Scratching her was not the sporting thing to do. The risk of injury to her was no greater than it was to any other horse.

I am totally impressed that she has won 16 races in a row. Winning that many races, of any kind, is a special accomplishment. She's certainly not "great" (not that anyone thinks she is) or even "very good," but I think I would classify her as a "good horse." I certainly wouldn't mind owning her, and I would be proud of her (if I did).

I completely disagree with you. It is upto the owner/trainer to decide whats best for the horse. They owe nothing to the sport. Im guessing fewer people care about this than did about the grade III Saranac at saratoga. People scratch their horses all the time because of an off track. If they knew the horse didnt like the track then why run on it. Why run your horse if you thin its gonna lose, record or no record. They enter the horse for a race that they want to run with a fast track. When conditions change, so do decesions by owner/trainers. It happens everyday in claiming, maiden, allowances and yes stakes races that are bigger than some record that no one cares about.

Jas - these guys are very frustrating.  First, they go for this "record" (real horsemen will never accept these wins as legitimate) with a huge crutch, that being the opportunity to run against the same sorry old mares time in and time out in NM-bred races.  They've never even considered TRYING anything else.  Who says she cant win a G3 race elsewhere?  And then, she can run until November 9? This is September 1!  There's a stakes race (8f, 3+ FM) at Zia Park in a little more than a month that would suit her perfectly.  The problem - it's open company.  They'd hardly subject their "princess" to a race that she might face someone of talent.  

Remember Happy Ticket?  She started her career at little tracks in Louisiana, and won like 6 or 7 straight against LA-breds.  But the difference there is that when they realized she was the "big fish," they took her elsewhere.  They wanted to see just how good she is.  And Happy Ticket responded to the tune of several graded stakes wins, a placing in the Breeders' Cup Distaff, and nearly $1.7M in earnings.  I for one thank God that these folks didn't own her - she'd have won 20 races in a row against LA-bred competition, but something tells me that the owners of Happy Ticket would much rather win a G1 at Saratoga than win 20 in a row in Louisiana.  

Hi,  I think they did the right thing.  Peppers Pride has never run on an off track, why go after the record on an off track.

If they had run her and she lost your article would be different and criticizing them for running her for the first time on an off track.  

My hats are off to them for thinking about the horse..not the record.

It also irks me that it has to be pointed out that the record has been accomplished while running against state bred competition.  So, what if that made it easy why are we not swamped in horses with this type of record?  Is there another horse out there that is close?

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. My take is that all along they've raced this mare to win as much as possible, not to set records. That just sort of happened. Because their goal is to win, and because I believe (like what seems to happen with all good horses)they love their mare beyond the feeling they have for their other horses, their desire is to protect her. If they didn't think she could win, what is the point of running. And I say that because I believe their goal with her is winning races, not setting records. Splitting hairs, I know, but, that's my take.

I agree with what you are saying on the one hand; however on the other hand I guess that I don't think its such a big deal.  I mean, she's NEVER run on an off track - why start now when you're trying to break a record?  They've probably picked and chosen races all long...why stop now?  If you told me that she's run on off tracks before and barely squeaked out those wins, then I would feel more strongly they should have run her on the off track and took their chances going for #17.  But it seems to me that even on a perfect day, there is never a guarantee of a win.  If they've made "perfect conditions" a criteria to run her in every race up til now, then I don't see why they should change.  

It does take something away from the specialness of breaking the record, I agree, but I am unaware of any "conditions" to calling it a record other than the fact of winning 17 in a row.  (Perhaps there should be?)  Until then, she deserves her chance at the glory and it appears that her people are just following their usual criteria to stacking the deck in her favor.  Isn't that all part of the game?  I'm sure when she finally runs...if perchance she doesn't have her gameface on, and is defeated, her connections will be sporting enough to realize that that is all part of the game, too.

I don't see how it's any different from scratching any other horse any other day because of an off track.

There is a huge difference in an off track and a corresponding danger with some horses.

The way a particular horse hits the ground and their stride can mean it is very dangerous to run on an off track. To some it matters  not and to some it helps.

When safety is a concern there should be no questions asked.

I at first was upset about her scratching and thought through the same lines of thought as you, but then I thought that if my horse was about to make history and had never run on or for that much even trained often on a muddy track--then I would wait for another day.  And, I for one do not want to see another filly down, or horse, ever again (and yes, I know that that is not possible or nor  reasonable).  If he was fearful for Peppers Pride and the bad track then he did the right thing.  I can await her number 17 victory!  I am with you girl.

I enjoyed reading your comments about Pepper's Pride.  Of course we all know that the class level is much different than Cigar, Citation, etc., but winning 16 in a row is hard to do even if you're running in your own backyard.

However, I agree with the owner and trainer for scratching her.  She's never run on a sloppy track and naturally, they want to win, so why ask her to do something she's never done.

I can guarantee you if she had run and lost then everyone would be saying they shouldn't have run her on a sloppy track.

I hope she breaks the record and adds a few more wins to go with it.  As I mentioned, there's a huge class difference between Pepper's Pride, Cigar, Citation, Hallowed Dreams and Mr. Frisky, but I commend the Owner and Trainer for not kneeling to the pressure to run. After all, just the race before a horse was vanned off the track.  

Best of Luck to PEPPER'S PRIDE

I really must disagree with you on this one.  Although neither one of us (or anyone else for that matter) is privy to the real reason Pepper's Pride was scratched, I think we must take Mr. Marr's explanation at face value and assume he was acting in the best interest of his horse.

I The connections of any racehorse owe it to the horse to care for her, protect her and look out for her well being to the very best of their ability.  I think so many horemen fail on this level, and the result is that horseracing has a huge image problem.

How good would it have been for "the sport" had a mare seeking to break a record held by Cigar sustained a potentially life ending injury on the track?  Not good for racing.

The most "sporting" thing we can do as horsemen is put the well being of these magnificent animals first and foremost, and if this was even part of the reason Pepper did not run, then God bless em!!  

Speaking of "sporting" I would be quite interested to know your opinion on Curlin's connections dodging the Breeder's cup.  If you have already addressed this, my apologies as I am new to your blog.

I believe Joel Marr used sound judgement in scratching Peppers Pride. And especially with the number of breakdowns we see in racing to begin with, and the public alarm this has generated, safety and caution must always come first. The connections of the other horses who did run, could have scratched as well, but they chose not to. That is an individual decision.

As you said, a horse had to be vanned off in the race just prior to the Lincoln H. I would be awfully nervous if I had a horse who had never run on an off-track. I personally wouldn't criticize any horseman for doing what Marr did, especially since I'm not a horseman myself. I commend him.

Records are fine, and being sporting is fine, but the horse's safety comes first. Whether or not Marr was also concerned about losing isn't even the point. He was obviously concerned about the potentially higher risk of injury. And since you said "Although I do not know [Marr and Allen], I am sure they are respected horsemen," I suggest they be given the benefit of the doubt.

Jason, I'm emailing you from Ruidoso Downs. It had been raining here off and on for days leading up to the race. We had 8in I believe overnight plus we were just recovering from a flood not long before, things were still somewhat in a mess. I believe we had over 24 inches in a very short period of time who knows how waterlogged everything is? This situation isn't just rain on a race day, this has been an ongoing ordeal for over a month. Some people even doubted whether we would be ready for the All American. It started raining on race day yesterday. I don't know if you've ever been to RD but it's down in a little valley, I've seen it when horses went down on the turn in the slop. I think if it hadn't rained on the repaired track Joel might have run Pepper.He spoke with the jock who rode his horse in an earlier race and was told it was slick. I've known Gerald, Joel's dad, forever am well acquainted with his other family members and have known Joel for his entire life, they are all excellent horsemen and Joel is a competitor, was in rodeo and is in racing. He is what all of those outside the industry are calling for, a person who cares first and foremost about the equines in his care. He is a hands-on trainer and works long and hard. Pepper has been the horse of a lifetime for Joel, he has a lot of good horses but what non QH can win the amount of money in NM that she has won? I think he did the right thing, being present made me think so, knowing Joel made me KNOW so. I almost think Carl would've been better served to save Heartswideopen for another day even though the slop doesn't affect the QH'a as much. I can only imagine the outcry if Pepper had gone down in the race, if anything had happened to any other horse the outcry wouldn't have been nearly as severe, same story as usual with the radicals, the bigger the race the more attention it garners for them if and when something happens. I plan to congratulate him and Theresa on his decision as soon as I see them.

The focus should be about the horses safety, not about records.The horse will be well and can get that record anytime. Good judgement.

I agree with you completely. The others who hold that record, didn't back out when the odds were against them or when things didn't go their way. Look at last years BBC. Was there a tragic injury that year and all years before, yes, but the best of the best still went to post, when they had HOY at risk. PP should've ran, her connections owed it to racing. Would there have been disappointmen if she lost, yes, but honestly everybody, even the greats, loose a couple. So just to let PP connections know, if you loose once you are still in good company.

I hear what you are saying, but in my humble opinion I think they did the right thing by the horse.  This isn't a surprise in regards to how she is managed.  They have always avoided the slop so why should it be any different for the record-breaking race.  I think its good that they stepped back and didn't get caught up in record fever.  I want to see her run but I can wait for another day.

Injury and losing, I believe they both came into play. I could be wrong but I think all her races have been on dry, good to fast tracks. After sixteen races, they will not take that chance of trying something new while going for the record. Your right about the talent level, and your also right about what an acomplishment. So no matter, what a wonderful, winning horse!

Pepper's Pride's owners don't "owe the sport" anything. They owe it to Pepper to do what's best for her, and that's what they did. It's my understanding that they've always scratched her from wet tracks, so this is nothing new or shocking. She obviously doesn't like wet tracks, so why risk her record? They've protected their horse and her reputation. That's the best under the circumstances. They have no obligation to anyone but themselves and their horse.

This is great and all but you have to remember that Pepper's Pride has NEVER raced on an off track.

That is why she keeps getting scratched. They've stated that this is not the time to be testing whether or not she'll take to it or not.

I'm glad that her owners decided not to race her on an off-track. Those of us who witnessed the death of Eight Belles, though the track that day was "OK," do not ever want to see a horse injured or vanned off the track.

Sportsmanship is one thing, but when it comes to horses who have no say in the matter, I say let's err on the safe side, even though people will inevitably question the judgment or sportsmanship of the decision-maker.

We fans are growing more intolerant of the break-downs.

No, Pepper's Prize is no Cigar, but all of us out here love her and want the very best for her.

I agree with several people here. Setting a record is probably a byproduct of their attempts to place Pepper's Pride in all the right races. Maybe they didn't let the public know she didn't like an off track. Why run her on a surface she doesn't like? They want to give her the best opportunity to win, and they're the only ones who know her the best. Perhaps it's not very sporting of them to run, regardless of track conditions or company, but you've said it yourself - the horses she shares the win streak with are all of different classes. Cigar is the class of the bunch because he ran at the highest levels and won 16 straight. Pepper's Pride is just a decent horse who's just better than the competition she's been facing. Her connections are not obligated to put her in open company. Perhaps after the 17th win, they might consider it, as she would be the lone record holder.

It is a bit frustrating that she hasn't been running in a while, though...

I had the same thoughts when I heard she was scratched.  It was a very unsporting gesture.

Jason ... what about all the fans that showed up to watch history ? To hell with them and scratch the horse?

Once again the fans take it on the nose but hey they're only fans after all.  This is a very big deal to me it speaks to the heart of the sport. Did the owner and trainer care more because they scratched her?  Crazy...nuts.. run the horse and go for the record. This is like Jess Jackson not running Curlin because he is not sure about the track surface... Monkey Poo ! Owners and trainers owe nothing to the sport or fans ???? what a bunch of garbage no wonder the sport is in such dire straights.

LDP and Jason, I respectfully disagree with you. My friends are in Ruidoso, they say it's a quagmire. LDP what purpose would it serve to run PP and risk her being injured, the Eight Belles all over again. Plus she was the high profile horse in the race, not any of the others. I think my question is if track officials wanted her to run so bad why didn't they schedule the race earlier on the card, it usually rains there later in the day from what I've been told or in the very early morning hours. My friend from NM who is friends with Joels' brother has told me all about Joel Marr and said he has been involved with horses his entire 40+ years, I don't think you can let him know anything about "loosing" or losing for that matter. If you had read the post by katsan that would've given you some insight as to what is really going on down there with the track the weather etc and what Joel Marr is all about, she's not the first person I've heard say this. Who are we to tell someone how to handle a horse that we know NOTHING about? Apparently PP has never even trained over a wet surface, from what I have been told by those who know Mr. Marr. Maybe she's one of those that walks over the wet ground like she's on eggshells. I think we need to stop second guessing the people who work with these animals every day and are the ones who face the consequences when something goes wrong, while we sit in our own homes and tsk tsk over it.

Thanks Katsan for the inside view on the horse being scratched. You have to respect the trainers call. He alone knows the horse better than anyone.Is it sporting, I don't know for sure but there's been worse calls made with so called better horses in the last two months.

I find it interesting that many of the people here are ok with the decision on merits of "safety."  Well, there were 9 thoroughbred races run on Sunday at Ruidoso, and there were only 8 scratches among 66 entrants, so were the connections of the other 58 horses doing wrong by their horses by running?  Of course not.  This wasn't about safety...it was about losing.  

Jason,

I was not aware of the 14 breakdowns in a month at Penn National, so I have to plead ignorance on this. Now that you've brought it to my attention, I'm appalled. Anytime I see a horse break down, no matter what the level, I hurt inside. Every horse counts.

Having said that, I think you're being very unfair to say that we're "overwhelmed with the issue of safety in horse racing." Especially when some of the most prominent people in the industry have sat before a U.S. Congressional sub-committee on this very issue. Especially when I've read comments that soundness is being sacrificed for speed. Especially when we've witnessed, with tear-filled eyes, on national television, the breakdowns of Barbaro, Pine Island, George Washington, and Eight Belles, not to mention all the unsung heroes, the hard knocking claimers, who put their lives on the line all the time for our enjoyment and somebody's monetary gain. Especially since groups outside of racing are screaming for reforms. Especially since these horses have no choice in whether they race or not.

I think most people realize that injuries are part of the sport and fatalities can never be completely eliminated. But the effort to strive for an injury-free environment must never been abandoned. And when there is a greater possibility of risk, every horseman and owner has a right to make a decision on what's best for their horse, decisions that in my opinion, need to be respected.

People whom you say are "overwhelmed with the issue of safety" are fed up with seeing horses die. The industry needs these people. I certainly am one of them. We are the people who love equine competition as much as anyone, but want it to be as safe as possible for all horses and their riders as well. To feel that safety should come first, isn't being "overwhelmed." It's putting the horses first, the sport first, and it's using good common sense.

seems track is a mess...when they are yours you do what you want with them...hope she does break that record...a hard knocking filly & EXPOSURE for our sport...Long Live The Queen!!!

Jason,

Why does any horseman enter up? Why did horsemen in Saratoga enter and then decide they had to scratch? Hope springs eternal in the optimistic heart of the horseman.  More important to me is why would someone scratch a horse from a race with a huge purse that they had to qualify in a heat for?

The management at the track had  the track in fairly decent condition, it at least wasn't slick and Joel was going to make every attempt to run her. Of course the main purpose was to have it so they could run the AA Derby yesterday and the Futurity today.  90% of the people are here for the big QH races, not the TB races  Guess Joel was hoping like we all do that things would work out, hope for the best prepare for the worst.  Usually we have a brief respite from the rain in late August, not always but sometimes, we sure were hoping, we‘re sick of the rain. Sometimes we pray for it to come others we pray for it to stop.  Strange as it sounds the two hurricanes and the unexpected force of one causes havoc with the weather here.  Today the weather is beautiful here and the wind has the track fast. Three weeks ago it was a mud hole here and they did amazing things to get the track into shape. Maybe Joel should have taken her to Albuquerque, but there is a lot of dissatisfaction with that track for various reasons, and they've had a bunch of rain up there as well as tornadoes in nearby towns. It‘s nice here today and rainy up there so who knows. He doesn't want to run her in just any race, maybe he should get track officials to write a race especially for her ala Big Brown. Not sure I've ever seen that done in this circuit. He was hoping for decent weather and she wants to run, from what he says. She's never run on an off track, and I don't believe she ever even worked on one, not a mudder I guess. But just as Curlin and Big Brown have been given a pass to choose the surfaces they run on I think she deserves that as well.  Yes Draynay, not only are Curlin's folks choosing what surface he runs on, your precious BB folks are doing just what you are DERIDING the other TWO FOR DOING. Get over this obsession with Big Brown!!! Joel plans to run her at Zia in Hobbs, Lord willing.  Just as you are dismayed by the situation at Penn National, we are dismayed at the fact despite all the best efforts of the track one of our own was not able to shine in the public spotlight. But that spotlight is not important if it means risking an injury to Pepper who has a heart as big as can be.

We get second guessed if we run them, we get second guessed if we don’t run them. Heck we even get second guessed if we run them and say they’ve been doing well and we expect good things from them.

As far as losing, Joel has said that is always a possibility but has said he will not run the horse on an off track for safety reasons, he owes that to her. Joel the undersized kid that roped calfs bigger than him in Junior rodeo and was nothing but try, being afraid of losing? Ha, I laugh at that.

P.S.

I'm going up to watch the AA Futurity, Clarence Scharbauer owner of the famous Alysheba has a long shot in, won the AA consolation in the last race.

My opinion is that they did the right thing for their horse, for that day and don't really need my second-guessing them.  Many have already posted the same sentiments in a better way, but I am glad that they chose not to run her on a sloppy track when they have said as long ago as last month (when the race flooded out due to the previous hurricane, she's never run on an off track.  They didn't owe me anything and my respect for them grows because they put the horse first.

They were right to scratch her. Who cares about a record? If he feared injury because he know his horse, then he did the responsible thing. Maybe the owners of George Washington should have done the same. Maybe the other horses in the race are not as picky about the surface. There will be other races. Records are only important to humans; horses could care less.

Jason, I'm not saying that's the way I think. I'm saying that's the way the people who love to attack horse racing like they did Larry Jones, think. You really think if one of those others was vanned off if would have meant anything to those who live to attack horse racing? I love horse racing. I don't like to see any horse injured no matter who or what.

Jason,

There are those of us who love racing but who still cry when any horse is injured. I'm one of them. Had PP run and been injured I doubt that the sport would have recovered. It is on thin footing, as things stand.

Peppers Pride was entered for this race a long time ago.  The race had to be postponed due to flooding at the track.  Rain has continued, she has trained on the wet track.  Her trainer waited to scratch her until he got a report from the jock on how the track actually was.  I believe that the trainer and owner made the correct decision based upon the information that they had.  Furthermore, I am glad that they did not just jump to conclusions and scratch her Sunday morning when they realized that they were dealing with an off track.  The right day will come and she will give it her best shot.  

HI JASON:

AGAIN,ANOTHER GREAT BLOG! CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME THE STATUS OF THE HORSE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT WAS VANNED OFF BEFORE THE RACE PEPPER WAS GOING TO BE IN? I AGREE A MILLION PER CENT W/YOU REGARDING THAT ALL HORSES LIVES ARE IMPORTANT. I'VE SAID,IN MY OPINION A $5000 CLAIMER IS AS IMPORTANT AS A "SUPER HORSE".

People, would you just quit! Good lord have mercy, you'd think these horses were made of glass with how you talk. Don't get me wrong, but don't horses race on off tracks all the time? Horses break down, it is and always will be a part of racing. I watch Barbaro break down in the opening stages of the Preakness, I watched that same year Pine Island stumble breaking her leg coming out of the turn in the BCD. Then last year while watching Curlin waltz to victory in the BBC, i also watch GW being eased, only to see the sickening pictures of his twisted fetlock. Lastly, I saw a yearling filly at my stable that I had helped train, and whom i love be put down because of a broken cannon, just because she was playing in the pasture and took a bad step. So as you can see breakdowns happen in all aspects of horse, each sport with horses has that risk. I cried during all of those losses, but im still here, I still watch those races. The difference is I don't think about how at any moment a horse may take a wrong step, or that i may see another horse eased. I concentrate on the fact that this is a thrilling sport, with strong, powerful, beautiful athletes, doing what they are bred to do and what they love.  

LDP,

Well this is still America and just like you can choose to run your business whatever way you choose, so can we. We who train at the race track know as well or better than any who does not, what can happen and we take those chances every day. I'm just not about to judge someone who felt he was doing what was in the best interest of the horse that HE not I, not you or anyone else knows best. Obviously if people like my other half, the trainers who have been on here before didn't take these chances every day there wouldn't be anyone for you all to criticize pro or con. Like I said before we're danged if we do and danged if we don't.

Also springsmom, you're right that race was the one postponed. A friend called me and said TVG had a good story on what the track looked like back then.

Jason, I appreciate your point of view, I personally am not sure what I would have done. Sort of depends on just how much the mare hates the mud. The race was written a long time ago and postponed. I think the guy said at the time he wouldn't run her if it was wet. I also heard through the grapevine that most didn't think they would even have racing there and were thinking about having their big quarter horse race at Hobbs or Sunland Park.

Art, I assure you REAL HORSEMEN do accept these as legitimate. I understand that Mr. Marr said if it was so easy why doesn't it happen every day? Some horsemen think enough of that circuit to run in the Winstar at Sunland Park and Stan Fulton runs a lot of his horses there as does Dee Hubbard and John T.L. Jones Jr. In fact instead of cutting purses like so many others do, Sunland raises theirs several times a year and it's looking more attractive to some of us in other circuits to run there. Your argument is sort of like the Russell Baze argument that Pincay debunked. Just out of curiosity how REAL of a horseman are you and what circuit do you run your horses in?

I think that the owners of Peppers Pride made the right decision to scratch her because they didn't want anything to happen to her and were being cautious. As for the other horses in the field I'm okay with them not scratching because although I'm not sure there were probably mudders in the field along with horses that have never tried the mud which I believe Peppers Pride falls into that catergory so instead of risking it they made the right decision to scratch her.

Doesn't really matter. Pepper's Pride is a joke.

Talking about tough races- throw her up again Proud Spell, Ginger Punch or Music Note and see which lady wins. That would be a good 17th victory. Hahaha. Yeah right.

As far as 17 race win streak goes, the horse that really deserves the applause and attention is Deweycheatumnhowe. Top of his class, only Hambeltonian winner to be unbeaten, etc. And he's actually WON 17. Not almost - one. He's not

this joke of a horse 'only ever raced in New Mexico and hasn't even won her seventeenth race'  Pepper's Pride.

I'd like to add - I'm a thoroughbred racing fan, too!

If i remember correctly the trainer had said in the past that he would not run Peppers Pride on a off track so it was not a surprise to me when she was scratched

I think it's just fine they chose not to run her.  If she wins her next race and they want to put an asterisk next to her record that indicates she won 17 races in a row (*all on tracks in good condition), then let it be.  It's still a phenomenal record.

Sorry , but i will respectfully disagree with you. Having the mare's best interest was what they were doing. they don't care about records, money, or fame. if they wanted to do that, they would have upgraded her long ago. They obviously had this nagging feeling, and went with it. i was really bummed that they scratched her, but hearing the reasons, i finally decided to go with them on it. they've done a great job with her so far, and they know this horse better than the racing industry. *kudos*

Springsmom, I agree with most of what you said but all of the mares works were over a fast track. I'm not around all the time but that is what the form said and what I heard from those who are. I believe Joel was quoted in a local newspaper saying he didn't want to work her on an off track or run her on one.

Art, I think most horsemen respect her winning record. We all have friends in other circuits and most of them I've talked to have expressed that. If you are a horseman and that is your take on it, I will respect it. If not then how do you know how real horsemen feel. Real horsemen exist in every circuit, they train their horses basically the same as the ones in the big circuits, what a sweeping insult by you. I don't know of any REAL horsemen that would insult their brethren like that, other than one who has been cussed and discussed on here. Also I would have to say that a mare who has lifetime earnings of 861 thousand plus would be a worthwile mare to have and not many would sneeze at that no matter what the circuit. I don't think they are giving away that kind of money to cheap claimers and the mare has run with as much as 127lbs. I also seem to remember Baffert bringing Real Quiet down here only to get his head handed to him and the purses are pretty decent with the casino money kicking in.

I'll try to find out the status of Fred's horse that was vanned off, kind of a hard question to ask.

I have been to Ruidoso Downs many a time and have seen great races there... You can not blame anyone for scratching there horse on an off track and for now anyway since the track has had so much rain this year it would be hard to tell what kind of shape it is in. But I can bet that Mr. Hubbard had it back to the best that it could be considering all of the rain.  Pepper will have her day soon enough to break the record.

jj, comparing apples and oranges, we're talking about races run by TB's not pacers or quarterhorses or whatever.

Also throw Ginger Punch, Proud Spell etc up against Rags to Riches in the Belmont. Better yet, you take your homebred like Mr. Allen, run it in ANY circuit win 16 races and come back and tell us how easy it was. Otherwise it's pure conjecture.  

She's never run a race on an off track & there maybe a reason why she hasn't. Her trainer would know her better then anyone else. Yes it's disppointing that she didn't run but, I wouldn't be to hard on her. The top 3 yr old did not want to run at Saratoga & chose Monmouth instead because (of a heat issue) it was cooler in N.J.. The Horse of the Year is not sure he wants to run over an unproven artificial surface. Even though  Peppers Pride is not in the same class as the above two horses it is still her trainers & owners obligation to look out for the animal's best interest. Which they did.  

all these comments about how it is not sporting to have scratched PP need to realize that it is up to the owner and trainer what is best for THEIR horse.  while we may feel she belongs to the fans it is ultimeately their decision.  if you feel diferentlt then put up some money buy a horse and take out your trainers licence and try to win 16 in a row.  Good call Mr. Marr

I've known Joel for years and watched him train and after a summer with Lots of rain he MUST have Known that she Did Not train well at All over muddy tracks>>> With the Record on the line I applaud him for not Running Her>>>> Bottom Line she must HATE the Mud as I do in my Handicapping!!

Jason,

With all due respect, I must disagree with you.  I refer you back to a Breeders Cup race of a few years ago when the connections of the magnificient Spook Express stated on TVG well before the race, that she did not handle that type of footing very well, but that they would run her anyway.  She slipped and fell on the turn, suffering a catastrophic injury, and they had to kill her on the track.  

To say that Peppers Pride had to run on the same track conditions that everyone else ran on is obviously true; however, some horses thrive on off tracks and others do not.  I believe that each horse's connections need to make those decisions based on what is best for the horse.  Each horse is an individual, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Bravo! to anyone who puts their horse first - ahead of just another win or a North American record.

Let me start by saying to all the critics where are your state bred horses running for 17 in a row? People say shes not the class of these other horses will maybe not but there are thousands of horses a day that try state bred competition and fail!! Also if you could read between the lines you would understand that in New Mexico there are huge incentives for the owner breeder and stallion to run with only state bred compition which Allen has a handle on all three!! She has never been tested on a off track why would you take the risk of using one of her starts that might be questionable? Remember the duribility of a race horse today.  

If they wanted to scratch I don't think that was poor sportsmanship. They are going to race her again anyway so what difference does it make if she misses that race? None I think. Any horse that can win that many races is a great horse - don't care where she raced.

Whoever is puttting Peppers Pride in the same league as Cigar etc. would do well to let that go. Peppers Pride is going for a number that a lot of people outside of her connections have put a great deal of pressure on them for.  They have repeatedly said, and meant, she has never run on an off track and won't do so.  They are not trying to race her as a great race horse whose obligation is to tackle anything and overcome!! She's going for a number in the same way she has won the other races.  She absolutely does not need to live up to the standards given the great ones with this kind of winning streak.  I say, let her run when the conditions are right, and let her win her 17th...and let it be at the level they have raced her, and let it be exactly what it is....a horse we've come to love and root for, at a much lower level of racing than where we usually focus much of our attention.

Yes,  if Pepper was my horse I would have definitely scratched her. I'd love her too much to run her on a muddy, nasty track and risk having something happen to her. Actually, if she were mine I would retire her now and train her for a second career as a show horse.  This way the public would be able to see her for many many years to come and I think she would make a nice hunter prospect.  By the way,  the hunter fences are small/low, she wouldn't have to put much effort into getting over one so she could do this for many years without risk of catastrophic injury.

I agree with scratching her.  If that were my horse going for a record like that, I would have scratched her too rather than run her on a surface she may not be able to handle.

This mare is a homebred, I get the feeling from listening to Mr. Allen and Joel Marr that she's like a family member. How many times have we applauded someone for 'taking care' of a horse that has been very good to them? All of you dismissing this as just a state bred going against the weaklings to set a record, take into consideration what this means to the owner and trainer. The Marrs are a fixture in NM horseracing and have been for close to 50 years, the breeder gets the additional NM bred fees and this mare has won a ton of money for them. I've been at racetracks all over the country, big, small and almost non existent or gone from the landscape forever and this record is a big deal no matter how you look at it. The mare is running against the best in her circuit, almost every filly or mare in the race has won over 100g's the only one who hadn't was the mare who was the eventual winner. I'd like to know how many of you have any kind of horse who has won anywhere close to that? Like Ro Parra said about Student Council on Steve's blog  "What I do know is that to me, he is “THE HORSE OF A LIFETIME” and that I may never own another one like him.   Therefore, I am just “enjoying the ride”"

I'm sure that Peppers Pride's connection are enjoying their ride as well, why try to derail it with pettiness.

I congratulate them for putting the horse's welfare first. Too many in horse racing are only in it for the money, the excitement and the glory. I have always felt that the horse's interest has to come first and foremost. They can go for the record another day.

I agree completely with Pepper's Pride's connnections with the decision to scratch.  I am sure they wanted to go for the record and were disappointed.  They put their filly FIRST, as it should be.  Horses scratch every day, especially in stakes races and it is a pity more dont scratch when conditions are going to put their horses in jeopardy.  One minute the pundits are crying bout owners and trainers having no regard for their horses and the next they are screaming about scratching - you can't have it both ways.  Good luck to Pepper's Pride, go get them next time.  

We have raced horses on the track at Ruidoso Downs and when it is muddy and slippery, it is like glue.  I don't blame them at all for scratching her.

Fine  - put Rags to Riches up against Proud Spell, Music Note - I'm not saying they shouldn't beside it being an impossibility. I don't see a problem with that. I don't see what point you're trying to make.

If a harness horse winning 17 straight isn't that big of a deal, then why hasn't it been done before in a hambeltonian winner? He's run at 6 different tracks. He'll probably make 5 or so starts before the end of the year.

Pepper's Pride - only ever run in one state. If they're going to put an asterik next to her name for only running on good going, they might as well add 'only ever run in New Mexico.'

Pepper's Pride is in no way comparable to Cigar. Cigar could still trounce her in his shape at KHP.

With the harness horse information I've got now, I'm surprised more people aren't fans of harness horses! They race twice monthly, if not more. Big Brown has 7 starts in his career so far - to Dewey's 17 - same age and everything. Big Brown has possibly two or three more starts to his name. Dewey - 5 or more. What a joke. Now I'm bummed out.

They were right to scratch.  Her safety is more important than any record.  George Washington is another horse that should have been scratched off a terrible track -- look what happened to him.

Too much emphasis on records lately, anyway -- including the downplayed one for track breakdowns/deaths.  After Big Brown and Curlin's most recent efforts, people seemed down on them that they merely won.  We don't need to break a track record or a horse's record in every race -- let's just get those horses back to the barn in one piece, hopefully to race again.

And, she doesn't need to be compared to the fillies and mares that win the graded races -- they are competing in their element, and she's competing in her own milieu.  Everybody was happy when Russell Baze became the winningest jockey last year -- had he ridden a lot in the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont, Breeders Cup?  It was an event to be celebrated, for that person even within context.  Same deal for Pepper's Pride, if and when she makes it!

Katsan,

I am not telling the connections of pp how to run their operation, or how to run or train or do anything with any of their horses. All i'm saying is that every other racehorse that day was taking the exat same risk that she was taking and didn't scratch. I'm also not saying i am all knowing about all there is to know about racing. I do happen to know that not just in racing, but in life you always have risks, and you always will. I show jump horses, which jumping i can tell you is just as big a risk as racing. The horse can refuse, sliding through the jump, can land and slip and break a leg, or just from the sheer stress a jumper's legs recieve, they can break or fracture bones. Basicly what i'm trying to say is you can't have everything handed to you, not every track is going to be fast, not every race is going to play to your expectations. That's the fun of the sport, lord, that's the fun in any sport or hobbie or any business that makes you happy. And people like that take the excitement out of the sport that we all love, and enjoy. If they can't take the risk with PP that they would with some 5000 dollar claimer then why race at all? If PP had run in the mud and won that would've made the victory all the more special, and if she lost, then well hey she gave it a fantastic try and is still a fabulous mare for getting 16 consecutive wins. That is my point you can agree or disagree, but you won't sway my oppinion.

I disagree with you. By far the right decision was made!  This was in the best interest of the horse.  I salute all of her connections.  

Whatever: Your comment about taking a racehorse that's made over 800 thou and retire her makes no sense to me.When you raise and run these animals for a living you run it as a business. If anything she'll be a broodmare when she retires not a saddle horse.

Cindy,

I was there on Saturday and as katsan who is based in Ruidoso said it was not sticky it was slick as we know running on the sticky tracks just makes them feel like they're running with combat boots on, the slick track is dangerous. The peope faulting Joel for entering then scratching, well the race was a postponed one from the time of the floods and they had a few nice dry days or just the light mountain showers that come that time of year. Monday was beautiful and one friend from there said it was dry and fast on several days about a week before.

LDP I respect your outlook, I also know it's very hard for a non race track person to understand. On one hand we're villified if we run a horse and something happens, on the other hand we're questioned and second guessed if we don't run one when we just feel like something could go wrong. I don't think any trainer on here has said they would have done what Joel did, but we respect his decision since it is HIS horse that he knows. You don't know the horse and it's idiocinracies, neither do we and we train pretty close to his barn. As far as the class of the horse, to the owner of the horse there sometimes isn't a difference but most times there is. A $5000 claimer, you stand to lose that horse every single time you run it, rarely are people overly attached to that horse because chances are it's not THEIR homebred it's one they claimed to begin with. I've seen those types change barns every time they run. The risks, well as someone said on here a long time ago jumpers can't be compared to race horses going 40 miles an hour with the unpredictability of the other horses and humans in the race and the  biggest difference between jumpers and race horses is the amount of money being bet on them. A lot of people were betting on the mare for posterity and how angry would they have been if Joel knowingly ran a mare that would possibly have walked in the race? Then everyone would have been crucifying him for running a mare that he KNEW would not run on the slick surface, and it was very slick. With you it's a sport, a hobby maybe even a business although I'm not sure how big of a business horse jumping really is, but racing is Joel's livliehood along with a lot of us. I just don't think you can compare two totally different types of horse disciplines. You don't have millions of dollars being bet or thousands of people watching your every move like we do, most just waiting for us to do something they can pounce on.  I don't recall seeing a huge public outcry, hate mail etc after the HBO show on event jumping. Most of us race trackers are pretty big risk takers, every single day we risk life and limb several times a day. Like another trainer on here said to someone else it's like comparing apples and oranges. I also think if the guy who pays the bills doesn't want to run the horse then that's what we do, my guess is they Joe and Joel discussed it beforehand. Now if all the people on here want to start paying training, vet,farrier

bills and nomination fees to these big races then I'm sure you could get one of your own and call the shots.

jj

Never did compare her to Cigar. What I said is it's a difficult feat no matter what circuit you run in.

Also, didn't say your harness deal wasn't impressive, just said it is irrelevant in this blog.

The comparison to Ginger Punch and Rags that was a theoretical comparison in TB horse racing and they could've seen what Ginger could have done in the Belmont when she was 3 nothing was stopping them. Except maybe the decision that it wasn't in the best interest of the mare to run her...

I still say, get yourself a TB colt, filly, mare, gelding or horse and run it anywhere, win 16 in a row against state breds in futurities,derbies,ungraded/

overnight stakes and handicaps heck even an allowance or two then tell me how easy it was. Better yet

let everyone on this board tell you how, where and when to run maybe they'll even help you pay for it all.

jj: Dewey's streak is amazing but he's a standardbred not a thoroughbred so you can't compare Peppers Pride to Deweycheatumnhowe. And who cares Peppers Pride only races against NM breds, it matters on how you perform on that day, not who you face.

Jason: Do you know the condition of Comfy Lead?

I also see were you are coming from katsan, and i respect it very much. I will adimt i am young and very rash, as i have said before. Please do not make the mistake in thinking i am a cold heartless person, who sees only cold hard cash in a horse. I love horses, i have since i was about four years old. I have horses of my own, one i planned on keeping my whole life, but in the end had to sell, and i still miss her. I will admit jumping is not my passion in horses, it is the racing, and feeling the wind against me as i fly along at a gallop. The horse I sold tought me that, she was my first and favorite by far an i will love her forever. I once wanted to be a jockey, but an injury a couple years ago restricts me to only be able to ride as i do now, and even then it still causes me pain. I will never give up riding though, or may i say horses, I love them too much to do so. I plan on becoming a trainer or an owner of thoroughbreds one day, so that i myself can enjoy my own horses doing what they love. I know it costs, what aspect in horses doesn't? Lol. I don't mind though. I love racing and horses too much to back out because of a couple challenges.

WOW all these Monday morning quarterbacks. Majority of whom have never trained a TB race horse, didn't know what the track conditions were trying to tell the trainer what he should do with the horse. Kind of like someone said on here or one of the boards I'm on said that's like you guys telling my Dr. how to remove my appendix. The mare didn't run, hopefully she'll run at Zia, she'll run against NM Breds and when you all have long forgotten any of this, her connections will still hold it dear in their hearts and will still be counting their money. Me, I'm just glad my neighbor down the street doesn't try to tell me how to run my company the way you guys think you can tell other people how to do their business. Neighbor Bill is a fan of the work I do, just has no clue how to do it, sort of like those on here who don't own or train a thoroughbred race horse in training.

Huh, you're right.  Dewey's record is MUCH more impressive.  And you're delusional if you don't think it matters who you face.  Peppers Pride is beating up on the same sorry group of mares each time she steps foot on the track.  There's no way of dodging that.  She's the biggest fish in a tiny pond.  I read an article that there are approximately 400 older fillies & mares who she is even eligible to race against.  And if you're new to racing, that isn't a lot.  Considering about 95% of those are 4k claimers, I can't become impressed with her streak.  When Cigar and Citation, and even Mister Frisky were running, they had to be better than easily 100,000 horses.  If you owned a horse in 1995, you could run him/her against Cigar.  You knew where Cigar was running, and you were free to try and knock him off.  The only way you can go and take on Peppers Pride is if you have an older filly/mare, bred in NM (there are probably more racehorses bred in Guam than New Mexico).  

There's a reason that minor league records don't take precedence over major league ones.  If a minor league ballplayer drives in 191 runs, Hack Wilson's record of 190 still stands.  If a minor leaguer gets a hit in 57 straight games, Joe DiMaggio's record still stands.  I don't see why horse racing feels the need to be different.  

You reach a good point when saying it's not who you face - to an extent that's true - no one remembers the names of the horses Secretariat demolished. But at the same time - Pepper's Pride is NOT at the same level Cigar or Citation were. She's getting a bit more praise than she deserves.

I understand (obviously) how harness and flat racing are different. I wasn't comparing the two horses, I'm just saying - Pepper's Pride racing in NEW MEXICO in NEW MEXICAN  BRED RACES is getting waaaayyyy more attention/press than this 17 streak Hambeltonian winner doing the job right. I think that's a terrible, awful shame.

Not many people have noticed how fast these harness horses are getting.

The 2007 BC Mile's 1st quarter fraction went in 24.26. Harness horses can get that quarter  of a mile two seconds later. Not too impressive besides the fact they're trotting yo. They don't finish up quite as fast but you'll notice these guys are setting new world records all the time.

Sealed racetracks, sometimes called "wet fast"--are usually lightning fast and they ARE dangerous for your horse to run on! That filly is ALL CLASS--she tries everytime and no-way would I run her last Sunday! Horses that try, horses that win race after race after race are bonified stars! When I was in tenth grade, living in San Francisco in the early seventies, there was "Hap Logue", a 2K Starter horse who had a huge win streak---He wasn't Cougar II or Ack Ack, but he was a star nontheless!! I would NEVER run a star on a rock hard sealed track! The sandy New York tracks have some cushion, yet I'm leary of rolled tracks, a relatively new thing in racing to keep the track dry.... I ask: Why do you remove the cushion? Does the track not have a cushion for a reason?

jj:You know why no one really cares about Dewey's amazing record because he's a harness racer and there are basically no harness racing fans.

Art: I agree racing in New Mexico is like racing in the minor leagues and she probably couldn't do it in NY, CA or KY and not against talent like Cigar but it's not her falt that she's a NM bred instead of a NY or KY bred where there is more competition for her. But I do think that her streak is impressive but not as impressive as Cigar's or Citation's who did against G1 horses and not NM breds.

Okay folks, JJ and Art. Back up a minute and read the following:

BloodHorse.com/Blogs/Horse Racing/ Thoroughbred Breeding/Thoroughbred Sales/Pedigree/Breeders Cup/Triple Crown

Horse racing news, breaking news, breeding and sales coverage from the Thoroughbred industry's leading source.

This is not the Harness racing industry's leading source. This is not the QH industry's leading source, they have their own. Give you opinions but don't hammer another industry. Most of the people on here that are defending this mare are REAL THOUROUGBRED industry people and if they think it's legitimate, I don't think I'm going to question them when I couldn't and don't do their job. Do we really think the people involved with this horse should listen to a bunch of people who will move on with their lives and to whom the whole subject means nothing more than a chance to get their unfulfilled wishes and agressions off their chests? Let's open up our lives for all those people to dissect and be hypercritical of. Jason gave an opinion. Opinions are one thing, insults against people who have never harmed you just show ignorance.

There are MANY more "cheap" horses than stakes horses, and every fans everywhere have seen that certain claimer that goes from barn to barn and wins year after year....I remember Tulsea, who was a tryer who outran his odds many a time (and I cashed)...eventually he became a classy claimer and I DO mean class!!---"Class" is not a term to be reserved for stakes horses--indeed, I've seen many GrI horses who I would say had less class than Peppers Pride--Perfect Drift, for example, a horses who found/finds more ways to lose while Peppers Pride digs in every time! This is a great year for great racing, why not celebrate this rare horse who gets it done by shear desire to win! Or corse she's not gonna beat Zenyatta/Ginger Punch/Hysterical Lady--(nice segway)...speaking of which, what if 'Ginger hangs her beautiful neck on 'Hysterical in the BC Distaff---while Zenyatta runs 2nd in The Classic? Who gets The Eclipse?? As if I didn't know you're gonna say "Ginger Punch", but remember Genuine Risk got it over Bold'N'Determined because of what she did v males.....it's just that Zenyatta looked so powerful at Del Mar you wonder if she could just be the best horse of them all--she looked like Forego---she quickened like no horse I've seen in years--I mean, Big Brown has the feet...Curlin looks off form...Col John will be there...but at 1 1/4, who else? In a year of brilliance, why not see if Zenyatta is one of the All-Time Greats.....    

Bighorsefan is absolutely correct. Just one observation: since you're looking back at Cigar's 16 wins, just notice 3 of those wins. Twice the won the Mass Cap against mediocre competition. One one those wins he almost lost to a horse that trainer Juan Serey had just claimed for 8,500.00 (not a typo). Another, was the first Dubai Classic, created for him, against 2 americans horses that he used to beat all the time and European horses that might have been good horses, but were Turf horses. My point ? Pepper is a Monster at her level. Finding fault with any winning streak is very easy.

BIGHORSEFAN,

Great idea. I think every naysayer should list their occupation and where they perform their job so we can start comparing them and criticizing them for not doing it as well or having as good of results as someone comparable in a bigger market.

Who knows what the mare might do elsewhere? Her owner and trainer are tied closely to New Mexico so that's where they choose to run her, the NM bred incentives are pretty tempting. Me, I'd love to have a mare who'd won 861 thousand dollars in this circuit. Like I said before why don't one of you critics raise one and send her my way? The breeding fee,farm rate for the mare and then the foal,  raising the foal to age 2, breaking, training then getting her to the track, keeping her sound and healthy until age 5, my day rate, vet bills, farrier bills, jock and pony fees,our percentage when we win, nomination fees to the big races you would want YOUR superior mare to run in, shipping fees, insurance, well you'd probably end up in the negative out here. But go for it, talk is cheap the reality isn't.

LDP, good for you, I applaud you and wish you the best of luck. You have the right attitude to succeed, just need to learn that every trainer has their way of doing things and most want what's best for the horses they take care of every day. Try to get in with a big name trainer and soak in what they have to teach you or go to the race track industry program at U of A or somewhere comparable. I think just about every trainer on here or any I have heard have said they would run a filly in the Derby if she fit and would run their horses if it doesn't endanger them, if that isn't brave I'm not sure what is. There is a fine balance between doing what's best for the horse and what people want you to do and remember you'll never please everyone but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Good luck to you.

As for the rest of you on here who are demeaning and denigrating racing in NM and Peppers record. I'm trying to figure out why it is impacting you so much that you have to spew so much vitriol. Are you secretly one of the Paulson's, Mott or Bailey's? Just exactly how is this really impacting or affecting any of you long term? NM has been a starting place for some of the biggest names in racing, like Bailey, Smith, Gomez, Lukas, Asmussen, etc. In fact Steve still runs horses here frequently, at Sunland Park where the purses are bigger than they are at a lot of the tracks in Kentucky etc. So just keep talking, you sound less informed with every word you write.

To the poster who's compared Peppers Pride with more high profile horses, and who said  she's "not on the level Cigar and Citation were," well you have a right to your opinion, but I think it's unfair to compare today's horses to those of different eras, especially when you're comparing them to all-time greats. And I would mention only two or three horses in the same breath as Citation, and they're deceased.

Peppers Pride's connections never said that she was in the class of these other horses. So to even bring it up is unfair.  

Please leave the mare alone. She's a fine mare, her connections love her, they take care of her, and she's giving the fans in NM some wonderful moments. Everyone in that state is having fun with her and she's having fun. And I'm sure she's happy and sound, which are the most important things anyway.

A horse is still a horse. They're all beautiful and amazing athletes, no matter where they race. And Peppers Pride is doing extraordinary things. If people want to get excited over her, they are entitled to. I think the attention is great because it shows that exciting racing and amazing accomplishments can happen anywhere, and not just at the bigger venues with the more well known horses. This is great for the little tracks and the lesser known people and horses. They deserve the attention and it's good for racing all around. I love it.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

My, my, my.  All this bitter writing and criticisms of how to run a horse you know nothing about except for what you have read might lead one to believe you're a little jealous because you don't have horses that will do the same as Pepper. Leave her connections alone, leave her alone.  She's a great horse and a well-loved horse and I'm sure her people know what they're doing with her.  Even if they had no thought of possible injury (which I think is probably their main reason for not running her), but thought she might not win on an off track, so what?  They're doing what's best for THEIR horse.  If more people thought like they do, we would probably have fewer breakdowns on the track... I agree with Katsan 100 per cent.

C'mon now Freaked Out...ANY horse could have showed up to the Mass Cap to take on Cigar.  Any horse could have shown up to the Dubai World Cup to take on Cigar.  Any horse could have shown up to the Breeders' Cup in 1995 to take on Cigar.  Any horse could have shown up to the Donn, Jockey Club, Woodward, Oaklawn Cap, NYRA Mile, Pimlico Special, or Hollywood Gold Cup to take him on.  Whether or not "mediocre" horses showed up is quite irrelevant, given that the fact of the matter is that any horse in the world COULD have shown up.  

With Peppers Pride, very few horses can take her on.  Congratulations, she's the best filly/mare bred in a 3rd tier horse racing state.  I apologize profusely for not being excited about her connections taking the easy way out when approaching this record.  Allen Paulson could have only run Cigar in MD-bred races, but he didn't.  Like I said, Peppers Pride has proven to be the best of the NM-breds...I don't get much excitement watching her beat the same sorry group each time.  What is that proving, exactly?  We all know she's better than them...it's time for a new challenge.  

Just to clear things up, Pepper isn't like family she is family.  She is not fond of an off track but would give her all to win over one, even carrying 127 pounds, 10 more than her next rival. She will  be raced only a few more times before going to the breeding shed and to have run her on this particular day under these circumstances would not have been in her best interest even if it meant winning and breaking the record.  Hopefully, racing fans will understand but most of all hopefully, Pepper will.  She has never been scratched from a race in her career until now.  Not bad for over three years of racing.

PP: Give us a rundown on who you are thinking of breeding your super mare to. You have raised and trained a monster, congradulations! May I also say that you have managed her as good as can be done.Good luck on number 17.

HEY JJ:

 YOU THINK A HORSE THAT IS 16-0 ISN'T A SERIOUS CONTENDER? SO WHAT THAT SHE'S RACED ALL HER LIFE IN NEW MEXICO. LIKE PP'S TRAINER STATED LAST MONTH IF BEING UNDEFEATED IS SO EASY THEN WHY ISN'T ANOTHER HUNDRED HORSES IN HER POSITION? INDIVIDUALS LIKE YOURSELF WOULD FIND A WAY TO SLAM HER NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES,PERIOD!

Mike: I guess these people your referring to breathe differint air than the rest of us folks. I think some people have a higher expectation of certain things and may not see it the same way we do. There was a quote earlier from an owner saying that he was a once in a lifetime horse. Someone else brought that up as well. If you've been in the business for any length of time, you understand totally what that means. They have managed this mare very well and made money at it. That is the whole point to make a living at it. Regardless what some people think of as a heartless and cruel business, this proves otherwise enough said.

Wanda, I'm not sure if these folks on here read the racing form or even understand what they are reading,  but PP's grandsire is Fappiano, there are a ton of horses there who have some heavy duty sires and grandsires, like Storm Cat, Storm Bird, Strike Gold, Mr. Prospector and on. Pierre Amestoy of Lobo farm in KY who consigned Irish Cherry mother of Daaher and Spun Sugar at the Jan Keeneland sale had a horse in the same race, Richard Brunacini brother of the late George Brunacini who bred Flower Alley, was the breeder of another horse in the race. Joel and Mr.Allen had another mare in the race and Gerald Marr had a filly in.(grandsires Storm Cat and Strike Gold) Favorite Trick 97 HOY as a 2y.o. and Saratoga Six(Gl winner) both stood there until killed in a barn fire.

I think this idea  of 3rd tier may be a little off. If anything it's  2nd tier, especially at Sunland Park.  Not a Saratoga or some of the elite but not many are.

I hear from Jordy that Joel's brother is named Brad, not him unfortunately JM seems like a good guy.

I always respect your opinions Jason, but I have to respectfully disagree with you in this particular instance.  I think the connections made the right decision in scratching the horse because the conditions of the track were very unfavorable.  We aren't around Pepper's Pride either, so we don't know if the conditions of the track were the only reason why she was scratched.  Although, some owners even refuse to race their horses on anything other than a fast/good track because of safety issues.  And we all want racing to be as safe as possible and to see Pepper's Pride break the record.  I think the connections should be applauded for not risking the mare unnecessarily and doing right by their horse despite the public scrutiny and pressure.  The racing fans should understand because we will be able to enjoy watching her go for the record in time.    

And while she might not be racing against the competition that Cigar and Citation did, any horse that has won 16 in a row deserves the utmost respect as you said.  It is the goal of every trainer/owner to put their horses in spots that they can win.  Most become overly ambitious only to ruin the horse's career.  Look at the Triple Crown trail for instance.  How many nice horses have never raced again or never been right again after going into the TC races that they had no shot of winning?  Then look at the legendary Lost in the Fog whose connections did everything right by him, skipped the Derby, and were rewarded in a big way later on with a the Sprinter Eclipse Award (RIP Foggy and Aleo).  The connections of Pepper's Pride have obviously done a wonderful job with her.  In my opinion, connections like these are what racing needs because they put the horse first.  In doing so, they have been rewarded with the chance of going for 17 straight.          

Unsportsmanlike behavior in racing to me is ducking another horse like Big Brown is ducking Curlin (BB should race against Curlin in the JCGC) and Dutrow trash talking the horse of the world.  Scratching a horse who is going for a major record because of unfavorable conditions that put the horse at a greater risk of injury is not unsportsmanlike behavior to me.  

Brad and Wanda,

Also, remember ACK ACK? Greer Garson and Buddy Fogleson stood him in NM for a while at their Forked Lightning ranch (pronounced For-KED) up along the Pecos river North of Santa Fe. Beautiful place up there, the lightning is terrible though and flashes in forks or twins, thus the name. QH racing is king here in NM but the TB racing improves each and every year.

Brad I was going to mention to you about the name and initials but knew from your posts that you are from California.  As I'm sure you saw when you were here everybody knows everybody else and we all have for decades, I knew Pierre's father from years ago and George's family as well. The Whited's now from Oaklawn, the Pletcher's etc. Quite a long history here.

Excuse me, Filly85, but it seems to me at this point that Curlin's connections are the ones dodging Big Brown and not vice versa.  They have stated all along they intend to run in the BC and have their own game plan of how to get there.  They have challenged Curlin's connections to put him in there, and failing that, have said (after a match race was nixed, and probably, rightfully so), that they could run in the Clark.  Granted, Dutrow talks too much at times, but he loves his horse. I really love both horses - how does every discussion always come around to Brown and Curlin?

Way to go Joel Marr!  It's good to know that trainers and owners do think more of the safety of their horses.  Why do you think she has done so well?  Hello!  They have taken care of her and done what is best for her.  They think more of her than they do of 'THE RECORD.' There is no time limit on her winning that next race, is there?  She can go for another one later and still, when she wins it, she will have that record!  Way to go! Smart move! Patience is a virtue!

Brownfan,

I think what brought the other two up originally was their ability to pick and choose the type of surface they run on and that should be extended to the mare.

On that subject do you really think BB would've run in the Clark?

34 others entered against BB at Monmouth, the BH article said if BB runs the purse will be doubled. If? what's up now? Also you may get your wish, Curlin's folks are entertaining the possibility of the Classic, depending on reports back from their other runners at SA. Not that I'm crazy about their connections, who also SAY just like RD SAYS they love their horse.  Of course who knows who might jump up and beat em both, they didn't look like world beaters last out, BB even less than Curlin.

Owners and trainers don't owe anything to the general public and the race fans. Race fans and race tracks don't pay vet bills or hospital bills. Owners are responsible for managing the racehorses career in a manner that is best for the horse and the owner. No one should be pressured into racing a horse when it is not in the best interest of the owner and the horse. Races will come and go, a good horse may only come along one in a lifetime.  Some people are quick to blame a jockey, owner, trainer and race track for an injured horse. Most of that is just plain ignorance..No matter what the connections of PP had decided to do, they would have been questioned for it anyway...unless they won.  So if the track didn't suit them, sounds like they made the right choice.  

Jason, I agree to a certain extent. However owners were racing horses against each other when there were no organized tracks. Bush tracks with illegal betting still exist. The my horse can beat your horse is what drove it from day 1. Horse owners also own race tracks. Gamblers are going to gamble and not many are as caring or atuned to the plight of the horse as Big, me and Jordy or some others. They are only betting on a product, much like the NFL etc. The owners first obligation should always be to the animal they own IMHO otherwise to me they would deserve all the hate that gets heaped on them when something happens.

Right Jason. However I know gamblers that see a horse get injured and are only concerned if it affected their bet, happy if it caused them to win. Callous, yes in MY opinion and probably yours. Wayne Lukas once said something to the affect of not having any problem attracting the degenerate gambler, it's the families and fans they want to attract and need to develop a strategy to market the product to them. IMHO the best way may be to show care and concern. I am all for risk taking but still leave it up to the folks paying the bills to determine risk vs reward. The way some people that have been mentioned many times on here act they don't care about attracting anyone to the game. The NFL, well most of the gamblers are in the background since we don't have windows to walk up to and bet. A lot of NFL fans are the working guy, grandma's and kids of the world (my Gran loves her home town Broncos), College BBall, I'm a huge fan of my Alma Mater, have only bet one time on them they pack the stands with students, alumni and local fans and are a BIG time team.  I'm just saying that a big portion of the gamblers who pour a lot of money into horse racing just like to bet, it matters not if they bet on nameless faceless commodities. I'm not the norm, basically gamble on the horses only, but I'm a fan first and foremost.

With all due respect Bigbrown fan, the connections of Curlin have said that they weren't going to run in the Classic all year.  That is the only reason why I think Ivarone was going to put up the money if Curlin were to show up in the BCC...because he knew that they most likely weren't going to come.  The connections of Curlin have announced their schedule to the public as soon as they have figured out which was the right route for their horse.  Why would the connections of a horse that won the Dubai World Cup beating the best older dirt horses in the world by 7 lengths be ducking a 3yo that hasn't ran the numbers on the sheets to go with him?  They don't want a match race with Big Brown because it would mess up their schedule, and they wanted to race in bigger races than the Clark Handicap (it doesn't attract the best horses most of the time and Curlin's connections have their sights set on the more prestigious Japan Cup).  Big Brown's connections should have done the sporting thing and raced against Curlin in the JCGC like most other brillant 3 yos do.  It should be Big Brown's job to go after the HOY since they have something to prove, not the other way around.  I have a feeling that we might see Curlin in the Classic now anyway.  I think Jess Jackson is feeling the pressure and is tired of the nonsense from BB's connections.  If Curlin races in the Classic, I don't think that Big Brown is going to be his biggest competition.  Some of the older horses that like the synthetic surface will be.    And wouldn't it be interesting if Sherriffs threw Zenyatta into the Classic mix?  She's good enough.  Well, that's just wishful thinking though....

Sorry, didn't mean for my original post to turn into an off topic post!  

True champions face adversity and overcome it.

Having stood and watched the water run rail deep on the first turn and down the backstretch, I applaud their decision to scratch the horse.  As an owner who did not have anything entered that weekend, I question the owners and trainers that did enter.  The track workers did a fantastic job to get the track open again.  If she would have been my horse, I would have scratched her a whole lot sooner.

To all you nay sayers of Pepper who don't think she's done much to deserve a following, we need ANY and ALL positive stories for racing, and this one is positive, she's the best of her class, she has a loyal fan base, she makes money for the sport on all levels and makes for a great human interest story with her connections. Does it matter REALLY, I mean come on all you who proclaim to love ALL horses, does it matter really what level? She's selling out the cheapseats (to quote a famous movie) and selling newspapers, and here now she has her very own blog, and she's not worthy of repsect? I am glad there are many fans that are not owners.

I'm sorry, Filly85, for the confusion on my part.  I thought Big Brown's connections wanted to run in the BC for a long while now - especially with all the articles I've read.  Even one of Jason's earlier blogs, "No More Challenges, Jess, Just Show Up,' posted 8/14, stated as much.  Well, maybe they will race against one another, maybe they won't.  I hope they do, and it will be an exciting race because as I stated earlier, I really like both horses.  Regardless, you and I agree on one thing - it looks as though we're both happy that Pepper's trainer scratched her last weekend.  They did right by their mare, and she can run for the record another day!  

Jason, just playing devil's advocate here:

Didn't O'Brien owe it to the racing public to run Duke against New Approach in the Irish Champion Stakes? He scratched because the ground was too soft.

Catsan I remember Ack Ack! I did not know he stood for awhile in New Mexico--I remember his run in 1971---he beat Cougar II in The Big Cap and he won Hol Gold Cup with 134 lbs then retired....Cougar's five length win in The Woodward sealed the deal for Ack Ack's Horse Of The Year....would've liked to see Cougar II face him at Hol but Charlie said no...I wonder if he sired any Quarter Horses in NM?? By the way there was a prolific sprinter back then named Duck Dance who did sire (many) Quarters...also I was fortunate to see Radar Ahead in person, he was very fast and defeated Affirmed at Santa Anita...a New Mexico Bred!

Matthew, I'll have to ask my Dad, he is a real oldtimer and remembers all of that, he's the one who reminded me of it. There were a lot of nice stallions here back then, a son of Tom Fool, a Swaps/Nashrulla, just a lot of really good ones. My Dad met Greer many times, he was friends with some of the important people back here. Funny you should mention Duck Dance, my relative had one of his progeny, sold him for a barrel horse a number of years a ago. Big huge gelding, was kind of mean with other horses. Right now they have a whole herd of them with some of the best QH bloodlines and a couple of Appendix with some of the best TB lines, going back to some TC winners.

I really think Wayne Lukas has been one able to get some out of the major TB sires, like Hennessy and Grand Slam, favors from owners.

It would be worth a trip to see the ranch, 13.000 acres was sold by Buddy, then donated to the State, now part of the Pecos Wilderness, it is beautiful. Lots of meadows, the river etc.

Hey Katsan: That horse we had years ago that was in the Seabiscuit movie was by Spook Dance by Duck Dance. He was used because he could break quick from the gate.(I Two Step Too). Small world eh?

Wanda,

It always has been in horse racing. We have a mare that goes back to Seabiscuit himself. I can't remember for sure but I think the gelding was a son of Duck Dance, can't remember his registered name, will ask the relative that too.

Tiznowbaby,

   Jason, correct me if im wrong, but i think he was refering to the fact that PP was going for the consecutive win record, but was scratched when the track turned up too muddy for their taste. I think the basic point being made is that in order for her to be a champion, in a way, you also need to show that you can run even when things don't go your way, including track conditions. I don't know how muddy it was there so i won't judge.  D of M was not going for some kind of estimed record, even though he was running against NP, in some kind of rematch, that's the difference. As i said i did not see the track so i have no idea how bad it was, even though i've heard it was supposed to be a swamp like last yrs bc. Those conditions are dangerous, some of us will risk it, and some will not. Right now especially to have either horse break down would not be worth the risk.

LDP, I was there, it was a river. It isn't exactly BC day. The QH's running that day in the big AA Derby actually run on a different track they don't have the turns so don't have the same issues. The BC at Monmouth, well they were going for millions. Joel discussed his reasons on here, it's been talked to death. He didn't want to run her, he didn't have to run her. You saw the bashing of Larry on the other blog, if PP would have gotten hurt it would have been more of the same for a trainer who said he didn't want to jeopardize the mare who is at the end of her career.

LDP,

The point is, people were expecting a New Approach/Duke rematch. Was it sporting to scratch? Obviously O'Brien felt he wouldn't run well, or with horses who try hard, maybe get hurt. Same thing with Pepper.

It should be kind of obvious that I don't believe "sporting" should be a consideration when deciding whether to scratch a horse because of track conditions, be it a cheap claimer or a world champion.

Tiznow, well put. My point about the BC is the care of the track and frankly, even though Hubbard spent a ton of money trying to get it right, this is still Ruidoso Downs were talking about here. Running for millions on a track that was superior to begin with MIGHT make it a little harder decision than running on a QH first track for 60 thousand.