BloodHorse.com

Horse Not For the Course?

195 Comments

Despite a couple of concerns, Rick Dutrow Jr. is confident that with Boys At Tosconova he has a horse that will be a leading contender Kentucky Derby (gr. I) contender by the time May 7, 2011 rolls around.

Though not blessed with the ideal 10-furlong pedigree, Dutrow is not troubled about Boys at Tosconova's ability to get the distance. And even though he admits that Uncle Mo, who squashed Boys At Tosconova by more than four lengths in the Grey Goose Breeders' Cup Juvenile (gr. I) last month, is better right now, he is optimistic that time will help close the gap between the two rivals.

Neither of those two things bothers Dutrow right now. According to him, the thing that concerns him most is the dirt at Churchill Downs.

"Ramon (Dominguez) didn't think he handled the track well," Dutrow said on Dec. 14. "He said he was fighting it the whole way and had his ears pinned. He definitely likes other tracks more. Both of his losses have been at Churchill, which isn't good. But there is nothing we can do about it because they run the big race there. I might be praying for rain that week."

Boys At Tosconova, who was second in his racing debut in the April 30 Kentucky Juvenile (gr. III) at Churchill, has had three easy works since the BC Juvenile including his last one on Dec. 9 at Gulfstream. He will likely remain in Florida until the Derby and will have only two preps.

Dutrow said the first one will be the one-mile Holy Bull (gr. III) on Jan. 30 at Gulfstream. The plan after that is the Florida Derby (gr. I) on April 3. The trainer believes that's all he'll need to be ready to fire his best shot at the Triple Crown.

"We give him plenty of time between races. It's not like we drill him every day," said Dutrow when asked about his decision to keep him in training at the end of his 2-year-old season rather than give him some time off. "He's fresh and fast, and he should hold up all year.

"He doesn't need a ton of work, it's not like he carries a ton of weight. He's a simple horse to train."

Boys At Tosconova, who broke his maiden by 12 at Belmont and then won the Hopeful (gr. I), was expected by many (including myself), to give Uncle Mo a fight in the BC Juvenile. But it turned out to be no contest, as Uncle Mo ran him into the ground in one of the most impressive Juvenile performances ever. The good news is that Boys was well clear of the rest of the field. The bad news is that he will likely have to face Mo again on the first Saturday in May.

"He ran away from us, no doubt about it," Dutrow said of Uncle Mo, who will not run in the Holy Bull and will probably go in the Wood Memorial for his final prep. "We'll hopefully take another shot at him (in the Derby), but it's not like we want to run against him now."

Though not as good as Boys At Tosconova right now, Dutrow has another 3-year-old that he is hopeful will make a splash on the Triple Crown trail. He is Rustler Hustler, who will make his graded stakes debut in Saturday's CashCall Futurity (gr. I) at Hollywood. A son of Ecton Park out of the Cozzene mare Cozzy Temper, the chestnut colt was bought privately by a group led by Paul Pompa Jr. after winning the Aug. 14 Continental Mile on the Monmouth turf.

Previously trained by Tim Hamm, Rustler Hustler won the two-turn Gnome's Gold Stakes on the Belmont turf Oct. 31 in his first start for Dutrow and also has a maiden victory on the Presque Isle Downs synthetic surface. Dutrow is expecting him to run well this weekend and would like to try dirt after that.

"The horse is doing really good," he said. "In (the Gnome's Gold) he blew the break and still won pretty easily. He trains very well on dirt, so I would run him on it in a minute. We'll see what happens Saturday and go from there."

195 Comments:

Many horses don't like the track at Churchill, Easy Goer pops right to mind. Not sure why that track is like that, but tough on a horse who doesn't like it.

Mokey 16 Dec 2010 10:06 AM

BAT is the word !  I was there and saw BAT vs. Mo and Mo did win but the track was very sticky that day and a lot of horses didn't like it. Mo is going to go in undefeated to the Kentucky Derby and it will be very hard not to cheer for him but I am still a big BAT fan.  See you all at Gulfstream and have a Merry Xmas and wonderful New Year.

Draynay 16 Dec 2010 10:08 AM

He beats the rest of the field by open lengths and he doesn't like the track? He was second in his debute, which was a stakes race and he doesn't like the track? Dutrow comes up with too many excuses. I like the horse, but he ran into a buzzsaw in Mo and was thrown in to stakes in his first try, both very good excuses to come in second.

TradingPlaces 16 Dec 2010 10:16 AM

I like both Boys and Mo, although at this point Uncle Mo is clearly the stand out on dirt. I am really interested to see if Pluck can handle the dirt. I know he worked on the dirt prior to the Juvi Turf, but no published work since that race. I can't help but wonder what his connections have planned for him. His last to first in the Juvi Turf was extremely impressive, given the fact that Rough Sailing went down right in front of him after a bad break. I think he could give Mo a run for his money.

Criminal Type 16 Dec 2010 10:52 AM

Jason,

Do you know if Dutrow will leave Rustler Hustler in California for the winter?

I know that Asmussen will have some 30 horses at Santa Anita, but I haven't heard anything about Dutrow.

I'm hoping that the new dirt track and the increase in purses lure some of the trainers who haven't been coming our way in recent years.

Zookeeper 16 Dec 2010 11:11 AM

Zookeeper: I think they might. With Santa Anita now dirt they may leave him there instead of going to Florida.

Jason Shandler 16 Dec 2010 11:43 AM

Criminal Type - Here's a little piece on Pluck after Vinery Australia bought a piece into him.

“Plus, the arrangement allows us to fulfill our racing dreams, which includes winning the Irish Two Thousand Guineas (Ire-I). The only other (American-trained) horse to win the race was Fourstars Allstar in 1991.”

The Guineas is run at a mile at the Curragh in the spring.

Plans call for Pluck to run twice in the United States before heading to Ireland."

The Rock 16 Dec 2010 11:51 AM

Jason,

With the soon to be 3 year old division looking pretty thin on quality at this point out West, do you think we might see a spike on horses shipping West to take advantage of Magna's Preakness incentive program?

The Rock 16 Dec 2010 11:54 AM

Interesting question Rock. I have no idea what the answer is yet but it's certainly intriguing for owners.

Jason Shandler 16 Dec 2010 12:00 PM

Take a look at Mulhall's horse Industry Leader in Saturday's Cash Call Futurity.  He's a big horse with a big stride that should move foward going longer.  Barns very high on him and she showed in the Kentucky Derby with Imperialism a few years back.  

Householder 16 Dec 2010 12:23 PM

Boys should be going to SA and showing off that speed. He could love it there. The idea that Boys has to go to The Derby when he doesn't like the surface and has less than an ideal pedigree for 10f is absurd. Looks like they might be determined to ruin another one that could be great at 7f or a mile. I'd point to the BC Mile with him. When did they pass that law that every talented horse has to go to The Derby? Boys has a long ways to go to prove that he belongs in The Derby. By belong I mean that he can finish in the Top Three, not that he can be in the starting gate. Merry Christmas Zookeeper.

Dr Drunkinbum 16 Dec 2010 12:36 PM

Anyone who watches the stride that Uncle Mo has, coupled with Pletcher's confidence that Mo will only get better through next year, would have a hard time believing that Mo won't win the Triple Crown-easily.

Rarely do we see a MSW winner go right to graded company, which Mo did in the Champagne, and then win the BC Juvenile effortlessly. Even Secretariat did not win in this fashion, and Mo's beyer of 108 in the BC is astonishing, taken in the context with his improving into next year. That could mean 120 beyers, and probably the best 3 year old since Secretariat. I hate to say it, but BAT and the others are just filling races to give Mo some exercise partners. otherwise, there is no one who can defeat him. No one.

BAT's cult of personality reminds me of Curlin's. Curlin lost to Rags to Riches because she was the better of the two that Belmont day, and after seeing that race, I thought Curlin was overrated. Just as BAT is overrated.

In any case BAT can't get 10 furlongs, and if his connections try, they will ruin him. Mo will outperform any doubts regarding distance concerns with Indian Charlie. Of course, we have seen superstars before, and Mo could end up an Arazi, or Proud Appeal (remember him).  I just can't believe no one sees the brilliance of Mo, because he is just that with his stride and ability to toy with other colts.

jon 16 Dec 2010 12:46 PM

Aside from the fact that "Boys" has nowhere near the breeding and bloodline to win a mile and one quarter race, it is hard to root for any horse with Dutrow as the trainer.

OLD TIMER 16 Dec 2010 1:12 PM

Rock, Thanks..and yea I read that after I posted my comments. I am dissapointed. He's a really nice colt with a lot of talent. I hope he comes back here in the fall for the Breeders Cup. Im assuming he is in Florida with the rest of the Motion bunch right now. Im curious to see where he will run next, guessing it will be one of the Beach stakes (Dania, Hallendale, Palm) at Gulfstream.

Criminal Type 16 Dec 2010 1:13 PM

Does anyone know where they plan to run To Honor and Serve? I think he's super talented and should only get better with age and distance.

As far as Churchill Downs, Skip Away also hated it. A monster everywhere he raced except there where  he ran like a 5,000 claimer.

Southern Chris 16 Dec 2010 1:15 PM

jon - I think that Uncle Mo is extremely talented and is a beast.  However, I think some of your statements are a bit over the top for now.  First, nobody wins the Triple Crown easily.  That is why it is so difficult to do.

As to your comment about not even Secretariat winning the way Uncle Mo did, go back and watch Secretariat's two year old races.  I think if you watch his Sanford Stakes win you will see a turn of foot not seen from a two-year old before or since.

Also, best 3 year old since Secretariat.  There have been a few all-timers since Secretariat by the names of Seattle Slew, Affirmed and Spectacular Bid.  Thoses horses are Thoroughbred Royalty.  Throw in Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Point Given and Afleet Alex and you have some pretty special 3 year old colts.

I hope Uncle Mo accomplishes enough to put him in the pantheon of those 1970's superstars I have listed.  But let's not anoint him just yet.

jason 16 Dec 2010 1:54 PM

Well put Jason #2

The Rock 16 Dec 2010 2:08 PM

Sorry, posted my last comment under the moniker "jason" rather than my normal one.

2:24 16 Dec 2010 2:18 PM

Jason #2 well put and Jon Curlin was not overrated he was a beast and would go on my beast list if I made one. Every year we get all excited about the next superstart and the last 2 years we have seen a scratch on derby day. I love Mo and he is awesome but its way to early to call him a triple crown winner. Afleet Alex and Bernadini will have some good colts next year. Any news on The pamelmousse and I want revenge are they both retired now if so how sad!

In aint easy being good! 16 Dec 2010 2:29 PM

I tell ya'll BaT's pedigree is gonna get him at ten furlongs.  He's not a derby-type horse.  He's a good colt but those Officers refuse to go very long.  He'll be a very good sprinter-miler type though, or even better considering how easily he relaxes and does what the jockey asks.  I hope that Rick dutrow figures his limitations out sooner than later because he looks like one that could take on older horses from early and whip them at his optimum distances IMO.

Ranagulzion 16 Dec 2010 2:40 PM

The Pamplemousse is indeed retired to Rancho San Miguel in California for the 2011 breeding season. I really liked him, damn shame he was injured. I Want Revenge worked yesterday at Aquaduct.

Criminal Type 16 Dec 2010 2:45 PM

Dr Drunkinbum,

Merry Christmas to you!!! and to all my blog friends also.

My biggest present will be Opening Day at Santa Anita on Dec. 26th. Can't wait!!!

Zookeeper 16 Dec 2010 2:52 PM

I want revenge is being pointed to the Donn Handicap.

Trebloc 16 Dec 2010 2:56 PM

HAHAHA....I love horse racing fans.  It is only December 16th and we have had somebody already give Mo the Triple Crown. I will admit to being a huge fan and he certainly looks the part and maybe could fill a little of the Zenyatta void but the best horse on the first Saturday in May could very well still be in the barn awaiting his (or her) 1st big race.  

Richie D 16 Dec 2010 2:56 PM

i think tha bat could probably get the 10 furlongs with the right trip and pace, but i'm looking at to honor and serve and uncle mo to be the stars next year. also have anybody knows why jancito didn't run in the cashcall futurity?

josue555 16 Dec 2010 3:34 PM

Jaycito was given a little time off. Baffert was supposed to run Awesome Patriot; not sure why he didnt.

Jason Shandler 16 Dec 2010 3:39 PM

I meant BC Dirt Mile, although I think they should get rid of the Marathon, and add a 7f dirt race for the males, and then I could point Boys to the 7f or dirt mile depending on what his niche turns out to be. I think he's talented but I would be shocked if he does well in The Derby with his running style and pedigree. Is he going to run anymore races before The Derby or are they going to train up to it? Did Homeboy recover from that travesty yet?

Dr Drunkinbum 16 Dec 2010 3:41 PM

Proud Appeal (remember him).

QUOTE from Jon.

Yes.  He was my '81 Derby pick.

Whatever happened to him anyway?

Time to do some Googling.

DawnStorm 16 Dec 2010 3:43 PM

Jason,

I do enjoy these interviews.  BAT will not win the Derby with only two preps and I do not see Ecton Park siring a Derby winner.  

In all honestly, I do not see anyone coming out the Cash Call having an impact in the Derby.  I would love to see Honor and Serve go west.  Uncle Mo to the Wood, Brethren to the Ark Derby,  Stay Thirsty to the LA Derby, Dialed In to the Florida Derby, Santiva to the Bluegrass and Grip Hands to a MSW.  

Trebloc 16 Dec 2010 4:21 PM

js is right on, homeboy last year these guys wanna prep their horses 2 times in 5 months. its insane. that way they dont have to find out they dont belong. then the usual nosense how he had a fever or had a bad trip. then 3 months later their in the kings bishop. discreetly mine. i have respect for dutrow, and pletcher, but their trying to appease the owners, so they can make an appearance on derby day.boys isnt a derby horse, period. he has a ton of talent, but not at 10 fur. plus the BC is represented by about 15 % of the class.

bustout 16 Dec 2010 4:26 PM

So many great great horses hated the Churchill Downs track- Easy Goer, Holy Bull, Skip Away, Damascus,Hansel,Empire Maker and then you have other greats who lost the Derby for a variety of reasons like Native Dancer,Nashua,Bold Ruler,Afleet Alex,Curlin,Point Given,Risen Star,Arts and Letters, Sword Dancer,Round Table,etc! JShandler, why so many great horses(not calling Boys as Tosconova great) despise the Churchill track? Any ideas?

ThoroGreats 16 Dec 2010 4:27 PM

Trebloc,

Why are you interested in Grip Hands? Are you part of that partnership?

I saw him in the paddock at HP before his first race. He's gorgeous and looked very professional. So... he didn't run to his looks but it was only his first race. I'm far from done watching him. What peaked your interest about him?

Zookeeper 16 Dec 2010 4:34 PM

Horses either like the Churchill track or they don't. To bad for BAT. If he turns out to be that much better than the rest and gets a good post and trip maybe he can overcome. The Derby these days is not turning out to be a true test of the best 3 yr old anyway. Between the way the graded stakes earnings are tabulated and the 20 horse field it's turning out to mostly be a test of luck rather than talent. I know nothing can be done about the off track, but there are definately some changes that can be made to give the best 3 yr olds a more equal chance to see who is the best rather than the luckiest. Speaking of luck- LAL is a perfect exsmple of what I'm talking about. When a horse breaks right into the inner rail that is not a fair or safe way of beginning any race, let alone one of the most prestigous we have in this country. A field size of 14-16 would be much more appropriate, but the almighty dollar always reins supreme. I'm interested to see how Brethren and Jaycito come along, especially now that Jaycito is with Baffert.

WILD HORSES 16 Dec 2010 4:57 PM

Trebloc they probably run to honor and serve in the florida derby or the wood since he likes the track, I heard his next start is in the fountain of youth, jaycito should be the california horse to watch this spring.

josue555 16 Dec 2010 4:58 PM

My biggest concern..and question is ''Who will stay healthy?''

Just look at Eskendereya, I want revenge....I hope Uncle Mo won't follow the same path

At least I'm happy that he's not a Unbridled's song horse since a LOT of unbridled's Song top progeny got hurt in the last couple of years (Dunkirk, Eight Belles, Old Fashionned, Midshipman, Winslow Homer...)

Katie 16 Dec 2010 5:28 PM

Zookeeper,  I learned a couple of years ago to own horses either go it alone or with a group of good friends.  

Now onto Grip hands.  I just find it comical when Westpoint spends $500k on colt that is consigned by the same guys that break their yearlings and runs dead last in his first race. Kind of makes you wonder.  Not to mention that they probably marked up the colt another $150K-$250K.  

Trebloc 16 Dec 2010 6:09 PM

It is really important that the horse likes Churchill - Uncle Mo showed he can fly over the track, and Nick's horse, Dialed In, is also  a nice winner here.  I don't see BAT in the money next spring.

skyfire 16 Dec 2010 6:46 PM

jason youare right. I really think Boys At Toscanova could have won if Uncle Mo wasn't there but then again mabye he wouldn't espically since he doesn't like the track. i hope to see more of him in 2011.

Savanna 16 Dec 2010 7:21 PM

Everyone keeps talking about BaT being ruined by being pointed to the Derby trail. Just looking back at the last year, wasn't Discreetly Mine on the Derby trail, and in the Derby?  Pretty sure D'Funnybone and eightfiveinafifty were on the derby trail at one point to, and they all ended up fine as sprinters, lets not overreact here. BaT ran pretty well in the Juv, and if he struggles on the road to the Derby, that's what the G2 Woody Stephens (on belmont day) is for...

Good to here I Want Revenge is on the way back if thats true Trebloc

It's been 32 years and it's still 31.5 furlongs away... 16 Dec 2010 10:13 PM

So a more precocious 2 yr old wins the BC Juvenile.  I'm shocked, SHOCKED.  Seriously folks, these are babies and Uncle Mo looked like a 3-4 year old and Bat looked like the baby he is.

So he lost by 4 at two.  To me, BaT a lot of upside and with 6 months of growing who knows which horse will be at his peak if either.

We've had one BC Juvenile winner take the roses and some are ready to crown Uncle Mo the next Secretariat.  Does the name Arazi mean anything to anyone?

Horses sometimes don't like a track on a certain day but come back later to love it.  

I'll wait a few months before I write BaT off as some seem to have done.

Lmaris 16 Dec 2010 10:24 PM

Interesting conversation. BAT is a very nice horse but he has no chance against a healthy Uncle Mo. Just don't see it. Agree with Dr Drunkinbum they should shoot for shorter races with BAT. If Mo stays healthy (I keep saying that for a reason), I think he has a very good shot at the Triple Crown. I don't see anyone else in his league. At least not yet.

I think keeping these talented horses healthy is the the bottom line. All the talent in the world is moot if you have an injured or sick horse. Just ask the owners of Eskendereya. He had the potential to be something very special.

Have a nice Christmas everyone and Happy New Year.

Paula Higgins 16 Dec 2010 10:36 PM

I love BAT. he is a hardworking horse and reminds me a little of Noble's Promise. I personally think he can outrun his pedigree but maybe not all other 19 horses in the derby. He will be fun to watch this 3 year old season. Jason, do you know the plans for Rogue Romance?

RJPPDP 16 Dec 2010 11:36 PM

I don't feel like Dutrow is doing the colt any favors by throwing him into the Triple Crown after having run him only 3 times in 6 months. If he wins the Derby, he'll be expected to go on to the Preakness two weeks later. How is it fair to the horse to train him and race him so lightly and then suddenly expect him to perform at his best in up to three grueling races in five weeks? And it's not just Dutrow. I'm looking at Pletcher too. These guys may win the Derby, but neither of them will ever win the Triple Crown, even if they're training the next Secretariat, because they don't train for the TC.

Kim 16 Dec 2010 11:55 PM

Jon:

We rarely see a MSW winner go straight to graded stakes company and win? We see it every year with every new batch of 2-year-olds. Uncle Mo has been very impressive, but he hasn't done anything to set himself apart historically, even for the last 10-15 years. I think he is very comparable to '07 Juvy champ, War Pass. The only promising difference is Mo's early indication that he will calmly rate.

Dr. Drunkinbum:

So...you want to add a 7f Breeders' Cup race? If I read that right, there would be a 6f open sprint, a 7f open sprint, and a one-mile dirt race on the BC program. No no no, we need to have fewer races to prevent further watering down of the main races. I think this illustrates the impact races such as the Dirt Mile, let alone an additional 7f race, have on the premier BC races.

Poor Churchill handlers:

Churchill may appear to have more "epic fails" simply from the spotlight of the Derby and hosting the most Breeders' Cups. Every track, dirt or turf, has really good horses that toil and flop on it. Off the top of my head, the most notable was the underrated Sightseek and her disdain for Santa Anita. However, I do think Keeneland's old main track was the most extreme overall love/hate surface I've ever seen.

Boys at Tosconova will not get 10 poles...

because of Dutrow's conditioning, not BAT's pedigree. He can do it (e.g.- Big Brown), but his outline won't give this horse enough foundation for the Preakness, let alone the Derby. But how many times must we be fooled before we stop using pedigree as a means to discount a horse's distance potential? Smarty Jones, Big Brown, Came Home, and Peace Rules are just a few that come to mind. Most people thought they had no chance at 10 furlongs, because of their pedigree. Sure, it would seem BAT is more inclined to be a miler type, but a talented horse, if conditioned properly, can be any kind. Conditioned properly...hmmm.

Reason, Voice O. 17 Dec 2010 12:00 AM

Can't wait to see more of Uncle Mo next year and the rivalry between the two horses.

The other two year olds am looking forward to seeing next year; Poseidon's Warrior, Grant Jack (Harlan's Holiday colt), and I don't know a whole lot other than his 10L (if I recall) maiden score at Lone Star, Brickyard Fast, a Sharp Humor colt. Also Clubhouse Ride (Candy Ride). Here's to a great 2011! Happy New Year and Merry Xmas to everyone. Safe travels, etc.

Does anyone know where Awesome Act is at? Thanks!

ZJ 17 Dec 2010 12:37 AM

Jason,

“Uncle Mo ran him into the ground in one of the most impressive Juvenile performances ever”

I would have no problem with the above statement if was followed by the words “In my opinion”

The above is yet another over the top statement about a horse connected to the Todd Pletcher program. As brilliant a writer as you are you must recognize that you will be required to justify claims of ‘best performance ever’ Could your admiration of Todd Pletcher’s program be the influence behind these indefensible statements?

I would appreciate you highlighting the basis of the above determination. Below are three BCJ performances that supersede that of Uncle Mo. I expect one to be disputed as it was contested on a synthetic track.

Arazi: His breathe taking move to engage and past uncontested leader Afternoon Delight has never been seen before or since. Anyone that saw that performance and rank Uncle Mo’s performance above it is in a serious state of denial.

Street Sense: He likewise made a devastating move to record the biggest winning margin in a faster time than Uncle Mo. He disappeared from the field in the stretch and was geared down at the end. Uncle Mo did not perform a disappearing act, Street Sense did.

Vale Of York: Shipped in from Italy to take on the undefeated and subsequent champion 2YO Lookin At Lucky. He almost unseated his rider shortly after the gate. He was blocked at the top of the stretch and had to be steadied. His ground along the rail was again taken by Piscatelli a furlong and a half from the wire. His rider was in a hold mode awaiting room that came very late. He had to be checked off two horses to get room and when it became available he shot through the narrowest of opening to rally for an unbelievable victory.

I have been watching thoroughbred racing for along time and under no circumstance would I rank Uncle Mo’s BCJ performance as the best ever. The classification of his performance should remain in the impressive category as it was simply that. Best ever is not applicable and cannot be justified by the most ardent of Uncle Mo supporters.

Coldfacts 17 Dec 2010 1:50 AM

Jason,

I cannot get an angle on this colt. He clearly has a lot of ability but his pedigree is several generations removed from Derby contention. His sire line goes back to influential In Reality. The In Reality line appears twice on the broodmare side of the derby chart but is nonexistent on the sire side. Two of In Reality’s sons (Smile/Believe It) have been broodmare sires of derby winners (Smarty Jones/Real Quiet) His dam line goes back to the influential Mr. Prospector. The Mr. Prospector broodmare line broke through for derby success with Barbaro and followed up with Mine That Bird. The dams of Barbaro and Mine That Bird were sired by sons of Mr. P. BAT dam sire is the rarely seen Coronado Quest as grandson of Mr. P. It possible he could win the derby but I would not put him in the top spot on my chart as he does not fit a derby winner’s profile. The major positive for this colt must be his grandsire Relaunch. He has the distinction of being both sire and dam sire of two winners of the Breeders Cup Classic (Sky Walker/Ghostzapper) He is no Big Brown so his trainer can forget the 2011 Derby.

Coldfacts 17 Dec 2010 1:50 AM

Considering May is a long way away I wouldnt toot any colts horns right now for the Derby. I think its comical when everyone makes crazy statements at this point in the year. Too many babies havent even run yet to see who is for real. I love Uncle Mo, think hes an extremely nice colt but lets not get ahead of ourselves here folks. What happened to Eskenderya? I want Revenge?

Uncle Mo looks great, love him, not sure about his trainer getting him there healthy.

SophieK 17 Dec 2010 7:41 AM

josue555,

You are correct Honor and Serve will probably run in the FL Derby. However, it would be pretty cool if the top two Derby contenders faced off in the Wood!

Trebloc 17 Dec 2010 7:43 AM

Jason,

Correction to my post. Arazi past uncontested leader Bertrando.

Coldfacts 17 Dec 2010 8:09 AM

Although I really like this colt, I do not like putting the cart in front of the horse,excuse the pun. The Derby is so far off, and the path for a young horse is full of ways to get hurt or moved to the sidelines for other reasons. I think it is a little early to place this horse in the starting gate. My hope is to see him grow and improve and turn into a nice stakes horse. As a fan I just want to see the horse do well and retire sound. If that means the Derby is not in the program so be it.

Cris 17 Dec 2010 8:18 AM

Believe Dutrow.....he just likes to talk! His horses are very good, but he's nutty.

ocalamichael@embarqmail 17 Dec 2010 8:19 AM

One word....Brethren

Tiznow Tim 17 Dec 2010 8:53 AM

Coldfacts: My comment was that his performance was "one of the best" BC Juvy's ever. Not THE best. If you a) cannot see that it was indeed one of the best and b) are actually comparing Vale of York's Juvy win to Mo's, than it is worthless for me to debate you. Carry on with your pedigree analysis in which you like to tell us each horse "has no chance of winning the Derby."

Jason Shandler 17 Dec 2010 11:24 AM

Dr. Drunkinbum - the owners want to show up and stroke their ego on Derby Day, whether the horse can run 10f, or not - unfortunately

Old Timer - agree: Dutrow sure took any fun out of Big brown for me (hated the stupid expose' on BC broadcast)

I a e b g - Curlin crumbled after he got off the steroids. Definitely NOT a beast...

goodwin 17 Dec 2010 11:24 AM

Reason, Voice O

   You're probably right about watering it down too much but I disagree about the dirt mile. It is a premiere race. So is the 6f. I was looking at it from the perspective of having races that are run throughout the year, which the dirt marathon isn't. And I don't even think it's a grade one BC.

goodwin

   I like the old trainers that used to stand up to the owners.  "You want to run him in THAT race !!! It ain't happening unless you want to get yourself another trainer."

Paula Higgins

    Merry Christmas !!!!!

Dr Drunkinbum 17 Dec 2010 12:07 PM

Tiznow Tim,

I like your thinking!!  Brethren all the way!

Trebloc 17 Dec 2010 12:34 PM

Jason, if you can't see that Uncle Mo is clearly the best since Secretariat you are blind and he will easily win the Triple Crown.  Is it Xmas yet ?  Don't dismiss the Bat !

Draynay 17 Dec 2010 1:37 PM

Happy Holidays to all! I hope you all have a pleasant and safe holiday season.  

Billy's Empire 17 Dec 2010 2:10 PM

Mo looked great in the Juvy, but they were all 2-y-o. There is a lot of growth and physical development to take place from the Juvy to the Derby.

Mo could level out in his development and others could experience a spurt. Mo looked sensational at the BC, but it is more than a bit premature to crown him as a TC lock.

Sir Barton 17 Dec 2010 2:39 PM

Dray,

That was not a response to you, btw. It was to someone upthread who has already annointed Mo has the next TC winner. Enjoy Gulfstream this year, and say high to "B" for me.

Sir Barton 17 Dec 2010 2:42 PM

A year ago, who were we talking about?  Lookin At Lucky and Buddy's Saint.  Lucky made it to the Derby but got beat up in it.  Buddy's Saint didn't even make it to the Derby...I'm just saying, it's simply too early for all this speculation.

Slew 17 Dec 2010 3:01 PM

Forgot to ask if anyone is interested in doing a guest blog next week when Im off. Short notice I know but if you are let me know. Thanks. jshandler@bloodhorse.com

Jason Shandler 17 Dec 2010 3:14 PM

Coldfacts,

I do believe the horse Arazi passed was Bertrando who was on the lead.

MonicaV 17 Dec 2010 3:32 PM

I'd say that Boys At Tosconova will be a top three year old next year for the Kentucky Derby or for the Triple Crown races. He finished second to a monster of a horse and according to Rick he didn't even handle the track, and he came off of a layoff not to mention coming off of 7 furlongs in the Hopeful. He had some good excuses in the Juvenile. I'm not saying that he would have beat Uncle Mo, but he overcame a few things which says a lot about this horse's talent.

Dan 17 Dec 2010 3:39 PM

Yes, Uncle Mo is impressive but we don't know what will happen in the next 4 months.  As far as his being the best since Secretariat I think that may be a premature statement, Draynay.  There are horses that will be maturing and getting better.  It happens time and time again that you see a brilliant flash like Uncle Mo and they don't make it to the Derby (I Want Revenge, Eskenderrya, Vindication etc.)  Let's hope Uncle Mo does make it without problems and stays safe and sound.

MonicaV 17 Dec 2010 3:40 PM

Like I sais before, here we go with the Uncle Mo bashing. I just don't get it. I will say it again, Uncle Mo's debut was the most impressive debut I have ever seen and even better than Formal Gold's debut since Formal Gold made his debut as a 3 year old at Monmouth and Uncle Mo's was as a 2 year old. BAT and To Honor and Serve are not even in the same league as Uncle Mo. BAT and Uncle Mo can face each other at 5 furlongs or 10 furlongs and Uncle Mo will always just pull away from him in the stretch while being hand ridden. To Honor and Serve is way too slow, so how did he get a 102 beyer in the Remson and Uncle Mo only gets a 94 in the Champagne? That 94 should have been a 104. It doesn't matter what the track variant was because he came home in 24 flat after getting 6 furlongs in 1:10.2 while just cruising while being pressured the whole way. It's jaw dropping to see a colt with so much speed getting faster the longer he goes. Uncle Mo reminds me of Riva Ridge who had speed and could win at any distance. I just wish he was having 3 preps starting with the Hutcheson because 2 preps I think can leave a colt a little light on foundation going into the Triple Crown and 4 preps like Smarty Jones had probably cost him the Triple Crown.

Tim 17 Dec 2010 3:56 PM

"A year ago, who were we talking about?  Lookin At Lucky and Buddy's Saint.  Lucky made it to the Derby but got beat up in it.  Buddy's Saint didn't even make it to the Derby...I'm just saying, it's simply too early for all this speculation."

Wouldn't say that. With a better post, I think Lucky would have had something to say about the Derby finish. He showed his heels to the same 3yos in his subsequent starts.

But Remsen winners aren't looking good historically. Demand another or two good performances from a Remsen winner before backing. Not enough 2yos are ready for 9f; they should have left it a one-turn mile. Heck, they should have left the BC Juvie a one-turn mile.

Pedigree Ann 17 Dec 2010 4:05 PM

You too Billy.  And Happy Holidays to everyone else too.

Footlick 17 Dec 2010 4:25 PM

Jason,

 Just watched the THS on the Cash Call. Is it cold where you work or is Tom going for the gangsta rap look?

longwaytomay 17 Dec 2010 4:34 PM

lol Longway: Funny you should say that. We had dinner with Tom and his wife last night and she was making fun of his hat. Secretly, he does want to be a rap star. Unfortunately, there isnt much of a market for that in Lexington right now.

Jason Shandler 17 Dec 2010 4:42 PM

Tell him to stick to capping the ponies. He's not bad, but just like the rest of us he could step it up a notch. I do like his pick in the Cash Call.

longwaytomay 17 Dec 2010 4:48 PM

No one is bashing Uncle Mo. He is an impressive unbeaten colt. A lot of impressive 2YOs are not as impressive as 3YOs. The reason is simply, some 2YOs mature faster than others. Because they are more advance at a particular point, they are able to beat crap out of their counterparts with similar ability. When other 2YOs catch up, which they normally do, these impressive 2YOs turn 3YOs are no longer as awesome in their performance. You mentioned that Uncle Mo debut was the most impressive you have ever seen. Do you realize the Brethren ran 1:08 plus on his debut. His winning time was much faster than the 1:09 plus recorded by Uncle Mo. He did it under an enormous amount of pressure for a colt that does not possess a sprinter pedigree. You also mentioned that To Honor and Serve is way too slow.  Do you realize that he recorded a mile split of 1:36 plus in the Remsen? The average mile split for the last 10 derbies excluding those contested on a sloppy tracks is 1:36 plus. A colt with a router pedigree is not going to flash the speed shown Uncle Mo. Remember the race is not given to the swift but to those who endure to the end. To Honor and Serve is bred for endurance not speed.

Coldfacts 17 Dec 2010 5:01 PM

Will Smith's Gettin' Jiggy With It is one of my favorite songs. ... I wear the hat to get used to it for when I eventually perform. ... J is right about dinner. My wife--who I believe bought me the hat if I remember correctly--laid into me after she watched the show and said I looked like a thug. I reminded her I'm from New Jersey. She threatened J if he allowed me to wear it again. ... As for my handicapping, I do just fine picking winners at prices at Turfway. Money is money. ... Na na na na na na na, na na na na na na, as they say on the outskirts of Philly. Don't be silly.

JerseyTom 17 Dec 2010 5:18 PM

MonicaV:

I posted a correction.

Draynay,

Opinions can differ and based on Jason’s many supporters there are plenty to go around. Cold Facts are facts can be verified from official records. The best two 2YOs since Secretariat are the following:

Arazi:

American Champion Two-Year-Old Colt (1991)

European Champion Two-Year-Old Colt (1991)

European Horse of the Year (1991)

Like Uncle Mo he won the BCJ while undefeated. It was his 7th consecutive victory. Did youk now he did not change his lead in the stretch and he passed Bertrando like he was glued to the ground..

Favorite Trick:

1997 Horse Of The Year & Champion Two Year Old Colt. Undefeated in 8 starts at two.

You will note that the two colts above were voted HOY as 2YOs.How many HOY votes do you think Uncle Mo will get at the eclipse awards? I beseech you not to allow your passion for Uncle Mo to distort your thinking. He is a nice colt do not put him on a pedestal he has not achieved.

Coldfacts 17 Dec 2010 5:21 PM

Jason and Jersy Tom,

I have the same hat and the ladies love it.  The thug look is making a comeback! Happy Holidays!  

The momentum for Brethren is starting!  Super Charger the first to foal two KY Derby winners!!

Trebloc 17 Dec 2010 5:46 PM

Merry christmas to you too Dr Drunkinbum! Maybe you should do the guest blog???!

Paula Higgins 17 Dec 2010 7:38 PM

Let's not forget La Prevoyante who was a two-year old the same year as Secretariat and was 11 for 11, I think, in Canada and the US

Footlick 17 Dec 2010 8:50 PM

JASON,

"Uncle Mo ran three of the most impressive consecutive 2-year-old races in a long time"

Those are your words from your Blog entitled "Its time to turn the page" and I agree with you 100%  It was quite obvious that COLDFACTS was not impressed with "Mo" from day one, as he strongly touted JB's Thunder, Rouge Romance and Biondetti to upstage Uncle Mo. Apparently Uncle Mo's smashing victory in the BCJ was not enough to force a reassessment from him therefore we should let "Mo" continue to pile on the cold facts of his brilliance until COLDFACTS yields.  He has very short memory whenever his arguments have been vanquished and he believes that the rest of us forget just as quickly.

As for Favourite Trick, I was a big fan of that horse but i have to admit that he was grossly overrated, a mere puff of a champion and the biggest HOTY trickster of all time. There's no way that he could match strides with "Mo".

Ranagulzion 17 Dec 2010 10:20 PM

I'm with you Jason, "Mo" was extremely impressive.  That said, it's always a tall order for them to get to the race, so I think we are all "let's see."  But, we have to recognize the brilliance.  I'd like to see the other Dutrow (Tony) get there this year and maybe one of his Delaware/Philly babies can take some major steps forward at Oaklawn this Spring.  Nice to see the Blog.

Elusive Quality 8 17 Dec 2010 10:55 PM

Footlick

La Preyvoyante was actually 12 for 12 at two, won 6 stakes in the US and 3 in Canada including one against the boys, was top two year in Canada and the US and HOY in Canada in 1972.  The thing a lot of people forget is that when Secretariat was HOY as a 2 year old in 1972, La Prevoyante was runner-up in the voting.  I saw her race several times.  She was practically unbeatable at the shorter distances, but suspect when stretching out and blew a monsterous lead in the Queen's Plate and finished up the track.  She was probably Buckpasser's best daughter to go along with relaxing and Numbered Account.

LAZMANNICK 17 Dec 2010 11:09 PM

Zookeeper

  I.m glad to see you look forward

to Dec.26th,opening day at Santa Anita.It really is the unofficial start to big time racing for 2011.

There are 3 days I look forward to each year,the first Saturday in May,Kentucky Derby and English 2000

Guineas day.The first Saturday in June,Belmont and Epsom Derby day.And the first Sunday in October

Arc day.It,s not to say I don,t enjoy the other 362 days as you can find a new champion on any given day.

John T 17 Dec 2010 11:27 PM

Footlick

 La Prevoyante was by Buckpasser

out of the Nearctic mare Artic Dancer who was a full sister to Natalma,the dam of Northern Dancer.

She was the North American 2 year old champion filly of 1972

winning such races as the Spinaway

and the Selima Stakes at Laurel Park at that time a very important

race for 2 year old fillies.With her breeding we can only wonder what she could have produced as sadly she died in a race as a 4 year old.

John T 17 Dec 2010 11:58 PM

I heard from many/including jocks like Gomez--the BC track was tough--doesn't mean he won't handle it in May--I'm guessing they deepened it a bit with sand, and the rains didn;t happen--no biggie, it was a bit deep--they'll tighten it up a bit for the derby, I'm guessing--I thought he looked pretty good, myself--I don't care where they race, Uncle Mo's gonna clean his clock!

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 12:02 AM

Uncle Mo won't get one first place vote for HOY--Secretariat ran many more races--Uncle Mo is more like the precocious Seattle Slew--everyone--I mean everyone--knew Secretariat was the best horse on the planet--Uncle Mo ain't anywhere near where Big Red II was, in '72....

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 12:05 AM

Believe me, Favorite Trick's HOY was nothing like Secretariat's--as a two year old, Secretariat would've held his own in the Classic...I had no problems with him winning HOY at two--Favorite Trick's HOY was a joke--why not give Housebuster HOY, they talked about that--no, 2yolds are not fully developed/they don't warrant HOY status...

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 12:22 AM

I suppose people forgot that Secretariat finished a fast closing 4th in his first start to Herbull, and Mo was ahead 14 lengths in his. So people talking about the Sanford should compare apples to apples. If anything, Uncle Mo has more precocity than Secretariat, and I still firmly believe that he will be very hard to catch.

The TRiple Crown is not easy to win, unless you were Secretariat, or Sir Barton, in 1919, who won it as a foil for his stablemate Billy Kelly. In fact, Sir Barton was a maiden when he won the Derby.

Uncle Mo earned a 108 Beyer in the Breeders Cup, and if he improves with age, who is going to catch him next year? He could get 120 beyers or higher in the Triple Crown races with just 12 point beyer improvement, enough to beat the older superstars as well, which he could probably have done as a 2 year old. :)

Yes, I am annointing Mo a superstar, because of his speed, ability to rate, high byers, and improvement with age. The horses who chased him in his maiden race were more or less done, and only King Congie came back later to win. If one watches BAT or Jaycito, who ran like a spooked pony, they are simply, nor is ANY colt or filly in this the league of Uncle Mo, but I suppose we have to fill races.

jon 18 Dec 2010 12:33 AM

Ranagulzion,

I always look forward to you putting me down. I am a big boy and can defend myself. I conceded I am of average intelligence but I am capable of understanding what exactly Jason was trying to communicate. Below is the statement I have taken exception with:  

“Uncle Mo ran him into the ground in one of the most impressive Juvenile performances ever”

My English is not great but the most impressive Juvenile performances ever mean it supersedes all previous performances in the particular race. Jason is an excellent writer. He could have easily stated that Uncle Mo’s performance ranks with the best performance in the race. Instead he chose to regard it as the best ever. The final word in the above (EVER) clearly makes this distinction. It remains an indefensible statement and no word twisting can change what the gentleman is implying. I have posted on more than one occasion that Uncle Mo’s performance was very impressive but I am not prepare make ridiculous and indefensible statements about him.

I have no apology for mentioning JB's Thunder, Rouge Romance and Biondetti.  Two of the three finished 3rd &4th. A couple these colts were racing on the surface for the first time and were taking a lot of kick back. There is no doubt that they were soundly beaten. Does their loss means they are incapable of defeating Uncle Mo on another day? Certainly not! These are young horses.  Biondetti is May foal. Could they be turf/synthetic track horses? Time will tell. Of all the 2010 2YO performances I have seeen,  Rouge Romance is the one that impressed me the most.

“He has very short memory whenever his arguments have been vanquished and he believes that the rest of us forget just as quickly”

I stand by the statements I make. It is never my desire for anyone suffer a loss of memory. Who determine when an argument is vanquished? The statements you made about QR heading into the BCC and those made about SS being a TC were extremely accurate. Keep it real.

“As for Favourite Trick, I was a big fan of that horse but i have to admit that he was grossly overrated, a mere puff of a champion and the biggest HOTY trickster of all time. There's no way that he could match strides with "Mo".

I really believe you should post an apology to the fans of Favorite Trick for the above. You classify a colt that won 8 consecutive races as a 2YO as the biggest HOY trickster of all time. I cannot believe you actually posted such a comment.  Are you implying that the horse tricked the voters? He still holds the record for the fastest BCJ run on dirt. He is one of only two Horses to voted HOY at two. He won more race as a 2YO than Triple Crown winners Affirmed and Secretariat who subject to correction both 7 of 9 starts. Your obsession with Uncle Mo has taken you to a new low. Sad!

Coldfacts 18 Dec 2010 1:22 AM

While everyone is talking up a storm about Uncle Mo and Toscanova and all,someone is gonna come and Break up the Game. Yes,Shug may finally have a derby horse this time around. He ran a bang up second losing by a nose in his debut and yes he is another of those running Bernardini"s.His pedigree is royal being out of the Personal Ensign mare Pennant Champion by Mr Prospector.Plus,dont know what is it with these trainers who seem to think that 2 prep races will get them a derby winner. Give me a break.

Chris 18 Dec 2010 7:29 AM

JASON,

I just watched your handicapping show and I am puzzled as to why no member of the panel mentioned Riveting Reason. J. P’s Gusto was selected to finish in one of the top three spots be each panel member. JPG has defeated RR in all their meetings. In their last two meetings (Norfolk/Breeder Cup Juvenile) J. P’s Gusto finished 11/2L and 3/4L ahead of Riveting Reason.  Riveting Reason was the leader for the first 6F in the BCJ. From observation this colt has problem settling and constantly fights his rider. I was therefore puzzled why trainer Cho Myung Kwon affixed blinkers in the BCJ. I think it is worth mentioning that up to the BCJ Riveting Reason was still a maiden. The colt you like to win Comma To The Top finished behind Riveting Reason in the Delmar Futurity.  Comma To The Top broke his maiden by 8L heading into the Futurity.  If J. P’s Gusto and Comma To The Top are so highly favored then Riveting Reason must have an outsider’s shot.

How could I conclude without mentioning his superior pedigree? His sire is a handsome derby winning son of Mr. Prospector. His dam was sire by a brilliant 2000 Guineas (GB-G1) winning son of In Reality. As previously mentioned two other brilliant sons of In Reality have been dam sire of derby winners. Smile the dam sire of Smarty Jones was a Breeders’ Cup Sprint winner. Believe It the dam sire of Real Quiet won the Wood Memorial-G1. Both derby winning mares were cover by stallions from the Mr. Prospector sire line. Cho Myung Kwon could have started Premier Pegasus but chose instead to start RR. I wonder why?

Coldfacts 18 Dec 2010 9:45 AM

Coldfacts: Apparently you do have a problem understanding written English. You keep copying my comment but you arent reading it properly.

“Uncle Mo ran him into the ground in one of the most impressive Juvenile performances ever."

The phrase "one of the most" is the key. That doesnt mean absolute or THE BEST or supersedes all others. It means "one of." Geez. It's like pulling teeth.

Jason Shandler 18 Dec 2010 10:13 AM

Chris- thanks for mentioning him.  Great pedigree.  Maybe they aren't mentioning him because Shug is very, very patient with his horses so they are waiting to see what he is going to do.

Footlick 18 Dec 2010 10:45 AM

A horse who doesn't like the track generally doesn't extend when it comes to the crunch and steadily loses ground in the final furlongs. Like Skip Away, whose worst lifetime races were the Kentucky Derby and the BC Classic at CD.

Sightseek was a beast at Belmont with its gentle turns, but on tighter 8f tracks she couldn't stride out.

Pedigree Ann 18 Dec 2010 10:54 AM

Laz and John T- I know about La Prevoyante as she was one fo my favorite horses as were most Buckpasser fillies.  Since we were mentioning impressive two year olds I just thought I would get people to recall her.  

Footlick 18 Dec 2010 11:02 AM

If Uncle Mo ends up having distance limitations, I'll take BAT who cleared the rest of the field in the BC Juvenile field on a track he did not handle well and was fighting. Geez, how could would he have performed if he'd actually liked the surface at Churchill. Easy Goer, Point Given, Empire Maker, Afleet Alex, and even Curlin (who later won over the Churchill surface in the Stephen Foster albeit not impressively against ho-hum competition) didn't seem to be particularly fond of it. All ran credibly over the track that was not their favorite and, if Uncle Mo proves a little short, and no other colts of a similar caliber develop, possibly BAT can do what Curlin did - prevail on his class alone  while not handling the Churchill track well.

Will W 18 Dec 2010 11:55 AM

Secretariat ran 1 1/16th twice as a 2 year old and never ran as fast as Mo did in the BC.  So I guess it is fair to say Mo is faster at two then Secretariat. Another important fact is Mo is undefeated at 2 and Secretariat was not.  Secretariat won mostly sprints as a 2 year old.  He only won 2 races over 6 1/2 furlongs as a 2 year old.

Draynay 18 Dec 2010 11:56 AM

Jason, I have to hand it to you, even when we are no longer even talking about you know who and you know who (out of respect for your feelings I didn't mention their names), you have the liveliest blog on the internet. Coldfacts, I always find your opinions interesting and I learn from them. But I think Uncle Mo is pretty special. He just has to stay healthy. However, he isn't quite Secretariat as a 2 year old.

Paula Higgins 18 Dec 2010 12:18 PM

ITA Pedigree Ann with your assessment about horses who don't like the track. They won't extend if they are having problems with it. Which I think is why John Sherriffs said You Know Who was o.k. with the Churchill track at the BCC. It just took a while for her to get into it and deal with the dirt in her face. I would love to know WHY some horses do better with certain tracks more than others. I mean why didn't BAT like the track at Churchill? A science project for sure.

Paula Higgins 18 Dec 2010 12:26 PM

Matthew W,

Arazi was also HOY as a 2YO. I guess his flop as a 3YO suggests that he too was a joke. Any 2YO that is voted HOY must have done something special. Favorite Trick won every start at seven different tracks. He set a stakes record in the BCJ which still stand today. What exactly did he do so badly that he is being so badly discredited?  

Coldfacts 18 Dec 2010 12:40 PM

jon

Maybe you forget that Secretariat was interfered with in his first start.  He was individually timed at 48 seconds at the half and ran his final 3/8ths in 17.1 seconds, and this in his first start.  In his Sandford the second place horse, Linda's Chief would be a 9 time stakes winner.

Draynay

Secretariat was raced the way two year olds should be raced, a diet of shorter races and eventually longer ones.  His first six races were sprints.  When he stretched out for the Laurel Futurity at 1 1/16M, it was his 8th race at 2, and this in 3 ½ months.  I wonder when Uncle Mo and the other top two year olds are going to run their 8th race.  When Secretariat won the Laurel Futurity it was timed in 1.42.4 compared to Uncle Mo’s BC Juvenile time of 1.42.3.  The difference was that Secretariat was 5th, 10 lengths off the lead early on and took off and won for fun by 8 lengths (DRF said easily) as opposed to Uncle Mo’s (DRF Ridden Out) 4 length win.  

Uncle Mo still has a long way to go to reach Secretariat’s status.  So far he has done everything so easily and I personally hope he does, but like I said he has a long way to go.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 12:42 PM

Footlick

I know.  It's just when some of these horse's names come up its fun to bragg about their accomplishments.  They are forgotten about far to soon.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 12:43 PM

People we get it!  Uncle Mo is the horse to beat in the KD.  We also, understand that running 1 1/16 as a two yr old is different then running a 1 1/4 in a twenty horse field on the first Saturday of May.  

I think we all need a break from the blog!  Have a great vacation!

Trebloc 18 Dec 2010 12:53 PM

Chris

I agree with you about trainers giving Derby horses 2 prep races and going into the Derby.  It seems to be working though.  In the past four years Street Sense (07), Big Brown (08), Street Sense (09), and Super Saver (10), all won the Derby in their 3rd start of the year.  After their Derbies through their win totals combined totaled 4, two each for Big Brown and Street Sense and zero for Super Saver and MTB.   And the also-rans in those races that went into them with light campaigns didn’t amount to much later in their careers either.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 12:56 PM

JASON,

I will put this issue rest with a final comment. I took your statement in its entirety. I am familiar with the term “One of the best” I am also familiar with the term “The best ever”   It is the EVER part of your statement switches your point of emphasis significantly. If his performance ranks amongst the best for the race, then it is clearly incorrect to classify it as one of the best ever.

Coldfacts 18 Dec 2010 12:57 PM

Laz- it is sad when a two year old like La Prevoyante is rarely mentioned.  She was stellar.  I totally agree with bragging about them.

Footlick 18 Dec 2010 1:38 PM

LAZ, right now all we can do is compare Secretariat and Mo as 2 year old horses. Mo is undefeated and faster so far.  Mo won the Champagne and Secretariat did not.  A bunch of little sprints won't do Mo much good he is above that.  Mo has a ways to go to be the best 3 year old in the last 50 years. Rachel has that locked up and will be tough to beat.

Draynay 18 Dec 2010 2:35 PM

Trebloc, you don't need to get hit with a brick to see that Uncle Mo is clearly the 2011 Kentucky Derby winner.  Please try to keep up.

Draynay 18 Dec 2010 2:38 PM

Coldfacts,

 Have you ever in your life admitted that you were wrong?  I didn't think so.

longwaytomay 18 Dec 2010 2:44 PM

Jason: (off the subject).

W.L. McKnight Handicap (Calder).

Race: 11 Changes Time Posted

Course - Turf changed to Dirt 1:56 PM ET    

No Temp Rail 2:28 PM ET    

#1   Telling   Scratched - Off-Turf 2:28 PM ET    

#5   Bold Hawk   Scratched - Off-Turf 2:28 PM ET    

#7   Black Scorpion   Scratched - Trainer 11:58 AM ET    

#9   Musketier (GER)   Scratched - Trainer 12:44 PM ET    

tcc 18 Dec 2010 2:58 PM

Its amazing to see the comments and the upswing of hatred towards a man that puts his comments out there on a blog, for all to see.  

First let me say, Semantics is a game that little children play. The Statement "One of the most impressive Ever" is just what it is. Didn't mean that those should take these words and spin it to start an argument.  We are trying to talk about a great horse, a horse that has done absolutely nothing wrong in 3 starts 2 in Grade 1 company, and the focus of people is wording. Its laughable, we know its possible the Mo might come back to the field, its also possible that he may step away from the field another 2 lengths. But whatever way it goes we should be glad we have something to look forward to.  A brand new competitive year of racing where horses will clash from Jan-Dec and no focus on 1 race per year.

afleetalexforever 18 Dec 2010 3:35 PM

Draynay

It seems to me that Secretariat won the Belmont and then was disqualified.  And the build-up with sprint races before stretching out is what trainers used to do in the old days when they actually had top horses that raced as many times in one year as horses like Quality Road and Blame did in their entire careers.

Uncle Mo is fast so far.  Let me know when he runs a mile in 1.33.2 after leading all the way and doing the 6F in 1.08.3; 9F in 1.45.2; 10F in 1.59.2; 1 3/16M in 1.54.2 (DRF 1.53.2); and 12F in 2.24.

Yep.....that's right.  In years from now we will be comparing the two greatest three year olds all time.....Uncle Mo and Rachel. LOL

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 3:44 PM

Draynay, Secretariat won the Champagne in a walk, but was disqualified. Let me quote Charles Hatton in the ARM:

"[Secretariat] was indubitably best in the Champagne as well. But after looping the field on the turn, and recovering from a bump which virtually turned him sidewise, he dropped in toward the rails slightly as horses will in changing stride upon entering the straight.

  "In the process, he brushed Greentree's stout colt Stop the Music. After some tedium, the stewards transposed the order of finish between Secretariat and Stop the Music....,"

Pedigree Ann 18 Dec 2010 4:07 PM

Uncle Mo is going to be like all the other three year olds in his division.  Don't expect much, Remember, Hype now, pay later.

PJJ 18 Dec 2010 4:16 PM

Relax, to be honest the horse to beat right now is To Honor and Serve. He should win the Derby on Pedigree alone. I have him at 25 to 1 for 200 bucks !!!

Draynay 18 Dec 2010 4:32 PM

Pedigree Ann

Like you I meant the Champagne, not the Belmont.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 4:33 PM

COLDFACTS,

Peace and love Brother.  OK, I'll retract my harsh description of Favourite Trick.  He did in fact earn the championship honours fair and square and his 2YO resume is one of the best ever.  My strong reaction was because of hindsight (Favourite Trick evaporated like smoke as a 3YO, even though he had no soundness issues) and the fact that you have been belittling Uncle Mo's brilliance, touting others that he put away with disdainful ease.  In my view Mo's three races are no less impressive than Favourite Trick's eight races.  Anyway, I'll rest my case for now and wish you a very Merry Christmas.  You're a good sport and quite a gladiator on these blogs.  Your english is perhaps far better than mine because I've never seen Jersey Boy give you grammar lessons on any of your blog posts (LOL).  Fare well Pal and keep the cold facts coming.

Ranagulzion 18 Dec 2010 5:26 PM

Although Dutrow is a colorful character, at this time and so far he's right that Mo and Boys are by far the best two colts around. That is not of course a sure bet for the first week of May. It is just a matter to wait and see how things develop during winter time

Carmel's stable 18 Dec 2010 5:38 PM

Okay Ranagulzion and Coldfacts:

I never ever will ever say that I will  never ever say Merry Xmas to all ever ever. Merry Xmas.

JerseyBoy 18 Dec 2010 6:37 PM

Draynay,

HA!  If you only knew what you thought you know!  QR in the classic?  HA!

All I know is that I cleaned up with Super Saver and I will clean up with Brethen!  Go ahead and pick the chalk!  

Trebloc 18 Dec 2010 6:56 PM

I also like To Honor and Serve. To me, he is the second one to watch. BAT is third.

Paula Higgins 18 Dec 2010 7:34 PM

 Footlick

   That,s ok,there is nothing wrong about remembering a great 2 year old filly champion like La

Prevoyante.As she was undefeated as

a 2 year old in 12 starts and was a

North American champion and never was the same horse from her 3 year

old days on,I have always felt she had a lot to do with owners and trainers limiting the starts for a 2 year old after that.

John T 18 Dec 2010 7:51 PM

LAZMANNICK & Footlick;

I agree that La Prevoyante has been unjustly forgotten over the years. To go 12-for-12 as a two year old is simply incredible. . . especially considering that Blame and Quality Road made only thirteen starts in their entire careers.

Concerning Secretariat, according to Charles Hatton, Secretariat's gallop out times were almost as impressive as his final times. In the one mile Gotham Stakes, he galloped out a mile and a quarter in 1:59 2/5. In the Marlboro Invitational, he galloped out a mile and a quarter in 1:57 4/5. In the Belmont Stakes, he galloped out a mile and five-eighths in 2:37 2/5. In the Gotham, it took two lead ponies and an outrider to pull him up after the race! I have never heard of anything like that since.

Hopefully, Uncle Mo will be able to do the same next year!

-Keelerman

-Keelerman 18 Dec 2010 8:09 PM

Paula Higgins

To Honor and Serve used to be my top 2 year old until 4:32 PM this afternoon. (see post above).  I will say this, if he turns out to be a top 3 year old in spite of the Draynay curse, then we will be looking at one amazing horse, a horse that will manage to overcome every kind of adversity.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 8:39 PM

Relax, to be honest the horse to beat right now is To Honor and Serve. He should win the Derby on Pedigree alone. I have him at 25 to 1 for 200 bucks !!!

Re:  Well, He is jinxed now,  He is smitten with the Draynay curse.  There goes another fine horse that had good going for him , then like so many before him, He got snubbed by the Draynay Curse.   Poor fella, now he will never have a chance.

sodapopkid 18 Dec 2010 8:50 PM

Draynay I'm right with you on Uncle Mo--I'm saying Secretariat was #1 in the world as a two year old--Obviously, when you see what became of secretariat, the shorter races don't mean much--he was best at a distance that wasn't his best, all the better! Uncle Mo ran three times, like Slew...Secretariat was 7 for 9, but one loss was a DQ (bogus), Stop The Music ran 2nd, but those N Y stewards in the 70's...Cougar in the Woodward (Tinajero finished 2nd, he didn't lose a placing!)...Affirmed in Travers (Oh REALLY? Ya really thought Alydar was gonna catch him??!!)Maybe, Dray--LIKELY not as good as Secretariat--c'mon, you and your "best ever" horses!

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 9:21 PM

I'm just saying a 2yold getting HOY is a joke--even Arazi--Favorite Trick just wasn't on people's minds back then as being that special--not like Secretariat, not anything like that...that's what I'm saying--he (Favorite Trick) had a wondrous year--I'll stand by my statement--Secretariat would've held his own in the CLASSIC--at two/maybe even won....

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 9:25 PM

a 2 year old winning HOY is like a sprinter being HOY--it should not be done--at least it should be very, very rare

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 9:27 PM

To the Follower's of the (Indian Charlie) sire line, you can now add (Comma To The Top) to your list with (Uncle Mo).

tcc 18 Dec 2010 9:30 PM

But MoMo is a dream!...I love that guy--there is certainly promise--it's been a long time, maybe Arazi--since I have been this excited for a two year old! I thought Arazi's, Chief's Crown's, and that grey N Y horse were the bestest Juvy winners--until Uncle Mo! I'll say right now, his was the best (by far) That track was tough on the two turn races--that horse is by far the best young horse in the land, and I doubt we will see anything close to MoMo. I would take 8-1 on him, right now, for the Derby, cuz I think, if all goes well/and I know what I'm talking about, if he gets there he'll be under 2-1, I normally have several I am looking at--I'm looking--but only as a last minute replacement for MoMo! Racing just got a boost from Zenyatta, maybe Uncle Mo can be the next star! If all goes well for him, I believe he's up to the task!  

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 9:37 PM

-Keelerman

Hey Keelerman.  Interesting stuff regarding Secretariat's gallop outs after his races.  Simply incredible, especially the 10F in 1.57.4 (The Bid’s World Record).

My concern about Uncle Mo and a lot of other two year olds is that they are being asked to do too much too soon regarding distances.  I still don’t think that two year olds receive the proper foundation that young horses used to get years ago.  In any event, I hop Uncle Mo is the real deal.  If anything, the sport is going to need a big star to take over after what we’ve seen the past few years, a horse that will grab people’s imaginations.

LAZMANNICK 18 Dec 2010 9:39 PM

Cash Call has been an important race in recent, as well as past, runnings--well Uncle Mo will sure have company when Comma Top The Top tries him--they both like to strut their stuff at the top of the stretch--liked Comma's kick-away today, that was a gear....

Matthew W 18 Dec 2010 9:53 PM

I'll be posting comments as much as possible while Im away over the next week my friends. There will be a guest blog on Thursday and I'll be back on the 28th. Merry Christmas to all except Dray.

Jason Shandler 18 Dec 2010 11:03 PM

Merry Christmas Jason.

Aluminaut 18 Dec 2010 11:16 PM

Comma to the Top won the Hollywood Futurity in a style not often successful on synthetic, by blowing away the field on the turn, and then holding on.  I think Nakatani was astute to compare Comma, in style at least, to Lava Man, another horse that would put the race away before mid-stretch.

Comma to the Top proved himself the most brilliant two-turn Cali 2 year old(since Premier Pegasus ducked this race), but I'm not sure that is saying a whole lot.  Yes, that was little, distance challenged JP's Gusto gaining on Comma late in the Hollywood Futurity.  Actually, JP's Gusto had a real tough trip, being forced back on the far turn from 3rd(on the inside) to 6th or 7th(and wide); the fact JP still ran 2nd with that trip and was actually closing on Comma, probably suggests there was not alot of elite Derby prospects in the field; on the subject of the Derby, both Comma and JP appear to have miler pedigrees at best.  However, it isn't all about the Derby, and the H. Futurity is a wonderful race in its own right.  Congrats to Comma to the Top on a surprisingly electric synthetic win.

By the way, the delay, with rain forcing all the horses and connections into the side saddling enclosure, was both bizarre and kind of fun.  Everyone let their guard down, and Ramon Dominguez was even talking on his cell phone; at one point, about half the jockeys were in the stall where Comma was getting re-shod.

GunBow 18 Dec 2010 11:33 PM

Jason:

Do you have any info whether McPeek is going to send Noble's Promise out for the Malibu?  For weeks Noble's Promise has been listed as probable for the Malibu, but I read today that McPeek is also thinking about the Mr. Prospector(gr.3) at Gulfstream in January.

I would be real disappointed if Noble stays in Florida.  Hasn't the world heard the news, Santa Anita has dirt! I thought synthetics was the only thing keeping Eastern horses from shipping out to Cali.  Seriously though, the Malibu is a gr.1 race for just 3 year olds, Noble's Promise is apparently healthy and ready to run, and the money for the Malibu is better than the money for the Mr. Prospector.  Why wouldn't he come out?

GunBow 18 Dec 2010 11:40 PM

Jason:

I hope one of your gifts that you open and finding a winning Kentucky Derby future book ticket inside is there for you.

Merry Christmas.

tcc 18 Dec 2010 11:46 PM

I could of had Mo at 28-1 when I was in Vegas in Sept. What an idiot I am now. He's down to 6-1.

Jason Shandler 18 Dec 2010 11:51 PM

Jason:

Not Your Ordinary Top 10

26 Feb 2010 2:03 PM

1. Odysseus

2. Caracortado

3. Eskendereya:

4. Dublin:

5. D' Funnybone:

6. Interactif:

7. Drosselmeyer:

8. Super Saver:

9. Christine Daae:

10. Lookin At Lucky:

Best of the rest:

Conveyance:

Rule:

Discreetly Mine:

Noble's Promise:

Buddy's Saint:

Jackson Bend:

Sidney's Candy:

Dave in Dixie:

Tempted to Tapit:

Cardiff Giant:

Connemara:

Fly Down:

Maximus Ruler:

Now cross off the horses that didn't make it into Derby, than see where you had winner ranked in Feb.  

tcc 19 Dec 2010 12:30 AM

I never laughed so hard Jason, Comma to the Top held everyone back getting his shoe fixed, only to make everyone late starting up,  I knew he wasnt going to do much after the long wait, but, oh goodness, he came back like a lion.  I was really proud of him and all the others as well, the weather was really nasty out there , they all done really well.  You have to give it to Comma though,  Here he  made them all have to wait, just to beat them all in the race,  It must have been a magic shoe they shod him with.    lol....

PJJ 19 Dec 2010 7:03 AM

tcc: Well, at least I had all three Triple Crown race winners on the top 10 list :)

Coldfacts: You were saying about my CashCall picks?

Jason Shandler 19 Dec 2010 8:44 AM

Have a great holiday with your family Jason.

Footlick 19 Dec 2010 8:47 AM

Anyone know if the farrier injured before the CashCall is okay?  What was his injury?

Vic 19 Dec 2010 10:49 AM

Cheers to Comma to the Top.  He was my poll pick a couple days ago.

Corey knows how to keep that one at the top!

Gotta love those little geldings.  

www.youtube.com/watch

Love 'em all 19 Dec 2010 12:28 PM

After I watched the Cash Call Futurity, I have to say I was most impressed with JP's Gusto.  I cannot explain why except to say that JP seemed ready to go a much longer distance.  Noted on HRTV was that Comma on Top's farrier had to transported by ambulance after his injury.  So far, I like Uncle Mo, BAT, and To Honor and Serve.  But I still want to wait and see who will be stepping up in the next 5 months.  I think it will be an eventful period with many new promising colts stepping up into the limelight.  I think the claims that Uncle Mo is the next Secretariat are much too eager so early in the season, although he has been quite impressive.

Slew 19 Dec 2010 1:37 PM

Lazmannick, LOL I think you should still keep To Honor and Serve at the top of your list with Uncle Mo. He may survive the Draynay Curse. I just love his name and he is a really good horse. Merry Christmas to everyone once again-you too Schnauzer Man aka Draynay.

Paula Higgins 19 Dec 2010 2:48 PM

Now Draynay is comparing Mo to Secretariat on the basis of three races and says Rachel was the best 3 year old in the last 50 years? I guess now I have heard it all! Secretariat wins the Triple Crown and the Belmont by 31 lengths in the performance of the century, but Rachel is the best. No bias there. Yeah right.  That is funny.

Old Timer 19 Dec 2010 3:53 PM

Laz,  I agree with you : "I still don’t think that two year olds receive the proper foundation that young horses used to get years ago."

I think when horses start  back at 3, the distance of the initial start should be less than a mile, and 3 starts to build them up to the Derby.  A mile and a quarter off a light campaign at 2 and 3 does not bode well for a long career.

I am glad to see Peter Miller with a good horse.

skyfire 19 Dec 2010 8:39 PM

Why do I think Draynay picked the Giants!  HA!

Regarding the yesterday's Cashcall, not one horse in that race will have an impact in the KY Derby.  

Talk to you all in 2011!

Trebloc 19 Dec 2010 10:36 PM

I know that Secretariat had interference in his first start...but Mo won his by 14 lengths :)the only difference was an excuse.

There has been some chatter about Mos dosage index, compared to Secretariat.  The dirty little secret there is that Secretariat, winner of the Triple Crown, had the same dosage index as his full sister, The Bride, unplaced in 4 starts. The fact is, many factors go into racing besides dosage numbers. Otherwise, The Bride would have been Ruffian, and not Secretariats sister. Same deal with Man O War, who also had a sister named Masda, who was a Morning Glory (lightning fast in workouts), but hardly his equal-same dosage, though.

I think Mo will continue to get bigger and stronger over the winter, and maintain his advantage, even as others emerge. He is already so far ahead that the distance between him and others will still be the same as his 108 Beyers become 128 Beyers. I will be curious if he beats Secreatriats 139 Beyer in the Belmont. I know I am getting ahead of myself, but if one projects...those are the numbers he will get.

I will point out that Secretariat did not make the same jumps in class that Mo did in his first 3 starts.

I will mention Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, and King Glorious, who on paper was as good as they were. 2011 should be a fun year to watch Mo...flash or pan...

jon 19 Dec 2010 11:21 PM

If Dr. D doesn't write a guest blog, Ted from LA should.  Perhaps they can team up and win a Pulitzer Prize.

Ted from LA 19 Dec 2010 11:47 PM

Comma To The Top...gets two turns...has a huge gear....doesn't have to worry about earnings....good trainer--Comma To The Top will get to prep on dirt and looks like Derby Timber....

Matthew W 20 Dec 2010 1:08 AM

skyfire

Right on.  Though it is difficult to apply legislation regarding how to race younger horses, something should be done.  I was looking back at the past performances of Lady's Secret, the so called Iron Lady who raced 45 times.  Of her first 20 races, only one was at 1 1/16M.  The others were sprints.  Of her final 25 races, only 1 was a sprint, the other were routes including 3 at 10F.  Buckpasser raced 31 times and his first 10 were sprints.  In his final 21 races, only 3 were sprints.

There are exceptions, like Best Pal, but back in the day the trainers stressed foundation and lots of works.  And even then they raced their horses multi times at two.  They just didn’t ask them to overdue it in terms of distance.

It amazes me that our last four Derby winners won the Derby in their 3rd race of the year.  Of them, only Big Brown and Street Sense won races again in their careers, two each and during their three year old year.  MTB and Super Saver never won another race.  No wonder we are starving for heroes and heroines in this sport.

Peter Miller is turning into quite the trainer with a very high win percentage.  I hope he continues on once the Santa Anita meet gets under way.   Both Comma To The Top and JP’s Gusto were impressive.  Uncle Mo is the leader of the pack, so far, but I have a feeling that we could be in for a banner year with this group and Mo’s going to have his work cut out for him to stay on top.  The one thing is, if he does continue to dominate then maybe we really will have a top horse to rally around again.

LAZMANNICK 20 Dec 2010 10:48 AM

JON

It's way too early to crown Uncle Mo. It's months away and how many horses have you seen with all the talent in the world,but failed to make it into the starting gate? Please.

Mike Relva 20 Dec 2010 11:34 AM

SODAPOPKID

Good observation on both Honor And Serve(I like him alot) also on the famous "Dray Curse". His stunning endorsement didn't work for Quality Road last month,did it? lol

Mike Relva 20 Dec 2010 11:45 AM

LONGWAYTOMAY

The individuals that ALWAYS believe they are right,are always the opposite. I agree with you.

Mike Relva 20 Dec 2010 11:49 AM

jon- if Secretariat ran today he would have made the same jumps in class.  Back then that was not how you raced a two year old because they were giving them a foundation to build on by going through their conditions and slowly stretching them out.  It seems to be a lost art.  Let's hope Uncle Mo holds together next year.  He doesn't have much of a foundation right now, and as Laz and skyfire have pointed out, two year olds are not being given the foundation that they used to get and seem to need.

Footlick 20 Dec 2010 2:11 PM

I like the horse that ran an extra furlong or so in the Juve....that's right folks, watch out for Jaycito!!

Get Rid of the Marathon? Are you kidding me??  We need to get back to breeding and racing route and marathon horses.  Maybe then trainers will start putting a proper foundation on these colts and we'll have fewer breakdowns.  If I wanted to watch nothing but sprinters I'd watch Quarter Horses.  

JT 20 Dec 2010 2:13 PM

lemon drop kid hated CD

kingmambo 20 Dec 2010 2:24 PM

If we are talking football take the Bears tonight and bet the house the Vikings will fold like a cheap suit.

Old Timer, I compared Secretariat to Mo only as a 2 year old.  So far Mo is better and faster.  Will he be better at 3 ?  We will know in 6 months.  To Honor and Serve will be running in Florida soon. I will take plenty of pictures !

Draynay 20 Dec 2010 4:12 PM

Can we please stop comparing Uncle Mo to Secretariat until at least when the Triple Crown is over?

2:24 20 Dec 2010 4:13 PM

As of December 2010 I find Pluck to be the most explosive and impressive 2 year old horse. It will be very interesting if he can swich to dirt and be as brilliant. The second most impressive 2 year old is To Honor and Serve, he looks dangerous as the distances increase. The Uncle Mo bandwagon is starting prematurely, he is being crowned the king of racing for beating Boys @ Toscanova in one race.

Keelerman,

Where did you find out about Secretariat's gallop out times? The times are lightning fast and are another example of his unmatched brilliance. I have always placed Secretariat and Phar Lap far above any other race horses. They were both machines and should never be compared to today's race horses.

Jon,

What kind of holiday cheer are you drinking? Uncle Mo beat Boys @ Toscanova, but saying that he could have competed with Zenyatta and Blame is 100% laughable. And just quit it with compairing him to Secreatariat, no respect.

Coldfacts,

I always appreciate your wisdom and analysis of bloodlines, keep up all of your hard work. I give Boys @ Toscanova a fighting chance next year based on his dam's sire Coronado's Quest. I always play a horse when I find Easy Goer or Coronado's Quest on the dams side.

ZJ,

I have the same question as you do, where is Awesome Act?

Forbidden Apple 20 Dec 2010 8:12 PM

Dutrow should be more worried about Zitos colt dialed in.If he progresses in fla. as expected my 40to1 future is money in the bank.

tom 21 Dec 2010 9:58 AM

I love the fact that Comma to the Top has had 10 starts:  talk about foundation!  An old fashioned campaign because of low expectations in the beginning.  I hope he has a long, successful, sound race career!  He is my sentimental favorite.

Laz, it will be interesting to see how Mo goes on as a 3 year old with very little racing under his belt.

skyfire 21 Dec 2010 8:19 PM

Amen Footlick.

Agree with you regarding the Marathon JT.

Draynay, I know that you are an intelligent human being.  Unlike others, I enjoy your posts to a degree.  But saying Uncle Mo is a better 2 year old than Secretariat is beyond ridiculous.

Happy Holidays to all.

2:24 22 Dec 2010 9:55 AM

Forbidden Apple;

Please excuse my delay in replying to you; I did not see your comment until a few moments ago!

Secretariat's gallop out times are from the Charles Hatton's "Profiles of Best Horses" in the 1974 American Racing Manual.

ZJ;

Awesome Act has been training at Vinery Stable. He most recently breezed five furlongs in 1:02 1/5 and appears to be on schedule for a return to the races.

Skyfire;

I find it fascinating and incredible that Comma to the Top has made ten starts this year. Wouldn't it be amazing if this pattern continued next year? If he proves himself capable of stretching out to classic distances, he is a colt who could run in all three Triple Crown races and perhaps even benefit from it. He seems to be very tough!

LAZMANNICK;

Something that has always fascinated me is the frequency in which great horses, such as Kelso and Forego, would run in allowance races.

Kelso is the perfect example. After his first Horse of the Year campaign, which culminated with a brilliant victory in the two mile Jockey Club Gold Cup, he made his 1961 debut in an allowance race going seven furlongs! Following his fifth consecutive Horse of the Year campaign in 1964, which concluded with a stunning victory in the Washington, D. C., International over Gun Bow, he returned to the races in 1965 by running in a six furlong allowance race!

Forego did the same. After winning the second of his Horse of the Year honors in 1975, the incredible gelding made his return to the races in 1976 by running in a seven furlong allowance race. Now it must be remembered that Forego was the champion sprinter of 1974, but having a Horse of the Year return to the races in an allowance race is something that I simply cannot imagine happening nowadays.

-Keelerman

-Keelerman 22 Dec 2010 12:12 PM

More liveliness on the Shandler blog. ... I think everyone should adopt a policy of not comparing horses of today to horses of yesteryear for at least 20 years after they are done racing. I mean, we heard the same type of stuff about Ghostzapper and Curlin. ... Clearly too early to make those type of pronouncements involving the name Secretariat.

JerseyTom 22 Dec 2010 12:46 PM

2:24

Your comments to Draynay. Please. Sorry to inform you,but I'll wager at least ninety per cent doesn't share your generous viewpoint.

Mike Relva 22 Dec 2010 4:31 PM

JerseyTom,

I noticed that you lost the hat on THS. Must say it was a big improvement!

Merry Christmas! and thank you for keeping us updated on things that make you go Hmmm!

Zookeeper 22 Dec 2010 10:08 PM

Secretariat beat Stop The Music and couple of times as a 2 year old and lost to him once when he fouled him in stretch.  Uncle Mo has been dominating in every way and has run very fast easily.  You can't compare Mo with Secretariat at 3 but you can compare them at 2.  Sorry, but to ME Mo was more impressive and faster like it or not.

draynay 22 Dec 2010 11:15 PM

Happy holidays to all of you.  So long from Ted from LA. Have a winning 2011.  You're the best friends a degenerate gambler could possibly have.  Until we meet again, may Draynay and Dr. D hold you in the palm of their hands.  Warning:  If they do hold you in the palm of their hands, watch your wallet and goodies.

Ted from LA 22 Dec 2010 11:29 PM

-Keelerman

Alydar is another example……he finished his 2 year old season by competing in 8 consecutive stakes and started his three year old season with an allowance race.  He finished that season by competing in 9 consecutive stakes and started his four year old season in an allowance.

Another horse whose campaign was drastically different from today was Carry Back.  He made 21 starts as a two year old, the first 17 in sprints.  Of those, the first 5 were at 3F, the next 8 at 4 ½F to 5 1/2F, the next 2 at 6F and the next 2 at 7F.   They must have done something right.  The Kentucky Derby was his 8th race of his 3 year old season and 29th of his career.

LAZMANNICK 22 Dec 2010 11:43 PM

Monster Malibu! Caracortado/Noble's Promise box....

Matthew W 23 Dec 2010 12:23 AM

-Keelerman- it was very common for a horse of those eras to start with a 6 or 7 furlong allowance race.  I believe it was to get their minds back on racing and a bit more conditioning.  I remember a few trainers said that there is no better conditioning than a 7 furlong race.  But, as with giving two year olds a decent foundation, that practice seems to have gone by the wayside.

Footlick 23 Dec 2010 9:47 AM

Also agree with JT.  We need to keep or add more distance races into the racing schedules.  It is interesting that I read an article by a geneticist who said that there is no way that the Thoroughbred breed could have changed so much in 50 or 60 years.  It is genetically impossible.  It takes 100s of years.  So he suggested that it is a change in diet, supplements and training methods the horses have been given.  I had never thought about the short timespan in regards to our horses apparent distance limitations,but remembering my Genetics classes it makes sense.  It takes a long time to alter something genetically.  So, the combination of meds, training methods (especially our two year olds not having alot of foundation), diet and supplements makes sense also as a theory.  Food for thought.

Footlick 23 Dec 2010 9:54 AM

Jersey Tom,

It's funny that you mentioned Ghostzapper, I woke up today thinking about him. Secretariat had a huge heart that allowed him to blow by horses with ease. After reading Keelerman's post about Secretariat's gallop out times, he is the best horse ever in my book. The likes of Ghostzapper, Medaglia d'Oro, or Curlin are simply good horses, far from great. Last year it was Eskendereya and this year it is Uncle Mo, these two are not worthy of champion status.

Forbidden Apple 23 Dec 2010 10:57 AM

Longwaytomay,

Your question has left me puzzled. I have never regarded myself as infallible. If this is the profile I have been projecting then I clearly need to make adjustment. A lot of posts are emotionally driven and are not supported by facts. I try to bring some balance to the issues with what I consider to be measured statements. I would have been nice if you had cited an example of when I have failed to acknowledge that I was wrong. Your statement is rather open ended and consequently I am unable to detail the reasons  for my defend my position.

Coldfacts 24 Dec 2010 11:06 AM

Afleetalexforever,

“It’s amazing to see the comments and the upswing of hatred towards a man that puts his comments out there on a blog”

It is unfortunate that you consider constructive criticism as hatred. Jason is quite capable of defending himself and has duly done so. He never regarded comments on his "One of the most impressive Ever" statement as hatred. I am therefore equally amazed that any well thinking individual could read such a conclusion.

First let me say, Semantics is a game that little children play.

Are you sure you want to associate Semantics with children? I am sure you meant Phonics.

The Statement "One of the most impressive Ever" is just what it is.

You have clearly made my point Iin your defiance of Jason. I indicate that his statement about Uncle Mo performance being one of the most impressive ever is not support by historic records. He is an excellent writer and must recognize that occasionally he will be required to justify his opinions. Based on his statement he clearly think that Uncle Mo’s performance is the best ever recorded in the race.  If this was not his opinion, then he could have stated that it ranked amongst the best for the race. The best performance in the race clearly belongs to Arazi. He could have compared Mo’s performance to that brilliant colt. He chose to make a statement that suggests Arazi’s performance was superseded.

He is entitled to his opinion but not the facts. I was only keeping him honest.

“We are trying to talk about a great horse, a horse that has done absolutely nothing wrong in 3 starts 2 in Grade 1 Company”

The above over the top statement is similar to those I have criticized Jason on. Uncle Mo has won three races and he is now classified as great. It is clear the parameters you used to determine hatred is similar to those used for the assessment of greatness. I imagine if Uncle Mo is retired now he would make it to the Hall Of Fame.  What utter nonsense! If Uncle Mo is great, how would you classify War Pass who has a similar record as a 2YO and was given a higher speed rating the BCJ?

Afleetalexforever, I beseech you to keep it real.

Coldfacts 24 Dec 2010 11:06 AM

Jason,

Nice call on Comma To The Top. His PP suggested that he was capable of that performance. It appears he was coming back to the field in the last furlong anf this does not look good for the 10F distance of the derby. The colt I liked disappointed and it appears he has gone backwards since the blinkers have been added. He finished ahead of Comma To The Top as a maiden in the Delmar Futurity. Comma To The Top entered the Delmar Futurity of a 8L maiden victory. He has clearly moved forwards and my colt has not. Without trying to find excuses he might just be a turf horse. His dam sire Known Fact did his best work on the turf. Reverting Reason has a proven Triple Crown pedigree but probably is not as good as his pedigree. In 2008 I was very high on Mine That Bird going into the BCJ, he finished last and I jumped ship thereafter. I will keep an eye on this colt in spite of his disappointing performance.

Comma To The Top is a nice colt but his Derby credentials are very soft. I do however like the fact that his dam Maggies Storm made only 4 starts and earned only $4500. She has an ideal derby winning broodmare profile. The Storm Cat arm of Northern Dancer has been dismal in the broodmare department. However, there is hope as Ice Box dam was sired by Tabasco cat.

The 3rd place finisher in the Cash Call Futurity Clubhouse Ride seems to want a distance of ground. He closed from last into third and appears to be the sort that with time could develop into a top class colt. He is one of about five 2YOs mentioned on this Blog whose dams were sired by Seeking The Gold. The dam of 2010 BCC winner Blame was sired by Seeking The Gold. Candy Ride was such a beast (World Record for a mile 1:31 flat) and Seeking The Gold is far better than Smart Strike and Carson City the two sons of Mr. Prospector that are broodmare sires to derby winners.

Merry Christmas

Coldfacts 24 Dec 2010 2:01 PM

I am agreeing with Draynay that Mo's 2YO performances compares favourably with the best including Secretariat, Spectacular Bid and Favourite Trick.

Ranagulzion 24 Dec 2010 3:36 PM

Ranagulzion,

How would you compare Uncle Mo’s 2YO performances to the following 2YO champions:-

War Pass

Won Breeders' Cup Juvenile (G1,Mth), Champagne S. (G1,Bel)

Vindication

Breeders' Cup Juvenile (G1), Kentucky Cup Juvenile (G3)

Chief’s Crown

Breeders' Cup Juvenile [G1], Norfolk S. [G1], Hopeful S. [G1], Cowdin S. [G1], Saratoga Special S. [G2]

2nd Futurity S. [G1]

I note that the USA bred and European raced Arazi was not used in the comparison. He was unbeaten in six starts entering the BCJ. He was regarded as the European super horse.  Does his omission deem him unworthy to be included in the comparison?

Coldfacts 25 Dec 2010 8:53 AM

COLDFACTS,

Arazi most certainly was not unbeaten in his first seven starts (not six ...this is a cold fact).  He lost on his debut, if I remember correctly.  However I omitted him reluctantly from the comparison because he ran on American soil as a 2YO only in his sensational Breeder's Cup appearance.  Indeed he was equally impressive in his six consecutive wins in France and became reputed for his trademark explosive acceleration from the back of the pack.  If we decided to include him amongst the American elite 2YOs I wouldn't object but I'd still think that "Mo" ranks up there with him.

The three other horses that you mentioned, War Pass, Vindication and Chief's Crown were all very good 2YOs I'll agree but i don't recall the kind of aura of impending greatness surrounding any of them that attends the memroy of Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Arazi, which now surrounds Uncle Mo.  I know that you don't see it that way but so far "Mo" is doing a job on your assessment capabilities Bro (he's proving you wrong).  

Ranagulzion 25 Dec 2010 2:31 PM

Of course Uncle Mo is a better 2yr old than Secretariat.  Uncle Mo won a maiden special weight at the Spa and followed that up with wins in the Champagne and Breeders Cup Juvie.

All Secretariat did was win 2 maiden special weights, one allowance, the Sanford, the Hopeful, the Futurity, the Laurel Futurity, and the Garden State.  He finished first in the Champagne by 2 lengths but was dq'd to second after running through Stop the Music like an NFL fullback.

But yeah, Uncle Mo blows him out of the water at 2.

merlinmerry 25 Dec 2010 3:26 PM

Ranagulzion,

My deal colleague I hope you and your household had a Merry Christmas. Many thanks for the cold facts regarding Arazi’s racing record entering the 1991 Breeders’ Cup. Just another case where I failed to check and verify before hitting the submit button. I the season to be jolly there is no room for folly. You will note I specified he was American bred and since he was foaled after the two of the three horses in your comparison, I though he merited inclusion. I am not aware if the NTRA has changed its assessment but it did consider Arazi’s BCJ performance to be the single-most spectacular performance in Breeders' Cup history.

The unbeaten 2YO Seattle Slew was also excluded from you comparison. He holds the second fastest time (1:34.40) for Champagnes contested at a mile. It appears Devils Bag holds the record of 1:34.20. Seattle Slew is the only TC winner that completed the series of races undefeated. Are you suggesting that The Slew is not worthy of inclusion?  Uncle Mo’s performances as a 2YO are impressive but they are no more impressive than a host of others seen in the past. This attempt to label him as a super horse at this point in his career is absolutely ludicrous. Do you believe The NTRA would assess his BCJ performance as “The the single-most spectacular performance in Breeders' Cup history”? Do you believe The NTRA would assess Uncle Mo’s performance in the BCJ as one of the best ever?

He is a nice that has the action of a greyhound. His 1:43 plus clocking in The BCJ does not ranked with the faster time recorded by a geared downed Street Sense. His stable companion Brethren recorded as faster time on his debut for a similar distance. Taking these cold facts into consideration, what exactly am I missing? What is the excitement about? I am in no way trying to discredit the colt but I see nothing to suggest that he is not just another 2YO that as this stage of his career  is better that the rest. This is a scenario that is played out each season. After watching thoroughbred racing as long as I have, it takes far more to propel my thinking into the super horse zone.

Coldfacts 26 Dec 2010 7:32 AM

merlinmerry- lol

Footlick 26 Dec 2010 11:37 AM

And, in my opinion, War Pass's performance in his BCJ win blows Uncle Mo's out of the water.  That was absolute dominance!  Not in the league of Arazi, but it was closer than Uncle Mo's.

Coldfacts- don't discount the Buckpasser blood in Seeking the Gold as a contributor to his broodmare sire excellence.

Footlick 26 Dec 2010 11:41 AM

COLDFACTS & FOTLICK,

War Pass was very impressive but his Breeder's Cup win was on a very sloppy track, a condition which justifies caution in assessment of his quality, since sloppy tracks often exaggerate the superiority of a winner over rivals that haven't adapted to such underfoot conditions.

Vindication was for most part shadowed by the other unbeaten colt Sky Mesa and Chief's Crown was also shadowed by Proud Truth and Spend A Buck in their respective generations.  By shadow I mean other rival colts that were thought by some knowledgeable analysts to be equal or superior.  Uncle Mo has no shadows.  He completeley destroyed Boys at Toscanova along with other "phantom challengers" in the BCJ.  To Honor and Serve has been steered clear of "Mo" in order to position him as an up and coming rival, and no serious observer thinks that he could successfully compete with Mo at this stage.  

Street Sense doesn't qualify for mention in this discussion because one big performance along the rail, on a track that had a clear rail bias doesn't put him in this league.  Period.

As for Seattle Slew, he ran three times as a 2YO with his only stakes performance being the Champaigne, which he did impressively in a very fast time.  That performance, in the light of his undefeated status puts him in the elite group but certainly not better than Uncle Mo.

Coldfacts, you should exercise caution in how you bring winning times into the comparison because, as you know very well, tracks vary geographicaly, daily, hourly and even from rail to rail (on the same track).

Ranagulzion 26 Dec 2010 8:02 PM

Ranagulzion,

It appears you had a good holiday as you have come out firing on all cylinders. If the breeder Cup was around during Seattle Slew’s time, I am sure he would have competed for a million dollar purse. Uncle Mo would only have one stakes victory if not for the Breeder Cup. He is more than a worthy comparison as in spite of his one stakes victory as a 2YO he went on to win the TC.

“Street Sense doesn't qualify for mention in this discussion because one big performance along the rail, on a track that had a clear rail bias doesn't put him in this league”

A colt that holds the biggest winning margin in a faster time being geared down does not compare. Interesting! The said colt closed from 19th to win the derby. I wonder if said bias was present seven months later. He remains the only BCJ winner that went on to win the KD. Secretariat lost his first race and was voted HOY at two. It appears the performances of past champion 2YOs do not compare to those of Uncle Mo. It appears there will be a 12th Triple Crown winner in 2011. Native Dancer was the best of his generation and suffered his only lost in the derby.

“Coldfacts, you should exercise caution in how you bring winning times into the comparison because, as you know very well, tracks vary geographically, daily, hourly and even from rail to rail (on the same track)”

I am in agreement with the above statement with the exception of the caution recommendation. Uncle Mo is not regarded as a potential super horse because he has won three races. The times he recorded in these races are equally impressive as his margins of victory. You stated the following regarding To Honor and Serve: “He has been steered clear of "Mo" in order to position him as an up and coming rival, and no serious observer thinks that he could successfully compete with Mo at this stage.” If To Honor and Serve had recorded a time of 1:34 plus instead of 1:35.86 in the Nashua, would a serious observer have a different opinion? Secretariat is one of 136 Kentucky Derby winners. What set him apart from the other 135? He covered the 10F distance of the race in the fastest time ever. Was he just fortunate to catch a track bias in his favor? There is a direct relationship between speed and time. Dismiss times at your own peril.

Coldfacts 27 Dec 2010 4:11 PM

Jason,

Below is an extracts below if from a post under your blog titled “It's Time to Turn the Page”

“As usual I look forwards to you bringing to our attention the 2YOs on the radar going into the Gulfstream an SA winter meets. One of the new colts cited in your list has captured by attention. The Bob Baffert trained The Factor has an extremely interesting pedigree”

“This brings us to The Factor. As mentioned above he was sired by War Front a very speedy son of Danzig. His dam was sired by Miswaki who has the distinction of being sire and dam sire of mother and son Arc winners Urban Sea and Sea The Stars. Urban Sea also produced the brilliant Galileo. Miswaki was also dam sire of the sensational Daylami. Now these horses associated with Miswaki broodmares are top class turf performers. It would therefore be reasonable to assume that The Factor would be better suited to the turf. Assuming The Factor is not a turf horse there is a lot of upsides to his pedigree. His sire line is second in # of derby wins in the last 25YR. Two of Mr. Prospector’s sons have been dam sire of two of the last 5 derby winners. (Carson City/Smart Strike) Neither Carson City nor Smart Strike has the broodmare sire record of Miswaki. This colt is a product from the two lines that have been dominant on both sides of the derby chart. With Miswaki as dam sire this colt is a must follow.”

I assume you saw his track record performance while breaking his maiden. The new track at SA is obviously very fast but 1:06.98 for 6F is simply unbelievable for a 2YO. If an allowance of 2 seconds is given for the new surface, he would still record an adjusted time of 1:08.98. His action is fluent and he didn’t appear to be fading at the end. As I have stated in the extract above, Miswaki broodmares have been associated with some exceptional horses across the pond. Could The Factor be one for this continent?

It would be interesting to hear your comparison of The Factor first victory to that of Uncle Mo.

There is another colt that captured my attention at SA. He is Thirtyfirststreet winner of the California Breeders’ Champion Stakes. His pedigree is all turf and stamina. If this colt’s best efforts can be delivered on dirt he has to be a serious derby horse. He looks very big and strong and he only got going when he hit the post in a time of 1:22.20. His sire Good Journey is a son of Nureyev dam sire of Big Brown. His dam sire Sky Classic a son of Nijinsky was nosed out as the favorite in the 1992 Breeders’ Cup Turf.  This a colt is that is close to Northern Dancer top and bottom and has no business winning a 7F race against sprinters that can run a half mile in 44 second. He is definitely one to follow.

Coldfacts 27 Dec 2010 4:48 PM

Ranagulzion- I agree that War Pass relished the slop, but he was a very comfortable winner of the Champagne also.  I would say that he could have given Uncle Mo all he would want to handle.  But of course it is just speculation.  

As far as Mr Mott's handling of To Honor and Serve, you call it avoidance, others might call it taking care of his classic prospect.  Didn't he state that his horse didn't have the seasoning yet to put him in the BCJ?  And he did run a green race in the Nashua.  No matter how far ahead you feel Uncle Mo is right now, and Mr Mott probably feels the same way, it is the Kentucky Derby that he is pointing his horse.  There have been many a dominant two year old who just does not progress at 3.  So we will just have to wait and see.  As of now, yes, Uncle Mo is the better of the two.  

Footlick 27 Dec 2010 4:48 PM

2 words (names) now...followed by a half excited word (name).

Brethren...Archarcharch...Dialed In

Obviously Uncle Mo is the hot girl in class that everybody loves...but I love the possibilities these 2-3 horses bring to the table. With that said,there is a guy named Derek Simon who has created his own pace figures. For those of you who don't know him, he's a very talented handicapper that has termed Early and Late Speed Rations. He notes that the numbers that Uncle Mo has put up are wicked for a 2 yo. I put a lot of stock into what Derek says, but I also know that a lot can change over winter with maturity and others playing catch up. I love what I see in Brethren and Archarcharch. Dialed In is simply a gut feeling but Curlin proved a couple years ago a late bloomer can make a big impact in the TC. As far as The Factor, I don't see him being a real TC threat..I personally think classic distances won't fit him. As for Comma, he won't win the Derby simply because there is no way he won't be pressed to death on the front end.

Tiznow Tim 28 Dec 2010 11:44 AM

COLDFACTS,

I never dismiss time and I'm a believer in speed figures.  What I do differently from you, it would appear, is put them in context, giving due regard to variants, bias and surface conditions.  Uncle Mo is the fastest 2YO seen out this year and in each of his races he had plenty in reserve.  Are you going to deny those cold facts?

In comparing the 2YOs of the past if you avoid references to their 3YO form, you will see that Street Sense doesn't belong with the elite group for reasons already given.  I retracted my negative comments about Favourite Trick on this same basis.

Happily we do see eye to eye on a few things.  Thirtyfirststreet also caught my eye.  That's a true Triple crown prospect.  However, The Factor is a sprinter that may stretch out to a mile.  No way is he a Derby type colt.  The Danzig arm of Northern Dancer tend to be strong sprinter/miler types.  I'll challenge you on that fact.

Ranagulzion 28 Dec 2010 6:48 PM

Ranagulzion,

“The Danzig arm of Northern Dancer tends to be strong sprinter/miler types.  I'll challenge you on that fact.”

Cold Facts:

2008 Big Brown (FL/ K. Derby/Preakness) Sired by Boundary by Danzig

1992 Pine Bluff (AK Derby/Preakness/3rd Belmont) Sired by Danzig

1986 Danzig Connection (Belmont/2nd Travers /3rd Jockey Club Gold Cup/Haskell) ) Sired by Danzig

There are some that have been competitive over a distance of ground. The Factor appears to be very classy and I just love his action and equally love Miswaki as a broodmare sire. Are you aware that Thirtyfirststreet  dam sire Sky Classic either won or finished in the top three in five 10F races, Four 12F races and three 9F races. This colt will run forever. One last positive about this colt is the fact that he is in bred to sibling mares Thong/Moccasin. Moccasin was voted Co-Horse of the Year, 1965 as a 2YO.  Thong was the dam of Special who was the dam of NUREYEV & FAIRY BRIDGE. NUREYEV was the disqualified winner of the 1980 2000 Guineas. FAIRY BRIDGE was the dam of the great sire and sire of sires Sadler's Wells.  

Coldfacts 29 Dec 2010 3:35 PM

COLDFACTS,

You named two sons and a grandson to rebut my assertion that the Danzig arm of the Northern dancer line throws mostly sprinter/milers.  However I'll name four sons and two grandson, just to make my point sharper, and I could name others, so here goes; Dayjur (son, European champion sprinter), War Chant (son, Breeder's cup champion miler), War Front (son, Grade one level sprinter), Lost in The Fog (grandson, sired by Danzig's son Lost Soldier), Rock of Gibraltar (grandson, European champion miler sired by Danzig's son, Danehill).  I'm not sure how you would classify Hard Spun, the last great son of Danzig, that featured strongly in Triple Crown races of 2007 but won his first and only Grade One in the King's Bishop (the marquee race for the top 3YO sprinters run on the same day as the Travers).  Need I say more?

The Factor looks like a very talented sprinter/miler in the making, to me.

We are ad-idem concerning Thirtyfirststreet and I always liked his sire Good Journey as a top grass miler.  There is strong pedigree, top and bottom here.  Thirtyfirststreet has lots of class and stamina coming especially from his female family.  He definitely is worthy of making the realistic list of Derby prospects.  

Ranagulzion 29 Dec 2010 9:54 PM

I like Uncle Mo, but I'm not completely going with him til i see him at 3. He seems like he could be our superstar but he's gonna need the right conditioning to get there. I was impressed when I saw him at the BC. Plus I'm not gonna rule BAT out yet. He has some real talent in my opinion and some times that and heart is enough to excel them.

Also, kinda off topic, has any one heard anything about Position Limit? She was my one to watch but I haven't heard anything of her for a couple months.

And one more thing we could ponder, Awesome Feather in the Derby? Just a thought.

-Em

emlovestbs 30 Dec 2010 6:33 PM

Danzig was classified some time ago as an Intermediate/Classic split Chef-de-Race, meaning that even though he sired sprinter/miler types, he also sired as many classic types.  So, it is not out of the question for him or one of his sons getting a Derby winner by his breeding profile.

Footlick 30 Dec 2010 9:07 PM


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