If Zenyatta runs in the Pacific Classic, Lady's Secret and the Distaff (I hate the new name!), that still won't be enough for HOY, in my opinion. Isn't the whole point of that award to be given to the horse that continuously proves itself against tough competition?

It's been very clear that Zenyatta can dust her sex whenever she wants (with the possible exception of RA, but since that won't happen it shouldn't even matter in this discussion). The next logical step would be to race her exclusively against males, and OUTSIDE California, where she doesn't need anymore conditioning. It's not like she's never run on SA's track before, or any Cali track; let's get real.  

The pacific classic, jockey club gold cup at Belmont, and then the BC classic would be an ambitious, HOY-blazing path if that's what the Mosses really want. Wouldn't she be given some consideration for HOY if she runs in (at least) the top three in the first two races, and wins the Classic?

Sorry to say it, but I am *over* Zenyatta. Was a big fan, but this 2009 "season" (that didn't start until the year was half over), is a joke, IMO

Moss has been quoted as saying he doesn't care for the synthetic surfaces...would those be the ones his mare has won 10 of her 11 starts on? In the same breath, though, they have no intention of traveling outside CA.

Sheriffs was quoted as saying they didn't care to ship her "this close" to the BC...and that quote was when the BC was still 5 MONTHS away. How fragile IS she? I guess substantially so, as they took her to L'ville and then SCR'd her hours before that race due to some drizzle, which cleared and the race was run over a fast track. Without Zenyatta.

Don't get me wrong...I am equally annoyed that Jess Jackson is avoiding the BC with Rachel. But at least, despite that, she's not having a ho-hum year facing Bel Air Sizzle, Dawn After Dawn, Brie Cat and the like...repeatedly. No offense to those horses, but I'd say that's hardly a challenge for Zenyatta, and makes her *accomplishments" pale.

I agree, Zenyatta has lost all chance for HOTY. I am also inclined to agree that her connections don't seem to care about a HOTY title, and just want to watch their horse go undefeated. That's certainly their prerogative.

But from a racing fan standpoint, it blows.

She went from being (in my eyes) a superstar, to a horse that can be filed under "We'll never know EXACTLY how good she was", because she hasn't faced anyone of note in over a year (not since Ginger Punch, really, although I feel obligated to note Life Is Sweet, too, who I am a fan of, and is no slouch), to prove it. And it doesn't appear she will before the curtain falls on her career. A career that COULD have been one for the ages.

Jason my sentiments exactly! Plus The Pac Classic will be vs MUCH easier than the BC Classic---just look at who showed up last year--Curlin and Europe! Also agree with you about their not needing HOY--What for? Doesn't increase her $$ value, then again so wouldn't a loss to Rachel--BUT--undefeated is something special--I think THEY should come to Zenyatta.....

Change the interview to Jess Jackson and :

"During the early stages of my interview with Jess Jackson earlier this week, two things became apparent to me right from the start: I wasn't going to get anything significant out of him regarding Rachel Alexandra's future, and there is very little chance that she will ever face Zenyatta."

Jerry said in your article, HE feels the Breeders Cup is where the final decision on champions is made.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that what it was initially aimed at? Helping to firm up the decision on Champions?

I don't like synthetics but as he said in your article:

"We didn’t decide that the Breeders’ Cup would be (at Santa Anita) again. We ran at Churchill Downs with Giacomo in 2005 on a speed-favoring track, and we were there with Tiago in the swamp at Monmouth Park "

We really don't know the plan for Rachel. They are picking and choosing her races just as carefully and really even though she ran in the MGS, at Belmont, that's nothing like the quarantine barn would be like at an event where the two met up and nowhere near as stressful as that or the Belmont. I bet JJ wouldn't want her there in that barn in a circus atmosphere either. Jerry had a bad experience with one of his, several others have too and really let it be known.

Agree with Jerry. Just enjoy Zenyatta's final four races. Just enjoy RA's final how many ever races.

Now, what IF MTB wins the WVA, Travers, BCC? WHAT THEN?

Before you wax philisophical about what your teacher said about 'IF', Jason. Just remember, all this STUFF you write about and we argue about is predicated on IF.

Odds are that she loses one of these filly races and completely destroys her legacy. She would actually maintain her popularity by finishing second to Rachel or the boys in the classic.

Hey Jason,

Yup I totally agree with Zen not doing enough if she follows your schedule to get HOTY.  I wish she'd come east though because then I might actually get to see her.  

I forget which article it was previously posted, but the Mosses are for SURE retiring her after this year?  There is not the slimmest chance she'd race again next year against a four year old RA?  Still want that showdown, o well.  Just want everyone to stay safe and sound ultimately.

It's a Friday!  Throwing that in there, just because.  Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Cheers,

Heather

Jason, I'm going to think like Shawn here for a sec. What if Rachel loses the Haskell and Zenyatta wins out, that would be 5 G1's this year. Now, what if horses like MTB or Einstein or Gio Ponti win scattered Grade 1's the rest of the year, I would think HOY would have to go to Zenyatta, agree or no??

I have jumped back on the STARDOM BOUND BANDWAGAN AFTER BASHING HER-SHE Handle Zenyatta in BC DISTAFF-BASE THIS ON SAME DAY COMparesions

Zenyatta's cushy in state of CA races will not guarantee her HOY, for that has already been locked up by Rachel! If Mr. Moss has such a good mare, why not test her to run with the males in her last four races? Oh, yeah, that's right, they want her to be coddled and protected before she retires! Sorry, with that in mind, the voters who vote for HOY will not pick her! Go Rachel A!!!!!!!!!

What if the Derby mud winner wins the Travers, BCC,... are you out of your mind?  The horse has won one race in the mud ALL year.  How about him getting another win before we talk about him for ANY awards.

Jason, Mr. Moss is another owner who just doesn't get it.  I doubt if anyone cares that Zenyatta could go undefeated.  The path she took was the easy path and now she is little more than a state champion.

Jason,

Ok except the Preakness, I just don't see how Zenyatta's wins are any less than Rachel's (against the girls). If SB beats Rachel this week that has to open up a whole can of worms cuz you HAVE to include SB in the conversation now, don't you?

True Jason, but she's 5. Look how careful they are with some of these 3 year olds and all the hip hip hoorays for Jess for running Curlin at 4????

She's a big mare, which, a usual benefit like if you're running against the boys starts to become worrisome too at this point.

UhOh Jason, the jinx! A rap on the knuckles by Sister Theresa and forgetting the 'IF' lesson.

NOTHING in horse racing is impossible, improbable maybe.

Man looking at Summer Bird right now and he looks AWESOME! Geez he's huge. All the jocks are turning to LOOK at him.

What if it rains and rains and becomes the swamp it was for the BC? Will Rachel scratch?

Dray, at least they tried the Belmont with MTB, something Mr. Jackson side-stepped. You have to give them that.

Zenyatta did whip Fastest plastic filly in Carriage Trail in BC DISTAFF last year.

Undefeated is special, but when you repeatedly face the same competition that you know are completely outclassed over and over, it kinda takes away some of that luster. RA may not be facing stellar fields, but at least she is trying to find competion outside her division. Jason if she skipped the Travers and went for the Woodward i wouldn't be disappointed, she'd be facing older horses and a win over them would be just as good a Travers win, well maybe not, but it wouldn't be a half bad subsitute. Now with my imagination running, if she then ran in the JCGC, she would've put togeather a strong case for HOTY, that is if she win or performs well in each. Just noticing but don't QR, RA, and MTB all race on the same weekend, just in different races and states? This seems to be happening a lot recently, where champions are lined up ready to run, but never on the same track.

On Zenyatta, the Pacific Classic wont be enough. The only way it will be is if Rail Trip shows up, enjoys the surface, but Zen still beats him, then he comes back and wins the Classic. The reason i say this is because if he performs anywhere near the way he did in the Gold Cup, it will take one heck of a horse to beat him, so if she does thats one point Zenyatta. Then if he goes on to win the Classic over a star studded field of Euros, Einstein, and possibly Gio Ponti, then just think of how that makes Zenyatta look. Now if Rail Trip is not entered or just looks like he hates the surface it's a whole different story, then it's not enough and Zen would need to go in the Classic to have any chance at HOTY.

Dray, I sent a friend over to chat up Rachel.

She thinks you're ugly and talk too much without ever saying anything. She's sure you're one of those dirty old men who's a stalker. She's scared and may ask Steve to hide her away to protect her from you.

Shawn,

    If your talking about next years Classic, i doubt RA will scratch. Did you see the FG Oaks? They were running in a river pretty much and she still whipped them. Mud is no problem for Rachel.

Hmmm, another 'owner' who just doesn't get it?

An owner who's trying to act in the best interest of his horse?

How many do YOU own Dray? Were you buying some up at the FTK sale?

Come on, telling an owner what to do with their horse is like someone who doesn't know you, trying to tell you how to raise your kid.

Jason,

    I thought you said you don't get riled up very easily, yet you'll be really mad if she skips the Travers. Just saying hot in my family means like really really mad. I mean i'd be disappointed, but not ready to blow the roof of my house off, lol.

Thanks Jason, just can't wait til next weeked, should be fun.

Steve S,

    CT freaked in that race and did nothing else after that. She is the definition of the word fluke. Zenyatta beat nothing spectacular in her.

given the way z is being handled this season makes me wonder just how sound she is

It's sad that RA v. Zenyatta is never going to happen.  I blame the Zenyatta folks for taking the easy road and hiding behind the Breeder's Cup being in California.  I hope it never happens on synthtic surfaces again.

Jason, I agree with you on Rachel in the Travers.  If they don't go there (especially if she wins the Haskell), I will be very wary of Jess Jackson as master sportsman/good for the horse racing game guy.

Zenyatta WILL WILL win HOY if SHE wins Pacific CLassic AND BC DISTAFF.

As I said before, she's a great horse but coddled. No BC Classic for her. Fillies and Mares which as I said, 60% of a $2,000,000 is nothing to sneeze at.

At some point while reading your columnn Jason, I was reminded of the words of Jack Woltz, expertly portrayed by John Marley,saying "Khartoum, Khartoum".

Don't ask me why. Deja vu perhaps?

If the voters essentially laughed at Zenyatta's resume last year when she was up for HOY last year, why should 2009 be any different?  Curlin was far from invincible last year and couldn't even manage a placing in the supposed 'championship' race.  Last year, Zenyatta went 7-for-7 with 4 G1s and 3 G2s, won on the dirt and synthetics, and beat Ginger Punch (twice), Music Note, Cocoa Beach, Tough Tiz's Sis (3 times), and Hystericalady (twice).  So what makes this year different?  Her 2009 schedule is EASIER and less demanding, yet full of primarily the same races.  A potential Pacific Classic win going to really matter?  Against who? A motley crew of glorified allowance horses like we saw in the Hollywood Gold Cup?  The only way she should even be considered for HOY is if she wins the Classic.  Connections shouldn't be rewarded for a campaign like hers.  

Ok, why is it that when the Moss' coddle their filly they are said to be do what they think is the best for the horse, yet when JJ says he doesn't want to ship all the way to run on synthetics he's ducking Zenyatta. You people can't have it both ways, either they are both ducking each other or they are both doing what they think is best for their horse. I'm inclined to believe the latter option.

Steve,

    There is no way the Pacific Classic will get her HOTY over what RA has done already. Winning her last two against fillies by a total of over 39 lengths, winning 3 grade 1's in a row, and a Classic win in the Preakness.

IMO Moss just lost HOY for Zenyatta.

No way I would consider her if she keeps running against the same horses she has beaten over and over again.

Too bad but that's the way it is. (Walter Cronkite, RIP)

I agree that the Pacific Classic is probably not "different enough" to get HOY. At this point Zenyatta would have to go to the BC Classic and do extremely well to get better than female divisional honors.

When Rachel ran in the Fair Grounds Oaks in the slop, and even at Churchill as the wet track was improving, she had different connections. She can run in the mud, but the new connections haven't faced that scenario yet.

NO LDP, I meant WHAT if RA scratches from the Haskell.....THAT is where it's been raining and Monmouth is where the BC was held in the swamp, saw it also Jerry mentioned in Jason's article.

Rachel, as Jason said, aint runnin next year and the BC is in my Old Kentucky Home in 2010.

As far as those who vote on the Eclipse awards? Jason (who is still a voter I assume?)said he didn't place much on the awards VOTED on.

Let us proceed with a Stonach points per race, ranked by importance decision on HOY etc.

All the rest of you tempting fate? Remember the argument last year? Remember what happened and how the one horse didn't even run and the other one more or less just showed up?

Yet still won HOY?

If you own TB race horses you know anything CAN and probably WILL happen.

I heard from a reliable source that the "something different" is they're going to enter her in a greyhound race in Dubuque, Iowa the second Saturday in September.

Good point, LDP, about all the really top horses racing at different tracks every weekend.  I wish MTB was going to the Haskell.  That would've made it even better than it already looks to be.  

I am with LavasLegend on this and agree Peppers Pride II and her 2009 season is sad to say the least.  There is no reason to discuss the horse again. For all you Derby mud winning fans can we do the what if... IF the horse wins another race this year !  When Big Drama runs away from him in the West Virginia Apple Cider Stakes where can he go from there to win a race ?  When you see what Rachel does to Munnings and the other Bird horse there will be no doubt who HOY is.  Go Rachel Go !

I am a huge Zenyatta fan. She's such a physically imposing animal and a pleasure to watch - but honestly I'm pretty disappointed that her connections are taking such a soft path with her. Re-affirming my belief that she was laid off for so long due to an undisclosed injury. (speculation on my part but IMO a horse of that calibur wouldn't be laid off for that long without a really good reason) I truly think that retiring undefeated should be something special - but her competition isn't what it was last year. The connections (IMO) are really tarnishing her accomplishments by not showcasing their amazing horse by running her in races that would add to her legacy...

the only plus side of this is I get to watch her Aug 9th & B.C! :) Just really wish there would be an epic showdown with Rachel!

It's pretty clear from this interview that Zen's connections don't give a hoot about Hoy, and good for them. Coddled or not, at least her racing was carefully planned out for her well being. She is a beautiful mare,  and I agree with Jason, that after she has given so much in her racing years, they just want her last races to be enjoyable. What's so wrong in that? At this point, I would hope that the main goal would be for her to retire sound. My wish would be for her to enter dressage even if for a little while. For a magnificent creature such as herself to be relegated to the "mommy circle" so quickly is a shame. She's only 5, give her a few more years in a second career, there will be plenty of time for her to start dropping foals after that. As for the other beautiful filly RA, let's just hope she makes to five yrs racing and still sound.

With HER POINTS FROM LAST YEAR and aPACIFIC CLASSIC(BEST OLDER MALES) win THAT WOULD VAULT HER TO THE TOP

BEATING BEST BEST OLDER MALES WOULD BE ENOUGH and stay UNBEATEN-A TAll ORDER BEATING OLDER MALES

So ART:

What are you trying to say?  Do you like Zenyatta or not?

Sweet Terchi: correct me if I'm wrong.  Is Zenyatta not a RACE horse?  If your whole point is to "keep her safe" by not running her, why not just have her hang around in your back yard?

Sound is nice.  If she was just a pet.

And if so, why complain when she doesn't get HOY?  Or even, this year (depending on how the year plays out) even best mare?

And Ted: she might not win the greyhound race because from the little I've seen, those puppies really take off at the beginning and never look back!

Also, how does she feel about rabbits?

(...oh no....now I've started the "rabbit" discussion again!)

what im still wondering is...

why the HECK is jackson not going to let Rachel go to Santa Anita when he KNOWS she's won over Poly before???

LDP you are under the assumption that there is only one path to greatness.  Rachel is on a path no filly has ever been on and does not need to race in California.  You will see her next year at the Breeders Cup.  All Rachel has to do is win the Haskell and Travers or Haskell, Alabama and Beldame and her year is over.  She wins HOY and takes a few months off getting ready for next year.  There is no reason for her to chase the California State Poly Champ she doesn't need her! Rachel is taking on and beating boys !

As both girls already are astronomically valuable and will be retired to their owner's breeding shed, neither can increase her or her offspring's value any more.

In my perception, the Moss's continue to race her simply for their own pleasure. I personally don't believe there are any soundness issues or they would have retired her to make baby Zenyattas. I also don't think HOTY is a huge deal to them. I perceive they are satisfied simply with watching her go.

JJ on the other hand is racing Rachel both for his own pleasure and to create a legacy IMO. That seems important to him. It will be interesting to see what races they decide upon following the Haskell.

It's been terrific fun watching both, and I no longer care if they face each other. I hope they both win out and we get to say we saw it.

MOSS will stay in his comfort zone- Zen will never race against males any way.

mz,

It seemed unorthodox to me too.

I finally figured out why Dray is all talk.

He doesn't want to have a horse because he'd be bashed about EVERY decision he made for the horse, he'd have his leading money winning and BIGGEST RACE KY DERBY winner, being disrespected by people.

Oh on second thought, throw the one to three million in there that it takes to buy and keep one going at that level and TALK is all he can do.

Jason: Any chance that the "different" is the turf for Moss' mare? She's out of a Kris S. mare.

Zenyatta's connections piss me off. They don't even experiment with her. They actually need to find a field of horses that will be TOUGH to beat. They can't just hide her from such great oportunities that she can take.

Really? Even IF Zenyatta beats older accomplished males in the Gr.I PC then either takes the BCC or Distaff and stays undefeated,that still won't be good enough?..Wow!

But yet,RA defeats so-so 3yo colts in the Preakness,and If..IF she beats so-so 3yo males in the Haskell(forget about the Travers,she ain't going),then wins-out vs. Filly/Mares or beats the sorry bunch of older males back East,she's HOY with-out going to the BC or winning @ 1 1/4m?..makes no sense to me.

ALL she has to do is win the races you named?

What Path is she on? No committment from her camp past the Haskell, which was won by Serena's Song, not that long ago, who also won the Beldame.

It becomes more obvious every day that you really don't know what you're talking about.

An owner/trainer may have that in the back of their minds but to lay out a program that far ahead??

Also, all Silver Charm, Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, Funnycide, Charismatic, even BB etc HAD to do was win ONE race, and they would have gone on to TRUE immortality.

You in all of your first hand knowledge are saying the filly has to win 2 or 3 races (including that big nothing of a Travers)and will go on to be the greatest ever, plus run back next year?

Knowing the 'path she's on'?  Are you Jess' long lost son he nor any of us have ever met?

The HoY voting is not even close...good luck to anyone thinking Summer Bird will beat Rachel...NO!

When she wins the Haskell, it will be the greatest seven race stretch in a year that any female horse has had...EVER!

As for Zenyatta, if she doesn't run in the BC Classic, then I would have to rate her behind what Personal Ensign accomplished, whether she is undefeated or not.

Tim G: Don't waste your time trying to figure Dray out. For someone who professes to be an athlete, he sure has little respect for others. Athletes respect other athletes, human or equine. Belittling others proves he never needed to wear a cup. I suggest indifference.

I would love to see Zenyatta race against RA just to her prove to all of her critics how awesome she is. But I understand her owner wanting to enjoy her last few races. It was very disappointing that she didn't win HOY last year. I've wondered since she's won all of her races and knows it, how she would react if she lost.

Carlos in Cali... Rachel goes 9 for 9 setting records along the way and blazes a path no filly in history has done and you can't figure out why she would win HOY ?  Let me put to you very simply.  She is a few wins away from the greatest 3 year old filly season ever.

Ted: do they make horse sized muzzles?

Carlos in Cali: of course it's an east coast conspiracy.

And Jason: thanks for getting back to the horse racing in your blogs.  I was getting tired of the  discussions about the wussey 4 down NFL.

After watching 40 years of horse racing this discussion seems a little silly to me.

Are there really that many people that think Zenyatta would beat Rachel Alexandra if they were to meet?  I have a lot of respect for Zenyatta...she reminds me of Forego, but just as I never would have bet him vs. Secretariat or Spectacular Bid, I would give her little chance to beat Rachel Alexandra.

In Rachel Alexandra, we are seeing true greatness people!

For you former Pyro fans out there, he's running in his first race for Godolphin at Saratoga opening day.

134  in a 10 card race on a Wednesday, including 13 2 y.o. fillies in a stakes? Now that's impressive!

MIKE S, you have a filly to pull for in the Schuylerville,

HOT DIXIE CHICK (you're the guy who's a big fan, right?). As for me I'll be pulling for another!

Well said steve.

Just as an owner and a life long race tracker it's hard to read that garbage from him. He seems to think the Dutrow school of trash talking is something to emulate. Guess we see where that gets a person in the longrun huh?

As far as the cup? Guess Shawn trapped him on that in the other blog. He ran 'girls track' with Bill Lewis as his coach....

You're right though. Like the other horses or trainers or athletes? Even in jealousy we don't bash them for their on race track, on field, court etc accomplishments.

Yeah,but those last few wins will be vs. who exactly?.  RA should be heading to the BC no matter what. JJ is just jaded from Curlin's butt kicking last year.He ran his race and still lost,the surface was not a factor. Look,both Cocoa Beach & Musical Note ran extremely good races against Zenyatta in the BC 1st time on synthetics last year.And I would think RA is a tad-bit better than those 2 top class fillies,right?..simply put,to be the best you have to beat the best.Show Up!

Hey Jason: in my defence, the CFL only has 3 downs!!!

And I have to say that I used to like the Baltimore Colts because their QB and running backs looked really good in their uniforms.  So does that re-instate me?

Interesting reading all the comments and speculation here.  What I really find interesting is the simple fact that we are talking about two female horses. I love both of these horses and what they have accomplished.  The more I see of Rachel, the more I think she is a freak (and I mean that in the most postive way) and if she continues her winning ways, the HOY honors and the term "superstar" will be justified.  I have just as much respect for Zenyatta and in IMHO she is one of the most beautiful horses that has ever set foot on the track.  For those who take issue with her win streak, I say again, if it was as simple as finding soft spots them you'd see a lot more horses with those kind of streaks don't you think.  

Zenyatta will follow Azeri's path and end with the Classic.  Few fillies try it and Z could be the first to win. She'd be the fav for HOY if she wins, regardless of RA's accomplishments (K.Oaks, CCA Oaks, Preakness, Haskell?, Beldame? (or Travers??), Super Derby?).  They still might meet in the Clark, or a new filly race on the undercard (call it the Winning Colors or Genuine Risk).  What about a match race on Thanksgiving Day at Churchill or the Fairgrounds? That might get televised in-between football and stir up some publicity for the sport.

Oh boy, I totally agree with Draynay's comments below and I think my head is going to explode.  

*******************************

Dray said: I am with LavasLegend on this and agree Peppers Pride II and her 2009 season is sad to say the least.  There is no reason to discuss the horse again. For all you Derby mud winning fans can we do the what if... IF the horse wins another race this year !  When Big Drama runs away from him in the West Virginia Apple Cider Stakes where can he go from there to win a race ?  When you see what Rachel does to Munnings and the other Bird horse there will be no doubt who HOY is.  Go Rachel Go !

Shawn P, do you watch races outside of the triple crown.  Like many have said, the FG Oaks was run in the slop, and the only thing that touched her was the water falling from the sky.  

Jason, do you think next year they will send Racheal over to Dubai, like JJ did with Curlin.

When they do send her to the breeding shed,I can't imagine Zenyatta would be a great success. Big mares usually don't make good broodmares and there's no runt like Northern Dancer to cross with.

Tim G you seem upset. Let me share with you what is going on so you know.  Depending how the Haskell goes will determine where Rachel goes next.  They are leaning towards the Alabama and Beldame figuring beating males twice is enough.  However, I am hoping for a Haskell - Travers combo but Jackson may want to wait until next year for 1 1/4 but it will be tempting there is about a 1 in 5 chance.  After she crushes them in the Haskell she has 3 weeks off before facing females in the Alabama.  That sets her up for a 5 weeks rest heading into the Beldame and facing older horses in October.  After that its off to the fields to rest and relax until next year !

mz, where on earth did I post that I would complain if Zen did not get HOY? And where did I post "not to run" her? Keep her safe? Yes,with well thought out races.  At this point she deserves it. Plus she would be more than welcome in my back yard any time.

Obviously none of you have respect for an amazing horse like Zenyatta.  No one is perfect, but Zenyatta is.  She will win the rest of the races in her career and against the boys.  RA isn't taking a chance on the synthetics so no one can say Zenyatta doesn't take chances.  She will dominate and become HOY at last even though she deserved it last year! Mr. Moss is a great owner and no one should give him a hard time for keeping his horses safe and contributing to the sport!

mz, by the way, safety and well being of the horse looms large in my mind right now. After seeing Mi Rey flounder and flop his way to the finish line on his broken leg, even after all these years, a sight like that is hard to see, for me any way.

Steve from St. Louis: RUNT!!!!!!!  Who you calling a runt????

(My goal was to make a couple of million dollars and buy a son or daughter of the Runt before I was 30 ..... I'm WAAAAYYYYYY behind on the millions side and the 30 side)

But don't you go badmouthing my boy!

And Jason: I am presuming that you have disqualified Draynay?  If not, PLEEEZZEEE, do you really have to go on holiday?

Sweet Terchi: she probably eats a lot.  

(and I'm sorry, but it's Friday and I'm tired and this blog is about the most fun I can have right now.  Sad, isn't it?)

Hey Jason, i think you read my mind on this one , I have been predicting this path for Zenyatta for a little while. I agree they have decided to let HOY go. I think they just want the season to end. PT

I dont think she is going to go in the classic, if she remains unbeaten , they wont want to spoil it , and with the Brits being so strong, they will do the easy thing

Jason: You well know some here are more than qualified to blog in your stead, but I'm suggesting we all take a week off to show the powers that be at B-H that we're here because of your talent and personality. In your honor, I'll be gone until you're back. See you on the 3rd.

Dave... The new track in Dubai is "plastic".

Tiznowbaby...I agree with you completely on your assessment of the Mosses and JJ.

I am over the Zenyatta camp at this point. They have been so guarded with her this year that she'd have to do something tremendous in her last 4 starts to have a shot at HOY.

Big assumption, but if either of the "Birds" doesn't step up in the 2nd half of the year and Rachel wins the Haskell, Ruffian and Beldame (for a total of six G1 wins including the KY Oaks, Preakness, and Mother Goose), that will trump Zenyatta's year unless...

Zenyatta's campaign looks like: Hirsch, Pacific Classic, Goodwood, then Distaff/Classic. That would give her 5 G1 wins. At least then she'd have beaten males twice too in G1 company, and then won the definitive race for distaffers (or defeated the best US and European males if she goes in the Classic).

A lot hinges on what Rachel does in the Haskell. If she wins it, then I think Zenyatta has to beat males at least twice too.

And just to ponder even further, if it turns out they're at a stalemate post-BC, then I wonder if either camp considers the Clark in November at Churchill...

Can't wait to see how this all plays out.

Jason, have a great time on your vacation!!  :)

Larissa, Yes!! Zenyatta is perfection!!

MZ: Bad mouthing? That runt winning the Derby is what got me into horse racing! When I was hired by the Racing Form 30 years ago, I thought I died and went to heaven. If we all put our money together, we can maybe get a daughter of Giant's Causeway (got to have some of that Secretariat tail-dam blood).

Larissa, obviously you didn't read all the comments? NONE of us have respect for Z?

Re-read please.

Draynay, Me upset? Not at all. Just sick of those who know nothing telling all the rest of us how it 'really is'.

I know for a FACT that you have no idea what Jess is thinking. He may tell everyone one thing but do another and he plays his cards pretty close to the vest as well.

Everyone knows what a rumor mill the race track is and it's STILL hard to figure out what any owner will do.

Add the trainer into the equation and it's all a big game we play.

Jason, you're right, he's weak. He's setting up all of these maybe, what if, could be, should be, how about scenarios.

With no definitive backup or inside knowledge, just wishful thinking to prove himself right!

Well if wishes were wings, pigs would fly.

AHA! I just noticed that Stardom Bound is now pointing for a return in the BC Ladies Classic! Watch out Zenyatta, she's back!!!

Seriously, Sweet Terchi, I am not making fun of horses breaking down -- that's always a devastating and terrible thing.  I do believe, however, that if the Moss's decided to keep Zenyatta in training this year, they should have expanded her horizons and taken on some challenges -- like racing outside of her comfort state.  Otherwise, they should have retired her last year. That's my point.

Jason: may I suggest a vacation detour towards Del Mar... Aug 1st. is their annual Micro-brewery Festival w/ local bands jamming throughout the festivities.Just a suggestion knowing how much you enjoy life's essentials: i.e., Music & Brews  :}

Originally I thought if Rachel won the Haskell and either Travers or a big filly race or two Moss would have to bring Z east to meet Rachel if he's looking for HOY.  But now I'm thinking if Rachel wins those races Z will just stay out west in the filly races and go undefeated.

Z will have her unbeaten streak.

Rachel will probably have Horse of the year.

AND THE ONLY LOSERS WILL BE THE US.

Jason:

Don't knock the CFL....That is where Dray's beloved Joe Kapp and Waren Moon played at one time.

Jason:

Get you-know-who as your guest blogger.  He is such an expert on anything your blog would suddenly be so diverse you wouldn't get your job back.

Dave, aren't you the late Dave the Draynay Fan?

Do I watch anything besides the TC?

Do you READ?

I've mentioned race tracks that I've been to from Del Mar to Saratoga and everything in between. I've mentioned going to the night races at CD.

I was dragged to the track from the time I was a few weeks old to watch our horses run.

I KNOW these guys you all 'talk' about on here. Some of them live right by me.

My comment about the rain? If it rains buckets like it was earlier this week (sheets of rain) who knows?

Jess now owns the filly and she will be running against colts.

Never say never with Mr. Jackson not beyond his scope of thinking to not run her.

Jason, I and others suggested Gun Bow start blogging on the Alliance, everyone got upset because they thought I was beating her up. But meant the responses got lost in the comments.

Maybe she's one of those who writes rebuttals? Like some lawyers?

Or maybe she's like all the rest of the REAL race trackers going up to the Spa for the opening weekend?

Or like you, going to what tropical island this year?

Thanks Tim G. Still a Pyromaniac here.

Why does Zenyatta have to race against the boys in order to prove herself worthy for HOTY consideration? No boy has ever had to prove his worth by racing against the girls. There's a fundamental unfairness going on here.

Steve from St Louis:

Quit sucking up to Jason

and also:

Who are you calling runt???  That horse had bigger you know whats than most of us on this Blog.

Zenyatta is the kind of horse this sport needs -- older stakes horses, not doped up 3-year-olds gone before we know them.

We will be at Del Mar Aug. 7 and 8m destination vacation -- our regular summer trip -- from PNW. We stay downtown, catch a ballgame, spend a lot of money.

As soon as we realized we would miss Zennie by a day, we extended our vacation and extra day and bought tickets for Del Mar for the CH.

Seen her run twice in person -- CH last year and Breeders Cup. Wouldn't miss the chance to see her again.

Personal Ensign DID NOT travel to West Coast to face off with Winning Colors--The DERBY WINNING THREE YEAR OLD FILLY went East to face her undefeated elder--just like they should with Rachel! Rachel is a fine filly, she's beaten up on nothing in very fast time, just like Easy Goer, everyone's talking about HOY like that's the Holy Grail...Go out West and do your duty as a three year old, go to the undefeated horse's domain, just like they had to do with Winning Colors, and prove your mettle---if she's all that they would go in a heartbeat, I mean Team Zen travels East if the Cup is there, no problem--If the Breeders Cup IS what it is SUPPOSED to be, then DO YOUR "DUTY" and show up!---Otherwise, strip the Cup from the West and hold it back East every time! I would hope if Zen beats older males at 1 1/4, Rachel would at least have to try better at 1 1/4....

No problem Alex. Hey aren't you the one who said they were going over to Hattie's to get the chicken and spicy slaw sandwich?

Actually all of those on Restaurant Row are pretty decent.

I'm still amazed at the card they have. Really bodes well for the new purse increase structure they have!

Lets see how the attendance and handle (especially) go, fingers crossed.

Is anyone else close enough to go to the Haskell?  I'm thinking of going, excited to see RA.  Never been to an American racetrack before, should be a blast.

Cheers,

Heather

I'm really late to this string - but let me add my two cents.

Agree- Zenyatta's unlikely to win HOY if she sticks to a CA campaign - even as projected by Jason.  I am disappointed they will not bring her out of state.  But how often did Personal Ensign run out of NY?  I know she did travel from time to time - but wasn't she pretty much a NY gal?  It didn't diminish her standing - but it didn't get her HOY, either.  

As for Rachel - she is the golden girl, and deservedly so - but what happens if she runs up against a refreshed and retuned and healthy Quality Road?  Even Dray can't say that QR wasn't a top tier Derby contender.  And Pletcher loves to play spoiler.  Not sure if they'd meet - but crazier things than Rachel losing have happened in racing.

And if Rachel loses?  I don't see a HOY in her immediate future, either.  Zenyatta might just start looking eligible, forcing Jackson to reconsider his aversion to Santa Anita if she would lose or go off form.

Crazier things have happened, as I said.

In the meantime, I'm rooting for MTB at the WV Derby.  But I agree he's up against it if Big Drama runs a good race -the two styles of running couldn't be more different - and speed tends to hold.  But it will be a good race and tune him up for the Travers.  

How pathetic, reading people's "cases" for a horse to no-show the Breeders Cup and still win HOY! Hey, I know! Maybe Dutrow's nice mare can stay back East and snag the female Eclipse! She, too is having a better year than Zen, funny how the fat egos think when the shoe is (finally) on the other foot--for ONCE, it seems, there is a QUESTION of "who travels"--if a West Coast horse were to boycott the Breeders Cup because it were to be held at Belmont, ya think the writers would be giving THEM a pass? Ya think??!!

Rachel vs. Quality Road in the Travers would be very a great race!

Laz: First of all, Northern Dancer was the size of a quarter horse, barely 15 hands. His well-balanced confirmation endeared him to breeders despite the fact he was small in stature. Nothing disparaging there. As far as "sucking up" to Shandler, he's the reason so many return to this site. Is there anything wrong with a compliment? I enjoy his work. Is that kissing up? Maybe you should kiss off.

Right On Jason,Enjoy! Hope it's not raining though.

Well,I've done my handicapping/advanced wagering for tonight's Del Mar card. My best bets: Race2-#3De Car Guy @ 3/1...Race3-#1Unbridled Meeting @3/1,#3-Repo @ 8/5. Chalky,but Walther Solis & Doug O'Neill have been killing it with the 2yo's, EX.Box,pound them!.....Longshot play: Race7-#1 I Want My Money(literally),@ 8/1,looks live w/Pedroza on the rail,hustling.He's gone,w2w.

OK,now we're outta' here,going to watch my Dodgers route the Fins'. Thee Tail-gate isa' calling!!  Good Vibes All.

People make a big deal that Peppers Pride has the longst win streak ever. Who cares? Its a joke. Zenyatta has raced out of Cali once (did beat Ginger), and won Ladies BC(on synthetic on her track). Not much else to talk about. Rachel has 6 wins on 6 tracks, and beat the boys. Can't even begin to comapre the 2, Zenyatta is a distant 2nd.

     Jason, I think your prediction is spot on regarding Zenyatta.  I also have the utmost respect for Moss and Jackson for doing what THEY think is right by their horse.  Zenyatta has nothing to prove to anyone, Hopefully she finishes her career undefeated and enjoys the rest of her life.  IMO, Being undefeated is more memorable then getting a HOTY title.  Regardless if you think her path has been easy, Anything and everything can go wrong in any given race, upsets always happen, except with Zenyatta, So, No path is easy.  I love both of these incredible filly's, Of course, I would love to see them meet, but, It is not going to happen.  Call me crazy, But I still think HOTY title is still anyone's guess. Yes, If the voting was today, Rachel would win, Hands down, But, It seems everyone is forgeting what an incredibly insane year it has been, Injuries have been everywhere, Does anyone really think the rest of the year will be injury free for the top contenders?  Of course, I hope I am wrong, But the odds are probably that I am right.  I still am high on Summer Bird, No dis-respect to Mine that Bird, But if Summer Bird shocks the world and beats Rachel, Then he has an outside chance at taking home the HOTY title...

    Enjoy your Vacation Jason!, A real vacation would be a week free of reading Dray's comments...

    Go Pyro...

Cape May is beautiful this time of year.  Be sure to stop in Ocean City for caramel corn on the way down.  Question:  Why do so many on here refer to Jess Jackson as "Mr. Jackson?"  Is it because he is rich and they feel inferior to him?

From now on I would request that the members of this board, when referring to me, use "Mr. Ted from LA."

I am so over Zenyatta, and the Breeders Cup, and horse racing in general. I used to go on this site 10 times a day. Now, maybe once a week. I haven't been to track all year.  Synthetics are a joke.  The BC this year will mean nothing (again).  Zenyatta's races will mean nothing - they might as well retire her now.  I'm boycotting Zenyatta, and the Breeders Cup, and Jerry Moss, and maybe even the Police.  The only races I care to watch now is when Rachel Alexandra runs.  And oh yeah, Zenyatta doesn't stand a chance against her, which is why Jerry Moss is punking out.

Brooklyn,

Who cares? Lets see, Baffert, the Hall of Fame director, trainers all over the country.  All of them said it's tough to win 5-6 races in a row in this day and age even for the cheapest claimers. She wasnt' that and she won her owner a pocketful of change.

He was a guy who admitted he didn't have enough money to play at the top of the game, pay the $75 per horse per day plus. So he did what was doable for HIM.

Why this continued need to belittle others to build your own choice up? Think steve from SL mentioned that people seem to NEED to do that a couple times.

The good ole boys club? The 'envy' situation? Grow up kids.

Matthew W the facts are when Rachel wins her final 3 races she will complete on of the greatest 3 year old campaigns in history. She will do this all before the Breeders Cup even comes around. She has been to numerous states and tracks around the country.  If Mr. Jackson has one track he would rather avoid I support him 100%. No matter what you think or say the Breeders Cup is just one race. HOY looks at the entire body of work over the year and Rachel's year will go down as one of the best in history.

Mr Ted from LA (who's not really from LA),hmm sounds kinda like an x rated actor.

Manners. I sometimes refer to some by their first name if I forget I get reminded.

Southerners are taught to say yes maam and no maam, yes sir and no sir and always call their elders Mr, Ms, Miss or Mrs.

Now SOME elders we have other names for, most aren't repeatable on here.

I agree mostly with LavasLegend. Zenyatta lost all chances at HOY (she would have to win the BC classic not the Ladies Classic to win HOY. I doubt very much that she will run in the BC Classic). I think she could have been the next Ruffian but we will never know. She shipped East and did not run (in a field I beleive she could have beat even with the speed bias). She could have stayed on the East coast & run another race if she didn't like the one at Churchill. She would have had plenty of time to recover. Her connections are over protecting her. They are aiming at passing Personal Ensign's undefeated record. A record Personal Ensign earned with such victories as defeating Winning Colors in the "mud" by a slight margin. "If" RA wins the Haskill (i'm not so sure she can but i'll route for her anyway)she doesn't have to run the Travers to get HOY. All she would have to do would be to defeat older fillies in a race or two & she would have a pretty good shot, even if she lost one of the two races against older fillies.

Beth S is my new HERO !!! Beth... a filly running 148 is not going to be taking on boys. She is right where she belongs a undefeated poly specialist.

Brooklyn Steve,

    Umm, Let's see, Obviously you don't care that the Desert God mare, Pepper's Pride, Has the world record for most consecutive victories of ALL-TIME. You say "Who cares?", Well, I believe Joe Allen and Joel Marr care, I believe 2000 Horse of the Year, "Tiznow" Cares.  If going 19-0 is so easy, Answer me a question, How many others have gone 19-0?, Not even mentioning her earning's of $1,066,085, Clueless...

Beth S.,

    Jerry Moss punking out?, Seriously?  I don't get it, Zenyatta will be running in the Breeder's Cup, Regardless if in the Distaff or Classic, She will be there, She is Undefeated, She is five years old, So, Moss is supposed to appease the general public and do what they want rather then what is best suited for his filly?, Talk about selfish...

Dray,

   When are you going to realize times and stats don't mean a thing?, As long as you cross the line first, That is all that matters, Zenyatta's style and the way Mike Smith rides her, Times are meaningless, They win, That is a bigger stat then anything you can come up with...

I think it hurts Zenyatta's legacy that she hasn't come East, certainly in the eyes of many racing traditionalist.  

Let's face it, the traditional major races are all on the east coast. ALL the TC races, the Travers, Jockey Club, Whitney, Woodward, Met Mile, Oaks, Beldame, Alabama, Champagne, etc. The oldest and most revered tracks and stakes races are all out east. Churchill, Saratoga, Pimlico, Belmont, etc. If you know your racing history you will see that all great west coast horses had to come east to prove themselves at one time or the other. The East Coast stakes races have always been worth more weight than the WC races, even with the advent of the BC.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is just the way it is and has been from the beginning of racing. I'm spraining my brain trying to think of a GREAT (and I mean really great) horse that did not win a major East Coast race and I'm drawing a blank right now. (A little help please)

I don't think if Curlin had won the Hollywood Gold Cup and Pacific Classic and then lost the BC he would have been horse of the year. However races like the Whitney and JC Gold Cup carry a lot more weight with many of the Eclipse voters. (Trust me I know). Remember Mineshaft skipping the BC after winning the major New York handicap races. Remember Holy Bull.

Both horses ignored the BC and still were voted HOTY after outstanding East Coast campaigns. West Coast campaigners are rarely afforded that luxury.

Rachel's connections know that all she has to do is win the prestigious east coast stakes and HOTY is secure. We've seen it all before.

I'm not trying to belittle Zenyatta's accomplishments by any means, but the racing tradition is what it is. And her campaigns have been very light in terms of the standard for an all time great runner. UNDEFEATED in horse racing is not really that big of a deal. Man o War, Citation, Secretariat, all the greats were beaten.

If you are not a racing fan you've never heard about Colin or Personal Ensign or Peppers Pride. I really believe Zen connections are preoccupied with maintaining her unbeaten record and in doing so denying her the opportunity to showcase all her talent. Moss and Sheriffs are like comedians who badly need some new material. This act is getting old. Milady, Vanity, Hirsch, Lady Secret, Distaff. We've seen it all before. Moss realizes that and he's trying to change things up a bit; but if you talk to Sheriffs, you would find he's not too keen about doing anything new. She would have been unbeatable in last year's Classic, and she was the best horse in the US last year. However she didn't step up and take the crown from Curlin, she was trying to get it by default. (Check Zarkava, now that was impressive!)

As for the talk of "DOING WHAT'S BEST FOR THE HORSE" that is really a joke every time I hear an owner or trainer use that statement. I remember Go For Wand's connections continually saying something similar when asked about facing the colts. She died racing against the fillies. The fact is, the only way to protect your horse by doing what's best for them, is to not race them at all. Every time they step on the track a risk is being taken regardless of the competition or location of the racetrack.

I miss the good old days. My horse is better than yours and we'll settle the argument like men should (or women should in this case). Clear the track and it's you versus me. If you can't beat me heads up then there goes your argument. No wonder no one watches racing anymore it's gotten boring.

Yes Shawn i am Dave the Draynay fan, and yet again you forget history.  First it was raining buckets that day in Louisana, and second you mention JJ might not run her.  Well, she is a horse who has proven that she is a beast in the slop, and more to the point about JJ not running her, if i remember correctly (and i do) JJ ran curlin in the slop at monmouth, so why would he not run RA, who has proven that she can handle the stuff.

Mr. Ted from LA,

Now some Old people call him Mr. Jackson to make it SEEM like they have a connection.

I know Mr. Jackson. He and others in racing DON'T appreciate people running down other horses to build one up. They may say, my horse is better than that other horse, but they can PROVE it. They rarely show the disrespect of a wannabe or a jerk. Trust me, they don't WANT that kind of respect because they know that you brag? You may end up looking foolish.

Maybe Zenyatta should be named "Horse of the Year in California."  

In all fairness, however, Lava Man did not like to race outside California.  If I remember correctly, even Swaps did 99% of his racing in California with the exception of the Kentucky Derby.  Some horses are just no good once they leave their home state.

Why are all of you hating on Zenyatta, she's accomplished more then Rachel Alexandra ever can in my opinion. Rachel is WAY overrated as well, whereas Zenyatta just keeps proving she's the best. I feel that Jess Jackson is trying to keep Rachel Alexandra from a crushing defeat by Zenyatta because he won't send her to the Breeders Cup, and after how badly Curlin got beat I don't blame him.

Jason

Great article. Just feel Zenyatta  will win HOTY if she wins the pacific classic and the breeders cup classic. she beats the males twice, RA beats the males twice .Zenyatta wins the classic ,RA is watching from the sidelines.I'm sure there's away to put this guy in his place where hes calling out Mr moss. meanwhile jackson buys his privately. witch i think destroys the sport.

jason,

if she wins the haskell, why go to the travers ,that's alot to ask.If I owned her I would not go to the travers with rachel.we cant even get zenyatta to run against males 1 time but you want rachel to win the preakness,haskell and travers??

If she ran in the travers she be done for the year.why are you giving zenyatta so much attention??? she is completely a synthetic animal!!!! please dont bring up the apple blossom.

Greg J.  

When is Summer Bird going to race Rachael?  How have you been?  

HELLO JASON:

I think you've nailed it regarding Zenyatta's racing future. I'm a devoted fan and believe your key point was stating Moss isn't looking at HOY as a "make or break" for them. I'm ok w/ it I still support her a hundred per cent  anyhow.

This is a race that has to happen to pull interest back in the game.a track got to make these 2 an offer they cant refuse, put it on primetime tv,and hypeit up. everyone has a price!!!!!!!!!

LAVAS L.

That's the difference between a real fan and one that jumps on and off  the next bandwagon. I've been on Zenyatta from the beginning and if her connections refuse to race her in certain races that's their business,period! I can tell you I don't have a dime invested in Zenyatta,do you? They can race her in the venue they want,I agree with their decision. A Hall of Fame trainer stated last yr. on a blog that a trainer places the horse FIRST before the fans. I totally get it, too bad not everyone does!

DRAYNAY

Here you go doing your usual railing on MTB. You told a reader recently that it's personal. He must have burned you big time. I bet if he won the Travers you wouldn't come on here and admit you were wrong about his chances of winning. You burn so much energy continually slamming him I know and most everyone that you would refuse to give credit if he wins the Travers. I think you would give a spin instead.

BETH

If you think for a second Zenyatta doesn't have a chance against RA,you're joking! I can assure you nobody cares,including Moss if you attend the Breeders or not. Why don't Jackson bring RA to face Zenyatta in the Breeders? I don't see your comment regarding that. Good luck with that!

Greg J: NOT "all time".  Check Kincsem.

And Steve from St. Louis: as long as you have acknowledged the Runt's greatness, I have been mollified.

And Mr. Ted from LA: are we now going to have to all follow through with that "To Sir with Love" thing and give everyone an honourific?  Even Mr. Draynay?  And what if you're not sure if someone is a Mr. Ms. Mrs. or other?  Naah -- let's just stick with calling people names (like usual in these blogs).

BTW: Mr. Shandler - have a nice holiday and think fondly of the rest of us still slaving away with only this blog to relive us from the tedium of day to day living -- OK, and maybe alcohol and watching the Jays lose.

I forgot to tell you, Mr. Steve from St. Louis, that after reading my investment statements, I can kick in about $2.00 Cdn (that's a "toonie") towards the purchase of the Giants Causeway mare.  Waddayathink? About another $199,998.00 or so to go?

Steve from St Louis:

Quit telling me to kiss off.  You're going to make me feel like Draynay.  Now I won't be able to sleep for a couple of days.

Jason. Have a wonderful vacation and relax.  You totally deserve it.  :)

Steve from St Louis:

Sorry if you took offence to the fact that I was upset when you called Northern Dancer a runt.  I happen to be height challenged myself.......at three foot one and a half inches even though my parents and are normal height.  It really bothers me when people make fun of other people or things because they are short or under-sized.

I like Moss calling out Jackson for ducking the Breeder's Cup.  Curlin was humbled last year at Santa Anita in front of the racing world, so Jackson points fingers and assigns blame when Raven's Pass was simply too talented and good for Curlin to handle.  That is hard to accept, I'm sure, for Jess Jackson.

 If Tiago gets back into form in time, he will run in the Classic and Zenyatta will run in the Distaff for the Mosses, I think.  If Rachel ducks Zenyatta in the Ladies Classic why should she be rewarded?  She is the best 3 year old filly, but she has not yet proven to be the best 3 year old thoroughbred yet, and she has not proven to be the best filly or mare yet.  She has the 3 year old filly honors locked up at this point, thats it.

Jason,

I might be the guest blogger.  I'd like to do an expose (need accent, can't figure out how to do it after two gin and tonics) on Dray.  If, however, I can't figure it out, I'll just expose him, his wife, and their two dogs.  How much does this job pay?  Do I have to censor posts?  If I become so popular that people demand my return, do I have to come back?

    Off subject here, But I LOVE DEL MAR!!!, Quick Story, I am still at work, I was going to leave, but I was posting here, I Noticed "Carlos in Cali" Picks at Del Mar, So, I went on Youbet, His picks didn't hit(Sorry), But then I hit a $1 Tri on Race #4 for $354, So, for the heck of it, I bet the Pick 4, I knew NOTHING about the horses, So just went with these reasons:

Race 6: "Caspian", Because his dad, "Tale of the CAT"

Race 7: "Hockeythehayman", Because I love HOCKEY

Race 8: "Gretsky", Because HE was my Favorite hockey player

Race 9: "Zaina", Because he was the favorite, and I like his jockey, Tyler Baze

    So, Because of "Carlos in Cali", I hit a $4 Pick 4 for $5,880.00, So Thank You to the people that I was responding to, and, "Carlos in Cali" for bringing up Del Mar and your picks.....

Gotta Love Hockey!!!

Jason,

Have a great vacation!  I will do my best to produce a blog worthy of Breeder's Cup Chat.  Uh oh, I'm getting nervous...I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy...Seriously, it will be my honor and I think my blog will give 'em something to talk about.  Thanks again.

MZ,

   Wow, 54 Starts, 54 Wins, My mistake, That is amazing!, And wouldn't you know it, Colic ended up taking her life at only fourteen, And that was 122 years ago!, Thanks for the correction, But why does every article say That Pepper's Pride set the all time record?, Confusing...

    I guess that ends Dray's prediction that Rachel will go down as the best filly ever, "Kincsem" 54 for 54, Impressive, to say the least...

Laz: I apologize for calling you out. One of the problems with the internet is that it's difficult to see the tounge in people's cheecks and hear the sarcasm in their voices. Making you feel like Dray is the LAST thing I would want. He must be related to the guy who tossed his shoes at George Bush.

Some feel the only way to make themselves bigger is to belittle others.

I just want to talk about these great animals which live and run for our pleasure. Zenyatta is to be admired regardless who owns her, regardless where she runs. The same with Rachel Alexandra. If you're jealous of someone for their support of the industry, shame on you. Moss and Jackson can do what pleases them; they pay the bills. If some here spent one minute on the backstretch in the morning, instead of up in the dining room, sending runners to place bets in the afternoon, they would act differently.

mz: $2 and $2 is now $4. We're on our way.  

    I don't mean to downgrade any of RA's accomplishments at all and I think she might be a freak of nature, but I hear a lot of people saying Zenyatta hasn't/won't do enough to win HOY and who has she beaten.  I guess my question is who has RA really beaten to date?  The best horses she has beaten are MTB, who although unlike Dray I give a little more credit to, still has only won 1 race this year and Big Drama who can't go beyond 1 1/8.  I'm not saying those aren't nice horses, but they're nothing to write home about.  I don't think it's fair to talk negatively about Zenyatta never really beating anyone or hasn't raced outside of Cali but once when RA really hasn't beaten anyone either.  Granted she traveled around more, but even with RA's Mother Goose and KY Oaks' races, if she wouldn't have barely held on for the win in the Preakness, would we be talking about her being the frontrunner for HOY?  I had no idea a win in the Preakness carried so much weight.

Greg J,

Congrats!!!  We need to get to the track together.  I like the way you think.  No chalk for me.

Mr. Ted from LA:

The use of titles such as Mr., Mrs., Ms., etc. is preferred when a person is speaking about someone he does not know well, or has not been formally introduced to.

BTW, titles are for the use of other people. One does not introduce or refer to himself as "Mr. Doe". This is also true for professionals such as doctors, unless the reference is used strictly in a professional context or setting. A doctor does not introduce himself as "Dr. Doe" at a cocktail party, for instance.

Gobin,

I agree with everything you said.  I don't know John Shirreffs (or any of these people), but from what you wrote he sounds sort of like the trainer Laura de Seroux.  I read that Ms. de Seroux was very attached to Azeri, called her "Honey Bear," and at some point probably would have preferred to just not race the horse.  Mr. Shirreffs seems to feel extra protective of Ms. Zenyatta or rather Queen Zenyatta.  

Back when I was a newer racing fan, there was this filly he trained called Manistique.  She was like Lava Man, ran terribly outside Calif. but very good in the state.  She was very big like Zen.  Perhaps Mr. S. is reminded of her?

Someone called Curlin wrote: "I HAD NO IDEA A WIN IN THE PREAKNESS CARRIED SO MUCH WEIGHT."

This person is joking right. You have got to be new to this sport. For goodness sake it is one of the Classics and the fact that no filly had won the race in 80 odd years makes it that much more impressive. They are regular Grade 1 races and then they are championship Grade 1 races that carry enormous weight when it comes to Eclipse voting. The Preakness is one of those. So is the oaks. I'm sorry, but as good as Zenyatta is she has not won any race with as much prestige and history as either the Oaks or Preakness. That's why she wasn't HOTY last year despite Curlin being beaten in the Classic.

Dray,

    Uh, WHY ARE YOU CRITIZING ME!!! I LIKE RA, Duh!!! I have defended you time and time again on RA, what makes you think a stubbor person like me is going to jump ship out of the blue. I know RA is doing things that havent been done, i know that if she wins her next couple she has HOTY locked up. I was just saying that the only way Zen could get HOTY over RA by winning the PC, is if she beat Rail Trip at his best, and then he goes on to win the Classic, making her look good. Do i think it will be enough, no, but it would give her a shot. To be frank I don't like the Moss' being so gaurded with Zen, it's getting old. At least JJ is trying to make up for not going to the Classic by providing an unforgettable season. He appeased the fans last year, and look what happened, he ran an exhausted horse in a race that was taylor made for turf horses. It doesn't seem fair to me that he always is the one who is pressured to appease everyone. It's Moss' turn this year to help out IMO and time for some fo these ppl to cut JJ some slack.

Podge,

    Poly and Pro Ride two different types of synthetics, just ask Stardome Bound who tried it for the first time in the Ashland a could only produce a fraction she could of the late kick she had on Pro Ride.

Shawn,

    Mud won't be a problem. The Fair Grounds Oaks was a mud whole, and the horses looked like they were racing in a muddy brown river, not dirt. RA still whipped the feild. Mud won't cause a scatch.

What a shame, possibly the 2 best horses running, at least in North America, and they won't meet. Thats like taking the two best baseball teams, football teams, etc, etc and not having them meet in their sports championship game. Horse racing really has to get its act together. It is really doing a terrible job on getting itself into any limelight at all with the general public. Stop babying and coddling these athletes!!! Let them meet the best competition as all top competitors should and want to do and let the chips fall where they may. At least it won't leave such terribly disappointing unanswered questions for us racing fans.

Thanks for the thoughts on "Mr. Jackson."  I understand and still teach my children the same etiquette. However, I am assuming many here are older so the fact that they refer to anyone as "Mr." still strikes me funny.  If there are many children posting here, I now understand my most of my posts are censored.

I am disappointed the girls aren't going to meet too but I totally expected that. Their goal is to leave Zenyatta undefeated, not so much HOTY.

But these are two magnificent fillys and I will feel really lucky to be able to watch them run in any race, anywhere. I will be rooting for them both. I will also be rooting for MTB and Quality Road when they comes back.

As for the owners, they love their horses and try to do what they feel is in their best interests. I am not going to second guess the owners. Steve from St. Louis you are absolutely right in your post above. The horses run for our pleasure and we should just be grateful. We can also thank their owners who make that possible.

I agree with Jason that if Rachel wins the Haskell and Travers against MTB, we are looking at HOTY and one heck of a horse. Draynay's passion will be vindicated y'all.

Jason, have a great vacation.

There sure is some serious hate going on for Zenyatta, like it's her fault or something. She has done nothing wrong. What's wrong with all you bloggers? Many of you are always hammering away Zenyatta. Draynay: You never say anything nice about anyone or anything. You are arrogant, opinionated and know very little about this sport. If you were not so annoying I would laugh at your stupidity. Zenyatta is a nice mare, leave her alone. The truth is,  unless you own a crystal ball like the one you used to predict the Kentucky Derby you don't know who is going to win anyrhing, no one does..............

Zenyatta was campaigned like Azeri but Azeri was luckier when she got HOTY. There was no Curlin who won big races against tougher competition. The next year Azeri was campaigned boldly. She was dominant over fillies except at 10 f. On her second try at 10 f she was competitive against males in the Classic (5th behind Ghostzapper). She would probably have done even better in the Whitney.

With Azeri for comparison Zenyatta won't get the benefit of the doubt if she gets a soft campaign. Zenyatta's record indicates that she would be competitive against males. She does what it takes to win but does not destroy the field like RA. Without really tough competition we'll never know what she's capable of. Competitive or dominant?

Leaving a question mark after her name is not really "best for the horse" - unless they know something about her they aren't telling.

Still don't know why it's on Team Zen, like is was "on" Team Personal Ensign to come West???...No, the Cups there, if you are so afraid of losing, don't show...BUT...IF The Cup's at Belmont.....Zenyatta's THERE!.....

LC, Zen didn't win HOY because she didn't race against the boys...Rags didn't get HOY because even though she stomped all the boys in the "test of champions", including eventual HOY Curlin, and won 5 grade 1's (i think it was 5) and barely lost her only race because of a fracture, after all she only won that classic race because she was "given" 5 lbs...(sportswriters comments, not mine)

For some reason RA has all the men sports writers wrapped around her little hoof, ;-) LOL

What are they afraid of?? Why won't the owners of Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra try to work things out. So that the two female horses meet and race against each other in a race. To see who is better. And why is the owner of Zenayatta afraid to take his mare out of California? She's been out of the state before and won. It's not she's like Lava Man who couldn't seem to be able to win outside of California.

If they want to know who's better. And what would happen if they raced in the same race. They better stop danceing around the subject. They better put up or shut up. If they want to know who is the real queen of thoroughbred racing. They'd better get together and figure something out.

That was me Tim. That or the pulled BBQ beef sandwich which at least I don't have to walk too far to get. Last year a friend of mine decided to eat a seafood gumbo from restaurant row. Under normal circumstances it wouldn't bother me. Except it was your basic 90 degree, humid day at the Spa. To top it off, we chowed down the "adult-sized" turkey dinners at Winslow's. Needless to say when we got back to our hotel, he was not present for the evening's handicapping session. Got to love the Spa!

The Preakness is a big deal, right behind the Derby and the BC Classic.  In fact, if you look at the list of Preakness winners, it is the most formful of the triple crown races and therefore has the most impressive list of winners in American racing.  For RA to become the first filly to win it in 85 years is a very big deal.

The Kentucky Oaks is probably the most important race for 3y.o. fillies and RA won it more impressively than anyone in history.  Granted her competition that day was weak, but don't forget the filly that she inhaled turning for home came out of the Oaks to win the G1 Acorn in her next start.

Argument is good, but everyone should just chill and let the year play out before making any definitive statements on who Horse of The Year is. There are still so many scenarios out there for several horses.

Einstein and Gio Ponti have rightly been mentioned as candidates at this point, and what if MTB wins the Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup, and BC Classic. Likely? Not really. But if it happens, how could he not be HOY?

Mike Relva spare me your thoughts on the Derby mud winner. He has turned out to be a ONE HIT WONDER just like Giacamo. They took him to the Apple Butter Stakes out in West Virginia to try and get him another win this year but Big Drama is going to mess that all up.  The Derby mud winner is Giacamo II and has proven himself to be a fluke winner of the mud Derby. So to make you happy I will just call him Giacamo II from now on. LDP I am not picking on you but understand this MR. MOSS and his 148 running filly IS NOT TAKING ON MALES !  Mr. Moss is going to continue on the exact same path and will go for the Distaff again. Mr. Moss wants the State Champion poly specialist to retire undefeated and THAT is what is most important. You can dream all you want about her taking on males but Mr. Moss is not stupid. He knows his horse is not breaking 148 so taking on males would be futile. Go Rachel Go !

Zenyatta is Horse of the Year if she wins her next 2/3 races and the Breeders Cup Classic (males). It does not matter what races Rachel Alexander wins. The only chance we have to see these great champions race against each other is if Jess Jackson fells forced to run in the Classic (males) for a chance at Horse of the Year. Lets all hope we see them compete againts the best horses in the world.  

I personally would like to see Rachel try the Travers after the Haskell from a fans point of view...

But from the handlers point of view,.. if she wins the Haskell against the colts does she really need the Travers at 1 1/4?  She will have beaten the colts twice and can finish the year against the fillies and mares in probably spectacular fashion....

I think if the Travers was 1 1/8 she would go... but I agree with one of the earlier comments that maybe her handlers keep her at 1 1/8 and bring her back next year after a little more maturing to tackle the 1 1/4....?

What would it mean for HOY if she gets beaten in the last 1/8 of a mile at the 1 1/4 Travers and finishes a beaten 3rd or 4th...?

The Travers would be an excellent measuring stick at 1 1/4 at this point in her career to see where she is at... but a 3rd or 4th would knock some of the luster off...

If she "could" pull off a win in the Travers at 1 1/4 over the Kentucky Derby Winner and Belmont winner, and I was handling her I would race her twice more against the fillies and mares where she could probably finish the year undefeated...

If she doesn't go to the Travers she could race against the boys again at Belmont on Sept 12th at the Ruffian Handicap at 1 1/16 which would be a great distance for her... or the Beldame at 1 1/8 at Belmont on October 3rd...

If you were handling Rachel Alexandra and she wins the Haskell and comes out of it fine and is ready ... would you run her in the Travers at 1 1/4?

To put Rachel Alexandra in context, outside of the United States, in every other racing jurisdiction on this planet, fillies and mares run against the boys on a daily basis, in the Arc on a yearly basis. Jess Jackson is to be applauded because he and his trainer realized the filly was better than what they witnessed in the Derby, they saw a Preakness opportunity, ponied up the $10 million or so and were rewarded with a dramatic win. Does this make R.A. one of the greatest horses of all time? Not to me, not YET. If she were foaled a year earlier, I doubt she would have run against Big Brown. She's an exceptional runner and her place in history is cemented just because no other filly has ever won the Preakness. Filles have won the Derby and Belmont multiple times, although rare. She MIGHT be the best in her crop, we'll see. Let's just sit back and enjoy the journey. Rags to Riches didn't win HOY in June and neither did 'Rachel'. She must do more, in my opinion, than beat the same 3-year-olds again.

Greg J.  Congrats!!!!!!

I know the feeling of hitting when you do stuff like that.  I have wagered for the strangest reasons and hit!  I think there is a reason why you hit that pick.  Stuff like that is really trippy. :)

Rachel Alexandra is a monster up to 9 furlongs. Add another furlong, place it on dirt and I think it would be a fair race between her and Zenyatta.

By the way... Deacon your friend request is accepted.  I always welcome new fans !

i find it funny how mad people get on this blog.

all i have to say is...

1. zenyatta should go to belmont

2. rachel should try out the proride

3. i have loved MTB ever since i saw him win the derby, and i dont believe he's a fluke

4. the haskell is going to be a good race!

Dray;

Zenyatta is a 1:46.4…..1-1/8 mile winner cruising home in the Distaff and defeating more G-1 winners in that race, than Rachel has defeated in her entire career.

On top of that she has defeated a total of ten (that's 10) different G-1 winners which have won multiple G-1 races.

I know you don't get it......you never will.

To date, Rachel's accomplishments have been admiral, but she has to do a lot more to get into my top ten.  Speed alone just doesn’t do it…….speed against real class is much more impressive.  To that point, who has Rachel beaten that can truly be called class?

• MTB?  The Derby winner is good, but I doubt he’ll ever be considered great.  Other than the derby, he has only won against weak stakes type competition at Woodbine.

• Is winning the Preakness enough?....not this year.  The field was very average.  In fact the only one as average or weaker in recent memory was BIG BROWN’S.

• Talk about Big Drama all you want but the fact is, most of his big wins came in restricted Florida stakes.  His Preakness was off a seven week layoff in what was his only race of 2009.  He is probably a miler and will probably point towards the Sprint in the BC if he goes there.

• Musekt Man?.....a very workmanlike horse that has not to date won a G-1.

• General Quarters?.....one G-1 win and on a synthetic track, a former $20K claimer.

• POTN?.....I’m afraid not.  He hasn’t proven anything on dirt.

• The balance of the field…..non-descript.

• The Oaks field?.....I’m laughing.

• The Mother Goose?....One of the greatest speed set-ups in recent memory.  There are a lot of horses that would have won that race given the trip Rachel had, and in stellar time.  Rachel’s time was impressive, but the competition was?????

DRAYNAY…..wake up and smell the coffee.  I’m beginning to think that this personal thing you have against MTB is not just the fact that he upset the Derby field, it could also be you were so impressed with that race that you bet him in the Preakness.

Dray.....I know you won't respond....how could you?

ZENYATTA is not a State Champion, she is the 2008 Champion Older Mare in the entire United States of America. The people who ask "who has she beaten?" are clueless, apparently, because she defeated a fantastic bunch of fillies and mares last year. She defeated TOUGH TIZ'S SIS three times and when that filly got free from running with ZENYATTA she smashed the Ruffian Handicap field by 12 lengths.

ShaNayDray disrespects almost every horse that has ever competed in the history of Thoroughbred racing. I think RACHEL ALEXANDRA is the only one he likes. How can you be a horse racing fan when you like only one horse? How can you be a music fan that only likes one band? I would think that if you're a fan of something you generally like many things about that hobby or point of interest.

After reading all 163 comments (the the last one being Draynay's 10:57am post) I'm being reminded of my Grandmother who kept telling the same stories over and over again...

Most people who comment are only writing the same old tired argument, or repeating what somebody else posted 100 times before.

No matter what the subject of the original blog (this time about Zenyatta's remaining schedule for 2009) the discussion turns to Rachel Alexandra being the winner of the HOTY award, the evils of synthetic tracks, the superiority of Eastern horseracing and the necessity of California's horses to travel to the hallowed grounds of the great eastern racetracks.

OH HUM!

My thoughts on Zenyatta's future schedule: Whatever her owners want, SHE'S THEIR HORSE! And what a magnificent specimen she is! Go Zenyatta! You're a treasure!

Zookeeper: Thank goodness you got here to throw water on these dogs in heat. Where have you been? Rock On!

MIKE S

Very good points!

I'm starting to not care about HOY discussions. Maybe I'm just sour because Rachel looks like the runaway winner. Maybe I'll start accusing people of keeping with the same old East Coast/West Coast prejudices. Maybe I'm just frustrated that the Mosses won't take her out of California to run her on dirt again.

But maybe it's just the same thing all over again with Pepper's Pride - a win's a win, regardless, so let's just enjoy the ride.

And frustration aside, I'm just enjoying the ride.

If only weight became Zenyatta's challenge...

Ted from LA, Jason censors you???????????? What a shame because I laugh out loud at some of your posts. I can only imagine what he is leaving out. You too, Steve from St. Louis. You guys need to do a stand-up act.

I can't wait for the girls' next races. MTB too. What a great season.

I don't think California horses have to travel east Zookeeper. But I would love to see our girl Zenyatta run just one race against the boys. I think she would win. I doubt they will pick the BCC so I will take any other boy/girl race.

Steve from S.L.,

I've been here reading and reading and reading. By the time I'm finished, there's little left to be said...

Maybe I should learn speed reading or do as some people do on this blog: ignore all arguments that do not correspond to my opinion and ramble on and on about a subject other than the one at hand.

Seriously though, I enjoy the bantering back and forth but I don't always have something to add to the discussion...It's already been chewed to death. :)

As much as I love ZENYATTA, and as much as I've wanted her to "beat the boys" I'm almost hoping she stays in the female division only because I don't want her showing up in the Breeders Cup Classic and ruining my 1-2 exacta box of COLONEL JOHN and WELL ARMED.

Paula Higgins,

The Pacific Classic or the Goodwood would be good choices for Zenyatta to do "something different". Beside giving me a heart attack, IF she won, it still wouldn't be good enough for the zealots who love to bash her. Notice the emphasis on IF, because NOTHING is a sure thing in horseracing. One thing I know is that she would give it her best shot...and IMO that is nothing to sneeze at when it comes from a CHAMPION MARE.

Jason,

I really enjoyed your take on Zenyatta's possible path. It's very intriguing.

What really disappoints me is that for the second consecutive year, we will have two superhorses who will not face each other. Last year we were all hoping that Curlin and Big Brown would meet, and that prospect went up in flames because Big Brown had the quarter crack problem again and Curlin ultimately didn't like the ProRide. That's understandable, however, this year, we have two super females who are healthy, at the top of their game, both of whom can take their tracks with them--Zenyatta crushed Ginger Punch last year at Oaklawn on dirt--,both whom have won on both synthetic and dirt surfaces, yet there is little or no chance of seeing them in the same race.

I don't know what super horses are on the racing horizon for next year, but I hope we won't be debating in 2010 whether Horse A is better than Horse B, if it turns out, yet once again, they'll never meet.

Ted from LA:

Glad you got something from my post about the use of titles, and took it in stride. After I had submitted that post I thought, "Oh mercy, I sound like an old school teacher and Ted will probably be offended." I certainly didn't mean to come across that way.

Points of etiquette and grammar interest me, and I try to be mindful of them in day-to-day living. I also think you have to use common sense as well. For example, Jason Shandler and we do not know one another, and we have never been formally introduced. But it would be a little silly for me to keep referring to him as "Mr. Shandler" on this blog.

I love to read the "Usage Notes" under some of the word entries in my American Heritage Dictionary. These notes address the finer distinctions about word usage and errors. They also reveal trends in word usage. The prediction is that the word "whom" will disappear from standard usage before long. Suits me just fine!

I'd like to thank my 10th and 11th grade English teacher, Kay Metzger, for instilling this love of language in me. I have never had a better teacher, even through college and two post-graduate degrees. She always sits on my shoulder.  

Soldier Course,

I have a similar teacher riding on my shoulders too.  Jason's censorship is USUALLY warranted. There have been a couple I didn't understand.  I like adult humor (not raunchy humor).  My favorite was when I used an old Rodney Dangerfield one-liner on one of Steve's blogs and somebody took offense to it.  I've enjoyed this Bloodhorse forum and can't wait to take part in the banter leading up to the 2010 Triple Crown.  I was late to the party this year, but at least I wasn't wearing a pink dress like another male poster here.  

MR. TED from LA, I'm not a child and some of what I could write would curl most of these people's hair, like all 20 something guys can do.

Funny but I know a lot of older people who still refer to others by salutation.

Dave the doorknob,

YES Rachel DID run in the rain but like I said THAT WAS FOR HAL!!

Just like RACHEL DID run on synthetics at Keeneland but THAT WAS FOR HAL.

So, that said, Jess NOW the OWNER could say he's NOT risking her in the slop.

It was a HYPOTHETICAL SUPPOSITION, a what IF. Which I clarified with Jason from the get-go.

Zookeeper? You've not been shy in your posting in the last several months. Some people are just new posters others have said the same things for the last year.

Draynay thinks he has fans?

It's 'personal' for DN? How can something be personal when the parties involved could walk within 2 inches of him and not know who he is? (or give a rats a**)

Hey, maybe I can show them his picture! My bet is you wouldn't want to mess with Mark Allen, Chip,Bill and the rest of the posse. Those guys are from where frontier justice is still served and I mean that in the best possible way.

My money is on them in a throwdown. Not on a spray tan, steroid pumped motor mouth.

steve from st. louis,

Not to belittle Rachel's accomplishment, but multiple fillies have won the Preakness. She is, in fact, the fourth to do so.

Not to belittle her accomplishment? Lol... multiple fillies have won ? Tiznowbaby its been 85 years !!! It appears its easier to win the Triple Crown than for a filly to win the Preakness.  Not to mention she wins it from the post no other horse has ever won from in its history.  This is the problem I have with so called racing fans today.  Many are just protectors of the past and NO MATTER what Rachel does this year or next there will be people like you trying to tell us some horse did it better in the past.  Because of people like you many will not be able to enjoy the amazing wins and records posted by Rachel this year. What a shame.

Tiznowbaby,

      Yeah she is ONLY the fourth, and the fourth in 85 years to win the Preakness. The way you say it you'd think fillies win it every year.

Shawn,

    JJ ran Curlin in slop twice, in the BC and in his second JCGC. Obviously he doesn't think it's that bad.

Shawn P,

I have corns on my feet over 20 something years old.

Also, I'm a fan of Drays.  Anyone who can get under the skin of so many without personal attacks, is a gifted smart as.... alack.  

Dray,

    I'm not even holding my breath that she'll take on males. Moss IMO is to preoccupied w/keeping that record unblemished. JJ had Curlin, top dog last year and was pressured into coming over to the Cup to race and was a sportsman and did it, even though he himself HATED synthetics BEFORE curlin's loss. He's did the thing the public opinion way last year and got majorly burned, so why would anybody in their right mind go back and do what didn't work one time and do it again. I believe that is the definition of insanity. Why doesn't Moss take his horse who so many think is top dog this year and go be the sportsman and do something really out of the box. By all means race her in the Classic. Heck i wouldn't care if he actually stood up for what he believed in, if he truley doesn't like synthetics and said the heck with you i'll come and race on dirt and show you what i think of your synthetic crap. DIRT and TURF are where champions should be determined, not on an unproven surface that has been in use for a year.

I refer to Jess Jackson as Mr. Jackson because I am "talking about him" when he is not present to state his point of view.  It is a gesture of respect (as in, with all due respect).  I do the same when referring to Mr. Haskin on this blog.  Jason lives here, but if I was on the other blog, he would become Mr. Shandler.  Although I have reason to believe those two cross over.  ;)

Zookeeper, let's hope they run her in one of those two. That would be great. I love Zenyatta too. She is a CHAMPION mare, she is magnificent (just saw her on ESPN close-up and my God she's gorgeous)and no one can argue that fact. If she races in the BC distaff is Stardom Bound a possibility? I am hearing she may race in that also. That would be a good race. I think people underestimate Zenyatta big time.

John Shirreffs just said on ESPN that it will depend on how Zenyatta trains at Delmar before he looks at the Pacific Classic.

www.nypost.com/.../belmont_winner_could_run_down_rachel_at__181281.htm

I read this article and I have never laughed so much in all my life.  The people in this article are either crazy or think hitting the lottery is easy.  "All we need is a little pace ?"  You have to be kidding me !  Rachel runs a 134 mile like its nothing and at that point the Bird will be 10 lengths behind. Even if she coast home 13 seconds "The Bird" would have to come home in a impossible time of 11 seconds.  Everyone had their chance to run down Rachel on just two weeks rest at the Preakness and they never got close.  There is NO HORSE that can run her down or run with her after a mile.  Tim Ice is feeling pretty good about his horse but I think someone should remind him he saw nearly a 138 mile in the Belmont.  What he Will see in the Haskell is 4 SECONDS FASTER or about 20 lengths.

"Most of the great ones -- Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid -- have been in my barn," Mazza said. "None of them have looked better than Summer Bird." John Mazza I don't care how long you have been training horses.  Did you just compare Summer Bird to The Bid and Seattle Slew ?  I hope writer Ray Kerrison has the guts to talk to these people again after the Haskell and ask them, "Why do you think Rachel crushed you guys with such ease ?"

Doorknob, that is the best you can do.  And like i said JJ ran Curlin in the slop at monmouth, that you like to talk about.  So why wouldn't he run her.    

I get that it was a what if question, but it seems to be a rather stupid.

I am watching espn's coverage of the Eddie Reed, and John Sherrifs said that Belmont was a maybe.

Did anyone see John speaking about Zenyatta on ESPN? Doesn't sound like he's ducking anyone and that mare is a MONSTER!

If anything she looks more fit than she did when I saw her at BC and even then was fitter looking than she was at Oaklawn, the other time I saw her in person. Rachel is imposing, but not quite so.

Alex, you sure it wasn't some of the 'accoutrements' which often accompany a day at the Spa?

Someone called Curlin wrote: "I HAD NO IDEA A WIN IN THE PREAKNESS CARRIED SO MUCH WEIGHT."

"This person is joking right. You have got to be new to this sport. For goodness sake it is one of the Classics and the fact that no filly had won the race in 80 odd years makes it that much more impressive. They are regular Grade 1 races and then they are championship Grade 1 races that carry enormous weight when it comes to Eclipse voting. The Preakness is one of those. So is the oaks. I'm sorry, but as good as Zenyatta is she has not won any race with as much prestige and history as either the Oaks or Preakness. That's why she wasn't HOTY last year despite Curlin being beaten in the Classic."

    LC, No, I'm not joking and I'm far from new to this sport.  If you think a Preakness win solely by itself is enough or should be enough to sway voters to vote for a horse for HOY then you're kidding yourself.  Take away RA's Preakness vicotry and are we talking about her as HOY in light of her other accomplishments?  The answer is NO!  I'm not saying she's not a very impressive filly by any means, I'm just tired of everyone downgraded what Zenyatta has accomplished over the course of her career.

    You want an example of what I'm talking about concerning the Preakness, then simply look at Big Brown's resume last year.  It wasn't enough for him to be HOY and that included the ultimate Classic win, the KY Derby.  I mean he won the Preakness along with the FL Derby, KY Derby & Haskell so if the Preakness carried a ton of weight in the voters' minds as you obviously think it does, shouldn't he have won HOY?  He also beat older horses and skipped the BC much like RA would do if she won the Beldame.  Now, granted the race he beat older horses in was taylor made for him, but still.

    Hell, Rags to Riches beat the Preakness winner in the Belmont, again another of the Classics and it had been even longer than 80 years since any filly had won the Belmont, and also won prestigous races like the SA Oaks and KY Oaks so why wasn't she HOY?

    For all the "what if" people out there, what if MTB were to somehow win the WV Derby, Travers and BC Classic like some have stated.  I don't think it will happen, but what if.  Does Rachel still get HOY?  A lot of people say yes, but MTB would have won the KY Derby and BC Classic, the absolute 2 most prestigous races run in the US.  You telling me a Preakness win would carry more weight than a KY Derby and BC Classic win?  Get real!  So once again, I had no idea a Preakness win carried so much weight in voting for HOY.  It has to be the horse's entire resume for that year that gets them HOY, not just one race regardless of what race it is.

    Back to Zenyatta, granted she hasn't accomplished much this year and I'll admit that so for right now, she doesn't deserve HOY.  However, if she goes on to win 4 more races, all of which I believe are GI races, including possibly beating males in the PC and BC that is impressive even if it's not outside of Cali so people shouldn't bash her accomplishments.    

So be it, Jason.  Whatever gets Zenyatta to a safe and winning end to her career is obviously the most important priority for her connections.

Mine That Bird's next wins will make all doubters eat their words.   Don't count him out for horse of the year.

Curlin I have one word for you...(yawn) !

Ted (dropped the MR after that remark) Draynay's history and his way of speaking down to people is what gets under people's skin.

Especially those he spoke/speaks to in that manner who ARE race trackers. He's full of something. He talks about his riches, yet shirttails it on other peoples horses. Put your moolah where the mouth is DN.

Doorknob is what I can get past the edit. As in, dumber than a doorknob??

Curlin was one horse, Rachel is another. Jess paid more for Rachel, initial outlay than he and his partners did for Curlin.

She's a filly, like it or not, the public looks at that differently.

I'm curious. How many of you people go to the track on a regular basis? How many of you own, train or do anything in the game? Fantasy stables, crushes on horses man that is too weird Severe Equine Obsession Disorder, ewwwwww.

Zany Zayat took Thorn Song away from Dale, Mitchell takes off the full blinkers because 'he doen't need them' TS bolts takes a right turn. Can laugh now but Mikey is just lucky he didn't get hurt.

LDP,

I will refer you to steve from st. louis's comments where he  said "multiple" fillies had won the Derby and Belmont, while only one filly had won the Preakness. His implication was that it was harder for a filly to win the Preakness than the other two classics. I merely pointed out that "multiple" fillies also had won the Preakness -- using the word he used. I don't belittle Rachel's accomplishments, because - as I have posted over and over - I think she's fabulous and a joy to watch.

Curlin:

I absolutely agree with you, especially considering this year's Preakness.  The top three-year olds were all out, mostly because of injury and it was far from a classic field.

If the top ten golfers in the world missed the Master or any other Major, would it carry as much weight as it would if they were in it?  I think not.  But the winner would forever be identified as a winner of a Major.

The sad thing about this year's Triple Crown was that earlier in the year when the stars were emerging it looked like it was going to be one of the deeper TC's in recent memory.  Unfortunaely one by one many of them had to drop out.

My post of 12:50 expresses how I feel about the Preakness, how I think Rachel has to do a lot more, and how great Zen, who has defeated ten differnt G-1 winners, is being wrongly slighted.

Curlin,

     BB resume was not enough last year because he had to knock off the defending HOTY and never did as did Zenyatta, and she didn't either. Curlin ran a bang up year and nobody stepped up with a year already as good or better than his and beat him at his own game, dirt. When there is a defending HOTY around, you must beat them to take the thrown if they have proven themselves still on top in their races that year, as Curlin did. Seeing as how the top two contenders besides Curlin never stepped up to try and take his crown from him after what most would say was a successful season, he remained HOTY. This year is different, there is no HOTY and whoever goes out there and does the most will get the award. MTB has won the Derby yes, but nothing else, and the WV Derby isn't exacly know for it's prestige. Summer Bird won the Belmont, but only has a maiden win to go along with it. Einstien has a couple grade one wins, but against questionable cometition. Gio Ponti could become a legit threat if he keeps up his rampage. Zenyatta as of now has a grade 2 and grade 1 win, neither one was very dominant, just another win. RA has won three Grade ones in a row, two are some of the most presitgious races for fillies, sorry if i killed the spelling, and the other was the Preakness. Was the competion lacking, yes, but no more than what Zen faced in the Vanity or what Einstein faced in the Stephen Foster. The differnce is that she absolutely dominates when she steps onto the track and always wins with a flare. Nobody, not even after the wire, passed her in the Preakness, and in the Oaks she wins by 20 almost in stakes record time, and in the MG she wins in stakes record time by 19. She has won everything she has been in this year, whether it be colts or fillies, rain or shine, and she has won on multiple tracks. Also just a question but Just Jenda, Sarah Louis, Flying Spur, and Dream Empress. They may not all be grade one winners, but since when did they become weak competitors. RA has beaten all these horses, so how exacly has she faced a bunch of nobodies? By beating these fillies so easily she has scared anyone else off, is that her fault? Some of these fillies would be grade one winners if RA were not here. Flying Spur, would've likely been the favorite in the Oaks, seeing how she finished second to RA twice this year. RA hasn't faced a bunch of nobodies. She beat these horses then scared off the rest. That should just prove how good she really is.

The "mysterious" part of Zenyatta's future, to me, is: what stallion currently standing could possibly be good enough to mate with her?  Princess Rachel>Curlin, no problem. A good match, that's an easy one.  But Zen?  She's the Queen.  I've tried quite a few hypo-matings with many of the best stallions, and the AP Indy cross consistently comes up A++, but I just don't think they're her equal. I can't think of any who are.

Zenyatta should keep running as if she were a gelding.  SHE should have been the one featured in Vogue.  The MARE who wins every time. We all know the filly is off to the breeding shed next year, a  flash (albeit brilliant)in the pan, and what does that say to the girls who would identify with her?

I tell you, the women's movement has missed a stellar opportunity here. ;-)

Tim G, see my post above your last one. YES! I saw Zenyatta on ESPN and almost keeled over. My husband was walking by the t.v. and stopped dead in his tracks and said she was an incredible looking horse. Bear in mind my husband knows less than 0 about horse racing and even he was impressed. She IS awesome looking. Also, a personality girl. She clearly loves her trainer John Shirreffs. I just love this horse. Rachel is beautiful too but not as much of an amazon. Cannot wait for the next two weekends.

thanks, tiznowb.of course.

"Not to belittle her accomplishment? Lol... multiple fillies have won ? Tiznowbaby its been 85 years !!! It appears its easier to win the Triple Crown than for a filly to win the Preakness."

    Dray, I don't think anyone is really trying to belittle her accomplishments.  Take them for what they have been, a great horse beating mediocre competition.  That's doesn't mean RA isn't on her way to being one of the best fillies or mares of all time, but it is what it is.

    By the way, it's also not like fillies try running in the Preakness every year, which if they did, would make RA's Preakness win truly impressive.  RA is just the 5th filly to win the Preakness out of 53 who have tried and also the 1st in the last 85 years, but truth is, since Nellie Morse won the Preakness in 1924, only 11 fillies (that includes RA) have run in the Preakness.  I think 1 for 11 (9%) is about what your win % is Dray, isn't it?  Anyway, that basically means over the last 85 years, we have a filly in the Preakness about every 8 years so it's not like they run all the time.  I know you're going to try and flip this and say we only have a filly in the race once every 8 years because it's the TC and the race is so tough and blah, blah, blah so I'll save you the time, lol.  Did I mention I missed you while you were gone Dray?

    Anyone else besides me keep thinking of the infamous Denny Green quote when talking about how the AZ Cardinals let the Bears beat them a couple of years ago on MNF without scoring an offensive touchdown.  You know "The Bears are who we thought they were, that's why we took the field.  If you want to crown their asses, then crown them"?  I guess for RA it could be "RA is who we thought she was, that's why we took to the track.  If you want to crown her ass, then crown her".  

"Most of the great ones -- Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid -- have been in my barn," Mazza said. "None of them have looked better than Summer Bird." John Mazza I don't care how long you have been training horses.  Did you just compare Summer Bird to The Bid and Seattle Slew ?"

Now come on Dray, are you really getting on Mazza for comparing Summer Bird to The Bid and Seattle Slew.  It sounds like he's comparing them on looks alone, not what they've done on the track to me.  Are you telling me that you're criticizing Mazza for his comments on comparing SB to The Bid and SS when you chastise others on this blog who don't like the fact that you compare RA to Ruffian or any of the other greats of the past?

If Zenyatta wins the Pacific Classic and the Breeders'Cup Classic, I think she's Horse of the Year...true Classic distances and no female horses have ever won those races.

Rachel can take it easy at shorter distances beating up on NO ONE.

Sorry but she hasn't faced any true female competition all year and almost got beat by Mine That Bird in the Preakness.  Any farther and she would've lost.

Same for Zenyatta.  No true female competition.  She should've been in the Hollywood Gold Cup, not Life is Sweet, wtf?!?!?  

If they both take it easy and coast, I say chuck them BOTH!  Give Horse of the Year to the overall earnings winner, like they did last year with Curlin!

They should have run Rachel in the Belmont Stakes.  If she would have won that,  then she could have stayed in the barn for the rest of the year AND still won HOY, no matter what happened in the BC. A filly winning the Preakness & Belmont would have surely been handed the hoy trophy. Perfect example of Jackson's poor planning, so now she HAS TO win the Haskell and probably the Travers too.  The thing is that she needs to race against a quality field, not a group of bum 3 year old colts who were the ones left standing after all the promising 3 year olds were injured and retired earlier in the year.  She needs to run in the Woodward or JCGC.

I am not sure I understand your argument Curlin.  You seem to be saying Mine That Bird has a chance to be HoY over Rachel Alexandra because voters need to consider the entire resume and not just one race.  RA has won 5 out of 5 major stakes for 3 year old fillies with historical ease, besides her Preakness win.  This makes her 6 for 6 this year and well on her way to completing the most outstanding 3 year old filly campaign since at least the mid 1940s.  I have respect for MTB and his triple crown performances, but the bottom line he has won 1 out of 5 this year.

I'm truthfully a biiiig Zenyatta fan... always have been, always will be. And I'm with those who think that Zenyatta should totally go for the Pacific Classic. I mean, it's not like she's an unproven baby! I'll bet she'd give those boys a run for their money. She's got speed (not to mention she's a bit bigger than the average mare so it's not like she'll be at a huge disadvantage because of size), I personally think she has plenty of stamina, and if she does win , that's another $1 million dollars in the bank!

LDP: I totally agree with you about Zenyatta and the synthetics. Synthetics are crap, from what I've read and heard there are more accidents on synthetic than traditional DIRT or TURF, and it hasn't been proven as a good surface yet. IMO horses should never race on synthetic. DIRT or TURF forevah!

Newsflash RA has not yet won the Haskell. Colts develope a bit later than fillies, and August is Different than May. RA was all out to win the Preakness, and should she get beat,old Jess, with his super sized ego, could just end up in California.  

This argument will be a moot point once Summer Bird waxes RA next week. Believe it summer bird is the real deal and should be considered the horse of the year after he wins the haskell the belmont and the travers...he is a new horse with blinkers and Kent D on board. If RA beats Summer bird I will be shocked! Take summer bird to the bank next week..bling bling!

The Breeders Cup is to blame. Running the BC 2 years in a row at the same venue? STUPID! If it was in CD this year, we wouldn't have this problem.

What I would like to know is how many fillies have RUN in the Preakness in the last 100 years.  That statistic would say a lot.  I don't want to look it up LOL.  :)

Rebecca, no one is hating Zenyatta.  We are disappointed in her owners molly coddling of her, treating her like a snowflake, and focusing only on racing in California rather than proving she's as good as she probably is.

As to your claim that she's done more than Rachel Alexandra could ever do, you seem to forget that only one of these mares has beaten males, has won the Preakness, and has raced in more than 2 states.  And that mare is NOT Zenyatta.

She has gone to her opponents, not avoided then.  Zenyatta hasn't even run as many races as Rachel Alexandra, and is two years her senior.

While she may retire undefeated, she will be remembered as another Lava Man.

smartysgal 7/24 7:30

No, you do not remember correctly when you say " even Swaps ran 99% of his races in California". You can talk all you want about the horses running this year and give your opinion but hold on when talking about yesterdays greats and you don't offer some hint at fact checking. So alow me-----

First of all, I lived down the road from Swaps and saw him practically every day plus had the pleasure of watching him race with my favorite jockey, the great Bill Shoemaker.

Swaps set or equaled 6 world records, besting Citations world record four times in one year! He raced in Florida carrying 130 lbs, lowered the track record and set a new world record for a mile and seventy yards. He raced in the American Derby on grass and while setting a new course record, equalled the American record on grass. His owner would not race him in the Preakness and Belmont due to the Eastern snobbery, denying Swaps the chance for a tripple crown. I, along with many, feel Swaps could have prevailed. So you see, the East vs West bias goes way back, Zenyatta is not the first great California horse to "get no respect", and she's not the last. Swaps' connections ran him against Nashua with an injured leg and it cost him the HOY. Read the Top 100 Racehorses of the 20th century and get some facts to back up your opinions.

Rex Ellsworth was a crusty ol cuss and many question his handling of Swaps, but when you question  Zenyattas path, keep in mind they have done nothing to harm her in any way. Would we as fans like to see something different for her? Sure, but we do not own her and ultimately, it's none of our business. Want to have a say so? Buy a racehorse.  As for my own bias, did I mention my poster of Zenyatta, signed by Mike Smith for the Zenyatta day at HOllywood Park?  

DRAYNAY,

Based upon what has been revealed so far Rachel Alexandra's talent is scary.  However I continue to stress that we have a vintage crop of 3YO's this season, so immensely talented that even with many (IWR,POTN,FF,MM, GQ and The "Mousse") on the sidlines due to injury as well as those on the quiet comeback trail (QR, VH, MS)we still have a few very good ones that are still improving and may yet be unknown quantities capable of surprising everyone.  Summer Bird and Munnings are in that category therefore the Haskell is NOT going to be a cakewalk for Rachel.  My personal feeling is that she should have skipped the Haskell and gone after a victory over older horses (less formidable and more predictable competition than these fiesty overnight developing 3YO colts) at this stage.  

If you ponder the pace scenario, Munnings can lead or stalk at a pretty fast clip and his stamina limitation is unknown at 9 furlongs therefore, potentially he has the turn of foot to hold Rachel off or run her nip-and-tuck to the wire, if he stays the trip.  Summer Bird is a lightly raced colt that has been improving with every race, stays forever and packs a good closing kick therefore an upset victory in a fast run Haskell is not far fetched if Munnings and Rachell get hooked in a speed duel.  If Rachel Alexandra wins this one convincingly in a scenario close to what I've outlined, then I think the HOTY title is pretty much over and that Jess Jackson could rethink the Breeder's Cup in terms of her all-time greatnes as a 3YO.

Winning the Preakness and Haskell should block any challenge that may come from Quality Road (or any other in the 3YO division) for HOTY and render her appearance in the Travers unnecessary.  All she would need is a grade one win over older horses to silence the staunchest defenders of "queen" Zenyatta's HOTY bid.  After that if she thrives on the heavy campaign and is none the worse for wear, the Breeder'Cup appearance would be the icing on the cake (whether in the Distaff or Classic).  It would be hard to top that with a 4YO campaign therefore she woudld have earned her retirement to stud without controversy.  This is one man's take on Rachel Alexandra's remainder of the 2009 season.

To compare the rarity of a filly winning the Preakness to a winner of the Triple Crown also requires taking in to consideration how many times a filly has run in the Preakness vs how many times a filly has won.  Obviously a filly can not win the Preakness if a filly is not running in the Preakness.

I think RA is very impressive, impressive enough not to require a skewing of data.

draynay

ANYBODY CAN GET CAN BREAK 1:47 AT BELMONT AT 1 1/8. ITS ONLY A ONE  TURN RACE HOW ELSE YOU THINK SECRETARIAT SET THE TRACK RECORD AND RA TO SET A  STAKES RECORD. COMPARED TO RUNNING TWO TURNS ON A SURFACE THAT YOU HATE AND RUNNING A 1:48.

DRAYNAY

www.equibase.com/.../eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm

HOW BOUT EXPLAINING TO ME WHY RA WAS NOMINATED TO THE APPLE CIDER STAKES YOU SO CALL.

"Did anyone see John speaking about Zenyatta on ESPN? Doesn't sound like he's ducking anyone and that mare is a MONSTER!"

I watched that Saturday evening.  She is GORGEOUS.

I am not a stats kind of horsefan I tend to follow my gut.Zenyatta is to me the most fabulous filly in a long time.Rachel Alexandra is awesome,but there is something about Zen that has captured my heart.

You have watched her brilliance. Now you criticize Jerry Moss. Same like everybody did with Jess Jackson last year.

Zenyatta is great for our sport. Realize THAT.

S.

Zenyatta's schedule should be what her connections want it to be. They are the ones who laid their money on the line in the first place.

The RA HOY draynay bandwagon will be finished after Summer Bird beats her this weekend. RA will be lucky to finish in the money.

Saw John Shirreffs on ESPN as well. What a goof!! No wonder I haven't seen much of him interviewing. Not Mr. Personality by any means. Of Zenyatta vs Rachael Alexandra he said, just look at her and you ask the question? Hey Johnnycake, Rachael Alexandra would give her all ahe can handle and maybe more. Looks aren't everything, she's not invincible. Grow a pair and do your best to see they meet.

Oh no RA has some serious competition! Summer Bird is in good racing form, muscles are popping out and he is going to turn into a transformer on sunday and shock the world! Summer Bird will be the HOY! Belmont, Haskell and travers its a lock!

You Zenyatta haters are ridiculous to say the least. Here's the bottom line...the BC will be held at Santa Anita this year. PERIOD..END OF STORY! Who really cares what the horses do until then? The BC is the greatest day of racing for our sport. RA not showing up is equivalent to a football team not playing the Superbowl because its played on an artificial turf field opposed to natural grass. Jess Jackson needs to stop making excuses, bring RA out west and take his thumping by Zenyatta like every other horse she's ever raced!

FYI,

    "Pyro" is back!, He is set to race at Saratoga on Wednesday, July 29, In the $80,500 James Marvin Stakes, Race #3, 7 Furlongs, His first race since 10/25/08...

Glad he is back, Go Pyro...

I think draynay should race in the BC Distaff.

Write This Down!  Zenyatta will not run in the BC girls or boys classic. They are to concerned with her reputation and I don't think she's nearly as sharp as she was last year, she is 5 now and it isn't like she could improve much more. I'd be shocked if she leaves Delmar still undefeated, and if she doesn't they'll claim she isn't sound and retire her. I hope for racing's sake. I'm wrong!

   I just want to know what Draynay will say when Summer Bird beats Rachel?, Draynay, Can you go on the record with your excuse now?, Thanks...

   Seems like there are more Summer Bird fans coming out into the open in the last week or so, Interesting...

Please please please, all you Summer BIrd fans make sure you come back here on Monday August 3rd and explain why your horse got whipped by Rachel Alexandra. The horse runs a 147 in her sleep and no horse running can deal with her. A lot of stakes wins will be in the Haskell this year the most in many years but Rachel is head and shoulders above these horses.

It's time to realize you are seeing one of the all time greats. Rachel right now is not beatable.

Thomas Marceda, ANYONE can break 147 at Belmont ?  Really? Why don't you show me how many have done it in the last 30 years while being eased 200 yards before the wire.  I'll wait.  Curlin, stop it. Fillies don't run in the Preakness because many feel they wouldn't stand a chance against the males and the Kentucky Derby winner.  Not only did she win but she won from a post no horse in HISTORY had won from.  The race was over at the top of the stretch and she coasted home.  I could care less that the Derby mud winner got within a length when the race was over.  Coming down the long stretch she never saw another horse.  It was pure domination, just ask Big Drama. LAZZMANICK...lol.. no one is buying what you are selling. Last years Preakness was a very good field including MACHO AGAIN the G1 Stephen Foster winner over Einstein and Asiatic Boy and current top older horse so please give it a rest.

I am but a humble fan, but one who is very interested in learning from many of those on this blog who obviously possess a great deal of knowledge about horse racing, horses, and the backside.

Sometimes, it is very difficult to not get emotional about a horse, filly, gelding, or mare.  So, with that said, I will be watching and probably betting on the big races coming up this weekend.  And, I will most likely lose.  But, I don't care, because once in a while I get lucky.  

As far as Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra, I am just thankful they have made it this far in the season healthy and as champions.  What more can you ask for, when you consider all the injuries that have befallen so many others.

I also have to say I love the Birds,  just have to respect what they have accomplished.

Thank you all for the knowledge and experience you share, it is much appreciated.  I just have to relate my thoughts to you so  you don't get swallowed up in the negativity that permeates from a very few on this and other blogs.

Shawn P. me talk down to people ? I think you have me confused with someone else.  It just drives me nuts that when people run out of excuses or see that Rachel is setting a new standard and having one of the best 3 year old seasons in many years that people rush to the last resort and claim the competition isn't as good as it was in the past.  Its just a complete joke and gets old.  Let's not marvel at a miracle horse lets bring her down a knotch by claiming the competition is not very good.  Lol... never mind this is a FILLY doing all of this. Geez.

Let's speak the truth:  Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta are two amazing female horses.  For those who like Rachel best, you must respect Zenyatta.  If you prefer Zenyatta, give Rachel her props.  They are special race horses who make this sport even more enjoyable.  Enjoy them while we can!  Rivalries are great in sports, right now this rivalry is only on paper. I wonder what the BCS thinks...who is #1?  Let the 'friendly' debate continue...

Thomas,

    I know her trainer says that she hates synthetics, but give me one reason why any trainer in their right mind would run a horse on a surface they know their horse hates. The answer is none. For one it's dangerous because if a horse cant get a good grip of the surface or is frustrated and stressed about trying to get a hold of the surface that increases the chance of injury, especially when you have a 17 hand 1200lbs animal galloping 35-40mph around. If the owner and trainers really cared about her why would they risk her, why not run her on dirt where they have said she is more comfortable, lessening her chance of injury. The fact that her trainer says that she does not like synthetics, yet he risks her by constanly running her on them does not add up.

schabelli, John is a former marine who served in Viet Nam. He's a very nice gentleman. Doesn't really like to speak (Jerry, who IS very well spoken does most of that).

A lot of trainers don't have the gift of gab, just the gift of horsemanship.

There are those with both the ability to speak who are articulate AND great trainers.

Remember most of these guys started doing this when there wasn't a lot of coverage and only the biggest got on TV. The ones who were and are well spoken (of course then, THEY were accused of being arrogant. So it's a lose/lose proposition).

Personally I think both the filly and the mare are beautiful, the mare just a bit more and with a real personality.

I also think the little gelding is such a hard tryer and has such a big heart.

Summer Bird is a huge colt and just exudes good health.

If I could have my pick of them, it'd be a tough choice. Why? Because those are the types of horses we owners and trainers too, search for every single time we buy one.

I just don't get WHY people who aren't owners of the horses feel a need to so vehemently trash the others. We talk about it on the track but we don't run down others.

What joy does it give a racing fan to run them down.

schabelli, what gives YOU the right to call John a goof? You don't know him do you?

Greg, yes, like I said earlier in the blog, the return of Pyro, the Schuylerville and the full cards? Should be a very exciting day at the Spa on Wednesday and well, every day is amazing up there. Can't wait.

The fact of the matter is, RA did win the Preakness at the distance it is always run.  MTB did not beat her and almost doesn't count in horse racing.  She won.  End of story.

Ok, you people with the how many fillies are looking to belittle RA. Heres a question for all of you why don't all you RTR fans go back a couple of years. Everyone was so impressed with her win over a tired Curlin and HS, yes tired, since they ran in all three jewls, and she got five weeks rest. Everyone was so astonished, no filly had won the race for over 100 years. Well why don't you look up how many fillies were entered in that too, i'll bet you not even 20, out of 100 years. Makes RTR win look a lot less impress too. Now see how stupid that sounds. RTR is a fantastic filly and deserves credit for winning that race, as does RA for her Preakness win. You may say well rags had it hard because she went wide and stumbled at the gate. Well RA won from the far outside post of 13 which has never been done, got pushed wide and got into a speed duel with one of the top three 3yr old sprinters in the country. Both had to deal with different things and both are great fillies who deserve credit for their wins.

In 1972, there were two outstanding mares, each of whose owners thought was the best. So the owners each put up $100,000, and host race track added $50,000 for a match race. The race between Convenience and Typecast at Hollywood Park was thrilling (see it on Youtube) and a great moment in sports that year. OK, owners of Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta, time to step up the the plate. And how about a neutral location in the middle of the country, like Churchill Downs, as the venue?

I was just thinking the other day, wouldn't it be cool if after the Haskel JJ tried RA on turf, in say the Garden City? JJ seems to love doing things differently, plus i don't think he would take his million dollar filly out of a grade one. The Garden City fits for a first turf try. Being at Belmont and 9 furlongs. If she won that that would give her a Grade one win on two surfaces enhancing her already brilliant record. Also, she could show up for the BC and not have to run on synthetics. She could then run in the Yellow Ribbon for fillies or if JJ wanted a turf against boys he could run in the Clement Hirsh Turf, both are run at 10 furlongs. After that she could run in the BC F&M Turf or BC Turf. It wouldn't be hard on her, seeing as how the Garden City is on the Sept 12, giving her 51 days to recover and prepare after the Haskell. The ribbon is on Oct 10, and the Hirsh Turf on the 11th, giving her almost a complete month. The come the BC races on the 6 or 7 of november again almost giving RA a month to get ready. I know this is but a day dream but hey, its a good day dream.

90Proof,

You may be right. I am curious as to why a 5 year old horse has only run 11 times.  Maybe she has some soundness issues or maybe not.  She's incredible when she's on the track and I hope she retires undefeated.  She's a joy to watch.

I love to watch RA too but what upsets me is how everyone has to belittle Zenyatta or Rachel depending on who their favorite is.

We've been given a great gift in these two brilliant horses.  Why can't we give them both their due?

Why must one be better than the other?  We will never know for sure so why argue about it?

I picked summer bird in the belmont and helped wax draynay.  I love him, but I don't believe he has the style for Monmouth; I would have run him at Saratoga.  (Hope I misread this race)

StardustyRose:

53 fillies have run in the Preakness since 1875, the first year a filly ran. Since 1909, 31 fillies have run.  

90 Proof Put the bottle down--Zen is ALL THAT....LMaris A "coddled" mare isn't racing in Gr I's as a five year old! As soon as those "big bad" Eastern horses come out and try her (everyone's invited, she's in Cali...), you can really see just how "coddled" that unbelievable mare is.....

Eleven races in a year and a half---all wins, most crushing wins....began career late 3yo....large horses can take a while to develop---They took their sweet time with her and look what they got...for 70K....a specimen who runs like she's in her own race, passing them all, time after time after time....

While I continue to extoll platitudes upon The Great Zenyatta, because she is all that, complete with paddock dance and, post parade slow-strut.....How CAN'T I see the greatness in her three year old counterpart--Rachel is trying the boys again, and I don't care if it's up her wheelhouse, 1 1/8 is the same distance for them all--and she gets no easy foes this time! I love Summer Bird, made a bit of pocket change on his Belmont, and I would play him again v Rachel, having said that, I would root for the filly....

Some of these comments sujesting SB will beat RA are laughable. Monmouth is a speed favoring track, and SB is a deep closer, against RA who has buckets of speed. Also, in the Preakness, MTB who is a monster closer could not even catch RA after she had been pushed wide in the first turn and caught up in a speed dual and this is a 1 3/16, what makes you people think Summer Bird can do it at 1 1/8? Some say because Munnings may pressure her. Again Big Drama, who may be a better sprinter than Munnings was up there dueling RA in the Preakness and she still held off MTB. Also her MG shows her rating, though considering she was only three lengths off the other two horses she was running pretty fast herself. SB may be growing and maturing, but so is RA. SA and JJ have been preparing her this time for the competition that these colts will bring, unlike when she barely had time to get ready for the Preakness. Everything points to her winning this race and to think Munnings can run her off her feet when BD couldn't, and then SB can run her down when MTB couldn't is niave. MTB and BD had a longer distance to push her over and they still could not wear her down. What makes anyone think that these two can at an even shorter distance.

Tim G, you go!! Loved what you said about John Shirrefs. I thought he did just fine in that interview and was emminently likeable. Loved how he interacted with the horse. Also, if he was a Marine in Vietnam, that just gives me one more reason to like him. I saw Zenyatta on ESPN too and was just in awe.

Rachel is beautiful too. Love them both. I think she will not run away in the Haskell and will have some competiton even if she wins. It won't be a waltz.

Freetex:

You're right.  A lot of people on this blog possess as great deal of knowledge about horse racing.....

Unfortunately.....DRAYNAY IS NOT ONE OF THEM!!!!!

DRAYNAY:

It's about time you give it a rest.  Go stand in front of your mirror and tell yourself that 'you the man'.

Draynay:

Sorry.....

Last year's Preakness was very ordinary, except for Big Brown, another one of your wonder horses (actually I was high on him too).

Macho Again was a G-1 winner THIS YEAR in the Stephen Foster, but only because of the fact that Einstein was in traffic trouble throughout the stretch.

If you think that this year's Preakness was a tough field.....Dream on.  Like I have stated many times.....you just don't sem to get it and when the wheel comes off of Rachel's wagon (if it does I for one won't be gloating), just what wagon are you going to jump on next?

One Race after the Breeder's Cup Classic called The World Filly & Mare Classic Invitational held at Hialeah Park with a guaranteed purse of at least $2,000,000. The Distance 1 3/16 Miles on the dirt. Invites to include Zentyatta, Rachel Alexandra, Stardom Bound, Goldikova, Life Is Sweet, Seattle Smooth, Miss Isella, One Caroline, etc. Just a full field of the best females our sport has to offer at the worlds most beautiful track.

If Brunetti is going to make Hialeah a comeback story, then what a better way of showing it off.  It will most likely never happen, but just a nice thought of how we can bring our sport back to the public eye.

Freetex,

When is your birthday?  Serious question...

FYI

colonel john is scheduled to race

friday on the turf, and well armed is scheduled to race on sunday,at

delmar.

Stardusty:

1903 - Flocarline

1906 - Whimsical

1915 - Rhine Maiden

1924 - Nellie Morse

2009 - Rachel Alexandra

No match races...only ever saw one...that was plenty for a lifetime.

"It just drives me nuts that when people run out of excuses or see that Rachel is setting a new standard and having one of the best 3 year old seasons in many years that people rush to the last resort and claim the competition isn't as good as it was in the past.  Its just a complete joke and gets old."  

Draynay 27 Jul 2009 4:56 PM

Ya draynay you would never "rush to the last resort" and claim Secratariat's competition (i.e. Onion,Swaos,etc.) weren't any good. You are such a hypocryte and it's a complete joke and has been old for a long time. You are the classic case of selective memory. The more you say the more you contradict what you have said earlier. It's like watching a bad re-run of an old old show.

You yourself are guilty of running down RA's competition as much or more than anyone else. Isn't it you who keeps railing against the "Freak" or "Derby Mud Winner" or whatever derogatory name you choose to call Mine That Bird today? And to think he came within a diminishing length of beating RA. Don't be playing holier than thou when you do the same thing you now call a joke. I see the month hiatus and the whipping these in your words "amateur hadicappers" gave you only fueled your anger towards others. Go ahead and argue with them all, I find it amusing that in the end you forget what you have said before and end up arguing with yourself as well.

DonW,

Good idea but it doesn't have a snowballs chance in the Congo. As for your "neutral" site CD forget that one. RA has already showed an affinity for that quirky surface. If it was to happen it should go somewhere like Canterbury Park which neither has run over and plays pretty fair as racetracks go. Also a match race in this case would take one of the two completely out of their element and put them at a distinct disadvantage. They both posess different running styles so a match race is not the answer. You need a full field of quality versitile runners to really get to the answer. Face it, not going to happen so enjoy both of them while you can and choose your own favorite.

Soldier Course,

So what you are really saying is that if only 31 Fillies have run in the Preakness since 1909 (and 53 in history)then the percentage of winners by entrants for Fillies is far greater than the Colts. That makes it not so much a big deal. Maybe they ought to enter more of the top Fillies in the future.

"Last years Preakness was a very good field including MACHO AGAIN the G1 Stephen Foster winner over Einstein and Asiatic Boy and current top older horse so please give it a rest."

Draynay 27 Jul 2009 4:42 PM

Macho Again was no where near the horse in the 2008 Preakness he is today. His next race he was whipped by 11 lengths making his Preakness runnerup finish a "fluke" at the time and proving the poor quality of competition the Preakness really had. His 2009 victories over others don't change the fact that in May 2008 he wasn't so tough. That is something draynay just doesn't have the ability to comprehend. As for the rest of the field being very good at the time what has Da Tara done since then? For that matter whatever happened to the Maiden Guadacanal who whipped the KY Derby winner that day too? Ichabad Crane? Racecar Rhapsody? Stevil? KY Bear? Het Byrn? The list goes on and I just don't see any that are top G1 quality this year much less last May. Give it a rest draynay, big brown lost to everyone of a group of an allowance class or less horses last May. Some have gone on to improve after the fact but weren't anywhere near G1 quality back then.

The belittling ISN'T being done to RA, LDP. It's certain people running down MTB and Zenya (as John calls her), Summer Bird and anyone else that 'certain' people feel the need to run down to 'build' their own selection up.

REAL racing FANS and REAL race trackers, can appreciate every horse for their individual worth to their connections. It's fine to say I like this one better than that one, or my horse can beat your horse (if you actually HAVE one on the track) but for some to make snide remarks constantly or to call them names is what irritates REAL fans and REAL race trackers.

I don't think one person who likes Zenyatta, MTB or Summer Bird better than Rachel has called RA ANY derogatory names. I don't think that enhances racing's image one little bit.

Also, what was so amazing about Rags victory was A. the distance and B. the stumble to her knees at the start of the race.

If you KNOW about racing you know that a stumble like that loses a horse several lengths and most amazingly, Johnny V who has some gate issues, stayed on.

Like I said there's a big difference in 12 furlongs and 9.5 furlongs and both races the historical fillies won at shorter distances. With the Belmont being a furlong shorter and the Preakness being half a furlong shorter in the old days.

A BIG difference in the Belmont because you have a tired 3 year old getting that last couple furlongs in a race going further than they've gone to date. (Remember most of them are running in the KY Derby at 10 furlongs or 1 1/4 for the first time as well since the major preps are at 9 furlongs (1 1/8 mi).

So that is what makes Rags race just a bit more impressive to racing aficionados. Not discounting Rachel at all but truthfully what casual fan will remember Rags winning that historic race or Rachel winning hers in 20 years?

Personally, I love both mares and think they are both great for the sport...however, they could not be more different. 2Yrs difference in age is a huge factor as why I prefer not to see them run together. A lot of difference in maturity.

To me, Zenyatta is the more beautiful and with way more interesting personalty quirks. RA is a whole different ballgame she is a powerhouse that prefers to run and not play with opponents. In all of this discussion @ the 2 mares, what speed records has Zenyatta ever set? Therein lies the key. If you had to pick one,flip a coin. Anyone should love to have either one.

LDP,

I think the turf idea is a great one for Rachel!!  I am going to the Breeders' Cup this year and any plan that would get her there in any of the races has my interest and support.  Besides, as you say, it would be great for her record and her legacy, and I believe that she really can do just about anything.

I am crushed!!! How can these owners be so unsporting as to deny racing fans the greatest race of the year - Zenyatta vs. Rachel A.? This is why our sport is fading away before our eyes - they know the public wants to see this face-off, like Sea Biscuit and War Admiral way back when, but they just don't care. And a golden opportunity to draw new fans to racing is being totally wasted.  What a disappointment...

Okay first off both Rachel and Zenyatta are amazing animals.  it is extreamly difficult for anyone to try and figure out who is better.  I personally believe that Zenyatta is the better horse. While everyone is booing her for not racing the boys she has proven herself against very tough older horses were as Rachel has never racing an older horse.  This may seem trivial but its not about boys and girls but about experiance and luck.  If i had a horse like Zenyatta I would not have raced her this year period so lets be gratefull we are even seeing her and think about the amazing foals she could have been giving us.  As for a match race stupid idea.  Two horses is not a race it a death match espeshally over such a long distance as the two would have to race.  Personally I would like to be able to see exactly how good Rachel is.  Zenyatta is not going to risk getting hurt and neither is Rachel.  As far as I'm concerned Zenyatta is still the champion and generally the challenger goes to the champion so if Rachel wants to prove herself she should go to Zenyatta.  Hopefully Zenyatta will redeem herself with other racing fans who believe she is taking the "easy" way in the last few races of her career.  And hopefully we will see much more or Rachel Alexandra but lets not forget neither horse are actually unbeaten.  

i would love 2 see a match race , between zenyatta and rachel. the track the owners and fans could put up the money. the fans donate if anything, what ever they want, which would go into the prize money.     LDP, GOOD IDEA.  

1:50 7/28/09

draynay thats when i just got your comment.

sharp cat, go for wand,saratoga dew, riboletta, proud delta, deserts vixen, inside information, lakeway,    orartory , slew o gold, secretariat all won at belmont at a 1 1/8 beating 1:47. i know rachel ran a 1:47.

LDP

im assuming its because shes just been winning and that she never showed signs of hurting  but that could be the reason why she was a late 3 year old.

In addition to beating Ginger Punch on dirt last year, Zenyatta repeatedly beat Tough Tiz's Sis went on to win a Grade I at Saratoga and the Oaks race in NM.  I think that form ought to be weighed as well.  The California filly competition looks a lot tougher when you realize how good that horse was.  I say it is way too early to be handing out HOY votes based on hypotheticals anyway.

"Must be why we have to watch Rachel run against 2 overmatched fillies in a pathetic race I couldn't even watch, it was so ridiculous and this is your next HOY. A filly who wins the Preakness over a bum field of colts is now the next Ruffian.  When does this madness end.??"

Whatever 27 Jul 2009 7:55

For what it is worth, I think that Summer Bird will defeat RA in the Haskell this Sunday.  I believe SB will also win the Travers at SAR.

If he then wins the BC classic, SB should be the HOY.  This is a very well bred, solid horse that has been underated and is getting to the top of his game.  Look out RA down the stretch if she has some early company in the Haskell.

The way I see it is, Zenyetta is the older horse and is undefeated. If I owned her, everyone would have to pursue me. Nobody puts their foot on the surface of the track. The only one is the horse. Personally, I think the best horses are the versatile ones that run on dirt, artificial, and grass of all types. Now the argument is which horse should win HOY if all remains as is. In the grand scheme of things, the 3YO schedule is more conducive to the classics and more notable races. With Rachel having won the KY Oaks and the Preakness, she would have a leg up on HOY. Inasmuch as the better horse, maybe that will never be proven. If all stays as is thru the rest of the season, Zenyetta wins the rest of her races and Rachel wins the rest of their races, the difference will be Zenyetta will have never had a horse in front of her at the wire. Yet, we have to get to those points. That is why they run the races. Now in my opinion, the best horses are in Europe. They travel the farthest, They run on all surfaces, and they are usually right there for the prize. What beats them is the same that would beat a Rachel or a Zenyetta, the first race on a different track. Now this is where the trainers and jockeys come in, they are a part of this you know. Notice that there is no mention of an owner deciding the outcome of a race. Their only contribution is admission or omission.

Sorry (thomas) but not one of them ran a 146 being eased 200 yards before the wire but thanks for playing. gw_bushwacker did you not see the 2008 Jim Dandy Stakes ? Macho Again was a very good horse last year but it was tough with Big Brown around.  Without him around Macho Again now rules the older division. So you can claim all you want the Preakness was weak last year but the facts don't support that opinion. Draynot you have things confused.  I did say Secretariat beat a bunch of weak 3 year old horses and lost to average horses but I never said he didn't face ANY good horses.  The fact is unless Rachel Alexandra runs against Secretariat's and Ruffian's ghost she will never be considered better than them by you protectors of the past.  Facts hurt you guys every time.  For example when she wins the Haskell she will have more G1 wins on dirt this year than Secretariat had his ENTIRE CAREER.

This is all turning into one big joke.

The only reason RA is going to get HoY is because she's a filly and the horse racing community feels they still "owe" Jess Jackson for keeping Curlin in training.

And talking about filly's. Fact is, while these horses are "great" by American standards, neither could have beat Zarkava when she was in training.

Heck, if Jess Jackson hadn't lost his nerve and sent Curlin to the 'Arc like he said he was going to do, Zarkava would have even had HIM for lunch.

All one big joke.

I mean i don't even care aboput HOY---Zenyatta, everytime she runs...it's an event like no other....the paddock dance.. the slow strut in the post [parade...the passing of horses---I mean Zenyatta closes from far back--it has started to become an all-consuming thing--to watch that mare, way in the back.....and against Rail Trip, in the Pac Classic, over a track that has been playinhg fair to speed....the suspense increases!....It's the WAY she does it that sets her ap-art--Zenyatta is all that, no doubt...Jess showed his hand, they're not coming, enjoy whats left, Zenyatta!

LDP Agreed, Rachel has an edge, when you factor in thwe track variant, blah blah....Summer Bird is a late developing three year old,  on top of his game, and Rachel will have her hooves full with him....Munnings insures an honest pace, and I applaud Team Rachel for their guts---I don't care if it's "only" the Haskell---1 1/8 is the same distance for them all....as for The Travers, I am against trying males at 1 1/4 for both Zenyatta AND Rachel, I think they both may lose and they really should be trying each other!!

I do not remember Spectacular Bid being criticized for his walkover win in the Woodward.  Scaring off your competition is an ultimate sign of respect.  When is the last time we have seen a top colt being sent somewhere else to avoid his female counterpart.  I am speaking of Big Drama and we will see how good he is on Saturday.

Just a reminder of some of the crap draynay was tossing around last year. Then if you didn't show up for the Breeders Cup and run in the Classic you didn't deserve mention for HOY. When it looked like Curlin wasn't going to make the trip to the Cup he was all about that if you didn't go you didn't deserve the reward. Now that RA won't be headed anywhere near the Breeders Cup or Zenyatta it doesn't matter? Oh how things change on a whim for this guy. When you exist to bicker with others that's what you get.

Don't get me wrong, I have RA right up there at or near the top for HOY at this point too. I'd still consider her right there if she continues to win based on where she goes the rest of the year and who she faces. My point is why would anybody take seriously what this guy says when he changes sides on his opinions based on who he likes on a given day? Guess it makes for a more lively blog but that's about it.

"... champions show up on championship day."

"Remember where you heard it."

Draynay 14 Aug 2008 5:48 PM  

"The BC Championship will be decided on Poly.  A true champion can run on any surface."

draynay 05 Aug 2008 10:49 PM

"Champions show up on Championship days"

draynay 06 Aug 2008 12:00 PM

TexSpect,

    Normally i would agree with you, but on the fact that though Curlin was the older horse last year, and still ppl put pressure on JJ to pursue BB, and now just up and switch back to back to 3yr olds must chase older horses is down right hypocritical. I think that is mainly why JJ isn't listening to the public, because they can turn so easily. My beilief is that if you want an eclipes award like champ older horse or HOTY you have to beat the defending champ. The reason i go that way is because that horse has been crowned champion so in order to dethrone them you must beat them. JJ is after HOTY, not best female older horse, since RA can't win that divisional award. Zenyatta was not last year's champ as HOTY, therefore, the way i see it she does not have to seek her out and beat her. If Zenyatta had been named HOTY i would've said yes RA does have to seek her out. But there is no defending HOTY around this year, so basicly it is who ever was either the best and most dominant divisional champion, or the horse who dominated their division and then went above that into other divisions. RA has done that. She has dominated her filly division of three year olds and then went up to the 3yr old boys and beat them their. Zenyatta is dominant, but only in her own division and so far this year only in her own state. Basicly right now i believe that the horse with the best year and who overcomes more challenges will win. You also mention that if all comes down to both winning their races for the rest of the year you'd go with Zenyatta, or at least it seemed you implied that, because she is unbeaten. Well thats all well and great, but since we take one year at a time and judge HOTY based on that year alone, then RA for this year would be undeafted aswell, never having a single horse male or female in front of her this year. This again would come down to the amount of challenges a horse has taken. Since RA is already in the Haskell and in your senario both win all their races this year i'm including that. Zenyatta's connections have yet to reveal if she is going to run against colts so i am assuming all her wins are against her own sex. Looking at this I see RA who went twice against the boys and won in the Haskell and Preakness, then has wins against her own sex. Zenyatta still only has wins against the older fillies and mares. This is as of now and we all know a lot can change between now and December.

Thomas,

    I think they said one of the reasons she was late as a three year old is that when the got her she had a bad skin condition. Then after that because she was so big and still growing the took it slower with her to let her kind of mature and grow into herself. That is what i heard.

Hey first time blogger here. What's the big deal Zenyatta is a great mare and was a great filly, her wins are her wins. Racheal A. is a great filly.  Since when do we ladies have to race against the boys?? HOY do we remember who beat Curlin at Belmont and he was HOY 2 times? RAGS to Riches baby. We got some talent in both sexes let them race. And there will NEVER be another RUFFIAN she broke the mold.

Tim G,

    PPl who don't like RA run down the competition she has faced to belittle her accomplishment. The fact ppl run down horses to make the other look better, directly or indirectly goes both ways. On you Preakness vs Belmont i would normally agree with you, but what makes them equal to me is RA was put through a lot more in her race IMO. She was force very wide the first turn had a post no horse in history has won from, dueled with BD one of the best 3yr old sprinters in the country and still held off a deep closer in MTB, and a very good deep closer. Another thing is she beat them off the same amount of rest. RTR did stumble at the start, but at a 1 1/2 that doesn't really do all that much. Ppl will also say she was pushed wide on the first turn, which is true, but it gave her a clear path with nothing to stop her mommentum, when Curlin was bottled down on the inside and had to bull his way through horses to make his run. RTR also beat them with more rest than them. She had five when the top contenders in that feild had only three, after running two hard races in 2 weeks befor that. Now the fact that the feild in the Belmont was more impressive than this years preakness and that RTR won going that long of a distance makes both filly's wins in each jewl the equal in my eyes.

the_wiz,

    How do you get that 4 out of 53 fillies in the history of the Preakness gives them a better winning percentage than the colts. Out of fifty three fillies four have won. That does not bode well when colts have won the other 70 or so runnings of it.

Pam S,

    Thanks. I was just busy daydreaming and got to thinking well JJ said he wouldn't go to the Cup to race on synthetics, but why not go there to run on turf. Plus as of now it is a neutral site. What if Zen was going to go a turf race and won. Both then could be pointed for the F&M turf or even better the BC Turf. Oh darn my imagination, you got it going again.

Hey Draynot:

I wonder what the GREAT I AM'S' next bandwagon is going to be.  He might even have to find another one after this weekend.  I just feel bad for Rachel because alot of negative comments about her are solely because of Draynay

Draynot,

       Agree 100 Percent on Dray!!!  It is laughable, His comments have no logic to them, He changes his stance more then the weather.  Then when someone points it out, He comes up with lame excuses or just ignores those comments that prove him wrong, over and over....Thanks for going back and finding his contradictions....

LDP, no, comparing competition is the way you determine a horses accomplishments.

Running them down or belittling them as you put it is calling them flukes or pretenders or whatever else some have chosen to call them.

You've done your fair share of analyzing Zenyatta's inferior opponents (by your estimate), running in Cal and others as well.

Some of the Pretenders on this blog should actually come out and support racing. Come to the Spa (it may rain today but who cares, it's still sensational) or go ANYWHERE to support racing and actually BET, that helps us a lot.

Actually, you may study racing, but ASK someone who is an expert what a difference it makes to lose a couple lengths in a 12 furlong race. The filly had to alter her running style and give extra effort to regain those lengths she lost. In a race where they've never run that far and are extending themselves to the max that they've ever done? Takes quite a bit out of them and makes those last couple furlongs seem like miles.

It's obvious in a sprint but much more subtle yet those of us it's happened to KNOW it makes a difference. A lot of horses that like to run up closer to the pace will just give up and ANY extra physical taxing takes something out of a horse. Why do you think we're concerned when a horse acts up in the paddock or in the post parade. They're expending energy that is best conserved for the race. The law of physics and physiology.

draynot, lest you forget the very unimportant Travers, which has now become ultra important and if she wins it she's the greatest according to YOU KNOW WHO, yet running against the same horses for BB last year proved nothing per your advisary (especially since she's just going to run up against the 'fluke' as he calls him)?

That race is important EVERY year. Those people like him and the others who say it isn't? Like someone called them once, neophytes.

And no Draynay that has NOTHING to do with religion it the context it was used then or now.

LDP,

This is how.

"the percentage of winners by entrants for Fillies is far greater than the Colts."

The percentage BY ENTRANTS is going to be far greater for Fillies. 4 winners from how many filly entrants vs 70 winners from how many colt entrants. If only 20 fillies ( I don't know the actual number)have entered the Preakness over the years that would be 4/20 winners or 20% of Fillies entered win. If 40 have entered that's still 1 of 10 entered win. The colts can never match that percentage.

You can't count races when no Fillies were entered. The fairest way to compare is by number of entrants, by sex, by winners.

That's why I said they should regularly enter the best Fillies in the Triple Crown Races every year. They win a higher percentage of the time than colts by entries.

I would much rather have seen Zenyatta run in the 2008 KY Derby, Preakness, and Belmont than some of the sorry lot that ran last year.

draynay,

You still don't get it. Macho Again has improved by light years from the sorry competition he was when he faced the big ole browneye. If they faced off now he'd bury brownie by 10. That wasn't the case last year. big brown faced him when he was not so good and to top it off brownie was on the juice. That's my point. Just because Macho Again has improved doesn't fatten brownies resume. The big ole browneye never beat Macho Again at his best. The Detroit Tigers are in first place this year because they are a much improved team. It doesn't make those who finished above them last year great when the Tigers reaked at the time.

I agree with alot of your all's comments in that with the way things are going we'll never really know how good Zenyatta is. Chances are, she'll be retired after this year without ever facing the boys OR Rachel Alexandra. Although her victories have been impressive (even if her competition isn't), and her record is perfect, she isn't completely breath-taking and her wins haven't been complete blow-outs like Rachel Alexandra's. When was the last time she won by 20+? Don't get me wrong --- She's still definitely one of my favorites, and she's definitely an amazing racehorse (HOTY material? Maybe not). A match race would be fantastic, and would probably draw a whole lot of attention from fans everywhere, but I think it's time to face the realization --- it's not going to happen. And even if it did, my money is still on Rachel.

the wiz,

    I'm not a math person so i'm not quite following you. My thing is that you can't say because more colts enter than fillies, they have a higher winning percentage. In that case in every female race fillies have a horrible win rate in theire own races. You have to look at how many fillies have won, ever. That is only five, out of fifty three. That means that colts won the other forty eight times. Same as in any other race a filly has challenged a colt. RA was the fifth filly ever to win the Preakness while only four before her out of fifty three ever been entered. Colts have the higher win rate.

Tim G,

    I have seen other say how inferior RA's cometition is to show how inferior she is to Zenyatta. The belittling goes both ways. I never said i didn't do it, i've will admit i have state that i don't think MANY, not all of the horses Zenyatta has face were completely outclassed by her. People say RA has face nor beaten nobody. Well Dream Empress, Sarha Louis, Flying Spur, and Just Jenda are no slouches. Like Zenyatta, many of RA has not face a great number of fantastic horses, but she has face some that were pretty good in their own right. You Belmont argument i still don't agree with. You have plenty of time in a race of it's length, plus it's typically run slower that other races, making it easier to gallop up and get yourself reposistioned. Especially with how slow they went that year. I think the six furlong time was like 1.15 or something right around there. That is slow. If the Belmont were shorter like a mile or maybe less, and had a larger field i can see how it would be costly. An example is Henny Huges. He was the favorite for the BC Sprint, but that break just totaled his chances. He never had a chance to regain position because the race was too short, and the field was so big. Plus, the fact that a sprint is run faster requires a horse to exert more energy to regain position. In a race as long as the Belmont, run as slow as it was in 07, and in a much smaller field, it made RTR job much easier to do.

the_wiz:

I'll let you do the math, but yes, the percentages look impressive for the fillies.

Okay LDP I'll tell three Hall of Fame trainers that you don't agree with them.

Do you understand the dynamics of physics?

Any time you make a correction or expend additional energy you do JUST that. Expend energy you would not have otherwise expended.

The glaring difference in a sprint is you have less distance to make your correction therefore you have to have a burst of energy to do so. That is why you SELDOM see a horse that sticks it's nose in the dirt, WIN a sprint or even a distance race, note War Emblem in the Belmont. Why? His running style, get to the front and stay there. NOt at a killer pace but just be at the front. The difference between the two types of races is you've already run further than your competition at a high rate of speed. Just like a human at the end of a distance race, your lungs are burning and the lactic acid is starting to build up in your muscles. It may not make as big of a difference as a sprint would, but it is very rare that ANY horse wins when it goes totally to its knees. Also it changes the race for your competition when anything goes amiss or the pace of the race changes or whatever may occur out of the norm.

Bottom line is, winning the Belmont is TOUGH. It's a race these 3 year olds never dreamed of running and will probably never run again. It's a race that frankly, Jess didn't want to put Rachel through.

As far as the sloooowwwwww time? 8 of Belmonts in the 15 year time period up to and including 07 were slower than hers. Those whose times she beat were no slouches, Afleet Alex, Touch Gold, Etc.

A distance race is usually not the same splits as a shorter race. It takes a rare horse to set killer early splits and finish out in 23 and 5/8 in a 12 furlong race. Rags ran against Curlin and some other VERY nice horses.

On the belittling issue? I don't see analyzing the competition as belittling the horse who is running against other horses. It is belittling those competitors only if you call them names or demean them.

Belittling as I said is making THAT specific horse look like a lesser horse by calling it names, demeaning its position in the world of racing (usually by people who have NO ACTUAL EXPERIENCE in THE world of racing). Almost nobody on the track disrespects Rachel, almost nobody on the track respects anyone who demeans a horse who has proven itself and has won a boatload of money.

THAT is why everyone got so perturbed with Rick Dutrow last year. His total disrespect for his fellow trainers and the horses he was running against.

You guys slay me. You have NO idea how hard it is to win ANY race, let alone one of the classics if you don't have or haven't had a race horse. I don't care what kind of horse show 'event' you participate in. Because horse shows are subjective, speed events in rodeo and horse racing are NOT.

Tim G,

    Maybe i'm wrong but i'm detecting a very superior attitude coming from you, and honestly one way to really get under my skin is act superior to me. I don't care whether you are or not, you don't need to flaunt it around to make others feel inferior to you. You want to call cross country and show jumping subjective, you are wrong. You want to try to do what some of us hard core jumper show people do and see if you can keep up, be my guest. You want to do it dealing with what i have to deal with each time i get on a horse do it. It's the reason i people say i can't handle on farm work, why i get hurt, yet i'll climb on a 1200 pound animal and get it done no matter how much it hurts, so don't even dare say anything about the effort it takes to perfect and prepare yourself to ride a perfect course, get the best time, know where to cut time, how tight to cut a turn, or how fast to take a jump, so you can ride the fastest cleanest course, subjective or not it takes a lot of effort for those of us who actually do go out and try our best.

    On your little hall of fame bit, go ahead and tell them what i think, untill you go and actually provide me with something solid, i'm not going to budge, and could really care less what you say, or anyone else for that matter. My point is not on the time itself as a whole in the Belmont i'm talking about the pace, and it was as the announcer called it pedestrian. I've run track, and honestly for me a person who likes distance, the slower i go in the begining, i don't care where i'm positioned at, the more i have left over to give a burst at the end. Loosing a length or two at the start of a mile and a half race does not hinder you that much, because you have so much time to correct your mistake. War Emblem was inflexible, that is why he lost, RTR was not, she did not NEED the lead at all, she could rate. What is needed in a race of that length is patience, and when you have a horse like RTR who is willing to lay back and be patient, that type of start doesn't matter. An example this year is IWR. Broke way way worse than RTR, had less distace to correct his mistake, yet because of his willingness to be patient he was able to lay back and make a run. War Emblem was not willing and that is why he got beat. RTR was willing, and because of that she still got a pretty decent trip and won. You can argue with me all you want but honestly i'm not budging, i've said it time and time again, if i have something stuck in my head your not going to persuade me unless you have some cold hard facts. On this and your belittling thing i'm happy to agree to disagree, cause honestly i don't agree with you on that either. People were't just anyalizing, they said RA has face a bunch of inferior fillies, as well as it has been said about Zenyatta. People have call the preakness horses weak, PC is not weak, niether is MTB, BC, or MM. For fillies, FS, JJ, SL, and DE aren't weak fillies. If RA weren't around JJ and FS probably would've been the favorites of the oaks. Calling a horse weak or inferior is not just anyalizing, especially when used in an argument to show how another horse is not as good as anothers favorite. I am not accusing you of it, i never have and won't call anyone out, but it does go both ways. Whether your going to accept that or not is your choice, and i don't think you will, which is why i said i'd be happy to agree to disagree.

"Macho Again was a very good horse last year but it was tough with Big Brown around.  Without him around Macho Again now rules the older division. So you can claim all you want the Preakness was weak last year but the facts don't support that opinion."

Draynay 28 Jul 2009 11:32 PM

If you believe this crap it's a good thing for Rachael Alexandra thet Songstress who whipped her by over 8 lengths last year, Best Lass who whipped her by 5 1/2 last year, Symbology who whipped her by 3 1/2 last year, Sara Louise who whipped her by 3 3/4 last year, and all the others who beat her last year aren't around since they made it really tough on her then.

You can't compare how a horse ran last year to this year especially young animals. RA is the perfect example. She's had a great year to this point. Last year others were far better. Same goes for Macho Again, last year he wasn't anywhere near as good as he is this year. Last years Macho Again would get whipped by this years Macho Man.

"I'm not a math person so i'm not quite following you. My thing is that you can't say because more colts enter than fillies, they have a higher winning percentage."

LDP 29 Jul 2009 5:34 PM

LDP, yes you can. This year 13 horses went to post in the Preakness if memory serves me right. 12 of 13 were colts so there was a 92.3% chance that a colt would win the race and there was a 7.7% chance a Filly would win based on the sex of the entrants. Simple as that. That is my point completely. Filly's win at a much higher percentage based on number of entrants by sex. What it tells me is that more Fillies should enter the Triple Crown Races. The best of them would be far more competitive than for instance the 18 weak colts other than Big Brown last year in the KY Derby. Oh yeah the one Filly entered proved that. In the last two years only two fillies have entered a Triple Crown Race. The result one win and one place showing. Pretty impressive percentage!! Add to that the last Filly to enter a Triple Crown Race and you have 3 entrants and 2 wins and a place showing. Even more impressive!! A 66% win ration in the biggest 3 yr old races of the year and a 100% place ratio based on total number of Fillies entered. 2/3 win, 3/3 place. The only way to prove that wrong would be to split the entrants by sex, half Fillies and half colts and see how that plays out. I think the best Fillies would hold their own every year.

Your figures are extremely misleading the way you look at it. 5/53 Preaknesses won by Fillies but how many of those 53 included Fillies? Not all of the 53 Preaknesses you are talking about had Fillies entered. There was a 0% chance for them to win those races. You can't count any of those in comparison.

LDP: You're starating to sound like Draynay.....AN EXPERT IN WHATEVER SUBJECT COMES UP AS WELL, OF COURSE, AS A DO-IT-ALL.

Why don't you just look at the facts a little more logical instead of trying to twist everything to you advantage.  When you do, then you will get it.

Wiz,

    I get where you are coming from, and kinda sorta agree with your methods. I do agree with you on the point that if more fillies entered the TC races we would probably see more winners. My point is that as of now, which kinda stinks is that they havent been. I disagee with your math because out of the 53 fillies ever entered only 5 have won. That is less than ten percent. Colts have won the other 48 times. To me that says they have a higher win ratio, or at least in the Preakness. I do agree though if more fillies at a time entered the TC races each year then we'd see more winners.

I'm at the track using a laptop so forgive me if this is not 'together', I'm techno challenged.

LDP, actually I'm just stating statistical facts and realities of the racing world. Not interjecting points based on my own happenstance outside of the subject. Not sure what all the injury stuff etc is about. Show jumping (you said you aren't a cross country jumper or an eventer before right?) You said you do equitation and that is JUDGED that is subjective.

If it comes off as being a superior attitude and you have a problem with that? Well, think you should examine your own writing and the way you address things.

You said yourself you're not a math person, well a lot of the premise I was speaking of involves mathematical equations (force, velocity etc) as well as the law of physics,statistics both of which are based on mathematics.

Todd said it affected her race and it well may have affected her physical condition as well.

But guess he really doesn't know, nor do the experts of the RACING game.

If it comes of as sounding superior to quote experts, people who actually work with the specific horse, well our ideas of superiority are different.

To me, the unyielding 'I know it' of someone who is observing from the outside comes off as acting supeior. But that's just my opinion.

As far as telling the HOF trainers?

That was sarcasm dear, I really think they'd believe I lost my mind if I commented to them about an anonymous fan on a blog comment section, who isn't a race tracker disputing their opinions on the subject. It was my way of telling you that among the experts who believe it was pretty amazing for Rags to win the race after going to her knees, were at least 3 HOF trainers.

Even though two in particular are very fan friendly and have been involved with the youth organizations like the former Kids to the Cup etc. I'll bet they never ran up against a kid like you. Those kids are thrilled with the interaction and insight they got from those guys.

As for belittling any horse? Read back on my posts, I gave props to them all. YOU 'belittled' Rags to bolster Rachel, if you believe that comparing the competition and saying other horses accomplishments were less impressive because of their competition. Hoist with your own petard.

Now I really must run, 3rd coming up.

I laughed everything peeps mention how Rachel won by 20+ lengths. Well duh..who exactly is her competition. She runs against restricted company and most of the 3 year old are unproven commodity. These are not established grade 1 horses. They might run in grade 1 for 3 year olds but that is SO DIFFERENT from OPEN GRADE 1 races. Having said that Rachel is a very good filly but GREAT?? ummm NO WAY!

Her placement at the Haskells should burst that bubble. I predict her to come third behind SB and Munnings.

Tim G,

    Never have done, never will do cross country, but though equitation is my main thing i have done show jumping many times. Also where have i belittled RTR, i give her credit for winning against the feild she did and take nothing away, all i have said is that i think the stumble was not as bad as it has been made out to look, how is that belittling a horse? If i come across superior, sorry, that is not what i mean to do. Naturally i'm blunt, hot headed and stubborn, especially when i'm not in a very good mood. If that comes across as superior, sorry. I am not a math person, but i do have an affinity for science, don't know why i like it and not math, but whatever. As far as me saying you have belittled others, no i have not, in fact i don't think i've ever seen you do it. I was saying that others from the Zen side and from the RA side both do it. I was not pointing out you specificly, and never would, i don't like to call someone out unless i actually need to. Normally i like debates, but this has turned into more of a feud, and those i'm not fond of. I can see neither of us will agree on each others points, so i'm willing to drop it and agree to disagree.

Laz,

    I am hardly an expert in everything there is, and as can be seen i'm ready to admit it. I dont twist things i state them how i see them and if i think i'm right i'm not backing off. I've been like this on blogs ever since i started, nobody noticed it because last year i was on the side the majority believed in. Now that i actually side with Dray on something, it seems people don't like my bluntness. I'm not going to change just to appease someone else, and most of you will like that when i actually start to agree with you again.

Tim G I'll go one further--I can think of NO filly/mare who has defeated older males at 1 1/4 on the main--NONE in my forty years as a fan! Some people think Zenyatta is "coddled" because they do not take that path, as if it's just the everyday thing to do! All the trash talk bravado!

LDP

I figured I'd get a rise out of you.  What's your opinion of the Haskell?  How well do you really think Rachel is going to?  Much better than MTB I hope.  I think she is going to be up against it even though, from a pace scenario, she should an advantage,  The key, of course, is Munnings.  If he is distance challenged it might be all over.  However, I have a feeling on Duke of Mischief.....why?  He hammered Sould Warrior by five very easily in the Iowa Derby and we saw how Soul Warriour stepped up today in the WVD.  Just a thought.

Laz,

    You should know by some of my past responses, that this is nowhere near how rude i can get, and i don't say that proudly. I was just saying that when you look back at when Dray and i disagreed over other issues that i got just as rude with him yet nobody took notice of that. The only time you took notice was when i agreed with him on this issue, and now you all have a problem with me. I'm suprised i didn't go off actually because my life as of now, not going to well. I'm no longer working, and no, not because i get hot headed, because physically i can't, so i'm not real happy, and i'm still wonder what the heck am i going to do now. Whatever that was way off topic, sorry i did that.

    You ask me my opinion on the Haskell, i think she'll win. I don't think it will be easy, this field is IMO deeper than the Preakness, but i think she is more prepared for it, and this go around she has had plenty of rest. SB, i have no doubt is the real deal, but he should be running longer distances, and he'll run out of ground. Munnings is hot, and he's coming off two pretty good efforts, but honestly i think BD is a better horse, speed wise at least and RA stretch him beyond his limit, plus he ducked her this go around. I can see where you come from by your point on the WVD, but i think the jock was dumb to let BD go, i think they went faster than needed, especially when you consider BD doesn't NEED the lead and he can rate. The jock could've gotten away with a 24 or 25 if he wanted and left more in the tank. SW did run a bang up race to beat him though, since BD though tired dug right back in to try and fight him off. BD to me in that race looked like last years War Pass in the Wood in the stetch, and SW was T of E. If Calvin keeps his head about him and doesn't do anything stupid or fancy RA should win today.

Hopefully, Zenyatta's connections will take a page from the success of Rachel Alexandra and look to take a more challenging path this year.  A matchup out East or at least the BC Classic?