BloodHorse.com

Maclean's Music Will be Heard

217 Comments

The Factor was the talk of the racing nation after dazzling in the Rebel Stakes on Saturday, but only minutes before a 3-year-old that many of us never heard of burst onto the scene loud and clear. It was Maclean's Music, who broke his maiden by 7 1/4 lengths at Santa Anita while running six furlongs in 1:07.44 under a hand ride. If you haven't seen the race yet, check it out.

Maclean's Music certainly caught all of our attention with his monstrous win, but on Monday when it was learned that he had earned a 114 Beyer, the highest score ever recorded for a first out starter, his buzz became even louder. The colt is by Distorted Humor, out of the Unbridled's Song mare Forest Music. He is a homebred of Jess Jackson's Stonestret Stables and is trained by Steve Asmussen.

On Tuesday, Asmussen talked a little bit about MaClean's Music but in typical fashion offered no clues about what might be next. It was evident, however, how much he thinks of his new star.

"Special might not even be the word to describe him," Asmussen said. "We're very excited and will manage him very carefully. He had shins late last summer and we had to wait on him from a timing standpoint. He had plenty of bottom under him going into this start and we will wait until he is just as ready for his next start."

Maclean's Music got started a little too late for the Kentucky Derby, but if he runs big in his next race the Preakness may not be completely out of the question. Asmussen did not squash those sentiments when asked.

"If everything goes well we'll breeze him back next Monday and then the discussions (about where he will run next) will begin."

Asmussen does have two horses on the Derby trail as of now. One of them is Astrology, who will make his season debut on Sunday in the Sunland Derby. Astrology won the Iroquois and ran second to in the Kentucky Jockey Club as a juvenile. Asmussen admitted that Astrology is behind the eight ball as far as the Derby goes.

"The original plan was to run in the San Felipe but he was under the weather and not himself. He had a setback that cost us a couple of weeks. The Sunland Derby is an ambitious start to his 3-year-old season but I feel very good about his health and conditioning. He's a beautiful individual. It's a very tall order to run a mile and an eighth off the bench but he will answer a lot of our questions."

Obviously, if Astrology wins the Sunland Derby or runs strong in defeat, the Kentucky Derby is still on the table. But at this point, the feeling I get is that if he doesn't rebound with a huge effort that Asmussen will back off and look forward to an ambitious summer campaign for him.

At this point, Asmussen's best Derby hope appears to be Silver Medallion, who was recently purchased and will point for the Santa Anita Derby. Silver Medallion won the Eddie Logan Stakes on turf in December and won the El Camino Real Derby at Golden Gate in his 3-year-old debut on Feb. 12. Asmussen is very pleased with his training since then and when asked to compare his Derby hopes to those of Astrology he was pretty transparent.

"Astrology is behind schedule but has the opportunity to prove what Silver Medallion already has proved."

Asmussen also has a pair of longshots in this weekend's Louisiana Derby, maiden winner Nehro and Le Mans, who ran fourth in both of his maiden starts. Ambitious spot for both colts but I think it's a wide-open race. I will have an analysis of the Louisiana Derby later this week but I know I wont be taking the chalk.

Finally, Asmussen made it very clear that he wasn't happy with the ride that Garrett Gomez gave his other top 3-year-old, Albergatti, in the San Felipe when he tired to finish ninth after contesting a ridiculous pace.

"I was very disappointed in the trip he got," Asmussen said. "Now we will have to regroup and try to get his confidence back to where it needs to be. I was hoping for a better chance with him."

217 Comments:

Jason,

This colt looks like a sprinter to me.  I prefer Bind as a late developing "special one".  McLean's Music's pedigree does not shout stamina.  He may be no more than a classy sprinter/miler type.  Evenso he'll have to prove himself against the likes of established hot-steppers Uncle Mo, The Factor and Flashpoint etc.

In terms of what is going on with Astrology, are you surprised?  I'm interested to hear from any member of the AP Indy/Bernardini crew about how high their confidence is about winning the Derby this year.  Will they ever learn?    

Ranagulzion 22 Mar 2011 3:14 PM

I'm curious to how he received a 114? The factor broke his maiden by more lengths and in a track record time, in fact 2/5 of a second faster than maclean's music and gets a 108? It seems too fluky for me to believe.  I'll wait until his next race before I jump on his bandwagon.

josh 22 Mar 2011 3:36 PM

I love this colt, Good to see Steve A. in CA using Mike S. Its funny we were just wondering what Jess had cooking and then we saw this colt run. Nice...

Denman said "Scintillating" and it was.  I can see taking it easy and being patient with this colt, His kin indicate brilliance but fragility to some extent - But WHAT an impressive maiden win - is it the highest 3 year old Beyer this year Jason?

The kids say he looks like he should get 2 turn classic distance just based on his physique – the little horse judgers are always so opinionated…

Zen's Auntie 22 Mar 2011 3:52 PM

The win was impressive, no doubt. But 114 is a bit high. Hopefully he didn't just peak in his first race because it's hard to imagine his figures improving after this. I guess we'll see.

stevebiscuit 22 Mar 2011 3:55 PM

The figures seem all out of whack. So the second, third, and fourth place finishers all get mid to high nineties on the beyer numbers. Hummm?

derbylock 22 Mar 2011 3:55 PM

Another late to get started California 3 yr old better than Cal Nation.

jersey jim 22 Mar 2011 4:02 PM

Beyers are just too inflated for me nowadays. Seems like every weekend we see sprinters running 105-plus, and they are usually at Gulfstream or Santa Anita. I made the switch to Bris numbers a couple of years ago. I find them more believable.

Jason Shandler 22 Mar 2011 4:04 PM

Rana.. Bind has my interest too (I hope she gets to keep the mount). and Left both nice later developing colts in the "right" hands

Zen's Auntie 22 Mar 2011 4:14 PM

JASON

I admire Mr. Fantasy and know at one point you did also. His problems were health issues. Have you heard any news about him lately?

Mike Relva 22 Mar 2011 4:15 PM

What was Brock's beyer's number?  LOL...

Trebloc 22 Mar 2011 4:18 PM

Mike: Mr. Fantasy had one breeze after winning an optional claimer in September but has not been back to the track since. Doesnt look good.

Jason Shandler 22 Mar 2011 4:18 PM

I see this horse's name and all I think about is Die Hard!

Billy's Empire 22 Mar 2011 4:39 PM

Rana/Zen's Auntie,

I agree about Bind. Can't wait to see him at Keeneland. I think he'll be the one to give Uncle Mo a tussle. And with the way Rosie's been riding, I think she's got that mount on lockdown. She's on a roll.

Jason, I'm having a hard time believing that a horse that's starting as late as Maclean's Music would be able to make the Preakness. If the horse can't make it to the Derby b/c he's doesn't have enough bottom on him or doesn't have enough earnings, what's another 2 weeks going to do for the horse? Chances are other horses will filter him out due to graded earnings.

The Rock 22 Mar 2011 4:50 PM

Beyers are just one opinion and I really dont understand them very much, What numbers have workouts figured in?

I do like the numbers BRIS PP's gives you they seem more relevent but I have no Idea how they are figgured either. I dont have access to it so can you tell me what did Bris has to say about Mac Music's race, figure wise?

Zen's Auntie 22 Mar 2011 4:54 PM

That Beyer is out of whack.  I don't trust it.  I agree that The Factor ran a better race when he broke his maiden and he got a paltry number in comparison.  I was at the race Mclean's Music ran.  It was not all that.  He won.  Nicely, but nothing really out of the ordinary.

CHoffman 22 Mar 2011 4:59 PM

Gotta love that FG's card on Saturday. 14 races with the majority of them containing 8 or more horses all of quality. A bettor's type of card.

The Rock 22 Mar 2011 5:08 PM

Who here has BIEBER FEVER???!!!!!!  Yes!!!!!  Ted from LA does!!

Ted from LA 22 Mar 2011 5:11 PM

Ooops.  I meant DERBY FEVER.

Ted from LA 22 Mar 2011 5:12 PM

I was not aware that this article was about the sprinter The Factor. I hope and pray The Factor doesn't bomb in his Derby tune up because I would LOVE all the California money wasted on this sprinter.  MM to the Preakness ?  Give me a break.  The horse may be ready for the big boys come Haskell time.  Geez.

Draynay 22 Mar 2011 5:25 PM

Nice colt and a nice race, but to me another Beyer mystery.  In reality, the be all and end all should be class.  Lots of horses can run fast and the way Beyer numbers are assigned there just seems to be too many inconsistencies to make accurate comparisons.  Don't forget Hilda's Passion breaking the 7F mark at GP on Saturday and in doing so outrunning the 6F mark on a track that was definitely not playing as fast as it can and getting a paltry 108.  Claimers break track records, but don’t win graded stakes races.  Uncle Mo and the other top 3 year olds haven’t come close to this Beyer (exception Bind).  Does this mean that Maclean’s Music is better?  I don’t think so.  When it comes to time, give me splits.  They are far more meaningful especially since the splits in this race were progressively slower, 21.24…22.24…23.96.

LAZMANNICK 22 Mar 2011 5:27 PM

 Copied from an entry on S. Haskins’ -3/14/11 Blog:

  “Although I said there isn’t really much else left to talk about here after this weekend regarding the 3 year old bunch, well re the Derby gate trail anyway, other than [“The Factor]” and that race, well that’s not 100% true because I have one other 3 year old never known of to me before anyway, who ran in and won a maiden race that caught my eye.

  “Although, and someone might want to start keeping track of this lil newbie besides me… a Steve Asmussen; trained, $900K ’09 Keenlander ; who just (now yesterday) burst onto the scene in his maiden -3/19/11 win, being his 6 fur. MAIDEN win at :21.24 ; :43.48 ; :55.05 ; 1:07.44 ; !!!! {later assigned a 114 Beyer] Impressive?!!! YES, being only a ½ second off “The Factor’s” track record time of 1:06.98 ; but that’s not so much why or being that of his wow price tag that otherwise catches my eye and seemingly makes him feel so impressive to me. Then ‘why’? what is it? you ask, …well, it is in his breeding!

  “[[Hmmm $900K plus expenses (INSURANCE) makes for an expensive toy to have as a hobby you might say, especially where I am thinking that it’s a little late now for someone to teach a horse like this ‘to rate’ and then throw him into the Kty. Derby off of only 2 starts,--(that would shatter records).--yet, he is not even an ‘Early Derby Nominee’, making him for me to this point thusly off my radar, so that thought is just me thinking out loud…So, ok, we aren’t likely to see him UNTIL LATER DOWN THE ROAD somewhere this year.]]. BUT, from me, KEEP AN EYE ON THIS ONE!!!!…

  “Although he only has “Raise a Native”-“Northern Dancer”-“Nasrullah” , “Ribot”, and “Turn To” sprinkled through his SIRE’s LINES, impressive enough, being from “Distorted Humor”,--not bad,--his dam lineage is even way more impressive!!! Actually his price tag of $900K seems a little bit low for this one when considering his dam lineage alone. His dam is “Forest Music” by “Unbridles Song”. But, it is in her dam’s and dam’s dam’s and their lines in his breeding that any favored stallion to his dam makes the price tag of $900K maybe worth the price …And why do I bring all of this to yours’, my fellow bloggers’, attentions?… Well, it is because on his dam side,--as one might note with a little lineage breeding investigation,--that it will show that he through she is “triple bred to the ‘big heart’ “X factor” gene’ strains!! , three of them? in fact!!…and WOW, where one alone would be impressive enough, and that all so, via his and her lineage traces to “Cosquillo”, “Mah Mahal”, & “Brushup”, …that’s all !!! …and that is why!!!}}

  “P.S. OK, so who was that horse that I apparently failed to mention the name of in my weekend recap, well his name is "Maclean's Music". Being as how I was so excited in finding him, I see that I failed to mention exactly who he was and who I was referring to, that being if you on your own didn't discover who I was referring to. Sorry, my apologies. "Z"

zarvona 22 Mar 2011 5:30 PM

As the skepticism builds over Beyer Speed Figures, the numbers themselves are getting sensationally high. ... Hmmm. Am I right about them really being a marketing tool? Who cares what "number" he got. The performance speaks for itself. That said, let's see another race, and another, and another. ...

JerseyTom 22 Mar 2011 5:33 PM

JASON

Thanks for the latest update. It's a shame.

Mike Relva 22 Mar 2011 6:00 PM

I totally agree with Asmussen about the ride GoGo gave Albergatti. What in the world he was thinking gunning that horse into those fractions I have no idea. I really was super impressed by Maclean's Music, but Asmussen also has another impressive Stonestreet colt in Wilburn. He looks to me like he could go maybe a little longer than the previous just in running style, but who knows. Mike Smith was on both to break their maidens first time out. I hope he retains the mounts even if he has to follow them aroung the country. Asmussen surely will be packing his barn up after this SA meet ends.

WILD HORSES 22 Mar 2011 6:03 PM

Just wanted to let the Rock know Bind is going in the 3rd or 4th race at FG this Sat. Very excited about this horse too!!!

WILD HORSES 22 Mar 2011 6:11 PM

Is there any way to contact Mr Asumussen? I love Wilburn and I wonder if they are high on him as well - and where they plan to run him next. Thanks!

Betsy 22 Mar 2011 6:22 PM

Beyers are about as useful in racing as Nicks are in breeding. There simply can't be a single figure that can accurately depict a horse's performance in a race. They are good to use as a last resort but other than that I'd take them with a grain of salt.

stevebiscuit 22 Mar 2011 6:25 PM

I don't think graded earnings factor into Preakness starters.  That said, if "Music" couldn't be ready for the Derby (and clearly he can't) then it stands to reason he won't be ready for the Preakness either.  It sure was an impressive first start though.  I see comments that the 114 Beyer is questionable, particularly when compared to The Factor's race where he earned a 108.  Could it be all times on the card were faster the day The Factor ran?  It would be interesting to see if the other race times for the day of "Music's" debut were slower or about equal to the times of other races when The Factor earned his 108.

ROBINM 22 Mar 2011 6:32 PM

Not sure if this posted or not...........I'm disappointed that Asmussen didn't mention Wilburn, who looked great winning his debut 2 weeks ago. Is he high on him?  Is there a way to contact him? Thanks!

Betsy 22 Mar 2011 6:33 PM

bind isn't on the derby trail. albert stall, jr. stated that he wasn't really on it to begin with, the one horse that might possibly carry the silks of claiborne or the ownersip is left, provided he runs a big race in the LA derby on saturday, since left must have proven himself for his owners to even begin thinking that he could be on the tc trail let alone as a ky derby hopeful.

anna 22 Mar 2011 6:35 PM

When The Factor broke his maiden - his raw Beyer 151 when he went 1:06.98 and then it was adjusted down to 108.

I'd be very interested in McLean's Music's Thoro-Graph and Ragozin numbers. I'm sure we'll see a column soon on how they came to 114.

Zenyatta John 22 Mar 2011 7:07 PM

I go on the Thoro-graph site alot and actually find they are pretty consistent.  They always have a race of the week that is analyzed and they usually pick the race because of certain things that can be learned from it, not just the most popular stakes race that week.  I seem to find there are issues woth all speed figures but I look at Thoro-graph the most.  

Footlick 22 Mar 2011 7:08 PM

Jason,

I agree 100 % with your assessment of the Beyer figures. Andy is a talented handicapper, but I never could figure out the way those figures are calculated. There doesn't appear to be consistency.

I have always used the DRF speed figures and track variant. Tell me what is more impressive, a speed figure of 90 at a mile and a quarter or a 90 at 6 furlongs?  

The answer is obvious.    

Likewise  the recent figures at Santa Anita since the reopening as a dirt surface are very suspect. Andy is throwing around 100+ figures like a kid in a candy store.

Old Timer 22 Mar 2011 7:45 PM

As a youngins I learned how to read the DRF and handicap the ponies pre-beyers era and to this day I don't use them.It's just one man's opinion and I trust my style of handicapping better...pace/class/workouts. Old School!!

Beyers,Shmeyers.

Carlos in Cali 22 Mar 2011 7:47 PM

DRAYNAY

You do what you ALWAYS do so well-when your pick is wrong,turn it around as if your right. Nice.

Mike Relva 22 Mar 2011 8:02 PM

Betsy: Yes Asmussen and Co. were very impressed by Wilburn also. At first I heard Gary Stevens say they might try Wilburn in the Sunland Derby next, but they backed off of that idea not wanting to rush him. They have Astrology pointed to that race now. Lets hope they take Wilburn and MM through their conditions and give them a chance to get some good experience and mature a little. But isn't Wilburn beautiful, all 17H of him.

WILD HORSES 22 Mar 2011 8:25 PM

It will be interesting to see how Gomez does without Anderson.

snow 22 Mar 2011 9:07 PM

Mr. Shandler, the first sign that you're getting old is when you start using the word "nowadays".  

Sorry, i couldn't resist. ;-}

Kris 22 Mar 2011 9:07 PM

Zarvona,

Hold your horses my friend. MacLean's Music looked good but his performance was not what I'd call "jaw-dropping" inspite of Beyer's figures and certainly not after seeing the debuts of Uncle Mo, Bind, Runflatout and the second appearances of The Factor and Flashpoint.  Your reference to his $900K price tag as a rather expensive toy was quite witty, however it may reflect what the connections see in him as a future stallion.  

In my estimation this colt's speed is inherited from his broodmare sire Unbridled's Song and by now we should all beware of the brittleness in the legs that Unbridled's Song passes on with the speed to his offspring (could his belated debut have anything to do with fears/issues of this nature?).  It is true that his tail female family has quality (inbreeding to La Troinne) but the stamina influences appear to be relatively far back compared to how close up the strong speed influences (Gone West and Unbridled's Song) are along with the 'weak link in the pedigree' Damascus (great racer but very weak stallion IMO).

It will be interesting to see how this one develops but for the moment I see him as a sprinter/miler that definitely could make a good stallion prospect down the road.  His resume has indeed opened with a bang.

Ranagulzion 22 Mar 2011 9:14 PM

The other sign that Im getting old is when people start calling me Mr. Shandler.

Jason Shandler 22 Mar 2011 9:21 PM

Nowadays, guys like Mr. Shandler don't even realize when they are getting old.  You'd think the fivehead would be a hint.  The fact that he dresses like my grandpa on that horseracing show of his should be another hint.  I'll tell you one thing, you whippersnappers should listen to him more... he knows his horses.

Ted from LA 22 Mar 2011 9:50 PM

JASON

You aren't getting old,am a little older than you and you can bet the house I have far more good days than bad ones. There's alot left in the tank.

Mike Relva 22 Mar 2011 10:52 PM

The 114 Beyer caught me by surprise.  My first calculations was in the 100-103 range.

Santa Anita has been playing consistently fast.  Euroears and Amazombie/Apriority earned figs of 107 and 103 respectively for times of about 1:07 and 1.  Runflatout received a 98 for his eefot.

For whatever reason, Team Beyer concluded that Santa Anita was about 3-5 lengths slower on Saturday than it had been for just about any other day this meet.  That's the only way to explain how Maclean got a 114 although his time was slower than those of others.

Is the conclusion that Santa Anita was slower Saturday valid?  Well, caliming male horses ran in the 1:09-1:10, suggesting the track could have been slower.  But in the race directly after Maclean's maiden, allowance mares ran a 6 furlong split of 1:08 and 2 before finishing 6.5 furlongs in 1:14 and 3.

The time of the mare allowance race suggests Santa Anita wasn't that slow afterall.  However, the winner of that allowance for mares received a 98 Beyer, indicating that Team Beyer concluded that her time was also strong for the "slow" track.

I'm not sure I buy it.

By the way, the Beyers have only been high at Santa Anita for one turn races not two turns.  The highest 2-turn fig at Santa Anita this meet is Misremembered's 105 for a mile race.  The highest fig for a race over a mile is Twirling Candy's 102 in the Strub.  I believe that's the only fig over a 100 for a race 8.5 furlongs+.

At sprints, speed is dominating, even with fractions of 43 and 44 for the half.  Jockeys have adjusted, thus horses known to be fast are being pushed to fly early in races, with the jockeys having a good belief the horses will hold up thru the stretch.  When you have fast horses being asked to run all-out on a track kind to speed, you're going to see fast final times and big Beyers.  

On the other hand, on synthetic, where early speed is often punished, jockeys adjusted their style to conserve their horses early, resulting in slow early paces and subsequently slow final times.

What's interesting is that speed hasn't been holding as well at the current Santa Anita meet around 2 turns.  We saw this in the Santa Margarita.  Both Always A Princess and Switch were ridden agressively, with the jockeys perhaps believing that the track could carry them in the stretch.  However, after a mile in 1:33 and 4, the two mares tired noticeably, and the late-running Miss Match got up in the final strides.  The same was true for the San Felipe when the pacesetters were simply unable to maintain their quick early pace.

For as many 1:07 and 1:08 times for 6 furlongs, we're not seeing alot of 1:40 for 8.5 furlongs or 1:46 for 9 furlongs.

GunBow 22 Mar 2011 10:55 PM

Mr. Shandler, it is gratifying to see that you don't think Beyer figures are all they were cracked up to be. Ted from LA, leave Jason alone, he dresses just fine. His videos are very informative. Bieber Fever? Uh, no, not even if I was his age. He looks like he's in kindergarden. What does it say about society when we have gone from the Beatles and the Stones to Justin Bieber? Don't answer.

Paula Higgins 22 Mar 2011 10:56 PM

Calling somebody Mr is a sign of respect.  At least that is how I was raised.

Footlick 22 Mar 2011 11:03 PM

macleans music look impressive but I was shocked by the 114 beyer figure. I do use beyer figures but I also use bris figures as well. I love to watch the races to see small things that others do not see in a race. The more information I more secure I am on my selections. Thats how I deal with it.

I am excited we are down to the races prior to the derby

10 Louisana Derby

09 Sunland Derby

08 Spiral Stakes

07 Florida Derby

06 Santa Anita Derby

05 Illinois Derby

04 Wood Memorial

03 Arkansas Derby

02 Blue Grass Stakes

01 Lexington

The homestretch is here!

RJPPDP 22 Mar 2011 11:27 PM

Wild Horses, thank you! I'm very glad they decided not to rush him........that decision will pay off down the line, I believe. He's huge - and gorgeous.

It appears as if Asmussen/Jess Jackson have several awfully talented horses......I figure MacLean's Music has to be a sprinter, so I was surprised to read that they're considering him for the Preakness. I hope both horses stay healthy for they appear to have tremendous potential.

Betsy 22 Mar 2011 11:42 PM

I don't think MM met his reserve at auction, so JJ didn't buy him, he bred him...

Kris, that was cute...but you know you really are old when you preface your statements with "back in my day...!"

One thing about this year's group of 3 year-olds, they seem pretty talented & it will be a lot of fun to watch them hook up in the Derby.

Rachel 23 Mar 2011 5:21 AM

The Rock,

“I'm having a hard time believing that a horse that's starting as late as Maclean's Music would be able to make the Preakness”

Lammtara made one winning start as a 2YR and never started again until 302 days later in the prestigious 12F Epsom Derby. He won in a NTR. A fit talented thoroughbred does not necessary need a lot of foundation to win a tough race. There is approximately 59 days to the Preakness, if Maclean's Music is an exceptional talent, he can be intensively trained to be very competitive.

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 6:20 AM

Old Man Shandler, Give us those Brie numbers you were speaking of. When you see them post them on here so we will know what they gave Maclean for Saturday.  Did you hear me old man? lol

sodapopkid 23 Mar 2011 6:37 AM

It seems to me that all things being equal, if a horse with top connections wins the Beyer is inflated an additional 5 to 10 points.

Mikem 23 Mar 2011 7:59 AM

Carlos, I started 'capping in 1970 and I don't care much for speed figures either, but I do know how they are supposed to be calculated.

You keep track over time of the winning times for races at every distance and every class level at a particular track. Then you find the average of these times; in theory, the very slow and very fast times will cancel each other out, leaving you with a 'par' time (translated into a 'figure') for each age, condition, distance,etc. at that track. The winning time for a new race is compared to the par time to get the speed figure.

Unfortunately, when a new surface is put in, like at Gulfstream in 2005(?), then at Keeneland, Turfway, Woodbine, and the Cal tracks, all that historical data goes out the window. Your pars are no good anymore, so you have to start from scratch again. I do not know how the speed figure people manage to come up with figures for tracks for which no pars yet exist. 'Proprietary information', I'm told. 'Fudging the numbers' is what I think.

Pedigree Ann 23 Mar 2011 8:45 AM

Old Timer:

You wrote:

"I have always used the DRF speed figures and track variant".

It nice to know I am not alone. I could never understand why anyone would use someone else's "interpretation" of the speed of a race when there is a scientific measurement available.

To me Beyer Speed Figures are an unscientific interpretation of scientifically compiled data. I rely on the data as compiled.

JerseyBoy 23 Mar 2011 10:11 AM

Bris numbers are much more in depth. Early pace, late pace, speed, prime power, back class and current class.... research the Prime Power number and how they formulate the number. There are scenarios where gaps in prime power can prove very beneficial to the handicapper. Like Gio Ponti last year at Keeneland. His prime power was some 20 points higher than anyone in the field. If the PP number is 5 points higher for a certain horse v the field, they have a 30% better chance of winning the race. take a look at the brisnet race of the day.

Billy's Empire 23 Mar 2011 10:39 AM

Hi! I am doing a research report on Thoroughbred Racing and I was wondering if you guys could help me out. Thanks!

Abigail 23 Mar 2011 10:40 AM

No problem Abigail. Not sure what questions you have but to simplify things for you a bit: Jayjay is our resident handicapping expert (just dont expect him to give you his picks before the races); Coldfacts is our pedigree guru (mind you, he hasnt picked a winner in three years on this blog so Im not sure how relevant any of his material is); Tom F V is the expert on all industry related matters (He sometimes goes by the name of Tim G); Ted from LA is the blog moderator (and Caracortado's biggest fan); Dr. Drunkinbum is our blog veterinarian (he specializes in helping donkeys, not horses, though) and Draynay is the person you want to come to if you have any questions about chalk, cheap speed or anything California related. Hope this helps. Feel free to fire away with questions. We have the whole industry covered here!

Jason Shandler 23 Mar 2011 10:51 AM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAA, too funny. I think Cold Facts redeemed himself after picking Espoir City in the classic by picking Pre Peg. He had been talking about that horse for a while.

Billy's Empire 23 Mar 2011 11:01 AM

Coildfacts- training in Europe is much. much different than training here. Their gallops are more strenuous and they simulate race conditions frequently.  Contrary to what it looks like, they have a very solid foundation by the time they make their first start.  But, to be clear, the feat that Lammtara accomplished is unusual even by European standards.  But the way they are trained makes them much fitter, so a prep race is much less needed.  Michael Dickenson used European training methods training methods to bring Da Hoss  back for his no prep BC Mile win.

Footlick 23 Mar 2011 11:08 AM

Still laughing at the 10:51 post.

Jason, when does the blog regarding the Zatarain's Louisiana Derby come out and when did that race become a $1,000,000 purse?

2:24 23 Mar 2011 11:13 AM

if uncle mo or the factor were in the race saturday with macleans music they would have lost !

alydarelaxing 23 Mar 2011 11:34 AM

Santa Anita has been lightning fast this year, we all know that. Maclean's Music ran a good race, but the 114 Beyer # is impossible. After watching The Factor last weekend it seems to me that the times at S.A. are at least 2 seconds faster than other tracks based on the surface alone, not the horses. I am surprised that this horse received his own blog after one race.

Flashpoint was much more impressive in his last race than Maclean's Music. Is he headed to the Swale or the FL Derby?

Coldfacts posted Premier Pegasus as a winner four days before the race. He deserves far more respect for his cold facts and insight.

Garrett Gomez will be just fine without Ron Anderson. In my opinion agents are paid way to much money for talking and buying donuts for backstretch workers. If they wanted to really show appreciation, they would hand out cash after a big win.

Nacho Business and Left are interesting runners in the Louisiana Derby. Left seems promising, yet his races have been slow to date. I'm going with Nacho Business for the win over Mucho Macho Man.

Forbidden Apple 23 Mar 2011 11:39 AM

Jason, you young whipper-snapper -- can I ask if you might be doing a blog about the fillies?  Seems they're getting a little short shrift.

We need some updates so that when one of them goes in the Preakness this year (are any of them still possibly in for the Derby?), we won't catch Draynay by surprise (he needs some time to bandwagon-jump).

mz 23 Mar 2011 11:40 AM

Now everyone realizes that beyer numbers are inconsistent.  We had this discussion before and everyone said I was wrong for questioning this beyer dude formula.  I've never used it because it never takes into consideration how the horse ran and just mainly focuses on the split times and the final race times.  As with Carlos, old school handicapping works just as well if not better.

Laz : I saw your request from Beyer to explain HP's beyer but seriously, I think the guy has made so many modifications and adjustments to his formula that he probably doesn't understand it anymore.

jayjay 23 Mar 2011 12:01 PM

Billy's Empire:

 You youngster, Die Hard indeed!  I hear his name and think Don Maclean and 'American Pie', especially with Distorted Humor as his sire.

Zarvona:  

You drove me crazy, not naming the horse, but sent me off on an enjoyable, productive hunt through pedigrees. (I love a mystery--although I'm not old enough to know about said radio show first hand!)  Thanks for the trip.

Jean in Chicago 23 Mar 2011 12:17 PM

Nobody said that Beyers were an end-all, be-all Jayjay. We've always said they (and Bris) were one tool of many to use, just like looking at the pretty horses on TV before the race. The problem I had in previous blogs were people disrespecting Andy Beyer personally. Whatever you may think of his speed numbers, the guy is very knowledgeable about racing and has done a lot of the sport.

Louisiana Derby blog tomorrow 2:24.

mz: Esther Marr will be doing regular Oaks blogs beginning next week! Look for them soon. I am supposed to talk to Larry Jones about his Oaks fillies later today and will have an article on the Bourbonette tonight.

Jason Shandler 23 Mar 2011 12:19 PM

Jason,

My next goal is to trump jayjay as your resident handicapper. lol. And just for the hell of it, I will follow the same format as you guys do on THS with your weekly wagers and $20 limit per race. Even though just posting my picks prior to the race should take the cake alone. lol. I assume LA Derby will be the featured race this week?

The Rock 23 Mar 2011 12:21 PM

Good luck The Rock. You have very small shoes to fill :)

Yes, LA. Derby and Spiral Stakes are featured races.

Jason Shandler 23 Mar 2011 12:24 PM

Coldfacts,

Name another horse in Lamtarra's league. The point I'm making is that its rare. Yea a horse that never ran as a two year old won the ky derby as well......over a 100 years ago!! And you want another reason why it'll never happen in the ky derby? No graded earnings for winning a MSW. In Europe, there's no limit to how many horses can enter their races. Maybe there is, but it doesn't max out to 20 in their classics.

The Rock 23 Mar 2011 12:25 PM

Jason,

LOL your descriptions were a hoot.

You are just a kid, my friend... one of my first trips to the track I saw Beau Purple beat the great Kelso. Back then we had no DRF but bought the Morning Telegraph for 50 cents. I also got to see Sunny Jim Fitzsimmons at Belmont one time when he was in his 80's. Anyway, remember what Mark Twain once said, "age is just a case of mind over matter... if you don't mind, it doesn't matter."

Best regards.

Old Timer 23 Mar 2011 12:30 PM

MM to the Preakness ?  Give me a break.  The horse may be ready for the big boys come Haskell time.  Geez.

Draynay 22 Mar 2011 5:25 PM

Rumor has it he's going to the Ark. Derby to whip Cal Nation. LOL.

pampero furpo 23 Mar 2011 1:00 PM

Abigail : You can write about the greatest horse that ever raced : Zenyatta.  Mr. Jshandler is our resident Zenyatta expert and historian, he sleep, breath and gobble up anything Zenyatta related.  Just don't ask him about HOTY awards.    For HOTY awards and sure win predictions, please contact Draynay, unless you want to talk about Quality Road, then he'll just ignore you.

jayjay 23 Mar 2011 1:15 PM

Jason : Was questioning his formula which I said was always adjusted a couple days later being disrespectful ??  I remember that that's what my post was, then everyone (meaning you) jumped on me saying that he's forgotten more about horse racing that I'll ever know...or something to that effect lol.

Now you're saying the same thing I said a long time ago.  You don't trust it because it's inconsistent.

The Rock : I welcome the challenge, but you and I both know we're contesting for 2nd as Draynay is the handicapping "king".  As long as the race has Dominguez, Borel or a 1-9 horse running in it or trained by Pletcher.  We have no chance...

I already posted my horses for the LA Derby, Elite Alex and MMM and my longshot is Wilkinson (hoping he'll run higher than 8-1).  I'll post my winning pick 4s and pick 6s on Monday.  I have a feeling Jason will pick Wilkinson as well, but let me know after you watch the THS show.  

jayjay 23 Mar 2011 1:28 PM

Jason:

The Derby preps are getting exciting, probables for the Wood,

Jayjay (Jaycito) VS Draynay (Uncle Mo). That's if they both go in this race?

tcc 23 Mar 2011 1:34 PM

The Lane's End race (this name sounds better than the Spiral) :

Horse, Trainer

1. Decisive Moment, Juan Arias

2. Positive Response, William Morey

3. Thirtyfirststreet, Doug O’Neill

4. King Congie, Tom Albertrani

5. Glint, Kellyn Gorder

6. Preachintothedevil, Gary Contessa

7. Twinspired, Michael Maker

8. Rescind the Trade, Rick Violette

9. Animal Kingdom, H. Graham Motion

10. Beachcombing, Chad Brown

11. Son of Posse, Rhiannan Vitiello

12. Taptowne, Wayne Mogge

13. Ocasta, Darrin Miller

14. Quiet Assault, D. Wayne Lukas

15. Crimson China, H. Graham Motion

16. Swagger Jack, Darrin Miller

17. Sorgho, Don Bennett

18. Smarter Than Ever, Clark Hanna

After looking at the names of the trainers and the horses names, my choices for this race are :

Twinspired (You know like the twin spires on CD, how can you not bet this horse ??)  and Positive Response (only cause I expect a positive response to my longshot bets, damn I'm good)

My longshots are Quite Assault, only cause it sounds like CIA stuff and I like CIA stuff, and Glint just cause it's a cool name.  I might throw in Son of Posse in the mix there, can't leave out Rhianna's horse, she so hot.

Are you going to have a new blog with your picks for the weekend ?  Or do I have to find out what they are from the show ?

jayjay 23 Mar 2011 1:48 PM

Jason:

Question to all posters.

Which horse will Draynay change to if Uncle Mo happens to lose a race?

Anybody have any idea's, or thought's on who it will be?

tcc 23 Mar 2011 2:44 PM

Abigail:

Draynay rode the 2009 Cash Call Futurity first (Go Cali) and second place finishers (ran on a synthetic track) last season.

Draynay's "magic" almost put one of the horses over the rail in the Santa Anita Derby and subsequently the horse drew the 1 post in the Kentucky Derby which caused his trainer to reply "We need to break well, and we're screwed."  

The horse broke slow, got pinched and bumped 20 yards out, was ahead of 1 horse at the 1/2 mile pole, and finished off the board despite closing strong on an off track.  

Recognizing the Draynay "Magic Touch" he jumps off Lookin at Lucky after his dismal run in the Derby for the Preakness.

Lookin at Lucky prevails once the "curse" was lifted and was voted Best 3 Year Old of the Year.  

The End.

Householder 23 Mar 2011 2:52 PM

jayjay

I would think that Andy Beyer's basic Beyer formula is always the same, as in that the basic formula and the way the available data is applied should always be a constant.  It's the variables and how they are applied that should be explained and I believe since he gets paid to have them included in the DRF, there should an occasional explanation such as Maclean’s 114 Beyer, simply because it is the highest first time Beyer ever recorded and it was recorded on a track that has only been running dirt races for 3 months since returning to dirt (not enough concrete info to properly evaluate).  Variables can be whatever you want them to be.  To me, that's the problem.  The system of developing pars is a good one to help with proper evaluation, but they should be consistent and always make sense.

LAZMANNICK 23 Mar 2011 2:55 PM

Wow, did others see the article on Ball Four?  I had no idea he was still racing.  Thanks to the people who were there to offer help and get him to Old Friends, including Mike Repole, Laura Hillenbrand and many others.

I saw Ball Four in person when he won the 06' Kentucky Cup Classic.  He beat Perfect Drift and Premium Tap that day.  It was a solid field because Premium Tap, who almost went down in the race, came back to run a huge 3rd to Invasor and Bernardini in the BC Classic, won the gr.1 Clark off by himself, and pushed Invasor to the limit in the Dubai World Cup.

Ball Four would come out to California years after that Kentucky Cup Classic to have solid success in synth stakes races, including beating a then undefeated Rail Trip in the 09' Mervyn LeRoy.

GunBow 23 Mar 2011 3:05 PM

TCC

Good question. He will deny he was ever on Uncle Mo if he loses.

Mike Relva 23 Mar 2011 4:21 PM

I have always felt the Beyer system is out of whack, but who goes purely by Beyers, anyway?  Even if the Beyer is inflated, you can't deny that Maclean's Music ran a very impressive race and looks to have a very bright future.  

Equination.net 23 Mar 2011 4:47 PM

I followed Ball Four last year when he raced at Monmouth and Belmont.  It's nice that he won his last two, but come on, for a $5K tag and then a $4K tag.  Enough is enough.  A graded stakes winner who actually defeted G1 horses.  This guy was as honest as they come.  Maybe he loved the track and racing, I don't know, but he should have been retired a long time ago.

LAZMANNICK 23 Mar 2011 4:57 PM

Draynay has already made it clear that he thinks Brethren is a real killer.

Forbidden Apple 23 Mar 2011 5:38 PM

LAZ

How's it going? Agree with you regarding Ball Four.

Mike Relva 23 Mar 2011 6:02 PM

The Rock,

Kindly revisit my post it focused on the Preakness and not the derby.

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 7:02 PM

Billy's Empire,

I do not recall picking Espoir City in the BCC, I merely mentioned some cold facts about him. The horse I raelly liked had a breif lead in the stretch and fade quickly. Finished 6th.

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 7:09 PM

Soldat is going to be tough to beat in the Florida Derby. Stay Thirsty just needs a good finish to take the next step forward.  Much Macho needs a big win to be considered any type of threat at all but I just don't see him a first tier horse.  Dialed In is a late runner that will pick up some pieces but how will he ever make it through traffic in the Derby.  Pass.  Brethren and The Factor need a win in the Arkansas to be considered any type of threat in the Derby.  What is left?  Nothing that can compete with Uncle Mo and future Wood winner.  No horse combines the skill and talent he does and frankly they have run out of time.  Uncle Mo is going to go into the Derby much the best leaving people to hope the gate doesn't open or the jockey falls off for the horse to lose the Derby.

draynay 23 Mar 2011 7:25 PM

I agree with Rangazulion (sp?)...McLean would--at this point, anyway--be an excellent sprinter, maybe 6 1/2 and under furlongs. The way he slowly, yet quickly (does that make sense?) gains ground is a credit to himself, and of course Mike Smith.

RachelForever 23 Mar 2011 7:31 PM

Not to take up for Draynay, but I do remember him sticking with Big Brown and Rachel Alexandra after losses.

2:24 23 Mar 2011 7:42 PM

Forbidden Apple,

You are going to be hated for defending me. I see you like Nacho Business in the Louisiana Derby. I was very impressed with his debut win. His Sire Rahy has a tendency to sire millionaires, 10 to be exact. The final time for race in which he finished a close second was 1:52 plus. That’s a very slow time for 9F and has left me wondering if he is as good I initially thought.  Based on that time I am not convinced he is a legitimate derby contender and cannot see him wining the LA derby. There is a nice story behind Mucho Macho Man but he too appears very average. This derby is going to be about speed and and plenty of it. Those 48-49, 1:12-1:13, 1:37 horses are going to be 15 lengths behind the leaders and are not in the league of closers Dialed In or Jaycito and will end up racing the ambulance.

The horse I am interested in seeing run is Mavericking.   I have no information on him but I was advised he will be making his dirt debut. He is from a sire line that I have labeled THE MOST POWER FORCE IN TRIPLE CROWN HISTORY. That is the Raise A Native sire line. Any horse form this line that shows ability normally gets on my watch list.

He was sired by the regally bred Empire Maker out of a Lord At War broodmare. Interestingly, he has the same sire and dam sire as derby runner up PioneerOf The Nile. It appears he has a better broodmare line than POTN. His second dam was sire by Belmont 3rd place finisher Naskra; third dam by Preakness and Belmont Little Current and fourth dam by Buckpasser. He probably has too much stamina and too little speed but the LA derby field is so slow he should fit right in. The fact that he is a grandson of the great Triple Crown sire Unbridled, make him even more interesting. Another grandson of Unbridled (Saratoga Red) was an encouraging 4th in his second start in the Rebel. Records reflect that the fastest son of Mr. Prospector is E Dubai. He was out of a Lord At War Mare as well. He won the 10F Suburban in 2:00.95 running the last 2F in 24 plus. It appears stallions from the Raise A Native sire line cross very well with Lord At War mares. Mavericking is also a homebred and five have worn the roses in the last 10 derbies. Could this bred in the purple homebred have some hidden potential that could cause him to run a break out race in the LA Derby?  You never know! I am sure he will be at a price that suits my wagering policy i.e., wager small on prospect that can reward with large returns.

I will also be paying keen attention to Thirtyfirststreet in the Spiral and Supreme Ruler in the Sunland Derby as both are on my watch list. If one of those we three colts win the 10 cents exotics will be return handsomely. I know, I am crazy!.

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 8:09 PM

Me drop a horse because he loses?  I am and have always been a big Afleet Alex fan.  Had him in the Derby and had him in the Preakness and Belmont. I stuck with Quality Road, Big Brown, and Rachel.  Seems to me I have a great eye for talent.  This year I am all over Uncle Mo because of pure talent.  Talent I haven't seen in a long time.  As a 3 year old Uncle Mo in a few weeks will do something Secretariat could not.  He will win the Wood and head into the Derby undefeated.

Draynay 23 Mar 2011 8:13 PM

RachelForever,

I recall Rangazulion joining forces with a poster from Florida and they just fell short of calling SOS for specifying very early that The Factor's pedigree would allow him to rout. He was adamant the colt was nothing but an exceptional sprinter. He is saying the same thing again. Be careful who and what you endorse. I will provide you with some cold facts about Maclean's Music later.

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 8:19 PM

LOL Draynay,what happened to Brethren going to whip TF in the Arkansas??  Now it's down to both of them needing a win, no more bashing of the TF ?  Also, now you're on Soldat's wagon too?  What's going on ?

Laz : I don't follow his articles (assuming he has one) so I really don't know where he posts his adjustments but yeah, for folks who uses the beyer like it's the horse racing bible (like Draynay) I hope that Beyer puts out some explanation.   I don't have to worry about you, after all, you're the one bringing up all these inconsistencies where some folks would look at those beyers (HP and MM) and not even think about how crazy it is.  For guys like me who's never used it, I would have never questioned it...so THANK YOU.

2:24 : There's a difference between sticking with your horse and constantly mentioning specific races they have won and not recognizing facts then the horse loses after touting them HOTY.  Think of QR and his Donn race, RA and her 2009 races, ask Draynay about the rest of 2010 for those horses and he'll ignore you.

Jason : You covering any Meydan races at all ? or is that in another blog ?  I'm planning on playing the superfectas on a few races.  I want to know who your picks are so I know which ones not to bet lol.

The only one I like is Crowded House, I'm not too sure about Fly Down in the DWC as I don't know how he'll handle the tapeta.  It looks like this is going to be a tough field with lots of good horses coming from everywhere.

jayjay 23 Mar 2011 9:08 PM

Billy, I admit it, love the Bris Race of the day!

I have learned a lot about how to read the bris reports just playing and seeing how it works out looking back - I really never wagered on them much in the 40 years I've owned and adored Thoroughbreds.

I do once in a while "nowadays" so its like learning something all new about that aspect of them for me. Learning the Bris PP's has increased my success greatly.

I have enjoyed It very much and find it relaxing and distracting especially when I get it figured out and I can look back and see why.  

God forbid he draws the 1 hole Dray, that does make a difference even when your head and shoulders the best in the KD.

And Jason (see I can call you Jason cuz even though you are old, and aging fast I still am older than you, and some dirt too) that was really very humorous.  

Abgail - Dont let these pinned ear head whippin old bloggers scare you away sweetie - they are easily tamed with carrots, peppermints, sugar, or pints of stout, just like grumpy old racehorses.  

Zen's Auntie 23 Mar 2011 9:21 PM

Uncle Mo has already done something Secretariat didn't do. Secretariat was not unbeatn as a 2YO.

If Jaycito shows up for the Wood Uncle Mo could pay $2.10 to place

Coldfacts 23 Mar 2011 10:13 PM

Rachel, you beat me to it!  The $900K sale price on Maclean's Music was an RNA.  As shown in the PPs last Saturday, the colt IS owned by his breeder, Stonestreet.

The thing about this that's really thought-provoking is that Jess Jackson thought so much of this boy that he put a reserve on him that $900K didn't meet.....in today's market!  Also, when the reserve isn't met, the hip is frequently sold in a private deal after the auction, which obviously didn't happen either.

What this looks like to me is that Jackson entered the colt in the sale with a reserve that he knew wouldn't be met just to get a gauge on his current market value, and was willing to pay the house commission on the hammer price to get it.  I think it's highly likely that he never intended to sell the horse in the first place.

I may be wrong, but the fact that Maclean's Music came out and smoked in his debut makes me think I might not be.

Very interesting!

Paseana 23 Mar 2011 10:57 PM

If Brethren finally gets a good post you can believe I will have WP money on him in the Arkansas.  I think Brethren getting a good post and a fast track is what he needs. His next two works will be telling.  As will the slow works The Factor will be posting.  I know a tired horse when I see one and it's going to be hard to get that horse cranked for 9 furlongs. Soldat right now is my exacta partner for Uncle Mo.  If Stay Thirsty improves he may bump him but Soldat looks tough.

Draynay 23 Mar 2011 11:02 PM

DRAYNAY

Wow? Let's ALREADY say Mo is a far better horse than Secretariat ever was and hand him the Derby in a walk over.

Mike Relva 23 Mar 2011 11:12 PM

Coldfacts I like the way you go right to the Secretariat and Uncle Mo gloss--lets see him win the Derby first--a tough race to win, yet the best ones do--the Seattle Slews, Spectacular Bids, Secretariats, Affirmeds---they win the Derby--let's see Uncle Mo do that first, then compare them--until then, he's Holy Bull, real nice--not Secretariat.....

Matthew W 24 Mar 2011 12:40 AM

Also wonder about Wilburn.....how do they compare him to McLean's Music? Both looked awesome, as did a Cal bred who Beyered low but finished fast--Tiz A Bud Man...but Uncle Mo and Premier Pegasus have opened up on them, in my book, and Pre Peg is close to the lead, for me, right now.....alas, I landed on Jaycito, at 21-1 in the first go-round, a fighting chance with Baffert/Cali-closer who couldn't get up at Santa Anita/but might pick it up in Louisville angle.....

Matthew W 24 Mar 2011 12:49 AM

Draynay-

The only thing you have talent for is whatever looks 3-5 on paper!! Simple as that...

Good luck at the windows everyone.

furlongs 24 Mar 2011 1:37 AM

And, at age 2, Secretariat had 9 starts compared to Uncle Mo's 3.

merlinmerry 24 Mar 2011 1:42 AM

Coldfacts,

Many people already dislike me for questioning the abilities of racings golden boy trainer, Todd Pletcher. I am far from convinced that the KY Derby has already been won by Uncle Mo. Without looking at a DRF, I definitely like the way Nacho Business closed in his last race. Yes it was run in 1:52, but he did not have much chance to win. Arch Traveler had an easy lead and took off at the top of the stretch. By the time N.B. got going, Arch Traveler was gone. I also like Left, even though his times have been ultra slow so far. I will take a long look at Mavericking on friday when I pick up a DRF.

Maclean's Music might be a nice horse, but why is he mentioned 7 weeks before the KY Derby? When The Factor ran a much more impressive maiden breaker, he was written off as a sprinter and no factor.

Uncle Mo is simply an above average horse who has pushed over Mountain Town, Boys@Tosconova, and Rattlesnake Bridge. Do any of these horses sound like stiff competition? Let's see if he can win the Wood Memorial first, one race at a time. The continued comparisons to racing greats of the past is absurd.

Forbidden Apple 24 Mar 2011 10:10 AM

Speaking of "slow" works I see Zito shows us Dialed In putting in 4 in 47.55.

I guess the colt IS improving he sure looked like a legitimate contender in person.

His two turn allowance and whatever sneaky conditioning Nick is doing must have done him some good.

Zen's Auntie 24 Mar 2011 10:52 AM

Draynay,

A few comments of your (23 Mar 2011 11:02 PM) post:

“I think Brethren getting a good post and a fast track is what he needs”

You continue to set up yourself for incoming fire. Good horses rise to the occasion on any surface and from unfavorable post positions. I told the chief Pletcher kool aid drinker after the Sam Davis that it appeared Brethren had issue in hind end. In the TB Derby he darted to the right after being passed suggesting he was felling some discomfort. His rider rarely employs left hand whipping so it was not the whip. Brethren won his debut a 6F in 1:08 plus. He won an 8F allowance race at CD in 1:36 plus. He has clearly regressed as he was incapable of defeating a weak TBD field. This is a pattern with Mr. Pletcher’s horses. When they start running badly I would leave them alone as they rarely rebound in the short term. There will be much better competition in the AK derby and he has no chance of winning. No broodmare has ever produced consecutive derby winners consequently the prospect of Brethren becoming a champion is remote and his prospect of being a derby winner should not even be considered.  

“I know a tired horse when I see one and it's going to be hard to get that horse cranked for 9 furlongs”

The factor ran the fastest 6F & 8F for the Rebel in the last 24RYS and you didn’t expect him to be tired? Was Brethren tired after his slow TBD fractions? The conditioner of The Factor has won 9 Triple Crown race in the last 10YRS including 5 Preakness. Why highlight the 5 Preakness victories? All his Preakness winners exited Kentucky Derbies that were run two weeks earlier. It must be exceedingly clear that Speedy Bob knows how to get them to recover from tough races in a short window. The same cannot be said about Dismal Todd who has never won a Preakness and has publicly stated that he requires four weeks between races.

“Soldat right now is my exacta partner for Uncle Mo”

Soldat ran the slowest FOY in the last five renewals and you are proud to announce that he is your ‘exacta partner’ Soldat will not hit the board in the derby if his speed figures do not improve significantly. This derby will be about speed and plenty of it. Colts like Uncle Mo, The Factor, Anthony’s Cross and Premier Pegasus have superior cruising speed and more stamina in their pedigrees. How is he going to run his usual 48, 1:12, 1:37 and beat those colts?  Ignore the cold facts at your own peril.

Coldfacts 24 Mar 2011 11:09 AM

Mr. Shandler,

I think you should tell the board why you seldom post comments early in the morning.  I know your routine of mall walking and watching reruns of The Golden Girls, but others may not.  Thanks.

Ted from LA 24 Mar 2011 11:40 AM

Coldfacts,

Unless the Preakness field isn't overflowed, which is a rarity nowadays unless you enter the Belmont, MSW earnings won't be enough for him to get in the race. Last I heard, the Epsom Derby is on the same level as the KY Derby over there.

You can put as much cover up (foundation) as you want on a horse. No matter how talented they are it is very very very rare for a horse to accomplish that feat. Lamtarra is 1. You think Asmussen is going to put foundation on this horse? He rarely works them past 6f's at a time. Don't forget that Jess Jackson is handling his strings. And we know how that goes.

Jayjay,

Checking out the LA Derby pp's right now. Let you know in a bit.

The Rock 24 Mar 2011 11:49 AM

.... and Matlock and Murder She Wrote.....

Ted from LA 24 Mar 2011 12:04 PM

Draynay : Easy to say you'll put WP money on Brethren based on post when you don't specify what "good post" is.  We already know you contradicted yourself with the post positions in Tampa Bay.  Can you specify what is good post in Oaklawn ?  So you can't wiggle your way out about betting $2 WP money on Brethren ?

jayjay 24 Mar 2011 1:01 PM

The Rock:

The relevance of prep races is one of my favorite topics.

This extract is taken from Wikipedia:

"Winner of the second of his two starts at two in 1995, Shaamit won the 1996 Epsom Derby on his first appearance of the season. He was the second horse in consecutive years to win the Derby on his seasonal debut, following Lammtarra in 1995".

Horses win races off long layoffs every week. An issue is only made of the need for prep races when the  race in question is called The Kentucky Derby.

JerseyBoy 24 Mar 2011 1:02 PM

OK one more Dialed In observation. Keep in mind that was a mile and 1/8th 9F on 3/06 and he was driving at the finish gaining in the changing track chasing an older male.  

This too me was a really good prep off the Holly Bull which came off looking soft, which it should not have been with Gourm Din, Ducky, MuchoMMan. In a fast opener DI won the HB in 1:35 and one, Going away. Albiet at getting 4 lbs but still looking very impressive.

So I have heard weight will be a factor for DI. I do think Weight might be a factor but although I have no inside information here, I suspect the works are going on under a bit more weight. It just seems to me there is deeper conditioning going on here beyond published works.

Zen's Auntie 24 Mar 2011 1:06 PM

Saturday 3-26-11 @ FG

Race 4: Finally get to see Bind (6) stretch out here. Great post to stalk Hydro Power (5) who will break directly inside of him. Think they'll crawl up front and make it a sprint for home. Nothing much in here besides Bind. Hopefully Rosey will open it up again to see what he's got. Prime Cut (2) will get first run on the rest in case Hydro Power weakens. Chalky results

The Play: $15 EXA 6-5 $5EXA 6-2

Race 6: Quickly skimmed this race. Mission Impazible (3) and Birdrun (4) look like they'll be able to set the pace, but I don't believe they'll go crazy in this race. They've been prone to sitting up close to quick fractions and hanging around and if they go a moderate pace up front they can spurt away. Demarcation (5) and Giant Oak (6) should be picking up the pieces late. (7) Apart had no excuses last time and thought I had the winner around the turn but he hung badly. (2) El Caballo is interesting off the layoff. He's run well fresh and scored a big beyer on the main track off a layoff before albeit in the mud. Still up against it but will be an overlay and can be used for the 3rd spots in tri's.

The Play: $3EXA 3,4/3,4,5 =$12 $1EXA 3,4/3,4,5,6 = $6. $1 EXB 3,4 = $2

Race 7: Looks like they entry in here will be tough. They should control the race and both love the track. Unless they kill each other up front, should be tough to beat. Riley Tucker (5) & Snapshot (7) should fight out the second spot.

The Play $10 EXA 1/5,7 =$20

Race 8: Tough race here. This G2 is really a Nx2 other than. I'm really intrigued by Daisy Devine (5) here. Horse broke her maiden for 30k claiming. Then stepped up to nx1 allowance and beat a fellow rival here at 40-1. Tried the 1st leg of the FG Oaks series and did not disgrace with a tight runner up finish despite a wide trip. Has been working lights out for this for a 32% trainer and is very tactical and should get first run on the classy closers in here. Hope the 8/1 m/l floats up.

$20 win 5: although I will be playing her Across the board with additional funds.

Race 10: Tough to get away from Mucho Macho Man (4). He completely outclasses this field by a long margin. He's another horse that can be placed anywhere he wants in case those go guns blazing up front. And even if they did, could still see him putting them away early. I've liked both of Nacho Business's (1) races at GP this year. His last race was really impressive as he was boxed in behind a slow pace and Arch Travler got the jump on him but NB was really gettin to him late. With MMM most likely being odds on, might see decent value on this one who should have the fave directly in his sights turning for home with a ground saving trip. Machen (6) will be my 3rd choice. Jayjay I see what you're saying about Wilkinson and Elite Alex, but I'm concerned about the wide trips they'll get & value since Gomez is on Wilkinson and Elite Alex will has been in the paper's a lot recently. Pace should be good enough for all but I don't know what was behind them in their races. Machen got some good experience last time in which I believe was a better field than what's entered today. He was even turning for home but he's worked great since and hopefully he'll be up closer to the pace than usual and get first run on the closer's. Should be higher than 7/2 ML.

The play: $8EXA 4/1,6 $2EXA 1,6/4 = $20

The Rock 24 Mar 2011 1:15 PM

Not to take up for Draynay, but I do remember him sticking with Big Brown and Rachel Alexandra after losses.

2:24 23 Mar 2011 7:42 PM

2:24,

He came up with every excuse in the book and even made some up for their losses if that's what you call sticking with them. I think the reason he stuck with RA particularly was she kept racing weak horses which made it easier to win races that were big in name but lacking in talent. Heck she never won a race against her own sex where there was a horse entered who had previously won a G1 race. The "boys" she beat were just that, boys not "men".

mr bo jangles 24 Mar 2011 1:21 PM

The Rock : Who do you like in the Sunland Derby ?  I'm salivating at Beer Meister's morning line odds at 15/1 to hit the board/superfecta.  I'll probably play Asmussen's horse on top with Nacho Saint but it's Fusa Code, not Astrology.  I don't like Astrology's post for his first race back although he has Leparoux, won't be the first time Leparoux would beat me if Astrology wins lol.  I'll play him in my tickets though together with Sinai, Ruler On Ice and Beer Meister.

jayjay 24 Mar 2011 1:48 PM

I think Jaycito will run fine in the Kentucy Derby just like his daddy did.  His daddy blew right past Uncle Mo's dad who looked like he was tied to the 1/8th pole.

I think Baffert has the head case on the right track.  

Love to see him ship out to the Wood.

Householder 24 Mar 2011 3:01 PM

As to The Factor blowing hard or getting tired after The Rebel, I think running over the track at Oaklawn is notoriously tiring.  I would expect the horse to be tired and would also expect that doing so would provide the horse with a good fitness base.  

2:24 24 Mar 2011 3:15 PM

Coldfacts, you couldn't handicap your way out of a wet diaper.  Soldat will be tough on Derby Day because he has the deepest FOUNDATION of any horse in the Derby.  It is likely he will be the only horse with 3 wins at 1 1/8th this year so when the real running starts this horse will have depth to call on.  Uncle Mo is going to win the Derby because he is the most talented horse I have seen in 30 years.  You pretending like a California horse will have something to say in the Derby is laughable.  I will bet a California horse to win the Derby when pigs fly.  I choose not to give up on Brethren because he got a tough ride last time and even the jock admits it.  I was there and I can tell you the 10 post is no fun at Tampa.  I still think he is a good horse and will wait for him to catch a good post and fast track to see if I am right.  One thing I know for sure is he will be fit and ready and have no excuse.

draynay 24 Mar 2011 3:26 PM

forbidden apple, no one dislikes you because you don't think Uncle Mo is going to win the Derby. They just don't understand why you can't see the greatness in such a talented horse.  Unlce Mo was a better horse at 2 than Secretariat and unlike Secretariat he will win the Wood.

draynay 24 Mar 2011 3:31 PM

Cal Nation to the Preakness...wow. Seems the owner feels the SAME WAY I do.  The jockey really got him beat in his last.  Good to see they have big plans for him.  A big talent for sure.

draynay 24 Mar 2011 3:32 PM

Where is Mr.Shandler now?  No posts in 5 hours?  There must be a pie sale at Village Inn.

Ted from LA 24 Mar 2011 4:39 PM

merlinmerry, right on regarding Secretariat's 9 starts at 2 years old. Plus name one horse in this crop who would compare to the competition that Secretariat faced, Linda's Chief; Stop the Music and later, Sham among others. 3 starts and we are now giving Mo the triple crown?

Old Timer 24 Mar 2011 4:58 PM

LA Derby,

$20 Box the 1,6,10,11 and $5 EX 1,6,10,11 over the 2.

crawdaddy 24 Mar 2011 4:58 PM

DRAYNAY

Uncle Mo didn't run nine times at two like Secretariat. Guess you forgot to include that.

Mike Relva 24 Mar 2011 6:28 PM

Jayjay,

I agree about Astrology. I'll let him beat me at short odds out of that post. Especially since he's been having a couple of things bothering him here and there. I liked Beer Meister's race last time but I'm not sure if I want to be that far back at a track like this. Usually speed favoring. But I'll never try to talk anyone out of anything over 10-1 unless we're talking about Rick's Natural Star. I like Fusa Code as well. Should sit the same trip as last time. I'm curious on what he beat though since he was a maiden going against winners. Supreme Ruler catches the eye for me. His numbers match up and I like how he ran well against older last time. Numbers fit and he's got that push button move you want in races like this that can just surprise the competition and get them spinning their wheels. He'd be my play. Don't know what his ML odds are though. But you would think Astrology would take that much play.

Nacho Saint had a tough trip last time and finds a weaker bunch here at a decent price. A lot of value can be had here with the vulnerable Astrology.

The Rock 24 Mar 2011 7:12 PM

Draynay,

On March 12th I thought you were at Gulfstream watching Uncle Mo, not at Tampa watching Brethren.  What gives??

Anyway, I have not given up on Brethren and found it interesting that Winstar/Pletcher are thinking about the Santa Anita Derby, along with the Ark Derby.  

Trebloc 24 Mar 2011 7:13 PM

Draynay, Secretariat wasn't running against non-winners of 2. Uncle Mo will never be mentioned in the same breath as Secretariat.

stevebiscuit 24 Mar 2011 7:15 PM

What?  If Brethren couldn't take the heat from those slow pokes in the Tampa Bay Derby what makes you think he'll be able to keep up with The Factor in the Arkansas Derby draynay?  Laughable! keep betting the Pletcher chalk,please!

Ice Cream Man 24 Mar 2011 7:16 PM

GOOD GOD THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!

I agree with Draynay! I do think Brethren will improve a ton off his race at Tampa in the Arkansas Derby. I mean can he beat The Factor well Brethren needs to step it up big time beyer wise to get close to The Factor, and or The Factor needs to regress which so far in his campaign he hasn't shown a real regress as of yet. But I do think Brethren needed that last race. I mean he needed a real hard tiring race to get him more fit. Tampa can be a tiring track and I think his workouts as well as who is riding him in Ark. will tell alot. I think Brethren has some real talent and that race at Tampa could prove to be the best thing to happen to him to make that step foward which he greatly needs to show he has a real chance to be a factor in the Derby. But beat The Factor I am not yet ready to say until I see what the pace looks like in the race. But I have to agree (which trust me I hate doing) Brethren has a real chance to run a much better race in Arkansas.

Good luck at the windows everyone.

furlongs 24 Mar 2011 7:35 PM

Will predict something as well when it comes to the Arkansas Derby. IF Elite Alex does not run well in the LA Derby this weekend and Brethren does indeed run at Oaklawn which it looks like that is the plan, you will see Calvin Borel aboard and if he was to win the Ark Derby what a Ky Derby Story for Borel to be on Super Saver's little Bro in back to back Derby's. The press will habe a field day!

furlongs 24 Mar 2011 7:45 PM

Did Draynay just post a blog that declared that Uncle Mo was a better horse at two than Secretariat?

John 24 Mar 2011 8:41 PM

Draynay,

With your logic of thinking that Uncle Mo was better at two than Secretariat then I will offer you  War Pass.  At two this horse was five for five including the same victories in the Champagne and BC Juvenile as Uncle Mo.

And we all know what happened after that.

John 24 Mar 2011 8:58 PM

Does Mike Smith have a Derby horse yet?

Ted from LA 24 Mar 2011 9:04 PM

STEVEBISCUIT

That's for certain,regarding Secretariat.

Mike Relva 24 Mar 2011 9:16 PM

If Brethren finally gets a good post you can believe I will have WP money on him in the Arkansas.  I think Brethren getting a good post and a fast track is what he needs. His next two works will be telling.  As will the slow works The Factor will be posting.  I know a tired horse when I see one and it's going to be hard to get that horse cranked for 9 furlongs. Soldat right now is my exacta partner for Uncle Mo.  If Stay Thirsty improves he may bump him but Soldat looks tough.

Draynay 23 Mar 2011 11:02 PM

His list is growing, there are 4 horses named in Draynay's above post. So far for now he has 3 backups, just in case Uncle Mo doesn't win the Derby for him, then he can say he picked the Derby winner if any of the backup's he has mentioned, happens to win the Run For The Roses.

tcc 24 Mar 2011 10:11 PM

I live about 2 miles from the Horse Racing Museum & HOf in Saratoga Springs,NY. There is a reason that a large bronze statue of Secretariat stands guard outside of the front window of the building. He was a tremendous equine machine! Please leave him out of any further 2011 KY Derby talk. It's like asking who would win a fight between Mike Tyson and Pee Wee Herman. Secretariat is the all time heavyweight champion of horse racing.

Premier Pegasus is the California horse that should be feared the most. After he wins the Santa Anita Derby he will be adored by many.

Elite Alex reminds me so much of how Dublin was highly regarded last year while accomplishing nothing. I can not wait until the Louisiana Derby is official. Then maybe people will stop writing about him as if he was something special. What has he done to earn so much attention? I did not like him last week at 10-1. How could he be a better wager this week at 6-1?

Forbidden Apple 24 Mar 2011 11:20 PM

tcc, nice try but I am all in on Uncle Mo for the WIN the first Saturday in May.  That doesn't mean I can't cheer on other horses in other races and remember you can't get a Tri ticket without picking 3 or more horses.  Part of me is hoping for a 123 finish with the Pletcher horses.  It's never been done and it would be something to see.  Uncle Mo wins with Brethren and Stay Thirsty taking place and show.  Wow.

draynay 25 Mar 2011 1:38 AM

Draynay : It figures that you would say you were in TampaBay for Brethren's race AND in GP watching Uncle Mo.  You have multiple personalities and not one of them can pick a winner.  I guess it shows how much you like UM, since you bailed going to GP to watch Brethren...or did you spend your travelling money to GP on Keertana ?

What's this about Soldat being solid, tough ??  Not so long ago, you were on Laz's case about this horse being so slow.  Now he's your 2nd choice to UM ?  He's not done anything different since you blasted him.  How do you go from blasting a horse to picking him to come 2nd to your greatest horse in 30 years ?? You may have just cursed Soldat by picking him for the FL Derby, I may have to take him off my top 4. LOL

And then Stay Thirsty ??  What the heck.  Are you like losing confidence on UM ??  Remember what Jason said, UM whooped Stay Thirsty 4 months ago by 15 lengths.  I've always said though, this horse is the better Derby horse in Repole's team.

The Rock : Yes, I totally agree about MMM being the class of this field and I will play him but I'm betting on Elite Alex.  This horse is just ready to fire, I think the switch to the LA Derby and avoiding The Factor will prove fruitful for the connections.  His run in the Southwest will be good enough for this bunch, as long as he's not too far back.  There's no TF here so I can see an honest pace, I'm hoping Borel takes EA to the rail for his rally instead of outside.

Good luck man!  Hope you hit the big one.

jayjay 25 Mar 2011 3:28 AM

"I will bet a California horse to win the Kentucky Derby when pigs fly"   Draynay

Draynay,

 Are you saying that you did not bet Pioneer of the Nile to win the Derby when your beloved Mine that Bird won? Everyone here knows that you lost money on POTN. You should change your statement to "I will never bet a California horse to win the Kentucky Derby again, until pigs fly." Remember the numbers Draynay? 478 and 1

longwaytomay 25 Mar 2011 6:00 AM

Cal Nation to the Preakness...wow. Seems the owner feels the SAME WAY I do.  The jockey really got him beat in his last.  Good to see they have big plans for him.  A big talent for sure.

draynay 24 Mar 2011 3:32 PM

Just a few days ago you were ridiculing bloggers for getting excited about The Factor as he "only" won two G2's. You made it clear you thought people were crazy to get excited about a horse who hadn't won a G1. Heck he couldn't even win an Allowance race but you got an excuse for that as usual. Cal Nation will not win the Preakness!!

no mo cal 25 Mar 2011 9:08 AM

Elite Alex is morning lined at 6/1 because there is no "Factor" in this race and a weaker field on paper which is why they sent him here. It's his last ditch effort to get the Graded Earnings to make it to the Derby.

elite nothing 25 Mar 2011 9:14 AM

Uncle Mo is Favorite Trick reincarnated except he wasn't good enough to win HOY.

no mo mo 25 Mar 2011 9:15 AM

I saw Secratariat at 2 and I saw Uncle Mo at two both up close and personal. Uncle Mo couldn't carry Secratariats bridle on his best day. There is no comparison. Secratariat was far better hands down. Any fly by night whippersnapper who can't handicap his way past the chalk that thinks otherwise is laughable.  

old time wisdom 25 Mar 2011 9:21 AM

Calvin Borel will NEVER win another KY Derby!! I have $5,000 to back that claim but only if draynay's money is as big as his mouth is. Whadda ya say big mouth..........er man?

callin out draynay 25 Mar 2011 9:25 AM

Jason- off topic.  Does Kentucky have a chance against Ohio State, or is my money gone-lol.

Footlick 25 Mar 2011 10:20 AM

According to Beyer figures, Zenyatta was a slow horse.

Zenyatta 19

Beyer 0

Mike 25 Mar 2011 11:06 AM

Uncle Mo isn't favorite trick period!

The Rock 25 Mar 2011 11:15 AM

Correction: Zenyatta 19, Beyer 1.

Footlick: UK can only win if they hit their 3s. Simple as that. But people around here are pretty confident and the line makes me believe they have a good chance.

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 11:17 AM

Footlick, my 2 cents on UK. They need to have big games from Darrius Miller, Knight, and JOnes, and Jones has been medicore lately. They are a 5 1/2 point dog, but they have no depth. They play 6 players, 7 at most. OSU is better at 3 or 4 positions, and the bench is much better. Can UK cover, I think they may, but I doubt they win. Like Old Man Shan said, they need to hit 3's with Miller, Knight and Lamb, and they need to stop Lighty, Buford, and Deibler from hitting thiers, which I do not see happening.

Plus I hate UK and their fans, so

OSU

KAN

UNC

VCU

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 11:35 AM

why the hell are we talking about that mare? We have prep races to talk about, and basketball.

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 11:36 AM

Leave her alone Billy, she was above average and deserves her due.

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 11:57 AM

I was there at Tampa many times and I can speak to how tough the 10 post really is.  Saturday March 12th I was at Gulfstream watching Mo and taking pictures.  Sorry if you got confused.

Draynay 25 Mar 2011 12:08 PM

She got her due, the People's Choice Award. Now, she has something in common with Justin Beiber... I wonder if they keep that award in her stall? I wonder if her haircuts cost $750?

On to the next blog where we can start talking about Rachel Alexandra, Goldikova, and Sea the Stars....

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 12:10 PM

I guess my point is simple.  Cal Nation will be IN the Preakness and The Factor will be exposed for what he is and WILL NOT be in the Preakness.  Need I say more?

draynay 25 Mar 2011 12:19 PM

A perfect decription of greatness:

People are constantly bringing up the same name or names (Secretariat/Zenyatta), whether to compare or denigrate.

John 25 Mar 2011 12:23 PM

It may hurt your feelings but Uncle Mo was a better 2 year old than Secretariat.  It took 2 races for Secretariat just to break his Maiden.  2nd race ever I believe Uncle Mo was winning a G1 in a rout.  Need I say more?  In a couple of weeks I will compare their races in the Wood.

Draynay 25 Mar 2011 12:26 PM

DRAYNAY

Are you on something? I'm serious when I ask. Uncle didn't run nine times as a two yr old. Be prepared for the storm coming when Mo doesn't win the Derby. I'm sure most everyone will remember your insane rants regarding Mo. You do what you ALWAYS do,sling mud on some stellar horse that gave much to racing.

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 12:53 PM

BILLY'S EMPIRE

Be a man for once and admit you didn't think she would win HOY. You know you didn't. It kills you! lmao

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 12:54 PM

1,2,3 in the K Derby for the 2010 Trainer of the year? What? Tin Man gets a heart? A very sentimental Play Dray.  

I am with you on "I have a dream" If your gonna dream go HD - still, you maybe shouldnt post in your sleep at at 1:38 am cuz thatsa real DREAM.  123 huhuhu good one...

The best trainer to bet for a big "place" in the USA today is Zito - check it out he is the place in the big race KING.  

Zen's Auntie 25 Mar 2011 1:11 PM

Thanks Jason and Billy- I know they don't have reserves, but I've liked them since I was little so I bet them if they get in.  OSU will be very tough to beat.

Footlick 25 Mar 2011 1:14 PM

Can I just give a shout out to Black Caviar!  Another stellar performance.

Footlick 25 Mar 2011 1:15 PM

The Zenyatta of Australia Footlick. Black Caviar is amazing.

Relva, I can gladly admit and I will admit that Zenyatta should not of won the HOY award. She lost when it counted, ran in the same boring filly and mare races over and over, and IMO Blame had a better year. She lost the race that they were pointing to the whole year. They handled her with kid gloves and coddled her all year, for what, 2nd? That does not make her a HOY. If the connections had the ballocks to say they wanted to show her off to the world, say they were going to ship NY and so on, they should of done it. They did not. You all claim she was the best in the world, no one could beat her blah blah blah. If she is the best in the world, they should of proved it and challenged her, and they did not. They bottle fed her Guiness and kept her West of the Rockies. When the real running started, she lost. So IMO, she should not of won HOY, and when she did, it was b/c of sympathy votes. Last time I checked, you could not bet on HOY, and I had Blame and won money. YOU LOST

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 2:15 PM

Billy: I asked you very nicely to leave the above average mare out of this blog. And now you bring her Sympathy of the Year Award into it? That's just not right man. Have you no shame? She is in foal and enjoying her life after dominating on synthetics in California against overmatched horses of her own sex. Let her enjoy it in peace bro!

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 2:19 PM

Jason, you know what will make Relva and gang even more mad. I get to go on a private tour of Lane's End next month, and I get to see Zenyatta. Gosh, it is good knowing people in KY. I will make sure I take pictures. Now I'm done!

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 2:25 PM

Saying Secretariat is a less  accomplished 2 year old or K Derby Contender than Uncle Mo is like saying swimming the English Channel is like a lap across the Miami Fontainebleau Hilton pool.

This is coming from a Huge Fan of the Juvenile HOTY 2010 that Nice son of Indian Charlie but if you are not tongue-in-cheek it just looks silly to say that about the 1973 winner of the triple crown and horse of the year.  

Dray I've actually seen you and you’re likeness, (The internet is a weath of info for answer people) not  that hilarious Utube, but the real you.  Unless you’ve got a picture in the attic aging for you or you are a vampire, you are too young to have seen the Big Red Horse race live - I respectfully submit you have NO idea what you’re talking about. Mo isn’t even as accomplished as Sham…

If Mo wins the wading pool of the Wood (I hope Jaycito at least shows up) He is still lacking the tempering depth I feel he needs to take on the series only won by IRON horses – I contest UM is a fine talented un-forged horse and it will unfortunately tell on him.  

Zen's Auntie 25 Mar 2011 2:27 PM

BILLY'S EMPIRE

Yeah,and I was man enough to step up admit Jason had the right horse and pay him the week after I lost. I said to you in Jan. polls were going her way and you made some remark to indicate she would lose HOY. Still don't hear you say that.  You don't have a clue what a great horse is. Go on Billy live in your fantasy world and never admit the fact her connections HAD THE LAST LAUGH! If I'm wrong,tell me how!

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 2:28 PM

Yeah Billy! you just leave Jason's pick for HOTY 2008 OUT of this blog we need to stick firmly to touting over rated 3 year olds Here - good greif man.

Zen's Auntie 25 Mar 2011 2:32 PM

BILLY'S EMPIRE

You sound like a kid getting the last slice of pie. I don't believe you regarding Lanes End. BTW you wouldn't know a great horse if it fell on you!

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 2:33 PM

I can confirm that he is indeed going to Lane's End Mike. Not  sure how much truth is to the rumor that he is going to be wearing his Blame hat, but he is going.

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 2:35 PM

Zenyatta fans, don't let Jason & Billy get to you. Just let them brag & boast about their $5 win ticket they cashed on Blame,too bad they didn't have the obvious Ex.,Tri.,and Super though.Oh,well maybe next time. LOL

Carlos in Cali 25 Mar 2011 2:36 PM

$300 to win Carlos. After cashing that and collecting all the money from people on this blog, it was a beautiful Christmas for my family. I tried to tell you that you had the wrong side, but you didnt listen. Better luck next in 2011. I will give you the winner now: Misremembered. You're welcome.

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 2:39 PM

Jason

Yeah,you beat me. But,if memory serves me you picked her to finish 4th and said HOY was over. Please tell me I have it wrong,misunderstood,etc.

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 2:54 PM

Just to mention, I dont know them or anybody else to pull any strings but in conversation this winter,  Lanes End is NOT unapproachable for visiting individuals or groups.  

As far as I know Daniele Hunter can be contacted after June to schedule a visit.

FYI - I remind EVERYONE visiting any broodmare farm NOT to wear any of the clothing or footware you wear around any other equine facilities on your visit - it helps stem the spread of disease.

Billy, I know you love her, how could you not? Enjoy the visit and all the Quality Horses there!

Zen's Auntie 25 Mar 2011 2:55 PM

JASON

I take you at your word.

Mike Relva 25 Mar 2011 2:57 PM

If you say so Jason,but you should've taken my advice on the Live blogs and you would've had an even better Xmas.Like we had. :)

What? you're not picking your beloved Uncle Mo for the Classic? Doctor.....Doctor!

Carlos in Cali 25 Mar 2011 2:57 PM

Nobody cares about SOY Mike. It was a popularity contest.

Jason Shandler 25 Mar 2011 2:57 PM

Mike, When are the Tennessee Titan's cheerleader tryouts? You and your pom poms may have a shot!

Zen's Auntie. You are right. I do love Zenyatta. She does not pick her races, she just runs in the race she is put in.

BTW, MZ and Jean in Chicago. You still want tickets to Oaks/Derby? contact jason and get my e-mail address. I got my tix already, but was offered an 8 person box on the finish line in section 116 for Oaks.

Carlos, we will lead you to the promise land. I plan on having a huge spring

Billy's Empire 25 Mar 2011 4:41 PM

I am from Columbus Ohio.  My Grandfather took me to the track for the first time in 1969.  That track was Churchill Downs. In the early 1970's he took to Sciota Downs, Beaulah Park, and to the Little Brown Jug in Delaware. I was at the Ohio Derby in 1973 when Our Native won at Thistledowns. For 10 days in March every year we would come down to Florida and stop at Hialeah to check out the new 3 year olds.  I may not look that old but like fine wine I age nicely.  If I remember right in 1973 I was already taller than Jason and I was only 10.

Draynay 25 Mar 2011 4:49 PM

You are wrong about Sham as most people are.  Sham won one major race and then NEVER WON AGAIN.  Uncle Mo has already surpassed anything Sham ever did.  Pioneer of the Nile accomplished more than Sham as did Tale of Ekati.  You can have whatever opinion you want to have but my opinion is simple. At 2 Uncle Mo was more advanced and a better horse than Secretariat was at 2.  Watch Uncle Mo in his Maiden race and then watch Secretariat in his and tell me who was better.

draynay 25 Mar 2011 4:54 PM

this horse looks like he could really be a threat to uncle mo down the road. i think its possible for them to make the preakness but if not i would point him towards the haskell.

classified 25 Mar 2011 4:57 PM

Dray,

Uncle Mo was never Horse of the Year.

The Rock 25 Mar 2011 5:43 PM

Zenyatta was a little closer than Culin and Rachel Alexander when it counted.  Bearing down that "synthetic" lane they created just for her at Churchill.

Householder 25 Mar 2011 7:36 PM

Draynay, your grandfather may have introduced you to the sport of horse racing, but someone dropped the ball in teaching you respect for others and manners.

Some people i know are 6'6 and some aren't, heigth does not have anything to do with good sense! In horses or humans.

Game on Dude is out of the race in Dubai! Injury.

Thanks Jason.

Linda in Texas 25 Mar 2011 8:27 PM

Draynay : Zenyatta would whoop Uncle Mo like a little boy, he's NOT, I repeat, NOT even close to the greats of the past.  He's just a fast horse who has won 4 races in his career.  Zenyatta the HOTY will teach him what racing is really like, yes, even after she has babies LOL.  Give it up man, I told ya, Quarter Horses...start there, pick some winners and move your way up.  Mouthing off nonsense just makes you look like a fool, make sense and people may pay attn to you, it's a longshot but it may work.

jayjay 25 Mar 2011 9:17 PM

Wow, Dray what's the secret? botox, formaldahyde? you ought to be in oil of Olay commercials seriously. Dang - you do NOT look that old, I stand corrected - Please consider my comments as a compliment - (who is your facialist?)  

So now that I know you were aware and savy  let me ask - you weren't a Big Red or Sham fan in 73?  It was hard not to be in one camp or the other and then caught up in the Secretariat triple crown acheivement with the utter dominance in the Belmont, especially as a youth.

How did the pursuit of the crown that year affect you? Every horse enthusuiast that remembers it has a story - whats yours?  

On the UM was a Better 2 year old than Big Red - You are of course entitled to your own freely voiced, if erroneous opinion.  I find it hard to see your position - what with the "depth" of the 2010 2 year old crop and all.  

Zen's Auntie 25 Mar 2011 9:21 PM

Draynay,

You're both right and wrong about Sham.  I was at Santa Anita the day he won the SA Derby (1973) tying the fastest time ever over Linda's Chief whom came into the race after establishing a new track record for a mile at Santa Anita.

He then went on to New York where he finished ahead of Secretariat in the Wood.

So prior to the Kentucky Derby he had already finished ahead of both Secretariat and Linda's Chief but will always be remembered as the horse that "pushed" Secretariat to record wins in the Derby and Preakness.

Some people had said Sham's heart was broken by Secretariat in the Belmont not knowing that after Big Red's death they discovered that his heart weighed 25 lbs. or roughly 3 x's the average size.

Little did people know later that after Sham's passing they found his heart to weigh 18 lbs.

So, yes, Sham had just won major win but is credited with tying the fastest time for the SA Derby, the Kentucky Derby, and I believe the Preakness as well.

John 25 Mar 2011 9:32 PM

Jason, I saw that you didn't respond to this previously and want to see if you're willing to respond to it now. This is from a couple blogs back.

"above average"?

What happened to you Jason? What made you sink down to this level of pettiness? What ever happened to the Jason that wrote the blog "Humble Pie" after Zenyatta's historic Breeders Cup Classic win? You certainly didn't regard as just "above average" then, so why the sudden change? What's this vendetta you have with her? I understand your annoyance with those who regard her as the best horse in history, even better than Secretariat or even The Bid, but isn't it fair to say that she, like them, is among the best of her decade, up there with the likes of Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, or Tiznow? Perhaps even the last 2 decades? I just don't get it Jason, she had your praise in 2008 and even your vote for Horse of the Year(which, after looking through the archives I was shocked to find Draynay actually arguing for Zenyatta over Curlin), then in 2009 she didn't get your vote but you still gave her her due for what she did in the Classic. Why was it that in 2010 your opinion seemed to drastically change? Please help me to understand.

stevebiscuit 25 Mar 2011 9:56 PM

Linda in Texas, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Draynay 26 Mar 2011 12:15 AM

Let me know when the below average colt named Mo gets his own bronze statue in front of the HOF.

I was also wondering if Pletcher has trained a HOY, Dubai W.C. winner, or a B.C. Classic winner?

I can not wait to see Dialed In push Stay Thirsty out of the way in the FL Derby. Since Mo is to scared to face his rivals in FL, someone from team Pletcher has to man up and take a hit.

Forbidden Apple 26 Mar 2011 12:39 AM

STEVEBISCUIT

I've always enjoyed your comments and consider you among  the voice of reason. This should be about three yr old racing,not about some that's obviously retaining issues regarding a certain award that was handed out a couple months back. As for commenting here,I'm done.

Mike Relva 26 Mar 2011 11:12 AM

Zenyatta as good as Ghostzapper? Are you out of your mind?  She NEVER beat males on dirt. Never. I rank her right up with Azeri and that is it.  She won 1 big race on a poly track and that is it.  Name all the big races she won on DIRT.  Stop with the Zenyatta nonsense she was a state champion that stepped out finally to run on a real track and got beat.  Rachel as a 3 year old faced males 3 times and won on DIRT.  Rachel did more at 3 then Zenyatta ever did.

Draynay 26 Mar 2011 11:22 AM

If anyone is still reading this blog, did Mo win HOY at 2?  Secretariat did.  All Mo's connections do is avoid the competition.  Big Red's did not.  Getting beat as a 2 year old on your way to horse of the year honors, the first time ever for a 2 year old, doesn't make him a lesser racehorse than Mo.  I can't even believe people, including me, are having this discussion.

Kristen Ohler 26 Mar 2011 10:01 PM

Take a look at Uncle Mo and his Maiden win and they watch Secretariat and his 4th place finish.  Which horse was better first time out?  After that Uncle Mo won back to back G1 races crushing the field both times.  What race was Secretariat better than Mo?  The FACT is Mo was better first time out and his next 2 performances were perfection.  So at NO POINT was Secretariat better than Mo at 2.  Secretariat won HOY and that is great but that is comparing him to horses at THAT TIME.  When comparing him to Uncle Mo at 2 Uncle Mo was better.  Sorry facts are facts.

Draynay 26 Mar 2011 11:15 PM

By the way.  After Secretariat broke his Maiden he raced on the very same track going the same distance as Uncle Mo and Secretariat did not come close to running as fast as Uncle Mo did in his Maiden.  Want more proof?

Draynay 26 Mar 2011 11:19 PM

draynay

“Coldfacts, you couldn't handicap your way out of a wet diaper.”

I will take the liberty of assuming you are an intelligent adult although the above comment suggests the adjective preceding adult might have been misused. I failed to see either the need or relevance of such a comment. We can have a civil exchange without void of comment like the above as I do not believe you have the vocabulary to compete in the rudeness arena. I suggest you adopt the response policy cited  below:

“Soldat will be tough on Derby Day because he has the deepest FOUNDATION of any horse in the Derby.  It is likely he will be the only horse with 3 wins at 1 1/8th this year”

Valid point but how significant is three competitive 9F preps? Well let’s visit some colt facts associated with the last 5 derby winners:

Super Saver (two 3yo start) 8.5F & 9F

Mine That Bird (two 3yo start) 8F & 8.5F

Big Brown (two 3yo start) 8F & 9F

Barbaro (three 3yo start) All at 9F

Street Sense (two 3yo start) 8.5F & 9F

Only one of the last 5 derby winner made three 9F starts. It therefore is reasonable to assume that Soldat does not have a significant advantage by have three starts or wins at 9F.Infact it is unusual for three at 9F before the derby.

“Uncle Mo is going to win the Derby because he is the most talented horse I have seen in 30 years”

You are entailed to your opining but not facts. Even your opinions have not been stated properly. It should really be the most talented 2YO. There have been 2YOs whose performances have superseded those of Mighty Mo. You bar for most talented has to be very low.

“You pretending like a California horse will have something to say in the Derby is laughable.”

If horses could talk I am sure the CA horses would have a few choice words for you. However, since they cannot let us compare their PP. I am of the opinion that the top CA horses have the speed figures and stamina in their pedigree to be competitive in the Derby. There is nothing laughable about that. What is laughable is statement like “Uncle Mo is going to win the Derby because he is the most talented horse I have seen in 30 years” In race of glorious uncertainties it is advisable that bold predictions be avoided at all cost.

“I choose not to give up on Brethren because he got a tough ride last time and even the jock admits it.”

No one is recommending that you should not give up on Brethren. Just don’t make excuses about track condition and post as it make you sound like a whiner. He is a nice colt that disappointed in his last race. He had no excuse. He cannot transfer to different locations the tack that best suits him. He is a thoroughbred and he should do what he was bred to do ‘Run”

Coldfacts 27 Mar 2011 3:29 PM

Draynay,

Your comments are so far off from reality. I can not beleive that someone who works for the Bloodhorse let's you bash Secretariat week after week. Secretariat hit the gate in his first start. In 1973 they did not have Beyer SPEED figures or bullett workouts. Only you would think up some garbage like this. How can you compare times at Churchill Downs for races that are 38 years apart?

I remember several weeks ago when the almighty Tom FV or something like that, said that some of my comments were bad for racing. Your comments are  silly at best and clearly against racing history.

Forbidden Apple 27 Mar 2011 4:34 PM

Coldfacts, are you serious?  You really have no idea do you?

Draynay 27 Mar 2011 7:44 PM

You're right Forbidden Apple let's continue to ignore the FACTS.  Secretariat lost twice and did not run as fast as Uncle Mo right away.  He had to run sprints again and again and still didn't run as fast as Mo first time out.  Mo won his Maiden and then won back to back G1 races including the Championship.  Secretariat was still trying to win his first race when Mo was winning a G1 those are the facts.  How many 6 furlong races would Mo have to win and how fast before you admit he was faster at 2.  Don't talk garbage to me talk facts.  Rookie.

Draynay 27 Mar 2011 7:57 PM

After the FL Derby, all of you Brethren, Stay Thirsty, and Uncle Mo fans will see what a serious KY Derby horse looks like. Dialed In is going to squash Stay Thirsty. It's time to own up to the fact that Mo is not the only colt with talent. Yet many bloggers are calling him a Triple Crown winner. Again, has anyone heard of another blogger saying that there favorite horse is going to win the Triple Crown? The answer is no, only Mo gets this kind of hype. This kind of talk is arrogance at it's best.

Forbidden Apple 27 Mar 2011 8:21 PM

The races are 38 years apart! Who cares about how fast a maiden race was run in. Mo is 100% going to taste defeat, soon come bumbaclot. Every post that comes out of your mouth is full of garbage. Out of 100 racing fans, you would be the only person to say that Mo is better than Secretariat. Secretariat won the Triple Crown! So far Mo has beat Boys@Tosconova at 2 and won the Timely Writer Derby. His credentials are weak and below average. Your twisted claims make far less sense with every passing week.

Forbidden Apple 27 Mar 2011 8:32 PM

Forbidden Apple, keep the story straight.  I said at 2 Uncle Mo was a better horse.  All the FACTS say he was. Will he be better than Secretariat at 3?  I can tell you this much Uncle Mo won't lose the Wood.

Draynay 27 Mar 2011 10:04 PM

Forbidden Apple, since Mo won his Maiden 2 of his next 3 races have been G1 races and his next 4 races are G1 races so again..... stick to facts please.

Draynay 27 Mar 2011 10:28 PM

DRAYNAY-

You comparing Uncle Mo to Secretariet is like others saying Zenyatta is the best horse ever! You know the ones you hammer on these blogs for saying that kind of stuff. I think the Secretariet/Uncle Mo talks needs to simmer down cause its even making you look dumber then you have looked in the past and that pretty hard to do from what I read on here. Now Zenyatta was a wonderful mare and Uncle Mo is a talented young horse. BUT niether is or will ever be as great as Secretariat. When Uncle Mo breaks WORLD records and runs Mile and a  1/2 with each furlongs that he runs faster then the last we can start to compair the two. When Uncle Mo wins the Triple Crown then we can compair. When Uncle Mo brings racing back to the front page of Newspapers like Big Red did then we will compair. But where I am standing it looks like Mo has some real big shoes to fill to do those things. Good luck at the wondows everyone.

furlongs 28 Mar 2011 12:56 AM

AND by the way don't try to say you were just saying at age two. You stated Uncle Mo won't lose the Wood like Big Red did. Well that might be true but winning the Wood isn't winning the Derby and that IS what Secretariat did in record time at that. Thank goodness people on here know who you are and take what you say with a grain of salt. Cause your making REAL horseplayers look like a joke with your statements.

furlongs 28 Mar 2011 12:59 AM

In 1972 Secretariat had 8 wins. In 2010 Uncle Mo had 3 wins. Many of the races in 1972 that Secretariat won were not graded back then. Again, you fail to take into account the 38 year difference. His next 4 races? This is the problem, you are already crowning Mo a champion and mapping out his next 4 races. Remember Eskendereya, Quality Road, and I Want Revenge. Nothing is for sure in this game, a horses career can take a turn for the worse with one bad step. It would be smart to take it one race at a time. Mo can win the Wood Memorial over creampuffs, big deal. You said it, keep your STORY straight and wake up to reality. You are stuck in your own My Little Pony fantasy world.

I am starting to believe that you are not a real person. Just a blog name set up by someone else to fling garbage at others.

Mo will taste defeat soon, so start making up your spin control now.

Forbidden Apple 28 Mar 2011 9:04 AM

Uncle Mo went from a Maiden win directly into a G1 race and then into a Breeders Cup Championship race.  Secretariat lost his first race and had to run into a Maiden race AGAIN and then into a allowance race.  If you can't see that Uncle Mo was a better 2 year old you are either blind or a liar. Uncle Mo was faster and won every race.  Secretariat lost twice but somehow you still believe he was better.  Based on what?  Stick with facts.

Draynay 28 Mar 2011 6:23 PM

DRAYNAY

If MO doesn't win the Wood,please don't spin it,ok? You are indicating he's a lock,just like you are saying he will win the Derby.

Mike Relva 28 Mar 2011 7:01 PM

Draynay, so every time we see a 2 year old break its maiden first time out we should just assume they're better than Secretariat? I guess running in an allowance race(disguised as the Timely Writer) against non-winners of 2 and a claimer is the true mark of a champion. What about the runner up in the Champagne? Didn't he finish last in an allowance race recently? So far, Mo's biggest accomplishment has been beating a group of green 2 year olds. If you're trying to draw an accurate comparison you should be analyzing actual figures and quality of competition instead of simply stating who had more wins at a certain point of their career. Uncle Mo is far from unbeatable. Savor the streak while it lasts, it won't be long until it's over.

stevebiscuit 28 Mar 2011 10:00 PM

Uncle Mo is just 4 races away from greatness and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Draynay 28 Mar 2011 10:41 PM

Draynay-

"On July 4, 1972, Secretariat finished fourth, beaten 1 1/4 lengths, in his first race at Aqueduct Racetrack when he was impeded at the start, forced to take up on the backstretch and then could not make up the ground. After that loss, Secretariat then won 5 races in a row, including three important two-year-old stakes races, the Sanford Stakes and Hopeful Stakes at Saratoga Race Course, and the Futurity Stakes at Belmont Park. In the Hopeful, he made a huge move, passing 8 horses in 1/4 mile to take the lead and then drawing off to win by 5 lengths. He then ran in the Champagne Stakes at Belmont, where he finished first but was disqualified and placed second for bearing in and interfering with Stop the Music, who was declared the winner.

Secretariat avenged that loss in the Laurel Futurity, winning by 8 lengths over Stop the Music, and completed his season with a win in the Garden State Futurity. Secretariat won the Eclipse Award for American Champion Two-Year-Old Male Horse, and, in a rare occurrence, two two-year-olds topped the balloting for 1972 American Horse of the Year honors with Secretariat edging out the filly, La Prevoyante. Secretariat received the votes of the Thoroughbred Racing Associations of North America and the Daily Racing Form, while La Prevoyante was chosen by the National Turf Writers Association.[2]"

Those are the facts.  You either have forgotten what the East Coast two year old season was like, and that horse were expected to run a full season, and that horses were allowed to run through their conditions because that was how they progressed and got a real foundation, or you never knew it.  By the way, La Prevoyante, a daughter of Buckpasser, went 12 for 12 in the US and Canada as a two year old.

Footlick 28 Mar 2011 10:42 PM

The point is this, when you compare Secretariat at 2 to Uncle Mo at 2 Uncle Mo was better and faster.

Draynay 28 Mar 2011 11:47 PM

STEVEBISCUIT

You couldn't be more right,but a certain individual won't step up to the plate an admit how foolish he is. He will do a one eighty and pretend he was NEVER on Mo. lmas

Mike Relva 29 Mar 2011 12:59 AM

On Brethren he finished right where his connections wanted him to finish but his next race needs to be W/P Show may give him enuff but he needs 40-60K if all horses with GE run interesting situation!!Nothing against Draynay I dont post here often enuff to no any one  but Uncle Mo has a lot to overcome yet getting to the derby and winning under Mr. JV has been a daunting task in FOREVER see Invisible Ink-Bluegrass Cat, Esky an so on.Plus he seems like a miler to me My gut says he does not make the Derby and all that future money is a bust BUT if he run strong in his next and comes away healthy and works prove it and Johnny Vee is on him as the gate closesTHEN Maybe JV gets the Roses CAN I GET AN AMEN I have not made my pick yet 0-21 attempts in the Derby but it is not for lack of trying I can still hear my self say who the hell is Little E.T.--I Love this time of year.There is still a good bit of horse racing to do yet.

Nobody had the OBVIOUS horses  Animal Kingdom and Pants On Fire    HAHAHA LOL This is my point exactly it just aint that easy come this time of year but these preps and derby represent the best betting opportunities  in gambling IMO   Whats up with the Fl Derby  ?????????

Bluegrasscat 29 Mar 2011 8:28 AM

Uncle Mo would have to win all the Triple Crown races in record time like Secratariat did to even be considered in the same breath. Uncle Mo will not even win the Ky. Derby much less in record time!!

Secratariat did what no mo will ever do.

no mo mo 29 Mar 2011 9:13 AM

You're right Uncle Mo will do what Secretariat could not do.  Go undefeated at 2 and win the Wood.

Draynay 29 Mar 2011 10:30 AM

Uncle Mo is 4 races from greatness. After he wins the Wood you will say he faced no one. After he wins the Derby you will say he had his own way.  After he wins the Preakness you will say he will never win the Belmont or it wasn't as fast as Secretariat.  You will say something and miss the joy of a Triple Crown run.

draynay 29 Mar 2011 10:36 AM

DRAYNAY

If you were smart you would realize just how foolish you look to most by  going on a "Secretariat slam". It's a disgrace to a truly great racehorse! You don't get it!

Mike Relva 29 Mar 2011 12:44 PM

Mike, it's not a slam it's called the truth.  Secretariat had a great 4 race run.  He lost the Wood and then won 4 in a row in fantastic fashion and that is what many will always remember.  After the Woodward they really didn't have any faith that Secretariat could win on dirt having lost 2 of his last 3 so they tried turf and it worked.  But don't forget the facts of WHY they went to turf.  He was a great 3 year old but his Wood, Whitney, and Woodward were not very good races he got beat badly in all 3.  But few ever talk about his 3 loses everyone wants to talk only about his 3 Triple Crown wins.  In my opinion Rachel had a better 3 year old season.  She was perfect and Secretariat was far from it.

Draynay 29 Mar 2011 5:08 PM

DRAYNAY

Perhaps why people wanna talk about the Triple Crown,is cause after him it's only been done twice since.

Mike Relva 29 Mar 2011 6:17 PM


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