I still want Einstein to win. Alas, Rachel and Zenyatta have made a more convincing case though.

Zenyatta's Pride will not win HOY this year, maybe she will get older female HOY but, c'mon, she hasn't raced outside of CA and she has raced with no competition! Rachel will win for sure, at least she runs with boys!

If, IF, Zenyatta runs in and wins the Classic there is not a shot in anywhere that anybody else gets HOTY.

What if Rachel wins out through the Traverse and wins the Beldame, then dodges the BC...  Let's say Zenyatta wins out and powers home in the Classic, beating Einstein and Gio Ponti...  Let's say the nation clamors for the two great mares to meet, Let's say they collide at Churchill in late November and Zenyatta rolls Rachel by daylight on the square...  then who say you?

HORSE OF YEAR SEALED UP IF RACHEL WINS TRAVERS BATING MALES TWICE if it HAPPENS

Rachel is already better then Ruffian and a few wins from a better 3 year old campaign then Secretariat.

It is time to tell it like it is Jason and you are 100% correct. The path is the Haskell, Alabama, and then the Beldame at Belmont. Rachel's 9 for 9 season places her with the best all time and makes her the greatest 3 year old filly ever.  Those 3 wins cement her as HOY and there is nothing anyone can do about it.  Would I like to see her in the Travers...yes but beating males at the Preakness and at the Haskell proves the point enough and finishing the year in the Beldame against older horses puts the icing on the cake. Watching the Mother Goose again and then watching races of the greats 40 or 50 years ago you realize just how amazing her 133 split in the mile really was.  Add to the face she finishes in under 13 seconds while being eased 200 yards before the wire.  I listen to Haskin on youtube talk about the amazing Dr. Fager and Damascus but Rachel ran a 133 mile like it was nothing ! Is there any doubt she could run a mile race in 132 ?

The article is fun and well done Jason but to be real honest there is no other horse in the running.  They can't stop history, they can't stop Rachel.  At some point you have to look at the clock and shake your head and say who can do this ?  Zenyatta posting another 148 doesn't scare anyone.  Let's see her post a 146 she hasn't been close this year.  The Hakell, the Alabama, the Beldame and its over for HOY long before the Breeders Cup ever comes up.  9 races 9 wins and perhaps the greatest 3 year old season by any horse in history.

I believe that you are reaching, reaching for something to keep Rachel from garnering HOY honors.  As of right now a win in the Haskell would signify two grade 1 wins against colts in historically significant races on dirt.  You can grip all you want about how you think that the B.C. is where championships are won, and that would be a legitimate statement if the B.C. were being run over Dirt.  The synthetics have invalidated the running of the B.C. and to put this into better perspective for you, the winner of numerous Eclipse Awards either didnt participate in the B.C. last year or ran well below what they had previously done on dirt. That would include Curlin, Proud Spell, Benny the Bull, Indian Blessing & Big Brown.  Eclipse awards are not an indication of 1 race as you and some West coast people want to think it is just because the B.C. and is held in Cali. (This is why Bob Baffert is still upset that Midnight Lute didnt win Champion Sprinter)  But Consider the number of horses that wont be travelling to run out there this year. Rachel Alexandra, Regal Ransom, Macho Again, Quality Road, Munnings, Friesan Fire, Jonesboro, Indian Blessing, Desert Party, Smooth Air, Seattle Smooth, Kodiak Kowboy, Justwhistledixie and others thats not the full list.  So looking at last years results, it wasnt all about the B.C. because its not getting the same respect, at least the dirt races arent, because its on a synthetic surface.  And might I add, thumbs down to the naive board members of the Breeders Cup who would make such an ignorant move as putting the dirt races of the Breeders Cup on synthetics, but also having the event out in California for 2 straight years.  That was rank amateur at best and I understand now why they are struggling to keep up with the Sheiks and their Dubai World Cup, at least they respect tradition over there and run their races on traditional dirt.

It's so funny that I can spot a Draynay comment within the first sentence. I hope you don't share all that hostility with everyone you meet. Its really not healthy for you either.

I love Zenyata, but if she doesn't go outside of Ca and she only beat the girls she can't be horse of the year. Right now I say Racheal,Gio, Presious, and the little Bird have the lead going into this far, but alot can happen in the fall.

So glad the Jersey Shore will get to host RA. Thank you Jess Jackson, you know the NJ fans will treat you right.

Zenyatta frankly got robbed last year!  She deserves to be horse of the year.  I have a good feeling that their going to run her in the classic.  And she is going to own it!  

Dray: If Rachel ever goes up against Quality Road she will finally have someone who can match her speed. Regardless, I don't think she's winning the Haskell.

RACHAEL ran 1:46.33 in one turn race.MUST be adjusted to two turn time say maybe 1:47.33

IF RACHAEL WINS HASKELL game over

At the risk of diverting this discussion, I think draynay has said something that few of us have the guts or objectivity to say. As a three year old, RA is probably better than Ruffian. She's beaten the boys, and will probably do so again. I agree with Jason that a win in the Travers makes her a lock for HOY. And at that point, no one can dispute that she would be the greatest three year old filly of all time. Even Ruffian.

Although I believe Zenyatta is the best in the country right now, it's all purely speculation as long as she's holed up in California. But if she wins the Classic? Then she deserves HOY.

If Quality Road makes a comeback this summer and runs in the Travers, Rachel would face her stiffest challenge yet.  Quality Road is a monster and I think he will really shake things up the second half of the year.  Might be why she won't show up for the Travers...

Rach will win the haskell there is not stiff competition in that race. Dray your obsessed with times get over it! I agree that if Rach wins the travers game set match. I think that Rach will go to the travers and then J Jackson will think long and hard about the breeders cup...he changed his mind with curlin so why not with RA. By the way if RA goes to travers she will finally meet her match especially if my boy QR is cranked up and ready to roll!

The Goodwood Stakes at Oak Tree Santa Anita could be the key race.  I think that Zenyatta will take on the males there since the race is 1 1/8.  After that she will race in the Ladies Classic at the Breeder Cup.  And do not forget Rail Trip.  If he wins the Pacific Classic in Del Mar, the Goodwood Stakes and then the Breeder Cup Classic he is the HOTY.

IMO East Coast votes always seem to prevail. Even if ZENYATTA earns HOTY honors, Jess Jackson seems to have "clout' and gets the nod. Sigh...

GIRL POWER!!! ;-)

p.s. I still adore MINE THAT BIRD!!

Jason,

Am I wrong or has the Kentucky Derby lost it's luster?  Otherwise, why wouldn't you consider Mine that Bird for Horse of the Year honors?  There is no other race or combination of races that equal a Kentucky Derby win.  In my opinion, if Mine that Bird wins the Travers he is Horse of the Year.  The Derby and the Travers now that's an unbeatable one two punch!

If Rachel beats the boys in the Haskell, HOY is over.  I don't think it should matter anyway.  She has already done more this year than many past HOY winners and she is clearly the best horse in training.  

Draynay, hold off a bit on your "few wins better than Secretariat's 3 year old campaign."  There is no equal for Secretariat's domination in the Triple Crown, setting two track records still intact today, domination of possibly the greatest collection of older horses in one race in track record time in the Marlboro Cup, and then his defeat older horses twice on turf in record time."

First, let me say this, Draynay isn't hostile. He is opinionated with a CAPITAL O but he is not hostile. Passionate about his opinion is the way I would put it and frankly even though I sure don't awlays agree with him, I like the fact that when he loves a horse, he loves her/him with his whole heart. Plus he has schnauzers. Enough said.

I think this comes down to three horses and three hroses only-Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, and Einstein.  I agree with Jason and Draynay somewhat. Rachel has to win the Travers and Haskell to shut everyone out. If she does that, the rest can whistle Dixie and win the BCC tap dancing and it won't matter. If however, she wins the Haskell and not the Travers, and Zenyatta runs in the BCC against the Euro Uber horses and our boys, and WINS, I think it goes to Zenyatta (sorry about the run on sentence).

Einstein also has a chance if Rachel gets rocked at the Haskell or Travers and Zenyatta doesn't get entered into the BCC and/or doesn't win. Part of me is rooting for Eisntein because he is an older horse and still winning Grade I's. You have to love a horse that does that.

So it boils dwon to what everyone actually runs in and what the competition does or doesn't do. Quality Road is the X factor in all this. If he starts firing on all cylinders, that is going to mix it up but good.

BUT if Draynay is right and Rachel is the female equivalent of Secretariat, then it isn't going to matter what any of the other horses do, it's a done deal.

I love them all. What a great year.

draynay,

Let's see now, what has RA really done so far this year? She's beaten up on some really really mediocre 3 yr old fillies. Sure I agree she's at the top of that class but it didn't take her much to get there.

She's beaten a "fluke" or "derby mud winner" by a diminishing length on a fast track. That is  your own description of the best "male" she's beaten draynay. If she wins the Haskell over Summer Bird she will only be beating another "male" who has split his decisions against your "freak". None of this makes her great by your descriptions of who she has or will beat.

As for the greatest 3 yr old campaign in history I wouldn't include any that didn't add up to a Triple Crown. To run and win those three grueling races in such a condensed period of time is remarkable. Ra was held out of the Belmont because she didn't have the stamina to run 3 races in that span of time. Never mind that the first of those three wasn't the KY Derby it was the much easier Oaks. How much better could others from the past have performed if they had spaced out their races in their 3 yr old campaigns? I won't dispute that if she wins out the rest of the year it will be exceptional and I won't jump on the greatest 3 yr old campaign in history for a horse who didn't take the ultimate test in class and stamina.

Jason,

    For the past ten year the winner of the Travers has has no bearing on the HOTY or top three year old. What i've noticed is that winning 2 jewls will get you an award, and if you win only one a win against older horses will get you an award as long as you raced in either the Traver or Haskel, more horses have gone to the Haskel. Another thing a horse could do is what Point Given did which is just be so much the best in his group by winning almost all the top races for three year olds. Since your a fan of him i am sure you know that though he did not win the derby he came back and dominated in the Preakness Belmont Haskell and Travers. This was also because the defending older horse Tiznow, though winner of another heart pounding Classic was only making his third start, i believe of the year. I'm not in anyway down grading the Travers, because champions to come to it, like Bernardini, Birdstone and SS. What i'm saying is that it is not the be all end all to championships. For example Smarty and Alex never raced past the crown and still earned an eclipse. Curlin raced in the Preakness ran 3rd in the haskel and won both the JCGC and Classic, he earned both top 3yr old and HOTY. The Travers is a great race and does attract the top horses, but recently it has not attacted the top of that particular crop. As i said still an important race, but other things trump it.

Snow,

    Bird has only won one jewl of the Crown, meaning he's got to go and beat or run well against the best of his generation again and win against older horses to be in consideration. That is the recent trend of things it seems.

The Derby mud winner HOY ? Are you kidding me ? He has won 1 race all year ! He won't even win the WV Apple Picnic Stakes against Big Drama and you want to mention him as possible HOY ?  Didn't you watch Rachel whip him already in the Preakness ? Zenyatta take on males ? Lol ... yeah right very funny the horse is FIVE years old and NEVER taken on males... good luck with that wish.

if zenyatta shows up in the classic and if sea the stars is also entered in the classic then zenyatta will have to work harder than she ever has to beat the best horse in europe since dubai millennium. since sea the stars proved that he's great but he can prove to be better than dubai millennium and maybe nijinsky ll if he comes over and walks all over whatever race he's ran in.

i mean sea the stars is the most likely choice for the cartier horse of the yr and 3yr old champion off of his wins in the 2,000 guineas, the english derby and then he trounced his elders including last yr's bc turf winner conduit in the eclipse stakes.

Zenyatta is not fast enough to win the BC Classic at SA.  She would not have even come close against the males in the BC Classic last year.  Thus, Z's owners will not run her in the BC Classic.  

Speed, flash, grit and difficulty of opponents decide the HOY.  Given Z's weight assignments (against weaker opponents) in the handicaps it is more difficult to blow her female opponents away by open lengths like Rachel is able to do.  

I agree Rachel will need to do the following to be HOY:

-Win the Haskell in flashy fashion (given a weaker field)

-Win the Alabama by open lengths

-Win the Beldame

Jess Jackson will not run her 10F this year.  He will allow her to run at the distance she runs best 9F.  The opponents she races will definitely be weak, (although the Belmont winner will be in the Haskell) they will be much better than those Zenyatta will face.

There are two males that have a chance at HOY:

Einstein- who could have four G1 victories by the year's end on two different surfaces.

Well Armed- If he comes back and wins the BC Classic after winning the Dubai Classic it would be very difficult not to vote for a horse who wins over $6 million in two races.

I hope that rail trip wins HOTY he is the truth! Watch his last race he romped that field and is an upcoming superstar... I think he will win the classic if he can stay healthy! When is the last time a 50-1 has one horse of the year, MTB hasnt done enough to win HOTY its a mute point because he cant win the travers either!

Zenyatta, even if she wins the Breeders Cup Classic, will lose HOY to Rachel Alexandra if that one  wins the Haskell and Travers.  

Giving the Classic to Zenyatta off a crummy campaign against crappy California fields would be like giving it to Volponi in 2002.  

I highly doubt we'll see RA in the Travers,1 1/4m against the top 3yo colts at their peak will be too much for her to handle. Yeah,she won the Preakness,but the only horse of significance she beat was the Derby winner MTB who some consider a phony..and she BARELY beat him. If you look at the fields she's faced so far,they've been average at best. Winning the Haskell against so-so colts will look good on her resume,but if the top 3yo's like IWR,QR and The 'Mousse wouldn't have gotten injured this spring,I'm sure RA would not have been entered in the Preakness or Haskell and all this talk about HOTY would be moot. Sure RA is a very good filly,but she needs to beat a strong field of colts in the Travers,or beat an accomplished field of older fillies/mares then head-out West to meet the Best in the BC, plain and simple. No kudos if you're taking the easy path to stardom.

Isn't one of the strongest crop of 3 yos? Are you kidding me? All season long prior to now everyone has stated it was one of the strongest fields in recent memories. What else does this filly have to do? Seems she can't get no respect. Believe me, I respect Zenyatta and Einstein, especially, but if the filly continues to roll the way she has, she should get the HOY honors. While diehard fans see the worth of the other horses mentioned, you can't ignore the new fans that Rachel is bringing to the sport, that has to be factored in.

I could swear I read somewhere that the new Meydan race course in Dubai went with a synthetic surface, not traditional dirt.  Am I wrong?  If I'm right, why would they have done such a thing?  To get more European horses to the World Cup?  Americans have won most of the runnings of the WC.  Will this change now because the top horses from here won't go (like the SA Breeders' Cup situation)?

Rachel's female competition has been pathetic. I'm sorry but has she beaten any filly who's achieved anything? Stardom Bound still isn't in the picture & she most likley won't meet Zenyatta. She also hasn't faced the strongest males out there. Has everyone forgotten Quality Road? He'd win by daylight if/when they meet. Also should any of the males who were running well early in the years make a successful return (I want revenge / the pamplemouse) she wouldn't get by them either.

Lets be serious, the filly has done some pretty amazing things thus far - but shes no Ruffian. Shes no Personal Ensign. Shes no Go For Wand. Shes got an amazing fan base and thats wonderful .But HOTY... no on that point too. Einstein at this point should be ahead of everyone else. Followed by the undfeated Queen Zen, then Rachel & MTB.

Rachel may have bested Ruffian's margin but Ruffian had way better competition and faced more horses. Sign of the times - a horse can come home beating nobodies & all of a sudden they're exhaulted. (Big Brown revisited?) Please. Im a fan of Rachel but not a fan of thoes proclaiming the horse of the moment is 'the best ever' or 'hoty'

3 women understand me...My mother my wife and now Paula ! lol. Yes Paula there is not hostility here just an opinion mixed in with a lot of passion ! It will be interesting after the Haskell to see if Jackson goes for the Travers to shut the door or does the Alabama, Beldame and shuts the door.

Really??  Seriously??  If Zenyatta dusts Rachel in a dirt race (out of CA) would that not make Zenyatta HOY even if Rachel won the Travers??

I am so amazed by people who think that R.A. has distance limitations considering her sire ran 2nd in the Belmont.  I for the love of all horse racing hope that Jess Jackson enters her in a 1 1/4 race so that she can strut her stuff.  Whats incredible is that we all have had a chance to see how well she relaxed in the Mother Goose which means "she's still putting it all together" her relaxed incredibly high cruising speed means 1 thing for all of the closers like MTB, Summer Bird, and Zenyatta.  They are going to start making their runs and the race is going to be over with.  Hands down.  Now please dont compare the competition that R.A. is running against to Zenyatta's, R.A. after running in the Haskell will have faced in 2 races the number of Grade 1 winners that Zenyatta will have faced in most likely her 11 & 12 race career.  That is a very sad statistic, for all of the Zenyatta lovers out there, because its not the mare's fault, its the fault of the connections to sit out in Sunny Cali and run against claimers and allowance horses race after race. I respect her for showing up and winning each time out, but as someone else put it "Zenyatta's Pride" will just not go down in history as one to be remembered because ummmmmm who did she beat. Oh that horse: "Allicansayiswow" they are doing a disservice to Zenyatta and believe me as much as I love Curlin if Zen had shipped and won the Beldame and 1 more race of historical significance against Grade 1 quality fields instead of winning the vanity and milady against dawn after dawn.  Maybe she would have gotten more votes for HOY, I would have placed Big Brown on my ballot above Zenyatta last year.  Thats the truth.  

Lady Ruffian, what has Zenyatta done on the flip side, or what has she run against, at least Rachel is running against horses that are consistently running at a Grade 1 level, Zen is running against allowance & claiming horses.  Am i right.

Jason, you are spot-on regarding this year's 3-year-old crop. The "latest" leader of the division subsequently rolled craps their next time out. I'll be playing the "don't" when 'Rachel' runs at Monmouth. As for her being a better 3-year-old than Ruffian? Pleeeeeese! We are a society of "what have you done lately?" Rachel couldn't have warmed up Whiteley's filly.

Afleetalexforever,

The new Meydan Racetrack in Dubai has a main track surface consisted of Tapeta. Not dirt.

I believe Einstein has a chance at HOY at this point, although Rachel may be the current front runner.

Jason---You said that times are not a big factor in HOY. I agree, but what about stakes or track records? Rachel's last outing set a record--apparently with ease. I thought she might be capable of times rarely or never before seen on the basis of that performance. Should she break/set new records, especially against males, would that not be a consideration in deciding HOY? I'm just wondering. Thanks.                

Dray,

Saw that Haskin put you in your place within his blog. Sounds like he thinks you need a week in the "hole" or something. lol. =P

Jason,

I'm with ya about all of the above, especially Gio Ponti. I mean if he adds a G1 @ 12f's, that's G1 wins between 8-12f's. I can't remember the last time a horse was able to do that. And to do it on both coasts in full fields. He'd have to be given significant consideration. Oh and those that bash Zenyatta for not beating "anyone", compare the number of total G1 winners she's beaten compared to anyone else out there. I bet she'll come out on top. But yes, she's got a way to go for HOY.

I'm rather irritated with these people (Draynay) who seem to think Zenyatta has no chance in the BC Classic. Of course she'd have to work alot harder, but it's not like she has NO shot. And I agree with Lady Ruffian - Rachel has not really raced against anything spectacular.I'll give her more respect if she can pull off a win against more talented 3-year old colts, like Quality Road. Personally I think he's the horse that's going to bring her down from this pedestal everyone has her on.

If Rachel Alexandra wins Haskell (8/2), Personal Ensign(8/30), and Jockey Club Gold Cup (10/3) then HOTY is hers.

The Haskell is 1 1/8 miles. The Alabama on 8/22 is 1 1/4 miles against 3 y/o fillies. If you think the distance of a mile and a quarter is not a problem then why not just run in the Travers? If she wins the Haskell I think she will go to the Travers then the Ruffian Handicap at Belmont on 9/12 at 1 1/6

afleetalexforever: Im sorry does the name Ginger Punch ring a bell? How about Tough Tiz's Sis? Not enough for you? Ok: Cocoa Beach, Hystericalady, Music Note or Romance is Diane. (cue the sarcasm)Yep, youre 100% right Zenyatta hasn't beaten anyone - claimers only. Do me a favor - name one filly that Rachel has beaten who has accomplished anywhere near what any of the fillies / mares that Zenyatta has beaten. Can you? Little hint: there isn't one.

Her schedule this year hasn't made her accomplishments any less impressive. people amaze me how quickly they forget & how fast some jump on & off the band wagon.

Thoes who have the audacticty to call the mare 'Zenyatta's Pride' (Thats you Dray-NAG) or a 'hometown hero' don't actually take the time to look at her resume of who she has beaten. Like people - horses greatness should be judged by the company they keep. Did Pepper's Pride  beat anyone noteworthy? NOPE. Hence that mare shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Zenyatta.

Some of you on here really make me giggle

Marina - thank you.

Also let me add something else. Should Rachel beat the better males out there  and or also win a race against some quality femals (stardom bound, zenyatta, even life is sweet) she'll have solidified her place in history as one for the ages. and people like me who want a horse to be judged not just on speed figures & money earned alone will be able to say we all witnessed history

Jason,

This question sure brings a lot of debate into this which is always fun.  Nice to see all these opinions.  Draynay, of course, is always colorful and so behind his horse.  I think you are a bit premature, Draynay, in crowning Rachel the best 3 year old ever.  I love her too but she is not a lock to win all her other races this year.  Anything can happen so we will have to see what she does.  I wouldn't be too sure that JJ won't change his mind.  He would love to get HOY again and if going to the BC will do it, he will unless she does go to the Travers and wins it and runs in the JCGC and wins it then having proven she can beat older horses which I really have no doubt she can.  I really think this is between Zenyatta and Rachel.  Zenyatta will have to come out of her division to win and she is an incredible mare and has proven it by remaining unbeaten but I'm not so sure that if she runs in the BC classic that she can win that.  Those European Horses came over here last year and just dominated.  They love the SA surface and are dangerous to any American horse running the classic.

I don't know that any American Horse can win that race but maybe it will be different this year.  But if a Euro wins the BC Classic where does that leave HOY?  Rachel or Zenyatta.  As for MTB, I don't think he will be in the running unless he wins every race he enters from now until the end of the year.  This horse has won one race this year and as long as I have followed this sport, HOY has never been given to a horse just for winning the Derby.  He has much to prove and maybe he will do just that.  It's really open because there's still a lot of racing to be done the rest of the season any anything we speculate now could change drastically and it doesn't look as though IWR will be back this year and I think QR is very iffy too.

Peppers Pride won what 18 or 19 in a row and didn't win HOY. She didn't leave NM. Almost the same with Z. Z has got to run more than 4 races this year, I believe, to win HOY. But there are lucrative races in CA so why should she leave? It's a pity that all the tracks in CA are syn.

It's not RA's fault no filly wants to race against her. She is the best. She must run against boys from now on just to gather competition. Dray might be right when comparing her to the great one. I also believe final times are important. How many years have they run the Mother Goose? 100yrs? and she's got the best time? Even though Bel. was fast that day, can

you really believe that it was faster than any of the other years they ran the Mother Goose? I pray for RA's soundness because she will show the naysayers the door!

As everyone is talking about the lack of quality in RA's competition, just for comparison's sake (as I honestly don't know), what quality horses did Ruffian beat?  Did she ever in her career race against older fillies and mares?

It's really too bad that both Zenyatta and Rachel seem to be taking a beating from the fans of each of them.  They are both incredible horses why can't they be given their due?  Why does everyone who is not their fan belittling their accomplishments?

I don't get it.  Rachel hasn't beat anyone and Zenyatta hasn't raced boys.  So what?  Rachel has beat everyone she's raced this year.  So has Zenyatta.  A win is a win no matter what.  Why try to take it away from either of them?

Draynay....I agree with you re...Rachel Alexandra...I think she can beat any horse running today... be it male or female....even though I love Zenyatta....

Whenever listing horses and the races they ran leading to HOY there is really no point in even discussing Smarty Jones.  No other horse could possibly have been chosen HOY in 2004.  By the time Smarty was on his way to the Belmont he was America's sweetheart.  There have been very few horses with the groundswell of love and support that he had.  Most of us considered him a Triple Crown winner who'd been cheated of his crown.

All I can say about this current discussion is WOW!!  These are going to be some great races to watch.  It sort of reminds me of the Derby trail that changed every week right up to the very morning of the race - you just never know.  Right now I'd have to go with Rachel as the strongest contender but I love Mine That Bird.

Marina,

    It is our opinion that Zen will not win and we can express it, that is why we live in the land of the free. Also what has Zenyatta raced this season, other than LIS? O wait nobody worthy of mention. Flashing is a graded stakes winner and some of the fillies in the oaks went on to do well in other races. The best Zen faced last year was Ginger Punch, though a very good distaffer probably wouldn't win against the top males. The only other horse that was for real or not hampered by a synthetic surface was TTS. Had the jock kept her to the out side in the stetch instead of going inside TTS could've given Zen her first defeat. It is not RA's fault that the top 3yr olds got injured. I will agree with one thing, if there is a horse who can beat her it's QR, not Zen.

"Horse of the Year" is not going to be given to a Three Year Old in 2009.

The award will be given to the horse that has proven to be superior this year, but also demonstrates stamina, durability, and class in the present and the past. The horse that is so honored this year going to be representative of the future goals of the breeding/racing community.

It is to early right now to begin naming contenders for this honor. However, one must watch the older horses, for it is from their ranks that the nominations, and the winner shall emerge.    

Fair is fair.  Rachel should not be awarded HOTY if she does not win on all surfaces.  Good or bad, artificial turf is with us and the HOTY ought to have to dance every dance on every dance floor.  And the same goes for Zenyatta -- she oughta do some running on the dirt and/or grass.

Wow,RA has a pretty hard-knocking fan base. People saying she's better than Sec,or Ruffian? I'm surprised no one has brought up Man O' War.

Rachel...matching Sec's 3 year old year? Hahah,not really. Everyone always says that fillies are just as good as colts and can run against them-then why do we bow down to a horse when she beats them? Maybe if more fillies ran with the boys RA would not be so overrated.

Also,I don't think RA is better than Ruffian. She's right up there with her,but not above her. Ruffian would have a lesson to teach Rachel for sure. Note that we never got to see how good Ruffian was-so if she had beat Foolish would people be calling her the best horse to EVER live?

As for HOY though,I think Rachel will get it. Though if Zenyatta runs-and wins in the BCC then she will win. On the other hand-even if she comes in 2nd or 3rd Rachel will take it.

LDP,

The same should apply to Rachel.

Draynay,

The Derby winner is the Derby winner no matter how much it disgusts you.  What ifs are just that but I'm willing to bet you that if you switch jockeys between Rachel and Mind that Bird in the Preakness then you would also switch the results of the first two finishers.

The Rock... let me clear up 2 things with you right now.

1.) Rachel in the last 3 months has nearly as many G1 wins as Zenyatta does in her entire career.

2.) Mr. Haskin did not put me in my place.  In fact he made a strange comment calling me... well let me just post it below !

Draynay, "borders on cheating?" If you want to say you're against rabbits say so, that's fine. But if you continue to bring your warped ideas over here and insist on putting a negative spin on everything I am going to have to send you back to your warden, Jason. I guess jail time did not mellow you at all.

He called my ideas warped... like I am the only person who thinks a rabbit is bad sportsmanship.  Most owners feel that way and that is the reason it is so rarely used. I stand by my statement.  Throwing in a horse with no intention of winning to upset the pace of the race and interfere with another horse to gain an advantage boarders on cheating.  That is hardly an off the wall opinion and I was sticking up for Dr. Fager.

Rachel is the leader in my opinion at this time. However, there is a long way to go and alot can happen between now and the end of the year. When Rachel wins the Haskell it won't mean much to me. Who is she going to beat in that race? Nobody! Zenyetta will not race in the Classic. If she did she would lose. Her connections are not stupid enough to let that happen.

  Jason, I finally got my money from CD!! What a joke.

Draynay, we need to have a chat with Jason about our "rats." The funny thing is, when Ralphie has a bath my husband tells him he looks like a "wet rat." I probably shouldn't have said that since I'm giving Jason more ammunition. LOL.

I agree that:

a. RA and Zenyatta will never meet this year

b. I also don't think Zenyatta will end up in the BC.

C. I love MTB but he would have to win everything in sight to be in contention.

D. Quality Road could be the game changer and help push Einstein ahead for HOTY by beating RA. If QR can't beat her, I think she will beat whoever she runs against (since she's not running against Zenyatta) unless she gets the trip from h---l. I think for potentially tough competition, QR is the toughest she will be up against. She won't face Sea The Stars at the BCC.

So I guess HOTY for me is going to come down to RA and Einstein.

I hope Quality Road starts racing soon and soon you will remember that this horse is the best of the best, pletcher must be thrilled to train him! I think there are still alot of talented 3 year olds this year unlike the crew of flunkies from last year aka DA Tara what has that horse done lately what a joke! How about tale of ekati...bum! Pyro....lol! Ok i am done this crew this year is very talented compared to years past!

TerriV---I believe Smarty was champion 3 year old colt, while Ghostzapper was voted HOY for 2004. I would not have voted that way either....

Read the article on BH about IEAH's claim that Lanzman ALLEGEDLY trained I Want Revenge up to the Kentucky Derby knowing full well that he had an injury to his right foreleg that was discovered after the Wood Memorial, the incentive being a one-million dollar bonus paid by IEAH if IWR wins the derby.  It will make you sick.  The important line is nestled in the middle of the article:  Since the agreement called for an additional $1-million paid to Lanzman from IEAH if I Want Revenge won the Derby, "rather than stop training on the colt and treating him for the injury, Lanzman sacrificed the colt’s health for his own potential financial gain," IEAH claims.

So please, don't ever tell me that to ALL owners/trainers the welfare of the horse is paramount.  There are numerous insiders on these blogs that are condescendingly adament that this is the case and that we fans are know-nothings and have no right to criticize.

www.bloodhorse.com/.../ieah-says-i-want-revenge-injury-not-disclosed

PS-- HORSWLD, check your email that you use to post on BH :-)

This may sound wild but if Munnings upsets Rachel in the Haskell he has an outsider's shot at HOTY.

Gio Ponti is the best horse in the country right now.  He will face a very good field in the Million but he will handle those with ease a 1 1/4 miles.  Next step is either a prep in the Goodwood at Santa Anita and then either the BC Turf or Classic.  If Sea The Stars comes and Ponti can handle him he should get Horse of the Year.  I would love to see Gio Ponti head to Paris for the Arc but I don't think that is in the cards.

As for Rachel..........I think she gets beat by Gozzip Girl in the Alabama.  I don't think anyone realizes how good Gozzip Girl is.  She ran lights out on both Turf and poly and she will defeat Zenyatta in the Distaff(Ladies Classic) at Santa Anita if Zenyatta ends up there.  The final fractions Gozzip Girl is running at the end of her races are      

remarkable.

She will need to have at the very least,  two tough races in a row and one against older horses going 1 1/4 miles,  the classic distance, preferrably at Belmont Park.  In other words she'd have to run in the Haskell and then the Travers or the Jockey Club Gold Cup after that to convince me she's worthy or go to California and face Zenyetta in the Breeder's Cup.  But running against 2 other fillies in the Mothergoose was a joke,  wow what a tough race that must have been for her.  You see, I haven't seen her run against two decent fields twice in a row,  that's why she's good because they limit her competition deliberately to keep her from having to actually do any serious running.  Sure,  run a good horse against 2 bad horses and yes,  you will look good. I don't care about the track record because that track was primed for her to break a record,  just like the year Point Given lost the derby.  The track for the derby that year was rock hard,  primed for the winner to break a record or a leg.  Bobby Frankel made those comments the morning of the derby that year,  and look what happened,  Monarchos came close to equaling Secretariat's record because the track was primed for it,  except they expected Point Given to break the record and it didn't happen.  Does anyone really think Monarchos was even close to being as good as Secretariat.  Pleeeeeeze! We do know that Monarchos never won another race after that,  so much for that effort. Let's see her run against two quality fields twice in a row and we'll see what happens. I wanted to see if she could run 1 1/2 miles in 2:27 or better,  I guess she wasn't good enough to face boys twice in a row and her connections are quite aware of that.  Winning Colors and Genuine Risk ran against the boys four times in a row. Can she top that,  then give her HOY.

BY THE WAY,  Anybody who thinks RA is better than Ruffian, I have one thing to say to you, "Get your head checked",  because something is obviously off balance. Ruffian ran 1 1/2 miles in 2:27,  did Rachel do that.  Oh,  that's right,  she needed a long rest after that Preakness effort and sending her 1 1/2 miles would have, no doubt, finished her off for the year.

Dray,

Sorry. you didn't clear up anything to me. Just more ranting as I usually see. I mean, was it really necessary to bash on a horse of Damascus' caliber? All Steve was trying to do was pay tribute to a horse that got him off Wall Street into a game he loves. Ever heard of "if you don't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all"? There are times n places for your aforementioned "warped" thoughts, such as here, but under that particular topic, that wasn't one of them. I see you got your RA comments in almost every blog. I'm gonna step out on a limb here but it really shouldn't be one considering your luck, RA will NOT win the Haskell. You have put the ultimate jinx on her. Such as with Quality Road, Vineyard Haven and numerous others who have bit the dust b/c of you. And when she does, I can't wait to see what you write next.

I promise it amazes me that people still want to talk about Ginger Punch and the fact that Zenyatta beat her twice last year.  Horse racing is not difficult people and for those of you who listen you'll benefit, for those out west who walk about with the Zenyatta blinders on.  You will ignore fundamentals.  But let me try to explain how things work, when you own a top tier mare and you want to dance "ALL" Of the dances you have to bring your mare along and develop a fitness level that will allow her to run very well but not peak but especially not in April.  When you bring along what may be considered a top tier mare and you realize that your horse is only going to run in 2 difficult races you can get the horse 100% fit for 1 race (the apple blossom) and then let the horse down and run in races with no competition like the Milady, Vanity, and Clement L. Hirsch. At that point you can gear the horse up again for the L.C. Its that simple. So please stop trying to talk to me about how great Zen was in beating G.P in April at a time when 1 horse was dead fit, and then 6 months later when the horse was dead fit again.  Why, because Ginger Punch ran a real HOY type campaign, no she didnt win every race because she faced the highest tier competition.  In 2009 Zenyatta's campaign is incredibly softer as no east coast dirt race against any champs.  But running litte circles around a few allowance horses on synthetics.  Not impressive by any means.  That pretty much horse racing 101.  Buy the book if you need to. The moss's and Sheriffs sure have she wont face boys or dirt unless its a walkover. lol

OMG I can't take it anymore!!! I'll go crazy picking my favorite for HOY. First, even though Rachel is my Queen and I worship every step she takes, SHE IS NOT BETTER THAN RUFFIAN. Not yet. She'll probably be HOY anyway because Mr. Jackson will make sure, like he did with the equine love of my life, the Mighty Curlin, that she races only when it will increase her chances of being HOY. But,then there's Einstein.  What a Champ and what a year he's having!! I love this guy. And Gio Ponti has ticked me off more than once this year by beating some of my favorites but he keeps running the way he is, and no one will stand a chance. By the way, the beautiful and talented Gio is now one of my favorites. And then there's Zenyatta, the Queen Mum. What a beauty and what talent. But she really needs to leave CA and race the boys. But in the end, I really don't think that we can wait for the BC to decide who will be HOY because the euros will kick our butts like they did last year anyway which is quite annoying.

Giggles at the people who think you have to win on 'other' surfaces to get HOY.  What a crock that is.  How many non-dirt races did Curlin win last year?  Proving inferior on both the turf and synthetic is hardly a HOY-resume builder.  

First off, I must say I like seeing what everyone has to say on this and other blogs.  There is more than one opinion out there.

Now to the debate.  Yes, I do think Rachel has to do more to get HOTY, but if she wins the Haskell and then at least one more race (I hope the Travers) she should get it.  As a fan of Rachel, I must say I'm curious to see if the mile and a quarter classic distance(of the Travers) is a chink in her armor, or if she will be just as dominating against the colts once again.  I'm hoping she dominates.  If she loses in any of the rest of her starts, but finishes in the top three, wow that is going to be a difficult decision for the voters.

For me, I am having a hard time with so many people being so high on Zenyatta for this season.  What keeps getting me is her low amount of total starts for this year.  I don't think she could get HOTY even if she does win the BCC.  She just hasn't done enough this season to be considered.  Champion older female, sure, I'll give her that.  

I think it would be neat if Einstein wins his third grade one on his third different surface.  I believe he hasn't gotten a victory on the dirt yet. He also would be a contender for HOTY.

Just throwing this in here, not for a possible HOTY, but because my mouth was hanging open when I watched a replay of the United Nations H.  For sheer amazing moments this year, I have to say that Presious Passion's July 4th victory was pretty amazing.

Cheers,

Heather

To ALB: Zenyatta has raced on the dirt track at Oaklawn...and she won. She has a strong turn of foot on both synthetics and common dirt and has the ability to win anytime. It is just up to Jerry and Anne Moss to enter her in a dirt based race. Her earlier scratch this year was disappointing as I was sure she would put her doubters to shame. But she didn't have the chance. Her owners need to pit her against horses on the dirt to prove her true ability once more. Unless they are trying to beat Peppers Pride's record win streak. If they are, then I would say to keep her on the synthetics in California where she is used to running. If not - bring her east!

As much as I love her, I really don't think Zenyatta should be considered for HOY. It's definitely going to be between Einstein and Rachel, IMO.

Without a shadow of a doubt Rachel Alexandra is the horse to beat for the HOTY title.  For this reason running against her is an opportunity that a bold and ambitious trainer like Todd Pletcher wishes to seize with his ultra talented 3yo colt Munnings in the Haskell.  The same opportunity is being presented to Big Drama but alas, his connections were "once bitten" in the Preakness (where the colt had legitimate excuses) and are "twice shy" in the Haskell, ducking for the West Virginia Grade one event instead.  He should prevail there against the Derby winner Mine That Bird but IMO is certainly capable of turning the tables on "Rachel" at the Haskell distance of 9 furlongs now that he is fitter and has home-field advantage.  

Todd Pletcher may not know much about how to prepare a Kentucky Derby winner but he is certainly not short on courage when he has confidence in his charge (how can anyone forget the highlight of this year's Derby trail, Dunkirk being sent out to battle against Quality Road without his "rabbit" in the Florida Derby).  The trainer's bravery has to be admired (it was only his whining about speed bias on the track after the fact that was sour grapes).  

By the way, Quality Road also will have a reasonable shot at the HOTY title if he manages to face off with Rachel Alexandra at some point.  Rachel holds the key to HOTY honors and whoever wants it will definitely have to race against her and then "climb mount Everest" to beat her and that includes "Queen" Zenyatta.  

Jason, these are my thoughts on the subject.  Good article again pal.

Draynay behind R.A. is the kiss of death for her...shades of Vineyard Haven and the Kentucky Derby...

i think mine that bird, if he wins at mountaneer and the travers and the Breeders cup classic who can knock him? he was dominating in the derby and has the potential to win again and again.

rachel is good too but she has a lot to prove before she gets the lock on horsse of the year.

what do you think jason?

I think HOY goes to whichever of them beats the boys at 1 1/4.  If they both do (with Zenyatta's in the Classic) then I have to think Rachel gets it...and deservedly so.

Right now Rachel has run more races (for the year) then Zenyatta & has defeated colts in a Triple Crown race. RA is a head of Zenyatta already. If she wins the Haskill she's in a great spot. At that point Jackson will look to run her against older fillies/mares(and if she wins), Zenyatta will have to run colts in the BC & win to pull ahead of her (or defeat her in a race on dirt outside of CA). RA has traveled all over Zenyatta has only run once out of CA & that was last year (Shipping to K.Y. & not running doesn't count). That is why she did not get HOY last year. The two horses will never run against each other it's just a silly hype game. Half of the best horses in the country woun't even be running in the BC (and I don't blame them!). So why should that one race be the deciding factor. I think Einstein (he can run on all 3 surfaces) has a better chance than Gio Ponti because dirt horses are favored for HOY. Either one of them does have a legit shot though. The BC has diluted it's championships anyway. Bring the Distaff back to Sat, that is where it belongs. The BC put the fillies/mares in on Fri's as an attractiom scheme. No one would watch just juveniles on Fri. A horse should run on dirt or turf not plastic. Europe will come & clean up even better than they did last year. Lets see how they do when the classic is back on dirt in 2010 (they will most of the time do well on turf).

I don't think using a rabbit is good for the sport either. First and foremost I think it's unfair to the horse/rabbit. Your throwing a horse into a race he isn't suited for and presumably, you know it.  A horse should be entered in a race with the goal of winning (positive), not to make life miserable for another horse (negative). Some people might call this tactics. I think it's questionable sportsmanship.  

I feel Rachel Alexandra is HOY. She's proven her point time and again this year. So she doesn't go west. Zenyatta isn't coming east. Zenyatta won't race males. Zenyatta is great but she is one coddled filly in comparison to Rachel Alexandra Who knows, maybe Rachel Alexandra will race in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. Even if she doesn't race again this year, the mark she has left is indelible. By the way, Zenyatta will not run in the BC Classic. She'll stay with the fillies and mares. 60% of a $2,000,000 purse is still a nice chunk of change.

How about this scenario. After she wins the Haskell, and with all due respect to Summer Bird and the rest of that field...no way she loses to them at 9 panels, she wins the Alabama (or the Travers?) and then really does something no 3 yr old filly has ever done to my knowledge..... close out her spectacular year by beating the older males in the JCGC at Belmont in October. Biggest race of the year other than the BC Classic. That would seal the deal if she wins it, no doubt about it. And with the older handicap male crop this year, would you bet against her? This is the kind of big splash Jackson loves.  

Ok, to say Rachel hasn't beaten any one is like saying Seattle Slew beat no one. Years after the truth will be known! And it's not her fault that horses don't want to race against her, like "Big Drama". Also I read some where that three year filly's are not equal in maturity to the boys until fall, and that is why European fillys do well against the colts, as the races are later.

But if Zenyatta is so good, and there is NOT much in the way of older mares for her to race like last year - WHY are they ducking the boys??? I'm sure she could find a race if they wanted.

I don't believe that Rachel is a lock yet, but I'm glad she's trying!!

Rachel has a LONG way to go to prove she's the greatest filly of all time - agree with poster's who have mentioned Ruffian, Personal Ensign and Go For Wand. And was Winning Colors not something special for winning the Derby? She lost the Distaff to Personal Ensign and neither was disgraced. Rachel's times need to be looked at in the light of a filly who can blow the doors off against mediocre competition - nobody was running with her in either of her 20 length wins. She nearly lost the Preakness to MTB and was desperate at the end. Lots of us old race horse trainers have had some cheap fillies who could match Rachel's splits if there was nobody working with them - we called them "Morning Glories".

There's too many races and various scenarios to say anyone has locked up anything. And btw Ghostzapper and Saint Liam won HOTY honors with 4 and 6 starts respectively, it's not far fetched that Zenyatta could win with 5.

anncat, then there's no horse alive eligible to win HOY if your criteria is you must win the big ones on all 3 surfaces (or. let's see, how many different synthetic surfaces are there) since only one horse has ever done it, and not even in the same year...Lava Man. Good grief.

Jason, no American Breeders Cup is "stellar" if the American dirt horses don't show up to run on plastic grass.

My heart says Einstein, but if Rachel wins the Haskell and so on, she deserves HOY.  Terrifying when I agree with much of what Dray has to say today, but yeah, I think she's banging on the door of greatest three year-old filly EVER.

Jason, I know you guys have to make this thing interesting, but seriously, if Curlin was Hoy last year then RA is already Hoy This year. Hopefully all goes well and i get to see her once again(at the Haskel). She has not just won races, when she meets lesser competition she makes them look lesser. She beat the boys and didn't like the going on that. I fully expect her to win by more than five lengths in her next out.

The breeders cup are very important , yes, but that one race should not negate the body of work. Its not her fault that the other contenders are behind the 8 ball.

I agree that Einstein and Gio Pontie have been performing well.

we must consider though if u ask a casual race horse fan about racing this year  I'm very sure RA's name will be the first name called.

She is the Horse of the moment , the one we want to see, she is the face of racing at this point. Its just the way it is at this point.

I forgot to mention, I don't see any of the older horses winning the classic this year. I think the winner will come from the 3 year old crop, and to be more specific from Europe.

I must add, I love Well Armed , He is my wall paper on my desk top, I would love to see him repeat wat he did in Dubai.

Snow,

    I know the same applies with RA, that is why after the Haskel, i would go skip the Travers, wait a week and go in the Woodward. The Woodward, one of the meets top races for older horses. It is at, what appears, to be her best distance, and taking it instead of the Travers would be just as good or better.

While I don't think Zenyatta will get HOY, I do believe that by passing up the BC, RA's connections are conceding that Zenyatta is better.  Since RA has already won brilliantly on synthetics, the only possible reason not to run her in the BC is because they're convinced she can't beat Zenyatta.

One thing I've learned in more than 40 years as a racing fan is that the difference between good and great horses is that the great ones don't need excuses.

Too bad we no longer seem to have any owners like the late Alan Paulson, who wouldn't shy away from any challenge.  After all, the difference between the hard CA tracks and the deep NY tracks when Cigar was running was every bit as great as the difference between a given dirt track and synthetic track today.  But that didn't scare Mr. Paulson away from running Cigar on both.

More generally on HOY, there's too much racing left for anything to be decided.  Who would have picked Tiznow in July of his 3yo season?  What if Rail Trip dominates from here on out?  What if one of the late blooming 3yo colts smokes RA in the Haskell and then wins the Travers and Classic, with another big win or two over older horses? What if one of the streaking turf horses ends up with 6 or 7 GI wins in a row? Barring a Triple Crown win there is no way anyone can clinch HOY this early.  After all, it's not Horse of the Spring, it's Horse of the Year.

That doesn't mean that RA won't get it.  If she continues on she definitely could.  But barring a Triple Crown sweep, it's pretty rare for a 3yo to win HOY without defeating older horses, which she has not yet done.  And I'd sure like to see her beat better colts than she did in the Preakness.

I'm a Rachel fan but I need to see how she handles 1 1/4 miles...hopefully at the Travers...

The Oaks is now run at 1 1/4 miles. In 1975 it was 1 1/2 miles.

Regarding Ruffian at a mile and a half...Coaching Club American oaks, Belmont Park ... reprinted from another site.

"Ruffian's margin of victory was three lengths, and her time of 2:27 4/5 tied the race record.

Yet except for a final furlong in :11 3/5, Ruffian had not been allowed to run, and even in the last eighth had not run all out.

Had she been pushed, many thought she could have broken Secretariat's track record, (2:24) and there was no doubt of her ability to break the stakes record. Yet record or no record, the Filly Triple Crown belonged to Ruffian, and she had yet to break a sweat.

Even after running a mile and a half, the filly was inexhaustible, bucking as she was slowed down after the wire, and playing on the walk back to the barn."

In her ten career starts, Ruffian was not only undefeated, but had led the field at every point in every race. Her combined margins of victory totaled eighty-three lengths. She had also equaled two track records, was the owner of seven stakes records, and had tied an eighth stakes record. It was time to step out of her division and meet the colts."

Those of you who think that Rachel has it all wrapped up already have got to be kidding yourself. All it takes is one race for EVERYTHING to change.  In my eyes she must win the remainder of her races this year to be the HOTY.  I would also like to see her in the Jockey Club Gold Cup to see how good she really is.  The Breeder's Cup is overrated and I do think that it really doesn't matter whether she races there or not.  Let her stay on the dirt in the east and race in the most marquee races the Haskell, Travers, and Jockey Club Gold Cup and she is a lock.  If she wins all of those races she will go down as the greatest filly of all-time.  Not only that but that will complete the greatest season for a racehorse since 1968 when the great Dr. Fager ran the legs off of everything that lived.  Still lets not get ahead of ourselves I really see Papa Clem pulling a huge upset in the Haskell he has the right running style whether it be just behind Rachel or a little further out of it and he will be running at the end.  Lets not forget how tired she was in the Preakness I don't buy the track as an excuse all just yet she finally got some real horses entered against her and she BARELY held on.  I'm not trying to take anything away from her but that is the plain and simple fact that she was being gained on in the last furlong.  Lucky for her it is a mile and an eight but she will be challenged in the Haskell never ever sell 3 year old males short never underestimate them they mature much later and they almost always come into their own this time of the season and even so on.  She will be challenged and even if she does win it won't be by any 20 lengths maybe 5 but not 20.  She will have a rough race no doubt, everyone wants to beat a good horse.  HOTY is definately still up for grabs the entire time until the Eclipse Awards have been handed out. Do not be decieved so easily, half the racing season is still left.

Rachael hasn't beaten anybody.  They gave her the Preakness.  Don't even tell me the jocks "race rode" that race.  They could have done far more to keep her wide at the first turn. They knew it would have cost them a mount in the future and the sport couldn't afford another accident.  This pretty and talented filly won't win the Haskell. only female worthy of horse of the year is Zenyatta.  Only problem is Mike Smith is afraid of the rail.  her/his last wins have come from wide trips and that will cost her.

Also, she is bred to love the synth... so what the hell?  andshe has a win over it...  unlike Curlin

I suppose RACHEL ALEXANDRA could end up being Horse of the Year. I guess we'll see.

When I read that RACHEL ALEXANDRA is being pointed for the Haskell I thought...why not? After all, the three year old division is completely depleted. Everyone is either retired, broken down or just missing in action. With MIDSHIPMAN, SQUARE EDDIE, STREET HERO, DUNKIRK, THE PAMPLEMOUSE, I WANT REVENGE, PIONEER OF THE NILE, QUALITY ROAD, MUSKET MAN and VINEYARD HAVEN all out of commission why shouldn't RACHEL ALEXANDRA try to beat the boys again? After all "the boys" she's beating are the second-stringers and the best of a sorely depleted crop.

Remember how everyone was taking about what a "terrible" horse MINE THAT BIRD is? Well, he and SUMMER BIRD are the two best 3 year old colts out there right now. And I wonder if they're really the best, or if they're just the best because the horses I listed above aren't running anymore.

I would be a lot more impressed by RACHEL ALEXANDRA if she were beating the best horses in the division (but they're nowhere to be found). Even still, RACHEL ALEXANDRA is a phenomenal racehorse.

Jason to begin they will not race Rachel Alexandra in the travers because she can't get the 1 1/4, looke what happen at the preakness went mine that bird almost cut her at the end of the race and the haskell is not over yet she will face some competion in there, plus if she lose she will not race agains males again just like curlin after he lost the man of war last year didn't race on turf again. i think zenatta will be at the classic this year and the only winner is going to be calvin borel because he will be on mine that bird at the classic. any word on pyro?

Some of you need to watch the Preakness again.  She had the outside post.  A post NO HORSE had EVER won from.  She was on just 2 weeks rest after winning the Oaks by 20 lengths. She was facing a sprinting champion and winner of his last 7 out of 8 and the Derby mud winner a dead closer. AND SHE STILL WON BY DAYLIGHT !  The set up could not have been more perfect and still she won by daylight.  If you can't beat her under those perfect conditions you can't beat her.  You will never see her again on 2 weeks rest.  This is a horse that smashed Ruffian's record while being eased 200 yards before the wire. STOP the nonsense that she barely held on.

Vic,

I agree that Rachel will be pressed in the Haskell but should win by under 5 lengths... Papa Clem? He finished 3rd in the Long Branch Stakes 1 1/16 ($175,000)on July 11th at Monmouth Park to Atomic Rain.

I would do the same thing..  The Haskell 8/2, the Travers 8/29 and the Jockey Club Gold 10/03.. Travers and the Jockey Club Gold at 1 1/4..  

my opinion zenyatta wins the classic she wins HOTY. RA wins the haskell (if they didn't run her in the belmont then she's not going in the travers off 3 weeks) and the beldame then she would be thew fav depending on what the others do. saying that RA is better then the best 3yr old male and filly to ever race then just get out.

If either COLONEL JOHN or WELL ARMED show up for the Jockey Club Gold Cup I'm afraid RACHEL ALEXANDRA will be running for second.

Your article pretty much sums up my opinion of the HOY situation.  

And to afleetalexforever:  I think Rachel has distance limitations because she appeared to be tiring at the end of the Preakness.  And although her father was second in the Belmont, he lost to 70/1 longshot Sarava, a horse who never won a graded stakes before or after that. It was also the second slowest Belmont this decade.  I don't consider a sire who finished second to a nag in a slow Belmont to be a significant distance influence.

And although Medaglia d'Oro won once at 10 furlongs, the vast majority of his wins were at nine furlongs.  Rachel's dam side has predominantly produced milers so there's little hope there for distance.  

I too want Jackson to run her at 10 furlongs.  He may run her against very bad fillies at that distance provided they carry equal weight.  But I'll bet we don't see Rachel run against colts or Zenyatta at 10 furlongs.

"AND SHE STILL WON BY DAYLIGHT"??since when is a length daylight??? She is a very special filly but she needs to face older mares to win HOTY. a victory in the Travers should not be enough to secure the title. Gio Ponti has won the same number of G1 as RA so far and his level of competition has been a bit tougher (at least beat more than 2 allw. horses).  my vote as of today would be Gio Ponti. who says a turf horse cannot win the HOTY?

Y'all realize that you're arguing over stuff that plays out based on popularity and politics?  Look at the ESPYs or any other award that is produced - its the same BS. It's a sham product based on what people perceive and what is actual reality.  Anyone remember Favorite Trick?  The best horses beat who they should beat regardless of whom they are racing against - male or female.  If all things are considered, and Gio Ponti keeps winning, then you might consider him as HOY.  The fact that dirt fields are commonly smaller than the turf goings, a horse like GP winning at a clip that he is resembles a HOY vote in my mind.

Got to love the passion of the fan bases of each of these horses.

It would be fair to say that RA is in the lead for the award today, but alot can change over the next few months.

Zenyatta.  She reminds me of Curlin last year.  Curly had a big 3YO season, beating some very tough horses.  Last year in his 4YO campaign, he lived more on his reputation as he didn't beat nearly as good of competition.  In fact, when he did meet his equals in the BC he lost.  It wasn't the track..it was the quality of Raven and Henry.  The same with Zenyatta.  Beat some really good distaffers last year...this year we're talking tomato cans.  Personally, she's not even the best horse whose name begins with "Z" to run in the past two years.

Rachel.  You can only beat who you race.  She does need to beat some older horses IMHO. I would have run her in the Whitney.  9F. Right outside of her barn.  I mean, really.  If you want HOY you got to be able to beat Dry Martini!!!

The dark horse to me would be Gio Ponti. Except that turf horses are more of pariahs than 2YO's.  It took the best turf horse in recent memory 20 yrs to get in the HOF for goodness sakes.  We've had as many turf horses HOY as 2 YO's in the past 30 years.  Now, if he runs in the Classic and beats a Sea The Stars..then he has a shot.

You want HOY...make a list of the best horses in the world.  RA, Zenyatta, STS, FandG, Masterofthehorse, Sariska, Stacelita, Ghanatti, Vision, Goldi and whomever else you like.  You run a beat a couple of these guys and gals..you get the big enchilada!!

The Real Horse of the Year is Still lying in the Weeds>>>Mine That Bird

I think Rachael will lose to the older males, thats why JJ won't send her to where the older, stronger males will be and Zen thats in the BC this year. He puts her in races where the males and fillies are weak. So she can look so impressive. He is scared of the BC.

Draynay- Unfortunately,you need to watch the Preakness again.  Sorry,she did not win by daylight. Although I think Rachel is great,MTB almost ran her down after not getting the best of trips; however overcoming that far outside post and still winning by Rachel was an accomplishment to say the least.

If the Preakness had only been a few feet further in distance, RA wouldn't have won. The Bird was coming hard-she won't beat the Bird boys going any further. As for Zenyatta's critics, they obviously missed her BC win last year.  She crushed(easily) an excellent field of fillies & mares.

I HAVE to agree with Draynay here on RA.   Personally, I SAW Ruffian and since she never got far enough for us to see her true greatness, I have to say..RACHEL is so far proving to be a "throw back" to the TOUGH type of Thoroughbreds I remember when I was growing up.  I think she ABSOLUTELY needs to go to the TRAVERS and WIN and it WILL be GAME OVER.   As much as I like ZENYATTA, c'mon guys....she's GOT to set foot OUTSIDE of California to face the BEST that the East Coast has to offer (and that doesn't include JUST RACHEL!)  What happened to the days when owners would take on ALL challenges and stop wrapping these horses in "bubble wrap" to keep them for JUST certain races?  I think BOTH of these mares are proving there might be a glimmer of hope for recreating the TOUGH, TENACIOUS campaigners that the Racing world USED to see!   As for the "synthetic" surfaces, as a horse owner who RIDES on all different surfaces, I can tell you every horse reacts differntly to them and there are so many differetn synthetics out there, that I don't blame ANY owner for being cautious.   This stuff is still in the "trying" stages, so let's cut them some slack.   I've ridden on different synthetics and I've had horses who couldn't have cared if I road them on broken glass.....they'd keep going, others, if there was a blade of grass out of place.....FUGGEDDABOUTIT!   If you have ahorse you KNOW hates synthetics, why bother?   Not worth aggravating the horse and it proves NOTHING if they hold back because of it and don't perform the way they usually do.   I don't see NATURAL surfaces going away any time soon.   There are ways to make them safer.....it just takes more time and money!

Number 1! While it isn't the class of 2007, This is a great group of 3 year olds, even with the injuries that have occured. I'd say this group is deeper and as or more talented than any group in the last 15 years excluding that bunch from 2007 which was spectacular. Number 2! Rachel wins the Haskell and wins out its over period, Zenyatta is her only threat and she ain't leaving Cali. I seriouly doubt she makes the BC still undefeated or even at all but thats another story

I'll make a small mind bet (that way, all I can lose is my mind)that none of the "Rachel is better than Ruffian" crowd is old enough  to say that they saw Ruffian race in person. I was lucky enough to see her Acorn at the Big A in 1975. As beautiful and physically imposing as both Zenyatta and 'Rachel' are, Ruffian took your breath away. I've never seen a filly who looked so much like a colt. Jet black and 17-plus hands, she looked down on the world and never seemed to really relax under Jacinto Vasquez' straitjacket. All she was screaming to do was run 11-second furlongs. Despite her short career, Blood-Horse named her 35th greatest horse of all time. Neither 'Rachel' or Zenyatta would crack the top 50. Not yet. Either wins the Jockey Club and Breeders' Classic, then we'll talk.

I agree with steve from st. louis.  It seems that lots of people only remember the flavour of the month and think that it's the be-all and end-all for all time.  

Re: the subject of this blog: the season is only 1/2 over and there's tons of time for other horses to grab our imagination.  It's nice that it APPEARS so far that HOY is between these two really nice fillies/mares but lets see how it plays out, hopefully on the track.  (I can dream.)

However, for those calling RA the "best 3YO filly ever", check out SCEPTRE (the blogger who uses this name knows her/his horses!).

And for everyone turning cartwheels over Zenyatta being undefeated so far (or even Peppers Pride), check out KINCSEM.  54 for 54.

I swear that if someone starts saying, ""RA first, the rest nowhere", I'm gonna scream!  (look that up, too)(hint: awards are named after him).

The protectors of history are out again Jason and even after Rachel wins the Haskell and Travers it won't be enough.  Here she is doing things Ruffian NEVER did and here she is smashing Ruffian records and STILL we get post like the one above claiming Rachel just doesn't measure up yet. Ruffian in the Acorn ran a mile race in 134 and change.  Rachel ran a mile split a full second faster going a 1 1/8th and finished the race in a stakes record while being eased and finished less than a second from Secretariats track record. Ruffian never beat the Derby winner, never beat boys, never won a Triple Crown race and never ran as fast as Rachel.  Its time to stop making horses in history more than what they were.  Ruffian beat up on 3 year old fillies Rachel is not even allowed to do that anymore.  She must take on males again and after she beats them again the protectors of history will find a new challenge for Rachel while claiming Ruffian is still the better horse despite everything Rachel continues to accomplish.  Had Ruffian beaten a Graded Stakes winner and sprint record holder along with the Derby winner in the Preakness in 1975 there would be statues of her at every track.

Zenyatta's only hope for Horse of the Year is to ship East or face males. A lame synthetic campaign in restricted races will not get it done.

Oh, and not only is the BC not a true World Championship, it isn't even the championship of the USA when held on a synthetic track.

Can't wait for 2011 when we get to see our best horses in the BC again.

Mike S...If Rachel gets beat, it won't be by those two.

steve from st louis....You're "spot on"...as they say. I WAS there to see the great Ruffian and as I said after watching RA run her first three races this year...she's the best I've seen SINCE Ruffian!

Keenelandcat,

    If what you say was true then why did MTB never her pass RA even a few strides after the wire. If a horse is charging that hard and the other horse is backing up or just staying the same speed, the one should be able to blow right by the other. Either MTB was tired and his kick gone, see the Belmont, or RA dug back in. If what you say is true MTB with how fast he was closing should have passed RA in 4 to six strides. You can't slow down a charging horse that fast, you'd end up hurting them. MTB wouldn't have beaten her and the fact he NEVER passed her in a short time span after the wire proves that.

Thomas m,

    The Travers is one month away from the Haskell, 4 weeks. The Alabama may be the race your thinking of, since it is 3 weeks away from the Haskell.

I don't know that Rachel has distance limitations based on the Preakness.  She was taken to the lead and ran neck and neck with Big Drama.  That's not her racing style.  She stalks the pace.  That's how she blows away her fields.  She goes nice and easy letting others set the pace, then she turns for home and takes off.  She was hussled up to the lead out of the 13 hole and used up a lot of energy up front but still won.  Doesn't matter if MTB would have caught her if the race was a few steps longer.  He didn't catch her and she won.  It's history.

No way are the owners of Zenyatta going to let her race with the boys at the breeders classic. They don't even let her out of California. They play it way too safe to get Horse of the Year. Perhaps she deserves it but we will never know because the Mosses are not willing to go out on a limb. But out on the limb is where the fruit is.

Alot of you still talking about Zenyatta's win in the Ladies Classic seem to not realize one thing.  She beat a bunch of dirt horses on a synthetic track, the majority of the dirt horses that ran out in the B.C. last year turned in Career worst performances.  Is that hard to see or are you so blinded by Zenyatta beating allowance quality horses in Grade II quality races in 10 of her 12 starts that you dont see whats really going on.  She could run in open company but she's not good enough, she could race outside of california but her style doesnt allow for guarenteed wins.  WHY WOULD MOSS say on Saturday in June that he was going to ship Zenyatta to face R.A. and then after watching her set records and win by 19 lengths change his mind.  "BECAUSE ZENYATTA WOULD NOT CATCH RACHEL", not at 8.5f 9f, 10f, the distance doesnt matter, her turn of foot is not anywhere close to MTB's and they realized that she's slowing down.  Thats why Mike Smith had to go to the whip in her last race to beat a group of Grade III mares "Grade III at best".  I appreciate the fact that you love your favorite horse, but facts are facts. Rachel finished her last race at 1 1/8 in 1:46 and change, Zenyatta in 1:49. Thats more than 10 lengths so can you say BEATING ZENYATTA BY DAYLIGHT. They wouldnt even been on the same television screen at the end of the race, and yes the Moss's know this, they are not stupid people.  Otherwise we'd have a date set for a race between the two.

Monica well put, you people that think mine that bird would of won the preakness if there was an extra furlong are nuts, HE LOST PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THAT HORSE IS WEAK AND WILL NEVER WIN HOTY! Cant wait for the travers should be an awesome show! Can anyone tell me the status of Quality Road I need to know about my favorite horse the only horse than can take RA down!

The only reason why Zenyatta dosen't race out of CA is because her owners want to incourage CA racing(I heard them say it). Its just like the Jacksons not wanting RA to run on synthic. Yes RA will more than likly win best 3 year old filly but HOTY belongs to who ever can win as many races in one year and races that really count(G1's). If Zenyatta smokes the boys in the BC she has the HOTY, she was very close to it last year and dont forget she's coming up on the all time record of the most races won EVER won  back after back. RA would have had HOTY if she ran in the BC but by the chocie that the Jacksons made it might coast them HOTY and that grade prize will most likely go to Zenyatta, she dose need to get out of CA though.

Jason,

Thanks for yet another good bit of fun.

Looks like you hit the top contenders at this point.

There are indeed many scenarios.

I agree, Jess does not want the 10F AND the colts at the same time.

Perfectly understandable.

However, I also agree with you that 10F AND the colts (ie Travers) might be enough to lock it.

It is too bad that Well Armed has been so long on the shelf.

I'm not necessarily a devoted follower of Well Armed, but he is a very good horse.

I'm proud of his accomplishment in Dubai (although that field not a $6M field).

Even if he were to 'win-out' (which I'm not really sure what that would be, but would probably need to include the Pacific Classic and the BC Classic) I'm not sure he would be a lock, but it would add another name to the mix, which can only widen the scope of the discussions.

Go FS!

Everyone keeps saying Zenyatta hasn't been out of CA but she was shipped to Churchill in May and was going to run there but didn't because of the rain.  They didn't want to take a chance with her on the slop.  I don't suppose she's ever run on a wet track because it NEVER rains in CA!  I know, I live here and it almost never rains and we are running out of water.  

RE: Helsbelles

People who want to believe that owners and trainers will destroy a horse purposely, for monetary gain, need no proof to support their judgements. Allegations made in a lawsuit that are not based on facts, and that are unsubstantiated by the actions of the parties involved will suffice to support their beliefs.

In the original lawsuit it is claimed by Lanzman that IEAH CORPORATION acted outside of the sale contract, illegally, prior to the Kentucky Derby. (Very boring legalize law).

IEAH Corp. in turn filed suit, alleging physical misdeeds on the part of Lanzman and Munnings that acted against the welfare of the horse. (Exciting, horse mistreatment, diverts the attention from the prior actions by IEAH, covers their a-- with the investors that they in turn brought in).

Whatever the truth be in this case, let the courts decide. Do not smear the reputations of those involved, and unnamed others based on a corporate lawyer's words that have yet to be proven true.      

AFLEETALEXFOREVER:

Hello!!!!!

It seems to me that Zenyatta beat a very strong bunch of DIRT HORSES on a DIRT TRACK including the champion Ginger Punch when she humbled that one and others in the Apple Blossom, her only start on dirt.

I don't see why people like you have to contnuously put her down.  She races where her onnections enter her so far she has one exactly what she has to do to win.....which by the way is all she has ever done so far.

As far as Rachel is concerned, a lot of people are turning against her simply because of certain know-it-all bandwagon jumpers.  The point is, she doesn't win because of them, but on the other hand, they are know-it-alls because of her.  What's going to happen to these people if she loses the Haskel...a very strong possibility.  What will the excuses be then.

Dray,

Who's this sprinting champion RA beat that you're talking about? I don't remember an eclipse award winning sprinter in the Preakness?

AFLEETALEXFORER:

A case in point that some people who are so predjudiced that they can't see straight, or maybe they choose not to:.

Zenyzatta won her last race, the Vanity in 1:48.

She won it by only extending herself for a very short distance in the race.

She actually raced against a field of horses, not just two.

Rachel's time in the Mother Goose was great...you can't take that away from her, but the reason I'm not sold is that the other two horses ran ridiculously fast fractions against each other and as a result set it up perfectly for her.  In fact, they ran so fast up front that they reminded me of a RABBIT, which according to a certain blogger is NOT PLAYING FAIR.

I just love how all these people are saying that RA isn't as great as some of us believe her to be, were (and in most cases still are) the ones who think MTB (aka the Fluke) is the cat's pajamas.  You can't have it both ways.  

Rock,

he doesn't say sprinting champion, he said sprint record holder.

Rachel will win no questions.

"Everyone keeps saying Zenyatta hasn't been out of CA but she was shipped to Churchill in May and was going to run there but didn't because of the rain.  They didn't want to take a chance with her on the slop".

This is certainly not the way to influence the turf writers when voting for HOTY. Bad enough Zen only races in CA. mostly at SA. Meanwhile, so far this year RA has raced in 5 different states on  fast, good and sloppy tracks.

I still say the connections of Zenyatta are doing this wonderful mare a great disservice by not leaving CA, and traveling to the major tracks in other parts of the country..facing the best fields including RA and proving how good she is and letting more racing fans get to see her. If she continued her winning streak under those conditions, she would not only be HOTY, she would go down one of the 2 or 3 best distaffers ever.  

And not to beat a dead horse (no pun intended), but what the Hell were the BC people smoking when they scheduled the BC races TWO years in a row at a very controversial and bias surface like SA? Never before was it at the same location two years in a row, no less at a controversial track. If not for that, imagine the excitement that would be building now.

Big Drama doesn't want to meet RA again.  But then again, Fab Strike didn't want to meet Munnings (+weight) at 7 f which is a pretty strong endorsement of Munnings.  Does anyone think Munnings can bring his best to 9f?

It's such a shame that SA went to a synthetic track.  SA is such a beautiful place and you really don't have to worry about rain when the BC is here but with the synthetic track, it screws up everything.  Wish they would go back to dirt.

RACHEL ALEXANDRA is not better than RUFFIAN, that's pretty evident. RUFFIAN never lost, she was a speed demon who broke track records and stakes records every time she ran, and she never lost a race (I know the match race "counts" in her record but I don't count races where horses break down and die). RACHEL ALEXANDRA has run one fast race (Mother Goose), has dominated a dreadful crop of 3 year old fillies, has already lost 3 races, but she did beat the boys in a Preakness where the Top 10 3 year old colts didn't show up. RUFFIAN was more brilliant, faster, and just a terror on the racetrack. RACHEL has a lot of catching up to do.

I have a question for "HopeforaTripleCrown", do you ever take the time to listen to anything that you say or write.  Lets look at your statement. Zenyatta races in CA to encourage CA racing.  Never have the Moss’s been quoted as saying that.  Here is what Mr. Moss said before the running of the Mother Goose. Saturday morning, in an interview on the "Down the Stretch" radio show on Sirius XM radio, Jerry Moss, the owner of Zenyatta, said "there's a good chance" Zenyatta would leave Southern California to race this year and that he "would very much like" to see his mare face Preakness winner Rachel Alexandra. "Obviously, we take it race to race," Moss said. "[Sheriffs] is going to need a week to see how she's come through this . . . then maybe we'll say something about where our next start will be, and it could be out of the state for certain."

Hmmmmmmmmmm, looks like Cali wasn’t on his mind at that time.  Well then R.A. goes out and runs 1 1/8 mile 3 seconds faster than the slow footed Zenyatta.  All of a sudden paths change. Lol I think that’s funny. If you can’t beat the best run against the rest in Cali.  But lets look at the rest of what you say.  You say to win HOY a horse has to win as many races in 1 year and races that really count (G1). Hmm Rachel has 3 Zenyatta 1. Thus far Zenyatta has a lot of work to do. But then you totally 100% contradict yourself and say that if Zen wins 1 race the BCC she gets HOY.  Then you totally lose focus and state that she is coming up on the all time record of the most races ever won back to back.  So my question again is do you ever do research before making statements or just fire off with incorrect information at all time? Pepper’s Pride 19 in a row, Cigar 16 in a row, just to name two, so lets see Zenyatta is 11-11. Is she going to race 9 more times this year.  No I think not, please try to post facts it works a lot better than just flat out being wrong.

I have been accused of being too negative on these blogs but in my defense I think many are not looking at the whole picture. I am pro Point Given, I am pro Afleet Alex, I am pro Big Brown and I am pro Rachel Alexandra. I am pro Dr. Fager when comparing him to Damascus.  Most importantly I am pro present. I understand some look back with fondness about certain horses but it robs us of the greatness we are seeing today. Rachel in the Mother Goose ran a 108 split and a 133 mile with ease and went on to run a 146 winning by 20.  Ruffian never ran that fast.  Yet many of you still want to claim she is somehow better than her.  Sham is talked about in such glowing terms but the fact is Pioneer of the Nile accomplished much more in his career brief career.  Secretariat was a great horse and had the best Triple Crown series ever but the rest of his year never matched those 3 races.  His loss to Onion is hard to ignore and his other 2 were even worse. Yet everyone wants to look at the brief 5 week span and call him the greatest.  I suggested that should Rachel win out winning the Haskell and Travers she will complete the greatest 3 year old season ever even better than Secretariat's but that is seen as heresy. A few weeks ago I was at the track watching the Mother Goose and a father and son was sitting behind me.  Rachel was announced and shown warming up and the father said to his son, "There she is there is your horse!" The race started and the boy and his father cheered Go Rachel Go !!! After she crossed the wire the boy looked at his father and said, "Dad I don't want to cash this ticket I want to save it and show my friends... she's the best ever isn't she Dad?"

Before the father could say a word a man standing next to him said, "She's good but she's no Ruffian... Ruffian would whip her all day long." Geez...

Dave,

Check again. Here it is for ya. Just one of many exaggerated points by Dray...

"Some of you need to watch the Preakness again.  She had the outside post.  A post NO HORSE had EVER won from.  She was on just 2 weeks rest after winning the Oaks by 20 lengths. She was facing a sprinting champion and winner of his last 7 out of 8 and the Derby mud winner a dead closer. AND SHE STILL WON BY DAYLIGHT !"

Draynay 15 Jul 2009 11:51 PM

Mike S,

    Unbeaten is not everything, some of our greats, Secratariat, Man o War, Spectacular Bid, Cigar, Kelso, need i go on. Those horses are not unbeaten, and yet they are considered great. You say well RA has lost 3 races already. I'd almost bet you that if Zenyatta actaually raced outside of Cali this year she'd loose. If she ran against the Classic field last year or this year she'd lose. She has been coddled her whole career that is the ONLY reason she is unbeaten. Had TTS gone outside instead of trying to fit through the hole on the inside she would've handed Zen her first defeat. I believe the race was the Clement Hirsh. She beat GP, i'll give her that, but GP at that point was running just to get her back into the feel of racing, Zenyatta was already fit and in race mode. Hysterical Lady and GP both hated the Pro ride. CT was a fluke, and MN or CB has come back to do nothing this year. I give the mare credit for firing everytime, but she is lucky and coddled. She's very talented, but until she faces others on what is supposedly her favorite surface, dirt, and runs well, she's nowhere near RA.

Sorry Mike S. but Ruffian never ran as fast as Rachel in the Mother Goose and Rachel already smashed her time and her length of win record.

And Ruffian lost to the Derby winner and Rachel spanked him and 12 other boys. Ruffian has been passed up get over it.  Rachel is undefeated at 3 and Ruffian was not case closed move on.

afleetalexforever... welcome to the fight ! Lol... watch out they don't handle facts very well.

Thank you, Whatever, for your comment on Ruffian's 1 1/2 mile time and her being compared to Rachel.  Well said.  And RA being compared to Secretariat seems ridiculous.  

Mike S.

"ALEXANDRA has run one fast race (Mother Goose)"...

Then how do you explain RA has 3 of top 4 Beyer Speed ratings awarded this year?

And remember, Borel pulled her up before the finish line in her other 3 starts this year.

"One fast race"? LOL

BEST BEYERS in 2009 1 mile or more:

HORSE DATE DIST    BEYER

I WantRevenge 7Mar  1 1/16M 113

Quality Road  28 Mar 1 1/8M 111

Rachel Alex.  27 Jun 1 1/8M 111

Rail Trip   11 Jul  1 1/4M 111

Solar Flare 24 May 1 1/16M 111

Jonesboro   27 Jun  1 1/8M 109

Dunkirk     28 Mar  1 1/8M      108

Rachel Alex 01 May 1 1/8M 108

Rachel Alex 16 May 1 3/16M 108

AFLEETALEXFOREVER & Draynay:

Do you think that Rachel would have won the Mother goose in 1:33 & change on her own, either be setting the pace or running at slower fractions?

Do you really think she is capable of winning again in that time without running on a ridiculously fast track?

As far as Grade One wins......be careful what you call a Grade One race.  Do you really think that the Oaks was a Grade One field?  What about the Mother Goose?

Many of the Grade One races run these days, especially or dirt, are anything but.

Kevin -- I'm not about smearing anyone's reputation.  I realize I care more personally about this story because I am a huge fan of I Want Revenge.  Be careful Kevin not to let your distrust and dislike for, as you put it, "IEAH CORPORATION" blind you to facts.  Facts are facts, no matter how distateful you find the messenger.  Go back and read the full story, and decipher the truth.  You stated: "allegations made in a lawsuit that are not based on facts".  Do you have some inside information that you would like to share with us?  Or should we just take your word as gospel?  These are the facts that are being ALLEGED, and they are easily proven or disproven by checking veterinary records:  On April 4 the colt won the Wood Memorial Stakes on the dirt at Aqueduct.  I Want Revenge was diagnosed as being lame and had filling in his right front fetlock April 10 (six days after running in the Wood).  Additional treatments for the filling took place from April 11-13, and on April 14 an ultrasound was conducted on the injury. The colt was injected in the right front fetlock April 15 and was administered antibiotics for the next five days.  At no time was IEAH informed of any injuries suffered by the colt until they became aware that he was being scratched the morning of the Kentucky Derby. The colt was scratched from the Derby due to a torn ligament in the right front ankle, the exact location of the injury that was being treated beginning April 10, 2009.  The suit alleges that "rather than stop training on the colt and treating him for the injury, Lanzman sacrificed the colt’s health for his own potential financial gain".  

From my records his first work at Churchill was 4f with an extra furlong gallop out on April 14.  Do you remember there was no buzz during derby week surrounding this morning line favorite?  This would seem to explain that.  Perhaps everyone on the backstretch knew he was injured and would be scratched.  My point is Kevin, they should have never risked this colt's future racing career, and LIFE.  When the injury was discovered they should have done what Jerkins did with Quality Road, man up and forget about the Derby.  Live to race another day.  Now this magnificent colt is finished on the track.  God willing he will survive.  Personally, I don't care one bit about the money aspect on either side of it.  I just care about the horse.  You don't work or race a horse that is being treated with an injury.  It's very simple!

As someone who likes both RA and Zen, it amazes me people have to run down one of them to bring the other one up.  And as for Zen not running against quality horses, she can only run in the races her connections put her in - blame the connections if you must, but I'm tired of those who run down Zen.  She shows up every race and wins - I bet a lot of trainers would kill to have a horse like that!

All the people that are complaining about the BC going to SA again this year (it is most unusual) should perhaps running again at Monmouth with the six inches of rain they had which made the racing terrible or perhaps running at Belmont when the winds blow at 50 mph in the fall.

To be fair, you have to consider that Zenyatta was carrying 129 pounds in that last race.  That's a pretty heavy weight nowadays.  She's a big mare and can handle it but that would add some fractions onto her time for sure.  She ran a good race and still won going away with that weight assignment.  Pretty impressive.  

DOES Rachel camp really want to take on Munning.Stay with the females and run in BC DISTAFF and still get HOY.

THEY are Desrespecting Munning and TODD PLETCHER if they take him on  

IT WOULD be a nice race THEY MET

afleetalexforever:

Have you ever watched the Animal Planet series Jockeys? Well theres your answer, he said it on there. Yes I ALWAYS proof-read my writing. I'm not contradicting myself I meant FILLIES not COLTS when I meant the most races won. Dont blame me I'm getting this info of Bloodhorse not anywere else, so dont blame me one bit, its not my falt. I got that info from Zenyatta's last race. There not ALL

wrong, try reading every Bloodhorse artical there is and you'll then know were I found the info. Wow a whole 3 seconds, Zenyatta just wasen't on her toes that day. Zenyatta is a monster, she runs every horse into the ground when she races them. She's a come from behind horse so yes she dosen't make unbelivieable wins but if she was a leader like RA she'd have 20 length leads also. Mike Smith is a great jockey but he could have made a mistake in some of Zen's races(for example: letting her go to early, getting blocked in, etc.) Well if RA dones't race in the BBC nor the Travers and Zenyatta wins all of her next 9 races I think we'd see who gets HOTY. I wont aruge with Pepper's Pride's wins that for sure but if Zenyatta wins her next 9 starts she's got that sealed up because that would be 20 in a row.

Dray,

The greatest 3 year old season ever? For a filly, i'd have to take a look back in the history books, but to say that her campaign trumps a Triple Crown accomplishment is stretching it. Any horse that wins a Triple Crown, has accomplished one of the greatest 3 year old campaigns in my book. If Rachel crack 2:00 at CD & 2:24 @ BEL, then you might, might have a case.

IT IS SAD THAT I WANT REVENGE WAS LAME SIX DAYS AFTER WOOD.   TREATED LIKE A CLAIMING HORSE.

Zenyatta is also 5 years old and is getting pretty old to be racing, but yet at her age she amazes us but her power still. She's a monster and to be racing and winning consectuive races at her age is both impressive and unbeilieable! RA is 3 not 5. Zenyatta has to carry more weight then other horses she's racing agaist. I've never seen a slower crop of 3 year olds for this year(except RA).

To correct my earlier blog...the BEYER Speed figures I included were for all distances more than a mile (1 1/16 and up), not "1 mile or more". :)

What if MTB wins the WV and backs it up with a win in the Travers over Rachel and continues on to win the BC? Or what if he wins all three and rachel skips the Travers for the Alabama?

KD-Travers-BC wins(Th big three)

LAZMANNICK are you serious ?  Now your attacking Rachel's competition? Hey why don't you name for me all the G1 winners that ran in the 1973 Kentucky Derby and Preakness... list their G1 wins AFTER the Derby and Preakness exclude Secretariat and show me what a great bunch he defeated for the Triple Crown.  You want to talk about a weak bunch lets talk about the class of 1973. While your at it list for me all the greats Ruffian beat.  Its not Rachel's fault no one wants to face her.  Stop and look at the clock !!! Who wants to face a horse that runs a 146 while being eased 200 yards before the wire ?

Trainers are not stupid they know if that horse shows up she cannot be beaten.  Notice how Big Drama winner of his last 7 out of 8 left to take on the Derby winner instead of her.  Do you get it yet?

I agree it is unlikely, but only in the way that it is unlikely that any horse can pull something like that off. I believe MTB is the pick over either of the females at 10F. His biggest issue will be in the BC if a top flight Euro(SeaofStars)enters. I haven't handicapped at Hollywood very much(and I think the track has been modified several times) but 2:00.75 looks like a heck of a race so maybe Rail Trip is a new face to be reckoned with in the BC Classic.

Here's what I observed so far regarding all these comments:

1) SOME people can't stop whining about the fact that the BC is at SA AGAIN.

2) In order to celebrate one's favorite horse, SOME must denigrate all other horses, past or present.

3) SOME people think that 2009 is already over and that tomorrow is New Year's Day.

4) SOME people know with absolute certainty what the outcome of a race will be WAY before it is run.

Other then that, the blog is fascinating to read and makes me chuckle and grind my teeth all at the same time.

MY pick for this year's HOY:

I have no freaking idea!!! This will come as a shock to some of you but, it is TOO early YET!!!

Rock,

I figured he might have said it, but i couldn't be bothered to look past his most recent post about it.  Besides i was just trying to defend my bro.

for all those who keep bringing up munnings.  Does anyone honestly think he could get the 1 1/4 distance of the Travers to begin with, let alone beat the monster that is RA.

Amen, Zookeeper!

Of course, Draynay means other than Forego...and conveniently leaves out the insane list of horses Secretariat beat in other races(look at the Marlboro Cup) or the fact that if RA was in a race at 10F where a horse clocked 1:59 2/5 her jock would need cell phone to say congratulations to the winner.

HFtheTC,

    I do happen to watch jockies, we used to record them so we wouldn't miss an episode. Of couse we don't have them any more, but i never heard Moss or JS say anything about trying to help Cali racing in there. Also on the nine race crap. Did you see total how many races Zenyatta raced in last year, that would be 7, and that is for a whole season. This the campagn her trainer outlined was Milady and Vanity, both complete. Next the Clement Hirsh, the Ladies Secret, and most likely the Distaff. Then she will most likely be retired. When i look at how many races she is going to have between now and the end of december i count three, not nine. She will come nowhere near that win record. Zenyatta is not that old to race, people today just retire early. I've got so many books on horses i can't even count them, and most say horses reach physical maturity at five years old. I've heard form others some don't stop growing till they are six. This should mean Zenyatta should be at her finest. Also in her next couple of starts she will have equal weights, seeing as how they changed the Clement Hirsh to a Stakes.

helsbelles 16 Jul 2009 2:24 PM : Well said!

Dray-NAG : have you ever read any article published about Ruffian? Have you ever read a book where she is featured? You most likley haven't because if you had you'd know that in Ruffian's Mother Goose she wasn't touched with a whip and her jockey Vasquez was holding her back the final 16th of a mile. She wasn't allowed to run and Rachel was. Whitley always made sure his jockey wouldnt cut Ruffian loose. His job was to simply win & bring her back. (as is Mike Smith's job on zenyatta)Actually having the sheer ignorance to use the fact that the filly broke down in a race against her in your pathetic attempt to anoinet Rachel is so incredibly atroscious & all it does is simply disgust others who already believe you to be a loon even more.

Rachel's margin was wonderful to watch but who was her competition. You & anyone else who claims that Zenyatta is facing 'claiming' horses but of Rachel's other TWO opponents which of them was anything more then that??? Niether. For a tallented filly to walk all over second rate horses would you expect anything less then a romp? Its just the same like BB beating up on poor Wanderin Boy instead of facing actual competition after his Bel-flop.

Really Dray & anyone who knows zero about horse racing's past greats really need to do some research - whoever made some kind of claim that Rachel & Secretariat could be somehow compared is a total joke.

I bet RA will not win in SA, thats why JJ won't send her out there. Scared of Zen. Tell him to be a sportsman again this year. If not you RA supporters need to hush!!! When she beats Zen on SA tracks, then she will deserve HOTY.  Zenyatta doesn't have to prove any darn thing to me to be better than RA, she just is!!!! "LONG LIVE THE QUEEN,ZENYATTA!!!!

firts i will say that i think it will be very possible for rachel to be zenatta on a dirt track because of her fron running style, but as far as the mother goose i don't think she had real competition since everybody is afraid of competing agains her. now the traver is not happening, no matter how much we argue because of the distance, she already lock 3 yrs old fillie, even if she lose the haskell. i like munning not changing races becuse she is run in the races. this is going to be a repeat of last year wood memorial went War Pass fought for the lead but tire out and lost. my choice for the Haskell papa clam or summer bird.

Zookeeper your right one point can me made for sure though last year crew of 3 year olds were brutal, pyro was one of the top contenders last year did that horse ever run 100 beyer more than once, what a joke. Hoping for a triple crown this crew is way better than years past.

Good point JoeSchmo!!! Why did Curlin race on synthic and not RA? Isnt Curlin worth more than RA(Hello he richest horse in the world). May I ask why were fighting about this??? Its stupied, let the best horse win.LDP yes your right with the age stuff most horses do mature and stop growing at the age of 6. So Zenyatta is better and even more of a monster now then last year.

JoeSchmo I would say your name fits you perfectly welcome.  Lady Ruffian you better get YOUR facts straight before you start bashing others. Big Brown never faced Wanderin Boy that was HOY Curlin who kept beating him again and again.  Lady Ruffian I find it interesting that you smear me for bringing up the FACT that Ruffian lost to the Derby winner because she broke down but you don't afford the same courtesy to Big Brown who was pulled up and stepped on. I think the word you used was Bel-flop. AND last but not least I have watched every race Ruffian ever ran against 3 year old fillies and while she was very good she never accomplished the things Rachel has already accomplished and the records Rachel has broken previously held by Ruffian says it all.

It just isn't necessary to rip apart the accomplishments of one horse in order to glorify another.  Rachel is an incredible filly!  It does not make her better to desecrate the memory of beloved greats like Ruffian or Secretariat.  None of the great horses from the past have anything to prove, they are untouchable.  Zenyatta is an incredible mare!  Rachel's accomplishments do not become greater by belittling or criticising what Zenyatta has done.  Mine That Bird is a Kentucky Derby winner.  This is the most coveted race any owner and trainer wants to win. MTB will go down in history.  Calling him names will not change his accomplishment - it was an amazing, glorious run.  If you don't remember just how amazing it was pull it up and watch it again.  Each of these horses deserves to be treated with respect. No matter which horse wins HOY, it won't mean there aren't others also worthy; it just means they had to chose one.

Lady Ruffian here is the 1975 Mother Goose by Ruffian.  Notice the jockey is down and running here ALL THE WAY to the wire.  Compare that to Borel and his easing of Rachel 200 yards before the wire.  Video does not lie.

www.youtube.com/watch

It ain't easy...

Please enlighten me as to your comment regarding my post. Surely you got the name wrong!

TerriV,

I couldn't say it better! My feelings EXACTLY!

And I do stand corrected. I mixed up Shakis & Wanderin Boy (b/c they both broke down with a few weeks of eachother.)

The records that RA is breaking and the public interest she is generating for racing is undoubtable what the sport needs. But winning against nobodies by daylight though amazing to watch shouldnt go into history books as 'the greatest ever' best 3yo filly of 09. yes. IF she beats a healthy QR then best 3yo in the country. BUT not a horse of the year. I've stated my case that as of right now (subject to change in the coming months) Einstein should be in front.

The filly is a blast to watch- a genuinly talented animal. But for her to be treated already as if the horses of yesterday pale in comparison is simply downplaying their accomplishments in order elevate another - for a true champion that doesn't ned to happen

Draynay,

Thank you for the link to Ruffian's victory in the Mother Goose. It sure proves what a fabulous filly she truly was. Thank you for making her fans' point for them!

east coast bias , just like in every other sport! how many east coasters come out west and destroy these "weak" west coast horses? NOT MANY... most of the time they go down  when they come out here, just like rachel will, just like curlin did, just like parading just did, just like st. liam did... i can go on and on.east coast bias determines horse of the year, so who cares who they vote for, zenyatta is the champ!

Dray- ive seen the replay 10x - just because vasquez wasn't putting on a show for the crowd by looking over his shoulder during the last 16th doesn't mean that vasquez was riding ruffian hard at all. are you kidding me? he sat chilly on her.

The only races out there where the two fillies could be compared is Ruffian's Acorn

www.youtube.com/watch

and Rachel's Fantasy

www.youtube.com/watch

Similar styles. Similar margins of victory.

The Rachel is good. borderline great - but i think that it was secretariat's owner who said 'you can't compare two horses of different generations b/c it does each a disservice' when she was asked if secretariat was greater then citation.

degrading one filly to make another seem better isn't the way to go about explaining how good she is.

Steve S -- you added the knockout punch to my diatribe.  Thank You.  I must admit, I keep staring at your comment and crying, not just for IWR but for the poor claimers.  I always wondered why they can run like clockwork every two weeks, huh.  If you are out there Wanda, this is why I can't watch cheap claiming races.  (and thank you my sis Lady Ruffian)

Draynay,

You have got to stop these comparisons to Ruffian and Secretariat.  There is just no comparison there.  Ruffian was a monster horse who had such a huge heart that she tried to keep running on a broken leg.  As I recall, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that Mr. Janney said when she awakened she re-injured that leg because she thought she was still in the race.  He put down that tremendous horse so she wouldn't suffer and that still makes me cry because she was so special and we have not seen the likes of her since.  She gave her life to what she loved most, running.  She is in a class all alone and we horse racing fans revere that marvelous and courageous filly and we take exception to the remarks you have made.  Ruffian's memory deserves to be respected and those of us upset by your tirade love her and honor her.  You don't have to tear down Ruffian to appreciate Rachel nor do you have to trash Secretariat to make a point.  Secretariat is among the greats of this sport and you will never sway anyone to your way of thinking except the other people who never like Secretariat and can't give him credit for what he accomplished.

You are entitled to your opinion and I know you have chosen Rachel as your horse this year and no one begrudges you that!  I love her too but leave Ruffian and Secretariat alone.  You are certainly entitled to your opinions and no one would say anything negative about them if you would not be so negative about the greats of years past.  Leave them be, they have nothing left to prove to anyone, they've already done that.

I must say Draynay has a point in saying he is "pro-present."  I think there is a lot of cachet, for lack of a better word, in being able to say that you saw the great Ruffian run.  I would love to be able to say it.  

But we have a super filly right now, and we should enjoy her.  Time will tell if her accomplishments eclipse those of Ruffian.  I respect those who say Rachel is better as well as those who say she is not.  I definitely feel Ruffian will never lose her place in history; she is the tragic heroine, kind of like an equine Joan of Arc.  

But like that old song "Anticipation" by Carly Simon says, "These are the good old days."  So far it sure looks like Rachel will have her place in history, too, carved out with her talent and charisma and (we pray) no tragedy this time.

Really for HOY it's all Rachel and Einstien. Zenyatta would have to come out of CA for the title. I think she'll win the Haskell.

The condition of the track when RACHEL ALEXANDRA won the Mother Goose this year was wildly and ridiculously fast. And to say that because RACHEL ALEXANDRA "beat the Derby winner" that it somehow makes her better than RUFFIAN is absurd. Most of you have been talking, since the Derby, about what an awful horse MINE THAT BIRD is! He's actually quite a good horse, though. And MINE THAT BIRD is not as great as every other, or any other, Derby winner just because he's a Derby winner. It's pretty clear that FOOLISH PLEASURE was a much better horse. Besides, RUFFIAN never had the opportunity to "beat the boys"...SHE DIED!!!

I know that "undefeated" isn't everything. I totally recognize that. But what I'm really saying is that RACHEL ALEXANDRA lost 3 times last year, but RUFFIAN not only dominated the competition at the age of 3, she was also dominant at the age of 2 (and was the champion).

I like RACHEL ALEXANDRA, and I think she's amazing and awesome, I just don't think she's RUFFIAN's equal. As for ZENYATTA...now that is one awesome and phenomenally great chick.

RE: Helsbelles

I have no inside information, just the public record of the lawsuits.

IEAH claims a co-owner failed to inform them of physical problems with the horse. There is no claim that they were not notified by the trainer of the horse.

It is the responsibility of the trainer to keep the owner(s) notified of a horses condition.

IEAH Corporation is not a passive investment firm. They are very involved and active in the decision making process with each and every acquisition. If there was no strict requirement in the sale contract that the IEAH House DVM's be notified of any problems with the horse, it would be a first.

IEAH alleges that Lanzman was to receive additional money if the Derby was won. It is public record that the additional investors brought in by IEAH would pay a premium to IEAH if the Derby was won.

The lawsuit brought by the IEAH Corporation was in response to lawsuit filed against them alleging a contract dispute. They have not answered these charges. Instead they publicly broadcast allegations of physical mistreatment by the co-owner, their partner, who was audacious enough to sue them.

My observations:

IEAH was very astute with their follow up lawsuit. We are not discussing them allegedly trying to bilk a partner out of money, are we?

Helsbelles, in conclusion, my comments were made only to prevent a rush to judgment of people. There appears to be many hairs that will need to be split before this case is settled. Also, no I do not wish you, and would never expect you to take my words as gospel. Just don't accept the words of others, corporate or not, as so.

It is the horse(s) we care about, and that caring can and will be used by others for their own purpose and cause.

This might or might not relate but, gangster Willie Sutton after robbing a bank would run right  up to the nearest cop, and tell them some guys robbed the bank

and ran that way. Pointing to the opposite direction from which he then headed.    

Helsbelles, as Harvey Pack says, "may the horse be with you" always may the horse be with you.

Don't ever stop caring about the horse, that is gospel.

Dray,

    Your lack of respect for the Greats of the past boggles the mind.  Why do feel it is necessary to put down or belittle another to make your flavor of the month seem better?  There are ways to make your case without doing what you constantly do.  Since you came back from your ban, It has, at least for me, been less enjoyable coming to Jason's Blog and seeing some of your demeaning comments.  I love a good argument back and forth, and different points of views on various horses, that's what makes Jason's Blog great, But you bring that level down each time you make one of your over the top comments.  To you, Numbers and Stats are everything, and that is where you start to go wrong, You weren't there to see Secretariat, Sham, Ruffian, and all the other greats run, I wasn't there either, BUT you will NEVER see me put down another horse to prove my point, EVER.  Your utter disrespect for Mine that Bird is amazing, Are you that immature that you can't bring yourself to say his name?, You have to call him, "The Fluke" and "The Derby Mud Winner"?  Also, Comparing a horse that runs today to a horse that ran in another era is almost impossible to do, But you continue to do it and in a condescending way.  To call yourself a fan of the Sport of Champions, In my opinion, is a Joke and a disservice to this sport...

TerriV, your last post is the most sane post on this blog. Draynay and his passion (not hostility) is never going to listen so don't waste your energy. As much as I don't agree with many of these posts, I believe all should be given the chance to speak, for is this not America? We can go on and on,and no one really can be proven right or wrong. They can only be proven well thought out,and be respectfully of each other and the great horses that we all love. Or not.

Come on man! When is RACHEL ALEXANDRA going to come out to California? Until she does we won't know how great she is because she's only beating up on the sub-standard competition on the East Coast and in the Mid-West. Hiding from California isn't going to do her any good.

HFtheTC,

    Though Curlin is a great horse, he is not the richest horse in the world, he is the richest American based horse. The world record is held by a horse from Japan i think, i'm not sure, and the record is around 17mil, i think.

Draynay,

What records are you referring to with Rachel Alexandra and Ruffian?

Are you talking about the margin of victory, or beating the males...?

I have to go look it up because I'm not sure as to the times at distances in races...  I think Ruffian ran faster times but I could be wrong..

I think if they let her go she could very well beat some of Ruffians times.. I know Ruffian ran a 2:27 and 4/5 at a mile and a half in the American Oaks... but that's a moot point..

Kat,

In response to your post at 1:06pm I believe that Munnings presents a very live challenge to "Rachel" in the Haskell.  This horse is a maternal gandson of the great Holy Bull and has come to hand in time to shake up the 3YO picture going into the second half of the season.  He may be more of a sprinter/miler type but his pedigree suggests that 9 furlongs around two turns is not beyond him.  Any 3YO that can scare off the sprinting monster Fabulous Strike from the Tom Fool stakes is not fooling around.  A good look at his last two races show that he has the speed, pace and press-button acceleration to be a worthy opponent to "Alexandra the Great".  Having already scored against older horses while scaring off the top sprinter, if he wins the Haskell, defeating "Rachel", races like the Whitney, the Woodward, the BC Dirt Mile and/or the Cigar Mile could put him firmly in the HOTY picture.  I think his trainer, the bold and ambitious Todd Pletcher is well aware of this.

My view is that Rachel Alexandra is the best middle distance Dirt/synthetic horse in North America right now.  It will take a very special one to lower her colors but Munnings is a rising star so everyone should beware.  

Even with the defection of Big Drama (seeking an easier Grade one assignment in the West Virginia Derby) this Haskell has the potential to be quite a humdinger and a gut wrencher for both horses.  It could "knock them out" for the Travers and King's Bishop respectively so all their potential challengers in those prestigeous races will be paying attention.  What a drama.    

Lady Ruffian,

    Flashing was just coming off a graded stakes win, i believe that is more than a claimer.

Joe,

    Zenyatta has raced twice this year, twice. As of now she is in now way anywhere near HOTY, and beating up the same fillies over and over again won't help her. RA is UNBEATEN this year, and THIS year is all that count for HOTY, not last year. RA does not have to come west, and honestly Zen does not have to come east. But if RA has to beat boy at that 1 1/4 so does Zen. It's not fair to say to RA do one thing and let Zen just sit back and do nothing, which honestly is what she is doing. RA has been busting her butt all season so far. Including the Preakness she ran an average of 1 race per 2.5 weeks. She has raced at five different tracks this year all in different states. Zenyatta has raced twice in one state on one track ALL season. Going to KY then scrating does not count, seeing as how she didn't race. Another point just made RA has run over fast, good, sloppy, all kinds of conditions so far. Zenyatta seems to need either a synthetic or a fast track. Since those are the only two conditions she has ever raced over. RA has done more this year period. Remember most of these are facts, except for maybe the first five sentences, i've provided facts.

It's ridiculous trying to compare horses from different eras,it's just not plausible.

The fact is,RA is a very good filly who has easily out-classed the 3yo filly opponents she's faced so far. Ex: In the Oaks,the sprinter/miler GGG set a solid pace then spit the bit turning for home.With a bunch of Gr.III/allowance type,distance challenged fillies behind her,she crushed them like a good filly should. In the depleted Mother Goose,her 2 opponents set ridiculous splits and had nothing left when the real running began,hence another visually impressive win by RA. The final times set that day mean nothing at all,claiming/allowance horses were running lights-out all day. Now, her 1 race vs. respectable opponents in the Preakness against colts where she had to run hard throughout,she wasn't as brilliant looking and dominant as she was against the fillies was she? She barely held-on for the win while defeating the over-achieving Derby winner MTB,the hard-knocking MM,the sprinter/miler Big Drama,the tired POTN and the rest of the 2nd/3rd & 4th tier group of colts in that field.The 2weeks in between the Oaks/Preakness was no biggie considering she had an easy time of it in her previous gallops.If she was that great,I'm thinking she should have set some kinda' record that day,with her having to pick up her feet from start to finish. The Haskell will not be a cakewalk,but it's not shaping-up to be a star studded event either.1 1/8m against those opponents should be fine,but forget about her going into the Travers @ 1 1/4m vs. better colts at their peak. Her connections know her limits and they absolutely know that the Best show up for the BC. They're not going to the World Championship for fear of losing..just  ask Curlin(no excuses).  BTW: a healthy Rags to Riches would've smoked her no doubt.  :}

I just got in from running, yes running and feeding the dogs. It is HOT and HUMID in DE. Yes i know it is summer, but we've been luck and this is the first bad day we have had. I went trail riding on my boy and both broke a sweat just WALKING. That is how stupid hot it is here. Just to let you know i'm heat sensitive, but Tray hardly ever sweats and he did today. Good lord i don't mind spring or fall, but i hate the two extremes Winter, and currently hot sticky humid buggy summer. Grrrrr.

TerriV - for your 4:43 comment - thank you.  Well said.

The fact is this blog has turned into who's better, Rachel or Ruffian.

And this is the first time I have ever heard another 3 yr old filly ever mentioned in the same breath as the immortal Ruffian. Not Serena's Song, not Go For Wand ect., etc.   And to me, that says it all.

DRAY

RUFFIAN WAS NEVER WHIPPED AFTER HER FIRST START WHEN JACINTO VASQUEZ IGNORED FRANK WHITELY.RA is being whipped every race, ruffian was only hit once. oh and just because ruffian didn't run in a triple crown event doesn't mean she worse then winning colors and genuine risk. AT LEAST RUFFIAN CAN GET 1 1/2 UNLIKE RA.

Draynay:

First of all, in answer to your question about G1 winners in the 1973 Kentucky Derby and Preakness, I thought that even you knew about Forego (he only won something like 14 G1’s after the Derby, but oddly enough, none before it).

However, to phrase the answer the way you want it isn't fair because we don’t know what most of the horses Rachel raced against have done after meeting her, (although the Preakness field was so ORDINARY that when those that competed in it raced in the Belmont they all lost to a maiden winner).

Because of this I’ll confine it pretty well to what G1’s the field in the ’73 Derby won before the Derby, which I think is more important.  The answer is (without checking all those that competed):

Sham…S A Derby

Our Native…Flamingo, Monmouth Park Inv. (I think that this was after the Derby)…also beat the 1973 Travers winner Annihilate)

Royal & Regal…Florida Derby

My Gallant…Bluegrass

Angle Light…Wood Memorial

Of the others….

Shecky Greene was strictly a sprinter.

Restless Jet…never won a Grade 1

Navajo…..Don’t know

Gold Bag….Don’t know

Twice a Prince…never won a Grade 1

Warbucks…Never won a Grade 1, but won the Clarke and Oaklawn Hdcp., tough races, but not g1.s

As far as horses like Ecole Etage, Calling Card and Deadly Dreamer (Secretariat’s other Preakness competition) I don’t know much about them.  Maybe Gun Bow can fill us in….he seems to know everything about racing.

To date:  the only G1 winning filly Rachel raced against was the filly that won the Acorn, Gabby’s Golden Girl, and she won the Acorn after they faced each other in the Oaks.

The only Grade one winners Rachel raced against in the rather ordinary Preakness field were MTB (so called fluke), POTN (synthetic specialist), General Quarters (20K claimer & G1 also on a synthetic surface)

In closing, I’m not attacking Rachel’s competition.  I’m just saying the obvious……when compare against tohorses of the past they are extremely ordinary.  In the meantime, it seems okay for you to attack others, but that’s what I like about you, at least you’re consistent.

As far as Ruffian, I don’t have time to embarrass you anymore tonight.

asmussen suspended again.  jackson had a problem with cheaters until he hired one.  watch out dutrow, o'neal, mullins, mcglaughlin, pletcher.  you're next.

Laz,

    Since when is running second in the Derby being a synthetic specialist? That horse was dead tired in the Preakness and had just had it. His connections should've waited for the Belmont, which he probably would've done well in. But alas the ego and pride won out and they raced a tired horse in the Preakness.

Thomas,

    How do you know she can't get 1.5 miles? She hasn't ever run it so you can't possibly know all you can do is assume. I hope you know the saying that goes with that word, to assume makes and a// out of you and me. You can't possibly KNOW if RA can get 1.5 miles if she's never done it.

Mike S,

    If RA is hiding out then what is Zenyatta doing. Before they saw RA smash the MG field they were all for a meeting. Well they changed their mind pretty fast AFTER they saw her. Nobody has to go anywhere, and if you insist that RA has to come west to meet Zen on her home turf, the Zen has to come east to beat RA on her best surface. Otherwise it's not going to prove anything if RA hates the surface. Zenyattas connections are the ones hiding out, at least JJ had the guts to take on the boys. JS say no because that and going 1 1/4 may be too much for Zenyatta. Please, if she can't do man up and say it, if she can than let her do it.

Draynay:

I won’t compare Rachel to Ruffian just yet.  Maybe after she accomplishes a lot more then we can start thinking about it.  After all, Ruffian’s record speaks for itself:

• Undefeated in all races except her last

• Won her races by an average of 8+ lengths

• Champion at 2 & 3, Triple Tiara Winner and in the Racing Hall of Fame

• # 35 on list of top 100 horses all time.

• Set and equalled numerous records

• Didn’t really get a chance to prove that he was even greater than what she had shown up to then.

• Etc. etc. etc.

I won’t compare Rachel to Mom’s command just yet:

• Won 11 of 16

• Every race she competed in was a stakes race

• Broke her maiden in a stakes race

• Won Triple Tiara (6th of 8 to do so)

• Defeated 18 different horses in the Triple Tiara

• Won from 5 1/2F to 1-1/2M.

• Defeated every filly that ever finished in front of her

• If you question her class, she defeated among others: Fran’s Valentine, Outstandingly and Lady’s Secret

And Mom’s Command, as outstanding as she was, isn’t really included when we talk about the great fillies and mares of the past.

If Rachel accomplished even half of what Mom’s Command accomplished, I’ll start to be a believer.  What she has done so far, though admiral, can’t be considered great because to be great you have to beat great and please tell me what future hall of famers or top 100 horses she has beaten so far.

The point that I am trying to make is even though I respect Rachel, and even if she does turn out to be as great as you think she is, she has a long way to go to get there….period.

Jason because pro ride plays so much like turf, I think the Classic will be the toughest race to win this year--I think it was last year as well, and Europe will be coming hard again! A win by Zen and I'll give her my vote...on the other hand, a Travers win would be sop huge foe Rachel--I DON'T think she can win that race, and I have my doubts about Zenyatta winning the Classic...BOTH races would be worthy of championship honors, heck how about we seeing if Rachel can beat a good horse or two in the fall, there's lot's of racing left!

LDP I take issue with your posting that Zenyatta has been coddled...Zenyatta is a Cali Based Mare.....She races in the Cali Graded Stakes Program.....She shipped east for her FOURTH start vs Ginger Punch....It HAPPENS the Breeders Cup is in SoCal two years in a row, but that mare has taken on all comers, not males, mind you, I have the feeling they will, but racing strictly in graded stakes, and at the age of FIVE, does not a coddled horse make!

AT least Zenyatta has beaten good foes---You get the feeling Rachel would too, but I still want to see it....Example: My brother assured me Easy Goer was as good or better than Secretariat/ he chided me for placing him 2nd in my Derby Tri to Sunday Silence, but Easy Goer is a lot like Rachel--very fast, STILL relatively untested....Zenyatta is the test, she even looks like Sunday Silence! I don't care where they line up, give them a fair pace, CA-CHING!

LDP:

I get sick and tired about hearing how tired today's pampered horses get.  If POTN raced 30 years ago, based on his stamina he wouldn't have won much.  Those horses were trained to race and that's what they did...race.  I don't recall many trainers complaining that their horses were tired in the old days.

Another point...(pardon my pun), if Point Of The Nile was so tired in the Preakness, how could they possibly have thought that he had a chance to be a triple crown winner?

As far as POTN being a synthetic specialist, what races has he won on dirt?  If people can call Zenyatta a synthetic specialist then why can't they call POTN one.

Greg J. I simply have no idea what you are talking about.  Where did I belittle one of the greats. Show me where I belittled Ruffian or Secretariat.  We keep times of races and wins and losses to keep score.  The only time you can't compare the present with the past is when the past doesn't come out as well.  I have already said Ruffian was A VERY GOOD HORSE but you compare what Rachel has done this year times and records RACHEL is a better 3 year old than RUFFIAN.  I am not knocking Ruffian I am simply stating the facts.  Ruffian ran a 134.2 in the ACORN mile very nice and a 147 and change in the Mother Goose very nice but Rachel ran faster.  Rachel won by more lengths and Rachel beat the Derby winner and Rachel is undefeated at 3. We keep records and stats so we CAN COMPARE.  Ruffian never ran as fast as Rachel did in the Mother Goose.  Don't blame me, the facts are the facts.  What is so wrong about admitting Rachel is a more accomplished and faster horse then Ruffian ?  What is wrong with acknowledging greatness today ?  Now there is someone on here bragging that Ruffian beat 3 year olds at a 1 1/2.  Does ANYONE want to see Rachel run a 1 1/2 against 3 year olds ??? She would win by 40.  Ruffian was a very good horse but she only faced 3 year old horses and never faced males and won as we all know and she never ran a 146. That is not tearing down a horse that is simply comparing the two.  The fact is when you compare the two Rachel comes out on top.  Records are made to be broken and it doesn't ruin history or their memory when someone tops them, its what happens in sport. And Greg let me clue you in I was THERE to see Sham and Secretariat run I was glued to my TV to watch Ruffian take on the Derby champion. I saw many of the greats at Hialeah like THE BID and SEATTLE SLEW.  My disrespect for Derby Mud winner is personal and I called him a fluke winner because like Giacomo that is exactly what he has been up to this point.  He has raced 5 times this year and his only win is the Derby.  Unless he finds a way to beat Big Drama next week it will be his only win all year.  So is it REALLY a stretch to call a horse that wins ONE RACE ALL YEAR A FLUKE WINNER ?

Look up the word Greg if the shoe fits... it fits!

Uhhhh...hello....hello...hello...is anyone home? RUFFIAN did not "LOSE" to FOOLISH PLEASURE.

SHE DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RUFFIAN is probably about 4-1/2 to 5-3/4 lengths better than RACHEL ALEXANDRA.

But we'll see if RACHEL ALEXANDRA does enough to get Horse of the Year this year. She might. But I think WELL ARMED is going to get that honor...if COLONEL JOHN doesn't. It's going to be a great second half of the year for the TIZNOW boys.

LAZMMANICK... Mom's Command ? Didn't she run the Mother Goose 2 1/2 seconds slower than Rachel ?  What males did she beat ?  Did she win a Triple Crown race ?  The problem is Rachel is not even allowed to run against 3 year old fillies anymore.  Ask Jason our moderator, ask him if he wants to see Rachel crush 3 year old horses by 20 lengths again.  So now RACHEL HAS TO STEP UP and go where no filly has gone before and do things no filly has done before.  She now has to win the Haskell and Travers something no filly has even come close to accomplishing. Do you really want to continue comparing her to Mom's Command or Ruffian who didn't win a Triple Crown race and only beat 3 year old fillies ?  You want to compare Mom's Command winning the Cherry Blossum Stakes and the Flirtation Stakes to Rachel winning the Haskell ?  Really ?

Great article Jason!  I agree with your ideas about how things may turn out and what it may take to win.  I personally hope it is Zenyatta or Rachel but I don't care which because I like them both!

Dray - I agree with your points sometimes even though your presentation leaves something to be desired.  BUT, when you sink so low as to use against a horse the fact that a race was lost due to DYING - well that is just pathetic! From here on out I will skip your posts!

I really wonder where you people get this stuff.  THOMAS MARCEDA stated that R.A. has felt the whip every race.  Lets see I live in Arkansas and was at Oaklawn for the Martha Washington (Hand Ride,Never asked to run, geared down at the finish), was at Oaklawn and watched the FairGround Oaks on tv (Hand Ride,Never asked to run, geared down at the finish),, was there for the Fantasy (Hand Ride,Never asked to run, geared down at the finish), the Kentucky Oaks (Hand Ride,Never asked to run, geared down at the finish), the Preakness (per Calvin the first time he hit the filly), The Mother Goose (Hand Ride,Never asked to run, geared down at the finish).  Are you blind or are YOU JUST A LIAR, which is it.  I mean little children can watch the race and see that the whip has been swung towards R.A. twice in 1 race.  Also Thomas do you own R.A. or are you her trainer, or are you around the horse, so where does ur professional opinion come into play that verifies that she can’t get 12 furlong. Just ridiculous!!!

Okay.............for everyone that was not listening earlier......RACHEL is a freak!  But GOZZIP GIRL IS A BIGGER FREAK!  You heard it here first.  Rachel wants no part of her.  As for HOY honors GIO PONTI is the man.  The best American grass horse since JOHN HENRY.  He also loves SA and Clement might go for the big enchalada to sew up HOY.

BC MILE TURF........Goldikova

BC MILE DIRT........Munnings

BC TURF.............Sea The Stars

BC FILLY & MARE TURF....Gozzip Girl

BC SPRINT TURF......Overdose

BC CLASSIC..........Gio Ponti

Please don't disrespect little MINE THAT BIRD.  If not for two bad rides he's a triple crown winner.  His last 6 furlongs in the Derby was faster than SECRETARIAT, AFFIRMED, SEATTLE SLEW AND SPECTACULAR BID.  If his run is timed right he can beat anyone out there at 1 1/4 miles.  

Compare the "HOY campaigns" of Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta to 1986 HOY Lady's Secret.

"In 1986, four-year-old Lady's Secret became a dominant force in American thoroughbred racing. She defeated the nation's best male horses four times, winning ten of her fifteen starts that season, all graded stakes races. Eight of these Stakes wins were Grade 1 events. " - Wikipedia

Now that's a real HOY campaign,15 races on all tracks, East or West, all conditions, all comers, male or female, didn't duck anyone and No Excuses.

Go to YouTube and check out her 1986 Whitney win in the slop at Saratoga or her 1986 BC Distaff win at Santa Anita.

LDP : my point to Dray-NAG was that he calls every horse that Zen has faced this year a claimer. Though (IMO) in the same 'league' as Flashing, Zen has faced Briecat who has also won graded stakes.

To reiterate - Rachel's competition of females (thus far) in her career pales in comparison to the horses that Zenyatta has already taken down.

Since there seems to be no end to this RA v. Zen debate - some of you may like to read a different solution to the problem at hand.

sports.espn.go.com/.../story

Helesbelles: will you be in Del Mar for the Clement Hirsch? I'll be in town the 7th, 8th & 9th!

Much racing remains, and there is no guarantee that any of the horses being discussed will even be healthy a month from now.

That cautionary disclaimer aside, Rachel Alexandra is MY clear mid-season Horse of the Year. And not to anger others, it really isnt even close. The 2009 Horse of the Year will be given to a horse based on its accomplishments during the 2009 calendar year only. Thus, while I fully respect Zenyatta's undefeated, 11 for 11 career record and the 3 grade 1 races she won last year, her 2009 record simply does not compare with what Rachel has done, at least not yet.

Rachel is 6 for 6 this year, all stakes races, 3 grade 1 races and 2 grade 2 events, has won a Triple Crown race beating the best (healthy) males of her generation, and won the 2 grade 1 races against fillies by over 19 lengths in each. While some dismiss the competition she has faced, any time a filly beats the boys in a Triple Crown race it is a  tremendous accomplishment, and a number of the supposed "claiming" fillies she has defeated were either graded stakes runners already(Just Jenda, Flying Spur, Nan, Flashing) or went on to graded stakes success(Gabby's Golden Gal won the grade 1 Acorn after running 4th in the Oaks, Four Gifts won the grade 3 Eight Belles after running 4th in the Fair Grounds Oaks, and Bon Jovi Girl, 4th in the Fantasy, defeated Black-Eye-Susan winner Payton d'Oro by 8 in the Susan's Girl last month at Delaware Park). Interestingly, two fillies Rachel absolutely demolished, the aforementioned Bon Jovi Girl and Malibu Prayer, the runner-up in the Mother Goose, are two of the favorites for this weekend's $250,000 Delaware Oaks, being listed at 3/1 and 4/1 respectively.

To be sure, Rachel does not have the Horse of the Year sewn away, but her accomplishments to date give her some wiggle room. I believe that with a win in the Haskell, in which she is likely to face a Belmont winner(Summer Bird) and a rising miler star(Munnings), the history she will have made will make it hard for any other horse to have much of a shot at the HoY. Some other horse would have to go out and accomplish some truly remarkable things if she were to win the Haskell, with the Haskell expected to be a tough and demanding race. After the Haskell, I assume Jess Jackson will target the Beldame, and a meeting against older fillies and mares, with another possible race coming between the Haskell and Beldame. A win in the Beldame would seal the HoY for Rachel, at least barring a Zenyatta victory in the Breeders Cup Classic.

Some on this blog are suggesting that Jackson point Rachel for the Travers after the Haskell, believing Rachel needs to beat the boys at 10 furlongs(I guess the 9.5 furlongs of the Preakness wasnt good enough) and at Saratoga. After that, some point to the Jockey Club Gold Cup, feeling that to be Horse of the Year Rachel must beat older males. Finally, some demand that Rachel close the season in the Breeders Cup Classic, so that she meets the best horses from all over the world including, possibly, Zenyatta, while proving herself on synthetics. Well, that would be an absolutely INSANE schedule. Let's just say if she ran in, and won, all of those races, she truly would be the greatest female racehorse of ALL time, bar none, case closed, with Ruffian but a footnote. Folks, we need to tone down the expectations a wee bit. Those demanding Rachel run in those races are demanding the most difficult campaign a 3 year old filly has ever faced. Seriously, go back through the Champions book and look at the past performances of the champion 3 year old fillies since 1900, and try to find one that was forced to run in and win a Triple Crown race, the Travers, the Jockey Club Gold Cup, and the Breeders Cup Classic(or some equivalent) all while defeating her fellow fillies by double-digit margins and setting stakes records. There's a reason why we have races exclusively for 3 year olds, and races exclusively for fillies, and why only 4 fillies have won a Triple Crown race over the past 85 years and why no filly has ever finished better than 3rd in the Breeders Cup Classic.

What do all the following Hall of Fame female racehorses have in common: Azeri, Go For Wand, Ruffian, Mom's Command, Silverbulletday, Paseana, Inside Information, Bayakoa, Princess Rooney, Bold n' Determined, Susan's Girl, Desert Vixen, Davona Dale, Cicada, Dark Mirage, Gallant Bloom, Real Delight, Tempted, Lamb Chop, and Bowl of Flowers? They never beat males in a graded stakes.  Ruffian never even beat older females.  Lady's Secret, as good as she was during her Horse of the Year campaign in 1986, was only 1 for 4 vs. males that year, and she was a 4 year old! Still, it was good enough for the Horse of the Year.  The only 3 year old fillies who consistently ran against and beat not only top 3 year old colts but older males as well were Busher(1945), Twilight Tear(1944), and Beldame(1904).  

Busher ran 2nd to 3 year old males in the Santa Anita Derby and Will Rogers and defeated them in the Hollywood Derby and San Vicente. She ran against older males twice, winning both the Arlington Handicap and the Washington Park, defeating future star Armed by 1.5 lengths in the latter.  Of course, just as some detract from Rachel's Preakness emphasizing how she won by "only" a length, and a diminishing length at that, Busher had opened a 3 length lead over Armed in the stretch before Armed cut it in half before the finish. I guess we should discount Busher's win over Armed too. While we are at it, what was Winning Colors' margin of victory in her 88' Derby after having a 5 length lead in mid-stretch? Or Genuine Risk, how much did she win her Derby by? Rags to Riches in the Belmont?  Anyways, back to Busher, she was 10 for 13 in her 1945 Horse of the Year campaign, going 4 for 6 vs. males and 6 for 7 vs. females, losing to 4 year old filly, Duranza, by almost 4. As a final note, given all the controversy over Rachel's 5 lbs allowance in the Preakness, Busher carried 5 lbs less than Armed in that Washington Park Cap'.

Twilight Tear's big win vs. 3 year old males during her 1944 Horse of the Year campaign came in the Arlington Classic, which she won by 2, with the Derby winner, Pensive, in 3rd (didnt Dray ask about 3 year old fillies that beat a Derby winner? However, note that Twilight Tear carried 12 lbs less than Pensive in the race). After a 4th against 3 year old males in the Maryland Cap', Twilight Tear scored her most important victory, beating two-time reigning Handicap champion and future Hall of Famer, Devil Diver, by 6 in a 3 horse Pimlico Special while carrying 9 lbs less than that runner-up. With Devil Diver best from off the pace, Twilight Tear was able to dictate matters up front, running steady 12s all the way around.  

The queen of 3 year old fillies when it comes to beating males, especially older males, was Beldame. In 1904, Beldame went 12 for 14, going 6 for 8 vs. males, with 4 of those wins coming against older males. In her wins over 3 year old males, Beldame was actually giving the runners-up weight, carrying 126 and 123 lbs, but in her 4 wins over older males, Beldame carried 103, 108, 114, and 112 lbs. Of course, I mention weight only because there were so many after the Preakness who seemed eager to diminish Rachel's accomplishment because she was given a 5 lbs concession, without noting that such a concession is deeply engrained in the history of the sport.

From this review of history, it should be apparent that it is extrememly rare for even the best female racehorses to beat their male counterparts, particularly in grade 1 races, and particularly when the filly is only 3. As a secondary point, it should also be clear that even the very greatest fillies, those reknown for defeating males, received weight concessions. Long story short, I see absolutely no need for Rachel to have to win the Travers, JCGC, AND BC Classic to win Horse of the Year. While the Travers would certainly be the bigger catch, wins by Rachel in the Haskell and Beldame would require some other horse to do something remarkable to keep the HoY from going to Jess Jackson. Rachel could even lose the Haskell and still be in the leadership position, although it would likely require Jackson to think more seriously about the Breeders Cup. And by the way, I believe Rachel should run in the Breeders Cup, Haskell loss or not.  

As it is, as of July 16th, Rachel has had AS GOOD a year as a 3 year old filly has ever had through the same date. This is not to say that I believe Rachel is "better than Ruffian" or "better than Go For Wand", because both of those two other fillies were also champions at 2, similar to how other outstanding 3 year old fillies like Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign, Serena's Song, Susan's Girl, Shuvee, Gallorette, etc had superb campaigns at 4,5 and beyond. The point is, from January through July, Rachel's 2009 is right up with best ever. Of course, to become a true immortal, she must continue to run well.    

Who are the other contenders for Horse of the Year. Well, Zenyatta is an obvious challenger, but with only 2 races so far this season she basically has to be perfect from here-on, and do so while accomplishing something historic. Some might claim that by merely repeating her 2008 schedule and finishing her career undefeated, Zenyatta would accomplish an historic feat and thus be deserving of the HoY. However, retiring undefeated would be a CAREER accomplishment, and while it would guarantee her a place among the greatest females of all time, her resume for 2009 would not be comparable to Rachel's.

Assuming Rachel keeps winning, Zenyatta needs to accomplish something special over her next few races, whether that is winning a grade 1 on dirt (obviously outside of California), or defeating males(in a grade 1) in a race like the Goodwood or Breeders Cup Classic. Personally, I think it unlikely that Sheriffs and Moss will run Zenyatta in the Classic. No knock against Zenyatta, but she has never turned in a performance equivalent to what it takes historically to win the Breeders Cup Classic. Again, this is not a knock because no female horse has ever finished even 2nd in the Classic, and the Breeders Cup era includes some truly great fillies and mares. If  Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign, Princess Rooney, Bayakoa, Go For Wand, Paseana, Inside Information, Serena's Song, Beautiful Pleasure, Silverbulletday, and Ashado were not deemed good enough for the Classic, then giving Zenyatta only a longshot chance in this year's Classic is certainly no disgrace and I would completely understand if Moss and Sheriffs choose to run her back in the Distaff(err Ladies Classic).

However, Zenyatta's schedule wasn't good enough for the HoY last year, and a repeat certainly won't be good enough this year if Rachel keeps winning. That leaves Zenyatta one race between the Chula Vista and Distaff, which last year was the Lady's Secret, but this year should either be the Beldame(possibly against Rachel) or the gr.1 Goodwood vs. males. If Zenyatta were to go East and beat Rachel on dirt in the Beldame, then one would have to give her HoY leadership. On the other hand, a win in the Goodwood would give Zenyatta something Rachel may not get, a win over older males, and when combined with a win in the Distaff would give her a real shot at HoY if Rachel falters in the Haskell and Beldame. Of course, the Goodwood is not going to be a cakewalk, and may feature Well Armed, Einstein, Gio Ponti, Rail Trip, Tres Borrachos, and Colonel John(what's the latest on him?), and the Distaff is almost always competitive.  Zenyatta has a shot at HoY, but she needs Rachel to lose, and might have to go East and defeat her herself.

Many have mentioned Einstein as a HoY contender, and while I admire his heart and durability, his season pales in comparison to Rachel's. Einstein is only 2 for 4 on the season, running 3rd in sub-par renewals of the Donn and Stephen Foster. Some may point to the trouble he had in both, especially the latter, but those were not strong fields he was facing. Additionally, his Big Cap performance, which netted him a win, does not compare favorably with past Big Cap winners; the Big Cap field was weak, and the final quarter was run in a tepid(for synthetic) 24 and 4. Einstein's best race was his nose victory in the Woodford Reserve Turf Classic on Derby day, when he earned a career best 106 Beyer. While I understand how some want to reward Einstein for his longevity and past accomplishments(3 grade 1 wins prior to 2009), his 2009 record leaves him considerably behind Rachel. Although Einstein has won a grade 2 on dirt(last November's Clark) and the Big Cap on synthetic, I maintain that his best surface is turf, and that against world class horses on dirt and synthetic he is about 5 lengths inferior; as a comparison, his Big Cap performance would have left him about 6 lengths behind Ravens Pass in the 08' BC Classic. Fortunately (if one shares my belief), Einstein will make his next start on turf, in the Arlington Million, where he will try to atone for a poor showing last year against a stellar field that could include Presious Passion and Gio Ponti, one of the other leading HoY contenders.

After his stylish score in the Man O' War, I am glad to see that Gio Ponti is receiving some Eclipse consideration. His 3 grade 1 wins tie him for the continental lead, and the distances he has won at, spanning from 1 mile to 1 and 3/8 mile, reflect not only his versatility but maturity as well. Also of note is that Gio Ponti has had success over Santa Anita's Pro-Ride course, winning the 1 mile Sir Beaufort Stakes when it was taken off the turf course in late December. I was at Santa Anita that day, opening day, and Gio Ponti's late kick, rallying from 9th and last, was scintillating. Altough he would run poorly next out in the Strub at 9 furlongs, Gio Ponti is clearly a much better horse now than he was then. In the looming showdown with Einstein in the Arlington Million August 8th, I like Gio Ponti and his explosive brilliance. That is, of course, unless Presious Passion and Elvis Trujillo don't make off like pirates on the front end in a replay of their swash-buckling UN win.  

Mine That Bird certainly deserves to be in the HoY conversation, having won the Derby in such spectacular fashion and then placing in the Preakness and Belmont. His losses st Sunland really hurt him when it comes to HoY, because he is being compared to horses that have been perfect, Rachel in 2009 and Zenyatta her whole career. I think when it comes to the Eclipse for 3 year old male, the Sunland races can be forgiven, because unless Quality Road is able to make some incredible recovery, all of the contenders for that Eclipse are going to have very flawed records. However, when being compared to the very best thoroughbreds, like Rachel and Zenyatta, those Sunland lossess must factor into the equation. With a 1 for 5 seasonal mark, Mine That Bird basically must win the rest of his races to be a serious contender for Horse of the Year; throw in a Breeders Cup Classic, Jockey Club Gold Cup/Super Derby, Travers, and West Virginia Derby with a Kentucky Derby, and without question Bird would be worthy of some votes. However, with his late running style and the accompanying pace and trip problems, it is unlikely Bird will be able to run the table, or even win 3 of those races.  

And thus concludes my longest post, which is really saying something.

It's  bad enough some of the bloggers here can get  internet service from their mother's basement; now they want to disparage Secretariat's competition in the 1973 Derby, wondering what future Grade I winners were in that field. With future three-time HOY Forego only able to run fourth behind Big Red, a LOGICAL observer would dispel that notion. Besides, if Secretariat was able to run a stakes and track record time that day, one that has stood for the last 36 years, those who ran behind him are of no consequence. He would have "beaten" every Derby entrant since the beginning of time. Obviously, some here have a great respect for logical thinking. Because they use it sparingly.

LAZMANNICK, I drive by Mom's Command farm home all the time...there's a huge poster of her out front(and Dancer's Image) I'll put some flowers there for you in remembrance of her...

Jockey Angel Cordero Jr. once told Peter Fuller "I love Mom's Command and I love your daughter Abby, but I'm sick of looking at both

of their rear ends." "bout sums it up, huh? LOL

LADY RUFFIAN

Great points regarding your debate with Draynay. I'm also a big fan of the great Ruffian,was only five when she broke down. I do think BB was comprised in the Belmont,however. But as far as Ruffian goes I totally agree with you. Draynay loves to bash horses,which I don't. His views usually is which way the wind blows on a certain day. If RA began losing or something terrible happened to her,he would jump ship tomorrow cause that's how he rolls!

How about if Mine That Bird changes course and runs in Haskell against RA and wins? Then goes on to take Travers and wins against older horses in the Fall. Derby, Haskell, Travers, JC Gold Cup and/or BC Classic would be pretty good credentials. A lot of what ifs but he has no chance at all if he runs in WV Derby. Race has no national prominence and he needs to beat RA to stake his claim.

Draynay an Afleetalexforever:

With regards to Rachel’s time in the Mother Goose, after comparing it to other times on the Belmont track that day I wouldn’t get too excited.

Belmont was like a cement highway:

• $7,500 claimers running 6-F in 1.09.2

• MSW running 7-F in 1.21.4

• In a $65K minor stakes they actually ran the mile faster than in Rachel’s race….1.33.2

Afleetalexforever wants to compare Rachel’s time with Zen’s in the Vanity.

• Zen ran it in 1.48 not the 1.49 that Alex stated.

• She ran around two turns, much tighter than the one sweeping turn in the Mother Goose

• She ran on her own and only ran as fast as she had too.

• She didn’t have a ridiculously fast set-up and yet her individual time from the 6-F marker home was faster than Rachel’s

• Rachel’s Beyer was only 111, really strong in itself, but not in the 120 range that such a great performance would warrant.  This in itself explains that the track was super fast and the quality of her competition was not that great.

Rachel has good speed, but could you imagine what would have happened if she would have went for the lead and battled through those fractions in the Mother Goose and then have another horse come at her from behind. Do you think she would have won and if so do you still think she would have won by twenty lengths.

And don't diminish what Zenyatta has done. In the Apple Blossom, her only race on dirt, she blew away a champion and actually had the largest margin of victory in her career.

It's just so amazing that several judge Rachel as not be able to get distance.  How would you know?  She's never run longer than 1 3/16 of a mile and when she did that, she was pressed to the lead to get out of harms way.  I recall someone saying the rest of the field let her win.  I think she would have been knocked around had she been in the pack.  She was on the lead and that is not the way she prefers to run and she didn't like the track but she still won although lots of people won't give her credit for that.  I realize that many don't like RA because they hate Jess Jackson and Steve Assmussen.  The horse is innocent and just wants to run.  To really know just what Rachel is made of, we will have to give her a chance to prove it.  I think Jackson should put her in the Travers.  Win or lose, we will then KNOW just what she is made of instead of already deciding she's not that good.

First Big Drama and now Papa Clem.

Papa Clem camp now is considering the Jim Dandy Stakes on Aug. 1 at Saratoga, only a five-hour van ride from Monmouth Park, where the 3-year-old colt is stabled after a third-place finish in last Saturday's $175,000 Long Branch Stakes.

A lot of horses don't want to run against Rachel....  Give credit to Summer Bird for showing up...

Kevin -- you make some good points that I agree with.  The allegations made by IEAH were presented in a very public counter-suit, therefore it possibly (probably) is a ploy to deflect attention away from the original finacial dispute.  And your second point, that IEAH's veterinarians were indeed informed of the injury by trainer Mullins, only makes the situation that much worse, because then BOTH parties knowingly continued actively training the injured colt.  Pox on both their houses.  And Kevin, I enjoyed your two stories, very much, and am so glad that you showed your heart.  May the horse be with you... indeed!

Zenyatta runs in the BC and wins, she's HOY...No brainer.

Would love to see a Rachael A and Zenyatta match-up. Lot's of questions would indeed be answered!

OK...OK....Ruffin was the BEST in HER TIME. Zenyatta and RA are the best for this year. Zen dosen't just sit around, she won more conceutive races that RA has but why fight about it?

Laz,

    It is not my fault horses are pampered today and are more fragile and get fatigued easier, it's just a sad fact. What are you talking about hope of a TC winner in POTN? That was before the Derby, which he ran second in. After that there was no hope for him to be a TC winner, seeing as how you have to win all three races and he'd lost one. The connections just wanted to come back and prove MTB had no business winning the Derby. It was their egos, and that is what caused that horse to loose and ultimitly probably led to his injury.

Kudos to "Steve From St. Louis" for his brilliant comments about SECRETARIAT. Thank you for "calling out" and "schooling" the people who just really don't get it. Criticizing SECRETARIAT is like criticizing The Mona Lisa or the Dixie Chicks...it just doesn't work on any meaningful level.

Draynay:

There's only one problem with your so called analagy.  Rachel hasn't won the Haskell just yet.

Also, I made a point of talking about Mom's Command to show you that she accomplished much more in her career than Rachel has at this point.  I could go on and on about other filies and mares that never get compared to the top ones and their records would dwarf Rachel's.

The one thing that really does puzzle me is if Rachel's Mother Goose was so impressive, why is her Beyer only 111?  Even Commentator ran races with Beyers in the 120 plus range and he's racing today, but of course he's not as good as Rachel.

You're making far too much out of one race that as far as I'm concerned didn't show greatness.  it just showed that Rachel ran a fast race off a set-up on a track that was very fast that day.  How come her Preakness time wasn't overwhelming?

First, does anyone on here other than Jason actually HAVE a vote?

Second, Gun Bow, maybe you should see if you could be a guest blogger on TB Blogger Alliance? That post in a comment section?????

da3Hoss:

Thanks.  I loved Mom's Command.

I also loved Dancer's Image and saw him rae many times.  His trainer was Lou Cavillaires.  To bad he got disqualified from his Derby win.  Tha saddest thing about it was that it wouldn't happen today.

GunBow,

    Wow. I wish i could right like that, then whenever i had an essay to write in school i'd know i'd pass and that i had written enough, lol. Seriously though, very well said. Great post.

Zenyatta needs to come out of CA. She's really not facing any challenges out there AT All. Rachel has the guts to go up against the boys and Triple Crown contenders. Who cares what Zenyatta's record is if she really only faces off with allowance horses? Zenyatta is a stakes runner. Therefore, she should run against stakes horses. Rachel is racing against stakes horses/winners.

Now for the HOY it's between Rachel Alexandra, Einstien, and Gio Ponti.

Some Rachel Stats

New Stakes Records as noted and  times

11/29/2008 Golden Rod Stakes (Gr II): fastest time 1 1/16 miles 1:43.08 stakes record

2/15/2009 Martha Washington 50,000 (Gr III): 1 mile 136:40 fastest time

eight lengths

3/14/2009  Fair Grounds Oaks 400,000 Gr II 1 1/16 miles 1:43.55  1 3/4 lengths

4/5/2009 Fantasy Stakes 250,000 Gr II  1 1/16 miles 1:43.35  8 3/4 lenghts

5/1/2009 Kentucky Oaks 500,000 (Gr I): 1 1/8 miles 1:48.87... last 1/8 mile in 12 seconds flat.  

largest winning margin 20 1/4 lenghts

5/16/2009 Preakness Stakes 1,000,000 (Gr I) 1 3/16 miles 1:55.08   The only horse (male or female) to ever win from the far outside position

6/27/2009 Mother Goose Stakes 300,000 (Gr I): fastest time 1 1/8 miles 1:46.33

largest winning margin 19 1/4 lengths beating Ruffians margin by 6 lengths

I think that if MTB were to be re-routed to the Haskell, that would be fantastic for racing.  First meeting of all three classic winners since 1982.  Why wait for the Travers or something else in the future?  They are all healthy now.  I think the WVA Derby is a good choice for Big Drama, though.

LAZMANNICK:

You're wasting your time trying to broaden the view of people with tunnel-vision....good points though. As I've stated numerous times,you can't compare horses & final splits if they're running on different surfaces/tracks.

I think the most exciting up and comer is Munnings.  I love a Holy Bull horse and look for them in every race to place a bet.  Looking for good things from him.

GunBow thank you for that post.  It is easily the best ever and enjoyed reading every word. Ruffian won 3 stakes races as a 3 year old and Rachel has won 6 like you said when you compare Jan. to July its hard for any filly in history to match what Rachel has done.

Mike Relva please stop saying I am BASHING horses.  I have not bashed a single horse.  Did I call the Derby mud winner a fluke winner...YES !  But I did not invent the word but he is 1 for 5 this year and so far the word fits his win appears to be a fluke.

LAZZMANNICK you posted this above...

• In a $65K minor stakes they actually ran the mile faster than in Rachel’s race….1.33.2

ACTUALLY the older males DID NOT run it faster.  The older males that included Z Fortune ran it slower then Rachel but nice try.

Thanks for pointing out that even OLDER males couldn't run it faster.

I remember feeling very impressed when I read that his connections had decided to scratch I Want Revenge on Derby Day for what was called an unknown minor swelling.  All this new information about him being practically continuously treated for a well known and serious problem since immediately after his last race, well, this puts a whole new spin on everything.  I am no longer impressed and feel very angry. You are sooooo right, HelsBelles, a pox on both their houses.  Training a horse with such an injury!!!  Unforgivable!

LAZMANNICK you don't make any sense. Before you post again take a look at what Rachel has done at 3 and then take a look at what Ruffian did at 3. Compare it side by side to her and any filly you like.  Rachel is 6 for 6 with a Triple Crown win and a win over the Kentucky Derby winner.  Now go through other fillies in history and match that up with what they did at 3.

Next lets discuss her Preakness win.  She won from the outside post, a post no horse in its 134 history had EVER won out of.  She took on the pressure of a record holding sprinter in Big Drama.  Maybe you should look at Big Drama's record over his last 8 races.  Then consider she did all of this on just 2 weeks rest after winning the Oaks by 20.  In the Mother Goose Borel eased her 200 yards before the wire and just missed Secretariat's track record by less then a second and set a new Stakes record.  And if her 146 didn't impress you show me another horse in history that ran a 146 being eased 200 yards before the wire.  I'll wait...

LDP:

What I meant about POTN's Triple Crown campaign is that a trainer like Baffert, if he wins the Derby, is looking at winning the Triple Crown.  This is obviously how someone with his ego feels before the Derby.  I know he didn't win the Derby, but what if he would have...would he still have been a tired horse later in the series?  It goes back to foundation and training methods...they sure aren't what they used to be.

Don't get me wrong...as far as POTN...he was my Derby pick and I liked him in the Preakness as well so I'm certainly not trying to run him down.

Draynay:

Mom's Command's Mother Goose was run in 1.49.3...very slow when compared to Rachel's.

• However, she set all the fractions

• Ran the 6-F in 1.09.2

• Led by four at the top of the stretch and won by 5 1/2.

• She didn't need to do anymore.  Her jockey realized that at the half mile pole.

• And guess what…she raced against ten other horses, not just two.

• She won the Triple Tiara series by 3L, 5 1/2L & 2 1/2L without ever being headed in any of the races.  She did ALL THE WORK!!!

• Her racing career started on July 17/84 and ended on Aug 10/85…a total of 16 stakes races in 13 months.  And you’re going to belittle her just like you want to belittle Ruffian and Secretariat.

In 2008 Zenyatta ran the second fastest Breeder's Cup Distaff since the distance was changed to 9 furlongs. Her time was 1:46.85 on a two-turn synthetic track (5/100ths of a second off the track record). Inside Information ran an incredible race at Belmont in 1995. Her time was 1:46.15 in the slop that day, still the largest winning margin in BC history (Mike Smith was also her jockey.) You can watch this performance on YouTube.  Back to Zenyatta. Anyone who watched the Ladies Classic last year could clearly see that she was on cruise control and she could have gone a lot faster if she had to. She just sailed past Music Note and Cocoa Beach in the stretch. I just wish John Shirreff's had run Zenyatta in the Gold Cup instead of Life Is Sweet.

Draynay:

Mom's Command's Mother Goose was run in 1.49.3...very slow when compared to Rachel's.

• However, she set all the fractions

• Ran the 6-F in 1.09.2

• Led by four at the top of the stretch and won by 5 1/2.

• She didn't need to do anymore.  Her jockey realized that at the half mile pole.

• And guess what…she raced against ten other horses, not just two.

• She won the Triple Tiara series by 3L, 5 1/2L & 2 1/2L without ever being headed in any of the races.  She did ALL THE WORK!!!

• Her racing career started on July 17/84 and ended on Aug 10/85…a total of 16 stakes races in 13 months.  And you’re going to belittle her just like you want to belittle Ruffian and Secretariat.

Miles Times:

My mistake.....at least I can own up when I make one.  I stand corrected.

• Mile time older horses…1.33.69

• Mile time Mother Goose…1.33.60 NOT THE 1.33.2 LIKE YOU STATED.

• Minor stake 9/100ths of a second slower.  Sorry for such a glowing error.

• My point was to compare the mile time in a minor stake to a Grade 1 race on a day when Belmont was exceptionally fast which should tell you what you can do with your fast time theory.

• It’s still interesting to know that Zen finished her race from the 6-F pole faster than Rachel and she only ran for about an 1/8th of a mile.

As far as the Preakness…you really know how to shoot yourself in the foot.

• The Preakness was so tough Rachel actually had to struggle to beat a so-called fluke.

• The Preakness field was so tough that when those that were in it tried the Belmont, they all got beaten by a maiden winner…wow.

As for Ruffian:

She broke down on July 6…when she was racing against the Derby winner.  I guess that makes it look like she was shying away from male competition, and a Derby winner at that.

I guess the real question that needs to be answered is will Rachel and Zen ever meet and if so do we all realize they need to meet, but there would have to be rules they would have to plan out 3 races 1 in New York on Rachel's homefront, then another in Kentucky on neutral settings and then in Cali in the B.C.  The problem is I dont believe in synthetic surface racing, no matter where it is its bogus.  Would Rachel likely win all 3 races yeah most likely, she's just faster and more taleneted.  But I want to see it happen without excuses.

GUN BOW,

Respect is due to you for such a comprehensive analysis of the HOTY challenge.  Although you pretty much covered every angle there is still room for a few surprising twists which could feature Munnings and/or Quality Road, either of which could give us a "Holy Bull" type last half of the season explosion.

ceil, anyone else who wont give full credit to RA's record because the track was like pavement as some have put it.

    If you want to not give RA a ton of credit for her stakes record because of a fast track then honestly that 1.46 of Zenyattas shouldn't be looked so highly upon either. That was an extremely fast track. Records were being equaled or falling left and right, and if they weren't equaled or broken they came within fractions of a second of it. You can't say that one horse can't be fully respected for a time like that, then turn around and worship your horse on it, when pretty much the same things were going on. I give Zenyatta her due for the time, aswell as i do RA. RA however would win in a race between the two, because she has that extemely high cruising speed, then even when tough fractions are set she can still just show an incredible burst of acceleration. Zenyatta would have to stay within at least five lengths of her, and if the pace is quick enough she can't do that or she'll lose that kick.

Lol... just give up LAZMANNICK.  You're out of ammunition.  If this was a prize fight you would lose due to the 3 knockdown rule.

By the way Z Fortune is an older Graded Stakes winning MALE who couldn't run as fast as Rachel.

MONICA V

Great point on Ruffian,I couldn't agree with you more. Some on here like to disrespect horses,which has no place here in my opinion.

You guys are just going in a circle with these comments. How about my boy Quality Road coming back....cant wait he is the best horse around, size and power reminds me of brandon jacobs aka a beast! Dray....RA will have her hands full in the haskell with Summer bird and munnings running should be a great race!

There is absolutely no contest right now.  Rachel Alexandra is compiling one of the all time great seasons.  If she starts losing then it can be a discussion.  Zenyatta, who is #2 in the HOY race, had a much stronger claim last year

Jason, check this article from Nick Canepa from the San Diego Union-Tribune.  He talks about whats happening out west with the racing industry.  I think its a very important subject, giving that this years Breeders Cup could very well be the last out west.

Nick Canepa says:

Del Mar feels pain of other tracks

2:00 a.m. July 17, 2009

DEL MAR – This is not what Bing Crosby had in mind when he donned his skimmer and opened the joint in 1937, greeting everyone from his Hollywood pals to the Great Depression's hoi polloi, who came scrambling, hoping to make a quick parimutuel buck. Der Bingle no doubt thought the seaside racetrack he helped create forever would stand where the turf meets the surf and the ATMs.

But Bing didn't count on thoroughbred racing fighting for the wire in the following millennium, or California's governor thinking of selling the property because of an economic sinkhole forming precisely at the wrong time for the industry. Horse racing, the Sport of Kings, is in trouble.

You would think prosperous, superbly run Del Mar, which begins its 70th season Wednesday, is above it all. It isn't. The track is an island, fashionably done up and making money, but it's surrounded by stormy seas threatening to capsize historic Southern California umbilical vessels that provide Del Mar's main nutrients: thoroughbreds.

“It's certainly survivable,” says Joe Harper, Del Mar's boss since 1977. “Is this of our own doing? Is it the economy? Are we smart enough to do it without relying on slot machines to keep us open? Hopefully we can figure it out.”

Here's the nut. Hollywood Park appears ready to die. The Inglewood City Council has approved a $2 billion development on the property that would kill racing. In March, Magna Entertainment, parent company of Arcadia's Santa Anita and Maryland's Pimlico, filed for bankruptcy.

Hollywood and Santa Anita, with many racing dates, feed horses to Del Mar, whose summer meeting runs seven weeks. The loss of both basically would shut off Del Mar's supply lines, making it almost impossible for this wonderful place to stay open.

Because of off-track wagering and the state of the economy, Hollywood and Santa Anita have suffered at the gate. Del Mar, because of the time and place of its meeting and the ingenuity to provide other entertainment, such as concerts – thus not having to resort to the slot machine trade – continues to thrive.

Racetracks sit on enormous pieces of real estate. Given the state of the game, you don't have to be a math genius to figure out that developing the land could be more profitable than profits semi-empty tracks make on off-track wagering.

“Look at the difference between parimutuel tax and development taxes,” Harper says. “It's not close.”

But it's difficult to survive without any blood, and the donors come from Hollywood and Santa Anita.

“We need those other Southern California tracks,” Harper says. “At least one, if not two. Otherwise, it would be extremely difficult.”

He adds with a sigh: “We're a success; we do three times the business of Hollywood and Santa Anita. But I wish some of the 40,000 people who come out on opening day would visit those tracks.”

Harper thinks – hopes – Hollywood racing will last at least a few more years now that California development has slowed. He believes Santa Anita will stand because the people who live in the area like the track and would prefer it to further saturation of an overly developed area.

“Hollywood is making money – it's always made money,” he says. “It's just that it's not making enough. So, until this development plan is through, and they're still making money, why not keep it open and cut their losses?”

Thing is, if Hollywood goes and Santa Anita remains, Del Mar will have to expand. It certainly wouldn't be able to pick up all the dropped Hollywood dates, but it would have to take some.

“If Hollywood goes away, we're obviously going to have to pick up days,” Harper says. “We could push Opening Day up a week. It's not an unsolvable solution to pick up days here. I can see two to three more weeks in the summer, and maybe a fall meeting – like Keeneland, a couple of weeks.

“We're a track without slot machines that makes money, but we're the product of our environment. Part of that success formula is that we're in the Southern California thoroughbred circuit that has been fairly healthy. We're pretty much the leader of the pack. This is a cash cow for the state. Not one cent of taxpayer money is tied up here.”

So go ahead and sell the place, right? Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's lame (and unoriginal) idea of selling the property isn't going to be easy, because developing the racetrack and fairgrounds property, with its wetlands, will be a million root canals in one mouth at the same time.

“The sale? Who knows?” Harper says. “It would be a very difficult thing to do. When I got here, I thought it would be nice to make the infield usable. I wanted to build a tunnel out there. The Coastal Commission denied us. It took seven years. For a tunnel! How hard would it be for a development?”

Now you know why the Chargers haven't given much thought to Del Mar as a stadium site.

Oh, to be here in 1937. There may have been a depression, but at least people had spines and vision.

Bing was born at the right time.

Great post Gun Bow! You seem to be the most objective fan here.  

Draynay:

I'm not the one who should give up.  The older Z-Fortune is totally over-rated and, in fact, wasn't even a factor in the MINOR stakes.

And as far as ammunition, you don't have any because other than a minor rebuttal you haven't come back with anything that makes sense.

• Your argument about the Preakness contradicts everything you said about the competition that was in it.

• You don’t understand much about times in a race because if you did you wouldn’t go on about the time in the Mother Goose, but conveniently neglect to say anything about the time in this year’s Preakness.

• If times are so important then why do claimers set track records that more accomplished stakes horse can’t beat?

• You still don’t make any sense when you belittle Secretariat’s three year old year.  If you look at the horse he raced against and defeated and then look at the competition they in-turn raced against you would see that you’re not making any sense.

As for Rachel, believe it or ot I think that she’s fantastic.  However, what really gets me going is when someone tries to diminish or belittle history or in this case, what great horses have accomplished in the past.  If you call yourself a horse racing fan you wouldn’t do that.

DAVE

I've got news for you,Zenyatta is a "superhorse" and MTB is very good. Obviously your intent for blogging is to ignore and bash horses that race their heart out. Guess what,Zenyatta's and MTB connections could care less about your generic opinion!

EmilioP---Thank you for sharing that informative and insightful local (California) article on the state of affairs facing Del Mar. I hope at least two, if not all three, of the tracks mentioned are able to survive!

Talk is cheap.RA is very good,but notice how she dominates the mediocre 3yo fillies out there,and when facing the 2nd thru 4th tier of 3yo colts she just held-on for the win with a so-so final time?...I'm just saying. Also,do people actually think she'll be running in the Preakness/Haskell if the pre-Derby Top 3yo colts like IWR,QR,The 'Mousse and to some degree Old Fashioned,had ran in the TC and asserted themselves?...I for one don't think so. The stars have aligned and she's taking advantage of what's left of the 3yo colt division. And that's the reason there's all this talk about HOTY,otherwise we'd all be saying she'a a very good filly who's dominating her filly counterparts,like BB did last year. We'll see what happens in the Haskell,but this I know. It won't be a cakewalk for her. She's very good,not great...yet.

LDP:

Track & World Records are expected to be broken or matched in the BC when the Best of the Best show-up to throw-down.

I would love to see Rachel win the Haskell, Travers, and Beldame and complete perhaps the greatest 3 year old campaign ever.

Dray...Once upon a time a horse started his 3 y/o campaign against older horses and won(twice, an allowance and a stakes in Feb), won the Triple Crown with a stakes race won in between the Preakness and Belmont (the Jersey Stakes at 1 1/4 miles) and ended his season with 19 wins and 1 second out of 20 starts (17 stakes races) at 9 different tracks from coast to coast, from 6 furlongs to 2 miles. I would consider that to be the best 3 y/o campaign ever(even better than Secretariat) and a hard one to match. I am curious if you know who DID run that campaign?

Carlos,

    Then why arent that many equaled broken or within a fraction of a second away from being broke each year? Never have there been so many records eqaualed or broken on the same day.

Steve from St. Louis, I had tears rolling down my face over the "some of the bloggers here are getting internet service from their mother's basement" comment. Absolutely a riot.

Mike S. the Dixie Chicks are trolls. Jason, I couldn't agree more. They give country music a bad name (or a worse name, depending upon your point of view).

Really interesting and fiesty dialogue here. I think Rachel's next race is going to tell the story. If she loses, it's wide open. If she doesn't, I think she's maintaining her roll and it's over. Zenyatta would have to race in the BCC AND win at that point to be a serious contender for HOTY. I don't even think she will be entered, let alone win. Too bad, because I love Zneyatta.

I love MTB, if he could sweep his next 2-3 races that would be fantastic. But I don't think that's going to happen. If it happened I would be ecstatic. Then he would have a shot at it.

I think Rachel's only real competition for HOTY is Einstein. Einstein being an older horse has part of my heart as well. Gotta love him.

Rachel holds all the cards right now. The second half of this season will have to change alot in several different ways for Rachel to lose the edge she has for HOTY.

LDP

Ruffian won the coaching club american oaks at belmont park it was run at 1.5 miles until 2004 when Ashado won it at 1.25. RA was tiring in the preakness and to me that shows a sign of a tired horse. i understand she came in 2 weeks after her romp but for some reason jackson backed out of the belmont. i mean the guy hasn't even earned a grade 1 winner he has to buy the horse privately. no horse he bought at a sale or bred has won a grade 1 race for him.

www.nyra.com/.../CCAO.shtml

this is a link to the past winners of the CCAO. oh in 1991 they went from 1.5 to 1.25 but then in 1998 they went to  1.5 . then in 2004 they went back to 1.25.

I will go over this one more time if Jason allows.  It seems like you want to focus on Rachel's time in the Preakness and I thought I explained that.  Her time was faster than Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, War Emblem, Point Given, Red Bullet, and Charismatic.  She won from the FAR OUTSIDE post and it had never been done in HISTORY. Still she was able to go wire to wire without ever seeing another horse after the 7 furlong pole. And yes LAZMMANICK anytime a horse comes within less than a second of beating a record held for 35 years by Secretariat and does it while being eased 200 yards before the wire... the time matters !  The fact is her Mother Goose time was 2 or 3 seconds faster than most of the winners of the race over the last 40 years. Now regarding Secretariat, his Triple Crown performance was amazing but his Wood Memorial before the series was pretty bad and he finished 3rd. After the Belmont and Arlington Invitational Secretariat lost again to Onion in the Whitney Stakes. Some weeks later Secretariat lost again this time getting crushed by Prove Out in the Woodward Stakes.  Because of this loss Secretariat raced on turf his next time out and did very well setting a track record.

Secretariat peaked at the right time but you have to look at his ENTIRE 3 year old campaign.  So the question remains if Rachel wins her next 3 races and wins the Haskell, Travers and Beldame.  Would her 9 for 9 perfect year be better than Secretariats Triple Crown year with 3 losses.  In my opinion Rachel's would be better.

Rachael will lose against some of these colts. Don't put so much into her, I feel JJ is making a mistake and eventually she will lose to one of these colts that we aren't expecting to win and that will be the one that finally kicks in and wins. hasn't horseracing proved that already!!! LOOK FOR IT TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR, MAYBE IN THE HASKELL.It is coming!!!!  These colts can prove to be amazing and her luck will soon run out!!!

Jason, agreed it's all awful, but with just one exception-Patsy Cline. Her "crossover" music was wonderful. She had one of the best voices of the 20th century.

I feel a little bashful, but I do want to thank those who have made positive remarks about my last post. I wish I could say writing it was a breeze, but the truth is I probably spent about 5 hours, first reading all the comments beforehand and then composing it. Once again, this blog has messed up my sleep schedule. Sometimes the discussion is so engaging there's nothing I can do to pry myself away from my computer. It's just so great to be able to communicate with so many people so well versed and passionate about this sport.

barb... I know all about Citation.  What a great horse. Don't forget Count Fleet.  My Grandfather took me to see him in 1969 when he took me to my first Kentucky Derby.  I don't remember much but I had a picture up until my last divorce.

Jason, back away from the keyboard. ;)

Nothing wrong with some good ol' George Strait.

How would RACHEL ALEXANDRA be doing "against the boys" if THE PAMPLEMOUSSE, I WANT REVENGE, OLD FASHIONED, MIDSHIPMAN, VINEYARD HAVEN and QUALITY ROAD were around? I guess we'll never know. But I sure do wonder. It's easier to look good when the whole division is depleted.

Wow...I didn't realize that hatred and ignorance of the Dixie Chicks is still alive. Unreal. Even Toby Keith (the troublemaker) said (just after they swept the Grammys), "They made a great record. Everyone needs to forgive and forget and just move on already." It's amazing that some people are still stuck on the idea that we're not allowed to criticize our government or the president and that, if we do, we need to be "punished." The Dixie Chicks are trolls, huh? Don't you just wish you were that gorgeous? Those women are hot stuff, good looking, intelligent, great musicians, the best act in country music, talented, patriotic and they just plain ROCK in every way imaginable. Oh yeah...Natalie has an incredibly great singing voice too! And they didn't do anything wrong, and they don't deserve the undying hatred from the peanut gallery.

Thomas,

    For one i never said anything about Ruffian running 1.5 miles, so i have no idea why you felt the need to educate me on that when i know full well what she did and didn't do. Two if RA was tiring so badly and MTB was coming so quickly he sould've passed her within only a few strides after the finish. The fact that this did not happens tells me two things could've happened. Either MTB's kick ran out and he was out of gas, or that RA had more and dug back in, implying that she was not totally out of gas. I'm incline to believe the latter, because even in the Belmont when MTB ran out of gas he still ran evenly enough to get third. If the first senario of the Preakness was true then he would've had to completly spit the bit like a sprinter going 1 1/4. Seeing as how he still kept up in the Belmont i don't think that happened. Three JJ could've backed out for many reasons. I think he did it to prepare RA. RA was used to facing the competition of the filly group, and only need to stay fit enough to beat them. In the Preakness she won on talent and guts, because though they aren't the best horses of the year, they were leaps and bounds ahead of the fillies. I think JJ took her aside to SA train her the way she needed to be in order to face the colt, in the Haskel or Travers. The Haskel IMO is merely a test to see if she can now win like or simalar to the way she dominated the fillies.

Carlos,

    By the way i meant to say why arent records broken each year at the BC. Because as you said with such great horses around records should be expected.

Hey Barb:

Great question.  I know who the horse is, but I won't say.  I will say that when he won the Derby he defeated a horse that would eventually be Horse Of The Year, in a different year.

LDP:

The reason for last years record-breaking performances @ Santa Anita was because the track surface had only been there 2 years,so with all that talent lined-up,you'd expect new track records to be set,right?..and I'm sure if we checked the stats,we'd find that track records have been matched or broken when the BC are held on fast main tracks back east.But,not so much when the surface is sloppy/soupy like it always seems to be. That's one of the reasons 2 consecutive runnings of the BC are being held @ SA...sunny/perfect weather.

LOL, Jason WILL allow, no doubt about that.

I have a colt and a filly that go back to Count Fleet. They weren't going to the auction block, now they are.

Still say Gun Bow, anyone who spends THAT much time writing something should be writing a blog, not posting it in comments. Check in with the Alliance, see if they'll let you do a guest blog.

Dray:

In my final argument about time if Jason will allow this to go through....of the 20 Preaknesses run before this year's running, something like 11 of them were faster than Rachel's, so what are you trying to say?

Secretariat's dismal performance in the Wood was fully explained by another Bloodhorse columnist.

And as far as "time matters", it doesn't.  I thought the saying was "size matters".

Let’s get a true understanding of whom Rachel faced in the Preakness.  If you will recall the Derby winner, 2nd place finisher, 3 place finisher and 4th place finishers all ran against Rachel that day.  She also defeated General Quarters, Friesan Fire, and a sprint specialist in Big Drama.   You can question what would the race have been like with those other pace setters in the mix but what you have to remember is she was pushed by basically the fastest of pace setters she would have faced.  The Mousse, O.F. Q.R. and any others you want to talk about would have done the same faltering that Big Drama did after trying to go head to head with her for 8 panels.  Now to call the winners of the Santa Anita Derby, the Arkansas Derby, the Louisiana Derby, the Illinois Derby, and the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes 2nd to 4th tier, well that is disgraceful to the history of all of these races and to the connections of their great horses.  I am sure Bob Baffert would argue you to no end about the quality of his horse.   To be honest I find it funny that people continue to open their mouths and totally insert their foot so deep.  You have to run against who is bold enough to enter the race.  Horses get hurt and sometimes a crop is depleted, we all realize that, but to run these horse down that ran in the Derby and Preakness, THAT IS CLASSLESS.  Expected at time by people who come onto blogs like this and give their opinions like “Rachel A ran against 2nd to 4th tier competition” but the number of grade 1 wins between this group totally shows you have no idea what you are talking about and are spitting out nothing but nonsense.

Carlos,

    That was my point, the reason so many records were established were because of the track. I though they had just installed it that year, since that the when it was open, two weeks before the Cup that was the first time Pro ride had ever been run over at SA. Anyways, my point was that those horses were running lights out because of the surface, yet you'll give Zenyatta credit for her time over a surface running like a speedway, but not RA. That hypocritical, if your going to say Zen ran a fast race and give her full credit for that race, when the Distaff was held over a track that was playing like lightning, then you have to give credit to RA's time.

LAZMANNICK does Secretariat have an excuse for Onion looking him in the eye in deep stretch and pulling away or Prove Out beating him by 4 ? Does he have 3 good excuses ? Funny thing is Big Brown is not allowed to have 1 but Secretariat gets 3 ? You say time doesn't matter but it does when a 3 year old filly runs a 146.  It is extremely rare and has only happend a few times in HISTORY.  Its even more impressive when done being geared down 200 yards before the wire and you can look at all the old tapes you want you will never see a horse run a 146 being eased to the wire.  LAZMANNICK I hope you understand what my point is and has always been history is often over glorified.  Ruffian was a very good horse but only won 3 Stakes races at 3 and never beat males.  Rachel has won twice as many Stakes races this year, beat males and ran faster than Ruffian EVER did in the Mother Goose.  How many more records of Ruffians does Rachel have to top before we are allowed to say Rachel is the best 3 year old filly ever.  Rachel has already topped what any 3 year old filly has ever done before her and done it perfectly going 6 for 6. Many say I am somehow bashing horses of the past, no I am being honest with the accomplishments and comparing the two side by side.  The problem is you can't change history but instead many over hype it and pretend nothing in the present can be as good or better.

It's kind of convenient, isn't it, that when Draynay was listing Secretariat's wins and losses in his three year old year, he left out the inaugural Marlboro Cup, where the big red horse set a world record for a mile an an eighth while defeating the eventual 1973 champion older horse, the 1972 champion three year old, the 1972 champion turf horse (who had also won the Santa Anita Handicap in 1973, so he could run on dirt, too), and the 1973 Canadian Horse of the Year.  He also beat the winners of the 1973 Whitney and 1973 Travers.  Oh, wait, it's not possible, is it, that he left that race out because it didn't support his argument?

Gun Bow, your long post was brilliant!  I loved it.  

Barb, Citation had an absolutely brilliant three year old season.  Thanks for making me look it up.  I wish I'd been around back then to see it.  Wow.

Rachel Alexandra has done some brilliant things this year, and I'm looking forward to her doing more.  But at this point, for me, it's too soon to call her "great".  Many horses over the years have had streaks of really good races, but it's what a horse does over a long time, not just a few months, that impresses me.  I hope she continues to run well and to win - but she's got to actually run the races and win them before I count those victories in her win column, and use them to judge her career.

Why would anyone insinuate RA's Preakness win was not fast race? Allow me to point again out her Beyer rating for that race (108) was the 4th best awarded for any distance over a mile this year (and RA has THREE races in the top 4 ratings, and was basically pulled up in her other 3 starts).

BEST BEYERS 2009 (over 1 mile):

HORSE DATE DIST    BEYER

I WantRevenge 7Mar  1 1/16M 113

Quality Road  28 Mar 1 1/8M 111

Rachel Alex.  27 Jun 1 1/8M 111

Rail Trip   11 Jul  1 1/4M 111

Solar Flare 24 May 1 1/16M 111

Jonesboro   27 Jun  1 1/8M 109

Dunkirk     28 Mar  1 1/8M 108

Rachel Alex 01 May 1 1/8M  108

Rachel Alex 16 May 1 3/16M  108

Uh Mike S., just take my word for it, I was that gorgeous when I was their age. I am much older now and not so much, but I have been there and done that. As for the comments about the President, they were in poor taste and unwise (political commentary is fine but personal attacks are not i.e "I disagree with his policies, I think they will bankrupt the country," versus, "He is a horse's rear end"). Yes, it's a free country and they can say whatever they want, anyone can. But like everyone else, they have to accept the consequences when they go public with their comments, especially when they are part of the entertainment industry. It was not a smart move on their part, when 3/4 of their PAYING audience lives in the south. Southerners don't like it when you trash a conservative President. The Dixie Chicks literally had to cancel performaces because of poor ticket sales. I have heard their music. If you like country music (I don't) I am sure it's fine. But I suspect Beethoven, Mozart, Verdi, Puccini, Frank Sinatra, Rosemary Clooney, Ella Fitzgerald, and Patsy Cline (that's the short list)can all rest easy. People will be listening to their music long after the Chicks are history. So lets go to our respective corners and call this particular fight a draw.  

I think Rachel is going to have her hands full if she races in the Haskell. If she wins that, I am a believer. Better than Secretariat? Not impossible, but sure not likely. When she wins by 20 lengths we'll talk.

Gunbow, your post was brilliant. I think everyone appreciates the work you put into it. Especially those of us who learn so much from this blog, like me.

Cleone I am not leaving any facts out on Secretariat.  He was a great horse but try to remember that after the Belmont he never won another G1 race on dirt again!  His last 3 races on dirt he lost 2 of them and after getting beat badly in the Woodward.  They tried him out on turf to change things up since he was not performing well on dirt.  As we all know his last two wins came on turf and was retired having never won on dirt again after getting beat by Prove Out.

dray

did you even know that secretariat ran in the whitney 4 days after wining a race at arlington?

LDP

my fault i misread your post, I didn't mean to disrespect you. the earlier post you wrote about the travers the last 2-3 years there was a 3 week break in between the haskell and travers.i didn't realize that this there was 4 weeks in between.

afleetalexforever... what did I tell you about posting facts !  Rachels resume is as better than any other filly one can name and many say they still need to see more. Geez.

I like both gals;Although, I am more partial to Zen because I've watched her longer but I am going to have a West Coast gal and an East Coast gal, I hope they never pair up because I enjoy having one that is special on synthetics and one that is special on dirt. Both are heros in their own special way.

Dray...You were a lucky kid to have seen Cy (and many of the others you have mentioned) and I am relieved that you had no problem knowing who I meant ,lol. MY mom told me that kids weren't allowed to go to the horse track and she was my mom so I believed her (she did take me to the dog races once in a while). And I'm sorry your ex was so mean. On the subject of Secretariat's losses...he doesn't need any excuses. Perfect records are SO rare, almost every horse loses at some point. And even perfect horses aren't rewarded just for their perfection (Personal Ensign was perfect, beat males in a G1, beat the DERBY winner twice and still didn't get HOY). In judging "greatness" I take the horses entire career into account(including the competition and times), and I can't judge that until their career is over. Plus you don't seem to hold Rachel's losses against her and you don't appear impressed by Zenyatta's (or Peppers Pride's) perfection, so what is the point of your argument?

Cleone...I'm very happy to have brought Citation to your attention. He was Amazing. I wish I had been alive to see him too. And so many others, icluding many I was alive for but too young to know (hello 1970s). That's one of the great things about racing, the past is still alive and us fans seem to have no problem loving horses from 100 years ago as much as we love the ones on the track today.

Laz...Thanks. Calumet Farm was quite a force back in those days!

I have a general comment. Why aren't fillies from the United States as dominant as their European counterparts? I say this because someone's well researched posting (sorry can't remember who!) said that Lady's Secret ran and lost against the boys 3 of four times. Azeri was quite unsuccessful against boys even though we know that she is great as well. So my question: why do so many European mares not just defeat, but blow the doors off their male competitors? You guys may disagree but Miesque, Zarkava, Urban Sea, Goldikova, Pebbles kicked but and made it look easy. Granted, Rachel kicked but in the Preakness but her win was less dominant than any of these mares.

That said, I love Rachel and believe that she is something special. Zenyatta is special as well, and there is no need to denigrate one horse to build-up another.

Oh Draynay.

You wrote, "Rachel has already topped what any 3 year old filly has ever done before her and done it perfectly going 6 for 6."

Sigh.

I'll reference, as have others, the incomparable Beldame, whose 1904 3 year old season was a thing of beauty. It wasn't perfect, as she lost 2  of her 14 races (yes, that would be 14), but it still is the best season run by a 3 year old filly. Here we go.

1. Opened season in April with win in the Carter Handicap against OLDER males. Won by 2 under a tight hold.

2. Ran third in Metropolitan Mile to champion Irish Lad (a 4YO horse) and sprinter Toboggan.

3. Won five straight against fillies. In her first against fillies, the Ladies Handicap, she bolted and ran back to the barn. Returned to the starting line, she led wire-to-wire and won eased. She won the Gazelle on a sloppy track by 10 in what was described as a canter. She won the Mermaid Stakes carrying 126 lbs, 15 more than the next highest impost.

At this point she is a winner of 6 of her 7.

Race No. 8: In the Test, which was for both sexes, she pushed older colt Hermis (winner of that year's Suburban) to a track record. He beat her by 1 giving her weight. She was ahead of the third place horse by 5.

She doesn't lose again during the season.

9. She wins the Alabama by 6. It's her last race against fillies.

10. Wins the 1 3/4 miles Saratoga Cup, beating Africander, who had won the 1903 Belmont, Suburban and Saratoga Cup, as well as The Picket, winner of the 1903 American Derby and 1905 Brooklyn Handicap. She went to the lead and won by 4.

11. 10 days later wins the Dolphin Stakes against 3YO colts carrying 126 lbs and giving weight to all.

12. 8 days later wins the September Stakes, beating Ort Wells, who would be regarded as that year's 3YO champion colt.

13. Wins the 1 1/4 mile First Special, beating Caughnawaga.

14. 5 days later wins the 1 1/2 mile Second Special, beating that year's Travers winner Broomstick by 5 while being eased.

To sum up, she won 12 of 14, raced males (including older horses) 8 times and won 6. She beat older males from distances of 6f to 1 1/2 miles.

Turf writer Joe Hirsch once wrote, "August Belmont II bred two of the greatest horses ever to race in American. One was Man o'War. The other was Beldame."

Draynay-I agree that Rachel Alexandra is on her way to creating one of the greatest three year old seasons in history (already has in my opinion).  However I think Citation should always be honored with that accolade.  Winning 19 of 20 races is INCREDIBLE and doing it through a winning Triple Crown campaign and beating older horses before and after the Triple Crown is untouchable.  I can't beleive you got to see Count Fleet, that's so neat.  I always look for your posts on these Blog's but didn't realize you'd been involved in racing for so long.  That's awesome!

 At this point in Rachel Alexandra's career it's just niave not to already be calling her Great.  I can't believe some people are still saying that.   Ruffian and Go For Wand were in my mind (up until Rachel) the greatest fillies in history.  But I think honestly that the tragic breakdowns that led to these amazing fillies deaths tend to almost glorify what they've done.  

Draynay said: "...does Secretariat have an excuse for Onion looking him in the eye in deep stretch and pulling away..."

Yes, in fact, he does.  The very next day, the horse had a fever and a virus.  You think maybe - just maybe - he was actually starting to get sick twelve or thirteen hours earlier, when he ran the race?  Of course, this has been explained to you before, and you dismiss it.  And still Secretariat finished second, losing by only a length.  

"... or Prove Out beating him by 4?"

The Woodward is the only race he DOESN'T have a really good excuse for.  Except that he'd missed a lot of training during August, because he was sick, then had to come back and run a mile and an eighth on September 15th.  So he was probably a short horse in the Woodward on September 29th.  Remember he wasn't even supposed to run in that race, he was being pointed to the Man 'o War a week later, on October 8th.  But when the track came up muddy for the Woodward, Secretariat got the nod instead of Riva Ridge, who hated mud.

"Funny thing is Big Brown is not allowed to have 1 but Secretariat gets 3 ?"  

I allow Big Brown his excuse.  The one I give him is different than the one you choose - I think he missed too many days of training because of his quarter crack, and just didn't have enough that day to get a mile and a half.  Hey, it happens.  

My main issue with Big Brown is that he only ran eight races in his whole life, and he appeared to be past his prime, already, when he ran in the Haskell and the Monmouth Stakes.  He really struggled to win those races.  I respect him as a very good race horse, but he didn't do enough for me to call him "great".  

I know you feel differently, and that's fine.  If we all felt the same way about every horse, what fun would it be?  

Okay Draynay:

You get my vote.

• Rachel is the greatest three year-old filly EVER.

• Seeing that Secretariat was such a DUD maybe Rachel is the best three year-old EVER.

And yes AFLETALEXFOREVER:

• This year’s Kentucky Derby had one of the strongest fields EVER.

• And of course, the Preakness was probably one of the strongest in many, many years.

• And yes, if Ruffian raced today, she would probably be a Grade 3 stakes horse at best.

And with regards to history and past accomplishments…who cares.  I guess they don’t matter.

Oh, and did I mention that I’m having a hard time speaking because my foot is stuck in my mouth.

Thanks both of you for clearing it up for me.

I think that is zen does what she did last year, and wins the classic she will get A LOT of votes. Though Rachel can still get it IF Jess sends her to the right places.

An argument can be made for any number of horses to be HOTY. If MTB wins the Travers and the BCC he will be HOTY. Exit music is already playing for everybody else to include RA. MTB could run 35 or 40 more times and we need the public to hook on to a horse they can root for. His story is very compelling and his connections are more like real people. RA is already more flexible than Ruffian but it depends on which Ruffian we are talking about. The real Ruffian, the mythical Ruffian or the combination of both Ruffian. The one time the real Ruffian had pressure put on her it didn.t work out. RA wouldn't stand a chance against the other two.

Intereting mythical races from the Century Dream Series.  Each race consists of 14 starters and how they would finish in a mythical race:

Classic:

FIN Marg. HORSE MARG

1 Hd SECRETARIAT

2 1 MAN O'WAR

3 3/4 COUNT FLEET

4 No SPECTACULAR BID

5 Nk CITATION

6 Nk DR. FAGER

7 Nk FOREGO

8 1 SEATTLE SLEW

9 1/2 AFFIRMED

10 Hd KELSO

11 3/4 SWAPS

12 1/2 NATIVE DANCER

13 1/2 DAMASCUS

14 BUCKPASSER

Distaff:

FIN Marg HORSE

1 1/2 RUFFIAN

2 3/4 GALLORETTE

3 1/2 REGRET

4 No TWILIGHT TEAR

5 1 PERSONAL ENSIGN

6 Hd DESERT VIXEN

7 3/4 SUSAN'S GIRL

8 3/4 BUSHER

9 1/2 BAYAKOA

10 1 LADY'S SECRET 11 nk GENUINE RISK 12 nk PRINCESS ROONEY 13 1 GO FOR WAND 14 INSIDE INFORMATION -----

I absolutely adore Zenyatta, Rachel, Gio Ponti and Einstein but what if another horse puts up a totally awesome display in the BC Classic?  A horse who is a winner of many Group 1 races already?  It could happen you know.  

This is all pure speculation.  Fun but speculation nonetheless!  But I am writing from England and hope and believe our Irish Champ will romp home in the B C Classic.  He is called SEA THE STARS!  He has won our 2000 Guineas, Epsom Derby and Eclipse Stakes.  If they all stay sound and he shows up it will be some race but Sea The Stars is an even better horse than the great Raven's Pass so don't count your chickens yet!!!!!!!!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

This is the same comments from last year. Different horse but same exact disrespect from Draynay for what everyone who is a real fan, or is involved in racing say are the greats of racing. He presents an opinion as though he wss some young guy, he's not, he's as old as some of you calling youselves old. Personally, I think his hair plugs have taken root in his brain.

On the Gun Bow post? I think he SHOULD Blog on the TB Alliance. Some good posts get lost on the comments because people don't read them. But I almost suspect she is Shamfan, very similar posts last year.

Also Jason? You told Wanda last year that DN didn't stiff you on his bet with you, you collected. That's a very interesting comment.....

Thomas,

    I never thought you disrespected, me though right then i was just real irratable, so sorry. When i read your post to me i didn't know why you were telling me about ruffian when i never have talked down about her, and i never would. She is a great filly. I got to see some actual footaged of the match and started crying when i saw that breakdown. I saw some videos of her other races and think she is the top filly right now. I think RA has the potential to be better if she keeps up her recent kick butt form though. By the way i thought the Travers was 1 month away last year too. I can't remember, because each year, i have to go away to a soccer tounament of my sisters and always end up missing it, except last years. Her games alway make up for missing the race though.

Also, thinking I'm agreeing with Frank Stronach for the first time ever. He said the Eclipse awards should be based on a points system, take the popularity contest out of it.

OOOHH Paula, fatal mistake. You no longer will be one of the 3 women who understands Draynay. Obviously you haven't seen his political viewpoints and what HE calls politicos- PUBLICALLY.

I doubt anything like this gets through though, I'll ask Ron.

What do you mean RUFFIAN "only won three stakes at three"? She won an allowance, then she won the Comely, Acorn, Mother Goose and Coaching Club American Oaks. That's four stakes wins at three. She cannot win races in which she did not participate. RUFFIAN was dominant at the age of 2 as well, winning by 12 and 15 lengths in two of her 5 starts.

Let's put this "RACHEL ALEXANDRA ran a faster Mother Goose" frivolity to rest. RACHEL ALEXANDRA ran her Mother Goose on an incredibly fast track at Belmont and around one turn. RUFFIAN ran her Mother Goose at Aqueduct, which means it was around two turns, and her time of 1:47-4/5 is very fast for that track. So you're definitely not making a literal comparison here, although you're pretending you are. Actually, I haven't seen too many races that were faster and I've been following the races since 1972.

Dray, I'm pretty sure that if they'd been grading races back then, the Marlboro Cup would have be G1.

We would all respect your arguments more if you didn't so blatantly disregard anything you don't like!  You don't like that Secretariat beat a field full of CHAMPIONS in world record time, so you conveniently "forget" that race any time you discuss his record.

What's sad is, I end up rooting against horses I like (like Rachel) because I want to see you with egg on your face.  I need to work harder at getting over that.  It'd be nice if you'd work harder on not making me want to dislike good horses.

1973 Whitney Facts:

• Onion beat Secretariat fair and square…no one is arguing about that, but there were still circumstances:

• Onion the lone speed in a five horse field

• Onion set a 6 1/2F track record 11 days previous so he was sharp

• Onion beat Secretariat by 1-length

• Both carrying equal weights – 119 lbs.

• Secretariat rebounded and beat Onion VERY HANDILY in both horse’s next start, the Marlboro Cup

1973 Woodward Stakes:

No excuses…both horses had the lead early in the race and then Prove Out regained it and went on to an easy score.

Secretariat’s races after the Belmont:

• June 30 AP Invitational – raced against and defeated horses that he competed against and beat in the Triple Crown races (they were all G-1 horses, why not rate this a G-1)

• Aug 4    Sar Whitney  G2 – today this is a G1 and it should have been then.

• Sept 15 Bel Marlboro Cup – listed as an invitational.  To not call this a G1 is a joke.

• Sept 29 Bel Woodward G1

• Oct 8     Bel Man o’ War Turf G-1

• Oct 28   WO Cnd Int’l Turf G-2 (G-1 today)

On dirt, except for the Whitney, he raced in G-1’s or invitational races that should have been rated G-1’s.

It’s interesting to note that in a space of 43 days, Secretariat raced in four races at distances of 1-1/8, 1-1/2, 1-1/2, 1-5/8.

LAZMMINICK its about time you came to your senses.  From now on just ask me and I will tell you what to think.  When Rachel wins the Haskell I believe she is not only HOY but the best 3 year old filly ever. Brian A. I am a huge Citation fan so its hard to argue the year Citation had.  My only defense is Rachel is a filly so what the fact that she is walking in some of the same steps Citation took speaks volumes.  Tiznowbaby you went back to 1904 to see if we could call Rachel the best 3 year old filly ever?  Look, racing was much different 100 years ago but let me say this.  Beldame wasn't perfect at 3 and should Rachel win her next 2 or 3 and finish her year undefeated she will have finished the greatest season ever for a 3 year old filly and one of the best ever by any horse. Last, I want to say Secretariat was no DuD but remember this. He didn't win a G1 race on dirt before the Triple Crown series and he didn't win a G1 on dirt after the Triple Crown series.  He peaked at the perfect time and those 3 races will live forever but you cannot deny that Secretariat lost several races to very average horses.

Dray! I like the way you just harpoon Secretariat and Ruffian, basically racings first couple of the Swingin' Seventies, Dray, you aim high, 'bruddah!  

LDP rents due soon---c'mon, Bessy! Give it to me! Churn out a Sunday Winner for me--and I'll give ya something ta "Chew" on---race five, #4 Ranger Heartly, Hollywood...'seeya!!!!

Saratoga A J --I agree Rachel's Preakness is the #1 race run in North America this year, in my opinion--the pace was fast and she ALONE lasted! Rail Trip's gold Cup also looked fantastic, and it's good to see he got a 111 Beyer...and there's also that Derby...the oddest Derby of my 39 years as a Derby fan...Ron Ellis is expert at getting a horse ready for a particular race--there are MANY gunning for the Classic this year--I haven't heard anyone bring this up but if Well Armed runs them off their feet in the Classic, why wouldn't you give it to him? (HOY)....Racing "needs" a third banana, sort of to push those two fillies together, maybe that's Well Armed....

Shawn P, I'm chuckling. I still like Draynay and if Rachel wins the Haskell, I will have to agree with him. Don't agree about Secretariat, Ruffian, Citation et al. though. Let's wait and see how Rachel does the rest of the year. I am rooting for her to succeed. I never root for a horse to fail.

LDP

yea i sometimes miss the breeders cup because of my brothers football games. but yea its all good.

dray

i think RA has to do more then win the haskell for HOTY.

Cleone... you keep harping on it so let me clue you in on the Marlboro Cup.  It was a made up race for TV with the corporate sponsor Phillip Morris.  It was to be a match race with Riva Ridge but Riva had just been beaten by a unknown 56 to 1 shot.  So they arranged a race like they did for Big Brown on Secretariats favorite track.  The fact is if you check the splits from the race and compare them to Rachels in the Mother Goose you will see the Rachels splits were faster and had she not been eased she would have tied or beaten his record.  On a side note it should be mentioned that both of Secretariat's losses after the Belmont he carried only 119 lbs. and the FACT remains he never won a G1 on dirt before or AFTER the Triple Crown races.  No Travers ? Geez.

Draynay, you display the most beautiful non-logic.

If you want to say that Rachel is the best 3-YO filly ever, then you must look at all 3-YO fillies in history, not just the ones you choose. If that means going back to 1904, then so be it.

Until Rachel goes out and beats the boys, including older ones, 6 times, then her season doesn't rank with Beldame's. She'll just have to have the SECOND-best 3-year-old filly season ever.

Dray:

Permission to think…..

I think you’re kind of reaching when you start talking about graded stakes races.  Back in the day they didn’t grade races like they do today and you know it (or at least you should).

Secretariat’s Two year old year:

• The Hopeful was unlisted….today it’s a G-1

• The Belmont Futurity was unlisted though up until the Breeders Cup it was considered one of America’s most important 2 y-o races….It would have been a G-1 today.

• The Champagne was unlisted….today it’s a G-1

• Secretariat won them both (D’qd from Champagne)

• The Laurel Fut. was unlisted….later a G-1 on dirt for some years.  It was also one of the year’s premiere 2 y-o races.

• The Garden State Futurity was unlisted though it was considered one of the most important 2 y-o races.  It would have been a G-1 today.

Secretariat’s Three year old year after Triple Crown:

• June 30 AP Invitational – raced against and defeated horses that he competed against and beat in the Triple Crown races (they were all G-1 horses, why not rate this a G-1)

• Aug 4    Sar Whitney  G2 – today this is a G1 and it should have been then.

• Sept 15 Bel Marlboro Cup – listed as an invitational.  To not call this a G1 is a joke.

• Sept 29 Bel Woodward G1

• Oct 8     Bel Man o’ War Turf G-1

• Oct 28   WO Cnd Int’l Turf G-2 (G-1 today)

With regards to Rachel, I don’t won’t to belittle her.  You seem to be doing a pretty good job of that with you so-called intelligent comments (unfortunate for Rachel).  If you want to talk about time talk about Desert Vixen.

• She ran her Beldame (1-1/8 miles) in 1.46 1/5 (as a 3 y-o) on the Marlboro Cup card.

• To prove it was no fluke she won it the next year in 1.46 3/5.

• Her 3 y-o year included wins in the Beldame, Gazelle, Test, Monmouth Oaks, Delaware Oaks, Alabama (against large fields)

• Raced against boys (2nd in D.C. International on turf as a 4 y-o) when that race was top two or three turf races in N/A.

• Do you think she would stand up to Rachel?

I’m also willing to bet you wouldn’t talk about Louis Quatorze and Curlin in the same breath, but the fact is, Louis ran a faster time in the Preakness than Curlin did so does that make him a better horse?  What does that tell you about time?

And please inform your FRIEND Afleetalexforever that the Illinois Derby, the Arkansas Derby and the Louisiana Derby are not G-1’s, they’re G-2’s.

So SECRETARIAT doesn't get a pass for losing to ONION or PROVE OUT? Then how come RACHEL ALEXANDRA gets a pass for losing three races last year?

I don't know why the 1973 Marlboro Cup was not a Grade 1. Maybe it was because that was the inaugural running and it was not allowed to be graded because of that? 1973 marked the first year of grading American races, and that race featured 5 champions, so it should have been a Grade 1.

Let it go already with the Dixie Chicks. They re-routed their tour, and it was a success. I was at Staples Center in Los Angeles, when they played to a packed house, and we cheered them on and we hissed and booed at Bush. It's not up to you to stop people from exercising their right to dissent. Once again, Natalie didn't do anything wrong. Why not get over it and forget it already?

The 73' Marlboro was not a grade 1 because that was the first running.  The grading system was instituted in 1973, so it wasnt a matter of the race coming before the system was in place. The key was that it was the first Marlboro Cup. The graded stakes committee typically only bestows a particular grade  for a race after multiple runnings of the race. Thus, the Marlboro Cup remained ungraded for a few years until 1975, when it was given a grade 1 classification.

The same thing was true for the Dubai World Cup. Technically, the Dubai World Cup was ungraded when Cigar won the inaugural running in 1996 and when Singspiel won in 1997. When Silver Charm won it in 1998, however, it had been given the grade 1 status it still holds. One result of the Dubai World Cup being ungraded for its first two runnings is that Cigar is given official credit for only 11 grade 1 wins in his career, and not 12. In addition, Cigar is not given credit for  graded stakes victories in the 95' and 96' Mass Caps because the race had been discontinued between 1990 and 1994. Similarly, Cigar's win in the 1996 Citation Challenge at Arlington was ungraded given it was a one-year special event(in which Cigar tied Citation by winning his 16th straight race), even though the purse for the race was over $1 million and the field featured multiple gr.1 winner Dramatic Gold, Met Mile winner Honour and Glory, and that year's heavy Kentucky Derby favorite, Unbridled's Song.

As with the Marlboro Cup and Dubai World Cup, Del Mar's Pacific Classic was not given grade 1 status until its 3rd running(1993). Thus, Best Pal's win in the 91' Pacific Classic is not considered to be an official grade 1 victory. Nonetheless, I still give Best Pal credit for 7 career grade 1 wins by including that Pacific Classic, just as I give Cigar 12 career gr.1 wins(by including the Dubai World Cup) and consider Secretariat's 73' Marlboro a grade 1.  

In one of his books, Andy Beyer analyzed Secretariat's 1973 season through the prism of speed figures. As a 2 year old, Secretariat ran figs in the 110-116 range, which were simply astronomical for a juvenile. Secretariat ran around a 120 when he won the Gotham, but he regressed significantly in the Wood, with a fig below 110. Secretariat returned to peak form for the Triple Crown races, running a 129 in both the Derby and Preakness before plateauing with a figure reported as either 138(I've seen more recent references quoting a 138) or 148(which I believe Beyer originally stated in his book).

Secretariat's 129 figs in the Derby and Belmont were the highest Andy Beyer had assigned a horse up until that time, while the 138/148 Belmont remains the highest fig in history(which he started making in the late 60s). Secretariat never ran back to his Belmont, according to Beyer, instead returning to his usual 125-129 range in his subsequent races. There was, however, one exception, that being the Whitney. Secretariat's fig for the Whitney loss was considerably below his average, giving creedance to reports of illness. Secretariat returned to form with another 129 in the Marlboro Cup. What happened in the Woodward when he was blown away by Prove Out? Well, as others have stated, Beyer wrote that Secretariat had no excuse, and actually ran his typical fig of 126-129.  The problem for Secretariat is that Prove Out ran a monster race, earning a fig that would have made him competitive against any all-time great.

Tying this in with the mythical race from the Century Dream Series Lazmannick refered to, I can certainly understand why Secretariat would be the choice of so many. Again, when looking at a one race shootout, Secretariat has to be given the edge given he ran what was by almost all objective measures the greatest race in history(Belmont).  

However, what if we were looking at a series of 5 or 10 races? This is where Dray's points about Secretariat's inconsistency is relevant.  Secretariat did not ever reproduce his Belmont run, so one cannot use that performance to predict the results of the remainding mythical 9 races in a 10 race series. Now, the thing about Secretariat is that his "typical" performance of 125-129 Beyers would still be good enough to win a mythical series against most any other horse. However, Secretariat's 125-129 would not be good enough to win ALL of the races in the series, given horses like Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer and even recent runners like Ghostzapper, Gentlemen, Formal Gold, and Skip Away ran figs in the 125 range. Then, if we take into account that about every fifth or sixth race Secretariat turned in a well below average performance, like in the Wood and Whitney(whatever the excuses), any mythical series would be alot closer. In my opinion, I would take Secretariat over any other horse that has ever run in such a series, but against a horse like Spectacular Bid or Dr Fager, he might only win 6-4.

Over the last 20 years, I would have to rate Cigar as the best of them all, followed closely by Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Skip Away, and then a little further back by Holy Bull, Silver Charm, Tiznow, and Curlin. However, on any given day, I can think of a at least a dozen horses that ran fast enough, at least once in their career, to beat Cigar in a single race matchup.

During this period, I have had the honor of seeing most of these wonderful horses run in person. Obviously, I would have to rate  Cigar as the best horse I have ever seen, with Skip Away and Sunday Silence co-2nds. The race I saw Cigar win was the 1995 Hollywood Gold Cup, where he put in a "classic" Cigar performance, overwhelming his foes with a brilliant move around the turn before drawing away for any easy 3.5 length score. Yet, as good as Cigar was that day, I cannot say that he stood out from the performances of about 10 other horses I have seen, most much less known.  I have little doubt that Best Pal in the 92' Big Cap or 92' San Fernando, Gentlemen in the 97' Hollywood Gold Cup or Pacific Classic, Curlin in the 07' Breeders Cup Classic, General Challenge in the 99' Pacific Classic, Lava Man in the 2005 Hollywood Gold Cup, Siphon in the 97' Santa Anita Handicap, Criminal Type and Sunday Silence in the 90' Hollywood Gold Cup, Grand Canyon in the 89' Hollywood Futurity, Free House in the 99' Big Cap, Corinthian in the 07' Breeders Cup Dirt Mile, Pleasantly Perfect in the 03' Breeders Cup Classic, Skimming in the 01' Pacific Classic, Smarty Jones in the 04' Preakness, Southern Image in the 04' Pimlico Special, Street Cry in the 02' Stephen Foster, or Milwaukee Brew in the 02' Big Cap could have pushed Cigar (the Cigar of the 95' Hollywood Gold Cup) to the limit. For, the Beyer speed figure Cigar received for his 95' Hollywood Gold Cup was a 118, and the horses in all the races just mentioned earned a 118 or higher. In fact, Best Pal earned a 123 and 121 for his 92' Big Cap and San Fernando victories and Gentlemen ran a 121 in both the 97' Hollywood Gold Cup and Pacific Classic.  What separated Cigar from these other horses is that Cigar basically reproduced that 118 Beyer performance in 20 straight races.

Mike S - I am actually clapping for you post on 18 Jul 2009 9:54 PM!!!! Thank you for bringing up another case for the Queen of the Fillies.

BTW anyone interested in reading a nice article on Rachel should pick up the new issue of Vogue. Though I dislike their comparison to Secretariat I do think any fan on the filly should get their hands on a copy. Not every day ... month ... year that a horse gets into Vogue.

DRAYNAY

Your act wore out a long time ago regarding all the insults you've hurled at MTB,among others'. If you were a fraction as bright as you think,you wouldn't ignore the fact he's been in the money in ALL THREE RACES! It's not his fault he cost you in the Derby,that's your problem. If you had an ounce of class you wouldn't make a career of slamming one horse after another to make a point.

Matt,

    I looked at your race the best i could, and would take Baltic Point, Seven Times Lucky, and Catch My Tale.

I looked over the Del Cap and my top four are Icon Project, Acoma, Morena, and Unbridled Belle.

Good Luck.

An interesting note...

Majestic Light in 1976 had the highest margin of victory in the Haskell of  6 lengths.. at a time of 1:47 flat setting a stakes and track record for 1 1/8 miles... Spend a buck holds the record of 1:46 4/5 having done that in 1985..

Rachel has won at 1 1/8 miles twice this year at times of 1:46.33 at the Mother Goose winning by 19 lengths...

and at the Kentucky Oaks at a time of 1:48.87 winning by 20 1/4 lengths...

How many lengths can you see her winning by?  assuming she wins.. but I'm pretty confident..

So with

Mike Relva,

Thank you for the comment.  Ruffian holds a very special place in my heart as does Secretariat.

I remember watching the tragic match race and how horrible it was but not quite as horrible as Go For Wand's BC breakdown as it was so graphic on TV.  Ruffian and GO for Wand were so competitive they still wanted to run after they brokedown. Ruffian was such a shining star in racing, such a stand out.  The kind of horse you make your own.  Some horses are just special, more memorable and being undefeated made her even more so. I read a book about Ruffian

over 20 years ago and tears were rolling down my face reading it.  I still cry for that horse. Comparing today's horses with yesterday's champions is not right and trying to belittle their competition is ludicrous.  Belittling any horse's competition is grasping at straws.  It is not stated in the record books that Secretariat beat nobody, a weak crop.  That's just insane.  Doesn't make sense.  Secretariat still holds several records but Draynay has to bring Secretariat in as less than stellar because it makes his arguments better.  As everyone remembers, Big Brown was Draynay's horse and his competition was tougher than Secretariat's.  Yeah, right!  BB was no Secretariat but he did accomplish things in his own right but should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Secretariat.  Rachel should in no way be compared to Ruffian either.  It just isn't done.  Two different eras.  It just doesn't make sense.

Yesterday's champions were tougher and more durable. Comparisons can't be made and shouldn't be just out of respect for the champions of the past.

MONICA V

Everything you said,I agree w/you. Very good points and I enjoy reading your posts as they illustrate well versed with knowledge. What I can't stand is certain individuals who slam horses,don't give a damn if it's a claimer or Derby winner,I don't like it. That shows a lack of class and respect for the horse. Like yourself,was a fan of Ruffian,just five when she broke down. Doesn't sit well with me when someone with no respect continues to harp on proclaiming RA to be better,as if Ruffian is nothing and didn't make an imprint in racing. It's stupid! Thanks for your posts,people like yourself,Greg J and a few others' really "get it",while some never will.

Mike I am over it.Free speech is also about accountability and the public will make you accountable whether you like it or not. Yes, I am sure all of La La Land was having a party when the Chicks showed up. The thing I love most about California is Zenyatta and the Moss's. Great horse, good people. Moving on.

Gunbow, ANOTHER wonderful post. Thank you.

You know these hypothetical match-ups between the greats is just that,  hypothetical. There is no way to know who would win on any given day. But I wouldn't want to meet up with the Secretariat who showed up at Belmont. Looking forward to picking up Vogue.

Mike Relva, MTB has my heart too. It's not over for him either. More races to come. I will be rooting for him. He is one game little horse.

I am looking forward to the return of Quality Road. If he is back in form he will be formidable.

Two race parlay today! Race 9, Belmont, #5 Mikoshi, 5-1, I'm lovin it!.....Race 5, Hollywood Park, #4 Ranger Heartley, 5-2, seeya, he's gone, wire to wire!

Compare and contrast as you will about competition, track surfaces, and historic performances by other horses.  To date, Rachel Alexandra is the best horse period. No one knows what the future holds, no one.

LDP:

The Pro-ride was in place @ the start of the meet,4/5weeks b4 the BC. Cali tracks switched to synthetics the year before in 07',my mistake..not 2yrs. But,I think you're missing my point. 1st) I don't think you can "juice-up" a synthetics surface to play faster,like you can a dirt surface,it is what it is. 2nd) Once they switched surfaces,I believe the 'old dirt' track records were tossed,and new ones were established beginning in 07'. Therefore with ALL that top quality of horse-flesh @ the BC(1st time on the new surface),you'd expect records to fall or be matched because of the horses,not the track playing faster than usual. The undercards featuring allowance/claiming horses weren't running lights-out,...like the undercard for the Mother Goose was,producing ridiculous times by allowance/claimer type horses.. Proof that the track that day was "juiced",hence RA rather low 108 Beyer for her Stakes record-breaking 20L romp. You have to admit,those 2 fillies going at it like sprinters set it up perfectly for her,making it even easier to set a new record.  Plus,why did u bring up Zenyatta,I never mentioned her. Though I think Zen would get the best of RA on any surface,with a full field @ 1 1/8m or longer.

Shawn P:

That little inside Info on RuPaul..er..Draynay was too much. LOL...I thought he was in his early/mid 20's,honestly.

PAULA HIGGINS

Thanks,I agree!

GUN BOW,

You should go back an review Holy Bull's career.  He is right up there with Cigar as one of the best in the last 20 years and certainly had the best 3YO season in that period.  It is arguable that over the last 40 years only Secretariat has had a superior 3YO season.  Had the late Jimmy Croll decided to run him in the '94 Breeder's Cup classic (for which he would have been the overwhelming favourite), a win there would certainly have put him shoulder to shoulder with "Big Red" as a 3YO phenomenon and given him the clear edge over Cigar in the all time ranking, in my informed opinion.  Check it out Bro.

I agree with Draynay that "Rachel" is having an outstanding season unsurpassed by any 3YO filly in history, including the immortal Ruffian.  However, for her 3YO campaign to stand shoulder to shoulder with Secretariat's or Holy Bull's, she has to trample the best older horses (colts and geldings and mares) in Grade One competition MORE THAN ONCE.  If she can take that challenge on successfully this season we are going beyond frivolous comparisons with "queen" Zenyatta as well as HOTY considerations here to being a living equine legend.

All Jess Jackson and Steve Asmussen have to do is prepare her for any two of either the Whitney, Woodward, JC Gold Cup, the Personal Ensign OR Beldame.  The BC Classic or Distaff (if she thrives on the heavy campaign)would put her over the top as the undisputed champion of all time.  What a dream.  

GunBow I always enjoy your post but for you to think Secretariat would have had ANY chance of beating The Bid at a 1 1/8th or 1 1/4 your dreaming.  No horse EVER did it and Secretariat was beaten by average horses at this distance.  Mike Relva I am not going to get into with you.  The Derby mud winner has won 1  out of 5 this year and calling it a FLUKE win is so far well deserved.  Tiznowbaby no matter how hard you try Beldame was a very good horse but not undefeated at 3 and didn't win a Triple Crown race, Rachel still tops her.  MonicaV you said,

"Yesterday's champions were tougher and more durable. Comparisons can't be made and shouldn't be just out of respect for the champions of the past." You could not be more wrong.  When we compare the greats of today with those of the past we honor them all over again.  We keep records in sports because records are MADE to be broken.  When we compare the amazing things Rachel Alexandra has accomplished this year with past greats like Ruffian and Secretariat we honor the present and the past.  Secretariat will always have the Belmont just like Big Brown will always have the Derby. Comparing the past with the present should help us appreciate the history that is being made today.  Rachel topping accomplishments by Ruffian doesn't make Ruffian any worse.  There is no honor in denying the present their due.  It robs them of their rightful place to be mentioned with the all time greats.  I went thought that 30 years ago with The Bid I won't go through it this year with Rachel.

Per what you said Lazmannick “And please inform your FRIEND Afleetalexforever that the Illinois Derby, the Arkansas Derby and the Louisiana Derby are not G-1’s, they’re G-2’s. LAZMANNICK 19 Jul 2009 1:02 AM.

First I live about 45 mins from Oaklawn Park and I know a bit about horse racing.  I also know how to read, although apparently some here especially you don’t.  You are so worried about trying to be right that either you didn’t read my post or you just don’t have common sense.  But let me quote what I said previously.

What i said was that: the Derby winner, 2nd place finisher, 3 place finisher and 4th place finishers all ran against Rachel that day.  She also defeated General Quarters, Friesan Fire, and a sprint specialist in Big Drama.  Now to call the winners of the Santa Anita Derby, the Arkansas Derby, the Louisiana Derby, the Illinois Derby, and the Toyota Blue Grass Stakes 2nd to 4th tier, well that is disgraceful to the history of all of these races and to the connections of their great horses. Horses get hurt and sometimes a crop is depleted, we all realize that, but to run these horse down that ran in the Derby and Preakness, THAT IS CLASSLESS.  Expected at time by people who come onto blogs like this and give their opinions like “Rachel A ran against 2nd to 4th tier competition” but the number of grade 1 wins between this group totally shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

So let’s try to get an understanding of where we are.  I said the number of Grade 1 wins between this group of horses (4) it would be ignorant to call them 2nd to 4th tier.  Here is where I will try to slow it down for you Lazmannick.  I never said that the AR Derby, LA Derby or Illinois were Grade 1.

Running athletes of all species generally run the fastest going a distance of ground(over 1 mile for a horse) unopposed or with a rabbit or rabbits. Comparing Ruffian and RA times for the same distance is not realistic. Secretariat and Ruffian were considered house hores and the track was chopped(groomed) to suit the hores. Ruffians 2:27 under those conditions is not very impreessive whereas Secretariats 2:24 is more telling. As I previously noted Ruffian was never headed until the Foolish Pleasure match. Her early fractions were rank fast. Foolish Pleasure was covering her moves in a more controled state. I remember the half being 44 and change. Pretty quick for those days. RA seems to have more tactical speed and can move from anywhere at any pace. Foolish Pleasure and MTB were similar in many ways except FP had bad feet needing constant care. I would be more enamored with RA if she had stayed with her original trainer and connections.

Mike Relva you sound like an angry child.  If you don't like the word "better" how about "more accomplished?"  Rachel at 3 has earned her way to the top and comparing what she has done to this point with the greats of the past honors them and her rightfully.

Geeeeeeeeeeesh where have I been.  I didn't even know this blog was here till now.  LOL.

Greg J.  What's going on?  Hi Mike R and everyone else.  

Mike S...

Well I have read enough of this blog to know that you are right!  Seriously now has everyone even been putting Ruffian and RA in the same sentence?  Geeeeeesh I guess I didn't miss much while I was gone aye?  :)

You know what "freedom of speech" is about? It's about criticizing the government and/or the president without any fear of reprisal, retribution or punishment. It's about actually having a Free Country. It's really only a protected right for one reason: so that we are free to dissent and have a contrary opinion about our leaders. God forbid that the ones who want to take away people's right to dissent should ever win this fight. Having the right to say, "The president is stupid" is not something that "goes both ways," it's something we all have the right to say, and no one should even TRY to take that right away.

How about getting on to the topic at hand again? RACHEL ALEXANDRA just might win Horse of the Year, we don't know yet, but she has more to do to get that honor. But then again I don't really see anyone else really stepping up in a big way to claim that title. Right now it's RACHEL ALEXANDRA's to lose, really. But I also think that ZENYATTA will continue being ZENYATTA, which means that she will have a huge shot at this. At this point I don't see anyone else...but I'm hoping COLONEL JOHN and WELL ARMED go on mad winning sprees and toss their proverbial hats into the ring!

jason....

U are too funny!!!!!  :)

I continue to find it amusing to see people make statements before even doing a tad bit of research. Someone stated that you can't make synthetic surfaces quicker or juice it for faster times. LOL this is hilarious as we witnessed the problems with the surfaces in Cali last year were documented.  This arcticle from espn.com

ARCADIA, Calif. -- After a week-long break for a much-needed renovation project, racing resumed at Santa Anita on Saturday over a synthetic track that met the approval of several jockeys that rode in the first race.The $20,000 claiming race over 1 1/16 miles was won by the front-runner Ghosttrapper, who was timed in 1:43.30, slower than the fast times recorded before the track was renovated.The track had a "good cushion," according to jockey David Flores, who finished third aboard Brother Pegasus. "It feels much safer. Hopefully, it will stay that way." Even Victor Espinoza, who finished last of 10 aboard Judge Gallivan, was content."The track is good," Espinoza said. "It has a good bounce. I think it's much better than before."The race was not without an incident. The Five J's, who finished sixth, was vanned off with an injury to his right front ankle, according to track stewards.Saturday's program was the first since polymers and fibers from the Australian synthetic surface Pro Ride were added to the existing Cushion Track brand surface installed last August.The Cushion Track surface failed to drain after several major rainstorms, leading to the cancellation of 11 days of racing in January and early February. The renovation project ended at 4 a.m. on Saturday, less than an hour before the start of training.Three horses were exercised on the backstretch of the track late Friday morning. From lunchtime on Friday until early Saturday morning, maintenance crews worked to blend the fiber into the surface and groomed the surface to make it even. Main track training was conducted from 4:45 to 8:45 a.m. on Saturday, but ended early to allow crews time to make a few needed repairs to the course."We stopped at 8:45 a.m. to look at a few areas," track president Ron Charles said.There were 53 recorded workouts at distances ranging from three furlongs to a mile on Saturday.The average five-furlong time for 15 workers was 1:01.42, a time slightly slower than the average times in late January and early February."It seems like it needs to settle, but it's pretty good," trainer Vladimir Cerin said. "The horses are coming back fine."Trainer Jerry Hollendorfer worked three horses, but only after his exercise riders said they were happy with the surface."We galloped a bunch over it," Hollendorfer said. "Neither of my exercise riders said there was anything wrong with the track."

Afleetalexforever:

That's me.....CLASSLESS.

Have a good day.

DRAYNAY,

I just like to read this blog and do not like ot get involved and I think all these horses being talked about are awesome horses, but I just thought I should point out that Ruffian ran the Mother Goose at Aqueduct and Rachel ran it at Belmont so I dont think it is entirely fair to compare times at two different tracks, especially 30 years apart.

ADCOOK,

Sea the Stars WONT run in the BC Turf. He has already won enough overseas on the turf so the only reason to come over here for the BC would be to win the Classic, winning the turf would not increase his value at all after what he did in Europe.

I see where it's now a blog on how good Secretariat really was.

I too always found the fact that Sec. lost to Onion (at equal weights) and Prove Out (with PO actually carrying 7 more lbs!...both trained by the great HAJ) and therefore can not rate him as high as others have....BUT.....I also believe when he was at his best he was perhaps the beast ever.

Certainly for those 6 weeks in May-June 1973....it was the greatest 3 consecutive races in TC history. And no horse ever would have beaten him in those three races.

DRAYNAY

I'm also a big fan of RA,but the difference is I don't try to undermine what horses of yesterday like Ruffian,Secre, etc did. You quote alot of facts and figures of yesterday,which I admit you seem to have insight. You and I are different in the respect that I don't ever place one on a high plane in order to slam another! If you lost thousands or whatever in the Derby,MTB can't be held accountable for that.

I, for one, despise Rachel Alexandra and hope she gets dusted in the Haskell.

Afleetalexforever:

CHILL OUT!!!!

You sound like you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

I'll agree with you on one thing, as per your last post......

You do know A BIT about horse racing.

Well Armed is great too.  i adore Tiznow!!!!!!  But SEA THE STARS IS SPECIAL!!!!!!

My FAVOURITE and I said Favourite, (i think she is the best too but you may not agree!)racemare is DAHLIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My second favourite is Rags to Riches who did beat Curlin!!!!!!!

I adore Rachel and Zenyatta but my two favourite fillies are Stardom Bound (how is she?)and Careless Jewel!!!  Ok so they are both by Tapit who I love so very much so i am biased!

How is Friesan Fire?  Adriano?

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

I think there are several ways to look at the greats of horse racing. You can look at their total career record, individual races/records set, progeny or if they are truly specatcular i.e. Secretariat, Man O' War, and Citation, they transcend all categories. These are all valid ways to evaluate horses. I agree with Draynay that you can compare the past with the present. That only makes sense. However, if breeding in the 21st century breeds stamina out of horses, then the additions to the top 100 horses of all time is going to get very meagre and the horses to follow will be alot further down on that list.

But when all is said and done, when this season is over, we will ALL know if Rachel and Zenyatta are included in the Pantheon of Greatest Horses of All Time/List of top 100. They will either be in it or not. If they make the list, where they place in it will be the topic for discussion. Until then we can only speculate and hope we are seeing two of the greatest filly(s) to ever run.

Carlos,

    You aren't getting my point, i do not care what you think you can or can't do to a synthetic surface. The old record i don't think were "thrown out". My point is that on that day that track was very very fast, both the synthetic and turf, BOTH. My point is that if you give Zenyatta credit for her fast time, when it was on a lighting fast track then you have to give credit to RA. THAT IS MY POINT. If you do otherwise your being hypocritical. You can argue all day long, but thats the truth of the situation, and your not changing my mind.

Comparisons can't be made regarding horses until they face each other. So,let's just say for argument's sake,we compare RA's vs. Rags' 1st half of their 3yo season shall we.

RA) 6 for 6 wins the:

Martha Washington?..is that even graded?...@ the unimportant 'lil ole measly mid-west track' known as Oaklawn Park(per draynay).

LA. Oaks (Gr.II) @ that unimportant lower level swamp track,LA. Downs(per draynay).

Fantasy Stks. (Gr.II) @ yet again that mid-west hicktown track,Oaklawn Park.

Then,she takes the (Gr.I) KY. Oaks,vs. unaccomplished fillies,with the 2nd betting choice being GGG,winner of the Sunland Park Oaks,yup..that's right.

The Preakness (Gr.I) barely beats the Derby winning "fluke" who previously LOST the Sunland Park Derby,again you read it correctly.

The Mother Goose (Gr.I) against 2 fillies,1 was a recent Gr.III winner,the other an Allowance winner..not much there,though in her defence 2 or 3 other fillies did dodge her.  Stats: 3(Gr.I's),2(Gr.II's),the other,I'm not sure.But I do know that other than the Preakness,she's faced sub par competition so far,(oh,wait.GGG came back to take a Gr.I 'sprinting',then finished last in her most recent).

Now let's check out Rags' races: 5 for 6

Broke her maiden in Jan. @ Santa Anita(the Great Race Place,remember that?).

The Las Virgenes (Gr.I) @ Santa Anita

The Santa Anita Oaks (Gr.I) @ Santa Anita,obviously.

The Kentucky Oaks (Gr.I)

Then takes the Belmont Stakes (Gr.I),the "Test of Champions",while defeating the Preakness winner and subsequent 2-time HOTY Curlin,who just nipped the KY. Derby winner Street Sense 3weeks prior. She stumbled and went to her nose at the break,and raced 5-wide throughout.

The Gazelle (Gr.I) @ Belmont Park,finishes 2nd by a nose and is injured during the race,which would sadly be her last.   Stats:  4(Gr.I's),2nd(Gr.I)  

Who's 3yo season up to this point is better?(also,check the competition they each faced vs. fillies for added measure)...Best 3yo season ever by RA?.Please!!!  ANY TC Champions' season trumps what she has and might accomplish this year.She's a very good filly,but some people get carried away with their objectivity,or lack-there-of.

I'm taking up on the following point in this blog because I am tired of the Draynay "[fill-in-the-blank-this year] is the best ever" junk still flying around.  He's boring.  

So, Jason: if you made the Dixie Chicks comment because it's country music and you don't like country music and you used them as an example, that's OK.

If you made that comment because of the Paula Higgins/Mike Relva argument and you're siding with Paula, I just gotta say THAT's the reason a lot of people outside of your country snort when they hear "land of the free" applied to the US.  If you ever had the opportunity to watch British TV or Canadian TV, you'd REALLY see zinger-comments on leaders and no one calls anyone "unpatriotic" over those comments.  Probably because we think being thoughtful political animals is more important and you should be considering whatever your leaders do, whether you voted for them or not, instead of shutting people up because they don't happen to agree with you.

Even Draynay.  But he IS boring me and that's why I stopped putting anything on this blog until now.

No Dray, no matter how hard you try, Beldame was a very great horse and right now Rachel is trying to live up to her accomplishments. When Rachel beats colts SIX TIMES this year, then we will talk.

For those of you criticizing Rachel Alexandra saying she has taken an "easy" path you should probably take another look at the horses Zenyatta beats. Her owners have chosen a very easy path for this year (staying in California racing against the same horses all the time). I think Zenyatta is good but I do not think she is the best horse in the country and I do not think Jess Jackson is dodging her by any means. Before announcing Rachel would not go to the BC he said if she did go it would be to the Classic, not the Ladies Classic. No offense to Zenyatta fans but are you suggesting Jess Jackson is scared of Zenyatta, who has raced exclusively in California for all but 1 start (I believe- the Apple Blossum last year?) and would rather try and beat the best turf/dirt colts from around the entire world in the Classic? Yeah right. Sounds to me like he thinks Zenyatta isnt really competition. Rachels campaign has been ambitious. She has beaten everyone she has faced this year including a derby winner and derby/preakness top3 finisher. Rachel Alexandra can only beat who shows up to race her and with the recent announcement that Big Drama and now most likely Papa Clem, her competition in the haskell makes the field look weak. She cannot help it others are dodging her. Respect. In my opinion she is the best horse in training and I think with a win in the Haskell and either the Travers or Cigar Mile or Beldame,everyone else (except those in denial) will see Rachel for what she is: the best horse of the year.

Draynay said: "...but for you to think Secretariat would have had ANY chance of beating The Bid at a 1 1/8th or 1 1/4 your dreaming.  No horse EVER did it and Secretariat was beaten by average horses at this distance."

Um, in case you care, Secretariat only ran one race at a mile and a quarter, and he won it.  His losses came at 5 1/2 furlongs, a mile and an eighth (twice) and a mile and a half.

Sorry you're upset he didn't run in the Travers, I guess they should have started him despite the fever and the virus just to please you.  

Here is a interesting tidbit for you.  If Rachel wins the Haskell she will have 7 wins this year over a mile on dirt and equal the total number of wins by Secretariat in his ENTIRE CAREER on dirt over a mile.

I am very outspoken against your last President but i had better not write what I think of him on here!  Or what I think of B..... Blair!!!!!!!!!!  The Government from Hell!!!! Ooops I think i just did!!!!!!! I like Barack Obama very much though!

Isn't Draynay a bore?  How do you put up with him Jason?

I know I have strong views but I do not expect everyone to agree with me!!!!!!!!!!

You must be a saint coping with some of your bloggers!!!!!!!!

I am only saying that as a friend though!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

OK Jason, congrats.  It's OK to hate country music (even if you like Pearl Jam).  I agree with you about that.  

Hey Abby Knowles, us Commonwealth people have to stick together.  I don't like our current PM either.  And Jason won't let us use appropriate language to describe them.

Still, at least we have the chance to get rid of them more than once every four years (we've got a minority government here).

P.S.  How about a two year old filly for horse of the year this year?  They're doing some wonderful things so far.  

Cleone:

Good points that make a lot of SENSE, much more than some people on this BLOG.

Secretariat didn't go to the Travers as a certain expert pointed out.  I could try and make an excuse why.  Do you think that maybe he was trying to duck the eventual Travers winner.....Annihilate ‘em?

Seriously….he faced Annihilate ‘em in the Marlboro Cup, their next race, and soundly defeated him.

Draynay:

Why no comments about Desert Vixen’s time in the Beldame, or her record?  Did you know that when she won the Beldame as a 3-y-o in 1.46 1/5, she defeated five older mares plus another 3 y-o.  I’m aware that this feat won’t make your list of worthy accomplishments, but it sure makes mine.

It’s also interesting to know that on the list of 100 greatest thoroughbreds of the last century, Ruffian was the top rated female horse.  Desert Vixen, for all her accomplishments, didn’t even make the list.

Also, what’s your take on the fact that back in 1973 they didn’t grade races as readily as they do now?  Most of the races that Secretariat raced in before the Triple Crown and after should have been Grade 1’s, in fact, they would have been Grade 1’s today.

Belittle this point if you want, but remember when you belittle facts like that you just show how insecure you are.

Your point about Spectacular Bid and races at 1-1/4 and 1-1/8 actually make a lot of sense, but only because Spectacular Bid in many ways was as good as Secretariat and maybe at times, even better.  (There were also times when Secretariat was vastly superior).  Even so, if you had your last $1,000 and you had to bet on a race with the two of them in it, would you seriously take the Bid over Secretariat.

Jason:  lol...Evenflow my man,Evenflow.

afleetalexforever:

Your opening statement does not co-mingle with the article you posted,that sure didn't disprove what I said.If anything,it proved that no matter what they do to it,you can't make the synthetics play any faster than what they are. The point of that discussion was:  LDP feels that the synthetic track @ Santa Anita was extraordinarily fast for the BC,and I said I think it's impossible for that to happen.So,your point was?...

LDP:

Now you say that the Turf/Grass was also playing faster than normal for the BC too?...frankly,I've never heard of such a thing regarding turf.Don't you think it was the Worlds Best horses turning in excellent times rather than the surfaces?...feels like I'm arguing with my teenage daughter..."that's the truth of the situation,you can't change my mind"...OK,I give up then.But,like I tell my young-ins:"You're too young and new to the game to know any better right now".

mz... I am sorry that I am boring you but these conversations are quite shocking.  To suggest you cannot compare great horses today against the great ones of the past is pure nonsense.  Football, Baseball, even golfers are compared with those in the past.  Does calling Tiger the greatest  golfer ever diminish The Golden Bear and what he accomplished?  Not one of you on this blog has honestly compared Ruffians 3 year old season to that of Rachels.

Its just easier to say no one is as good or better than Ruffian. Even Carlos in Cali is trying to compare Rags to Riches as having a better year and we all know she was not undefeated and never won again after her Triple Crown win.

Every sport compares today's athletes with the greats from the past its part of sports and the reason we keep records.  How can you enjoy the present if you're always going to see the past with rose colored glasses.

Jason.....

Pearl Jam really rocks!  Have you seen them?  U got good taste in music.  :)

CJP..

Kind of a harsh statement there aye?  May want to tone down the anger a little.  RA is a very pretty and good racehorse.  Can't dispute that.  :)

Jason, sorry, after reading abbie's comment - politics need to be on a different blog; please ban these people for a month,

Cigar couldn't beat Ghostzapper in my opinion.

Jason are you saying that there is a present band playing today that is better than a band from the past like the Bay City Rollers or the Temptations ?  How dare you Jason how dare you call a present band the best.  Why must you tear down the great bands of the past Jason.  Talk about no respect for the past Jason....geez.

Uh Jason, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Byrds, The Doors/Jim Morrison, Eric Clapton (Cream), The Allman Brothers, Credence Clearwater Revival, Jimi Hendricks, Smokey Robinson and The Miracles, The Temptations, The Supremes, Carlos Santana, The Who, The Eagles..............

CJP,

I'm curious as to why you would despise a horse.  What did she do to you?

CJP

If you despise even one horse you aren't even close to being a real fan!

Speaking of history: on the eve of the 40th anniversary of the moon landing (one of your shining hours, guys), I felt is would be wonderful to remind us all of some fillies and mares born in 1969 as well as a few who died in 1969: San San, Susan's Girl, Dark Mirage and Real Delight.  

I'm not comparing them.  I don't feel the need.  I'm just remembering them with fondness.

(1969: another failed Triple Crown year)

Carlos...I'm right there with you regarding Rags. Winning the Belmont over the future HOY is much more impressive. Of course we can't say what the Preakness boys will accomplish, perhaps one of them will turn out to be HOY(though I really can't see that happening). I always enjoy your posts.

Dray...In your arguments for RA being the best ever you always say what past horses can never do to compare with RA, well what about all of the things she can never do to compare to them? Win the Triple Tiara, the Kentucky Derby, the Belmont, be Champion two year old, she can't even COMPETE in the BC let alone win it. I agree that she is the best 3 y/o filly racing in North America right now and leader for our HOY and I hope she kicks butt for the rest of her career but she has not cemented her place in history yet. She may just be the next Nellie Morse.

Another question...If/when RA races older females who is she going to face that is any better(or different) than the older females Zenyatta runs against?

MZ...thank you...you're a person who "gets it." People who "get it" are rare, apparently, and sadly. The Dixie Chicks, Pearl Jam, R.E.M., the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, Joe next door, Latoya the RN, and you and me all have the right to hate the president, and no one has the right punish them or us.

The two most amazing concerts I've seen were U2 and the Dixie Chicks because the audiences were on their feet during the shows and singing along to every song, and both shows were spectacularly awesome. R.E.M., U2, Coldplay, Credence Clearwater Revival, Pearl Jam, Stevie Wonder, Elton John, Cat Stevens, Sinead O' Connor, Alanis Morissette and the Dixie Chicks are my favorites...you know, since some of us are sharing favorites. I like lots of bands and singers, and I don't give a hoot if they like the president or not.

To keep this racing related...I saw the rock group The Police at Hollywood Park racetrack back in the day. The crowd tore down the fence and ran onto the racetrack. It was a great show.

DN just shot himself in the foot. Pearl Jam is NOT a present band. They've been around 20 years. My kid says they're a good old time band, no comparison to some of the real old ones though. (His 20 something opinion, not mine).

Jason said they were the best band of the past 25 years. He didn't say they were the best going back 35-40 years. Gotta love how he usually ends up arguing with his own premise and doing a turnabout every time.

Why don't you institute another ban if Rachel loses the Haskell? Double it like Dutrow had done to him for being a pain.

Paula, Santana came back around a few years ago. What's old and great always comes back. (Well excluding clothing, what's old is new again but that's not

necessarily a good thing).

On a music note (lol), I spent last weekend in Cali to combine a concert with my favorite band (Duran Duran) and the Hollywood Gold Cup into 4 days of fun. We stayed in Inglewood just a few blocks from the track and went all 4 days, the friday night concert was really fun(but there must be ALOT of people with glaucoma down there, if you know what I mean). I normally go to Del Mar every summer but because of Duran Duran I figured this was a good chance to go to HP since the city has decided to tear it down. After visiting this seems even MORE ridiculous. They want to build condos?? It is directly under the flight path to LAX. Who wants to buy a condo there? They want to build a big mall? There is like a mile of "mall" on both sides of the street right nextdoor to the track. They want to build a movie theater? OK I didn't see a theater in the area. Tear down the Forum and build a theater, but leave the track alone!

Jason, the friend that I drag with me to the track used to date the drummer of Pearl Jam.

Jason, the Steve Miller Band and Dave Matthews Band. Hey, the Rolling Stones have held their own in the past 20 years. Not too shabby. They may not look like spring chickens, but they did just fine on the road.

Hey Mike S: what about Tina Turner! And Jason: I don't care about your "within the last 25 years" cut off, Jason -- Tina Turner transcends time!

(now is someone going to say I should be banned for a month because I'm talking "solo" instead of "band"?)

Jason, I take it you aren't going to let me fight the Canadians?!!!

Speaking of RACHEL ALEXANDRA and the Horse of the Year race....I thought MICHAEL JACKSON was a very talented person and his music was awesome. "Black or White" and "They Don't Really Care About Us" are great. I'll only comment on his ability as an entertainer, except to say that I feel sorry for him and may peace be upon him.

Why are you people still fighting over who's the best? Ruffin was THE BEST in her time. Its to soon to tell who's the best for this year, there's no need to put down the horses of the past, they've already made history and are quite content with it. Zen and RA and a few colts are the best this year but will just have to see what the Haskel and BCC bring(only 2 races for example, I know there's alot more than just 2 races). There's no need to get all worked up about this.

Carlos,

     To just kinda prove my point lets review just how fast both surfaces were playing at SA.

Friday:

Distaff: 1.46.85. Her final five panels were around 57.

F&M Turf: 2.01.58. The final quarter went 23.46, 23 and 2/5.

Juvinile Fillies: 1.40.99.

JFT: 1.35.15

Ready hear is the slowest of the day(being very sarcastic).

FM Sprint. 1.19.90. Her final furlong was 11.99.

Sat:

Classic: 1.59.27 the final half went in 47.63.

Turf: an astounding 2.23.42.

Sprint: 1.07.08.

Juv Turf: 1.34.68

Juv: 1.40.94

Mile: 1.33.4

Dirt M: 1.33.41

T Sprint: 1.11.6. Not heart stopping but look at the first quarter of 20.73 and half of 41.81. Those are just a little flashy to say the least.

Marathon: 2.28.24 again not heart stopping, but the final half went in 47.29. Not bad considering your running a distance almost unheard of in this country.

Carlos, sorry for that one comment in my last post it was rude. Back to my point these times prove just how fast both surfaces were. When the final times weren't exceptional or just good, you had either off the planet early fractions or great closing times. That track was lightning, perhaps even more than Belmont was MG day. Both tracks were fast, very fast, and when the horses assmebled records fell. Good horses with came and ran records in the BC, over a fast new surface. RA is just as good as many who showed up that day, so it is only natural that when provided with a set up she could break a record, just like those at last years cup did.

I hear Elton John and Paul McCartney still give some of the best shows going. Considering Paul McCartney's age that is pretty amazing. Kind of like Einstein.

Hey Paula: we won the War of 1812.  Nyah, nyah, nyah!

Jason: welcome to the old fart's club.  Soon, you will be telling "young" people that something they think is original is simply a cover of an older song (that you remember, but not all the words and maybe, not even the name of the band). And if you're only 35, when did you start listening to Pearl Jam, in the cradle?

Speaking of childish,  did you notice my mature answer to Paula?  

Yup.  Time to wind this all up (and I want the last word!)

(but noting how many others are up late at night madly typing (with typos) on this blog, I'm gonna whine right now about not getting that last word!)

Jason...I don't know his name. I would guess he was either the first or second one as they got famous after she knew him. It was long before I met her. I'll try to remember to ask her.

Mike S...LOL. As I just said I was in LA last week and there are memorials ALL OVER town for MJ. I talked to a man who went to the memorial service and he showed me his souvenir book, he was very proud. And I saw numerous older men wearing MJ t-shirts at the track. He was good, but as I'm sure Dray would point out he's from the past and really has no bearing on THIS years HOY. LOL.

Well he was 4 or 5 (I think, sounds right) in 1990. He says The White Stripes are a good older band (1997 he says), the younger ones agree that for an oldies band TWS are pretty decent.

System of a Down, Wolfmother, and whoever any of those are. Just turn that da** noise down is all I know them as.

So, yes, to him and the others YOU are old and anyone over about 45 is ANCIENT.

Strangely the youngest (not even a teen) likes the Beatles and U2-Bono especially.  Funny, my early generation and I wasn't a fan.

The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Cream, Santana, Pink Floyd, The Who, The Stones.

But I even appreciate Sinatra, and some of the older ones.

Always have a certain amount of respect for the greats of old, even if they weren't my favorites or it isn't 'cool'.

Sheesh this blog sure went left of center,from horse racing but kind of a relief actually.

Hmm, he says guess you didn't like Kurt Cobain/Nirvana?

Called PJ 'sellouts'?  

Not sure but that's the comment I got.

I just found something else to argue about! Yay! While I agree that Pearl Jam is a great band and very influential I think it was R.E.M. that ushered in the whole "alternative rock" thing and I do believe they are looked upon as pioneers in that arena. I have read articles where Kurt Cobain (Nirvana) and Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam) and Thom Yorke (Radiohead) all gave credit to Michael Stipe and R.E.M. for leading the rock n' roll revolution.

I said no one needs to agree with my strong opinions.  

Once received an email which said.  What other peple think of you is none of your business. And I do not care what some of you think of me!

To be honest if I was banned for a month I would not care.  I like Jason but some of you talk rot!  Not all of you though!

My favourite pop group by a milion miles is ABBA.  A real CLASS Act!!!!!!!!

God Bless

best Wishes

Abbie

Ranagulzion:

I mentioned Holy Bull. However, I rank Cigar, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, and Skip Away ahead of him for top horses of the last 20 years(since 89'). That's just my opinion. I do remember the buzz Holy Bull created in 1994. The 5 years between Sunday Silence/Easy Goer and Holy Bull were low points for the sport. After five years without a real superstar male horse(although Best Pal came close), Holy Bull was like a savior. I will say this, at a mile or even 9 furlongs, I just might take Holy Bull over Cigar. However, at the classic 10 furlongs distance, I have to go with Cigar. Additionally, I think Cigar's accomplishments are superior to Holy Bull's accomplishments.

Monica:

I find it ironic that you criticize Dray for bashing horses(the horses of the past), but in one swoop basically bash all current horses by stating they are not as tough and durable as those of the past. As such, you suggest no horse of today is worthy of being compared to those of the past(or am I misreading this?). While overall it is probably true that horses of today are less durable(or simply trained more conservatively), there are exceptions, and a number of horses over the last 15 years have demonstrated every bit the durability, toughness, and talent to deserve comparison with horses from yesteryear(for more detail see my post on Haskin's blog on the subject of Damascus). Frankly, it's just these type of statements that probably compels Dray to so passionately defend current horses like Rachel.

Do I think Rachel should be placed alongside or above Ruffian, Beldame, Lady's Secret among others as the very best female racehorse ever? No, at least not yet. Rachel has put together a fantastic year and is the clear HoY leader, but a filly like Ruffian, in addition to being a champion 3 year old, was also a champion at 2, something Rachel was not. Having stated this, I do not feel that it is sacreligious for such comparisons to be made.

While I definitely think it is premature to compare Rachel's CAREER with the career records of the greatest fillies and mares of all time, I think it fully appropriate to compare her season to date this year with the top campaigns in history by a 3 year old filly, including Ruffian's. I know that through death Ruffian has become almost a diety, but she never defeated males, never defeated older females(I know it wasnt her fault, given she broke down, but these are the facts), only twice won a race around two turns, and beat up on a questionable generation of fillies. On the last point, her most significant victim at 2 was the top sprinter/miler, Hot n Nasty, but what about the fillies she defeated in winning the Triple Tiara? Let Me Linger, 3rd in the Coaching Club Oaks, did beat older fillies and mares in the Maskette(now Go For Wand), but all of the other major races in the summer and fall open to 3 year olds and up(including the Beldame, Spinster, John Morris/Personal Ensign, Matchmaker, Ladies, Molly Pitcher, Delaware Handicap) were won by older fillies and mares. Looking at just the 3 year old seasons of each horse, Rachel dessrves to be compared to Ruffian.

As a side note, I wish folks would stop talking about the Triple Tiara as if it was the female equivalent of the Triple Crown. The Triple Tiara never carried anything near the significance of the Triple Crown, and as a series run in one state(New York) and recently over just one track(Belmont), it was much more regional(and less national) than the Triple Crown. As a point, the last two fillies to win the Triple Tiara, Open Mind(88') and Sky Beauty(93'), are not in the Hall of Fame, even though they also combined for 16 career grade 1 victories(Sky Beauty with 9 and Open Mind with 7). Mom's Command, who swept the series in 1985, was only elected into the Hall of Fame in 2007, well after contemporaries like Lady's Secret(92'), Personal Ensign(93'), and Princess Rooney(91').  Now, the Triple Tiara is largely inconsequential, with the Kentucky Oaks, Alabama, and Breeders Cup Distaff holding more significance. Yet even in its heyday, such as when Ruffian ran, the Triple Tiara could not rightfully be described as the female equivalent of the Triple Crown.

The BEST band over the last 25 years is entirely subjective. However, the BIGGEST band, and by biggest I mean the band with the most record sales, top hits, top grossing tours, and cultural influence, would have to be U2.

25 years covers the period from 1984-2009, and 84/85 marked the time U2 eclipsed The Police as the biggest band in the world, and they have remained near the top (and relevant) since.  Pearl Jam is competing with REM, The Cure, Depeche Mode, and Metallica for the runner-up slot, although spotting those bands 7 years of activity.

Maybe had you limited it to the BIGGEST band of the last 18 years?

Oh, Jason, Jason, Jason.

Alas, you weren't around for the great 80s and the best thing that ever, ever happened to the world:

Hair Bands.

Sigh.

Oh, for the days of Warrant, White Snake, Bon Jovi, Poison, Def Leppard, L.A. Guns.

You poor, innocent, naive soul.

MikeS,

    Don't forget Billie Jean or Thriller. Those are my favorite two by him. I also love his slower songs, one being you are not alone and will you be there. There was no musician more talented or greater than Michael Jackson.

Jason,

      A new Blog Topic can't come quick enough...

Best Band in last 25 years...

     While I "Respect" all the Great Band's through the years.  It is almost impossible to compare the Great "Bands" and "Groups" from past generations.  My Favorite Group, "U2", While they produce Incredble CD's and Perform the Best Live Show's I have ever seen.  If someone came up to me and had a different opinion, Say that they told me that "Led Zeppelin" was the best ever and had the best albums and gave the Best Concerts's ever, I would agree that they were great in their day and are Rock Legends and to compare the two, Ummm, Well, It would be like comparing a Legend like, "Secretariat" to let's say, "Rachel Alexandra".  While both Great, and both deserve an incredible amount of "Respect", I, for one, Could not compare the two, Different times, Different music, Just Different.  I would say they are "Both Great" and give them both their due "Respect" without putting down a "Legend" to prove my point...

I wonder if anyone got my analogy, lol???

MZ,

    I am with you, The same reason I stopped posting as much...

Gunbow,

     I forget to mention, Great posts by you, as usual, Both here and over on "Hangin with Haskin", Well written, concise, and very knowledgeable, Thank You...

Lastly,

    "Summer Bird" will win the Haskell Invitational on August 2nd!, Can you imagine?, I wonder what a certain somebody will then call him?, Umm, Maybe, "Fluke2, The Sequel"...

GunBow another great post except the whole Ruffian thing.  Rachel has run as long as Ruffian and you CAN compare the two and you can say Ruffian was better at 2 but you CANNOT argue that Rachel is more accomplished at 3.  Look at their 3 year old seasons side by side and you HAVE to admit Rachel comes out on top.

Jason you are too young to remember the 80's and Tiznowbaby is 100% right the 80's rocked ! Girls with big hair, too much makeup, tight jeans, and spandex.... ohhhh those were the days!  You never saw Air Supply in concert Jason? Lol... my first wife forced me.

Jason.  Yeah I hear ya on the 32 time thing.  I have been to so many concerts that it amazes me.  You are right about this 25 year thing.  Of course we cannot dismiss Michael.  Although his best music was in the 70's and 80's that is still over 25 years ago.  

When you talk about bands like the Beatles, Elvis, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath (with Ozzy) and on and on then you are in a whole different time and place.  In the last 25 years, there hasn't been much good music really.   Ozzy did some good stuff in the early 80's.  But this last couple of decades have sucked.  Jason is right. Pearl Jam is about at the top of the list for THAT type of music in in a very long time.  

When I was in LA it was Thriller and all of Michael Jackson's music playing all over the city.  It was quite a week.  I am sorry but in this day and age, music just isn't like it used to be.  All of the kids now are never gonna get the good stuff.  That is long past history and I doubt that it will EVER return unless it is a reunion tour.  :)

Summerbird was able to take down a very game Dunkirk who had never taken the lead before and was not very seasoned.  Rachel is a very seasoned 3 year old filly who can simply run horse off their feet at this distance.  With 4 weeks rest or more she is simply not beatable right now.  Any horse that can run a 133 mile with such ease is in a different league and until that changes everyone is running for second.  She could have run a 145 in the Mother Goose and there is simply no horse presently and few in the past that can match her ability and splits.

LDP...

Don't get me going on Michael.  I don't want to be the musical Draynay of this blog.  I agree with you though.  Although I love Zeppelin the most and Sabbath to follow, Michael had a different type of talent.  He had versitile talent.  He could do so much with his voice and he was a beautiful dancer.  

Greg J.  There is no way that anyone can compare back in the day to now.  Back in the day was just that.  Back in the day.  If we were lucky enough to be there, then great.  I am for one very glad that I lived with all of the legends back in the day. :)  Wouldn't trade my age for the world.  I grew up with MJ and all of those good solid bands and horses.  NOPE I was there and back in the day will never be repeated.  Jason is right about Pearl Jam though.  THEY are the best band pretty much in recent decades.  I don't know what you want to call music these days that they call heavy metal.  OK well to me it is noise but if they want to call it music, that is fine too.  :)

Jason,

    What are you talking about the 80's rocked. At least back then we didn't have any stupid rap music, that stuff sound like nails on a chalk board if you ask me. Not real singing at all. Also not all country is bad Carrie Underwood is good, and any guy should at least like the way she looks, i know my dad does, lol.

Jason, you cannot use that amount of hair spray, contribute significantly to the hole in the ozone and then be compared to a $5K claimer. No, dear man, that is true greatness.

Tiznowbaby...

OMG no no no.  Those bands are not anything like Pearl Jam.  Pearl Jam has done some REAL writing and JAMMING!  They are strong and solid.  AND they sell out in minutes!  :)

GunBow...

Yeah you have a point.  Metallica was OK until they lost Cliff.  They then started to go down. I believe that they should have stopped like Zeppelin did but they didn't.  Kind of like Black Sabbath without Ozzy.  There is no such thing.  :)

GunBow:

Great analagy as usual albeit this time on bands.  My favorite all-time band will always be Chicago, especially their Chicago Transit Authority CD which includes Does Anybody Know What Time IT Is, Beginnings, and a fantastic opening piece to introduce each muscians individual ability titled...Introduction.  It also includes an anthem drum sols called I'm A Man.

My favorite all-time solo, who always performed well with his band, is Neil Diamond.  I especially enjoy Hot August Night.

Getting back to racing:  the Triple Tiara isn't what it used to be now, but it was the benchmark for 3-year-old fillies back in the day.  Conversely...the Kentucky Oaks is a big time race now, but it was only listed as a G-2 back in the day and it wasn't considered as important.

Greg J.  Whenever a horse wins a race that people don't like they always have some sort of "excuse" why the horse won.  This is the way I see it.  

On the day of the race when there is a 8 horse field, IMO the odds are 8/1 for every horse.  All of the variables that we need to consider are out the window once the horse has been put in the gate.  ANY horse can win ANY race on THEIR day.  :-)

Hey Jason.  

Do you like Eddie Van Halen?

Don't know why this is turning into a debate on rock bands, but let's get real.

The bands of the 90's can't touch the legendary bands of the 60's to 80's. I'll match the Beatles, Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, The Who, and  U-2, against just about anything in the last 20 years or so. and it's no contest.

These legendary bands endure, and still have their music played constantly today (and in some cases still tour) for one simple reason....they were the best ever. And the bands of today still draw their inspiration from the these great bands of that era.

I was absolutely not going to get into this music discussion, much less the ad infinitum arguing over a couple of horses. However, since LAZMANNICK mentioned Neil Diamond, I am going to say that both Billy Joel and Elton John (besides being classical "piano men") have written time transcendent, poetic music and lyrics.

LETS get one thing clear- racheal is a much smarter racehorse then RUFFIAN.

Steve S.

Can you explain how Rachel is a much smarter horse than Ruffian?

Karen in Texas:

Loved them both and you're right, the other argument is getting ridiculous, especially now after Steve S's post.

Steve S;

Did Rachel pass some kind of I.Q. test that we're not aware of?

The 80's?? You mean the decade that drove me to...Country Music...please don't make me go back there...noooo....please don't go ...all I can see is a Karma Chameleon with a shaved head, angry scowls, weird clothes, girls who are busy building cities and eating cannibals AKA Maneaters...forcing them to do a safety dance all the while whipping it.

Please...let's just let the music play on the islands in the stream...

I need help...reading this 80's stuff...sending up 99 luftaballoons in celebration of all the great music of the 80's, wondering if I'll talk in my sleep like a maniac.

I'll always appreciate Pearl Jam's efforts to fight Ticketmaster in trying to keep concert tickets affordable.

Saratoga AJ...

Beautiful Post!  :)

Jason...

I really don't like "Van Halen" per se but I love Eddie on the guitar.  He can really play.  I do like "some" of their music (older stuff).  :)

Jason, the reason PJ is imitated and Tina T is not is the same reason Aretha has no imitators: they are the INIMTABLE ladies of Rock n' Roll.

(Ladies: people who are women of class, not to be confused with the classy Mares and Fillies who run in the Distaff on the day most people have to go to work ;-))

GUN BOW,

Your response is appreciated.  However let me say this to you as a fellow student of this wonderful game, Holy Bull's 3YO season comprised 8 emphatic victories from 10 starts.  His wins came in the following races:

1)the Hutcheson

2)the Florida Derby

3)the Blue Grass

4)the Dwyer

5)the Haskell

6)the Travers

7)the Met Mile (against the best older horses)

8)the Woodward (against the best older horses again)

His only two loses were an uncharacteristic dull effort in the Fountain of Youth and his mysteriously jaded effort in the Kentucky Derby (Owner/trainer Jimmy Croll suggested that he was illegally tampered with before that race).  Please tell me how on earth could Sunday Silence and Easy Goer be ranked above him.  I'll admit that the comparison with Cigar will forever be debatable but against the aforementioned "dynamic duo" of 1989 there is no contest.  I would venture to say that without his breakdown in the '95 Donn Handicap we would rank Holy Bull on the same level as Spectacular Bid.  He just fell one season short (which arguably would temper our ranking of Cigar but we'll never be able to know).

Finally, our discussion of Holy Bull's remarkable 3YO campaign could provide some insight into the type of successful campaign that Rachel Alexandra needs to accomplish to firmly establish her place in thoroughbred racing history (she needs to defeat the best older horses).  Also Holy Bull's campaign should be a warning to Jess Jackson about being complacent when such ultra-talented 3YO colts are still out there capable of a second half of the season "Holy Bull" blitz such as Quality Road, Munnings and Big Drama (if the connections are bold and enterprising as Jimmy Croll was).  

da3hoss:

What do you mean you have to go to work when the distaff is going to be run?  You're posting now and your last one was at 1:52 PM according to the time below it.

Could it be you're at work right now and slipping in the odd post without the boss knowing?

ANY HORSEWHO FOOLS AROUND WITH WITH RUNNING FOUR FURLONGSIN 44.41 are not very smart.unnatural too be running that hard

And getting back to racing, if RA keeps on going, we could be looking at the greatest mare ever...wow, and we're here now to see it...or will Stardom Bound make it back in time to steal RA thunder?

Zenyatta? wow, we're here to see her run, too! Will she go against the boys after all?

Einstein...wow, is there still a chance see him win a Gr 1 on all 3 surfaces? Let's hope so, for this great racing trooper!

The Bird Boys...wow, we're here to watch them grow up!

Quality Road, wow, we're here to see him make his return debut...he could still steal it all!

Misremembered...or maybe Our Edge...pull a Tiznow second half of the season?...and wow, we're here to see what develops!

Better Talk Now, does our old favorite have another Grade 1 win left in him, wow, if he dooes we'll be here to see it!

Life's tough all around...enjoy the horses.

OK, now that I don't have either the last word or a war with Paula Higgins, let me remind all of you of the GREATEST band of all time: the BEATLES!!!!!

Other music is like Hard Spun: nice but no Curlin (I was going to say Cigar but I didn't want to get into a Curlin - Cigar thing).

For me: the 60's and then the 80's and Gun Bow: nothin' wrong about The Police!!!!

And Jason: don't go saying anything about Tina!!!

LAZMANNICK, you bet i'm posting while at work, but, I am on a lunch break...oh, oh, gotta go look in the mirror so I can see my boss watching me! LOL!;-)

PS I am a much better Boss than most people have, I'm going to let me decide if I need to take time to watch the girls run...I probably will, as long as I get my assignments done on schedule...I support "flex-time". I just wish I could afford to give me a raise!

And Abbie Knowles: I have a friend like you.  She actually KNOWS the words to ABBA songs -- I like them, they're catchy, but I never thought they actually had words.

"....feeling like THE number one..."

Sea the Stars OK.  What about Stacelita and Ghanaati???   Another filly Arc winner???

mz.....

I totally agree with you on that.  The Beatles is the greatest!  They started all of this and how it got to where it is today, I have NO CLUE! LOLOLOL!  I "think" the Beatles catalog that Michael Jackson bought was what 2 billion?  Something in there.  

mz.... LOL  That was good.  Tina rocks!  I like her.  

Come on,I seriously can envision 80% of the regular folks on here doing the MACARENA at some point in their life...Jason,I hear you were Livin' La Vida Loca in your Country Line dancing hey-days,true?

da3hoss:

Figured you hired yourself.

Hope your business is doing well......LOL.

Billy Idol and Eddie Vedder are my two favorite R & R singers---as for Rachel being so smart, then WHY does she miss a spot when she puts on her makeup (blaze) every am??!!

As for Summer Bird in the Haskell, that race is not exactly kind to deep closers, and Rachel is not exactly your average three year old--advantage Rachel!...The Travers is another story all together....VERY saddened to hear about POTN, I thought he ran lights out in the Derby, everyone who had a wide trip was way up the track that day--was hoping to see them wait for Travers as he was exhausted after Derby/Baffert didn't commit to Preakness for a week after Derby---If he's MY horse he doesn't go in Preakness (and I posted that after Derby)...Three year old crop has been decimated by injuries...older horses starting to come to forefront, methinks The Breeders Cup Classic will be loaded with good horses this year--keeping my fingers crossed for no more injuries....

Jason... Kicking off soon aye for a tour?  I have been so out of it that my thinking is off.  I'll probably hit the SF or Seattle show. :) Song rocks!

Saratoga AJ..

Can you imagine the nightmare we would have to go through to see Zeppelin again if they went on a world tour?  Lord, I camped out for 2 days at the stadium in 77.  Naaaa nothing today comes remotly close to that back in the day stuff.  I do admit that every once and awhile someone comes around like Pearl Jam, U2 and a few others but back in the day was BACK IN THE DAY!  Had to have been there as I am sure you were.. :)

da3hoss..

If Tina were to die, people would imitate her I  believe.  

GunBow, I missed a lot in the past couple days but, in catching up, I have to tell you how much I enjoyed your posts.  Particularly the one 7-19 4:41AM (myGod!! that's early)  Cigar and Holy Bull are two of my favorites and I just loved reading all you had to say.  Thank you for that.

I think I'll keep out of the music discussion.

I would only accept Zenyatta as competition for Rachel.  Nothing this year compares to Rachel beating all of the colts in the Preakness, except Zenyatta going undefeated and being older. Everything else is chump change.

Stardusty..and they would fail, miserably...same as Aretha, there are some who can't be imitated, we'd cringe while they tried...kind of like you...only one Stardusty Rose on this blog!

wendyg  all those other horses racing their hearts out is chump change?

Oh my word, I found something to agree with MZ and Mike S. Yes, the Beatles are the GREATEST band of all time, and yes, Michael Jackson was a phenomenal talent. I am sorry for the sadness of his life.

As for Abba, it's one of the bands I cannot stand. However, for those of you that like them, you will have to stand in line, Colin Powell is their biggest fan and "Dancing Queen" is his favorite song.

My husband loves Aretha Franklin and would dump me in a New York minute if she would have him LOL.

Jason,

On a musical level commercially no band is greater than TOOL.  I love Pearl Jam, but all bands bow down to TOOL!  Jason Ive seen Pearl Jam, Metallica, Van Halen, Pantera, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Incubus, U2, REM, etc, but none compare on a recording level as well on a live performance level to TOOL, They are as close to rock music perfection.  These are 4 guys who do things that are unbelieveable, theres a reason why they only do a record every 4 to 5 years, and it shows on the record.  Maynard James Keenan, is the probably the best Rock Lead Singer out there, Next to him only Chris Cornell can say he fronted 2 High Profile Rock acts, but Keenan takes it as TOOL and A Perfect Circle are over Soundgarden and Audioslave, although props to Audioslave for showing Secretariat on one of there music videos.

On a racing level, No horse today or in the past 100 years measure up to this list: Man O War, Nearco, Native Dancer, Ribot, and Secretariat.  The Tesio duo could very well be 1 and 2, as between the two they combined to win 30 races without touching defeat.  Put Ribot, Nearco, and Native Dancer and Man O war together, and you have only two losses between the four by a combined of a half-length.  And you can back that off with the fact that about 90% of the thouroughbred breed today are descendants of these 4 greats, and that includes Secretariat.

    I'm not so sure RA would win HOY even if she wins the Haskell, Alabama and Beldame.  A lot would depend on who she would beat in the Beldame.  If there are no older fillies and mares of note in the Beldame, the door is still wide open for Zenyatta or Einstein to take HOY.  Winning the FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness & Haskell wasn't enough for Big Brown to take HOY honors last year so I wouldn't crown Rachel just yet.  If Zenyatta can go 5 for 5 this year and win the BC Classic, even though she hasn't raced outside of California, I think that would make a very strong case for her especially if she were to beat horses like Well Armed, Einstein, etc in the Classic.  Think about it, I love RA and all, but even though she won the Preakness and might win the Haskell, would she have beaten any 3 year old colts in those races who could be compared to the older horses I mentioned above?  I don't think so.

    I've been on vacation for a few weeks, so these are the 1st posts I have read from Dray since his return from his ban and I have to tell you, he hasn't missed a beat.  Dray, do you honestly think RA is a couple of wins away from having a better 3 year old campaign than Secretariat?  I know you mentioned his competition, but let's try this angle out; what horse holds the stakes record for the KY Derby and Belmont Stakes?  What horse also held the "disputed" stakes record for the Preakness until broken a few years later?  During that same 3 year old year he also won the Marlboro Cup, Man O War and Canadian International.  The Man O War was a new track record and the Marlboro Cup, at the time, I believe was a new world record.  A few wins away from a better 3 year old season than the great Big Red, give me a freaking break.  By the way, I can't count how many GI races his competition won after the TC.  Can anyone tell me how many GI races Forego won since he did finish 4th in the '73 Derby?  Dray, I truly appreciate your "passion" and also your conviction, but sometimes it gets the best of your judgement.

    Finally, and no offense to the fillies and mares, but how far has thoroughbred racing fallen when it's August and the 2 leading candidates for HOY are fillies and mares?  Don't get me wrong, Zenyatta and RA are very nice horses, but honestly!  I guess it just shows the direction of racing these days or should I say breeding.  

Gun Bow,

Thank you for  your comments.  You always state things factually and eloquently.

My intention was not to bash today's horses when I said that we shouldn't be comparing horses of today with yesteryear's horses.  It was different back then.  Horses raced a lot more than they do today and carried more weight.  I remember going to the track at 15

and seeing that horses were carrying over 130 pounds in some races and that was not unusual.  Horses today, don't carry nearly as much weight as they did  then. I have heard trainers complaining when a horse has to carry 124 pounds. I think they still carry the same weights in the triple crown races but for handicap races, the weights are much lower.  It's hard for me to think a comparison can be made between a horse who has raced 8 times compared to a horse who has run 16 times.  The more a horse runs, the more likely they will lose unless they are Ribot or Personal Ensign. Ribot retired after 16 races, I believe, undefeated and Personal Ensign was 13 for 13. Truly, I am not saying they are not as good, just different.  

As for Draynay, he loves to stir the pot and tick people off. I happen to like him as I have been in and out of arguments with him for more than a year now.  He loves to belittle horses to make his horse shine.  That's just him but those horses of the past were truly remarkable but their careers and lives are over now and their accomplishments recognized. They will always be in the hall of fame even if Draynay finds them unworthy.  It is not my style to belittle or bash any horse.  It just isn't right.

As for being old in regards to music, I went to a Beatles concert in 1966 at Dodger Stadium. It was great!  I also saw Elvis in Vegas in 1972.  Wonderful.  I never saw Sinatra, however, but wish I had.

I am relatively new to racing so perhaps someone could explain this to me...

I keep reading posts from people about how RA's owner is "scared" to go out west to face Zenyatta, that Zenyatta would smoke Rachel etc. But it seems to me that Zenyatta's owners are protecting her as well.

After watching the Milady, I had to scratch my head when Zenyatta's owners pulled Life is Sweet from the Vanity and entered her in the Hollywood Gold Cup. Why enter your 2nd best horse in a much more ambitious race? I think it is because (A) Life is Sweet beats Zenyatta in the Vanity carrying less weight and (B) No way does Zenyatta catch Rail Trip in the Gold Cup. But I could be wrong. Perhaps someone here could enlighten me.

Well, Ruffian had a better personality than Rachael..

Ranagulzion:

We'll just have to disagree about Easy Goer/Sunday Silence vs. Holy Bull. Don't forget Easy Goer was a champion at 2, won 9 career grade 1 races, finished first or second in 19 of 20 starts and never finished worse than 3rd, and ran a mile in 1:32 and 2, 10 furlongs in 2:00 flat, and 12 furlongs in 2:26.  And as fast as Holy Bull was in terms of Beyer speed figures, earning a 122, 119, and 117, Easy Goer earned a 118 or higher in the 89' Gotham(118), 89' Belmont(120+), 89' Whitney(118+), 89' Travers(122), 89' Breeders Cup Classic(123), and 90' Suburban(120).  And I rate Sunday Silence slightly higher than Easy Goer. I tend to agree with the Bloodhorse Top 100 which ranked the horses between 1989 and 2000:

1.Cigar (#18 overall)

2.Sunday Silence(31)

3.Skip Away (32)

4.Easy Goer (34)

5.Holy Bull (64)

Actually, Silver Charm was ranked 1 spot ahead of Holy Bull, but I can empathize with those that would place Holy Bull before Silver Charm.

The holes I see in Holy Bull's resume is that he did not win a Triple Crown race nor did he win the Breeders Cup Classic, he won only one race over 9 furlongs, and in his lossess he ran out of the money. As for being the next Spectacular Bid, he was actually 2 seasons short. While Holy Bull did win the grade 1 Futurity at 2, that was his only graded stakes win while Spectacular Bid was the Eclipse champion with 3 grade 1 and 5 graded stakes wins. Of course, at age 4 Holy Bull only finished 1 race while the Bid put together one of the greatest handicap campaigns in history.

Having said this, I do think Holy Bull was a heck of a horse. I would rank Holy Bull's 3 year old campaign ahead of any 3 year old since. One of the quirky things I do is make my own Experimental Handicap(like in the DRF's American Racing Manual) every season, and for Holy Bull's 1994 I assigned him 129 lbs, one pound more than Point Given(2001) and Smarty Jones(2004), and 2 more than I gave Unbridled(1990), AP Indy(1992), Thunder Gulch(1995), Silver Charm(1997), Afleet Alex(2005), Bernardini(2006), Barbaro(2006), Curlin(2007), and Big Brown(2008).

Looking at the top 3 year olds of the 80s, excluding Sunday Silence and Easy Goer, a good case can be made that Holy Bull had a better season than any of them, with Conquistador Cielo and Swale coming closest, weighted by the DRF at 129 lbs on the Experimental Free Handicap. So, over about 30 years(since the Bid), I would rank Holy Bull's 3 year old season 3rd or co-2nd with Easy Goer(although I believe Easy Goer had the better career).

I do agree that people should be giving alot more respect to the 3 year old males this year like Summer Bird, Munnings, Quality Road, Mine That Bird, and other potential rapid developers. Consequently, I expect the Haskell to be a tough race for Rachel Alexandra, which is why if she wins, it would be another historic accomplishment.  

Heavens to mergatroids! Remember Huckleberry Hound? Paula Higgins and I agree on Michael Jackson's incredible talent! I also agree that he was a very sad person and a tortured, troubled, lonely soul. My heart goes out to him.

Emilio...your opinin of the band Tool makes me want to go back and check them out again...but I do like them a little already.

Nothing is more cool than Michael Stipe singing "I Took Your Name" during an R.E.M. show.

I was thinking that if I ever am blessed in this life to have a wonderful racehorse and he makes it to the Kentucky Derby I will give 10% ownership of the horse to Natalie Maines the night before the race. But I'll only do that if Toby Keith has a horse entered. And I'll pray that my horse (and Natalie's 10%) wins, beating Toby's horse in a photo finish. Somehow I just see this as poetic justice.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again...We have not seen a racehorse as good as SPECTACULAR BID since SPECTACULAR BID. I don't think any horse in the last 29 years could touch him, at least from 7 - 10 furlongs.

I don't think Zenyatta, who I love, will really be in the running for HOTY because I don't think they will run her in the BCC. Where else are they going to run her against the boys if she doesn't leave California? I don't think they have any plans to do either. I know the Moss's are fine people but they are a little cautious. I don't think Rachel's people are afraid of Zenyatta, but they are afraid of the synthetics.

Jason,

You are a real trooper - still taking comments over 450.

Off topic, I saw VH at the Spectrum around 1995 (Balance tour).

The guys came out in Flyers jerseys and stood with their backs to the crowd - 5150.

They rocked hard.  

Really like that record (Balance).

The following summer in Camden it was more of a party atmosphere.  Still a great show.

Peace

da3hoss...

LOL very true.  I love Tina though.  I actually like a lot of variety.  I agree with Jason.  I think Tool is kinda out there.  Pearl Jam has musical talent.  They don't make a bunch of noise.  These bands these days Lord help us all.  :-)

As for RA.  She looks just fine with her makeup.  I love the way she has a special way to put it on.  She is one of a kind.  Gotta love that beautiful and one of a kind face.  :)  As for the IQ.  How in the hell do you test a horse for intelligence?  I think all of them are smarter than we are.  They don't fight all the time and bicker like people do LOL.  Love them ALL!  I bet RA and Zenyatta  both like Michael Jackson AND Pearl Jam.  They know good music.  Now back in the day Seattle Slew listened to The Beatles, Zeppelin and on and on.  Different generation of horses listened to different generations of music.  Oh Lord these poor horses today that don't listen to the stuff that has been around awhile.  God have mercy on their poor souls.  :)

Paula Higgins AND I think Zenyatta is "painting herself into the corner", as it were, I really think they will finish out in the Classic--VS STRONG EUROS/ RAIL TRIP/ EINSTEIN/mayne even Gio Ponti, why not, pro ride is practically turf---I'm thinkin' maybe better for BOTH to "exit stage left, for an "amped up" Beldame...no, I think Zenyatta WILL go in the Classic, at 1 1/4, vs a tough field....and Rachel's people are not afraid of pro ride, they're afraid of losing--and that's fair but just say it....

Caroline S--I agree with you, I think Zenyatta gets beat in Gold Cup--I'm NOT saying she doesn't have it in her to win the Classic, which will surely be a stronger field...You must remember they have fired bullets every time with her--Caroline, you had a thoughtful post, so I'd like you to think about this: Tiznow is the man for winning two cups, BUT--if they were both at Santa Anita it would not be as big---NOT Zenyatta's fault she came around at this time, they race vs Graded horses in Cali--everyone's invited/they duck NOBODY--IF the Cup were at Belmont she'd be traveling, no doubt....

Emilio: Right with you as it concerns Tool. Had Jason mentioned best/biggest band of the last 18 years instead of 25, I would have listed Tool. And while Tool was still somewhat underground through Undertow and Aenima, their last 2 albums have entered the Billboard Top 200 at #1.

Emilio, any chance you are a fan of the Deftones? They were heavily influenced by Tool and their sound on their last 3 albums has the art rock/prog-rock vibe of Tool. Maynard was a guest vocalist on the song Passenger from White Pony.

GUN BOW,

Very good response.  The case you make for Easy Goer, Sunday Silence and Spectacular Bid is excellent and informative so I wouldn't press the issue.  Suffice it to say that like so many potential greats Holy Bull's injury as a 4YO in the Donn cost him a few places higher up in the ranks of the immortals.

You are the man Gun Bow!

Curlin, how far has racing fallen when this time of year the leading contender is a mare or filly?

You mean like Miss Woodford, who, though before "Official" HOY, won consensus as HOY two years, in 1883-1884, Imp, 1899, Beldame 1904, Regret 1915, Twilight Tear the first filly to be "officially" voted Horse of the Year in 1944, Busher in 1945, Moccasin, 1965, All Along 1983, Lady's Secret 1986, Azeri 2002, or like Dance Smartly, Canadian HOY in 1988, or Zarkava European HOY 2008 or Ouija Board who won European HOY 2 years 2004 and 2006, or like those too many to mention who were in the mix for the running like the incomparable Dahlia in 1970 (champion against colts in USA, England, Ireland, France, Canada)??

Yeah, it's pitiful 2 fillies are in the top running. ;-)

Curlin,

If RA wins the Haskell, Alabama and Beldame, it's probably game, set, match as far as HOTY.

But if it's the Travers instead of the Alabama (which mekes more sense as the Alabama is 3 weeks after the Haskell; the Travers 4 weeks) it's even more of a slam dunk.

Here's a thought...and a real possibility too after the Haskell...the historic Woodward Stakes on Sept. 5th at Saratoga. Think about it, it's still at her supposedly favored 9 furlongs, she will get a real nice weight allowance against older males, and let's face it, there are no world beaters in the handicap male division this year. And Jackson loves to do things that haven't been done before or in a long time. And I can't remember a 3 yr old filly ever defeating older handicap males in a major stakes race. That would make her a legend...right up Jackson's ally.

Then finish the year with a win at Belmont against the older F&M's in the Beldame. If she wins the Haskell and Travers/Woodward it may force the connections of Zenyatta to finally leave "the Left Coast" and meet RA in the Beldame...it may be the only way Zen could possibly get HOTY over Rachel.

GUN BOW,

Just a few more afterthoughts on your post: you argument certainly highlighted the importance of showing up for the Breeder's Cup, a mistake that Jimmy Croll made with "The Bull" which cost him in the all time rankings (Jess Jackson should therefore beware with Rachel).

Also, there are some intangible/unmeasurable factors to be considered when assessing great thoroughbreds such as versatility in distance and running style, authority with which opponents are crushed and the way in which speedy challengers are turned back and out-and-out closers discouaged.  Holy Bull had all of that.  

dahoss3: Moccasin in 1965, yeah!  That's what I mean when I keep bringing up the 2YO fillies this year so far.  

And I'm running out to buy Vogue for the first time in years to see Rachel.  (I stopped buying it when I stopped being able to believe that I could ever get into any of the fashions they showed ... or even figure out HOW to get into  the fashions they showed).

See, Rachel Alexandra has managed to bring me back to the 80's, Jason.

GunBow...

Tool and the Deftones are not that good.  I remember well when Ozzy put the Deftones on his second stage.  Those guys had to pay to play.  Naaaaaaaaaaaa music sucks these days.  :)

What I don't get is how did we get from music that has a lot of talent to noise that anyone can do?  Oh well.  I guess that that is part of life.  

All the top horses, unless they have a legitimate excuse like an injury, etc., should compete in the Breeders Cup.  It was always intended as a series of races to HELP determine the N/A divisional champions and HOY……the playoffs of the sport so to speak.  And like other sports you can have a great season, but that alone doesn’t make you the champion.  You must still take the final step.

The fact that the BC is on synthetics this year is too bad, and might be construed as the Breeders Cup Committee shooting themselves in the foot, but unfortunately that’s the way it is.

If a horse doesn’t compete in the BC then its year end championship status SHOULD BE severely compromised.

That being said, and as much as I’ve been outspoken at times about Rachel, if she wins out on the schedule that has been planned for her, her chances for Horse of Year SHOULD NOT BE compromised based on what an exceptional year she would have had (if she wins out).

Yes Draynay, she would get my vote if I had a vote, even over Zenyatta.  The only possible conflicts then would be if Zenyatta remains undefeated and wins the Classic, or if Gio Ponti remains undefeated the rest of the year and wins ewither the Turf or the Classic (a possibility because of the similar surfaces).

Saratoga AJ,

    Thats what i've been saying about the Woodward. It gives her five weeks off, she'll get to test her elders at her best distance first, then if she wins she can go to the Gold Cup. If not let her take on older fillies and mare. I for one think she'd win.

   I was curious, Is anyone here entering The Breeders Cup Betting Challenge?, Sponsored by The Breeders Cup and the Oak Tree Racing Association...

Yes Curlin, I believe Rachel's 9 for 9 perfect year would be a better year than secretariat's 1973.  Line them up side by side at the end of the year and you will see you just can't get away from Secretariat's 3 losses against very average horses.

There are a lot of great comments. Zenyatta? Yes, she has beaten some older mares but I for one feel that she needs to take the boys on and move off of synthetics to get HOY.  I wish the Breeder's Cup would have not placed the races two years straight in California. Curlin would have won without a doubt had the race been on traditional dirt. Rachel, if she wins the Haskel again against the boys should be well considered above all others for HOY.

If Einstein should win the Classic, then he should be highly considered.  A grade 1 victory on all 3 surfaces would be hard to beat.  Besides, I am sure some no name horse from Europe will probably once again take the Breeder's Cup.  Yes, I am one that believes the Kentucky Derby does NOT need international flare.

THAT SLOW TURF HORSE gio ponti has no chance at HOY-silly TALK

What's slow or fast "Got To Do WITH IT"...Tina Turner.

Winning against class has everything to do with it.  That's what should determine HOY.

Rachel surely is HOY right now, but if Mine That Bird wins the BC Classic he is likely HOY. Probably the case for Zenyatta if she wins the Classic. And she is maybe a more likely Classic winner because of the surface. Rachel is a true phenomenon, so she really deserves the honor/.

So far (and we're only halfway through), Rachel does get my nod for HOY. However, I reserve my opinion until at least early fall. In my opinion, HOY should NEVER be just about the Breeders Cup, maybe plus another race. The BC should be the crown on a stellar career. I'm happy for whoever wins the Classic (or the turf equivalent), but if that horse hasn't hustled around beating males, older horses, other 3-year olds and so on, she (or he) is NOT a Horse of the Year candidate. I think Zenyatta was a bona fide candidate last year but, for the very reasons I mentioned, I was glad Curlin got the nod. He raced everywhere! Zenyatta had had a stellar campaign last year. This year not so. Now, it being only July, that could change - but as it stands now, I'd give Rachel the edge. All that said, I think Rachel has an excellent chance to beat all comers and earn HOY. And when it's all over, I may have as much egg all over my face as anyone else!

GunBow,

Yes the Deftones are a great band, and terribly underrated as they were a front runner in the nu metal movement.  It can be argued that Pearl Jam was the best overall to come out of the grunge era, and that Incubus came out on top in the long run from the late 90s nu metal era, as both those bands continue to sell out shows and sell records today.  Tool I dont consider part of a genre as they seem to be in a world of their own musically (Speaking in technical terms, there is not a commercial successful band out there who measure up to them on a musicianship level, these guys dont stay on the conventional 4/4 or 3/4 time signatures, they stretch the envelope going all over the place, so my hats off to them, they hit it big doing what they want to do, I mean Dream Theatre is excellent too but not a commercial success if anybody can catch what Im trying to say.     FYI for anyone on the west coast or plan on a trip in august out west, Pearl Jam and Incubus headline the Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival in San Francisco on August 28,  While Tool headlines Pomona Fairplex on August 22 with Linkin Park.

I have just finished ready most of this blog and I am shaking with anger at the audacity of trying to compare the greatest horses of all time (Ruffian and Secretariat). It just cannot be done. RA may prove someday to be greater than Ruffian but you cannot besmirched Ruffian's record. She gave her all every time she ran. She gave her LIFE because she had so much HEART. When RA shows me that much HEART then I will say she is better than RUFFIAN. Draynay you should not be allowed to speak RUFFIAN's name. It is a diservice to a FANTASTIC FILLY. I was 15 years old when she broke down and I still cry at the memory of this great filly going down while doing what she was bred to do and what she LOVED to do. She did not want to LOSE and that is what killed her.

 As for Mine That Bird being a FLUKE, Draynay. He will prove you wrong in the rest of his races. He gives it his all every time. The only time I saw him run a bad race was in the BC Juvenile. I am still not sure what happened there. Thanks to M Smith and all the rest that have defended this gallant, little gelding. He will prove all of you RIGHT. Go get them Birdman and RIP RUFFIAN.

  I wanted to say other things about Draynay but like Auntie EM as a christian I cannot say such things. I will let Mine That Bird speak for me in the rest of his races. Good luck Mike Smith and bring him home for me.

 I took care of MTB when he was just a little tyke running around and under his mom. I wiped his butt and nose when he was sick and I wish I could say that I knew he was going to win the Derby but alas I didn't. I must have missed the look of the eagles but I see it now.

 I am caring for a 09 filly right now that gives me goose bumps when I watch her galloping in her paddock with her mom. She may not amount to much but it this sport you never know. She is a PA bred by Siphon (BRZ) out of an unplaced daughter of Street Cry. She is a beauty.

 PS: One word of advice for Draynay, one thing I learned as a young boy is to respect my elders and you sir should respect the great horses that have blazed the tracks of the past and made it possible for us to appreciate the great horses of today even more. I love RA but you cannot compare her to Ruffian or Secretariat. It is like comparing apples and oranges  

First of all, one more vote for Rachel Alexandra taking HOY. I really don't add anything new here, nut just to explain my reasoning...

I disagree that the BC is the King or Queen making achievement for HOY honors especially when it is run on a synthetic. Jess Jackson has it quite right on that score. We should be breeding horses that can hold up on natural surfaces, and not changing surfaces to accommodate a weakened breed. In addition, there are no dirt races in the BC when it's at Santa Anita. There is only turf and turf-like.

Jason, I can't believe how easily you dismiss a Rachel Alexandra Haskell win. How many times does Rachel have to beat the boys to establish that she is better than they are to you? Have you seen how the Haskell field is shaping up? Belmont Stakes winner Summer Bird, Arkansas Derby winner Papa Clem, Long Branch Stakes winner Atomic Rain, and Tom Fool Stakes winner Munnings are among the headliners. No one was dismissing these horses prior to the Triple Crown. In fact, people were saying what a strong field compared to last year. But now apparently they are dismissed as "not exactly the strongest group we've ever seen."

And I think you are forgetting all too soon what a thrilling race for the ages her Preakness victory was. It was the way the race unfolded that still gives me goose bumps. That race was the gutsiest thing I ever saw in my life, and in my opinion, it catapults Rachel Alexandra not only to HOY but straight into Valhalla. She was tested early by a speed duel with none other than a very talented and fresh sprint Stakes Record holder whose obvious intent was to mix it up with her right from the gate. I don't care how they try to explain why the first thing that sprinter from the one hole needed to do was get out to nearly the middle of the race track to just happen to force the favorite from the outside position wide all the way around the first turn. It looked intentional, and I will always believe that it was intentional. She held off that fine sprinter and still got a couple seconds breather before holding off the breathtaking late run of the Kentucky Derby winner. She was tested every step of the way, and still bested all to become the first filly to win the Preakness Stakes since 1924. That one race takes her to new heights untouched and clean.

All the talk before the Mother Goose was how these fillies that put in big runs in a Classic against the boys are never the same in their next race, or maybe ever. Instead of regressing, Rachel Alexander smashes through the Stakes Record set by Lakeway, and smashes through the margin of victory record set by none other than the immortal Ruffian, without ever being asked to run. Last but not least, she nearly broke the Track Record set by Secretariat. Ruffian and Secretariat are the benchmarks by which great horses are measured. And Rachel did all while being eased up 200 yards before the finish line.  

Jason, you told Dray that times don't play a big role in selecting HOY. I doubt that very much. Why keep Stakes Records, Track Records, World records, etc., if they are meaningless. The answer is they mean a lot. Everything. The one thing I really do regret about the Mother Goose is that Calvin didn't just let Rachel finish the way she wanted to finish instead of easing her up. If that filly had smashed through Secretariat's Track Record, I think that would have been the check-mate move that would have tied up HOY.  

As far as racing with her own sex and age group, there will be fewer and fewer that will take her on, and racing against time and history will be the only opponent still standing. By racing against the record books she races against all the best fillies that ever ran in the same race, and every record setting horse that ever ran on the same track.

Jason is right that quite a few top 3 yr. olds have had their career's interrupted by lameness issues, and I love all of them. Quality Road, I Want Revenge, and The Pamplemouuse, and too many others to name have had to take time off or suffered career ending injuries. I wish they could all come back to soundness and eventually get to fulfill their promise. But the one thing that will always be lost to their credentials for year end honors is that they have already proven that they were not as durable as they should be. Durability should be a factor earning HOY.  .

These other horses you mention that are going strong seem fine horses indeed, but their achievements are within the normal range of upper class horses. They should be on the HOY list, and they should pull a few votes in recognition of those achievements but, but like Calvin Borel says, Rachel Alexandra is not normal.

I live in Saratoga, where RA is working out.  She's set for the Haskell.  I highly doubt her overrated trainer & owner will "sacrifice" her with 20 days rest to run the Travers.  They refuse to run poly.  They refuse to travel west.  They will, if Zen comes east, find some "excuse" why RA can't or wont't run ...like Jackson losing face.

Until she faces the Queen, she is simply a Princess, and princesses don't inheirit the throne by default.

You Go ZENYATTA!!!

To Draynay:  Come on!!! RA BETTER than Ruffian???  What kinda drugs you on???  She's got WAYYYY more to prove to make that claim.

PomDe Terre,

    What throne does she have? Certainly not HOTY, because as i remember correctly she didn't win it last year. She is only queen of her own division, the older fillies that is it. If she wants HOTY she has to work for it and take some risks. Running against the same fillies in the same easy races as last year doesn't count as risks. RA is not winning the crown by default she's taking the risks in order to get it, unlike others who refuse to go east or, what i'd like her to do, take on colts at all.

Minethatbirdfan makes one point I forgot to answer in my comments. Ruffian could be called a queen because she DID give her all. Rachel so far has only once really been asked; she's so superior to her peer group that she just romps. I think she will show that heart when asked but yes, what really determines class is what happens when the heat's really on. Ruffian showed us what she was: a champion to her core. I hope - I THINK - Rachel will do that too, but till she does no, I won't rank her above Ruffian either. Ruffian was just - IT!

Let me just say I have a great deal of respect for Ruffian and Secretariat and Go for Wand and Personal Ensign and others that are mentioned on this blog.  But unfortunately Rachel Alexandra is doing some things that these fillies and mares did and thus far she has proved more impressive with some of the things she has done.  Someone mentioned that a particular poster should not be able to mention Ruffian and Secretariat when talking about Rachel Alexandra.  Well let me say this "while you are telling that poster not to speak of them in the same breath, please remind Tom Durkin, The Associated Press, and numerous sports and horse racing writers who mentioned that Rachel Alexandra bested Ruffians record in the Mother Goose, and would have bested Secretariat's record if even allow to canter home any faster".  See records are meant to be broken, and comparions are meant to be made when dealing with impressive horses now that can be compared to those in the past. There is plenty of respect for the horses in the past, but there are also opinions about what is going on now that although it may upset some, everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

"Would have" is totally different from "has done". If you are comparing Rachel Alexandra to Secretariat, remember that Secretariat completed in ALL three legs of the Triple Crown (let alone win them), Rachel Alexandra did not and showed she was spent right after The Preakness. Doubtful she would have won by 31 lengths or so if she ran in The Belmont. (And who was that other horse they were comparing to Secretariat not too long ago and didn't even finish The Belmont?) I'm not saying Rachel Alexandra is not great. She's a great 3 year old and will probably get that award at the very LEAST at this point in the season. But she still has a ways to go before becoming immortalized.

But just like Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra has nothing left to prove against the fillies. It's time for BOTH to leave their cushy sex restrictions and put some beat-down on the boys. And they will if given the chance.

Zippy we all know Secretariat had a great Triple Crown Series but that was just 5 weeks.  What did he do the rest of the year?  He lost 3 times to very average horses and never won a G1 race on dirt after Belmont.  After Rachel wins the Haskell she will have more G1 wins than Secretariat on dirt.

Beating 3-year olds is fine. However, Secretariat won the inaugural Marlboro Cup against a field that included his stablemate, the 1972 Derby and Belmont Stakes winner Riva Ridge, top California stakes winner Cougar II, Canadian champion Kennedy Road, Onion, Travers winner Annihilate 'Em, and 1972 American Champion Three-Year-Old Male Horse, Key to the Mint. He won in 1:45 2/5 for 1⅛ miles, a world record at the time. It may not have been a G1 at the time, but that was a G1-caliber field.

Also, his last race would be against older horses in the Canadian International Stakes at Woodbine. It was the 2nd time in his career that he raced on grass and the first time he would be asked to go one and five-eighths miles. He won by 6 1/2 lengths.

She has yet to race against older, on turf, and maybe set a world record or two over 9 panels. Sure, she could do it, it's possible, but it has to be done before proclaiming any victory of some sort. That's why they still run the races.

I love both Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta.

Honestly, there is something about Zenyatta's style and carriage that just oozes regal.  And lest we forget her dressage movements before every race.

I am sure Rachel will be as memorable for her uniquely beautiful face and racing power.  

How lucky we are to be talking about two such magnificently talented champions.

As far as HOTY I think after what Rachel has just done signs and seals the honor......wow.....

I have to agree Ragsy, I can't see anyone taking HoY away from Rachel now.

WOW..I didn't know the hype on rachel has people drinking the kool aid. Comparison to Ruffian and Secretariat. Man oh man. This filly is good but she is nowhere near he great fillies or mares ever. How can the best horse in training (according to some of you) skip the horse racing showcase Breeders!?)

Some of you are just making the same excuses Jackson is making. Decades from now what will be discussed is

'yeah she won HOY but ducked the great mare Zenyatta'

or

'yeah she won HOY but ducked the best horses in the world'

she is nothing but hype!! lol