No Derby Bind...Even After 105 Beyer

Al Stall Jr. wants to make sure he squashes all of the Kentucky Derby talk before it even gets started:

Bind will not be pointed to any of the Triple Crown races.

It's understandable that Stall felt the need to dismiss the Derby talk on Tuesday, a few days after Bind dazzled in his debut at Fair Grounds. The dark bay colt stole Risen Star day in New Orleans when he ran away to a 9 1/2-length maiden special weight victory while earning a 105 Beyer. What also turned heads was his final time--1:08.80 for six furlongs--after stalking freakish fractions of :21.39 and :44.73.

By comparison, multiple graded stakes placed 4-year-old filly Beautician ran six furlongs in 1:09.76 two races after Bind, and in the other three six furlongs races that day none of the winners could do any better than 1:11.37. So, it wasn't a souped-up track that day. And don't forget, this is Fair Grounds, not Santa Anita. The track record at Fair Grounds is 1:08.03.

"I can't figure it out," Stall said. "People were saying they must have souped-up the track because of the big day, but I don't think they had time. If you remember, they had night racing here on Friday. The races ended at about 9 p.m., so they didn't have time to do anything special. They didn't water it or pack it down, or anything like that. Horses were out here training at 6 a.m.

"I haven't seen factions like that here. I don't know where that came from."

And what about the 105 Beyer?

"People are telling me it's the fastest breakout Beyer ever (for a first-time starter). I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was told. The Rag numbers haven't come out yet."

(For the record, it is believed that the highest first-time Beyer was Formal Gold in 1996 when he received a 112 at Monmouth. Ironically, Bind's sire, Pulpit, received a 107 the following year in his debut).

Bind showed promise early on for Stall, even though he was a bit of a late-bloomer. A February foal, he is a son of Pulpit, out of the Unbridled mare Check. He's a homebred of Claiborne Farm, owned in partnership with Adele Dilschneider. Sound familiar?

"It's impossible to predict that kind of debut effort," Stall said. "But he clicked all the boxes from the start. He was wonderful looking, fit, trained the right way, had a great mind, and was fast-he showed everything you would want in a young horse.

"I knew he was going to make a good showing, but he's clearly going to be a two-turn horse so I wasn't sure he would show that kind of speed. Sometimes with these kinds of horses they break slowly, maybe have one horse beaten early one, and then come flying at the end to finish second or third."

After a debut performance like that the obvious question on everyone's mind is, where will he go next? As with all of his horses, including Breeders' Cup Classic winner Blame, Stall will be patient.

"None of that Triple Crown stuff," he said. "Maybe if he did it in December we would have thought about that. But his next race will probably be a one-other-than (allowance), either here or at Keeneland. I'm not sure what Fair Grounds has. We'll stretch him out a bit, possibly two turns, maybe a mile and 70 if it's here.

"After that, it's hard to say. If we're talking about big things later, maybe the Super Derby or Travers; something like that.

"He came out of the race great. Hopefully he will keep progressing, but you never know."


Leave a Comment:


Just like I thought. Bravo Jason.

22 Feb 2011 12:22 PM

Good for Mr Stall!

22 Feb 2011 12:25 PM

Love him for the Travers/later part of the year. His race was the best on Saturday by far.

22 Feb 2011 12:26 PM

Glad they won't be ruining the horse by hurrying for the Derby.  Maybe they can pull a Tiznow.  Big fan of Stall and owners.

22 Feb 2011 12:26 PM

I like this plan.  The horse obviously is legit and has much talent.  Bring him along patiently and concentrate on the summer derby and the fall races.  Stall maintains that he thought that Bind was a two turn horse all along.  If he develops like they think he will this could be one great year for the three year olds and boost horse racing in general.

22 Feb 2011 12:34 PM
Greg Baird

Absolutely awesome performance. Hope he runs again at FG before end of meet

22 Feb 2011 12:36 PM
Karen in Texas

Good that Mr. Stall addressed the issue sooner rather than later--now there won't be endless speculation about the path they're taking!

22 Feb 2011 12:44 PM
Jeff Moss

Pulpit had a higher Beyer debut than his son.  I think it was 108 or 110.  But it was definitely higher than 105.

22 Feb 2011 2:17 PM

I'm quite glad they will bypass the Triple Crown.  I think far too many young horses are essentially "ruined" by rushing for the Derby.  There is far more to racing than the first Saturday in May and wish Mr. Stall the best of luck in his future endeavors with Bind.

22 Feb 2011 2:32 PM
Forbidden Apple

I think this was a non-issue from the start. Anyone that follows Al Stall knows that he would not push a horse for the KY Derby. Him and his owners are 100% class and certainly don't need the money. He has another horse who just broke his maiden last month that I can't recall, looks like he has bright future too. Al Stall and Tom Proctor are two trainers that I admire and respect a great deal.

22 Feb 2011 2:34 PM

Bet Rosie thought she'd sprouted wings! Hope she gets to keep him.

22 Feb 2011 2:48 PM
Big Lou

Congratulations to all the connections.This triple crown races really should be run at the time Breeders Cup races are run.Tha only purpose of this is just thinking about the horses.That way all of them are mature enough to take on this races

22 Feb 2011 2:51 PM
Fran Loszynski

Like some wonderful owners I know (Afleet Alex) your horse means alot to you. I applaud the fact that Bind has talented owners and trainer, yes, talented because they realize it's not the hoofs of the racehorse, but the "heart". It takes an extraordinary "talent" to know that. See you at the Travers.

22 Feb 2011 2:53 PM

We need more responsible trainers just like him... way to go, Mr. Stall. Now if you can just convince Claiborne that he needs a FOUR-year-old season, too! ;-)

22 Feb 2011 3:10 PM

This is "old school", breeders racing their own horses and taking their time with them.  

22 Feb 2011 3:11 PM
Calling them out

LOL,UM's people are really,really trying their darnest to keep him away from the up and comers.I predict if the made to order Timely Writer doesn't fill we might see him in the Sunland Park Derby-LOL.I question why would they take the conservative route to the Derby with this so called super horse.

22 Feb 2011 3:28 PM

On Dan Illman's blog on he posted the past performances for Pulpit.  Pulpit received a 107 Beyer in his debut followed by a 108 Beyer.  Made me think of Bind and how these connections won't rush the horse to try to get to the Derby as Pulpit may have been.

22 Feb 2011 3:39 PM

Bind looked very good.  I look forward to him and Cal Nation hooking up this summer.  Mo is at Gulfstream March 12th I will be at the same table Jason cheering him on!

22 Feb 2011 3:46 PM

Is there any chance he'll be a sprinter?  Or does everyone think he'll take to longer distances.

22 Feb 2011 3:49 PM
Billy's Empire

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Baffert do the same excat thing last year with Conveyance that he is doing with the Factor? We see how that worked out for him. Send him to get the graded earnings against a weak field, go to CD, and finish up the track. How has Conveyance been running as of late???

22 Feb 2011 4:04 PM


Off the subject but on the subject of your article.

Baffert Targets Sunland Derby for The Factor.

That might be a good place to give him a try at 2 turns.

22 Feb 2011 4:22 PM

Calling them out, seriously?  Pletcher isn't just thinking about the Derby with UM he is thinking how can I have a fresh enough horse to win the Belmont after winning the Derby where he will be 8 to 5 and the Preakness where he will be 1 to 5.  His horse is that good and the opportunity to win all 3 may never come to him again.  Pletcher is just 5 races away from history.  After the Timely he will be down to 4.

22 Feb 2011 4:22 PM

I read somewhere that someone stated that Bind’s 105 was possibly the highest first time starter Beyer.  Actually the fastest first time starter Beyer since official records were kept was Formal Gold's 112 when he won his first start, a 6 furlong maiden race at Monmouth in 1.09.1 and received a 112.  In his next race he regressed to a 100 and then a 99 and then reeled off 12 consecutive 100 plus Beyers, including his last three races when he scored 126, 124 and 125 respectively.  Seeing that Bind looks like a true distance horse we can expect big things from him as the year winds down.

22 Feb 2011 4:26 PM


I'm with you.  Rosie is turning into an exceptional jockey and fits a horse like Bind perfectly.  It is no acident that she is leading rider at the Fair Grounds.  I would like to see her, when she is ready, compete on the largest stage against the top jocks.  She is excellent at rating a horse and seems to know exactly when to pull the trigger.

22 Feb 2011 4:28 PM
Jason Shandler

Jeff and Laz: After looking it up you are both correct. I guess that's why Al was cautious with his comments on that subject.

22 Feb 2011 4:32 PM

Here’s what I don’t understand and possibly raises a small red flag for me.  They enter Uncle Mo in the one mile, one-turn Timely Writer (they even switch dates to accommodate), instead of a more trying two turn race like the Tampa Derby.  Pletcher said that less travel and the Gulfstream surface is more appealing.  If that’s the case why didn’t they aim for the Fountain of Youth the week before?  At least like the Tampa Derby there would be some pretty stiff competition.  Instead they will put him in a race that will have modest competition at best (if it fills), run on what will probably be a souped up speed biased track and stay on or very near close to the lead.  If they keep this BS up Mo will need an oxygen tank to get around the track come Belmont time.

22 Feb 2011 4:43 PM
Calling them out

Sure Draynay- keep telling yourself that.As good a trainer Pletcher is with his stock he has no idea on how to get a horse ready for the Triple Crown,just check out his abysmal record in the Classics.

22 Feb 2011 4:49 PM
Karen in Texas

I hope Rosie gets to stay on Bind as well. She is becoming my favorite female jockey since Donna Barton (Brothers).

22 Feb 2011 5:05 PM

Lazmannick, let me remind you Mr. Pletcher has other horses and OTHER owners who would like to get into the Derby.  Uncle Mo whipping a few horses in the Timely doesn't hamper anyone else getting into the Derby.  Pletcher has already given plenty of notice he is going to the Wood with Mo so horses in need of $ stay clear.  Calling the out, I said that about Pletcher last year but his record of winning big races of late is 2nd to none.  He is just a few races away from legend status and he knows Uncle Mo can get him there if he can just get him in the gate for 5 straight races.  After he wins the Derby he will be a 1 to 5 shot in every race he runs after that.  I'm sure he will be 1 to 5 in the Timely and 1 to 5 in the Wood.

22 Feb 2011 5:09 PM

Calling them out

As much as I like Todd and as much as I respect his decisions, I'm with you.  He's had a ton of Derby hopefuls, but how many horses has he trained that could actually compete in a total Triple Crown?  The TC winners generally need to race and be brought along with a series of sprint races and then routes.  The only one that really didn’t follow that route was Seattle Slew with three races at two and then three races leading up to the Derby, and three of the six races were actually sprints.  Slew got away with it because his crop was not a strong one (it took until he faced older for people to see how truly great he was).  All the other TC winners had the proper foundation.

Billy’s Empire.

Call out Baffertt and The Factor all you want, but isn’t Moe scheduled to take an easy road also in the Timely Writer with actually only one two turn race scheduled in 2011 and two in total in his career before the Derby?  I don’t think The Factor is a Derby horse, but he did kick in after his last and took off again through the remainder of the stretch and into the clubhouse turn.  And I don’t think that Conveyance is quite the horse that The Factor is at the same stage in his career.

22 Feb 2011 5:18 PM
Carlos in Cali

Don't be surprised if we see Bind run in the Preakness after all is said and done,ala Bernardini if he's tearing down the Stall(pun intended).

Billy's Empire: Conveyance won the Rebel before placing in the Sunland Park Derby.He's no idiot,he knows the only place The 'pace' Factor will get 9f is @ SP where speed holds and the field will consist of Gr.III type caliber.Plus,the purse money isn't too shabby either...pretender not a contender.

To Honor And Serve will show us how a legitimate Derby contender looks like in the upcoming FOY.. stay tuned,this is one Bad @$$ Dude!

22 Feb 2011 5:24 PM

Draynay you are correct....

22 Feb 2011 6:26 PM

Laz - agree with your last comment.  Red flags are popping up.

22 Feb 2011 6:38 PM
Dr Drunkinbum


   I'll tell you what I think of Bind. Back to back Breeder's Cup Classic wins if they don't retire him after one. Would love to see a colt do that again. Stall has got to be in the top three trainers worldwide. More should get that Derby Fever vaccination that he got and we'd have more horses finding their niche and having better careers.

22 Feb 2011 6:50 PM
tom m

i disagree with stall.based on his 1rst race,this is not your average race horse.bind not only showed he is incredibly fast.he is bred to run allday.he also did it the right way.he relaxed off super fast fractions and never looked uncomfortable or eager .stall deserves a lot of credit for having him so ready physically and mentally for his debut. i'd run him in the fair grounds derby prep,then go from there.let's not have a short memory.big brown won in a walk in a 3 horse off the turf race,then went and won the florida derby.the rest was history.please don't tell me the difference was he ran as a 2yo.that was 1 race on the turf in far as the value of the today is geared towards the derby.should he win this race and progress with another win.the stud value will be off the wall.the option is wait,and if he becomes the star he shows.his value will be much less

tom m

22 Feb 2011 7:03 PM


22 Feb 2011 7:16 PM

An awesome performance by a first-timer, it goes without saying.  In anybody else's hands they might get a little ambitious quickly after such razzle dazzle, but that's not the m.o. of trainer Stall or the owners.

22 Feb 2011 7:23 PM

Why is everyone in a huff about The Factor.  Baffert said he will let the horse tell them where to go.  Baffert said he wants to stretch him out little by little.  It really doesn't sound like he is thinking Derby.  I hope it's the Met Mile they will point him to.

22 Feb 2011 7:40 PM

Classic Al, he is not going to get in a hurry and push any of his horses. This is going to be a fun horse to follow, tremendous looks and unlimited talent. He is what dreams as a owner are made of.

22 Feb 2011 8:08 PM


I agree with your logic about missing the Tampa Derby (ugh).  However, why not enter a good allowance race at 9F around two turns instead of the Timely Writer?  The greats of the past used to start their season off in an allowance race.  It isn't a sign of weakness.  But it is logical when preparing Mo for the rigors ahead.

22 Feb 2011 8:27 PM

Carlos in Cali,

Lets see how THS cope with Soldat in the FOY ma bro.

22 Feb 2011 8:40 PM
Kristen Ohler

What I get real excited about is the 3 year olds who don't make it to the Derby, the trainers who don't rush their horses into the Triple Crown, who run all year without getting burned out.  Remember Freisian Fire?  I look forward to Bind to run in all the other 3 year old races.  I also look forward to the Giant's Causeway colt Bowman's Causeway who looks very promising.  And there is plenty more.  I love the Triple as much as anyone, but there are so many other nice horses that don't make it to the big 3 that are so much fun to watch.  The Triple Crown isn't everything.  Good for Al Stall.  He has a potential star.  Love those Pulpits.

22 Feb 2011 8:56 PM

forest music had a 105 beyer first time out at laurel going 6 furlongs in 1:08 and change winning by the length of the stretch.  

22 Feb 2011 9:57 PM
Dr Drunkinbum


  How do you manage to get to the blog without seeing the headlines? It's most likely the Sunland Derby at 9f for The Factor with the small increment being 7f to 9f. And a long time being Feb 20 to Mar 27. Derby Fever took over this morning and has settled in. It will be tough to shake.

22 Feb 2011 10:08 PM

It's called being at work, Doc.  We'll see if he really goes there though.

22 Feb 2011 10:25 PM
Ted from LA

Ted from LA would have a difficult time waiting on a horse like Bind.  He could be the next Secretariat, but we'll never know (at least as far as the Triple Crown goes).  Who is the owner?  I tend to skim the articles and only read my own posts.  It's not very often that a horse like this comes along.  Not everyone remembers who wins the Super Derby.  My Derby fever would get the best of me with a horse like this.  There.  I said it.  I'm watching Message in a Bottle.  What a romantic love story.

22 Feb 2011 10:56 PM

I love that Stall is taking his time with Bind. He feels that he would be a summer/fall horse than a triple crown horse and fine with me. It gives a new three with an upside in August instead of some horse owner looking forward to the breeding shed.

22 Feb 2011 11:05 PM

Lazzmanick, look at it this way. Pletcher knows he is going to win the Timely and Wood without much trouble.  Few are going to the Wood because they need money and why face Mo unless you have to?  Pletcher also knows that if the racing Gods are smiling Mo is going to win the Derby and Preakness.  So his mission is to win them as easily as possible to have enough to take on 8 or 10 horses that are rested trying to beat him at Belmont.  A easy trip to Kentucky is what Mo needs if he is going to have enough left in the tank to take on talented rested colts that skipped the Preakness to beat him at Belmont. Belmont is the key to legendary status.

23 Feb 2011 12:08 AM
Poetic Justice

I'll sell it to the rich

And tell it to the poor.

I'll tell it to the young

And yell it to the old.

I'll tell it to the warm

And sell it to the cold.

This much I know,

Coming down the stretch,he will have no more.

Save your Doe and Say No to Mo!

Peace and Bacon grease.

23 Feb 2011 12:22 AM

Ted from LA

This is the message in the bottle......Buckpasser missed the Triple Crown races and look how he turned out.  Come to think of it, so did Dr. Fager.

23 Feb 2011 12:34 AM
Dr Drunkinbum


  Yeah, let's wait and see. I hate to see him go the way of the Conveyance belt. I had a lot more faith in The Factor stretching out to 9f and 10f prior to the 7f win. I don't think they can pull it off, slowing him down enough especially if there is other speed in the race. Love his speed and fluid stride and immense talent nvertheless. I'd like to see it happen but it would surprise me. He might even win the Sunland but it could take a toll. Soldat on Saturday but it could be a duel with To Honor if he is ready.

23 Feb 2011 12:38 AM
Matthew W

Bind...Runflatout....and this past Sat filly Mildly Offensive....horses who have inspired in maiden wins, that's for sure....I think Mildly Offensive is the best three year old filly of her crop, and I'll say it after her one and only race--Uncle Mo clear #1 male three year old....Bourbon Bay slightly best at 1 1/2 turf....and even though the division in strong--as strong as I can remember--Caracortado is the best turf miler in US and maybe in the world--he corners real good/has monster kick--I'm going to the Big Cap--not so much to see the Big Cap--but to see the Kilroe Mile Caracortado/Sidney's Candy/Jeranimo/The Usual QT---love Caracortado to blow them away at 2-1 and I'll be hammering him and cashing, thank you very much! Twirling Candy best middle distance--would love to see Giant Oak come out here, I would bet him big to beat Twirling--a huge angle: when they're not bred for the distance--bet against them first time 1 1/4---especially when he's gonna be 1/2 odds! As much as I love Uncle Mo--same goes for him! Jaycito is much better bred for the Derby Distance! He's in Baffert's hands now--he's already "in" so to speak--all he ( Baffert) needs to do is train him to peak on first Sat--just like Tadd I mean Todd--just like Todd--only Victory Gallop throws more stamina than Indian Charlie--Jaycito has the class/Jaycito has the stamina/Jaycito has Baffert---I got him at 27-1 in futures and backed him up with MoMo and "all others"....think St Trinnians is by far best female horse in country....think Smiling Tiger gives Big Drama a run for his $$...think the West is way strong this year--just like last year, when we had the best three year old colt/best three year old filly /AND the legend---Santa Anita is back to dirt--too fast , for sure, but you CAN figure the fractions better--it's way too early to say nothings gonna come outta the West--the West has been at the forefront of racing class for years and years and will be for years to come!

23 Feb 2011 1:43 AM

I think Ted(meg) from LA is spending to much time with the T.V and not enough time minding the horses.

This is getting to be frightening.  I guess next he will be telling the women whats the best laundry detergent to  

Ted from LA needs to get outdoors and hit the nearest race track soon as possible, lol.....

23 Feb 2011 6:32 AM

If the Factor and Mo both make the gate in the Derby, shouldn't handicappers look for other horses. These two will run up front and cook each other; No?

23 Feb 2011 7:29 AM
Don from PA/DE

Jason, I loved Bind's performace at FG and this subject seems very appropriate to him for KD saga, but why not mention "Fort Hughes", to me, despite "The Factor" (running on a out of balance track surface = not normal) and "Bind", Fort Hughes has put up the numbers and ran 108' on a dead track in NY, he is not KD bound either, but he is the best sprinter I have seen in the 2-3yr old crop and would loveto see these three race on an east coast track, this would be fair and very interesting, no mention of FortHughes? Don

23 Feb 2011 8:40 AM

Not on the Derby Trail?  GOOD!!!

There is life after the TC--a lot of life. Just hopes this horse stays sound.

23 Feb 2011 8:50 AM

Bind looks like a monster, and I can't wait to see more.  TC Trail or not, I think he'll be in a solid top 5 by August.  We're looking at the same team as Blame with Claibourne and Dilschneider, and Stall.

23 Feb 2011 8:57 AM
Bill Daly

Patience is certainly a virtue when it comes to racehorses.  Neither Buckpasser nor Dr. Fager would have ever realized their greatness had their connections rushed them into the Triple Crown.  For a variety of reasons, neither horse was ready for that series of races.  Stall is very wise and if Bind develops as he expects him to we will have something to really talk about in a few months.

23 Feb 2011 9:12 AM
Ted from LA

Has anyone seen the movie Beaches?  Every time I hear the theme song I think of Dr. Drunkinbum.  trackjack, are you in the contest yet?  List your stable so I can cheat off you.  Thanks in advance.  Go Buckeyes.

23 Feb 2011 9:26 AM
Pedigree Ann

A horse needs to be FIT for the Triple Crown, not fresh, and yes, the two are mutually exclusive. Until trainers remember how to condition horses to peak fitness instead of bringing them off of layoffs (6-8 weeks)for every race, a Triple Crown winner is a pipe-dream.

23 Feb 2011 9:48 AM
Ted from LA

Ted from LA likes to eat cod,

While listening to his iPod.

He is giving Uncle Mo the nod.

That 12:22 AM post was just odd.

23 Feb 2011 10:09 AM

Pedigree Ann - I agree completely with your 9:48 AM comment.  Well said.

23 Feb 2011 10:29 AM

Matthew, California is again way behind in talent.  If you are placing your hat on the Factor you have 0 chance of winning a single Triple Crown race.

23 Feb 2011 11:05 AM

Santiva is getting no respect and it's hard to figure out why.  He got the exact race he needed and should be much better next time out.  Brethren will go undefeated into the Tampa Derby and come out undefeated.  From there the Florida Derby to take on the big boys like Dialed In and To Honor and Serve.  I believe Brethren will show up undefeated to the Derby along with Uncle Mo.  Jason, when was the last time a trainer had 3 of his horses finish 1,2,3 in the Derby?

23 Feb 2011 11:20 AM


Are you saying Brethren wins the Derby, Cal Nation finishes second and Stay Thirsty third?  lol.....

23 Feb 2011 11:59 AM


Great analogy.  The Belmont is usually always the key to winning the Triple Crown……….Now reality.

The Belmont has been won before by horses that have been lightly raced like Jazil, Da’ Tara, etc., horses that don’t even come close to the raw talent that Uncle Mo has.  However, none of these horses won the Belmont after competing in the Derby and Preakness and virtually no TC winner since Whirlaway (with the exception of Seattle Slew), has won the TC without having a very rigorous and ambitious campaign leading up to it.

I love Mo.  I hate how they are approaching the TC.  This is where Pletcher has to step up if he’s going to reach the so called legendary status you say he is close to attaining.  Out of the dozens and dozens of legitimate Derby horses he’s trained over the years, he’s never brought a horse into the TC with the foundation to win it.

23 Feb 2011 12:12 PM
Dr Drunkinbum


   Only a fool would try to keep up with The Factor and Mo's Mama didn't raise no fools. Mo will rate and if he gets a good position, he could pounce at the right time and win. But his prep schedule is scary and doesn't set him up for The Derby. And if he runs in The Wood he has to buck recent history just to get to The Derby.

23 Feb 2011 12:46 PM

I think that Brethren is an awesome talent and is definitely in the top three or so to win the Derby.  He might also be the reason that Mo is skipping the Tampa Derby (and I don’t mean the political end like earnings).  Brethren reminds me of a legendary mare that just retired, a mare that always did just enough to win.  In his first race he ran really fast (6F in 1.08.4 after a head-to-head dual throughout and won by half a length.  In his next at a mile, he runs a moderate 1.36.3 coming from off the pace and wins by just under 2 lengths.  In the Sam F. Davis he stalked without being hurried, made a move and won the 1 1/16M race by an easy four lengths in a tepid 1.45, once again just exerting himself enough to get the job done.  We know he can run fast (his opener) and we know he can close.  He is the real deal.

23 Feb 2011 1:10 PM
Forbidden Apple


It's been a long time since I heave heard anyone mention Formal Gold's name. He was an absolute freak and smashed Skip Away several times, but still got little respect as a horse. His untimely injury hurt and I felt bad for his trainer William Perry. Is he still an active trainer at Monmouth?

The Sunland Derby is the perfect spot for The Factor to run a two turn race. And the $800k purse is not to shabby either.

Who cares where Mo is going to make his first start. Let me know when he wins a race at 1 1/8 miles or further. He is getting way to much press for a horse that has zero starts this year. Is anyone that fascinated with every move that Pletcher makes with Mo? Maybe there should be a blog about what Mo should be eating for breakfast.

23 Feb 2011 1:52 PM
Jason Shandler

Forbidden Apple: You don't like the hype? Dont read it.

23 Feb 2011 2:01 PM
Billy's Empire

Forbidden Apple, there is a Facebook page and twitter for that. You can follow Mo if you are that interested.

As far as the Factor, I doubt with his runnning style he does much of anything past a mile. If he rates, which I doubt, he may be able to stretch out, but he would be better served running 6-8 panels. I am still waiting for Dyanamize to race in Cali. He has the pedigree to run all day long.

23 Feb 2011 2:36 PM
Carlos in Cali

OK,so what 'several' factors came into play Re: Uncle Mo's seasonal debut?... Is it because the Palm Meadows & GP surfaces are similar and the ride is shorter?..

I'd say that's a 'couple' of factors not several.I'm a fan of Todd,but to me that's totally hogwash,I mean he/they specifically mapped-out Uncle Mo's plans and they knew from the beginning the difference between PM's & TBD's surface AND they knew the traveling distance between such sites.What gives? Why change plans all of a sudden? What's the REAL reason?..

Where's our crack sideline reporter Billy's Empire when we need him!

23 Feb 2011 3:08 PM

You knew even after seeing Bind's performance that he wouldn't be pointed to the Derby.  It's just not the M.O. of those connections, which is admirable.  Unlike Deviation, impressive in his maiden win who got moved right up to stakes competition the next out.

I think this crop of 3 year olds is pretty ordinary, with the exeception of a few standouts.  I just know its hard to get too excited about horses who have run well 2 or 3 times, and about a Derby favorite who won't make his 3 year old debut until March.  Wake me up on Derby day, will ya?!

23 Feb 2011 3:16 PM

Lazmannick, things are different now.  Back in the 1970's the Triple Crown winners didn't have to face 6 or 7 horses that skipped the Preakness to run fresh in the Belmont.  Like I said before Pletcher is not worried about the Derby or Preakness.  He knows his horse will be heavily favored to win both.  He needs a fresh enough horse for the Belmont because he knows Zito and others will skip the Preakness and throw fresh horses at Mo in the Belmont. There is no point in taxing the horse now.  He will go through hell trying to win the Triple Crown.

23 Feb 2011 3:54 PM
no mo mo

2011 is going to be the year your horse dominates racing like no other 3 year old ever has.  I expect him to run the table all year and pick up HOY at the end.  Go Mo go !

Draynay 11 Feb 2011 12:32 AM

Less than 2 yrs ago this neanderthal was touting RA's 3 yr old campaign as the one to never be matched in his lifetime. Now Unca Schmoe is going to dominate 3 yr old racing like no other has? If you quizzed this guy on what he said he wouldn't be able to remember anything over 24 hrs ago.    

23 Feb 2011 4:45 PM

I can't understand why people knock the Sunland Derby.  The race is an ideal distance at 9F and the winner's share of the $800K purse has to be around $480K, which in itself is enough to qualify for the Kentucky Derby, and the race is on dirt.  Who cares about the G3 status?

23 Feb 2011 4:47 PM

Forbidden Apple

Formal Gold raced at a time when he, Skip Away and Will’s Way were really hard knockers in the handicap division in the east.  Formal Gold beat Skip Away 3 times when finishing first and Skip Away beat him twice.  Will’s Way beat them both in a tremendous Whitney (by a nose over Formal Gold).  Not many realize that Formal Gold was a Canadian Bred but other than the BCC at Woodbine in 1996, never raced in Canada.  Sometimes it takes horses months to get it back together after racing in the Dubai Classic races, and some are never the same again.  Formal Gold’s career seemed to take off when he came back when he won the Brooklyn, Iselin and Woodward, finished second by a nose in the Whitney and 2nd by a head in the Mass Cap to Skip Away.

23 Feb 2011 4:47 PM
Mike Relva


Good points regarding Sunland. This race sets up well.

23 Feb 2011 5:25 PM
Mike Relva


That's funny. Sice when have you ever cared about taxing a horse? lol

23 Feb 2011 5:25 PM
Mike Relva


It's absurd,isn't it? What some will do for a little attention! lol

23 Feb 2011 5:31 PM
Mike Relva


Trust me,could care less what Pletcher does. Alot will have their feelings hurt in a couple months from now.

23 Feb 2011 5:47 PM
Dr Drunkinbum


   Very good point about the Sunland Derby. I imagine some people will knock the Sunland Derby but think the UnTimely Rider for Mo is fine. But how is it going to fill? Bribery?

23 Feb 2011 6:03 PM
Forbidden Apple


The Whitney was a complete heartbreaker for me, I was not so happy with Desormeaux's ride. Formal Gold's best race was the Iselin in my opinion, I got to watch it live. At the time he broke a 47 or 48 year old track record. Where can I find the quarter mile splits of the Iselin? If I remember correctly, each consecutive quarter mile was faster than the one before it. I met the exercise rider at Saratoga that summer and began following Formal Gold from that point on. After the Iselin I went down to Monmouth to watch his final breeze before leaving for CA. The horse looked like cast iron, he was ready to win the B.C. Classic. One week before the race, the exercise rider called me and told me that the horse fractured his leg. That was one of the biggest downers in all of the years I have been following horse racing. I ended up going anyway and sat in John Murphy's (Formal Golds owner) box seat for the races. We all know what happened, Skip Away was a runaway winner.

23 Feb 2011 6:23 PM


Sunland Derby has a purse of $800,000, ($400,000) to the winner and not too bad for 2ND place either, ($176,000).

23 Feb 2011 7:10 PM

If there are two things reading these blogs have confirmed with great regularity they are:

- Any horse Draynay gets overly flambouyant about will ultimately go quietly into retirement no matter how convincing they were early on in their careers.

- Any horse someone starts touting as the next TC winner probably won't even make it to the Derby, and if they do they won't win it.

These things are like the kiss of death to a racehorse!

23 Feb 2011 7:15 PM

Runfast159- flamboyant.  wish I had said that.  What a visual!

23 Feb 2011 7:47 PM
Ted from LA

Ted from LA finally figured out who Dray has been reminding him of for the past two years since I joined this blog.

23 Feb 2011 7:58 PM

Rachel Alexandra was the best 3 year old I have ever seen.  She was perfect.

23 Feb 2011 8:23 PM

Runfast159, yes I have been nuts about a few horses over the last few years namely Quality Road, Rachel Alexandra and Big Brown.  What did I know right ?  See you all at Gulfstream for the big race March 12th.

23 Feb 2011 9:33 PM

I will be at the Fountain this weekend enjoying the wonderful sunshine and I will also be getting plenty of pictures of the winner Gourmet Dinner.  The top jock in the country is coming in for a reason.  Gourmet Dinner is ready to roll.  His last trip was terrible.  He had to wait behind a wall of horses while Dialed in zipped by him on the outside.  When he finally got room he was off and running but too late.  Dialed In is WAY over rated by that performance.  Gourmet is a better horse and with Ramon aboard he is MUCH better.  To Honor and Serve does not need a win right now and Mr. Mott is in no hurry.

23 Feb 2011 11:08 PM
The Bid

Dray...AGREED!!! You take what She did @ 3 and what The Bid did @4 and you have The 2 Greatest campaigns EVER by 2 of The Best EVER!!!...Re: Todd P.

What if The Writer doesn't fill??? Tampa Derby won't hurt Mo at all...It may shut up RELVA and Co. when MO scares the HELL out of Brethren at the top of the stretch!!! It may have a "Tapizar" effect on Brethren and Mr.Walden's horse will never be the same going into THE DERBY!!!!LMAO

23 Feb 2011 11:20 PM

Forbidden Apple:

Here's Formal Gold's splits for the Whitney:


There was a horse that ran every quarter faster than the preceeding quarter in a 10F race.  It might have been Secretariat or Easy Goer.  I can't say for sure but I'm sure that someone who posts on here knows because I have seen it mentioned before.  

23 Feb 2011 11:39 PM
Ted from LA

Off Topic:  I need some advise.  Should I watch Terms of Endearment or The Notebook tomorrow night?

24 Feb 2011 12:03 AM
Matthew W

They're going in Sunland for the $$--and no, I'm not on board the Factor express--he looks like a sprinter to me--Jaycito is Baffert's ace---I'm in!

24 Feb 2011 12:24 AM


Get your facts straight.  Mo's connection never committed to race him in the Tampa Bay Derby.  They said it was a possibility.  They were always fluid regarding his first race back but only committed firmly to the Wood memorial at Aqueduct.  The colt is so good and doing so well they can afford to play around with their options buddy.  

BTW who do you like in the Hutchenson?  Could I hazzard a guess?  Crossbow, another son of Bernardini (LOL).  I tell you something, a little drama will make that race very exciting.

In the FOY I'm taking Gourmet Dinner to outrun Soldat, Bowman's Causeway and To Honour and Serve up the lane.  

24 Feb 2011 1:34 AM

Ted from LA : Was it the driver in the Ad prior to the movie or was it the guy in the movie that reminds you of Draynay ?

LAZ : I agree with all your posts, the red flag, SP, glad you posted them.  I wouldn't even come close posting them the way you did.

I need to come up with my 10 horses for the RTTR, need help with probables for Hutcheson Stakes, anyone know who's pointing for this race ?

24 Feb 2011 4:36 AM

Ted from LA: per your 7:58 post..Absolutely, a real cooler!

24 Feb 2011 8:11 AM

Meg from LA - awesome clip.  Great movie.

24 Feb 2011 9:36 AM
Forbidden Apple


Thank you for the information, but I was looking for the splits in the 1997 Iselin.


For the past 2 weeks you have been calling Gourmet Dinner a joke and not a real Triple Crown trail horse. And now he is ready to roll and your top pick, you are a blogging/walking joke.

24 Feb 2011 10:29 AM

Laz - Secretariat ran each quarter faster than the last in The Kentucky Derby.

24 Feb 2011 11:15 AM

2:24- I thought that was the Belmont.  Was it the Derby too?

24 Feb 2011 11:21 AM

Forbidden Apple

The 1996 Iselin at 1 1/16M times in 1.40.20 which was the new track record which is still the track record today.  Formal Gold lead all the way and got a 124 Beyer:


24 Feb 2011 11:33 AM

Forbidden Apple, I don't remember ever calling Gourmet Dinner a joke. The fact remains his ride last time out was terrible and made Dialed In look like more than he is.  Gourmet Dinner was the better horse that day but got a horrible ride.  The switch to Ramon will make all the difference and the 34 second blowout tells me all I need to know.  Gourmet Dinner wins !

24 Feb 2011 11:41 AM

Forbidden Apple

The 1997 Iselin at 1 1/16M timed in 1.40.20 which was the new track record which is still the track record today.  Formal Gold lead all the way and got a 124 Beyer:


24 Feb 2011 12:03 PM
Forbidden Apple

Wow, thanks again Lazmannick, every quarter mile was faster than the previous one.


Come on pal, take a look back at your comments every time I mentioned that Dialed In beat Gourmet Dinner and Mucho Macho Man. Just admit that you are wrong for once and then maybe some people will give you a touch of respect. You have been whining for months now that Uncle Mo is the only horse that matters.

Did you read the above comments by Moonie? The word at Palm Meadows is that Mo is not a sound animal. That is not good news at all, I want to see him run healthy and then there will be no weak excuses from anyone.

24 Feb 2011 12:30 PM

Forbidden Apple, in case you haven't figured it out yet the Fountain is on Saturday.  The only thing I can deal with are the horses IN THE RACE.  In my expert opinion the winner will be Gourmet Dinner.  The workout and switch to the top jock in the nation is all I need to see.  My analysis of his last race is dead on.  Dialed In got a dream trip while GD was stuck behind horses having to hold up for 2 furlongs.  Watch the race. Better yet give us the winner of the Fountain and why so we can all learn from you and your expert handicapping.  Step up.

24 Feb 2011 1:24 PM


Did you ever figure why they have spring training in baseball and a rigorous training regimen in football before the actual season starts?  It’s to work out the kinks and work on what needs to be improved and to get in game shape before the season actually starts so that the players will be ready to go from the get go.  NO ONE IS BABIED.

24 Feb 2011 1:26 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Ted from LA

   Hoosiers. And go eat a big, fat steak, with a baked potatoe. No salad. You're scaring me. Then get out and mend the fences.

24 Feb 2011 1:31 PM
Ted from LA

Ted from LA just had the best steak and baked potato (or as Dan Quayle and Dr. D would say, "potatoe.") of his life.  I'm watching Braveheart (just the lopping off of heads scenes) and going bear hunting later.  Then I am going to call the Governor of Wisconsin and pretend I am Mike Repole and tell him I am donating Uncle Mo to him to help his budget woes.  I want to see if I can get him down to Louisville thinking he is the owner of the Derby favorite.

24 Feb 2011 1:51 PM
Jason Shandler

Meg from La: Let's hear your top 5 movies of all-time. Well, that is, after Pretty Woman, which Im sure is No. 1 on your list.

24 Feb 2011 1:57 PM
Dr Drunkinbum

Ted from LA

  Baked potatoes. Bear hunting with your bare hands. Or make friends with one and go catch salmon together. You be the leader. Braveheart is good. Sounds like you're starting to turn things around.

24 Feb 2011 2:03 PM

I bet Meg from LA loves a good Matthew McConaughhey romantic comedy.

Footlick - Secretariat did not run successively faster fractions in the Belmont.  An interesting note about the Belmont, however, is that he was hand-timed after crossing the wire and would have broken the world record for 1 5/8 miles on dirt even as he was being pulled up.

24 Feb 2011 2:11 PM
Ted from LA

1.  Casablanca

2.  Casablanca

3.  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (don't get me started on the similarities between that movie and this blog).

4.  Annie Hall

5.  The Maltese Falcon

Pretty Woman glorifies the life of a prostitute in an enigmatic manner.  Ted from LA gives it two thumbs down.

24 Feb 2011 2:19 PM
Ted from LA

Did he really just use the word "enigmatic" on this blog?  That is a warning from the board moderator.

24 Feb 2011 2:22 PM

Lazmannick, you have no idea what you are talking about.  For the last 3 days I have been at the Orioles spring training down here in Sarasota and I can tell you there is NOTHING rigorous going on.  Uncle Mo will have 2 good preps before the Derby after a very successful year as a 2 year old.  All he has to do is get in the gate healthy and he is your Derby winner.  If Big Brown can do it Uncle Mo can too.

24 Feb 2011 2:31 PM
Ted from LA

Worst 5 television shows of all-time:

1.  Friends

2.  The Jersey Shore

3.  Friends

4.  Sarah Palin's Alaska

5.  Friends

24 Feb 2011 2:36 PM


No trainer has ever had his horses run 1-2-3 in the Kentucky Derby. If Todd Pletcher accomplishes this, it would become one of the greatest moments in Derby history.

A few trainers have had their horses run 1-2 in the Derby -- Ben Jones in 1948 had Citation and Coaltown occupy the top two spots at the finish. Herbert Thompson trained Behave Yourself and Black Servant to a 1-2 finish in 1921. And in 1919, H. Guy Bedwell trained Sir Barton and Billy Kelly, who ran 1-2. I believe that they are the only trainers to have finished 1-2 in the Kentucky Derby.

LAZMANNICK & Forbidden Apple;

I agree that Formal Gold does not receive the respect that he deserves. He was a truly special horse and it was quite sad that his career was cut short.


24 Feb 2011 2:38 PM
Forbidden Apple


Again you dodged my post and continue to gloss over everything.

My pick of Soldat is quite simple, he is a rare horse that has speed and stamina. In every single start he has run against quality horses and is battle tested. His trainer is not afraid to run him and his horse is improving with every start. He can run hard on dirt or turf! In his first race at Belmont he showed speed and beat Pluck in that race. In his second start he also showed speed and beat Santiva in that race. His third start here in Saratoga is where he really caughty my eye. He showed speed again and then flew home in 1:41 and 1/5 in his first start over turf. His fourth start in the Pilgrim he was hard held and was learning to rate. He finished six wide and made a huge charge to finish second. In the B.C. race he rated kindly, sat patiently on the fence, and then made his move and beat every horse except for the lawn mower Pluck. If you watch the replay he ran past Pluck in the gallop out. That's 5 races as a juvenile with improvement in every start. In his 3 year old debut he again showed speed, won at Gulfstream at 1 1/8 miles, and dusted the competition while running his eyes out even past the wire. He is currently ranked second on my D.D. list and will be hard to handle on saturday. The only question he has to answer is if he can run on a fast track. The way I see it Soldat can perform at a high level on any surface. He will eat a Gourmet Dinner after he gets his photo taken on saturday. And if he runs well and gets beat by THAS that is nothing to be ashamed of either.

24 Feb 2011 2:40 PM

Secretariat's Kentucky Derby splits were:

25 1/5, 24, 23 4/5, 23 2/5, 23 for the stakes record 1:59 2/5.

Ted from LA - ignore the neanderthals on the blog and rent Moulin Rouge!  Singing, dancing, heart-wrenching romance and drama...not unlike horseracing.

24 Feb 2011 2:43 PM

Hey!  Meg from LA (and I say that with maybe less of a sneer than the Neanderthals on this blog -- you know who you are, Nascar lovers): ain't nothin' wrong with chick flicks (and isn't Casablanca the greatest of all time?)

And where do you classify "Brian's Song"?

Re: horsies: still like Dialled In.  Hoping for something big from Bowman's Causeway this weekend.  Wondering what the heck is happening with Blue Laser and QueensPlateKitten and some of the fillies.

Also looking forward to the Europeans this year: Frankel et al.

24 Feb 2011 2:50 PM

And Ted: when I try to play your Draynay clip, YouTube says "it is not available in your country".


What's wrong with my country?  None of us are rising up in any square and threatening to cut off your oil!

And if a computer like Watson can be confused about whether my city was a "US City" in Jeopardy, how come YouTube is so snarky to us?

24 Feb 2011 2:53 PM


Where have the Orioles finished the past 17 years?

Two preps might be good for a Derby, but not a Triple Crown.

24 Feb 2011 3:21 PM

Ted, Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon and One Flew are all fine, fine movies.  I'll go with Heat, Goodfellas, Reservoir Dogs, The Godfather and I'll throw in The Graduate just to show my soft side.

24 Feb 2011 3:23 PM
Billy's Empire

Queensplate Kitten is going next in a $150,000 turf race at GP, and his goal is the June 26 Queens Plate in Canada. Do not think he is being pointed toward derby.

Ted, do you fancy Glee? Are you a Gleek?

Maybe more of an American Idol fan?

Real Housewives of Hollywood?

24 Feb 2011 3:27 PM
Jason Shandler

Some of my favorites: Good Will Hunting, A Few Good Men, Shawshank Redemption, Bronx Tale, Swingers, and my favorite gambling-related movie, Rounders.

24 Feb 2011 3:30 PM
Billy's Empire

2:24 I have 4 out of your 5 movies on DVD, just not graduate.

Usual Suspects? Casino? Scarface? Definately love a few of Jason's as well, Shawshank is a classic, and Good Will Hunting is great also.

Onto Comedy, Spaceballs, Caddyshack, Blazing Saddles, all good flicks

24 Feb 2011 3:43 PM
Carlos in Cali


Read Jason's UM's piece from Jan.13,2011.

Repole specifically said they didn't want to turn him back in distance for his first start back(Hutchenson),go 9f(FOY) or fly round trip to NY(Gotham).Which leaves the TBDerby as the most logical race.

It's their horse they can do whatever they want,I'm just not buying their reasons,that's all.

FOY: To Honor And Serve should win on Class alone. Soldat has to prove himself on a fast track,recency helps his cause.Gourmet Dinner is just too slow.Sweet Ducky(why did you dump him?)will improve of his Holy Bull 2nd.

I would think Mott would've chosen another Jockey to replace JVelasquez on THS by now,knowing he's the regular rider of UM.Go figure.

24 Feb 2011 3:48 PM

The actual race splits for Secretariat’s Derby were (form an official DRF chart):

• Accumulated race time per quarter:

• 23,2..47.2..1.11.4..1.36.1..1.59.2

• Individual race time splits per quarter:

• 23.2..24..24.2..24.2..23.1

• Secretariat’s lengths behind the leader per quarter:

• 9…9 ½...6...1/2…lead.

• Secretariat’s actual time factored per quarter:

• 25.1..25.4..25.3..24.2..23.1

The actual race splits for Secretariat’s Belmont (from an official DRF chart):

• Accumulated race time per quarter:

• 23.3..46.1..2.09.4..1.34.2..1.59..2.24.

• Individual race time splits per quarter (Secretariat in front at every call:

• 23.3..23.3..23.3..24.2..24.4..25.0.

Please correct this if it is wrong.  I’m in the middle of watching My Best Friend’s Wedding and like meg from LA I tend to get teary eyed and can’t see properly and lose the true meaning of time.

24 Feb 2011 3:51 PM

Raising Arizona

any Fred and Ginger movie

any Hitchcock movie

Roman Holiday


and one of the best scary movies ever made: Wait until Dark

24 Feb 2011 3:59 PM

1.  Odd Man Out--1944?

2.  The Third Man

3.  The Godfather, Patton

4.  Lion in Winter, Ruling Class

5.  South Park--The Movie.

6.  Apocalypse Now

7.  The Road Warrior

8.  Silence of the Lambs--Chianti?

9.  Lolita--James Mason version.

10.  Lawrence of Arabia.

11.  The Time Machine, Forbidden  Planet.  

Jason,  I know you only asked for five and you didn't ask me....but, since there have been 11 Triple Crown winners, and we're looking for a 12th, maybe we have to wait until 2012.  Aztec Rising anyone?

24 Feb 2011 4:16 PM

Police Academy

Police Academy Two

Police Academy Three

Police Adademy Four

Police Adademy Five


The Good the Bad and the Ugly (My man Clint)

The Longest Day (Great cast)

The Hustler (Paul Newman)

The Unforgiven (Clint Again)

Rocky (best fight film ever)

24 Feb 2011 4:23 PM

"What's wrong with my country?  None of us are rising up in any square and threatening to cut off your oil!"  mz

It's the party ice.  We are afraid that you will cut off our supply of party ice.

Favorite 2 boxes of tissue movie--"300."  For the drool.

24 Feb 2011 4:26 PM
Forbidden Apple

Phar Lap is my favorite horse racing movie. And Hot To Trot is another one of my favorite horse racing movies. I just watched The Good the Bad and the Ugly over the weekend. The old western Clint Eastwood movies are incredible.


I forgot to mention that I was a huge Coronado's Quest fan. Soldat has his front running ability for sure. Another factor in my pick is the ultra classy Kiaran McLaughlin.

24 Feb 2011 4:47 PM


I also loved Rounders.  Great cast and at least it seemed on the real side.

24 Feb 2011 4:58 PM
draynays better half

My man's favorite movies:

1) Throw Momma From The Train (think he's tryin to tell me something?)

2) The Good The Bad and The Draynay

3) 101 Wiener Dogs

4) The Stink

5) Star Wars Return of The RA  (personally I thought this sequel was especially dissapointing)

6) Mission Impossible (reminds me of his handicapping abilities)

7) The Godfather ( He swears

future remakes will star Todd Pletcher as Vito Corleone and Steve Asmussen as Luca Brazi)

8) My Best Friends Wedding (new to the list since RA was bred to Curlin)

9) Friday The 13th (starring Jason of course)

10) How The West Was Won (starring America's Horse Zenyatta)  

24 Feb 2011 5:41 PM

My gosh! someone please rescue Ted from LA.  If we don't get him away from the t.v and onto a track soon, then I am going to really get scared.  Terms of Endearment, Ted?  Gee wiz.     Is sodapopkid the only person that thinks Ted from La is really spending to much time away from the tracks?   we got to rescue this man , and I mean soon.  First we got to figure out what damn LA he is in. The state or the city, which is it ted (meg)from LA? The state of Louisiana or the city of Los Angeles or Los Alamitos, something like that.

24 Feb 2011 6:28 PM
Ted from LA


Did you see the movie, "The Cooler?"  Dray (played by William Macy) is the character who slithers up to the hot craps table and reverses the fortune of the players leaning against it.  Mike Repole... take note.  It's not too late to buy him off.  Think of it as the reverse process of selecting a jockey.  Instead of paying someone to take the mount, you're paying someone to get off the horse.

24 Feb 2011 6:36 PM
Carlos in Cali


Last American Virgin

Mad Max

Apocalypse Now

Kill Bill

The Exorcist


Hamburger Hill

Up In Smoke

Platoon &

Pulp Fiction

In no such order.All of these will stimulate your mind,  :}

24 Feb 2011 6:48 PM

Soldat? Maybe but only if things come up wet. He has yet to win anything on dry ground.  Go with Gourmet Dinner if you want to cash your win ticket.  Soldat likes coming in 2nd. Gourmet Dinner has won more races than any horse in the field.  I expect that trend to continue.

24 Feb 2011 6:52 PM
Carlos in Cali


I would've sworn you'd list:

The 'Friday' trilogies

Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure

Beef: Hip-Hop something

Shaft and

The Black Swan.  j/k...

24 Feb 2011 6:57 PM

Lazmannik, the main problem I have with your Secretariat Derby splits is, if you add them up, his final time was 2:04.1.  Except it wasn't.  

I downloaded the chart from the Kentucky Derby website and did the math and I get splits for Big Red of 25 1/5; 24; 23 4/5; 23 2/5; 23.  If you add those up, you get 1:59 2/5.  

The way I figure it, Secretariat's individual split times were 25 1/5; 49 1/5; 1:13, 1:36 2/5; 1:59 2/5.  

I think where you're going wrong is that you're taking the leader's individual split time and subtracting the lengths behind.  But that only works in the first quarter.  After that, he's ALREADY nine lengths back, and only lost a half-length on the leader during the second quarter, so he ran it, at most, only a fifth slower than the leader did.  And the leader ran it in 24 flat.  

I liked your analysis, just not your math!  

24 Feb 2011 7:11 PM
Mike Relva


What about the movie,21?

24 Feb 2011 7:25 PM

I would think Mott would've chosen another Jockey to replace JVelasquez on THS by now,knowing he's the regular rider of UM.Go figure.

Carlos in Cali 24 Feb 2011 3:48 PM

Was reading this. Let’s put it this way, hopefully I get to choose between them for the Derby, because that would mean they both come back strong and make it there,” Velazquez said.

24 Feb 2011 7:45 PM
Ted from LA

sodapopkid, None of the above.  Ted from LA made up the name.  I'm completely full of it.  I haven't seen a movie (other than Secretariat) since President Clinton was having wee wee problems in the White House.  I'm just killing time until April.  And then I am going wee wee wee all the way down to Louisville.

24 Feb 2011 7:47 PM

Top 5 movies:


Suddenly Last Summer

Sunset Boulevard

The Letter

Shanghai Express (Marlene Dietrich)

24 Feb 2011 8:12 PM

Best movies ?  That's easy.  Godfather 1 and 2, To Kill a Mocking bird, Sgt. York, and The Quiet Man.

24 Feb 2011 9:17 PM
Ted from LA

In that case, Mike Repole needs to make you an offer you can't refuse.

24 Feb 2011 9:43 PM

Think goodness, Ted from LA has came out of the t.v room.  You had me scared there Ted.  I thought we were going to have to get Jason and the posse to go rescue you. Glad them damn movies haven't gotten the best of you.    I thought to myself, 'darn, how much of his feminine side is he trying to touch base with'? lol....

Dray's better half,  I absolutely loved your analogy. your 5:41pm post, that is.....well said...

Ok, Ted, now that we know you are 'just killing time' watching those movies, Tell us dear TEd,  what are you going to watch tonite?

Ted, I agree with Jason,  You need to watch the 'Shawshank Redemption' if you havent already,  great movie.....If you can tolerate 'Terms, Beaches,Titanic,  than Shawshank won't will be much easier on your 'feminine' will more than likely be better for your 'hairy side' (man side that is).lol...

24 Feb 2011 10:37 PM


I think what you’re doing is adding his lengths behind the leader, which comes out to 24 or 4.4.....(In this case we’re dealing in 5ths, not 10ths, which would convert 24 to 4.4)..... When you add this t 1.59.2 you get 2.04.4

• The individual race time splits per quarter (the decimals are 5ths not 10ths):

• 23.2..24..24.2..24.2..23.1

These add up to 1.59.2 + 4.4 = 2.04.4

24 Feb 2011 10:44 PM


In re-reading your post, you are correct.  That would also make a difference of 3/5ths I believe in the 3rd quarter, hence, every quarter was faster than the preceding one.  Good stuff and thanks.

24 Feb 2011 10:51 PM
Matthew W

Shane/Philadelphia Story/Fight Club/Affliction/Perfume and I'm putting a tenner on King's Speech to win this Sat....

24 Feb 2011 11:09 PM

I forgot:

El Amor Brujo


Touch of Evil


Diabolique (Simone Signoret)

24 Feb 2011 11:23 PM

Hey Laz:

1. Can you recalculate your numbers on baseSham instead of baseSecretariat?

2.  Can you explain why a horse has to carry stones in the Darby?

3.  How do you convert furlongs into kilometers?

and finally

4.  How much chuck can a woodchuck actually chuck (presuming no wind, and on dirt, not poly)?

25 Feb 2011 12:52 AM
Billy's Empire

Carlos in Cali, Now that did actually make me laugh out loud. If we are going that route,

Boys in the Hood (Ricccckky)

Meance to Society(What you say bout my momma?)

Juice(You got the Juice now Q)

American Gangster

Kings of New York ("If there's a nickle bag sold in the park, I want in": Frank White baby)

New Jack City(Pookie)

I could go on and on.

25 Feb 2011 8:58 AM
Billy's Empire

Sleepless in Seattle?

25 Feb 2011 8:59 AM

It seems like many folks think Gourmet Dinner or Soldat takes the Fountain of Youth.  I think I'll go with To Honor and Serve, a horse I think many people are discounting because it is his first start back.  I think this horse is brilliant and will romp.

25 Feb 2011 9:09 AM
Billy's Empire

I don't know if Mott has THS 100% cranked in this one yet. Mott wants to get a race in him and let him peak at Derby, so I have to play against. I know he is good colt, and would not want to race him next out in the Florida Derby, but he may be short in his first back. Mott is not that type of trainer.

With that said, I would use him on the bottom of exoctics, going for the win with Casper's Touch, Soldat, or Bowman's Causeway.

You could probably single Dancinginherdreams in a p4, as she is 5/2 morning line and get a nice payoff.

25 Feb 2011 9:51 AM

Whats up with folks???  

Best movies:


The Great Escape



To Kill A Mockingbird

Anatomy of a Murder

Biggest tear jerkers:

Back Street (Susan Hayward)

An Affair to Remember


Breakfast at Tiffanys

Steel Magnolias

Best horse racing movies:

Phar Lap

Casey's Shadow

Best current tv series...Southland

Best horse in the FOY: THAS

25 Feb 2011 9:54 AM

Billy- what about Cleopatra Jones?

25 Feb 2011 10:40 AM

I agree, Billy with your assessment of THAS.  I don't think Mr Mott needs to win this race and just wants a good race out of him.  But then we get to hear Dray say what a bum THAS is.

25 Feb 2011 10:42 AM
Carlos in Cali

Agree that THS will not be fully cranked for this one but,he's been posting pretty damn good workouts @ deep Payson Park.Class-wise he towers over these and that alone should get him to the wire 1st.Soldat for 2nd and the long winded longshot Racing Aptitude battles Casper's Touch for 3rd.

25 Feb 2011 12:09 PM


Certainly, right after you explain what smart meters and the HST are, and assuming that you live in Ontario, what is the Retirement Debt on your hydro bill all about and why would the government improve another hydro rate increase.

25 Feb 2011 12:24 PM
Karen in Texas

Not saying these are best, 'cause this is so subjective, but five of my favorite movies are: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; To Kill a Mockingbird; Some Like It Hot (comedy); and for great individual performances, Rain Man and A Beautiful Mind.

25 Feb 2011 12:37 PM
Billy's Empire

Carlos, he has only had 6 works, and two of them were of the 104 variety, basically a timed jog for a horse of his caliber. Mott is even a little skeptical about his chances first out, but he will only get better and Derby will be 3rd start off a layoff. The light just comes on in these 3yo 3rd back. It is  something I always look at when capping races. Recency is a big factor for me.

25 Feb 2011 1:25 PM
mickey 1957

berthren won't be going to the florida derby,how about the arkansas derby,champion's race in arkansas......the big mo is ducking fact big mo is ducking everyone.please go read my comments at the end of this weeks derby dozen or should I say haskins top 25.

25 Feb 2011 1:29 PM
mickey 1957

one of the best movies ever made was (the last picture show)1971.

25 Feb 2011 1:32 PM

Laz: we both got trouble.

Let's give up.

Where you wanna go that doesn't have an extradition treaty?

25 Feb 2011 1:42 PM

Sorry, Ted.  I forgot to include you in the escape scenario with me and Laz.

Does LA constitute a separate country for the purposes of witness protection?

Thought if anyone would know, you would.

25 Feb 2011 1:47 PM
Ted from LA

Fatal Attraction was my favorite romantic comedy.

My Road to the Roses stable has been selected.  I did it over 5 hours ago and to my knowledge none of them have been injured yet.  This is a record for Ted from LA.

25 Feb 2011 1:48 PM


Sorry, but my schedule is full.....I'm watching My Best Friend's Wedding again.  There’s a marathon on TV.  It’s on all day to day, all night tonight, and all day tomorrow.  I just hope I can force myself away so I can catch the Fountain of Youth tomorrow afternoon.

25 Feb 2011 2:08 PM


Secretariat's fractions in the Kentucky Derby were indeed remarkable! Along similar lines, the fractions that the great Dr. Fager ran in the 1968 Washington Park Handicap were truly astonishing as well. He carried 134 pounds that day, and turned in a performance for the ages.

Somewhat surprising, he did not go straight to the lead on that occasion. Rather, he was about three lengths off the lead after the front-runners ran an opening quarter mile in an unremarkable :22 4/5. Therefore, Dr. Fager ran the opening quarter mile in :23 2/5.

However, Dr. Fager made his run to take the lead after that. He was just a head off of the lead as the field passed the half-mile pole. The half-mile fraction was :44 flat.

Therefore, Dr. Fager had run his second quarter mile in :20 3/5.

He coasted home after that. He ran three-quarters of a mile in 1:07 3/5 and hit the wire in 1:32 1/5, world record time. Although other horses have turned in faster miles on turf, no horse has ever run a faster dirt mile.

So Dr. Fager's fractions were. . .

23 2/5   20 3/5   23 3/5   24 3/5

What was most amazing was that he was not urged at all in the stretch. Not even hand urged! His jockey never moved. Had he urged Dr. Fager at all in the stretch, there is no doubt in my mind that he could have run 1:31 and change. And this while carrying 134 pounds!


25 Feb 2011 2:15 PM
Mike Relva

I believe THAS will win tomorrow.

25 Feb 2011 9:20 PM

I forgot about Touch of Evil.  Loved the long opening shot.

Kellerman--Dr. Fager was amazing.  My father always talked about him.

26 Feb 2011 2:12 AM

Keelerman, I'm a huge Dr. Fager fan!  He did some remarkable things.  If he hadn't been a sucker for a rabbit, he might have been the perfect racehorse.  Thanks for the breakdown of his record-setting mile.  He was amazing.  

26 Feb 2011 1:41 PM

Cleone & Aluminaut;

I'm glad you enjoyed reading my thoughts! Dr. Fager sits atop my list of the best Thoroughbreds in the history of American horse racing; right above Secretariat and Kelso. Cleone, I agree wholeheartedly that if not for Damascus's rabbit Hedevar, Dr. Fager would have without a doubt won the 1968 Brooklyn Handicap and perhaps even the 1967 Woodward. And Hedevar wasn't any ordinary rabbit! He once ran six furlongs in 1:06 4/5 at Arlington Park!

But perhaps even more remarkable than Dr. Fager's world record mile was his victory in the 1968 United Nations Handicap on turf. He had never run on turf before, but was forced to try it for the first time while carrying 134 pounds. A very tough field of runners lined up to face him, including Kentucky Derby runner-up Advocator and future Horse of the Year Fort Marcy.

Dr. Fager was never confortable over the turf course, going very wide on the turns and never really settling into stride. On the final turn he went very wide and allowed Advocator to sneak through on his inside. Advocator then took the lead and appeared to be on his way to victory. But Dr. Fager courageously came back at him stuck his head back in front.

But Advocator wasn't to be denied, and re-passed Dr. Fager to open up a half-length lead. But once again Dr. Fager wasn't to be denied, charging one final time. He stuck his neck in front. Advocator came back once more, but Dr. Fager simply would not let him pass, and the great champion crossed the wire a neck in front, running the mile and three sixteenths race in 1:55 1/5.

In my opinion, it was this race that truly defined his greatness; more so than his numerous daylight victories. He was handsomely rewarded for his 1968 campaign -- he was voted Horse of the Year, Champion Handicap Horse, Champion Sprinter, and Champion Grass Horse. Imagine a horse today winning those four awards!


26 Feb 2011 4:39 PM

Way to go Keelerman!

26 Feb 2011 6:02 PM

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