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Old Fashioned Has the Look of a Genuine Derby Contender

Technically, this blog is still called Breeders' Cup Chat, with Triple Crown Talk not officially returning until the start of the New Year. But in my mind it is never too early to start talking about the Kentucky Derby, especially after the performance we saw from Old Fashioned last weekend in the Remsen.

If you missed it or haven't gotten around to watching Old Fashioned's eye-popping 7 1/4-length score at Aqueduct, do yourself a favor and check it out. What you will see is your early Kentucky Derby favorite. That's right. I'm saying it now. Forget about Vineyard Haven, Midshipman or the other impressive 2-year-olds we've seen so far; Old Fashioned is the one to watch when the Triple Crown trail begins in a couple months.

It is impossible not to be impressed with Old Fashioned so far. After breaking his maiden at first asking, the son of Unbridled's Song caught everyone's attention next out when he devoured first-level allowance company at Delaware Park, winning by more than 15 lengths on Nov. 3.

In the Remsen, Old Fashioned flashed early speed, was under a Ramon Dominguez stranglehold until inside the eighth-pole and still destroyed the field without being asked. When Dominguez peeked back at the quarter-pole and drew away with ease, I had flashbacks of Kent Desormeaux doing the same thing on Big Brown in his allowance race at Gulfstream. It was an awesome sight to watch.

For people who were not overly impressed, I know what you're saying: Old Fashioned had things his own way on the lead and the fractions (:24.41, :49.44, 1:14.18) were very soft. But I'll counter that by telling you he ran the final 3/8th of a mile in :36 and final eighth of a mile in :12 1/5th, all without ever being asked! I don't care how slow you go early, if you come home in those splits, you're something special. Plus, in his allowance race he ran a :47 1/5 half and 1:12 for six furlongs while being pressed.

When I spoke with trainer Larry Jones on Thursday, he was also shocked by Old Fashioned's closing time in the Remsen.

"That surprised me more than anything else," Jones said. "We knew he had had good speed and turn of foot, but when I saw he got that last three-eighths in a little over 36 seconds and was still galloping, that impressed me.

"He had it pretty easy up front, but couldn't rate. He went :49 for a half, how much slower can he go? Why go :54 if you don't have to? I think he already proved he could rate at Delaware."

Jones went on to compare Old Fashioned to Eight Belles, who had the same ability to draw away from the field without being asked. When pressed, he admitted Old Fashioned is probably the most talented 2-year-old he has ever trained, including Eight Belles, Proud Spell and Hard Spun.

"I would have to say he's probably the best I've had at this point," Jones said. "Eight Belles didn't have that same early lick. Hard Spun was really fast, but he had to work a little more at the end. This colt is the whole package. We're very pleased right now, especially to get that mile and an eighth win under his belt. I've never had one do that this early. He acts like he just wants to go, go, go."

Jones said Old Fashioned arrived in New Orleans on Wednesday in great shape and they will begin mapping out a plan for him. He will keep him separated from his two other Derby hopefuls - Friesen Fire and It Happened Again.

"I have three good ones here," Jones said. "Old Fashioned won't go in the LeComte; maybe the Risen Star, but I think they cut the purse in that one. So he might go to the Southwest and stay out there with my string at Oaklawn. We'll see."

Wherever he goes, watch out. Old Fashioned, who is owned by Rick Porter's Fox Hill Farms, is not just a speed burner like War Pass. He is much more than that. Granted, it is still very early and I am by no means calling him your Derby winner yet. But this colt is special. We'll be talking about him all spring long.

74 Comments:

Its never too early to talk about the Triple Crown run Jason and you are right Old Fashioned ran a very good race.  What was most impressive was his easy cruising speed after a half mile.  I will be very interested to see how he deals with early speed.  His next race will be very telling.  Vineyard Haven is still the one to beat with that very impressive early speed.  If no other horse steps up to show that early speed Vineyard could have his own way and never look back.  I have a feeling they will not see each other until Derby day.

Draynay 04 Dec 2008 1:12 PM

How cool it would be to see Eight Belles half-brother win the Derby! I wish Larry Jones and Fox Hill Farms all the best with this promising colt.

lacs70 04 Dec 2008 1:22 PM

Old Fashioned's female line goes back to Maggie B.B., which is a fun historical note.

Saxtonhill 04 Dec 2008 1:24 PM

  I saw Old Fashioned in the Remsen and was also very impressed. Right now I agree and he seems like the real deal. He certainly has one of the best, most caring trainers there is amd couldn't be in any better hands than Larry Jones. Larry more than deserves this horse and a Derby win. I was pulling for him with Hard Spun in '07 and Eight Belles this year. I very much wish him and his horses the very best in '09.

DONNA 04 Dec 2008 1:33 PM

Please please please stay sound and healthy next year! Can't wait to follow OF..take good care of him Larry for all of his fans :-)

Squeaky 04 Dec 2008 1:55 PM

I agree, Old Fashioned looks fantastic at this point. It's nice that Larry Jones is developing another promising colt.

Karen in Texas 04 Dec 2008 2:02 PM

Impressive indeed. He seems to have the ability to rate near the front and a nice closing kick. Those are the most important things for a Derby winner to have. I just hope the 2009 edition of the KY Derby is a much more competetive field. Last year was very dissapointing in light of the weak entries. On the first day in May that group was pathetic.

draynot 04 Dec 2008 2:04 PM

A big cheer for Larry Jones with another big horse. If you want to see some nice photos of Old Fashioned and Larry Jones you can go to the Final Turn Gallery. This horse ain't too shabby.

I don't know the female line that well but his dam, Collect Call, looks to be a good hard knocker from her race record. She traces to Ribot, rated #3 in the world for the 20th Century. That line includes Hoist the Flag (a sure Derby winner except for his injury) and the Monty Roberts trained Alleged, two time Arc winner. (There is a great story of Alleged through his 2nd year in the Roberts' book "The Horses In My Life")

Anyhow, I've sent out pics of Old Fashioned to all my "gray" fans, so their Derby is shaping up with Old Fashioned and Vineyard Haven. Life is a little easier when your partner has a Derby horse.

Besides Eight Belles, are there other concerns with Unbridled's Songs' offspring regarding soundness?

 

What are the soundness issues with offspring of Unbridled's Song?

Jim 04 Dec 2008 2:05 PM

Please, please don't retire Larry Jones! I was going to send him a fan letter in September when I heard about his retirement, but Im not sure if he'll ever read it. I have his address and even wrote the letter but i dont want to send it all the way from Ireland for nothing. Yes I know sending fan mail is kind of childish, Im 15.

Cant wait for the Triple Crown next year. This year was the first year I followed American racing but Im hooked. I logged on to the Kentucky Derby site (I didnt know about this one) nearly every day and followed the hype. I watched all of Curlins races as well as the Triple Crown and the Breeders cup. My favourite performance was Tough Tiz's Sis in the Go for Wand (I think?) She demolished the field. Pity she was injured, the one aspect of American racing I dont like is the breakdowns. But in Ireland many horses die too but they dont get the coverage. Its all PETA's fault. I really dislike them.

Majella from Ireland 04 Dec 2008 2:12 PM

I recommend his profile page on the Fair Hill Training Center website

fairhilltrainingcenter.com/oldf.html

Jim 04 Dec 2008 2:39 PM

heck no its not too early to start talking Derby! ive chewed thru about 50 Triple Crown races on youtube today, just finished reading "The Great Match Race", and I'm about to watch "The First Saturday in May" again...The Derby can't get here fast enough!

fast eddie 04 Dec 2008 3:02 PM

like this horse and a couple of us fob's had him on our watch list for awhile so it was good to see him run--he did a couple things i was very impressed with.

whitney 04 Dec 2008 3:12 PM

Never too early to talk about the K.D. and Old Fashioned is one to really keep an eye out for. He's beautiful and looks so much like Eight Belles; I rooted for her last year and so far Old Fashioned is my derby horse... i hope Michael Matz starts Nicanor soon too, im sure like many others ive wanted to see that colt run for awhile. Lets pray these two year olds stay sound and healthy and all have safe carreers.

Silver Charm 04 Dec 2008 3:34 PM

Hey Jason,

I've seen debates go around about the sprint & HOY divisions, but what about the Juvenile? Who's your take on who should get the 2 year old crown?

Oh yea, Old Fashioned looks awesome! Although he did tend to lug in a good bit in the stretch. Although it could be to Ramon D's doing. Is it just me or why is it that I see Ramon D. come for home on a horse they're always lugging in? (Cocoa Beach, Court Vision, Better Talk Now, Tapit to name a few)He seems to have much of a hard time switching leads on horses than the other top jocks I've seen. Granted he's won some big races lately, and Dan Illman from DRF believe's he is greatly underrated..which may be true but his style of riding really bugs me. I guess whatever gets the job done, right?

THE ROCK 04 Dec 2008 3:52 PM

The Rock: Juvenile champion is a tough one. Maybe I'll tackle that one next week in a blog post. Truthfully, I havent done much research on that division. I'll respectfully wait to give you my final opinion until I do. Just from a quick first look though, I would say Midshipman would have to be the frontrunner based on his 2 grade I wins, including the BC. What do you think?

jshandler 04 Dec 2008 4:14 PM

I'm thankful that Old Fashioned is with Fox Hill Farm and Larry Jones because, hopefully, they will protect him from the Sheik and the Dubai gang  grabbing him up for a bizillion dollars or the IEAH gang as well. I'd love to see Larry win the Derby.  He certainly deserves it.

Speedball 04 Dec 2008 4:19 PM

I agree with Jim - let's go gray for the Derby in '09, with Old Fashioned, Vineyard Haven and bring Donativum back across the pond!

I didn't see the Remsen.  Thanks SO MUCH for writing this so I could get to the video.  Very impressive - sitting chilly until there was something to run for!

And Majella from Ireland - never underestimate the pleasure a letter could bring someone.  It might seem childish, but everyone likes to know their work is appreciated.

Let's hope they all have a good winter and spring!

s lee 04 Dec 2008 4:55 PM

I love Old Fashioned!!  What a show he put on, and Larry Jones is great. It would be so great to see him win the Derby next year!!

Brian A. 04 Dec 2008 5:36 PM

You know Jason, it's a tough call. Although Vineyard Havens' wins were impressive albeit going one turn, I'd have to agree with you. Given the sample of horses that came from the East Coast for the BC Juvenile and it being the BC Juvenile, Midshipman beat em' and won it. 2 G1's for each horse. Both on either synthetic & dirt. BC triumphs in a tie breaker. Although YOU KNOW this discussion will get ugly when you start throwing in the dirt and synthetic theories around and for the first time in a while, an East/West Coast debate on strength in competition. It's gonna be alot of fun Jason. LOL.

THE ROCK 04 Dec 2008 6:18 PM

Old Fashioned has some negatives:-

DOB- 01/27/2006

A January foal has not won the Derby in ages. Thre are two other January foals that are showing ability i.e., Capt. Candyman Can & Bethoveen.

Purchase price $800,000

Four of the last five KD winners,  were homebred and the fifth Big Brown had an initial price of  $190k . Expensive horses rarely win the Derby.

Dam Earnings - $434,000

Even with increased purses no derby wining dam has broken $400K in 50 years. only two broke $330K in earnings. High earners rarely produce derby  horses. However, her bloodline is excellent.

M Palmer 04 Dec 2008 7:22 PM

lacs70, Old Fashioned is not a half brother to Eight Belles. Horses are siblings by their dams not their sires.

M Palmer 04 Dec 2008 7:26 PM

I agree Jason that Old Fashioned looks good enough to make every Derby watcher's short list.  At present he is ranked #5 on my list (which may likely be revised after the Delta Jackpot) behind Big Drama, Vineyard Haven, Breakwater Edison and Midshipman.  Anyway it is early days yet and we can only hope the these youngsters remain sound.

Ranagulzion 04 Dec 2008 7:32 PM

I'm shocked and chagrinned! Have we not learned? The horse waltzed...with zippy pressure applied by any other animal! When horses get loose on the lead, they have a distinct advantage, and that advantage will not exist when he looks another horse in the eye earlier in a race. He may still be the best prospect, but racing rules stil apply to most every class level. Loose on the lead doesn't cut in the classics!!!!!!

rick 04 Dec 2008 8:18 PM

Rick: Look at his maiden win. It wasnt loose on the lead at all. He rated well and won after a tough stretch dual. This horse doesnt need the lead to win. You will see that next year.

jshandler 04 Dec 2008 8:29 PM

Most impressive performance by a 2-year old or most impressive performance by a 2-year old male? In my mind, the girls have been much more impressive than the boys this year in the 2-year old division.

Vespone 04 Dec 2008 9:02 PM

He better run his final 3/8th in :36+ after crawling and having things his way on the front end!..

I second Ricks'analysis:loose on the lead types are impressive looking,but once they're pressured/headed,it's a WHOLE NEW ballgame.Especially in 2 turn routes..let's wait and see before you start anointing him,shall we?

The Top 2yo this year in the US by far is Stardom Bound,regardless of sex!..She's a proven Machine,the way she closes into ANY kind of splits..and,we know she loves 2 turns..kinda' reminds me of the Great Rags to Riches..we'll see,can't wait til' they start gearing-up for the Spring!

Slew.em.All 04 Dec 2008 10:24 PM

3rd time could be the charm for him he deserves it....A bomb threat on my derby watch is WELL POSITIONED watch his last race at Aqueduct 11-22 race#6 he broke his maiden by 18 and he has the same owner as Big Brown did last year Paul Pompa,could lightning strike twice?

Inquiry 04 Dec 2008 11:53 PM

I have to agree with Slew.em.All running such slow fractions and finishing strong is not all that impressive.  Back early in OCTOBER Vineyard Haven unleashed a 22.74, 45.59. and a 1:10.53 and finished with ease and was in total control just past the half mile pole.  As of today he has had 2 more months to mature and I am scared to think what he will look like in another 2 months.  Make no mistake the horse to beat is Vineyard Haven.

Draynay 05 Dec 2008 8:52 AM

I wish Larry Jones the best. He's

seems to have genuine concern for

his charges. Hope he doesn't send

Old Fashioned to Oaklawn as I've

heard from trainers over the last

two years that it's not a good training suface. I like the fact that Mr. Jones is so "hands on"

and gets on the horses but maybe

he should use a light weight exercise rider(one that knows how

to ride, if he can find one) in the

mornings until Old Fashioned finds

his balance. The dirt tracks cause

a horse to be too much on the forehand too soon.

bheinz01 05 Dec 2008 9:24 AM

I just watched the video.  Reminds me a lot of Unbridled with that head slightly lower and ears pinned perfectly.  I can only hope that he stays happy and healthy.  

hrseldy 05 Dec 2008 9:30 AM

I have always said Larry Jones is one of the best in the business. I loved Hard Spun's determination and heart, and followed Eight Belles during her short heartbreaking career. Leave it to Larry Jones and Rick Porter to come along with another Unbridled Song baby. Old Fashioned demolished the Remsen field in very impressive fashion. All the while making it look effortless. You can bet ill be watching this one. I imagine Larry will follow the same road to the derby that he had Hard Spun on. He reminds me of another Fox Hill horse, Rockport Harbor, as far as looks go. It seems Old Fashioned has more ability then Rocky did.

mdfanofracing 05 Dec 2008 9:48 AM

Draynay: Vineyard Haven hasnt gone more than a mile yet. I'll take my chances with the colt that has proven he can handle nine furlongs already, with ease.

jshandler 05 Dec 2008 11:22 AM

Point well taken Jason... but didn't they say that about Ravens Pass...?  Like my track coach always said... "You can't teach speed"  A 49 and change half doesn't scare anyone.

Draynay 05 Dec 2008 11:39 AM

Dray: I'll repeat myself: He went :47 in his allowance win and can go faster than that if he wants. He has speed. Jones said his speed is as good as Hard Spun. He didnt have to use it in the Remsen.

jshandler 05 Dec 2008 11:57 AM

I too thought Old Fashioned's victory was impressive. And I love Larry and Mr. Porter, so I hope only good things for them.  I was wondering what Jason thinks of Charitable Man and if he is coming back. I haven't read anything about his progress other that he had to stop because of an injury. I don't even know if it was major or minor. Anyone know? Also how about that Unbridle Song soundness problem, what gives? Hes had some long raced good ones (I think).

Rggc 05 Dec 2008 12:04 PM

As so many have said, how cool that would be for Larry Jones after Hard Spun & Eight Belles. I recall making some good money, in a similar scenario, after Bob Baffert came so close with Cavonnier, the next year it seemed like all the cards pointed to Silver Charm in the '97 Derby. So much can happen between now and May. However if there are Derby Gods out there, who would be more deserving than Mr. Jones?  Go Larry!

OLD TIMER 05 Dec 2008 12:16 PM

Old Fashioned looks great. He is however, running in November with a less than stellar cast. I'll wait for the March/ April "playoffs" before casting my final approval. Besides I'm a sucker for a closer as witnessed by my infatuation with Pyro earlier. I think I've mentioned it here on occasion.

Alex 05 Dec 2008 12:40 PM

I have to comment on bheinz01's post.

First of all as long as the gallup boy isn't 160+ pounds,weight isn't an issue. In fact if the horse is galluping properly some weight is good as that builds muscle and matures bone in a young horse.

Second of all racehorses do not run on the forehand, their balance is shifted towards the hind end. If a horse shifts his weight towards the front end he's having issues behind and if he runs that way very long he's going to be pretty sore up front.

Lastly Mr.Jones has been galluping horses for a long time and has many years experince bringing along a young horse. If he thought for one minute that this colt wasn't ready for the races being as you say " not balanced" he would not have started him and would have waited for the colt to grow into himself.

Wanda 05 Dec 2008 12:58 PM

In my opinion, the derby winner hasn't run yet. Still waiting for that one horse that catches the eye, even though there have been some performances that might have caught the eye for others. I haven't seen Well Positioned's maiden win yet. Kinda curious what that looked like. But until then, I think our derby winner as of now will make his/hers debut as a 3 year old in either Gulfstream or Santa Anita. I will say this though, if Stardom Bound keeps improving and stays undefeated into next year, look out! Although, females tend to develop faster than males do at this time of year, the two year old males as of this point have been uninspiring. And to add this in, if given the opportunity, I think the fillies & mares going into next year can make some noise in the handicap division against their male counteparts.

THE ROCK 05 Dec 2008 1:14 PM

Dray,

Once again, you contradict yourself:

"Its never too early to talk about the Triple Crown run Jason and you are right Old Fashioned ran a very good race.  What was most impressive was his easy cruising speed after a half mile."

"I have to agree with Slew.em.All running such slow fractions and finishing strong is not all that impressive."

You confuse me. I never know which way you are going with a horse. Was his race impressive, or not?

Anyway, let's just hope they all stay sound!

Melissa 05 Dec 2008 2:02 PM

I understand your confusion Melissa but I was making two different observations.  If you watch the race carefully you will notice that he ran with great ease after a half mile and finishing strong should be expected considering his early fractions were slow.(We will see what he does when he faces real speed)  My main point is this... Vineyard Haven has won back to back G1 races and has looked great doing it against some very good competition.  His last race was 2 months ago and I am sure he is little older and a little stronger today than he was 2 months ago...... that by itself is plenty scary.  The fact that few 2 year olds have shown the speed Vineyard has displayed tells me they have a long way to catch up to his level.  Old Fasioned ran a good race but he has never seen a horse like Vineyard Haven and until he does my money is on Vineyard.

Draynay 05 Dec 2008 3:37 PM

Has Vineyard Haven faced anyone like Old Fashioned?  I am sure that would be a legitimate question as well.  A distance of a mile and an eight on dirt.

Rlarisoa 05 Dec 2008 4:33 PM

Dray,

Thanks for the explanation!

I do very much enjoy watching both of them, and I can't wait to see them run against one another sometime.

Here's to the both of them!

Melissa 05 Dec 2008 5:00 PM

no way this horse lopes along to a 49 in the derby hes not winning .

steve 05 Dec 2008 5:05 PM

I have to agree with The Rock. As of now I think Stardom Bound is the best 2 y/o right now, regardless of sex. And the best horses that are coming back next year are girls. Hopefully J Shireffs will give the people what they want and run Zenyatta against the boys. And Cocoa Beach could be a monster in the making. Plus I think Music Note and Proud Spell are coming back (I hope).

barb 05 Dec 2008 5:12 PM

As for Old Fashioned, I was impressed with his Remsen win and would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Larry Jones win the Derby. As for Ramon D. ... What is up with him? I have noticed him doing something off lately too. Most notably was the BC Turf with Better Talk Now...I was really upset with him that day. I would like to see Gabe Saez get the mount on Old Fashioned.

barb 05 Dec 2008 5:18 PM

Steve: Thanks for the heads up. We'll all make sure to throw him out of the Derby, based on your astute analysis.

jshandler 05 Dec 2008 5:23 PM

Melissa... I have two words for you.

SQUARE EDDIE.... if he takes to dirt look out.

Draynay 05 Dec 2008 5:32 PM

Holy cow people you can make observations all you want at this point, but you sure can't make any Derby calls in Dec. Talk about up and coming stars but please lets leave the Derby talk alone till next spring.

Wanda 05 Dec 2008 5:55 PM

You know Barb, it just hit me...he could be getting ready for the Aqueduct inner-track meet coming up with the way he's been cornering with these horses lately! LOL. I mean seriously, he looks like Martin Pedroza @ Fairplex the way he's riding these horses. I hope Godolphin puts Frankie D. on Cocoa Beach. Although it could just take one loss for that type of rider switch. I mean I really don't mean to bash the guy. And who am I to question his riding technique when he is winning. But this kind of style where is horses are having a hard time switching leads in the lane is going to catch up to him sooner or later. Especially in a lucrative race.

THE ROCK 05 Dec 2008 7:10 PM

Dray,

He's a good one too! I liked his race before the BC, and I was rooting for him to win.

It's really going to be interesting to see who develops into nice 3 yo's.

Curious, what do you think of Stardom Bound?

Melissa 05 Dec 2008 9:41 PM

Jason, Big Drama won the Delta Jackpot tonight beating a contentious field of 2yo colts quite impressively and galloped out looking very good.  He ought to be on everyone's short list of Kentucky Derby hopefuls.  He displayed pace,good mid-race speed and resoluteness up the lane and deserve to be right up there with Old Fashioned.  As of now he remains still marginally ahead of Vineyard Haven and Breakwater Edison on my list.  What say you?  

Ranagulzion 06 Dec 2008 1:20 AM

Ranagulzion: I was also impressed with Big Drama. Looking forward to seeing the speed numbers for the race, but he did beat a pretty good field. I thought Bernie had him in the stretch but he dug in. Good to see a Derby contender come out of Florida and with a trainer that isnt high profile.

jshandler 06 Dec 2008 9:42 AM

What do you think of Idol Maker and American Dance? Do you think they can turn out to be decent horses?  I also was very impressed with Old Fashioned's win.  Big Drama is toward the top of my list too.

BittelRoad 06 Dec 2008 2:28 PM

I have to agree with the ole loose on the lead objections. it took me awhile to be a believer but you start making money when you throw out these horses when they step up(throw them out of even the superfx). The fractions were beyond slow so he better have been able to run :36. It was a long workout. We'll see. I also think the "not asked" thing is over rated. Often times, asking doesn't translate into that many more legnths, if any.

Edgk 06 Dec 2008 3:40 PM

old fashioned is something special. he got an 85 beyer when he broke his maiden, a 96 in his alllowance romp, and a 100 beyer speed figure in the remsen. i dont care what you people say. OF has speed, he just didnt need to flash it in the remsen. vineyard haven and midshipman are going to be shipped off to dubai and probly come back right before the derby. im sorry but i dont believe that is the proper way to prepare a horse for the biggest race of their life. OF is a really nice looking colt and will shine in the spring. hes definitely my top derby horse, adn i dont care how early it is. square eddie is another good one to keep an eye out for. based on how the synthetic horses ran in the derby last year, it doesnt look good for him, but i think hes got the talent. its nice to see the local guys get a good derby contender in OF once again. i think this is the one thats gonna get it done.

groomebear 07 Dec 2008 3:52 PM

Nice 2 coming 3 year old. Derby prospect? What a crapshoot.

That's why you get the great prices on the futures.

Noms not even in the picture quite yet. Ask a trainer to say yay or nay right now and they'd cringe, what a way to jinx yourself. Usually the owners talking like that now.

Enough trouble just getting them through the Preps without speculating NOW>

Atthebarn2 07 Dec 2008 6:31 PM

Hey Atthebarn how are you buddy? I have to agree with you at this point they are just nice 2yr olds.How's the weather in your end of the world. It snowed big time here today and the roads will be bad in the morning hopefully there is no bad accidents, but I won't keep my fingers crossed.

Wanda 07 Dec 2008 10:20 PM

Vineyard already has 2 very impressive G1 wins and won both showing very good speed.  Unless someone shows they can stay with him he will likely dictate future races.

Square Eddie on dirt will be very interesting in the early part of 2009.  The Florida Derby winner has done well in the Kentucky Derby lately so I will have an eye on Gulfstream for sure.

Draynay 08 Dec 2008 11:36 AM

Wanda, broke my own pledge. It's cold, rain tomorrow, snow day after. Heading to a slightly warmer clime but who knows? It's winter after all.

That fella's eye is going to get awful tired keeping an it on a race over 3 1/2 months away. You work towards something like that but in regards to horses of this caliber that is a life time.

Atthebarn2 08 Dec 2008 3:30 PM

Yeah I hear you. I've been going to the OTB here to watch the 2yr olds. Fair Grounds,Hollywood,Calder etc. I spotted a couple I like that nobodys even talking about. Just goes to show you that alot of them look good right now.

Have a good ship Atthe and don't be a stranger okay?

Wanda 08 Dec 2008 5:31 PM

I was extremely impressed with the Remsen, i had never heard of any of the horses in the field really, but know that the race is good for producing derby horses, so i like to watch it, and boy did i get a treat! I know Old Fashion had soft fractions, but still a mid pack horse or stalker should've had the energy to challenge him. I have never seen his first two races, but to win any race by 15 is impressive, and the come back under a hold to win by 7 in a stakes is fantasic. This horse was should've have been at least been let out some, and never was. RD even said the only reason he used his whip was to keep the colt straight, and to run 36 while lugging in, soft fractions or not is pretty darn good. He may not win the Derby or he may, but one thing that's for sure is that he is a colt to be reckoned with and will be a major player next year, especially with some of our top two year olds headed east to Dubai.

LDP 08 Dec 2008 6:29 PM

Time matters... and Indygo Mountain runs Thursday in a tough group of 3 year olds.  Last time out Indygo ran a 1:35 mile... with a little move forward this may be one to watch.

Draynay 09 Dec 2008 11:50 AM

Gotta laugh at the way nay nay likes one horse, then another, then another, etc. probably until he almost covers the entire field of next years 3 yr olds. I guess that way he can say come the first sat. in may that he "touted" the winner way back in 08. it never hurts to cover all your bases I guess. kinda like betting the field and hoping a long shot comes in so you break even or make a little.

draynot 09 Dec 2008 1:27 PM

HELLO JASON:

GREAT BLOG! I AGREE W/ YOU,BUT I ALSO LIKE VERY MUCH,STARDOM BOUND& MIDSHIPMAN. WILL BOB CONTINUE TO TRAIN HIM?

MIKE RELVA 09 Dec 2008 4:07 PM

If Larry Jones says Old Fashioned is the best horse at this point in his career I am buying it.Better then Eight Belles,Proud Spell and Hard Spun who was the only horse to come in front of Curlin twice and would have won the Classic this year considering his best races were on synthetic tracks, if he ran as a four year old.I have a feeling Larry will not retire at the end of this year with a horse like Old Fashioned.

Philliesarehorses 09 Dec 2008 8:03 PM

Given the recent history of the derby,no one should be getting this excited so early. Outside of Street Sense,the derby winner wasn't known to anyone before january-(big brown,Barboro etal)while you may be right about OF; let's just wait awhile until the early 3 yr stake races are run. remember Curlin didn't even start until january--good luck anyway--Shug may have a horse there also

misting 10 Dec 2008 10:18 AM

After looking at OLD FASHIONED a bit more i have to say i wouldnt play him in the Derby only because his dosage is 5.22 even though he did get 1 1/8

Inquiry 10 Dec 2008 12:16 PM

Mike: Baffert will not train Midshipman anymore. he is in Dubai.

jshandler 10 Dec 2008 1:17 PM

Philliesarehorses,

Larry is retiring at the end of next year -2009 after the Breeders Cup. My guess is he's getting out at a good time, in a couple years when the economy hopefully rebounds a little he'll be back.

He just doesn't have the personality to deal with all the stresses at the top IMHO. The being pulled in a million directions and the sometimes mean scrutiny.

Just a handful of guys have that demeanor and toughness and even less who can handle it for 30-40+ years.

Atthebarn2 10 Dec 2008 8:17 PM

Lol... you're right Draynot what was I thinking liking 2 or 3 young horses before 2009.  Out of thousands I should just pick one to watch or have interest in.  Why wait to pick the Derby winner in March or April when I can just do it in December.  Why share any information with this blog or opinions? Why not just sit silent and wait until after the race in May to brag I knew it all along. Better yet Draynot why not save your weak opinions for when it actually matters. Maybe it would be better right now to offer some insight on talented 2 year old horses instead of needling me into commenting on your sophomoric drivel. Just a thought...

Draynay 10 Dec 2008 10:10 PM

Inquiry,

If you are throwing Old Fashioned out of the Derby based on a dosage of 5.22, maybe you should look at the 1999 Derby winner!! (Dosage - 5.22)

"Sometimes the numbers can be, well, just numbers."

I am certain if you were holding the "Old Fashioned" hand, you would be singing a slightly different tune!

Let's give a shout out to the 'good guys'.  I'll be rooting for Larry Jones and the memory of Eight Belles.

Kent D. Hersman 11 Dec 2008 12:18 AM

I read Draynot's comments and went thru the blogs from Feb till May. He's right about you know who. He was touting Pyro,Visionaire and Tale of Ekati in Feb till Jason made comments about BB on Mar08. Then he was all over BB. I remember that because of Jason's comments I put BB in my roadtotheroses stable.

Seems to me that Jason was the guy who gave the heads up early on BB.

Wanda 11 Dec 2008 5:22 PM

Dray many think the same oppinions of you, and honestley if you want to sit and be silent and not share your oppinions with the blog be my guest. Nobody on here likes the fact that you shove your oppinion down peoples throat or that your a bandwagon jumper. I believe you first comment on here was about how fantasitc Old Fashion was, then you go to vinyard haven, square eddie. Why don't you cover all the top contenders for next years derby. You wonder why nobody on here takes you seriously this is why.

LDP 12 Dec 2008 12:18 PM

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