each time.  I'd have to say 1998, becuase while standing on the rail, I wasn't sure won the race and RQuiet was up by ~5 with 1/16 to go.  Then Bid, just becuase my father lost a fortune, he was the greatest horse I've seen run, and it was my first Belmont

   2004 Belmont!!!, Hands Down,  I will NEVER forget that day.  Smarty was and is one of my all time favorites. I was 100 percent sure he would take the Triple Crown that day, No doubt what so ever, lol. With 5F's to go, I thought it was in the bag, Smarty was with Eddington and Rock Hard Ten, I knew they would fade hard and Smarty would win easily....Then, out of know where, This number 4, This 36-1 longshot, Birdstone???,Who The hell is that???,  Was creeping up, I was like, Oh No, Who is THAT?, Then when Durkin said, "Birdstone is going to make Smarty earn it today", I was screaming at Durkin and my TV, lol, Then when he passed him, I honestly thought I was going to pass out!, lol, I was completely Shocked and Heart broken, Still am and will be forever, I honestly don't think I have gotten over it yet!!!

    Looking back, Birdstone, Yes, Birdstone Deserved it(That is the first time I have ever spoken those words, lol)...

     Jason, Thanks for bringing up this Horrible Memory, I have to go back into therapy(Just Kidding)...

It has to be Afleet Alex for me he's my all time favorite american horse.He was small but he had a heart of a lion.

Even though it was heartbreaking for me, I'd have to say Smarty's race was a memorable one.  My mom and I were on our way to England that day, and we raced around Heathrow trying to find out who won, but didn't end up finding anything til we got to our hotel room.  And there scrolling across the bottom of the tv screen was "American racehorse Smary Jones loses the Belmont Stakes by one length"  and my mom and I were so sad.  But what a great horse he was...way to go anyway Smarty!  

Rags and Curlin.

Thank you for excluding Secretariat's Belmont. Impressive as his margin was, the horse is highly overrated.

My vote is for Curlin vs. Rags To Riches.  This race solidified to me that Curlin was the best horse in my eyes, ever.  Take a look at the Past Peformance for Curlin after the Belmont, in the notes you will see the word "yielded 1/16".  There is a beautiful water color available of this stretch duel, it is properly named "Ladies First".  Even as a very big Curlin fan, I was not upset at a fresh Rags To Riches being entered after skipping the Derby and Preakness, and lining up against three other horses that had been wearing each other out.

Jason I was just like you back in 1979 (except taller) yelling at the TV... urging Spectacular Bid to find another gear in the Belmont.

I remember the race like it was yesterday and simply could not believe that MY Spectacular Bid had lost, I was crushed.  I still have my Spectacular Bid collection and after that race my parents and I both knew I was a fan for life. 4 months earlier I had saved my money for a year to buy the very best Red Schwinn 10 speed bike money could buy.  2 weeks after buying the bike it was stolen and felt terrible.  But no where near as bad as I felt watching my favorite horse lose.  If I had a choice to get my beautiful bike back or a win for the Bid I would have taken the win for the Bid 10 times over.  My most memorable Belmont 1979 the Bid losing... it still bothers me today.

1st - Afleet Alex

2nd - Rags to Riches

Sarava beats Medaglia d'Oro as the longest shot on the board.

The '73 Belmont with Secretariat definitely would have been the overwhelming victor in the poll.  I voted for the Rag to Riches '07 Belmont because I just could not believe how much heart and guts both her and Curlin showed.  I knew she would win when I looked at the workouts and Rags to Riches had some that were faster or leastwise equal to Curlin's.  When I saw both of them on the track,  Rags was wider and bigger than Curlin.  That gave me goosebumps.  One of my favorites memories was Point Given's TC run.  It wasn't so much the races (I loved Point Given)as the fact that one morning it was reported that Point Given's antics, he reared and almost went over, caused Bob Baffert to spill his precious Starbucks drink!  From what I heard Bob Baffert never let anything get between him and his morning Starbucks habit.

Man I'm losing my memory Jason. I think I meant Real Quiet not Point Given. Correct me okay?

Hey Jason... did Catherine just call Secretariat overrated ? Lol... man I love this blog ! Go with your bad self Catherine... you go girl.

I would have to say Charismatic's Belmont would be up there for me, as I was rooting for him after the Derby (didn't really pick a horse that day but did at the end).  Still love that horse to this day and I will always wait for the day he comes back home from Japan...

Another one would Silver Charm just for the fact that he raced as 4 yr old and, if I'm correct, 5 yr old.  Best older horse there ever was and proving very good in the breeding shed--at least before they shipped him off to Japan.

Give up that argument up Jason, about Point Given deserving to win the triple Crown.  There was no way that Point Given could have upstaged Monarchos in Kentucky Derby 2001.  PG had no excuse unless Gary Stevens admits that he misjudged the pace of the race.  He got beaten by two factors: 1) being too close to those record fractions set by Songandaprayer, Balto Star, Millenium Wind, Keats and Congaree and 2)An invincible Monarchos on the day (improving on his impressive Florida Derby prep victory).

No one can take away PG's outstanding Preakness and Belmont performances but it is disengeuous to try to take anything away from the most brilliant winner of the Derby since Secretariat, Monarchos.  He didn't do much after the Derby due to injury but he was certainly no flash-in-the-pan.  Give respect where it is due without dissing another implicitly or explicitly.

The 2004 Belmont was one of the worst days of my life. I still have to put myself through the pain of watching it on youtube once in a while to see if Smarty can hold him off, haha! Like others have said above, I have never heard 120 thousand people go silent at once. Please on the Point Given.

Oh this isn't for the current subject but Dray, what if Quality Road someday meets up with Rachel?? Love to get your thoughts on that!

I feel real old knowing Alydar & Affirmed are no longer on the list... over 30 years! 1978, 1973 and 1976 were all pretty good, but within the last 30...1980 was pretty good!

Ive been to every Belmont for the past 10 years.

The most memorable, BY FAR, is the Smarty Jones Belmont. 120,000+ people, ridiculous TV audience...its a shame how we all seem to forget how big that was. Nothing may compare in my lifetime and I mean that. It's impossible to describe the wall of noise that engulfed the track when he hit the stretch...the deafening silence of Birdstone's move...and the heart Smarty showed in actually coming back with nothing in the tank.

The most memorable moment in a good way is Afleet Alex going by Giacomo "like he was standing still!"

My favorite Belmont is Rags vs. Curlin! Second would be Afleet Alex and Third is Birdstone vs. Smarty Jones!

I'll never be able to forget watching Rags stubble out of the gate then come on hard in the stretch to have win gutsy battle with Curlin.

Caveat's win against Slew The Gold was a classic.  Angel tried to tighten up the rail and lure Lafitte into a trap.  Lafitte dove into the hole anyway and emerged with a new coat of paint on his left side.  Won anyway.  Great drama.

Id also like to add i had $20 on Birdstone because he was 81-1 when I checked the odds before the 3rd race. So I won a ton of money...never been so embarrassed...I want to hide under my seat. I'll tell you this truthfully, I would have traded the ticket for Smarty to win.

My dad was the only one of us happy because it meant I was paying for dinner.

Alex was my man, never could figure out why they didn't just let Funny run, loved Rags taking Curlin down, couldn't believe Birdstone beat Smarty, loved seeing Da Tara win, but it broke my heart see Charasmatic with Chris holding his leg up. So glad he lived on, not so Chris.

This was really a tough one.  I was there when Smarty couldn't quite make it.  130,000 people were just thunderstruck.  But we all still love him and he only lost the Triple Crown, not his respect.  So I have to choose Big Brown.  I love that horse.  He stirred my soul and still does.  The video of him at 3 Chimneys that is here on Bloodhorse showed off his charisma to perfection.  What makes that race the most memorable to me is that it makes me completely frustrated and angry.  Smarty didn't win but he got to run his race.  Big Brown was pulled up and not allowed to finish so we'll never know what he could've would've should've done.  I am still upset over the wrong done to this beautiful, talented colt and the disrespect heaped on him for something he had no control over.  He wanted to run, he was forceably stopped and now we'll never know.  The whole thing left an empty, dissatisfied, nasty taste in my mouth that just won't go away.

On another note, if Secretariat is overrated, exactly what does a horse have to do to prove he has extraordinary talent?

TO CATHARINE: Your 20 May 2009 3:17pm post is nuts. Off-the-scale nuts. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, but so am I to mine.

My most memorable was the heartbreak of Real Quiet....SO CLOSE!!!!  

I literally laugh out loud when I read things like Secretariat is overrated-much less "highly overrated"!!!  No one has even been close to ecliplsing his Belmont track record.  Totally unbeleiveable that anyone could believe him to be overated!!!  He won it in 2:24.....No other horse has even been within 2:25 at the mile and a half distance....AP Indy and Easy Goer each rolled in at 2:26....that is the closest anyone has come to Secretariats mark.  Add to the fact that he was able to win the Triple Crown...a feat only 11 horses have accomplished since Sir Barton in 1919....won 16 of his 21 races-3 second, 1 third....the only other race he lost was his first when he was pinched off at the start and ended up 4th.

You may not be his biggest fan, but I would love to hear the reasons any one could think him overated.

The 1978 Belmont was a better race than the 1973 Belmont. Of course, I'm an Alydar fan. I had picked Easy Goer-Sunday Silence, then I saw Victory Gallop (I was so upset Real Quiet was going to win I turned off the TV & didn't know that Victory Gallop had won until the next morning), and then I saw Rags to Riches. I had to pick her race with Curlin. I can't tell you how many times I have watched that tape. Rachel Alexandra has nothing on Rags!

This isn't the topic, but Rags, Rachel, and Eight Belles would have made quite a broodmare band. I just wish Eight Belles could have enjoyed a long happy retirement.

The closest and for Baffert the most heartbreaking was V gallop catching Real Q in a photo.Fantastic close by Gallop he was so far behind at the top of the stretch and was flying as Real Q was running on fumes, that was the most exciting  finish I ever saw in the Belmont.Secretariat's performance will never be matched to bad for Sham who chased him in all 3 triple crown races only to finish second.

Anyone who thinks Secretariat was overrated has to be nuts. Why do you think people can't stop talking about him after 36 years greatness only comes but once in a lifetime and he was it for me and alot more as you always see on every poll. There were alot of good ones in their times and everyone to their own.Big Red will always be in everyones heart and mind forever.

Ah, man! I've only been actively watching racing since '02. I was drawn in by the fact that I tuned in to the Derby right before it. Of course, I had to choose a horse to cheer for! Who did I pick but the big black one nobody was paying much attention to. The big black one who still brings tears to my eyes when I hear the "War Emblem is STILL THERE! War Emblem, and he's pulling away -- he's got another GEAR!" when I watch the 02 Derby again once every few months. ;) Most memorable is his loss -- I knew nothing about racing or touchy colts then. All I knew was my big black colt was going to blow them away. I knew it. Down to my toes and with every hair on my head, I KNEW War Emblem was going to EAT those horses and come out triumphant. And...well. I still can't watch the Belmont without feeling like somebody's violated me. ;) Aaagh.

Still. The next two years? My horses? They pulled a Sarava. Well. Not exactly, as they weren't the crazy longshots. Definitely not Empire Maker. Ah, Empire Maker! That was my baby. God, he's a handsome fellow. And I picked Birdstone, he was my horse that year...I've never shouted so much in my life! Everybody was rabid for Smarty -- who, I will now admit was an AMAZING horse -- but oh! Was I proud of my boy Birdstone! Gaaah. That was so incredibly exciting. Man, though, I didn't know who to root for in the Belmont! Hard Spun was my '07 horse, though I was always sweet on big boy Curlin to a certain degree. But my God! Rags, she was brilliant that day. She was...wow. What a filly. What a filly!

Ummm...sorry Catherine. Secretariat is highly overrated? You obviously know nothing about horse racing, and if you do, you should be ashamed for writing such a ridiculous thing! The triple crown is the most difficult feat in racing...and he crushed all three. No horse has strung together such devastating performances in succession. He still holds the records after all these years. If that doesn't impress you I dont know what does.

Aside from Secretariat's Belmont, I would say Point Given's was the most satisfying Belmont beause he was an absolute monster and showed it that day.

Without a doubt, the most memorable for me is the '98 battle between Real Quiet and Victory Gallop. Tom Durkin's outstanding call of the race made the race even more unforgettable. Check out the race on youtube for Durkin's great call.

Some people forget that Real Quiet impeded Victory Gallop twice down the stretch. Victory Gallop had a full head of steam and was clearly the better horse that day. The stewards would have had no choice but to take down Real Quiet had he finished in front. Imagine the bedlam!

I would have picked Risen Star, but I have never felt so much emotion all at once as I did on the day Smarty Jones was beaten in the Belmont. I still get choked up. He was a game little horse.

#1:  Rags & Curlin

#2:  Charismatic & Chris Antley

To Catherine: Wow. That's all I can say. Secretariat was THE greatest, the most dominating and most talented horse to ever win the Belmont. His display was a truly once in a lifetime performance. If you have any doubts about his talent you'd better go to the history books and do some studying. "Big Red" was the truly a "tremendous machine."

I'm with the author-Point Given should have won the TC. I couldn't wait until I had a chance to see him in Kentucky. What I don't understand, is why he is not replicating himself with winning off-spring (other than his two millionaires).

Toss Up between-

Secretariat for best single performance

Affirmed/Alydar for best duet

Seatle Slew for being trained the best of all (by Mr. Bill Turner)

I guess being older these are the three that will always be with me.

I have enjoyed many other Belmonts, but when the "Crown" is won, that alone makes it that special race. Other then that, on those other years, the Belmont is just another Preakness or Derby unto itself. When it is the Crown, the Preakness & Derby join,  to give the Belmont that special greatness of the three.  

I voted for Rags. I noticed in some of the comments left, that I am not the only person who gets a bit excited. I had seen Curlin at Oaklawn, I was screaming for him then for Rags. I was quite manic. My husband and daughter, just backed away. I think they may have considered dialing 911. Thankfully we live very far out in the country, so no neighbors were startled, except perhaps the bull in the neighboring pasture, he did seem a bit unsettled. That was not the first time I have had what my daughter calls "an episode", and it won't be the last. Watching this year's Preakness, OMG, I could hardly breathe, had to breathe into paper bag. LOL

As exciting as these were, let me say this, NOTHING tops seeing your first Triple Crown Champion, and Secretariat did it with style! Which is not to say that in 77 and 78 I was anywhere near calm.

You did not go back far enough.  It really had to be Affirmed/Alydar but if I must pick the later dates it has to be THE BiD. He was like non stoppable in my eyes and many more fans.  Goes to show that the Belmont can stop any great horse at any time.

For me, it was a hard choice between Real Quiet's upset and Smarty Jones' upset, but I had to go with Smarty since that one I was actually alive for. I'll never forget the call of, "It's been 26 years, he's just one furlong away--Birdstone wins". It was just an absolute heartbreak.

I also think Spectacular Bid could easily have been our TC winner if things had gone his way the morning of the Belmont.

Rags to Riches against Curlin. I can still remember the stretch dual like it was yesterday and hollering for Rags to beat him. What excitement that was. Second would be Charismatic when Chris Antely jumped off him in the stretch and held up his front leg. Had it not been for Chris's quick thinking Charismatic may not have survived.

Secretariat was an incredible horse, deserving a spot in the top horses of the 20th Century for sure. However, many horses had a better race record than Secretariat. Man O' War was 20 for 21, and set 8 records. Before he was hurt, Citation was 27 for 29, with 4 time records. Swaps had set more world records than any other horse-5. Round Table was 43 for 66, and set 15 track records in his life. Colin was undefeated in 15 starts and had 4 records. Spectacular Bid was 26 for 30 and had 9 track records. Dr. Fager was 18 for 22 and set 5 records. Native Dancer only had one record, but was 21 for 22. Any of these horses have as good or better a career than Secretariat. As for the Belmont, I can't decide which one is best to me.

I will never forget the roar of the crowd and the utter disbelief of the 1997 Belmont Stakes!!!!

Where is the All of the Above button?  So hard to choose!

Yeah, I'll tell you why Secretariat is "highly overrated"--

it's all those stupid World, Track, and Course Records; beating nobodies, like Riva Ridge, Forego, Couger II, Key To The Mint, Sham, Kennedy Road, etc. and all by daylight--lots of it.

Oh, gosh, he lost to Onion! Never mind that he beat him by 25 the next time they met, or that he didn't get another shot at Angle Light; that would have been too funny.

And that dumb jockey of his just sitting there on him, doing nothing; friggin guy didn't even know he was s'posed to whip the horse to urge him on, sheesh!

Those are just a few of the reasons that glorified trail horse is "highly overrated."  

Bone head!

You can guess by my display name, but I voted Smarty Jones because he is my favorite horse of my lifetime. Him losing to Birdstone was devastating. I know the call by heart, and ever since that day I have hated Birdstone, which means I didn't really like it when Mine That Bird won the Derby, but surprisingly, I've come to like evil Birdstone's son, the little horse in a plain brown wrapper.

The best was Rags to Riches knocking the boys for a loop!!!!

I had always wanted a filly to win one of the classics and I was following Rags for a long time knowing yes knowing she could do it and lo and behold she did@!!!!!!!!!!

Beautiful Belmont!!!!!!!!

Special mention to Touch Gold. If there was ever a sure thing winning the Blemont at Elmont he was the one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I knew he would kick gluteus maximus~!!!!!!!!!!!!

i would have to vote for the smarty jones belmont I haveenjoyed reading about smarty's babies also.someone had meantioned the ultimate broodmare band with 8belles and rags to riches. I have to include ruffians last run even though it wasn't a belmont you have to wonder what could she have done.also all of big reds races i will never forget watching him win that last race and just crying for joy .

Risen Star's Belmont was a thing of beauty.  He romped home just like his daddy and in doping so had the 2nd fastest Belmont ever (does that time still stand?)  He was a great horse and if not for traffic issues in the Derby I think he would have been a triple crown winner.

On this list I chose Sunday Silence and Easy Goer since the question was most memorable. What a race! I wanted Sunday Silence. But for me the biggest disappointment on the list was Spectacular Bid.  I really loved that horse!  The win by Rags was also a thrill and the loss by Silver Charm another big let down.

Anyone who has the audacity to say that 'Big Red' is "overrated" obviously knows zero about horseracing. I have just one thing to say... 2:24. It will never be equalled nonetheless beaten. Period. Same thing I tell Draynay all the time, go read a history book idiot. Or even easier; go to youtube and watch greatness. Horses don't run like that anymore.

Let me pick myself up off the floor. SECRETARIAT is "highly overrated"? Whew! SECRETARIAT and SPECTACULAR BID might be the 1st and 2nd best horses...ever.

Nobody is talking about Woody Stephens winning five Belmont's in a row from 1982-86. Starting with Conquistador Cielo in '82, Caveat in '83, Swale in '84 (those first three ridden by the great Laffit Pincay Jr.) followed by Creme Fraiche (Eddie Maple) in '85. and the final one with Danzig Connection (Chris McCarron) in '86. That was a heck of a run. The Woodman owned the Belmont Stakes for those 5 years.

hansel over strike the gold

Kind of funny how you picked 1979 as the cut off point. It left out Affirmed and Alydar. I can't think really of anything that was more inspiring except the blazing run of Secretariat.

Jason I am not sure RA will run in the  Belmont but if she does and wins she will have won the Filly Triple Crown. Beating every top filly and then all the best colts would make her accomplishment the first in racing history and also even more difficult then the regular Triple Crown. Secretariat won the Triple Crown but he did not beat the best fillies of the day at that time.  Who knows if he would have.  There is no doubt with RA.  I think the Filly Triple Crown is even more rare and would be even a bigger story.

Mine was 2004 with Smarty Jones losing to Birdstone.  When I saw Smarty win the Rebel, I fell in love with that horse.  I watched him go undefeated through the Preakness.  I watched his Derby win and saw Mr. Chapman having to sit down and catch his breath.  My father had the same disease and had to do the same thing. It touched me.  Smarty's connections were wonderful.  His owners and trainer were such nice people and Smarty was just such a fabulous horse.  I had not been so sure of a horse since Sunday Silence and I just knew he would win the TC.  I watched Birdstone beat him by 1/2 length?  I can't remember as I turned off the TV and couldn't watch the rest.  I was devastated.

I was so upset he didn't win.  He was so popular and it felt like the entire nation was behind him.  Smarty's rise came right after Seabiscuit was out and it caught people's interest and that little Smarty Jones was breathtaking to watch.  I still love him dearly and will go to see him one day but I still cannot watch the race to this day.  Silly, isn't it?

2007 Rags to Riches. After watching the race at home I was so happy I couldn't stop clapping.

I love Rags2Riches and Curlin but also,would have voted for Affirmed and Alydar for the best, but Rags ( the filly made history )

Most Memorable - Charismatic '99

My 1st time attending the Belmont Stakes.  I just had to see my favorite jockey, Chris Antley, attempt to win a Triple Crown.  My heart broke over Charismatic's injury but I certainly don't regret making the trip.  Something told me to go.  Glad to see there are other Charismatic fans out there.  I miss him and Chris immensely.

Favorite - Rags to Riches '07

She wasn't your typical female thoroughbred, big & nasty but a great runner.  I don't care how fresh or road-weary Curlin was.  She was the best that day.

I agree with MRO wondering about Rags, Rachel and Eight Belles as broodmares.  I'd add Ruffian to the list.

Rags to Riches dominated Curlin. Rags deserved it, she worked hard and hard work pays off. That filly has alot of heart!! Any one can see that. Rags' filly is the spitting image and will be like her mother. Can wait for 3-4 years to watch her make the same daring task of taking on the colts!!

My most memorable Belmont was the one that I attended live, in 1981, when Pleasant Colony was beaten by Coastal and Highland Blade to be denied the Triple Crown.

Three things stand out in my memory from that day...first one was watching a visibly irate Johnny Campo trying to shoo reporters and press and photographers out of the way as Pleasant Colony made his way into the saddling enclosure...the stress level was overwhelming, the mob of press had upset both the horse and trainer...it was a bad sign.....next remembrance is being right at the starting gate position in the upper grandstand, and watching Pleasant Colony balk when being the last to load in the gate...the crowd was roaring, and I was watching this horse come unglued -- I knew then that he was not going to make it that day....and my third remembrance is watching a washed-out and drained Pleasant Colony, a horse with tons of ability basically run close but never threaten the winner -- he appeared to be on auto-pilot, but he was not going to go any faster either...he was spent...and to this day, I think the walk from barn to saddling enclosure, with the mob surrounding him, did him in.  

I'm with you Point Given was the most physically imposing horse since... we all know.  Birstone really got me though.  Smarty was 2-2 in TC and was undefeated leading by quite a few.  Tough to exclude the filly though in 07'! Mrs. Whitney was classy as usual.

Hey, Catherine, have you EVER seen a horse go 5 wide in the first turn & finish in front? Has ANY horse ever set records, includig a WOrld record in every leg of the triple crown? No, honey, ONLY Secretariat. And the only horses that even come close are Man'O'War, Ruffian, and Spectacular Bid. Go do some reading!

Smarty Jones. It's comforting to read that so many other people experienced the overwhelming sadness of that moment, and that the emotion continues today. I have tried to discern just what it is about Smarty that has affected me so deeply, from the first time I saw him. Perhaps it's something that's not meant to be put into words, something spiritual and sustaining in its own special way. That awful day. I will never forget. Thannks everyone, for letting me know I am not alone.  

I pretty much mirror FrankJ and TerriV. I was waiting to get recertified as an EMT when the instructor blurted out "Smarty got beat!" I got my recert but it was all I could do to concentrate. Big Brown is so beautiful and he was totally robbed of his race. No matter what the outcome he should have been allowed to run. I lost a lot of respect for Kent D. that day.

Catherine look what you have done... you have upset the keepers of the throne... the "protectors" are out to get you.  How dare you recognize that Secretariat lost several times at 3 and never raced at 4.  Never mind that he faced very small fields and one of the weakest crop of 3 year old horses in history.  The ONLY thing they hang their hat on is Sham and Sham was no world beater and did not race past Belmont....God for bid Catherine!

My all-time call was Victory Gallop beating Real Quiet by a nose.  

I actually picked him to win the Belmont 5 weeks earlier, the night before the Derby and mostly based on his breeding.   Now I did underestimate Real Quiets breeding and did kinda hate seeing him miss the Crown, but I still had the winner.

Also loved seeing Touch Gold winning the Belmont too.   Again...hated seeing Silver Charm miss his Crown also, but knew that nobody got to see the real Touch Gold in the Preakness because he so badly stumbled at the start actually hitting his face on the dirt and then fighting back to still finish 4th I believe.

So I knew that everyone else would finally get to see the real Touch Gold in the Belmont.  

Secretariat overrated?

There have been two events in my lifetime that have convinced me of the existence of a supernatural power: the safe return home of Apollo 13 and Secretariat's Belmont Stakes. If you add up all of the human efforts that went into these two endeavors, they fall short of explaining the outcome in both cases.  

Draynay, you irrepressible troll,

Sham is amongst the least of Secretariat's victims: four Eclipse Champions, two HOY (dirt and turf), and a couple of Hall of Famers are in there, as well.

Three of his records still stand, after 36 year and, by the way, Secretariat faced twice as many horses as Man O War, and from a much larger class crop.

Neither Man O War nor Spectacular Bid beat any fillies or mares, either--perhaps they couldn't; sadly we'll never know. The shame of it.

I've read quite a few of your posts, in my brief time on The Bloodhorse Blogs, though I've lurked on this site for about five years, and you truly are the very definition of a troll.

Now, back to your hole, troll--the troll alarm has been armed!

Well, the Birdstone Belmont would probably be my 2nd choice.  I picked him the Derby.  Picked his daddy.  Loved his grandaddy.  Didn't get on the Smarty bandwagon until the Preakness and nearly bought a plane ticket to NYC after that as I was convinced.  Mrs. Whitney was the most gracious winner that day.  True class.

But yes, the Rags to Riches over Curlin was phenominal.  Never mind the filly angle.  Flat out the best stretch dual in a major race in "forever."  Yes, I wanted to see the history - but someone has already said - the look in her eyes.  My husband called it the crazy eye.  I knew it - "the look of eagles."  

Point blank, they hooked up and traded leads until one flinched - and it wasn't her.  And Curlin didn't bounce right back after that either.  It was as if her raison d'etre was to win that race that day.  I remember jumping up off the couch and screaming at the TV, with about an eighth to go yet - "Just get to the finish line dammit!"  Whoever it was that said she was surprised the neighbors didn't call the cops, I'm with you.  That was a race.  Two atheletes looking each other in the eye all the way.  Still gives me chills and tears me up.

Ok, I know we are speaking of just the most recent Belmonts, but still, the most memorable one for me was 50 years ago...when Sword Dancer won . It was the race which instilled my love of the sport,even though there was tragedy in that race( Black Hills). I was a child of 12 who had already been fascinated by Thoroughbred racing, but that was the day it all came together for me. By the way, RA is a descendant of that feisty,heartful little horse, Sword Dancer. And, Steve, why isn't there a bio of him in Racing Legends?

Rags to Riches becoming the first filly to win the Belmont in over a hundred years and defeating a future two-time horse of the year in Curlin was the Best!  Plus I was there and got to see history made in person!! (-: d

Spectacular Bid did beat a filly-the four-year-old Glorious Song, one of the only horses to test him in his four-year-old year. Citation beat more champions than Secretariat did. These are Armed, Bewitch, Coaltown, Phalanx, Delegate, Conniver, and First Flight, if you only count before his injury.

A.P. Indy - 1992 Belmont

Was at the Derby that year and heard he was scratched on the way to the track.

Fell back in the Belmont and came on again to win going away.

StardustyRose - I'll take $1400+ profit for less than 2 minutes "work" any race day of the year ; )

The most memorable Belmont was Secretariat winning in tne unbelievable time 0f 2.24 and the rest nowhere.It was the greatest performance by a racehorse I have ever seen.

Benjamin !!! How are you? Welcome to the forum.  I am glad you're no longer "lurking" and decided to join us.  I lost you at Derby...lol... actually I lost several of you.

Look Secretariat was a great horse and we all know that but to rank the horse 2nd all time makes the horse OVERRATED.  To place the horse above Kelso, Bid or Citation is just plain silly.  We all know about the races Secretariat won why don't you talk about the races he lost. Go fly a kite.  Oops... sorry based on your past that may not be a good idea :)

To me, every Belmont is special--it truly is the "test of a champion"--especially for the horses who contest all 3 legs of the Triple Crown.  I picked Charismatic--because from the first time I saw him, he reminded me of his grandaddy (great-grandaddy?) Secretariat.  I just loved his run at the Triple and thought he and Chris Antley were such a great team and a great story for racing.  I would have to say Rags and Curlin' would be second because I am a sucker for a tough stretch duel between 2 great competitors where it all comes down to who has the heart to stick their nose on that wire first!!!

Since we don't get to count Affirmed/Alydar and the cutest jockey in the world (I was 14!)then it has to be Rags to Riches.  The Slew line lives....Family matters don't you know!

although not a particularly dramatic race how about conquistador cielo winning the met mile and then 4 days later wiring the belmont which started five belmonts in a row for woody

I always love watching the Belmont!My favorite Belmont is the 2007 edition - the Rags to Riches/ Curlin stretch duel- nose to nose! I love both of those horses - but who can forget "It's going to be a filly in the Belmont!" A classic race...

TO Ben Franklin: Your 20 May 2009 6:23pm post was wonderful. Great way to put it all. :)

Not to be a know-it-all or anything, but have to fix one tiny thing. Secretariat did beat Angle Light in the Kentucky Derby.

1. Secretariat

2. Rags To Riches

3. Smarty Jones (broke my heart and I have never recovered)

Mine is the 79 Belmont. I fell in love with horse racing with the bid. When he won the derby and the preakness I thought he would never lose. Then when he lost I could not understand since he was so dominant. Even though he lost he is the one who got me to love this sport. I was nine at the time

My most memorable Belmont since 1979 was in 1988, the race with Secretariat's son Risen Star and the filly Winning Colors.  

Winning Colors was out front and running easy down the backstretch.  I thought she was going to wire it like she did in the Derby.  But then Risen Star pulled even and started passing her after the 3/4 mile mark, about the same point that Secretariat began drawing away from Sham.  It gave me the same chills as when I saw Secretariat's race because you tell Risen Star was getting ready to open up.  

In the stretch Risen Star was flying and the caller yelled something like "he looks just like his daddy".  Final time was the fastest since "his daddy" and also the widest margin of victory since dad.    

I highly recommend that the Secretariat fans on here watch Risen Star's Belmont on youtube (if you haven't already seen it).      

SECRETARIAT should be faulted for losing? Why? He ran 21 times and finished first 17 times (disqualified once). That's only four losses. He lost his first race, as many horses do. He was an uninspired 3rd in the Wood Memorial. He finished 2nd to ONION at Saratoga. He lost to PROVE OUT in the Woodward. So, he lost 3 times once he really got going as a racehorse (I'm forgiving the first start).

If you want to get hung up on those 3 losses, that's fine with me. But you're going to miss all that he did in those other 17 races. He finished first in all his races as a 2 year old (after that debut). As a 3 year old you might have heard that he won the Gotham Stakes in very fast time. Then he won the Kentucky Derby, running the fastest time in the history of the race, while defeating the brilliant FOREGO and SHAM (Santa Anita Derby winner who beat LINDA'S CHIEF and ANCIENT TITLE in 1:47 for 9 furlongs). Then he ran a phenomenal Preakness, in record time, with a sweeping first-turn run that was astounding to witness. Oh, and in case you haven't heard, he ran the greatest race by a thoroughbred in the Belmont Stakes, "moving like a tremendous machine," in 2:24 for 12 furlongs.

Three weeks after the Belmont he was back, at Arlington, winning by 9 lengths. Today's horses need about 12-24 weeks to "recover" from the Belmont...even the really slow ones. Then came the loss to ONION...whoop dee doo.

Then came the Marlboro Cup, featuring one of the greatest fields ever assembled (5 champions: SECRETARIAT, RIVA RIDGE, COUGAR II, KENNEDY ROAD and KEY TO THE MINT) which he won in 1:45-2/5, which, in case you may not know, is extremely fast time. Then came the game 2nd to PROVE OUT...it wasn't his day...oh well.

Then came two brilliant races on the turf against many of the best turf horses in the nation (besides COUGAR II).

I don't see much to criticize and I don't see what's not to love.

Sorry to interupt, but I want to  address a few comments from the previous thread.

barb and Emily:

No, I did not mean that to win a Triple Crown the horse has to have the same rider.  I meant that for a jockey or trainer to win the Triple Crown, they must ride or train the same horse in all 3 races, the horse that wins all 3 races.

I can see how you read it another way. It didnt come out like I had wanted it to.

Soldier Course:

Perhaps I was being too cynical as it concerns people's loyalties to their favorite horses.  I know many on this blog deeply love these horses and never forget them.  As my high school graduation gift, my father and I drove from California to Louisville and Lexington to see the thoroughbred capitol of America.  I know I am not alone here in my love for these magnificent animals.  I was really speaking to the general public. Unfortunately, there are not alot more people like those we interact with here on this blog.  By the time Funny Cide was 6, that committed base of fans had shrunk to the hard core, folks like us on this blog.  In most likelihood, by next May even if Mine That Bird is still running, the attention of the general public and even those who casually follow the sport will be on the new 3 year old crop and the upcoming Triple Crown.  Most on this blog are likely to still be quite interested in Bird if he is running, but he will almost certainly not receive the same level of attention on the blog as he is now.  And in the larger picture, we here on this blog are a very small group; the majority of people are probably not going to be aware of anything Mine That Bird is doing at age 4.  Of course I hope that this will not be the case, and that over the next year Mine That Bird is able to create a massive fan base, and draw many  new fans interested in not only the Triple Crown, but in all racing.  However, I will not be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

DRAYNAY: You wrote, "We all know about the races Secretariat won why don't you talk about the races he lost."

OK. When it comes to you, it'll be like talking to a brick wall, but here goes.

A red colt wearing white and blue silks, Secretariat made his debut on July 4, 1972. He finished 4th, the only time in he would finish off the board. The official DRF chart reads as follows: "Secretariat impeded after the start, lacked room between horses racing into the turn, ducked to the inside after getting through into the stretch and finished full of run along the rail." All of that in a 5 1/2 furlong baby race.

Secretariat never lost again at two, although he was DQ'd in the Champagne and placed second. He was named 1972's champion two-year-old and Horse of the Year, the first two-year-old to be so honored in the Eclipse awards era, and one of less than a handful ever.

At three, Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial in his third start. Lucien Laurin said the red colt had an abscess in his mouth, making the bit a painful thing. Lucien couldn't work Red the way he planned before the Wood.

At Saratoga, Secretariat lost the Whitney. He had a virus and was running a fever. He never should have been entered in the race. It was one of two mistakes his connections made that year while trying to please as many people as possible who wanted to see the great horse run.

Secretariat came back on Sept. 15 to win the Marlboro Cup over one of the most accomplished fields of older horses ever assembled prior to the Breeders Cup era. He carried high weight on the weight-for-age scale. Still not 100% recovered, he nevertheless set a world record for the 1 1/8 miles.

Secretariat was then pointed for his first start on grass, which was to be in the Man o' War Stakes at Belmont. He was being trained on the turf, while his stablemate, Riva Ridge, was being pointed toward the Woodward. However, as the race approached, the forecast was for rain. Riva never did like to run on a sloppy track. So Secretariat was hastily entered in Riva's place.

Not only wasn't Red being pointed for the Woodward; not only was he being trained on grass, but the Woodward was just two weeks after Red's world-record-setting race in the Marlboro Cup. Despite all this, Secretariat still managed a game second to the older Prove Out. Finishing behind him were champions Cougar II and Summer Guest. Summer Guest, by the way, was a champion MARE, so yes, Secretariat did beat a top-class female horse (wish we could use emoticons here so I could post an eye-rolling one).

That was the last race Secretariat lost. He would end his career with spectacular wins in the Man o' War and Canadian International on grass, beating, among others, the excellent turf specialist, Tentam.

Red finished his career with 21 starts, crossing the finish line first 17 times (with one DQ), second twice, third once, and fourth once, with lifetime earnings of $1,316,808 back when a million dollars was real money. He was undefeated on turf. He was named champion three-year-old, champion turf horse, and Horse of the Year for 1973. In his career, he won every Eclipse award for which he was eligible.

Those who fault Red for not racing as a four-year-old are just ignorant, nuts or mean-spirited. His owner-breeder, Christopher Chenery died in January 1973. Secretariat was hastily syndicated to help pay the damned estate taxes. One of the terms of the syndication was that he had to be retired at the end of 1973.

From my point of view, focusing only on Secretariat's losses just adds to his legend. Even so, focusing on them to the exclusion of his amazing wins is like discounting our victory in World War II because we were bombed at Pearl Harbor and suffered early defeats in the Philippines. It's an attempt to bury the truth.

As for me, the greatest Belmont I have ever seen, or ever will see, was in 1973. I was in the club house stands that day, cheering myself hoarse along with over 70,000 other people as Secretariat rolled on in a performance for the ages. Seeing that race on TV or in YouTube videos simply doesn't do the experience justice. In my mind's eye, I can still see the hazy, sunny day. I can still feel the humid warmth, and still hear the thunderous cheers, clapping, and even crying, then the excited, breathless rush of people asking each other how much he won by. I can still see the colors and Ronnie Turcotte atop that marvelous red horse as they entered the winner's circle. All these years later, I still count myself among the privileged who were there that day, and it is still one of the highlights of my life.

Oh, by the way, your claim that the 1973 crop of three-year-olds was one of the weakest ever is preposterous. In addition to Secretariat and Sham, it included Forego, Mr. Prospector, Stop The Music, Linda's Chief, Shecky Greene, Allez France, Ancient Title, Bel Sheba (dam of Alysheba), Dahlia, Desert Vixen, and La Prevoyante.

Sometimes the lack of civility here is galling. Who cares if she thinks Big Red was overrated, that's her opinion but to call her stupid and to address her as honey is classless. Don't agree with her! Express your opinion or belief, just on a more intellectual level, please.

I don't say Secretariat is overrated, I just don't think he was the greatest. Secretariat was 20-16-3-1, that pales in comparison to Citation being 20-19-1 in his 3yr old season alone with a 45-32-10-2 lifetime. Alsab was 22-15-3-1 at two almost as good as Secretariats' record. He once ran 3 races in 11 days; beating a filly by 3 1/2 lengths while spotting her 11 pounds, beaten by Whirlaway in the 2 mile Jockey Gold Cup and in the 2 1/4 mile New York Handicap beating Obash and Whirlaway by a head. By all means read the historical record, it's full of great performances. Some down right freaky, like Secretariats' Belmont but has anybody ever heard of Silky Sullivan?

Point is, opinion is one thing, opinionated is something entirely different.

Memorable Belmont? Rags vs Curlin.

Catherine, if Secretariat is so highly over rated, then why do so many of his records still stand 26 years later?

oops, 36 years!

My most memorable moment was when we watched kids from local hospitals drop a banner as Afleet Alex and Jeremy Rose rounded the final turn at Belmont. Both horse and jockey must have seen it because Afleet Alex kicked in and won. The banner read

"WE LOVE YOU AFLEET ALEX!"

and we Afleet Alex fans still do!

Since the blog is asking for only one choice mine would have to be last year when big brown fell apart. Never before has a horse going for the Triple Crown finished dead last in the Belmont. That is a record that may never be matched. To top it off he was beaten by an entire field that even included a maiden. A rare "feat" indeed. At least Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, and the rest of the recent attempts at gaining a Triple Crown ran respectable races and didn't embarass themselves. Add it all up and it was one memorable race.

EASY GOER without a Doubt!! Easy Goer ran the 2nd Fastest Test of a Champion Belmont Stakes in history behind only Secretariat-his time of 2:26 is still the 2nd Fastest ever run!! And this was after Easy Goer ran the Fastest Mile ever run by any 3yo in history in 1:32 2/5,just 1/5 of a second off Dr. Fager's World Record Mile!! And Easy Goer would go on after this to be the only Horse in History to Reel off the Whitney-G1, Travers-G1, Woodward-G1 and Jockey Club Gold Cup-G1!!

I know he's not on the list but,  Secretariat remains the standard for me. At 14 I was glued to the TV during his Triple Crown and I can tell you. I've never seen anything that comes close to what he accomplished. His Belmont was run in 98% humidity. And for those of who have written he was overrated. I suggest you go back and study the history books or better yet vist www.secretariat.com and educate yourselves.

The 1998 Belmont where Real Quiet lost by a nose to Victory Gallop. No time in history did a horse lose the Triple Crown by so little. One half a jump away from immortality.

I still get goose bumps whenever I watch re-runs of the incredible stretch run of Rags and Curlin.  It's just as exciting as when it originally happened.  They are both 2 of my favorite racehorses.  As impressed as I am with Rachel Alexandra, Rags to Curlin is the breeding I'd like to see.  

since big red is off the table.that was the best belmont EVER.i have to go with rags win and alex as a real close second.still smartin after smarty!me being a philly fan an all.

While I concur with many posters about the great duels of the past, my memories, also, include comments from track buddies.  Such as a friend, who said he "Owned" the Belmont, much akin to Woody, because he had won five straight years of betting on the Belmont.  He was on a roll for a couple of months and unloaded a very large win bet on Go for Gin, only to see the wonders of D Wayne's superb hands-on training of Tabasco Cat.

Another was a horse identifier buddy who used to say "There is no way to get blocked in the Belmont", only to see McCarron on Alysheba forced wide and lose, not only the trophy, but, the bonus as well.

Plus, the same buddy who lost his bet on Go for Gin is still screaming whenever anyone mentions Kent D - He starts yelling "He moved too soon, too soon".  He does not remain "real quiet".

Now, can we bring back "Sidewalks of New York" and leave "New York, New York" to the dance crowd?

Forego wasn't anywhere near his best in the Kentucky Derby, and he was slammed into the rail in the race too. The 1970 foal crop was a very good one, but Secretariat never faced two of its top members,Dahlia and Desert Vixen.

I am a Silver Charm fan first and foremost...and his '97 Belmont was absolute torture for me.  So, I'd say it was very memorable!

I am also a Point Given fan who loved his romp in 2001!  What a race that was - sweet redemption.

Finally, I will say Rags to Riches beating Curlin is the best Belmont I've personally seen.  I can't remember being so excited or moved by a stretch duel.  Chicks rule!

Rags beating Curlin and I say this eventhough Curlin is the equine love of my life. This race got me out of bed after major surgery with a pillow to my stomach and holding on to my husband while I yelled my head off. It wasn't just the desperate run to the finish. It was Rags falling to her knees out of the gate, running wide and beating the top 3 year olds in the country AND the eventual 2 time horse of the year. What a Filly!!! What a Race!!!

For Big Red,

     SPOT ON on The Greatest Ever, The One and Only, Secretariat.  I only wish I was older(I am 42) to have seen him race in person!, Books and Videos, I am sure, Don't do him Justice, Thanks for explaining to people on his losses and him not racing as a four year old...

   Still not over Smarty's Loss in the Belmont, lol...

I voted for Easy Goer and Sunday Silence. I think they were probably very close in talent with Sunday Silence having the tactical advantage. But Easy Goer had the more accomplished career and I love that he finally proved himself in the Belmont.

If I were to be truly honest though, the answer is of course 2003. I had picked Funny Cide as my Derby horse early in the year (Feb?). I went to NY to see him run in the Wood and even though he finished second, I confidently told a rail bird next to me that he would win the Derby. I was shaking on the first Saturday in May when he charged down the stretch to win. On the afternoon of the Preakness, I got a little flutter in my chest because I just knew he would have a great race and he did, winning by 9 or 10. I went back to NY to watch the Belmont. I so desperately wanted to see him win. It was a miserable, chilly, rainy day. After he lost, I drove back to my Grandfather's house, pulled the car over before I got home, and burst into tears. I was just crushed.

And in 2004, I think I never really liked Smarty Jones because to me, he didn't do anything in the Derby and Preakness more than what Funny Cide had done the year before, yet he got accolades and love while Funny Cide was more of a joke.

The most memorable in a positive way that I've witnessed is Rags to Riches beating Curlin. Not just because of the filly vs. colt angle, but because they were two great horses who battled down the stretch. Just a great race.

I'm sort of with Diane D in that my most memorable Belmont was way before the cut-off date: 1964, Northern Dancer, 3rd to Quadrangle after he had won the Derby and the Preakness (and great-great, etc of RA this year).

Then Secretariat, who broke the Dancer's record in the Derby and I was having trouble reconciling myself to that until WOW! his Belmont!

For the time period you have set out, I'm still confused about the Big Brown fiasco.  You pull up a horse in a classic because he's gonna lose???????

Good memorable: Touch Gold, Rags to Riches

(Really: Affirmed/Alydar, but that's beyond your dates too)

I totally agree with Eilise.  Watching Risen Star with Eddie D mow down the filly Winning Colors and then open up by over 15 lengths in 1988 was something I'll never forget.  I also remember the trainer Louie Roussel promising a portion of the purse to a local half-way house run by nuns, and then seeing the sisters jump with glee at the finish.  

As the strongest son of Secretariat, it was an amazing sight.

There were 4 reasons why Rags beat Curlin in the '07 Belmont. She got a 5 pound weight advantage; she was the more experienced and seasoned horse; she was by far the fresher horse after Curlin's grueling Preakness; and most importantly, it was the first time Curlin was pinned down on the rail in his then ONLY SIX race career, he was a bit confused and ran erratically down the stretch. I believe, as many others do,  that had Curlin been on the outside of Rags that day, he would have prevailed as he did in the Preakness on the outside of Street Sense.

Don't get me wrong, Rags was a great filly, and I mean no disrespect. But the fact remains she was never the same after that race...it ended her racing career.

I'm not sure the same fate would befall Rachel Alexandra. She's in another league. Bigger and stronger than Rags. Rachel appears to be the best filly to race since Ruffian.

I would prefer, however, she skip the Belmont, rest up, and become the first Filly to win the Travers since 1915 (Lady Rotha). Interesting....1915 was the year of the filly as they also won the Derby (Regret) and Preakness (Rhein Maiden).

Big Red ... let me clue you in.  Greatness is determined on the track and we have all said Secretariat was a great horse but to rank him second all time makes him OVERRATED when comparing him to Kelso and Citation. He never raced at 4 and lost 3 times at 3 sorry but there is a handful of horses that he does not stack up against.... like it or not. AND you are bragging about... Sham, it included Forego, Mr. Prospector, Stop The Music, Linda's Chief, Shecky Greene, Allez France, Ancient Title, Bel Sheba (dam of Alysheba), Dahlia, Desert Vixen, and La Prevoyante.  These are your quality horses ? We all know Forego took over after doing NOTHING at 3 and with Sham and Secretariat gone he beat up on this weak group !!! Thanks for making my point...Desert Vixen...lol...you're funny Big Red...very funny. And if you want to bring up excuses for losing how about Big Brown losing only once in his career because he got stepped on by a maiden winner when going for the Triple Crown.  Big Brown never lost another race was undefeated against older and on turf.

Saratoga...what is wrong with you Curlin fans ?  What is it that you don't understand ? Curlin lost races against tough horses. The Derby he lost, the Belmont he lost, The Haskell he got whipped.  He tried turf got whipped and then at the end of the year in the biggest race he didn't even hit the board when facing a tough group.  When facing Wanderin Boy he won but when facing tough rivals he often lost. Rags to Riches looked him in the eye and beat him fair and square.  You would never see Big Brown get beat by a filly looking him in the eye I can tell you that.

RA hasn't even proved she's better than Winning Colors. 1st KD, 1st SA Derby,1st SA Oaks,

2nd Preakness and VERY clos 2nd to the undefeated Personal Ensighn in the Breeders Cup Distaff. IMO RA cant bee mentioned in the same breath as Ruffian. Maybe someday but she has a ways to go... Most memorable Belmont as per the choices is Smarty Jones.

Citation ran until he was six years old.  Secretariat only ran and 2 and 3.  That's a huge difference.  Had Secretariat raced at 4, 5 and 6 he would have racked up a lot more wins.  As he approached the end of his 3 year old year, he was getting better and better.  He truly is not an "overated" horse in my opinion but everyone is entitled to their opinion as well.

Isn't it amazing how much we love our horses?  I am a true horse lover and I went to Kentucky twice to see my favorites and go CD for the Breeder's Cup.

I don't care what anyone thinks of Secretariat because I LOVED him and I think he was one of the greatest!  I got to see him and pet him at Claiborne and I just kept seeing that 31 length Belmont win.  No horse will ever equal or beat that.  2:26 is the closest set by Easy Goer whom I saw race twice in person.

I also went to see Alydar, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Storm Bird, Damascus, Ferdinand, Ack Ack,

Najinski, Mr. Prospector, Seeking the Gold, Risen Star and several others.  I love them all.  No one can ever convince me the Secretariat wasn't one of the greatest horses ever.

EFFY and Some others,

   EFFY, Your quote, "big brown choking last year. To get beat by an entire field of allowance class horses and a maiden when you are going for the triple crown was stunning."

    While I respect your opinion, I would have to disagree strongly, IMO, Big Brown's Loose shoe was every bit the reason for him being pulled up, He was not himself, That loose shoe was the reason for his performance in the Belmont, or he probably would have the Triple Crown...While no one will ever know for sure if this is the reason for his performance, IMO, It is the reason...

    A quote from Greg Bennett, the primary veterinarian for Rick Dutrow, ""When a shoe comes off, it does throw a horse out of balance, but it depends how traumatically it happens and at what stage of the race," Bennett told the paper. "A couple nails can loosen up, which can cause a lot of problems and affect a horse's performance.

     Michael Iavarone Quote, "The picture shocked me, When the shoe spread, a nail could have been pinching him. Or he could have been stepping on a hot nail, which would have been worse. I'm guessing the nail went back in but not in the same spot. Or it could have been a loose shoe, which would be like trying to run with a wobbly cleat."

    Here is the Picture(About 200 yards after the start of last Year's Belmont):

sports.espn.go.com/.../enlargePhoto

Hey Draynay,a Question: are there ANY quality horses in your opinion except the current flavours of the moment?  

(Just wondering if you ever saw any horse older than 4 or 5.)

Draynay,

Why do you do this?  Big Brown and Curlin are retired.  What's the point?

Dray your horse did happen to get beat by allowence and maidens in the belmont. He also only won by a diminishing head in the ungraded Monmoth stakes, where he barely beat Proudinsky, who would be whiped by Red Rocks and GC and Einstien. Speaking of Einstien, didn't he just win the his last a grade one on turf? Didn't he win the Clark agaist Commentator on dirt? Didn't he just win at SA on a synthetic track. Isn't he the leader for HOTY in some ppl opinion? That doesn't sound weak to me. O and the horses Curlin lost two he also beat them. In the Preakness he beat both HS and SS who were ahead of him in the Derby, RTR needed to wait and rest for five weeks before she could dare take on a tired Curlin, who she still barely beat. At least curlin actually beat some competion, unlike BB who ducked everyone. He only ever faced older horses that weren't even close to grade one company, and still amost got beat. He beat nothing in the haskel and again almost got beat by an allowence winner! What has that horse come back to do? He had every chance to face Curlin and never did it. Curlin faced anybody who came, BB ran scared.

I've been to every Belmont Stakes since 1993, and I've seen plenty of great moments (Afleet Alex, YES!), but the most memorable was Real Quiet's nose loss that sticks with me to this day. I thought we had another Triple Crown winner, but, no, it was not to be. Just heart-breaking.

    I love Big Brown, BUT to mention him in the same breath as Secretariat is Insane.  And to say Secretariat's foe, Sham, was not a good horse is also insane.  Sham often gets overlooked in history because of Secretariat.  He was a great horse in his own right.  His Record, 13, 5-5-1, Sham won the Santa Catalina Stakes (G2)and took second place in the Wood Memorial Stakes (G1) over Secretariat who finished third. In the Santa Anita Derby (GI), California's main Kentucky Derby prep race, Sham scored a 2 1/2 length surprise victory over 1-2 favorite Linda's Chief, under jockey Laffit Pincay Jr. Sham electrified a crowd of 49,564 by equaling the Santa Anita Derby record for the 1 1/8 miles of 1:47.  

    In the 1973 Kentucky Derby, Sham ripped two teeth out on the starting gate, bleeding from the start of the race, he poured his entire heart into the effort, Secretariat won by 2 1/2 lengths over Sham. Secretariat, Running 1:59 2/5 for the 1 1/4 miles, the first horse to break 2 minutes in the Derby.  Sham, running 2 1/2 lengths behind Secretariat, Sham ran the distance in either 1:59 4/5 or 2:00.  Sham's Derby time was thus no worse than the fourth fastest time in history (behind Secretariat, Monarchos, and Northern Dancer) and may have been the second fastest time in history.

No other horse, through and including the 2009 running of the Kentucky Derby has ever been below 2 minutes.  

     1973 Preakness, Secretariat struck down rival Sham for the second time in two weeks. With a field of just six, Sham finished second to Secretariat by 2 ½ lengths again.

     1973 Belmont, Pincay was ordered to stay with Secretariat, No matter what.  It was working from the start, the first turn and into the backstretch, Racing as though it was a sprint race, quarter-mile fractions in incredible times that were record-breaking in themselves, Neck and neck halfway through the race, Secretariat pulled ahead as Sham could not keep pace with the Incredible Secretariat.  Sham did finish last in that incredible race, But, IMO, It was sham that helped make Secretariat the Greatest Ever, Hands down.

     While getting ready to meet Secretariat again at Saratoga in 1973.  A hairline fracture of his leg was detected and he was retired.  He died of a heart attack on April 3, 1993 at the age of 23. At autopsy, his heart was found to weigh 18 pounds, about twice the average Thoroughbred heart.  While Secretariat's heart weighed an Amazing 22 pounds!

    So to say Sham and other of Secretariat's foes weren't good, is just off base, and un-educated, IMO.

Finally,

    I believe I will take the opinion of the Educated people over at ESPN on their TOP 100 ATHELETES OF ALL-TIME, ESPN listed Secretariat 35th of the 100 greatest athletes of the 20th century, the highest of three non-humans on the list (the other two were also racehorses: Man o' War at 84th and Citation at 97th ).

'For Big Red' thank you for being amongst the most sensible & knowlageable on this blog. I truly enjoy reading your comments.

FYI Draynay - Forego 'did nothing at three' First, let me point out that Forego was a late bloomer and ran in more grade 1 races at 3 when he 'did nothing' then your Big Brown did in his carrer. He's also the ONLY 4x H.O.T.Y. Forego is by far the greatest handicap horse to have ever been tacked up. Bar none. BUT on the subject of his 3 y/o year; Secretariat was great at 2 & 3. He never raced Forego when Forego was great.

Again Draynay your ignorance shocks me. How can you say the crop of 1970 was weak? ESPECIALLY in comparison to last years 'elite' 3y/os. Have you ever heard of Mr. Prospector? Or Dahlia?  

IMO; Big Brown wouldn't have ben Secretariat's work out buddy, he wouldn't have even been his lead pony for that matter. Anyone who thinks that a horse who still holds records 36 years after he left the track is overrated has some serious re-evaluation to do on what they believe greatness is.

Thats you Draynay

TO:DRAYNAY

Here's a point! Many instances you became angry with many that trashed BB last yr. You defended him,which I stated several time that I admired you for it,since I liked him also. Then,why is it difficult to understand people that defend horses they like,be it MTB,Curlin,whatever? And,no I'm not foolish enough to place MTB in the league as BB,but I'm telling you this,MTB is all heart and didn't get the easy trip he did in the Derby. There's no quit in him and I said it after the Derby. Sportsmanship isn't "slamming horses" like a child that doesn't win in a game. You never see posts where I'm slamming horses,just people!

Without a doubt, Easy Goer in 1989.  I don't think I've ever had greater satisfaction over an outcome of a race than I did on June 10, 1989.  The fans of his knew he was better than Sunday Silence and he proved it in the Belmont in a BIG way.  No photo finishes, no stretch drives, just absolute domination by the better horse.  It's amazing how this debate rages on two decades later but many STILL believe, despite his 1-3 record vs. S. Silence that Easy Goer was better.

TO:GREG J

Did you see on Jason's other blog where Draynay told me he's a better handicapper than Steve Haskin? lol

So now nay nay is back on the big ole browneye kick? His name should never be brought up in any conversation about greatness. This is a horse who only raced once at 2 and never raced beyond 3. Not much of a record to go on there. Longevity is a part of the measurement for greatness too. Any trouble he had he brought on himself. The poor maiden who had to line up next to him in the Belmont was caught completely by surprise when the browneye broke right into him. Stop blaming the one who was interfered with.The big ole browneye was just another flash in the pan, his career wasn't long enough for more than that. He just got lucky enough to run against others who were very very very very weak at the time. On top of that he lost to some of them.

Well, it looks like, as usual, all these comments just go to show that there have been lots of magnificent horses and lots of fans that will always love them, their favorites most of all.  If you are going to look only at race records then Secretariat may not have the best record, but Big Red was much more than his race record.  The very few losses he had were when he was sick.  If he had not been legally bound to go to the breeding shed he would easily have dominated racing for as long as he ran.  He was huge, strong, conformationally almost perfect and his heart was freakishly big.  He broke every track record in the Triple Crown races and those times still stand.  And the way he ran a race was the most awesome thing in the world to watch.  Everyone has been excited to watch Bird come from behind; well, Big Red did that in almost every race he ran.  It brings me to tears everytime I watch his races.  And another thing he was that no other horse has been able to match (though some came close) is a beacon of all that is the sport of horseracing.  His memory transcends all limitations - everyone knows the great Secretariat.  His greatness does not just rest on his race record - it rests on the magic of Big Red himself.

Draynay;

PLEASE SPARE US FROM MORE OF YOU BIG BROWN NONSENSE! You must be the only one on the planet who still thinks BB was a better horse than Curlin.

Just like you were woofing all Spring about Quality Road (which I agree with you frighteningly enough), basing your arguments on QR's superior BEYER SPEED RATINGS, the same ratings that proved Curlin was BY FAR a faster horse than your beloved BB. You can be soooo hypocritical my friend. BB was a good horse in a terrible 3yr old crop. Case closed.

draynay,

Curlin never lost to another horse who wasn't a G1 winner. That's impressive since he traveled the world and ran. Big Brown can never make that claim. In fact he never hit the board in a Graded Turf race like Curlin did, never won HOY like Curlin did twice, never won a Breeders Cup Classic like Curlin did, never beat older on dirt like Curlin did, never raced beyond 3 like Curlin did, never even placed in the top 4 on artificial like Curlin did, I could go on and on. Give it a rest. Big Brown is now retired and left to running away from the Filly's in the breeders shed.

Why can we ever just stick to answering the question on the list?  My favorite was not on the list either but I did not address that.  It was clearly stated why the cut off was 1979.

Big Brown did not lose the Belmont by 30+ lengths because of a loose shoe so please stop with that lame excuse. What did you expect Iavarone to say "My horse was humiliated due to steroid withdrawel".

  Will we ever see another horse as good as:  SECRETARIAT???

Forego only won Horse of the Year 3 times, while Kelso won it 5. Saying that Secretariat is the greatest of all time is very Triple Crown centered, as the only way that you could say he is the best is if you only pay attention to his Triple Crown. Easy Goer was probably the better horse between him and Sunday Silence, and so the 1989 Belmont got my vote.

Victory Gallop finally getting to "The Fish" (Real Quiet) by a nostril, denying Real Quiet's Triple Crown bid by a photo that took what seemed like an hour to decipher. MTB and Victory Gallop have the same deep-closing style. Lookout at a mile and half!

Eventhough I'm now 65, the first Derby I ever watched was in 1999. The year of Charismatic and Chris Antley. Talk about a story line.

I had no idea what the Triple Crown was. I did not know anything at all about horse racing. That year, I saw an advertisement for the Kentucky Derby and I decided to watch it, just to see what the big hoopla was all about. Little did I know that I was doomed to be hopelessly hooked. The beauty of the horses, the stories of the humans associated with them, the colors, the pageantry. I could not believe what I had missed. I was 55. Old enough to have seen all the great horses you guys are arguing about today. I missed all that...

So, if racing captured me well into my middle age, there is no reason it can't attract new fans every year if only they are exposed to it. ADVERTISEMENT got me to watch in 1999.

My first experience remains the most memorable to me and I will never forget the gorgeous horse Charismatic and his likable jockey.

big brown couldn't carry rags to riches jockstrap, wait i meant rag. she would have run him into the ground. rags beat far better horses than big brown ever faced.

the measure of greatness is who you beat and how good they were when you beat them. on top of that it matters greatly that you do it over a long period of time. big brown has no victories that fit any of those criteria. he never faced the best of his era and he never beat the best of his era. his resume falls light years short in those respects. the races he managed to win no matter what races they were lacked serious competition at the time of their running. if this were a job interview and you looked at the resumes of curlin vs big brown and their accomplishments the latter wouldn't rate a second interview. bush won the presidency but look who he ran against. the competition was weak and it didn't make him any better than one of the worst ever.

MIKE RELVA,

     Yeah, I saw that about Draynay, Saying he was a better Handicapper then Mr. Haskin, lol, That is like saying a Donkey(Jackass) is faster then a Thoroughbred....

MIKEM,  

    I am entitled to form my opinion on Big Brown's loose shoe, You beg to differ, Fine with me, I did do my homework on his shoe, though,  I have asked numerous Trainer's regarding this, And, ALL of them said it would effect the Horse, To what degree, it all depends on the Shoe, How loose, Nail placement, Etc., But when I showed them this following Slideshow, They all agreed to a man, That Yes, Most likely this was the reason for Big Brown's performance in The Belmont. As far as your comment regarding Iavarone, My argument has nothing to do with him either way, I presented the facts to respected trainers, and they formed their opinion, No dis-respect meant here, But, I value their educated opinion alot more then yours...

Slideshow:

gallery.bloodhorse.com/.../default.aspx

No race has ever affected me more in my life than when I thought I would see my first Triple Crown winner, and my dreams were dashed by a NOSE on the wire.

I hold a grudge for Victory Gallop to this day, and a part of me still roots for his offspring to lose in races. I guess I'm a bad sport. I was fifteen, and I was scarred for life.

Needless to say, I was happy as a clam when Midnight Lute became the first horse in history to win two BC Sprints in a row!

For Big Red...You always say things perfectly...but I would add that in the Wood Turcotte didn't know about the abcess and has said that if he had known he would have not fought him and he "probably" would have won.

Greg J...Way to go defending Sham. I have always loved him and IMO the only horse in the history of the Derby who could have beaten him did. It would be a close photo with Monarchos though!

As for Big Brown's Belmont...shoe or no shoe Kent pulled him up. That makes it Kent's fault that he finished last. I don't want to speculate on how he could have done but no horse can win if the jockey is not cooperating.

I answered Rags to Riches in 2007. What a race to the finish.  I was so thrilled to see a filly win. But my most memorable are before the time you listed.  I would have to choose Secretariat, not because of how he did it but where I saw.  That is the year I gratuated high school, and I saw that race in the terminal of the Honolulu airport on a replay.  I was thrilled that He had gotten the Triple Crown.  My other most memorable is Seattle Slew.  I was at Belmont Park that Saturday with my Daddy who taught me to enjoy throughbred racing and who I miss dearly.

This whole thread has gotten so far beyond ridiculous that its...well...ridiculous! As if it's not bad enough that a few people are insistent upon diminishing SECRETARIAT, now they're diminishing the entire foal crop of 1970 (which was a great one) and all the other horses racing in the early 1970's (which was one of the great times in racing). It's really absurd.

And these people who attempt to diminish SECRETARIAT (unsuccessfully, I might add) are praising BIG BROWN and CURLIN? There is no comparison whatsoever. SECRETARIAT is in the Top Five (maybe even #1) of racehorses in American History, while BIG BROWN  and CURLIN should probably be in the rank of #70-#80 somewhere.

BIG BROWN absolutely ducked competition. That's why we didn't see him in the Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup or Breeders Cup. In fact, his connections so desperately wanted to duck competition, after his fantastic beat-down by DA' TARA in the Belmont Stakes, that they went around BEGGING for racetracks to write an easy race for him, and he only ran twice after the Belmont trouncing! SECRETARIAT didn't do that (chicken-out). After his Belmont (greatest race ever ran) he ran six more times, dodging no one, and went to stud sitting on top of the world and with the reputation of being probably the greatest racehorse ever. BIG BROWN went off to stud after only racing 9 or 10 times and with the reputation that his connections had wimped out at the end of the year...a description that really seems to fit.

CURLIN was a great horse. I love CURLIN. CURLIN lost the Derby by 8 lengths, he lost the Preakness (in very moderate time) by a head, and he lost the Haskell decisively. At 4 he lost the Man O' War Stakes and he was fourth in the Breeders Cup, being beaten fair and square (he lost, he was not "beaten by the synthetic track"). He won the Dubai World Cup and Breeders Cup Classic and several other races, and he made a great reputation for himself. My chief complaint about him is that while he raced at 4 everyone else from his crop retired from racing at 3 so we got to see CURLIN racing against somewhat suspect competition while horses that had defeated him at 3 (STREET SENSE, RAGS TO RICHES, HARD SPUN and ANY GIVE SATURDAY)were all retired. I think it's pretty safe to say that had these four horses stayed around to race in 2008 CURLIN's record wouldn't look so good.

The SECRETARIAT bashing is ridiculous enough, but if you think that "all the horses" racing in the 1970's were terrible I can't imagine what it is that you enjoy about Thoroughbred racing...that was one of the best eras this sport has seen.

Curlin didn't lose the Preakness in moderate time, he won the Preakness in record-equaling time.

***Ooops!!! I meant to say that "CURLIN lost the Belmont by a head (in moderate time), but I made an error and said that he lost the Preakness. Sorry about that!

CURLIN was an underperformer. HE LOST ALOT OF BIG RACES.HE HAD SOMETHING MISSING maybe heart.

Citation, I'm pretty sure that Secretariat's two year old season, in which he finished first in eight of nine races, was champion two year old and also Horse of the Year, had nothing to do with the Triple Crown.  I'm also pretty sure that his world-record setting performance in the inaugural Marlboro Cup (1 1/8 miles in 1:45 2/5) didn't have anything to do with the Triple Crown.  

How about the Man 'o War, in which he ran a mile and a half on turf in a course record time of 2:24 4/5?  He beat Tentam in that race, by the way.  By five lengths.  

I suppose one could make the argument that his track record tying performance (a mile in 1:33 2/5) in the Gotham is connected with the Triple Crown, since it's a prep race.  

To say that without the Triple Crown, Secretariat would be nothing, is ignorant of the horse's accomplishments.  

And to keep this just a little bit on topic - my favorite post-1979 Belmont is probably 2007 - I was screaming that filly all the way down the stretch!  I love an exciting stretch duel.  It's pre-1979, but I also loved Bold Forbes' Belmont, which he won on sheer guts.  What a race!  

The most exciting Belmont was Victory Gallop catching Real Quiet.

The most heartbreaking was Funny Cide losing. I cried.

The craziest was Big Brown being pulled up for no reason.

Secretariat's Belmont time is a track record, but not a world record, which is held by Hawkster, 2:22 and 4/5. It wasn't a world record when he ran it either, since Kelso had run 2:23 and 4/5, and some English horse went in 2:23 flat at Newmarket. If you only count dirt times, then Swaps, after 53 years, still has the world record for 1 and 5/8 miles, so long-standing records aren't exclusive to Secretariat. Just correcting some common mistakes.

Zookeeper,

You sound like me!  I'm 55 (almost 56) and I became a fan during Silver Charm's TC run.  I remember that during the Belmont they did a feature about how a foal grows up to be a racehorse, "narrated" by the foal.  When Silver Charm lost the race, I could not believe how depressed I was.  So I decided to read up on and follow the sport, and not just in the spring.  So that would be my most memorable Belmont.  

Secretariat?  I only read about him in the paper when I was in college, so I missed a lot of good stuff too.

My favorite Belmont was Rags vs. Curlin.  I am not blaming the race for what happened to Rags' career, but I really hope our current superfilly is able to have a longer one.

Barb, Exactly, a horse can't run if the jockey pulls him up.  Anything else you want to talk about becomes a moot point if he isn't allowed to run.  That goes for any horse, not just Big Brown. Mine That Bird couldn't have made that run if Calvin had pulled him up in the final turn.  Even Secretariat couldn't have run if Turcotte was pulling him up.  Thank God those jockeys didn't decide that the horse was tired and didn't need to finish the race.

I mean that other horses have had far more non Triple Crown accomplishments than Secretariat, not that he didn't have any. If this poll went farther back, then my vote would have to be for the Belmont of 1957, which had one of the best fields for that race, even though it only had six horses, due to the presence of Gallant Man and Bold Ruler.

Greg J. I too respect your view on Sham.

However, on the loose shoe? Not sure what trainers you asked but enough of them said publically that they know horses run with loose, twisted and pulled shoes all the time. Some of the most well known and respected trainers in the game.  

Saw a horse the other day on TV who runs without his back shoes all the time.

Did those respected trainers tell you that the aluminum shoes are soft as butter?

I've seen lots pull a shoe, as long as they don't pull off part of a foot they're usually okay.

Fact is I've seen rodeo horses pull shoes, nearly summersault and keep on running. A friends horse pulled a shoe off and a chunk of the foot and kept on running. This is barrel racing and the sharp turns make it even more dangerous, since most push off with amazing force.

We've had runners lose a shoe in a race and not even realize it until we started checking for cuts etc after the race, just as trainers always do.

I think we've discussed BB beyond what's reasonable.

My most memorable Belmont? Charismatic, because Mr and Mrs Lewis had lost one TC in a heartbreaker and they were so good to the game. The Bid, then Funny Cide, also because of his backstory.

Geesh, some of you guys will diss anybody, you have ZERO respect for the sport and ZERO respect for the horses...from Secretariat to a $2500 claimer...your betting money goes just as far on any one of them...they run as well as the talent they have, do you?

Hi Greg J.  

Yeah BIG RED!  :)

OK going through some of these posts I have to say this.  Secretariat was the best horse of the 20th century and Seattle Slew.  

To say that Secretariat is over-rated is absurd!  He was one hell of a horse and I don't think any horse will come close to what he did.  Slew is also right up that alley.  

Mike S

GOOD POST!  :)  The 70's rocked!  Those days are gone.  Three TC races won in one decade.  Yeah.  Nuff said.  :)

Wow .... Im a little surprised at all the Filly Mania ..... I attended 27 of these Belmonts and think priority always has to be given to races that have a Triple Crown on the line .... and i was rooting like CRAZY for Rags ...She saved the Belmont that year after The Derby Winner dropped out.

But for me Real Quiet-Victory Gallop is just a notch under Affirmed-Alydar. Gallop had been second in the first two legs.Real Quiet had a seemingly insurmountable four length lead at the EIGHTH pole ... No one in the crowd of 80,000 knew if we had a triple crown winner after a 20 year waitor not ... ( Rags-Curlin drew under 50)

Add to that the debate that the stewards would have had to actually DISQUALIFY a Triple Crown winner .... and there is still no question in my mind that this is the one.

Honorable Mention to Smarty Jones although I still havent recovered from that heartbreak !

I meant to say the foal feature was part of the Derby telecast in '97, not the Belmont.  During the Belmont show they talked about Silver Charm's sire and dam and showed them in their paddocks.  I found that interesting too.  You never know what will draw someone in.  I do wish I hadn't missed so much, though.

Citation:

Nice to bring up old Kelso and his amazing 2:23.4 in the 1 1/2M 1964 Laurel Washington DC International.  

Five time HOTY Kelly still owns  what is now the oldest World Record time...his 3:19.1 on dirt in the 2M 1964 Jockey Club Gold Cup 5 weeks before his above time on grass in the Int'l. All while 7 years old.

I was a teenager and saw Kelly run 4 times in person at Belmont and Aqueduct. The list of great runners he beat reads like a who's who of the first half of the decade of the 60's. Carry Back, Mongo, Jaipur, Ridan, Crimson Satan, Gun Bow, Bald Eagle, Tompion, Guadalcanal, Roman Brother, Never Bend, Beau Purple, Quadrangle, Olden Times...among many others.

A great horse, and certainly in anyone's Top 5 of all time.

Easiest question ever!  I will never forget when "Super" horse Curlin got beat by a girl.

Steve S,

    Did you see Curlin's Belmont or Preakness, a horse with no heart wouldn't have made the effort to re-rally just in time to put his head down on the wire first. In the Belmont the first time this horse was ever pinned down on the rail, he actually came back at RTR and almost got by her during her stretch run. How is that not heart?

There have been many memorable Belmonts and alot of them won by the unlikliest of horses; e.g., Commendable, Sarava, Da Tara, etc.  One of the things that makes this race so difficult to handicap is, of course, the distance. We all know that few thoroughbreds these days have mile and a half breeding up close in their pedigrees. Another thing about the Belmont is the track itself. Unlike any other race track in America, "Big Sandy" is just that: a sandy mixture of loam that is very abrasive.  You'll notice that most horses wear back wraps or rundowns at Belmont...for a reason. Then, there is the configuration of the track. The turns are endless and many a jockey [besides KD] has asked the question prematurely.  This race is most usually won by an even paced galloper who can run all day.  That's why horses who have an explosive kick or one big late run are often at a disadvantage against a one paced horse who has been allowed to set or press a moderate pace. Just a few thoughts on this most unusual race.

Well, seeing that the cut off date is 1979, I had to vote for Real Quiet.  But, if it was any Belmont, it has to be "The Big Red Machine"  Secretariat, the one and only!

Saratoga AJ, you were lucky!  I know that when I first started to pay attention to horse racing (spending all my time trying to figure out when ANY horse race was going to come on TV), it seemed to me that Kelso was ALWAYS HOY and everyone had to wait for him to retire to have any shot at it.

He never did run in any TC race, right?  Do you remember why?

I agree with Dutch.  The best Belmont in the past 30 years is the Real Quiet/Victory Gallop battle to the wire.

I am one of those who believe RQ would have had his number taken down had he won.  He clearly came out and impeded VG's forward progress.

I's put Tough Gold edging not only Silver Charm but also Free House as my 2nd choice and Rags to Riches/Curlin as 3rd.

Point Given was never going to catch Monarchos in the Derby, and his Belmont was anti-climactic to me.  Smarty Jones just couldn't get the distance and his loss was predictable.

Anyone who never saw Secretariat run and thinks he is overrated is certifiable.  Those who haven't and think that way just don't understand racing history.

As for Big Brown/Rags to Riches:  she could run longer, but I don't thing she was a match for him at 10 furlongs and under.  

da3hoss,

    You are right, That's one thing I will Never do, Put down ANY Horse, Regardless, They are the true athletes, Whether it is a Claimer or the Derby, All Horses should be treated with respect, Sadly, Some people here just don't get it....

    Still think Birdstone beating out Smarty Jones was my Worst/Best experience in the Belmont...

Stardust,

     Hello there, Spot on about Slew and Secretariat...

SECRETARIAT's 2:24 doesn't impress you? And it's not a world record? Since when? It's the fastest 12 furlongs on dirt, ever!!! It is at least a FULL TWO SECONDS faster than the 2nd fastest Belmont Stakes. And the only horse that ran any better than that, that I can recall, is PROVE OUT, when he beat SECRETARIAT in 2:25-4/5. SECRETARIAT's 2:24 is phenomenal, and it's most definitely a world record. No one said that his 2:24 World Record on DIRT is a World Record on TURF. It's two entirely different things!

Honestly, people, I think the SECRETARIAT-haters are just baiting us. They don't really believe the things they're saying, they're just trying to get a rise out of us. It's working too.

Sham did finish last in that incredible race, But, IMO, It was sham that helped make Secretariat the Greatest Ever, Hands down.

Greg J.  thanks for making my point. If Sham made Secretariat the greatest...then he wasn't the greatest.

Greg J. thanks for pointing out that every time Secretariat had a hang nail he lost.  Big Brown ran on damaged and injured feet and every single race except the one he got stepped on.  Thank goodness he didn't win that race too because if he had it would have ruined the lives of the protectors of the past and the ghost of Secretariat and Ruffian.

I admit upfront I have a biased opinion on this suubject.  I was on-track for the 2004-2006 Belmonts.  Seeing any race live and in-person is a much more intense and personal experience, so it is bound to affect comparisons.

Thus, I believe the most memorable, most historic, and most talent-laden Belmont was the 2006 running. Jazil was just such a special horse, and when he hooked up with Bluegrass Cat, who by the way is easily one of the ten greatest thoroughbreds to have ever graced a track, I knew I was watching something beyond special.........

Just kidding.

Seriously, 2004 gets my vote. Others have described quite well what it was like to be at Belmont that day. The intensity of that entire day, and the electricity moving through the crowd was something I had never experienced before and haven't since. When the horses came onto the track for the post parade, and with the singing of New York New York(or was it Good Bless America? It was a man with an operatic voice), that giant grandstand was actually shaking and swaying. 120,000 people, having experienced two straight years of near-misses in the Triple Crown, had come for history, and a Smarty win or not, they knew they were going to see it.

The race itself was full of drama.  Bailey and Solis on Eddington and Rock Hard Ten pushing Smarty on the backstretch through 10 furlongs in 2:00 and 2, Smarty opening that 3-4 length lead, and then Birdstone reeling him in. I was one of the few people in the section where I was standing who knew Birdstone had Smarty before the eighth pole.  Wow that silence when Birdstone crossed the wire! I was at Del Mar when Dare and Go ended Cigar's 16 race winning streak in the 96' Pacific Classic, and that is the only silence remotely comparable.  The absence of sound when surrounded by 120,000 people was almost surreal. The experience made even more profound by the fact that, to save money that otherwise would have been spent on a hotel, I had left Michigan at 9pm the night before and driven straight until reaching Belmont at 8am that Saturday morning.

Afleet Alex was awesome in the 2005 Belmont, but the race held little historic significance.  After the 2004 Belmont, I would probably rank the 79' Belmont #2.  Had Spectacular Bid won that Belmont and the Triple Crown, he very easily might be considered the greatest horse of all time, or at least a co-1st with Secretariat. His loss affected how we rank the best of the best.

I loved the 1997 Belmont because there was a very, very good horse going for the Triple Crown,Silver Charm, and 2 very, very good horses trying to deny him, Free House and Touch Gold.  The stretch battle between Touch Gold, Silver Charm, and Free House was first-rate.  On top of it all, Silver Charm and Free House already had a well established rivalry going, and were meeting for the 6th time in 6 months.

The 1987 and 1989 Belmonts also featured some exceptional racehorses. Alysheba is one of the top 5 horses of the last 25 years, and Bet Twice was a very, very good 3 year old in his own right. However, the race was largely anti-climatic, with Alysheba out of contention by the far turn, and Bet Twice winning by open lengths. The same was true for the 89' running.

The Triple Crown series of 1989 will always have a special place in my heart. That was the year I started following thoroughbred racing, and Easy Goer, as the heir to Secretariat's crown, was the horse that drew me in. I was disappointed after the Derby and Preakness, but I was thinking the Belmont was going to be Easy Goer's redemption. Although I respected Sunday Silence, and would not have been crushed had he won the Triple Crown, I was an Easy Goer fan.  As in 87', the actual race was anti-climatic, as it was clear Easy Goer was going to win at the top of the stretch.  Finally, Easy Goer had proven himself the better horse! Or so I thought. When Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer a 3rd time in the Breeders Cup Classic, I had to concede what had become obvious, Sunday Silence was better than Easy Goer. Living in California, I was able to see Sunday Silence in person in the 1990 Californian and Hollywood Gold Cup.

The 98, 99, and 03 Belmonts were also exciting given Triple Crowns were on the line. However, I truly believed the horses going for those Triple Crowns(Real Quiet, Charismatic, Funny Cide) were probably not worthy of the crown, and were only in contention for it because they were running in average to below average crops.  This is not to say I wanted them to lose, but I was somewhat ambivalent.  As a horse race, however, there is no denying the 1998 Belmont was amazing drama.  Real Quiet and Kent D one furlong from a Triple Crown, in front by 4, but running on fumes, as his Triple Crown rival, Victory Gallop, came flying out of the pack. Nearing the wire, Kent pulls Real Quiet into the path of Victory Gallop, Victory Gallop checks ever so briefly before continuing his run, nailing Real Quiet by a nose on the wire. I had seen Real Quiet in person win the Hollywood Futurity and run 2nd in the Santa Anita Derby, so I respected his abilities. However,in the end, he was not quite good enough for racing immortality.

So,

1. 2004

2. 1979

3. 1997

4. 1998

For #5, I have to select the 2007 Belmont. The champion filly, Rags to Riches, running head and head with the champion colt, Curlin, the length of that long stretch. I had seen Rags to Riches in person win the Kentucky Oaks, but not having been a fan of the sport when Winning Colors won the Derby, I just didn't believe a filly could defeat top-level males. Rags proved me wrong, and defied over a century of history.

definately the "battle of the sexes" with Rags and Curlin. Then probably Afleet Alex and then Point Given. The most disappointing would have been Real Quiet and THE heartbreaker of the century would have to be Smarty. But I agree that Mary Lou is class.

TO:MIKE M

Are you kidding me?????????? You didn't see the pic of BB's shoe? He never even looked right while being loaded into the gate that day. I don't know how much time you spend around horses,other than betting on them,but I own three for a hobby and I CAN TELL YOU STRAIGHT OUT  certain dynamics played into BB's demise that day.

Maybe I'm confusing the 2001 Breeders Cup for the 2004 Belmont when I think of the operatic singer. I know, since the Breeders Cup of 2001 was held less than 2 months after 9/11, somesome sang "God Bless America" that day.  The 2001 Breeders Cup(particularly Tiznow's repeat in the Classic) and the 2004 Belmont were the most intense racing experiences I have ever had, so maybe my memory has fused some parts together. Most likely, someone sang New York New York when the 2004 Belmont field came out for the post parade. Whatever the song, though, I just remember that the grandstand facility was swaying as the huge crowd, many who were quite inebriated by then, sang along. I'm sure the song wasn't Sidewalks of New York because I remember having heard it sung earlier on the card before one of the supporting stakes(I was familiar with Sidewalks because that used to be the song for the Belmont during the 90s).

Jason,

I have to disagree somewhat as it concerns Point Given.  While I do believe he was an excellent colt and had arguably the strongest campaign by a 3 year old this decade(close w/Tiznow, Smarty, Curlin), he WAS NOT deserving of the Triple Crown. Being closer up than expected to the fast Derby pace that year was not  significant enough to excuse him for finishing 5th, beaten more than 11 lengths. Afterall, Point Given's stablemate, Congaree, was even closer to the pace yet  still held on to be 3rd, more than 6 lengths ahead of Point Given. What is more, Point Given had successfully pressed the pace in the Sanat Anita Derby, staying within a length or two of lone-speed Crafty CT before powering away in the stretch for a 5.5 length victory and a career best 110 Beyer.

Also, Monarchos ran a monster race that Derby. His final time of 1:59 and 4 was good enough for a 116 Beyer, a figure Point Given had not approached prior to the Derby and a figure Point Given would surpass only once in his lifetime when he received a 117 for winning the Travers. Even Point Given's Belmont, a 114, was not as strong as Monarchos' Derby, at least according to Beyers.

MZ:

Kelso was gelded early in his 3 yr old campaign and didn't make his first start until after the Triple Crown races were over, on June 22, 1960 in a 6F Allowance at Monmouth where he won by 10 in 1:10 flat. He never looked back. He went on to win 8 of his next 9 starts, including 6 major stakes races and the first of his 5 HOTY's. He set the then World Record in his last start that year in the. 1960 two mile J.C Gold Cup in 3:19.2....(and then broke his own  record in the 1964 JCGC ...the one that still stands to this day, 3:19.1). He ran and won at every distance from 6F to 2 miles.  

MZ: And by the way, Kelso also set SEVEN track records during his career.

A jockey can't win a race if the horse he's on spits the bit. KD pulled big brown up only after he had been passed by the entire field. big brown quit b4 KD pulled him up. that's no heart.

Seems to me some forget that it was some of the greattest horse people in the world that ranked Secretariat number 2. I wonder what they knew that people on this blog don't? Maybe they lived the greatness as some of us did not even reading a book!

Without a doubt, the '89 Belmont is my most memorable.  I was a 12 year-old racing fanatic and Easy Goer was *it*!  Finally having him get one over Sunday Silence, especially after the heartbreakingly close Preakness loss, was tremendously satisfying.  I can't believe 20 years have gone by since the days of the SS/Easy Goer rivalry.  I was and still remain in the Easy Goer camp, and will still argue it out with those who won't admit to his being the better horse.  ;)  The lasting image of Chris Antley holding Charismatic's leg up is my second most memorable.  Also particularly memorable for their disappointments are Alesheba and Smarty Jones's defeats.

So, Secretariat was over-rated.  What about his records that still stand?  What about the fact that Sham broke the same record in the Derby.  The second place horse beat the record.  As for his losses, if you knew the facts you would know that a couple of those races should never have been run.  Had he been run at 4 and 5, he WOULD have been Horse of the Year those years, as well.  He had an engine the likes that have never been seen since.  I'm sorry, you don't know the facts.  By the way, breeding a horse like that is a miracle.  If it were so easy, there would be more TC winners.  Ask those who spend the huge bucks chasing that dream.  THEY would admit that what Secretariat did was a miracle.  Get some history, please.

By the way, if you are looking at Belmonts in the time frame listed, Charismatic's break down with Chris Antley holding his leg was a vision I will never forget.  And you are right about Birdstone spanking Smarty Jones.  The silence was deadening.  I guess I had hoped to see a Triple Crown, but it is always great to see a good horse race and a horse with heart come through.  Amazing day, both of them.

My most memorable moment is the 1998 Belmont Stakes.

I had gone to a few Belmonts before, but this one I asked my dad if he wanted to go, and he agreed. We got stuck in horrific traffic getting into the Park from the Cross Island Parkway, and even though we were just a mile from the track, he said "forget it! Let's just turn around and go home!" I told him to calm down and we got there shortly after.

The track was packed and we finally found a spot in the 2nd level of the Grandstand, but if we left that spot would be gone. So my dad stood there the whole day and I placed the bets.

When Real Quiet entered the stretch with a 4-length lead, I have never heard a louder sound in my life then that roar of the crowd. It was unbelievable, and I was jumping and shaking, thinking I was finally going to see a Triple Crown winner. As Victory Gallop caught him at the wire, the crowd roar became a collective gasp.

As disappointed as we were, it was still a great day. My dad's gone now, and I'm so glad I didn't listen to him in the car because that day is one of my favorite memories of him.  

The last 30 yrs.?  Hmmmm.  Gee, I'd have to say Rags; but honestly, I'm still hung up on Affirmed & Alydar!  Watching the replay of their Belmont STILL makes my hair stand on end! :)

This was an easy one for me. I didn't even have to put any thought into it. Secretariat by a landslide.  I still watch it and get chills. I must say the call of that race made it equally captivating. To this day, whenever they do the Kentucky Derby coverage, they always throw that race in there for fans to watch. That is what we all wait for...that one big "shock and awe" moment and we got it with Secretariat. He really was moving like a tremendous machine!

No doubt about it. Secretariat's 30+ length win takes the cake. I have the Secretariat DVD, and every time I decide goose bumps are in order, I watch his Belmont again and again.

"12 lengths....14 lengths. He's running like a tremendous machine!"

Truly unforgettable.

The jockey was telling the horse not to fall down, and Penny Tweedy was telling the jockey in her own mind to please don't fall off now.

Talk about a horse running in the zone.

Well, since you asked, I can't help but give you my most memorable Belmont:

Pgm  Horse              Jockey            Win   Place  Show

12   Sarava             Prado          142.50   50.00 22.40

8   Medaglia d'Oro     Desormeaux              16.00 10.60

5   Sunday Break       Stevens                        7.10

$2 Exacta 12-8             2,454.00

$2 Trifecta 12-8-5        25,209.00

$2 Superfecta 12-8-5-11  145,334.00

Sorry if I must give an example based solely on numeric gain, but I think this was my best handicapping decision ever to piok

Sarava to win the Belmont. I have to thank War Emblem to this day for making me think that the race would go to a closer , and there was Sarava staring me in the face. I think I was the only person celebrating at the OTB that day, as I noticed a sudden quiet across the floor. I'll never forget it. It does seem somewhat timely to also remember the wonderful Medalglia D'Oro running second that day, with him being the incredible sire of Rachel Alexandra.

As great as Secretariat's was, and I saw it on CBS...I think there were two or three that had a lot riding on them and were memorable, if not epic battles...How 'bout Silver Charm v Free House/Touch Gold.....or the Affirmed/Alydar miraculous throwdown....but the Belmont I remember most was '98, Real Quiet drawing away......and getting absolutely tagged in the last inch of the race---the agony of defeat, indeed!....Jason I think if the filly goes she wins by ten.....

I'm still in awe of Secretariat moving "like a tremendous machine" those 31 lengths ahead.  One of the most famous photos, if not THE most famous photo, in all of sports.

TO CITATION: Re your 21 May 2009 9:44am post, it doesn't speak well of you. Puhleeeze...now you're faulting Secretariat for horses who were never entered against him? How can anyone (anyone honest, that is) blame a horse for what the owners of other horses decide to do or not?

Your post either displays your ignorance or willingness to mislead. Let's start with Dahlia. Although American-bred, Dahlia was a turf specialist who raced in France, England and Ireland in 1972 and 1973, with the exception of one race. Back then, the premier turf race in the United States was the Washington D.C. International, run in the fall at Laurel Racecourse. Dahlia was shipped over and won the 1973 running. She was then sent back to France. She raced in England and France about half of her four-year-old season, but did come back to the U.S. and won several important turf stakes that summer and fall. Dahlia was the European champion three-year-old in 1973, UK Horse of the Year in 1973 and 1974, and U.S. champion turf horse in 1974.

So, in your bizarro world, Secretariat is to be faulted for never having raced against a filly who was not even in the United States. Okey dokey.

Regarding Desert Vixen, as was (and still is) common in U.S. racing, her owner, Harry Mangurian, and her trainer, Thomas Root, raced her only against other fillies and mares for most of her career. In 1973, she won the Alabama Stakes, Delaware Oaks, Monmouth Oaks, Test Stakes, Gazelle Handicap and Beldame Stakes, and was champion three-year-old filly. She earned champion older filly or mare honors in 1974, when she won the Beldame again, and also finished second to Dahlia in the Washington D.C. International in her only race on grass. Yet, in your world, Secretariat is to be faulted because he never ran against Desert Vixen even though she was never entered in any race he ever ran.

Yeppers...I'm sure going to value anything you have to say about racing. (eyes rolling)

Probably becoming a "dead thread", but, LDP, you have written some pertinent points about the difficulty of the Belmont.  In addition, I would add Cordero's comment.  He said one of the biggest problems facing a jockey in the Belmont is the back stretch.  So many owners and trainers, usually, drum the distance factor into the heads of jockeys, that the jockey becomes overly concerned about moving a horse in the back stretch.  Couple that with the eeriness of being far from the crowd noise and the back stretch becomes surreal.  Pace can become lost and that one pace horse, you referred to, has a better chance than the run too early or too late guys and gals. And now back to Kent D for moving too early on Real Quiet or not at all on another.

LMaris, thanks for mentioning Free House running with Silver Charm - Will always remember them "running on the engine" locked together in 24s around the track.

Sorry to bend the rules, but I can't even say "Belmont" without thinking Secretariat.  Nothing can compare to that race. I feel sorry for every race fan who didn't get to see that incredible event.  But the day Smarty Jones got defeated was equally memorable -- at the other end of the emotional spectrum.

Excellent thoughts on Belmont, Bill.  Though I'd watched it on TV many times, I attended my first race there last year for BB and was just blown away by that track.  It is intimidating to say the least (besides being a wonderful facility).  Once I physically saw those turns and that final looooooong stretch, Secretariat's run became even more impressive.  Some great thoughts on what kind of run wins that whopper of a race.  Bird has so far shown himself to be that explosive, come from behind horse but his pedigree is all about that mile and a half.  Do you think he can do it?

Lmaris

HA!  Big Brown off steroids is not the super horse anymore.  Rags could beat him and Curlin most certainly could have.  :)

GregJ  Not only do I own and race thoroughbreds but I have asked many trainers and not one said the loose shoe got him beat. I have had that happen to one of my horses and actually won so I do have some experience with this. BB may have had other issues that caused that decacle but the loose show was not one of them.

The only Belmont I've been to in person was the one with the greatest stretch duel I've seen--Rags to Riches and Curlin.  I bought a win ticket on Rags and a win/show ticket with Rags 1st and Curlin 2nd.  That was the greatest Belmont I've seen since Secretariat's Belmont.  The stretch duel was absolutely awesome and you could just see that Rags would not yield and Curlin did at the very end.  It was a fabulous HORSE RACE, not just a filly winning a Classic.  Seeing those two come around the turn to the homestretch was breathtaking.

ONE MORE THING, THINKING ABOUT WHAT CITATION SAID. I LIVED 2 BLOCKS FROM BELMONT FOR TWO YEARS AND ATTENDED RACES FOR LIKE 5. THE RUMOR AROUND THE AREA AND MAYBE JASON OR STEVE CAN LOOK IN TO THIS WAS THAT WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING BELMONT PARK, THE SURVEYOR WHO MEASURED THE OVAL MISCALCULATE THE 1 1/2 MILES, HE ACTUALLY OVER CALCULATED AND HAD LIKE 15 TO 2O YARDS LONGER DISTANCE. THEY FOUND OUT AFTER THE RAILING AND ALL THE TRACK HAD BEEN DEVELOPED SO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN COSTLY TO RE DUE THE DISTANCE. IF THIS IS TRUE THAT IS WHY TIMES ARE SLOWER AT THIS TRACK, IT IS A BIT LONGER THAN 1 1/2 MILES WHICH MAKES THE BELMONT ALOT MORE INTERESTING.

Jason,

    I Like Carolyn's Cat to Take Game Face and Any Limit in the Vagrancy !!!, Who do you like?(I know, Small Field!)...

    Also, Love to see Brass Hat Win, Sharbat Also, and a sleeper, Cat Island in race 5, Sunday at Churchill.

No question - it was Secretariat!

Two others with diametrically different results: The Affirmed - Alydar duel and Secretariat actually accelerating in the last 2 furlongs devastating the field and astonishing those watching.

You can't compare turf world records to dirt turf records as someone did. No one has come close to Secretariat's dirt record thank you very much. Not to mention, he set that after notching two other record performances in the most difficult feat in racing.

You don't judge a horse by race record alone, too, as many have. If that were the case, then one might argue Pepper's Pride is the greatest. Obviously that is not the case.

I can't stand when people put down Secretariat, especially when they make no sense. I'd like to give a high-five to all those who defended his greatness. Thank you!

I voted for Rags-what a feeling in the stands that day-but Alex is right up there.  That was some powerful move!  I shouted "NO...OOOO!" in 04 as the Bird passed Smarty.  Someone mentioned 88 and Risen Star's feel good win.  On a personal level-Swale in 1984,  his Derby win vindicated on a stifling day--and the tragedy we did not see coming; what might have been.

What about Risen Star in '88?

MikeM your comments are silly and just plain nuts !!! Big Brown won every single race crushing everyone except for the race where he got stepped on and his shoes and nails dislodged.  Everyone has seen the pictures of the shoe hanging off and you still refuse to believe that was the cause of his inability to run the way he did before and after the race. Its called an accident and they happen and its a shame it took place in such an important race but I think you can look at ALL OF HIS OTHER RACES where his shoes were on his feet for evidence that it WAS THE SHOE that messed him up that day because every other race he ran in his career he won except for the one with the hanging shoe.  Get over it.

So now we're supposed to start faulting SECRETARIAT because he never faced DESERT VIXEN or DAHLIA? What in the world is going on around here? Just an FYI for the Haters...on the same day that SECRETARIAT beat one of the most brilliant fields ever assembled, in the Marlboro Cup, winning in 1:45-2/5 DESERT VIXEN won the Beldame Stakes in 1:46-2/5. So we can lay that one to rest. DAHLIA never showed up to race against SECRETARIAT either, folks, so what can you say?

I was amazed at the person who posted a list of some of the best horses from the 1970 crop and dismissed them all with a comment like "these are your good horses?" Wow! What a thing to say. The crop of 1970 contained some of the most wonderful and amazing and accomplished runners this sport has seen, and some people can summarily dismiss all those horses with one internet blog posting?

Seriously...if some of you are so contemptuous of horse racing's greatest stars why are you fans of this sport?

Effy, Kent D did not pull Big Brown up after the whole field passed him.  I was standing right there.  Brown was running 3rd when Kent started yanking him sideways toward the grandstands.  All the other horses were, of course, at that point in the race accelerating and pretty bunched together.  It was really a dangerous thing to do.  And it took only a second for all those accelerating horses to pass him.  I'm not saying Big Brown would have won for sure.  I'm only saying he didn't get to run the entire race so we'll never know what would have happened.  That is what is frustrating.

I also don't like any horse to be put down or criticized, especially for things totally beyond their control.  The horses are the heart and soul of it all; they are all deserving of nothing but praise.

Someone, commented on the silence at Belmont when Smarty lost - I wasn't there, I was at a Smarty Party.  It was silent there too.  But I was at Smarty's Preakness and the power of energy and love for that horse was overwhelming.  I have never felt such huge waves of joy and excitement anywhere else in my entire life.

Even though you tried, Jason, it's pretty obvious that Secretariat not only can't be left out of any discussion of the Belmont - he really is the Belmont for so many of us.  I never got to see him in person, but I also  have that DVD and it never fails to send chills through me and bring tears to my eyes, never.

Predict,

     That sure was one heck of a Belmont for you, Nice !

MikeM,

     IMO, Still think it was the shoe on Big Brown, But Everyone has their own opinion, I guess no one will ever know except Big Brown himself.  Still would have liked to see him take the Triple Crown home(For his sake, Not his connections, not a big fan of theirs!)...

Off Subject,

     Just a heads up regarding my favorite,  Nicanor, If everything goes right on his next race June 17 on the turf at Delaware Park, He will going to Colonial Downs in Virginia for the second leg of the "Turf" Triple Crown, The $750,000 Virginia Derby(Grade 2).  This guy is going to be a Turf Monster...

N.Y. Times Article Today:

www.nytimes.com/.../23racing.html

Thanks Jason(It is kind of related to talking Triple Crown, "Turf Triple Crown", lol)...

Terri V: I don't like MTB in the Belmont for one reason: pace.  If Rachel enters she's lonesome on the lead and Calvin will slow it down as much as possible, unless someone else [Charitable Man?] decides to push her.  I really like Charitable Man since he is by a Belmont winner and is a fresh horse who loves Belmont.  Having KM for a trainer isn't bad either.  MTB's problem is that he needs a realistic pace to have a chance.  If there is one he definitely has a chance.

I don't hate Secretariat, I just don't think he is the greatest horse of all time. I wasn't faulting him for never facing Desert Vixen or Dahlia, I was responding to Draynay, who was saying the 1970 foal crop was weak. My brother's favorite horse is Secretariat, but he thinks Man O' War was just as good, and thinks Citation was extemely close. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

My heart was broken when Spectacular Bid lost the Belmont!  I don't know if the story about the pin was the truth, but Delp said he was dead lame when they got him back to the barn!  I saw him win the World Playground stakes at Atlantic City as a two year old, by 10 lengths, and I followed him faithfully for the rest of his career!  He won 26 out of 30 races in his career, and was ridden by Shoemaker as a four year old, and never lost!  As a three year old he ran 2nd by 3/4 lengths to the great Affirmed!  Shoemaker said the Bid was the best horse he ever rode!  Quite a statement!

Jason:

Most definitely I think Point Given was a better overall horse than Monarchos. However, Monarchos was better on Derby day, and that is all that really matters as it concerns Point Given "deserving" a Triple Crown. To win a Triple Crown, one horse has to be better than all other horses entered for 3 consecutive races.  Point Given wasn't; in fact, Point Given was only 5th best on that one day when the Derby was run. The way I look at the Triple Crown, if a horse wasn't good enough to win all 3 of the races, then it wasn't deserving of the Crown. This includes Spectacular Bid.  

Perhaps where we disagree is with the meaning of the term "deserving". Like I said, I look at a horse being deserving of the Triple Crown if, and ONLY if, it wins each of the three races.  "Deserving", for me, is not about would've, could've, or should've, nor is it about pure tlaent and overall race record.  Being deserving of the Crown is all about "getting er done" in all 3 races.  This, even though I believe Spectacular Bid was a better overall horse than half of the actual Triple Crown winners. And no, I do not think I am being contradictory.

By the way, I think that Congaree was better as a 4 and 5 year old than Point Given or any other horse in that 2001 Triple Crown series was at their peak(particularly between 7 and 9 furlongs. At 10+ furlongs, Point Given as a 3 year old may have been better than Congaree as an older horse).  Some of this is simply the fact that top older horses are generally better than top 3 year olds, and horses like Point Given and Monarchos were not campaigned past their 3 year old seasons.  

As for Congaree, he closed his 4 year old season winning the 2002 gr.1 Cigar Mile easily by 5 in 1:33 flat, with a 120 Beyer.  He then went on to win the San Pasqual and San Antonio with Beyers over 115, and lost the Big Cap' by a neck giving weight(that darned handicap system again)to repeat winner Milwaukee Brew with a 116 Beyer. Over the rest of the year he won the gr.1 Carter at 7 furlongs by 3.5 lengths over that year's Eclipse champion sprinter, Aldebaran, with another big Beyer, won the gr.1 Hollywood Gold Cup at 10 furlongs by 3 with a 116 Beyer, and repeated in the gr.1 Cigar Mile by open lengths w/ another 120 Beyer. All this after having won the 2001 Wood Memorial over Monarchos and the gr.1 Swaps Stakes at age 3.

In my opinion, Congaree and Medlagia d' Oro were two of the most underrated horses of this decade.  These two excellent speed horses hooked up in a speed duel in the 2003 Breeders Cup Classic, running the first mile in 1:34, setting things up for Pleasanty Perfect(who ran very well in his own right and won over $7 million).  Without the other, Congaree and Medalgia d' Oro would have been very difficult to have run down.    

Mike S.,

    You are so right, That crop of 1970's horses were a solid field in their own right.

     Marlboro Cup was an awesome field, It was funny, It was supposed to be a Match race between Secretariat and Riva Ridge, But the rules didn't allow it, You couldn't have a match race with betting if the horses had the same owner, so Jack Landry decided to have a full race with top horses go in the Marlboro Cup,        

    What a Field, You Had "Secretariat", "Riva Ridge", West Coast champion "Cougar", the Santa Anita Handicap winner, "Kennedy Road", America's top turf horse, "Onion", "Annihilate Oem", and "Key to the Mint". An Incredible Field!  It was an Incredible race, The Funny thing is that it did end up being a Match Race Between "Secretariat" and "Riva Ridge" at the end with "Secretariat" winning by 3 1/2 lengths,  in a new world record time of 1:45 2/5 for 1 1/8 miles on dirt.

   A Great Race, A Great Field, And The Best Ever, "Secretariat"...

Draynay,

    Your lack of respect for this great generation of horses is amazing.  You should do like I did, Why don't you do your homework, and study some videos from the 70's, Read some books, Educate yourself on this Era, Then you might come to the conclusion that this was a great era for the sport, rather then just dismiss them with no knowledge of what you are talking about.  For you to say, and I quote, "Secretariat was a great horse but to rank him second all time makes him OVERRATED", Well, that to me explains your complete lack of knowledge regarding the great "Secretariat"(IMO)...

1973 Marlboro Cup:

www.youtube.com/watch

Lol... Greg J how old are you ? My first Kentucky Derby was 1969. I have been to more races over the years then you could count.  I lived at Gulfstream and Hialeah for YEARS. I was THERE in 1977 when Seattle Slew won the Flamingo Stakes and put on a show most will NEVER forget.  So please stop with the nonsense. Let me clue you in Greg if the tracks were scraped as thin as they were in the 1970's we would have new track records every month.  I have always said Secretariat was a great horse but to rate him over Citation and Kelso and Native Dancer is just plain silly.  The horse never raced past 3 and never beat the top fillies of the day. His 3 Triple Crown performances are as good as Citations his 3 year old career does not compare to many when you include his 3 loses. Don't ask me to read up Greg unlike you I was there when history was being made in the 1970's.

  Thanks, Jason for this question-it's been so great reading the comments on here.  I agree with those who said 2004. I think the fact Smarty Jones was undefeated going into the Belmont, plus what happened to his first trainer, and that he almost died from an accident, caused many people to be interested and care about him. I live near his home track, and got to see him exercise with the thousands of other fans who showed up that morning. He brought so much excitement to that track, and the surrounding area- he was thought of as a star. People who never cared about horseracing were interested and wanted to talk about him. I remember the buttons and t-shirts that were around. The excitement leading up to the Derby was replaced with Smarty-mania for the Belmont. I went with a friend to the track to watch it; it was  being shown on a giant screen, news crews and his fans filling the place. You could feel the excitement building as time got near for the race. Whenever even Smarty's name got mentioned, people cheered. It became quiet as the race began, until Stewart asked him to go at the 3/4 pole, then most were screaming, "Go Smarty, Go Smarty.." I stayed quiet with heart pounding,  knowing the finish line is what matters, especially in the Belmont. When Birdstone caught him and the race was over, silence by all. No way, this couldn't be.

   I went to Smarty's retirement party for him and the fans. It was so good to get to see the special horse one last time at his track, the horse who brought so much excitement to our area, who lifted so many during his amazing run. It was very sad, watching the end of something no one was ready to let go of yet... over too soon.    

I think that when you get to the very top horses, the greatest of the great, it's really hard to pick a definitive "best." Some people are going to choose SECRETARIAT or MAN O' WAR, while other will choose CITATION, SPECTACULAR BID, DR. FAGER, SEATTLE SLEW, AFFIRMED, SWAPS, NATIVE DANCER, FOREGO, COUNT FLEET, SEABISCUIT or DAMASCUS. And from the looks of things it's hard to change a person's opinion. In any event, I respect all the greats of our sport.

I completely agree with the author on Point Given. He will always be my favorite racehorse and I am so sad that he was denied the Triple Crown. His Belmont is still my favorite race that I've ever seen...what a powerful horse!!!

TO:DRAYNAY

We don't always agree everytime,but I told Mike M about the same thing that you did regarding BB. You are on point! Also,enjoyed what you said the other day about S. Bid. Well put!

TO:CITATION

He was one hell of a horse. I wasn't around then,but everything I heard regarding him. Question? Some state he wasn't the same after he got hurt,I don't buy it. What's your opinion?

TO:TERRI V

I totally w/your point of idiots "slamming horses" when they try so hard. Makes me sick!

I wouldn't say that Pepper's Pride is the greatest, because her competition was not any good. To me, greatness is judged by a combination of record, class of competition, and time records. These factors, when combined, select three horses as the best; Man O' War, Citation, and Colin, with Secretariat, Native Dancer, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Kelso, and Swaps in a group right behind them. If you think Secretariat is the best, that's fine, just make sure you research the accomplishments of the many other great racers of the world.

1.) Rags To Riches

2.) rags To Riches

3.) Rags To Riches

Mike Relva, I think that Citation wasn't as good after his injury. Allowance horses could beat him after he was fired for osselets, but the best horses in the country couldn't challenge him before it. Though I think he should never have been raced after his injury, the fact that he ran so admirably after the injury is a big contributing factor to why he's my favorite horse. He was 27 for 29 before the injury, 5 for 16 afterwards. That's my opinion on the matter. If you think differently though, that's fine.

Tough crowd. Slew is my favorite of all time. In the long shadow of BIG RED easy to not stand out. I am old, some of you must be ancient. On a given day the best horse doesn't always win but in my lifetime Big Red has no equal. My vote is for RTR in the Belmont.

After all is said and done, these wonderful animals light a fire in all of us.Real Quiet's loss was very memorable, as was Smarty 's, both heart-breakers! But, Big Brown being pulled up by his jockey left me almost bereft...we can not know what he may have done. I do not care what his connections said or did..it was the fire in BB's eyes and his dominance on the track that I found to be the essence of this sport.

I too believe Secretariat is

one the all time greats, but perhaps a bit over-rated. I base my opinion on facts. He did lose 5 races.I will throw out the first maiden race, and the DQ in the Champagne.

There was no excuse to lose to Wood (to Angle Light and Sham at equal weights). There was no excuse to lose the Whitney (Onion at equal weights). And there

was certainly no excuse to lose the 1 1/2 mile Woodward to Prove Out by 4 1/2 while actually GETTING SEVEN POUNDS! (Of course you could blame it on the greatest trainer of my lifetime, H. Allen Jerkens, but that's another story). Because of that defeat, I firmly believe that Secs trainer Lucien Laurin ducked a rematch with Prove Out a month later in the biggest and most important handicap race at the time, the 2 Mile JCGC. (Probably a good move

since Prove Out won that JCGC in 3:20 flat...the fastest 2 mile JCGC by any horse ever not named Kelso, who did it faster in 3 of his 5 victories...3:19.2,

3:19.4, 3:19.1 (still a world record on dirt). The Chief had Prove Out in spectacular form that Autumn of '73.

So I base my opinion on Sec did lose those 3 races, and NEVER carrying and winning with high imposts or spotting weight.

Also, his record at stud was less than spectacular...certainly not up to two colts I would place ahead of him...Man'O'War and Native Dancer,both only

losing ONCE (20 for 21 and 21 for 22, respectively).

Secretariat WAS the greatest horse that ever lived for 6 weeks in the Spring of 1973...there is no doubt about that. The times of those three TC races make that very clear. But the rest of his career, while superb, was not quite up to that level.

Jason,

I had exacta and tri, but not the super, but still a very good day. I always included Stevens when he was riding in big races, for the tri and wish I had more respect for Magic W.'s Preakness, as that would have been one nice super.

Mike Relva...I have a dvd with an interview with Eddie Arcaro from the 70s where he talsk about Citation. I'm sure you know they only brought Cy back because the owner wanted him to be the first horse to win a million dollars, even though Mr Wright had passed on they raced him until he made a million and then retired him. But Eddie said that when they retired him he was back to his old self and maybe BETTER. I got the distinct impression that Eddie would have liked to keep going with him. Who knows he could have made 2 million! I think he may have been the VERY best, he just wasn't as spectacular to look at as Man O'War and Secretariat.

SECRETARIAT had no excuse for losing those three races. OK. And BIG BROWN had no excuse being 20 lengths behind DA' TARA at the top of the stretch before his jockey eased him, in an attempt to avoid humiliation. SEATTLE SLEW had no excuse for losing the Swaps Stakes by 16 lengths or the Patterson Handicap. AFFIRMED had no excuse for losing the Malibu or San Fernando. EASY GOER had no excuse losing to SUNDAY SILENCE (three times). RACHEL ALEXANDRA had no business losing those three races. STARDOM BOUND should have won last time. And on and on it goes...I guess I'm pointing out that most horses lose, and even the greatest horses lose from time to time, and it really doesn't diminish their greatness.

You can't win 'em all.

Since when did this blog become trying to decipher the best horse of all time?? That is an impossible task and one that is virtually opinion based only. To diminish the highlights of each of these horses "moments" is ridiculous. Horses are athletes. They have their peak performances and they have their losses. I can't recall any of the great "human" althetes that won every time. They have all had defeats. Some might say that Dale Earnhardt was the greatest race car driver who ever lived. Did he suffer defeats??? Many. When we witness greatness it is one race at a time. How can you not love every one of them? How can you not love the fire in BB's eyes last year? His spectacular Derby run? Funny all people remember is that he was pulled up in the Belmont. To some, Secretariat stands out. Was it because he won everytime??? No. It was because when he was on, he was magic. Just like the Bid,Slew,Dr.Fager,Silvercharm,Affirmed and of course so many more that would take all day to list. They all have their place in history and in our hearts.

Dray...You must have been about two at your first Kentucky Derby in 1969. My guess is your parents started taking you then. Just a guess.

I see many of you listing Rags vs. Curlin.  Although I do agree it was a great race, visually, Rags had an advantage.  Not saying she isn't a wonderful horse, but Curlin was entering the third leg of a grueling triple crown.  He just won the Preakness after a stretch-duel with Street Sense.  Rags, built-solid for the Belmont by A.P. Indy and well-rested, came in with an obvious advantage.  Just something that should be considered when you choose to leave other options out.  At least several of these other races included upsets (or victories) by horses who raced the entire triple crown series.

Saratoga you have to careful giving all those Secretariat fans facts.  They don't want to hear it and are convinced he is the greatest horse ever even though the facts do not support this.  Seattle Slew and The Bid had better careers but you can't write it or say it unless you want the history protectors to come out.

But for what its worth you are right he was great but when compared to other greats overrated.

Jason,

I could easily agree with your choice of Point Given, whose Belmont was a true tour de force. However you have already described that one so well. I shall go for the non-descript Belmont of 2000, won by Commendable. It was the most amazing strategic race I ever saw, choreographed by D. Wayne Lukas and Pat Day. That year there was no triple crown on the line. Commendable was the most unlikely winner as his sire was Gone West, who could carry his speed maybe to a mile and a sixteenth on a good day. So how could anyone ever bet on Commendable in the mile and a half Belmont Stakes? Pat Day kept him on or near the lead and just jogged around the track. His fractions were slower than a claimer in Ohio - 6 furlongs were around 1.14 and change - and he had just enough left in the stretch to win the race in one of the slowest times in recent memory. I still cannot believe that Alex Solis, on the favorite, Aptitude, let them get away and steal the race. Nevertheless you have to give credit to Lukas and Day for winning with a very unlikely horse.

I agree Saratoga AJ.

The comments posted by me are not remotely related to what I submitted. Possibably I stepped on someone using the same display name.I will not submit again.

Draynay,

      FYI, I am 42, I too have been to plenty of Races in my lifetime, And have educated myself on the Horses that were before my time, I will drop the Secretariat argument, We just have a HUGE difference of opinion, One thing we do agree on is Big Brown's loose shoe being the reason him losing the Belmont. I love Big Brown, but I still wouldn't mention him in the same breath as  Secretariat.  Rather then go on and on, I will leave it at that, At least we agree on one thing, lol...

I think it's much easier to get excited about a horse's accomplishments after he has had a long career. All these horses that come and go, and disappear after 10 starts or less, are harder to assess. Lots of horses look good early on in their career (COPELAN and FLY SO FREE immediately come to mind) but as they race on and on their records aren't quite as impressive. You can extrapolate all you want that BIG BROWN or RACHEL ALEXANDRA are "the greatest of all time" from a limited number of starts, but you sure can't prove it because you have no idea how these runners would do if they raced at 4, at 5 or even at 6 years of age. I can safely say that SUSAN'S GIRL (63 starts) and TIZNA (57 starts) were great mares because they proved it over a long period of time. And I can make the same argument for FOREGO, KELSO, JOHN HENRY, COUGAR II, etc., because they raced year after year in top form. These horses who have one great year (like MINESHAFT, or BIG BROWN and RACHEL ALEXANDRA) might seem better than they are because they've only raced a few times. Let them race 50 times and see how great they are. Actually, forget 50 times! Let them race 20 or 25 times, and I think you'll see that they aren't quite "the greatest of all time." But these horses are never going to race for a long time because the owners have to take advantage of absurd stallion fees and ridiculous yearling prices. Horses are worth more in the breeding shed than they are on the racetrack, which is totally and absolutely backwards.

Jason,

    How about that 8 year old BRASS HAT !!!!, Amazing....

Rags & Curlin. Pre cut off date - Affirmed

Karen2,

    Your comment at 23 May 2009 8:55 AM, Perfectly Stated....

Saratoga AJ,

    When you say Secretariat had no excuses for his losses, Do me a favor, Scroll up to "For Big Red's" comment (For Big Red 21 May 2009 2:42 AM), I believe "Big Red" states it perfectly and honestly about Secretariat's Defeats(IMO), Thanks...

Spectacular Bid was the best hoss I ever saw.....best filly?.....ran today.....

....death.....taxes.....Zenyatta's kick.....

Maybe SPECTACULAR BID had a better career than SECRETARIAT...and that's a big "maybe." But SPECTACULAR BID surely belongs in the Top Five of racing's all time greats, along with SECRETARIAT.

SEATTLE SLEW absolutely did not have a better career than SECRETARIAT. In fact, SECRETARIAT's career was much better. SEATTLE SLEW only raced three times at two, while SECRETARIAT finished first in 7 of 8 races. SECRETARIAT set track records and a world record in his Triple Crown bid, while SEATTLE SLEW recorded average/decent winning times, although his Belmont was substantially slower than SECRETARIAT's. And after the Triple Crown was over SEATTLE SLEW came back to be beaten by 16 lengths in J.O. TOBIN's amazing romp in the Swaps Stakes, and was finished for the year. After SECRETARIAT won, in 2:24, a feat that has been unmatched before or after, he came back in 3 weeks and won at Arlington by 9 lengths, and then he ran another five times, winning three more times. SECRETARIAT didn't run at four. SEATTLE SLEW won two allowance races, finished 2nd in two stakes, and won the Marlboro Cup (over AFFIRMED) Woodward Stakes (over EXCELLER) and Stuyvesant.

I can't give SEATTLE SLEW or SPECTACULAR BID (who is better than SLEW) credit over SECRETARIAT for what they accomplished at the age of four, because SECRETARIAT didn't race at four. If you judge them by what they did at 2 and 3 you have to give SECRETARIAT credit for being the best, at least to that point (the end of their 3 year old year).

Mike S. STOP IT !  Seattle Slew WON the TRIPLE CROWN UNDEFEATED.  That alone puts him ahead of Secretariat and The BID was a perfect 9 for 9 and HOY at 4 something Secretariat never did.  Best 3 year old season .... NO ! Best career... NO so best what for Secretariat ? Both SEATLLE SLEW AND THE BID went on to successful 4 year old seasons.  The fact that Secretariat did not go on leaves him out of the discussion.

maybe a bit off topic[best since '79] how 'bout what Mr.Woody stephens did in the '80's[5 in a row] I saw the '85 running, and again not saying it was the best, but what Stephens' did with Conquistador Cielo may never be matched...and he was an approachable guy who enjoyed "mixing it up" with the bettors!

I wish Blood Horse would give a page to "Arguing Horses" so that simple questions like this one don't get bogged down in egos.  It's horse racing folks, we've all got our favorite horses and calling others ignorant is inappropriate on this blog.  

Then when Draynay is emphatic in his righteousness, he'd have a place to go on and on.

K.I.S.S. it here, and I'll say it again, my most memorable Belmont was Secretariat(even though I saw Seattle Slew at the Derby in '77 and fell totally in love with a horse I thought could do no wrong).  

Mike S:

There is one problem to your opinion of Spectacular Bid.

Usually these "who's best" debates don't include actual races against one another. However, you must remember Slew, Affirmed and Bid did have a couple of races that are very revealing.

Slew beat Affirmed quite easily twice in the weight for age Malboro Invitational by 3 lengths  (the first meeting ever of Triple Crown winners)  Then a year later Affirmed was a pulling away 3/4 length victor over Bid in the weight for age JCGC. You can't ignore these facts.  

Saratoga AJ I disagree with you about Big Red....He was great for six weeks???...He was HOY as a two year old!....He won two Gr 1's on turf by a mile....won the Marlboro Cup big....the Arlington race big.....he was a big horse that threw in clunkers but he was just a great horse.....more than six weeks worth...

now here we got mr. lukas saying "they should change the distances of all the triple crown races, nobody gives a damm about 1 1/2 horses anymore" well lets make it easy for hitters in baseball lets move the fences in 30 ft, lets make the nfl easier and instead of 100 yard fields lets make them 50,and while we are at it lets drop that nba hoop a foot an a half . see how ya sound there coach, hey listen i got all the respect in the world for d.wayne & for what he did i put him right in with woody, laz, charlie,jerkins,& the jones but hell this game was always about tradition & me being an alumni of harbor view farm i take offense of trying to cheapen anything affirmed or the other triple crown winners had to endure to win the triple crown which by the wayis supposed to be the hardest thing in all of sports to do............its gotta be hard on d.wayne not winning like they old days, but man just because you aint making headlines no more dont cry about it to the press with foolishness about changing of all things the triple crown

SEATTLE SLEW winning the Triple Crown undefeated doesn't put him "ahead of SECRETARIAT" because while SEATTLE SLEW was a delicate 2 year old, winning 3 of 3, and only one stakes win, SECRETARIAT was dancing every dance, finishing first in 7 of 8 races, which is a far more demanding schedule.

At the age of 2 SEATTLE SLEW won the Champagne Stakes. At the age of 2 SECRETARIAT won the Sanford, Hopeful, Belmont Futurity, Champagne (disqualified), Laurel Futurity and Garden State Stakes. Whew!

At 3, prior to the Triple Crown, Seattle Slew won an allowance, and the Flamingo Stakes and Wood Memorial. SECRETARIAT won the Bay Shore and Gotham before finishing third in the Wood Memorial. SEATTLE SLEW swept the Triple Crown, undefeated, winning all three races in average time: 2:02-1/5, 1:54-2/5 and 2:29-3/5. SECRETARIAT, as we all know, won in 1:59-2/5, 1:53-2/5 and 2:24. So SEATTLE SLEW, while great and brilliant and wonderful, was nowhere near SECRETARIAT.

When the Triple Crown was over SEATTLE SLEW got blasted by J.O. TOBIN by 16 lengths! And he was done for the year. But not SECRETARIAT! He was back in 3 weeks (after a 2:24 1-1/2 mile blow-out that was the best race in history!) winning by 9 lengths at Arlington in 1:47! Then came the 2nd to ONION, the Marlboro Cup win (against the greats RIVA RIDGE and COUGAR II) in a world record 1:45-2/5, the 2nd in the Woodward, and the wins in the Man O' War Stakes and Canadian International.

At the end of their 3 year old seasons SEATTLE SLEW had a record of 9 wins from 10 starts, while SECRETARIAT had 16 wins from 21 starts (actually finishing first 17 times). SECRETARIAT raced more than twice as often, set track records and a world record, while SEATTLE SLEW had had one track record, I believe (7 furlongs in 1:20-2/5 at Hialeah). There really is no comparison, SECRETARIAT wins, in a landslide. And SECRETARIAT never got trounced (by 16 lengths!) like SEATTLE SLEW got beat by J.O. TOBIN

As for the fact that SECRETARIAT didn't come back to race at 4 surely you aren't holding that against him and saying that he had a bad 4 year old season, are you? He didn't have a 4 year old racing season!

As for SEATTLE SLEW's 4 year old season, it was fantastic. Although 2 of his wins were allowances, he did win 3 stakes and finished 2nd in two others. He beat a very tired and worn out AFFIRMED, twice, and why shouldn't he have? After all, SEATTLE SLEW had a very easy four year old year and was fresh as a daisy while AFFIRMED had danced every dance and needed a rest.

SPECTACULAR BID lost to AFFIRMED the next year, and that's fine by me. Both were great horses. I think SPECTACULAR BID's 4 year old season, however, was the best 4 year old season a horse has had.

It seems that the 4 year old had an advantage over the 3 year old in each of these races. A 4 year old SEATTLE SLEW beat a 3 year old AFFIRMED, and a 4 year old AFFIRMED beat a 3 year old SPECTACULAR BID. I don't think anyone was going to beat a 4 year old SPECTACULAR BID, however.

To me, SECRETARIAT, SEATTLE SLEW and SPECTACULAR BID, along with AFFIRMED and FOREGO are great horses, phenomenal in fact, and I would put them in the Top 10 of all time. And I don't intend to diminsh any of these horses. They're the best of the best!

TO:DRAYNAY

I think Secretariat should have raced at four.

TO:GREG J

How are you? I'm proud of Brass Hat and love him,but I'm always on "pins and needles" when he races because of his legs.

"Get to the wire, Kent!" I yelled in 1998. The only point Real Q was behind that day was at the finish, one jump later he was back in front.  I messed up and bet Real Q over Victory G over all in the tri and didn't reverse it.

Almost as memorable was the 20 to win and place I had on Birdstone and the last minute of that race, as I started in a low voice and built up to yelling and yelling, "C'mon Edgar, c'mon EDGAR!"

Mike S,

    Slew also caught some kind of virus or viral infection if i am correct, which is what finished him for the year, so you can't hold that against him. When he came back he beat Affirmed twice and Exeller. If you can name one other horse that came back after being as sick as he was go ahead and name it. I doubt there many or even any to come back and beat the horses he did. Now i'm not taking anyones side, but to blame a horse for missing the rest of his season because he was extemely ill isn't right, especially when a horse comes back to do the things he did.

Thanks Greg J....

It amazes me the arguments people get into about the great horses of our past. It is virtually impossible to determine who the best is because they will never race against eachother against the same competition, the same exact track conditions,the same jockeys riding etc.......It is an endless debate with no winners.  

At the end of the day each of these horses have provided us with memorable moments and greatness in their own right. I am also (almost) 42 and have been watching since I can remember. I have studied all of the greats. Read almost all the books available and watched all the you tube videos over and over. Just getting ready to read Sunday Silence.....What a ride everytime.

since 1988 i had easy goer ,hansel,editors note,lemon drop kid,birdstone, not to bad .

Bids only two losses after breaking his maiden were at 1 1/2 mi on dirt--a TRULY archaic distance--ONLY run once a year now....MEANINGLESS these days...I agree with Wayne-o, who has always been ahead of the pack.....except this is how I would "tool" the TC: Derby and Preakness the same, only with a MONTH between....then 1 1/2 mi on TURF for the Belmont, another month between.....the sport never changes but the particulars do...

How good was Citation???...I believe he beat the older horse champion in FEB of his THREE year old season.....There's something to be said about a horse that wins so often---cuz you don't feel great EVERY day---horses that bring it every time are the definition of great.....

I didn't mean to diminish SEATTLE SLEW, I was only pointing out that SECRETARIAT was far more accomplished through the end of their respective 3 year old seasons. SEATTLE SLEW was one of the greatest horses of all time. I just think that SECRETARIAT and SPECTACULAR BID were slightly better, though there wasn't much separating them.

Is one race "proof" that one horse is better than another? Was AFFIRMED's victory clear "proof" that he was better than SPECTACULAR BID? I don't think it was, because it seems that 12 furlongs was slightly too long for 'The Bid,' though they were certainly very close in ability. Was RACHEL ALEXANDRA's Preakness win "proof" that she is better than all the boys and "has nothing left to prove?" I don't think so. Was the Belmont Stakes "proof" that DA' TARA was better than BIG BROWN?

I don't think one race necessarily "proves" that one horse is better than another, and that's why we race horses....so that we can see, over time, and after a good amount of competition, how they stack up!

Best Belmont memory for me, hitting mutiple tri's and supers last year when Da Tara shocked the world.

Worst most recent belmont memory, draynay's incessant whining after big brown totally crashed and burned. Some people can't handle when they are wrong and look for any excuse they can. It mattered none to him that all the problems started when he broke wildly and continued until KD in an act of mercy pulled him up after being passed by every horse in the race.

Mike S, excellently put.

I remember the last words I heard that day were "IT's a filly in the Belmont."  Still brings tears to my eyes.  WE have been fortunate to have lived in an era when great fillies run and lived... Genuine Risk, Eight Bells, Rags to Riches, Rachel Alexandra, and Zenyatta.  Zenyattas name gives me goose bumps.  

wendyg, if you were to see Zen in person, she would give you GOOSE BUMPS!! Such beauty

I'd have to vote for Rags to Riches.  The duel with Curlin was spectacular.  The most disappointing Belmont would be where neither the KD or Preakness raced in the Belmont.  I don't remember what year it was.  Many years ago they used to have a thing where the horse that placed highest in points from the 3 classic races would win some money.  I believe it was a million to that horse or 3 million if the horse won the triple crown.  Even if the amount were smaller, starting that program again would give incentive for horses to run and add lots of spectator appeal.  I remember the trainer of Street Sense when asked if Street Sense would run in the Belmont after losing the Preakness said,"Why, what's the point?"  To get the fans back you need horses that they recognize and can root for.  Someone should start that program again.

RAGS TO RICHES VS CURLIN WAS THE MOST EXCITING BELMONT DURING THAT TIME. I ALWAYS GET EXCITED, BUT THAT TIME I WAS SCREAMING & JUMPING UP AND DOWN. IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR THE ADRENALIN RUSH TO GO AWAY. I JUST COULDN'T IMAGINE A FILLY WINNING THE BELMONT, LET ALONE TO A GREAT HORSE LIKE CURLIN. Glad you didn't include 1973 because SECRETARIAT was simply THE BEST, ever.

Okay, as always it appears that we start losing sight on the question asked. The cut off point was 1979 and for me it was a tough decision. My heart was broken when Real Quiet lost by a nose the Triple Crown and he had been my choice that year, Afleet Alex pulling away with such power and ease from the rest of the field in his Belmont was electrifying and Point Given well he is one of my very, very favorite horses and one who really should have won the Crown but I also believe Afleet Alex was robbed of the Crown too, I couldn't believe it when Giacomo came flying past and what got me was that I had seen him in the Hollywood Futurity against Declan's Moon and Proud Accolade and told my husband that we could be looking at next year's Derby winner! But my choice was Rags to Riches win as it was a very good heartpounding race and I loved both she and Curlin and was screaming for both.

Now for those who love the horses that they do remember that there are others who have opinions and though they may not agree with us it is their opinion for which they have the right to. I am not a follower of Secretariat he was a great horse but believe there are some that are as great or greater. His time of 2:24 for 1 1/2 miles was bettered by a horse named Hawkster who ran it in 2:22 4/5 at Santa Anita on 10/14/89 and that record still stands now it was on the turf but to say that no horse has ever ran it has fast or faster really isn't true. And after awhile some tire of always having Secretariat rammed down our throats. It's not sour apples it's just that we hear it ALL THE TIME! And yes Draynay makes everyone crazy but he is who he is. And now  in my opinion the greatest Belmont ever is Affirmed and Alydar. Enough said!

I agree about losing track  of the question, but trying to get everyone to stick with it is like trying to herd kittens in a corral. Why try, just go with the flow!

This one was a hard one because I liked both when Afleet Alex ran off with the Belmont and when Rags to Riches won the Battle of the Sexes.

MoodyGirl--I am going to have to agree with you on the 1973 Belmont with Secretariat. That was truly an amazing performance by a great horse (winning by 31 lengths). In all my years of watching horse racing, I never seen a horse win by that much.

Julie L...No one has ran faster than SECRETARIAT when he ran his 2:24 on dirt at Belmont Park. He broke the track record that day by 2-2/5 seconds!!! I think the second fastest 12 furlongs at Belmont was PROVE OUT's Woodward Stakes, also in 1973, when he ran 2:25-4/5. And SECRETARIAT's time is a world record, by the way.

12 furlongs on TURF and 12 furlongs on DIRT are two entirely different things. And HAWKSTER's record, to which you referred, was done on TURF, not dirt, and in a race that starts DOWNHILL. It's not the same...not even close.

It is true that no one has run faster!!!

I attended the '07 Belmont with my elderly mom. To avoid the long lines at the windows we placed our wagers before going downstairs to the paddock to view the participants. I remember snickering to myself as mom put her five bucks to win on Rags. I followed her in line with my somewhat larger wager on Curlin who I thought was a bargain at even odds. Standing by the paddock rail I was moved by two moments. The warm greeting Curlin received and the torrent of women's cheers for Rags. We returned to our seats and I had somewhat mixed emotions as the race neared. I started wishing that I had played Rags as well- even underneath would have been fine. As they turned for home I completely lost it-rooting for the wrong horse. I was screaming bloody murder "C'mon Rags!" That thrilling stretch duel will remain with me until my dying day. I don't need to watch the replay any more-I get chills just thinking about it. As they crossed the wire I stopped screaming and jumping up and down long enough to give mom a big bear hug. She was momentarily confused because she knew I had bet Curlin and thought he had been nosed. "You won!" I hollered at her. The ecstatic visage on that old lady clutching her winning ticket and beaming along with all the other ladies around us made my $500 loser easy to rip up. When Rags returned to the winner's circle the cheers and ovations were at a somewhat higher pitch than usual. I have to say that I had tears rolling down my cheeks as I watched women in Chanel and fancy hats who had been total strangers hugging and high fiving as if they were lifelong friends. I'm getting a lump in my throat as I write this. Mom, to her credit, became a huge Curlin fan and I'm happy to say that a similar scene unfolded at the Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup and this time she bet Curlin. It is a shame that Rachel isn't running in the classic this year but mom's on the Mine That Bird bandwagon now. Will I bet against my own mother again? ...I think I'll just watch the race.

Mike S. - My point was that it is usually stated that whether dirt or turf no horse has run it as fast or faster. I gave you the name of the horse and the date and track and final time and it still stands so if you specify on the dirt then yes Secretariat has the fastest time but please give Hawkster his due. I am not saying in the least that he was better than Secretariat because obviously he wasn't but on that day he ran 1 1/2 miles in a time faster than Secretariat.

I actually have 2. The first is the '87 Belmont, with the triple crown on the line and Woody going for his sixth straight. I could feel the tension in the air as they were going to post; even though I was 3,000 miles away (in California) at the time. It was anticlimactic when Bet Twice won however since either one of the two scenarios played out like I though they might. The second was Victory Gallop's last stride win over Real Quiet for pure excitement this was arguably the best Big race finish I ever saw. Let's not forget the '83 Belmont had Pincay & Cordero at the top of their game coming down the Belmont stretch in a thrilling victory for Pincay on Caveat who he gave a masterful ride.