WEIGHT could matter-better start shopping for new venue

Zenyatta is obviously the best mare (if not horse) in training this year, so I don't see the reason Mr. Sheriffs is angry about the weight assigned, as long as she's sound and healthy. Haven't horses carried upwards to 134 pounds before, or was that too far in the past?

I feel as Mike Watchmaker does.  Until Zenyatta races against outside California (once is not enough) and against some real quality horses--especially against the boys--she will not be considered one the great race mares.  She has been babied and coddled her whole career, and I think she still has a lot to prove.  Rachel Alexandra has, at least, started on the right path to greatness!  Zenyatta has not!!  If you wish to base greatness on winning streaks, then Pepper's Pride is the greatest, right?  I rest my case.

Well this interview sure failed to answer any of the important questions Zenyatta fans wanted.  Sounds like they will stick with the plan of running her on the west coast.  If they were to run her in the Clement Hirsch on Aug. 1, there's no chance they'd ship and run her on dirt for her final prep for the Breeders Cup.  Why don't they forget about her undefeated record and take a chance against the boys?  She's a much larger horse than the average colt and would have no physical disadvantage.

Pamela R. Krafton: Well said.

Could I also say that John Shirreffs would make an excellent policitian: he says nothing very well.

Zenyatta is a thing of beauty in motion.  However, I would like her to run outside of CA and to face the boys, as Rachel has done.  Seems Azeri (sp) was, initally, in the same CA racing rut. Thank goodness she moved on and up. And Peppers Pride is great!  Bless her heart.  

I don't see why 129lbs is such a problem. Zenyatta is a physical monster. Curlin carried up to 132lbs last year and won on cruise control. Then in his first race back in the US he carried 128lbs giving 10-18lbs to his competitors and again won very easily. Both horses are physically huge, the weight if Zenyatta is as good as they say she is should not matter unless they decide to up the wieght to 139 or something. I honestly don't think there is any bias at all and JS is still sore over last year. He needs to get over it honestly, because he should know the competition you face and how far you go to face the best is what makes a horse. She will get beat again if RA races against the boys and wins, and continues it throughout the season, whether or not she goes to CA. Why because she will be exploring how far she can go and taking risks, while JS keeps Zenyatta safely tucked away at home against fillies he know Zenyatta can beat. You would think he'd learn instead of just being stubborn about it.

Thanks for the comments reguarding Zenyatta. I'm here in L. A. just to see Zenyatta again. I must say I'm a little disappointed in the weights for her next outing but it also says she's the best and she should be able to handle it. However, if she does handle it, what's next? I don't want to see her burden down with a lot of weight and the owners not wanting to put her through it. It's a slippery slope for them but hopefully it will a decision that's best for Zenyatta. She's the number one horse here and we can't afford to lose her last year because of a weight issue.

Pam: I hear what you are saying, its certainly the same thing I have heard regarding Rachel. I'm content to sit back, enjoy the heck out of watching her and when she has retired, then let the experts (which ain't me) apply the greatness label.  As far as Pepper's Pride, she'll go down in my book as a great one and one of my favorites (I'm climbing on my soap box now).  I have heard all the arguements but bottom line, if it was that easy I think we would have seen the record broken a long time ago and many times over.  Lotsa of trainers have good horses that they keep local and carefully spot and they sure haven't had much luck coming to that number.  She still had to run her race and she still had to win.  We all know that even the best horse can find a way  to lose a race ...she obviously wasn't aware of them (climbing down from soap box).

I personally don't think grade 1 races should be handicapped, except by weight for age.  While I would love to see Zenyatta leave CA, why is it always about her leaving CA - I don't see anyone shipping to CA to take her on.  I like Rachel also, but I suppose it will be Zenyatta who's penalized by the fans if Jess Jackson decides not to ship Rachel to run on synthetic and the two never race against each other.  Last time I checked, Zenyatta was the reigning champion of the division.

Dona,

    Shes been babied enough through her career and 129lbs compared to her most likely 1200 won't affect her that much. Other horses have carried weight and have been just fine. She outsizes with ease every mare and filly in the race and since it's a hadicap race it's that persons job to try and make all horses equal. 129lbs will not break a monster like Zenyatta. Also if they don't like the weights they can always try the boys.

The 129 weight seems a bit excessive to me. Yes she is a unbeaten and is a exceptionally talented mare, but she has had only one race this year and some other highly talented gals have entered the race. For example Life Is Sweet has won multiple graded stakes (think G1) but is assigned only 122lbs. Well the Vanity will be an exciting race to watch, as the big Z will show class and talent that could help solidify her status as a great racehorse in history

you know, Im kind of dissappointed with this interview because it seemed like Sherriffs doesnt want to discuss anything having to do with Zenyatta. I don't get it. He has one of the most talented horses in the world in his training and he isn't inclined to give the fans anything they don't already know. Im a HUGE fan of Zenyatta. The 129lbs won't be anything to worry about. Have you seen the competition she's running against?? (im sorry lack of competition b/c Life is Sweet is going to run in the Gold Cup) She's going to win again, no doubt about it... but whats the point b/c shes not facing quality in this race.. I'm starting to agree that she needs to be placed in a more competive race even is it's outside of Cali. (even though that means I wouldnt be able to watch her run) If this is the path her owners have chosen for her... there will alway be doubt amongst fans of how great she really was / is. I think she can take on anyone out there at this point... why are they waiting for competition to come to Cali... bring her to the competition & come home a winner.

Helesbelles & somethingroyal - still going to be at hollywood park saturday?

Zenyatta does not need to prove herself. If she stays undefeated then she gets Horse O the Year. Why take a chance and ship and get hurt on road. It took her three years to get to races. Lets enjoy her eventhough she is on powder puff plan.

They are scared of little Rachel.

129 pounds is not that bad. The Triple Crown weight is 126, and 129 is just 3 pounds over that. Sure 126 is for the colts, but Zenyatta is built like one. Speaking of colts, she should probably face them, and as much as I understand that it's hard for them to have the BC where she's based and they think she doesn't need to travel elsewhere, I think she should. I mean, she's ran on dirt and out of CA before, why can't she do it again?

The weight does not seem excessive given her record. There have been other horses in the past who have retired because the weights went up higher than their people were comfortable with. That's one of the reasons Man O'War was retired.

IMO, she should have received HOY last year. She danced every dance she was put in perfectly - on dirt, on synthetic, in CA & at Oaklawn. she beat Eclipse Award winner Ginger Punch at Oaklawn. Isn't it sexist to say she has to beat the boys? Mr. Shirreffs is right to sound aggravated about that.

Jason, what a very cool job you have!

The great ones are assigned and carry weight. When you want use the word great then you have to live up to it. No trainer has ever been happy with high weight assignments but that's the nature of the beast. Zenyatta has certainly been dominate against her Cal competition and warrants that package. 129 won't stop her, so Sherriffs can save all the whining.

Jason, what's the probability of you getting an interview with Mr. Moss?  Maybe you'll get more direct answers talking to the owner.  He can't pass the buck along then as it stops with him! :)

Karen in Indiana,

    It's not sexists. In order to be HOTY she need to beat the horse who was last years champion if still racing, and he was, he being Curlin. She didn't. She didn't even attempt to race him. He traveled to Dubai and conqured, came back and won every dirt race he was entered. He became grade one placed on grass in his only try and was never out of the money. Fourth is in the money, off the board is when a horses is not in the top three. Curlin raced on two continents and four tracks. He carried up to 132lbs that year and face anyone who wished to challenged. Zenyatta though impressive ran only in CA, except once, and only against fillies that were over matched. Brilliant yes, but she made no effort to dethrone the deffending HOTY. The decision last year was the right one.

Gotta say, tho, that especially after reading Haskin's comments about Forego's weight carrying miracles, 129 sounds pretty light for what is supposed to be the best mare (and some already say, HOY) running in a race in her own backyard against lesser competition.

Unless she's only going to run in weight for age or other similar type races -- which would appear to me to be ducking competition -- shouldn't she (or her connections) expect to get the weight added on?  If she wants to carry less, should they not consider running her outside of the comfort zone (eg. against colts and horses, in the east, whatever).

surferjoe,

    If she remains unbeaten on a powder puff plan and RA remains unbeaten while facing the best there is to offer should Zenyatta still win HOTY, i think not. JS should've learned that risks, even if they don't always pay off short term, pay off on they long road as opposed to the easy way to everything.

Lady Ruffian & Helesbelles:

Oh yeah, I'll be there with my camera. I don't want to miss a second apportunity to see Zenyatta doing her signature dance to the starting gate. I like reading that Zenyatta will likely race at Del Mar on Aug. 1st in the Clement Hirsch. I would love to get a some nice photos of her during a workout.

I don't know why people are complaining about the 129 weight assingment. This is horse racing folks and how champions have tested for many years and Zenyatta is a champion.

John Shirreffs is a class act and a man of few words.  He takes incredible care of his horses.  I am glad he has "babied" Zenyatta.  If everyone took the care that he and the Mosses take with their horses there would be fewer breakdowns.  I have had the pleasure of seeing Zenyatta and Rachel race at Oaklawn (Zenyatta's one race outside of California) and they are both amazing mares.  On that day Zenyatta beat Ginger Punch the then female horse of the year without even breaking a sweat. If you want to see Zenyatta run then go to her.  I do think it is too much weight, but I'm sure she will handle it fine.  Why does it matter which one of these mares is better -- let's just enjoy watching them run.

Z is the champ, period. She doesn't need to go anywhere to prove anything. If the others want to prove something, ship on out and run for second. Even IF she ships out to wherever the pundits want her to run she is likely to face the same type of field she will be facing this Saturday, ala the upcoming Mother Goose, a 4 horse race.

I'll be impressed when she beats the boys, till then shes a very gifted mare.  No horse of the year till she beats the boys, period!  Rachel has done more to impress me in one year than Zenyatta has in 3 years.

Until she runs against the males, who cares what she does. Beating up on the same mares every time is a bore. What would be interesting, Zenyatta and Rachael at 1 1/8 on conventional dirt. I'll take Rach!

I don't get why people are so angry over this interview. He's a trainer. He bases his decisions on what the owners want and what's best for the horse. It's nice to think of the fans, but the only one who matters right now is Zenyatta.

Everyone wants to see her face RA or the boys. That's fine--I'd like that too. They want to see her travel--that's fine, I'd love to see her travel too. You can't knock Sherriffs for promoting CA racing. This is most likely Hollywood Park's last year. I consider it noble of him to place the greatest mare in the country on this historical racetrack before it's mercilessly destroyed.

Lastly, it's annoying to hear people say she hasn't faced anything of quality and then say RA has. Besides MTB, WHO has RA defeated? Just because she beats the males doesn't mean they're great males. The girls these past two years have been outstanding. Zenyatta beat a champion in her fourth start, and ran past the greatest fillies and mares in the country practically in a canter. She ran the second fastest BC Distaff/LC ever, only behind the great Inside Information, on a surface that is supposedly SLOWER than dirt.

Respect the trainer's wishes and just enjoy watching a talented horse in her career. So long as she retires healthy, sound, and happy, I don't CARE who she runs against.

Rachel would run her off her feet

Kind of strange.John was very forthcoming in his BC interview on here a few months ago.

What transpired in the interim?

Lesson well learned?

IMO the extra weight just proves to me that the big effort is being made to try and stop Zen from powerhousing past the rest of the field, as it's always done with great horses who are champions. Par for the course. Thing is, she's built like a fright train. As long as she's healthy, she will handle the extra lbs just fine. Zen will be carring 18 lbs over the filly carrying 111. Will be interesting to see how far the powers that be will go to try and stop her. Hopefully her connections will always make her intrests a priority. Who knows what's really behind the reason for her being a Cali girl. IMO there may have been some problems on the trip outside Cali and Zen may not be a good traveler, and it is taxing on her to travel. Some people travel the world with gusto, others don't. Same with animals. Some horses we really couldn't train to race because they would not get in the confines of the horse trailer, for a small trip of 30 miles give or take. So who really knows a horses' psyche.

No matter of all the huffing and puffing people will do, Zenyatta is, and always will be a champion.

I personally think Zenyatta and Curlin would produce amazing foals. I would breed her when she retires because it's hard to find horses like Zenyatta.

To be honest I love looking at Zenyatta, She is quite remarkable.

Her connections on the other hand have really missed the boat on this one. To me they represent exactly why the masses can't seem to connect with racing , and why it has become such an isolated sport(with the exception of the derby).

They have the horse that in my opinion and I'm sure in that of  many others is the best horse in training today, yet they are unwilling to run her against real competition, or let me refrase, the best horses out there. the Handicap division looks to be very shallow , with no stand out. She is easily better than the older males out there.

These guys insist on babying the horse, and placing her in races with horses she clearly out class.

comparason:( heavy weight vs light weight)

If there were only more Mr Jacksons out there.

the strange thing is , when she is not named horse of the year they will be upset.

Zenyatta is the reining Queen of the Turf, and therefore doesn't need to go out there to find competition. If anything they'll have to come find her. I'm disappointed they're not going to ship her outside anytime soon, but if that's the plan then it's up to the others to go get her. They're the ones who should be finding her, not the other way around.

And again with Pepper's Pride. Just getting a win is hard enough; going 19 for 19 is an accomplishment regardless of the track and competition. If you want to talk about all time greats, look no further than the 19th century Hungarian monster filly Kinscem, who went 54 for 54. There's your greatness.

Guess the closest I'll get to her this weekend is Hollywood Bowl.

Lady Ruffian, I agree with you, it was like pulling teeth (seemingly)...why agree to have the chat if you're going to say almost nothing?? Kudos to the interviewer for getting through that! :)

The "no comment" comment also rubbed me the wrong way. That more or less says he's not happy about it, so why not just say that? Any bets on whether she even starts?

I do agree with him regarding the ridiculous East coast bias, and how CA racing is viewed by some within the sport. That said, when you have a horse this good, and all she keeps doing is defeating horses who are clearly beneath her quality and talent, don't bemoan your fate when you do not receive HOTY because you kept her in 'lesser' company.

You HAVE to travel...no matter where the BC is held. Which by the way, is still 5 months off...no more excuses as to why she can't leave home, it's getting SO old! Maybe if he hadn't given her over half a YEAR off after the BC, she'd have a REAL "year"...and not a 6 month campaign that looks like it might include 4 races, tops.

It's too bad. IMHO, she's been terribly mismanaged for the 2009 season. Too cautious, too many excuses, too much time to let others steal the spotlight and be RACEhorses. If she retires undefeated, but never faces anyone of note...I am not so sure the accomplishment isn't somewhat tarnished (JMO)

She's dangerously close to being "Zenyatta WHO?", for me. And I was a big fan. Makes me sad, she's clearly leaps and bounds more talented than her "camp" is letting her go out and prove in her few months before retirement.

Jason,

    Maybe you should have interviewed Jerry and Ann Moss instead of Mr. Shirreffs?  Seems like he could have opened up a little more, But maybe he didn't want to open up a can of worms? If he answered the way he wanted, maybe he would have caused more trouble then the answers were worth?  I also agree with some that other Horses can and should come to California, Why should Zenyatta leave?  She has a very good chance at going undefeated and shipping Zenyatta to the east coast then back to California would cause more harm then it is worth(IMO).  I do think 129 pounds is excessive.  It is the most weight carried since Gamely carried 131 pounds in 1968.  I also don't think you can compare the weight carried by a colt to a filly.  Just because Zenyatta is "Built" like the bigger colts isn't a reason to say she deserves the same weight assignment. Fillies and Colts are different in both physical and mental development, there are exceptions to the rule of course, But Fillies will always have a modest weight concession, on a sliding scale, according to maturity, it levels off the playing field when facing the colts. Finally, I do believe Zenyatta is the reigning champion, And if you want to dethrone her, you need to come to her, She has earned that.

I believe the people connected to one of the very few horses currently in training with the power to capture the imagination of the horseracing public & perhaps even create new fans from the public at large, owe it to the sport to welcome & stimulate that interest. Certainly, not at the expense of Zenyatta's well-being but much moreso than through the tepid answers to your forthright questions.  Color me disappointed as Mr. Shireffs came across as a reluctant participant at best & unprepared or evasive at worst.

This confirms my impression going in that both the owners & trainer are reluctant to allow this great race mare a chance to define herself for now & for history on the race track where the odds of failure are higher, the rewards greater & far more compelling than a streak of wins could ever be.

Of course, I'll continue to root for Zenyatta to succeed on the track since the only thing at stake as far as I can tell is that win streak & not a shot at racing immortality that even a slightly more ambitious path would assure.  A path that none of her human connections seem concerned about or interested in following.  Too bad.

MG

The only whining I see is supposed fans that look under every rock to attempt to find something to slam Zenyatta and other horses. If she won by thirty Saturday that wouldn't be good enough for some. Her connections do and will continue to place her welfare above and beyond what some so called fans think. If you have a problem,then maybe you should take it up w/her connections!

NINA

They aren't scared of anyone!

Zenyatta should not have a problem with 129 pounds if she is the great filly she's destin to be. The Great Ta Wee,Dr.Fager's half sister carried a top weight of 142 in the 1970 Interborough Handicap and always carried over 130 but then again she was another 70's gtreat.Zen should be fine tho.

Well that interview told us absolutely nothing!  Talk about skirting every single question that has any merit.  Sometimes these trainers are way too "carefull" when they talk about their top horses.  Whats the big deal with saying what you hope for the horse?  His favorite thing to say goes something like this: "I don't know, I'll have to talk to the owners."  

Jason,

Did he give any intention in swapping the positions of Life is Sweet and Zenyatta at all?

Jason,

You asked the questions but he didn't answer them.  You couldn't beat it out of him.  He was being very careful not to say anything that might get him in hot water with the owners.  

I think Zenyatta is fantatic!  She is a total monster but I really think she needs to try the boys.  If I owned her, I would put her against the boys in the Pacific Classic.  I just know she'd win but just staying in California and running against fillies will hurt her chances for HOY.  I thought she should have gotten it last year

but she didn't.  She is phenomenal and should be tested against the boys and get the 5 pound weight allowance that so many people hated Rachel getting in the Preakness.  I'm pretty sure Zenyatta is bigger than Rachel.  Anyone know how big she is?

I'm excited about Saturday because both Rachel and Zenyatta are running.  Would be nice if it were on the same track!

Zenyatta was a great horse last year(and will always be a great race mare even if she never wins again)...however she still has not proven that she is as good this year. I believe she has only ran one race at least so far this spring. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the mare and watch all of her races.

 I will be sad if weight is what causes her to lose. I do think that weighting her that high is crazy. But if she wins I think that it will set her up good, if her owners decide to run her against the boys.

 By the way, what is the highest weight a mare has carried anyways?

Karen in Indy...My thoughts exactly. On all 3 points, lol.

I was hoping that the high weight would cause them to scratch and send her to the Gold Cup instead.

What do you expect a trainer to say when an owner makes the big decisions.  

I expect Zenyatta to handle the assigned weight, but I don't like it.  Sometimes in these races there can be as much as a 10 pound weight difference.  Just doesn't seem right.

Uh, politicians at least make a pretense of answering the questions. I can't say the same for Shireffs. Why do people agree to interviews and then say absolutely nothing? Jason, I am not complaining about you. You asked the right questions. He just had nothing to say. Geesh.

As for Zenyatta, she can handle the weight in my opinion. Yes, she should run either against the boys or Rachel Alexandra to really clinch her claim to fame, especially if they are going to reitre her after this year. If they don't do that, there will always be a "but she didn't run against the boys" asterik to her record. If she beats Rachel, who has beat the boys, that is the same difference.

I agree that Pepper's Pride is one for the ages. Her record speaks for itself.

Grade 1 races shouldn't be run under handicap rules.

The trainer has not pulled the horse from the race, he just said no comment.(BTL:He doesn't like it but its just a few pounds so its not worth pulling a Frankel)

I love Zenyatta but great mares do things that are memorable such as beating great opponents.  She hasn't.  129 against the opponents she faces Sat. is nothing.  I think she is wonderful and she should be the mare in the Hollywood Gold Cup, not Life is Sweet. Her handlers are not doing her a favor as far as history goes.

When I first saw the 129 lbs, I was really annoyed but what the hey we know she can handle it. Zenyatta is the Queen Mum, and Rachel is the Queen of all things equine so whenever they race, whoever they race, wherever they race, does not matter. They are the best. Also, since she was mentioned, Peppers Pride is in a league of her own. I just adore her. These ladies don't have to prove anything to anyone. They are all beautiful and great athletes. The one thing these particular ladies have in common, and I very much approve, is that their safety is obviously a big priority which is the way it should be. P.S. And is there anything more charming than Zenyatta doing her "showgirl" dance routine. Maybe that's what she wants to do after retiring.

As long as "Queen" Zenyatta is kept cocooned in her comfort zone by the connections she can kiss the HOTY title goodbye.  This is the year that she should be campaigning around the country, wooing the hearts of the fans and strutting her stuff against the best.  No one doubts the awesome talent of this majestic mare but ultimately it is her connections that will limit her ranking in the history books when all is said and done.

jason,

why didn't you ask john,If zenyatta is better on dirt like he said, why not go to the gr I.go for wand at saratoga.jess might send rachel and we get the dream matchup.zenyatta must be not as good as a lot of people think.jess jackson won't be that stupid again and run rachel in the ladies classic on that plastic/fake surface.who cares if zenyatta wins the ladies classic without rachel!!!

GregJ is right. Why should Zenyatta leave California? The Breeders' Cup is at Santa Anita again this year, and if she wins the Ladies' Classic or the Classic no one will remember or care that she wasn't sent on the road show.

I admire Mr. Shirreffs and Mr. and Mrs. Moss. If Mr. Shirreffs is restrained in his comments, isn't that more professional than a Dutrow or Borel "guaranteeing" a win, only to break flop-sweat in the end?

RANAGULZION

Zenyatta's connections WILL DO whatever they feel is best for her despite what you and others' think,period! She didn't win ten in a row for nothing!

CBMAN

What's your take on other connections who don't place their horses first? At least Zenyatta's connections can't be accused of that! I back them all the way,it's their business not ours planning Zenyatta's racing schedule.

I love zenyatta and the way she starts slow and builds and comes rolling is a beautiful thing to see. I like the way mike smith rides her and  i would wonder if she and Big brown would  be compatable?  I hope she wins or at less puts on a good run because i don't like it when folks run the horses down and having won so much she has a target on her back.

I think her connections have been very clear in saying that they don't plan to leave California anymore because they believe too much travel could hurt her chances in the BC. They've said this multiple times, including in the above interview. We can agree or disagree, but they've given their reason.

I do wish they would consider some runs against the boys in California. That certainly would be fun to watch.

If there are so many horses that can beat her why not go out to california and prove it. Keep Zenyatta on the safer surfaces It would be tragic to see her get hurt after all she has done.

If not competition, why not weight? If she's not going to leave California, then let her challenger become the weight imposts.

Soldier Course,

    I must disagree with you. Zenyatta will not get the best there is to offer this year in either the Classic or Distaff, because so many trainers with top dirt horses won't want to run there top horses only to get beaten by a bunch of synthetic specialists or turf horses. RA will probably not go, and if JJ builds up a strong campaign here in the east by taking on the colts Zenyatta will not win. When the year is done RA will probably have run and won over five or six different tracks and in just about as many states. Zenyatta will have been know as staying within her comfort zone, yet again, and beating up on mediocer mares. Life is Sweet is turning out to be her best competions since Proud spell is retired, and both Cocoa Beach and Music Note have failed to hit the board in their last start. This year anyone can win the crown, since the defending HOTY is not racing. Zenyatta does not just inherit his place by one start, she's got to earn it. The horse with the best season, who took more risks and still prevailed will win over the one who just takes the easy road everytime. In order to win HOTY Zenyatta does need to be place in a position where others can challenged her, in a race with absoultely no restrictions. I'm not saying go find competition, but she has to be open to them to compete with. She may have earned respect with her unbeaten record, but it is not nearly as good looking when you relize she races only in one state and mainly at one or two tracks. This year is what counts and right now RA has done more than Zenyatta.

Zenyatta is one of the greatest fillys to ever race. See will probably win the BC distaff two years running. When a horse of her quality enters into a race no one wants to run against them. Most G1 races have small fields. Rachel Alexandra is a very taented filly that beat the boys carrying less weight. She would not have won had she carried equal weight to the much smaller and lighter Mine That Bird. How competitive is Rachels next race? If Rachel wants to be hores of the year she needs to beat Zenyatta. Not wanting to run on the plastic is only an excuse. I hope they face each other in the Distaff.(Ladies Classic)  No one wants to run against either of them. It's not their fault.

All trainers should try to protect their horses and seem disappointed with weight.

What a great idea the brain trust at the Breeders Cup had. Lets run the two best horses in the country on Friday. Wake up an run the best races on Saturday!

An amazing mare, but I'm getting a little irritated at her connections. Are they going to run her in every race they did last year?

I absolutely adore this mare, but she needs to come out of her comfort zone like RA did. If she does not leave California, fair enough, then she should go to the Classic. She's got more the enough class to face the boys, why are her connections so timid about it? She's shown she runs well at Santa Anita, take the advantage if running on home ground against the boys.

Well this is what I have to say.  RA and Zenyatta running on the same weekend.  Yeah OK why is RA not racing Zenyatta?  I stongly beleive it would be Zenyatta 1rst and RA 2nd.  :)  

By staying in California this will do nothing for this mare, she has already won everything there for fillies and mares and is already repeating races from last year that mean nothing anymore..it is time for this wonderful mare to hit the road and tackle different venues and the boys. Lady's Secret was based in the west but went east and took on the boys and more and won... so give me a break about supporting racing in California (i.e. synthetic tracks and an easy playing field) and the list goes on of great mares that competed against the males and won and did not dodge anyone in doing so. So come on, go big or go home.

I see a lot of people down on Zenyatta.  She is undefeated and the defending champion handicap mare.  She might not have accomplished what other great racemares have but she is one of the greats in the past 10 years, and if she continues to do greater things than she might become legendary.  But its not fair to be down on her accomplishments or on how she has been managed.  Personal Ensign who is considered one of the greats, and she does merit that.  But like Zenyatta, Personal Ensign pretty much stayed in the New York-New Jersey circuit.  Her only race outside of that was her last at churchill.  She defeated a washed up Winning Colors twice, and she defeated 2 sprint specialist in the whitney, while receiving way more than 5 pounds from both. Her connections  ducked Sacahuista and the 1 1/4 of the Distaff back in 1987 after her Beldame win.  And Im not knocking them, they did what was best for the horse.  She was not the soundest of horses, and like Zenyatta did not get HOY, because she did not beat the best of the males, she did not beat Alysheba, or Forty Niner, or Waquoit, or Cryptoclearance, or Seeking The Gold.  Now Zenyatta beat the defending champ of the previous year.  She will be the champ again if she wins out, the BC is in California again,thats not Zenyattas fault, if I owned her I would do the same thing,  its the east coasters who should be heading to California if they intent to run well at Santa Anita, otherwise, it will be the same as last year, a european and california based breeders cup domination.

Well the race for older mare should get really interesting if Life is Sweet ends up winning the Hollywood Gold Cup. What will the Mosses do then?

I'm a huge Zenyatta fan, no doubt, but I definitely think she's been way too coddled this year. Considering this will likely be her last year on the track, they could have brought her back in the Santa Maria or Santa Margarita, and then taken her to the Apple Blossom. Instead, this year, she'll have raced in the Milady, the Vanity, the Hirsch, the Lady's Secret and then the Distaff? FIVE races?

With that light a schedule, why not then bring her back for a 6-year old season, since she only made a handful of starts as a 3-year old?

I'm scratching my head on their thinking re: her schedule. There's a growing part of me that hopes Life is Sweet wins the Gold Cup and then goes on to get another 1 or 2 Grade 1 wins to compare against whatever Zenyatta does from here on out.

I know horses are supposedly more fragile these days than in years gone by, but five races in one year?...Hard to talk about her in the same breath as Glorious Song, Lady's Secret, Bayakoa, Paseana or Azeri when she'll have made all of 14 or 15 lifetime starts.

How can anyone seriously already  have annointed Zenyatta as HOY?  It's not an inherited position.  Sure, she was great last year, against fillies and mares.  However you can't really grant her that crown in June after only one race.  

I think what many of us are saying on this blog is that we believe that if her connections expect her to win HOY this year, she's going to have to be placed in races with all kinds of competition and not just in California against horses she's already beaten at level weights.

And I think it's unfair to imply that if some of us think that she should run against colts or outside of California or with weight added that we're somehow not thinking about her well-being or dissing her connections.  

Some of us remember Shuvee and Ta Wee and Susan's Girl and other great mares who took on challenges.  So far, with what little Jason has been able to find out with this interview, it doesn't appear that Zenyatta's connections are interested in any challenges.

And that's just plain disappointing.

LDP conveniently forgets that Curlin was a one-trick pony.  When asked to run against very modest grass company, he failed.  Sure some in the field had won big races, but none in the past year at least.

When asked to run on synthetic, he did even worse.

Zenyatta beat all comers and on both dirt and synthetic.  She was horse of the year, but the male biased press voted for Curlin based more on his 2007 form and a couple races of 2008.  Based on the whole year of 2008 alone, Zenyatta was the far superior race horse.

That said, 129 is no big deal.  Or shouldn't be.  They run 'em heavier in Europe, and she carries heavier in training.  If her connections want her to be considered one of the greats, she has to carry the weight.

Curlin's 132 is proportionate.  Colts carry 3-4 lbs more than females.

So what if Zenyatta stays home to race? I don't see any east coast trainers willing to ship to take her on, so what's the difference if Sheriffs doesn't want to travel? Why doesn't Asmussen bring Rachel out here this weekend to beat up on Zenyatta like everyone says she will? It's the same story, different horse. Money is money is money no matter where you race.

If ZENYATTA were based in New York none of the East Coast crowd would be saying, "She needs to go to California to prove how great she is." Well, you know what? She's great, and she doesn't need to go to New York or anywhere else to prove how great she is, she's already there! She is the queen of the hill. If New York horses don't have to come to California to prove their greatness then California horses don't have to go to New York either.

PEPPER'S PRIDE has nothing to do with greatness, so comparing her and ZENYATTA is absurd, ridiculous and supremely pointless. PEPPER'S PRIDE is a nice mare, one I would love to own, and she beat New Mexico breds in all her races. Good for her. ZENYATTA has defeated all the best fillies and mares around, including HYSTERICALADY, GINGER PUNCH, TOUGH TIZ'S SIS, COCOA BEACH and MUSIC NOTE. I guess Mike Watchmaker missed out on all that she has accomplished? He can't see farther than Belmont Park, maybe?

I don't think ZENYATTA should have to carry 129 pounds. Those days are over. Even CURLIN only carried 128 pounds, as a high, last year. I thought it was unfair, from the 1970's and 1980's that COUGAR II, TIZNA, FOREGO, SPECTACULAR BID, JOHN HENRY, etc., always had to give away lots of weight to their competitors. Those horses were the best and they should have been allowed to prove it. I think a level playing field (weight for age) is the only fair way of doing things at the top level of racing. Our stars and champions should be allowed to shine. I hope the days of oppressive handicap weights do not make a return.

workhorse

I don't believe that RA will beat Zenyatta EVER.  Never really know but Queen Zenyatta is a perfect girl.  RA is OK but not nearly as good as Zenyatta.  It is hard to pick and I love them both but as for the fastest horse it is Zenyatta hands down providing she is sound.

Mike Relva... .Sooooo true.  Some people just like to dream.  10 for 10?  Hmmmmmm that is in the Ruffian range (I think).  Hasn't RA lost one or two races?

Tracy W.

AMEN!  :)

MonicaV

Would be nice if they were running the same race LOL :)

Why don't they run Zenyatta on the turf in California?  Could even be against the boys.  

The BCC isn't until October, there is plenty of time to ship her and recover.  I just don't get the reasoning of staying in CA because the BCC is there.  It was last year also.

Too bad JJ didn't buy her too!

Handicaps have got to go. Many in the racing industry complain about declining attendance ahd handle but what do you expect from a sport that tries to get their superstars beat by giving them rediculous weight assignments? I understand that the weight assignments are meant to make the race more bettable for the bettors but you can't cater to both the fans and bettors at the same time. It's one or the other. Drawing more fans doesn't mean much in terms of handle because people new to racing won't make large bets they just increase tv ratings. Making races more competitive with weight assignments will increase handle but when you don't let your superstars go undefeated you lose fans and tv and print coverage. It's a no win situation. Team sports will always be on top because they rely on tv revenue,ticket sales and merchandise sales. Baseball would doesn't make their best hitters use heavier bats!

LDP:

You've made some good points. It's early days yet, so we'll see what happens at Saratoga, Del Mar, Arlington, etc. Thanks.

Well, I thought I recently read an article that said Mr. and Mrs. Moss leave the racing decisons up  to the trainer. That article may have been inaccurate, but it certainly is at odds with what I (sort of) learned in this "interview". By the way, I wholeheartedly support and agree with the trainer keeping their plans a bit private - just don't agree to an interview.

I think Zenyatta is the greatest horse in the country right now. But it's more of a gut feeling. I'd like to be able to say it for certain, but I won't be able to until she races against the boys. Her remaining races in California will and up looking like RA's race this Saturday - only 3 other horses will challenge her. Maybe it's selfish on my part - I wish she'd come East so I can possibly see her.

The 139 lb. issue? Please. She already weighs 200 pounds more than the other horses. And to belay what I see coming, the 200 pounds (a guess at best) is not 100% muscle.

Who knows, maybe you caught Shirreff's on a bad day or maybe he was still fumming about the weight issue, who knows? You did your best with the interview, maybe next time it'll be more informative.

Everyone speaks about trying to build interest in horse racing. If that's the case, sooner or later, Zenyetta will have to meet Rachel. Almost like a heavyweight title fight. You can't have one West Coast and one East Coast Champ. They have to combine the title sometime, I hope?

That was not an interview. That was one person asking questions and the other not answering.

Workhorse,

    RA does not need to beat Zen in order to be HOTY. If you feel that way then how do you feel about the last years decision for HOTY. I hope you feel it was right seeing as how in your logic Zen should've beaten Curlin to win the title, seeing how he was defending HOTY. This year the defender of the title is not back, making it up for grabs. The horse that goes out and takes more chances and does well will get the title, and correct me if i'm wrong how does one start override five? RA is unbeaten in five starts this year, and Zen has only raced once. She is not even in contention for the title yet, right the top three are most likely RA, MTB, and Einstein, in no particular order. To place her above any of them at this point is absurd. She needs to do a lot more to claim the title, and obviously her connections aren't worried about doing it.

    On this years Preakness, RA had just as bad a trip or worse. She broke form the thirteen post, went into the first turn almost five wide, and was in a speed dual that set very fast fractions. The only real trouble MTB had was having to go wide, which closers must do, they can't always get a perfect trip, and he had to check for barely a second. This horse seems to need a good set up in a race when RA can win doing anything. You say he would've caught her, well if he was coming as fast as he was why didn't he just blow by her a few yards after the wire? She won the race and that is that, it in history and it's part of her record now as a win against the boys, so get over it.

Andarwho,

    To say the synthetics are safer is not yet justified. They have not even been used for ten years yet. Also if i remeber correctly after the BC last year there were many breakdowns and fatalities. Dirt tracks if correctly maintained are just as safe as these plastic tracks are made out to be. Most of you ppl claiming Zenyatta has nothing to prove were ready to bash Curlin's connections if they didn't show last year. He was King last year and some of you said dispite he has never lost anything on dirt this year, dispite he already traveled to Dubai and back he still has something to prove. Zenyatta has more to prove than Curlin ever did. I'm not saying leave CA, but why not run her in the Pacific Classic? If she is so good why not let her face the colts, they ought to be more her level. To call her great is contadictory of her connections, seeing as how they refuse to leave their state more than once or face colts. As of now she is brilliant, but not great.

John Sherriffs stated the obvious--the Breeders Cup is being held again at Santa Anita--THAT ALONE is the reason they won't be able to see her back East--He's right, you prepare your horse to be at optimum capability on BC Day---don't blame him for staying put--where the BCup is! Rachel can "dodge" her by staying put back East and beating the boys again---that would probably get HOY and I cannot blame them for trying that...but Santa Anita is not Zenyatta's favorite surface---rats! She would have preferred dirt and probably she would've preferred Belmont! THAT'S where the BCup SHOULD'VE been THIS YEAR!.....ok Jess... you tried pro-ride last year with Curlin....you should've gone out for the Goodwood with Curlin, you didn't give him the chance to win....I WANT Rachel v Zenyatta.....I WANT that! It HAS to be at Santa Anita/it HAS to be in the Breeders Cup---come out, Zenyatta does not train on pro ride, come out for two--come out for the Lady's secret AND the Cup--I WANT that! I've been in and around racing for 38 years going on 39---the only thing close to this was Personal Ensign and Winning Colors, maybe Bayakoa and Go For Wand....I have the feeling Sherriffs wanted Belmont--I have the feeling she's beatable at Santa Anita---Team Rachel needs to get it out there, that they intend on facing Zenyatta, that they'll not take the "easy out" v males, that's right, the easy out.....

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Lady's Secret win the Whitney Handicap, against males, carrying 128lbs?  And wasn't Lady's Secret smaller than Zenyatta? We have become so used to lower weights, that 130lbs seems excessive. Horses carry over 130lbs in steeplechasing races and I can only guess that would be more taxing than in a flat race. And, what about the sprint race near the end of the year where most of the horses carry 126+ lbs and several of those are over 130lbs?

I like both fillies.

However, before we jump to conclusions lets just see what hapens this week when Rachel takes on what should be a tougher field in the Mother Goose, and when Zenyatta carries 129 lbs. in the Vanity.

You can't blame Zenyatta for her connection's so-called guarded approach.  They are obviously doing what they think is right.

As far as her racing against tough horses and outside California, it seems to me the field she humbled in the Apple Blossom, which included North America's top filly or mare at the time in Ginger Punch, was pretty tough.  As far as one blogger saying that one time out of state wasn't enough, we'll see.

Maybe if Rachel's connections want to prove a point and I really don't think they do, then why don't they go after Zenyatta...even if it's on her "turf", something along the lines of what Seabiscuit did when he raced against War Admiral.

Shireffs didn't answer anything in this interview, which is kind of disappointing...

It does nothing for her legacy at this point to continue to beat up on overmatched fillies on the West Coast on synthetic tracks.  If these guys want her to go down as one of the best ever then they need to take her to the East Coast and to face the boys on the dirt OR enter a race against Rachel at the very least.

Continuing the path they're on proves nothing we do not know already...It's time to shake things up a little by going to the dirt tracks against better competition.

A handicap is a race that weighs down the better horses so that theoretically all the horses finish together.  A pound a legnth.  That being said, who thinks Zen should have to carry less?  You cant say shes the best and then moan about weights.  Finally the handicapper gave a fair weight!!!   I was disgraced when Lava Man was carrying 124 in a "handicap".  C'mon, 3yos carry more than that in the Derby!!!  As for Life is Sweet getting 122lbs, she is showing up her stablemate by facing boys!  A weak bunch, but boys non the less.

Diane, why shouldnt G1s be handicapped?  In a weight for age race you would stack pounds on say Better Talk Now and let Zenyatta run light?   Hardly.  And if you do feel that way, there are several G1s that do run under allowance conditions.  Its good to have variety.  

Also, no way she gets HOTY on that cop out of a schedule.  "We are going run Zenyatta as a 4 yo but only in CA in races she has won, with less than 5 horses in the field."  She will need to step up and win the BC Classic or RA will have to run in the Distaff and Zen will have to win that for her to even be considered.  A win at another track wouldnt hurt any either.  Seeing as they are both G1 winners on the dirt, that would be the prefered surface, but hey RA has won on syn too so JJ shoukldnt be so hesitant.

Tracy: you are a wee bit delusional if you think that JS is keeping Z here to "support CA Racing"  thats all PR stuff. He's just playing safe.  And Z may have raced against some better fillies than RA but her overall company lines are not very exciting and not very diverse.  Its not only that RA beat boys (and you cannot diss these boys until thr end of the year, whose to say what they can become) but when was the last time you saw Z open uo 20 on a field?  As far as her 2nd fastest Distaff, im not dissing the mare cuz she hasnt done wrong, but for a horse that really only runs 3 f then you have to give the credit to the speed horse.  

As for Sherriffs saying there is an "east coast bias" its because the East Coast horses venture out.  They run in KY, in NY, and at Gulfstream.  They travel to Arkansas and Texas and Virginia.  California horses run at Santa Anita.  Then make the hour drive to Hollywood.  California is like a racing bubble that few people ever break in to and no one breaks out of.  

I still can't believe that people are still screaming about that weight allowance in the Preakness.  I don't recall anyone saying anything about it when Rags won with her allowance.

I agree with Relva Zenyatta is the champ and she gets to call the shots even Peppers Pride shouldn't be criticized for the competition she faced. There are plenty of open stakes races in New Mexico and I don't recall reading about anyone offerinf to ship into NM to face her. If Jess Jackson wants to prove he didn't run in the Preakness because it was one of the weakest fields of the last two decades then ship RA to Southern California before the Breeders Cup and face Zenyatta in a small field.

Zen needs to travel to "prove" she really is a champion??? ... horse manure. (throw in some pig and bull for good measure!) If other horses are traveling to six or more states to race on different tracks, good for them. But to really "prove" that they are all that, then the connections just need to add in one more state, on a different type of track to "prove " their horse is top notch. Coddled or not, Zen is a champion. Contenders are free to come and challenge. Any takers?

workhorse, you called that one right.... only an excuse.

Also, why is it acceptable for trainers to say they don't want their horses running on a "fake" track, but when the same argument is made for dirt (because of safty concerns),.... oh no no no! why that's just not right! Well times have changed, we now have synthetics. As for excuses, IMO, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  

First, I would like to say I am a Big Zenyatta fan.  If she is not going out of Ca., and she is not going to go against the boys , as a fan I believe she needs to show her greatness in other ways. Going underfeated, winning the Breeders Cup Distaff twice and carrying weight will be the only way to do it.  I hope the connections change their mind and go against the boys, I don't believe there is a boy (or girl) in the US that can run with her.  I don't think weight is not going to stop her, but her trainer has to act like he's upset so the next time she runs they will think twice about adding lots more weight. In summation, I believe the owners have all the right in the world to do what they feel is right for her, and I believe as fans we have all the right in the world to hope they take it to the boys.  In the end, we all want her safe, so lets hope what ever happens in the end, it is the right decision.

Ps Thanks for trying Jason, you can lead a horse to water...

Monica V...Zenyatta is 17 hands "big", lol. Last year I saw(on TVG) Bob Baffert go measure her after someone told him that Z was bigger than Midnight Lute. Bob didn't believe it but it was true.

stop the whining about the weights that's why its a handicap to even things up.As for  Rachel running in the Mother Goose that's a joke. The 3 year old filly divison is weak , she is good but the real tale will come IF she runs against older mares like Z.Last year the owners had every oppt to ship Curlin to race on poly before the BC but chose not to -dunb move now are they going to do the same with Rachel? Logic says if your going to run in the BC get use to the surface.All the crying Curlin's owners did last year about poly was a joke.Instaed of running on turf they should have gone out west and raced. Smart to keep Z in cal.Lot can happen before BC.Go west RA.

Zenyatta shouldn't and probably won't get voted HOTY if she continues to duck the males and only race at a couple of tracks in one state on fake dirt.

If Rachel continues to win all over at different tracks at different states, including the three greatest tracks in the country....Churchill, Belmont and Saratoga, and beats the colts, say one more time, she will get HOTY without having to meet Zenyatta. Unless, of course, Zenyatta's   connections change their plans, and show a little nerve.

Linda--if Rachel has impressed you more in her two years than Zenyatta in her 3 you weren't watching closely. And which of the races Rachel has been in COULD Zenyatta have been entered in? Rachel has stuck with 2 yr olds and now 3 yr olds--if you are 4 then 5 you CAN'T run in those can you? If you count the 2 races of Zenyatta's in nov07 as a year then you must count Rachel's in 08 as a year.  

Those who say Rachel undefeated which of her losses have you missed seeing? hmmmm?

Jess Jackson has a huge ego and is NOT responsible for Rachel's brilliance-Wiggins is. Jackson bought her and entered her where her previous owners refused to and because he missed being in the spotlight-don't kid yourselves it was anything but for Jess.

Anyone who believes they are afraid if big Rachel-she is big folks not little-is nuts.

I think most of us would like to see Zenyatta barnstorm all over the country - Cigar comes to mind - but I don't see that happening here. Some have made the argument that she has earned the right to stay in her backyard and wait for challengers to visit her court, but an equally good argument can be made for her to hit the road and take on whoever shows up. She is undeniably a great mare, but I would hesitate to put her in the class of the greatest at this point.  Shuvee carried weight, ran a distance of ground and beat males. Serena's Song and Lady's Secret ran all over the place and also faced males. Wayne had owners who enjoyed a challenge.  I'm not so sure about Zenyatta's people...

I just read all these comments and they are mostly all supportive of the horse.  After all, who doesn't love Zenyatta?  She is a sight to see.

But as far as the connections, they all seem like such nice folks, but I gotta agree with LoveMyLava.  Too cautious, too many excuses and not a HOY campaign by any stretch of the imagination.  

Of course the horse comes first.  But she had seven months off, shipped but couldn't run on a wet track, can't try males or a mile and a quarter, can't travel again and try another dirt track though the BC is not until November. . ..

Zenyatta is a star but this schedule is making it seem as if  her repertoire is rather limited.

Of course she is the reigning champion older mare and she doesn't "have" to seek out competition.  Nobody "has" to do anything, but it would be great if she did.  The fear of losing seems to be the only real reason for the powder-puff season.

Workhorse - We will hopefully see the best horse in the country on Saturday of Breeders Cup Weekend,  Steve A & JJ already stated that if they go in the Breeders Cup it will be in the Classic on Saturday.  For everyone on here saying Zenyatta should be HOTY she has no shot unless she steps up and beats the boys in the classic.  If Rachel doesn't run another race all year she will get HOTY based on her Oaks & Preakness wins.

Jason - You should of asked JS why there running Sweet instead of Z in the Gold Cup.

Who cares if Zenyatta only runs in California.  Who cares about the East Coast bias.  That type of politics shouldn't dictate where a horse runs.  As far as Rachael on her road to greatness, Zenyatta will eat her alive if they race.  I believe that Life is Sweet would also handle Rachael.  Way too much hype.

Personal Ensign never left New York area but did face the boys. Zenyatta needs to follow those footsteps to be the best  ever  Can you say Goodwood as a prep and then the Ladies Classic. John S. need to learn how to be a spokesperson.

I don't think the weight should  bother Zenyatta, she is a monster.  As far as her not facing any competition - she won the Breeder's Cup Ladies Classis last year.  How can you say that is no competition - Cocoa Beach and Music Note are both very talented fillies?  Further, Life is Sweet is also a very talented filly and she beat her easily her last race.  I don't see any real competition for Zenyatta in the filly and mare division except maybe for Rachel Alexandra.  That is the race EVERYONE would like to see.  Mr. Jackson should bring Rachel Alexandra to Santa Anita and run her against Zenyatta prior to the Breeder's Cup.  That way he can see if Rachel can handle the synthetic surface.  I wish they had gotten one race in on the synthetic for Curlin for the Breeders' Cup last year.  I believe he would have performed  better second time out.    

Why are so many people so negative about Zenyatta?  As far as I am concerned she has already proven herself great.  I get more thrills out of watching her race than I do any triple crown race or any other horse.  How many of the top three year old colts even run past age three or four. What with everything that I have read about her and her connections she is more than just a race horse.  They love her and care about her well being first.  For some of the above bloggers it appears that she would need to race on water to be great.

Question,

   What does everyone think Rachel's weight assignment will be in the Mother Goose this weekend?, Will it be higher or lower then Zenyatta's?, I was curious what everyone thought before it came out?  Thanks....

    Also, Does anyone think there is any chance Rachel or Zenyatta will lose this weekend?  If someone is inclined to say yes, Then by which horse?  Even with the unfair weight of 129 pounds(IMO), I think Zenyatta is a lock, But, Call me Insane, I don't think Rachel is a 100 Percent lock, I actually see Malibu Prayer giving her a race !

Hey Bill:

You're correct about horses like Shuvee, Seren'a Song and Lady's Secret being great.  Lady's Secret was HOY and so was Azeri.

Zenyatta to me has that potential because of the powerhouse she has so far shown to be.  Her win at Oaklawn in the Apple Blossom against a tough field suggests that it doesn't matter where she races, the track will not be a bias against her and she will still dominate.

If some people want to say that race was a fluke, then they should also say that Rachel's win in the Preakness was a fluke.

I wouldn't rush to put Rachel in the same category as Zenyatta or other great mares just yet, but she certainly has that type of potential.

Thanks, Barb!  Wow!  17 hands is huge!  What a filly!  I dont think the 129 will bother a horse that big.  

Hey Relva, you are missing the point.  The HOTY title and historical ranking of outstanding thoroughbreds depend upon PUBLIC OPINION.  Zenyatta's connection are doing her talent and race record a disservice by being timid with her campaign.  Nevertheless, I understand your perspective - one that dismisses the views of ardent race fans that doesn't tally with yours (no disrespect intended here but this needs to be said).

GREG J

I think Rachel's weight this weekend will be lower.

I don't think any of the colts running now could beat Zenyatta.  I think she will trounce everyone she faces.  I'd love to see her in the Pacific Classic or the BC classic.  

Most likely RACHEL would win in a MATCH race

Greg J,

I don't think Rachel is a lock in her race.  Zenyatta, yes.  I don't think anyone can beat Zenyatta.

JGRIGGS AND MIKE S

Very good points,I couldn't agree more.

Steve,

Personal Ensign did leave NY because I saw her beat Winning Colors in the Distaff at the 1988 Breeder's Cup at Churchill.  One of the best moments of the day!  She retired undefeated too.

STARDUSTY ROSE

Thanks! BTW I never got your email. How are you?

"Staying in California will do nothing for this mare"...@%&!??!

Zenyatta has no concept of HOTY or her legacy as a great racing mare. She just likes to run...Awards and recognition are ONLY for the connections. The "fans" are clamoring for her to do more so she will receive their accolades...what a joke! The only accolades she cares about are those of the people who truly love her and take care of her. You cannot find better connections than Zenyatta's. She is a very fortunate mare.

"Go big or go home" @&%!??!?

They ARE home! We Californians are very lucky that they ARE staying home. Some of us would like to silence the MORE proponents by having her travel all over to prove she is THE BEST. But is that what IS BEST for the horse? I'm sure a lot of people were salivating at the thought of Ruffian's match race with Foolish Pleasure and clamoring for her to do MORE. We all know what that did for her and her legacy...

Sorry, I just had to get this off my chest. Racehorses give a lot more than we deserve.

TIM

Very nice post! I totally agree w/you.

MarkR,

No one is responsible for Rachel's brilliance but Rachel.  Mr. Wiggins did a fabulous job in his training but she would not have been the horse she is unless she was born that way.  You can't train a horse to be like Rachel.  If that were the case, all the horses Mr Wiggins, or Baffert, Zito or any of the top trainers would be brilliant.  Horses like Rachel or Zenyatta are few and far between and are not created by man but by God.

Greg J.  

I think the Prayer is gonna beat RA this weekend too.  I have been thinking that all week.  As for Zenyatta LOL OK well the only way I feel she will get beat is if she is not sound to race.  After all, we are talking about Zenyatta and a hall of fame jockey right?  As for the weight.  Well if RA gets a weight pass then why not Zenyatta?  They are both gals.  Doesn't really seem fair to me but hey when was racing ever fair LOL.  :)

Stardusky Rose,

LOL!  Yes, even better if they were in the same race!  Wish they would meet.

Greg J:

The Mother Goose is a stakes race. All the fillies will be carrying the same weight of 121 lbs.

Zenyatta fans -  read between the lines,  her connections don't think she's that great a horse or they would run her against the boys in the Gold Cup like there doing with her not as good stablemate.  All they care about is keeping her undefeated against mediocre competition they know they can beat.  

Greg J -  Barring no injuries Rachel is a lock.  Can't see her getting beat by any other 3yo filly at equal weights of 121 going a distance of 1 1/8 or father.  The only way Zenyatta gets beat by the weak bunch she is facing is if there ends up being a lone speed horse in there that runs away and hides from them.

After so many comments about Zenyatta not facing any  legitimate competition, I went back and looked at the list of horses she has beaten.  I think everyone will agree that she has faced the best the filly and mare division has to offer with the exception of this year's rising stars such as Rachel Alexandra.  Here are the also rans who are millionaires:  Cocoa Beach, Hystericalady, Ginger Punch, Bear Now and Sealy Hill.  Over $500k earners:  Music Note, Tough Tiz's Sis, Carriage Trail and Life is Sweet.  I may have missed a couple but you get the point.  I cannot think of any star fillies/mares she has not faced and she certainly has not dodged anyone.  The fact is that she is just superior in the filly and mare division.  I understand that to win Horse of the Year she will probably have to face the boys in the eyes of the voters but let's not diminish her racing career and say that she has not proven herself and that she has not faced any legitimate competition because clearly she has faced the best in the filly and mare division.  She is just superior and has not been tested yet.  I agree that to see just how great she really is we will probably have to see her run against the boys and see her get tested by someone.  I only want what is best for her and the connections will make that decision.  Her legacy and greatness as a race horse should not be solely determined by whether or not she faces the boys.  She is a joy to watch and I applaud the connections for keeping her safe and healthy.  

RA is caring 121 because she is in a stake race.  Zenyatta is carrying 129 because she is in a handicap race.

MIKEG,

"her connections don't think she's that great a horse or they would run her against the boys in the Gold Cup like there doing with her not as good stablemate." Baffling comment!...

Postergeist,

    Duh!, My bad, I forgot it was a Stakes Race....

I agree. They must not think she's that great because she would run against the boys. We all saw how Rachel was in the Preakness, and Zenyatta is so much better than her. If you put Zenyatta and Rachel together, you can tell Zenyatta is better. The way she races is different and she is built more powerful. Sheriffs says that if she would race against the boys, it would depend on how well she's doing. Zenyatta did great in the Milady and I expect her to do well in the Vanity. Male horses are naturally more agressive on the track, but Zenyatta is the most aggressive female horse I've seen since Ruffian. I would wait and see, but I would expect her to do great against the boys.

Zenyatta will definitely be nominated to the Go For Wand at Saratoga.  this will be used as leverage so that the Del Mar racing secretary (with a big push from the DM marketing department) doesn't make her carry the grandstand in the Clement Hirsch.

I see Sherriff's point on the game plan for Zenyatta.  She's based in California, that's where the BC is, there is really no outstanding reason to take her outside of the state.  

However, I much prefer the approach that Jess Jackson takes: take the horse to where the competition is.  

Zenyatta is out of competition in California.  I'd like her to have a more rounded campaign.  And that means dirt.  I don't care if they race her against the boys or not.  I'd just like to see her go to Churchill, Belmont, Saratoga, somewhere outside of the synthetic trackmosphere of California.  Lava Man was sensational in California, but he'll only be remembered for being a "west coast" horse.  Zenyatta is far too talented not to let her star shine elsewhere.

On the weight: I've always wondered if a trainer doesn't like weights, why enter a handicap race?  I don't think 129 is disadvantageous to a horse like Zenyatta.  Enough said on that subject.

Looking forward to watching the girls in action this weekend!

LADY'S SECRET carried 119 pounds in her score in the Whitney Handicap.

PERSONAL ENSIGN pretty much stayed on the New York circuit during her career, but I haven't seen any New Yorkers whining about how "she will have to leave New York to prove how great she is...so we better take her to California"! She did all her racing in New York, with one start in New Jersey and her last start at Churchill Downs in the Breeders Cup. In her Whitney score "against the boys" not many boys showed up that day. She beat GULCH by 1-1/2 lengths, getting 7 pounds from him, with KING'S SWAN, the only other entrant, 17 lengths behind GULCH in 3rd.

Keep ZENYATTA right here in California. If becoming one of the greats of all time was OK for PERSONAL ENSIGN while running in her own backyard it's OK for ZENYATTA too.

ZENYATTA has never faced "mediocre competition." She has beaten every good filly or mare in competition.

RACHEL ALEXANDRA, however, has always faced "mediocre competition" and has 3 losses to show for it. The only time she faced good horses was in the Preakness, and she did pass that test with flying colors.

I do not think Zenyatta should carry more weight: the entire handicap system can be unfair.  Why don't we tie a few sinkers to michael phelps when he goes to the olympics to try and even up the playing field? Dominant horses shouldnt be penalized

Well the horses don't know that they might be racing aginst the bsst horses in the contry they just run so it dosn't matter who she runs aginst.

RA vs. Z not gonna happen! JJ hates the California Lint Tracks.

MikeG.,

"If Rachel doesn't run another race all year she will get HOTY based on her Oaks & Preakness wins."

Really? So if little ol' Mine That Bird wins the BC Classic, he has no shot at HOTY? You may recall he won the Derby and ran and took home money in the other two classics.

Because of Zenyatta style of running she'll have little chance running

against R.A.-- Love Zenyatta but

speed is speed and that's the ticket with these two. Just a thought.    Jaktrak

Mike G.

I guess that Rachel's owners don't think that she's that good a horse otherwise they wouldn't have opted out of the Breeders Cup.

For all you people knocking Zenyatta for staying in California, maybe you should start eating some crow.

Right now it looks like she is ducking Zenyatta, not synthetics.  Maybe Zenyatta should go after her.

I can't wait until what's his name?........oh, yeah, Draynay the world's greatest expert gets back so he can make another one of his wingnut comments.

MIKEG:  there's no reason to ask the question why Life Is Sweet is being considered for the Hollywood Gold Cup rather than Zenyatta, because the answer is obvious -- the two horses have different owners with very different philosophies.  The Wygods own LIS;  they also owned the filly Sweet Catomine whom they raced against the boys in the 2005 Santa Anita Derby with the expectation of running her in the Kentucky Derby.  She was the favorite in the SA derby but finished 5th, and never raced again.  You read between the lines...

Zenyatta or Rachel, at least we know their connections are trying to do right by them, most of that is putting them in the right race at the right time and keeping them safe, including not traveling more than necessary to go find dirt when the "big race" (BC) is on "plastic" at your home.

JJ's not running RA in the BC races this year...let the dissing begin!

Greg J., the Mother Goose is 121 lbs for all.

The word for the day is "plastic."

All,

Just because Zenyatta has won as many races as Ruffian doesn't mean that she is better than her. Ruffian had won those races without even being whipped!! And, Zenyatta is not the best racing filly of all time. Neither is Rachel Alexandra. Both horses are certainly spectacular in every way...

Mike S,

    The high weight Curlin carried last year was 132lbs, if your talking about in America, you are correct, but for all year his first race of the year and in Dubai he carried 132. If you are trying to speak for the whole east coast in saying if Zen just raced in NY we'd say nothing, well i would. I may not say go to Cali, but i'd say go to FL, AK, NJ, etc. To be great you have to be able to prove you can take your race wherever more than just once. I don't care if she races on turf, and honestly if she came to KY and raced at Keeneland on synthetic i still don't care, she is proving she can go places and still run. I was the same with Curlin last year, do i care if you can race on turf and synthetics, no, i care if you can race in any state, any coast or continent. Zenyatta has done that but once, so far RA has done it four or five times and Curlin seven i believe. Zenyatta will now get the wieght test as did Curlin last year, if she passes it will please me, but not impress me, as i believe a horse her size should be able to handle it. Also right now i will be happy if they just face males, i don't care where, it can be in Cali just do it. I would like her to come out run at different tracks, but i really want to see her against males, thats my biggest thing. For me there is no east coast bias.

RE: Personal Ensign never leaving NY...yes, Curchill Downs, plus I think the Molly Pitcher Stakes is at Monmouth?

Ted from LA, you caught that "word" LOL!!

helsbells,

    I forget where but i read that the owners of Zen would love to race against the boys, but leave the decision of her races to JS. LIS owners, actually seem to want to choose. I forget where i read that but i do remember reading it.

Alyssa,

When and where was Zenyatta ever whipped? I don't recall such an occurence but I may be wrong. Maybe you have some facts to present...?

Maybe Mr. Jackson doesn't know how to pronounce synthetics. :)

However, since Rachel Alexandra has already raced and won on this type of track, I find it a little puzzling that he is quoting "plastic" as his reason for not racing his filly in the BC.

Fergawdssakes!  Handicaps are races where horses get different weights depending on who the handicapper thinks is the best horse, with the intention of having all the horses finish (in a perfect world)together.  

They are NOT unfair.  They are HORSE RACING.  They've been around as Grade 1's and Group 1's for as long as there has been horse racing and they make horse racing interesting.

Supposedly we are all race horse fans and I presume we all want to see horses race.  Owners can decide to do whatever they want but if they want a championship season, they must let their horses actually RACE and not just cherry pick the easy pickings and whine about not being considered for year end honours at the end of a year spent avoiding anything that might allow your horse to lose.

On the other hand, if all they want to do is win more races and money easily, they can keep their horse home in their little backyard.

Saratoga AJ, if RA beats the boys one more time, or beats all the girls all the time, she might get HOY unless Einstein pulls off a Gr1 on dirt to match his Gr 1's on turf and synthetic, and/or wins the BC Classic...or, Well Armed comes back and wins a Gr 1 and the BC Classic to go with his Dubai win OR Mine That Bird or Summer Bird dominate in all their races in the fall campain...including beating her if they meet again...still looks kinda open to me at this point, ;-)

Jason: "If you decide to keep her only in California, do you think people might hold that against you when it comes time for Eclipse Award voting"?

Shirriffs: "I'm sure. There is absolutely an East Coast bias when it comes to that".

Sure John, that bias you refer to just happens to be the best, most famous, and historic race tracks in the country....Saratoga, Belmont, Churchill and Pimlico. You want a champ? Bring her to the tracks where all the great ones have run. Instead of beating allowance horses on the fake surfaces in California. What a waste of a talented mare.  

Mike S no one compared Peppers Pride to Secretariat or Man

O'War. But she won 19 races in a row and was never defeated. Many were stakes races. So she makes the history books whether you agree or not. She deserves the adjective "great" for those stats alone. As someone else said, if it was easy, this would have happened years ago and we wouldn't be talking about it now. I have no problem with calling her great.

OK, great, PERSONAL ENSIGN vanned to Monmouth and won, and then won her last race at Churchill Downs. ZENYATTA ran probably the best race of her life when she shipped to Oaklawn and won the Apple Blossom last year. So ZENYATTA has already shipped and won. She's a brilliant, fantastic and great mare. I don't care if she runs in the same races every year.

CURLIN's 132 pound impost came in an extremely weak field in Dubai. 128 pounds was his highest impost here in the USA, and he won, and I was happy to see him win. I love CURLIN.

Oh no...not again...here we go...here comes the "PEPPER'S PRIDE is a great horse" club. Do they do it to be sarcastic? She's a nice filly, wish I owned her, and I think she deserves a lot of credit for what she accomplished, but she's not "great." Not only would ZENYATTA beat her by double digit lengths, but so would TOUGH TIZ'S SIS, HYSTERICALADY, GINGER PUNCH, BEAR NOW, COCOA BEACH, MUSIC NOTE, etc., etc., etc,...you get the idea.

What is it with these people who keep saying that ZENYATTA is "beating up on the same horses" and "beating up on allowance horses" in California who then say that RACHEL ALEXANDRA is the greatest thing ever? ZENYATTA beat all the best fillies and mares in training, this year and last, while RACHEL ALEXANDRA has only defeated one good field of runners (in the Preakness). RACHEL ALEXANDRA's victims in her other races this year and not very good horses, but they might succeed at the NW1 level or something. ZENYATTA beat the best, and there is nothing you can do or say to erase that. Sorry.

I think Jess Jackson is realizing he doesn't have Ruffian that's why they are not going to the Breeder's Cup with Rachel, what a cop out.  And people think this guy is good for racing..? He has one good point about the synthetic surfaces,  they due favor turf runners.  That was evident last year when Raven's Pass won the Synthetic Classic,  has that horse been bronzed yet. I mean coming over from europe to run on rubberized grass and winning, shouldn't he be bronzed for that..?

Mike I am with you I love Curlin too it was sad to see him go because he raced anywhere and owners were not afraid to run him anywhere! Got to love horses that physically look like beasts. I feel QR will be a beast when he comes back he has the qualities to be a superstar!

Mike S,

   Other than Life is Sweet the feild Zen is gonna face is weak aswell. Curlin ran with 132 for his first race back and first race on another continent. His 128 came in his first race back in the states and he was giving away at least 10lbs, which according to most is 10 lengths. The most he gave was 18lbs, the same as Zen. If she is as great as she is said she will win as easily as Curlin did both times he ran under weight.

    Bottom Line, Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra are both Incredible Fillies in their own right.  They will never meet on the track, Am I disappointed, Yes, But the connections of each are doing right by the horse.  All this Couda, Shouda, Woulda really is interesting and makes for a good argument on both sides, but it is impossible to say who is better, They will never race against each other.  I respect both Owners for doing right by their horse, They don't need to appease the fans, If it isn't a perfect scenario for the horse, then why bother?  Also, To say Zenyatta has faced nobody is just an insane statement, She has faced the top fillies the sport has, and has won them all.  The most amazing aspect(IMO) of Zenyatta, is that all ten of her Victories have come from dead last down the stretch.  You know hom many things can go wrong coming from last to first down the stretch?, Plenty, And that has never fazed her, She has proven her Greatness each time she has been asked!  Even if Zenyatta wins the Breeders Cup, Will She get HOY honors this year?, Probably not, That honor could go to Einstein, Rachel, Mine that Bird, or a host of others, the year is only half over.  In the best case scenario, She will go 4-0, and end her Career 14-0.  Anytime you go Undefeated, Regardless of the varibles involved, It is quite an amazing achievment!  That argument also applies to the Great(Yes, I said Great) Filly, Pepper's Pride.

    I know this argument will continue until the cows come home, which makes for great banter back and forth, But, Really, What does it prove?  There is no one that can dispute that these two are truely amazing athletes, Right?  And as of today, We have learned that they will never meet on the track, Right?,  So what purpose does it serve to belittle each horse, each owner, each trainer?  This argument just seems pointless to me at this point.  Nothing can be said that will alter any plans for these two.  Is it impossible to just say that they are BOTH Phenomenal, Beautiful Athletes in their own right, and BOTH have the heart of a Champion?, And leave it at that?, Probably not, But that is how I feel on these two great Fillies...

Mike S,

    You are forgetting that CT was a fluke, Hysterical Lady and GP hated Synthetics, TTS almost beat Zen, and LIS did not like Hollywood Parks track either. Also so far this year both Cocoa Beach and MN have finished off the board. RA can run against anyone and still win anywhere, Zen has beaten most of her competition on her home turf. That is why we complain. If Zen had gone out and beaten those horses on their home turf or on a track neither was based at it would hold more weight.

Excuuuuuse me!!! But wasn't Peppers Pride 19 for 19? That makes her great in my book and I don't see that record going down any time soon. That does not take anything away from the other also wonderful and talented fillies you named and whom I also adore, especially Ginger Punch and Hystericalady, both of whom I miss so much.

LDP,

Isn't Life Is Sweet running in the Gold Cup instead of facing Zenyatta again? I don't know about you, but it tells me a lot...

No worries, Greg J. Hopefully Rachel will stay around long enough to be in the handicap division next year and won't be retired to the breeding shed at the ripe old age of three.

I think a match race between Rachel and Zenyatta is outside of any realm of possibility, but here's a question to those who would like to see it. Would you allow Rachel the standard 5 lb weight allowance for age?

TED FROM LA

You're way off like usual!

ZOOKEEPER

Everything you said is correct! Great points,too bad others' have issues in giving a truly great horse their due. That's cause they don't have a clue.

I don't understand all the bashing Zenyatta has gotten',she's proven her greatness over & over again.Every horseman knows that 2 of the most prestigious events a distaffer can win is the Apple Blossom @ Oaklawn and the BC(distaff)races.If you're in the top-tier of the F/M category,then you most certainly point towards such races,and Zenyatta won both easily...against the best at the time. A defending Champ like Zen' has earned the right to race wherever her people seem fit,regardless of coasts/racetracks/opponents. If any horsemen think they can beat her,they know where to find her...come get some!! Simple as that! Why should a Champ like Zenyatta have to adjust her campaign according to her opponents?..Like someone else said; 'if it's good enough for Personal Ensign,it's good enough for Zenyatta.

Looks like RA's people already have an excuse for not being able to face the Amazon come Breeders Cup....pathetic in my opinion.

Saratoga AJ:  thanks for proving our point when "we" bring-up the obvious Eastcoast-bias regarding "all" sports & life in general.It's funny how most of ya'll think the World revolves around you folks.There's been way too many Cali. horses that have shipped East and took the Biggest races out there for me to start mentioning. And,I hope you're not insinuating that Santa Anita,Del Mar and Hollywood Park are a bunch of Bull-ring like atmospheres?...check your jaw-jacking!

MonicaV

I don't think the Saturn 5 could beat Zenyatta LOL.  She is just too good.  :)

Mike Relva.... My emails are messed up and my pc is too.  I'll get this stuff fixed soon.  :)

STARDUSTYROSE

Ok,thanks! Hope to hear from you soon.

Ok,for those that's slammed Zenyatta are you going to give Jackson a "free pass" or comment regarding his decision not to race Rachel in the Breeders?

TO:IDA LEE

I've stated the same thing regarding PP. Glad to see you feel the same. Some "experts" can't give the horse her due. I truly think she was a very good horse. I didn't see anyone saying they would bring their horses to New Mex. to race her.

Quick picking on Pepper's Pride:

She did what her owners asked her to do.  It's not her fault that she didn't race against top horses, but she still is great in my mind.  To say that if she went up agains Rachel or Zenyatta and would lose by double didget lengths might be true and it might not be, but don't diminish what she has accomplished by downgrading her.

Zookeeper,

    You are correct, though honestly i think Zenyatta should be the one racing there. That should tell you how much i think this mare can do. You people say the best in the east come get her, well, what happens if QR gets better, he can't race her because she's strictly fillies. Any of the top colts can't face her because she races only against fillies, so i don't get how they are suppose to seek her out. I think she has huge potential, but how does racing on a powder puff sheduel qualify you as being great or a champion?

Here is just my personal take on Zen being defending champ. She is, of the fillies, she did not win HOTY last year, therefore she is not top dog of everyone. This year the title is open, since defending champ Curlin is retired, which means happy hunting, and may the best season win. Both RA and Zen have a good chance of going unbeaten this year, but don't forget about Einstien, who i believe is Classic bound. QR is on his return, and if i can't see a match of Zen and RA, i want QR and RA. Both have simalar styles which will make for a virtual match within the race. Anywho, any horse can claim it and if Einstein continues to do well, RA continues to a unbeaten or close to unbeaten season, QR come back strong, MTB struts his stuff, or SB decides he wants to dance, Zen won't be in the running at all with the schedule she's on. IMHO she will need a win against males, or blow the feild open in the Distaff or something huge to get into contention. The three year olds overall are a great crop, you have MTB, MM, POTN, QR, CM, BD, and you get the point. Some of these RA already beat, if she comes back and does it again, Zen won't beat her for HOTY. There's my take disagree if you wish.

Mike Relva...

Yeah well this is what I have to say to RA not in the Breeders Cup.  CHICKEN!!!!!!!  This is the most absurd thing I have seen in my whole experience with racing.  Come on we really have the right to see the two beautiful fillies race on the same track in the same gate, at the same distance, heading for the same wire, on the SAME DAY in the SAME RACE!  LOL

No question Rachel is on top right now---she's HOY right now---But criticize Team Zenyatta? Why? The Cup's at Santa Anita (again) so criticize the BCup if you must, but last I checked, that horse has won ALL her races, last I checked they sent her to Oaklawn in '08, and Churchill (intending to run) in '09--that's exactly two cross country treks to ZERO cross country treks for Team Rachel---and now the whiners are starting up with their "why doesn't she ship East" mantras---and to the "newbies" out there, since I can remember they have lamented bringing horses West---when they were all dirt tracks out West, it was always "the West coast dirt tracks are not like ours",like nowadays it's the "fake tracks out West"---before synthetics, it was  "the FAKE dirt tracks out West"...alwats some reason not to ship/take on Western horses---I was at the '03 Cup and there were the same Eastern Barns no-showing, and for the same reasons as the whiners are saying now--"I don't like their tracks"...and that was a DIRT track they were avoiding....I mean, I ran track and field, ran on crushed brick, ran on cinders, ran on rubber tracks as well---I handled them all with equal results, you could use me underneath but leave me off the top two rungs of your exotics! But c'mon, why argue?! We're talking about a guy (Sherriffs) who has saddled a mare who runs lights out, I mean lights out--every time! I love both horses, I really do! If Zenyatta were to go back East and lose to Rachel, I would not give her a mulligan, it seems some fans are allready giving one for Rachel for if she comes west, and if she loses to Zen...the point is this: The Breeders Cup is at Santa Anita and that's where they'll have their "Duel In The Sun"....all I'm saying is "come early for the Lady's Secret"---let's do two!

I read what JJ said, and it's as clear as day he is afraid to send RA up against Zen. What a handy-dandy EXCUSE "plastics" makes!! Good way to save face!

In reading the first paragraph again, and I read it carefully, especially between the lines just to be sure, I bet that he will enter RA in the BC if he races her next year,(pretty sure he will) AFTER ... way AFTER Zen has retired. Betcha!!

ZENYATTA!!! = Queen

Rachel Alexandra = Princess

Zenyatta raced seven times last season---over five track surfaces, four tracks, won them all, did ALL that was asked of her---was beaten by a horse that did not do all that was asked of him--indeed, few if any would suggest she doesn't smoke him if they met in BCup---they shun her perfect season so if I'm the owner/trainer, I just say kiss your HOY award, we'll just plug away with this freak of a closer with a move the likes of which has not and may never be seen again--

Peppers Pride was a great horse who I would pay to see---NOBODY feels good every day--when you see a horse that gets the $ every time, you're seeing something rare---at any level, a horse that wins race after race after race is a great athlete, great animal, great horse!

Saratoga AJ Know what they called the tracks out West in the 70's??? Fake dirt.....

Jess Jackson is such a HYPOCRITE. It is certainly, obviously "doing what's best for racing" to NOT go to the BC. RA has WON on a synthetic surface(right?). It's not her that doesn't like it, it's HIM. He's just a big effing baby. So my conclusion is- He's clearly aware that RA couldn't beat Zenyatta and if Z beats RA then there goes HOY so it's clearly in HIS best interest to stay away from Cali.(as RA is already proven over the synthetic). I am so disappointed with him.

Pepper's Pride was awesome! She never lost in 19 lifetime starts. If she was a donkey I would still be impressed by that. "Perfect" records don't come along very often, at least not by horses who start more than 3 times, people should ENJOY it when it happens(you are very unlikely to see anything like it again). I celebrated her last 9 races. I don't think anyone who is in the "fan club"(lol) thinks she is up there with the Greats in talent, but her acclomplishment IS the new high bar that's been set for all others to take a shot at. I'm proud to be a fan of hers. Even if RA ran and won 14 more times in a row she wouldn't have done what Pep did, go undefeated. Zen possibly could break her record but won't. I say Pep couldn't have beaten them on the track but she will certainly beat them both in the record books.

Stardusty,

    It works both ways, why can't Zen run over on the dirt, since she loves it so much. The Cup is way off in November, so one little race won't hurt her. Zen was too chicken earlier in the year to run on an off track, which horses do all the time. Must everything be perfect for her highness? You people are such hypocrites, you said last year that Zen didn't have to face Curlin to dethrone him, even though he truely was king of the hill. Now this year you spin it around and say that Zen is champ and RA has to beat her. One Zen is Champ in Cali against older mares, not against anyone else. Just because Curlin is retired doesn't mean she automaticly takes his spot, she's gotta earn it, and so far all she's done is win one race agaist fillies in Cali, big whoop. Her next race is against an extremely week feild, and if she does lose, and she shouldn't, then it's because she's not that great, not weight. The chicken as of now is Zen, i don't see her trying  colts, or shipping state to state to find competition. RA this year has been to four different track and states. She came back off two weeks and beat the Derby winner, and Derby runner up. She has won everything everyone has wanted her to do this season. All Zen has done is win one race, again against fillies and in Cali, again. In what does this scream champion, and in what way does RA's season as of now scream chicken. I believe the roles are reversed.

Barb,

    While you are correct, it was an allowence at Keeneland that RA won. It's not like she won the Lanes End, plus the surface here and the Pro ride are about as different as earth is from Mercury. JJ did what the fans wanted last year and look what happened, why would you want to repeat the experience when he could run the filly in the Travers, putting togeather a field that contains possibly all three winners in the TC, plus MM, and early derby fav QR. That will draw a huge crowd. Then why not race her against older fillies, or as he sujested the TT. RA is going for things Zens connections would never even try. All Zen's connections are doing is keeping her in Cali in the same races she ran last year. In what way is that good for racing? If your going to be dissapointed in JJ, you have to be in the connections of Zen aswell.

Matthew W, RIGHT ON!!

MattW,

    What was asked of Zen and what was of Curlin were two way different things. Curlin was asked to run on another continent, come back run under 128lbs. He was asked to run on all three surfaces, and over five different tracks. After crossing an ocean he was asked to cross the country. He was asked to face whoever wished to face him, and he still never ran out of the money. Zen was may have been asked to run over four tracks, but it was within two states, restricted to fillies. Curlin was constantly taken from his comfort zone, while Zen remained in hers. Curlin may not have won, but he showed up each time and ran respetably each time, even in loss. He deserved HOTY based on what he did, how much he did and how he did it, and he did more than Zen.

Mike S, it is irrelevant whether Peppers Pride could beat Zenyatta or Daffy Duck for that matter. If we are going to play that game, Zenyatta couldn't beat Secretariat, Citation, Man O' War, Seabiscuit, Seattle Slew and the list goes on. But it doesn't undermine either of their accomplishments. Look at what they HAVE DONE, not what they haven't done. What a waste of mental energy to list the horses they couldn't beat, geesh. I mean really, it's not like she ran against plow horses. It's irrelevant to the discussion as to who she couldn't beat. I have no problems calling Peppers Pride one great horse for 19 straight wins. I won't be forgetting her name in a hurry.

Perhaps we have differences of opinion about the definition or use of the word "great."  For example, I think there is a huge difference between calling a horse great and one of the greatest horses of all time. We are talking apples and oranges here.

Rachel doesn't have to prove anything to anybody. That ugly Pro Ride would not be good for her so why go across the country to prove what? that she's a great filly? Well, she's already great folks. I'd rather she be around as a 4-year old and race in the BC at CD if at all. You want to race against her, you come to where she is. And by the way, since when does Zenyatta have to race Rachel to prove her worth. She already has her place in racing history.

As for Peppers Pride she is a champ in her own right!

The eastern bias is only apparent from a distance. When you're sitting in the middle of it you are not aware of it's gigantic scope. Sort of like the legendary forest and the trees.

Oh well! :)

I just love Peppers Pride.

Her story would make a great movie, especially for kids, with its too-good-to-be-true feel. Folks have said that the movie "Dreamer" was far-fetched, but Peppers' story is even harder to believe, and it's true. Wait a while on the movie, though, because I have a feeling that her career as a broodmare may be just as exciting.  

sweet terchi

Sooooooooooo true!  :)

Resting Zenyatta after running in and winning 4 G1's and 3 G2's from 7 starts in 2008 was the right move. She has only run once this year and to run out of her division and against the boys before she is at peak condition would be foolish. Carrying the weight and staying  home is in the best interest of their horse. Staying undefeated in 2or 3 more races in Cal. and then winning the Breeders Cup Classic against the boys would make her Horse of the Year no matter what the other contenders do. I hope that's their plan.

Jess Jackson's has done a lot of good for racing. Reforming practices at the sales and running Curlin across the country has left a positive influence on racing. He is a sportsman and a competitor. That said I believe that Rachel ran in the Preakness not for racing and not for Rachel but for her new owner's ego. It would have been better for racing if we had a horse going for the triple crown. Run Rachel against the boys latter in the Haskil or the Travers and then in the Breeders Cup against Zenyatta would have given her the best chance at Horse of the year. Jesss is making a statment, he does not believe in plastic and he does not believe Rachel can win on it. (or against Zenyatta on it)

Rachel amazing filly whose time will come.(hopefully). I'm a big fan. Hopeful Rachel will be horse of the year next year with the Breeders Cup at churchill.(and Zenyatta retired)

Which brings me back to the brain trust at The Breeders Cup. If they had not run at Santa Anita 2 years running we would not be cheated out of seeing these two great champions compete against each other.  

I hope the newly elected trustees wake up the sleeping dogs.

Zenyatta beat BC champion Ginger Punch twice.  Once on dirt in the Apple Blossom and once on the synthetic in the 2008 Breeder's Cup.  I don't get the comments that she has not faced real competition.    

LDP and Mik G

It's great to have fans  so excited and passionate about these two great horses.

Carlos:

"And,I hope you're not insinuating that Santa Anita,Del Mar and Hollywood Park are a bunch of Bull-ring like atmospheres"?

The sad truth is the California tracks are not even the same as they were in racing's hayday. Santa Anita is your most famous and historic track, but it has been fowled by a plastic surface, as have the other tracks in California. That's not the same track that greats like Seabiscuit once ran on.

I stand by my earlier comments. The tracks of champions are Churchill, Pimlico, Belmont and Saratoga. The same tracks where Man'O'War, Secretariat, Native Dancer, Citation, and the rest of the all time greats made their imprint on racing history.

Zenyatta should not be denied a chance to show what she can do at these great racing venues.

At least Zenyatta's connections have given rivals the same courtesy that JJ gave Curlin's rivals last year: The schedule is announced, and if you want to try her, come and run.

LDP, you criticize Zenyatta for not running in open company, yet her races are more open that Rachel's (which is not surprising given the time of year). Rachel runs in the Mother Goose, open only to 3YOs. Next, JJ says, he would love to go in the Travers, open only to 3YO. After that, there is no announced schedule.

People, what are the Zenyatta connections expected to do? Ship east and then hang around to see where Rachel decides to go and then hope the conditions are open. You can't train a horse that way. They've said their goal is the BC and they're trying to get her there the way they think best. Rachel's goal is not the BC, despite her own win on "plastic," so they will have another, as yet unannouced, schedule for her. So be it.

LDP, you're quite right about Zenyatta not being top dog. She's top dog of the ladies, but she has yet to take on the boys. Unless she goes undefeated another season without racing the boys, I'm not too sure she'll get HOTY. Don't get me wrong, she'll be a contender, but I just don't think she'll take home the prize without taking on the boys. I personally think it would be AWESOME if both Zenyatta AND Rachel Alexandra run in the BC Classic. Not the Ladies' Classic, the Classic. Against the boys. Against each other. Totally awesome and quite 3-hour-long-pre-race-hype-including-sentimental-video worthy if I do say so myself. And Tracy W., you're awesome. People who haven't walked in that particular trainer's shoes and who don't know his/her horses shouldn't be the ones calling the shots. Or trying to, anyways. That's why I try to keep my mouth shut about trainers' and jockeys' decisions; because I don't know what it's like to be in their place. All I'm saying about Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra is that it would be very exciting to see them run in the Classic, not only against each other, but against the boys. I think a win or an on the board finish there could go a long way in deciding who takes home HOTY honors this year.

Life Is Sweet is the wildcard in the deck. LIS is a great filly, Zen beat LIS but LIF ran a very good race on a track not to her liking. Since RA is ducking Zen, maybe LIF will get a shot at RA. If so my money will be on LIF. I don't see how RA could get away with dodging both Zen and LIF, particully if Zen wins carring 129 lbs and LIS beats the boys at Gold Cup. Seems to me both Zen and LIS (if they win) could put a lot of pressure on RA to face at least one of them. Best of luck to Zenyatta and Life is Sweet in thier next start.

"Rags won with her allowance" of 5 lbs in the Belmont...but she raced at least 2 to 3 wider than Curlin all the way around.  Around those wide Belmont turns she spotted Curlin at least 5-10 lengths back, more than making up the weight differential.

Rachel went right to the lead in the Preakness, but then had everything her way.  If she had carried the same weight, Mine That Bird would've beaten her...that's the big deal.

I agree if Zenyatta's owners are gonna take it easy, then Zenyatta will have to carry more weight to make it fair.  

I thought Sherrifs had an issue with gender but it can't be at this point cuz he's putting Life is Sweet in with boys.  It's the Mosses.  

I was just wanting to know if he plains on running her in the Breeders cup and if so what race i would like to see her compete against the boys in a classic for once give her some real compation and that would set her up for horse of the year in my opion but before we get to that point she has to win this weekend forther more i find it ofly funny that rachel alexandras owners backed out of the Breeders cup my question to these people is what are they so afraid of.  SHe won the preakness everyone wants to see her against Zeynatta that would drawl a big crowd but they must have chickened out and that would setal who the best filliy is for the year instead we are going to have that question till they vote on horse of the year.  If you take a look at both there records Zenyatta to me has the better winning persuit but here is where Rachel might have the advantage big races like the oaks and like the preakness.  Unforthanitly i think that the one that wins is what matters.  And i would personnally like to tell you who is the best but judging by the blog this is.  

LDP

The true definition of chicken is Jess Jackson, not the Zenyatta crew.

It would seem that there are people who just won't give Rachel her due for the Preakness.  I really don't believe that if she hadn't had the 5 pound allowance that she would have lost.  She weighs 100 pounds more than MTB so she carries that much more weight than he does.  I just don't believe that 1 pound equals one length on a horse weighing 1100 pounds.  I don't believe that MTB would have beaten her had the weights been equal.  5 pounds?  I just don't see that.  But the fact of the matter is she won the race.

Last year I remember reading AFTER Zenyatta destroyed all comers including Ginger Punch at Oaklawn that the East Coast writer was STILL determined to recognize Ginger Punch as the champion until defeated in the BC race.  What East Coast Bias? Ha

I also recall that Secretariat was a champion on all surfaces even winning his final race in track record time in Canada on the TURF.

Curlin was a very good horse and perhaps only lost on the turf and Pro-Ride simply because he was tired and campaigned too much (seeking the gold).  Perhaps the real reason for Curlin's slump at the end of the year was tiredness - not PLASTICS!

JJ wasn't thinking of running Rachel in the Ladies Classic, he was thinking of the BC Classic so it's not as though he was ducking Zenyatta and he has been known to change his mind.  Rachel may well be running in the BC.  JJ likes to do this sort of thing.  Remember he wasn't going to run Curlin in the BC Classic?  He did though, didn't he?

LDP,

"Zen was too chicken earlier..." I'm sure you are aware that horses do NOT make any decision on their racing schedule. Zenyatta is a  magnificent mare and should not be called names in order to advance one's point of view. It defeats the purpose.

Saratoga AJ those "tracks of champions" you mentioned are all EAST COAST TRACKS---that is the way it's always been, not just now that they run on plastics out West, as well as Keeneland---it has always been that way, whine on about synthetics, fact is they whined about the West coast tracks when they were dirt tracks too so nothing has changed, if you have to whine, whine about the BCup going to that big bad fake track for two years in a row, but they only had the best fields of Euros in Cup history last year!

"Who is Ack Ack".....that is the Final Jeopardy answer for "He was/is the ONLY horse to stay out West and win HOY"....only one horse....how many East Coast horses have stayed East and won HOY?...can you say biased???...

I stated earlier that I was disappointed in Zenyatta's connections for being ultra conservative with her schedule.  Now I am equally disappointed in Jess Jackson for his anti-BC pronouncement. Repeatedly using the word "plastic" sounded juvenile, I thought.  California racing always has been and still is historically important.  The CHRB took a proactive, though controversial, approach to improving track safety for the horses, and I just feel that JJ, as a great proponent of and ambassador for the sport, should have been more diplomatic.

Everyone knows he did not want to run Curlin in last year's BC, but he did and Curlin lost.  We don't know if Curlin disliked the surface that much, if Curlin was slightly off form after a long year, or if the Euros were just super-talented horses.  It is just a shame that the most exciting filly in a long while will not meet up with the best older mare because of something that happened last year.

However, I am holding out hope that someone changes their mind and does something different at some point so that the fans are not disappointed.  Anticipation is so much a part of enjoying racing; who actually wins the race  sometimes almost seems like an afterthought.

Whether you love or hate Santa Anita and its synthetic track, it is still the Breeders' Cup and the place where horses with championship aspirations should compete.  I applaud JJ for his decision last year with Curlin, I do think it did a lot for the sport, and I would like to see him reconsider this year.  After all, Rachel is a completely different horse.

I would also like to see Zenyatta step out of her comfort zone.  If that turns out to be the BC Classic instead of the Ladies, that is good enough for me.

Matthew W,

I agree with you. That big bad fake track has given us the opportunity to enjoy the Euros in person. All the whining in the world is not going to change a thing about the location of this year's BC. More would be accomplished by the connections of dirt horses if they were willing to prepare their horses for the big event.

The trainer of Summer Bird, Tim Ice, took the time to ship his horse quite a bit in advance of the Belmont to give him a chance to acclimate and to make any adjustments necessary to ensure a good effort by his horse at the Big Sandy. It paid off.

There's a big lesson there but few will take it in. If the connections (not the horses) choose to pout and stay away it is their right and I won't argue with their decision. I will simply go to Santa Anita again this year and enjoy the heck out of it with or without the dirt specialists.

This Zenyatta vs. RA discussion is all fine & dandy,but the reality is; they're on 2 totally different schedules. The Amazon is an older mare,and RA will stick to facing her 3yo counter-parts(albeit f/c). The only feasible chance for these 2 butting-heads were put to rest when JJackson declared RA out of the BC for his own,obviously inexcusable reason(s). He's basically assuming RA will not like,or be at a disadvantage @ Santa Anita's track...(pretty quick to pull the trigger IMO)...I remember Cocoa Beach & Musical Note running outstanding,winning races in last year's BC Ladies Classic against Zenyatta in their 1st try on synthetics.It just so happens that the Amazon is in a league of her own,therefore the only logical conclusion is RA's people are simply too scared to face the Queen.Even if the BC were held on a dirt course,I still think RA would've been entered in the race Zenyatta wasn't.

LDP...You say the Cali tracks are as different as Earth and Mercury, well so are Churchill and Belmont. No two tracks are the same, every dirt track is different as is every turf course. I couldn't count the times I've heard that horses either like CD or they hate it. You call Zen a chicken? She would run down the freeway if she was asked to, possibly the Mosses are like all of the people who "remember(insert dead horse here)" and chose to scratch because of the off track. I would hope you are aware that it is PEOPLE who make the decisions NOT the horses. As for my being mad at the connections of Z, they never preened in front of the cameras proclaiming that "the best should run with the best" or "I want to do what's best for racing". I have never heard them say anything but that they want to enjoy their horse and her success. I DO wish they would come up with a more exciting schedule for her (I'm going to the Hollywood Gold Cup and would've loved to see her there) and hope they choose to run in the Classic instead of the Distaff at BC. You also bring up RA running in the Travers instead of the BC, I'm sure horses who run in the Travers will make the BC, they always have before. And who cares if it was an allowance win(for RA) over the poly, her Oaks win was in no better company. She clearly handled the surface and that is the issue not what type of race it was. I think she would probaly run well on the grass too. JJ didn't "do" anything for "the fans" last year. He tried Curlin on the grass, Curlin finished a good second in between BC Turf winners, so because he didn't win JJ pouted and said forget racing on turf(even though Curlin always did better the second time over a track). Then he decided to be a martyr and come to Cali for BC but didn't let the horse learn the track (I believe he worked once at SA before the BC). And look what happened? He finished 4th. Was that the end of the world?? He wasn't hurt, he won HOY...what "happened" that was so terrible? JJ got his panties in a bunch, that's "what happened". The Breeders Cup World Championships are where THE BEST MEET THE BEST and if you don't go you are either injured or NOT the best.

Monica V...I agree about the weight issue. I don't think it made a difference to RA, she could've carried 5 lbs more than MTB and still won. Also Rags.

And there is SOOO an east coast bias! Cali tracks used to be "like running on cement" now they are "fake". Always with the excuses.

LDP

My belief is that Zenyatta could run on water.  :)  

LDP 'Zen was too chicken earlier...' really? First off, Zenyatta's owners who control where the horse runs & they have never ducked any competition. They've beaten every filly & mare out there and if they were to meet, Rachel A would fall short. Zenyatta is built like a tank, has an amazingly long powerful stride and has never truly been tested. Rachel v. Zen would be a great matchup for racing, but if they're not going to bring Rachel to the Breeder's Cup, it will be Rachel's camp who would be ducking the champion, not the champion who won't face the up and commer.

Hope they allow Zen to run one outside of Cali, I'd love to see her silence theos who doubt her

Stardusty,

    She's too big, her butt would sink. I know your belief, and it mirrors your belief nobody can beat Nicanor.

Lady Ruffian,

    The only time Zen beat anyone was in the AB. In the distaff GP and Hysterical lady both hated the surface, so they didn't run a great race, CT was a fluke if i ever saw one, and what has Bear Now done since? MN has done nothing this year, and CB i think finished 4th of four in her last. Wow what a great field. When she goes out of state and wins again against some real horses, or faces colts let me know.

Workhorse,

    Thank you for the compliment. Horses, especially racers, have and will be the passion of my life.

TO:LAZMANNICK

Thank you for defending Zenyatta. Your loyality is appreciated. I love this horse and been on her from the very start of her remarkable career,also admire her connections cause the illustrate the "right way" of putting the horse first regardless what some crybaby fans think!

To me, Zenyatta is the Queen and Rachel Alexandra is the Princess.

Royalty, no matter what.

Still dislike assigned weights.  Let the runners run.

It's a bit vacant to say Zen is a chicken since she doesn't make the decisions, her connections do. For my part I heard Jackson clucking and squawking pretty down loud.

Matthew W:

"those tracks of champions you mentioned are all EAST COAST TRACKS"

Since when is Churchill Downs an East Coast track? Check out the map! And if you want to get technical, neither is Saratoga.

The fact remains that Churchill, Belmont, Saratoga and Pimlico are the most historic and famous tracks in the country. Where all the greats have run. I'd love to see Zenyatta show what she could do at any of those great racing venues.

Would you people just give it a break. If all you can do is nit pick at my post you are all getting pretty darn pathetic. By Zenyatta i mean her connections, it's called reading between the lines.

LOLOLOL Ok LDP. Zen has danced every dance that her owners have put her in, and not only has she won - she's won with ease. I too would love to see her run against the boys because lets face it- she's beaten every filly woth beating & besides Rachel theres nobody left. Oh and LDP if you'd like play the 'she never beat anyone game' tell me; who has Rachel beaten? An off his game Pioneer? An injured Friesan Fire? A horse who was originally labled a fluke? When she takes on some real competition; say Stardom Bound or Quality Road let me know ok?

& before you go trying to attack StardustyRose for her Nicanor belief - realize that it is a very rare maiden winner who scores a triple digit beyer. ;)

...LDP:  your obsession with RA has you going coo-coo. MN is a multiple Gr.I winner,she's raced only once so far this year(made an early move & flattened-out),watch what she does the rest of the year. CB is also a Gr.I winner on dirt/turf who's first race back was also short-looking.Don't forget that both of these Distaffers were coming off of a 7month lay-off.They're both proven quality horses,period.Plus a "fluke" doesn't win Graded stakes on multiple surfaces like CT did,do they?..Point being; Zenyatta has proven herself to be top-class against any and all,on Synth/dirt and out-of-state too. I'm not a Zenyatta apologist or her biggest fan,but I want to see RA beat a solid group of horses other than the tired colts in the Preakness or the allowance type of fillies she's whupped on her "tour".RA is a very good filly,but not on Zen's level just yet. BTW--had IWR,QR or The Pamplemousse been sound,folks wouldn't be talking this non-sense about RA being leading 3yo/HOTY contender right now would we?

C'mon,you're picking on the wrong horse to bash,..Zenyatta is legit,even Mike Relva would agree.

Carlos,

    How may grade ones has CT won? And what has she won since that fluke victory. Zenyatta was great enough to win off a layoff, why can't these so called great horses she beat do it too? Also don't bring mike into this he's a friend and i refuse to pick an argument with him.

Lady Ruffian,

   Your horse beat a bunch of flukes and horses that hated the track. The two who finished behind her have done nothing since. JJ plans on putting this filly in the Travers when she'll meet QR. When she wins i hope you'll eat your crow. On attacking Stardusty, i have nothing against Nicanor, but i even did the math and he ran only 94 exta feet. Granted the ground was horrible, but for him to run almost 1.53 is nothing special. He's good nown, but not unbeatable. My point is if you feel like that about a horse like him and make absurd comments why should i care what you believe.

Lady R,

   Also MTB has been found by many as legit, so yes he counts. MM was also a good horse, third in the Derby is good to me. FF and POTN i'll agree, but what about the others, are you telling me they all were injured or off their game? She like all came off a 2 week rest, and had also been running a race per 2.5 weeks on average.

Who said Nicanor is unbeatable? Every horse is beatable because none are machinces - flesh & blood and all are allowed to have 'bad days' That horse is on the improve & when he hits the board (again) perhaps people like you who seem to have nothing positive to say about animals who are not on your prefered list will start recognizing that he has talent. different from his brothers, but talent nonetheless.

I don't know what has you so up in arms and willing to malisciously attack anyone who has a different take or stand than what you do but it only makes you look like an obnoxious individual hell bent on pushing their view points on people who could care less.

I also don't see how Ginger Punch & Hystericalady are 'flukes' that reasoning should be expalined. Tell me also how a horse like Tough Tiz's Sis is a fluke? Zenyatta made her eat dust also. Who cares if the horses who came in behind Zen in the distaff have 'done nothing since' IMO they're not 'great' horses, they're solid competition. Consistant competitiors. Good runners. There is a huge differance between good and great and the word great gets thrown around far too freely.

so really LDP having an opinion is great, discussing an opinion in a construstive manner is great too; But coming off condescending is not only unnecessary but laughable as well. grow up. realize that people are going to have different stands on things & the way that you come off is abrasive & rude and makes you as unlikeable as Jess Jackson when he uses & reitterates the 'plastic' to make a point.

back to racing - i hope that both of the best ladies in the sport take their races tomorrow. i'll be at hollywood cheering on Big Z all the way to the finnish line

Gotta' love it..hee-hee.....Jason say something,you're too damn quiet.Hope you're not "Chessiefied"  }:

How about handicapping this weekends Stakes races with us.And what happened to the Live Blog thingy?  

LDP

I know that MTB is a legit horse. hence i said 'originaly labled a fluke.' I think you said it best. 'read between the lines.' and more than once I've said my praise for MTB and his owners. I think that little gelding is a wonderful asset to racing. and his owners seem like class acts. again hats off to MTB. and IMO if the Preakness was another furlong longer that brave little horse may have had Rachel. NOT diminishing from what she did by winning the Preakness, but really he was coming on so strong.

Lady R,

    If he was coming so strong why wasn't he past her in the next five strides after the wire. No horse unless you put a western bit in their mouth can stop running that fast when they are coming so quick, so either he was flattening out or RA dug back. Either way she beat him and he never got past her.

Lady R,

    Bear Now and CT are the flukes, and i've stated that the other two you listed hated the surface that is why i said zen beat flukes and horses that hated the surface. What got me mad in the first place is that many of you on here didn't have the scence to read between the lines, or you couldn't find anything else to challenge, so you found the dumbest thing to degrade my post by, the Zenyatta is a horse and can't make decisions thing. I know a horse can't make decisions, i use her name because she is associated also with her connections, it's easier than writing Zenyatta's connections every time. I actually like to debate, but to nit pick like that, and telling me Zen's a horse and can't make decisions is downright ignorant. Why because i know that, and say that to me is basicly like saying are you so stupid you can't tell a horse from a human? Maybe you didn't mean it that way but thats how it comes across, and it's insulting. I enjoy debates, thrive on them, i find them fun, but to nit pick at some thing like that over and over will end up setting me off.

Zenyatta is a 5 year old carrying 129 pounds and there are complaints out there...and then you look at Rache Alexandra who is no where near as big as Zenyatta this weekend and she is carrying the same weight...

I think it is a shame that we will NEVER know if Zenyatta was one of the best horses ever. She certainly is probably the best pro-ride surface mare of all time...but her owners and trainers refusing to meet Rachel Alexandra on the dirt is preventing us from knowing just how good she is.

I think she is beautiful and she has proven that she can win on dirt. And that is great. However, she has only faced lesser competition except in two races...her race on dirt and the Breeders Cup distaff...

If any mare can win against the males I would think it would be Zenyatta - and if any mare could beat Rachel Alexandra I would certainly think it would be Zenyatta...but we'll never see it and that is a darn shame...

At least the Eclipse voters got it right last year...Curlin was by far Horse of the Year...

I hope this year a filly is Horse of the Year -- Rachel Alexandra...

Ginger Punch obviously did not like the polytrack...

Granted GP did lose to her in the Apple Blossom - on dirt her surface...but for me that and the BC Distaff are Zenyatta's only meaningful wins against quality competition...and look where it was - on her home track.

We will never know if Zenyatta was one of the best mares never.

Sure, she'll get best older mare, but if Rachel is undefeated at the end of the year I bet she gets Horse of the Year because as a filly she has beat tougher competition. She has won against the boys.

If Zenyatta runs in the BC classic on her home track and wins...that will say something...and I bet then she would get HOTY but without that she's just another good filly...

She's the best mare in the west...and Rachel has proven she is one of the best horses -- maybe the best in the East.

Now, I think JJ was silly running Rachel in the Preakness...

I think her breeding is well suited to the Belmont -- and then she could have won a race Curlin didn't win...given JJ another classic and stopped a triple crown...which would have been a much bigger deal...IMHO

Zenyatta Doubter...Of the schedule I have seen for RA Z can't run in any of those races because she is (as you pointed out) 5. The possible races I have seen on RA's schedule are for 3 y/os (Travers,Haskell, Alabama). I have not read anything about her fall campaign except that she will not go to BC. I love how people expect Zen to go east to race RA but never take into account that RA hasn't opened herself up to older horses yet and they have no plans that I've seen to do so before fall at least. Also people keep talking about winning the Travers as if it is the end of the season, it's not. It is known as the "mid-summer Derby". And RA(and the other Mother Goose starters) will be carrying 121 lbs on Sat, not 129.

All I know is that my enthusiasm for RA has gone down the drain. Not because of her but because I just don't like seeing people like JJ rewarded. And I think I'm as mad at JJ for ruining my enjoyment of her as I am for him being such a hypocite. People have commented that if he hadn't bought her she wouldn't have run in the Preakness. Maybe not. But she would have run at the Breeders Cup.

Well that interview was about as vague as possible.  No real answers there at all!  I did read an article awhile back though that indicated that he doesn't favor running fillies with colts so that may be the answer to Zenyatta sticking with the girls.  As far as the 129 impost-from what I read trainers and owners are never happy with weight assignments but that is part of the challenge to great and potentially great horses.  It looks like that may be Zenyatta's only real challenge this year but I believe she is up to it!

LDP - its obvious that you're set in your opinions & thats all fine & great. but to say that the way that  im typing is ignorant because im not taking your 'easy' way is ignorant is simply foolish. you're not the only one who thrives on debates.

im glad you differentiated the fact that you know a horse from its human connections b/c when you type idiotic statements such is 'zen was too chicken earlier' your the one who looks ignorant.

BTW LDP in your 26 Jun 2009 7:42 PM post, i believe you meant 'sense' ;)

and either way, seeing that both horses won today - both against weak competition & that Zen's people want her to face Rachel, who's the 'chicken' now LDP?

glad to see both horses came home safely and am looking forward to when they meet up.

Barb:

You are correct. I was off on the weights...I did a search and went with what was printed in a column insteasd of what was on Equibase...

And you are also correct that Jess Jackson has not plotted out chance for the two to meet like he did with Curlin, BUT until this weekend Zenyatta's owner had never given any indication that I had seen that he was interested in meeting Rachel Alexaandra on a neutral track...his comments were only that we are preparing Zenyatta for the Breeders Cup and that was all.

Jerry and Ann Moss are class acts and I applaud them finally stating that they are interested in making this a reality.

As for the comparison of Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta...I know Zenyatta was carrying high weight...but they both did the same distance...and Rachel set a stakes record...and her time was almost 2 seconds faster than Zenyatta and she was easing up in the stretch.

Zenyatta deserves credit for her record -- going undefeated. I have stated that she is one of the best horses to ever run on an artificial surface, but we cannot know whether she is one of the best horses ever because she has never faced the boys.

Rachel faced some of the best three year olds and has made the case that she is the best three year old out there. She may even be the best horse out there on a dirt track. Time will tell on that.

I actually do not know what Jess Jackson's problem is with the artificial surfaces. Rachel had a convincing win over the surface last October at Keeneland so she has shown an ability over the surface. Just because Curlin did not perform well his first time over the track should not be a determining factor IMHO. After all, over the Monmouth Park track Curlin lost the first time, but he never lost two races on the same surface. He won the Breeders Cup Classic on the Montmouth Park track after losing the Haskell and then he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup twice after losing the Belmont Stakes. I think Curlin could have won on Pro-Ride had he had a prep race over the surface or if he had a trainer who had more success on turf or artificual surfaces, but that is not Asmussen's forte.

Zen Doubter...I basically agree with everything you have said in your 8:55am post (and have said alot of it myself). I never had an issue with the Mosses because even though the schedule they set out is boring for the fans and not very challenging to Z at least the goal is the BC (and all year I have heard that they are considering the Classic). I am convinced that JJ only cares for himself, not "the good of racing" as he says. You give many of the reasons in your post. He is not considering that RA is a different horse than Curlin. I also don't see him as a hero for bringing his champ 3 y/o back at 4 (that should be normal, not cause for a parade. IMO). Wouldn't that make the Mosses bigger heroes for bringing their champ 4 y/o back at 5? I am happy to report that I was able to enjoy RA on sat., I found that once she got on the track I didn't care what people she is involved with. And she was fabulous. Though Calvin's showboating is starting to annoy me a little, celebrate after the finish line. I think it is disrespectful to the other connections to stand up and wave to the cameras before the race is over. As to if the 2 girls meet... I think the big race for RA is still the Travers, so I'm guessing she won't face older until late sept or oct. I would also guess that that would be the time frame Z would likely have "open" for travel east. Oct 3 is the Grade 1 Beldame(9 furlongs for f&m 3&up) and the G1 Jockey Club Gold Cup (10f open company 3&up) both on the main track at Belmont. I think the JCGC would be a better overall field, the Beldame could turn into a match race(although I hope someone would run for the rest of the money!). It will be a fun summer whatever happens!

If one is going to use a degrading name, make sure it applies to the appropiate party, that way one gets off on the right foot to start with.

What a weekend! Zenyatta on the west coast and RA on the east coast! Zenyatta was a magnificent sight to see!