Enjoyed reading about your "interview" with Big Brown! Although he's not my choice for HOY either, I've heard he's a very nice guy and obviously quite good-looking! Thanks.

I liked Big Brown fine enough, but I am like you, Jason.  I had a hard time separating him from his trainer & owners.  Big Brown was a very good racehorse, but due to an unlucky set of circumstances, he'll never be able to be considered great.  

I'm glad he's settling in well at Three Chimneys.  He deserves a great life!

YOU CAN NEVER HOLD A HORSE'S CONNECTIONS AGAINST THEM!!  BIG BROWN IS A WONDERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL RACEHORSE AND I ADORE HIM. I'M STILL GLAD HE DIDN'T WIN THE TRIPLE CROWN BECAUSE OF WHO HIS TRAINER WAS. THANK THE RACING GODS FOR AGREEING!!!

Love this piece.

Glad you were able to finally see past his connections to the real horse. It's never the horse's fault who is managing or owning him, so I have been a fan of Mr. Big while at the same time sneering at his connections--all, that is, except Miss Nevin. I'm happy to hear Brownie is doing well and has settled in. I look forward to seeing him soon!

He definitely enjoyed the attention that day, there were a lot of people that came through to see him. He was so chill I thought he was going to fall asleep while walking around  outside.

i dont care who his trainer is. and you shouldn't either. hes a fantastic horse, one of my all time favorites! and he is deff up there with all the greats!!!:) i love big brrown. he'd deff be my choice for HOY!:)

I fell in love with Big Brown from the very beginning - he's gorgeous, talented,a great horse and deserves more credit than he has been given - he'll be happy at Three Chimneys.

I really enjoyed hearing about the non-verbal interaction you had with Big Brown, Jason.  Kenny Mayne, writing humor pieces for ESPN, used to go one step further with imaginary conversations among different horses, such as in the barn the night before the Ky. Derby, etc.  They were so funny.

But hey, if it's too soon for Brown to talk about the Belmont, we all understand.

I loved your artical on big brown and  I am looking forward to visiting big brown at three chimneys in the near future. Big Brown is a wonderful beautiful animal to be around. I think he will make a wonderful sire as i feel he hasn't a bad bone in his body.

Funny how you said that Big Brown communed with you.  I had that very experience with Smarty the day the media was at Three Chimney's to film the special that aired on Breeder's Cup day, I think.  I found Silver Charm equally communicative, and sadly watched him walk to his pasture for the last time, as he went to Japan the next day.  I don't think anything was said about Point Given, at least I didn't see it.   I was so upset about him, that I wrote Mr. Clay, who was gracious enough to write me back and assure me that Charm would have the best of everything.  Three Chimney's is a class operation, and the attitude of their horses shows it.  Big Brown is lucky to be there.

How is his foot doing? No ever mentions anything about it. Love the pictures on here of him, but they do not show his foot.

He answered your question! He showed you his rear end and the hooves attached to the legs on that rear end...especially that one that nearly lost the shoe!

Three Chimneys is a beautiful place.  I cherish my visit there to see Seattle Slew and Fly So Free...Fly So Free was a beautiful stallion who died tragically young...and my favorite, Rahy.  Hope to go back some day and see the new roster!

Any chance that Big Brown could come out of retirement after he vists the ladies for a bit? Or does his foot problems dimish his chances of racing ever again? He sure is a good looking boy!  

Jason I really don't think any of us ever disliked the horse. He's a horse and most of them are far more loveable than the humans that surround them.

Most of us, like you, were turned off by the connections. Those of us who suffered through some of the unsufferable boorishness felt more strongly. It'll never stop, just witness the assinine remarks by Rick during the Breeders Cup, my bet is on Carla Gaines or Helen in a throwdown. RD is all fluff no substance my opinion of course.

If Dutrow doesn't have another huge horse, he'll still have his verbal skills or lack thereof, the rest of the people on here just won't be subjected to them.

Then to read the TC talk and get beat over the head with the horse day after day and it still hasn't stopped, we still don't dislike the horse, just the people doing the pounding.

Most of us felt concern for the horse and his feet. Most of us feel concern that he will pass those bad feet on and we'll hear a whole nother round of 'breed for soundness not for speed' fan outcry.

The colt has always had personality and I've said more than once, too bad he can't speak. At least where the rest of the world can here him . He's everything his connections aren't, personality plus.

Thank you so much for the first-hand information on my favorite horse, Big Brown.  So glad to hear that he has settled in to his new home and looks wonderful.  I hope to visit Three Chimneys one day and get to see him in person.  For me, he will always be a champion and Horse of the Year even if he doesn't receive in the real world.

Kent swore by this horse the first time he rode him--then he won The Florida and Kentucky Derbys with multiple moves/gears--which were necessary to win those races from the far outside posts! The thing about Big Brown was--most horses cannot overcome bad posts in Gr 1 races---Big Brown COULD--because of his multiple gears/ability to gear down/rebreak! This is called "making your OWN luck", and thats a quality only the great ones posess! Big Brown loses more ground than everybody in the race, yet he wins The Derby by five widening lengths...That was one of the greatest races ever run....

Funny article! Loved it! BB is quite a character and he is loved by many people. Yes, one wonders if he will pass his bad feet along. It's a crap shoot on that one. Atthebarn, I laughed my head off over the "throw down' comment.

AWESOME STORY, THEY SAY A GREAT HORSE HAS A GREAT PERSONALITY. BIG BROWN IS AN AWESOME SPECIMEN, WHAT A DERBY HE RAN!!!

Wonderful read, thanks! Hopefully Brownie will be happy & healthy now. It looks like Dutrow will have another "big" horse as Stardom Bound was bought for $5.7 million by IEAH Stables and her new trainer will be Rick Dutrow. I loved this horse this past year and surely hope she does great in her three yr. old campaign.

I do notcare who likes BB ,I do , he was and is a wonderful horse, Just because he didn't win Triple crown , does not mean he is aazzzzz horse, he's great in my eyes, and he would have beat Curlin at santa Anita, I like curlin to, But he got beat to on grass and Breederscup. whats the bid deal anyway? BB was the better horse( my opinion) amongnst a heck of others to. So who ever you think is better, Oh well.

My favorite horse is also Point Given.  When visiting my son who goes to UK one March I decided to go to Three Chimneys to see Smarty Jones but, was instead totally charmed by PG. Is it just me or does he really have some kind of aura?  It is because of Point Given and the wonderful job they do for the visitors of Three Chimneys that I have become a racing fan and always cheer on the progeny of Point Given.  I have since been to Claiborne and Ashford and just didn't have that same kind of experience.  If you ask me, there might be a larger fan base if all those farms treated their visitors like Three Chimneys - what a class organization it is!!!  I will be back in Lexington to watch my son graduate in May and hope to visit there and see Big Brown and hopefully Point Given will be back.

I, like you, had a hard time separating BB from his connections but, he does appear to be a nice animal.  I love your blogs - we think so much alike.

Myself, I wish Stardom Bound would have gone to anybody BUT IEAH and Dutrow. The comment by Mike about letting her graze so she could gain weight. If you saw this filly in person she was a perfect specimen. She's already big and looks very healthy. ALL of Chris'

horses always look healthy, happy and great.

Paula,

I tend to have that affect on most of the ladies I know, intentional or not.

I think Big Brown is terrific and I miss him already! He seems to me to be a really special horse and not just because of his impressive wins.  Watching him on tv in the barn and in the paddock, he gave me the impression of intelligence.  He seemed to take everything in and I got the impression he knew what he was there for and that he was destined to be a champion.  I wish I could have seen him in person to see if my impressions were correct.  I have read a TON about the great horses of old, and that's one thing I have read many times about them.  They just seemed to have an air about them.  I don't know how to describe it I guess but I felt like he had it.  I think if he'd stayed around through next year we might have really seen something (and that is not taking anything away from what he did already).  Anyone know what I mean or get that impression also....?

Point Given is also my favorite horse - - he's the reason I'm a fan! Is there any additional information on why he's in Brazil or when he'll be back?

Amen on Point Given! But I'm glad you were able to reach an understanding with Big Brown. :-)

For goodness sakes, enough already about bashing Rick Dutrow. Yes, he has a checkered past, and was brash in his talk during the Triple Crown. But he thought he had the best horse, and was exhibiting that confidence by speaking so highly of Big Brown. Furthermore, I've spent my entire life in the barns of some great trainers, and Rick, whether you like him or not, is a tremendous horseman. His horses are extremely well-cared for and well-turned out. Nothing to do with steroids, there. The guy lives and breathes his horses. Don't like him, if that is your preference, but letting your personal feelings for the guy to overshadow the wonderful work he has done with a slew of horses, is just plain silly. To enjoy horse racing should not be about liking or disliking someone; rather it should be about recognizing the achievements of the horses AND their connections.

I have to agree with Karen, well said. While I'm not sure if I "like" R Dutrow I sure found him refreshing. We live in such a politically correct world that it was NICE to hear someone say what he really thinks in public. And I've never really "liked" S Asmussen, too many drug positives. But I have never met them and I'm sure if I did I WOULD like them (of course, I like most everyone). I know this because I met Pat Day at the Pacific Classic this year and he was THE NICEST person I've met in a long, long time and as a jockey I never "liked" him, although I always thought he was a superb rider. And also while I think it's great that JJ ran Curlin at 4(and would be great to see him at 5, no news is good news, right?), I don't think it's as special as he does. He reminds me of Oprah, with all the "look at what a good thing I did". I wish more owners remembered that these are racehorses not just stallion prospects. The fans would really appreciate it.

Barb, not to bring this whole thing up again but Dutrow says whatever he thinks, that's true.

But tell me how you'd feel being on the receiving end of some of this guys salvos. I guess some people think it's fine to demean other horses, other trainers who didn't deserve it.

My opinion is,this was a kinder gentler world 50 years ago when people didn't think they could say whatever they wanted to say about people true or not.

Even those who thought he told it like it was and found him funny and refreshing (like Randy Moss) think he's gone TOO far. Even his owners told him to zip it.

Talk about drug positives, for the comparative # of horses he has, he has had way more positives than Steve, look up how many he's had.  

I don't like Steve's positives and I don't like the way he kept making money during his suspension.

He has made some remarks about fellow trainers, but it was nothing like what Dutrow has said.

Just ask some of the trainers how they feel about him. You can read it online if you want.

As far as Curlin, part of the reason he ran this year is the situation with the partners. Also Jess is so wealthy he can afford to do it.

Atthebarn2... I find it funny that other trainers throw stones at Dutrow when many are just as big a liars and cheaters as Dutrow.  I give him credit for admitting his misguided past and his passion for horses.  But many trainers are nothing more than cheaters and hypocrites.  How many trainers have more then 3 infractions in the last 3 years?  In many sports its 3 strikes and your out...how many have 10, 20, or more strikes? A cheater is a cheater plain and simple and for one trainer to talk down on another is nuts...he better be squeaky clean or just shut up.  If your clean great... you should be great.

Karen,

Just as you have a right to like the guy, we who don't have that same right to dislike him.

I'm not just basing my wish for the filly to go to someone else, on the steroids issue. I'm basing it on the multitude of drug positives and the fact that a lot of RD's colleagues don't like him saying things that continue to put the industry in a bad light.

Like saying if they would have held a gun to his head he would've testified when he bailed on congress. Bashing the other trainers when HE got his latest drug positive. Like making snide remarks about some very nice, hard trying horses (NOT CURLIN) and their very nice gentlemanly trainers. Like belittling women on the race track when he himself said Michelle Nevin was most responsible for Big Brown's success.

You know what, ask any trainer who was around, they'll tell you it was Michelle who was there for Big Brown, NOT Rick Dutrow. It just goes on and on.

If you choose to like someone like that, go for it. I just don't want to see a beautiful filly like SB drug through the mud by this guy.

I really thought better of IEAH after they themselves called out their OWN trainer and told him to shut up. I didn't like the comment about SB, intimated that she wasn't well cared for and then the bizarre remark about the death threats nearly 6 months later.

Ask a trainer how they feel, these guys and LADIES have expressed that. THEY thought it was embarrassing for him to belittle female trainers on Breeders Cup day, did you think that was funny or appropriate?

My guess is, if you had someone like him as the face of your company, taking potshots at you and your fellow workers you wouldn't be overly fond of him either.

It isn't refreshing to be hurtful to others. People think he says things off the top of his head, I think and some of the trainers I've spoken with think it's more calculated than that.

Lastly I'd like to know just which great trainers you've spent time at their barns and in what capacity. Especially since a large number of the greats of the game have said what they think of Rick and it wasn't flattering.

I am a horse loving girl. My dream is to become a trainer some day when I finish school in Kentucky.

I love all the horses, some more than others. But there are some trainers that I would rather see have the horses than others, that doesn't make me dislike the horse though.

As someone who watches the races but can't bet, I also watch and read anything I can about all of horse racing.

When I watched the Bryant Gumble updated special I was so disappointed and started doubting the treatment of the horses.

You say Mr.Dutrow and Mr.Asmussen love their horses and are great horsemen. How can that be said when they give drugs to their horses in illegal amounts, not just once but many many times especially in Mr.Dutrow's case?

I still love the horses but really have no respect for someone who said he gives a certain drug, because he likes it (clenbuterol) and gave steroids even though he had no idea why.

At least Mr. Asmussen and Mr. Lake had some very legitimate reasons and discussed them intelligently. I think Mr. Dutrow likes to thumb his nose at authority.

My friends, we all live in horse country, feel like I do. I'll take Larry Jones, Mr. Jerkens, Mr. Matz or Barcaly Tagg and several others over Mr. Dutrow any day and if I don't get to train, if I ever own, he is the last person I would send my horses to. Rather a horseman who loves his horses and doesn't need to drug them or insult his associates.

Jason I also agree on Point Given, he is such a beautiful guy and HE should have won the Triple Crown.

I also like Charismatic, I was little and cried when he got hurt in the Belmont, I think he could have won the Triple Crown too. Mr. Lukas lives not too far from me, one day I will get up enough nerve to speak to him, ask for a job?

Thank you for sharing your "interview" with BB.  He is one gorgeous horse.  I was at the derby, Belmont, and his last race at Monmouth this year. He is an awesome looking horse.  As for the Belmont, bad foot didn't help on big sandy.  The rest of his races were fantastic.  He was a pleasure to have around he cant help it who his connections were.  I cringed when they bought Stardom Bound.  

BB should have been given a chance to have that quarter crack recover.  But, that would have meant racing later in the year and next year. Which means he would have missed the TC.  But in the end, by patching it was BB who paid the price and had part of his hoof ripped off.  At least we didnt see that in a race.  I hope he doesnt pass on bad feet, and it was just a quarter crack that wasnt given time to heal.  

Atthebarn2, I am sorry if I offended you. I am not defending what Dutrow said(or says) only his right to say it. I do know that he is full of it. And I wouldn't like to have him say mean things about me or anyone else. When I wrote the previous post I was thinking of all the hype he made about Big Brown not all of the stuff he said pre Belmont about other trainers drug use and Curlin. Anyone could see that he was trying to get the heat off himself and acting like a grade school bully. I have only been blogging for like a week(it's really fun to talk horses with others who are passionate about it) and am realizing that it's hard to get the tone of my meaning across sometimes. So anyway apologies.  :)

Okay, then, I'm great.

At least the ones who aren't clean aren't spouting off for the world to hear. Telling the others their positives are worse than their own. That sounds like an immature kid telling their folks they smoked dope but Jimmy did too.

Plus, this is one thing that I guarantee, you know NOTHING about it, first hand.

I believe Rick's had 18 positives in the last 8 or so years that's 2+ per year, but 13 for sure that he's been fined or suspended for. Look it up it's a matter of record. Then his cavalier attitude. He gave steroids because they were legal, didn't know why. He gave Clenbuterol because he likes it, these are HIS words not mine.

You think I'm the only one saying this, google it, see what some of the media and fans are saying about the guy.

He calls out other trainers one of which never had a drug positive as far as I know. He also explains everyone else's success away by saying they all were using drugs, when most of them haven't had more than 1 or 2 positives in their career's.

Let me tell you one thing, there is a ton of jealousy in horse racing and when you open yourself up like Rick has done by criticizing other trainers, defending himself by saying that this guy is worse than me, when that guy never said anything to or about Rick or when he says everybody does it, no WE do not. There are a few guys who have a lot of positives 3 strikes you're out, then bye bye Ricky.

Then when your biggest owner is so p.o.'s at you for LYING to him by omission when he's told you he's coming out with this big NO DRUG policy and you knew you'd been tagged with a positive. In fact, so p.o'd that he was pulling his horses, until someone talked him out of it and then puts you on a short leash and tells you to shut up.

Most positives by MOST trainers are rare, Larry, 1 in 25 years. Those who have had 1 every 3-4 years and I can tell you one high profile guy who's had a handful in 40+ years others who have had none, the ones with the rare positives truly are the ones who had errors, contamination and the ever popular tampering, disgruntled employee.

If you truly love your horses you don't usually give them drugs just because and you definitely don't brush it off or try to lay blame on other trainers being worse. You suck it up and take your punishment, pay your fine or defend yourself if you're innocent.

Funny nobody said this kind of stuff about Carl or John Servis, or Barclay Tagg.

Barb, no need to apologize. I just wanted you to know why we find him so offensive.

Also, the bit of a rant that I posted just before this was for Draynay.

Please don't think I am bashing any Horsemen who write their thoughts and opinions here, as you have in the past. I mean no harm, it's NOT personal. Please understand,as you have said in the past, that you are the "insiders" & we, the simple fans are the "outsiders." Though I don't like the comparison, I respect your feelings. I may be the only one who cheered when I read that IEAH aquired Stardom Bound and Dutrow would be the trainer. But, I do think it is a good match, but time will tell. The Dutrow & IEAH bashing will continue because they were up front & center with the advent of Big Brown, who was also upfront & center. So the media focused all the attention on that partnership, stable & trainer. But while this was all going on, I continued reading beyond the Big Brown stories. Assmusen, Hollendorfer and others had many "infractions" not to mention... where's Biancone?! Drugging horses in another country? It happens, you know it and the Industry knows it. I think Dutrow has been made the poster boy for 2008. I am NOT saying he is an angel, I'm mearly saying he's not the devil. I hope all works out well with the partnership, Dutrow, Stardom Bound & all of his stable. We need positive support for this sport. Not saying that reporting the negative occurances should stop, that's a given. BUT... report all the news, upfront, not focusing on one particular trainer, partnership etc. then hiding the rest in little paragraphs easily missed. With the retirement of Brownie and Lava Man and the hoopla reported for weeks ~ Evening Attire's Day was not reprted, not even a picture?? They all deserve respect, Human & equine. Thanks to all the fans & Horsemen who blog here. I always enjoy the read, especially Bradgm & Atthebarn.

Here it is in a nutshell Draynay.

Rick is the one who casts stones.

There are a lot of trainers who have never had a drug positive.

There are even more who have had a couple in 10-35 years, mistakes happen.

There are trainers who have multiple positives and own up to it, try to explain it but never excuse themselves by attacking others.

Rick is the only one I know of who excuses his drug positives by attacking his fellow trainers.

Rick is the one who brags on his horses, makes outlandish predictions, okay fine gamesmanship, but Rick is the one who does so by saying other  horses are garbage.

Karen,

If you don't know Rick you can't speak on him.

Like several have said, how good of a horseman are you if you have as many drug positives as he has had and then, dismiss it and admit you don't know what the drugs are for? Then say the other guys do it. Say the only reason any of them are beating you is they use drugs on their horses, with NO data to back that up?

How WELL cared for is a horse who's getting drugs he can't control, like Jeanine Sahadi said?

Build BB up, great, not by demeaning other horses and trainers.

Funny, like the one guy said, first time you've mentioned all these great trainers you've been associated with but, if you haven't WORKED for these trainers you don't really know what goes on.

Do you know for a fact that he lives and breathes horses? He finds time to party, even he admits that. There are trainers that haven't had a day off in 10-30 years or maybe even a couple of days at most. So most of us live and breathe the horses and don't find time to do much of anything at all.

In fact the only comment I've heard Steve make about a fellow trainer was to say he didn't want to be as driven and have it take over his life to the detriment of family, friends etc. When he was asked if he wanted to be like Wayne Lukas.

Lastly, it is human nature to love the horses but if the human beings around them are objectionable it affects people's perception of the horse, the sport.

Just like in other professional sports, people can love a team, get a player who is in trouble constantly, opens his big mouth and bashes his fellow players, coaches and teammates. Pretty soon the whole team is being condemned as thugs. Get five or six like that, the whole sport is called out as a bunch of thugs, true or not.

Norma, thanks. I've read your MySpace page and I know you are an animal lover.

I happen to have fallen in love with Stardom Bound, why? I have no idea. I just feel that, since Chris couldn't continue to train, I would have loved to see her go to someone who wouldn't stick his foot in his mouth and make people question her like they did BB.

I think most peoples points are fine say what you want Dutrow, just leave others out of the equation. Don't bring up someone else's drug positives or insinuate they have issues. Stand up take it like a man and say I did this or I didn't it was an error whatever.

If you want to brag on SB, go for it but don't say the things that turned so many trainers against you.

Norma the other thing is telling someone not to take it personal, not me because I have a life outside horseracing, but these trainers who live, eat and breathe horse racing it is totally personal. Would we really have it any other way? If they didn't take it personal then we'd think less of them because we'd doubt their passion and devotion to the horse.

Like some have said, even the people who were laughing and saying oh that's just Rick, aren't doing that now. I actually felt bad for Carla, her reaction was one of 'I can't believe my colleague just said that about me on National television'. She and a lot of other female trainers have given up any semblance of a normal life, just like a lot of the male trainers. They do it because they love their horses and are dedicated to them.

Also, Biancone got a just punishment 5 years with all kinds of caveats and stipulations.

Most have said they didn't agree with the way Steve's 6 month suspension was carried out, with Scott taking the horses and Steve picking back up. That's the racing Authority/Board that did that, not his fellow trainers. But he never said others were worse than him, he did say there may have been tampering and of course HBO jumped on that until he clarified it. The others, you never hear about because they take their punishment and/or appeal if they think they're right and a lot of them have been exonerated too.

Off the subject of this blog I know and I'm sorry but... Did you all hear that Rick is not going to train Stardom Bound?  At least not in the beginning as she is going to start out for them in California!

Rick Dutrow's comments about the female trainers was just disgusting. Even if he thought it he shouldn't have said it. I felt very sorry for them after he made that comment. I am certain someone has said something to him about it from IEAH. That's bad for their image any way you cut it. He is who he is. But my guess is that if he doesn't get his mouth under control permanently, he will be a trainer without horses. The sport won't tolerate it forever. Let's root for Stardom Bound anyway. To me it's about the horses.

Paula, I agree with you totally. I'm not going to hate SB because of her connections. I actually didn't hate BB either, just didn't like that comments were used to down Curlin by some, stating once that he was a one trick dirt pony??? and using that to boost BB. That is what i hate, not the horses.

Whatamidoing... show me where he called other horses garbage.  Because if you can't that makes you a liar.

Dray, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, my god you lie all the time.

Please stop this guys. Don't add fuel to the fire it's not worth it. I've got tons of respect for the trainers who take the time to come on here. I know first hand how long their days are but you can't win a debate with "he who we do not name". He is in some other place as far as that horse goes.500 people have tried to reason and he nevers concedes a point on ANYTHING period.Atte talks about that brick wall of his, and I think somebody gets off on seeing people bang their head against it.I like you guys to much to see you get caught up in this again. I want to read about positive stuff like the free TB website or Peppers Pride winning another one or take your pick but please, please don't go there with you know who.

p.s. from the same SI article, also interviews and ESPN

"David Carroll, who trains Belmont runner-up Denis of Cork, spat out words as he filled a bucket with cold water for his horse. "You're supposed to win with class," said Carroll. "He's saying his horse has beaten nothing and he's running against nothing. I was upset by that."

In an adjacent barn, trainer Dallas Stewart, whose Macho Again ran fifth, pulled on a bottle of Corona and angrily threw a lime into a trash can. "I've never heard anybody mouth off like that, and I've been around the track for 30 years," said Stewart. "There's no need to talk smack like that"

Zito, who also broke up the last Triple Crown try when his Birdstone ran down Smarty Jones in '04, said, "I'd like to focus on the positive, but I know this: Before honor, humility; you've got to be humble."

Think it's only Whatamidoing, Atthebarn, me and my buddies, Wanda and a few others saying this?

Fact is there are a lot on here who you have no idea what their connection really is.

Well I have always been a Big Brown fan.  After breaking his maiden on the grass at Saratoga, I knew we had something special.

I know a lot of people who couldn't get around Dutrow. I have a mute button.  He talked, I turned him off and just watched Big Brown roll.  

He won impressivly on the dirt and grass. I personally wish he would have run in the Classic. Maybe there was no beating the Euro's but it would have made it interesting.

 All other thingd aside, I agree with normajean. How come no pictures of Evening Attire's going out seremony?? The old guy's been at it for many a year and one of my favorites.

Wanda, I know where you're coming from but calling people liars just pushes a button with guys like us.

Bighorsefan... you provided 0 proof that Dutrow ever called other horses "garbage"

Dutrow saying "I don't see any problem" was accurate and correct nearly EVERY time. He was being honest he had the best horse in every race and proved it.

Draynay, you just argued against yourself.

For all the people who said this was a weak group and you disputed them, for 5 months.

Well your favorite horse's trainer just was quoted saying this was a "weak group" and he was running against NOTHING (in another article I read).

Now if you're going to call guys out and call people liars, maybe you shouldn't just quote what supports your view.

The comment "a weak group" was for public consumption, MY guess from Dallas Stewart's, David Carroll's, Nick Zito's, Wayne Lukas and other's responses is, what he said on the backside was far worse than what we heard.

If saying his competitiors were a "weak group" isn't an insult and saying that they were NOTHING ie, garbage. What got you so fired up when it was said as a response to all your claims of him as the greatest horse in 30-100 years?

Plus he DIDN'T have the BEST horse in EVERY RACE. The race he called the others out on was one he lost, the horse was never the same post steroids.......  Also 'foregone conclusion' that definitely sounds like someone dismissing the others as $5,000 claimers, or the bottom of the barrel.

Don't try and make him sound like an Altar boy by quoting the only innocuous comment there was.

Also I think I'd avoid any of the race tracks these guys on here frequent, like Churchill, Belmont, Aqueduct, Louisiana Downs, Oaklawn, Saratoga etc. Not that I've ever heard what track you yourself have ever even been to. Maybe a good idea to keep it on the q.t.

BIGHORSEFAN gave you the proof. You choose to see it in a skewed way, may be the way you see life in general.

My suggestion is to be careful who you call liars, bet you don't do that in your real world.  

Sorry to disappoint you Wanda, but some things affect people to where they can't keep quiet, especially when it's OUR world this guy is intruding on.

Also, does this tell you WHY me and a few other owners and trainers on here have not disclosed our identity?  David said it all, some of the rest of us chimed in on those comments.

WE unfortunately can't put this guy on MUTE. We can ourselves though. Problem with the mute button for the guys who believe in honesty, playing fair and being considerate of their colleagues and profession and trying to be honorable is the good is muted along with the bad.

Wanda, let me apologize in advance. Surely you know from your husband that you can't question a mans honor or integrity?

This isn't the first time he's called trainers, liars, cheats, dumb etc.

I'm kind of like some others trying to figure out what his stake in the whole deal is. He says he's not Rick, I believe that because he's misquoted too many stats, like the one way back about the Bluegrass winner. So what difference does any of this make to him?

My bet is this guy goes on boards all over trying to stir up trouble, well, that's one of my theories.

For the lady who said to put Rick on mute, those of us who are in the industry have said over and over we'd like to. Kind of hard to do though when he's talking about you or your horse. Or you hear it in person or from one of your friends who heard him say it. Worse yet to hear it blabbed all over the media when we get so little coverage and it comes out negative like this. I guess a fist to the mouth would be the ultimate mute but most of us won't do that, because WE ARE honorable.

Draynay, if somebody says your horse is NOTHING, what does that mean to you? It means to us who actually have horses, that your horse is crap or garbage. A BIG ZERO!

My suggestion to you is to choose a different person to champion. One who actually deserves it.

Trust me, Rick Dutrow would not give you the time of day if you were to meet him and try to speak to him, maybe if you had a van load of horses and a pocketful of money or would hook him up with good parties.

My guess is that he likes to flaunt the rules so much that with the newer rules, he'll get a huge positive and get ruled off for years like he did for his own issues, maybe he'll take you with him Draynay.

If Iavarone is as savvy as I think he is, he'll move those horses out of Rick's barn before he becomes as lacking in credibility and class as Rick projects.

I stand corrected gentleman. Get it out of your system and I'll be back when the dust clears. Take care posse.

Wanda, we aren't trying to correct you attall. Just remember for what you see there's always more than meets the eye. Read the disclaimer. I think it's out of the whole posse's system. You're safe to come back, enjoy, see you down the road some day.My bud has some real nice ones he'll be focusing on.

Wanda, saw Pepper run. It was beautiful. Like Frank Lyons said (I recorded it) why should she leave NM when she's running for 150,000? Joe and Joel are making a decision if to run her next year or retire and breed her. The next race would be in mid December and then not until March so I think they'll retire and breed her.

Also I think the coast is probably crystal clear, especially if these guys are anything like my own racetracker, stubborn and proud. Helps with the job and the tough losses in the big races, how well we know that one, just this weekend in fact.

I'm glad Katsan mentioned Pepper's Pride as I have been wanting to sing her praises! She brings a tear to my eye. I was sad to read today that she will be retired after the Dec. 14 race. I wish her much future happiness! Also did you hear the comments of Simon Bray? About her not being worth breeding so they should just keep running her? She may not have great breeding and I have noticed that really good racemares don't always make great broodmares but if any horse deserves a solid shot at passing her genes on its gotta be a filly who's gone 18 for 18! I say bring on Street Cry!

Atthebarn... in what article did Rick call other horses nothing?

On the BB subject, I don't think he'll be considered as  a truly great horse by the racing public.  His connections may be a factor, but more than that, I'm   not sure he was as good a 3 year old as Curlin.  Curlin fell away after his trip to Dubai but at his best he was top class.

As a stallion, I can't see a son of Boundary being a big success.  You heard it hear 1st.  

No worrys Atthebarn it's just a figure of speech meaning I get your point of view.

Katsan glad you got to see her run she must draw the crowds eh?

I think somebody went over to Five Cross Files and is promoting over there now. Oh well another day in paradice!

Opps sorry should have said that you know who went over to Hammer Time not Five Cross Files.

Wanda, The funny thing is Zia only has a capacity of 4,000. But RD was there along with his partner John Jones, two of the biggest players in racing, TB or QH.

barb, I also heard Bray's comment. But loved it when Frankie told him rather rudely, the others needed to go to her when Bray made his comment about big fish in a small pond and then Frankie also said why does she need to go ANYWHERE, running at big purses like she is. Ken backed him up on that. She's won around a million $ running in NM where her true fans can watch her. Also some of the biggest in racing have said it's an amazing feat.

Draynay, I'm not who you asked but I can read between the lines, having many friends in the industry and don't think the guy you asked will answer, he already did. But I assume since you comment, that you are able to use a computer so you should google it.

Here are a few samples. Plus, HOW do YOU know what was being said to these guys on the backside? How do YOU know what he was blabbing about?

Dallas is a class guy, not given to outbursts like that and Nick finally having enough of it said Dutrow needed to call Soprano's psychologist.

I suggest you give this up. If it's the only way for you to focus on the horse or racing, sad for you.

Tuesday June 10, 2008 11:04AM; Updated: Tuesday June 10, 2008 11:06AM

Tim Layden > INSIDE HORSE RACING

The comment referenced in BIGHORSEFANS post, above

"Dutrow spoke likewise before the Belmont, calling the outcome "a foregone conclusion," and dismissed the opposition as a weak group.

Sidelines Kentucky Sports and Beyond.

“You win with class and you lose with class,” Carroll said. “I know some people think (Dutrow’s boasting) is refreshing or whatever. I don’t.”

“I feel bad for the horse, hopefully he’s fine,” said Carroll of Big Brown. “But the way (Dutrow) was talking, basically what he was saying is my horse is a POS and I knew he wasn’t. It just rubbed me the wrong way.”

Now you may not take him saying the other colts were a weak group, nothing to worry about(Seattle times)and it's a foregone conclusion as intimating or even saying the others are garbage, crap or a POS but the people who actually RUN RACE HORSES for A LIVING obviously did.

ADD to THAT the fact THAT NO ONE outside the game really knows what was said within the community and the whole argument is moot as far as us non participants are concerned.

Get OFF the SUBJECT once and for all. I think YOU ARE OBSESSED and Dutow might even be concerned about your stalker mentality.

OOPs I meant R. DEE HUBBARD of course.

Kitman I am just tired of people putting words in Rick Dutrow's mouth. He did not call other horses garbage and never called them "nothing."  He didn't fear the talent of any other horse and EVERYONE on the planet has talked about this being a weak class of 3 year old horses so all of you need to give it a rest. IMO

Another thing Kitman: Using the steroid argument and trying to say Big Brown was not the same after Belmont is just plain wrong.  His victory in the Haskell going away was impressive and only the second Derby winner to ever win the Haskell... ask Alysheba how hard it is.  Second, his win against older multiple graded stakes winners on turf was very impressive and gave the Derby winner a win on turf as a 2 and 3 year old.... look up how many Derby winners have won on turf as a 2 and as a 3 year old.....

Draynay,

You need to venture to other sites and see what is being said. By legitimate media, not YOU. There's no proving anything to you. Do YOU know what he said, I read it in at least 25 different places that he said the other horses were NOTHING to worry about, they were a WEAK GROUP, IT WAS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION that the horse would WIN. He KNEW HIS HORSE and the others were NOTHING to worry about.

Are YOU a race track person, do YOU have a CLUE what was said? SEVERAL trainers of repute said the guy insulted other horses. IF you want to see that he INSULTED other TRAINERS go look that up TOO.

Right, steroids have no effect at all, everyone is banning them for the fun of it.

Yes he won the Haskell, against those SAME kind of WEAK horses his big mouth trainer was talking about.

The LAST THING a struggling industry needs is IDIOTS trying to sell it. YOUR favorite little horse is retired, go visit him, better yet send one of your champion mares to him.

Thank GOD Iavarone and his soon to be partners on Stardom Bound came to their senses and sent her to Bobby Frankel. (YOu know don't you that even Bobby tried to get Rick to cool his jets?)

Dray, it's not that hard to win a race that called a Grade 1, but has the competion of an allownence/grade 3 field. And honestly steroids do have an effect, they help a horse train better and longer, allowing them to stay focused on their work, allowing them to build up more muscle. Remember, even Dutrow the steroid he used was a drug to help the horses train better, and help their appitite. Well if i'm not mistaken, if you are able to train better, then your building more muscle than you would if you didn't take the steroids.