Belmont 142 Picks

For only third time in 40 years, the Belmont will not have a Kentucky Derby or a Preakness winner in the field. That fact alone makes this an intriguing race, and even more than that, a very good betting race.

Admittedly, I struggled to handicap this Belmont. I do not believe there is much separating the top six or seven horses in here, and for that reason I went back and forth all week. In the end, I settled on the only two horses with grade I wins--Ice Box and Stately Victor. One is the favorite. The other is a price. Interestingly, I did not like either horse in the Derby, but I do now. I will use both of them prominently on my superfecta ticket (which I promise, I will actually play this time), along with Fly Down.

I thought Ice Box ran the best race in the Derby. Considering where he came from and what he had to overcome, it was a winning type of effort. It proved his 20-1 Florida Derby upset was no fluke, and that this is an improving 3-year-old getting good at the right time.

If you consider Ice Box's Derby a winning type of effort, it was his fourth excellent effort in his last five races--dating back to when he broke his maiden last October. He is in good form, and his works have shown that. The :46 3/5 he drilled last Thursday at Saratoga was almost identical to his work right before the Derby.

I don't expect Ice Box to be anywhere near the lead, but I also don't expect him to be as far back as he was in the Derby. With a slower pace, I hope he doesn't have to come from as far back. He should be in good position turning for home. His speed and class numbers are at the top of this field, along with First Dude. And his trainer knows how to win this race. Plus, he comes in fresh, off a nice five-week break.

Ice Box is my pick to win.

Speaking of First Dude, I was all over him in the Preakness and there is no doubt if he runs back to that race he will either win or be right there at the wire. But his Preakness was grueling and I have to believe it took something out of him. People who like him here will say he is a big, strong horse and he should have no problem coming back off three weeks. But I'm not so sure. His races have always been spaced out well and now he will have to take the field the entire 1 1/2 miles on the lead. And nine and half furlongs is a liitle different than 12. There is no doubt he will set the pace and be in good position to win, but this time there is little value on him (I think he will go off as the favorite) and I am more inclined to use him underneath in exotics.

Stately Victor is the other grade I winner. Admittedly, I initially thought his Blue Grass win was a fluke and did not like him in the Derby. But even though he finished eighth, it was a sneaky, good effort considering all the trouble he had. Now, he comes in fresh and off good works. He has all the looks of a horse just beginning to find himself and the 1 1/2 miles should suit him perfectly.

The Blue Grass form has held up well. Runner-up Paddy O'Prado came back to run third in the Derby and third-place First Dude came back to run second in the Preakness. That is important. Also important is Stately Victor's pedigree, which should be perfect for the Belmont. And his sire, Ghostzapper, ran some of his best races at Belmont, winning the Woodward, Vosburgh, Met Mile, and Tom Fool over the track.

I think Stately Victor is live at price.

The other horse I like is Fly Down. I loved his Dwyer. It was dominant. And it makes him the only horse in the field with a win at Belmont. All three of his wins have come around two turns, so he should have an advantage over most of the others as far as distance. He looks like he's getting good now, and the bullet work on Sunday seems to confirm that. I would not be surprised to see Fly Down run huge, though the Dwyer/Peter Pan winner has not come back to win the Belmont very often.

Others I will use for the bottom end of exotics are Drosselmeyer, Game On Dude, Interactif, Uptowncharlybrown, and Stay Put. Drosselmeyer comes in with the curious feet issues, but his works tells me he should be Ok. He has hit the board in seven of eight races. Game On Dude ran huge in the Lone Star Derby and I expect him to near the lead. Interactif is one I've liked since last year. I've always thought he was a 1 1/2-mile horse. Stay Put could sneak in there, especially if its wet.

I will probably put some win money on Ice Box and play an Ice Box/Stately Victor exacta box, but here is how I will structure my $1 superfecta:

5,6,9/5,6,9/3,5,6,7,9,10,11,12/3,5,6,7,9,10,11,12. Like my Preakness super, it is a $120 bet. Obviously, I'm hoping First Dude does not figure in the first two spots. If that happens, I think I have a decent chance.

Good luck to everyone. Let me know who you like and be sure to join us for the live blogs Friday and Saturday at noon eastern.

**Update: On Friday, I updated my superfecta bet to include Stay Put in the 3rd and 4th spots. I like him more now, especially with rain in the forecast. This would change the wager to $180. If I had to remove one horse, it would be Charlybrown. Hopefully, I can hit a few races earlier on the card and I dont have to.

 

601 Comments

Leave a Comment:

Dr Drunkinbum

I'm glad you like Stately Victor. I also think he is very live, and at a price. Could he end up 11-1 like Summer Bird was? Obviously Ice Box looks good but the price is too low for a win bet. For another longshot in the mix I like Make Music For Me. It's too wide open for me to bet the superfecta but that also means if you key it, you could make a lot of money using many horses in the 4th spot. I like Stately Victor WPS and a Make Music and Stately Vic exacta. First Dude could be another Da Tara, taking and keeping the lead, and Ice Box could roar past them all for the win but I'll be trying to beat both with two simple bets. Jason-Good luck on making amends. Your handicapping is sharp right now so you have a shot. Don't second guess. Take a shot with your true instincts. Good luck to all.

03 Jun 2010 12:19 PM
Assault

Stately Victor in a blowout.

He win by more than 6 lenghts.

03 Jun 2010 12:21 PM
Footlick

Welcome back and my condolences again.  And thanks for the new blog.  I'm going to pick Interactif, with Stately Victor, Fly Down, Make Music for Me and Drosselmeyer.  I think Interactif fits, should love the distance and hopefully he can drop back some and make one big run.  I too thought Stately Victor's race was better than it looked in the Derby.  And I think Fly Down is better than Ice Box.  Not picking either favorite.  Make Music for Me looks and acts great, and Drosselmeyer is training really well even with ouchy feet.  We'll see.  Good luck everybody.

03 Jun 2010 12:28 PM
Draynay

Jason has made a few mistakes in picking Ice Box for the win.  The biggest mistake he made is not waiting for me to TELL him who will win.  The second mistake he made is picking a closer in a race that will only have a modest pace.  How anyone can watch the Preakness and not see the amazing performance of First Dude is beyond me.  These long sweeping turns were MADE for a horse like him.  Who else is in the race? Well like most in my Super Box I will have Ice Box and First Dude but I think the only other two horses who have a chance are Stately Victor and Uptowncharlybrown.  Two horses that could upset for the win are Fly Down and Uptowncharlybrown.  With that said I will have good money to win and place on First Dude and my Super will be to key First Dude 1st and 2nd and Box Fly Down, Ice Box, Uptown, and Stately Victor.  You can thank me later.

03 Jun 2010 12:43 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

And a 4-9-10 tri box. Go for the gusto !!!! Woohoo !!!! What happened Dude? Who knows what the track condition will be like and who will love it???? Thunderstorms possible. Anyone have thunder and lightning breeding?

03 Jun 2010 1:27 PM
Runfast159

First Dude - Fly Down - Drosselmeyer in that order.  

03 Jun 2010 1:36 PM
It aint easy being the truth!

Stately Victor in a romp! This is going to be da tara funny when he rolls them by 5 or 6. Stately Victor runs like summer bird! With no pace look for ice box to get third or 4th!

Jason your luck will end my friend!

03 Jun 2010 1:45 PM
Mary

Last year I bet Summer Bird to win his first race and he lost.  I bet Dunkirk to win the Florida Derby and he lost.  I bet Mine That Bird to win the Preakness and he lost.  I bet Charitable Man to win the Blue Grass and he lost.

They were the only horses in the 2009 Belmont that I had bet on in earlier races.  They went on to complete the Belmont super (but of course i didn't have it).  

So this year I'm boxing all the horses that I bet to win a race earlier this year that lost:  Stately Victor, Game On Dude, First Dude, Interactif and Uptowncharlybrown.

I might throw Dave in Dixie in there too because I bet him to hit the board in the San Felipe and he didn't.

03 Jun 2010 1:46 PM
MRO

Ice Box - Fly Down - Stately Victor. I love the Belmont like no other race in America. Strategy & Stamina over Speed.

03 Jun 2010 2:11 PM
Householder

4 of these horses only have maiden wins.  

03 Jun 2010 2:16 PM
Freetex

I think Game On Dude will surprise and be in contention for the win with Stately Victor, Ice Box, and Fly Down.

Can never underestimate Zito or Baffert.  

So, I will play exotics with Jason's recommendations for the unders.  

I'm afraid Jason is right about First Dude although I believe he will fight to stay with the contenders.

03 Jun 2010 2:38 PM
Vic S - Stately Victor's #1 Fan

I've been saying it since forever - Stately Victor wins by 8 or more, no one in this crop is even close to this horse.  So many bandwagon jumpers trying to get on my horse - guess what? your not allowed on!  Stately Victor in 2.26 and change by 8 or more!

03 Jun 2010 2:41 PM
Assault

Stately Victor was slammed into the boards in the Kentucky Derby.

He didn't know his trainer had entered him into a hockey game.

The colt was "literally" sandwiched and almost ended up putting Lookin at Lucky over the rail.

He will crush First Dude (like he did in the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes).

The light bulb came on with this colt (in the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes). He will love the wide sweeping dirt turns at Belmont Park.

This colt looms quite large in this event.

03 Jun 2010 2:44 PM
LDP

Vic S.

I know bandwagon jumpers are aggrevating, but I'm pretty sure we all live in America and are allowed to like/dislike or change our position on any horse we want.

03 Jun 2010 2:51 PM
Speedball

Good luck Jason.  I like your pics but I'd be very nervous leaving First Dude off the first two pics.  I've always liked Stately Victor.  I just read something very interesting on the Garrett Gomez blog just up today on ESPN.His pics are Uptowncharly, First Dude and Fly Down. He thinks Ice Box running style will hurt him,but I think he will be closer to the pace in this race.  Good luck to all!

03 Jun 2010 3:10 PM
Householder

Ice Box...if they can get back to that GP allowance style win.  He's been dead last or close to it (19th in the Derby) his last 3. That style has proven well for him but not the Belmont.

First Dude...I guess it is based on one's perception.  Was he backing up or did Jackson Bend almost catch him?  He hits the board hard but only has 1 maiden win.  He's been beaten by Fly Down twice, Stately Victor, and Ice Box.

There are actually only 3 with just maiden wins...Make Music for Me broke in the Pasadena Stakes on grass after keeping Grade I and Grade II company early on.  Interesting...with the exception of the Derby, has been a lot closer to the likes of Lookin at Lucky.

Fly Down.  It's Zito's town and Zito's race.  What's he have like 2 wins, 5 seconds, and a show out of 12 starters?  The horse blew the doors off Drosselmeyer at Belmont.  9-2 looks very appealing.  

03 Jun 2010 3:10 PM
Carlos in Cali

With hardly any pace in the race,I think First Dude will take it w2w.He supposedly has been training great @ Belmont and is just now learning how to do it the right way. I'll key First Dude on top & wheel-box Ice Box/Fly Down for p/s then use the All button to round out my Super-tix.For my saver bet I'll simply play a FD-IB-FD Tri-box.

Draynay's Super?...keying First Dude for 1st & 2nd makes no sense if you don't have another horse for 1st too.

03 Jun 2010 3:18 PM
It aint easy being the truth!

Vic we have been aboard since the derby! The problem is that he hasnt raced since the derby. He will have his coming out party. When is the last time a favorite has won the belmont?? Its been awhile! Vic and game on dude for the exacta box when your at home with your new big screen TV you can send me an email!

03 Jun 2010 3:23 PM
Carlos in Cali, Sir BroChacho(stepping thru the fog)

Oh yeah! And the LA Lakers also going w2w vs. those hated Celtics in 5 or 6. Come on Jason,can you feel it?...

03 Jun 2010 3:36 PM
Ranagulzion

Interactif to win from Fly Down.  After that its anybody's guess.

03 Jun 2010 3:55 PM
Dutch

First Dude is hard to look past after his incredible effort in the Preakness. He's got the right running style to win the Belmont, while Uptowncharlybrown and Fly Down can land a piece.

A sloppy track will make this race tougher, and if it's wet I give Make Music for Me a chance. Any horse with Carson City in the breeding always catches my eye in the slop.

Also note that Stay Put is 2-for-2 on wet tracks.

03 Jun 2010 3:59 PM
Don from Delaware

Thanks for your overview Jason, as for me I will take Ice Box to win with really anyone else in the field, but will used a few boxes with other likely one such as you mentioned, BUT....can you comment on weather forcast and if wet/fast track will change anything...that is another reason I am confident in #6, regardless of track conditions, I want this super! Don

03 Jun 2010 4:02 PM
Jason Shandler

Carlos: Im more worried about the Flyers getting even in the Cup tomorrow night than the NBA finals, zzzzzzzz.

03 Jun 2010 4:09 PM
Tim G

Are you playing the All Graded stakes P4&P6 Saturday Jason?

That guaranteed mil sounds fun.

Hockey? The Avalanhe are out. Kind of zzzzzz even with them.

Man what about that blown call in the Detroit game?

03 Jun 2010 4:42 PM
2:24

You sold me.  I'm playing your super.

03 Jun 2010 4:46 PM
Jason Shandler

Tim: Im definately playing the Pick 4. Gonna 'cap it tonight. Probably talk about it on liv eblog tomorrow if youre around. D'Funnybone vs. 85ina50 is intriguing too.

The NBA is a bad product. I feel bad for the ump in the Detroit game. The pitcher showed a lot of class. Leyland showed what he is all about too. Classless.

03 Jun 2010 4:50 PM
Love Those Birds

Jason, first, my condolences to you and your family.

First Dude to win

Ice Box to place

Game On Dude to show

Fly Down to take 4th

Is everybody excited for Saturday's big race?  "Youbetcha!"  [laughing]

Come on First Dude!  Show 'em how it's done.  Cheers to all ... and come home safe and sound.

03 Jun 2010 4:52 PM
Tim G

Yes I agree on the NBA. Give me College Basketball any day.

Man my keys are sticking, wonder who was on my computer LOL. AvalanChe. I'm just not a hockey fan, didn't grow up with it though.

Selig should step up and oveturn it. Even the guy who made the hit couldn't believe the call.

I'll see if I can get away to watch your capping show.

Although according to Dray he is having to school you.

Stay strong on your picks and that $17,000 you missed out on will be a distant memory. The racing gods owe you one. Bet your wife won't rag on you on the bet this time. LOL

03 Jun 2010 5:12 PM
Monarchos Matt

PICKS: (10f+ winning sires and damsires in CAPS)

1) First Dude (101 Beyer, 352 Tomlinson, Stephen Got Even/ Smart Strike) PP #11, 7-2- I normally don’t pick horses in this race that like to go right to the lead, but after his fantastic second place effort in the Preakness setting hot fractions, you have to like his chances in a race without much speed. He could very easily get loose on the lead with much softer fractions and have plenty in the tank coming home. His long strides and massive physique figure to benefit him through the track’s sweeping turns, and he appears to be a horse that is improving rapidly.

2) Ice Box (100 Beyer, 270 Tomlinson, Pulpit/ TABASCO CAT) PP#6, 3-1 Morning Line Favorite- Nobody closed faster in the Kentucky Derby than this horse, and after a nightmare trip to boot. His gallop out was monstrous after that second place finish, and there isn’t much doubt he would have won a 12f race that day. He isn’t likely to see the same type of pace set up here but he figures to be flying late regardless, especially coming in fresh after passing on the Preakness, and the extra two furlongs should do nothing but help his chances. His damsire Tabasco Cat won this very race, and trainer Nick Zito seems to be hot lately.

3) Fly Down (99 Beyer, 303 Tomlinson, MINESHAFT/ Fly So Free) PP#5, 9-2- This late bloomer demonstrated a magnificent turn of foot in winning the Dwyer over this very track. He is lightly raced, but a duplication of that effort will certainly factor here in a big way, and his pedigree suggests that the distance won’t be an issue. I always like to give horses a long look when they have shown success over the same race track, and he’s the only horse in the field with a win at Belmont.

4) Stately Victor (94 Beyer, 290 Tomlinson, GHOSTZAPPER/ Dynaformer) PP#9, 15-1- I loved his chances in the Derby, and he actually ran pretty well there to finish eighth after a somewhat crowded trip. There are still a lot of question marks surrounding him, and whether or not he is simply a synthetic specialist, but his turn of foot and pedigree could still make him a force to be reckoned with if he runs a big race. I won’t be using him on top but think he stands a good chance to hit the board. Nice price.

5) Spangled Star (87 Beyer, 386 Tomlinson, Distorted Humor/ Kris S.) PP#2, 30-1- If you are looking for a sleeper at a big price, this could be the horse. So far in this year’s Triple Crown races, pedigree and distance figures have played a big role, so overlook the horse with the highest Tomlinson distance figure in the field at your own peril. Although his speed figures aren’t really competitive with the rest of these, he has posted three straight improving Beyers, and if he can improve again and benefit from the distance, who knows?

6) Interactif (94 Beyer, 330 Tomlinson, Broken Vow/ Broad Brush) PP#12, 12-1- He is another that has question marks, mainly as to whether or not he is better suited to turf, but he was certainly on my Derby short list and deserves a look if for no other reason than he should be able to run his race and make a late move from the back of the pack. He has been inconsistent but should be fresh. I like others more but wouldn’t be surprised to see him hit the board.

7) Make Music For Me (97 Beyer, 266 Tomlinson, Bernstein/ Carson City) PP#4, 10-1- Aside from Ice Box, he made up the most ground coming down the stretch in the Derby and was running pretty wide so he definitely has a big chance to make an impact here with a similar effort. Whether he benefited from the sloppy track that day like Paddy O’Prado did remains to be seen, and I have my questions as to whether he wants to go all the way to 12 furlongs based on his pedigree. Still, if you’re betting based on Kentucky Derby finishes, he’d be your place horse.

8) Drosselmeyer (92 Beyer, 346 Tomlinson, Distorted Humor/ Moscow Ballet) PP#7, 12-1- He was high on everyone’s list after he closed gamely to get up for the show spot in the Louisiana Derby, but then he was easily bested by Fly Down last time out over this same track. He’ll need to improve vastly to catch that one, and really, the more you look at the Louisiana Derby race the less sense it makes.

9) Game on Dude (95 Beyer, 312 Tomlinson, AWESOME AGAIN/ DEVIL HIS DUE) PP#8, 10-1- He is intriguing based on his pedigree for sure, with 10f+ winners on both sides of his first two generations, but I'll pass at these odds. He impressed in his last start against inferior competition but was beaten pretty easily in the Florida Derby without excuses. You can throw out his Derby Trial flop as he clearly didn’t enjoy the footing, but I like others better.

10) Stay Put (90 Beyer, 327 Tomlinson, Broken Vow/ Dixieland Band) PP#10, 20-1- Another horse that appears to be improving, but his last three Beyers have been pretty consistent and those figures are well below what it will take to win here. His most impressive win came over a sloppy track and he may be just a touch outclassed here.

11) Dave In Dixie (95 Beyer, 291 Tomlinson, Dixie Union/ Wavering Monarch), PP#1, 20-1- His last three Beyers have been decreasing, and it appears that he might have enjoyed synthetic surfaces more than dirt. He’ll be fresh coming in off eight weeks rest, but his pedigree doesn’t really stack up, and coming from the rail if he’s forced to chase First Dude early, he could be toast in a hurry.

12) Uptowncharleybrown (91 Beyer, 226 Tomlinson, Limehouse/ Langfuhr) PP#2, 10-1- A lot of people think this horse has a real chance here but I am failing to see the logic. Nothing about this horse suggests that he wants to run a race of this distance, and his Tomlinson figure is the lowest in the field by a large margin, which shouldn’t be much of a surprise just eyeballing his immediate pedigree. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong but I can’t come up with a logical reason as to why he should be a factor.

Bets:

Tri Key: First Dude, Ice Box, Fly Down/ FD, IB, FD, Stately Victor/ FD, IB, FD, SV, Spangled Star

Win Bet on Stately Victor for insanity insurance, roughly $3 per $1 tri key unit.

03 Jun 2010 5:13 PM
Carlos in Cali

Jason:  I had forgotten all about Hockey.They seem to be pretty tight games so far,maybe it's because they're showing em' on the Bravo network or some other obscure cable channel.  :)  zzzz.  The NHL knows their place. You know you're definitely in the minority right?..good luck though.

No wait! I take it back.

The FIFA World Cup...now there's something to get excited about.You'll soon come around my man.  Ole'--Ole',Ole',Ole'!

03 Jun 2010 5:16 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Zookeeper

   Where are you??? I was hoping you'd post your picks so I could make some money. Are you on vacation, spending your Preakness winnings? Too much longer and we'll have to put Barnaby Jones on the case. Hoping all is well.

03 Jun 2010 5:30 PM
gw_bushwacker

And I thought I was the only one who liked Stately Victor. Hope he still goes off at 12/1. The top 3 are everybody's picks so i'm looking for a price to add to the payoff. Stay Put, Interactif and Uptowncharleybrown have a chance to help light the tote board as well.

03 Jun 2010 5:50 PM
swede

I AM GOING TOPLAY A $1.00 TRI PW WITH THE TICKET LOOKING LIKE THIS 5-11-12/5-6-9-11-12/3-45-6-9-11-12 GOOD LUCK TO ALL   SWEDE

03 Jun 2010 5:57 PM
charles enderle

typical of horse racing.i won big on the derby so i was a fool in the preakness,so i'll be very quiet in the belmont, not at the window.

03 Jun 2010 5:58 PM
Coldfacts

Neither Ice Box nor First Dude is likely to win the Belmont. Ice Box is a small colt that had an extremely tough race in the Derby and he requires a strong pace upfront to win. I doubt the pace will be anything near the 2009 Belmont where the 10F split was 2:03 plus. First Dude is not a 12F horse and his rider is a bust in really big races. He had an uncontested lead in the   Preakness and could not quicken when it mattered. What is the likelihood of Smart Strike being the sire of the Preakness winner and dam sire of the Belmont? It will not happen as history does not unfold in this fashion.

An interesting entry is Dave In Dixie. From an historic angle, Dave In Dixie has a date with the Belmont. It could be a classic case of destiny. His dam Risk was sired by Wavering Monarch who was also the dam sire of the ill fated 1993 Preakness winner and  champion 3YO Prairie Bayou who broke down in 1993 Belmont. Prairie Bayou’s dam Whiffling was euthanized while in foal to Dixie Union the sire of Dave In Dixie. So in DID we have a colt whose dam sire was also the dam sire of the favorite in the 1993 Belmont and whose dam was put down while carrying a foal for his sire. DID will love every inch of the Belmont strip as he is a far striding colt that has disappointed in his last two start and must be sitting on a big one. His trainer is due to win one of the big ones as only Todd Pletcher won more derby preps than Mr. Sadler. The top three derby prep winners were Bob B, Todd P and John S. Bob and Todd have each won one leg of the TC and it's obviously John's time.

03 Jun 2010 6:01 PM
KMAUER

I like First Dude to win, Ice Box to place. Spangled Star to show.

03 Jun 2010 6:35 PM
Face the Music

Well look who crawled out the attic,

Coldfacts--

Have you no shame?How can you still use that moniker after the last 2 years of abysmal predictions and shortcomings using your "theories",not cold facts?

Case in point: your last paragraph is wishful thinking,it has nothing to do with history or cold facts.

Re: Prairie Bayou- should've,would've,could've. You'll have better luck throwing darts.

Get him Jason.

03 Jun 2010 7:08 PM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

Coldfacts, let me give you the coldfacts Dave in Dixie's only job in this race is to come in LAST.  The ride First Dude got from Ramon was fantastic and he will get his first of MANY Belmont wins on Saturday.  Take notice how many races he wins on Saturday!  Go Ramon!

03 Jun 2010 7:22 PM
Big Louie

OK, laugh at me all you want but I keep coming back to Spangled Star.

The Belmont is not a closers race as most would think. Winners usually run mid-pack or off the lead.

Spangled Star has beaten NOBODY, his Beyers don't stack up and he didn't brake his Maiden until this year.

However, he's run well in all his races, all at a distance. His works are sharp and his Distance and Mud numbers are the best of the bunch. Not to mention his running style fits.

I just can't use Ice Box here. he just comes from too far out of it for this particular race.

Assuming it's Muddy I'll be using Spangled Star, Interactif, First Dude Drosselmeyer and possibly Fly Down in some way shape or form

Louie

03 Jun 2010 7:46 PM
jayjay

Thanks Jason, I'm glad to see that you think the same about First Dude bouncing.  I'm hoping he bounces to make it a better payoff.  I still think MMFM will be a factor along with IceBox.  IceBox will show some speed and be much much closer to the pace (that 46 workout is normal for him).  I also like Stay Put very much to be in the exotics to liven up the payoffs hehe.  Here's what I'm playing tomorrow (Advance wagering) to make sure I don't change my mind on Saturday :)

$5 EXACTA BOX : 4,6,9

TOTAL : $60.00

$1 TRIFECTA :

4,6,9 BOX = $6.00

4,6 with 4,5,6,10 with 4,5,6,10 = $12.00

4,6 with 4,6,7,11 with 4,6,7,11,9 = $18.00

4,6,9 with 4,6,9,10 with 4,6,9,10,11,7 = $36.00

5,6,11,12 Box = $24.00

6,9 with 6,9,10,11 with 6,9,10,11,12 = $36.00

6,9,5 with 6,9,12,5 with 6,9,12,5 = $18.00

11,12 with 11,12,6,4 with 11,12,6,4,7 = $18.00

$1 SUPERFECTA :

6,4,9 with 6,4,9,5 with 6,4,9,5,10 with 6,4,9,5,10,11,12,3,7,1 = $189.00

I'm investing about $420.00 on those bets.  Hopefully I'll get a nice payoff or at least get my money back lol.  I'm quite sure I'll put more bets depending on how the horses look at the post parade, I'd like to see how First Dude looks.  I'm hoping I won't have to add more to my bets.

Good luck to all!!  I'll try and wake up early tomorrow to join the live blog show.

03 Jun 2010 7:47 PM
nickie

Forcast for rain on Saturday....Motts runner moves way up....gotta include Stately Victor and think the 'Music runner will fair well. Too much print on Ice Box, given big play on pedigree and the Brooklyn Kid[Zito], no value with 12 furlongs to navigate he ain't worth it @ 2/1.

03 Jun 2010 8:04 PM
Jason Shandler

Thursday forecast looks like scattered showers Saturday. Too early to tell if the track will be wet.

03 Jun 2010 8:10 PM
jayjay

Vic S - you were right, you were saying Stately Victor will win the Kentucky Derby by 10 lengths, never happened.  I didn't bet him in KD, I had most of my money on IceBox.  I've been looking at Stately Victor since after the Preakness, you can't be surprised at how many people will look at SV because of the Belmont distance.  You're starting to sound like Draynay, he thinks he's the only one that sees a winner in a heavy favorite, there's a reason a horse runs at odds of 1-5, that means A LOT of people bet on the horse LOL.

Draynay : Why are you playing box if you think First Dude is a sure win ??  You said he'll win all his next races, boxing a bet means you believe he can be beat.  So much for the "superstar" First Dude eh ?   Now you're on the IceBox bandwagon too I see lol.

03 Jun 2010 8:11 PM
Ted from LA

I am still working this one out and am back to 50-50 on if I will attend in person.  Either I will or I will not.  It's a sad day for us fanatic Golden Girls fans.  Well, at least we still have what's her name.

03 Jun 2010 8:37 PM
Paula Higgins

Ice Box first, Stately Victor second, Frist Dude third. Those are my picks.

03 Jun 2010 8:42 PM
MRO

Go Flyers! Kimmo Timonen is the best.

03 Jun 2010 8:56 PM
LAZMANNICK

Fly Down is definitely the one to beat in this group.  He can stalk and close with a pretty good burst.  His latest work and the fact that he won a good race on this track means tons.  Given the distance and his style, Ice Box would seem a natural in a 1-1/2M race.  However, deep closers don't do as well in this race as you might think.  He will be charging but won't quite get the job done.  Drosselmeyer sets up nicely for the tri as does Interactif.  Sorry Dray.....not today for the Dude.  

03 Jun 2010 9:03 PM
Jason Shandler

MRO: Its not much of a reach to say you are the first and only person in the history of horse racing blogs to ever give a shout out to Kimmo Timonen.

03 Jun 2010 9:06 PM
OLD TIMER

Betty White. Lots of love on here for Stately Victor, a horse who has not yet won on real dirt. Nick Zito owns this town and this race. Super Box is 5-6-7-11.

03 Jun 2010 9:15 PM
Big Ric

I also like State (of love and trust) ly Victor in the Belmont !!  God Speed !!

03 Jun 2010 9:39 PM
Jason Shandler

Nice one Bic Ric. PJ references always welcomed here :)

03 Jun 2010 9:47 PM
IndianaSkinny

I'm gonna let you boys in on a little secret. I call em like I see em. The Belmont finish:

(1) Interactiff

(2) Ice Box

(3) Spangled Star(say what?)oh yea!

(4)Drosselmeyer

(5) First Dude

(6) Make music for me

(7)Fly Down

(8)Dave in Dixie

(9) Uptowncharliebrown

(10) Game on Dude

(11) Stay Put

(12) Stately Victor ( after Interactiff crosses the wire, go get ya a beer, and then come back and watch Stately Victor cross the wire)

03 Jun 2010 9:59 PM
Paula Higgins

Ted from LA did you see "what's her name" aka Betty White on SNL? She was hilarious.

Tim G, you are right, Selig should fix that call. Everyone agrees as to what really happened. It's a no brainer for anyone that has a brain.

03 Jun 2010 10:08 PM
Draynay

Like I said jayjay I believe First Dude will win but I like to dream and Uptown edging him at the wire with Stately Victor and Ice Box following behind gives me a ticket worth 15k or more so why not.  I have spoken.

03 Jun 2010 10:13 PM
CNOTES

I'm hearing from a TVG insider stately victor isn't going to fire..

03 Jun 2010 10:19 PM
redowl22

well well

I love longshots and new comer's

The fishy horse for me was

spangled star

ie has gomez next reason i love this

horse has shown speed and has stamina to hang around no real speed demon here so gomez can win with dutrow in a high percentage if we look at gomez numbers with dutrow its a steady 22 clip percentage good numbers for me

The next longshot for me

uptowncharlybrown

ie new trainer really working well

so

what will i do

23 exacta box

23/23/all tri

and

23/23/all/all superfecta

all bets will be for $1

so good luck all

03 Jun 2010 10:25 PM
jayjay

LOL, so now you "believe", it's all good at least I'm teaching you something and you're listening.  There's a big difference between proclaiming a horse the winner even before the race is run, at least now you've learned your lesson.  Consider it my gift, you're welcome!  Doesn't it feel good to know you're learning something ?? :)  All you need is to actually pay attention.

I'm still hoping that First Dude doesn't hit the board.  I'm more worried about Spangled Star hitting the board than First Dude, since I didn't put any money on Spangled Star and he is starting to look like the dark horse.

03 Jun 2010 10:29 PM
LAZMANNICK

Selig should make the change.  It would have been the last out anyway and nothing happened after.  The fact that the ump had tears all afternoon why not.  Absolutely no one will be embarrassed.  Now the one who will clearly be embarrassed because of his stubborness is the Commissioner himself.

03 Jun 2010 10:34 PM
Barb Dwyer

Does the Belmont have dime supers?  if it does, I'm boxing:

1 - Dave In Dixie

5 - Fly Down

6 - Ice Box

8 - Game On Dude

9 - Stately Victor

11 - First Dude

12 - Interactif

I feel a little pathetic having to box 7 to try to hit the super but this race looks wide open to me.

03 Jun 2010 10:34 PM
redowl22

i am not proclaming any horse

but belmont has been having money trouble latley and the last few weeks payoff has been pretty chalky

so why not play longshots for belmont day

03 Jun 2010 10:37 PM
cat thief

For a dry fast track I think Ice box and someone else will pass First Dude regardless of how slow the pace is.  I'm leaning toward using Interacstiff and Stately Victor but I hate using grass/poly horses.  Make Music seemed like he was too little to late in the Derby, but he was passing horses in the lane. I better use Fly down, because he's beaten Dude twice.   Ice/Flydown, Make Music, Interstiff/all  and Flydown, Make Music, Interstiff/ Ice Box/ all.  Put 20 on First Dude's nose for a saver.

If my manager didnt yell at that chump ump and back me up after that performance, I'd phone in the rest of my games. That's Leeland's job, to jump all over calls that go against his guys.  And did you see Joyce crying before today's game,"...there's no CRYING in baseball!"

03 Jun 2010 10:40 PM
mz

Should we be worried about the hunch bet: since Blanche DuBois is in the news right now, should any of us be looking at Dave in Dixie?

Nah.

Stately Victor.  Make Music for Me.  Ice Box.

Anyone interested in the Oaks and Derby (Darhby)?  Remember When and Bullet Train.

Sorry, Jason: Boston

Carlos in Cali: I am expecting the Italians to give me heart attacks at the start and then, who knows, make it to the semis.  But I would really like to see England make it to the finals against Spain.  Looking forward to the month, though.  (And Ireland wuz robbed!!!!)

03 Jun 2010 10:46 PM
Jason Shandler

No soccer on this blog!! If you want to talk about more exciting things like grass growing, watching paint dry, or sleeping, I will allow that. But soccer is where I draw the line :)

03 Jun 2010 10:58 PM
Coldfacts

Face the Music

Thoroughbred racing is not my only interest and I choose when to post comments. If you are upset that I have not been participating enough I can understand. There are far more knowledgeable posters than crazy Coldfacts. You should have no problem with attack options.

Jason can confirm that in 2009 I predicted that Summer Bird would win the Belmont. He won. Many of Jason supporters were high on the celebrated Dunkirk. I pointed out to them that he was not the horse. I was right. I also predicted at that Belmont would be Dunkirk’s last race. I was right. If you are referring to my prediction that no horse from the Raise A Native sire line was likely win the 2010 derby, I am man enough to say my prediction was wrong only because Ice Box had a horrible trip as he was much the best. Are you aware that the RAN sires line had nine starters in the 2010 Derby and only one hit the board?

I regard history as a record of events. My last paragraph contained some history some speculation.

HISTORY:

Wavering Monarch the dam sire of the ill fated 1993 Preakness winner and  champion 3YO Prairie Bayou who broke down in 1993 Belmont.

Prairie Bayou’s dam Whiffling was euthanized while in foal to Dixie Union.

Dixie Union is sire of Dave In Dixie.

Bob Baffret & Todd Pletcher  each won a leg of the 2010 Triple Crown

Bob Baffret, Todd Pletcher and John Sadler combined for the most wins in derby preps.

SPECILATION:

If derby prep success is used as a measure, Bob and Todd each won a leg, then Sadler who was the second in this category is due. I think this is a reasonable speculation. Dave In Dixie run well fresh. He was given a month off after his last race and should be sitting on a big race.

“Prairie Bayou- should've, would've, could've. You'll have better luck throwing darts”

You must be visually impaired. I merely mentioned that Prairie Bayou’s dam was sired by Wavering Monarch and that he was1993 Preakness winner and champion 3YO Prairie Bayou who broke down in 1993 Belmont.

How does your statement above make any sense?

Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND

“Dave in Dixie's only job in this race is to come in LAST.”

It’s interesting that my prediction is nonsense and your prediction makes sense.  I imagine you said the same thing about Sarava who won the Belmont at 70-1. Dave in Dixie's ML is 20-1 so I guess I am ahead. Base on your statement above, Mr. Sadler is prepared to ship a colt from CA with sole purpose of running last. If you are correct, the trainer should have his licenses revoked. You are aware that final positions are known after races run. Price money is not awarded based on past performance. If this were the case there would be no need to run races.

“The ride First Dude got from Ramon was fantastic”

Well if you consider allowing the colt to run the first 2F of a 9F race in 22 seconds plus costing him the race fantastic then I guess fantastic has a new meaning. I think Louis Quatorze has the Preakness Stakes record and he ran the first 2F in 23 plus. If you consider having an uncontested lead and allowing a closer to go by at the top of the stretch and then rally to regain the lead fantastic then word has a new meaning. He should have been replaced for a more competent rider. Great riders have clocks in their heads and know when to send horses that have uncontested leads.  Ramon poor ride cost me a ton of money as his horse looked the best in the Preakness post parade.

“Take notice how many races he wins on Saturday”

The big boys are in town and he will not enjoy the preferred jockey status to which he is accustomed.

03 Jun 2010 11:02 PM
Monarchos Matt

jayjay- again giving up on First Dude? You might want to give him a closer look, there is NO speed in this race and he is likely to get away with slow fractions on the lead and have plenty left down the stretch...good luck but I'd be horrified to have him out of the money in my superfecta! Have to cut corners somewhere but this doesn't look to me like the type of Belmont where the closers are going to be knocking off horses down the homestretch so it is tough to leave out lone speed. He appears twice the horse Da'Tara was, and there aren't any Big Browns in here either.

We will see!

03 Jun 2010 11:07 PM
Tim G

"No soccer on this blog!! If you want to talk about more exciting things like grass growing, watching paint dry, or sleeping, I will allow that. But soccer is where I draw the line :)

jshandler 03 Jun 2010 10:58 PM"

THIS^

Although maybe one of you aficionados can tell me WHY they run around, avoiding their teammates, with their shirt pulled up over their heads after scoring a goal?????

03 Jun 2010 11:16 PM
Robin from Maryland

I like First Dude-liked his Preakness run.  For reasons that come from the heart, I also like Uptowncharlybrown.  Ithink it's anyone's race to win or lose.  Best of luck to all - may they come home safe and sound.

03 Jun 2010 11:36 PM
mz

Jason, I guess you're a little touchy because some of us don't think the Flyers can make it.  Remember that at least the Flyers have won the Cup within most peoples' lifetimes, unlike, oh, I don't know, Toronto.  Feel better now?

03 Jun 2010 11:40 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

jayjay

   I like your superfecta bet. Can someone explain to me what a TVG insider is?   When I  watched them none of them could handicap. Luckily I don't have to watch them anymore. There's some talent on HRTV but TVG stunk. Unless they fired everyone and started over I'd have a hard time believing anything they said. Actually there was one guy that was OK, a bloke named Frank. Unfortunately I have no information as to how any of the Belmont colts are looking right now but the winner should be one of the Derby horses. All three of them closed well, and all had trouble, and from what I could see, Stately Victor galloped out very strong. However, you never know if a horse is ready for the race of a lifetime like Da Tara was. This is a great race and a great betting race. It will be  a shocker if the tri and super don't pay really well.

03 Jun 2010 11:41 PM
LH1216

Jason I must say I'm glad I read this before Saturday.

I was pretty apprehensive about slapping down a big bet on Stately Victor, but with the exception of Ice Box being your top pick, our picks are almost identical.

I love Fly Down and think he has a really good chance to win it, but the price for Vic is so much more enticing.

I like First Dude, and he is a good horse but I think he is a little overrated. He lacks the 'killer instinct' that great horses have. If the light bulb ever turns on in his head, look out but for now I think 3 or 4 pass him in the stretch.

By the way, on the 85 and D'Funnybone race... Look for those two and Discreetly Mine to be too busy flexing at each other (D' Schwarzenegger wins that contest) in the stretch to notice Thank U Philippe and Garret sneaking by to the wire. : )

03 Jun 2010 11:46 PM
Footlick

mz- Akdarena for the Oaks- could gallop them into submission, although Remember When is live and Rumoush looks tough.  I'll take a chance that Rewilding can hold his former trainer's form for one more race with Dettori, but I do like Bullet Train also.

03 Jun 2010 11:48 PM
jayjay

Monarchos Matt : I'm not totally leaving out First Dude.  I know he is a big horse, when I saw him on the post parade in the Preakness, I had to hurry up and put money on him.  My angle is that 3 weeks is too short, he's a big horse yes but that was a pretty big effort he ran at Preakness.  Like Jason said, I think he needs his races spaced out.  All of this of course is me hoping that is the case, most of my handicapping of this race is to make money so whenever you see me leave out some favorites, that's me taking a chance because I'm betting for a huge payoff.

I posted my bets earlier and I do have First Dude on top with one of my trifecta boxes.  I'm really high on IceBox and MMFM...SV will make it even nicer and Stay Put will put the super probably in the 8K to 12K if IceBox wins :)

I also said I will need to have a look at the post parade again so most likely I'll probably be betting more.  I'm currently handicapping my P6 and P4, just looking at who's running in those races.  

Dr. Drunkinbum : Hope the racing gods like it too and make it come true!  (I'm a poet and I didn't even know it!)

04 Jun 2010 12:08 AM
LAZMANNICK

Tim G

They run around with their sweaters pulled over their heads because even they don't want to watch it.  It's bad enough they have to play it.

04 Jun 2010 12:10 AM
Matthew W

Believe First Dude will go off favored, and think perhaps Fly Down will go off 2nd choice--Ice Box is not the Belmont type! The Dude has the pace, and Pletcher has the horse who'll get first run at him, the #11 and #12 should be engaging at the top of the stretch---there is another horse whom I think is most intriguing--nine of the horses in this year's Belmont Stakes--3/4th's of the field--did not run in a Gr 1 as a two year old--of the three who did--two were unplaced in their (one) Gr 1---the other horse raced in three Gr 1's as a 2yo--hitting the board in all three--Make Music For Me! His season to date, a rush job to the Derby! First, a small stakes on turf, where he came home like a racehorse! Then came the Keeneland bounce, then the rushed Derby run, where he looked like the winner inside the 1/8 pole but hung/bore out/shied from Ice Box in final 1/16--but he has FOUR works since, has been at Belmont for weeks, this will be his money run--NO HORSE in the field has hob-knobbed with the kind of horses he has--his Hol Futurity (Cash Call) run was huge, into a slow pace/gaining on Lookin At Lucky/Noble's Promise--this is a horse who is NOT OUTCLASSED! Rosario needs to sit still/but give him his head to get his natural stride--where he'll be fairly close to the (slow) pace, then outkick them all for at least a piece of this--class tells, and make Music For Me is the class of this Belmont Stakes! Great race! Great card, AS USUAL, the Belmont stakes is the best card in the USA. year in/year out! Kudos to the West Coasters who showed up--Dan Hendricks drew bad for his filly Tanda, but that's a nice filly--will try to beat her with Crisp/Amen Hallelujah, whom I think are the bestest fillies in the Acorn--great race! Playing against D'Funnybone in the Stephens! Love the longshot with GoGo,Thank You Philippe, 2 for 2 at 7 fur, and will box him with the freak, Eightyfiveinafifty, speaking of freaks, the great, and I mean great, Chinook Pass died--for many, the fastest horse of a lifetime of fast horses, the speed of the speed, so to speak! Phola and Proviso will move together and we'll see, in the Just A Game, another great race...Proviso will come running....

04 Jun 2010 12:25 AM
jayjay

I also don't think that First Dude will be alone in the lead.  If everyone on this blog thinks that First Dude will be on the lead alone, don't you think the trainers of the other horses are thinking of it too ?  Unless they decide to just give the race to First Dude, I would say that there will be at least 2 or 3 going with First Dude, call it suicide but a lot of the fresh horses are untested, and some of them might surprise us by going to the lead and hanging tough.

I also think that this is a jockey's race.  Lezcano is a smart jockey, he knows his horse's abilities.  If he sees that First Dude might get the lead alone, I'm quite sure that IceBox will be a lot closer to the pace.  If others go with First Dude, he will be mid pack and will motor home for the win.  Need to keep an eye on Martin Garcia's horse also, have to watch the parade to see how he looks.

04 Jun 2010 12:44 AM
moodygirl

I like horse racing because it is not soccer, baseball, and basketball. Please stop! Oh, and golf too.

04 Jun 2010 1:00 AM
Tiznowbaby

I'm really liking Fly Down.

And quit dissing the real football, people :)

04 Jun 2010 1:00 AM
Aluminaut

The first horse I was going to toss in the Belmont was Dave In Dixie.  Since Dray says he'll finish last I have to bet him across and add to exotics.  I made a note about DID's female family (not Draynay's) last night but it was late and I can't decipher my chicken scratch at this point.

Should I just put all the names in my Derbyan's seed bowl and let her pick the super like I did for the Derby--She picked MMFM and SS and IB.  She had LAL instead of Pady.  Oh well.....

04 Jun 2010 2:49 AM
Aluminaut

Re Dave In Dixie--In addition to his bottom line influences A Gleam and Twilight Tear, it's back a few more generations to Mannie Himyar

(not sure about spelling)--Domino's full sister.  I was thinking that it would make interesting linebreeding to a stallion with that female family influence, since it would connect with Domino multiple times w/the proper mare.

04 Jun 2010 3:03 AM
GunBow

Somewhat off subject, but found this in Sports Illustrated:

"Once they were the heavyweights of their sport, and across America on Saturdays people bent around radios, damning the static, to listen to their matches, as interested in the outcome as if it were Louis and Schmeling. But that was decades ago, when champion racehorses like Armed, Assault, Gallorette, Stymie and Citation stayed around long enough to become national heroes. It was considered downright cowardly in those days for a good horse to quit racing before he was five or six. Stymie was still racing at eight.

But for many reasons all that changed. American horses are not as durable now, and their owners worry about keeping head and hoof together just long enough to run them in the 3-year-old classics. Then the colts are hustled to the breeding sheds. So the handicap races, those glamour events of the past for horses four and older, became in recent times very moderate contests."

From 1972.

The problems the sport faces have been around for a while.  Its been a steady decline.

04 Jun 2010 3:44 AM
GunBow

Great card from Belmont.  The Belmont Stakes itself is intriguing and a good betting race.  But so is the True North, Acorn, and the Manhattan.  And though the Woody Stephens field is small, there is 85ina50 and D'Funnybone.

The Manhattan competes this weekend with another gr.1 turf race for males at 10 furlongs, the Charlie Whittingham, but it clearly drew the superior field.  Of the 11 horses in the Manhattan field, 7 are gr.1 winners.  And many of those are multiple gr.1 winners.  There's Gio Ponti with 4 gr.1 wins, Take the Points with 3, Court Vision with 3, Grand Courturier with 3, and then Winchester, Just as Well, and Interpatation each with 1.

04 Jun 2010 4:10 AM
longwaytomay

For all of you Stately Victor fans,

I don't understand how you can like a horse who clearly does not like dirt. He has never run well on dirt unless you want to consider his 8th place effort in the Derby. I know he was assaulted by Kent D., but look at his other efforts on dirt. They are not very good. I'm gonna play the angle that has made me money for the last year and a half. Pro-ride to dirt. Game on Dude for the win. I would love to see Uptown win but I just don't think he is up to the challenge of 1 1/2. I will use Ice Box, Stay Put, First Dude and Uptown in the unders. Wet track will cause me to rethink the whole thing.

04 Jun 2010 7:51 AM
longwaytomay

Jason,

Sorry to hear about you grandmother.

04 Jun 2010 7:57 AM
fastjoey

You were ALL OVER Schoolboy Dreams. What a load of crap you liked First Dude. I BET First Dude. For you to claim you were ALL OVER First Dude hints, no proclaims, that you are certifiable. Haskin, you are ALL OVER every horse in every race, blathering something complimentary about, seemingly, every contender. You're picks are a joke and everyone makes jokes right in you're face. For you to claim you were ALL OVER First Dude tells me you are on SICK DUDE

04 Jun 2010 8:18 AM
Fran Loszynski

Tim G.

Good thing there aren't umpires at a horserace. Of course the horse and jockey would probably run them over nearing the finish line. Too bad for the rookie, he could have been in history.

04 Jun 2010 8:27 AM
Slew

I seem to remember that everyone thought the Preakness would have a slow pace, and then First Dude came over from post 11 and scorched the track.  Impressive.  But the horse that passed him in the Blue Grass was Stately Victor, and that's my winner with First Dude close by.  They're both large colts with a 12f pedigree.  Ice Box's style of close will put him in at least 3rd, while Fly Down should be 4th.  I'm wondering if we'll see a surprise from Spangled Star...his pedigree is interesting.  

04 Jun 2010 8:47 AM
Billy's Empire

I am thinking Zito's other horse is going to win the Belmont, passing a tiring First Dude in the Final furlong and holding off Interactif, who will be closer to the pace than Ice box.  

If it rains, this may change slightly b/c Ice Box and Statley Victor looked good running in the slop at CD, but the weather folks are wrong quite often. Yesterday, they said we were going to get an inch of rain in Louisville, and had a 70-80% chance of rain. I played golf last night and it was partly cloudy and 89 degrees, no rain. Best job ever, a weatherman. You can be wrong 90% of the time, and not get fired. Damn, I guess a turf writer or handicapper is not a bad gig either by that measure.

Fly Down

First Dude

Interactif

Ice Box

Stately Victor

I am betting Interactif only b/c Todd would not run him if he thought he did not have a chance to win. He took everyone by suprise running him here and not on turf, so something is up.

Good Luck to all.

04 Jun 2010 9:10 AM
Billy's Empire

the people making fun of soccer are the same people that had their girlfriend cheat on them with a soccer player. SORRY, just how it goes.

04 Jun 2010 9:29 AM
justj

Stay Put=Sarava

If not hard to go against three favorites.

04 Jun 2010 9:38 AM
berttheclock

Cordero said, a few years back, that many Belmonts are lost in the back stretch.  He said so many have pounded the "Save your horse; it is a long way", that tactics are lost before horses ever reach the stretch.

Going out on a very long limb, I will go with the longie UptownCharleyBrown.

Ah, Betty White did smile at me at Longacres as she walked past.  She was there promoting her favorite cause and to make a presentation to the winning owner of a feature.  Great lady.

Surprised Draynay has not asked for anyone to sign for him on those exotics from Monmouth, last Saturday, with the $210 winner on top.

However, as for the NBA Finals, I am still re-running the DVD of my beloved Jayhawks getting ready to tip off against lowly Northern Iowa.  Perhaps, this time, we will prevail and move on.

04 Jun 2010 10:07 AM
Ted from LA

Soccer is a sport like orange Gummy Bears are a fruit.  If nobody scores it's not a sport.  It's a standoff and everyone in the crowd is a hostage.

04 Jun 2010 10:14 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

This is a tough one. From what I'm reading, better throw in Interactif too. This is wide, wide open. I'm just waiting for Ted from La's pick so I can nail it down. Speaking of Interactif, what a nightmare road to The Derby they took with him. I liked him early on and was very disappointed he didn't run in The Derby. No dirt preps was crazy, barely any dirt training, and now they think he'll like dirt. Many of us thought so along time ago and were pulling our hair out at what they were doing with him.

04 Jun 2010 10:39 AM
Kevin A Burke

# 9 Stately Victor

#12 Interactif

Exacta Reverse:

Both horses keyed on top for the Trips/Supers with each other plus:

# 2 Spangled Star

#10 Stay Put

# 7 Drosselmeyer

# 1 Dave in Dixie

Brooklyn Handicap:

# 3 Gangbusters (Pick)

# 4 Eldaafer

Exacta Reverse

Brooklyn/Belmont Double

# 3 & # 4 with #9 & # 12

Everyone have two great days of racing (Brooklyn Handicap gives idea of how track is playing).

If anyone is at Belmont Friday, (today) My Description is,

Sunglasses, Black Suit, White Shirt, Red Tie, Red Pin in Lapel,

Gray/White/Brown Hair, 5'11" on slim side of life, Say Hello!

As I said, everyone love the horses, may you enjoy the races! I'm on my way in a hour or so.  

04 Jun 2010 10:51 AM
mz

Oh oh ... I just realized that I wrote "Boston" for the Stanley Cup.  I guess I was in an alternate universe, the same one where tomorrow, Eskendereya is facing off against Blind Luck (and maybe Biofuel) in the Belmont.

Of course, if I were living in this universe, it's CHICAGO.

(sorry)

04 Jun 2010 10:53 AM
mz

Hey Tim G: it's the same reason why guys who've just scored a touchdown do the chicken dance and spike the poor football into the ground.  They've been banged around so much their brains aren't really functioning well anymore.

And Laz, I'm ashamed of you!  Taking Jason's side about a sport that is REALLY world-wide. Ha!  Soon, you'll be agreeing with Draynay about something and then, bah! it's all over between us.

04 Jun 2010 11:00 AM
Jason Shandler

Fastjoey: Pretty funny stuff, except Im not Haskin. Wrong blog.

mz: Once again, soccer is not a sport.

04 Jun 2010 11:15 AM
berttheclock

"soccer is not a sport"

In the early '60s, while stationed in West Germany, 7th Army fielded a soccer team loaded with foreign nationals who were in the US Army.  They were supposed to play local German soccer teams as part of German-American Friendship.  However, they had to cancel out after several legs were broken.

In addition, I, once, attended a match in Paris between France and Italy.  Ended up one zip.  Roughest part was trying to leave the stadium safely.  Elbows were flying.  Reminded me of the Olympic in Los Angeles for boxing.  Some of the hardest fought and deadliest fights were in the stands.

However, a good buddy of mine is still watching re-runs of the Belmont, truly believing, that next time Victory Gallop won't get there.  Not to forget his "owning the Belmont" until a certain Tabasco Cat decided to run.

04 Jun 2010 11:29 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

fastjoey

  Lay off of the hard stuff. You can't handle it.

Ted from LA

  Still waiting for your top pick. I can no longer bet WPS on 9. I have to do a box. I like 4-5-9-10-12 best. Waiting for your pick so I can narrow it down and get a betting strategy. If you could decipher what fastjoey was saying I'd appreciate it. I'd rather eat brussel sprouts for a week as my only food source rather than watch a soccer game.

04 Jun 2010 11:29 AM
Draynay

mz, as a starting quarterback in High School and College I took a few hits to the head but the mind is as sharp as ever so be nice!  After First Dude wins the Belmont I don't want to hear any garbage that he was chalky and EVERYONE had him.  Most of you are talking abut horses who have no chance so don't come back here when you lose and claim EVERYONE had First Dude because you didn't !

04 Jun 2010 11:29 AM
Jason Shandler

Dray: How can you like First Dude THAT much? You ridicule me and others for liking him in the Preakness. Said he had NO chance to hit the board. Laughed at us. And now he is a cant miss in the Belmont? Makes no sense. How can you change your mind that much in 3 weeks? You're a strange bird.

04 Jun 2010 11:36 AM
Matthew W

That was, therefore is, a correctable error! Not to worry, he doesn't have the perfect game but he'll be part of baseball lore, one of my best friends won over 200 games and he's a walking encyclopidas of baseball lore, maybe thats why I love baseball and horse racing--it's the lore (or was it Lure?...)recent losses in our sport: Skip Away, Snow Chief, Chinook Pass, and you talk about lore...now the greatest coach of them all, a man they call "coach", and I mean everybody--Coach Wooden said he was a coach during the week, but gamedays it was the kids who won all of those games--thanks, coach.....

04 Jun 2010 11:44 AM
mz

Jason: read Draynay's 11:29 am post carefully, especially the "took a few hits to the head" part.

Hummm... this now explains a lot about him.

04 Jun 2010 11:46 AM
Billy's Empire

Jason, Dray is a flavor of the week kind of guy! Next week, he will be all over general quarters in the Foster, unless Rachel Runs, and then he will be all over Blame after he wins the Foster. it's his money at least, not ours!

04 Jun 2010 11:48 AM
Greg J.

Jason,

    Sorry I am late, But, My condolences to you and your family for your loss...

Man, Is it me? Or, Is this year's Belmont impossible to handicap?  I am all over the place trying to come up with picks!  I will use your $120 ticket again though!!!

Regarding Dray, You are just figuring out he is a strange bird?  A Cuckoo Bird maybe...

You should have had the Belmont contest again this year!  A month without Dray would have been sweet...

04 Jun 2010 11:50 AM
mz

Forgot to comment on the True North.

Named after a wonderful sprinter in the 60's, from one of the first crops of Northern Dancer.  I read avidly about all his babies as they came to the races -- and let me tell you, you don't know nothing about difficulty following racing unless you've had to live through those days in the 60's when "horse racing news" included barrel racing and pictures of the Queen giving trophies to people.

Still...loved True North.

04 Jun 2010 11:51 AM
Billy's Empire

you capping the pick 6 in the morning Jason?

Everyone make sure to do the belmont handicapping challenge sponsored by equibase.

Proviso v Fantasia will be a good matchup, Court Vision and Just as well, Checklist, Bribon(Dray said was best miler last year in US)Custom for Carlos, Quiet Temper, Crisp, Tidal Pool, D funnybone, Thank u Philippe, 85n50, and the list goes on, Tahitian Warrior, tons of class horses tomorrow. Good day to bet. Dont forget rainbow view is running in canada too, I thing

04 Jun 2010 11:55 AM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

I'm a strange Bird ?  First Dude puts in one of the best all time losing efforts in Preakness history and now has to face a average group and you don't think he is the winner?  He is the only real speed in the race and you don't think he is the winner?  He has Ramon D. on board and you don't think he is the winner? He has the longest stride in the race and you don't think he is the winner?  Oh, oh you think the winner is Ice Box a horse who has looked good only because of pace melt downs in the Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby ?  Did you check out his Fountain of Youth when he raced in a modest pace he will likely see Saturday ?  Let me clue you in he came in 5th and lost by 12.  That is what you have to look forward to enjoy!  I have spoken.

04 Jun 2010 12:01 PM
Matthew W

Gun Bow I saw Ancient Title win a stakes in Jan '78, eight years old, and when Chic Anderson announced his entry into the winners circle, "Millionaire Ancient Title", and that was a big thing then, I saw Steve Cauthen turn and look at him--thought that was cool, Steve Cauthen at 17 was a superstar but he, like me and everyone else, wanted to get a look at the big gelding....but I remain devoted to the multi campaigners! The best horse, for me, on Saturday--Gio Ponti! If he shows up, the Belmont will be an added bonus....

04 Jun 2010 12:06 PM
-Keelerman

I'm still in the middle of handicapping the Belmont, but here's what I'm thinking right now. . .

TOP HORSES

Ice Box

Fly Down

Spangled Star

Uptowncharlybrown

CONTENDERS

Drosselmeyer

Make Music for Me

Stately Victor

Stay Put

First Dude

LONGSHOTS

Dave in Dixie

Game On Dude

Interactif

Of course, this is subject to change if it pours rain, or if I just change my mind, but that's currently what I am thinking.

As for the undercard races, they are going to be fun to watch. I'm really looking forward to all of them.

In the Acorn Stakes, I like Amen Hallelujah, Tanda, and Streaker a lot. Streaker is undefeated in three starts, she has won at Belmont before, she has been training at Belmont for a couple of months at least, and she defeated Acting Happy in an allowance race a while back. Acting Happy came back to win the Black-Eyed Susan Stakes three weeks ago, so I would say that Streaker is a solid contender.

Now, this has nothing to do with anything, but I think it's kind of interesting that Interpatation, who is running against Gio Ponti in the Manhattan Stakes tomorrow, upset Gio Ponti at 40-1 in the Joe Hirsch Turf Classic Stakes at this track last year. Interpatation has run in the Joe Hirsch four straight years now. In 2006, he ran fourth. In 2007, he ran third. In 2008, he finished second, and in 2009 he won.

-Keelerman

04 Jun 2010 12:10 PM
LAZMANNICK

Another reason why the Belmont is important, not just as a Triple Crown race, but as a stakes race in general......In today's Brooklyn, a G-2 also at 1 1/2M, 8 are listed to go.  The combined total races in N/A lifetime for the 8 is 111.  Of all these races, only Eldaafer the winner of last year's addition has a Beyer of at least 100 which he accomplished in that race.  Pretty sad state when we have a G-2 race for older horses and less than 1% of the races has a triple digit Beyer.....I hope these Belmont contenders run big and I also hope they stick around for awhile.

04 Jun 2010 12:50 PM
Ted from LA

Still thinking, Doctor.  Will report asap.

04 Jun 2010 1:12 PM
Jason Shandler

Guys: You cant go changing 150 years of baseball history just because the media is blowing this thing up. Come on! Next thing you know we'll be changing calls every day!! No way. Human error is part of the game. Its happens a thousand times a day in baseball. Hell, every pitch is questionable as far as balls and strikes. If it was a blown call at home plate on balls and strikes would you still change the perfect game? Stop.

04 Jun 2010 1:12 PM
Jason Shandler

Guys: I will now be using the 10 horse, Stay Put, in my super bets!! I will make the change in my story to reflect that. I am starting to like him more and more to hit the board, especially if it rains.

04 Jun 2010 1:15 PM
Tim G

"the people making fun of soccer are the same people that had their girlfriend cheat on them with a soccer player. SORRY, just how it goes.

Billy's Empire 04 Jun 2010 9:29 AM"

Sorry to hear that happened to YOU Billy. When I had 'girlfriends'? I don't think soccer was played past Elementary School and only if 4 square or Dodge Ball wasn't available. I don't even remember my girlfriends names from 4th grade.

Dray, where you went to 'college' was there even another team playing against you?

Oh never mind it was your 5 other teammates on a 6 man team that were hitting you in the head. Darn some guys get ALL the fun.

Jason, you are asking the KING of the multi-pick change your mind every two seconds THAT question on First Dude?

Yes same way people want to change 140 years of racing history...

They've already toyed with instant replay in most sports sooooo.

I don't expect it to change at this point but I feel for the pitcher and for the ump (did I just say that)?

04 Jun 2010 1:26 PM
jon

I think that Charly may surprise. If I recall correctly, Secretariat was suspect at a 1 1/2 because Bold Ruler was not a distance horse. However, Secretariat's race that day proved that logic incorrect. Charly is a fresh horse, and though nothing in his pedigree suggests distance, horses do overcome those deficits.

I am only sorry that Blind Luck isn't running, or Lentenor, because both belong here. Blind Luck has strong closing speed, and Lentenor could rate well in a race of this distance.

The name First Dude reminds me of Sarah Palin's husband, and honestly, horses with stupid names are annoying. Drosselmyer is another one I discount because he has an injured frog. I guess whoever is behind him when he breaks down won't finish, so the race is wide open with mediocre to average colts. If the track is muddy, and Drosselmyer runs on an injured foot, we'll have a track littered with horses if he breaks down. Why is he running???

04 Jun 2010 1:37 PM
jayjay

Jason : I just noticed that your super didn't have Game On Dude in it, did you forget to put him in the super or did you decide to skip him on purpose and will play him on exacta and tri ?

04 Jun 2010 1:46 PM
Jason Shandler

Nah Jayjay. I dont like Game On Dude. If he hits the board Im out, but I can live with that.

04 Jun 2010 1:49 PM
Venceremos

I'll be using Stay Put in my gimmicks if it rains.  He's 2 for 2 on slop at 2 different tracks.

I'm using Game on Dude if it's dry but tossing him if it rains.  He lost by 19-1/2 lengths the last time he ran on slop.  But on a dry track it's hard to ignore the Baffert/Garcia 68% in-the-money rate.

Fly Down to me is suspect.  He won over the track but was only carrying 116 lbs.  Don't like his running style for this race either.

Oh and I watched my grass grow this morning.  Shandler is right, it really is more exciting than soccer.

04 Jun 2010 1:59 PM
Carlos in Cali

Fastjoey,  Leave 'Jurassic Haskin' alone.He's thin skinned & sentimental

04 Jun 2010 2:15 PM
jayjay

Jason : I really think fastjoey was talking about Draynay and not you, everything he said makes sense towards Draynay lol.

We all know from the replay blog what he thought of First Dude, if First Dude doesn't hit the board, watch him jump off the bandwagon and will call First Dude "a maiden winner."  This guy doesn't know how to handicap, he makes a guess, he doesn't even know if a horse is a male or female.  He follows the people's bet, after the favorite, he's lost unless he picks the 2nd favorite and it runs 1-2.  This is why I don't believe this guy makes any money at all, but he seems content and happy just bragging on blog sites lol.

Like I said, he's just here for entertainment, he is the BH blog clown mascot.

04 Jun 2010 2:17 PM
mz

Footlick: Snow Fairy won the Oaks.  Remember When finished 3rd and Rumoush was 4th.  Akdarena was 6th.  

Snow Fairy was bought back at one of their sales for 1,800euros - currently, what, about 50 cents?

Looking forward to the Derby tomorrow.  Checking on buy-back amounts for the entrants.

04 Jun 2010 2:23 PM
Speedball

Draynay Handicapping Legend-At which college were you the starting quarterback and how many students attended this institution of higher learning?  Just curious.

04 Jun 2010 2:24 PM
Tim G

jon, thanks for that cheerful preview of the race. I feel so HAPPY now!

jay, Baffert usually messes me up, and almost always in a Pick 6 or Super or SOMETHING. Hope that doesn't happen with Game On Dude....

04 Jun 2010 2:25 PM
LAZMANNICK

Bold Ruler was considered suspect at a distance because of his up front or close to the lead running style.  People seem to forget that he tried 1-1/4M 5 times and won his last three at the distance.  He also was a relatively easy winner of the Preakness.  However, in the Belmont he tried the front end and faded to third after going the first three quarters in 1.10.2.....Hear that Draynay?  That's something to think about.  If a gret horse like Bolder Ruler can't wire the field in the Belmont after setting the pace and winning the Preakness, then don't expect First Dude to do so.

04 Jun 2010 2:31 PM
Matthew W

True North: Checklist to the front, Kentucky bred out of good Cal-bred mare (Golden Eagle Farm/Mabees), he's the horse to beat and Gato Go Win can stalk from outside--he's run two races this year--both career best Beyers and you can add five points cuz it was on the pro ride--meaning he fits--the faves are beatable in here, even Fantasy Free , off best career Beyer with four works since, is a contender if the pace falls apart--I'm thinking Checklist and Gato Go Win will fight it out to the wire....love Crisp in the Acorn--Borel will have to work out the trip--she'll be closing like gangbusters, and you'll get a price! Saw her break her maiden, she's the real deal/haven't seen her best....have narrowed my Belmont exacta box to four: Make Music For Me, whom I think is the class of the race/Fly Down,  whom I think is improving and dangerous/First Dude, who will be on the lead/Interactif, who will get first run on the leader...like #4 and #5 to hit the board....in the Manhattan, like Pinckney Hill for the upset, in another great race--great card!

04 Jun 2010 3:02 PM
jayjay

Just read the live blog, going to stick to my bets but will add more exactas with MMFM and IceBox on top with Stately Victor / Stay Put and Interactif.

Good Luck All!!  Still working on that P6 and P4 ticket.

04 Jun 2010 3:07 PM
george.4

For the belmont stakes i'm going to pick for my exactor box 5 and 12

Fly Down and Interactif  For my trifecta pick , i'm going to pick 3.Uptowncharlybrown to win 6. Ice Box for place 7. Drosselmeyer. My longshot horse is 10. Stay Put.

04 Jun 2010 3:16 PM
Pedigree Shelly

         Sorry to miss the live blog ! I had a Dr's appointment ,still lame, lol ,in the right ankle from a fractured fibula :(  Anyways my picks still haven't changed , going with the AP Indy grandsons , Ice Box, First Dude , and Fly Down . Longshot bet , Stately Victor . I hope J. Lezcano can keep Ice Box closer to the pace ! I don't want to see him 20 lengths behind turning for home !

04 Jun 2010 3:20 PM
Rachel

Jason, you're right about changing the blown call...in a strange way, this could be one of the greatest moments ever in baseball...that kid was all class and the umpire was a stand-up take the shots guy...I've NEVER seen anything like it in sports.

Boxing the tri-fecta:

Ice Box

Make Music For Me

First Dude

Also, will probably put long shot on UCB and DID...because of their jockeys...

04 Jun 2010 3:31 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

  DO NOT REMOVE ANY horses from a ticket. You can add but not subtract. So what if it costs more. "The horse you remove will be the one that haunts you." As the old saying goes and it's true far too many times. This is a tough race. All you can do is give it your best shot, but if you're afraid of one horse, you might have to add him. The only way to play this race is to key the first spot or first two spots. There are a lot who could pick up the pieces, although I think it's going to be a dogfight for the first two or three spots between 3 or 4 horses. I think I'm going with a tri wheel with 4-9-10 in the top spot, with 4-9-10-12 with 4-5-6-9-10-12.

04 Jun 2010 3:32 PM
Householder

Stately Victor...I don't see it.  Four straight allowance races without hitting the board.  Then he "freaks" at huge odds in the Blue Grass.  Regardless of the slop or the bumping in Kentucky it looks like he just reverted.

04 Jun 2010 3:44 PM
moodygirl

"..as a starting quarterback in High School and College", Draynay.

Yes, and I was head cheerleader and the homecoming queen as well as graduating with a 4.0!

I said once you would be like the little boy who cried "wolf!" If you ever told the truth, no one would believe you.

Do you have an alter ego? Regular old Draynay and Draynay aka the Handicapping Legend? How do we tell the difference? I still like the Infamous Draynay myself.

04 Jun 2010 3:50 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

I'm done with my stab. The bet is in. 9 to win. 4-9 ex box. Tri wheel-4,9,10 with 4-9-10-12 with 4-5-6-9-10-12. Good luck everyone.

04 Jun 2010 3:53 PM
Householder

Matthew M.  I think your right about Make Music for Me.  If it were not for a horse named Lookin at Lucky, he would have went from maiden to winning a Grade II next start and adding the Grade I Del Mar Futurity to his resume third time out.  He appeard to be closing on Lucky each time and finally passed him in the Derby starting from dead last (28 lengths out).  You can't love Ice Box and ignore his Kentucky Derby run.  

04 Jun 2010 3:57 PM
pedigree shelly

Off of subject. This is for Ted from LA. I am so sad:( I am a GG fanatic and I love Betty White! I was hoping Rue would make her own come back. Well, such is life. Good luck on your Belmont picks :)

04 Jun 2010 3:58 PM
TJLuvsTizs

Since I have relegated myself to only owning a horse and not betting until she is back at the farm, this is my source for picking horses!

I like a 4 horse $2 Ex box ($24):

Make Music 4 me

First Dude

Drosselmeyer

Interactif

For my $1 Tri bet ($32):

First Dude, Drosselmeyer/

FD, Drosselmeyer, Ice Box, MM4M, Interactif/

FD, D, IB, MM4M, I, Fly Down

Good luck to all!

04 Jun 2010 4:11 PM
cs

GO BLACKHAWKS!!!

04 Jun 2010 4:16 PM
Householder

Interactif is the "wild card" here.  He's really only ran 1 bad race sprinting in the Sanford and ran well off a 3 month layoff although these are a little better than Bim Bam.  Bejarano is no where to be found.  Would have like to have seen him stick around for the Santa Anita Derby.

Lezcano jumps from Fly Down to Ice Box.  Drosselmeyer rids itself of Desormeaux.  Perhaps just bet the horses that have the same jockey as last out.

First Dude-Dominguez

Game on Dude-M Garcia

Ice Box-Lezcano

Make Music for Me-Rosario

Stately Victor-A Garcia

Stay Put-Theriot

04 Jun 2010 4:37 PM
Footlick

mz- I saw only one person tout Snow Fairy.  Interesting....

04 Jun 2010 4:43 PM
Draynay

Speedball, I was a freshman at Lenoir Rhyne College in Hickory North Carolina and the starting QB in 1982.  My Head Coach was Dr. Henry Vansant.  And yes, it is Division II football.

04 Jun 2010 4:43 PM
Ted from LA

Pedigree Shelly,

I must come clean.  I never saw an episode of Golden Girls.  That was just I set up for my "what's her name" (Betty White) line.  See, if I were a Golden Girls fanatic, I would have known it was Betty White, which I really knew anyway.  Wow, was that ever funny once I explained it.  Betty White was great on the Mary Tyler Moore Show.  Now, that show, I saw.  I have no clue how to handicap this race.  But that won't stop me from trying......  Hockey is like a violent soccer game on ice.  Wake me when it's over.  What do they even play for, a cup?  Where I come from, a cup is something you wear to protect your goodies when you're playing a real sport.

04 Jun 2010 5:26 PM
Kat

jon - It's a bruised frog, not a "broken" frog.  I wouldn't worry too much, the frog is a "fleshy", triangular component of the bottom of a horse's foot, sort of like the pad on the tip of your finger (or more accurately relative to horse evolution/anatomy, toe).  It probably won't trigger a breakdown, but bruised, it might not appreciate the impact on deep, sandy going.  We'll see.

04 Jun 2010 5:39 PM
Householder

10 of the last 15 winners were either first or second with 2 furlongs to run.  The biggest closer in recent history was Victory Gallop who was 5th or a mere 7 lengths behind.  This makes First Dude (a.k.a. Todd Palin), Drosselmeyer, and Interactif all that more appealing.  Fly Down as well if you overlook his trip at the Fair Grounds.  

04 Jun 2010 5:42 PM
Householder

Any upsets in Sunday's Hollywood Oaks?  Last time we saw Blind Luck at Hollywood she was 10 in front of Amen.

04 Jun 2010 6:20 PM
Tim G

OOOOH, one semester flash.

Jason you're giving your P4/P6 picks tomorrow on the live blog? Hmmm, will see if I can get a chance to watch. May be at the track. Would've been at Belmont if only........

Flyers tonight right?

Lets all say a prayer for Coach Wooden.

04 Jun 2010 6:26 PM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

Drosselmeyer, Interactif, and Dixie are going to battle for last place there is no reason to have any of these horses on your ticket they are not G1 horses and do not belong in the race.  I have spoken.

04 Jun 2010 6:32 PM
LH1216

Householder - Sometimes you have to dig deep to find a horse you like. Stately Victor's 4 allowance races and beyond -

Nov 1st Churchill. He exited that race very ill (according to Steve Haskins).

Jan 31st Gulfstream. He came back after a 3 month layoff straight into a 1 1/8 mile race. He got tired.

Feb 17th Gulfsteam (turf). Joe Bravo was lazy on him most of the race and when he finally started to pick it up nearing the stretch, he was cut off at the rail and had to check hard. Race over at that point. He still managed to get the last 1/8 in 11:09...

March 7th Gulfstream (turf). Edgar Prado had him still almost last in the stretch, swung him out and slowly got him rolling. By the time he hit the wire he was gaining ground like crazy on the lead and was in a 4 way photo for 2nd.

April 10th Keeneland (poly). He closed up like a champ in a meet where the track was very unkind to closers, and galloped out like he wanted to run around again.

May 1st Churchill. Desormeaux on Paddy O'Prado cut off Stately Victor and carried him into Lookin at Lucky and the two of them collided pretty hard. Then another rider comes up and bumps him again, then he bounces a bit between 2 others... before the first turn. On the final turn, he makes up over 12 lengths, runs into a wall of horses, gets bumped - again - and still pushed his way up through horses before finally getting tired of sucking mud. It's funny if you watch Super Saver's gallop out after the finish. You will see #6 run by him like he's running to the playground...

All of this information is free as long as you promise not to bet on Stately Victor. I'd like him to stay as close to his morning line as possible, thank you very much. Between him and Fly Down (5 to 1? better?), this should be a great wallet stretcher of a race.

04 Jun 2010 6:36 PM
nickie

TJ, i like your pix.You include Interactif who I know JS, and Mr.Haskin also think may run well. The more I look at that pedigree, the more I think he just may make a sweet ticket! The rider won't hurt our cause either. Good Luck to all, and this race is certainly a lot tuffer than Zitos[and I'm a fan] duo! They win, I lose!

04 Jun 2010 6:37 PM
Anita Knapp

I'm betting a 5-8-9 exacta box on the Belmont.  

I'm gonna use 6 Belmont horses (5/6/8/9/10/12) in my All GS Pick 4 ticket, but I'm not terribly confident in any of them.  So I might use the ALL button and single the other races to keep my costs down.  

04 Jun 2010 7:09 PM
2:24

Draynay - impressive.

Are you a fan of eastern or western Carolina barbeque?

04 Jun 2010 7:41 PM
Paula Higgins

O.k., I can't let all this slamming of soccer go by without a couple of comments. Did anyone but me see the American women's soccer team beat the Chinese women's soccer team for the world title in one of the most exciting games EVER several years back???  It was a fantastic game. It made the cover of SPORTS ILLUSTRATED (Brandy Chastain). By the way, Michele Akers (the captain of the woman's soccer team) lives in my home town and has a horse rescue farm. The reason I know this is because my husband (Stormwater Manager for the county) is trying to help her with a flooding situation that is impacting her barn/horses. These players are tremendous athletes, and Jason it is not like watching paint dry LOL.

Still sticking with Ice Box to win.

04 Jun 2010 8:08 PM
sherpa

gee, that Brooklyn finish was almost as painful to watch as Cloudy's Knight losing the BC Marathon last Nov.  Poor Gabriel's Hill, what a heartbreaker.

Speaking of Cloudy, I'm still bummed that he re-injured his tendon and most likely is retired.  I was really looking forward to his 10yo season.

-Keelerman, I sure do remember Interpatation's win in the JHTC last year.  It's one of my favorite races to go back to and watch from time to time.  He showed such incredible heart in a downpour - much of it you can barely see the horses on the video behind that curtain of rain!  Great race!

04 Jun 2010 8:44 PM
predict

 I don't know if this race is really as difficult to pick the winner as it seems , or if I'm just making it that way. I would compare picking this year's winner to farting in the bath tub and trying to bet on which bubble hits the surface first. The result ends up stinking no matter what..... And so it is with that analogy, that I offer up my Belmont picks.

 The number one post hits at a high percentage at Belmont, so I'll include Dave in Dixie in all my gimmicks, he's the bomb. The next horse to include no matter what is Drosselmeyer; foot problems?.. no problem they took Desormeux off, and put someone on him that gives him a real chance.

The following horses , Make Music for Me, Game on Dude and Stay Put, all look like they belong with this bunch, but they all have one problem and that is why I'm tossing them (COMPLETELY! not including on any tickets), and that is, their jockeys, they are Belmont rookies, and I'm taking the stand that since this is such a unique track, they will make mistakes their first time here that will hurt their horses chances.

The horse I am going with will be Uptowncharlybrown. He looks fantastic, has been training over the Belmont surface for about a month. He has looked like he wants more distance, so should love the mile and a half. Superb jockey change. I just think he's the bubble that gets to the surface first- I told you it would stink.

04 Jun 2010 8:46 PM
LAZMANNICK

Speedball

Lenoir Rhyne College has an enrollment of 1600 students.  Considering that half of them might be female, and half of the remaining half are probalby basketball players, and half of the remaining half probably just want to go to school to learn, there are probably 200 able young men there to play football.  That means that fearless Dray probably had to compete with less than 3 or 4 young men for the quarterback position.  Do they have a soccer team at this school Dray?????

04 Jun 2010 8:55 PM
Tim G

Laz, I'm impressed. BUT, can you figure WHY someone who is the 'starting' QB at a small DII school, only stayed there one year/semester?  Remember THIS is the guy proclaiming himself to be a genius.

Paula, I do love you, but you're also a figure skating fan, right?

I'd rather watch figure skating than soccer.

The sage green paint drying was extremely exciting but the red? Now that had us on pins and needles.

Actually the College Baseball World Series is pretty exciting.

Flyers winning, but I can't find it on TV>>>>>>>>?

Oh and of course the past Belmonts on ECL.

04 Jun 2010 9:23 PM
Tim G

OOPS, NHL on Versus. Not that I'm a fan but... supporting Jason on this one.

04 Jun 2010 9:27 PM
sodapopkid

I seriously think Dray lives in his own dream world..........

04 Jun 2010 9:40 PM
jayjay

Done, all my bets are in.  Good luck to all!  Enjoy the races, it'll be a great racing day tomorrow!

Here are my P6 and P4 bets :

PICK 6 :

3

5

7

2,7

1,5,3

6,4,9,5,10

$60.00

PICK 4 :

7,3

2,7

1,5,3

6,4,9,5,10

$60.00

04 Jun 2010 9:43 PM
Footlick

Jason, Tim G, Laz et all- I know a few of pro soccer players who would love to show you how much of a non-sport soccer is.  But then, their fans would like to have a go at you guys too-lol.  I hear the Argentines and the Brits have their own way of "educating".

04 Jun 2010 9:54 PM
Karen in Indiana

Jason, for once, I agree with you. :-) Ice Box has been my favorite for all the reasons you stated. And I was looking at the horses on Pursuit of the Crown tonight & wasn't really impressed with any of them until they showed Stately Victor. Wow, he looks great! Filled out and balanced, looks ready to go. No Triple Crown on the line, but it looks like a good race in its own right.

04 Jun 2010 10:17 PM
Jason Shandler

Footlick: Soccer is fine--for kids. Its just that I was taught, once you grow up you play real sports. Kicking is for children. Throwing/catching/shooting/tacklingis for adults.

04 Jun 2010 10:18 PM
Draynay

Lazmannick your knocking The Lenoir Rhyne University ?  Great Football and Track Team and a pretty good Basketball Team back in the day.  And when I first stepped on the field there were 6 quarterbacks. I earned the job started every game and earned Freshman of the year honors.  Go Bears !

04 Jun 2010 10:51 PM
Draynay

2:24 you nailed it baby !!! I am a fan of all Carolina BQ !  Had many a roast and loved it loved it loved it.

And the pies.....don't get me started.

04 Jun 2010 10:54 PM
Tim G

Yes and then what happened Dray???

We're on pins and needles...

I'm sure the other guys who were on the field with you couldn't make the chess team so went out for FB. Then when you started 'I have spoken' routine they went out for cheerleader, couldn't get off the field you had stepped on fast enough.

I'm sorry Footlick, but it seems like a couple of people run around the rest are doing who knows what. Too many headers with the soccer ball?

Sure I know they head butt, beat up the refs and their fans will kill each other but to me it's just blah. Rugby or Aussie rules football? While barbaric it's at least exciting.

Yeah Jason, your Flyers won, my baseball teams in the NCAA's did well.

On a sadder note, the greatest college basketball coach of all time passed away. God bless Coach Wooden.

04 Jun 2010 11:34 PM
Alexaso

"Kicking is for children. Throwing/catching/shooting/tacklingis for adults."

With that genius logic, I guess running, boxing, and mma aren't sports either. With all of the bashing of horse racing that we endure, it is amazing that horse people don't hesitate to bash another sport like soccer. People grow up! Soccer is one of the greatest sports, and if you don't like it, so be it....but please don't reduce yourself to such infantile statements.

Please don't forget about the Epsom Derby tomorrow morning! A great way to start Belmont day!

04 Jun 2010 11:42 PM
Tim G

Hmmm. The LAST sure thing Dray touted for the Belmont, like he's doing for First Dude? Just watching the replay of that debacle makes me embarrassed.

04 Jun 2010 11:42 PM
Paula Higgins

Tim G I love you too! Yes, I love figure skating but not as much as horse racing. Not even close. Figure skating is a sport that is in decline in the U.S. and for reasons I won't go into here. I pray that doesn't happen to horse racing. Truthfully, I don't watch soccer (except for that one game). But Michelle Akers rescues horses so I had to speak up for her/her sport LOL.

05 Jun 2010 12:19 AM
LAZMANNICK

Footlick:

Sorry I took so long to get back to you about the Argentines and the Brits.  I started watching a soccer game and fell asleep.  LOL

05 Jun 2010 12:38 AM
LAZMANNICK

Draynay.....I'm not knocking The Lenoir Rhyne University.  Any school that could put up with you for an entire year has to be special.  LOL

05 Jun 2010 12:39 AM
Racingfan

Ice Box, Make Music For Me, First Dude are my picks.

05 Jun 2010 1:41 AM
Ted from LA

I am sorry if this was sent already... I am working diligently with BP to solve this oil spill.  Stately Victor will win the Belmont Stakes by 32 lengths.  Did you get that "Dr.?"  Side bet... 4-5-6-7 tri and super box.  And 9 over the 4567 tri and super box.  Shhhhhhh....  That is what my darts and logic told me. Don't even get me started on the other voices. Advice to all of you this fine Belmont Day...  bet $50 machine pick superfectas.  Report back to Dr. Drunkinbum how you did.  If you win over 3 million based on my advice, please buy Ted from LA a condo in lower Manhattan or southern Indiana.    

05 Jun 2010 3:43 AM
Sam Not Spam

OK, firstly Rewilding for THE Derby, he's not necessarily the best 3yo out there but he'll cope with the Epsom undulations better than the rest (yesterday's surprise Oaks winner won her trial at the same track as this horse), and this is the year of the French in Europe.  Plus the French Derby (Prix du Jockey-Club) is on Sunday and I see that as being the hottest Euro 3yo race so far, there's 25 starters and it'll be a rough race but Lope de Vega is my pick there, plus look to the French to provide the main contenders for this year's BC.

OK, now I haven't posted picks for US races before as I've been content to watch and learn.  Here goes nothing!  I see First Dude rating in this race before powering away in the last 3 furlongs.  I think Spangled Star may well be the big-priced upset horse, he'll love the distance and over 12 furlongs that really matters.  Third is Fly Down, who seems to be improving but may well hit the wall here.  If Ice Box hangs back he'll come up short as the pace winds up on the lead, and get lost somewhere on the last turn.

Anyway, I can only bet over in the UK and the prices/bets are different over here, I'd love to be able to tap into the US betting market and play the exotics like you guys!  Oh well... just need to find somewhere to watch the race too... good luck all!

05 Jun 2010 4:34 AM
Sam Not Spam

Oh and you're right, soccer/football isn't a sport.  Real men play Rugby, and real women enjoy watching it ;).  Puts even American Football to shame!

05 Jun 2010 4:37 AM
jayjay

The most annoying thing about watching soccer on TV is that the field is way too big to follow whoever player you're rooting for and once you find them, they kick the ball and then you have to start all over.  I wanted the camera to follow Brandy or Mia around, they should only show the goal when there is a score.  Now that both are retired, no reason for me to watch soccer at all lol.

Vanity will have 4 horses!!! She'll have to run her 2008 Lady Secret to get St. Trinians.

05 Jun 2010 4:42 AM
Bellwether

MUSIC MAN CAN...WIN/PL...ty...

05 Jun 2010 5:29 AM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

Tim, that surprises me.  I would think embarrassment for you would begin every day with the morning shave.

05 Jun 2010 6:25 AM
JJJ

Spangled Star

05 Jun 2010 7:46 AM
thederbydream.com

Ok here goes Im going with winstar to get the job done with Drosselmeyer, Ice Box up for the place and longshot Stay Put for the show. http://www.thederbydream.com/

05 Jun 2010 8:58 AM
JerseyBoy

Alexaso:

I like your post at 11:42 on June 4.

Excellent.

The people you refer to there are probably  among those who think First Dude can get 1.5 miles.

05 Jun 2010 9:03 AM
Sam Not Spam

Damn - delete that last comment Jason, he was Denny then, damn!

05 Jun 2010 9:54 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

Ted from LA

  Dude.I got it but it's not even funny that you posted it after I made my bet. Usually you're very funny and your humor is much appreciated. I assume it was a bureaucratic snafu. Anyway yours is very similar to mine so we both could hit it. If I recall correctly you said you'd like a condo in Lower Mongolia or southern Tijuana. Is that correct? As long as you can blog from there we don't care. John Wooden sure brings back some memories. Gail Goodrich, Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton. And he was the greatest college coach. Remember the stall games opposing teams used to try to beat them? I'm drawing a blank on who that forward was that shot the rainbow jumpers from the corner. Help.

05 Jun 2010 10:26 AM
Buddah

I smell an upset.  FIRST DUDE, GAME ON DUDE, AND INTERACTIC set the pace. FIRST DUDE puts away those two but doesn't have enough to hold off fast closing UPTOWNCHARLEYBROWN and ICEBOX.  Longshot UPTOWNCHARLYBROWN gets his pic taken in the winner's circle.

05 Jun 2010 10:32 AM
Sam Not Spam

Aaagh, Rewilding only 3rd, look out for him during the year as he's still got growing to do and he may be the horse to take from the race.  The winner Workforce set a new course record on only his 3rd race by nearly 1 second, but I think 12 furlongs plus is his game and you won't see him in the Classic for sure!  Not the best 3yo by any means, the 100-1 pacemaker was second, and the fact there were only 12 runners versus the 25 there'll be in the French Derby tomorrow tells you a lot.

05 Jun 2010 11:10 AM
-Keelerman

-sherpa

I agree completely about Cloudy's Knight. I love watching the old geldings race and cheer for them wherever they happen to be running. I was looking forward to a great season from Cloudy until the tendon injury. I was still looking for someone to take Better Talk Now's place as my favorite gelding.

I guess now it's up to Brass Hat. . .

-Keelerman

05 Jun 2010 11:39 AM
Tim G

Ha Dray, at least I don't have to fight the glare from my dome. The word I heard applied to you? Give me a man with a head of hair any day and PLASTIC man, now THAT has to hurt.

One thing I can say, you are a master at dodging questions. Come on genius, you should have graduated Magna Cum Laude at the very least, if not Summa Cum Laude...can't say that with a straight face.

Laz, they were nominated for the Sainthood. Luckily it didn't take long for them to rid themselves of him.

The guy thinks he's sooooo handsome and thinks the rest of us are dogs... IF he ONLY knew.LOL

No matter HOW you twist it Dray, the last 2 Belmonts you have been so offbase it was ridiculous. You were mimicing Rick saying that BB was a SURE thing. ROFLMAO. Now you're doing the same with First Dude when he was a no win DOG when Jason picked him. TOOOOOO funny.

05 Jun 2010 11:42 AM
LAZMANNICK

Tim G

Maybe there's something to the rumour that the school offered to pay him three times the tuition fee if he would leave.  In the meantime I'm still sticking with FLYDOWN, over ICE BOX over DROSSELMEYER and INTERACTIF.  To late for Mr. Wonderful to jump on my bandwagon now. LOL

05 Jun 2010 12:53 PM
Rivercitysmitty

I think Stay Put will win today and have him boxed with Fly Down and Make Music 4 Me.  There really isn`t much pace in the race, but I`m hoping Interactif or Charleybrown runs with First Dude.  Ice Box will have to be a whole lot closer than he was @ CD to have a shot, but will still probably be less than 2-1.

The Acorn is a good betting race. I like Buckleupbuttercup since she won for me in Louisville.  Seeking the Title has a shot if Desormeaux doesn`t fall off again.

Custom For Carlos looked to be a lock in the True North, but has been scratched.  What`s up with More Than Ready?  He`s run 9 times already this year and 51 times lifetime.  Nice horse but his trainer seems to be running his legs off.  I took him WP for the hell of it.  

Thank U Philippe is the only closer in the Woody Stephens and might be worth a few bucks

05 Jun 2010 12:58 PM
Footlick

Workforce ran a great race.  Rewilding got untracked late, but ran well.

05 Jun 2010 1:08 PM
mz

Footlick: gotta say that I admired At First Sight.  100 - 1 and took off and hung on, hung on, hung on until passed -- but only by Workforce in race record time.  

Poor Bullet Train.

Did you notice, however, this was only Workforce's 3rd start ever?  Don't they even have a couple of maidens in the Prix du Jockey Club tomorrow?  Weird.

p.s.  Soccer IS TOO a sport.  You'll notice this when in a few days THE WHOLE WORLD (and I mean THE WHOLE WORLD) will be fixated on South Arica for a month.  Suck it up, guys.  

05 Jun 2010 2:22 PM
Footlick

mz- It was a great race by At First Sight.  That was my knock against Workforce, that it was only his third start, and because of his bit disaster in his last race I wasn't sure how much he got out of it.  It didn't matter-lol.  I thought Rewilding ran a great race too.  I like Planteur and Loup de Vega in the French.  I probably just cursed them as my picks aren't doing that well.

05 Jun 2010 3:00 PM
Pedigree Shelly

       Well guys , I'm getting ready to go to the track to make my bets ,come home and watch the race !!! I'll be keying Ice Box for my Exactas ! Good Luck to All :)

05 Jun 2010 3:33 PM
Aluminaut

One of my manager's suggested that I go ahead and let the bird pick a Super as the race is too hard to handicap.

Shasta the Derbyan's picks are (in chewed up and tossed out order)----4,5,8,6, and 3.  That's MMFM, Fly Down, Game On Dude, Ice Box and Uptowncharlybrown (no!).  

.10 Super Box--3,4,5,6,8 for $12.

$1 Super Box 4,5,6,8. for $24.

$20 to win on #12 Interactif.

$5 to win on #1 Dave in Dixie (for the reverse Draynay curse).  and a $2 Exacta Box on 1 & 12 for the same reason.

Not going to make it to SA in time for the pick 4--my fault.

05 Jun 2010 4:03 PM
mz

Footlick: I agree with Lope de Vega but I also am thinking about Ice Blue and weirdly, I would like Royal Bench to finish well -- I liked Whipper, his sire.  Now Lope de Vega has the double kiss of death: you AND me.

Good luck to them all (and BTW to Stately Victor and MMforMe)

05 Jun 2010 4:21 PM
RJPPDP

Alright everyone, I could decide who to put on top so I selected 5 horses in the 1st and 2nd spot in my 10 cent super. Then I picked all and all for 3rd and 4th. If i blow it all well

I have:

2) Spangled Star Hunch

5) Fly Down

6) Ice Box

11) First Dude

12) Interactid

I hope it works

05 Jun 2010 4:37 PM
odelay

Are the Belmont horses in the detention barn?

05 Jun 2010 5:22 PM
Rachel

I need a pat on the shoulder and a big "suck it up, loser"...didn't Jason just tell us about pulling a horse from a bet and losing big? Did you all not say "always go with your gut?"

Well, in the Acorn, not quite brave enough to do the $1 superfecta, I did do the .10...with Tanda, QT, AH, TP and, yes, CD'O!!! and then, I took CD'O OUT OF MY BET! AAAAGGGHHH!

Why, Why? I felt she was due, I like her jock...why?

Pinch me, maybe I'm dreaming...

05 Jun 2010 6:13 PM
Ted from LA

There is nothing better than a TV interview with a jockey riding a horse 20 miles an hour with English as his second language.

05 Jun 2010 6:30 PM
Runfast159

Whoo whoo!  I decided to do a tri box with my bet and won!!  Lost with my win bet on First Dude though.

So excited to see Bill Mott, one of my all time favorite trainers, take his first classic!  And you can't have better connections than the Winstar folks to take another leg of the Triple Crown.  Congrats to everyone!

The only other win I had was a Proviso-Phola exacta in the Just a Game.  

05 Jun 2010 6:50 PM
Vic S - Stately Victor's #1 Fan

Ok, I am willing to admit I was wrong.  Stately Victor didn't win the Belmont.  :  (.  Still I can say I did hit the Triple Crown in this year in a weird way.  In all three Triple Crown races the horse I picked to win got 8th place (Derby - Vic 8th, Preak - Super 8th, and Belmont - Vic 8th).  I was thinking about it this morning and unluckily enough it played out.  My 9-5-11, trifecta was torn to shreds if only I had picked 7 instead of 9 I'd be a pig in ****.  O well, very slow running I was wrong about that as well.  I'd say Lookin At Lucky is top 3 year old still, with First Dude 2nd, Super Saver 3rd, and Paddy O' Prado 4th.  I will say though I still have the utmost confidence that Stately Victor has more big races in him.  Stately Victor I'll be rooting you on your whole career.  What a wonderful Triple Crown even if the results weren't to my liking not one horse that I can think of came out any race with an injury which hasn't been done in years if not since the last decade.

05 Jun 2010 7:17 PM
Draynay

I don't blame trainers for complaining the track was a disaster.  Why would they have the track that deep ?  Why ?  It cost First Dude a Belmont win. What was the time?  In a track that deep I bet it was one of the all time slowest in the last 70 years !!!  Speed horses were dying all over the place.  What a shame the track was so bias.  If you have a speed horse don't take him to Belmont. Sad.

05 Jun 2010 7:27 PM
Tim G

Well, well. Drosselmeyer. When I saw Mikey run so well on Tanda, when I saw him win on Proviso?

I added him to my bet strictly on a hunch. Ice Box was bet down WAAAAY too much so got off him.

I know and anyone in racing knows this is a JOCKS race, a friend reminded me of it. Then of course in the Draynay gambling theory the 7 and the jock. LOL.

Fly Down ran pretty well. The heavy track didn‘t help a couple that much.

Figured FD would get on the board but figured 4th, oh well added him for the Tri, figured Drays jinx wouldn't extend beyond the first two. The P4 knocked out on my early race I was having trouble with and Superfecta pfffft.

Poor Uptown, he's jinxed worse than LAL ever was.

Like I said, Baffert kills me every time I bet him and every time I don't.

05 Jun 2010 7:46 PM
Tim G

Oh, and poor Uptown! That horse/connections have the worst luck.

05 Jun 2010 7:48 PM
Vic S - Stately Victor's #1 Fan

Only one person through all the picks chose Drosselmeyer to win no strings attached (super, box, etc.) and that was DERBYDREAM.COM, who ever you are nice job.

05 Jun 2010 7:50 PM
Aluminaut

Jason,

I think you and Kent D. should go drinking tonight.  I know you liked Drosselmeyer earlier this year for a long time.  Kent kinda deserves it.  You don't quite.

Before you comment, yup, obviously I can't handicap my way out of a paper bag at this point.  And it's a good thing that I got shut out on the pick 4. Bird Shasta is not a handicapping tool....Just a Tool.

05 Jun 2010 7:56 PM
ruffianruns

Guess who said the following?

"Drosselmeyer, Interactif, and Dixie are going to battle for last place there is no reason to have any of these horses on your ticket they are not G1 horses and do not belong in the race.  I have spoken."

05 Jun 2010 8:01 PM
Paula Higgins

Well that was a surprise. The Belmont crowd thought so too. My favorite Ice Box was lost in space, geesh. I wonder what happened there? He is a much better horse than that. First Dude didn't do badly though. Glad to see Drosselmyer do well. No one got hurt. I'm happy. D'funnybone did well today too.

05 Jun 2010 8:22 PM
jayjay

Congrats to Winstar, Bill Mott is a great trainer!  A very very sad day of racing for me lol.  I'm glad that Drosselmeyer got the win, even though I didn't play him.  

Draynay : What were you saying about Drosselmeyer before ??  Oh yeah, let me guess, you have spoken.  I'm sure you had hundreds on him because you bet the number right?  no, the jockey...no, wait, it was the trainer or maybe the owners ??  

I've no idea what happened to IceBox, I'll wait for GunBows analysis of the race.  I stuck with him and it cost me but I'm not giving up on him.  I'm sure we'll see more of him.  I think this year's crop of 3 yr olds are very very mediocre.  I wouldn't be surprised if different horses wins the rest of the 3 yr old races this year.

This year's TC is very grueling to handicap for me, very tough handicapping and it's not because they're very good horses, it's quite the opposite.

Congrats to those who hit the win and exotics, you very well deserved it!!  On to the Vanity!!  Hopefully next weekend will be much better as far as my picks goes lol.  Looks like the only few that actually mentioned Dross in this blog are george / HouseHolder / LAZ and Draynay LOL.

05 Jun 2010 8:47 PM
jayjay

Sorry Jason, forgot to congratulate you, you probably hit the tri and super as well.  I know you were going to try and beat IceBox if he was lower than 2-1 so I'm hoping you played Dross on top.

05 Jun 2010 8:53 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

I'm happy for Mike Smith getting his first Belmont, and that was a great gesture dedicating the win to The Mig. I loved Drosselmeyer earlier in the year, then I tossed him for The Belmont. Both Dudes ran good. Fly Down started his run too late. I sucked but went cheap knowing this one was too tough for me. Who do you like in next year's Derby? No condo for Ted from LA. Sorry. That 3 million you need might be there next Belmont race day Pk6. I'm on sabbatical now so I'll be passing. Photos and other near misses killed me this year and my handicapping brain was mush by Preakness. Next big meet-Keeneland, all out there, then all out at Breeder's, then GP and the preps. Keep in touch and don't forget to write. I just read Baffert's book-"Dirt Road to the Derby." I loved it. $2.95 at Bloodhorse. What a deal.

05 Jun 2010 9:09 PM
Pedigree Shelly

        Congrats to all who bet on Drosselmeyer ! I wish it would have been me ! I should have stayed home :( :(

05 Jun 2010 9:21 PM
Tim G

Vic isn't that The Derby Dream, Mark Toothaker?

Jason was on Dross then off, Dray was dissing him. Add to that Mikey having a hot day and combo with Billy and well it was just a hunch bet for me. Not bad though on the Tri.

05 Jun 2010 9:47 PM
Draynay

Garbage.  Let me know when the 2010 Belmont winner wins another race. Drosselmeyer = Da Tara.

05 Jun 2010 9:51 PM
Tim G

Oh by the way, Dray? The track was deep because the wind was blowing the water off of it, hello......

It's called BIG SANDY for a reason. If they can't get water on it, it gets deep when they work (harrow) the track. Too bad they couldn't control the wind.

And as everyone always says, they all run on the same track. Bet it hurt Ice Box worse than FD. He just wasn't going to get a mile and a half. PERIOD.

No matter how many excuses you make or how much you whine. I'd say give up the Belmont. You can't pick anything there.

At least the umbrella blew onto it when there was no race going on.

05 Jun 2010 9:54 PM
Vic S

Draynay, the speed was hardly dying today.  Maybe in the sprints when they run 22 and 44 opening quarters but it held up pretty well throughout the day, the opening race won wire to wire as did Champagne d'Oro not too long before the Belmont.  Your handicapping is flawed and deep tracks don't necessarily detract from front runners speed.  First Dude got beat by fresh horses I will give him that, but hardly the track.  2.31 and change was actually due to lack of early pace and lack of OUT OF THE CLOUDS CLOSERS, you had two steady grinders get up for for 1st and 2nd, a horse like Afleet Alex would have gone sub 2.30 due to his push button acceleration even given the pace.  It was simply a weak lot of closers that finally caught up to First Dude, but I still believe as you do as well that he was the best horse in the race.  That said a winner is always deserving, Drosselmeyer ran his race and won, no excuses for anyone.

05 Jun 2010 9:55 PM
Jason Shandler

Jayjay: I didnt cash. I had Drosselmeyer in exotics but not on top. I was on the horse all Triple Crown season but got off after the Dwyer. Couldnt get past him losing by 6 to Fly Down. Then foot issues. lol. Figures.

Dray: You are sad. Really. Every time you lose there is an excuse. Wet track. Deep track. Fractions. Fluke. Etc. Just admit you were wrong. For once. Youre act is tired.

05 Jun 2010 10:04 PM
Footlick

mz- Ice Blue, Bekhabad and Simon de Monfort are all strong picks, as well as the British duo of Cape Blanco and Viscount Nelson.  It's a huge field though, 23 horses, so luck will have to be involved.

05 Jun 2010 10:11 PM
Rechelle

First, I must say I am not surprised that Ice Box didn't win.  I am surprised he finished as far back as he did, but he never seemed comfortable when they showed him today.  Whether it was the heat or the track, I don't know, but I have never thought he was as good as a lot of people thought he was.  He got into the Derby by winning the Florida Derby by a nose.

Dray, give it up.  Drosselmeyer is a distance horse and I suspect he'll be in the BC Marathon in November.  He ran a great race and deserves the credit.  You may not realize it, or you may just be dismissing it, but Drosselmeyer had a race over the Belmont surface, coming in 2nd to Fly Down in the Dwyer.  It's not coincidence that Drosselmeyer & Fly Down came in first & second again today.  Get over yourself.

Jason, how often do weights just "fall off" during races??  I am having a very hard time believing that the weight just fell off Charly in the backstretch.  I feel SOOOO bad for his connections, he ran gamely today and came in 5th, just to be disqualified because the weight "fell off".  

05 Jun 2010 10:14 PM
Footlick

mz- by the way, isn't Moore on Ice Blue?  Do you think he could get a treble???

05 Jun 2010 10:15 PM
2-cents

Maybe he isn't bright enough to realize he's wrong.

And I'm glad that it looked like Big Sandy reverted back to her old self - a bit deep but FAIR.

05 Jun 2010 10:19 PM
jayjay

LOL, I was wrong, Draynay's excuse is the track SURFACE lol.  Never ceases to amaze me.

Vic : yeah, you're right, DerbyDream had it right.  Congrats DerbyDream!  Well done!

I for one is very happy that TC races are over, I still have a headache from handicapping these races lol.  The only hit I had today was the Clement exacta and that didn't last long.

05 Jun 2010 10:21 PM
Paula Higgins

Ted from LA "there is nothing better than---------------with English as his second language." I am laughing my head off. Dr Drunkinbum, I think you should buy Ted that condo anyway.

Apart from Quality Road (and maybe Rail Trip), what US horse MIGHT be able to beat Zenny at the Breeders Cup Classic this year? No one that I can see.

05 Jun 2010 10:28 PM
2:24

I won no bets today.  

This triple crown season saddened me.  I wish Eskendereya stayed healthy.

Let's hope Rachel returns and stays healthy and Zenyatta comes east this summer.  Note to Jess and Jerry: Quality Road is going to the Whitney and the Woodward.  Take your horses there, show up, and give us fans what we want.  No excuses.

05 Jun 2010 10:35 PM
Sam Not Spam

Well I was right about Ice Box at least!  If there's one thing us Euros know it's that you can't hang back off a steady pace, if you're not within 4-5 lengths off the lead you're cooked.

Drosselmeyer looked great considering his foot problems, that was a fine training performance.  The Dude did well to hang on for third seeing as he seemed to run out of steam in the last furlong, he's going to be a hard horse to place as his finishing kick just doesn't quite burn off the opposition, I hope he races next year as I can see him developing further and becoming a real powerhouse.

Finally even I know that Belmont rides deep, someone needs to quit whining!

05 Jun 2010 11:56 PM
jayjay

Paula : I don't either, unless some of these 3 yr olds goes popeye on us with their spinach this summer.  I don't know if Foster will produce a monster either.  Will RA be back to her old self ?  She's had the same "great" workout before the La Troinne, I don't think it's a physical issue with RA, I think it's more mental but maybe they got her mindset back to winning races, we'll see.  It's a little funny though that Jess announced a list of races for her next start, I wonder if they're trying to scare competition by mentioning the races and will pick the softest spot.  Unfortunately, with the two losses this year, there's going to be some owners/trainers that would be willing to take a chance.  I would bet the farm (if I had one) that Foster is not a real option for RA at this time.  I really think they're trying to see who's going to the 3 other races they mentioned and find the easiest one.  A win is very very important at this point or retirement will be her only other option.

Regardless of the outcome of next week's Vanity, the quest for the record will be over and the pressure is off.  I think Team Z will open up her schedule.  I'm hoping that we will see them go all out for her final year of racing.  The fans (as well as the bashers) of Zenyatta are quite keen on finding out how many gears she has and how deep that tank is on her final racing year.  I'm hoping that they go to the Woodward, then the JCGC and finally the Classic.  Having said that though, I wouldn't want risking injury to herself, she doesn't need HOTY.

06 Jun 2010 12:15 AM
dbs

This was the slowest Belmont since 1995 when Thunder Gluch won in 2:32. It was also the 11th slowest since 1926.

06 Jun 2010 12:18 AM
CV

Champagne d'Oro? Really? Why couldn't I have just just put a couple dollars on her nose? Ugh.

06 Jun 2010 12:24 AM
Tim G

Drunk, yep I read that a couple years ago. It reads just like Bobby is in person (or more like he was).

Now they have the Legends series for $5 each. Old timers lke Dr Fager etc. Several by Steve Haskin.

We don't always agree on our consults (well MY consultations) but I posted about Coach Wooden and saw your comment.

We agree on him at least. What a great, kind and wise man he was. A life well lived.

Draynay, I suggest you read his book here are some examples of his philosophy, take heed:

"Wooden Family sets of 3’s”

Never lie. Don’t whine.

Never cheat. Don’t complain.  

Never steal. Don’t make excuses."

Also this advice would serve you well:

“Talent is God-given; be humble.

Fame is man-given; be thankful.

Conceit is self-given; be careful.”

The third of these applies most to you. As Jason said your act is sad, and we know it's just an act.

06 Jun 2010 12:28 AM
GunBow

I forgot to congratulate veteran trainer Don Warren and last year's top apprentice jockey Christian Santiago Reyes who both scored their first gr.1 with Acclamation.

06 Jun 2010 12:43 AM
Rechelle

Sam, I don't think Ice Box was himself at all today, even though I'm not on his bandwagon, I did notice he was surly in the barn area, most of the time the cameras would show him, his ears were back, he was not happy.  Reminiscent of Giacomo & Big Brown.  Once I saw that, I knew it was all over but the cryin and that wasn't far behind.  

I've got to give Game On Dude credit.  He ran fantastic and held on for his 4th place, especially since no one was showing him any support.  I knew after his Lone Star Derby win that he would run well in the Belmont and I believed that Baffert wouldn't have taken him to the Belmont if he didn't see something there that he liked.  Add in Martin Garcia and it was just a combo that I really did like.  I think Game On will improve as he ages and hopefully will be peaking nicely for the summer & fall races.  

First Dude is going to make people sit up & take notice I think in the summer races, along with Super Saver.  I'm not yet on the Lucky bandwagon, but I will say he ran beautifully in the Preakness.  It'll be interesting to see what Drosselmeyer does the rest of the season.  Summer Bird last year used his Belmont win to go on to win some other pretty big races and was the last one to beat Quality Road.  Drosselmeyer may do similar things, but I think he's going to be more of a long distance horse.  

All in all, an interesting day!  I was thrilled to see Rachel's half sister, Champagne D'Oro, win the Acorn today.  I've been a huge fan of hers since she came onto the track and I think she can do better than she's been doing.  I think they finally put the right jockey on her with Martin Garcia.  

06 Jun 2010 12:46 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

There was one monster today-Workforce-dominant in 3rd career race in Epsom Derby. Too bad we missed out on Eskendereya. Our 3 year olds are looking a little weak. Luckily we still have our superstar in Zenyatta but I think the Europeans are going to be strong on Breeder's Cup day. However, Zenyatta can't be beat in The Classic. Ted from LA. I took your advice and I'm going to be able to get you your condiments. I hope mustard, mayo, ketchup, pickle relish, and horse radish is good enough.

06 Jun 2010 1:15 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

Paula Higgins

   I'm taking your advice and throwing some salsa into the condiments deal for Ted. I love anyone that rescues horses or has a retirement farm so I won't say anything bad about soccer. Thank you Michele Akers. She is a hero as are all of those who rescue horses or give them a good home after their careers are over.

06 Jun 2010 1:35 AM
Gary Lynn

"Too bad they couldn't control the wind"...dredneigh. A sliver of insight, jinx. This is the real world. Conditions...can you recite them for all Belmonts? Do you challenge the Lord. Every day is a new day , with different variables. Your rules, if you believe them, are stuck in your obsesive compulsive mind warp.

The lover of the PERFECT  track. GEt "cleaner" and you'll live in a vaumm only.

06 Jun 2010 1:57 AM
Gary Lynn

Anyone that thinks that Drosselmeyer will not win big again is a fool.

06 Jun 2010 1:58 AM
Gary Lynn

A toast to Derby Dream...way to look past D's last race! I jumped ship.

06 Jun 2010 2:04 AM
jayjay

Rechelle : According to Zito, IceBox was never comfortable in the detention barn.  The heat certainly didn't help.  I think IceBox is as good as people thought he was.  I would put a line on this race.  I think he's as every bit as good as any of the 3 yr old crop this year.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if different colts wins the rest of the 3 yr old races this year.  I believe that would be a first, don't know if that has ever happened.

Sam : Thanks for the updates on the races at UK this year, looks like Workforce will be one of the representatives for this year's classic ?

06 Jun 2010 2:41 AM
GunBow

Interesting note that the time for the Whittingham was 1:59.45 and the time for the Manhattan 1:59.46

06 Jun 2010 3:34 AM
GunBow

It wasn't just that the track was deep.  Drossy's Belmont Beyer is 94.  Ouch.

06 Jun 2010 3:35 AM
JerseyBoy

There is nothing more certain to bring out the darker side in some people than losing money. As an immigrant my sympathy goes out to those who are competent in only one language.

06 Jun 2010 6:44 AM
sodapopkid

Dray,  Jason is right.   You always have an excuse to your horse's loss. They are tiresome,this is horseracing, horses are not machines they are animals,  A mile and a half track aint no easy task for any horse.

Tell me Mike Smith aint a damn good jock,   Yes,  My money is on him and Zenyatta in the BCC............

By the way Jason,  Did you win good this time on the Belmont??

If not dont feel bad, I think Drosselmyer upset alot of people with his unexpected win........

06 Jun 2010 7:17 AM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

So when is the Haskell Invitational?

06 Jun 2010 7:43 AM
Jon

Why is it that the Triple Crown TV coverage/commentators now rarely (and, if at all, as an afterthought only) mention each horse's pedigree?  At least during the post parade, as each horse appeared on screen and is "introduced" it could be shown.  That was always a staple at one time during those races.  Now we're simply not told.  The comentators/analysts mention the owner of each horse, however, sometimes in great detail, as if who that is will have some bearing on how the horse can/will run.  Is it too much to ask for the coverage to go into a little background of the horse or at least print on screen the horses sire/dam???

06 Jun 2010 7:48 AM
longwaytomay

Draynay,

You have cried and moaned about the synthetic surfaces for the last two years and touted the great race tracks in the east that have real dirt. Now you are blaming the surface at your beloved Belmont for the loss of your pick to win the race. Jason is correct when he said your act is getting tired. I dismissed Dross because of the foot issues. I was wrong. There you go Dray, I admitted I was wrong and I will live to bet another day. It was not that hard to do and I think you should give it a try.

06 Jun 2010 8:03 AM
mr pibb

Another GREAT DAY!! First I hit the $217 exacta in th 1st at Belmont, a $173 tri at CBY, the the BIG one with Champagne D'oro coming through and Winchester (who would let him go at 21/1?) to key my $1 pick 3 worth $6425,50, then Dross giving me $1500+ with my double bet from the day before.

To make the day even better MR BS the dreadnay was WRONG again as per usual!!

06 Jun 2010 8:26 AM
the derby dream

Very exciting Belmont, Winstar has it going on and that is fantastic. They put a ton of money in the game and employ a lot of folks in the bluegrass. Was able to cash a very good ticket including the tri. Would have loved to have hit pick 6 but no Champagne or Winchester. Wed. has great carryover.

06 Jun 2010 8:30 AM
Slew

Wha happened???  I still find the Belmont confusing.  Happy for Mike Smith and Bill Mott.  The only person I know who stayed with Drosselmeyer through the Spring was Lafit Pincay 3 on HRTV.  I thought he was nuts.  I should have paid attention.  Stately Victor was terribly disappointing coming in 8th.  But I am totally impressed by the stamina of First Dude who ran so impressively in the Preakness, and came back 3 weeks later to still finish in the $$ in the Belmont.  What a colt!  I think he'll be the breakout star of the summer. At least the rest of the card bolstered my spirits.

06 Jun 2010 8:47 AM
Greg J.

     Well, What a GREAT day of racing!  While I only hit one wager ALL DAY, UGH!  It was still an amazing day at the track!  Congrats to Mike Smith for finally getting his Victory in The Belmont, Couldn't of happened to a more deserving man(Wonder how Kent D. is feeling this morning?, lol).  Of course, Congrats to Winstar and Mr. Mott...

     I still don't believe Expansion beat out Take the Points for third, I want to see the picture!  Ruined my trifecta, Did hit the Exacta(Only win all day!) with Gio and Winchester...

     Finally, Dray, It really is sad that you can NEVER admit when you are wrong(Which is almost always), But, I wouldn't expect anything more from a character like you...

One more thing, To anyone that had Drosselmeyer winning, Bravo, Well done !!!

06 Jun 2010 9:38 AM
Greg J.

Here is a great replay of the race in High Def(At the 1:17 mark, You can see where Uptowncharlybrown loses his weights!  He is in fourth place on the rail, look carefully):

www.youtube.com/watch

06 Jun 2010 10:01 AM
Don from Delaware

Well my Ice Box pick was negated by my Fly Down exacta box with all, so got the exacta...and looking back I have a few comments that I noticed looking at the program this morning...Ice Box did not have a work over the Belmont track? At Saratoga, why Nick? So it was hot, he was hot and did not handle the track at Belmont, should have trained there, period.

Now the winner, look at his works, bingo, over the Belmont track. Even with supefectas at 10 cents per match, without Ice box, did not cash on any.....but did remain aflot with a nice pick 3 ala Champagne....#12. Winslow Homer is back at DP and training super. Don

06 Jun 2010 10:07 AM
Footlick

mz- brilliant win by Lope de Vega!  I'm happy for Fabre as Godolphin let him develop horses and then took them away.  Great win for him.  And he doesn't run in the Prix Jockey Club too often.

06 Jun 2010 10:33 AM
Sam Not Spam

Yeah baby!  Hope you all took heed of my one (only) good tip of the week, Lope de Vega in the French Derby!  14-1 here, sweet!

06 Jun 2010 11:13 AM
cat thief

Congrats to oldtimer and runfast159, who I hope boxed his first dude, flydown, drosselmeyer "in that order" prediction.

06 Jun 2010 11:27 AM
Pam S.

Congratulations to Drosselmeyer and the connections (esp. Mike Smith, very good day).  Another lightly regarded horse wins the Belmont.  It's a strange race.  It seemed like they were going so slow, First Dude's gait didn't even look a run at all but kind of a casual lope.  Didn't look good for Ice Box and Make Music for Me, they had too much to do and didn't feel like doing it.

I agree with Rechelle, I have never heard of weight falling out of a saddle.  Poor Charly! And his connections were featured so prominently on the telecast!  The horse is probably commiserating with LAL right now over Bloody Marys.

Speaking of libations, what about Champagne d'Oro.  How did she DO that?

06 Jun 2010 11:28 AM
Dr Drunkinbum

Ted from LA

   I can get you close to that Manhattan condo. The salsa we're sending you is made in New York City !!!!!!!!!

06 Jun 2010 11:28 AM
Trebloc

Glad the TC is over.  Picked SS in the Derby other then that I just made donations to the cause. Congrats to Winstar! Going to sit back enjoy the World Cup, then get geared back up.....

06 Jun 2010 12:12 PM
Matthew W

Cali horses on that deep track was tough--Tanda was the exception--should have won the Acorn from that rail post...had the two/three horses but not that winner in the Belmont--called him a plodder...but it was a plodder's race...

06 Jun 2010 12:28 PM
Paula Higgins

Thanks Dr Drunkinbum, you are a sweetheart!!!!!!! You are right, anyone that rescues horses is a wonderful person.

JayJay, ITA with everything you said. Right now, Zenny's only comeptition is QR. Mr. Jackson may be trying to pick a softer race for Rachel this time out. I don't blame him and think that is wise. I also agree they are going for 17 wins and then after that they will come east for the boys. You are so right, Zenny does not need Horse of the Year. It's superfluous and not even relevant to the discussion anymore.

06 Jun 2010 2:42 PM
Rechelle

Pam S, it just makes me very suspicious about that weight falling out. I've never heard of it coming out "accidentally" at any point during the race.  I hope that it truly was an accident.

Matthew, for the Acorn, give Champagne D'Oro some credit, she ran her race, went wire to wire and held off the favorite.  She has the pedigree to be a great runner and may finally be improving to show that she is.  If people want to put a line through Ice Box's race yesterday (I'm not one of them), then a line needs to be drawn through Champagne's Kentucky Oaks race.  

I really am looking forward to the summer 3yo races, I think that Drosselmeyer, First Dude, Super Saver & Game On Dude are all going to improve greatly.  I also think, though, that Drosselmeyer is going to prove that his best distance will be a mile and a half or longer.  Drosselmeyer has improved in every race this season, so he's peaking at the right time.

06 Jun 2010 3:03 PM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

longwayinmay, I thought I was wrong once in 89 turns out I wasn't.  

06 Jun 2010 3:17 PM
Ted from LA

"Ted from LA. I took your advice and I'm going to be able to get you your condiments. I hope mustard, mayo, ketchup, pickle relish, and horse radish is good enough."

Well played amigo.  Very well played.  Does anyone else get the blues after the triple crown season?  Ted from LA does.  Ted from LA also like to refer to himself in the 3rd person occasionally and for no reason.  Who do you like in the Derby for next year?  If any of you are extremely wealthy and need a partner (silent and with no money) in a 2 year-old in training, please let Ted from LA know.  We'll look great together in the winner's circle at Churchill on May 7th.  Ted from LA will break his silence at that point.  Dr. D, I will need you there to carry all my stuff.  Dress up.

06 Jun 2010 3:20 PM
Pedigree Shelly

          Yes , I'm kinda glad the TC races are over too ! I was really dissapointed with Ice Box's performance ! He showed nothing at all ! I should have listened to my 90 yr old Grandpa (former owner),he liked Dross ! It was too late ,I had already placed my bets :(

06 Jun 2010 3:29 PM
Love Those Dudes

C'mon folks, that race was exciting to the very end.

My congratulations to Drosselmeyer, Bill Mott, Mike Smith and to all the connections.

Job well done.

Hope they're all feeling perky and eating well today.  You did us proud, fellas.  All of you!  Thanks!  Enjoyed the whole day in front of the TV ... fun race day!

06 Jun 2010 3:32 PM
CV

Rechelle and Pam,

I've never heard of weights falling off either, but I'm quite sure it was an accident because the discrepancy would immediately be found out when jockeys came back to weigh in after the race.

Thank God Uptowncharlybrown didn't get hurt when it fell and no other horse stepped on the weight and injured himself either.

06 Jun 2010 3:39 PM
Derby Linda

Couldnt agree with you more, Jon, on your comment that the sire/dam of the horses needs to be displayed along with the other facts during the post parade.  Also thought the questioning of one jockey by the commentator on horseback was too long.  Come on, the guy is trying to focus on the task at hand.  Finally, go back to New York, New York as the song for the Belmont.  That mini concert was horrible and scared the horses.  Go Drossy and WinStar

06 Jun 2010 3:49 PM
LAZMANNICK

Not enough good things being said about Fly Down.  1-1/2M might be a little long, but 1-1/8M and 1-1/4M won’t be and they can concentrate on these distances from here on in….. I think that this is a very average 3 year-old crop.  Apparently Drosselmeyer’s Beyer was 94.  Slow times and inconsistencies don't lie and we came within First Dude’s third place finish yesterday from having the first Triple Crown series in many, many years with nine different horses making the top three……In fact, the only thing that is consistent is that Draynay will have an excuse (I’m sure glad I didn’t bet on the three horses that Dray picked to be last, to actually finish last)……That being said, I expect LAL, Fly Down, Drosselmeyer and Jackson Bend to be near the top of the three year-old division from here on in……..Ice Box apparently has an excuse for yesterday's poor showing, a displaced palate……Look for Quality Road’s so called rating as the number one horse in the world to change quickly now that Workforce totally dominated the Epsom Derby with a track record performance in only his third career start……perhaps another Euro wonder horse in the making.  

06 Jun 2010 3:51 PM
Derby Linda

I agree with Jon about showing the sire/dam of each horse along with the other info during the post parade.  Also, tell the commentator on horseback to limit the questions asked of a jockey as he is warming up his horse before the race.  He should be focused on the task at hand.  Finally, bring back NewYork,NewYork as the Belmont song.  That mini concert was awful and scared the horses.  Cant wait for the Travers.

06 Jun 2010 3:56 PM
CV

It may not have made any difference in the place he finished, but it turns out Make Music for Me lost his left front shoe in the Belmont, according to timesunion.com.

www.timesunion.com/.../story.asp

06 Jun 2010 3:56 PM
mz

Footlick: For once, we wuz right! about Lope de Vega.  You also did pretty good with Planteur but Ice Blue didn't do so badly for someone with only his 3rd start or something.

Too bad we live in N. Am.  I don't know about you but NO BODY I picked hit the board in ANY of the TC races.  

Maybe we should move?  I could live in Paris.  I looooovvve Paris.

Hey Dr. Drunketc.: if you hit the next big one, besides getting Ted his condiments, can you send me and Footlick to another continent?

06 Jun 2010 4:02 PM
Ted from LA

Pedigree Shelly,

Always listen to what any 90 year-old tells you.  Wisdom.  I am 94, and I find not many youngsters or whippersnappers listen to me anymore.  Billy Mott and Mike Smith are two of the best in the game.  I was surprised to learn it was Mott's first triple crown win.  We should all get together and buy a two-year-old.  Jason can hold the money.  I know he is from the east coast, but somehow I trust him.  I'll put up $3000.  If many of us do that, we could get a good 2 year-old.  We need to open an LLC... Triple Crown Talk.  I will be our spokesperson.  When we win the Derby, I will do all the talking and when they cut the microphone, I'll pass it to Dr. Drunkinbum.  This is going to be great.  Are you all in?  If you're broke, we will still let you in on our investment, but you have to buy the beers in Louisville.  For the first time since I started posting here 9 years ago (has it really been that long?), I am serious.  I want a Toccet colt.

06 Jun 2010 4:02 PM
jayjay

As much as I like Drosselmeyer, I don't know if his run in the Belmont will translate to multiple wins for the rest of the year.  I give the credit to Bill Mott and Mike Smith for Dross' performance yesterday.  No excuses for the rest of the horses though, they all ran on the same track and same weather condition but I wouldn't bet on Dross to dominate the rest of the year just yet.  I don't know, maybe this last race made him think he's a monster but I would like to see another win from him.

It's easy to see it now that he has won and jump on his wagon but I doubt many actually thought he was going to win that race, I think the few that did bet on him was looking at different angles other than the horse's ability (except maybe derbydream, watched his video analysis yesterday.)  The jock change, the trainer, or just wanting to root for the owner.   Very few here have said anything about Dross getting the distance, nor has the ability to run well against that group.

I think First Dude if given some rests between races might become a contender to LAL and SuperSaver for championship, he still doesn't have a win in graded races and in the infamous words of Draynay "he's still just a maiden winner"... isn't that right ? Dray.  I wouldn't be surprised if another "surprise" horse comes up winning Jim Dandy or Haskell.

06 Jun 2010 4:17 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Tim G

   Thanks for your comments. Yes, John Wooden was a great, great man, a fabulous teacher, with many valuable words to live by. He was also a great athlete. His players and students worshipped him. Too few are anything like him.

06 Jun 2010 4:20 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Ted from LA

   I'd be honored to carry your stuff. Dress up, yikes, but I'll do it. Derby hat, bow tie. I'll even polish my shoes, and put my shirt in the dryer on the permanent press cycle. You never know, it could happen, and if not, it doesn't hurt to dream. If I get there, you're coming with me.

06 Jun 2010 4:24 PM
jayjay

Draynay, what were you wrong about in '89 ?  I have a feeling that you were actually wrong lol.

In 2010, you were wrong about IceBox in the Derby (you said "pass" on this horse).  You said First Dude is a maiden winner and does not belong in the Preakness...you were wrong.  You said Drosselmeyer should not be in any tickets, he's not a G1 horse, well...you were wrong again.  It turns out, you are wrong.

As for UCB, watch the you tube link that Greg posted, you can actually see something falling off of the saddle at around 1:13 of the video.  You can see it clearly.  You'll also it from the blimp shot.  Amazing and very thankful that none of the horses behind him stepped on the darn thing.

06 Jun 2010 4:28 PM
Karen in Texas

Greg J.---Thanks for the replay in high def. At about the 1:17 point I can see something lying on the track after Charlybrown has run past the area--is that what you are referring to? What an unfortunate occurrence for the horse and his connections! He did a credible job of running in this big race. I hope to see him again in the late summer/fall, and hope he has better luck.

06 Jun 2010 4:38 PM
CV

"Finally, bring back New York, New York as the Belmont song...."

Derby Linda

AMEN. The replacement stunk and it's always fun to watch people singing alone with "New York, New York."

06 Jun 2010 5:15 PM
merlinmerry

When the telecast had its pundits babbling on about changing the Triple Crown structure, the broadcast included Jay Privman speaking from the paddock area, backed by the statue of Secretariat.  While he was speaking, you could see a man in a wheelchair in the background, taking photos of the statue.  The man in the 'chair was Ron Turcotte. The genuises at ABC not only totally ignored him, they tightened the picture so that he slid out of camera. Way to go, ABC!  Blather on about the history of the crown and give a cold shoulder to a man who lived it!

Also, for the first time in about 75 years, Hank Goldberg actually made a smart observation.  The winner and second place horse, Drosselmeyer and Fly Down, had each had a race over Big Sandy and the third place horse, First Dude, was shipped in extra early to have additional training over the course.  Familiarity with the surface = a better chance to hit the board.

06 Jun 2010 5:47 PM
Footlick

Laz- put Lope de Vega on that Euro list too.  Fabre wasn't sure the horse would get the 10.5 furlongs, and he was easily the best in the Prix Jockey Club.  Dante form didn't hold as Cape Blanco didn't run well, but there may be an excuse.  Two dominating performances and obviously threats to Fame and Glory, as is Sarkisa.  Fabre is probably going to drop Lope de Vega back to a mile again for his next race.  We'll see.  Fabre is a great trainer.  Godolphin should have kept their horses with him.  Oh well, as the racing manager for Godolphin said, "Andre Fabre gets paid well for what we have him do for us."

I did read also that Ice Box displaced his palate.  That and his inability to handle the hot, muggy day contributed to be sure.

06 Jun 2010 5:52 PM
mz

Ted: would you take Cdn$$?

But I wanna talk too when we win...or else, everyone has to wear a Derby hat and not just the wimmenfolk.

06 Jun 2010 5:58 PM
mz

I forgot to ask everyone: what the heck is the "Empire Strikes Back" or whatever that song was that that little girl (whose parents should never have let out of the house in that get-up,  BTW) singing before the race?????  Jeeze.

06 Jun 2010 6:00 PM
Footlick

mz- Ice Blue ran well.  I guess he couldn't shake lose as early as they wanted.  His trainer said he has an amazing turn of foot.  My Aga Khan horse ran 4th.  It wouldn't have mattered what kind of run any of them had as nothing there was going to catch him.  Fabre hates the press, and I love when he says things like "I wasn't sure he would get the distance."  He said that about Cavalryman fir the Arc and he ran a bang-up third.  I go to Racing Post alot to follow the Euro racing.  Where do you get your news?

Paris and Barcelona are my two favorite cities.  I go as often as I can.

As far as my TC picks- just Lookin at Lucky and Jackson Bend in the Preakness.  But I didn't do that well  in the Oaks or Epsom Darby either.  My Oaks filly went at too strong a clip, and though I didn't think you could ignore Workforce, I picked Rewilding for Fabre.  I much prefer French racing though.  Glad another non-Euro loves European racing.

06 Jun 2010 6:03 PM
Footlick

I have to agree- that song was just bad.  But maybe I'm too old to appreciate it.

06 Jun 2010 6:04 PM
LAZMANNICK

Footlick.....Apparently Make Music For Me becamse very aggitated with the singing which might account for his poor performance.

Anyway, all kidding aside, who do you lie in the World Cup?  As usual I'll be cheering for the Brits along with the Italians, Spain and then Mexico.  LOL

06 Jun 2010 6:28 PM
Karen in Texas

I'm going to agree with those who have said that track management needs to return to "New York, New York" as the pre-Belmont song. Actually, the song "Sidewalks of New York" would be all right as well.

06 Jun 2010 6:45 PM
LDP

MZ,

I don't know of a song by that title, the only thing I know that goes by the Empire Strikes Back was the fifth, out of six, movies in the Star Wars, where Luke finds out Darth Vador is his father.

06 Jun 2010 7:22 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

I have no idea how to tell when Ted from LA is serious. Does anyone still have that table game from the 60's-"Lie Detector?"  

mz

   Me and Ted are going to  clean stalls for Baffert for three years. We're going to live in the barn, eat hay, oats, carrots, and apples, and save every penny during our tour of duty Then buy us a race horse. You can join us, or after we win The Derby we could take you to the Arc de Triumphe with us and win there.

06 Jun 2010 7:51 PM
CV

Geez, Blind Luck just lost to Switch.

The pace was crawling and it kinda looked like BL's jockey Rafael Bejarano didn't get her moving early enough. But maybe she just couldn't close well into such a slow pace.

06 Jun 2010 8:11 PM
Tim G

The song is Empire State of Mind. Somehow it's associated with JayZ. Supposedly a pitch to LeBron to come to NY. According to my 'cool' kids. According to me the song was hideous.

Laz, have you seen the commercial advertising the World Cup? It says something about the excitement and screaming and exactly 9 months later thousands of new fans come into the world screaming. Now if that isn't saying people are definitely doing other things I don't know what is. However apparently it isn't watching grass grow or paint dry. So even the FIFA people think it's boring. LOL

All of you wanting a 2yr old Derby prospect? Better get 150-250 of you at 3,000 each.  

06 Jun 2010 8:18 PM
Footlick

Laz- FC Barcelona is my favorite team, along with Cruz Azul in Mexico and Marseilles in France, So for me it will be Spain, France and Mexico.  But I always wish the USA well.  My bet against in the big teams would be England this year.  But, I've been wrong before-lol.

06 Jun 2010 8:23 PM
Footlick

mz- It is a song written by Jay-Z.  It was meandering and not sung well.  But the girl was 16 and probably very nervous.  Beyonce and Rhianna were probably smart enough to say "NO" to performing it.  But as I said, maybe I'm just too old.

06 Jun 2010 8:28 PM
2:24

Just saw the weight assignments for the Vanity.  Looks like Zenyatta will be giving 10 to 15 pounds to the two mules and one Shetland pony who she will be racing against.  Let's just hope she gets through this ridiculous race unharmed and that her connections realize it's not worthwhile to risk such a great race horse versus three inferior animals.

06 Jun 2010 8:28 PM
Lil Darlin

The song, "Empire State of Mind," was originally performed by Jay Z and Alicia Keys (performed before last year's World Series).  Then Alicia Keys just did it herself, sans rap, and its actually one of my favorite songs.  But OMG, did they butcher it at the Belmont! Where was Frank with NY, NY?!??!!?

06 Jun 2010 9:07 PM
Jason Shandler

It really is embarrassing, the Vanity. It's kind of like when they scratched Pepper's Pride that time it was raining because they didnt want to risk her record in the slop. Same thing here. Let's take the safest route to a record. Those damn mountains...

06 Jun 2010 9:16 PM
Jermon

Had Drosselmeyer to win, but was denied exacta by

Fly Down.

Culled from an article in the New York Post:

The new song replacing "New York, New York" is

"Empire State Of Mind" written by rapper Jay-Z and

recorded by Jay-Z and Alicia Keys. A teenage

recording artist by the name of Jasmine Villegas

is to sing the Keys portion. Jay-Z's lyrics contain

several four letter words and three uses of tne N-word.

The change is being made because "Empire State Of

Mind" has become a "quintessential 21st century theme

song for New York City". according to NYRA marketing

director Neema Ghazi.

What a crock!

06 Jun 2010 9:32 PM
Derby Linda

Most people know the words of My Old Ky Home and can at least hum the tune of Maryland, My Maryland, but how are they supposed to know the words of Empire State of Mind?

06 Jun 2010 9:51 PM
jayjay

CV : I don't know what Bejarano was thinking being that far back in that race.  The field was so small and I had a feeling that they were going to get away from her, I'm waiting to see what Dorf will say about his ride.

2:24 : With that weight assignment, I agree with you, it's not worth the risk.  There's nothing Team Z can do though when everyone is scared to come and face her.  She even scared the HOTY.  I would prefer to have more horses in the race and hopefully there'll be others that will enter before wednesday.  I'm really hoping that she can break the record next week so that we can see what will be in the menu for the rest of the campaign.  Nothing has been set past the Vanity, but my bet will be that she will face boys once before the Classic.

Jason : I think if you owned Zenyatta, you would most likely do the same thing given the current scenario.  If your horse has a chance to break the modern day record for consecutive wins, you'd probably pick the easiest race to try and do it.  Regardless of what the critics will say.  I know I would :)  It's easy to say "I want my horse to beat the best" but if you're this close, I'm sure it's not that easy to make that decision.

RA's connection has a similar pressure having lost a very easy 2 races this year, I'm sure they will find the easiest spot now to try and get that win.  Being the HOTY last year, it would not be acceptable for her to keep running against females, she set that bar last year, in fact, she should not be running against females at all but I'm sure they're waiting for everyone to pull out of the race and be left with mules to run against.

06 Jun 2010 9:55 PM
Jason Shandler

Jayjay: If RA doesnt go to the Foster I will be equally as critical of their connections. It's not an RA vs. Zenyatta thing. It's about the BC Classic winner racing against females--still. In a race she already won twice. C'mon.

06 Jun 2010 10:05 PM
LDP

Jayjay,

If I owned Zenyatta I would not want to leave any room for doubt. I would want her to beat the absolute best competition I could find, especially for her 17th win in a row. Taking the easy way out, and yes that is what this is, never pays off in the long run. You would think that the Mosses would've learned that after last year.

06 Jun 2010 10:09 PM
jayjay

Yeah, I see your point.  The Classic is the goal but the immediate goal is the 17th win.  The critics will say it's a cheap race to break the record and I'm sure it will be questioned over and over again and debated everytime the record is discussed.  I do believe we'll see her against the boys before the classic, as we all know she hasn't raced hard this year and she needs a tough race if she's going to beat the best of the world come November.  There's plenty of races before the Classic.      I think we'll see that big sigh of relief from Team Z after saturday, then it's fun time.

06 Jun 2010 10:21 PM
Paula Higgins

Zenyatta is not racing against "two mules and a shetland pony." You know what, in a shortened field she could lose. The dynamics are different. Let's give her one more race after the Vanity before we decide they are running from real competiton. They are looking for number 17. I don't think they should blow that once in a millenium opportunity because some people think she should race against the boys NOW. I sure don't want to see her beat the boys in her next three races and not have enough left in the tank for the Breeders Cup and then they decide not to race her. Because you know what will happen then? The east coast voters for the HOTY will say "Well, she didn't show up for the Breeders Cup and Quality Road did, so I am voting for him." I guarantee it. Not that I care, because she transcends that, but Jerry and Ann Moss might. As for Rachel, let's give her a break too. I would just like to see her race anywhere at this point and win. I want to see a happy horse again.

06 Jun 2010 10:40 PM
CV

"Just saw the weight assignments for the Vanity.  Looks like Zenyatta will be giving 10 to 15 pounds to the two mules and one Shetland pony who she will be racing against.  Let's just hope she gets through this ridiculous race unharmed and that her connections realize it's not worthwhile to risk such a great race horse versus three inferior animals."

2:24 06 Jun 2010 8:28 PM

I'm guessing you don't know about St Trinians, who spanked Life Is Sweet in the Santa Maria. St Trinians is no "Shetland pony" and I expect her to be competitive.

"It really is embarrassing, the Vanity. It's kind of like when they scratched Pepper's Pride that time it was raining because they didnt want to risk her record in the slop. Same thing here. Let's take the safest route to a record. Those damn mountains..."

jshandler 06 Jun 2010 9:16 PM

Snark must be "in" these days for writers. Do you think Martin Garcia and St Trinians are going to defer to Zenyatta and just let her win in a walkover?

06 Jun 2010 10:42 PM
thomas

Champagne Doro was the best looking horse all day i was their. and their was no excuses for first dude even dale romans admitted it.

06 Jun 2010 10:45 PM
Vic S

I will say it as I have said so many times before.  Tell me which horse has won the BCC and been undefeated, won in G1 Co. for three years, etc.  Lets not forget this horse is a mare.  Thats right only ONE HORSE in HISTORY can say this.  G1 Co. is top competition.  She has done this for 3 years, and won the BCC undefeated, carry top weight (129) when most your top weighted horses for G1's get in at about 119.  Anyone is futile when arguing this point.  They are doing whats best for the horse on her path to the BC, not what her DETRACTORS want her to do.  Everyone was mad about what they (connections) did with her last year, and come the BCC the people see her connections as heros - AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN.  Hello people, look no further than Sunday Silence in 89' he took an easier path to BCC, won and was HOTY.  HE EVEN LOST earlier in the year, something Zenyatta has NEVER DONE!!! Zenyatta is undefeated and has beaten better horses than Sunday Silence (other than Easy Goer - obviously).  Fact being, AIM SMALL MISS SMALL.  Keep your concentration do what is needed for your goal and then obtain it, do not overthink.  No matter she races in Kentucky in the Foster or California in the Vanity, you are guaranteed of weak, overmatched field no matter what the sex.  The older males are TERRIBLE, Quality Road and Rail Trip aren't going to either race - obviously.  No point in risking the horse on a race that in actuality means little compared to years ends achievements.  Athletes of any sport at the top of any game will tell you this.  If I swim in Indiana, why in the heck would I travel to lets say Kansas for the equivalent of the same competition?  Doesn't make since, you build up for the event - Mr. Sheriffs is a genius, if you go against his plan you don't know racing.  FACT.  For you Quality Road fans tell me, how many times has he won past a 1 1/8?? None.  Who has he beaten thats a G1 winner? No one, or near no one.  You east coast boys (I am globally based east coast so don't be offended) don't know fair racing in terms of achievements.  If a horse doesn't race east its a travesty to you.  Zenyatta - in California alone - in actuality traveled farther than Rachel did.  O yeah New Jersey and New York are sooooooooooo far away, keep kidding yourselves.  Keep making useless words to detract from Zenyatta but facts are facts.  Just read the first 4 sentences of this.  Rachel beat slow older hores ONCE, and beat a weak avg. group of 3 year olds.  She only beat one decent horse - Summer Bird, who at the time wasn't half the horse he was by year's end.  You can look at beyers all you want but anyone in their right mind can see that Zenyatta is the best horse in the America.  Who's beaten Zenyatta??? Thank you.  :  )

06 Jun 2010 10:50 PM
Tim G

Different song you're singing than when Joel Marr came onto the blog comments to explain WHY he scratched Pepper's Pride?

I believe they didn't want to risk PP, not her record.

She hated the slop. The time at RD, the race track washed away. I wouldn't risk one of my most valuable horses running them on a surface they hated just to set a record.

06 Jun 2010 10:52 PM
Greg J.

     A good night, Celtics spank the Lakers in L.A., Now have home court advantage, And Blackhawks one win away from the Cup, Even though it will go seven, The Hawks take the Cup soon...

     Zenyatta will win her 17th straight and an unprecedented third win in the Vanity, Her 7th straight Grade one race, Her 11th Grade one overall, Go over $6 Million in earnings, And, Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Break the record of Citation, Cigar and Mister Frisky in the process.  It will be her last appearance in California, A final chance for her loyal fans to see her, Then, She heads to New York for her next race.  Enough said...

06 Jun 2010 11:07 PM
Rechelle

CV, you may not have noticed in my previous posts on other blogs but I tend to be a bit ..... non trusting .... skeptic .... when it comes to what people will & will not do in the horse racing industry (LOL!!).  I really really do hope that it came out by accident but if I were that ownership group, after everything they've gone through this year, I would be considering a different trainer and/or jockey.  But I don't trust people at their word, especially over something that I've never heard happening before (especially in a major stakes race, where everyone handling the horse are supposed to be professionals).  But I agree, I am very glad that CharlyBrown & the rest of the horses weren't hurt by the weight in the backstretch.  Hopefully someone went out & found it before the next race.

Has anyone heard any news or updates on Devil May Care?  It seems she's the only one I haven't heard anything about since the Derby.  Is she okay?

06 Jun 2010 11:12 PM
Rechelle

jayjay, so when Zenyatta wins her 17th next weekend, do you think they'll finally start to enter her into more challenging races or continue to lightly race her to beat the record set by Peppers Pride of 19 in a row?  At what point does she start to show she deserves consideration for HOY for this season?  At some point, they've got to start to challenge Zenyatta, and ship her east, to prepare for the Breeders Cup.  I imagine that Z will be entered into the Classic again, unless something happens during the season & she falls apart (which I don't see happening, even though I think every horse should have a bad race once in their lifetime).  

Jason - I honestly think RA will enter the Foster, with her work the other day, it seems like she *might* be back to form.  I can't be critical of how long it took for her to get there, since she was off for so long and probably gained weight that she didn't need and got lazy.  I blame Asmussen more for her 2 losses than I blame RA.  No racehorse should sit in a stall or pasture for months without still being trained, even if they aren't going to race right away.  As long as they are planning on bringing the horse back to race, he/she should be in training.  Maybe give a month off, but not 5 months if they aren't injured.  I am looking forward to Rachel's race next weekend, whichever one it is.  I can't be too critical if RA's connections are a bit conservative and go against the girls, just because of how long it's taken to get her back to form.

06 Jun 2010 11:22 PM
Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND.

jayjay, First Dude is still the horse to beat.  I doubt he will ever have to deal with a pathetic track like that again.

06 Jun 2010 11:40 PM
GunBow

Can't seem to get this posted.  I'll split it into two.  Orginally tried to post about midnight Sat.

Congrats to Bill Mott.  We all know he is one of the greatest trainers ever, but now he can tell neophytes that yes, he has won a Triple Crown race.

And Mike Smith, another Hall of Famer who doesn't have a bunch of Triple Crown trophies either, has his first Belmont.

WinStar, a class organization, gets two-thirds of the Triple Crown.

As for the horses, it was a Triple Crown of redemption and jockey changes.  Super Saver runs 3rd in Tampa(in a race that has proven to be rather weak), 2nd in Arkasas(in a photo with Line of David and Dublin?) and then peaks to win the Derby and give Calvin #3 in 4 years.  In the Preakness, Baffert takes Garrett Gomez off Lookin at Lucky following a disasterous 3rd in the Santa Anita Derby(hasn't produced much either) and an even more disasterous 6th at Churchill, and replaces him with the inexperienced Martin Garcia who promptly rides Lookin at Lucky to a Preakness victory.  And today, Drosselmeyer, early in the year one of the main hype horses who had lost almost all support after a string of mediocre performances under Kent Desormeaux, wins the Belmont first time under Mike Smith.

Drosselmeyer's Belmont was a triumph of mediocrity and plodding.  Yes, the Belmont surface was playing slow, but the final time of 2:31 and 2 is pokey regardless. Ultimately, in a field with few horses capable of running 12 furlongs, Drosselmeyer, with his stamina, was simply able to one-pace his way to victory.

Fly Down ran ok to finish 2nd, but I was surprised to see him having to close from as far back as he did.  First Dude became the only horse this year to place in more than one of the Triple Crown races; so he deserves respect.  However, he had no excuse not to win today.  He couldn't ask for better than 1:14 for the first 6 furlongs and 1:40 for the mile.  Game on Dude suprised me by hanging around so long and getting 4th.  What a spring it has been for Martin Garcia!

As it concerns Ice Box, it appears Zito took to heart the talk that a deep closer cannot win the Belmont, because Ice Box was positioned midpack early.  From that spot, though, he just never made a run.  In retrospect, Ice Box did have perfect pace setups in both the Florida and Kentucky Derbys, and like most closers(save Zenyatta) he appears dependent on pace and simply not good enough to "make his own race".  In the end, this Triple Crown never did produce a breakout star.

The undercard races from Belmont were fantastic.  The first 3 were formful, with class prevailing.  First, it was the best sophomore sprinter, D'Funnybone, winning his 5th gr.2 race in the Woody Stephens.  Then, the Bill Mott trained Proviso, coming off a gr.1 win over the males at Santa Anita, ran back to that performance to win the gr.1 Just a Game by a measured half length over the rapidly improving Phola.  If not for a disputed disqualification in the Spinster, Proviso would have 3 gr.1 wins in 5 North American starts(was also 2nd and 4th in gr.1s).  The only gr.1 winner in the True North, 09' Met Mile winner Bribon, put in a striking late run to win and signal his presence as a force in the sprinting ranks.

Then, form went out the window.  Champagne d' Oro was thought well enough of to have been entered against Lookin at Lucky in the gr.1 Del Mar Futurity.  However, after bombing in that race and then her two biggest races, the Breeder's Cup Juvenile Fillies and Kentucky Oaks, most believed she was outclassed in the Acorn.  However, after a solid opening half, Martin Garcia was able to slow things up on Champagne d'Oro, with a 3rd quarter in :25 and 1 for 6 furlongs in 1:12.  And while Amen Hallelujah and Tanda did make decent late runs, they weren't exactly setting the track on fire, as the final quarter took :25 and 2.  The breather Garcia had given Champagne d'Oro proved decisive, and they held off the other two for the gr. 1 win.  What a shock, a Medlagia d'Oro filly wins a big race.

The gr.1 Manhattan had an excellent field and it turned out to be a fantastic race.  Gio Ponti ran a winning race, but once again he had to settle for a minor placing.  You would have to think there's another gr.1 out there with his name on it.  The line that went through my head after Winchester crossed the wire first was Trevor Denman's call from the 96' Pacific Classic when Dare and Go upset Cigar, and that is "you can never underestimate a class horse, and this is one class horse on his day".

Having been at Arlington when Winchester romped in the 2008 gr.1 Secretariat by over 7, I had waited for the last 2 years for him to duplicate that effort and win another big race.  Yet, after almost 2 years of disappointment, I had concluded that Winchester just simply wasn't as good as I once thought.  This is not to say Winchester had been running poorly, because he had been piling up placings in gr.2 and 3 stakes.  However, he hadn't shown himself to be a serious contender in a gr.1.  Much like Drosslemeyer an hour later, Winchester made today the day to clearly prove himself a gr.1 horse.

06 Jun 2010 11:47 PM
tcc

To Pedigree Shelly:

Some Quote's

First Dude puts in one of the best all time losing efforts in Preakness history and now has to face a average group and you don't think he is the winner?  He is the only real speed in the race and you don't think he is the winner?  He has Ramon D. on board and you don't think he is the winner? He has the longest stride in the race and you don't think he is the winner? Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND. 04 Jun 2010 12:01 PM

Like I said jayjay I believe First Dude will win but I like to dream and Uptown edging him at the wire with Stately Victor and Ice Box following behind gives me a ticket worth 15k or more so why not.  I have spoken.

Draynay 03 Jun 2010 10:13 PM

Drosselmeyer, Interactif, and Dixie are going to battle for last place there is no reason to have any of these horses on your ticket they are not G1 horses and do not belong in the race.  I have spoken.

Draynay aka handicapping LEGEND. 04 Jun 2010 6:32 PM

Anyways my picks still haven't changed , going with the AP Indy grandsons , Ice Box, First Dude , and Fly Down . Longshot bet , Stately Victor . I hope J. Lezcano can keep Ice Box closer to the pace ! I don't want to see him 20 lengths behind turning for home !

Pedigree Shelly 04 Jun 2010 3:20 PM

At least one of the horses you liked (Fly Down) finished 2nd, ahead of First Dude, the AKA Legend's proclaimed winner, also one of the horse's that was to battle for last place seemed to have finised ahead that proclaimed winner.

07 Jun 2010 12:07 AM
Jason Shandler

Tim: how do you know she hated the slop? She never raced over it.

07 Jun 2010 12:09 AM
GunBow

I thought the Hollywood Oaks could be a trap race for Blind Luck, and it was.  With the solid Cal bred Camile C setting ridiculously slow fractions of :25 and 1, :50, and 1:14 and 2, Blind Luck and her late running tactics were up against it(this is not Pro-Ride-in 35 races at 8.5 furlongs on the Cushion Track, frontrunners and pace pushers have won 28 of them).

Blind Luck tried like she always does, but her plight today only reminds us how difficult it is for late runners to win consistently.  Even superior closers like Forego were often at the mercy of pace.  And as when Blind Luck's late run came up short in the Santa Anita Oaks, the Hollywood Oaks confirms my amazement of what Zenyatta has been able to do. Forget whether you think the Vanity is a weak move by her connection for a second and recognize just how miraculous, and it is miraculous, that a late runner has been able to win all 16 career races.  Blind Luck's plight today is proof of how amazing Zenyatta has been.

I don't want to take too much away from Switch.  This is a nice daughter of Quiet American, and she has a really great personality.  Switch is just so lively and inquisitive, and physically is tall and atheletic.  She had been threatening to be a good one, running a close 3rd in the gr.1 Las Virgenes and finishing a closing 2nd in the recent Railbird Stakes behind Tanda(next-out 3rd in the gr.1 Acorn) and ahead of 3rd place finisher All Due Respect(who won an 8.5 furlong allowance earlier in the day in a time 2 full seconds faster than the Hollywood Oaks).  Today, Switch rated very kindly, demonstrating a new dimension, before tackling Camile C and getting the jump on Blind Luck.

However, it's hard to put much stock in a race that really was phoney from the very beginning.  As mentioned, the final time for the Hollywood Oaks was 2 seconds slower than what All Due Respect(2nd in the Santa Anita Oaks) ran in the 2nd race.  Blind Luck, who has lost 2 races this year when having to close into snail paces on synthetic, also just barely won the gr.1 Las Virgenes when she got up in the very last stride after facing a very slow early pace.

Unlike some of the other great 3 year old fillies of the past, fillies who were able to dominate races with their great speed, Blind Luck is depedent on pace in order to run her best.  This will always leave her vulnerable.  However, she is such a consistent and hard-trying filly, and she does pack one heck of a stretch punch.  Against all odds, she came with an amazing late run and almost got up, making up about 6 lengths into a final sixteenth in 6 seconds flat.  

With no major main track races in California for 3 year old fillies the rest of the year, Hollendorfer plans to take Blind Luck East for a summer and fall campaign.  Blind Luck is 3 for 3 on dirt, and has enjoyed the quicker early paces she has experienced on that surface.  Hopefully, the long and winding campaign will not be too demanding, because Blind Luck is not a big filly and does not carry alot of flesh.

On a final note, Chocolate Candy ran out of the money in an 8.5 furlong turf allowance race earlier on the Hollywood card.  With Pioneer of the Nile retired, the only horse of consequence from the 09' Santa Anita Derby still running is Take the Points, and he's running on turf.  Mr Hot Stuff and Chocolate Candy simply have not improved from early in their 3 year old seasons, and have been major disappointments.  Last year's Derby was a long time ago.

07 Jun 2010 12:17 AM
LAZMANNICK

It seems strange that Zenyatta has to cartry 129 lbs. in the Vanity when the so-called best horse on the planet got in for a paltry 124 lbs. against a fairly mediocre field in the Met Mile.  Zen gets villified for racing against maybe the second best filly/mare (behind her) in N/A right now and Quality Road gets praise when he sticks to his comfort zone and barely beats horses that can't even win a G-1 route race.

07 Jun 2010 12:32 AM
Kat

Jason - Just wanted to comment on Christine's performance in the Red Cross.  I'm not sure what she beat, but after being checked so hard on the rail and taken to the outside and closing hard, she ran a very impressive second.  And it took them a while to ascertain it was second and not first!  I thought she had the headbob.

07 Jun 2010 12:42 AM
jayjay

I'm so used to the double standard when it comes to Zenyatta.  It's pretty clear what their goals are but yet we still see people complain about it.  No one complained about QR's easy path to the Classic, avoiding the west coast.

LDP : If Zenyatta doesn't run in the Vanity, I can bet you that race will have the best female horses in the west and maybe some from the east because IT IS a prestigious race.  You see it as being the easy way out only because no one wants to run against her.  If she flies east now, horses won't enter the races either so what's the point?  You automatically assume that the horses that QR beats up on will enter a race against Zen, none of those horses would be willing to be embarrassed by another female horse.  None of them would enter against this mare, period.  So stop knockin the race and enjoy it instead.  You certainly sounded like a Jess Jackson with that comment, "Forget the horse's well being, let's run her against the toughest races out there so that people will remember her and I'll have a trophy to remind me of her racing days."

CV / Paula : I didn't want to mention the fact that it was a short field.  That really worries me too and I didn't want to jinx it by saying something.  I think St. Trinians is better than Hystericalady, whom Z faced in the 2008 Lady's Secret and where there were only 3 other horses.  She was much closer in that race so I'm hoping that Mike will run that same race, only difference is that she's carrying more weight this year than that year.

GO ZENYATTA, let's break that record!!

07 Jun 2010 12:45 AM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

It seems to me she beat the absolute best competition she could find in what was supposed to be her final lifetime race last year.  As most of you detractors seem to forget she put it on the line in a race that our so called HOY didn't show up for.  Oh I forgot, our so called HOY was tired.  Or was it she didn't want to jeopardize her reputation against the best competition.

07 Jun 2010 12:46 AM
GunBow

Here's my take on Moss and Sherriffs and their decision to run Zenyatta in the Vanity.

The one thing I will say in defense of Moss and Sherriffs is that their schedule for Zenyatta was royally screwed when Jess Jackson pulled Rachel from the Apple Blossom.

I truly believe that at the top of the list of reasons for bringing Zenyatta back was beating Rachel.  Moss in particular really wanted to beat Rachel and Jackson.  My guess is that after the Apple Blossom was agreed upon, Moss and Sherriffs really didn't have definite plans for Zenyatta.  The Apple Blossom dominated their horizon; I truly don't think they were thinking much past it.  If you remember, Jess Jackson was worried that had he allowed Rachel to run in the Apple Blossom and Zenyatta beat her, Moss would have retired her right then and there.

Once Rachel was pulled about 3 weeks before the Apple Blossom, Moss and Sherriffs were stuck.  Oaklawn absolutely needed Moss and Sherriffs to stick to their commitments, and the two graciously did.  On this blog, some have criticized Moss and Sherriffs, after the fact, for running in "just the Apple Blossom" and not in the Dubai World Cup or a race against males.  However, had Moss and Sherriffs pulled Zenyatta from the Apple Blossom, what was already a tough situtation for Oaklawn would have been a complete disaster.  Because Zenyatta ran, Oaklawn was still able to enjoy a huge Apple Blossom day.

Imagine how different Moss and Sherriff's position would be had Rachel run in the Apple Blossom and Zenyatta beaten her.  How long would the glow have lasted?  Moss and Sherriffs would have been able to bask in this victory, and been able to deflect pressure to run in Race X or Race Y.  A victory over Rachel, and Moss and Sherriffs were VERY confident in late March of beating Rachel, would have insulated Team Zenyatta from much of the criticism they are now receiving.  Having conquered her main rival, the general public and even Zenyatta's critics would have given Moss and Sherriffs more time to prepare for Act 2 of Zenyatta's 2010.  

However, becuase Jackson basically punked out, Sherriffs and Moss are under alot more heat than they probably anticpated being under back in March. Instead of being grateful that Sherriffs and Moss kept their commitment to Oaklawn and prevented an economic blackeye, many simply looked at the Apple Blossom as yet another example of Zenyatta racing against overmatched females(forgetting that it was Jess Jackson's fault that the "Race of the Century" didn't occur).  Within a month of the Apple Blossom, people were already demanding Zenyatta "come East", "run on dirt", "face males", and specifically "face Quality Road".

In effect, Moss and Sherriffs received little good will for coming East to Arkansas and running on dirt because of something (Jackson pulling Rachel) they had no control over. When Moss and Sherriffs brought Zenyatta back, they probably envisioned that by June they would have a victory over Rachel and a ton of goodwill, as well as recognition as the undisputed #1 Horse in North America.  Instead, the Rachel matchup was taken away from them, and Zenyatta was deprived of the win that would have hopefully silenced most of her critics.  

Thus, after almost half the year, Team Zenyatta found themselves in a position they undoubtedly hoped they wouldn't be in.  Moss and Sherriffs had brought back Zenyatta to defeat Rachel and silence critics.  Rachel had slipped from their grasp and it didn't take long for the critics to start demanding more.  Moss and Sherrifs found themselves in a  position unable to please a sizeable number of critics.  

With their plans having fallen through, I really think Moss and Sherriffs just didn't know what to do.  In a position they didn't expect to be in, they have resorted to their typical philosophy(in managing Zenyatta), conservatism.  

Owning a victory over Rachel, the demand for Zenyatta would have been alot lighter than they are now.  That's why I'm sure Moss and Sherriffs were stung by Rachel being pulled from the Apple Blossom.  Now, instead of being asked to defeat Rachel, Zenyatta's critics are demainding the big filly run 3 or 4 times on the East, of course on dirt, and against gr.1 males.  Moss and Sherriffs were never prepared to do this.  

It seems to me that Moss and Sherriffs have been slow or unable to adjust to the reality of 2010, that Zenyatta doesn't have that defininitive Apple Blossom victory.  Yes, she won the race, but many view it has rather hollow.  These people, along with others, were hoping that in the absence of a showdown with Rachel, Moss and Sherriffs would be eager to accept new challenges, and quickly try to accomplish what a victory over Rachel would have-total legitimacy.

Instead, it appears that Moss and Sherriffs are either overly satisfied with the Apple Blossom win, or simply didn't have clear plans for the post-Apple Blossom campaign.  As such, they have reverted back to what they did in 2008 and 2009.  

Clearly, the extincts of Moss and Sherriffs are to take it fairly easy with Zenyatta.  For them, running Zenyatta in the Breeder's Cup Classic was a HUGE stretch, a HUGE risk, and was acting WAY outside the box.  In the end, they seem more concerned with keeping Zenyatta healthy and maintaining her streak than with making history every month.  

Given the Apple Blossom field was not strong and that the race was so easy, I would have thought Team Zenyatta would have given more thought to running in the Stephen Foster.  And if not the Foster, maybe the Hollywood Gold Cup.  Instead, we get the Vanity, for a 3rd year.  The decision of the Vanity is totalling in keeping with the typical conservatism of Moss and Sherriffs.  

However at this point in her career, it really does feel like Zenyatta is beyond running in the Vanity.  Yes, she will have to carry weight, and with St. Trinians she will be meeting a legit gr.1 mare.  But still, the Vanity?

In my opinion, the choice of the Vanity is directly tied to the failed matchup with Rachel in the Apple Blossom.  Without that marquee win, Team Zenyatta is in unexpected territory, and have simply reverted to their standard operating procedures.    

07 Jun 2010 1:18 AM
jayjay

Rechelle : First for all, you can stop pretending like you care about Zenyatta :)  I've seen your previous posts and none of it suggest you care.  Anyway, in my previous post to LDP (and it seems Vic S. beat me to it), you people assume that horses would be willing to run against Zenyatta when she flies east to race.  The competition over there will not enter a race with her, that was proven in the Apple Blossom.  So what's the point of going over there, just so she can have in her resume "Beat older male horses that have not won any graded stakes"....I mean seriously...it's ridiculous.  I've said it before, the Classic is where the best of the best will come together to determine the championship for east coast HOTY (Zenyatta will never win that honor.)

Oh and since you brought up RA in the same comment to me, how come it's okay to you that RA's connection be conservative about her next race ?  They were the ones that set that high bar of beating "males" last year, but now it's okay for her to keep racing females.  Isn't that hypocrisy when you're asking Team Z to ship Zenyatta to face the boys ?  See, I think RA should stick with the females, because she risks injuring herself trying to win ONE race, I care for RA's well being even though I don't like her.  I don't want her breaking down because her owners wants to see her win a race.  I think she should race allowance winners if she can, just to get that win confidence back.  I'm not scared of her facing Zenyatta in the Classic, but I want her in her best form if she's going to run, no excuses.

07 Jun 2010 1:21 AM
GunBow

Did want to mention that Blind Luck carried 10 lbs more than Switch in the Hollywood Oaks.  Giving weight and pace?  Not the recipe for victory.

07 Jun 2010 2:00 AM
GunBow

I mentioned All Due Respect(3 year old filly) won an allowance race in a time 2 seconds faster than the Hollywood Oaks.  She won the allowance race by over 10, wire to wire.  

07 Jun 2010 2:01 AM
Sam Not Spam

Jayjay (and others), Workforce is a big, heavy horse and now he's hit form, I can't see them giving him the break he'd need to be competitive at the BC; he'll probably be in our summer races like the Eclipse/King George.  This is why I keep touting the French horses, the good ones take a midsummer break and come back fresh and strong in the Autumn.

07 Jun 2010 2:39 AM
Assault

Rechelle,

...and then you woke up, right?

07 Jun 2010 3:05 AM
Footlick

Jason- they do work horses in slop, so maybe they could tell that way.

07 Jun 2010 7:41 AM
Draynay

Drossel is going to the Travers ? Lol. I think the Vegas odds of him hitting the board are 10 to 1 against! Zenyatta gets the same weight as last year???  In my opinion California racing has turned itself into a complete joke.  How can you give Z the same weight as last year ?  I hope they run a 52 second half mile.

07 Jun 2010 7:45 AM
sodapopkid

Vic S:  

You are 100% correct.  I agree, St.Trinninans is no shetland pony either.  

07 Jun 2010 8:29 AM
slyder

Mr Pibb you should give daynay some lessons on how to handicap. Nice job on the day!!

Was nice to meet you at lil ole Canterbury Park. I guess I should have been looking over your shoulder and betting along side you all day. Thanks for the huge tip on Winchester, I owe you a few beers!! Looking forward to seeing you again on Travers Day if not before.

What a pathetic race in terms of running time this Belmont was. They tried as hard as they could to hand the race to First Dude letting him do the baby crawl through some of the slowest fractions I've ever seen in a G1 race. 1:14.8 6f, and a 1:40.2 mile? Deep track or not the race was his to win if he was good enough.

draynay,

You are so wrong all the time unless you go for the favorite or second choice and they come through. Give it up, nobody here pays attention to your sorry "advice" anyway. If anything they run from your picks. Come to think of it that may help more than you'll ever know. Now you want to blame the track for your ignorance in handicapping? I see you stated that speed was getting killed all day because of the deep track. If you were any kind of a handicapper (even a novice much less a "legend")and you truly believed this you would have made note of that and bet against First Dude. That's how I made my money on Saturday.

Well Jason I guess the blog is going back to the bash Zenyatta thing now that the Triple Crown races are over huh? Why the heck don't they send RA to the Vanity? There's plenty of room for criticism there as well unless one feels she deserves "excuses" for some reason.  

07 Jun 2010 8:50 AM
Billy's Empire

I just got a hunch, Tim G is such a great capper that he suddenly win's after the race is over. Must be nice living in a wonderland where you hit trifecta's after the fact and you even got a chance to talk to P.P connections and know she hated the slop! At least the rest of us stick to our bets. WOHS!!

07 Jun 2010 9:00 AM
berttheclock

Thomas is correct in saying how Champagne D'Oro looked.  Eric Guillot is too be congratulated for his fine work in bringing her up to this race.  As Gun Bow wrote, Martin Garcia rode her perfectly.

However, due to circumstances, my wife and I were not able to get out to Portland Meadows for the races.  We came home as the the post parade began for the Acorn.  I kept telling my wife how great the Number 12 looked, so, we concentrated on her coming out of the gate.  At the 1/16th pole, I started to become ill as I realized I didn't have a dime on her lovely back.

However, following that my wife kept telling me how marvelous the Number 7 looked in the PP of the feature.  She has a Masters from Mills and taught modern dance for years at the college level.  Yeah, I replied, it is that old Ballet thingee, eh?  She kept asking me to look more closely at Drosselmeyer and we, finally, agreed, he was the one.  Again, not a dime on him, but, we cheered him on with gusto.

Afterwards, I told her of how much we had missed by not being at the track.  But, as she retires next year, we will be rail birds on the Kentucky circuit, cheering and betting on the looks.

Something to be taken from Coach Wooden is his philosophy, akin to that of Tom Landry, of never getting too high after a win or too low after any loss.  Or, as a very sage fellow race player once kept pounding into my thick skull on the So Cal circuit, "You drink Champagne, if you win; you drink Champagne, if you lose".  Better days ahead for all.

07 Jun 2010 9:08 AM
Rachel

2:24 Your disrespect for a lesser talented race horse, who can't be blamed for merely inheriting the genetics given them, but who will still run their heart out, is one of the things I dislike most while reading blogs.

07 Jun 2010 9:55 AM
Slew

I have to say, I do agree with Derby Linda about wishing for bloodline info in the post parade.  And that was the

god-awfullest song I've ever heard in anticipation of the Belmont, and was poorly sung to boot.  It was a snub to the real fans at the track who were unable to sing along to a traditional New York, New York.  Thumbs down to Belmont for that travesty.

The Belmont itself was plodding, and I believe the break-out colt for the summer will be First Dude.  He put 2 sensational races back to back, set the pace, and deserves a mint and a sip of Guiness.  Next time out...he wins.

07 Jun 2010 9:57 AM
Billy's Empire

Tim G, You are a joke. The biggest joke of all, is thru this entire blog, you spouted off, made your little jabs and comments, and never ONCE made a pick for the Belmont. Not once! Go back and read the blog. You sure like to ridicule and make fun of other's picks, but never offer any of your own. Why is that bud? You talk all of this mess, but give us nothing, nada. I called you out before but was always too busy to go back and look, but now everyone can see the fraud as Tim G. Way to win after the race is over. The title of the Blog, was Belmont 142 Picks, not Lil Tim's Soapbox... SAD

07 Jun 2010 10:09 AM
Love Those Dudes

No one mentioned the fact that Drosselmeyer was born on April Fools' Day, did they?  

Think Zenyatta! Another one of those lovable April Fools' foals.  

Now it's Zenyatta's turn to wow the racing fans with her 17th straight win on Sunday.  Cheers!

07 Jun 2010 10:48 AM
Billy's Empire

Jason, you said in your live blog that Drosselmeyer was likely to beat you after you touted him all year? What's up with all of the second guessing my man? Too bad about C Daae and Gio. Second ain't bad... Your locks got locked down.

On to the Foster. You going?

07 Jun 2010 11:33 AM
Phony JJ

RA's connection has a similar pressure having lost a very easy 2 races this year, I'm sure they will find the easiest spot now to try and get that win.  Being the HOTY last year, it would not be acceptable for her to keep running against females, she set that bar last year, in fact, she should not be running against females at all but I'm sure they're waiting for everyone to pull out of the race and be left with mules to run against.

 

07 Jun 2010 11:34 AM
Tim G

Because that is what Joel said in his post. Also that is what my contacts in NM said. Apparently based on working her over it?

Also that is what some people who are apparently from the NM racing circuit said on these threads.

There's not a lot of muddy tracks in NM, Ruidoso just happens to be one of them.

Regardless, when you have a valuable animal like that, who is at the end of their career it becomes harder and harder to subject them to uncertain conditions like the mud.

I understand it wasn't just muddy it was REALLY muddy.

I read also that Joel said the mare had been so good to them that they owed it to her to take care of her. He also said she was like a member of the family, then said it wasn't LIKE she was a member, she WAS one.

I've felt that way about a few of my horses.

We usually feel that way about our kids, dogs, or other pets.

(not that the kids are pets.LOL)

07 Jun 2010 11:49 AM
Householder

...This makes First Dude (a.k.a. Todd Palin), Drosselmeyer, and Interactif all that more appealing.  Fly Down as well if you overlook his trip at the Fair Grounds. Householder June 04, 5:42 p.m.

I had Fly Down, Drosselmeyer

with

Make Music for Me, Fly Down, Drosselmeyer, First Dude.

with

Make Music for Me, Drosselmeyer, First Dude, Interactif.

07 Jun 2010 12:00 PM
Householder

No reason to take your Belmont frustrations out on Zenyatta.  She was not running in the Belmont.  Just think if you embrassed the "dark side" and bet $2.00 on Zenyatta in each of her races.  You would be up by about $32.00!

07 Jun 2010 12:04 PM
Draynay

Tim G, You are a joke. The biggest joke of all, is thru this entire blog, you spouted off, made your little jabs and comments, and never ONCE made a pick for the Belmont. Not once! Go back and read the blog. You sure like to ridicule and make fun of other's picks, but never offer any of your own. Why is that bud? You talk all of this mess, but give us nothing, nada. I called you out before but was always too busy to go back and look, but now everyone can see the fraud as Tim G. Way to win after the race is over. The title of the Blog, was Belmont 142 Picks, not Lil Tim's Soapbox... SAD

Billy's Empire 07 Jun 2010 10:09 AM

Wow.... I guess everyone is catching onto your act Tim....lol.

07 Jun 2010 12:44 PM
Mama's Lil' Monster

Gunbow, I think it's way too early for you or anyone else to say that this year's TC "never did produce a breakout star" don't cha? Most of these 3yo's are still maturing & progressing while sidelined colts such as Take Control & Odysseus should return with gusto soon enough.Don't sell them short just yet they have every right to make noise this fall or next year.

People--- the Great Zenyatta will be coming to the land of Yapping Yankees and multiple massacres will occur. Expect a trail of 'Heads on sticks' leading into Churchill Downs for the BC Classic! Be afraid,be very,very afraid!

Jason & the other knuckle headed non-believers >>> lock-up your wife and kids it will be gruesome.

07 Jun 2010 12:45 PM
Fran Loszynski

If you want to finish a Triple Crown Series; I can't think of any better way than a "feel good" story. Uptowncharlybrown gave us that with all the owners in the grandstand and cheering him on. We tend to forget the owners that go into horseracing for the fun of it. Sometimes we get too serious and analyzing the lineage etc. We should analyze the lineage of the owners. I'm sure it was more fun for the owners to watch than to cash in a ticket. I think it's great we can mix both worlds-the sport and the heart. I'll bet heaven is bustling when the Triple Crown appears-I picture God with a good cigar, feet up, reading a racing form! See you all next year for the Triple Crown Series where you'll hear me once again shout

"Go Afleet Alex's Kids!"

07 Jun 2010 12:48 PM
Draynay

slyder, I am glad my picks helped you so much.  I am glad to help and will send a autograph picture to you right away.  The deep track made things hard and I added Game on Dude but had no Drosselmeyer.  Drosselmeyer was a fluke plain and simple and its hard to handicap a fluke.  I don't know anyone who had Drossel on top and Ice Box off their ticket.  I dropped Ice Box completely off my ticket and added Game On Dude after looking at how deep the track was.  Ice Box loved Gulfstream it was obvious he wasn't going to like a deep track.

07 Jun 2010 12:52 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP:

Before you spout off about what competition Zenyatta should face in her next race, pleases check out Citation’s last four races in his streak.

Citation:

• 16th  Allow – 6-F  (4 competitors)

• 15th  Tanforan Hdcp – 1-1/4M  (7 competitors)

• 14th  Allow – 6-F  (5 competitors)

• 13th  Pimlico Special – 1-3/16M (WALK OVER – no competitors)

Maybe it’s time to layoff and concentrate on your beloved Rachel whose connections still haven’t decided what race they are going to enter her in.

07 Jun 2010 12:59 PM
CV

"In my opinion, the choice of the Vanity is directly tied to the failed matchup with Rachel in the Apple Blossom.  Without that marquee win, Team Zenyatta is in unexpected territory, and have simply reverted to their standard operating procedures."    

GunBow 07 Jun 2010 1:18 AM

I think there's another reason no one has mentioned. Boosting Hollywood Park. Turf writer Claire Novak wrote a blog titled "So Last Year" (www.ntra.com/.../MTA0Mw==) and one paragraph suggests what I said above:

"The Daily Racing Form's David Grening made a good point this afternoon in discussions in the Belmont Park press box, where we're gearing up for this weekend's Belmont Stakes: Zenyatta owes her Vanity start to Hollywood Park, the dying racetrack once a key fixture of the South Cal circuit. Frankly, I hadn't thought of that before he brought it up, but I tend to agree."

With that in mind, why don't we don't we let the Vanity play out and see what John Shirreffs and and the Mosses do next.

07 Jun 2010 1:02 PM
Tim G

Billy, I can see you're jealous, sorry about that. Guess me trying to find out what you were talking about as far as being at clockers corner, in the paddock etc p.o.'d you? What's sad to me is you reporting from CD, quoting things you hear and then acting like you were standing there visiting with the person.

Go to the morning line blog on Friday. I made my pick on there.

First said all because this was a tough race to cap, then settled on the Zito pair. When Ice Box became bet down to nothing I got off him. I was at the track (not Belmont though) so I could see what was going on, how it was playing, how well Mike was riding and I played Dross on a hunch, plus Jason talking on THAT blog about how Dross would probably get him after being on him all year and the disrespect Dray gave him. I figure because Jason was talking him up earlier.

Since when did you become such a Draynay fan? He's the only one who I've said anything to.

You seem obsessed with me.

Here's an idea, you ignore me and I'll ignore you. If and when we meet up in a race then we'll see who is a fraud.....

07 Jun 2010 1:06 PM
Tim G

P.S. Billy, if you're going to try to call me out, read what I write.

I said some of MY contacts in NM.

Not the connections, but some people who I KNOW who know her connections.

LOL, guess I pegged you and now you're mad, and now you're like my little guy who says... so so suck my toe all the way to mexico. Grow up.

07 Jun 2010 1:10 PM
jayjay

I think I may have a new fan in this blog (Phony JJ), that makes 2 in addition to Draynay LOL.

Householder : good job, that's a juicy tri you hit.

Draynay : Just like he shouldn't be in any tickets in the Belmont Stakes right?  You're a joke, stop trying to get attention by making all these ridiculous predictions.  You're so in need of attention that you do that kind of predictions hoping that one time, you'll get it right and then claim how "good" you are.  Try a new act, unless you enjoy being the clown, the joke of the blog, you've made so many dumb predictions it's hilarious.  Try real handicapping.

By the way, no one cares about your opinion about cali racing or anything for that matter.  If you haven't noticed, people here are so eager to make fun of you because well, you open yourself up for it.  Even Jason can't help it to call you out with your BS excuses lol.  If you have a job, I would suggest you keep it and stop playing the horses, you're not good at it at all.

07 Jun 2010 1:47 PM
berttheclock

Ah, its tradition you want, eh?  OK, how about a little of "East side, West side, all around the town..........."  I believe they were singing that the day Big Red romped home by 31 lengths.  The only reason they dumped "Sidewalks of New York" was someone in management thought "New York, New York" would bring in the younger crowd.  In fact, I believe they used Liza's version instead of Frank's.  But, for tradition, bring back "Sidewalks".

07 Jun 2010 2:05 PM
Kat

Oye - Now it is Jess Jackson's fault that Zenyatta is running in the Vanity and facing so much criticism.  Let's just convict him of being "the root of all evil" and get it over with.  Zenyatta's connections are responsible for their decisions, no one else.  The basis for their decisions may be faulty, or not, but they are responsible for those decisions.

07 Jun 2010 2:05 PM
mr pibb

slyder,

It was nice to meet you to. Looking forward to having a couple beers with you in the future. You know where to find me, not that it is very hard in a small crowd at Canterbury.

As for giving draynay some advice. The only advice I have for him is hang it up, your schitck is way past old draynay. Try another hobby like basketweaving. I'm sure as a former college football player you took that course in school.

07 Jun 2010 2:10 PM
Householder

Blind Luck wants to go further.  At least one loss was at a mile where she similarly had to close against 0 speed.  Her breeding screams 1 1/8th.  

As far as Zenyatta goes, she's hardly a Silky Sulliven.  She pulled herself right up into the race against Hysterical Lady who was controlling the soft pace (1/2 in 49?).  I think she was about 4 off the pace in her first Lady's Secret.  

07 Jun 2010 2:40 PM
sodapopkid

How can we humans put down Zenyatta and the Vanity, when JJ as of Monday June 7, 2010 still has not announced were and in which race his fallen HOTY is going to run in in five days.  NOw that is some pityful. What the hell is he waiting for, to see who enters so he will know which race to duck...

07 Jun 2010 3:17 PM
Citation

Lazmannick, please don't insult Citation to make your point. You just make his fans, like me, angry. Look at the rest of his streak, which is far stronger, and note that in the Tanforan Handicap, he set a track record. Incidentally, 16 straight isn't the record for major competition at all. A horse named Hindoo (30 for 35, never out of the money, Hall of Famer) won 18 straight, and he was recent enough to win the Kentucky Derby in 1881. Why no one acknowledges his record is a question of which I have no answer. Of course, the real record for longest win streak is the one held by the Puerto Rican horse Camarero, at 56, but that is far from major competition that he was beating. Personally, I'm rooting for Zenyatta in the Vanity, hoping that if she is to lose, it will be against Quality Road and not these rather mediocre horses. Out of the rest of the field, I give Made for Magic the best shot of upsetting Zen. As for the Belmont, I didn't pick Drosselmeyer exclusively, but he was one of a group I narrowed it down to based on a hypothesis I have, the others being Stately Victor, Fly Down, and Game On Dude. This hypothesis has not yet failed to include the eventual Belmont winner, so maybe it can be a viable handicapping tool, but only for the Belmont, it doesn't appear to work for other races.

07 Jun 2010 3:30 PM
Pam S.

Gun Bow,

Good post from 1:18 this morning about Zenyatta and her connections.  Obviously, when they unretired her they did not say, "We just wanna beat Rachel," though that may have been how they felt.  What they did say was that she would have a different kind of campaign this year, one involving  more travel and races against males.  What do you think about Moss saying this?

Do you think, and I HATE to say this because I don't want to tempt the fates, but do you think the trip to Hot Springs had a long-lasting effect on Zenyatta?  She has had a couple of slowish works, which may or may not mean anything, and it seems to me the connections have been quite low-key since the AB, even for them.  

Or do you just think that right now it's all about 17 in a row and things will change somewhat if that milestone is achieved?  (Anyone besides Gun Bow, please chime in too.)

And I know this all has nothing to do with the TC!

07 Jun 2010 3:39 PM
GunBow

Pam S:

I think many of the critical comments concerning the the decision to run Zenyatta in the Vanity show that the Apple Blossom just didn't have the effect Moss was hoping for.  Moss did say when he unretired Z that he would be shipping her more.  And, he backed that up by running in the Apple Blossom.  In half of her races this year, Zenyatta has run in a race outside of California and on dirt.  If Rachel had been in the Apple Blossom, I think most people would have praised Moss for taking her back East and running on dirt.  However, since Rachel didn't run, it's almost as if the Apple Blossom never happened, or was held in California.  For Zenyatta's critics, the Apple Blossom ended up meaning very little.

Yes, CV, there is still alot more racing to go.  If, in fact, the Vanity is part of a campaign that will get progessively more demanding, Moss' conservatism now will be long forgotten come November.  And I do agree that rewarding Hollywood Park did factor in Moss' decision to run in the Vanity, especially since it's also the day of the Zenyatta bobblehead giveaway.

07 Jun 2010 4:03 PM
GunBow

Mama's Lil Monster:

I didn't write that  the horses that ran in the Triple Crown will not become breakout stars in the future.  Lookin at Lucky, First Dude, Fly Down, or some other 3 year might continue to improve and eventually become a major force.  However, the breakout hasn't happened yet; no horse brokeout DURING the Triple Crown itself.

07 Jun 2010 4:07 PM
Householder

Wasn't Drosselmeyer just one of many horses to get shut out of the Derby due to earnings?  

Drosselmeyer:  Appears in Act-I of the Nutcracker.  An eccentric old man who distributes presents to the children including Clara whom he gives a Nutcracker which is soon broken by her brother.  My "cultural" contribution for the day.  

Also, DEVO will be playing Hollywood Park.  "Whip it...whip it good!"  

07 Jun 2010 4:08 PM
GunBow

Kat:

I never BLAMED Jess Jackson for Moss' decision to run Zenyatta in the Vanity.  In fact, I was somewhat critical of Moss and Sherriffs having so far failed to adjust to the fact that the Apple Blossom win doesn't carry much weight in the eyes of certain racegoers.  I put the responsibility for choosing to run in the Vanity solely on Moss and Sherriffs, the two people who actually made the decision.  However, there is no doubt in my mind that Rachel's defection from the Apple Blossom seriously fudged Moss and Sherriff's plans and has affected the way Zenyatta's campaign will be received.

07 Jun 2010 4:12 PM
Householder

I heard/saw the new song and was enjoying it, but right in the middle the network cuts to a CHASE commercial!  Then I started thinking about interest rates, track closures, chapter 11, and the like.  Talk about a mood killer.  But, at least we did not have to see/hear one of those "Housewives" of New York! from the other network or watch how to pan fry a pineapple.  

07 Jun 2010 4:14 PM
GunBow

After this year's Triple Crown, Mine That Bird's exploits last spring certainly look more impressive.  Yes, Mine That Bird hadn't accomplished too much prior to the Derby(sorry Canada), and hasn't done much since, but winning the Derby, running 2nd in the Preakness(by a length to the HoY), and finishing a close 3rd in the Belmont(behind champion Summer Bird) does count for something.  Hopefully, he can be a factor in the handicap ranks this year.

07 Jun 2010 4:15 PM
jayjay

Pam : I believe I answered your question in my earlier post to LDP.  I don't think AB has anything to do with how the Moss' or Sheriffs have been "acting".  I really believe they have put this huge pressure on themselves to win 17th.  This is THE milestone for them, not the HOTY, not beating Rachel, not beating male horses.  The record will put Zenyatta in a class of her own, above Cigar and Citation and Mister Frisky.  That's a record that will last lifetimes, I don't think it will ever be broken the way the crop of horses are being bred nowadays and that's why I believe, for Team Z, this is a huge huge pressure, and a huge goal.  I'm comfortable to say once this Vanity race is over, we will see her schedule open up.

I don't think they're after Rachel at this point because Rachel is nowhere close to what she was last year.  If they were to race RA now, people will say, "well yeah, she's not the same horse as last year" so I don't think they're wasting any time thinking about her.  It's the 17th win, then the Classic, those are the two things that are important to Team Z, I believe.

Anyone else read the article about RA's "smooth" work today ?  Is that typical of Rachel, seems inconsistent with me as far as her works.  She's worked 1:17, then 1:11, now :49...she typically burns through her workout with ease.  I don't know, something tells me she's still not right mentally, like she doesn't seem focus on what she needs to do.  Hopefully it IS what Asmussen says it is, what they were looking for but really, I don't quite trust Asmussen's words anymore when it comes to RA, he's become Jess' robot and will only say what he is allowed to say, fed to him by Jess.  Sad that a trainer like Asmussen has become that...he was only allowed to accept responsibility for RA's two losses but other than that, he "waits" for Jess to tell him what to do.

07 Jun 2010 4:17 PM
GunBow

I'm actually surprised Zenyatta's only carrying 129 lbs.  She carried the same weight in last year's Vanity, and since then has won 5 gr.1 races including the Breeder's Cup Classic.  Honestly, I think she should be spotting more than 9 lbs to St. Trinians, a horse that has won just one graded stakes.

07 Jun 2010 4:17 PM
Leon

Once again, Zen lovers...

Why would you have the best horse in the country running in the same races, in the same state for almost no money? The BCC is at Churchill. She should have been in the Stephen Foster. They even refuse to run her in the Hollywood Gold Cup, on her home track!!!

By the way, Can anyone tell me how many races have been won by the horses Zenyatta defeated in the Classic, 7 months after? Gio Ponti, has lost 4 straight, Summer Bird has been retired & Mine That Bird has not run.

07 Jun 2010 4:18 PM
Billy's Empire

mad, about what, being a stand up guy. Laughable. I could care less about you, I just find it amusing that you probably post more crap on this blog, and you never have anything to say about the races, you just go off of everyone else. Have a take, DONT SUCK. That's what Rome say's, right.

I actually find Dray refreshing and amusing, and talk about someone obsessing. You know Dray's whole life story.

At least Dray comes to the board, posts his remarks, and then makes up excuses of why he lost. You don't even post your picks, until AFTER THE RACE, BWWAHAHAHAHAHH. I could be a real genius too if I did that.

Oh well, to each his own.

07 Jun 2010 4:19 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Mama's Lil Monster

   Nice post. I'm ready for more from you. Definitely, some of these 3yo are going to be good with more time. It's a later maturing group for the most part. I guess you were at the French Revolution too (heads on a stick). However I do think it will be alright for the wives and kids to be there at CD for The Classic. I was watching horror movies at a very young age. Boris Karloff, Vincent Price, Peter Lorre. And these kids today see a lot more brutality than I ever did. I'm sure they can handle Zenyatta turning the boys into mincemeat and crying lambs. It will be a fury unleashed on CD never seen before in the annals of atrocities and wipeouts. She'll dance before the race and dance in the winner's circle while the boys and one girl are crying in the barn with their tails between their legs. What a monster !!!!!! They might even call it cruel and unusual punishment.

07 Jun 2010 4:22 PM
Leon

CV:

If they wanted to boost Hollywood Park by having Zenyatta in a race there, they should have entered her in the Hollywood Gold Cup. The Mosses are doing the same thing all over again!

07 Jun 2010 4:22 PM
CV

"Do you think, and I HATE to say this because I don't want to tempt the fates, but do you think the trip to Hot Springs had a long-lasting effect on Zenyatta?  She has had a couple of slowish works..."

Pam S.  07 Jun 2010 3:39 PM  

Pam,

Someone on (another) went to the track this morning to watch Zenyatta's work for himself. Here's what he posted afterward:

"She came out of the barn bursting with dappled and did her strut the whole way to the track. She broke off behind two workmates, eyed them wide down the backstretch, took command coming off the turn, then loped to the wire. It looked like a typical race of hers. Pulling up she was dancing ears up while the two workmates huffed and puffed. Mike apologized if it was too slow while coming off the track."

Also interesting: I read several posts that referenced a 1:15.20 workout by Zenyatta prior to the 2009 Vanity Handicap, which she won. So I guess she's run this same time before.

07 Jun 2010 4:23 PM
LAZMANNICK

Citation

I'm not trying to insult Citation to make my point.  Citation's record is what it is.  I know how great he was, but if you happen to have his lifetime past performances take a close look at the races in his streak.  It seems a travesty to question Citation's races in the streak, even the walkover, but it is okay to question or denegrade Zenyatta.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU.  That's not my intention.

07 Jun 2010 4:29 PM
Householder

Mister Friskey had a lot of wins going into the Derby undefeated.  

Is there currently another horse in training in this county that has 10 grade 1 wins? Just sit back and enjoy.  

07 Jun 2010 4:33 PM
Pedigree Shelly

        tcc ,Thanks for pointing that out ! It really made my day :)

       Ted from LA are you really 94 ? Did you see War Admiral's Belmont ? LOL!!!! but , seriously I would be interested in putting up money for a nice two year old !

07 Jun 2010 4:56 PM
Pedigree Shelly

         Ted from LA , You are a lucky guy to have been around in the "glory days" of horseracing ! I bet you had Seabiscuit eating out of your hand , literally !!

07 Jun 2010 5:04 PM
Jason Shandler

Pedigree Shelly: Ted is not 94. He was pulling your leg. He is actually 16, going on 13

07 Jun 2010 5:16 PM
Tim G

You are obsessed and if you think Dray is a breath of fresh air, stop hanging out in the smoking section. Dray and I trade barbs, some people I know have talked about him a bit. This affects you how???

I don't tout, I've said that a million times. BUT:

"1:00  [Comment From Tim GTim G: ]

Dray, so sorry, I'm charting. Belmont All, LOL Or the Zito pair."

As I said thanks to Jason I hit the tri. I didn't cash a win ticket because I just threw Dross in on a hunch and because of what Jason said, in my exotics.

You seem to be following me around, get a life. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings when I asked which ownership group you were in. You wouldn't be so irritated if what you said about 'owning' all those different horses or actually KNOWING all those people was true.

You'd make one comment then let it slide off your back.

Still say if we actually meet up one day, if you actually run one of your horses? You'll see I'm who I say I am, that I'm a big fan and devoted race tracker and actually a fairly nice person.

Otherwise? Like I said I'll ignore you and you just feel free to do the same with me.  

07 Jun 2010 5:28 PM
LAZMANNICK

Leon

How many of them have retired and how many haven't even started their 2010 season yet?

07 Jun 2010 5:28 PM
LDP

GunBow,

I agree completely. I thought they would have had her carry around 132-135lbs, and IMO, with this field they should have. They are just trying to make it as easy as possible for her to gain that number 17 in my opinion, which is a shame by both the handicapper and the owners.

07 Jun 2010 5:28 PM
LAZMANNICK

Householder

Mr. Frisky won 13 races in a row in South America and the last three races of his streak in N/A.  I do know that in the Santa Anita Handicap, the 16th win in a row, the horse that finished 2nd, Video Ranger, had only a maiden win lifetime in ten starts.  The horse that finished 3rd, Warcraft, was a decent horse but never won a G-1 race. LOL

07 Jun 2010 5:35 PM
LDP

Laz,

Citation is a TC winner, Zenyatta has not faced near that kind of competition. She didn't take on the 08 Classic field, a fairly strong field, RP and Henry were both extremely good, and prove they were not just milers. Curlin despite being over the top and moving way too soon still ran an exceptional races as did Tiago that day. The 09 Classic was a good field, but had it been w/o Zen there would be no real star power at all. All the champions she has beaten have come on a surface that they had either proven their dislike over, had not been training well over it, or had not proven themselves over it. I am not saying she is not great, I believe she is, but I would like to see it and know it, and with the way she is being run we'll never see it.

07 Jun 2010 5:40 PM
CV

CV:

"If they wanted to boost Hollywood Park by having Zenyatta in a race there, they should have entered her in the Hollywood Gold Cup. The Mosses are doing the same thing all over again!"

Leon 07 Jun 2010 4:22 PM

Should have??? Leon, the Hollywood Gold Cup hasn't been run yet. It's scheduled for Saturday, July 10.

07 Jun 2010 5:44 PM
LDP

Jayjay,

Fillies will not enter against her FILLIES. Let her go against colts and you may see some of the same that happened to RA last year, when many decide to gang up on her and make it as hard as possible for her to win. In her first start against colts BD forced her five or six wide into the first turn and push her through fractions nearly equal to, and even fast at points than this years Preakness. You know the one everyone likes to praise FD about, yet will trash RA's performance?

In her first try against older males they again ganged up on her. First Da Tara then Past the Point pushing her every step of the way. then she got to take on two horses, who when actually perform are some hard knocking closers. The race SET UP for both MA and Bullsbay, both who were in great form that summer, and they still never ever put a head in front of her, even after the wire.

Zenyatta went in the Classic yes, but nobody really ganged up in that race. The Classic is a race where everyone is in it to win it for themselves. That is not so with the Woodward or Preakness, where RA was ganged up on by others. Of course we won't know what Zenyatta will do when she is ganged up on by the boys since Moss refuses to put her in more than one race agaist them!

She has beaten nobody this year of any note. Unbridled Bell could beat any of the horses Zen has beaten and so could Zardana. Zardana may not have been well know, but UB was considered a very nice 3yr old last year, and came into the race against Flashing unbeaten and finished third. Acting like she is not a nice filly to batter RA is ignorant in it's true meaning.

RA may not have beaten many fantastic horses so far this year, but then again name the ones Zenyatta has.

07 Jun 2010 5:55 PM
Pedigree Shelly

       Thank You Jason for telling me the truth that Ted isn't even old enough to bet :)

I kinda knew he was pulling my leg ! I gotta kick playing along anyways :)

07 Jun 2010 6:08 PM
Tim G

Don't think so Dray. You were on the blog, Jason was convincing when he said he dropped Dross and it would proabably bite him. Then when Mike was riding so well? Then when you totally dismissed him? I just threw him in on a tri box.

Don't be too thrilled. Billy actually LIKES you, opposite of everyone else on here. Billy is apparently the one with delusions. If he is legitimate? He would just laugh and say oh well. You're just happy that he thinks it's okay to make a thousand excuses.

I make mention of ONE of my bets, to sort of thank Jason and you and he go bonkers.

By the way if you're at the BC come look me up.

07 Jun 2010 6:10 PM
Pam S.

Well, everyone, thanks for all the responses re: Zenyatta.  I guess all is well as far as her fitness and readiness to race.  I'm looking forward to Sunday and to what comes after that. (And I know she would never run if she wasn't 100%.)

I was beginning to think Moss said what he did about traveling etc. just in the excitement of the moment, after announcing Z would come back to the races. I thought maybe, since she doesn't seem to be a real GREAT shipper, they are now reluctant to subject her to it.  And as far as the Hollywood Gold Cup, who knows, maybe it's next on the agenda.  If so, here's a suggestion for the track  marketing dept.:  How about a Jerry Moss bobblehead?  That ought to be good for about 10,000 extra admissions!

But seriously, with a one-of-a-kind horse like Z, I'm sure the decisions of when and where to run weigh heavily on the owners.  Like Sodapopkid said, look how long JJ is taking to announce where Rachel will turn up on Sat.  Guess we fans and railbirds just have to put up with the quirks of the super-rich.

07 Jun 2010 6:11 PM
katsan

Billy in fairness to Tim an even though I haven't posted on here since last year i have been reading and I was wondering to how many syndicates or partnerships you were in. It did seem like a lot.

Also hes correct. I was one of about 6 or 7 people who was giving reports on the blog about Peppers Pride from Ruidoso Downs, NM.

Draynay was doing what he does best being disrespectful.

I do know Joel, I have known his dad since he was a young man, now he's like the rest of us old. I don't want to get in the middle of this but wanted to clear up that Pepper never trained or ran on a slick track. She didn't like it.

I also don't know whether you are a horseman or not and I really don't care except as curiosity.But i kinda wonder about anyone who could say not so nice things about another owner or trainers horse or one who would support someone who makes unkind comments about them all the time.

That is just my opinion which don't mean much but its kind of an ugly thing to do. Also, if you really are a horseman Id say it dont do much to proving that you are one to get insulting to other horsemen. Maybe thinking that but sure not writing it in public.

07 Jun 2010 6:34 PM
jayjay

So Rachel will get 124 lbs in the G3 Fleur De Lis...is that ridiculous or what ??  She had 124 for the G2 La Troinne !!  She should be given at least 128 for this G3 field.

07 Jun 2010 6:40 PM
GunBow

jayjay:

I agree the streak is important for Team Zenyatta.  I orginally didn't think it was a huge thing for them, but now I really do believe it is key.

I would like to believe that if Zenyatta wins the Vanity, Moss and Sherriffs will open up the playbook and run back East and run at least once against males prior to the Classic.  However, what makes Zenyatta's streak so unique is that she is undefeated.  

When Cigar was going for the record, Paulson and Mott knew that once they had tied or broken the record, that was it, history made.  Thus, once the record was set, they could really relax; because Cigar had already lost races in his career, a loss after the record wouldn't be devastating.  Yes, there would be disappointment with a loss, but had Cigar already broken the record, the main objective would have been achieved.    

Zenyatta is in a different position.  I believe that Moss and Sherriffs want to both set the record AND keep Zenyatta undefeated for her career.  A loss would not only end the streak, but it would ruin her perfect record.  So, even if Zenyatta were to break the record, there would still be great pressure to keep that perfect record.

Obviously, every owner and trainer wants to win as much as they can.  So, saying that Moss wants Zenyatta to keeping winning, and extend Zenyatta's undefeated record, is not particularly informative.  However, the desire to maintain this perfect record may lead Moss to continue being conservative, even if Zenyatta wins #17.  

Clearly Moss wants Zenyatta to break the record for most consecutive wins, and this may have affected his choice of races.  If Zenyatta wins Sunday, the question will be how much Moss values keeping Zenyatta perfect?  If the answer is alot, or as much as breaking the record, then I probably wouldn't expect a progressive campaign. I don't have the answers myself, and can only speculate.

07 Jun 2010 6:53 PM
Householder

Moss (A@M records) certainly knows a thing or two about promoting a product.  He threw 2 retirement bashes for Zenyatta getting the Governor of California to speak at one event.  Being a California Horse Racing Board Member would he not be promoting racing in California in this dire time?  The owners of Santa Anita are in chapter 11 (What is their stock at like 70 cents?), Hollywood Park is to be torn down, and Del Mar is owned by the state and is frequently listed as one of the potential properties to be liquidated by the state. The lease was up on the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club's 20 year running. If racing in California needs to be promoted through its current racing stars than so be it.  Zenyatta would certainly be on that short list along with the Preakness, and Kentucky Oaks winner.  

07 Jun 2010 7:08 PM
Kat

GB - Perhaps  interpretation was colored by this:

The one thing I will say in defense of Moss and Sherriffs is that their schedule for Zenyatta was royally screwed when Jess Jackson pulled Rachel from the Apple Blossom.

However, becuase Jackson basically punked out, Sherriffs and Moss are under alot more heat than they probably anticpated being under back in March. . . . (forgetting that it was Jess Jackson's fault that the "Race of the Century" didn't occur).

In my opinion, the choice of the Vanity is directly tied to the failed matchup with Rachel in the Apple Blossom.

Thank you for clarifying, that's not the way I interpreted the "tone" of the above statements.  

Perhaps they are going on to the Vanity because that IS what they planned to run in after meeting RA at Oaklawn (they did have a next race schedule).  As you mentioned, they just expected to come in to it with a different history and therefore, public perception.  IF RA had been at the top of her game (which she so obviously was not), and Z had still beat her in the AB, do you think Z would face more or less pressure to meet males in her subsequent races?

Owning a victory over Rachel, the demand for Zenyatta would have been alot lighter than they are now.  That's why I'm sure Moss and Sherriffs were stung by Rachel being pulled from the Apple Blossom.  Now, instead of being asked to defeat Rachel, Zenyatta's critics are demainding the big filly run 3 or 4 times on the East, of course on dirt, and against gr.1 males.  Moss and Sherriffs were never prepared to do this.

This is not a new "demand", remember Curlin and 2008 HOY?

I think that's what is so mystifying about her schedule at times, they clearly want to see her get HOY and universal love (etc,etc), but there does not seem to be much of a learning curve there.  Do you think the "demands" are unfair?  I do appreciate that HOY is always relative. . .

I suspect the Z show is going to go on the road, the Vanity will get her #17 and they are hoping it to be an easy prep for the next start.  

P.S.  I'm with you on MTB, he ran a terrific Triple Crown series, and it seems he has never gotten the broad based recognition for it he deserves (Chip W too).  

07 Jun 2010 7:31 PM
GunBow

Pam S  + jayjay:

I don't think the Apple Blossom has affected Moss and Sherriffs' decision-making. Expecting an epic race with Rachel in the Apple Blossom, my guess is that Moss and Sherriffs were planning to take it easy with Zenyatta after the race.  The entire winter was spent getting Zenyatta ready to travel and then peak on Aplle Blossom day.  I don't think they had anything in specific set for after the race, but were palnning to give her some time off, and probably shoot for an easier race to start the second half of the year.

And had Rachel been in the Apple Blossom, I think the criticism over running in the Vanity would be much more muted.  And that's my main point.  It's not that Rachel's absence from the Apple Blossom has aftected Moss and Sherriffs' decisions or choice of race(Vanity), but instead has affected how the general public, and her critics specifically, perceive Zenyatta's schedule/itenary.

With a win over Rachel, the pressure from the public for Moss to test Zenyatta and to go outside the box would be much lower than it actually is.  Rather than being satisfied or placated, Zenyatta's critics view her Apple Blossom win as being rather hollow without Rachel in the field.  And these people are disappointed that Moss and Sherriffs have not adjusted to this reality, have not adjusted to the fact that Zenyatta did not get that historic victory in the Apple Blossom.  They are confused and even upset that Moss and Sherriffs, by choosing to run in the Vanity, are acting like the Apple Blossom was something historic, acting as if Rachel had been in the Apple Blossom field.

In my opinion, by running Z in the Vanity Moss and Sherriffs are doing what they would have done had Rachel been among the defeated Apple Blossom foes.  In choosing the Vanity, Moss and Sherriffs appear impervious to those critics who view the win in the Rachel-less Apple Blossom as inconsequential and who are demanding Zenyatta run in gr.1 races against males back East on dirt.

07 Jun 2010 7:41 PM
Footlick

And the beat goes on........... again.  ZZZZZZZZZZZ

07 Jun 2010 7:42 PM
Vic S

Thank you for the kind words jayjay and sodapopkid!  I only speak the truth, no matter where the big mare goes, everyone will leave lol.  Sheriffs is a genius let him stick to the plan thats right for the horse! I'm gonna post the same post I had earlier in case some others missed it.

--

I will say it as I have said so many times before.  Tell me which horse has won the BCC and been undefeated, won in G1 Co. for three years, etc.  Lets not forget this horse is a mare.  Thats right only ONE HORSE in HISTORY can say this.  G1 Co. is top competition.  She has done this for 3 years, and won the BCC undefeated, carry top weight (129) when most your top weighted horses for G1's get in at about 119.  Anyone is futile when arguing this point.  They are doing whats best for the horse on her path to the BC, not what her DETRACTORS want her to do.  Everyone was mad about what they (connections) did with her last year, and come the BCC the people see her connections as heros - AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN.  Hello people, look no further than Sunday Silence in 89' he took an easier path to BCC, won and was HOTY.  HE EVEN LOST earlier in the year, something Zenyatta has NEVER DONE!!! Zenyatta is undefeated and has beaten better horses than Sunday Silence (other than Easy Goer - obviously).  Fact being, AIM SMALL MISS SMALL.  Keep your concentration do what is needed for your goal and then obtain it, do not overthink.  No matter she races in Kentucky in the Foster or California in the Vanity, you are guaranteed of weak, overmatched field no matter what the sex.  The older males are TERRIBLE, Quality Road and Rail Trip aren't going to either race - obviously.  No point in risking the horse on a race that in actuality means little compared to years ends achievements.  Athletes of any sport at the top of any game will tell you this.  If I swim in Indiana, why in the heck would I travel to lets say Kansas for the equivalent of the same competition?  Doesn't make since, you build up for the event - Mr. Sheriffs is a genius, if you go against his plan you don't know racing.  FACT.  For you Quality Road fans tell me, how many times has he won past a 1 1/8?? None.  Who has he beaten thats a G1 winner? No one, or near no one.  You east coast boys (I am globally based east coast so don't be offended) don't know fair racing in terms of achievements.  If a horse doesn't race east its a travesty to you.  Zenyatta - in California alone - in actuality traveled farther than Rachel did.  O yeah New Jersey and New York are sooooooooooo far away, keep kidding yourselves.  Keep making useless words to detract from Zenyatta but facts are facts.  Just read the first 4 sentences of this.  Rachel beat slow older hores ONCE, and beat a weak avg. group of 3 year olds.  She only beat one decent horse - Summer Bird, who at the time wasn't half the horse he was by year's end.  You can look at beyers all you want but anyone in their right mind can see that Zenyatta is the best horse in the America.  Who's beaten Zenyatta??? Thank you.  :  )

07 Jun 2010 7:45 PM
sodapopkid

JayJay,  I agree with you, Last time for Rachel's training it was "bullet works,  traiining 'crazy good', I think they are scared to open their mouths again because she has faulterred twice so far.  I hope I'm wrong, but I am very suspicious of her works......I believe if she loses to males in the Foster, they will run her one more time and if she loses in the Fleur lis race to females again , I think they will retire her........eithr way,  I dont see Rachel running to the end of the year......I hope I am wrong,  I'm saying what my gut is feeliing.

On TVG about a week ago,  Hollywood clocker was talking to the reporters on TVG,  and he was talking about Zenyatta, he said:   "Zenyatta was doing fine now, but she didnt come out of the Apple Blossom trip as well as they wanted her too",  I believe the traveling by air was a bit stressful on her.........He talked like the trip was stressful.....I expect at six years old and never doing air travel alot can be stressing on a horse.........

Zenny may have her hands full with St. Trinnians Sunday..........

Does anyone know why JJ is waiting so damn late to say where his horse is running?? I mean good grief,  That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen............He must not plan on sending her far, because she woould have needed more time for travel and settling down before her race..........Who knows with that man, geesh......

07 Jun 2010 7:48 PM
Tim G

I wish we'd wait a while to criticize these connections. I don't know what the plans for the mare are, do any of you? Does anyone know WHAT route ANY of the connections have planned?.

I think we should all hope that all of these horses that people are talking about stay healthy and make it to the Breeders Cup. Can you imagine what that will do? Citing the MISERABLE viewership of the Belmont, I hope they all keep heading to that big day. I know we'll have a crowd here, and they'll be betting. But what great things would Zenyatta, RA and QR do if they all three make it to the day. Along with MTB, LAL, SS and anyone else who wants to join the party.

07 Jun 2010 8:02 PM
Zookeeper

After taking a break from this blog, I come back to find things pretty much the same as they were when I left. Did not have time to read all the comments I missed. (Maybe that's a good thing. lol!) But I got the impression that most people on here had about as much luck in the Belmont as I had. Drosselmeyer was all over my exotics, but not in the first spot. Darn!!!

I thought it was an exciting race to watch and a bear to handicap. Even if I did lose every bet I made, I still enjoyed the race and can't wait to see which horse emerges as the *star* of this group of 3yr olds. The summer races should be interesting to say the least! (mystifying?, maybe)

In the mean time, we have Zenyatta and her schedule to keep some of us occupied. I, for one, will simply sit back and enjoy... while chewing my fingernails and having palpitations. If some of you are bored with it, may I suggest that you bet the farm on her to win the Vanity. Since her victory is so easily predicted, because of the nature of her competition, it seems to me that it would be a simple way to spice things a bit, don't you think?

I seriously doubt that most of you "yawners" will put any money on her no matter how much you consider the race to be a "walk-over". I know, I know, you don't bet the chalk!!!  :)

07 Jun 2010 8:03 PM
sodapopkid

Zenyatta and Rachel could be done had their matchup if JJ would quit ducking her and chickening out with his excuses......Rachel has had enoough time to be ready for this.........almost a freaking year since her woodward race.........she has had time to bounce back if she plans on it......two prep races and plenty of good training......you know " bullet works and training crazy goods.

07 Jun 2010 8:08 PM
jayjay

LDP :  Are you seriously still talking about RA's races last year ?  I don't understand the point of you bringing up the races last year.  I had to read it again and you seem to be whining that RA got banged up and still won.  Well...that's GREAT! and you know what, she won HOTY last year. I thought I'd remind you to make you happy since you're seem to still be stuck on last year's RA.  If you pay attn, I posted on here many times that I don't think the Moss's really cares about the HOTY, if they win it, it's a bonus but they are after breaking the record and they're going after it in the Vanity.  Rachel or QR can take that HOTY honors because they can never match what Zenyatta has done, run in 16 races and be undefeated.  Whine all you want about who she beat but it's in the record books, people that matters accepts it and are happy and enjoying it.  I've enjoyed being a fan of Zenyatta, watching her win her races and even made money on some of it and I will enjoy watching her races even after she retires.

FYI, it's Unrivaled Belle, not Unbridled Belle.  Yes, she probably can beat the same horses that Zenyatta beat in the Apple Blossom since she stared RA in the eye and said bye bye lol but here's the question for ya, why didn't UB run against Zenyatta then?  Why did she run against RA and not Zenyatta ??  Let me tell you, because RA was vulnerable whereas Zenyatta looked formidable.  Again, Zenyatta put fears on trainers and owners and none of them wants to run against her unless they want the 2nd place money.

Zenyatta started her 2010 campaign in G1 races.  Now...bashing Zenyatta for what she's done this year IS ignorant when the horse you're touting and comparing to her has not even won a race.  You have to revert back to last year to make an argument, it's old, it's so last year.  We're halfway through 2010, it's Breeder's Cup time.  Let's see her get back to winning and then you can start comparing her to Zen.  Now quit your whining lol.

07 Jun 2010 8:12 PM
sodapopkid

If someone was managing Rachel correctly last year , maybe she would already be running and winning in grade one's this year........

07 Jun 2010 8:13 PM
Draynay

Drosselmeyer = Mine That Bird

07 Jun 2010 8:16 PM
sodapopkid

Footlick:  As long as these two girls are gracing the tracks with their beautiful selves, they will always keep a conversation going..........

07 Jun 2010 8:21 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

Citation is a TC winner and faced a total of 15 competitors in the three races.  Of the TC horses only Coaltown was considered a consistently top horse.  Vulcan’s Forge won 9 of 50 races, but did win the Santa Anita Hdcp. and the Champagne and several other stakes and My Request won 22 of 52, but no major stakes.  As much as I like Citation, get your facts straight.  Citation never ran in any single race during his streak that had as many horses that won as many classic and G-1 type races as Zenyatta did in her BCC.  Anyway, I’m not trying to prove that Zen is better than Citation.  To put it bluntly, she’s not.   I am showing you how absurd your statement is that her connections should pick a more difficult race to win her 17th (if she wins it), by showing how weak three of the last four races in Citation’s streak were.

And if you think that that 2008 BCC was so tough, here’s something to ponder.  Compare the times of all the dirt races at SA in the 2008 BC to the dirt races in the 2009 BC.  The track in 2008 was nearly TWO seconds faster.  To put that in perspective, if the 2009 races were adjusted (like Andy Beyer does in track equalization), then Zen’s BCC would have been run in 1.58.3.  If you think that that’s impossible, then slow the 2008 races by 2 seconds and Raven’s Pass runs his race in 2009 in 2.01.1  Do you not understand that that is why Zen’s Beyer was rated at 112, and Raven’s Pass 110?  And then you’re saying that Summer Bird, Gio Ponti Rip Van Winkle, etc. and etc. did not represent star power.  What do you call Summer Bird’s two VICTORIES OVER Quality Road and his winning the JCGC, Travers and Belmont in the same year (1st since Easy Goer)?  And this bit about track surfaces is nothing but another CROCK.  Not very many horses were at a disadvantage because of the track surface.  For sure, Curlin wasn’t because he showed an awesome turn of foot once he started rolling around the turn and received a 106 Beyer.  It was more a premature move rather than being over the top that got him beat.  It certainly wasn't the track surface.

07 Jun 2010 8:25 PM
LAZMANNICK

Footlick

I thought that the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ started on Saturday.  Just Kidding.

07 Jun 2010 8:26 PM
2:24

Rachel:  I did not make that post to disrespect any horse though I admit that it did.  For that I apologise.  I posted the two mules and a Shetland pony comment out of frustration over Zenyatta running in the Vanity.  I think Zenyatta is the best horse out there and will beat any horse on any surface.  I just feel cheated as a fan.  I also think it is not worthwhile to risk such a greathorse in the Vanity against three other horses.  Just doesn't make sense to me.  I know St. Trinians and the other two horses are quality animals.  I'm sorry if I offended you.

07 Jun 2010 8:34 PM
the derby dream

Must admit a 94 Beyer for Drosselmeyer is not impressive but it was a fantastic race. This group looks to be average at best but hopefully someone will step up come late summer and fall. Looking forward to Rachel and big Z this weekend just wish it was against each other.

07 Jun 2010 8:39 PM
CV

"In choosing the Vanity, Moss and Sherriffs appear impervious to those critics who view the win in the Rachel-less Apple Blossom as inconsequential and who are demanding Zenyatta run in gr.1 races against males back East on dirt."

GunBow 07 Jun 2010 7:41 PM

Perhaps they know her "critics" will never be silenced, Gunbow. I read one comment from a person on another blog who insisted Z should ship to several races over the next few months, with short times between them. She MUST do this, she MUST do that, she MUST carry very heavy weight, and so on. Curiously, such demands are not made for say, Quality Road or Rachel Alexandra, or even Rail Trip.

From what I've read, many of Zenyatta's critics would be happy to see her practically destroyed. All because they hate California racing, or hate synthetic tracks, or bitterly hate the fact that their favorite horse has lost a couple races this year and isn't as prominent. Sad.

07 Jun 2010 8:52 PM
GunBow

Kat:

I still don't see where I blamed Jess Jackson.

But regardless, I do see where I definitely strayed off my main point.  And I'll be honest, I've backed off my statement that the decision to run in the Vanity was dirctly related to the failed matchup with Rachel in the Apple Blossom.  To be honest, I don't know why I wrote that.  So, you are absolutely correct to be confused by that.  I am too.

My key point was that the failed matchup with Rachel in the Apple Blossom has strongly affected how Zenyatta's campaign is now being perceived, and is directly related to the sizeable criticism being directed at Moss and Sherriffs.  So, it's not the decision by Moss and Sherriffs to run in the Vanity that is directly connected to the failed Rachel matchup, it's the way the public has perceived this decision.

I agree with you that Moss and Sherriffs would have chosen the Vanity had Rachel been in the Apple Blossom.  The key is that with a win over Rachel, on dirt and a long way from California, Moss and Sherriffs would have faced much less criticsm for running in the Vanity.  They would have had alot more room to maneuver.

So, yes I do think that by running in the Vanity Moss and Sherriffs are doing what they most likely would have done had Rachel run in the Apple Blossom.  So, the failed matchup really didnt factor much in the decision to run in the Vanity.  However, what the failed matchup did affect was how the general public perceived this decision, and the level of criticsm directed towards Moss and Sherriffs for reverting to their standard operating procedures.  Without that marquee win over Rachel, many are demanding Zenyatta's schedule of races  be anything but "standard".  They want Moss and Sherriffs to shoot for the moon, but thus far Moss and Sherriffs appear content to stick with their typical gameplan.

Do I think the demands of some critics to be unfair?  Yes.  In asking Zenyatta to face and defeat older gr.1  males in 4 or 5 races all away from her homebase, people are asking Zenyatta to so something that no female horse in North America has been able to do over the last 100 years(go undefeated against top males over 5 races).  To be ranked as the #4 female in North America by the Bloodhorse, Personal Ensign only had to beat males once, in the Whitney, in her home state of New York.  If Personal Ensign was immune from such demands, why is Zenyatta held to such a standard?

At the same time, I do think Moss and Sherriffs are being a little overly-conservative by running in the Vanity.  Now, if it's being used as a prep for the Whitney or Hollywood Gold Cup, then maybe we should hold back on criticism.  But if her next start after the Vanity is in the Clement Hirsch, then I just don't understand why they brought her back and risking her health(of course they would never do anything intentionally to hurt Z, but racing does come with more risks than being in the stables).  Personally, I believe in taking the middle road with Zenyatta.  I don't think she has to run in 4 gr.1 races against males back East, but I do think she has to do more than she did last year.  If Moss and Sherriffs can mix these Cali feamle races with a few races back East or a race in Cali against males, then I personally will be satisfied.

07 Jun 2010 8:54 PM
Footlick

sodapopkid- I'm tired of the disrespect given both of them.  And it is so repetitious.  That's why the zzzzzzzz's.  

2:24- thanks for apologizing.  You don't know how many times I went to respond and then thought it wouldn't be worth it.  Thanks for proving me wrong on one count at least.

07 Jun 2010 9:00 PM
LAZMANNICK

Someone on here stated that he/she thought that Zen would have been assigned 132 to 135 lbs. for the Vanity.  That seems pretty absurd when considering that the highest weight that Curlin ever carried was 128 lbs. in the Stephen Foster.  Other than that one time, his highest weight assignment was 126 lbs.  Quality Road, in spite of his 121 Beyer in the Donn Hdcp., was assigned only 124 lbs. in the Met Mile in spite of facing a weak field with only two G-1 winners (by a nose and by DQ and not further than 7-F).  

Does anyone know when the last time a horse (male of female) was assigned 130 lbs. or more in a stakes race?

07 Jun 2010 9:11 PM
LDP

Laz,

Curlin carried 132lbs, IN HIS FIRST START OF THE YEAR. He did this while also in another country, when every other horse in the field was carrying 117lbs, and quite honestly those horses could beat over half the horses Zenyatta has faced over her career. So, in response to your question yes, the last time a horse carried over 130lbs was when in 2008.

07 Jun 2010 9:41 PM
Paula Higgins

Tim G, totally agree with your post above. We need to give all the connections a break here.

I am thinking Zenyatta is starting to feel it a little bit, age etc. Just my gut. I think the Vanity is going to be a bit of a challenge for her. But as Rachel has shown, the works don't always tell the whole story. This weekend will tell us alot about the rest of the year.

07 Jun 2010 9:45 PM
LAZMANNICK

GunBow

I read your 07 Jun 2010 8:54 PM post.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  When and if Zen takes on males this year it will have to be a meaningful race with some top competitors (not a bunch of pretenders).  Trying to defeat males every time out in such races is a daunting task, even for top males.  I would like to see her run a mid summer race against top males and then the BCC with at least one of the races on conventional dirt.  LOL

07 Jun 2010 9:48 PM
Pedigree Shelly

          LAZMANNICK hello ! Just wanted to point out to you that Mister Frisky started out at El Commadante in Puerto Rico ! I think he won his 14 races there ,until he was turned over to Laz Barrera in Cali :)

07 Jun 2010 9:55 PM
tcc

Jason:

Jayjay: I didnt cash. I had Drosselmeyer in exotics but not on top. I was on the horse all Triple Crown season but got off after the Dwyer. Couldnt get past him losing by 6 to Fly Down. Then foot issues. lol. Figures.

I also read about the foot issues, I also noticed he had 59.65 5f workout so the feet must have not bothered him to much, I did stay with throughout, if he had made enough earning's to make the Derby, I was going take a look at him to be at least in the money. I did put a win bet-place bet on him, also boxed Drosselmeyer, Fly Down, Stay Put in the exacta. I remember you liking Drosselmeyer, sorry you didn't stay with him.

07 Jun 2010 9:59 PM
LDP

Jayjay,

I've never been a great speller and have openly admitted to not being perfect on this blog many times. I'm sure if I picked through your posts with a fine toothed comb I could find a spelling errors or gramatical errors too, but I'm not quite as petty as that.

I hardly did that much comparing, I picked two races, where Rachel was ganged up on, and demonstrated how she was. Zenyatta has not had that, EVER. Is that her fault, no, it's the owner for putting her in races that have no competition in them. Why even race her, they might as well just retired her and let her stay at the track and gallop around for her fans. Why not just parade her, that is all they are doing right now, the only difference is they are getting paid for it and get to feed their ego as their mare races against horses who are clearly not in her class.

Owners and trainers have a right to be scared, because what Zenyatta does is break the hearts of those fillies she beats every single redundant start. A horse with no heart cannot race and against the competition she is facing that is all she does. She does it with ease and her rivals know it. Horses aren't humans but in that way they are. You get beat enough, especially when you try your hardest and after a while you stop wanting to fight. What is the use of her beating fillies that she has already broken?

Could she do the same to males, yes, it is quite possible, but as of now with the quality of horses that are filling up the handicap division, it is a lot less likely.

When Zenyatta is ganged up on, boxed in, forced to rate on a slow pace with quality speed, made to dodge traffic, go wide, and still make up ground to horses of QR, Rail Trip, and even yes RA's quality, I doubt she will be winning with her ears pricked.

You like to say we haven't seen her bottom, do we need a replay of the Clement Hircsh of last year? Zenyatta fully stretched to make up ground on a filly? Yes, she was much better than AC, who ran huge that day, but can she do the same thing when ganged up on by other colts when she has Quality Road to catch?

07 Jun 2010 9:59 PM
Vic S

Laz, im not totally sure and I know I'm almost sure to be wrong but it may be Skippy for at least the last top rated horse to be given +130 (in USA), Curlin carried 132 in the Jaguar Trophy but Dubai horses are less than 2nd rate.

07 Jun 2010 9:59 PM
mz

Laz: I remember, off the top of my head, Ta Wee carrying 140 in the Fall Highweight and 142 in the Interborough, both pretty good stakes in their days, and winning each time.  Ta Wee was a 4YO mare, in case you don't know her, and you can probably Youtube one of her races.  Great sprinter and sister to Dr. Fager.

I also remember that Forego regularly carried 130 or more whenever he ran.

But that's in the days when if you were a good horse in the running for HOY, you RAN against other good horses and were expected to carry a penalty for winning.  Now it appears to me that if a horse is given more than 124, everybody screams or ducks.  Bah!  What exactly is a HANDICAP race supposed to be?  I always thought the intent was to weigh the runners so as to have every horse in a dead heat in the end.

And I think it's a little too early to be writing off all of the 3YO and giving HOY to Zen already (especially when it seems to me she's only going through re-runs this year -- this is not "disrespect", it is simply a statement of fact).  There are a lot of good 3YO's out there who perhaps didn't make it to the Triple Crown and who knows, this might even be another 2YO HOY year.

To tell you the truth, I'm ZZZZZ because I'm bored with this same-old, same-old debate.  Get it done on the track, like racehorses are supposed to.

07 Jun 2010 10:01 PM
Pedigree Shelly

          Sorry Jason , I meant to say Mister Frisky won his first 13 races in PR ! :)

07 Jun 2010 10:01 PM
Citation

Lazmannick,

It's okay, I am sure you didn't mean to come off as denigrating Citation. Cy beat a total of six champions in his three year old campaign (First Flight, Coaltown, Armed, Delegate, Conniver, and Phalanx),and also Preakness winner Faultless, so it wasn't a weak year by any definition. To answer your question,in the US, the Fall Highweight Handicap two years ago saw Fabulous Strike assigned 136 pounds and win. The same race might have had a 130-assigned horse in it,but I don't remember exactly.(The winner carried 129.)

07 Jun 2010 10:09 PM
Matthew W

I mean, it's not like Jess is saying which race they're going in--and, yes, they don't assign weight anymore--but that's not on Zenyatta--her 129 is five lbs more than Quality Road just carried, and I sure didn't hear much mincing about that--they just don't do it anymore--I for one, would prefer she enter the Classic as an unbeaten mare--at the top of her game--heck, they did what all the writers were whining about last year (run in the Classic) and the same people gave her squat! For once, the most important horse on the planet is in SoCal--and some people are gripping! That's ok, too--whine on, seeya in Kentucky, and no excuses! And stow your HOY award!

07 Jun 2010 10:10 PM
Zookeeper

The problem with Zenyatta is that she is a California-based horse. If she was a horse based east of the Rockies, nobody would be claiming that she has to cross those darn mountains to qualify as a great horse with an illustrious career. It's as simple as that.

Now that I have finally come to that conclusion, I realize that NOTHING will satisfy the detractors other than the Z Team moving their whole outfit to the East Coast to race on their "hallowed dirt" for the rest of Zenyatta's career. If she's not theirs, she's not anything and her races have no value.

Frankly the arguments have become so ludicrous that I no longer care to try and refute the most absurd ones. I'll just keep enjoying her and so will her many, many fans.

Team Zenyatta is doing a great job and I'm glad they keep taking care of her the way they do.

Undefeated, going for 17 in a row, still racing at 6... it's fantastic!!!

07 Jun 2010 10:22 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Woohoo-Zookeeper's back !!!! That made my day.

07 Jun 2010 10:27 PM
Ranagulzion

Some very interesting racing is in store for the last half of the season, by my observation.  The Vanity is a paid maintenance work for "Big Z" (although I think that St Trinians will ensure that she earns her puse money).  Look for some serious action from "Queen" Zenyatta after the Vanity (even if Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra doesn't force the hand of the Mosses in the quest for HOTY honours).  As for "Rachel", she is evidently now ready to strut her stuff therefore the salty looking line up for the Stephen Foster (Blame, Battle Plan and Macho Again) should hold no terror.  On the contrary, this is her opportunity to re-enter the fray in defence of her HOTY title.  An impressive win here could afford her the luxury of retreating to the Distaff division to run up a winning sequence until the Breeder's Cup in November.

A couple of "exceptional ones" with unfinished business from last season are on the comeback trail to spice up things, namely: I Want Revenge and Big Drama (can't wait for their respective re-appearance).  Then there is the Godolphin band of classy ones such as Vineyard Haven, Desert Party, Regal Ransom and Girolamo all capable of shining among the best at Saratoga.

The 3YO group will sort itself out soon.  I fancy Super Saver to reassert himself but Looking At Lucky, Winslow Homer, Jackson Bend, Fly Down and perhaps a freshened up Sydney's Candy have legitimate shots at top honors in the division.  Mission Impazible from the Pletcher barn disappointed in the Derby but I expect him to make some noise in the mid-summer races.  Belmont winner Drosselmeyer remains unconvincing in the class department,although stamina-laiden.  In retrospect, I think that fate dealt us a horrible blow with the injury of Eskendereya before the Derby.  There is little doubt that he would have trampled all rivals in the triple crown series and broken the 32 years drought.  The palpable void felt in the staging of both the Preakness and Belmont is the one left by his absence (We miss you "Esky").  

When all is said and done, it appears at this point that all will have to bow to "His Royal Highness" Quality Road in 2010.  I'm hoping that he runs in the Jockey Club Gold Cup because a win there should make the BCC a mere surplus when HOTY considerations come into play.  The experiences of Big Brown in 2008 and Zenyatta in 2009 should be a reminder of the danger of leaving all your HOTY stocks in the Breeder's Cup Classic.    

07 Jun 2010 10:35 PM
ETHAN

I think that Drosselmeyer could kept up that pace for a long time. He won the race because he was the best 12 Furlong horse there. He won't probably go on to be like Summer Bird last year and dominate the division from here on  (but who knows maybe) he certainly won't be like Da'Tara and never do anything again.

Maybe they should keep running him in  the really long ones and point him towards the Breeders Cup Marathon

I wish they had more 12+ rcing on Dirt.

07 Jun 2010 10:38 PM
jayjay

GunBow : I pretty much agree with everything you said in your last post but as CV said, her critics will never be satisfied.

Here's the question though and I would like to hear the answer from her critics :

Why does Zenyatta have to go to the east coast ??  Why can't QR or whoever it is from the east coast that she needs to beat come to the west coast ??  The reason I'm asking is that you (the critics) wants her to travel, then face males on their home turf.  I just find it unjustifiably unfair that Zenyatta is being ask to do all this while the boys can sit at their home track and stay in their home track and beat up on weaker competition.

If the east coast are so "well travelled" and proven to win when they travel, then it shouldn't be an issue travelling to California to face real horses right ??  Or is it too much to ask for these east coast horses to fly over the rockies ??

Until the east coast dirt horses runs and wins on synthetics, they will never be considered a great horse, they will be a good dirt horse but never a great horse.  West coast synthetic horses have travelled to the east coast and won, east coast horses can't get over the rockies at all :)

Stay in your comfort zone, I don't really care but stop whining about west coast horses needing to fly over there because they already have and beat the ones that showed up, the ones that didn't well we all know what they are.

07 Jun 2010 10:43 PM
Ted from LA

Jason, Take it easy.  I'm a guest of yours here.  Use your Midwest manners.  129 pounds on Zenyatta?  Why don't they just have Mr. T ride her?  I pity the fool who gave her that much weight.

07 Jun 2010 10:47 PM
Karen in Texas

Lazmannick---Both Cigar and Skip Away carried 130lbs. several times. Each of them carried 130lbs. while winning the Massachusetts Handicap, a gr.3 race. Curlin carried 132lbs. in his prep race in Dubai, the Jaguar Trophy Handicap.

07 Jun 2010 10:58 PM
Karen in Texas

Laz---Skip Away also carried 131lbs. in the 1998 Iselin Handicap, gr.2, which he won.

07 Jun 2010 11:06 PM
GunBow

Laz:

I know Skip Away carried 130 or more on two occasions in 98', and won both.  Curlin carried 130 lbs in the Jaguar Trophy race in Dubai, but that wasn't an important race.  The filly Sky Beauty carried 130 lbs in 1994.

07 Jun 2010 11:06 PM
GunBow

I think 131 lbs for Zenyatta in the Vanity would have better fit with historic norms.  That's what Gamely carried when she set the record for weight carried by a Vanity winner.  131 would also represent a 2 lbs increase from last year's Vanity.

07 Jun 2010 11:09 PM
Pedigree Shelly

           Since we're all talking about winning streaks ,I remember back in the 80's ,my Uncle,Stephen R Mick , trained a horse named Wing to Wing to win 11 consecutive races ! This was at Penn National ,located between Harrisburg,Pa and Philly. Wing To Wing by Winged T by ( Tom Fool )set the record at PN for consecutive races won ! I was given one of his horseshoes for good luck ! He was a tough old claimer , luckily he ended up at a retirement home :)

07 Jun 2010 11:16 PM
Footlick

Laz- I have to admit I expected 130 or 131.  So, I think her assignment is slightly low.  But I mentioned before the Met Mile that I thought 124 was too low.  It was a gift.  This has nothing to do with Quality Road, whom I respect, but has everything to do the NY men who set the weights.  I remember when a highweight in a New York handicap had to be at least 126.  Obviously not anymore or else I would like to know who the highweight for the Met was if it wasn't Quality Road?  Maybe they thought Zenyatta was coming and gave her 126-lol.  Oh wait, they didn't apply for stalls online-lol again.

07 Jun 2010 11:23 PM
jayjay

LDP : I wasn't correcting your spelling, you totally gave the horse a new name.

Again, I don't get your comments, why are you trying to theorize something that can happen to a race and using it as an argument to bash Zenyatta ???  No one told RA to race near the lead, that's how she is and her style of racing.  How can you even argue that that what makes RA better than Zenyatta ???  Zenyatta gives her opponents at least 6 to 7 lengths headstart, no one in recent memory has ever won this many races and running all of it from way back.  That's pretty much the same as being banged up, squeeze and forced to stop and be dead last, isn't it ??

Come on now, come up with something that is real.  You're making me "imagine" races that will never happen lol.

Also, do you think it's fair that Rachel Alexandra will be carrying 124 lbs against that G3 Fleur De Lis field ??  She should carry at least 135 since she's the reigning HOTY and she's beaten males in the past.  What do YOU think ??  I can't wait to see your reply :)

07 Jun 2010 11:56 PM
Draynay

I am so sick of this Zenyatta stuff I could scream.  30 days before the Classic I will put 5,000 in cash for Jason to hold for ANYONE who wants to bet on Zenyatta to win.  Whoever makes the bet with me I will give a thousand dollar to just for Zenyatta showing up and getting in the gate in the Classic. So the most you can lose if she shows is 4,000.  Put up or shut up.  I am tired of hearing about a horse who isn't even going to show.  The horse is average on dirt and Mr. Moss knows it and so does his trainer.  They will not leave California the rest of the year.  They both know she is no where near good enough to beat top male dirt horses.  All this Zenyatta BS has got to stop you all just sound silly.  Put up or shut up.

08 Jun 2010 12:10 AM
LAZMANNICK

Thanks for the weight carrying info gals and guys.

08 Jun 2010 12:14 AM
Matthew W

We're talking about a thing of the past--certainly Zenyatta should be carrying 134 lbs--not gonna ever happen! You could blame the late great bobby Frankel, who mastered the art of publicly chastising the racing handicapper in the media--he was the first to really get a pull in weights on a regular basis--now, handicap races are a joke--at least Zenyatta gives big weight to a top filly, maybe the Ladies BC favorite--over a track that has been playing good for speed--every time you come from way out of it, giving weight, it's never a sure thing...

08 Jun 2010 12:27 AM
LAZMANNICK

Pedigree Shelly

You're absolutely right about Mr. Frisky......he raced in Puerto Rico not South America.  I read some stuff about him today.  His career was greatly affected by a throat abscess, which explains why he ran such a lackluster performance in the Derby and the Preakness.   He is unique in that no other horse has had such an extensive undefeated streak going into the KD.  Of course, that year the three year-old crop was very deep with Unbridled and Summer Squall and Pleasant Tap, etc., and yet Mr. Frisky was held in such high regard that he was 9-5 in the Derby.  Apparently the abscess was so bad it was life threatening and kept him away from the races for 15 months.  He was never the same again.  Of the five major streaks in N/A since Citation including Pepper's Pride, Cigar, Zenyatta and Mr. Frisky, it seems that his is the least talked about. LOL

08 Jun 2010 12:31 AM
LAZMANNICK

Draynay

If your so sure of yourself why don't you add an extra zero?  You might actually get a few takers.  That's if you're so sure of yourself.

08 Jun 2010 12:33 AM
Footlick

LDP- I was going to comment on your whole post, but then I thought why bother.  It's the same blog as you usually blog about the glories of Rachel and the deficiencies of Zenyatta.  But I do have to say I would love to see the other horses gang up on Zenyatta at the back of the pack.  There is an effective strategy.  I wonder why nobody has done that?  Also, Mike Smith said he had at least another gear in the Clement Hirsch.  So, according to him, she didn't run full out.  Great finishing splits though.  The melodrama of the Woodward was nice too.  I could see Rachel tied to the railroad tracks by Da'Tara and Pass the Point........... ;-)

08 Jun 2010 12:49 AM
Footlick

Laz- Don't forget Buckpasser's 15 in a row!

08 Jun 2010 12:53 AM
Footlick

Or Dudley Doright and Snidley Whiplash at the Woodward.  Instead of Little Nell, it could be Little Rachel :-)

08 Jun 2010 12:58 AM
CV

"When Zenyatta is ganged up on, boxed in, forced to rate on a slow pace with quality speed, made to dodge traffic, go wide, and still make up ground to horses of QR, Rail Trip, and even yes RA's quality, I doubt she will be winning with her ears pricked."

LDP  07 Jun 2010 9:59 PM

LDP, with due respect, your temper is flaring and getting in the way of common sense throughout your entire post.

In fact, Rachel Alexandra herself was not ganged up on, boxed in, forced to rate on a slow pace with quality speed, made to dodge traffic, go wide, and still make up ground TO HORSES LIKE QUALITY ROAD, RAIL TRIP OR EVEN HERSELF. Yes, she certainly deserved HOTY, but she didn't face anyone with the ability of Quality Road, Rail Trip, or herself.

I'm sure you also know that at least half of Zenyatta's races, maybe more, she had no business winning because of their slow pace and her closing style. You can see what a crawling pace did to Blind Luck in the Hollywood Oaks.

I know, that you know, a slow pace is deadly for deep closers...except for a mare named Zenyatta. No matter how wide she has to go, no matter how slow the pace is, no matter how she has been boxed in (Santa Margarita) she has found a way to win. With her running style, that is rare and remarkable.

It is stunning that you and so many here appear blind to that phenomenon...shouting instead that Zenyatta must do more, more, more and bashing her if she doesn't meet your artificial "standards."

When you think about it, we're lucky to see Zen racing as a 6-year-old. How often does that happen now to champion horses? Answer: never.

08 Jun 2010 1:22 AM
Rechelle

jayjay - I care about all horses!  I would love to jump onto the Zenyatta bandwagon but it's hard when after she beat the boys, she stepped back down in class by running against the fillies.  I don't think that if she went east that if she ran in filly/mare races that she'd face much competition, but she should be facing males, either in California or out east. It's not that I don't like Zenyatta, it's more that I really do not like what her connections are doing with her! I think she is incredibly talented and that she should be racing against tougher competition. I believe that they are not doing her any favors right now by running her against the girls. If she goes into the Breeders Cup Classic again, she's going to have to contend with Quality Road and most likely I Want Revenge will be there as well.  Two talented colts who aren't going to be easy to beat (ok, for sure one and most likely two) and I just think that racing against the girls won't prepare her for what is coming.

As for Rachel, the reason I'm giving her connections a bit of a pass is because of how very poorly she started the season off.  For a horse that never lost last season, to have 2 losses in a row, if I were them, I might put her against the fillies just to get her a win.  Her confidence will go up after she gets that.  However, I suspect she'll be in the Foster, but I'm not sure that is the right race for her. Right now, I will admit that I do not think Rachel can beat Zenyatta, she might be able to contend later in the season, but right now, she's not proven to be fit and ready. That is the only reason that her connections get a pass from me.  Zenyatta has shown that she *IS* the same horse as she has been the last two years, so why run again in a race she's won twice?

08 Jun 2010 1:34 AM
CV

"I am so sick of this Zenyatta stuff I could scream."

Draynay  08 Jun 2010 12:10 AM  

So stop your obsession with her and find a life.

08 Jun 2010 1:44 AM
Secretariat

Zenyatta is your worst nightmare, Draynay.

She always has been.

Zenyatta is like Mohammed Ali.

Mohammed Ali was hated by many boxing enthusiasts because he was so good.

Mohammed Ali would run his mouth and then back it up in the ring.

This started a hatred for Mohammed Ali. The fans wanted a boxer that could shut Mohammed Ali up. They wanted someone to knock him out!

Sound familiar, Draynay?

You want someone to knock out Zenyatta?

It ain't gonna happen!

Guess what, Draynay?

Those same fans that hated Mohammed Ali when he was 3x World Champion, are now loving the guy and have more "respect" for him than ever. They admire him for what he did for the sport.

08 Jun 2010 2:45 AM
jayjay

Minor correction : BH reported that Fleur De Lis is a G3 but it is actually a G2.  I thought they downgraded the race but apparently it's still a G2 (verified the same report in the CD website) :

"Rachel Alexandra has been assigned 118 pounds for the Stephen Foster, in which she would be competing against older males, and 124 for the $200,000-added Fleur De Lis (gr. III) for fillies and mares. The 4-year-old filly is also being considered for the Ogden Phipps Handicap (gr. I) at Belmont Park, for which she was assigned 123 pounds, and the Obeah (gr. III) at Delaware Park, where she would carry 117 pounds."

They'll probably go to Delaware at the last minute lol.

08 Jun 2010 3:45 AM
GunBow

jayjay:

Ever since I started following this sport, I've heard East Coast folks demanding that some good Cali horse come East while rejecting the need for the top Eastern horses to go West.  From what others told me at the time, this has been going on since big-time racing began in California in the 1930s.

Of course, the inequality in the demands was much worse prior to 1984 and the advent of the Breeder's Cup.  Since most of the pre-84' "championship" races were in the East, it was a virtual neccessity for Cali horses to travel to get any consideration for year end honors(Ack Ack a notable exception).  On the other hand, there was little if any pressure on the top Eastern horses to prove themselves out West, even though the money was often superior.

Over the years, I have learned to dismiss the demands for Cali horses to travel East as the remnants of this age-old bias.  And my instictive response to the calls for Zenyatta to go East (" in order to prove herself") is to reject it as just more of the same.  However, what makes Zenyatta's case different from past cases is the presence of synthetic surfaces at all 3 of the major SoCal tracks.

If the SoCal tracks were still dirt, I would stand up strongly and declare all the demands on Zenyatta to run in the East as hypocrisy.  However, I just don't think we can dismiss the fact that Zenyatta only has 2 victories on either dirt or turf, the two surfaces over which all the past greats ran.  

Because synthetics are so new, it makes placing Zenyatta in historical perspective a little more challenging.  When people wonder how Zenyatta would do against Ruffian or Susan's Girl, they are imagining races not over synthetic but over the dirt surfaces these latter two fillies actually ran; because Zenyatta is the first, and currently only, great horse to have run almost entirely on synthetic, it makes her an historical outlier, and makes comparisons difficult.  

Perhaps after 25 more years of synthetic races, this will be much less of a concern.  Yet, what if in 5 years only a few small tracks even have synthetic surfaces, and synthetics turn out to be but a blip in the history of racing?  How much can be concluded about a horse that ran only twice(thus far) on either dirt of turf?  While it appears that Zenyatta likes dirt at least as much as synthetic, there isn't alot of actual proof.  Yes, good is good on any surface, but don't we make clear distinctions between great dirt fillies and great turf fillies?  So, if synthetics fade from the landscape and Zenyatta ends up the only great synthetic horse, are we simply to ignore the fact that she only ran two times over the surfaces that have accounted for 99.9% of the races ever run?  As an amateur historian of the sport, these are the questions I've been asking myself(and I don't like asking myself these questions because I consider myself a huge Zenyatta fan).

Having said this, the fact Hollywood Park's Cushion Track is so similar to dirt does lessen my own personal demand for Zenyatta to run on dirt(outside of Cali, obviously).  Given this is my first full year living in SoCal since the installation of synthetics, I have been able to see for myself what racing on Pro-Ride and Cushion Track is like.  Pro-Ride is quite different from dirt.  As for Cushion, if I didn't know Hollywood had a Cushion Track, I would assume it was the same dirt surface I watched races over growing up.

08 Jun 2010 5:01 AM
LDP

Jayjay,

My point is nobody has really tried to make a race as hard as possible for Zenyatta. When it was made hard for her, the Clement Hirsch we saw her really dig down. My point is what do you think will happen when she is ganged up on with tactics used to make it hard for a closer? What if the field boxes her in, what if a horse like QR slows down the pace and she has to come wide and running against him when she could barely catch AC in that race? She wasn't even gange up on there. My point is RA has been ganged up on Zenyatta has not.

And yes as of now I think the weight is fair. RA has shown she is not to par with her 09 self, while Zenyatta just keeps on winning. If RA were tearing up the track I'd say let her carry the weight, and when she gets back to form I will say let her carry weight. As of now she has not show she is ready. You just told me to leave last year behind, when that is what your basing your judgement on weight off of. If you weren't you would see that as of her two races this year no handicapper would be giving her over 125lbs. Maybe you should get over last year too.

08 Jun 2010 7:02 AM
draynot

"you all just sound silly."

Draynay 08 Jun 2010 12:10 AM

Talk about the kettle calling the pot black!!

08 Jun 2010 8:48 AM
berttheclock

Almost 400 comments and Ted from LA still hasn't written about the day he bet Phar Lap.  You want a weight carrying horse?  Try Phar Lap.

BTW, quit knocking Z's run in the Clement Hirsch - The configuration of DM with the egg shaped far turn doesn't fit closers.  Sandy Hawley once spoke of the difficulties of even trying to close in 6 and a half races.  He said if you turn your horse loose too early, you'll end up in the grandstands. Too late and you will miss. Timing must be perfect for a long close. Smith's timing was to perfection for the great Lady.

08 Jun 2010 9:08 AM
Vic S

Draynay, put up or shut up.  The only thing you ever put up is losses when it comes to your handicapping, excuses are for losers.  Put up or shut up.  Not many people can just throw around 5 grand, especially the younger ones like myself, I'm 20.  Wouldn't you know it though I know more than 99% percent of the people on here and I've known more than you since I was a kid.  Put up or shut up, I just see a big 0 next to your name.  Zenyatta did beat top male dirt horses last year - Summer Bird - best Dirt horse MALE OR FEMALE, besides herself, in America.  Rachel Alexandra hasn't done shit this year which in fact is what I predicted.  As soon as they said they were done in September I said almost immediately on one of these blogs, when your horse is running you don't stop, something these trainers now adays are to damn afraid of to do when it comes to "saving" a horse for next year.  The only thing they were saving Rachel from was a sure as can be loss to any horse beyond a 1 1/8. FACT.  My genius proved out this year, the horse got a break, got old, and in actuality was happier being a horse than racer and she lost the will that she had last year ala Flower Alley ala so many horses before her.  FACT.  Put up or shut up.  When I say put up, put up an actual argument that isn't based on made up stuff in your head.  Summer Bird was just starting to get good at the Belmont, he bounced BIG in the Haskell and was a tired horse, Rachel beat nothing and no one when at THEIR best - prove me wrong.  Thanks.  : )  How many of Rachel's so called great male handicap horses as you so proclaim then have even won a race this year??  Let alone graded stakes race?? None.  Only one horse of note that she beat even went on to do any good last year - Summer Bird.  Zenyatta beat the champion Grass Horse, Champion Older Male, Champion Three Year Old Colt - Rachel at the time of her winning, would have beat NO HORSE that earned a championship, she beat a weak Summer Bird in early Summer that is it.  Learn horseracing, seriously.  Even Rachel fans know you know NOTHING.  Stop saying "put up or shut up" or I'm just going to make you look foolish again.

08 Jun 2010 10:13 AM
Slew

I must be a Phillistine to even suggest that a true horse racing fan might love both Zenyatta and RA.  I can't criticize either one, and I have too much respect for either to bash either one.  I also respect their connections for keeping them on the track so that I can so often enjoy the fluidity of motion and the raw power each possesses.  I pity the folks who have a lack of vision when it comes to either mare.  Even Red Pollard could see how short-sighted so many people are.  RA and Zen are each becoming legends.

Now...I thought this blog was about the Belmont.   The top horses in my sight with class AND stamina for the rest of the year are LAL and First Dude.  Eventually they'll each add greatness in breeding.  For now...I can't wait to watch them compete this year.  And I'm praying Stately Victor comes into his own soon.  I don't think the Blue Grass was a fluke, and I hope he does better next out.

08 Jun 2010 10:21 AM
Slew

I wanted to add..enjoyed the Epsom Derby.  Workforce was truly outstanding (was missing St Nick and Pimpernel though), but At First Sight was entered as a rabbit and he was fantastic setting the pace.  I really liked him.

08 Jun 2010 10:35 AM
Leon

Laz:

I don't know how many have been retired. That's why I'm asking how many have won.

CV:

Zen's connections have already announced the Gold Cup is NOT in their plans. That's why I made the comment. I'll retract the comment if they actually decide to run.

ZOOKEEPER:

Please answer this question:

In terms of competition, betting value and pure horsemanship, where would you rather see Zenyatta:

a-Stephen Foster

b-Hollywood Gold Cup

c-Vanity

If you don't think it would be better for the sport and for her own legacy to show up in the first two races, it just shows how biased you can be.

How can there be nothing wrong with the best horse in the country running against nobodies, in a race where she will prove nothing, especially when she's sound and in great shape?

08 Jun 2010 10:59 AM
Draynay

Hey Vic, Blah blah blah ! Let me know when Zenyatta beats ANY male on dirt anywhere !!!  Put up or shut up.

NOBODY cares about plastic wins.

08 Jun 2010 11:15 AM
Zookeeper

Leon,

You are absolutely right, I'm completely biased. I think the sun rises and shines right in the middle of Zenyatta's big butt. Are you happy now?

08 Jun 2010 11:16 AM
Footlick

Slew- YouTube the Prix du Jockey Club also and watch Lope de Vega.  Another great performance.

08 Jun 2010 11:19 AM
Draynay

Secretariat, WHAT?  You know nothing about Ali.  NOTHING.  Ali took on the best Norton, Frazier, Foreman. He ducked no one.  To mention Zenyatta and Ali in the same sentence is a joke and should NEVER EVER be done.  Let me know when Zenyatta leaves the State of California....zzzzzz.zzzzzz..zzzzz

08 Jun 2010 11:20 AM
LAZMANNICK

Footlick

You're right and Buckpasser's streak was probably as tough or tougher than any of the others.  I also didn't mention Personal Ensign, but what I really meant was those streaks that hit 16 which the five that I named did.

Four more days and the fun begins.  You know, occasionally I catch an English soccer games on Saturdays, not every Saturday, but probably every two weeks or so.  However, all joking aside, when the World Cup is on I usually watch as many games as I can.  It's the enormity of the event, the crazy fans, sort of like the Olympics.  Hope you enjoy.  LOL

08 Jun 2010 11:26 AM
Secretariat

Gunbow,

Go pound sand.

Your elongated opinion is meaningless.

Listen and listen good:

Zenyatta went east and "every" east coast trainer who had a Grade I filly/mare scattered like cockroaches. They found the nearest dark space where no one could find them.

Game over!

08 Jun 2010 11:38 AM
LAZMANNICK

LDP.....your comments:

"When Zenyatta is ganged up on, boxed in, forced to rate on a slow pace with quality speed, made to dodge traffic, go wide, and still make up ground to horses of QR, Rail Trip, and even yes RA's quality, I doubt she will be winning with her ears pricked.

It sounds like you just described her BCC.  The mile in that race was slow.....1.36, and she was hopelessly out of it.  You described her finish to a tee and forgot to mention that she did her final quarter in 23.1 in a 2.00.3 race.  And when she came back to the grandsatand she wasn't breathing hard or sweating.  Maybe we should describe it as a Rachelesque performance.  LOL

08 Jun 2010 11:43 AM
Footlick

Leon- I have always said that I want to see her in the Hollywood Gold Cup.  Rail Trip would be a more formidable foe than anything in the Foster.  And Blame's trainer said after his comeback race that the Foster was his next race unless Zenyatta shows up.  So if she did show for the Foster it would possibly lose Blame.  But, I'm not Zenyatta's owner nor her trainer.  So, whatever I want is not relevant.  I'll watch her give St Trinians 9 lbs at 9 furlongs and see the outcome.  If the field is short, it will be more difficult for Zenyatta, and we just saw Blind Luck lose to an inferior horse.  Short fields are dangerous for closers.  Shirreffs said the same thing.  But, why is there no outcry for trainers and owners of top fillies/mares to go challenge Zenyatta?  I wonder why they would not want to go to a handicap where Zenyatta is carrying 129.  If St Trinians is getting 9 lbs, the others would probably get at least that also.  But nobody stepped up except for St Trinians. I think it should be obvious that Zenyatta doesn't ship well.  The reluctance to ship, the extra recovery time before her first work after the Apple Blossom all points to that.  These people know this horse better than anyone.  I would love to see her in the Hollywood Gold Cup and maybe they will relent if she wins the Vanity easily.  It's a longshot at best though, I will admit.  But I'm not going to demand that she runs in certain races, just like I'm not going to demand that Rachel runs in certain races, or that Quality Road runs in certain races.  Mr Pletcher mapped out a light campaign for him, designed to get him to the BC.  Zenyatta's people are doing what they feel is right to get her to the BC and to support California racing.  If you don't like that, then you don't.  Let's see what transpires for the rest of the year.

08 Jun 2010 11:48 AM
Footlick

I was in Spain for one World Cup, and France for another and you couldn't go anywhere without the matches being on the TV's and everyone is as wild in the bars as they are in the stands.  It is an absolute extravaganza.

08 Jun 2010 11:50 AM
LAZMANNICK

Leo:

From what I can see, Gio Ponti has started twice, both head defeats, Einstein raced in the Clark Hdcp, 3rd to Blame by 1/2L, I believe Awesome Gem  was unplaced in his last at Lone Star, are the only ones beside Zen who have started since last year’s BCC.  The rest have either been retired or haven't started yet.  I’m not sure about Richard’s Kid or Twice Over although I think they are slated to start in the near future.

08 Jun 2010 11:57 AM
Secretariat

Draynay,

Zenayatta is a two-time champion (Ali).

Quality Road is the challenger (Norton, Frazier, Foreman, etc)

If Pletcher thinks Quality Road is better than Zenyatta, prove it.

Pletcher shouldn't be afraid of anything. If he thinks he can beat Zenyatta, have him ship Quality Road out west.

Come on out, we're waiting.

Note:

In Quality Road, you have a horse that is not that intelligent (AKA: nothing between the ears). If he does come out, I hope he can get into the gate

08 Jun 2010 12:01 PM
mz

Hey Footlick: some to Toronto.  Guaranteed you will find at least one bar filled with fans for each and every team in the World Cup.  When their team wins, we get cars driving up and down the streets waving flags and dancing all over the place.** Fun!

**only problem this year: unfortunately, we have the G20 Summit and fascism reigns in terms of security, locking down whole big swaths of the City. Can't get in without a pass.  Seems to me that they're trying to make us all feel like South Africa, all right --South Africa during apartheid!

08 Jun 2010 12:16 PM
Footlick

Laz- Richard's Kid started twice this year, winning once and then being unplaced in the World Cup.  Twice Over has  started in the World Cup only, also finishing unplaced.

08 Jun 2010 12:17 PM
gw_bushwacker

leon,

You completely ignore the fact that whereever Zenyatta has shown up since whipping the best out there at the time in the Classic others (i.e. RA at Oaklawn) just duck the race. Ask yourself why the competition doesn't go to her? She is the only undefeated multiple G1 winner in the older division(s) left out there. If they had any guts at all they'd be chasing her down no matter where she runs!!

Why is it that after every major race when draynay embarrasses himself by bragging about another "sure fire winner" and they lose he goes back to the bash Zenyatta crap? Here's a little man just hoping and praying Zenyatta loses sometime so he can't spew his toxic junk. I wouldn't be surprised if he worked for BP.

08 Jun 2010 12:19 PM
Atthebarn2

The problem with you Draynay is you are a liar and a blowhard cheat. You made a bunch of promises on here before. They were total horse puckey. So why don't you just slither away.

It's a writers job to write about a subject good or bad.  Even writers get negative sometimes but that is part of the job and part of drumming up business.

Now blog writers not with a legitimate paper or magazine like the bloodhorse and so on? They are the worst. Just full of bull people who talk about subjects that most of them dont know about in the real world.

As for the rest of you fans? and i

use that term real loose.

No wonder racing is in trouble. With fans like a lot of you who needs enemies? I think you all may be closet haters of the game and not even that much in the closet.

I can see trying to make improvements on the game. Making suggestions to keep it alive and to grow it. I can see constructive criticism.  I can see supporting it but I sure cant see beating up on an animal or even her or his owners or trainers. It's not just negative stuff you all write its mean, hateful and nasty stuff.

These are the people who bring these horses to you all. You all don't pay any of the bills, unless you gamble and they win a small percent of that bet through the purse. Us in racing have all the risk and the reward is getting less all the time. Not just moneywise but the respect for horse racing. And these comments show why. and they are from fans?

A bunch of you blather on about needing to get more fans blah, blah blah. well if this is how fans act about a sport they say they love then I prefer less fans.

To me its pretty disgusting and despicable to hear race horse fans talk about race horses and racetrackers the way you people do on here. These horses run their hearts out, trainers and their staff work their butts off, jocks and excercise kids risk their lives every time they climb on one and owners put their heart.soul and pocketbook on the line every day. You all just sit there and yap, be negative and gripe.

I'm startin to think that you all have such crummy lives that your big thrill is to come on here as someone anonymous and try to make yourselves look better. Make your life seem good or make others seem worse or make other people feel like cr**.  You wouldn't want people questioning your every move in your job. And LDP I've read where you griped about your teachers in school trying to tell you what to do and thinking they know everything. Well you got some hard lessons to learn because guess what? They do know more than you.

All the rest of you? The people who own and train these horses do know whats best for the horses and themselves. It may not be what the fans want but I really believe that if this is an example of fans, then the fans don't deserve better and don't want to do anything but b****h and moan.

Now I'll jump off the soapbox get back to the actual job of training and working with these animals and the race track folks that I really do love and care about.

You all just lay in wait for your next attack and your next victim. Yep thats real productive and living life to the fullest. You all must be so happy and proud.

08 Jun 2010 12:24 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

This is the hypocrisy of people that are blindly biased (including myself)……You think that Zen should be assigned 132 to 135 lbs. for the Vanity, and yet from what Jayjay reported, Rachel is assigned 118 lbs. for the Stephen Foster, in which she would be competing against older males, 124 for the Fleur De Lis, 123 for the Ogden Phipps Handicap and 117 for the Obeah at Delaware Park.  DO YOU NOT THINK THAT OUR REIGNING HOY SHOULD BE ASSIGNED MORE, like say at least scale in the Stephen Foster Hdcp., at least another 3 lbs. for the Odgen Phipps Hdcp., another 4 lbs. for the Fleur De Lis Hdcp., and the Obeah, a G-3 allowance stake should not even be considered.  It is clear that you believe that Rachel is better than Zen so why the double standard?

08 Jun 2010 12:29 PM
gw_bushwacker

Rechelle said:

"I would love to jump onto the Zenyatta bandwagon but it's hard when after she beat the boys, she stepped back down in class by running against the fillies."

Then she said in almost the same breath:

"As for Rachel, the reason I'm giving her connections a bit of a pass is because of how very poorly she started the season off."

Rechelle 08 Jun 2010 1:34 AM

RINGGGGG  RINGGGGG  RINGGGGG goes the wake up alarm!!

WAKE UP Rechelle!! RA stepped down in class and got her butt kicked. She dropped back to G2 or less races and still got whipped. You ridicule Zenyatta for "stepping down" in class but give RA a pass for the same thing? Are you related to draynay and carry the same can't put 2 and 2 together genes?  

08 Jun 2010 12:34 PM
LAZMANNICK

mz

I take it you know all about St. Clair Ave. West.  Many, many, many years ago when I lived there my parent's used to take us out by Earlscourt for home made Italian ice cream, the best in the city.  It's one of the places to be when the World Cup is on (except when Italy loses).  The Danforth is great too.  LOL

08 Jun 2010 12:36 PM
Footlick

mz- I've never been to Toronto.  I hear it is an amazing city.  Is that where you are?  I'm not planning on going anywhere this year as I have to concentrate on my art commissions, but I would love to see it sometime.  Maybe one day I'll get up there.

Security lockdowns are inevitable.  I've experienced them in London, Barcelona and Buenos Aires.  I'm surprised there aren't more in BsAs.  There are many protests every day, and at least one gets violent.  It was wild to see that everyday.

08 Jun 2010 12:40 PM
Jason Shandler

Hey Atthebarn: How is your day going?

08 Jun 2010 12:48 PM
Jason Shandler

zzz...zzz..zzz. Oh, Im sorry. I must have dozed off for a bit. I noticed some of you were talking about the World Cup.

08 Jun 2010 12:51 PM
Footlick

Atthebarn2- Thank you.  Well said.

08 Jun 2010 12:52 PM
jayjay

Here's a quote from Asmussen about RA's recent work :

Rachel Alexandra, who is trained by Steve Asmussen, worked in fractional times of :12.60 and :25 and she galloped out five furlongs in 1:02.80.

" The weather’s great this morning – it’s a nice cool morning, " said Asmussen. "Everything seemed very comfortable."

Sounds like a confident trainer?  I don't know but I do hope she is okay healthwise.  I've no doubt it's the FDL that they'll run in, they're probably thinking about the high weight of 124 lbs or she really isn't ready as they thought she would be.  The other option is the G3 Delaware race in which she got 117 lbs!  What a joke for the reigning HOTY to get that kind of weight and people complain about Zenyatta getting 129 in a G1 race lol.

I get the feeling that she might not even run this weekend because  her works are inconsistent, it would be a really bad scenario for them if she loses again.  

08 Jun 2010 12:57 PM
Draynay

Atthebarn2, first, so that you don't look like a complete liar why don't you show me all the MEAN,HATEFUL, and NASTY stuff I have EVER posted.  Second, how dare you come on here and tell me about the poor horses that are pampered and fed and bathed daily. I have donated to many womens charities over the years and I can tell you there are thousands of homeless women around the country that WISH they were treated as well as many of these horses.  So cut the garbage about how we "talk" about horses.  Last, you know nothing about sports and have never played sports so don't pretend to come on here and tell me how I should or can enjoy any sport.  You want to know why you can't attract young people to the sport let me tell you why because you can't cheer and you can't boo.  What kind of sport is that for a fan ???  I can't tell you how many times I have had to tell someone to stick it in their ear because I was cheering my horse home and the guy next to me had another horse and told me to keep it down.  I laugh every time and tell them to stick it or move.  And now I am telling you, STICK IT OR MOVE.

08 Jun 2010 1:02 PM
Atthebarn2

It was going good. Even got a live one or two later in the week.

Then I read this junk and I lose my temper. A couple of my trainer friends say don't read that junk youll just get mad. Racing does enough to make us mad like mistakes in tests that quarantine the barn and false positives and bad stewards calls, but then to read this garbage?

I like reading your stories boy, but you sure do stir up a hornets nest. The stick don't need much stirrin though.

Talkin about soccer I saw where some crowd stampeded and beat up players and crushed some against the fence. Sounds like a sport just right for folks like Draynay and some of the others.

Now I read you like hockey and I don't know much but it seems like soccer on ice skates to me. Only the boys pound the dickens out of each other and don't they throw rats and stuff on the ice? I watched a few times and something about a blue line high stickin and de icing?   Too confusing for me.

08 Jun 2010 1:06 PM
Jason Shandler

Thanks for the compliments Atthebarn. Its always nice to have peiple refer to your work as "junk" and "garbage." You're too kind.

Hockey is soccer on ice? lol. That may be more laughable than anything else you said. Hockey players are some of the toughest athletes in the world. And most are likable guys without pretense and all the other garbage you get from many athletes in other professional sports. Try watching sometime.

Finally, instead of spewing your anger, why dont you come on here and give us some of those "live" horses running this week. That would be a lot more useful to us.

08 Jun 2010 1:11 PM
Atthebarn2

Draynay when you call a horse a joke. That is over the line. They're poor defenseless animals not able to talk for themself.

When you constantly talk about trainers and owners calling them names and questioning every move they make and actually writing about their honesty then that is what trash does.

As for playing a sport? How do you know what I done in my life? I was an all state three sport athlete. That doesn't have anything to do with nothin.

You are full of bull and you are a joke. Nobody said you couldnt yell and cheer for your horses. But the stuff you write on here and say about people dont do that. Trust me, it dont impress no one.

08 Jun 2010 1:17 PM
LDP

Laz,

Did you not read my last post, as of now RA is not the better horse. If she came back the same horse as last year, yes, she should be weighted, but she has not. She has yet to win, though she has been close in both starts. Based on THIS YEAR, she should not get the weight. If she wins this next by 10, then yes in her next she should get weight, but now, no.

Zenyatta has comeback the same, she has beaten males so why is she getting the same weight she won with last year when it is a handicappers job to try and bring all horses to the wire as closely as possible? That means, since he failed at that last year, and Zenyatta is still the same horse, running against only 3 others this time she should get MORE than she had last year

Also had she entered the Foster she would've gotten the same weight break as RA, since both are considered older females. If people want her to carry less then why not let her go to races where she would carry less.

08 Jun 2010 1:18 PM
mr pibb

LMAO gw-bushwacker!!

Some people here are so into arguing anything they say some things contradicting what they just said. The draynays of the world just can't help themselves, it must give them a feeling of minor signifigance as opposed to being wrong and insignifigant most or all of the time.

08 Jun 2010 1:19 PM
Atthebarn2

Jason I said I think of you as a real writer. You write for the bloodhorse and I like most of your stories. You can interview and talk to people in racing. You know what I meant.

I was jokin about the hockey. I dont know much about it and said I dont understand it.

Anger, well yes did you get angry when certain people say stuff about your work? Did you just get angry when you thought I was puttin your writin down?

As for givin you my live one? It may or may not be live to anyone but me and my owners. I hope it is. But why would I tell you now just to be made a joke of. I thought you were askin sincere like. So instead Ill just take my friends advice. Hasta La vista.

08 Jun 2010 1:22 PM
LAZMANNICK

Atthebarn2

You had some of my sympathy's until you mentioned soccer.  Then you started to upset me.  When you mentioned hockey my blood pressure went through the roof.  GO BACK TO FINGER LAKES!!!

08 Jun 2010 1:25 PM
Zookeeper

Atthebarn2,

Great post! I love your passion and I'm just hoping the Z connections know nothing about some of the comments on here. However not all of us fans are bashing. Overall, most of the comments are positive. It's just that the "know-it-all" are so much more insulting, on both side of the argument.

Most of us appreciate the work and dedication involved in getting these horses to any race, never mind winning one. (16 in a row is mind boggling to anybody with a shred of intelligence.) The rest are really irrelevant no matter how important they think they are.

08 Jun 2010 1:26 PM
Atthebarn2

Also Jason I was talking about the comments of a few folks on here not what you wrote.

These comments turned ugly and vicious and you talk about my anger?

Like I said I dont know what Draynays comments about charity work have to do with the price of eggs.

08 Jun 2010 1:28 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

I get your point.  Now please get mine.  Based on THIS YEAR and the two extremely weak races she has won, should Zen be assigned 132 or more pounds?  I don't think so.  If you think so then you are stating that the two races she won were against top class fields.  and if you're going to go back to last year for Zen to justify assigning that kind of weight, then go back that far for Rachel and assign her a lot of weight also.  This is what I mean by a double standard.

08 Jun 2010 1:28 PM
CV

"What if the field boxes her in, what if a horse like QR slows down the pace and she has to come wide and running against him when she could barely catch AC in that race?" --LDP

Your hot temper, deep love for Rachel Alexandra and resentment of Zen's success this year must have boiled over for you to make such an intellectually dishonest statement.

You have watched the 2009 Hirsch. Clearly, her biggest issue that day was jockey error. Mike Smith didn't start her run early enough and (nearly) left her too much to do. EVERYBODY knows that LDP, including Smith, because he commented on it afterward and hasn't made the same error since.

"What if Quality Road runs into her and knocks her around because he's so big and awesome? What if Quality Road gives her the evil eye?"

Please give it a rest, LDP, and calm down.

08 Jun 2010 1:29 PM
Draynay

Atthebarn2 I don't have the time or patience to deal with you today.  Many, many times I have said on this forum and others I love horse.  All horses.  I am like everyone else and would love the chance to feed Zenyatta or any other horse a apple or two.  I am not talking to the horse or about the horse I am really talking to the connections of the horse.  That is what often leads someone to like or not like a horse.  In the case of Mr. Moss he has turned Zenyatta into a complete joke.  Hiding in California taking the easiest path is not befitting of a Classic winner and IMO does the sport no good at all.  Mr. Moss is turning the horse into nothing more then a regional champion who happend to race a couple times on dirt.  IMO she will NEVER race males on dirt.

08 Jun 2010 1:32 PM
CV

Speaking of Rachel Alexandra, it's Tuesday afternoon and we still don't know where she's running on Saturday? Is it supposed to be a secret?

Have you heard anything yet, Jason?

08 Jun 2010 1:34 PM
Jason Shandler

Atthebarn: This is not the first time youve come on here and said angry/disrespectful things about me and others. That's why I took it personal. I appreciate the fact that you enjoy my writing. Thanks for being more clear. And I appreciate that you put a lot of work into a sport that I write about.

I was being serious about the "live" horses. Like all bettors, I like knowing when a trainer is high on a horse they train. I am a bettor. If you dont want to share the info, that's fine. But I wasn't being sarcastic there.

08 Jun 2010 1:38 PM
Jason Shandler

Fair enough. D'Funnybone probably should be on the list. I guess a sprinter could win the championship. Anyone know the last 3YO to do so?

08 Jun 2010 1:39 PM
Greg J.

Atthebarn,

   Lighten up a little, Your day will get better!  While you might be right that a FEW come on here and make idiots out of themselves with their comments, To lump ALL of us in that group is a little unfair?  As far as Draynay, I honestly don't think anyone takes him seriously except himself!  He is the court jester of this Blog and the rest of the internet, To take his disrespectful comments to heart, Well, Look at the source, Enough said on that sad subject.  Lastly, Your analogy of hockey and soccer couldn't be more off!  Hockey is one of the hardest, demanding sports out there, No comparision to soccer in the slightest can be made!  Do yourself a favor, Watch game seven Friday night on NBC, And, Besides seeing the Blackhawks win the most cherished trophy in all of sports, Lord Stanley's Cup, You might actually see how talented these athletes are...

08 Jun 2010 1:56 PM
Atthebarn2

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands.

You did call the horse a joke. I dont read between the lines. I also think talking about the owners like that is silly. They do what they want what they think is best for their horse and people  are tellin them what to do? Will it really mean anything to you in the big picture?

Not just tryin to suggest but callin them out and such? It just got to me because nobody knows better about how much racing is strugglin than us who are in it.

I'm at the end of the line, Ill go the way of the guys who worked in the game their whole life then just faded away forgotten but it wont hurt any less seeing the game destroyed by maybe well meanin folks. But theres a difference between sincere well meanin fans and bitter spiteful talk tellin the people these horses belong to and are taken care of by them what all theyre doin wrong.

Zookeeper Ive watched the comments for a long time I used to comment. But stopped because it always turns into this. It makes me real sad and almost want to bawl when I see how unkind things get. It may be fun and entertainment for some people to do that but its hurtful and ugly to me. Jerry Moss or John may not see these comments but a lot of us in racing do. A lot just read the good stuff but thats gettin to be less and less.

Id give up right now except I do know theres a lot more people like you and some of the others who just want people to be thankful for all of the horses and the truth that these owners spend a lot of time and money makin sure you all get to enjoy them.

Oh and Draynay I understand the Moss folks give a lot of money to charity. I guess thats what you were gettin at.

08 Jun 2010 1:57 PM
slyder

Here are some responses from an interview I did with First Dude after the Belmont.

slyder: Hey Dude how ya feelin after the race?

First Dude: I'm doing ok. Pretty worn out but i'll recover.

slyder: Any thoughts you'd like to share?

First Dude: Well I thought I had the race in the bag when I got away with going a mile in 1:40+. All of a sudden there was this black veil that came over me. It was like some kind of curse had been cast and try as I might I could not overcome it and hang on.

Speaking of curses have you ever here of draynay?

First Dude: As a matter of fact I have. He's sort of a legend around the backside of the barn.

slyder: A legend? In what way?

First Dude:  He's a legend in his own mind. The joke of the handicapping world. He laughed at me before the Preakness and said I had no chance.

slyder:  Were you aware that he picked you to win the Belmont?

First Dude: Nope. First I've heard that one.

slyder: Ever hear of the draynay curse? They say a horse is doomed to fail when he jumps on the bandwagon.

First Dude:  Now it all becomes clear. The black veil of hopelessness I felt was the curse of draynay. That dude better never come around my stall or I'll give him a good swift kick in the teeth.

slyder: Where do you go from here? Next race?

First Dude: Not sure exactaly but I will be headed to the Travers and a rematch with the best 3 yr olds around. I'm no Rachael Alexandra who ducks the Travers and runs in weaker just to build my resume ya know. There will be no Haskell for this Dude!!

slyder: Who do you regard as the best in the business today?

First Dude: For now it's almost a tossup between Zenyatta and Quality Road. I think I can take Quality Road but Zenyatta has me worried. She's proven against the beat over the Mile and a Quarter where Quality Road is not. Maybe you could talk this draynay dude into cursing Zenyatta by touting her as unbeatable. Then maybe I'd have a shot.

slyder: Not likely since he clearly despises her but maybe someone can since he changes his mind as often as most people change their underwear on his picks.

First Dude: Underwear?

slyder: Well maybe bedding would have been a better choice for you to understand.

First Dude: You mean like everyday then.

slyder: Yes. Well thanks for the interview Dude. Best of luck in the future.

First Dude:  No problem. Before you go, any chance you got a picture of this draynay dude. I'd like to put it on the bottom of my stall. Would give me a target to try and drop my road apples on.

slyder: That's funny Dude.

First Dude: Anybody who would curse me deserves much worse. Come back anytime for more interviews buddy.

slyder: Thanks, I will.

08 Jun 2010 1:57 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

I take it that school is out.  I hope you had a good, no make that a GREAT YEAR.

08 Jun 2010 1:58 PM
Atthebarn2

Jason I'm best off just not writing. I get angry when I see what some people write. I know you know who Im talkin about and Im not the only one who feels that way. I only recall gettin into a tiff with you once.

I do know also that a lot of my fellow trainers dont read stories and such because they also get mad. We talk about it. Im stupid cause I come on here a let fly. We should stay in the background and let everybody say what they want about us.

On the horse Ill ask my owners. They may lay a big bet. But Ill ask since I dont own it.

08 Jun 2010 2:03 PM
Secretariat

Atthebarn2,

Don't let Draynay pull the wool over your eyes.

He hates Zenyatta with a passion.

He doesn't hate the connections of Zenyatta.

If he hated connections, he would hate Jess Jackson for not showing up at the Apple Blossom. He's blowing smoke when he says he hates Zenyatta's connections.

In fact, Rachel Alexandra has been wiped off the face of the earth in Draynay's mind. He doesn't want to talk about a 2009 Horse of the Year that cannot beat a five horse field or a six horse field in 2010.

...but he was sure talking about Rachel last year.

Draynay is shoulder hopper. He goes with the "now" horse (ex:Quality Road) and forgets about horses, like Rachel Alexandra.

08 Jun 2010 2:21 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

I feel like I just walked into a hornet's nest. Now shake hands and come out fighting. This is a forum of expression about the greatest game in existence. Jason is gracious enough to allow people to express their opinions whether it be in jest or serious, or posted to get someone's goat. You have to take what you want and toss the rest just like in handicapping. It is a haven for those that like to stir up an argument but also a great place for race fans to tout their favorites and trade barbs and stories. If you take every comment seriously my advice would be to not read the blogs. Many on here such as myself are bettors and fans and appreciate the accomplishments of any great horse, and the hard work of every horse, trainer, owner, jockey, and writer. As Ted from LA would say-"sometimes there's a little too much mustard on the hot dog but don't be afraid to take a bite anyway."

08 Jun 2010 2:22 PM
Jason Shandler

Athebarn: Regarding the stuff that people write on this blog and others, I think Dray is right on one point: Is there any other sport you know of where people dont cheer for one team and root against another? What I mean is, I think its Ok for people to take the side of one horse and not another. Its not degrading horse racing like you say it is. In basketball, if youre a Laker fan, you hate the Celtics. If youre a baseball fan, you love the Sox and hate the Yanks. Go on a baseball blog and see what fans write. This is like child's play compared to that. Because Dray calls MTB a fluke or Zenyatta a Poly specialist, I dont think that's the end of the world. After all, this sport is based on betting. If you bet on one horse, you are rooting for the others to lose. In that respect, I think you may need to loosen up. For all the nonsense he spews, Dray rarely, if ever, gets personal, like some on here do.

08 Jun 2010 2:32 PM
sodapopkid

Has JJ announced yet as of Tuesday June 13th, 2010 where the 2009 HOTY is running at in 4 days??  I mean this is pure stupid crap.

And people critisize the Mosses on Zenyatta.   What a joke...

He must not be to happy with her training..............

08 Jun 2010 2:54 PM
jayjay

LDP : Let me try your argument and turn it around okay?  What do you think will happen if Calvin put Rachel about 6 or 7 lengths back of the field ??  Do you think she'll hit the board, I would say no, she wouldn't.  It's not her style of running.  You see how stupid it sounds now ?? Now STOP comparing their running style, it's STUPID, it will never happen.  I have no idea why I'm even responding to your comments. The "evil eye" ??? Come on now...sheesh LOL

Rechelle : You don't like Zenyatta's connection but you're enjoying what RA's connection has done to her right?  You're giving her a pass because her connection ran her to the ground and now can't win but yet Zenyatta's connections are stupid for treating her the way they did so that she was able to win 2 G1 races to start her campaign this year.  Yeah, you make a lot of sense.  I'd comment on your contradiction but gw_bushwacker already did and he did a great job LOL.

GunBow : I don't necessarily agree about Zenyatta being just a great synthetic horse.  She has run on dirt, yes, just twice but she did, bottom line.  There are many major tracks that has major races that these so called dirt horses can go to and compete but they don't and that's considered okay.  If that's the case, then the HOTY award of last year should be renamed to "DIRT Horse Of The Year" award, because Rachel didn't run on synthetics last year let alone win on it.  It would never happen of course because the voters are based on the east coast and thinks synthetics are not a real surface.  I don't have a bias for synthetic tracks, this is what Cali racing has and as far as I'm concerned, any good horse can run on any type of tracks, those who don't are just scared that they can't win on it.  So if they want to separate the two types of tracks then the awards should reflect that, if not, then Zenyatta's accomplishments should be recognized and I think it might be this year.  The National Poll has her as number 1 over QR, it's funny when the voters are not just east coast writers, the outcome is different :)

There's no truth to the reports that horses get more injured on synthetics compared to dirt so there's really no excuse for dirt horses not to run on it.  The only excuse is that they can't win on them, they can't run on them so they use the excuse that it's not a real surface.  This debate really on affects the HOTY award and it doesn't really concern me if Zenyatta wins it or not.  HOTY is a one year award, to be considered great, you have to win it 5 or more consecutive times I think.  Winning it one year makes you a one year wonder.  It doesn't take away anything from you though, you have accomplished a lot in that year and that's why you deserve the award but winning 16 races and be undefeated, that's something not very many can accomplish, and I doubt any would be able to do it in the near future.

The synthetic track argument will just be one of many that will be brought up if Zenyatta breaks the record, it doesn't matter to me, if she breaks the record, then it'll be in the record books.  No one can say she cheated, the history buffs will argue about who she beat and all that but to me, there's really no way comparing who Citation and Cigar and Mister Frisky beat to win their 16 races.  People will forget those details, they'll remember that Zenyatta, not who she faced or who dodged her.  It's the same with Citation, Cigar and Mr Frisky, no one knows who they faced in all of those 16 consecutive races unless you actually research it (except maybe for LAZ who seems to be a walking equine encyclopedia lol), the only thing they talk about is that they hold the current record.

08 Jun 2010 2:59 PM
berttheclock

Atthebarn2, yes, it is unfortunate whenever commenters descend to the level of some I have seen at the track who start yelling "I'll book your bet".  Yes, I, too, have been annoyed by the garish cheering by some "wise guy" cheering on their 1 to 5 pick.  Where, oh where, are they to cheer on that 25 to one shot?  You know the winning long shot, which the "wisest of wise guys" says "Didn't have the numbers and it is nothing but garbage".

But, as to the comment from some Know Nothing about horses being treated far better than homeless women.  Yes, as long as they are, financially, productive.  After that, far too many hit the ALPO factories.  So, how many homeless women are taken to those same factories.  One of my happiest moments was in 2001 at Del Mar, when, walking in the gates, I observed Bedoin, one of the greatest "people's horses" on the So Cal circuit and a once touted Elmendorf rising star, to be grazing under the protection of the great people who had saved him from such slaughter.  Had a ton of tears in my eyes when I stroked him and spoke to him about his beating my bet on the wire at SA.  Or the time, Pincay was up on him at a very long price for his first come back as a claimer.  Yes, the great gray firing down the lane to help Craig Phillips hit his $1.9 million Pick Six at SA.  He was saved, but, how many others are not?  Horses are not garbage.  There is more integrity in their droppings than many of the unkind words printed on blogs by a, thankfully, very small minority.

08 Jun 2010 2:59 PM
sodapopkid

DRF is reporting that it is more than likely that RA will go to the Fleur Di Lis,   and not to the Foster to take on Blame.  And we want to throw stones at the older champion's owners, but not at the 2009 HOTY owner.............No one gets a free pass......Its tit for tat............

08 Jun 2010 3:07 PM
Trebloc

Jason, you forgot to mention that if you love the Bruins you hate the Flyers, Canadians, Rangers, Sabres and etc............I wonder if Lamar Kardashian shows up for tonight's against the Celtics!    

08 Jun 2010 3:12 PM
Atthebarn2

Well lets just agree to disagree on what personal is. To me he gets personal all the time. He calls people who write on here names and gets real sarcastic like. He calls out trainers and owners. Most of the time that I've seen others bite back is when he bit first. You have your picture of him but Im gonna bet it dont match up with that of a lot of people.

Maybe you younger folks thing its funny and sarcasm is something to laugh about all the time. I dont.

Racing is a little different because when you cheer against somebody its different. Horses can get into all kinds of fixes that can cost them their lives. I don't think that a ball player can. Least wise when I was playin we could maybe get a broken nose or tore up knee or something but we'd heal. Like I said a horse can only do what it can do. They rarely are quitters, if they are they dont run long. They give their best and almost every trainer, jockey and owner I know or have ever known do the same and want the best for their horses and want them to perform the best they can.

I dont think cheering for your horse is bad at all. Maybe even rootin against a horse or hopin they run into a little traffic or such, although I just always want to win fair and square by havin the best horse. But callin them flukes and such just seems not something a racing fan would do. It dont matter to your bet what you write on here. It only matters that people are seein it. I also think youll get a lot of disagreement on Draynay. The biggest difference of all is that the horses cant speak. Cant explain what might have happened in a race.

Truthfully if I was ever at a race and heard some of the stuff I read on here or heard someone say block him out like they do at a basketball game I'd probably smack them.

I saw on a different blog that racing isn't a sport in the true sense. Its a business built around gambling. It has rules for race ridin and for horses gettin out or impeding others. One of the wicked picks that a basketball player puts on an opponent at half court almost never will be called a foul. But just bump another horse and you'll get taken down.

I respect your opinion on racing and I respect most of what you write. But youll never get me to agree on Draynay. Hes at the center of a lot of disagreement and bitterness.

As far as loosening up? I always said I'd die and then leave the game. Now Im thinkin more and more of just gettin out. Maybe then I can loosen up and take it with a grain of salt. Maybe then Ill think callin horses a fluke or sayin some of the things Ive read on here that you dont think are bad will be real funny.

For those who got offended by what I said. You know who you are who dont say the kind of things I talked about. For those of you who do say those things you are the ones me and those like me have been trying to talk to.

If I offended any of you who come on here and talk straight and dont take what I figure to be shots at the horses or the owners then I apologize.

I love my game. It means the world to me and its been my life for over a half a century. Yep I get angry and yep I take it serious. When I dont it really is time to leave. Why do you think so many are doin just that?

08 Jun 2010 3:26 PM
Householder

Doesn't Zenyatta have more grade 1 wins than QR and RA combigned?  

I agree with Jason, it's Pari-Mutual.  It won't work if we all like the same horse.  

So Dray doesn't like Zenyatta.  He's 0-16 and I have some of his money.  

Right now she's

outperforming the S@P 500 by

6000!%.  

A two dollar "let it ride" through all 16 races would be worth $131,072 today!  

08 Jun 2010 3:26 PM
Draynay

Secretariat, maybe you should go back to last year to see who was all over Quality Road from the beginning.

And I am a huge Rachel fan and Zenyatta will never beat her in a million years.  Zenyatta looks like a claiming horse on dirt !

08 Jun 2010 3:29 PM
sodapopkid

And I am a huge Rachel fan and Zenyatta will never beat her in a million years.  Zenyatta looks like a claiming horse on dirt !

Re: Dray , Zenyatta can beat Rachel with her eyes closed.

WOW, dude, You are really sipping on to much Kendall-Jackson Excuse Juice aint ya???

08 Jun 2010 3:42 PM
CV

jayjay,

Just to clarify something. The "evil eye" comment was mine, not LDP's.

Those two sentences were meant as satire in the vein of the "what ifs" that were posted about Quality Road slowing down the pace, etc.

"And I am a huge Rachel fan and Zenyatta will never beat her in a million years.  Zenyatta looks like a claiming horse on dirt !"

Draynay 08 Jun 2010 3:29 PM

Dray's first sentence is exposes the root cause of his nastiness toward Zenyatta. The second sentence proves the falsity of his earlier statement that he is really "not talking to the horse or about the horse I am really talking to the connections of the horse."

slyder, LOVED your "conversation" with First Dude.

08 Jun 2010 4:01 PM
Secretariat

Draynay,

Why did the Rachel Alexanddra connections bow out of the Apple Blossom?

Were they afraid they were going to be beat by a claimer?

Keep making the statements and I'll keep stickin to ya!

08 Jun 2010 4:07 PM
mz

Footlick, et al: anyone who wants to come up to Toronto, lemme know and we'll do the around-the-world-food thing.  Every day, we'll sample another type of food in one of the billions of restaurants.  Then we can go to Woodbine and I can lose all my money (as usual -- and not just in the slots) and watch how you REAL bettors win.  (even you, Jason...just come up between June 11th and July 11th and we'll show you soccer!).

Only not in July.  I'm in Paris.  

08 Jun 2010 4:22 PM
Draynay

Mr. Jackson, do me a favor and announce your intentions after this silly little race on Saturday.  Tell everyone what races you will enter at Saratoga and then invite the mare in California to join you.  Why the two of you won't race against the best is beyond me and getting old.  The racing fans deserve better.  

08 Jun 2010 4:23 PM
mz

p.s. Laz: come back for a nostalgic walk down St. Clair -- but only until the semi-finals because Italy is (unfortunately) going to go down in flames after that.

You say "ice cream"...I say "gelato".

08 Jun 2010 4:24 PM
LAZMANNICK

mz

You say tomato

I say toomauto

08 Jun 2010 4:30 PM
Footlick

Jason- I think Xtra Heat was 3 yr old filly champion, but I could be wrong

08 Jun 2010 4:32 PM
Billy's Empire

man, this blog got long quick.

look, I don't want to having a pissing contest. if you all want to know, I am about 10% owner of 1 horse, and my family owns a 450 acre farm in Oklahoma and they race and breed horses. The farm is actually up for sale, any takers?

Does that clear things up?

Second, I will be at CD on Friday night and Saturday. We have a box on the finish line in section 317. If you want to find me, come look for me.

Watchin the World Cup at 230, then going to the track.

For Breeders Cup, we will be in the turf club.

That is a little more specific than "look me up"

Jason, can you get me an update on Take Control?

I need to get a bigger spoon to keep up with Dray stirring the pot.

See you on the other blog.

Peace

08 Jun 2010 4:33 PM
dbs

Draynay,

So a claiming horse can win a Grade 1 race on dirt?

08 Jun 2010 4:33 PM
Carlos in Cali

... nah! Nevermind. To each his own.

08 Jun 2010 4:36 PM
Ted from LA

mz,

We'll always have Paris.

08 Jun 2010 5:07 PM
mz

Ted, will we?

I've been sadly misinformed.

08 Jun 2010 5:27 PM
Footlick

mz- I'm extremely jealous!

08 Jun 2010 5:40 PM
LDP

Jayjay,

I never compared styles, where did I do that? I'm outlining that one has been ganged up on and one has not. There are different way to gang up on a closer than there is on a stalker or frontrunner. Any horse, closer to mid pack can be bumped around, boxed in and forced to go wide, that is what could be done to Zen but has not. A frontrunner will be put through demanding fractions and get floated wide in order to be softened up for closers. RA has had that happen to her twice, and both times against males. Zen has not had that against any halfway decent horses yet. That is my point, not comparing running styles.

08 Jun 2010 5:52 PM
jayjay

Ooops, thanks for clarifying that CV but still LDP makes really ridiculous arguments that I assume you were quoting him/her.  I don't know why I kept debating with him/her this whole time lol.

Jason :  Any word on where RA is running?

08 Jun 2010 6:01 PM
Kat

Jason - I do think you misread ATB2's sentence, he commented on BH and your blog being "legitimate" sites vs some which didn't have much credibility.  And that was a really nice, insightful post that you put up.  Thanks for that.

ATB2 - It's the horses and the people that love them that make it all worth while.  Keep up the good fight.

08 Jun 2010 6:01 PM
LDP

CV,

You've seen me angry, and you've seen me make rash statments that is not one of them.

The point is that race was crawing slow, but still had no real quality speed horse in there to fend of Zen. If the leader had been RA last year, she wouldn't have gotten there in time. She was all out and barely got up in time and they weren't even trying to screw her up, Smith just got overconfident. Point is what happens if she is boxed, forced to give 10 lengths head start this year's QR? He will not fade away, he'll keep on going if left alone. He is a lot better than AC and if Zen were to get ganged up on and not QR, then Zen would not get up in time.

08 Jun 2010 6:02 PM
LDP

Laz,

I do get your point, but where I get my POV with 132lbs is this year and last year. St.T is a nice horse, but not Zenyatta. Zenyatta beat LIS last year and her and St.T are not that far from each other. Zen beat LIS with 129lbs last year, if she is actually better, like Smith has said, then yes she should get more, IMO around 132lbs.

Also to make this clear, I am not a fan of handicapping. I don't know of any other sport that does that to it's stars. I do not mind weight breaks sometimes, like 3yr olds against older horses. However if it must go on then I think it should be done right, and it's not.

Also Laz, yes school is out and I have officially graduated.

08 Jun 2010 6:09 PM
jayjay

Draynay : How about you settle down for a little bit and let RA win a race first before asking your friend JJ about inviting the legendary Zenyatta.  I seriously doubt JJ is even considering that at this time.  They have a huge pressure to win a race, poor RA is the one that has to do it.  If RA fails again, he should retire her and let her be happy but unfortunately, he'll probably fire Asmussen, and will keep trying to get that first win.

Isn't it the wednesday before the race is when they draw the post positions for most races ?  How come there's still no announcement from JJ ?  It really not a big deal to me, just wondering.  I am anxious to see her run again and of course I will root for her to not win :)  and be beaten by a longshot but that's all on the business side of things.  Anytime I can beat the chalk (unless it's Zenyatta of course), I'm happy as long as the chalk is healthy and didn't lose because of injury.

I've predicted to Draynay way way before and I'm sure he remembers this that after her initial race, I told Draynay that she will not win another race this year and will most likely be retired winless this year.  It's not a knock on RA, it's on JJ and Steve Asmussen that RA is the way she is now.  If she never wins again, they both will have to live with what they did to her last year, I'm sure the HOTY trophy will always remind them of that.  I hope I'm wrong though and that she starts winning again and she comes back to her old self before the Classic.  Would love to see her run against the likes of QR and Zenyatta hoping they all stay healthy and sound and 100% so that there will be no excuses.

08 Jun 2010 6:18 PM
MonicaV

Atthebarn2,

So nice to see you again and I agree that there are some on these blogs that are hateful and negative.  In truth, it's not many, just a few but they are ever present to spew the venom.  You're right, it makes them feel better about themselves and their lives.  I don't post as much as I used to as it does get tiresome to read the same things over and over again and the same rationalizations on their flawless logic and expertise.  We all see things differently so we will never agree on everything but some of these people truly feel they are absolutely right about what they post when it is strictly opionion.  What I think these people have to realize is that they will never change the minds of the ones they disagree with so it is just a waste of keystrokes and why is it so important to make someone believe what you do?

08 Jun 2010 6:20 PM
Footlick

Billy's Empire- how are you??  Be careful about mentioning the World Cup, you'll put Jason to sleep.....

08 Jun 2010 6:28 PM
KatSan

Billy, thanks. I think that question was asked a day or so ago wasn't it? I forgot by now.

Coincidence, I have a friend/fellow horseman who has a big training place in Oklahoma.

I don't like those tornadoes over there. Used to visit my relatives there and in West Texas and didn't like them attall.

We have a few tornadoes here in New Mexico but nothing like the ones there or on this blog comment board.

The rest of you who are getting so carried away and riled up about something that doesn't mean diddly to you besides a pastime? Take a valium. My Lord I'd hate to be your coworker or employee if you get this hysterical about something that is just on TV and in the written word or something you do for fun. If this is fun for yall then I can't wait to get all my teeth pulled and dentures. That should be a party and a half compared to this. Some of you must like shouting from the top of your lungs, beating your head against a brick wall or all that fun stuff i must be missing out on.

I just say, give em hell Atthe and all the rest of you who think hating horses,  calling a G1 undefeated a claimer is crazy talk and the sign of a sick mind.

Zookeeper I saw on the other blog that you're going to join us in the game. After reading this nonsense do you want to reconsider? :)

08 Jun 2010 6:31 PM
Draynay

dbs...look up Lava Man

08 Jun 2010 6:45 PM
Secretariat

LDP,

Your living in a fantasy world (like usual).

No matter what the pace is, Zenyatta is always going to beat you to the wire.

It's not that hard to understand is it?

I mean we could spell it out for you.

Would that be better?

08 Jun 2010 7:32 PM
Leon

Bushwacker:

You still don't get the point.

She's scaring competition because she's being entered in exactly the same races she has won in the past, and that's not what her connections promised when they unretired her.

I'm not bashing the champ; but she's on the same path as always, and that has resulted in losing HOTY twice. If the voting would be held today, she'd lose again to Quality Road, and I'd hate to see that because she's probably better than him.

It seems to me her connection are putting all their eggs in the BCC basket...

How has THAT worked for them?

08 Jun 2010 7:38 PM
KatSan

Just to be clear its the tornadoes that I don't like attall, not the relatives.TeeHee.

Well really though some of the outlaws remind me of some on here.

Billys empire maybe Tim G meant he'd be in the paddock at the breeders cup?

08 Jun 2010 7:47 PM
Ted from LA

mz,

Rent and watch Casablanca tonight.  If your significant other asks any questions, tell him some freak/weirdo from the internet recommended it.  

08 Jun 2010 7:50 PM
Niatross

Draynay (the shoulder hopper),

How come you stopped talking about Rachel Alexandra?

Do you like to shoulder hop from one horse to the next?

If one horse falters, do you always get off their bandwagon and join another?

08 Jun 2010 7:50 PM
Zookeeper

KatSan,

Do I want to reconsider? Not one bit.

It's not the likes of Dray that bug me. His comments are often so stupid that I know he just posts them to get people to pay attention to him... and (#@?!!?%#) they do, to my constant amazement.

The ones that bug me are the ones that pretend to admire a horse and then proceed to tear down the horse and/or its career. THAT bugs me. But I have learned to just go on to the next post, because I already know what they're going to say next... it's the same old, tired, irrelevant argument. I used to get all bent out of shape but not anymore. What these people think or write is so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things that it is simply pathetic.

P.S. I can almost hear your western twang when I read your posts.  :)

08 Jun 2010 8:06 PM
Draynay

I love Rachel but what do you do with her?  It's no different then  Zenyatta.  Both horse are great horses but there's no point in racing either one of them against Quality Road.  He is on another level.  Let's hope Moss and Jackson get together and do the only thing they can and hook up in the Distaff.  The only chance Zenyatta has to win HOY is to beat Rachel in the Distaff and hope Quality Road doesn't win the Classic.  Taking on Quality Road is a automatic loss at this point. And Moss knows it that is why he has NO PLANS in leaving California.

08 Jun 2010 8:13 PM
LDP

Sec,

When the pace was slow and Mike Smith waited a bit to long Zen got up by a scant nose to AC. Not QR, not IWR, not SB, not RA, or any horse of quality that she would be giving a head start to. Had that been any of the others mentioned above in a race when everything is dead set against her she would've lost.

08 Jun 2010 8:22 PM
LDP

jayjay,

The feeling is mutual.

08 Jun 2010 8:24 PM
KatSan

I can't believe I'm talking to a nut, but is he saying that Zenyatta is a claiming horse? Lava Man was, but sometimes claiming horses are G1 winners maturing or waiting for the right trainer. Charismatic was up for a claiming tag but he wasn't really a claimer. Zenyatta has won not just a couple or five G1s.

Like someone said Draynay you have an obsession. I know old trainers like Atthe, I'm married to one. The disrespect you show him, other owners, horses and trainers on and off this blog is disgraceful.

What the heck will you say when Zenyatta goes to Churchill and wins the classic? The same thing you say about our little Mine That Bird and all the other horses that run their guts out every darn time they run.

The catch is that everybody but a couple of people know you for the fraud you are. You don't do anything for racing and you don't add to the discussion.

So I think you should just go about your life, pretending that you'r a somebody. I can't believe you've ruined so many of Jason's nice and interesting stories with your same ole song you sing offkey every single time.

08 Jun 2010 8:28 PM
LAZMANNICK

Just reading on the DRF news that the Fleur De Lis, likely Rachel's next race, is having trouble attracting quality horses.  The main reason cited is the number of G-1 and G-2 races for fillies and mares this weekend.  Without knocking Rachel, if she goes in a potentially very weak FDL with little or no competition, what does that prove?  The arguements will continue and nothing will be settled.  Personally, New York is not that far away and Rachel is nominated for the Ogden Phipps.  That's where she should go.  Being a G-1 it should attract a much better field.

08 Jun 2010 8:30 PM
jayjay

Draynay is getting one foot on the RA wagon this week just in case she does win.  This after months of ignoring her and touting the flavor of the month QR, he's making sure that he mentions how he is a fan of RA.  Watch him berate RA if she doesn't run or win and all that "Zenyatta will never beat RA" crap will all be forgotten.

Everyone knows your act Draynay, it's not a big deal if you just admit it, everyone is allowed to jump off the wagon once in awhile.  It's okay to be wrong sometimes, but I do understand in your case, it's a little desperation that you need to attach yourself to the winning horses just so you can feel good about your handicapping abilities.  All those missed predictions can take a toll specially if you're betting on them and not hitting anything.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether RA will run or not, not sure when they draw the PPs for FDL and Foster.  Up to this afternoon, CD has not been able to announce the field for FDL, still waiting on RA team to make their decision.  Last news on the CD website are there are only 2 probables for the race lol.

08 Jun 2010 8:47 PM
jayjay

LDP : Okay, I'll give it one more shot.  I get it now, RA got ganged up on and won, Zenyatta, according to you never had any troubles in all of her 16 races.  Now what ?  You're saying that because RA has been ganged up on is better than the two ?  

Now are you talking about RA being ganged up on last year or this year ?? Because if I remember correctly, she has had a great trip on both of her races this year, so great that if she was the same as last year, she would've won by at least 20 lengths in both races.   If you're talking about last year, I don't get the point of your argument because she DID won the HOTY of the year last year and Zenyatta didn't.   So according to the folks voting for the HOTY, she was the best horse last year.  Does this make you happy now ?

I just find it really funny that you and the Z bashers will come up with anything, and I mean anything at all to discredit her lol.  This year, she won 2 G1s, and will most likely keep running in G1 races regardless of what happens in the Vanity.  The more I look at the race with only 3 other horses, the more I'm getting antsy.  I'm hoping that Mike goes back to her 2008 Lady Secret race.  She should win the race but as I've taught Draynay, there's no sure thing in horse racing.  I'm sure you and the RA fans are well aware of that.

08 Jun 2010 9:03 PM
jayjay

On a different note,  anyone handicapped tomorrow's Belmont card ??  Looks like the P6 pool might get up to 3M, even if it's all favorites, it'd be a good payout.

Jason : Have you handicapped the P6 yet ?  Any live ones ?  Or singles ?

08 Jun 2010 9:05 PM
CV

"Point is what happens if she is boxed, forced to give 10 lengths head start this year's QR? He will not fade away, he'll keep on going if left alone. He is a lot better than AC and if Zen were to get ganged up on and not QR, then Zen would not get up in time."

LDP 08 Jun 2010 6:02 PM

And my point is, Mike Smith hasn't made the same mistake of leaving her too much to do since that one time. Do you really think he would forget that lesson in a race with Quality Road?

Zen doesn't always have to run dead last. I've also seen her rate a few lengths back from the leaders. In other words, she's flexible.

And by the way, isn't it the front-runners or stalkers who get "ganged up on" as you're describing? Why would other jockeys "gang up" on a closer near the back of the pack when it would kill their own chances of winning? Would horse owners and trainers approve of their horses expending valuable energy in that manner? I think not.

So the whole scenario you're painting is more than a little strange.

08 Jun 2010 9:30 PM
mz

Ted: I have spent the last 5 years trying to talk the kidlets into watching Casablanca but they're a little leery because it's black and white.

THIS is what comes from the internet and the iPod and the youtube.  Nobody understands what "Classic" really means.  Sort of like dissing Citation, for example, or Secretariat or Ruffian.

(But thank you for bringing Ilsa and Rick up on this blog.  I feel that this is the start of a beautiful friendship.)(do you have a trenchcoat?)

08 Jun 2010 9:34 PM
berttheclock

Yes, Lava Man started as a claimer.  Interestingly, one of his bloodlines, Nostalgia Star, out of a Pia Star mare, started for either a MDCL of $40 or 50 thou at Del Mar.  His second race was at the same level.  He broke his maiden in a $25,000 added at Los Alamitos and was sold.  He, later, won a Grade I with Pat V up at SA on an off track (Yep, that Pia Star kicked in) - He earned well over $3 mill on the So Cal circuit.  But, Geez, horror of horrors, he had once been a claimer.

08 Jun 2010 10:00 PM
sodapopkid

That's where she should go.  Being a G-1 it should attract a much better field.

Re:  Laz, Dont you get it?  They dont want a better field,  they want  a soft field in hopes that the 2009 HOTY hopefully can finally beat a grade 2 race against grade 3 stringers..............It's more downgraded that a HOTY is running in the races RA is than the champion older horse coming back and running in the Vanity.  Vanity is a grade 1............

08 Jun 2010 10:05 PM
sodapopkid

Zenyatta getting boxed??  What? Have you not been watching her races lately?   She is weaving in and out of traffic........she started this in the BCC.

Rachel fans probably dont watch to many of Zenyatta's races.

08 Jun 2010 10:07 PM
jayjay

LDP : "the feeling is mutual" ... which of my post were you feeling the same lol ?  I'm not making fun of ya, just clarifying which one you were referring to lol.

08 Jun 2010 10:09 PM
Whirlaway

Leon,

The Zenyatta connections do not care about "Horse of the Year" honors.

How many times do you need to be reminded of this?

Out west, people think "Horse of the Year" is a joke.

It's an eastern-biased popularity contest.

In the last 20 years, 15 eastern-based horses have won "Horse of the Year".

The west doesn't care about it anymore. We feel ignored. So we ignore the east now. Zenyatta races on the west coast (where she is appreciated).

Zenyatta went 7-0 in 2008 and Curlin received the award for the second year in a row (after losing in the Breeders Cup Classic). Meanwhile, Zenyatta won her Breeders Cup race and beat the 2007 Distaff Champion in Ginger Punch in the 2008 Apple Blossom(at Oaklawn Park).

08 Jun 2010 10:19 PM
KatSan

"(But thank you for bringing Ilsa and Rick up on this blog.  I feel that this is the start of a beautiful friendship.)(do you have a trenchcoat?)

mz 08 Jun 2010 9:34 PM"

mz I can't believe you asked a loaded question like that from Ted. I've read his comments. I have a hunch he wrote an X rated response.:)

Zookeeper, me a western Twang? Nah. I was born on the Texas border, my Daddy is a Texan and people say we have a Texas twang. I think they have hearing problems.:)

Most of us from here do though, listen to the connections of Mine That Bird. I never thought any of us did until we hit the rodeo and race track circuit and everybody says something about our twang. Saying y'all and all the rest of the Southern things.

So Draynay you think you show respect calling Jerry Moss Mr? He told you personal that he isn't stepping out of California? What are they going to do with Rachel? One more loss and she's going to be retired before she loses all her value. There's still time to breed her, a May foal but they haven't done bad lately.

You, LDP and the others who bash Zenyatta all the time will soon have to find another to beat up and make snide remarks about as well as about the owners. I'm sure yall will find one, no doubt.

We get your point you're repeating yourself so just say toodles until you can come on with a new complaint.

08 Jun 2010 10:22 PM
Jason Shandler

Whirlaway: The Mosses dint care about HOY? Are you kidding. Did you watch the Eclpse Awards last year. After the announcement, it looked like Jerry Moss was going to cry. Trust me: They care. And they wont win the award again if she keeps taking the easy route.

08 Jun 2010 10:32 PM
LAZMANNICK

sodapopkid

I agree.  I'm just trying to be fair (not the horse).  I've checked the nominations for the FDL and the Ogden Phipps.  9 of the noms on the FLD list are on the Ogden Phipps list (all total pussycats).  The difference of course is that both Zardana and Unrivalled Belle are in the Ogden Phipps.   You would think that Rachel's connections would want a crack at them, but we both know that won't happen.  Unfortunately, another paper tiger race. Maybe if we put a hex on JJ they'll make a mistake and drop her nomination into the Stephen Foster box by mistake.  LOL

08 Jun 2010 10:46 PM
Tim G

Good news CD is racing its overnight purses by 10%, Monmouth is having very good success with its concept and purse structure.

Bad news the Belmont hit the skids on TV shares and the on track handle was down by almost 16%.

MDI is considering dropping out of the NTRA, following along behind CDI and Delaware, many more will probably follow. NTRA is shifting its focus away from promoting racing via television and focusing on something, not sure what. Maybe to find enough money to survive which most of us doubt they'll do.

NTRA co-sponsors the Eclipse awards. Do we really think the DRF and NTWA will keep it going?

I doubt it. Therefore the Eclipse Awards, official source of HOY etc will probably go away and not only will people not know who the HOY was from 3 years ago, they won't know or care what the Eclipse Awards were.

So to me chasing HOY is not an ideal focus with a mare at the very end of her career. But I don't hear voices like some people, don't ask 'Mr'Moss questions that he neither hears or answers when certain people ask.

08 Jun 2010 10:58 PM
Draynay

Katsan, what will I say when Zenyatta wins the Classic at Churchill? lol. I will tell my wife thank you for waking me up I was having a nightmare.  I have told you a thousand times Zenyatta is a average horse on dirt she will not be running in the Classic.  Moss didn't bring her this far to watch her get whipped and off the board.

08 Jun 2010 11:01 PM
jayjay

Jason : I do think that they probably did care about it last year when they thought they had a chance after winning the Breeder's Cup Classic.  Even Steve Haskin was torn that Zenyatta didn't win it with Rachel but that was last year.  This year they have a chance to break the record and that is much much more valuable than the HOTY award.  No, they won't say no to it if they were awarded the HOTY but I doubt very much that they do care about it this year.  I believe they targeted this year's Classic in hopes that they can have a chance to set another record of being only the second horse to win back to back Classics (Only Tiznow have done it), that would be two records they will set this year and that makes it a lot better than the HOTY.

08 Jun 2010 11:02 PM
Secretariat

Shandler,

The Mosses don't care anymore.

They have been burned twice.

Do you get it?

If they cared, they would be racing all over the North American continent.

You can blame the NTRA, NTWA and DRF for Zenyatta not traveling the rest of the year.

The Mosses aren't going to do it. Do you get it now?

08 Jun 2010 11:17 PM
LDP

KatSan,

Where have I bashed her? Did I say she sucks or imply she does? I am saying I would like to see her really tested. She's never been ganged up on and I'm curious as to what would happen if every jockey was riding to beat her. The one time she really ran into trouble the field wasn't even running to beat her, it was a mistake on Smith's part and she was fully extenede to make up the ground on AC, who did run a big race. However, she even on that day is no match for what some of these older males are below their best.

08 Jun 2010 11:20 PM
LDP

"Ooops, thanks for clarifying that CV but still LDP makes really ridiculous arguments that I assume you were quoting him/her.  I don't know why I kept debating with him/her this whole time lol."

Ring any bells jayjay? I feel your arguments are just as rediculous, the only difference is I don't mind debating.

08 Jun 2010 11:22 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

mz

   I had a girlfriend once that had a nine year old son. We told him that we were all going to watch a black and white movie and he started bawling his eyes out and then threw a fit, and started throwing things around. "Not black and white. No !!!!! We're not watching black and white. That sucks !!!!" We never did watch it, and I was out of there for good soon after that.

08 Jun 2010 11:23 PM
sodapopkid

Laz, Do RA fans think Rachel is going to recieve any hooplah if she wins the FDL race??  I mean come on,  another grade 2 race so light that she should win it.  If she dont win it , she should be banned from the tracks............

It sure wont be anything but a joke, that is if she wins it.

Even more to condone than the Vanity...................I wonder how many RA fans are we going to hear fussing because JJ entered her in this race instead of the Phipps or the Foster.........

08 Jun 2010 11:26 PM
LDP

CV,

What do you think Garret tried to do all by himself on LIS last year, huh? Problem is he was the only one who was trying it.

I'm not saying Smith will do it again, I never EVER said that. But heck many of fanatics like you like to just read what you want to then come back and use only that. Or you are just being to thick to actually understand the actual point.

08 Jun 2010 11:27 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

sodapopkid

   I agree with you. Zenyatta is one of the greatest pugilists of all time. If she gets boxed in she jabs, bobs and weaves her way out of there, and then delivers the knockout blow leaving her opponents dazed and gasping for air.

08 Jun 2010 11:28 PM
LDP

jayjay,

I am saying I would like to see what happens when Zen get that kind of trouble from some halfway decent horses. I would like to see her run in a race against the boys and see her pull off a win even when things don't go smoothly. In the Classic she never was boxed or forced to go wide on the turn, it was a fantastic ride by Smith that day. He took her inside and waited until after the turn to let her loose for once. She has had troubles against fillies, I am not denying that, but what about when she's face with some graded stakes winning colts and does not get the kind of master ride Smith gaver in the Classic?

08 Jun 2010 11:32 PM
Ted from LA

mz,

Truth me told, my kids, and youngsters they are (amazing for a 95 year-old I admit), love Casablanca.  The more often you watch it, the better it is.  I do have a trenchcoat and once wore clothes under it (that was for your entertainment KatSan).  I can't believe the fights that broke out on the last Jason article.  I'm a lover, not a fighter.  However, I agree (and am the first to state that "fact" like FOX News would do it...) that soccer, hockey basketball and any other game using balls or pucks are not sports.  Boxing, wrestling, swimming, track, gymnastics,  and horseracing...  all sports.  Nascar is the only "sport" that messes up my theory but I have never considered driving a car to be a sport.  Unless you're in downtown NYC or Iowa in January.  Does anyone who read to the end of this post think I have ADD?  If not, do you have some other psychological theory?  I do, but I don't want to influence me.

08 Jun 2010 11:40 PM
Big Whisky

Jason,

The Zenyatta connections should of won HOY in 2008 when Zenyatta went 7-0.

They didn't.

What did they do?

They mapped out a campaign for 2009 and won the Breeders Cup Classic.

The result:

They didn't win HOY for the second year in a row.

In your feeble mind, do you think they care this year (after being embarrassed last year and not winning it)?

You can tell what they are doing this year. They are ignoring the east. They don't care anymore.

They know that an undefeated racemare like Zenyatta will go down in the history books and the voters will have to live with the rest.

Watch this video:

"Zenyatta Exits a Perfect Legend With Epic Classic"

www.youtube.com/watch

Note the gentleman at the 1:32 mark of this video.

He lays it all out for ya.

08 Jun 2010 11:42 PM
Jason Shandler

Secretariat and Big Whisky: Sure the Mosses dont care. Keep telling yourselves that. You might actually start believing it.

They are doing nothing different this year than they did last year. Take the easiest path through October. Show up for one big race in November and hope to win. Problem is, they wont win this year. Not outside of Cali.

09 Jun 2010 12:06 AM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

Look at the Classic again.  She was hopelessly beaten at the quarter pole.  She made a move then at the eighth pole actually waited for Twice Over to pass her so she could get to the outside then a little grunt and a groan and she was in front, looking as pretty as could be and probably wishing that she could go around again because she wasn't even tired.....Do you think that Rachel, Quality Road or Rail Trip, if they were in the same position, would have won that race and as ridiculously easy as she did?

sodapopkid:

Right about now Rachel fans will do anything for a win, maybe even jump off a bridge.  To be honest, I thought she would go to Delaware but that race is already set.  I'm betting that there won't be any more than two, maybe three challengers in the FDL and there is still a possibility of a walkover. LOL

09 Jun 2010 12:22 AM
KatSan

"Katsan, what will I say when Zenyatta wins the Classic at Churchill? lol. I will tell my wife thank you for waking me up I was having a nightmare.  I have told you a thousand times Zenyatta is a average horse on dirt she will not be running in the Classic.  Moss didn't bring her this far to watch her get whipped and off the board.

Draynay 08 Jun 2010 11:01 PM"

So you finally admit the horse you want to feed an apple to, winning the Classic would be a nightmare for you? Who are you Snow Whites mother the wicked Queen? Do you wake up saying Mirror mirror on the wall who's the fairest of them all? Then when it answers not you buddy you go into a screaming rage knocking down Zenyatta?

Well we'll just see if any of your picks are running. The best thing going for this game right now is Zenyatta. You may not think so but then again you are not in the game so who cares what you think?

LDP. You have got to be kidding me? Jocks not riding to win? Are you totally unschooled in racings rules?

Jocks get set down/suspended all the time for failure to ride a horse out. They had a stewards hearing on Kent after the Belmont 08. They just suspended a jock in Cal for that.

Kent again on Paddy O' Prado. Thats called throwing a race. With interstate gambling I understand thats grounds for an investigation by the FBI and Federal government for race fixing and I believe several other crimes.

Pleae stop trying to come off as an expert when you aren't one. Pretty funny that the only jock supposedly riding to beat Zenyatta was on another horse trained by her trainer? You think its a conspiracy to keep Zenyatta a winner? Get help. The Breeders Cup they were all trying to win. I wouldn't want to be the trainer especially of one of the foreign horses trying to explain to my owner who doesn't care a fig if Zenyatta stays undefeated, just why my jock wasn't riding to win.

You don't think these guys are all out all the time? They aren't going to ride dirty and risk killing themselves or like Espinoza, get set down.

Do you actually understand how racing works?

09 Jun 2010 12:36 AM
jayjay

LDP : Ahh, now it's very clear to me.  You are pretty much the first person that I've ever debated with that wishes to see horses get in trouble to determine if they can survive it and win.  That's a very odd thing to wish to determine Zenyatta's greatness.

I've never claimed to be a fan of Rachel, I was impress with her accomplishments last year but I'm not a fan but I would never ever wish to see her get ganged up on to see if she can survive it and win.  Yes, these things happen in horse racing but I would prefer that it doesn't because winning ONE race is not worth it risking the life of the jockey and the horse.

If that's how you want to test Zenyatta then I hope you never get to see her best because I wouldn't want her getting ganged up on and banged up just to prove she's great.  You are really weird.

Her running against the boys doesn't automatically means she'll get ganged up on.  I'm done debating with you, you just keep coming up with really weird scenarios but I guess the bottom line is you want her to run against the boys, and be close to the lead so that there IS a chance that she can be blocked, pushed to the rail, ganged up on whatever, so that you can see whether she can still win.  Well, I'm sorry but you're on your own, I wouldn't wish that on Rachel.

Winning a big G1 race when one of the horses get in trouble makes people question the outcome and that's why I don't like seeing a race where horses get in trouble (besides the fact that I wouldn't want the jockey or the horse to get injured), that means that the winner didn't beat ALL the horses, just the horses that didn't have excuses.

09 Jun 2010 12:40 AM
Jeff

Jason - Keep telling yourself that she won't win outside of Cali. I think you were the same character that said she had no shot of winning the Breeders Cup Classic last year. Is your wallet lighter? I think I still have that BloodHorse video where your sitting in a chair (out on the lawn at Santa Anita) telling us that Zenyatta had never been a mile and a quarter, she'll have to weave herself around more than 12 male horses, blah, blah, blah.

09 Jun 2010 1:39 AM
Draynay

KatSan, what don't you understand? Why would I want Z to hit the board when my handicapping tells me she is a average horse on dirt and won't hit the board ?  She is not G1 quality on dirt and males like Blame and Quality Road are simply too much for her.  Mr. Moss knows that and so does her trainer why else would she be hiding out in California?  The connections said they were going to travel did they mean to the bathroom and back?

09 Jun 2010 7:22 AM
Billy's Empire

Rachel should run in the Foster, but Asmussen and Jackson are scared of Blame

09 Jun 2010 8:29 AM
JerseyBoy

*Oh the ramblings of an incoherent mind.

The handicapped genius wrote, disparagingly I take it:

"Drosselmeyer = Mine That Bird". Well, Mine That Bird is the same horse that Rachel Alexandra was fully extended to beat.

*To all those who do not like soccer. Criticizing the game is similar to criticizing the Mona Lisa. You either see the beauty or you don't.

I love horse racing too. I love to watch the best running against the best.

09 Jun 2010 9:39 AM
Leon

Secretariat & Big Whiskey:

Didn't you read the Mosses interviews when they decided to unretire the champ? There are plenty of them both here and at the DRF site. Go ahead and inform yourselves.

After her victory in the AB, this is what Jay Hovdey from DRF reported:

"They (People) were led to believe that Zenyatta's 2010 campaign would be a transcontinental carnival of delights, with appearances far and wide, a veritable Cirque de Zenyatta. Owner Jerry Moss certainly left that impression after her victory in the Apple Blossom Handicap at Oaklawn Park last month when he said the team would be looking at grade 1 races at a mile and one-eighth in New York and Kentucky for her subsequent starts. The Vanity fits the bill...except for the New York or Kentucky part."

You say they don't care about HOTY...ohh...but they DO...They're just going all wrong about it...

09 Jun 2010 9:58 AM
berttheclock

Lemme see - So, Seattle Slew gets boxed in at HP and J. O. Tobin wins the race - This diminishes Seattle Slew in what way?  Plus, except for a trivia question, how did this elevate JOT to stardom?

09 Jun 2010 10:16 AM
LDP

Katsan

Look at what BD did in the Preakness. He broke from the 1 post then needlessly drifted 5 out in order to float RA wide, then locked into a speed duel wither her around the track. In the Woodward both Da Tara and PTP took turns specifically pushing RA around the track at a suicidal pace. Why would these jocks let their horses do that?

Also look what happened to, I think it was Genuine Risk in the Preakness. You call that riding to win? How about what happened to Smarty Jones in the Belmont? Yes, jockeys will gang up on other horses and sacrifice their own chace at a win. It does happen.

09 Jun 2010 10:40 AM
LDP

Laz,

I have watched it, it was not a bad trip. She did what she normally does all for going wide on the turn. Had she been asked to go wide I think it would've been another Clement Hirsch. that decision by Smith saved that ride. Never in that race did I feel she was hopelessly beaten, she was moving through on the inside on the turn and had quite a few horses beaten by the time they entered the stretch. Did she have to wait some, yes, because Smith debated on sending her through a whole then decided not to and took her around horses. When he did that she dropped her head and leveled off like she always does.

09 Jun 2010 10:45 AM
Slew

Atthebarn2:  I totally agree with your original post.  Ignoring Dray seems the wisest decision since he's always chalky and even disavowed RA in another post.

Slyder:  You cracked me up with your conversation with First Dude.  I loved every word of it.

Dr D.Still love you.

LDP: You wrote about Zen, " I am saying I would like to see her really tested. She's never been ganged up on and I'm curious as to what would happen if every jockey was riding to beat her." I'm guessing you totally missed the BCC last year.  Too bad. It was great.

09 Jun 2010 10:55 AM
LDP

jayjay,

I said I was curious. Just because I would like to see her overcome some adversity over some graded stakes winning males that are that much better than the females she has face is not wishing her to get "banged up". Never would I wish a horse get hurt. Obviously you like twisting words just as I do debating.

09 Jun 2010 10:57 AM
Greg J.

      I will say it one more time, This will be Zenyatta's last race in California people, Her next race WILL be on the East Coast after the Vanity, The first week of August, Of course, That is if she is 110% healthy, Mark my words...

09 Jun 2010 11:18 AM
Tim G

Hey Jason, why don't you do a Q&A with Jerry and see if he's chasing the HOY?

09 Jun 2010 11:43 AM
Footlick

Well, Rachel is in the Fleur de Lis with only one other horse committed so far.  I hope there will be others running.  Otherwise it's a match race against a horse who is totally outclassed. It would be nice to at least have 4 others.   It's not fair to either horse.  I know alot of people are going to make comments about it, many probably disparaging, but it's not the horse"s fault that her connections picked the Fleur de Lis.  I feel they should have gone to the Phipps.  That race is supposedly going to have Unrivaled Belle and Zardana.  She wasn't disgraced by either of them and she fits with that field.  If she has improved since the La Troienne, it would have been the logical next step.  If she hasn't, then the Fleur de Lis makes sense.  I don't think she is in any shape to run in the Foster, so I don't really think that was a viable option.  It's a sad time, because Churchill said they have had problems trying to fill the race.  Hopefully she runs well and this will give her some of the confidence back that she needs.  

09 Jun 2010 11:57 AM
Carlos in Cali

Real quick..LDP, You cannot be serious? You've gone down the deep end now.Put those fantasy books down and focus on the obvious: Zenyatta is in a league of her own,only an error by Mike Smith can get her beat.

Jason, are you insane?.. how many times have you said Zenyatta won't win? LOL. A little too much 'liquid-courage' before noon huh? :)  

Dr. Drunkinbum,  next time you meet a single mother...RUN!

09 Jun 2010 11:57 AM
Householder

"The only chance Zenyatta has to win HOY is to beat Rachel in the Distaff and hope Quality Road doesn't win the Classic" (Draynay).

Your making perfect sense.  This is exactly what they are gambling on.  Who's to say that RA won't be retired after another loss (I would say 50-50) and that Quality Road even makes it to the Breeder's Cup with his foot issues?  

Their best chance is to point towards the Ladies Classic and hope for a continued week 3 year old male division and a uneventful older male division.

Rail Trip?  Sure I would bet him at 1 1/4 at Hollywood.  He loves the track.  Can he get that distance anywhere else?  That remains to be seen.  Quality Road is the standout but I would like to see him on a 1 mile course before hitting him at 4-5 Breeder's Cup day.  At some point he has to leave the "wide sweeping turns" behind.  

Right now I think there are more questions than answers with the HOY vote some 8 months away.  

09 Jun 2010 12:38 PM
Householder

It think the California Horse Racing Board's decision to force racing over synthetics has to weigh heavily on one member in particular.  For a moment suppose all 16 Zenyatta wins were on dirt.  It is probably enough to make Jerry Moss want to drive out to Santa Anita and rip the stuff out with his own two hands.  

09 Jun 2010 12:45 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

That's one of the points I'm trying to make.......You don't start your run at the quarter pole, interrupt it at the eighth pole, and then start up again when you are still behind a fair number of horses, all of whom still have their momentum, and then draw off and win like she did against a top class field unless you are a truly remarkable horse, a cut above if you know what I mean.  And it's true, even if you don't want to admit it, she wasn't really all that extended.

09 Jun 2010 1:12 PM
LAZMANNICK

LDP

Just one last thing.  Trevor Denman's call mid way in the turn just before the quarter pole tells me that he thought she was hopelessly beaten (still has a lot of work to do).  The other thing you're forgetting is the trouble she had in the stretch the first time around, coming out of the, not changing to her proper lead in the stretch, etc.  She had by far the worst trip of any horse in the race.

09 Jun 2010 1:15 PM
LAZMANNICK

Footlick

I agree with you.  Something is wrong, or at least JJ thinks there is.  Racing in the FLD is going to bring nothing but ridicule, and if she ever got beat, the blogs will be terrible and as much as I am a fan of Zen and constantly take Zen's side against Rachel, I sure don't want to see that.  I would have thought skip the Foster.  It's too tough for her right now and would probably be the toughest field she has ever faced.  But to stay away from New York and a chance at redemption against the two fillies that beat her this year does not sound like a lot of confidence to me.  One thing for sure, if she does have a bad weekend I'm going to take heer side.

09 Jun 2010 1:20 PM
KatSan

LDP, you have no idea what actually happened to Genuine Risk.

Angel carried her wide. D Wayne asked if it was intentional and he said no. Their was an inquiry, a stewards hearing and then a hearing from the Maryland Jockey Club. If it hadn't been a filly and if her owners hadn't been so important in East Coast racing the whole thing would have been dropped right away.

Your comments about jocks ganging up on each other? They might do it on the smaller tracks those that are a step up from a bush track or in a fit of anger one might do something stupid but if they knowingly planned on trying to stop another horse thats called collusion. They would be ruled off for life.

You have some sick idea that in order for Zenyatta to prove herself everyone should cheat, and yes if a closed hole or the rail closing up doesn't occur as part of the natural events of running a race? It's cheating.

I seem to remember someone suggesting that Calvin no longer just be given the rail and there was all kinds of crying on here.

You can ride on the rail and not try to block another horse, just have enough sense to take your horse on the shortest route if that is where the track is playing best.

I seemed to remember two races where Zenyatta ran into traffic. One she got stopped dead and the TV guys even said shes a big mare it'll take her a minute to get going again. In two other races she ran into traffic and went inside and outside. I even remember you wrote that any other horse would be taken down if the cut in like she did. Face it and be honest, you are letting your love for Rachel Alexandra blind you to the real picture. I just wonder, did you love her as much when a nobody like my old friend Hal Wiggins had her? You loved Curlin. Did you love HIM as much when Helen had him, before my long time acquaintance Steve got her? Is it just the fact that those are the connections you love? I loved Irby, Jess's uncle, but I can't see much of Irby in Jess. I don't know the Mosses but I love their mare.

I also seem to remember you and everyone else who does that type of thing, saying what Zenyatta did in 08 had no impact on the Horse of the Year in 2009. Well whatever the horse of the year for ANY year did when they were winning that title has no bearing on any other horse of the year in any other year.

Its over its done move along. The politics will decide who wins it this year. I just think you cant bear the idea of Zenyatta winning it. You and Draynay are two of a kind.

09 Jun 2010 1:28 PM
sodapopkid

How is Rachel ever to get her desire to win back if they keep putting her in these extra soft races.  

Jason,  Where is your new blog titled " Rachel running in the FDL, Say it aint so"

09 Jun 2010 1:37 PM
LDP

Laz,

You see a troubled trip, I do not. She was not in close quarters at all. She was in the Santa Margurita, I probably butchered the spelling there, but not againt horses who were all that special. That race was impressive to me, but, it was not against real quality horses. If it happened in the Classic, I still feel she would've won. IMO what will make or break her in a race against horses like she faced in the Classic are two things. If she goes wide, it will not happen, unless the competiton backs up, which they didn't do in the Classic. If the pace is quick and horses back up, she will eat them alive if she goes to the outside. The other thing is if she gets boxed and that pocket does not open up, like it did in her 2010 debut.

09 Jun 2010 2:02 PM
Greg J.

The Field for Rachel's race:

1.Multipass

2.Made for Magic

3.Distinctive Dixie

4.Rachel Alexandra

5.Jessica Is Back

And, Yes, Calvin is on Rachel...

09 Jun 2010 2:09 PM
CV

"If the leader had been RA last year, she wouldn't have gotten there in time."

LDP, if the leader had been Rachel, there would have been a fast pace and this hypothetical discussion of yours would not exist. It would be the same with Quality Road.

"What do you think Garret tried to do all by himself on LIS last year, huh?"

Gomez made Zen check off his heels once and she was agile enough that Smith simply moved her around him. In your scenario, I guess you think Gomez would have continued to drift his horse in front of Zen, which would have killed his chances of winning.

And let me insert some logic here...Don't you think other jockeys would be trying to beat Quality Road in a race? Or do you actually believe all of them would be focused SOLEY on Zenyatta?

"But heck many of fanatics like you like to just read what you want to then come back and use only that. Or you are just being to thick to actually understand the actual point."

Sweetie, if you want to learn the definition of "thick" or "fanatic" go back and read some of your posts in which your stubbornness and hot temper override common sense and logic. One example would be the foul mood you exhibited after Rachel's first loss this year. Fanatic, much?

I'm done trying to discuss what I considered a point of common sense with you in this thread, since you continue to stubbornly discount it.

Peace.

09 Jun 2010 2:22 PM
Householder

Blah blah blah...Zenyatta was supposed to get beat by Ginger Punch (good grief we spent 4 months slapping Jason around on his BC rankings) and then she had no chance against a "well rested" Music Note.  I'm sorry your 0-16 but I can't help you if you don't help yourself.  Stop betting against her and start enjoying her.   Free Zenyatta bobbleheads this Sunday.  

09 Jun 2010 4:14 PM
Householder

I guess it's too late to ship Zenyatta to the FDL.  Thanks for the heads up Jackson.  

09 Jun 2010 4:21 PM
Tim G

LDP I was there I saw it, the trip was no piece of cake.

The race she got boxed in then it miraculously opened up for her? No, Mike said they were able to get her out of it. She does a lot of that on her own. Why can't you just celebrate Rachel's achievements last year and like someone said, move on? You're like someone else who is obsessing over this.

Here's an idea, why don't you contact a horseman who really knows the game and see what they think about what you're saying.

One that I know said the Rachel of last year, he'd take at 1 1/8, but at a 1 1/4? He'd take Zenyatta.

He hates the synthetics and also said last year that the mare needed to come out of Cal. Well when she did this year to run in the AB? He said the horse that should have won it DID. Then said "The good guys won".

You're talking about Rachel and her races, not Zenyatta. It doesn't matter what Rachel did last year. That's over, done, finito. She hasn't performed this year. Yet you don't see anyone saying she'll never win another G1 or any of the rest of that.

I'm really concerned that someone who has presented themselves as a diehard fan and face it that's all you are, is perpetuating this idea that the only way to determine whether a horse is really great is for that horse to run a race where she is getting in trouble, getting boxed in and blocked. Most of Rachels races were glorified works last year. She had very few issues other than having to run her heart out in a couple of races.

The other thing is have you ever thought that this mare as Mike has said, takes care of herself? He tells her when she's ready to run and he admits the few times she's struggled, were his fault.

I'm not sure you're well served to keep on with this tack. You have people on here thinking you are weird, obnoxious and comparable to Draynay. Aren't you a better fan and person than that?

09 Jun 2010 4:36 PM
Tim G

correction SHE, Zenyatta, tells HIM, MIke, when SHE is ready to run.

09 Jun 2010 4:58 PM
jayjay

LDP:  Just one more comment and then we can both ignore each other here lol.  If you're a fan of Rachel, you'd know what kind of running style she has.  She needs to be on or near the lead, that's how she wins her races.  She's tough on the lead.  Last year's Preakness ?  Of course, the other speed horses will go to the front, no one was that stupid to let Rachel get a soft lead, that's normal in racing whether it be G1 or a 6250 claiming race.  How long have you been into horse racing ??

Just because other speed horses went with her, doesn't mean they were trying to "gang up" on Rachel, their running to their style of racing, that's how they run.  How in the world would someone not expect Da Tara to run on the front when that's all the chance he has in winning.  He won the Belmont because no one expected him to go to the front and run away like that.  It's one of the best reminders we've seen in Belmont.  This is the reason why the past few Belmonts, the talk was that the winner will be near the pace.

I don't believe that you were "curious" to see how she will fare against getting "banged up."  She has overcome adversity and I've told you to watch the Santa Margarita race this year.  But no, that wasn't enough for you, as I've said in my last comment, you wanted her to run against the boys, go to the lead and get ganged up on and pushed around so that you can see if she can still win.  This whole thread between you and me was about you trying to tell me how she would do if she was ganged up on the way Rachel was.  So if you were just "curious", what kind of reply were you expecting from me ?  Just say "yes" she won't win ?  From the get go, your "scenarios" never made sense as evident by the other folks that were trying to explain things to you.

Thanks to all the others that tried to make sense of this thread lol, I was really confuzzled by LDP's point.

09 Jun 2010 5:32 PM
jayjay

Greg J : That's what I thought was the plan all along but obviously, it's all a guess on my part.  I believed that they were after the record and whether they get it or not, the schedule will open up and they will try the boys before the Classic.  I'm hoping that you have more inside info and that it is true.

09 Jun 2010 5:40 PM
jayjay

Well, it turns out that Sheriffs has decided to go the Hirsch after the Vanity.  It doesn't make sense to me, and what worries me is that they have made that announcement way before the Vanity.  I just hope that Zenyatta is okay.  If I have to guess, the only logical explanation for ME is that they probably think her age is catching up to her.  I have to say I'm disappointed with their decision but I still support it.  She is still the great Zenyatta to me.  Obviously, this proves the fact that they really don't care about the HOTY award otherwise they would change the schedule from last year.  It seems they really just want to race her fun, and if that's what makes my Zenyatta happy and racing then so be it.

09 Jun 2010 5:47 PM
jayjay

The addition of Zardana pretty much confirms that they really really want the record.  Zardana was added to be the rabbit for Zenyatta, am I all for it ??  YES!!! hehe.

09 Jun 2010 6:28 PM
Draynay

Tim, you need to come to grips with the fact Z is a average dirt horse and nothing more.  You will NEVER see her race on dirt again.

11 Jun 2010 9:54 AM

Recent Posts

Resources

Recommended Links

Video

Twitter

More Blogs

Archives