Rachel is an absolute monster.  Not only does she keep smoking her competitors, her final times are crazy fast.  She can be on the lead, but actually seems better stalking.  She can handle any surface it seems.  Just a treat to watch.  

And that is what I always said about Mine That Bird ... good horse not great, and a slave to the trip.  One dimensional and if he doesn't get the garden trip he doesn't win.  

Jason, I totally agree with everything you said about Rachel Alexandra. Her performance was dominating, exhilarating and breathtaking at the same time. As the announcer said, she is "one for the ages." Hoty is over and its hers. Draynay was right. I am very happy for her and her connections. She is pure joy to watch. While Zenyatta is one of my favorites, I don't think she could catch Rachel even on the best of days. Rachel has another 2 gears. She is very special. She left some very good colts in the dust. I believe she may end up as the greatest filly of all time if she stays healthy.

About MTB, I won't make excuses for him. I don't need to. While winning is great, it isn't all about winning. He is still a really good horse and he is in the running every time, win, or place second or third. No, he isn't HOTY but he is a gutsy little guy and I will always root for him. He won the Kentucky Derby against some very good horses and no one can take that away from him. He is no fluke. In my opinion, no horse deserves the name of "fluke." No horse deserves contempt. That should be reserved for human beings only. Any horse who is out there laying it on the line so we can watch matchless beauty in motion, deserves nothing but respect, win or lose.

I have to say, after the Haskell, I'm not interested in Zenyatta v. Rachel at the Breeder's Cup anymore - I really want to see if Rachel can beat Sea the Stars. Of course all three would be better, but looking at Zenyatta's campaign, I doubt she will run against Rachel, Sea the Stars, Einstein, the Birds, etc. in the Classic. 1-10 odds she'll take a Stardom Bound that hasn't run a prep race. This isn't a knock on Zenyatta, only her connections. I thought on Mother Goose-Vanity weekend that Zenyatta could have caught Rachel that weekend.

I'm convinced that Rachel will definitely be better than Zenyatta by fall since she seems to be improving, but I'm unsure about Sea the Stars. Thoughts?

There's only one word to describe this year Haskell winner - OUTSTANDING... Go Girl!!!

I told you, I told you, I told you.  I said the Derby mud winner aka THE FLUKE won't win another race all year and it appears I am 100% right !  The only way for that horse to win another race is to jump into a 10k claiming race.

Rachel is the best 3 year old filly ever.  I have seen a lot of good ones over 35 years but nothing like Rachel.  I have been saying it for months and now it seems some of you want to jump on the wagon.  Well come aboard there is plenty of room for you.  I believe she is 2 wins shy of a better 3 year old campaign than Secretariat.  Rachel doesn't just beat the boys she crushes them.  To run that fast in the slop going 3 wide all the way around the track was one of the all time best performances.  Its time to call her what she is the greatest filly ever.

RA was exceptional once again and should have horse of the year all wrapped up IMO.  It may be a little too early to proclaim Kensei as a rising star.  Rising talent maybe.  Mine that Bird just did not have that kick he needed and I agree, tired of the excuses being made for him.  If what Mike Smith said is true, then he is a very one dementional horse and if the race doesn't set up for him just right, he will lose.  Good horse, but not great by any means.

"Rachel Alexandra"...

    We are watching History unfold right before are eyes,  Twenty, Fifty, A Hundred years from now, People will be saying, "I wish I was alive to see Rachel Run".  Well, All of us are lucky enough to see one of the true greats running in her prime, How lucky are all of us?  

    She is Pure Poetry in Motion, Breathtaking, Perfection, Supreme Athlete, I can go on and on!  My hats off to Dolphus Morrison, Mike Lauffer, Hal Wiggins, Jess Jackson, Steve Asmussen, and Calvin Borel.  This group has managed and handled Rachel perfectly, All with her best interests at heart, They all deserve credit for being part of the team that produced one of the Greats of our generation...

"Rachel"...

Draynay,

     Your lack of couth is so predictable.  You are so juvenile, It is embarrasing.  You act like a teenager, How old are you again?  Total lack of class...

Rachel doesn't need to carry any track around with her. She can run on dirt, the slop, synthetic (a win at Keeneland) and probably grass. Jackson is basing his dislike for synthetic tracks on Curlin's finish at last years BC. That has nothing to do with Rachel; she could handle the synthetic at Santa Anita just fine.

  "We are watching History unfold right before are eyes,  Twenty, Fifty, A Hundred years from now, People will be saying, "I wish I was alive to see Rachel Run".  Well, All of us are lucky enough to see one of the true greats running in her prime, How lucky are all of us?" - Greg J.

This exact thought crossed my mind after seeing Rachel win today. I feel incredibly lucky to have seen her do these things.

Gee Greg J it sounds like you can't stand me being so perfect.  I have been telling all who would listen how great Rachel was and all I got were lame comparisons to Ruffian and Zenyatta.  Zenyatta hasn't broken 148 this year and she is suppose to catch Rachel ?  Enough with Zenyatta, she is a state champion and that is it. Did Secretariat ever win 8 stakes races in a row ?

I could hardly breathe watching the Haskel!  Rachel Alexandra is art in motion.

Paula Higgins and Greg J are all heart, unlike the miserable Draynay.

Sorry Jason, you can't take away what the courageous Kentucky Derby winner has done for racing and will do in the future!

I read some comments on here earlier in the year that RA wasn't that good..I wonder what these fools are saying now??

I have to agree with Drahnay by saying Mine that Bird was a fluke.  But saying Rachel the best 3 year old ever.  I think not.  I really think the Haskell had a bunch of nobodys in the race.  I really think this whole year would have been different if it wasnt for all the injuries to the better horses.  Look at Quality Road and Hold me Back, if they werent injured who knows how the derby would have unfolded.  Especially the Preakness.  I think once Quality Road gets one or two races to prep with we should be looking at the Breeder's Cup Classic winner.  But as for Rachel, she already has the horse of the year wrapped up,  no denying that

I really hope this race settled the debate on Rachel vs Zenyatta .... Personally ,i like zenyatta and her connections , they don't need the embarresment . Please Mr Moss , stay away from Rachel ....

Rachel Alexandra is a Superhorse. It is that simple. The Haskell was supposed to be her toughest race, and she made a mockery of her opponents. She seems to be getting better, and that is a very scary thing considering how good she already is. Her race today was nothing short of breathtaking, and she is poetry in motion with her incredible stride. It is an honor to watch her run, and I look forward to watching her incredible campaign continue. Rachel is truly "Alexandra the Great."

Don't know if Rachel is still the princess.  I think now she is queen of all the realm.  Awesome, awesome filly and performance.  I believed she would win but I never thought she would blow past Summer Bird and Munnings so easily.  She is making it thrilling to be a fan of racing right now.

Draynay, you're slightly obnoxious, but your posts crack me up!  I don't think the "derby mud winner" as you call him is a fluke.  He may not win them all, but he sure tries.  But I will agree that RA is amazing!  Absolutely loved her race today and can't wait to watch her run again!  If only we could somehow convince her owner to let her run in the Breeder's Cup....

Just to make it clear for some, like Kat, that describing Mine That Bird as a good but not great horse is not "slamming" the horse. Seriously, how is that "slamming" him? As Jason so well summarized, Mine That Bird is a tough, gritty horse, but he has serious limitations and is basically a one-dimensional late runner who needs pace meltdowns for his half-mile run to be effective at the higest levels.  That's a long way from calling him a "fluke".

By the way, I was someone who drove 4 hours one-way to see Mine That Bird in the West Virginia Derby. As with many, I truly appreciate what an honest, intelligent, and hard-working horse he is. It was great to see him in person. Bird was the main force drawing 21,000 people  to Mountaineer and he had that place buzzing the entire day.

And while Mine That Bird did not win the West Virginia Derby and is not a "great" horse, I still believe he has an important role to play in the sport as one of it's key ambassadors. And the great thing is that to continue to be this ambassador, he really doesn't have to win every race. In fact, "Bird" didnt even go off as the favorite in the West Virginia Derby. And while many were certainly rooting for him with their heart, there certainly wasnt shock when he didnt cross the wire first.  Folks like myself don't necessarilly travel to see "Bird" run expecting "greatness" or even a win; what attracts us to him is his cinderalla story, his charisma, and that intelligent pose he strikes when he props his ears straight up and his eyes inquisitively survey a crowd cheering him on. As long as he continues to give honest efforts, Mine That Bird will remain one of the most popular horses currently racing. By describing him as "good but not great", in no way am I or others rejecting these many positives.

What do you mean by, "Enough with the excuses?"

Mine That Bird has been tossed around from jockey to jockey, at no fault of his connections, like an old piece of luggage. Mike Smith even admitted that he used him up on the backstretch and he didn't have enough of him left to win The WV Derby. Before that, Calvin got the big head and decided to do talk shows and party in New York and didn't bother to ride the whole week before The Belmont so he could get the lay of the land, even though he had never ridden that track before. Had he bothered to pick up some rides, Mine That Bird would have won, because Calcin would have been familiar with the track and its quirks. This horse needs his own jockey, who can get to know his racing style and that will solve his problem. He's a great horse. He's smart, is all heart and gives it his all. It's the jocks who have lost the races because they didn't pay close enough attention to the trainer's instructions.

Does anyone happen to know Rachel's Beyers for her races this year?  DRF says 116 in the Haskell, and I'm interested in her progression...

forget the travers. i want to see rachel take on older males in the woodward!

Its just too bad she didn't get to run in Louisville on the 1st Saturday in May. She may of well been the triple crown winner the sport has been looking for since Affirmed.

Rachel Alexandra is as addictive as a cigarrette. She burns up the track so fast that you desperately crave another inhale of her running around the track immediately.

Much as I'd like to believe our brilliant colt Sea The Stars would trounce any opposition the US could line up against him, I have to concede that he'd have been no match for Rachel Alexandra in the Haskell.  The lasting impression from this race is that she has so much more to give, she won in truly imperious fashion.  A horse for the ages indeed!

Draynay, lay off the Secretariat comparisons - Rachel may be visually more impressive, but I'm fairly sure Secretariat beat far better horses.  Plus he was truly outstanding over two seasons - Horse of the Year at 2 remember.  Maybe if Rachel hangs around next season and beats all-comers in G1s, we can start mentioning her in the same breath.  Maybe.

Rachel Alexandra was just incredible! Words can't describe how I feel about her. I still think MTB is very good though.

Dray, you do act like a snotty kid but you might be right on this one. MTB is still a good horse its just he has to have the perfect trip to win. Not the first horse to be like that. He is not a fluke/or whatever else you call him he has run quality races since the derby not many horses are that consistent.

Greg J I agree with you about Draynay. No mature person would make the kind of comments he/she does. Total lack of intellect, class and tact. You don't have to pull other horses down to make a case for Rachel. She is making a pretty convincing case all by herself. Every equine athlete is as genuine as they come (not like their human counterparts) and none of them deserves to be insulted or disrespected whether you are a fan or not. Neither MTB, Zenyatta, nor Secretariat have ever done anything other than be a thoroughbred. Why this kind of treatment? They have never made any controversial comments, never been caught in any compromising situations, never had a DUI, never refused signing an autograph, never been arrested, never fought dogs...

"I told you, I told you, I told you." No adult would speak like that or even type a thing like that. That's kindergarten talk.

I'm a big fan of the filly and it's great to see and hear other fans, but this guy/gal is going overboard.

BTW I think all the Rachel fans can thank the heavens that Jess Jackson stepped up and bought this filly. If not her campaign would look something like Acorn, Mother Goose, Coaching Club, Alabama, and maybe even a Grade 2 race here or there. On the other hand Hal Wiggins and Morrison would probably have gone to the BC Distaff. Jackson isn't going to the BC, but has more than compensated for Rachel's absence by giving her a far more ambitious and unforgettable campaign than she would have gotten from her previous connections.

Rachel is the best! A fighting champion unlike Zenyatta, who although great, is content to stay in California and take on her less than worthy female adversaries on the poly track. At this point Zenyatta is taking on foes similar to Joe Louis taking on "The bum of the month" club.

Sorry Zenyatta fans, Rachel sealed the deal yesterday.

Rachel A. was super!

MTB needs a jockey who rides him the way CW wants him to run and not second guess his "one run and one run only". I think CW could have peace about the results if the jock would ride him the way he tells them to. Smith said he screwed up and second guessed the trainer , the horse and the race...

The Haskel was UNREAL>> On her walk over She was litterally FOOMING from the mouth and Then She BLASTED>>The Belmont Winner>>and a Winner of 2 Grade 1's in Munnings>>> IF She DOESN"T Run in the Travers The WINNER is Mine That Bird

I'm still in Mine That Bird's corner.  I really like that little guy!  I don't care if he never wins a race again, although I don't think that will be the case.  Maybe he needs a little time off.

Draynay, you're a one-note yawn on the subject of MTB.

Wow the Haskell slop winner sure looked good. Hard to see anyone out there today who could beat her. Things can change overnight but for now the Haskell slop winner aka RA sits atop the world.

Greg J,

With all his crowing nay nay overlooks the fact that he chose Big Drama to crush the WV field and was dead (100%) wrong. That's a typical response from someone like that. Try to mask the fact that he was wrong by bashing MTB some more. The fact of the matter is that he was as wrong about the WV Derby as he was right about the Haskell. Point is that the Haskell was many times easies to handicap so he only was right about the obvious choice to millions. Not such great handicapping there. You are as right about him as as were the millions of people who saw RA the winner of the Haskell in the slop.

I loved watching Kensei win the Jim Dandy Saturday.  He seems to be getting more mature as he ages and hopefully we'll get to see this rising star as a 4yo.  But I agree, Jason, we probably won't see him run against Rachel.  

As for Mine That Bird, I've thought it since he won the Kentucky Derby that he was a lucky winner, not talented.  He won it because the better 3yos either weren't in it (Old Fashioned, Quality Road and I Want Revenge), didn't like the track (Friesan Fire and Pioneerof The Nile) or had a bad trip (Summer Bird).  He also won it because of a superior ride put in by Calvin Borel, taking him through holes that most jockeys wouldn't have.  MTB didn't win on talent.  He is a very inconsistent horse.  Also, for all the MTB fans out there who claim MTB would've defeated RA if it were a couple furlongs longer, if you recall at the end of the Preakness when MTB pulled up next to RA, she took off again.  She has the heart, she would've won that race no matter the distance.  

MTB's connections need to get over themselves and quit embarassing that poor horse.  He won't run well in the Travers.  He can't win a G3 race, he sure won't win the Travers against better horses.

As Trevor would say about Paula Higgins and Greg J, "showing far too much class for this field".

Now, Mr Jackson, forget about the debacle of Curlin at SA and ship west.  Simon Bray said you are a true horseman.  Step up to the starting gate.

Art and poetry in motion.  The person who said it best was right, cherish and enjoy watching one of the greatest, gamest fillies to run now, in twenty years we will be telling those starry eyed kids what she was like.

Rachel Alexandra should have silenced her critics today.  She won on on off track, against high quality colts, has now beaten both the Kentucky Derby AND Belmont winners and did so in smashing fashion, dancing away from the field like a thunderbolt.

Enjoy the ride, I know I will!

Robin in MI

Comparing Rachel Alexandra to Secretariat and Ruffian is premature, but she may well be the best racehorse in 30 years - since Spectacular Bid.

Why wasn't the Haskell televised on a station with a wider audience?This moment deserved more than "Tune into Twitter". Its potential had been known for weeks. Rachel Alexandra can't save the sport if you can't see her.    

It will ne interesting to see Rachel make her place in history over the next 17 months...at least, unlike so many 3YO these days, she will get the opportunity to define her place in racing history. I would also like to see her race against Sea the Stars but that won't happen this year BUT since Sea the Stars is NOT owned by the Collmore/Ashford team, hopefully he will race again in 2010 and the breeders cup next year will not be in CA so if both remain in form, a meeting next year is a possibility.

I noticed that in The Bloodhorse's review of the Haskell, towards the end of the article the author stated that this was Summer Bird's last race for Tim Ice. Does anyone know anything about this or was it just stated incorrectly or erroneously?

WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE FILLY! GO RACHEL GO!!  SUPER FILLY!!! WAY TO GO MEDAGLIA D'ORO AND LOTTA KIM!!!

I'm with you, Freetex... my heart was choking me from the post parade onwards.  I even had tears in my eyes when she broke away in the stretch and she barely broke a sweat.  We truly have seen one of the most remarkable RACEHORSES of our time.  Thankfully she and her foes came home safely -- something I'm always nervous about, especially on an off-track.

After the Preakness, there was another blog asking if Rachel should attempt the Belmont or rest up and even if she was worthy of being grouped with the "greatest fillies." I was one who said that she should not have entered the Belmont (as if she had to shush nay-sayers who felt she had to prove more)  but that she should aim for a G1 race like the Mother Goose and then try the Haskell or Travers in the summer.  And that if she dominated the females and later beat colts again, then she is certainly due every accolade and superlative being heaped on her.  Now I certainly can't take credit for sending subliminal messages to RA's connections, but that's exactly what they did and she delivered.    I am happy to include her in the same breath as Ruffian, Lady's Secret, Cicada and so many other great fillies.  

Best of luck to Rachel for the balance of this year.  Even if she manages to lose a race, I don't believe it will tarnish the luster of the crown of HOTY.  Who else deserves that title?

I was pacing like a cat, full of nervous energy waiting to see my favorite horse run.  Could this be the day that the colts would get the best of her?  I was nervous.  I was excited.  This is why I have been a fan of thoroughbred horse racing since I was too little to recall.  The opportunity to see one of God's most beautiful creatures at their most stunning excellence.  They're off!  My pulse quickens and my breathing becomes shallow.  Rachel maneuvers into a perfect stalking position.  I feel a first wave of relief as my confidence grows.  Summer Bird moves right up to her on the rail...can he outfinish her?  No.  I see Calvin sitting as chilly as an emperor penguin.  As they spin out of the turn, Calvin twirls his whip with the confidence of a man who is the only one in the world who truly knows.  I mimick the move in front of a large screen TV in a Chicagoland OTB.  Poof!  She is gone.  The stretch run is a coronation.  Goosebumps all over my arms and legs.  I am clapping with a goofy open, mouthed smile without even realizing what I am doing.  Not since Spectacular Bid have I found this level of awe and sheer joy in watching the world's greatest athlete.  Rachel Alexandra, you are why I am a fan of thoroughbred horse racing.  Thank you.

Rachel is a pleasure to watch. I think if she rates like she has in the last two starts, the Goose and the Haskell, no one will beat her, not a colt or a filly. She is awesome. As far as MTB, he is a 2009 version of Giacamo. That is the best I can describe him. He did put Wooley and new Mexico on the map, but him winning the derby was a fluke. Another star I see falling is Kip Deville. Soft turf or not, he is a BC winner and he has not run a lick this year. On the other hand, Goldicova looks like a lock for the BC Turf Mile again. Let's see how QR runs today and chat about that tomorrow.

Jason, great blog post.  I agree with you on all of your points.

Yesterday was the last race I ever make a play against Rachel.  I believe she is truly special, one of the all-time great fillies, and is having a 3 year-old campaign that ranks just below the all-time greatest Secretariat and Citation.  I just cannot say enough regarding how impressed I am with her and how grateful I am that I got to watch such a truly great horse live at the Kentucky Oaks.

Draynay, it seems you were right about Mine That Bird.  Congratulations, you're awesome.  Now quit acting like a spoiled teenage girl and act with a little class.

RA ran a great race yesterday, but can someone in this blog please tell me, I watched all these races on TVG and I saw two different accidents where they said each horse had to be euthanized. Why can't they do something for these animals instead of always putting them down. When you hear of these incidents it makes you sad and to upsetting to watch.

I'm anxious to see how Quality Road comes back today.  He may be the one to give Rachel a real race  for the money which would be great for racing in general.  While I love seeing Rachel run and show her brilliant talent, I think it would be much the better for racing for her to have some serious competition instead of just blowing away the competition every race.  Are the races she runs going to be interesting to watch if many of the top contenders choose another race as soon as they hear Rachel is coming?

As far as MTB is concerned or any other horse who's won,placed, or shown in any Grade I race, they deserve our respect not scorn.  For example Draynay, how many Grade I races have you won in your conquests of life?  Are you CEO of a corporation, a brilliant scientist, or a brain surgeon?  If not, I don't think you can ridicule anyones accomplishments!!

Well, a Triple Crown Champion is the highest honor that can be bestowed upon a 3 year old. Winning three G1s in 5 weeks is a tough feat. That is why there are only 12. But that wasn't Secretariat's only accomplishment as a 3 year old. He took on elders and beat them. He took on champion turf horses on their own surface and beat them. Throw in a world record that still stands and track records on two different surfaces. Short career, but he accomplished more in one year than what any other could accomplish in a lifetime.

I'd like to see someone comment on Mike Smith's admission after the race that he wasn't pleased with the way he rode. That is seemingly rare in racing, I'm told.

It's time for a name change so that Rachel's sobriquet "Alexandra the Great" becomes her official name. Three wide, 1:09.4 in the slop, and she wins by 6 lengths with Calvin giving her a few taps to keep her from looking around at the crowd and then celebrating the last few strides to the wire. She overcome the outside draw in the Preakness , a fast early quarter, being forced to race wide, and a sloppy track to beat the colts in the Preakness. What will she do against the boys if she ever gets the perfect trip ? It's on to the Travers. If Jess had directed her paths, we would likely have had the first filly Triple Crown winner ever and nothing would have been more memorable than that. She can win on the lead or rate and on synthetic or dirt and under any track conditions. Send her to Dubai to the Classic next spring. Maybe Jackson should even try her on the grass next year and send her to the Arc though I'd rather see her race on grass in the States and win the Arlington Million. In the upcoming months love to see her against the older males in the Jockey Gold Cup and the Clark Handicap and, if only Zenyatta would come east and join her in those classic Grade Ones, what a treat racing fans would be in for. If Jackson had kept Curlin on the track for his 5 year old year and the all time money winner was still in the mix, we'd truly be back in the glory days of the great handicap horses who stayed on the track, raced often and never ducked one another. As for Mine That Bird, Jason is right about his one dimensionality. If he is too keen and gets rank as he was with Calvin in the Belmont, it compromises his finishing kick. If he's taken out of his game as he was by Mike Smith who feared Big Drama getting away from the field in the West Virginia Derby, his closing punch just isn't there. He must be dropped over to the rail, wrapped up and relaxed, and then allowed to make his one big run as Chip Wooley keeps insisting. He was a little too fresh for the West Virginia Derby, and, hopefully, will relax better in the Travers. Still he'll only figure in the exotics if Alexandra the Great is in the field. A gutsy, game little horse who always tries - a good horse always figuring in the exotics, but not a great one because of his one dimensionality.

Mine that Bird is another Funny Cide. "A FLASH IN THE PAN". RA is by far the best 3 yr. old in the world and the greatest filly ever. Man I can only imagine what a RA and Curlin baby is going to look like. Man what a beast that horse is going to be.  Look forward to seeing he/she in Triple Crown of 2014.

Thank you Racheal!!!!  Wow, what a exciting race to watch.  Right now Racheal is just what the Dr. ordered for the racing industry, a Super Star.

Once again Racheal, thank you for the memories.  I absoultely love watching this filly run, gives me goose bumps.

I have been waiting for superstar like this since I started watching racing in 1985.  Others have come close, but Rachel just outshines them all.  Thank you "Racing Gods", Jess Jackson, and everyone else for giving us a chance to witness history!!!!  THIS is why I love this sport so much!

Poetry in motion. She makes it look so easy. What a shame that ESPN, ABC, or any other did not broadcast the Haskell. Alot of America missed out on seeing something very special. I hope she goes to the Travers. She's got absolutely nothing to gain by going against Fillies her own age.

The Woodward is at her mercy, considering she will get 8 pounds from the entire field and Commentator will need 90 days off after the Whitney..  As for Mine That Bird, I could see him winning the Travers and, basically, pulling off a "Sea Hero" type of sophomore campaign.  That said, I like Summer Bird for The Travers.

Give the Bird a break ! No excuse but he not only got used up in the back stretch he gave the other 2 what 11 lbs?

May go down as the best filly of all time. Didn't take a genius to see she was something special and now she is proving her greatnes. However, that race was really tailor made for her running style.As far as MTB is concerned that race did not set up for him at all and between the 11 lbs. he was giving and him being a little closer than usual,he flattened out a little bit at the end. With his running style he needs everything to go his way. He is very good, honest horse and exciting to watch.

I was at the Haskell and all I can say is WOW.  Jason, you summed it up - poetry in motion.

Ok, well unlike Dray up there i won't go and say i told you so, i hate doing that, but what i will say is that is one spectacular filly. She is great and what the announcer said is true she is one for the ages. Greg J, i don't like Dray's methods of when he wins of how he flaunts it, but honestly, when i saw her win, after everyone telling me how wrong i was to compare her to the greats, telling me i was going to be wrong about her winning the Haskell. Bashing me for getting excited over her race, and yes i know i bash back, but honestly we were right. Dray was right all year long about RA. You, unless your a saint, can't tell me that when you win something or find out you are right about something when everyone has been so dead set against you, that when you see you were right you go in your head, who told them this would happen. I'm very competitive so that is what i thought when she won. I just don't think it is right to flaunt it, obviouly he feels differen. O, one last thing on RA, i will say this cause i see it popping up a lot. I was the one who first brought up the Woodward for RA. I forget on what blog, but i believe it was on one of jason's and i was i believe the first to mention the Woodward as an alternative to the Travers. Ok on that point i am done pointing out that i might be right on this.

    On Kensai, he looks to be a really good horse that Jim Dandy was a real solid win. I would wait though until after the Amsterdam today to see if he is the second best 3yr old in the crop. QR is set to return and i personally am rooting for the colt to make a comeback. If he wins and shows he still is as good or better than he was in the spring, he could come back and still be able to give RA a run for her money, maybe. On MTB, unlike Dray again i don't think he'd need to enter a caimer to win, yes i know, or i hope that was sarcasm. But i do think he is one dimesional, i've never made that or that i believe he his just a good horse, not great a secret. SB i think proved that he was better, just because he isn't one dimensional. I do give him credit where it is due, his Derby was great, but as he proved in these last three races, it is mainly because he got a dream trip. Now he is only three, so he can get better, but i'm seeing him become more of a Funny Cide, who was not great, but a good reliable horse. Ok i'm done my rambling for now, as i see i've written a ton even for me. My last thing is to Jason, which is nicely written blog.

I appreciate the fact that MTB is a gelding and therefore will be around for a little while barring injury.  He seemed somewhat rank in the early going of the race.  Not that this excuses him.

I think the burden is now on the Zenyatta camp to meet Rachel Alexandra anywhere.  If they really want the Horse of the Year title they thought they deserved last year, Zenyatta needs to beat Rachel.  Even if Zenyatta wins the Clement (against females) and the BC Ladies Classic, Rachel's got the nomination sewn up.  Heck, Zenyatta's stablemate Life is Sweet ran against the boys last month and managed a solid third.  If Mr. Moss thinks that a perfect record is the key to HOTY, he is sorely wrong.  

Speedball:

Mine That Bird deserves our full respect for his Kentucky Derby win, and his very respectable finishes in subsequent races. This is especially true since he is a gelding and will presumably be racing in years to come.

I would love to jump on RA's bandwagon, she is an awesome horse and the Haskell will go down in history, but find it difficult for 2 reasons: 1)the many drug violations of Steve Asmussen that make me question why Jess Jackson is so adamant about not going to California (Curlin looked pretty ordinary after he was taken off steroids)and 2)Jess Jackson. So I think about her performances when Hal Wiggins had her and that makes it easier to appreciate her for what she is.

RacingFan2006,

Let's not try and take anything away from RA by saying she faced a bunch of nobody's in the race. That would be a draynay type of response if he liked another horse better than RA. The fact of the matter is she totally and thoroughly crushed the Belmont winner and another awful good one in Munnings. Take a look at the times run by those two. On another day without RA in the lineup they both probably ran winning races. Summer Bird went a 1:10 flat 6f, 1:35.2 mile, and finished the race in 1:48.4. In fact Summer Bird ran a far better race than last years winner (you may recognize the name Big Brown)did when he went 6f in 1:11 (5 lengths slower), the mile in 1:35.6 (2 lengths slower), and finished in virtually the identical time Summer Bird did. Those are more than solid fractions for a 1 1/8 race. Munnings was not far behind in that respect. He went a 1:09.4 6f, 1:35.6 mile, and finished the race in 1:48.6 (He would have finished only 1 length behind Big Brown). Give RA her due. She beat some pretty good ones and did it with ease. What a breathtaking performance.

Emily,

    RA's top beyers before that were two 108's in the Oaks and Preakness and a 111 in the Mother Goose if that helps at all. 116 is her highest yet.

Barbara W:

Mike Smith is to be commended for his straightforward assessment of his ride in the Haskell. He beat the pundits to the punch, and preserved some dignity for his mount. True character - too bad we don't see it more often.

I tried to sit there and watch Rachel's race, but spent most of it on my feet.  She is the most amazing filly I think I've ever seen.  I was even more amazed at the media, however, still bashing Jess Jackson for his refusal to bring her to CA to run against Zenyatta.  Wait a minute now boys, what does Rachel still need to prove?  Why does Jess Jackson need to shlep her cross country to run on plastic to defend herself against a mare that has never left California and never run against the boys?  Not to mention that she's never run on dirt--unlike Rachel who has already won on synthetic.  I don't see anyone in the media hounding the Mosses to take Zenyatta anywhere else or to run her on anything but synthetics.  When are they going to leave Jackson alone?  Rachel doesn't need to defend herself against anyone at this point and Jess Jackson certainly doesn't need to answer to anyone for his decisions regarding his filly.  He certainly doesn't owe anyone an explaination on where or how he runs his horse.  I would argue with the TVG analyst who called Zenyatta the "queen of horse racing."  I guess he missed the Haskell, Mother Goose and the Preakness.

Just saw B-H slideshow of Rachel's Haskell. She looked so tired after the race.

Barba:

Think the comment about Summer Bird and "his last race for Tim Ice" in the B-H article about the Haskell was referring back to Summer Bird's PREVIOUS race for Tim Ice, the Belmont Stakes. In this instance, the word "last" meant previous, not final.  

Going back 16 years Rachel is not just the best filly I've ever seen but the best 3 year old I've ever seen. She is honestly the best moving racing horse I've ever layed eyes on, she waist no energy she looks like a big cat! She is Amazing. To the Bird Basher he's a nice horse and gutsy, he's one dimensional but a whole lot better than what you claim.

As a true horseracing fan, I would love nothing more than to see RA meet Zenyatta in the breeders cup.  I think she is good enough that the surface doesn't matter.  I live in CA and can get to Santa Anita but can't get to East Coast to see the great ones so am making these two years count. Went last year, going again this year! With that said:

I think Rachael is a great horse.  She is certainly showing us her greatness.  Should we put her up with Secretariat?  Time will tell us.  It is such enjoyment to watch her.  I started crying when she took off in the Haskel.  What a performance.  And, she is always near or on the lead!!!!  She just missed the record for this race in the slop!!!!  Awesome, is the only word that can describe that performance.

I don't think Zenyatta could catch her.  RA runs towards the front and then has those extra gears!  Absolutely awesome.  I'll look forward to her babies running in the future.

RE: Mine that Bird, he has gotten racing fans back into the game and has made new fans also.  He is one gutsy horse and I look forward to every race he will be in.

Great year for horse racing.  I have enjoyed it more this year than past years.  Wow!  What fun!

MTB may not be a great race horse, but to me he is a very special one.

He is a little guy with a big heart.It's refreshing to see a horse that is not owned by big money win the KY Derby.

RA is beautiful to watch. She is so versatile. I would love to see her take on Zenyatta.

Mine That Bird has become the Strike The Gold of his generation, and even the Cryptoclearance of a generation just prior....a difficult horse to ride, because he's shown now what works for him....lay him up, inside, with a hotly-contested pace going a good distance.

As I see it, his trainer should run in the Travers only if there are at least 9 horses (or more) in the field, with a certifiable speed horse to give Rachel Alexandra and early challenge...if those conditions are not met, just skip the race and forget about it.  He can only beat her at a mile and quarter (or more), with a full field and a good pace.  

This doesnt make him a bad horse...he's the Derby Winner, and he won that race fair and square - but he does appear one-dimensional in a way that hurts his chances of being competitive in many races....Rachel Alexandra, on the other hand, has that quality of speed over a distance that makes her formidable up to a mile and a quarter.

Mine That Bird is not a falling star.  He runs his guts out every time.  But he is a difficult horse to ride the right way.  Just ask Mike Smith.

Interesting comment in the B-H Haskell article from Jess Jackson about RA meeting Zenyatta, and the BC, etc. He says that any meeting between RA and Zen will have to be on a "neutral" surface. Notice that he didn't say "natural".

What's JJ REALLY worried about in refusing to run RA in the Breeders' Cup? Synthetic surfaces in general, or Zenyatta's having an advantage over RA on a synthetic surface? He says it's the former, but now it sounds like the latter.

A few thoughts...

I'm running out of superlatives for Rachel, She clearly belongs with the all-time greats. IMO, not running in the BC leaves the door open for Zen, if she can stay unbeaten and win the Classic. I'm thinking that the only way they will meet if is both lose a race  somewhere along the line.

Is it coincidence that one year after steroids are outlawed that greatness returns?

As for MTB, one run closers are always going to lose more than they win. Pace and traffic will always cost them something, but throw out MTB at your own risk.

I'm sorry, but there were a LOT of people on this blog site disparaging Rachel before and after the Preakness, by saying she had to prove herself a great horse. I am SO glad that you all FINALLY realize that she is the real deal!!! Does she run against older company, like Secretariat? I think that is the next challenge, and I wonder if Jess Jackson/Assmusen are considering a race like the Jockey Club gold Cup, if he doesn't want to run on "plastic" (which, incidentally, she has already handled, and won)

Rachel is one for the ages.  Possibly the best 3-yr old filly in history, and I don't say that lightly, Ruffian being the standard.

That said, Brian was correct about MTB.  Funny Cide, but with not quite as much versatility.

I wonder how much better MTB might be with a trainer used to training at this level.  Mike Smith, IMHO, took too much of the blame on himself.  

Sure, he moved early, but the fractions were soft, and it he wasn't in range there would be no chance.  How was he to know the horses would stagger down the stretch in nearly 15 seconds for the final furlong.

Third against a horse whose best distance is 7 furlongs and Assmussen's 3rd or 4th string horse in a crawl.  A great horse would overcome this.  5+ seconds off the track record compared to RA's 0.4 seconds.  

Zenyatta will run her 2nd race of 2009 next weekend.  Maybe one more to the Breeder's cup.  Maximum of 4 races in 2009.  One way to maintain an un-beaten record is to keep the horse in the barn.  Sadly it seems that's the path Mr. Moss has chosen.  Sad for the horse and for the racing fan.

I completely agree with what you said about both Rachel and Mine That Bird.  I was a little upset after the Preakness hearing former jockeys and other TV commentators talking about how if MTB had gotten a better trip, he would have won.  What about what Rachael did?  She was the first horse to win the Preakness from the thirteenth post and on top of that ran wider around the track more than any of the colts did.  I like MTB and think he is a good racehorse, but I would not call him great.  His three loses since the Derby show why his odds were high on Derby day.  I believe (to this point) he is just a good racehorse who had absolutely everything go his way in what just happened to be the biggest race of his life.  As far as needing a vacation, he had almost two months off after the Belmont. The excuses MTB's connections are making make are not helping, especially now since he has now lost three in a row.  Rachael on the other hand is in a class of her own. She not only continues to win with ease, but continues to beat more of the three year old colts.  The only horse I think could give her a run for her money would be Zenyatta, but even that seems less likely the more I see Rachael run.  I love this filly and feel lucky to be seeing her run.  I would also like to thank Mr. Jackson again for buying her and giving her the chance to write her name in the history books.

Soldier, comparing Rachel Alexandra to Ruffian is not premature.  Ruffian's match race was on July 5, 1975.  It was her 11th start.

Rachel is at nearly the same point in her career as Ruffian when hers was cut short.

As for those who claim winning doesn't matter, that's how champions are judged.  We're not saying MTB isn't a nice gelding, or that we'd kick him out of our barn.  Just that he's not anywhere close in ability.

I think he's adorable, and a tough cookie.  Just lacking a bit of ability to be put in the "great" category.

Rachel Alexandra is indeed a superfilly. It is too bad that Jess Jackson doesn't believe in her the way the fans do. He won't let her run in any Breeder's Cup races because he doesn't like "plastic." Nonsense. When you have a horse like this, you don't duck anything or anyone. What, was he so scalded by Curlin's Breeder's Cup loss on synthetics that he would deny this filly and the fans a chance to truly see history in the making? Shame on him. You talk about Mine That Bird'ss camp making excuses. Well, Mr. Jackson is making the mother of all excuses with this synthetic surface nonsense. Hasn't Rachel already won on a synthetic surface? And Mine That Bird is a truly gutsy, terrific little horse. He tries every time. I don't know many owners and trainers who don't come up with reasons when their horses lose. Mine That Bird gave us all a thrilling performance in the Derby and I'm not going to dump him so quickly. Lots of good horses can go through a dry spell. Lets not be so quick to dismiss a horse who got lots of folks excited about racing.

She hasn't won at 1 1/4 miles yet...

I would go to the Travers for the 1,000,000 purse at 1 1/4 and then take on older horses at the Jockey Club Gold Cup at Belmont also at 1 1/4 moles...

LDP,

   First off, I will give you an example of yesterday, I had about 10 people over to watch the Haskell, While, Yes, I thought "Summer Bird" had a shot at winning yesterday, But, Right before the race, I told everyone in my living room,  We are witnessing History unfold before our eyes with "Rachel", Get ready to see a true Superstar.  The Handicapper in me picked Summer Bird, When I saw "Rachel" come out, I knew the Field was all ready beaten!

     I am a very humble person, I am a little older and wiser then when I was a teenager.  When I am right on something, If it is horse racing or any other area in my life, I never come off as having a "I told You so" attitude, That is just me, Maybe when I was young and naive, I was a little more cocky and immature.  That is the difference between myself and Draynay, Anyone that starts off a comment with, "I told you, I told you, I told you" comes off as a immature, juvenile person,  While it doesn't surprise me coming from Draynay, It just shows his immature personality.  Also, When he said that comment, He was talking about Mine That Bird, But does he ever mention that he said Big Drama would win easily?  No, He only points out when he thinks he is right, I could name 100 examples of all the times he was wrong compared to the times he gets it somewhat right(In his delusional mind), If he had picked, "Soul Warrior", Then I would said good job.  Also, If you ever notice, Draynay only picks favorites, He has never stepped up to the plate and picked an outside shot, Anyone can pick the favorites, It is the true handicappers of the world that can see outside of the box and pick a un-conventional pick.  One more thing, I find it embarrasing that Draynay feels the need to belittle and put down other horses just to make an argument for his horse or his reasoning, You will never see  True Fans, Historians, Horsemen treat this great sport with such disrespect(IMO)...

    Finally, I am convinced that Mr. Jess Jackson purchased "Rachel" after reading that Draynay loved her earlier in the year!  Please...

BY THE WAY,  Anybody who thinks RA is better than Ruffian, I have one thing to say to you, "Get your head checked",  because something is obviously off balance. Ruffian ran 1 1/2 miles in 2:27,  did Rachel do that.  Oh,  that's right,  she needed a long rest after that Preakness effort and sending her 1 1/2 miles would have, no doubt, finished her off for the year.

Whatever 15 Jul 2009 7:17 PM

I can pull a lot of examples of this kind of nonsense from just a few weeks ago.  Ruffian beat 3 year old fillies and that is it.  Rachel has crushed 3 year old fillies and 3 year old males including the Belmont winner and the Derby mud winner.  Compare Rachels 3 year old season to Secretariat or Ruffian place them side by side.  Rachel has done more than Ruffian at 3 and Rachel has been perfect at 3 when Secretariat was far from perfect losing 3 races to average competition.  Rachel also did something Secretariat never did she won a G1 race on dirt after Belmont.  The point is Secretariat did not show up every race and got beat 3 times.  Rachel shows up EVERY time and dominates EVERY time to me that is the test of a TRUE CHAMPION.

Emily -

Rachel's lifetime beyers (from oldest to newest) are:

2008:

76

82

84

99

2009:

100

103

101

108

108

111

116

She is such an amazing racehorse, and ever since I first saw her in the Golden Rod Stakes I've been a fan. Can't wait to see her run again!!

What did this Draynay character win?

He picked the same horse everyone on the planet picked. Even if they bet another horse, that's what we try to do, beat the favorite. I doubt he has any stake in the filly, or ANY horse for that matter.

True horsemen and TRUE horse fans, don't slam other horses the way he does. It JUST isn't done PERIOD (publicly at any rate).

Anyone who's been around racing for any length of time knows that.

Now, calling out or criticizing a rider, trainer or owner? That's part of the game, because they can defend themselves. Plus, they are the masters of their own fate. THEY mess up the ride, the training or the purchase/mating selection.

Sounds like someone needs to get a life.

Doesn't junior high start soon?

During yesterday's Haskell, I had listened to the commentators about RA's vulnerability.  I had remembered comments on here about RA having her hands full with Munnings and Summer Bird.  I was a little worried about her losing until I saw her make her move on the turn for home and she just so easily pulled away from them.  I actually cried watching her blow that field away.  I have read so many comments on the blog how she has never beaten anybody and her Mother Goose didn't mean anything because there was no competition.  So many naysayers on this blog, so many who wouldn't give her credit for her Preakness win, so many against her.  I have read all the comments so far and have seen nothing negative.  How could there be, really?  She has set sail on her path to greatness.

Greg J,

You are all class.  It's a pleasure to be posting on the same blog, you too Paula.

Draynay,

I know that a very reasonable man lurks within you somewhere or your wife would have murdered you by now.  You showed class when you signed off for a month and you should show some now for being right about Rachel.  It would do wonders for you.

Was going to add a word on MTB last night but was too sleepy to do anything but praise Rachel.  I think the horse MTB resembles most is Funny Cide, except he lost the Preakness, which he would have won were it not for the aforementioned Alexandra the Great.  Even if MTB hardly ever wins he can still be, as Gun Bow says, an ambassador for the sport, a blue collar horse with "unfashionable" connections who won the world's greatest race and no one can ever take that away from him.

I think when Calvin rode him in the Derby it was with gusto, like there was nothing to lose.  Now it seems like he and Mike Smith are over-thinking things, because now he is the Derby winner so he's supposed to win.  But it looks like it's a real challenge to get him to the wire first, so I'm not blaming the jocks.

Also, maybe MTB will never be quite the same after his tough loss in the Preakness to you know who.

Rachel is amazing, no doubt. I can't wait to see how the rest of her career turns out. I still cannot fathom how this race wasn't on TV! What a wasted opportunity!

I still love Mine That Bird. I don't get why some people are so down on him--his trainer has done nothing but say over and over again that his horse needs to run his race to win. He's never said he was some kind of unbeatable superstar. Just a gutsy, hard-trying closer with an astonishing 3 furlong run that needs to be timed right. I suppose you can call it "one dimensional"--fair enough. I still love to watch him run, because you know if he gets his race he is dangerous as all get out. Rachel, while breathtaking in her dominance, is almost a little boring--you KNOW she's gonna win!

While watching the WV Derby, I knew the second MTB started moving up on the backstretch that he was going to lose. It just looked too much like the Belmont. He was real fresh at the start, moved way too early, then lugged into another horse in the middle of the stretch before getting loose and trying to come at the leaders again--by then too late. Still, if he was my horse I wouldn't complain about his consistent ability to end up in the money in these big races. Mine That Bird shows up, runs his tail off, and doesn't quit. I think he belongs with the company that he runs with and adds excitement to any race he enters, precisely because you never know if he's going to get the trip he needs to win, but even if he doesn't, it's not for lack of effort, and more often than not he still finds the money.

I also thought it was very admirable of Mike Smith to admit that his ride wasn't what he wanted. I have no doubt next time it'll be better.

I ADORE Zenyatta, but agree that it's hard to see how she'll win HOTY as things currently stand, if she never meets and beats Rachel. RA would have to totally fall apart from here on out and Zenyatta would need to beat the boys once or twice, and/or win the BC Classic--Even then, it would be close.

MTB did get a very poor ride by MS. He should have let him relax and sneak up the rail instead of taking him to the outside. Definitely plenty of chances to get good down on the rail and beat SW to the punch and close up around BD on the outside. Half a length win easy, but that's not what happened...

Not jumping off MTB even if he places third the rest of the year. Nice horse with real people connections.

Dray you seem to forget that you got outclassed in the Belmont. Besides it doesn't take brains to pick RA so don't go giving yourself a bunch of credit.  

Soldier Course, the whole MYB team handled his loss with class. I had just finished telling my son how refreshing it was to hear no blaming it on something else, but manning up and taking responsibility when the Fox Sports commentators said the same thing - how rare it is to hear no excuses. I do look forward to seeing him run long after Rachel has been retired.

Has any horse this year been closer to Rachel at the finish than Mine that Bird?

Emily Rachel's Beyers are as follows:

Haskell - 119

Mother Goose - 111

Preakness - 108

Kentucky Oaks - 108

She is getting better!

Karen in Indiana 03 Aug 09 9:43

That took guts. I agree with you on both counts, but the more I see of Rachel Alexandra the harder it is to hold her connections against her. Maybe if Rachel reaches the Pantheon, they will be obscured. Thank you.  

ITS the trainer fault BIG DRAMA,MINE THAT BIRD and MUNNINGS got beat.YOU DONT ENTER A 9fur race COMING OUT OF 7 FUR race.  WHO KNOWS WHAT WRONG WITH MINE THAT BIRD

Karen in Indy...We are in the same boat. I LOVE RA, the horse herself. But I have so little respect for her "people" that it's hard to fully enjoy her. She is breathtaking, and she seems to do it without effort. I look forward to seeing where she goes next.

Rachel is a freak!  The good kind of freak, I mean!  I haven't seen a filly like that since Ruffian.  Speaking of Ruffian, Rachel has that same "look of eagles" that Ruffian did!  She's here for a purpose.  She is the second coming.

As for Mine That Bird, I feel a little sorry for him.  The little gelding that could, did in the Kentucky Derby, but he just hasn't been good enough since then.  We've seen other Derby winners go down that same road, never to win another stakes race, or race, for that matter, again.  Go For Gin comes to mind.  He gave us all a thrill as he threaded his way down the Churchill stretch, but he has yet to make that explosive move without an excuse following him.

I wish, how I wish, that Zenyatta and Rachel would meet in the Breeders Cup, but I respect Jess Jackson and the decision he has made.  Perhaps next year, at Churchill, will these two great champions meet.  

I wish them all well.  Good health and good racing luck may follow you!

Gunbow - I haven't even read the rest of the posts, just stopped immediately to type this.  My post was not aimed at you.  It is just interesting to me to watch how "disappointed" people get when a horse delivers on the big stage and then doesn't continue to do so.  Immediately they become a fluke, or one shot wonder, etc.  I think it reflects the emotional component people bring to the sport (which is good, the spice of life!), but at the same time (as a horseperson), it really bothers me to see the animals decried.  And I do believe, as posted, that MTB is too narrowly one dimensional to be a "great" horse, but on the other hand, he is very good at what he does well (hopefully one can read through the redundancy! :) ).  I suspect one day MTB will be remembered as Cosmonaut is on the other blog, albiet at a slightly higher level.  Let's hope his career lasts so long.  Your friend in obsession :)  .

Draynay, Did it ever occur to you that you damage Rachel's appeal more than you help it by your continued digs at other horses?  Why can't you just praise her and leave out the ugly comments?

I have seen Rachel race, in person, 3 times now.  The Preakness, the Mother Goose and yesterday at the Haskell.  She is simply a phenomenon!!!  I could've reached out and touched her when she walked by in the paddock.  Her beauty and presence are indescribable.  There are just no words - everyone who sees her is struck with awe.  Watching her move gave me goosebumps too. She is a rare treasure we have been granted the privilege to enjoy.

Still, with all that, Mine That Bird has his own slot in history and is actually the kind of horse that racing fans should really love to have around.  He may not always win but he comes in the money most of the time and he always has the potential to win.  We've all seen that potential.  That means he's a good horse to put some money on and maybe actually make something.  And like many of you have said he has great appeal, calm, dignified, sturdy, gutsy and capable.  He's the kind of horse most owners and trainers love to have in their barn.

Rachel is one for the ages, but Mine That Bird will be in the history books too.

"ain't she something?"

dray that last comment made you a 5ooo claimer that crossed the finish line last. Not to dis RA in anyway, but Secretariat just happened to win the triple crown! RA did not run in the Belmont. Her connections have very carefully picked her races for her when she says she is ready.

There is no doubt in my mind that RA is a GREAT filly. Especially to beat a bunch of G1 winners in the slop wide just a tick or two off the track record. Pretty darn impressive. If she had ran the entire TC I believe she would have been the next TC winner and the only filly to have done it! But ya never know? Maybe she wouldn't have made it through the Belmont like everyone else on the line...who knows?

The Haskell blew the doors off any barriers I had in my mind as to what Rachel Alexandra can accomplish.  All the races she's run in will now be measured against the greatness of her victories.  She raises the bar so high evertime and always comes out on top.  It gave me shivers hearing the way the crowd roared when she appeared in the paddock, emerged onto the track, raced past the wire and paraded into the winners circle.  People know when they've witnessed greatness, and that was one of the greatest.  I can't believe I'm alive to see a horse like this run, it's like a dream come true.  

Rachel Alexandra is restoring the sport to what it used to feel like decades ago, and that is very special.

The greatest filly of all time, go Rache GO!!

Saying "Enough with the excuses"

Well excuse me having to carry 11 lbs extra in  a race is not an excuse it is a fact. If I had been Wooley I would have pulled Mine that Bird out of that race. It was wrong to give a 3 yr old colt that much disadvantage even if he did win the Derby.

Caroline S.

Rachel got a 116 (not 119) in the Haskell, still very impressive!

Soldier course - I always assumed JJ's relunctance to race RA at Santa Anita had to do with that track's known bias to closers (part of what made Pamplemousse so amazing).  Hence the comment "neutral".  Perhaps at some point people might begin to think that it won't matter whether or not the track is biased, RA will beat them anyway.  But, it is certainly his choice/chance to make/take.

I think that anyone who witnessed the Haskell yesterday will agree that Rachel is a great horse.  Most of us have known this all along though I for one still didn’t know where to place her in history except to say that every race climbs her up the ladder.

Its people like Draynay and his little band of know-it-alls that have caused much of the bickering on this BLOG.  You would think that by the way they go on they spotted Rachel’s talent many, many, many months ago.  She would have won in spite of what knowledge the banwagon jumpers on would  have us believe…..like there was something they knew that we didn’t.

In analyzing yesterdays race (116 Beyer), I still haven’t seen a 120 plus Beyer and I find this puzzling, but then given the other participants, Summer Bird’s change in running styles in the race, Munning’s distance limitations and the lack of quality class from the others, I can understand.

Rachel is dominant, no doubt about it.  Is she as great as some would have us believe?

• Take the top 11 rated fillies and mares since 1900 and put them all in a race with Rachel and where will she finish?

• Take the top rated 3 year-olds colts/geldings since 1900 and put them in a race with Rachel and where will she finish?

• Take the top rated older horses since 1900 and put them in a race with Rachel and where will she finish?

And don’t bring up Zen.  Rachel hasn’t faced her yet.  Like I’ve said before, Zen’s running style does not translate to fast times unless the pace dictates it and it does not translate to lengthily wins.

Hats off to Rachel.  She would accomplished what she has accomplished even if the so called experts were on the moon and had never heard of horse racing.

And for you experts, the beauty of horse racing is that there is always the next race.

Uhm,

All you so-called "racing fans" who knock these colts, and Mine That Bird in particular, just don't want to face facts.  Weight matters.  Mine That Bird had 11 more pounds to carry in The West Virginia Derby than the two rivals that beat him.  Eleven pounds over 9 furlongs.  It matters.

Rachel is a great runner.  But put equal weight on her and run her against these colts in The Travers.  Yeah, sound attractive?

I didn't think so.  

RA is indeed the best and outstanding 3 yr old in modern history. Better than Ruffian? NIMO. What everybody feels today toward RA, the greatness, outstanding brilliance, etc.etc., take all that emotion back almost 40 years, and it is a exact mirror of all that we were feeling, seeing, and expierencing with the great and mighty Ruffian. Will RA ever be greater than Ruffian?, we will never, ever, know, because Ruffian was felled right in her prime. Never will we know the true greatness she could and would have achieved, had she had the opportunity to continue racing. RA does have that chance to continue on, and she well may stomp every horse she comes across, but she will do that all on her own, but in a way shadowing the hoofs of Ruffian, perhaps showing us a "what if" of what could have been accomplished nearly 40  yrs ago. In a way, Rachel Alexandra is this generations Ruffian, just sit back and enjoy the ride!!

    A few interesting quotes from yesterday,

Mr. Jess Jackson:

“There's not been a filly as good since Ruffian, and she just might be as good"

"When she's ready, I don't know that there is a horse in the world that can beat her."

“We haven't reached the depth of her yet, She is just running to beat the competition, and I don't know if she will ever get to Secretariat's records.”

Calvin Borel:

"I don't know how good she is, When a horse comes up to her eye to eye, then I'll know how good she is."

"This filly is just unbelievable. I can't say how good she is, I gave her a few taps at the 16th-pole, that's it. I just wanted to keep her focused with a couple of taps. She started looking around at the crowd, so I just wanted to keep her busy."

Steve Asmussen:

"She's just a tremendous filly, and I'm glad she put on a good show, She's very special. She's been able to separate herself from everyone else."

     I also want to send out a HUGE Thank You to Mr. Hal Wiggins for pointing "Rachel" to the path of Greatness, Thank You...

TerriV the Derby mud winner has a chance to win only because he is in the gate.  I gave 10 to 1 odds on the fluke and 3 of my friends were dumb enough to put 100 bucks down.  It was the easiest 300 bucks I ever made.  The Derby Mud winner got beat by a sprinter and a allowance winner...lol... give me a break.  He was a fluke winner of the Derby just like Giacamo.  Do you have the same love for Giacamo ? The Derby mud winner is an also ran and that is it.  He is a tough little horse and always hits the board ?  So what! Yeah he won the Derby but never won another race.  Gee... what a way to be remembered. Now they are sending him to the Travers ?  Really that's what is in the horses best interest ?  How about finding an easier spot to help get his confidence back.  His trainer continues to prove he has no idea what he is doing but I guess his race record this year proves that better than anything I can say.

I think Mike Smith forgot which horse he was riding! He rode MTB just like he rides Zenyatta! Mike, you have to trail the field and then make your move at the final turn! Duh!

Anyway, IF RA's original owners would have paid more attention to exactly what kind of horse they had in the first place, THEN we all would be looking at the first triple crown winner in 31 years AND it would have been from a filly! Not only did she beat MTB in the Preakness, now she has beat the Belmont winner SB! WOW!!!!

Put Chantal Sutherland back on MTB! She knows how to ride him!

Paula Higgins

MonicaV

GregJ

SoldierCourse

GunBow,

I just want to say how much I enjoy reading the posts you all write here.  You are all so pro-horse and positive in your comments.  You always have thoughtful, provocative but kind comments and amazing stories and statistics (which I am not very good at). Thanks.

Well said, TerriV.

The emotional factor in horse racing is not a zero-sum game. It's more like parenting than handicapping. My love for one horse does not come at the expense of another. I think the hardcore handicappers have a difficult time understanding that concept.

You know it really bothers me to read some of the comments I'm seeing on MTB. Fair weather horse fans are not in short supply. Everyone jumped on the MTB bandwagon when he was doing great but let the little guy not win and those same people jump off even faster. To say he's a star losing his light, calling him a fluke, a good but not great horse, saying everyone is making excuses for him. Remember, he won the KY Derby fair and square and not by a small length either, he ran a hard charging 2nd to Rachel in the Preakness even after encountering traffic trouble and going wide, he was 3rd in the Belmont and carried the lead for a bit before giving it up to Summer Bird due to Calvin's lack of experience on that track (my opinion).He ran all 3 races against fresh horses. These are facts. I believe he is only one of two horses who ran all three crown races and he is the ONLY horse to finish in the top 3 every time. Does that sound like a fluke to any reasonable person?? This is a horse that deserves all the accolades and respect his true fans have given him. I gave up watching horse racing for many years (for all the BS that was happening in the sport) until he came along. He sparked something in me that made me a fan again. Maybe it's his humble story along with his huge heart but that horse gives it everything he's got everytime. No he may never be the Rachel Alexandra or the Secretariat but he gives many people something back that's been missing for a long time in horse racing. On another note, I feel compelled to mention that MTB has never had a consistent jockey. He has been passed back and forth and I truly believe (as someone mentioned in an earlier post) that if he could get a regular consistent jockey, it's going to make all the difference in the world in this horse. They will learn this horse and by doing that, he'll get a consistently better ride. I think MTB is an AWESOME horse and his true potential hasn't been tapped yet. Please don't knock any horse out there racing. Every one of them is a beautiful, hard working creature and I love them all but I'll always be a MTB fan for the rest of his racing days. His true fans will understand what I'm saying and I'm confident his best has yet to come. GO BIRDIE GO!!

    A little off subject, But, I wanted to remind everyone that "Quality Road" returns to the track today at Saratoga in Race #8(4:55) in the $150,000 Amsterdam Stakes(6 1/2 Furlongs).  Hope he is ready, I like "Custom for Carlos" to win, also, Watch out for "Captain Cherokee" who is trained by Mr. Asmussen, Who is on fire these days...

   I Just hope, "Quality Road" and all return safely after all the Sad break downs over the Weekend.....

Rachel Alexandra is bringing back the joy to racing.  How sweet it is to be enraptured in "Rachel Euphoria" ...a truly awe-inspiribg performance in the Haskell.  She trampled a very good field of 3YO colts and I believe that all her vanquished opponents (colts and fillies) will vindicate and emphasise her quality when they meet older horses later in the season (Munnings already gave us a preview of that before being man-handled by the superfilly).

Regarding her place in the historical rankings, there is still some ground to cover.  She needs two victories over older horses in Grade 1 races to at least equal Holy Bull's and Secretariat's accomplishments as a 3YO.  We are well aware of Jess Jackson's intention to skip the Breeder's Cup which is certainly his prerogative however he may be flying in the face of history, while paying a price and running the risk of compromising Rachel's rightful place by doing so.  Mineshaft is a forgotten HOTY and Holy Bull has not gotten his just respect because of skipping the institution that the Breeder's Cup has become.  He is also running the risk of seeing Rachel's fame and glory eclipsed by Sea The Stars towards the end of the season when race fans begin to thirst again for a quality superstar.

Mine That Bird needs to be cut some slack.  There is no way that he was going to beat Big Drama even with the ridiculous, losing ride that Eibar Coa gave him, at those weight allotments.  I endorse the posting of WELDON (Aug 3, 1:54 am).  He deserves a lot of respect for being the only challenger to give Rachel Alexandra a "late scare" in any race this year (the Preakness).  If she doesn't show up in the Travers he has a very live shot to win even if (perhaps especially if)Quality Road goes.

I wont compare Rachel to other horses right now.In the early 70s, racing was dragging its feet and along came Secretariat. A household name. Non racing fans were talking about him constantly! A great embassador for the sport!

Skip to the 21 century. Everytime you open the paper, you find out another horse has broken down. Tax evaders, steroids, racetracks dissapearing; negative publicity left , right and centre! Now Rachel Alexandra comes along, beating the boys and garnering positive publicity.

Three Cheers To Rachel!

Thank you to those of you who said nice things about my posting. It gladdened my heart to see the love for MTB on this site; lot's of class on this blog.  Yes, MTB is a tad one dimensional and has to win his way, but I could care less. Still just love him. Mike Smith is a classy jockey as well and so are MTB's connections. I will look forward to many more races from him. Karen, I think you are right, MTB was closest to Rachel all year. Not too shabby.

I think we should give Draynay his due. He was Rachel's biggest supporter. He took on all comers and wouldn't back down. We all knew she was an amazing horse. But he was the only one who said she will probably be one of the greatest of all time. He was right. Dray when you believe in something, you fight with everything you've got. Monica V, I laughed my head off over your comment about Draynay's wife not killing him. She probably figures one of us will do it.

I just went to a baby shower and one of the gifts I brought was a big stuffed horse. My husband says I'm going to start eating oats and hay pretty soon.

I understand everyone's exuberance over Rachel right now.  It's just that I have a few reservations.  Munnings is a sprinter, so you can't expect him to get the distance.  And Summer Bird ran one of the slowest Belmont stakes (almost equaling his sire's slow Belmont time).  And Papa Clem hasn't really done anything since getting fourth in the Kentucky D (although possibly he should have gotten second if not for the interference in the stretch), as well as the fact that Papa Clem has always been kind of a second tier horse behind Pioneerof the Nile and I Want Revenge.  But yes, Rachel's final time was great.  My point is if Quality Road comes back strong today, I still think Rachel can be beaten by at least two American horses that I can think of.

Ok people, can we leave Jess Jackson alone? He didn't want to go to the BC last year, but did it anyway because of the pressure. He had a bad expirence with Curlin's finish. I can totally understand why he doesn't want the same thing to happen to Rachel. It's not because he's scared of Zenyatta.

I've been real excited for Quality Road's comeback.  Can't wait to see if he is the same horse.  Who is his jockey?  I don't get HRTV - guess there isn't anywhere to watch. Very frustrating!

mole 03 Aug 2009 8:56 AM

In response to your post, if a horse breaks a leg, especially a front leg, it is much more catastrophic than a human.  You can't expect a 1200 lb animal to stop doing what is natural to them and to stay off the leg.  Look at Barbaro.  They did everything possible to save him.  The leg healed but the other legs developed severe laminitis (the same condition that caused the great Secretariat to be euthanized).  It is usually much kinder to humanely euthanize the horse than to try to save them and cause them months of suffering.  It's not just race horses that are euthanized due to a broken leg.  It's jumpers, dressage horses, event horses, rodeo horses and the horses you see in pastures along any highway.  A broken leg is a catastrophic injury to any horse.  I applaud Roy & Gretchen Jackson for their efforts with Barbaro and they were very nearly successful, but at the same time, that horse went through months of pain before he couldn't take it anymore.  As a fan of Barbaro, I'm glad they tried, but as a horsewoman, a part of me wishes they hadn't.

Brian,

Oops! My mistake.

Still, looks like it's the highest Beyer posted yet this year :)

I am so relieved to read true horse fans who understand the glory of thoroughbreds.

I CANNOT ABIDE THOSE WHO PUT DOWN MINE THAT BIRD!  He is what he is, a gutsy, running machine who shows up for his race.  There is nothing inconsistent about his race.  Anyone can see he is a closer and needs his race.  So what!  He is healthy, sound, and not injured.  

For those few who don't get it, he is and always be the winner of the Kentucky Derby.  Where were all the other three year old superstars that day?  They either showed up in the race or were injured.

Rachel Alexandra could have changed the results of the Kentucky Derby.  I get that..

However, it is all history now,  Give the little horse his due.  He had no respect going into the derby and very little respect since, and frankly, its wrong.

These great champions are so powerful and fragile at the same time, that to disparage them in any way is demeaning to the sport.

Hopefully, Mine That Bird will be racing for a few more years and give racing fans a horse to cheer about, wherever he places in a race.  That is racing folks.

Folks lets not get overly exited about RA. Lets look at her accomplishments- She has been competing against a terrible crop of 3 year olds both fillies and colts. I dont recall of a crop being this bad! MTB is an avg horse, RA bested him by a diminishing length. OH boy! RA won twice in the mud(discount this).

I really believe everybody jumped on the bandwagon way to much.  RA will get her head handed to her when she faces quality opponents including older mares or older males.

Actually, let me amend that;  I can think of several American horses that could potentially beat Rachel:  Quality Road, Rail Trip, Zenyatta, Colonel John, Commentator, and Well Armed on a good day.

Soldier Course you wrote "What's JJ REALLY worried about in refusing to run RA in the Breeders' Cup? Synthetic surfaces in general, or Zenyatta's having an advantage over RA on a synthetic surface? He says it's the former, but now it sounds like the latter."

This is speculation, but I have a feeling Curlin came out of the BC Classic hurt.  They had been considering taking Curlin to the Clark Handicap, even shipped him to Churchill, yet he didn't run.  They would not have had to announce his injury (and risk reducing his stud value), just say that the horse has not recovered from the BC and retire him.  Jackson has made comments about soft tissue injuries on synthetic and that being his fear of Rachel running on synthetics.  I don't know for sure that Curlin was hurt, but he had, previously, turned around and run races in 4 weeks.  An uninjured Curlin could've made the Clark easily and gone out better than he did.  

News Flash:

Draynay has friends.....WOW....

 Rachel Alexandra is one for the ages.  I had that feeling when I saw her win in the Oaks and again when she went on to take the Preakness. Time will tell if she is a female Secretariat, but we can already see that she is a spectacular filly.  

  As to Mine that Bird, he is a good, honest little horse and he will finish in the money more often than not.  He reminds me of a bay gelding I used to show, not the flashiest horse in the ring, but smart and honest.  Horses like that are worth a great deal.  I truly cannot understand anyone ridiculing him.  Those who would are not horsemen.  

  I love Rachel, Mine that Bird and Zenyatta.  They are wonderful horses, each in his/her own way.  Let's just appreciate them.

Thank you Paula we all know now how great Rachel is but I have been saying it for months thanks for saying so.  I hope Quality Road comes back to form but to think he would have a chance to beat Rachel is just plain nuts.  She is at a level right now few horses have ever obtained.  And she continues to get better.  If Rachel shows up she can run a 146 flat on a dry track and no horse right now and few in history can match that.

Terri V, thank you for the compliment but my knowledge of horses does not stack up with yours or the rest on that list. I just won't let someone go negative on any horse without commenting. Horses are GOD's gift to mankind in my opinion. They do their best. Soldier Course you are absolutely right. Some of the hardcore handicapers look at horse racing differently.

Draynay, I am nominating you for U.S. Representative to the United Nations. Our enemies won't stand a chance.

Just because Mine that bird is a gelding -the owners should spent some money on X-Rays to check out his legs-Dont be cheap like General Quaters Owner who Unknowly ran in Prek with bone chips or chipped Knee

Lily,

Curlin won the HOTY last year BECAUSE he competed at the Breeder's Cup otherwise Zenyatta would've won that title.  Also Curlin appeared to have been training-off before the BCC and therefore ran a very creditable race with that patented move of his, on the far turn.  With a little more patience by the jockey Robby Albarado he might have won but he didn't lose because of the surface.  He trained pretty well over it and gave every indication that he was effective on it, even though it was not his preferred surface.  All the great racehorses are like that.  Curlin's run in the BCC last year would be a very poor excuse to not send Rachel Alexandra this year.  IMO the real reason may be a political one (and a black-eye for racing).

Hi Greg J.  The breakdowns this weekend were all on the Monmouth mudpuddle right?  This is a situation, unlike the one in California, where a synthetic track would actually be logical.  They wouldn't have had all those scratches in the races that came off the turf.  Those turfers could have gone to the synthetics, no problem.  And maybe those breakdowns in the slippery mud bog don't happen either.  

I love thoroughbreds. Watching great races sometimes bring tears to my eyes. I will sing praises to their accomplishments.

But i will never never put down or demean a losing horse who tries his

best everytime he ran.

Every horse deserves our respect.

Great horses achieves greatness by beating equally great horses.

Mine That Bird won the Kentucky

Derby impressively. Nobody can take that away from him. Too bad if he does not win again. But lets not RIDICULE his achievement by calling it a FLUKE.

LETS NOT BE PERSONAL!

It's probably safe to say that everybody posting here loves horse racing.  And loves horses.

While it's natural to have favorites, I think exuberance takes over sometimes, and can cause people to "trash" horses that don't measure up to superstars like Brilliant Rachel.

But language creates reality, so here's a caution to resist reducing horses who don't perform at the very top of the sport by speaking harshly of them.  

If we, who love these animals, can't simply shrug at disappointing performances like the last three of Mine That Bird and go on, how can we expect the poor horses laboring down there at the bottom claiming level to be treated with the respect and care all creatures deserve?

As Rachel attracts a broad spotlight to this sport, can't we make an effort to leverage her popularity into better attitudes and treatment of all her "colleagues?"

Jason

Your comment referring to Mine That Bird as a "Star Losing His Light" is so unfair & quite frankly wrong. He is the ONLY 3 year old to place within the first 3 in ALL three Triple Crown races. If he is losing his light, what is that saying about every other 3 year old running? There are many more horses running this year than Rachael Alexandra. Give them some respect & some credit. I like Rachael Alexandra but I love Mine That Bird. He & his trainer can & are doing more for racing than any other horse has in a long time. People can readily identify with the story of Mine That Bird & Chip Woolley. He is the horse who is drawing new fans to the sport. If the racing industry was smart, they would be promoting Mine That Bird & his remarkable story. In my world, which happens to be a hospital, many know that I am a huge racing fan. Many of these people (doctors, other nurses, etc.) watch the Derby every year & that's about it. In past years, not much was talked about once the Triple Crown races were over. This year, it is different. Everyone wants to know when Mine That Bird is racing again. They want to watch his races. These are people who also watched the Preakness, because Mine That Bird was running. But they don't connect with Rachael Alexandra as they do Mine That Bird. Many wanted me to let them know how they can see Mine That Bird race again. They already know that the big sports channels, NBC, ESPN, etc., do not carry many horse races. They thought one can't follow a horse's career unless one goes to a racetrack or OTB. I told them about TVG & HRTV. It turned out that many of them get either one or both of these channels on their home TV's & didn't even know it. So, I let them know when to watch Mine That Bird race. I told them Rachael Alexandra was racing this weekend, too. But, they were really  interested in watching Mine That Bird. Now, if in my one hospital, people are interested in following Mine That Bird, how many other places all over the country is this happening? People can relate to a relatively inexpensive horse & his down to earth trainer making it & doing well. They can't to a multi millionaire & his 10 million dollar horse.  Even within the socio-economical category of doctors & nurses, they can relate more to Mine That Bird & Chip Woolley than they can to a 10 million dollar Rachael Alexandra and Jess Jackson. Couldn't racing use some new fans such as those I work with? Isn't it possible that the cardio-thoracic surgeon who wants to go to Saratoga when I & my son go, could possibly one day be an owner herself? She called me on Sunday to tell me she watched Mine That Bird's Saturday race & wants to know when the next one is. She is thrilled to know he is coming to Saratoga, which is her reason for wanting to come with us to Saratoga. Now, is she a racing fan in the making, or what? Mine That Bird, not Rachael Alexandra, is who is drawing her to racing. The racing world needs to wake up & recognize a horse great for the sport. They should be picking up the lead of Sport's Illustrated & find ways of letting the public know when & where Mine That Bird is racing again.

Mine That Bird shows up in every race & you see that as a light going out?? He is so exciting to watch as he roars past his

competition. Sometimes he will get there & sometimes he won't. But, he is ALWAYS so, so thrilling to watch. While watching Rachel Alexandra race, I stay sitting in my chair. But, while watching Mine That Bird race, I am out of my chair, jumping up & down. His light is be bright, drawing new fans to the sport, long after Rachael Alexandra is in the breeding shed. He is the "people's horse". People make up a fan base.  Racing needs more fans. Need I say more??!!  ColetteMarie

Lily...Jackson mismanaged Curlin leading up to the BC, instead of giving him a prep over it (Curlin always ran better his second time over a track) he cried and whined about not wanting to go. Curlin ran a good race in the Classic (it didn't hurt him for HOY) and most owners would have been happy enough, but to Jackson it was some kind of tragedy. If he was refusing to bring CURLIN back to SA I might understand, but Rachel is NOT Curlin. She has won on synthetic, I think she could win on any surface. My problem with him is not about RA vs Zenya, it is about him being a big baby.

I don't think one race would answer the question of who is better anyway. No matter the outcome people would bring out excuses galore. Even if they ran several races it might not settle it...people still argue about Sunday Silence vs Easy Goer.

Big Drama carried 115 compared to Mine That Bird's 122 in West Virginia.  

There have been numerous good horses throughout history that needed the race to unfold their way to win.  Mine That Bird is one of those good horses.  He is not, however, a fluke.  A fluke wouldn't be right there in every big race.  A fluke would be finishing up the track.  And Dray, if you're going to keep going on about how great Rachael Alexandra is, you have to acknowledge that the "fluke" got closer to her in the Preakness than any other horse this year.  It's not a disgrace or a sign of a fluke to run a race that good against a horse of RA's quality.

Mine That Bird is a nice horse who deserves credit for being so...but Rachel Alexandra is clearly the people's horse.  This should be clear after hearing the roars echoing from the 37 thousand people lucky enough to be at Monmouth Park yesterday.  She can become the most popular horse in the past 36 years or so.  Enjoy the ride fellow fans. Travers or Woodward, Trying Turf, Dubai World Cup, 2010 BC Classic...the sky is the limit!

to Draynay

Secretariat won 7 straight stakes races. And to his credit he never ran against fields consisting of 2-5 mediocre fillies. Is Rachel Alexandra great? Absolutely, but aside from the Preakness and Haskell, she hasn't exactly been running against top notch horses. I just find it rather funny that you have been blasting this 3 year old crop as subpar and weak, yet are so eager to place RA with Secretariat/Ruffian for demolishing that same "subpar" crop. Not that I don't RA has the talent to run with and win against the best, but it's much easier to maintain a lengthy winning streak when you're not facing the best each race.

No ColetteMarie please don't say anymore.  What is the trainer doing positive for the Derby mud winner? Sticking him in races he can't win ? That is suppose to be rewarded with kindness.  Now he is going to take him to the Travers to get his head beat in again?  You think that is the right thing to do?  Run him against horses better than him so he can pick up 3rd.  Jason is dead on about the fluke 6 races one win ?  Maybe some of you need to look up the word fluke, you will notice there is picture of the Derby mud winner right next to the definition.

While Rachel Alexandra's ears were flopping back and forth on the far turn of Sunday's Haskell, wondering when she would be really turned loose, I found myself wondering the same thing.

Her race Sunday was an odds-on processional, beating a dead-closing Summer Bird, who ran out of his comfort zone and showed speed for the first time in his career. This Bird is still eligible for non-winners of two other than. She also took advantage of Munnings, who looked the part of a very good miler and ran that way. Oh yea, the Iowa Derby winner and the Arkansas Derby winner were in her wake and not much else.

It's not her fault who shows up to challenge her, but if Rachel Alexandra is to nail down HOY, I think she should do more than prove she's the best North American foal of 2006, male or female. Winning the Travers against most of the same horses she's already beaten would only validate Sunday's romp. That and that she could carry that high cruising speed another 220 yards.

If some are saying Zenyatta must do something different to cement her place in history, I say "ditto" for Rachel Alexandra. Her race Sunday was a tour de force, but I really want to see her try something other than continually punishing an average at best crop of colts. Older horses and/or the turf and maybe travel out of the country, just as another 3-year-old did 36 years ago, continually embarrassing his crop and his elders after winning the Triple Crown 36 years ago.

What I really want to know is what Hal Wiggins is thinking these days; How is Steve A. moving this horse up on a continuing basis?

helsbelles, I don't think ANYONE is beating Rachel Alexandra this year if she stays healthy. Next year, we'll talk. But as Karen in Indiana said so well, MTB got closest to her. I am looking forward to Quality Road this afternoon too.

Geesh Lazmannick, everyone needs friends. Whether we agree with Draynay or not about MTB, or anything else, he spices up this board (he has a very unique way of expressing himself), he has guts, and he has the courage of his convictions. We ALL give him heat when we don't like what he says and he still comes back fighting. If I was in a war, I would want him in the trenches with me.

You go girls, Pam Graham and Colette Marie!!

MTB is quite the Horse.

He has brought fans back to racing.

He is the Sea Biscuit of this decade.

He will go on and win. Someone mentioned that in a round about way that he is not being trained by a trainer that competes at this level.

Trust me, I am from the New Mexico tracks. Here in NM we don't have it all that easy. This trainer has been training for a long time. He finally got a break. Good for Chip and his connections.

Not many three year old in recent history has been as consistant as MTB. He is remarkable to say the least.

He will win again. He has had some crappy rides. They need to let this horse run his own race just like Wooleys keeps telling his Jocks to do. He ran a big race in the WV Derby. Look how much ground he made up.

I disagree with you all about MTB being one demensional. He has shown that he can come up on the rail or go wide and still make a good showing. He needs a consistent rider. I think we would see more wins for him if his rider learns the running style of this hard knocking little jewel of a horse.

I like him and I will root for him everytime.

BTW: His trainer may not be from the rich and famous Kentucky, NY or CA. circuit, but he has prooved by his actions and humbleness that he has just as much class if not more that a lot of the big boys.

Draynay,

Don't be so ignorant. Secretariat has done more in his short career than most others did in their lifetime. He is only one of 12 Triple Crown Champions - something Rachel Alexandra will never achieve. She has yet to beat her elders, run on a different surface, set a track record at a classic distance, set a world record at a classic distance and win at 10 furlongs and further. So until she has equalled/surpassed that, please stop with the comparisons. Thank you.

For now, she is just an undeniable force at 9 furlongs.

Hey all, A quick thought. Draynay loves to see all of you respond to his non-sense. It is pretty simple to ban him for life.  Just ignore him. He thrives on your responses. He is like a stray dog. He will go away if you don't feed him.

GREG J

Hello! I agree with your point on Draynay,a serious lack of class. He's probably past forty,but he acts like he's twelve!

DRAYNAY

You sound like a child with the "I told you so" bs. You said Big Drama would win,you were wrong on that. One of your classic trademarks is you pump up horses like BB and RA at the same time undermining what other great horses of our past and present have done. You couldn't be more wrong!

Paula: There's only one, small problem with your comments; we're not in a war here. No one is dying and the need for hand-to-hand combat is non-existant. This is the Sport of Kings we're discussing, not some grade school smackdown where "my dad can whup your dad." I respect those who respect my opinion; I respect those who show others respect; I respect all athletes for putting it on the line, not whether they win or lose.

ColetteMarie

    Curlin was also first second and third in all his triple crown races. Third in the Derby, First in the Preakness, and Second in the Belmont. So obviously he is not the first. You say people arent attracted to RA as much, well you are living in one world only then. Did you hear the roar of the crowd at Monmouth for her. They did it repeatedly. The two that stand out most in my mind are when she came out of the tunnel, and then as she turned for home. Jesus, i normally can't hear the crowd in the tapes, unless i'm watching the Derby. She turned for home and they roared, and your going to tell me that she is less loved or less followed than MTB. Your working in a hospital of course they're going to root for MTB, he's an underdog and so are they, they relate to him. Outside the hospital people look for a champion in racing, they look for something different and captivating, RA is that and she is rising to heights that many fillies wouldn't dream. Right now she is the hero and star of racing. MTB has his part too, no doubt about it, but it comes nowhere near how big RA has become.

Ranagulzion,

Very good arguments.

helsbelles  03 Aug 2009 2:09 PM

Quality Road, Rail Trip, Zenyatta, Colonel John, Commentator, and Well Armed on a good day.

These horses could beat Rachel? Are you joking? You have a very active imagination. Keep dreaming my friend.

Rachel would have to have a VERY BAD day for any of these horses to even have a sniff of a chance. Wasn't Colonel John part of the worst crop of 3 year olds in recent memory. When last did he win a meaningful race? The slow figures he ran at 3 would only have been competitive against RA at 2. Didn't Commentator lose BADLY at Charlestown? I don't think I even need to mention Well Armed who has won a single Grade 1 race in the US and has 7 wins in 24 starts. Rail Trip? Try again. Only Quality Road and Zenyatta would stand any chance and QR would be a stretch. Any real competition would have to come from Europe who have a number of amazing runners right now. They still couldn't beat RA on the dirt. I think you'll realize how good Rail Trip is when he faces the European contingent in the Classic. Only Zenyatta can turn them back.

The few people in racing who actually read what this Draynay character says? Laugh our a**es of at him. We do it when we need a good laugh, can always count on him. The rest of the people on here? Pretty good observations.

But as far as some others? Guess what? ‘Some’ of you ‘friends’ of his, your credibility is fading fast in the racing community.

Colette, you are correct. I also heard that some people who go to Del Mar didn't even know she was running.... The TVG announcers made me want to barf.(geez ,as sensational as she is she deserves to have her name pronounced correctly tv guys).

I've just been hearing all around town how nice it is that Steve won so many races (sarcasm). Folks on the fringe of racing, only involved because it brings money to their town are saying: now he can continue his fight against suspension, restock his medicine cabinet, pay his attorney (oops wait, his attorney has horses with him, hey maybe a conflict of interest or trying to protect HER horses?)or finance his 6 month 'vacation' since the new way is to disperse the horses to where he has no financial gain.

I love that filly, she's amazing. Her connections? Sportsman hah, I could compare him to certain people in our country right now but I don't want to make this political.

Last in my rant against these kind of people having the nice horses?

Has Steve Asmussen ever MADE a horse on his own? Curlin, Rachel AlexandrA  both purchased as finished horses. Even his best 2 year olds (Hot Dixie Chick)are bought at the in training sales and the one who had the potential to be sensational, Ocean Colors, a homebred has become a blip on the radar

Everyone who say MTB is the only horse to ever run in the top three of in each TC race GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEADS. MTB is not the first to do so, Curlin did it 2 years ago. Also i believe winning counts as coming in top three each time, are we discounting the 11 triple crown winners. Are we also discounting horses like Smarty Jones, Real Quiet, Afleet Alex, and all others who won two jewls but came in second or third in the others. Are you going to discount Alydar who ran second in each race. MTB is not the first horse to run top three in these races, not even close.

Steve from St.Louis, the horses she raced against were darn good horses. You know what, this filly could race anywhere and win. She is that good. What is it you all want??? Do you want her to race against Secretariat, Man O'War, Citation, and Phar Lap combined?  Rachel is dominating male horses and none of them just came in from the plowing the farm.

Chris, this is not a "subpar crop."  Why is it some of you want to see a field of the top 10 horses of all time show up in every race or you won't validate a victory????

DRAYNAY

Thought you stated you wouldn't refer to him as the "fluke" anymore. So much for your petty promises. You and I know that if your latest crush RA broke down tomorrow you could care less. You would simply move on. That's how you roll!

Greg J,

With all his crowing nay nay overlooks the fact that he chose Big Drama to crush the WV field and was dead (100%) wrong. That's a typical response from someone like that. Try to mask the fact that he was wrong by bashing MTB some more. The fact of the matter is that he was as wrong about the WV Derby as he was right about the Haskell. Point is that the Haskell was many times easies to handicap so he only was right about the obvious choice to millions. Not such great handicapping there. You are as right about him as as were the millions of people who saw RA the winner of the Haskell in the slop.

gw_bushwacker 03 Aug 2009 7:43 AM

Anyone that starts off a comment with, "I told you, I told you, I told you" comes off as a immature, juvenile person,  While it doesn't surprise me coming from Draynay, It just shows his immature personality.  Also, When he said that comment, He was talking about Mine That Bird, But does he ever mention that he said Big Drama would win easily?  No, He only points out when he thinks he is right.

Greg J. 03 Aug 2009 11:15 AM  

You both hit the nay nay on the head here. You are so right!!

Seems to me the dude would be much better off pointing out that he chose Musket Man to run big in the KY Derby than to make the claim he discovered RA before anyone else. At least with Musket Man he didn't hitch his boat load of b.s. to an odds on favorite each time she runs. I've always maintained it can be just as hard or harder to handicap the "underneath" finishers in a race then picking the actual winner. Musket Man was a nice pick nay nay to run well in the Derby. If it weren't for your "fluke" or PON's big beak he would have won the whole enchalada. In Ra's case she's been nearly a given all year. nay nay can pat himself on the back all he wants but he's only one in a crowded sea of millions who have backed her for some time now.

Exactly... while Rachel has certainly wrapped up best 3-year-old of either gender honors, she has not proven that she is Horse Of the Year yet.  I agree, she needs to be moved up to face elders and/or go on the turf.  Let's see if Mr. Jackson plays it safe now with belief that Rachel has HOtY nailed down.

Paula,

If you were in a war you'd be toast in no time with nay nay up your trench. He'd be so busy arguing that denzel washington is tougher than john wayne ever was that he'd forget where he was when they dropped the grenade in your lap. As far as courage for his convictions that's as laughable as it gets. Just ask the dozen or so horses he said would blow all the rest away at KY the first saturday of may while he was flip flopping his choice from one to another. And to top it off he was wrong everytime and still can't admit it was anything but a fluke. He's only here to antagonize and relieve some of his daily misery by doing so. I feel sorry for him that he's so transparent in his misery.

Thanks to all of you who also love MTB. He has sparked something within me that is good, and I will always love him. This morning's article, I will admit, was really discouraging until I saw all your kind posts. After all, it doesn't have to be either RA OR MTB. There is room in our hearts for all of them.

I'll say this: I would LOVE to be at the All-American Futurity on Labor Day when MTB leads the post parade.

I don't think that it matters that MINE THAT BIRD "couldn't win a grade 3" because he can surely win another grade 1 if the race sets up well. He's an in and out kind of performer, very capable of winning on his best day, and pretty good most of the time while getting part of the purse. He won the Kentucky Derby, and that's a grade 1, so what's to say he can't win another. One thing he needs to do, though, is skip the Breeders Cup Classic. He ran last at Santa Anita last year, so I'm going to draw the conclusion that he doesn't like the Pro-Ride. His Santa Anita race was the only bad race in his life.

RACHEL ALEXANDRA is really starting to impress me more and more. I was astounded by her Haskell blow-out. She's amazing. If Horse of the Year were given out today she would win.

barb,

I completely agree with everything in your post. I thought I was the only one who thinks Jackson is being totally illogical. It's hard for me to comprehend why no one else sees this.

Paula Higgins, I don't often write here but, after reading all the posts, I totally agree with you about Draynay.  He draws a lot of attention and is tough enough to not back down, even when everyone is against him.  In fact, he reminds me a lot of ...Mine That Bird! (Also, don't forget, Draynay loves his dogs. Even though my Alaskan malamutes would consider his itty-bitties just nice afternoon snacks, it does count in his favor.)

I'd like to thank everyone who's been standing up for MTB. He may not win every race, but he SHOWS UP everytime. I love the little guy! He's got a lotta heart.

I think Rachel is wonderful. But she isnt everything. There are a lot of wonderful horses out there. Lets not forget about them.

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but if I was Chip Wooley I would try to get Julian Lepareux to ride Mine that Bird.  I think he would fit MTB the best.  He has no problems waiting,waiting,waiting, then going.

Like Draynay, I noticed Rachel Alexandra months before the Kentucky Oaks. Weldon (who posted earlier on this blog) & I talked about her way back in the winter. As Weldon can tell you, I was very excited about her then. But, since then, my enthusiasm has wanned alot. Her story changed, for me, when Jess Jackson bought her. I don't specifically dislike Jess Jackson, but I don't like how he took her from the trainer who put her on the path of greatness. All the credit for her greatness should be going to Hal Wiggins. He trained her to race & now all her "new" connections have to do is pick the races to place her in, after all the real work has been done. They feed her, send her out to exercise every several days & pick her races. I can't help but notice that  the champions of the Jackson -Asmussen team (Curlin & Rachel Alexandra) are not champions created by them. They acquire them, as champions,when someone else's talent & hard work brought these horses from babyhood to champion status.

Someone mentioned that Mine That Bird should have a different trainer. That is absolutely the worst opinion I've heard. It would be so wrong to do such a thing, just like it would be wrong to take Summer Bird from his trainer. Racing is more than a few elite trainers. It is about the dreams of many, many hard working trainers all over the country who dream of one day having a horse, to train, in their barn who may one day bring them to the top. These trainers deserve to keep the horses they trained to the top & not snatched away to be given to an elite few. Take my word for it, Mine That Bird AND his trainer, Chip Woolley IS the story that has captured so many Americans & is creating new racing fans; Mine That Bird and Chip Woolley together!

The poster who called Funny Cide a 'flash in the pan'should have been at his retirement party at Saratoga, Aug. '07. They would have found themselves standing on line for 2 hours waiting for autographs, if they wanted one.They would have found themselves having to get to the apron of the track hours before  Funny Cide came out to the track, in order to see him, thru the crowd. This retirement party was on a weekday & the track was packed. If that is a flash in the pan, every horse racing would wish to be such a flash. From all accounts, Funny Cide draws huge crowds coming to visit him since he retired to Kentucky. Mine That Bird is like Funny Cide in that he creates racing fans to the sport. Mine That Bird, along with his trainer Chip Woolley, will be huge ambassadors to the sport of horse racing for a long, long time.

I will always love Funny Cide as he is the horse who turned me into an avid racing fan. I love Mine That Bird as he is a most exciting horse to watch, not to mention that he also has the coolest personality. His trainer's appreciation of his fans is unparalleled. All in all, a perfect package...for racing.

ColetteMarie

You write about MTB: "...But enough with the excuses..."

I'll make this brief: MTB needs a jockey that fits him! Even Mike Smith said the race and loss was due to "jockey error". A horse has to deal with who's in the irons - unless he unseats him and gets to the wire himself! Come on!!

Most of you readers are probably too young to even know the records John Henry broke. Google him! He did poorly in the beginning. He had upteen jocks, too.

Who is STILL the RICHEST GELDING... John Henry! GIVE MINE THAT BIRD A CHANCE!!

As for Rachel Alexandra - I sobbed at the beauty of her racing. I am thrilled to be able to see her making history.

Quality Road is back...very impressive today.  He is now the Travers favorite.  Provided of course that Rachel is not in the race.

Ugh Oh there is a beast brewing and his name is Quality Road you can talk all day about RA but she cannot mess with the FREAK QR who would of thumped everyone in the derby. RA will have her hands full if QR runs in the travers!

Hey Steve From St Louis... What you obviously don't understand is that it didn't matter who she  faced yesterday. She wins, period!

Two ticks off a 24 year old track record says it all. Although the mudd probably helped her more than her rivals and probably hurt Munnings (probably future champ) the most. RA reminds me of Holy Bull. One stride is many other horses two strides.  

LDP...Don't forget Genuine Risk, the filly, won the Derby, second in the Preakness and Belmont. P.S. I think you mis-read the comments re. MTB. I think they said/meant that he was only 1 of 2 who ran all three legs THIS year, and not that he was the only one to finish in the top 3 in all but that it is impressive to do so. :)

jason-you will eat your words about MTB.

  Gunbow, I have not been a big MTB fan, but enjoyed your comments about him, as a true fan of the horse.

  EL, I agree with your post and "RA doesn't need to defend herself against anyone at this point and JJackson doesn't need to answer to anyone on his decision re RA", well said.

  ABZ, a great description of the race, and I share yours, and others' positive thoughts on this magnificent horse.

  I was fortunate to be at Monmouth yesterday to witness this.

There was flooding and downpours in my area in the morning, the creek flooded by my apt. My friend lives nearby, not sure he still wanted to go but I was determined, hoping weather better in NJ. He came, as I agreed to drive, pouring rain most of the 2-which became-3 hour ride, traffic jam, to top it off got off wrong exit. We arrived to cloudy skies but no rain:) Despite the weather, the only parking to be found were a few spots in the farthest lot,  

there was a sea of cars. A lot of fun things happened, don't want to be too long winded...

When the race went off almost everyone in the grandstand stood, such excitement felt.. As she came down the homestretch, people screaming, jumping, arms in air. The margin got wider, and what a feeling. As Rachael Alexandra crossed the finish line, 6 lengths ahead of the field of colts, many of us were overcome with emotion. Electrifying. One of the great ones, already. That special feeling only the truly great ones can give.  

To me, HOTY is not a given thing for Zenyatta~  WHile she is last years champ, doesnt mean it is hers to loose.  Her slate is wiped clean and has to earn it again.  Who says that a horse can automatically, keep it after winning it the first year.  Her connections are acting like that is the case by not taking her anywhere.  Yeh, come get me if you can aint going to settle well with the HOTY powers that be.  While they are playing it safe, rachel is travelling all around, winning the top races, against incredible odds, and makin it look effortless.  To me, if Zenyatta wants to keep her title, she better go find Rachel and try to stop her march up the HOTY ladder!  This great filly, Rachel, is going to leave Zenyatta standing on the side of the road if the owners dont start thinking.  .... Than again.  They may just be really scared of this 3 year old Fenom!  

Makes sense if they dont try to derail Rachel.  The voters are now looking in the direction of Zenyatta's owners.  If they do nothing, and this other horse is flying everywhere, running on different tracks, beating males not just once but so far twice.  It may be too late.  The safe campain may just be Zenyatta's undoing.  

Question:  Jackson/Asmussen have Kensei as a big threat to win, doesn't that play a major factor in deciding whether Rachel runs in the Travers?

Every heard of humility Draynay? "I told you, I told you...." Shut up! You are not the only one who recognized Rachel's brilliance as any idiot could have seen it. Also, I've seen claimers string together 8 wins in a row...so does that in and of itself make a horse better than Secretariat? You give racing fans a bad name with your poorly thought-out posts. I wish they would block you from commenting. You are the same guy who said Big Brown was the next coming. Whatever!!

On Mine That Bird's loss, Woolley and MTB's owners need to realize that they must take some of blame too. They cannot keep putting the balme for lost races on the jockey. I liked his win in the Derby but I find that this group of owners and trainer is too abrasive. I do not understand why they can't take a loss just like any other trainer (hey Todd Pletcher is a graceful looser - with that Derby losing streak)maybe MTB's connections could learn a lesson from Plethcer and have a little mpre class, but they whine and complain that MTB needed more ground, it was the rider's fault, and so on. They need to suck it up, "get back on the horse" and stop complaining! They have a Kentucky Derby winner and should be happy! If he doesn't show up at the races, take it how it is and move on to the next event. MTB is a good horse, not a great one. So true.

Steve from St. Louis, it was a joke and a testament to Draynay's feistiness. So, we are not "at war here?" The way some people talk about Draynay, you could have fooled me (see Saratoga Sam's comments). But you're right, we shouldn't be at war on a racing blog. We should be respectful of each other's opinions.

Uh, Saratoga Sam I don't have any credibility in the horse racing community to lose. I'm a R.N. who loves watching the horses run. So if you were referring to me, your point is moot.

Quality Road just ran and won a good race in the Amsterdam. He is a really, really good horse, and it is great to see him back, but I don't think Rachel is going get beat by him. She has an extra gear that is otherworldly. Nevertheless, I would love to see the two of them in the same race together.

Hey ColetteMarie, Didn't mean to make you upset about my "flash in the pan" comment about Funny Cide. I was just trying to make a direct correlation to the kind of carrer that Mind that Bird will go on to have. Funny Cide was a good horse and a great horse for the sport, however, he didn't go on to accomplish much more after his Triple Crown bid. I see that in Mind that Bird. I think he is good but not great.  Many posters here think he is going to go out and win the Breeders Cup or the Travers. I cannot see that happening.  I am with you.  I love the story behind him and his trainer and will continue to follow his career.

LDP,  The comment was MTB is the only horse THIS YEAR to run in and finish in the top 3 of the TC races.

Jason, If MTB's connections would have scratched due to the 11 pounds do you think that there might have been a little uproar? And I am not talking just about this blog.

Why dont the owners of Rachel, put her in a Turf race at the Breeders Cup?  She would be able to run on that big day.  Oh what if she is entered in the DUBAI race that Curlin won!  What if she won it?  Then came back here and won more?  WOuld people believe she is the greatest then?  Oh how it would be wonderful to see.  Can you imagine!?!?!?

Merlinmerry, thanks for the support. Sure is getting hot here!! I have an itty-bitty afternoon snack/schnauzer as well so I agree, it speaks well for him.

GW Bushwacker, I laughed out loud about your Denzel/John Wayne comparison AND the grenade in my lap. A pretty hilarious scenario. But I think you underestimate him.

Brian, I would feed a stray dog and then take him to a no-kill shelter (or keep him). Didn't love your analogy. Geesh.

ok, As for the comparisons to Secretariat goes, I think it is time for some to go and watch his Belmont again.  No way is Rachel on that level.  I love Rachel Alexander and she is truely something extremely special, but she is not as powerful as Secretariat.  There is no comparison to him out there and probubly never will there ever be.  Rachel has the chance to be the best ever filly to ever race, alongside Secretariat, but not better.  Unless she runs a mile and a half in under 2:24 against males at Belmont park.  Then I would have to eat my words.

Quality Road looked good for having a 4 month layoff, however, he did have to work pretty hard to get the win. I think that RA should run in the Woodward against older horses. Then she would have HOY!

I disagree and think that QR can hang with rachael he set a track record at GP and was toying with the field today. The thing I like with this horse is that he is a great runner down the stretch and what an exciting battle that would be with RA. The only thing that sucks is RA is in better racing form then my boy QR but QR runs with such power and explosivness... Get on the QR bandwagon while you can!

I would love to see Frankie Detorrie on Mine that bird.

Many of you read my guest blog of last week (ready to step in whenever you may need me Jason) and you know that I rate Rachel and Zenyatta quite highly from a historical perspective.  Rachel is quickly becoming an all-time favorite of mine, but I wonder if all this gushing from almost everyone is going a step too far.  Next week when Zenyatta trumps overmatched mares at Del Mar will this become the all hail Zenyatta forum?  Oh...who am I kidding?  I admit it, I am caught up in Rahelmania and am enjoying every minute.  The ball is now in your court Zenyatta.

MTB has been described by every word except the obvious one.... durable.  He showed up for all three and hit the board in all three.  No one's done that in while.  And with good health he may be around next year drawing crowds to the track unlike most of the 2009 3 year olds who will be retired and forgotten about.  While I think RA is a truly wonderful horse, I don't believe for a minute that she'll race next year... she will develop some "minor injury" in spring training just in time to visit Curlin for the 2010 breeding season.  That may sound cynical, and I hope she continues to race, but I just don't see it.  If she keeps beating the boys this year, there is nothing left for her to prove... there may not be now!

Lara...The track at Meydan is synthetic. It would indeed be something if JJ chose to take her there and not to the BC.

Sadly, SportsSouth's (Fox) coverage of the Haskell via TVG was not advertised in print or the tv guide channel.  I guessed coverage would start at 5:30 p.m.  How many potential-and current- fans-did not see RA because again the sport and a marquee star were not advertised.  Also, despite RA's May star status, she-and Tiger-were passed by in the media in favor of Michael Phelps.  I wish the great Rachel could be shown again to the American public.

Lara,

Rachel's name is Rachel AlexanDRA not Alexander!

Also, someone needs to inform the hosts on TVG of how her name is pronounced! They kept calling her AlexanDER!

Palua, sorry I could have picked a better choice of words to describe my thoughts on Draynay. I would do the same for a stray as I am a dog lover as well.

Jason, I know they knew the weight assignments before entries were drawn. My point was if they said they were scratching due to the weight issue most people would have had a fit.

It was good to see my Quality Road back running again.  His 107 split was fast and he did it with ease. Welcome back Quality Road.

It aint easy being good, I thought Quality Road looked very good today. He certainly looked alot happier and healthier than he did back in May. I think the Travers is a HUGE reach considering the layoff. He can't possibly be in top form at this stage of his comeback. I hope they give him at least one more race before they try a mile and a quarter.

Jason, If they would have done that, I for one would have applauded. I never understood why they chose the WV Derby in the first place. It is a quirky track that generally favors up front speed. I also wanted to say that I didn't think your comments about MTB were disparaging in any way. Deep closers lose races all the time. They have to have almost everything go their way. Unless their name happens to be Zenyata!!

"Just because Mine that bird is a gelding -the owners should spent some money on X-Rays to check out his legs-Dont be cheap like General Quaters Owner who Unknowly ran in Prek with bone chips or chipped Knee

steve s 03 Aug 2009 2:23 PM

Well, Steve, considering that Leonard is a veterinarian I'm pretty sure he's been over MTB with a fine tooth comb and I doubt he pays to X-ray his own.  (Do you people THINK before you write?)

Why can't you all accept the fact that the little guy has one move? His jock finally realized it, there's nothing wrong with it as long as he's ridden correctly, lots of horses have one style. It  puts money in the coffers to buy and maintain other horses and truthfully, that’s what it’s about. Being able to pay the way, buy more horses, enjoy your runners.

As far as hurting feelings? Nah, but it isn’t helping the game. They’re two totally different horses and have different fan bases, let it go at that instead of using one to hammer home the point about the other.

Also to you guys talking about Chip? He tried to smooth it over for Mikey and say MTB was probably too fresh and was dragging Mike along. Also, the public identifies with him and his connections far more than they do Jess.

Plus, do you have ANY clue how the game works internally, who plans out the path for these upper level horses?  Almost ALWAYS the owners have final say after listening to the recommendations of the trainer and/or a racing manager if you have one. (We’re the ones who pay the fees, we dang sure better be consulted).

Rachel, unfortunately will NOT be remembered by the non racing public. Sad as it is for me to say this,  she’ll be remembered by the racing community, turf writers and the hardcore fans. That’s just the way it is in this day and age.  The next horse that will be remembered or held in  esteem by the public?

The Next Triple Crown winner.

Thanks Brian. That was nice of you to say that.

QR -- I never doubted you for a second!  

Gobin 03 Aug 2009 3:26 PM:  The good news is you agree with 2 of 6 of my selections.  So, you were not all that impressed with Well Armed's jaw-dropping victory in the Dubai World Cup?  And, likewise, Rail Trip's burst in the stretch of the Hollywood GC did nothing for you.  But surely you must agree that Commentator, on his best day, is a world beater?  Didn't he earn a ridiculous Beyer figure (120+) for the 08 Whitney?  And one of these days Colonel John is gonna bust a big one... I just know it.  But none of these things impressed you, ok.

Anyway, Rachel is the undisputed champion 3-yr-old at 9 furlongs.  That extra 1/2 furlong in the Preakness almost got her.  Or maybe part of it is that she, as Calvin said, disliked the Pimlico track that day... and clearly she has proven twice(?)now that she loves the slop.  When she and Curlin finally do reproduce, their offspring should likewise revel in the mud.

LDP, I think the statement was that MTB is the only horse THIS year to run in the top 3 of all the Triple Crown races.   That by itself puts him in pretty good company.

My Juliet, I was at Monmouth too.  We drove over 5 hours through downpours of rain just to see Rachel and it was worth it.  The roar for Rachel was astounding but I wasn't surprised.  After experiencing the Monmouth welcome for Big Brown last year I knew those wonderful racing fans would be out there for her, no matter what.  She is extraordinary and that race should've been televised.  Why wasn't ESPN there like? They were there for the opening of DelMar's season, why not follow the superfilly?  I just don't get it.

Also, just watched Quality Road - he looked pretty awesome.  That big broad chest is impressive.  At the end of the video there was a statement about the clock being incorrect but I never saw a time.  Anyone have that info?

MTB HAS MY HEART AND ALWAYS WILL. IN THIS LAST RACE WITH AN EXTRA 11LBS. HE HAD ALREADY RUN HIS RACE. LETS SEE, WE RAN IN THE MIDDLE HOW LONG? THEN TOOK HIM TO THE RAIL, OH NO NOT THERE LETS RUN THE MIDDLE AGAIN. SO WE SET THERE FOR AWHILE AND NOW LETS TAKE HIM TO THE OUTSIDE. AND STILL WE ARE UP FRONT. I THINK BIRD AT THAT POINT WAS WONDERING WHO IS THIS ON MY BACK? THIS IS A HORSE WITH HEART, HE FIGHTS ALL THE WAY, AND STILL PASSES ALL THE OTHERS. NAME ANOTHER HORSE THAT CAN DO THAT. HE LOVES THIS GAME AND GIVEN THE RIGHT JOCKEY HE WILL GO PLACES. WIN OR LOSE HE IS ONE OF THE GREATEST. AS FOR CALVINS RACE IT WAS JUST ABOUT THE SAME, AND YET HE STILL PASSED ALL THE OTHER HORSES. YOU NEED TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK, AND MTB NEEDS A JOCKEY THAT UNDERSTANDS HIM.

Every year tv coverage of racing attempts to inflate some nice horses into 'great' ones, and look silly when they run like nice, but not great horses.

Then, we have Rachel Alexandra...and she runs two incredible races that are not even on national tv.  This is a mistake.  This is OPPORTUNITY being ignored to show the best there is about this game.

    "As for Rachel Alexandra, not only did she run a full second faster than Old Fashioned did at the same distance just a day earlier, don't forget she ran about a full second faster than Capt. Candyman Can did back in November at CD at the same distance and on the same day no less.  She's the real deal and she's my Oaks pick regardless if Stardom Bound runs in the Oaks or not!"  Curlin 18 Feb 2009 12:23 PM

    Personally, I hate doing this, because I know I've been wrong plenty of times in the past and will be wrong plenty of times in the future, but Dray, you weren't the only one or even the 1st one speaking RA's praises.  Back when you hoped off the Vineyard Haven bandwagon and hoped onto the Stardom Bound bandwagon as your Derby pick, I was saying how good RA was.  Don't act like you told everyone something, they didn't already know.  Just because you talk a lot about it, that doesn't mean you're the only one who believes it.  

    On to the other things, Karen In Indiana, as for the whole 'Curlin was average after steroids' thing, I think you're confusing him with Big Brown.  This is debatable, but Curlin's best lifetime performance probably came in the Dubai World Cup.  In that race, he raced on nothing!  No steriods, no bute, no lasix, absolutely nothing, so I don't think it's valid to say he was average after being taken off steroids.    

Quality Road is a superstar and its going to be hard for him to make the travers since he just ran 6 1/2 furlongs today. I dont think there is enough time to run him again. QR is similar to RA in they both have high cruising speed. QR didnt work that hard today and still impressive after being on the shelf for so long! I think QR will win the BC classic as long as he stays healthy!

TO:TIM G

You obviously are very bright.but many of your posts comes off as if you know more than anyone. Maybe you hang around Draynay. I've noticed others' call you out regarding your attitude. Here's a newsflash, not one person is without error!

Wow! el numero uno, Quality Road is back, track record and all ...emmh ...two track records in a row (Florida Derby and Amsterdam)...not bad.  I say let's forget about Rachel vs Zenyatta and look for a QR vs RA showdown.  Lets have it at Belmont Park going 10 Furlongs in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.  What say you Jason?

Welcome back Quality Road.  Smooth second he took off a longstanding track record today.  

I am a Rachel fan but lets reel in our emotions a bit. Hand her Horse of the year at this point?, best filly of all time?

Think of some names Ruffian,Gallorette,Shuvee,Beldame,Busher,Imp,Lady's Secret,,Top Flight,Azeri, Miss Woodford  and so on (sorry if I did not list your Fav)

for a quick example lets take a short peek at Miss Woodford:

At 3 she won 10 of 12 starts from 7 furlongs to 2 miles some races 2 days apart, some in 2 mile heats same day. defeated the best older males of her day several times. Historians rank her as what would now be called Horse of the year. At 4 was undefeated in 9 races (I think it was 9) again against males. She had a 16 race win streak. All told She won 37 of 48 races over 5 seasons and ducked nobody. She set records. She was a Great One.  The are others.  Rachel is special but she has a ways to go before she is called the best of all time. Best of our time maybe. Do not forget the past.

It's hard to understand how a trainer who has a horse peak for the Kentucky Derby (and wins it) and Preakness (and places 2nd) can be doing too shabby of a job.  If Beyer's are any indication, Mine That Bird did exactly that.  And based on the WVD Beyer, he ran seriously below his best potential.  I guess CW gets paid the really big bucks to decide how to deal with that now.

CW was on the record as not being happy about weight assignments before the race.  In particular when Big D showed up at the door.  And Monmouth is a track that favors RA's style much more than MTBs (in addition to Haskell distance).  He was on the record with that one too.  They don't want to meet RA on her terms, JJ doesn't want to meet Zen (as of yet) on her terms.  And so it goes.

I would say the Kip Deville is a more likely candidate for the star losing it's light award.  It would appear, at least, that is best days are behind him.  He did have some good ones though!

It appears Quality Road broke the Haskell record. Hmmmmm..... I may have to re-think this. Could he give Rachel Alexandra a run for her money if his feet stay in good shape??? Draynay what say you???? Any thoughts anyone???

Couldn't help it....tears rolling down my cheeks as I watched RA easily round the final turn and just step it up a gear to pull away to the finish line.  It was beautiful!! and it is history making.  Calvin said he used the whip because she was looking around.  When I replayed the race...sure enough.  She gets in front and then is looking over at the fans who are screaming for her.  Amazing filly!!  Not only the best 3 yr. old filly.  She's the best 3 year old, period.

Ok people read the head story for today. QR smashes 30 year old record after stumbling from the start and hasnt started in 5 months. He would own RA and Draynay cannot get on the bandwagon because he is already stroking RA in the barn! The announcer was baffled by the time...he just didnt realize that QR is the SUPERFREAK!

I have read every one of these and have just a few things to say and they are to Dray....if I can recall before your hiatus you said you would NEVER call MTB a fluke again, yet here you are all over again, please give it a rest.  I admire this little gelding because he is like the little engine that could and be it first or third he still come in the money.  RA is a dream and will continue to root for her because she is class, but time in itself will tell if she is the best of all times and that I will take a wait and see attitude.  Does that mean I am knocking her...by no means as I said she is class but to down trod any other horse because it is what you do.  They are animals and can't defend themselves and give you 150% every time so go lightly or else it may come back to bite you in the b---. Enough said.

TerriV,

    Quality Road Looked Awesome, He went 6 1/2 furlongs in 1:13.45. Quality Road's final time shattered the course record set by Topsider 30 years earlier by nearly a full second....Could there actually be someone to challenge Rachel?, Only time will tell.....

What was that Draynay was saying?  Something about anyone who believes Quality Road has a chance to beat Rachel is "nuts".  Quality Road doesn't just ALMOST break records, he smashes them!  Two races --  two records.  God willing they both stay sound, and give either some competition.

I think it,s unfair to say that Mine That Bird is a horse who is losing his light.The West Virginia

Derby is a race for 3 year olds therefore all the colts should have carried the same weight.If this is not so then the race should be known as a handicap not a Derby.In the Preakness Rachael Alexandra got the 3 pounds sex allowance which is right and I don,t think anyone can say for sure that Mine That Bird would not have caught her if the race had have been a half a furlong more.Looking forward to the Travers under the same conditions

which is at 10 furlongs.I.m not saying Rachel won,t beat him but under the right weights for the class of the race Mine That Bird will give a better account of himself.

What’s this about Funnycide not accomplishing much after the Triple Crown races.  He won:

• The Jockey club Gold Cup G-1

• Dominion Day Stakes G-3

• Kings Point Hdcp.

In addition he won other minor stakes and placed and showed in numerous other stakes.

What a great weekend for horseracing fans!

Rachel was scintillating (to borrow Trevor's favorite word). I agree with everything GOOD said about her. We are truly lucky to witness her ascension to superstardom!

I also agree with everything GOOD said about Mine That Bird. He still has my heart! Jason, as far as you're concerned he never had any light...so your comment rings a little hollow.

The biggest disappointment this weekend was not MTB's 3rd but Well Armed finishing last in the San Diego. The only silver lining was Informed (another Tiznow) running above his racing record to finish a hard fought 1st.

What about Colonel John (another Tiznow) on the turf? That was pretty impressive!

Quality Road ran very well after his long layoff. He beat sprinters at their own game! Looking forward to see more of him in the future.

You see, I'm a fan of many, many horses and I appreciate all of them for their gallant efforts even when they do not win. They deserve so much more than the scorn expressed in a few of the comments.

There are some one-horse fans and some horseracing fans. You know which category fits you best!

ONCE A KENTUCKY DERBY WINNER, ALWAYS A KENTUCKY DERBY WINNER. I love the Bird and will watch all his races. ... As to the spectacular Queen Rachel, what can you say about perfection? And what a Superstar! Even my little local paper, whom I've never seen write about horse racing, had a 1/2 article about the Super Filly. I'm starting to think that if Jess Jackson had owned Rachel from the beginning, we would have had our first Filly Triple Crown winner. She won the Preakness and beat the Kentucky Derby and Belmont winners . Wow, it gives me goosebumps.

kathrynq writes:

:They cannot keep putting the balme for lost races on the jockey. I liked his win in the Derby but I find that this group of owners and trainer is too abrasive. I do not understand why they can't take a loss just like any other trainer ...."

Well let me make a comment on this. MTB's connections have been the models of patience and class and I think CW has been quite restrained in his words as to MTB's losses. I cannot begin to fathom the frustration CW is feeling at this point. When you pay someone to do a job and you specifically instruct them on how you want it done, you have a right to expect it to be followed. Now I don't mean to be harsh on the riders. There are alot of judgment calls that have to be made in a split second on their part and they want to win too. CW even took part of the blame after the Belmont and stated what he thought he could have done differently. CW has every right to feel frustrated at this point though. He knows given the right ride, MTB can win all these races. He has the ability to do so. There are advantages and disadvantages to MTB's racing style as a closer. Yes, his move must be precisely timed and if not, he'll lose more often than not. But when timed right, he could literally blow away his competitors. When he kicks in, this horse's speed is unbelievable. CW knows MTB's potential but he can't seem to get the riders on the same page and that can be incredibly frustrating. When Calvin followed CW's instructions before the KY Derby, you see how it turned out. When Mike followed his instructions for the Preakness, he did well and had he not had the traffic issue he had, the outcome may have been quite different. But then Calvin and Mike didn't follow suit for the next two races and you see how those turned out. Try and put yourself in the shoes of the trainer and see how you may feel at this point but I would hardly label him abrasive.

Draynay loves the chalk. So he wont be ripping on QR because everyone knows he loved him as did I before the derby started! QR could hang with RA but QR needs one more race before going a mile and change but I have always thought this horse was one of a kind. This track was not sped up like they said GP was! QR IS FOR REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  RA ...BRING IT!

TO:TIM G

You obviously are very bright.but many of your posts comes off as if you know more than anyone. Maybe you hang around Draynay. I've noticed others' call you out regarding your attitude. Here's a newsflash, not one person is without error!

Mike Relva 03 Aug 2009 7:07 PM

I'm not saying I don't make errors, well not in my profession if it's in any way avoidable because they might be fatal.

However, I do know racing and I speak from my perspective as an owner and my background in the game in several facets. I'm not sure that I said anything that a.Chip hasn't said over and over b. Others in racing haven't said over and over.

Also the comment about Leonard and MTB? It's absolute truth, he's a vet he xrays his horses (you said you have horses, ask him).

As far as why most of us owners run horses? That's why I and everyone I know runs them.

As far as calling Chip out for making 'bad' decisions and my comment about the internal workings?

That IS how it works, especially if you're running upper level horses and paying a huge fee to pass the box etc.

As far as Rachel? Hey go ask the common man/woman on the street if they remember ANY of the horses we all thought were terrific in the last 20 years.

Draynay beats up EVERYONE, without having ANY connection to racing. I try to give a point of view as a horse owner, never beat up a horse and don't take on people who aren't trying to demean people in racing or horses. YOU seemed to think that gave you a leg up when you talked about racing. My bet is you had far and away more people say you had a bad attitude.

Seems as though some of you consistently WANT to run off anyone who DOES know the game. Guess when we aren't around you can speculate, put words into our mouths and beat us up all you guys want huh?

Jason:

I guarantee you that if MTB ran in the Haskell, was allowed to settle bak the way he is supposed to, Rachel wouldn't have had quite the romp.  My reason is the track condition.  MTB is probably one of those ultra superior mudders.  That being said, with the way Rachel ran, so is she.

At 38 and an avid horce racing fan, I have prayed every year through out my life for a horse we would talk about through time.  I held my breath and crossed my fingers for Smarty Jones, and believed and spouted to all who would listen Big Brown was the one to watch.  

I smile at the probability we will remember this filly as one of the greats and my time has finally come to be a part of the people who watched a true champion like Secretariat.  If she had been allowed to run the Triple Crown I truly believe she would have been hailed as the only filly to capture the prestigious award.  She finished the Haskell wanting to continue, proving her ability to run the Belmont length.

This is her destiny.  God bless and God speed.

Paula Higgins please reread my post,

I did not say the overall 3 year old crop is subpar, although I do believe the 3 year old fillies are quite mediocre, I only pointed out Draynay's yearlong sentiment that the 3 year olds are weak and subpar, yet he showers RA with glory for beating up on a group he clearly doesn't think much of. Furthermore, I said that RA is a great horse but it's preposterous for anyone to think that RA in which the majority of her campaign is against fields of 2,3,4,5 mediocre fillies puts her near or over Secretariat.

Greg J.  WOW what a race!  You are right.  She is history in the making.  Beautiful filly and she is sooooooooo pretty!  I agree with your post to The Dray too.  NO CLASS!  :)

Draynay.  It is my opinion that you annoy a lot of people.  I myself would not like to have that reputation.  To put down horses that are good horses is very very low class.  Grow up.  :)

Okay dray, QR smashes a course record and do you still think he can't provide any competition to RA.  

Mike R. Tim G is pretty correct on what he's saying.

You know what a wealth of information there is at the track and even though Doc is from New Mexico, a lot of people know him.

When you stop to think that we could only get the best filly in years on a horse racing network and the Derby winner on obscure Fox Sports channels? It doesn't look like we're on the front pages.

How can people remember or admire something they can't even see?

I don't take him as having an attitude, he's like a lot of us at the track he doesn't like people who don't know the facts or the real way stuff happens here telling everyone different and misleading people. Putting us in a bad light.

Usually the ones who get most upset about people from racing telling truths or trying to tell people how it really is, well those folks just don't want someone around who knows.

The ones who aren't involved, come across on here like they're preaching the gospel and I've seen enough misleading, hurtful, incorrect stuff on here to last me a lifetime. Whatever I have left anyway.

Draynay,  

     When someone gives his word, (As you did after you were humiliated in the Belmont Contest), It is a promise, affirmation, or assurance.

You said you will never call "Mine that Bird" a "fluke" again.   As a replacement, You started to call the Kentucky Derby Winner, The "Derby Mud Winner".   Now, You are back to calling him a "Fluke"...

    I have a question for you, Seriously, After breaking your word in record time,  Does giving your word or making a promise mean anything to you?

Breezin'- horses ALWAYS have something to prove. Otherwise, the greatest racehorse of all time would be (inset name here).

Paula: I admire YOUR passion and fire. Tammy, you said it best: remember the past. No one can reasonably make a case for 'Rachel' being the best of all time. Not yet. She's the best of her generation, so far, but before she beats another  field of 3-year-olds, I would want to see her either beat older horses and/or beat older horses over the turf.

Let's try some perspective here: even Genuine Risk, a Derby winner against males, also placed second in the Preakness and Belmont and no one would consider her close to the greatest filly. Or  Winning Colors, who beat males in two Derbies--Kentucky and Santa Anita and lost in a Breeders' Cup legend to Private Ensign, an undefeated champion.  

We can just go back to a somewhat obscure (to this group) champion, the 1979 European HOY Three Troikas, who didn't make any of your lists for great fillies, but who acheived as much if not more than 'Rachel' has thus far.

All Three Troikas accomplished at 3 was win five Group 1s, including beating older males and females in the Arc de Triomphe at a mile and one-half. And Three Troikas is just a footnote when comparing THE greatest distaffers.

No, 'Rachel' needs to show more depth and beat older males or win on the turf, just like most great champions, before she can be considered one of the greatest filles of all time.

I am a huge Quality Road fan but if they were to race in 3 weeks Rachel would win.  Ask me 2 months from now and I many have another answer but until someone beats the champ I will stay with the champ.  There is no doubt if Quality Road was in the Derby he would have won and not the fluke.  But he looked very good today and I hope he comes out good from the race.  When he runs he is my choice, if he runs against Rachel, Rachel will be my choice.  I think Munnings already taught us there is a big difference between 7 furlongs and 1 1/8th.

I was at Saratoga RC today and witnessed Quality Roads unbelievable comeback. Stumbled at the start, was forced 5 wide on the turn, and smash the track record by almost a full second? A FULL SECOND? How many times have any of you seen a track record broken by almost a full second, with not a very good trip mind you.

He is the only horse in the country that can run with Rachel.

So now I'm almost sure that Rachel will go in the Woodward rather than the Travers. Jackson/Asmussen don't want to run her against her stablemate Kensei, and would much rather face the apparently weaker older males than Quality Road.

Paula - I could not agree with you more on MTB.  I love him even if he is not "elite" (like I consider Rachel to be).  He gave us a visual of the American Dream in motion and for that, I am thankful and will always root for.

Draynay, it is your seeming hatred for a horse (of all things) that disturbs me.  Just because he is not Secretariat doesn't mean he is not fan-worthy or deserving of your contempt.  That kind of negativity is simply not necessary. Maybe you should try running a horse race (as in running, not jockey), maybe you would have more respect for the animals.

Funny now that Quality Road is a Pletcher trained horse I have not heard one word from him calling the track "juiced up" because Quality Road set another record. Hmmmmm.

Mike Relva.

I can pretty much assure you that Tim G is very unlikely to hang around someone who puts people or horses down the way Draynay does.

It's really irritating to those in horse racing to see a game that's already in trouble, with somebody who says the things Draynay says. Does anybody think that's helpful and enhances the casual web surfers idea of racing if they happen onto this board?

Besides, that comment is the same one you used on Wanda, seems like you were posting in all CAPS, got called out by Steve H and were doing a lot of telling people from a racetrackers point of view how it was, not that long ago. We all 'heard' about your two minor stakes horses every time you wanted to make a point or call someone out (and not in half as nice a way as Tim or some others).

Quality Road looks like a good one, probably the best 3-year-old colt in America.

OK...here is a tasty scenario.  Zenyatta rolls in the Hirsch, Quality Road wins the Travers, and Rachel beats olders in the Woodward.  JCGC - Rachel, Zenyatta and Quality Road...now that would be fun!

Greg J I was either going to bring back "The Fluke" or start calling him "The Claimer" when he got beat by a allowance horse. I thought I would go for class and stick with calling him a one race FLUKE.  I find its best to always take the classy route.

CINDI

Great  points! I agree w/ you.

ATTHEBARN2

I understand and respect what you're saying.

STARDUSTY ROSE

How are you? Great points as usual.  

i just read in the NTRA webside that jackson is not going to run rachel in the travers. figures that one. don't know if he's afraid of the distance or just want to see kensie lose the travers. even though i was inpress by her performance in the haskell, i think she will have a hard time with quality road that my set for a closer. i think the best 3yrs cold could be QR but i start it to like summer bird a lot lately. i could see any of the birds winning the travers. the good part is that i'm going to be there againg this year. i will like to see rachel race agains seventh street, seattle smooth and music note for a change. this is like big brown all over again but better.

The difference between Quality Road and Munnings is that Todd figured he'd try Munnings, if it wasn't his distance he'd just back him up to the Kings Bishop as his next out.

Quality Rosd, won the Fla Derby setting a new track record for  1 1/8 miles.

His sire Elusive Quality was more of a sprinter but he also was Raven's Pass' sire and RP did win the Classic at 1 1/4 miles. EQ's sire Gone West, sired runners of every distance and QR's damsire was Strawberry Road also a sire whose progeny was effective at a lot of different distances.

Todd said the race today probably wasn't the best distance for QR, but he needed a race after the long layoff and Todd didn't want to stress him first out, plus that as we all know was the first race under Todd.

Seems to me like his pedigree and past performance points to the fact that he should handle 9F or 10F just fine.

By the way wasn't he your odds on pick, well amongst many, for the 1 1/4 (10F) Kentucky Derby?

Soldier Course: thank you.

Zookeeper: This past weekend is why I decided I like the second half of the season better than the first. In the first half, it's all about the 3 yr. olds. In the second, there are all these wonderful horses. And I do look for and root for any of the Tiznows. Colonel John was awesome, Well Armed looked like he just decided not to run that day. Mr. Hot Stuff is waiting in the wings - who knows what he'll do! Maybe he would be a good steeplechaser, like McDynamo. He'd be using his brain and energy at the same time & be too busy to look around. LOL!

Helsbelles & others - I have to admit I thought Chip Woolley had a 'chip' on his shoulder at the Kentucky Derby. But then he said how exhausted he was hauling himself around with crutches. And he has been very gracious since then, the Louisville Courier wrote many articles about how friendly he was and how much he opened himself and MTB up to the public. And the owners have also been gracious. I know I've used that word a lot, but it describes them well.

To all: it's going to be a great Breeders Cup season!

Collette Marie and Former NM Race Tracker...loved your comments about MTB and his trainer, Chip Woolley. I think Chip is doing a great job and those things some people call excuses are actually REASONS. And his race in the WVA? Well, that could be just a prep race for his next one. And class?  Chip Woolley acts like he has more class than many on here...

LDP...hope you don't ever have to go to the hospital for anything...the one where Colette Marie works. You said the doctors and nurses there are underdogs. Surely, that isn't exactly what you meant or how you meant it.  Just didn't sound right.

And as for "Rachel Alexandra?" Awsome!

To whover asked about Julien Leparoux riding Mine That Bird: Chip Wooley orinally had Julien Leparoux to ride Mine That Bird in the West Virginia Derby until his agent remembered he'd booked him for another race that day.

It's good to hear that I'm not the only one liking Rachel Alexandra but not impressed with her connections.

Thanks to everyone for supporting sportsmanship over ego and appreciating the efforts and courage of all the horses who race for us.

Interesting analogy from trainer Ron Ellis, paraphrased: The Breeders Cup is like the Super Bowl.  The location is chosen ahead of time and everybody knows where it's going to be played.  If the Super Bowl was going to be played in Detroit and the Packers made it to the Super Bowl but didn't like playing in Detroit  because they don't play well on turf, you can bet the Packers still go to the Super Bowl.

Quoted from today's DRF: "Though he doesn't know how or where it will happen, Jerry Moss is holding out hope that the race everyone wants to see, Rachel Alexandra vs. Zenyatta, will somehow come off. Moss believes it should take place at the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita's Oak Tree meeting in November, but Jess Jackson, the majority owner of Rachel Alexandra, has emphatically and repeatedly stated the Breeders' Cup is out because of Santa Anita's synthetic surface.

"The Breeders' Cup was created for this kind of circumstance," Moss said Monday on a national teleconference. "I'm not sure where else to have this meeting. The national press usually centers around the Triple Crown and the Breeders' Cup. I'm conditioned to respect the Breeders' Cup."

The Breeders' Cup is being run at Santa Anita for the second straight year.

"I didn't pick the place where the Breeders' Cup is run," Moss said. "We've run in the Breeders' Cup in all types of weather all over the place. If the Breeders' Cup was run in New York or Churchill Downs, we'd be all over the country."

Somewhere recently Jess Jackson said he knew Rachel Alexandra would run well in the slop at Monmouth for the Haskell and then in the same article said she wasn't a mud or turf horse.  Anybody else see that?

Ooops, it's late & I'm tired.

That was Lori about the MTB team. I agree with every word you said. Helsbelles, I saw that race last year with Commentator and it was all the more impressive because of his age.

Todd said the track was 'manicured to cater to speed', it may well have been. But, he also was upset after his high dollar colt for his biggest client just got beat.

This sounds more to me like sheer frustration and disappointment not putting the other colt down:

"I don't understand on a big day why they changed a surface that was fair and safe. I'm NOT SURE WE would have beaten Quality Road on Friday, but we would have had a better chance."

The track today wasn't groomed to be speed favoring and as Saratoga AJ said Quality Road had all kinds of problems, no one thought he broke the record, they went through all kinds of timing because they thought it was incorrect.

A stumble at the break, 5 wide on a track that had been upgraded to fast just a couple races prior? Not speed favoring like it was a couple days ago when a 20,000 &25,000 claimer nearly broke track records.

RHoward + helsbelles:

I think there is only one American horse who can run with Rachel on a dirt track, and we saw him today at Saratoga. Quality Road is more talented than any of the older males, although the stretchout to 10 furlongs in less than 4 weeks will be extremely demanding. Additionally, Quality Road is unproven beyond 9 furlongs and I am not 100% confident in his ability to rate should the pace of a race be brutal. Yet, the talent is most certainly there, which is more than I can say about any other horse out there, with the possible exception of Zenyatta on synthetics.

Quality Road's return is huge for the historical standing of this crop of 3 year old males. When, if ever, was a 3 year old filly 6 lengths superior to the best 3 year old males? Go For Wand certainly wasn't 6 lengths better than Unbridled or Summer Squall, if she was better at all. It would be extremely difficult to claim that Ruffian was 6 lengths superior to Wajima or Foolish Pleasure.  Perhaps in 1945 Busher was that much superior to 3 year old male champ, Fighting Step, and in 1944 Twilight Tear equally towered over male champ By Jimminy. Then there was Beldame in 1905. Yet, to find a 3 year old filly that towered over her male counterparts like Rachel towers over the 3 year old males of 2009, we would have to go back over 60 years. Quality Road, however, should narrow the gap between Rachel and the 3 year old males.

Is RA a super filly?  You bet. Can or could she beat Zenyatta-maybe or maybe not.  As for MTB critics, remember that he is the only horse in the past couple months that was able to close on her.  Can she go the classic distance and maintain  against closers like MTB or Zenyatta-something to think about. I think Zenyatta could close on RA.  I also think that Quality Road could run with her and past her.  Does that make me less a RA fan-a resounding no. I just think she has had things her way.  For MTB critics, he ran all three Crown races-did RA or Summerbird-NO. Cut the litle guy a break.  He may be one dimensionable, but who says that RA might not be either. I would love to see her face off against Quality Road with MTB also in the field at the classic distance, then I will admit she is the best.

Chip is doing a fine job of representing racing. He isn't bigheaded or rude and he's very accomodating to the fans.

Jess seems to be saying something different everytime I hear him and well Steve just has a lot of questions swirling around him.

Drayton, why do you HAVE to call Mine That Bird anything derogatory? Did someone assign you that duty?

Did Chip, Mark or Doc call your favorite Big Brown a claimer when he lost to a horse eligible for a nwx2?

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know class if it jumped up and bit you on the hind quarters.

I can see Kensei running in the Travers and Rachel in the Woodward.  Why?  The 3 y-o colt division is up for grabs.  If Kensei goes in the Travers and wins, that would be three in a row including a victory over the Belmont and Derby winners.  The championship would be his to lose providing he runs and wins at least one more credible race after that (probably the Jockey Club Cup seeing that Jackson won’t go to Santa Anita).  I don’t think Quality Road is ready for the Travers and might also look towards the Woodward.

I also think they would prefer Rachel to go 1-1/8M rather than 1-1/4M.  For Rachel the Alabama would prove nothing.  The Personal Ensign against older fillies and mares is 1-1/4M and would prove nothing without Zenyatta or at the very least if it included a number of horses Zen has already defeated.  Therefore, the logical race for her would be the Woodward at 1-1/8M and against older horses and possibly Quality Road.  A win there and she is for sure HOY.

As with others, I am impressed with Quality Road. However, the reason he set the track record in the Florida Derby is that Gulfstream had recently been renovated and previous tracks records were striken from the books. His final time for the Florida Derby would not even had been a stakes record had pre-2006 runnings been included.

Today's track record is obviously more legit. However, Saratoga traditionally has not had a major stakes race for 3 year olds or older horses at 6.5 furlongs, and thus fewer elite horses have run that distance than 7, 9 or 10 furlongs. Still, Quality Road's Beyer for the Amsterdam should be over 110, giving him 3 straight figues topping that number. Racing really needs his hooves to stay healthy.

TerriV:

Thank you for your kind remark from earlier today.

Quality Road won the Fountain of Youth, The Florida Derby and now the Amsterdam.  Funny, not one person is claiming the track was juiced yet after the Florida Derby many here were claiming the track to be juiced.  Is it possible you were all wrong ?  My guess is Rachel is moving on to older horses in the Woodward.  It gives her an extra week of rest and gives Kensei a chance at a G1 win. If Kensei wins the Travers his breeding value will go up big time. Facing elder males at 9 furlongs will suit Rachel very well.  Rachel should go to the Woodward, Beldame, and finish the year at the Clark.

Laz:

I'm not sure why you're setting your Beyer criteria for Rachel at 120. I can think of only one filly or mare over the last 25 years that ran a figure of 120, and that was 4 year old Princess Rooney in the 1984 Breeders Cup Distaff. Inside Information ran a 119 in the 1995 BC Distaff, however she too was 4 years old. Hidden Lake won the 97' Hempstead with a 119, also at 4. I also believe that Sharp Cat and Mariah's Storm ran 119 figs at 4. Personal Ensign ran a 115 in the 88' Distaff at age 4, the same number Bayakoa ran in 89' when she was 5.

As for 3 year old fillies, I think Go For Wand approached 120 in the 90' Beldame and/or Test. Lakeway ran either a 116 or 117 in the 94' Mother Goose and/or Hollywood Oaks. Surfside ran a 116 when she beat grade 2 older males in the Clark Handicap, but that race took place in late November of her 3 year old season.

So, with her 116 number in early August, Rachel has already placed herself among an elite group of female racehorses.  This accomplishment is made more significant by the fact that she has only run through early August of her 3 year old season.

I must admit, this discussion is great with so many fans of several horses - as opposed to the predominant "my horse is better than your horse" statements I find on other boards. So many good points and perspectives!

I am a big fan of Rachel's but she did look tired and a little distressed after the Haskell. She may be running too much on her great heart and I pray that she doesn't breakdown.

longwaytomay:

The point Jason is trying to make is that Chip and the rest of Mine That Bird's connections knew he would carrying 122 lbs in the WV Derby from the moment they announced their intention to run in the race in mid-June. This was so because the weight assignments were clearly described in the conditions of the race. If they had such a problem with the weight, they should have never committed the horse to the race in the first place. They should have realized, given the conditions of the race, that some fairly good horses were going to be able to get in with 111 or 113 lbs. Thus, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Having stated this, there can be little doubt that the weight Bird was giving to Big Drama(7 lbs given Coa came in at 115) and Soul Warrior(11 lbs) negatively affected his shot at winning. So, I feel sympathy for the horse, but not his connections.

There seems to be a real bias against Rachel in some quarters and I don't understand it at all.

We should all be celebrating what a great filly can do for the sport.

The racing media should be promoting her. However,I was listing to Steve Byk's radio show today and he hardly mentioned her win yet went on and on about

other less accomplished horses.

Saratoga AJ I don't think Rachel or her connections have anything to fear in Quality Road if they both decide to go in the Travers. QR would be coming back in 26 days off a monster effort and going 3-1/2 furlongs further after being out all spring. A class horse yes, but Rachel is in much better condition. It's Pletcher who should be worried if Rachel shows up. This would be Munnings all over again. Even if Rachel stays away QR would not be a great wager in the Travers. He would be the class of the field yes, but there would be better value elsewhere. It's a conditioning issue for him right now.

Heigh what's this about "Rachel" having locked up Horse of the Year honours?  Neigh lad we will have plenty to say about that before the end of the season!!!  You had better believe it!

Signed

Sea the Stars (IRE), Zenyatta, Mr Clangtastic (AUS), Casino Drive (Japan), Vodka (Japan) Yirga, (GODOLPHIN), CAVALRYMAN (DARLEY) FRANCE, Sariska (UK)and Kingsgate Native (UK)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drifting Sage,

    No i meant the patients who are being taken care of, especially any of them who are really sick.

"Having Kensei might also come into play into the decision process, which is not a problem to have but a blessing," Asmussen said. "If Kensei trains lights-out between now and the Travers, it's hard to deny him the option of running. . . . I might be speaking out of turn here, but it is my belief that it would be unlikely the two of them would run against each other."

helsbells,

    QR also has had some good horses pushing him to those records aswell. RA, never been pushed in her records, nor in her near misses. QR did look fabulous though, no denying that. Looks like he came back better than he was in the spring and a match between him and RA would be one heck of a race. Only thing i don't like about it is that it has too much of a Foolish Pleasure vs Ruffian vibe. Both were very fast horses both liked to be near the front, which is the same with these two. Though QR is not FP and RA is not Ruffian, so until they finally meet i will be sitting with anticipation at the thought of running on the same track togeather. That race would break records i think.

barb,

    I was just naming names right then. I'll go back and re read the comments, and if i did misread sorry to those. I am not sorry for pointing out my fact though, since some have stated before that they have thought MTB is the only horse to ever do that. I will agree it's impressive, but geese cut Jason and others a break. He didn't say anything bad about MTB, just stood back watched and stated his opinion. If people don't like it that is they're problem, but it isn't like he bashed MTB in. Before the Preakness i thought MTB was a fluke. Now i've admitted plenty of times i'm wrong, but by the same token i've said the same things about him being one dimensional and just a good not great horse. Since when did calling a horse good become bashing a horse?

Boy, I am really, really tired of people bashing Jess Jackson. The man is a sportsman. Without him, Rachel would still be demolishing overmatched fillies. Because of his ownership, she has the chance to demolish overmatched colts.

I am so sick of these football analogies because they are such red-herrings! If a human breaks a leg, it is set in a cast and heals. I don't know if you noticed, but there have been SEVEN fatal injuries on the synthetic track at Del Mar in the past week (the BH article said six but one occurred after the article was published). In the article, the track vetrinarian said that different surfaces put pressue on different muscles and joints. Furthermore, you never know when synthetics are going to have issues until it is too late. Remember the Oak Tree meet last year? If she was my horse, you'd better believe that she would not go to the Breeder's Cup. Does anyone remember that great turf horse George Washington? He ran in the Breeder's Cup classic on dirt, much to the dismay of everyone who saw how that ended. Maybe it was the change of surface and maybe it wasn't, but it was clear that day that he was not comfortable with the track.

So you guys are free to pout and moan and groan, but you are seeing so much more of her talent because of Jess Jackson. Also remember, she is not your horse, and you wouldn't have to live with yourself if you made the wrong choice and it ended in disaster. I don't blame him one bit.

helsbelles 03 Aug 2009 2:09 PM wrote: "Actually, let me amend that;  I can think of several American horses that could potentially beat Rachel:  Quality Road, Rail Trip, Zenyatta, Colonel John, Commentator, and Well Armed on a good day."

Helsbelles, I have to disagree with some of your horses up there.  Quality Road, Colonel John & Commentator are about the only three that could possibly beat Rachel.  Add onto your list I Want Revenge, I think if he comes back, he could give her a run for her money.  But Zenyatta, being a closer, wouldn't be able to beat Rachel who has such a powerful closing.  Well Armed would have to be at the very top of his game and even then, I do believe he'd get beaten.  Colonel John could very possibly do it and is the most likely one to be able to beat her.  Right now, I don't think there is a 3yo who could defeat Rachel.  She is too good and too professional.  Nothing seems to rattle her.  We have not yet seen the best of her, she is a phenomenal horse who is very multi dimensional, having proven she can win on dirt, mud and synthetic.  I hope Jackson tries her on turf.  I would have to say, on turf, only one 3yo might have a chance against her and that's Nicanor.  He is impressive as h*ll on turf and in constantly improving.  He should be absolutely amazing as a 4yo since he took so long to mature.  

You seem to be very biased against Rachel and I can't figure out why.  She has answered every challenge set in front of her and done so in a very dominating manner.  There should be no doubts left about her talent.  She's beaten the Kentucky Derby winner (on a track she didn't like much) and now she's beaten the Belmont Winner on a very sloppy track.  What more does she have to do to get you to quit doubting her?

How can anyone have respect for MTB's connections????  They were the ones who started the whole thing to try to keep Rachel Alexandra OUT of the Preakness!!  That's not doing anything good for the sport, that's showing immaturity, a lack of class and a lack of professionalism!  Rachel had just as much right to be in the Preakness as any other horse there and more than some!!  They simply wanted to block her entry for one reason and one reason ONLY: they were TERRIFIED that they would be beaten by a girl!  That is poor sportsmanship at it's worst and definitely not anything that is for the better of the sport. I hope Chip and his connections go back to New Mexico until they can grow up and start doing what is best for the sport!

josue555 03 Aug 2009 10:41 PM

Even if that is true that Rachel isn't going to the Travers, I can understand it.  Rachel has destroyed the 3yos this season.  She would be better set, at this time, to aim to the Jockey Club Gold Cup and face older competition.  As good as Quality Road is, I just don't think he can beat Rachel.  Her speed figures improve every race and she hasn't been asked to put everything she's got into a single race yet.  We haven't seen her best.  At this point, I think she's pretty much got Horse of the Year locked up, with Zenyatta not leaving California again this year, I don't see how she can win it.

josue555, where do you see that information?  I'm looking through all the articles on www.ntra.com/stats_bios.aspx and I see nothing stating that Rachel won't be in the Travers.  I see where they are saying that they are considering either the Travers stakes or the Woodward on Sept 5 against older males, but nothing stating that they are not taking her to the Travers for sure.  

Hey Steve from St. Louis: I agree with you 100% (and I loved Three Troikas)

RA is a very very good filly.  I really, really like her but I want to see her going more than than 1 1/8 miles before putting her in with the greats.  

I want to say, Jason, that I don't think anyone was using the draynay-like language about greatness for MTB but we were calling him a gutsy little horse who did try in every race.  And even though you state that his star is falling, he has managed to finish in the money in every race since the Derby, hasn't he?  I still like him and I also agree with the person who compared him to Seabiscuit...and isn't his trainer a little like Seabiscuit's as portrayed in the movie too?  

Good gosh, has Quality Road grown even more? By size comparison, he looked like he was racing against ponies other than CCC.

Quality Road's Beyer for the Amsterdam came back a 103. This tells me Saratoga was blazing Monday(in contrast Monmouth was "average" Sunday) and that the 6.5 furlong record at Saratoga is one of the least competitive records at the track. By this, I refer to the fact that Saratoga has traditionally not hosted many important races at 6.5 furlongs. In contrast, grade 1 races like the Forego, King's Bishop, and Test are featured at 7 furlongs, the Jim Dandy and Whitney have been run at 9 furlongs(and more recently so have the Go For Wand and Woodward), and then there is the Travers at 10 furlongs. The 6.5 furlong distance does not have corresponding races of such quality, races which would have attracted elite horses.  In other words, the 6.5 furlong record was a somewhat "soft" record. Still, it was a sharp return for a horse we already know is a top flight 9 furlong horse. Like I said, Quality Road looks like the 2nd best DIRT horse on the continent to me.

Mine that Bird is a lovely, brave, little colt with a heart bigger than himself, who always does his best.  What is there to knock him about?

I am one very happy QR fan...wow.

When Jason tossed him from consideration for the FOY (;-), I, and only one other blogger, still stayed on his bandwagon, calling his second race the toss out, not QR himself...I am still doing the Church Lady Superior dance...!

i fully agree with mr jackson for boycotting the breeders cup.he is not the only one.and for the people who say quit complaining and accept synthetics i say dont tell me how to spend my money.

To put Quality Roads performance yesterday in further perspective, he not only shattered the 30 yr. old 6 1/2 furlong record (Topsider, 115 lbs, 1:14.40) by almost a full second (1:13.45 carrying 123 lbs.), but he hit the 6 furlong mark at 1:07.22...which would have smashed the 30 yr. old track record for that distance too (Spanish Riddle 1:08 8/72 113 lbs.). And a review of the other races times indicate that Saratoga's track was not overly fast yesterday. Add the stumbling start and 5 wide trip... Quality Road's performance was astounding...still hard to believe.

Oh, and did I mention, his second straight track record when you consider the Florida Derby in March.

I would like to post a correction for my post a few days ago. First,I was aware that Kincsem raced outside of Hungary and won. Second, I should have mentioned that Camarero was male. Third, I was not trying to insult Peppers Pride in any way. Anyway, now that I've done that, I would like to say that Draynay can't call Quality Road his horse, and then turn around and say that he would take Rachel in a race with the two. I personally think Quality Road has a great shot at winning the Travers if he enters, Rachel Alexandra or no Rachel Alexandra.

QR is a beast. I think I remember Pletcher saying they planned on running him back in three weeks if he did well in the Amsterdam. so we will see what happens. Shaping up to be a good race.

Rachel will not run in the Travers.

Jackson will not announce where Rachel will run probably for another week or more, but after sifting through all the quotes from him and Asmussen, I find it very unlikely that she will be in the Travers.  Having said that I think the Travers will be a very interesting race without her.  Quality Road will be pounded at the windows and I believe his talent warrants that backing.  Will he be ready to beat the best 3-year-old colts at 10 furlongs?  That will be an intersting question.  

Here are my early Travers odds:

Quality Road 9-5

Kensei  4-1

Summer Bird 5-1

Mine That Bird 5-1

Charitable Man 8-1

Warrior's Reward 10-1

Our Edge 10-1

Blame 12-1

RA was magnificent at the Haskell.  I wish she would be there next year for the Triple Crown.  

I know she can do it-- she will be the first filly in HISTORY to WIN THE TRIPLE CROWN.  

Now that should DEMOLISH ALL records, and put her Equal to SECRETARIAT, and ABOVE all the fillies that came before.

I BELIEVE SHE CAN DO IT!  God willing, she will stay healthy...

Only question needs to be asked now....does Jess Jackson have the cahones to put RA up against Quality Road in the Travers and risk her undefeated season???

     What about this scenario?

     Rachel, Zenyatta, and Quality Road run at the Spa in the Woodward?  For Zenyatta it would be perfect, It would be 28 days after the Hirsch, A mile and an eighth on the dirt and two turns.  The turnaround time is enough for her to travel and be ready, Rachel has nothing to gain in the Travers, Gives her an extra week to be ready, and for Quality Road, The distance is less then the Travers, gives him an extra week to recover from his incredible run yesterday, and barring any hoof problems , He should be ready.  It would be a perfect scenario, The only obstacle I see is the detention barn and Zenyatta traveling from the west coast...Would be great if the stars all aligned and this could be pulled off, Stranger things have happened...

dray your along way from perfect, if you were perfect as you say you would have picked alot more winners. i dont see you hitting 5% of your picks. your just stuck on yourself.

I don't care what Zen does for the next 3 months..  She can run the Breeders cup classic Upside down .. or win the Hirsch blindfolded.  Makes no difference.  Coz with RA's Haskell victory, the Deal's in the Bag...

RA is the HORSE OF THE YEAR 2009!!! Yippeeeee!!!

Seriously, Zen had a top notch year in 2008, but that was the last of her best years.  This year 2009, she almost never left the barn!!  The Hirsch will just be her 4th win (assuming she wins) this year.  Even if she wins the BC CLASSIC (assuming they LET her compete there), I'm telling ya--- I aint gonna vote for no horse for HOTY which has ONLY won 5 races that year...

That aint fair to the hard-workin blokes who kept on racing and winning all year inspite of all the rain and the heat, and the traffic y'all.  It just AINT FAIR..

If you gonna give the HOTY to just any OLD-TIMER who won a handful of good races IN THE PAST regardless of the PRESENT performances, then give the HOTY to WELL-ARMED.  He should deserve it more than Zen.

Zen is a beast, true.  She is undefeated, true.  But she hasnt ACCOMPLISHED much this 2009.  She may have done a lot in 2008, but that DOESNT COUNT in 2009.

I dont give HOTY to every horse that wins the Clement Hirsch or the Vanity, or any stakes race.  If that is the case, maybe we would have 10 or more HOTYs-- which is a ridiculous idea.

The spirit of the HOTY is to bestow OFFICIAL recognition to the one that deserves it-- the Horse that BEST exemplifies the unrelenting Fighting spirit, Stamina, Courage, and Heart of the American (or International) Horse.

How can you award HOTY to Zen who NEVER HAD a single challenging race in 2009.  She NEVER took ANY RISKS -- Never went outside Cali, Never raced colts, Never raced on anything except synthetics (only raced on dirt ONCE), Never changed Trainers, Never tried Detention barns, etc. etc.

I wouldnt be surprised if she brought her track with her to Kentucky IF AND WHEN she races RA.

Its clear to me (why this escapes others, I dont know), that Zen is NOT HOTY MATERIAL.  A champion, according to an old Chinese proverb, is "a man (or woman) who is thrown into the river, but comes up alive with fish in his/her mouth."  

As far as I'm concerned, I still need to see Zen's TRIAL BY FIRE, before I can accept that she is WORTHY candidate for 2009 HOTY.

Right now, the Mosses' have pulled all the stops to see to it that the grand old dame gets a Cakewalk everywhere she races.  That is NO WAY TO TEST A CHAMPION. That is, though, the best way to treat a PET.  Why would you award HOTY to a pet?

RA  is the best because she already endured and trimphed over her own TRIALs BY FIRE (Preakness --she won despite only 2 weeks rest and from post 13; and Haskell -- the stiffest field of 6 bonafide champions).  

Nothing left to do now, but give her what she deserves -- the Title of HORSE OF THE YEAR 2009.  She deserves nothing less for all her sacrifices.  Afterall, no other horse has done more..

Rachel Alexandra - I can run out of superlatives quickly. She's just awesome. Can you imagine what kind of resume she will compile if she stays healthy and keeps her form through next season??  Unimaginable!... I like her connections OK... Jackson is a true sportsman, and Borel is a modern day folk hero. Asmussen should stop doping horses...

Kensei - definitely a good horse on the rise!

Mine That Bird - Couldn't agree more with a lot of you here. He's one-dimensional... But he is a real nice gelding, and a KY Derby winner (can't take that away from him) that hopefully will stay healthy and compete for a good while, like Funny Cide, who was always fun to watch.

Dray,

As Greg J stated, you made the promise you would not call "Mine That Bird a fluke"...you promised..  now.. you are doing just that...

Mine That Bird has been in the money and thats great...

Draynay, don't try to skirt around the issue of breaking your promise.  There is a adage, " a person is only as good as his/her word". In this case it's looking like you don't even have that. The only question I have, is why do you feel the need to deride the horses? You can make your views known just as well without all the insufferable ridicule.

Paula,

Yes, Quality Road is all that!  Fabulous performance.  If he ever hooks up with RA, that would be something.  He's VERY fast.  She's fast too but he may have the edge.  We will only know if it happens.

Terry V,

Thanks for the nice post!

If they were thinking of running RA in the Travers they are probably having secound thoughts after watching Quality Road's performance. IMO opinion they/RA will stay away from that race.

If the track wasn't souped up yesterday then why did the place horse finish only 2+ lengths behind? If the track was playing fair i Would exoect that the secound place horse would finish MUCH further behind.

The reason Dray and the rest of us have to keep refering to MTB as the Fluke is because the rest of you feel the need to tell us that he is great.  When it was clear for all to see that the Derby was a fluke win.  

And to those of you who like to compare the Fluke to Funny Cide, please stop.  That is derogatory to Funny Cide.  At least he won a couple of times after that first saturday in may.

Atthebarn2 I am going to address this one more time and one more time only.  I don't care much for the Derby mud winner.  I believe the race should have gone to a horse that earned it Pioneer of the Nile. But because of a fluke race on a fluke track we got a fluke winner.  A horse that won nothing before the Derby and has not won anything since. For the last time I don't care for the horse or the connections that tried to keep Rachel out of the Preakness.  There is no racing rule that says I have to love every horse that runs.  Every time that fluke runs he proves my point that he is nothing more than a fluke winner of the Derby just like Giacamo! Funny thing, I have not heard one person on this blog tell me how much they love that tough little horse Giacamo.  Lastly, I find it puzzling that many do not give Big Brown his proper due.  Big Brown did something Secretariat NEVER did he won a G1 race on dirt after Belmont.  Big Brown lost one race in his life and we all saw him get stepped on and his shoe dislodged. Its the only time it ever happend to him and the ONLY time he ever lost.  The horse was running on injured feet and accomplished a lot for a horse with paper feet. Quality Roads feet were said to be better than Big Browns yet he wasn't able to run in a single Triple Crown race.  Say what you want but there has NEVER been a more dominant performance in the Kentucky Derby than Big Browns and his Florida Derby still leaves me speechless.  Many want to trash Big Brown for losing 1 race. Does that make all of you hypocrites?

No Dave, just you and Draynay have been referring to him as that.

You as a wannabe whatever who apparently craves attention (what happened, your imaginary friends in Moms basement get mad and leave?) and DN as disrespectful are pretty much the only ones doing it. Do either of you HAVE any legitimate points? Points that you haven't stolen from someone else?

My bet is Chip et al are crying all the way to the bank. But then I guess you and DN have a horse or ANYTHING that's put almost 2 mil into your account?

Mike M, Trust me the track wasn't

'souped' up. it was Good until about 5 races before QR and labeled Fast thereafter. Did you WATCH the race? QR was urged then ridden out in a handride.

The horse that finished behind him by 2 1/4lengths, would have been further back if QR hadn't stumbled etc, then Johnny wouldn't have ridden QR out. Plus Capt CM is no slouch in a sprint. Also 2+ lengths in a 6 1/2 F race is pretty decent. If you'd have been there and seen it, seen the track earlier (I'm pretty sure it wasn't sealed, that's when it gets really fast) you wouldn't be joining the trash talking fool.

Cowgirl Sally, actually the Eclipse awards are as Frank Stronach says, a popularity contest voted on by "judges who may have a potential conflict of interest". This after he won one that everyone was pretty surprised at.

Who votes for them or receive ballots? The NTRA, the National Turf Writers Association, and Daily Racing Form. All votes are pooled. 149 turf writers, 58 racing secretaries and 74 Equibase members who make up the NTRA bloc,  59 employees from the Daily Racing Form.

Jason who was/is a voter, said on his OWN blog, he doesn't put much into that vote.(or something to that effect).

You don't think that Racing secretaries have a vested interest in who they vote for? If not, I have some ocean front property in AZ as George Strait would say.

Sounds like i struck a nerve Shawn.  

And yes i do have points, they are called every race he has run in this year, bar one fluke win.  Those are my points. I mean even Giacomo was able to win at least once after the derby.  

If QR runs in the Travers, which is considered more prestigious than the Woodward, and wins, either beating RA or she doesn't show, then runs in the Jockey Gold cup against older horses and wins, then the Breeders cup and wins, he could POSSIBLY knock RA out of HOY...

Good grief, here we go with all the excuses, AGAIN. Get over it move on with your super wonderful life. Go drive your car, jump in your pool do whatever but DROP it.

I didn't hear too many people calling BB names, a lot of people dissed Kent and Rick but they can both defend themselve.

Even the colts trainer said all the garbage you are claiming didn't affect the colt, GIVE IT A REST.

As for those who tried to 'keep RA out of the Preakness" the only one who was going to enter a horse JUST to do that and NOT run it was Zayat. Allen has a partner who is a man of good character and who jerked him up short when he got caught up in the euphoria of it all, Chip wasn't involved in hatching the plan. If you can't tell that by the way he's spoken since then, go ask him.

Rumors abound around the race track and the turf paparazzi and tabloid writers perpetuate it. Just like what they said about Ms.Whitney and Wayne, THAT was a crock of well aged --------- but it made a good story.

NONE of these horses belong to you, NONE of this money is coming out of your pocket. NONE of this is ANY of your business. If you want to call names? Don't call the horses names, call the people names but why not just grow up and focus on the subject at hand.

You denigrate Rachel by demeaning the other horses, DON'T you get that?

personally, I would love to just see Rachel & Zenyatta go to the post parade together. With RA's cool poise looking over the crowd and Zenyatta's puttin' on her game face strut, wonder what kind of head games they'd be doing to each other?

Cowgirl Sally...I too hope RA stays healthy and in good form next year but she won't win the Triple Crown. Hello? It is for 3 year olds.

    As Shawn P. just stated, Before some here start making comments about the tracked being "Souped up" for "Quality Road's" amazing performance yesterday, Do yourself a favor, Watch ALL the races run yesterday, The track was not "souped up", I don't understand why some people can't take an amazing run at face value!

       True Racing fans and Horsemen respect what the little gelding has done for this great sport.  When this sport is falling apart at the seams, "Mine that Bird" brought back fans that are not regulars, The sport needs more feel good stories like him.  Some of you negative people just don't get it, This sport is dying a slow death, and long as you keep showing your utter disrespect for some horses, rather then embracing them, Then it will continue to fall through the cracks!  

    I will say it again, and again, until the cows come home,  If this is your definition of a "Fluke", Then you seriously need to get your head examined, "Mine that Bird" will be around for a long time, It will be funny that when his career is done, let's see if you people that call him a "Fluke" have the audacity to come back here and still call him that, Total lack of class...

"Mine that Bird":

12 Starts: 5 - 2 - 2, $2,196,581

Atthebarn2...I am always so pleased to see a post from you. And then I see that Dray has been a bleep to you and figure I won't see you again for awhile. :(  I wanted to let you know I went to Hollywood Park and asked several people for a tour(of the public and private areas) and while everyone was very nice they were not very helpful. They kept suggesting that I could do that at Santa Anita, lol. I didn't get any goggles either, the "people" aren't as accessible as at Del Mar. I hope you are doing well.

The grading of races began as a Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Associaton (TOBA) project back in 1973, mostly at the request of European racing authorities anxious that North America have a method, similar to their system implemented in 1972, for identifying the highest quality racing events. The Blood-Horse published the first list of North American Graded Stakes in January, 1974, a total of 330 in all. This list was recognized by the major breeding and bloodstock organizations and authorities around the world. The Daily Racing Form adopted Graded Stakes lists in 1978 for the first time. In it's current form, the graded stakes system in North America is not uniform because in 1998, Canadian authorities received sanctioned authority to grade Canadian races independently, and the TOBA became the American Graded Stakes Committee.

Just wanted to post this information in response to Draynay's constant nonsense that "Secretariat never won a grade I race on dirt after th triple crown."  Not even sure that any races were officially accepted as graded until 1974.  Plus, as noted by many, Secretariat won the Arlington Invitational and Marlboro Cup on dirt after the TC, the latter being one of the best fields of older horses assembled ever in a dirt race.

Sorry to get off track.

I agree with ABZ.  I don't think Rachel will run in the Travers.  It's unfortunate, but I don't think they will.  I think they'll go to the Personal Ensign against older fillies and mares.

Shawn- I saw the race and I stand by my statement. It's not trash talking it's expressing my opinion. Do you know the difference? By the way NYRA pretty much seals the track every night and opens it up b4 training. Have you been to Saratoga this year? Have you ever been there? It rained there all day Friday and Saturday.

Dray,

Secretariat may not have won 8 stakes in a row, but he won the three most important 3yo stakes in a row.  And he still has the KY Derby and Belmont stakes records.

he also beat older males.  on dirt and turf.

I agree with you about Ruffian though.  I think RA is better.  She may not be establishing a record every time she runs, but how many of Ruffian's records still stand?  I would guess that she is running faster times than Ruffian did, but because they are not records people can hold on that stat.

Wow... I just spoke with Todd Pletchers subconcious mind and he has a deviant plan.  He aims to win the Travers, Jockey Gold Cup, and Breeders Cup Classic and steal HOY away from Rachel.  Add to that wins by Quality Road in the Fountain of Youth, Florida Derby and Amsterdam and he may have a point.  Should Quality Road win the Travers and Jockey Gold he would force Jacksons hand. Winning the Woodward, Beldame and Clark may be enough but it will be close.

That Pletcher, he's always thinking.  Who really cares about Zenyatta?  The real race is between Quality Road and Rachel. You don't see Zenyatta getting close to any track records this year, she can't even break a 148.

Funny Cide retired with 11 victories from 38 starts, with six seconds and eight thirds, for earnings of $3,529,412. In addition to his victories in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, he captured the Jockey Club Gold Cup (gr. I) and Excelsior Breeders’ Cup Handicap (gr. III) and placed in the grade I Belmont Stakes, Suburban Handicap, Haskell Invitational, Donn Handicap, and Wood Memorial, and grade II Massachusetts Handicap, Louisiana Derby, Saratoga Breeders’ Cup, and New Orleans Handicap.

I think Kelli's post says what I feel too - how lucky we are to be alive when the special and unique gift that is Rachel is out performing her magic! I felt like that when Ruffian was racing and she's remained the standard against which everything else has been measured (by me, at least.). I am most blessed. I have seen two of the brightest and best jewels in racing's crown. If someone's going to justify taking HOY honors from her, he or she had better put in an appearance as I haven't seen anyone even close yet! Mine That Bird is a good horse; he was a 2-year old champion in Canada and he's no slouch as a 3-year old - but he peaked at the right time and earned himself a place in Derby history. He may indeed win again this year; no surprise if he does. But he's not a superstar. He's a game, gutsy horse who, if he gets his one run, can take down champions. And along the way, he's brought joy and excitement to the people who care for him day by day. There are a lot worse things a horse could do for the people who love him.

Tiznowbaby,

    Lol, i thought the same thing when i saw him. I was like shoot, he got big. He is broader across the chest now i think. Your right about the pony comparison. When he came around that turn i was geeze here comes the monster.

GunBow

I am not trying to belittle Rachel when I say that she hasn't hit the 120 Beyer plateau.  With the exception of Surfside, those fillies and mares you listed with high (yet sub 120 Beyers) ran those races against fillies and mares.

Two of Rachel's last three races have been against the top 3 y-o colts/geldings running at the time and in important races.  With the ease in which she won the Haskell and the time, why shouldn't she be eligible for a plus 120 Beyer, especially seeing that she is still a 3 y-o?

I believe the class-quality has something to do with it.  I have never been that high on Summer Bird simply because when you put it into perspective, he has still only won two races.  (Yes one of them was the Belmont but some less than stellar horses have won it this decade).  And I have never been high on Munnings at a distance.  I still think that Rachel is not running against TOP CLASS competition, at least not compared to some of the better horses of the past.  However, this isn't her fault.

I know what Beyers are based on.....I've got all Andy Beyer's books.  A 120 Plus Beyer says super....I remember your BLOG stating Secretariat's high Beyer's.  Rachel's don't compare to his and yet some people are saying that she is better than Secretariat or will be by the conclusion of the 2009 racing calendar.

Also, The 6.5-F distance at Saratoga might be one of the least competed distances at the track, but that shouldn’t diminish what Quality Road accomplished yesterday.

• In looking at the three-year best time at all major race tracks only Santa Anita…1:13…Hollywood…1:13.1 ran the distance faster.

• To make the time even more legit, the 6-F time of 1:07.1 was the fastest time at the distance at all major tracks during the past three years span with the exception of Santa Anita which had a 1:06.2 clocking.

GunBow

I forgot to say that I enjoy you posts.  You’re a true (130 Beyer) among bloggers.  You are always so informative and yet so unbiased….a true student of the game without a bad word for anyone or any horse.  Keep on blogging.

Cowgirl Sally,

The triple crown races are for 3 year olds. Rachel will be 4 next year.

Gobin:

I predict that Rachel will NOT race in the Travers, but will be entered in the Woodward instead. I'm almost sure of this.

And if Quality Road is healthy, he will win the Travers...perhaps quite easily. He's that good. You don't break track records at two different tracks, at a distance (1 1/8 mile) and sprint (6 1/2 furlongs) without being a monster.

I can not remember any horse breaking track records in consecutive races in my lifetime...or any time. He's also a monster in sheer size...at over 17 hands, he towers over the competition. The only thing that can stop him is the return of the quarter cracks. He's a freak.

Now I'm not saying he'd beat the great Rachel. But I believe he's the only horse in the country who is fast enough to run with her. And MAYBE beat her. But you may have to wait till next  year to see them meet. I don't see Rachel running more than 2 more races this year. The Woodward and something at Belmont...more than likely the $600,000 Beldame 10/3. We'll see.  

WHY is Mine that bird WEARing FRONT WRAPS.HE SHOULD HAVE WON BY DAYLIGHT

  GEORGE WASHINGTON!!!!!!

Here is what I think would have happened had Jess Jackson not purchased Rachel:

After her blowout in the Oaks, she would have run in the Acorn.  Her win would have been about the biggest blowout that is possible at the 1-mile distance.  Yes, I know Gabby's Golden Gal ran a great race that day, but with RA in the field, she probably would not have been entered.

Possibly then, RA would have run in the Mother Goose as did happen.  I believe at that point, trainer Wiggins would have successfully prevailed upon the owner to try males, or at least older females and then males.  The reasons to do so would have appeared rather overwhelming at that point.

Rachel then would have been entered in a Breeders' Cup race (which race doesn't matter; she could probably win any of them), where more fans could see her, and she could receive the media coverage, purse money and added status and glory that she deserves.

I am not one of those people who believes Rachel will be injured as soon as she steps foot on a synthetic track.  She's already proved she won't be.  Every synthetic track is different?  So is every dirt track; just go back and read the comments to that effect on this or any blog.  To conclude, I am also not one of those people who sees Mr. Jackson as the savior of racing.  

Forgot to add, yet another thing I don't believe is that Rachel will run next year.  I believe the intention may be there at this point but it just won't happen.

Pam S... Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Chris and Steve from St. Louis thank you for your comments. Much appreciated. You are right, Rachel is not Secretariat yet and will have to run the equivalent of his Belmont before I go there.

Draynay, I loved Big Brown and still do. You weren't alone and I stated it every time I could. He had one of the greatest Kentucky  Derby races in history. One for the ages in my opinion.

I also agree with you that Rachel may not run in the Travers, but I wish she would. Probably Kensei will run instead. I also agree that QR will give Rachel a run for her money if they ever meet up but will probably not beat her at any distance. She won't win by 6 lengths however. He is a very, very good horse. Zenyatta wouldn't be any 6 lengths back either. But again, I think Rachel would win a this point in time.

I like Chip Woolley and I think he thought MTB could handle the extra weight. But clearly it was more than he could handle. Probably should have picked a different race. So we continue to live and learn. Still absolutely love that little gelding and hope to see him run some more.

I don't think we should criticize the owners or trainers at this point. These horses wouldn't even be running if it weren't for them. They have every right to make their own decisions about the future of their horses. I believe they have their best interests at heart. If Jackson doesn't want to run on synthetics that is his right. If the Moss's don't want to got east that is their right.

GunBow love your posts. Yes, yes, and yes. In fact, this is just a great blog. A bunch of horse smart people here. Also a big thank you to Jason for great topics and discussions. That is where it all starts.

IT too hot to run close to the track record in CAL,but their are a few fast horses out there.

RAIL TRIP and others who can ran 6.5F in under 1.13.60

Dave,

    Let me ask you a "Hypothetical" question, Let's pretend for a second that you owned "Mine that Bird", As being owner, Would you consider this record from the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont, and the West Virginia Derby to be a succesful campaign?

1st. Kentucky Derby, $1,417,200 Earning's

2nd. Preakness, $220,000 Earning's

3rd. Belmont, $110,000 Earning's

3rd. West Virginia Derby, $ 75,000 Earning's

$ 1,822,200 Earning's in four races

    If you base a horse as a success by only judging him on races he only wins in, Well, You wouldn't last a second as a Horse owner.  It is based on your ROI, I would say "Mine that Bird" as been an incredible investment, If I were to go by numbers alone.  I am not generally one that puts earning's as a way to judge a horse, I respect "All" horses that go out on the track, Regardless, If it is a $5000 claiming race or a Stakes race, They are all Champions in my eyes, But, If you look at those numbers, Then "Mine that Bird" is pretty damn impressive...

LAZMANNICK, speaking of good bloggers and posts full of useful information, I enjoy your postings quite a bit.

Wow, this is a fiesty blog!  Seems like there is a ton of passion about the latest "stars" of the racing world, whether they are shooting stars like Rachel or allegedly falling stars like MTB.  I guess it's a good thing that the sport actually gained some of the national attention it has.  There's still alot to be said for making the cover of Sports Illustrated (hoping to see Rachel's face in my mailbox this week!)  

But something is troubling me and I see it in blogs and postings all over the internet.  Why is it that "we" (I say "we" but I don't mean ME!) are so quick to want to tear down someone's accomplishments, seek out the negative, clamor for sordid details and wish ill-will on others?   You can find this everywhere from the President's attempt to reform healthcare to Michael Jackson's death.  So many people have negative things to say and almost seem to gloat when someone else suffers a misfortune.

So why is there so much negativity in our sport?   Can we not enjoy Rachel's amazing feats and the joy she has brought to us? The thrill of it all?   WHEN her race career is over -- THEN let's measure her against the retired and deceased greats of the past. For now, let us look forward to where she'll next run, hope that she wins and comes back safe & sound, and follow her career as a mother.  I loved Ruffian (and still do) as much as every die-hard fan with a heart in their body.  I never thought I would see another to match her... and NOT because of her race record-- because there were quite a few outstanding fillies whose records surpass Ruffian's, those who soundly beat colts, who carried great weights and ran great distances.  Perhaps because of the legend of Ruffian, we don't see her as a lesser-horse.  She will remain "perfect" to us and that's partly because she was a larger than life filly so won in such dramatic ways.  Dying young and beautiful has a way of making one live forever.

I, for one, am pleased that Rachel is creeping close to this level of greatness.  I happy that there will be another "one for the ages."  This in no way will knock Ruffian off her perch.  But in my world, there is certainly room for Rachel to take her place among the greatest to set foot on the track.

We are the generation who, every year, is hoping for the next Triple Crown winner, despite all the years of coming up short.  Yet we continue to hope.  So why can't we embrace this fantastic filly for what she is NOW.... and let her career take her where it will.  Afterwards, we can decide how she compares to Secretariat and all the others.    I think she's worthy of HOTY -- even if she were to meet Zenyatta and (gasp) lose to her.  What this filly has done over the past couple of months is nothing short of amazing and it should be applauded and embraced as such.  

A thumbnail sketch of what she's done appears in Steve Haskin's column today.  Worth a read.

And for all those bashing the noble & hard-trying Mine That Bird...give him a break.  A horse that "doesn't try" would never leave the starting gate... once that bell goes off and the gate opens, they're running with one goal in mind -- to win.   This fellow tried in all the races I watched him run.  Did he get amazing luck in the KY Derby? Did the lousy condition of the track hinder others but help him?  Most probably.  But in this game, a win is a win and he will always be known as the 2009 KY Derby winner.  Better to have horses like him around than to have them slinking off to the breeding shed at the first whiff of too much competition showing up.  It's amazing how many previously minor set-backs are now termed as 'career threatening.'  I'm all about keeping them safe and healthy but there have been way too many 'big name' horses who don't even complete a three year old campaign.

Glad to see Quality Road back in action and winning so impressively.  Let's hope some of the other boys from the springtime make an appearance this summer.

Didn't mean to ramble on... just had a few more thoughts to add.

Rechelle, I didn't mean to come off with an anti-Rachel bent, I just want to examine all angles instead of just going completely ga-ga over her.  For example, we don't know yet if she has distance limitations.  I would like to see her step out of her 9f comfort zone as well as go up against horses that can challenge her, like Stardom Bound, Zenyatta, and Quality Road.  If she does that successfully than she will earn my unabashed praise.  But the one thing about her that really impresses me is her ability to rate coupled with her tactical speed, true speed that keeps on going (as D.W.Lukas put it).  At this point in Rachel's career it is going to be next to impossible to hook her with a rabbit.  It makes me question Calvin Borel having Rachel duel with Big Drama on the lead in the Preakness, when now it is now clear that was unnecessary.  I believe if she rated behind Big Drama that day her victory would have been much more impressive.

A couple people have stated something that I also noticed.  Rachel looked completely spent after the Haskell.  Take a look at her eyes afterwards in the BH Haskell photo slideshow .  I hope they are very careful with her and realize that she makes it look easy, but really she is giving every ounce of her being that she can muster.  She is a scary racing machine that will lay down her very life if asked, no doubt about it.  Makes me wonder what her personality is like, and if she is enjoying the other aspects of her life.  Zenyatta seems to be more multi-dimensional personality wise.  

That 103 for Quality Road is too low.  QR does have the same wonderful tactical speed as Rachel, with the added

component of extra size, which means that (like Zenyatta) he needs to be on the outside well clear of horses in his path.  I'm thrilled to have one of this year's promising group of 3yo colts back in action.  Win Willy has been working regularly, and hope to see him return successfully.  

2:24

Re: Graded races.

I've tried to explain the graded procedure to our little friend several times, especially noting the Marlboro Inv. and other races like the Hopeful and Champaigne and the Laurel Futurity, etc., etc., races that were not G-1 or even graded back then, but are G-1 now or would be.  Good luck.  When someone doesn't want to get it or chooses not to get it, it's usually because they don't want to face the truth.  He reminds me of one of those athletes who gets a college degree, but is in fact illiterate.  Good luck.....

RACHEL ALEXANDRA .....GABBYS GOLDEN GIRL....1/2 SISTERS.....

       W O W

I fully expect Greatchel Alexandra (thanks Dan!) to run next year.  He ran his top colt, Curlin at four and Curlin is worth a lot more potential breeding dollars than Rachel.  Something could always happen to derail it, but we should have the pleasure of watching her through next year's Breeder's Cup.

Greg J why do you think MTB is so good he has won one big race in his career and couldnt even beat 5 horses in the West Virginia Derby. Get it through your head the horse is just average! Maybe Chip should look at the forcast before entering his horse in the big races! lol!

Dray your so right QR and RA are the only two superstars but QR needs another race if they plan to meet. Plus alot of people really dont know who QR is yet!  MTB fans need to go away because that horse should be running at Canterbury!

DAVE

You act as if MTB career is already over. If he remains healthy he has plenty of time to win races. You,like your bro Draynay ignore the fact he's finished in the money all summer. If you were a true fan instead of a so called one you would give the horse his due instead of slamming him at every turn. Individuals like yourself and Dray are a dime a dozen. Oh,did I strike a nerve?

Fergawdsakes! Secretariat DID win the equlivalent of Grade 1's on dirt after the Belmont: the Marlboro Cup especially (now a Grade 1 as whatever it's called -- I can't remember).

And I think that bringing up the Marlboro Cup right now is really apropos.

As I remember it, wasn't that race invented especially in order to deal with the kind of arguments we are having here: Secretariat vs. Riva Ridge vs. all the others - to get them together to RUN and see who is best?

Too bad we can't have a new Marlboro Cup for RA and Z and QR and Einstein et al.

SHAWN P

Show me when Haskin"called me out"

Haskin called Draynay out a couple weeks ago big time. Get your facts straight!

RECHELLE

Speaking of class,I recall months ago when you slammed PP on another blog. I wrote a response for that. Let me tell you something,MTB's connections weren't then or now afraid of RA. Obviously you are another in a long line that shows little respect and less class for MTB.

One more thing, does Rachel have distance limitations?  Gee, let me think about that.  ALL horses have distant limitations but didn't her winning the Preakness on 2 weeks rest from the impossible 13 post and going wire to wire answer those questions ?  And if you had this amazing horse why would you put her out there as a 3 year old at 1 1/4 when you know she is still growing and has all next year to prove her distance limits.

When is it going to be enough?  Mr. Jackson she is 3 years old.  Keep her at 1 1/8th there are plenty of important races that will suit her.  When she is 4 then you can show everyone how far she can run.  Until then know this there will always be those lame people that say she hasn't done enough no matter what she does. Funny they don't require the same from Zenyatta and all she does is pick on the same horses over and over again.

I am with Southfilly. Very tired of the negativity. We should be thankful that we can watch her race, and we should all enjoy it while we can; however, I do believe that she will be back next year as well, and maybe even better than this year.

LAZMANNICK

You and I share many of the same views regarding someone on this blog. I enjoy reading your posts.

Cowgirl Sally,

Anybody who declares forcefully that RA will win the Triple Crown next year does not know an awful lot about horseracing and should be forgiven for the ugly, ignorant comments regarding Zenyatta. Peace! :)

Tenth race on Monday at Saratoga  6f for 20k Maiden claimers went 21.94  44.82   57.19  109.72 Most of those horses are probably worth 5k.

Rachel will come off as the greatest 3 year old filly in modern day history.?  What.? Is everyone nuts..?? She passes on the 1 1/2 mile test of champions (Belmont Stakes)because her owner was afraid she'd lose,  runs against 2 fillies in the pathetic Mothergoose, beats an overmatched field of second rate 3 year old colts and she's considered the greatest filly in modern day history. Can she win beyond 1 1/8 miles.?????? because she was all out to hold on in the Preakness,  we know that because her owner was terrified she would lose going another 1/8 of a mile longer,  but this is a great champion,  right..????  My God,  this sport really has gone downhill,  not to mention the sports writers who are completely clueless as to what a great racehorse is.  I would have liked to see her run in the Belmont Stakes and since her owners feel she wasn't good enough to win,  I don't feel she's even good enough for HOY because of the obvious ducking out of the Belmont for fear of losing.  That's a HOY champion TODAY..? No wonder I don't enjoy this sport anymore.

She could never do the things that Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Lady's Secret, Two Lea, Go for Wand, Landaluce, Azeri, Riboletta, Etc.......All have accomplished. It's called facing actual competition at various distances,  not 1 1/8 miles in every race. This has gotten to be a ridiculous sport,  fake too.!

To be fair, the overwhelming majority of the comments on this blog are POSITIVE. It is just that the NEGATIVE ones are so forceful that they appear to carry more weight. Let's just keep in mind that HOT AIR is still just AIR and doesn't weigh much!  

Now Rachel HAS TO run beyond 1 1/8 for greatness ? Lol...WHATEVER ! She already ran 1 3/16 in the Preakness on 2 weeks rest from the impossible 13 post and that is not enough ?...see what did I tell you....(yawn) LAME !

Rachel has won this year at 1 mile, 1 1/16th, 1 1/8th and 1 3/16ths

4 different distances Whatever... get your facts straight. Geez.

I started following Rachel Alexandra closely last Fall and I have watched live her past nine races.  By the way, in her last loss she was given a horrible ride by her former rider and it has been smooth sailing since Calvin took over.  In that time she has become one of my all-time favorite horses.  Only Spectacular Bid probably could rival her in my heart.  Having said that, as a writer, I need to always remain as objective I possibly can.  

Comparing horses who have never raced or horses from different eras is both fun and problematic.  While there is numerous criteria that go into such a comparison, such as record, quality of competition, accomplishments, versatility, longevity, etc...  The overriding criteria for me is, if they raced each other who do I think would honestly win?  Using this 'eyeball test' today, I feel that Rachel Aexandra may be the best horse I have seen since Spectacular Bid retired in 1980.  I have great respect for the powerful mare Zenyatta and I agree with many that the lightly raced Quality Road is the real deal, but if they raced...I see Rachel beating both of them.  As big a fan of Rachel as I am, I am not ready to honestly think that she would come out on top against the greatest horses of the 70's using my 'eyeball test'.  My top three of that great decade in American racing are 1) Secretariat, 2) Spectacular Bid and 3) Seattle Slew.  Rachel is not there yet, but hey, being the best horse in the past 30 years is not too shabby!

Mike M, we're here right now. Have been since opening day.

If the track crew seals it every night why did they make specific mention of it last Friday?"July 31,2009 Times Union: NYRA staff sealed it last night so it was less waterlogged than it might otherwise be."

They'll seal it sometimes if expecting a big rain. It was sealed on Saturday(see above) it was rainy but it wasn't raining SHEETS of rain like last year and for a brief time on opening day.  They also added the drainage and that helped things. If it was 'souped' up why did the other horses in the race finish so far back from QR? A sprint with a horse 2 1/4 behind is huge, compare it to a distance race. The show horse was I believe 6 1/4 lengths behind. Face it, this is a super nice colt and do you KNOW what they did to the track at Gulfstream? I understand someone who used to post on here, had a relative who was a track super, any input?

Dray is now talking to Todd Pletcher through mental telepathy? (the mental part I can believe of Dray)

LOL, I'll tell Todd, although I'm sure it's just Dray hearing voices.

Mike Relva

2:24

OTHER INTELLEGENT BLOGGERS:

We should start a club and call it ....THE I GET IT CLUB.

All bloggers who don't get it or don't want to get it or chose to IGNORE THE FACTS won't be allowed to join.

It ain't good being niave!,  

       Your screen name shows me all I need to know, I think you should take my clue and change your name to my suggestion...

       Mine that Bird was the 2008 Canadian champion 2-year-old male, Winning  the Silver Deputy, Swynford, and Grey (Can-III) Stakes.  Please, before you put down a horse you obviously know nothing about, Do your homework...

LAZMANNICK,

     Sounds like a great Idea!, I know a few that would be left at the door, lol...

barb, dark day so we're coolin or chillin or whatever the kids say.

Too bad they didn't want to be cooperative. Of course I haven't been to the California circuit much in the last several years. Sounds like a similar mentality as to what we're hearing from certain folks here. Too big for their britches.

Saratoga has tours to the backside and so do a lot of tracks. I kinda think those tours keep people on their toes.

Just the other day I say jocks autographing goggles for some little girls, got any stand in kids around?

As far as the village idiot? He's really a laughingstock to anyone who reads the garbage he writes. If anyone I know reads any of it (that isn't much at all) they all say the same thing "what an idiot".

A couple of my young friends tell me he writes on a politcal board. I would think he'd need to keep everyone informed with all the changes that are going on. Bigger fish to fry than insulting an innocent creature, who last time I heard couldn't read and whose connections could care less.

To those who mentioned it, the track wasn't souped up yesterday.

The other races were all between 1 and 8 seconds off the track records.

The other stakes race of the day was on the yielding turf so no comparison and the minor stakes race on the dirt was well over a second off the record.

They ratcheted it down a bit when that 25,000 claimer ran lights out and nearly broke the track record on Thursday.

ABZ

I get your point about Rachel’s greatness and I respect it.  However, whenever somebody makes a statement like that (including at times me), I wonder if we have really thought it through or if we’re stuck in the moment.

I stated earlier, that if we took the top 11 3 y-o fillies of all time and put Rachel in the race, and if the race was at a classic distance, how would Rachel do?  You can do the same thing for 3 y-o colts/geldings and again for 3 y-o and up in an open race.  Once again, how would she do?

Now if we change it to the last thirty years, using the same criteria how would she do?  There was a ton a great horses racing during that time and to think that Rachel is better than all of them is a very powerful statement.  Has she ever raced against a horse the quality of Personal Ensign or Lady’ Secret, etc. or Cigar or Skipaway or any of the other great ones?

The one thing she has been doing consistently lately is run ultra fast.  But the great equalizer is class.  Until she races against a true top class horse at a distance where no one has an advantage I will reserve my judgement regarding her greatness.  This is my opinion and if you take it and add a couple of dollars you can get on the subway.  Still, I don’t think it is off base.

WHY can't everyone just be greatful that Rachael didn't get hurt, none of them did.  Let's be happy that she won and stop this stupid bickering.  I used to like to come in here but all a lot of naysayers do is try to get a rise out of people that DO GET IT!

Scroll past the trolls.... :)

Mike Relva and Greg J.  HI there.  Who is running next weekend Greg?  I made some money this weekend.  Not a lot but I did make about 250 bucks and started out with 50.  I don't do the big wagers Greg.  Chicken.  LOL............  

Shawn- not saying he isn't a super nice colt just saying the track was fast. They do seal the track basically every night especially if there is a hint of rain in the forecast. I know from experience because i own horses that train and race on the NYRA circuit and it is a complaint of many trainers.

Call it what you will but 20K MDN CLAIMERS ran the 10th in 109 and change. 20k mdn claimers are lucky to win a 5k race. That is if they ever win another race at all.

DRAYNAY,

I suggest you take a pause from the blog and collect yourself ...suggesting that JJ hide super "Rachel" in 9 Furlong races, avoiding all three championship stakes such as the Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup and Breeder's Cup Classic at 10 furlongs?  Are you out of your mind?  Inspite of your idiosyncracies I thought you stood for genuine championship standard Thoroughbreds not "tactical/protected champs".  Believe me Rachel Alexandra does not need distance protection.  Maybe you are begininning to doubt whether she could square off successfully with Quality Road and Mine That Bird in the same race at 10 Furlongs.  I am an out and out Rachel fan as well as an out and out Quality Road fan and I want to see the REAL champion crowned HOTY my friend.  You should instead be lobbying for Rachel to show up at the Breeder's Cup instead of mounting ridiculous and unnecessary defensive arguments for Rachel.  Every honest race fan can see that this filly is a phenomenon.  Let us see her true champion's mettle against the best at the Classic distance, not just her pet trip otherwise you have no consistent position against the timidity of the Zenyatta connections.    

Whatever,

How sad for you that you are as unhappy as you are with horse racing.  You don't have anything postiive to say but talk about horses past that were great.  Rachel has faced what she could in her own division and even gone against males.  I'm not saying she is the greatest ever but she is special.  She didn't race in the Belmont and for some reason you think that a mile and a half is the only test of a true champion.  Did all those mares you mentioned race at a mile and a half?  I don't think so.  Most horses don't ever race that far and how do you know that her owner thought she would lose?  Did you speak to him?

I really feel sad for you that  you have to put a damper on everything that others are happy about.  I really mean that.

LAZMMANICK your opinions stink !  Now you want to trash the competition Rachel has faced ?  Thank goodness we have a clock to tell us just how good she is because the clock never lies.  Running as fast as she did in the slop is unheard of.  Who runs a 134 mile in the slop?  How many horses have done that and finished in 147 and 1 ?  Look up the history of racing and count the times any horse has run that kind a time in the slop. Geez.

LAZMANNICK you really should give up trying to educate someone who really doesn't want to learn, or more precisely has the inability to learn. I mean when someone could be so asinine to compare Big Brown to Secretariat how smart could that person really be. Perhaps you should try ignoring instead of trying to educate. It can work wonders.

My friend helsbelles like Steve and Calvin said Rachel's most impressive race was the Preakness. The fact that she drilled Big Drama on the lead while racing wide and then still had enough to keep MTB at bay says it all about how special she truly is. She did it the hard way and she may have in fact run 10 furlongs that day (lol). And don't forget she changed barns before the race and she was not even being considered for the Preakness by her previous connections, so her training was not geared towards the race. I know for a fact Steve had serious reservations about running because she was not really trained up properly to the Preakness with all the sales negotiations and vetting that had to be done. In fact her next race was supposed to be the Acorn 5 weeks away. Jackson wanted to run and that was that. After all he signed the check.

This horse will run all day long. You seem to be knowledgeable about your racing, I think you should know that when a horse has Rachel's high cruising speed and the ability to be placed where ever by her rider, makes her more dangerous as the distances get longer. This filly wastes no energy whatsoever. She doesn't get excited like most thoroughbreds, she doesn't pull on the bridle, and she has no wasted motion in her stride. Contrary to popular belief if they had one more lap to go in the Preakness MTB was still not getting by her. Calvin was also celebrating before the line. Watch the gallop out! If his momentum had carried him past her after the wire then you can say he would have gotten her if...

As usual we do agree on something and that is QR figure. I mean the track was really fast yesterday but 1:13 and change for 6.5 furlongs is ridiculous. As I always tell bettors don't take Beyers as gospel because they are really not that mathematically sound. And as I said before I was always high on QR but him beating Rachel might be a stretch because it's a matter of conditioning right now. If she goes in the Travers she wins. If she doesn't go in the Travers he does not automatically win. Not because he is not good, but because it may be too much, too soon. (We'll see)

QR also has a better chance of beating Rachel and 9 furlongs as opposed to 10 furlongs. And if some crazy Affirmed Seattle Slew speed duel happens they may both drop - but he goes first.

DRAYNAY,

All the great ones, ahead of which you wish to place Rachel Alexandra, won at least one race at 10/12 Furlongs as 3YOs (Secretariat, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid and Holy Bull).  To merit her place in that elite group without you having to advance disingeuous arguments on her behalf, Rachel needs one victory at 10 Furlongs THIS YEAR, otherwise your defence against detractors will always be inadequate.

Draynay, you sound so defensive.  "All horses have distance limitations?"  Now, did you really intend to say that?  QR proved yesterday that he can excel at both 6.5f as well as at 9f, and I believe he can get even longer than that.  Instead of doing battle all the time with Mr. Haskin, why don't you soak up the knowledge he presents in his columns and LEARN something.  All the greats of the past were just that because they could win at varying distances;  case in point Damascus who won at a total of 10 different distances from 6f to 2 miles.  You call MTB one-dimensional, well just maybe so is Rachel, until she proves otherwise.  And were you joking that they shouldn't put their growing filly out there to run 10f, but it's perfectly ok to run growing colts/geldings at 10f?  You can do better than that Dray.  Hey, I hear Vineyard is back in town... had anymore conversations with him?  

Anyone who knocks MTB as a midsummer 3 year-old would definitely be knocking John Henry and/or Forego, neither of which won even one classic race between the two of them, JH lost 9 in a row early in his career...and Forego took until his 4 year old career to really get going...

Mike R, it was way back over a year ago, things got heated amongst a bunch of people. What I DO like is your opinion of Dave the DN wannabe and DN!

That's why a comparison of Tim is so wrong.

Wow, those of you talking about rain here at Saratoga, they're under water back in Louisville, the track was flooded, etc. Thanks for the article Jason. Lots whose home base is there are worried.

DRAYNAY

Lazmmanick's opinions illustrate more class and knowledge than you could ever realize. Some of us don't trash horses,cause we are true fans and give credit for horses that might not win,but are out there trying. YOU NEVER CARED for the fact of so many trashing BB. Even If I hadn't been a big fan of BB I still would have backed you up as I did,cause it was unfair for BB to get slammed unjustly. MTB isn't in the class of BB,but still deserves no less. No matter what you say regarding MTB he's a DERBY WINNER,PERIOD! Nothing you and others' say will ever change that!

Ranagulzion, I was just thinking that very thing, RA really needs to win one at the "classic distance" of mile 1/4...well, she doesn't NEED to, but it is a question that should be answered...I mean no one disputes Lava Man was the greatest claim ever and a great racehorse except the asterisk *"he couldn't win outside California" (despite everything he did, he'll never satisfy some)...so RA is a great race horse except * "could she get the classic distance of 1 1/4...."

SHAWN P

Look,I agree w/ alot you write and I'm well aware that Tim knows more than I ever will,but all I'm saying is I've seen this before and for example a couple weeks back he spoke to someone that had been in the business well over forty yrs like he didn't have a clue. This individual called him out for it. That was the point I was trying to make.

Atthebarn2...I did meet a lovely little boy (maybe 10 or so?) at HP. We were standing together where the lead ponies wait for the horses(the outrider was telling us stories and letting us pet her horse) and when she left he and I talked about the jockeys as they rode by, and shouted encouragement, of course. He said he goes to the track alot and he doesn't have any goggles either. I told him to ask sometime. I'll try again at Breeders Cup.

ABZ...I agree with your comments re. the "eyeball" test. But isn't that basically the same as handicapping a future race? Neither RA or Z has faced a horse as good as the other so neither one has really showed what they can do, they've never had to. And they have both been brilliant. I think that's why we want them to meet so bad, not so much to see who's wins but to see them both at their utmost (at least that's what I want to see). You know? Let's see what they can REALLY do.

Laz...I always like your posts too. And I wish there was somewhere we could talk in real time. I like the blog but sometimes I wish the back and forth was quicker.

Mike M, Yes we do as well. But as one trainer on here just said and as several others said too, the track wasn't really playing that fast yesterday.

You want to see a track that should've been sealed(LOL, not really though)? Look at Churchill and the pics Jason provided. A friend sent a cell picture, a mess. Afraid the basement leaked but we're all good and the trophies are safe (ours, not sure about one of our friends who lives close by). But what's a few ruined amongst a thousand or so (him not us).

Ranagulzion you put forth an interesting argument so let me address your thoughts.  Placing any horse especially a 3 year old filly in a 1 1/4 race against males is a lot to ask. If I owned the horse I would wait until she is 4.  There is no hurry for her to do everything.  She is racing next year she doesn't have to take on every challenge there is this year.  You have to consider that horse racing is a business and Kensei has a very good chance of winning the Travers.  If he does his breeding could be worth as much as 20 million. Rachel has many more options and has already proven TWICE she is the best 3 year old.  If I were Jackson I would take on older males in the Woodward a race NO FILLY has ever won and then the Beldame to take on older fillies.  If Quality Road won the Travers and Breeders Cup I would take him on in the Clark at Churchill Downs, Zenyatta would be free to show up too. But there is no must race for Rachel this year at 1 1/4 its just not necessary to place that kind of demand on a 3 year old filly.  What is wrong with taking on all comers at 1 1/8th?  You have to do what is best for the horse and at this point of the year after everything she has done it makes no sense to expose her to the added distance until next year. You have to give Kensei a chance to win the Travers and the 4 weeks rest sets him up perfectly.  After a very fast race in the slop Rachel deserves the extra week the Woodward would give her.

Mike, think that was the other Tim. Fact he said after that he was going to change his handle.

The only one I can recall him cautioning was LDP.

Know him pretty well and he's been racing for 50+ years.

Boy, Blame did a great job in the Curlin Stakes...what a nice colt.

MonicaV...

Don't bother.  You are probably talking to a teenager.  Ruffian?  Who is that LOL!  :)

SouthFilly.........

GOOD POST!!!!!! :)

It aint easy being good!..

Mine That Bird is a hell of a lot better than average.  he hit the board on all three TC races.  He hit the board this weekend and his almost 2 million dollar worth is nothing to sneeze at.  Look what they paid for him.  My Lord what is wrong with people.  Why can't people just give credit where it is due.  RA is a wonderful filly as are many others.  This  venting on these horses is not healthy. Do you naysayers think that they horses care?  Heck no.  Just please everyone have some respect.  :)

Lazmannick,

Your comments are reasonable and appreciated.  I look forward to future races with Rachel and the best horses the world has to offer.  I offer my opinions as no more than that (my opinions).  I am neither a bandwagon jumper nor a racing newbie.  My opinions are born from a lifetime of following the most beautiful sport.  Remember, I do not yet rate her as highly as several I have seen in person 30+ years ago.  I mentioned my top 3 (Secretariat, Spectacular Bid and Seattle Slew).  I do believe in my assessment that I would not expect any horse foaled after 1976 (Bid) to beat her.

Would she beat Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Cigar, Holy Bull, Alysheba, Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Skip Away, Princess Rooney, Point Given, Invasor etc... every time?  Of course not, but right now she would be my absolute top pick.

Friday at noon?  I'm in!

I don't think there is any reason to expect that Rachel Alexandra will never run 10 furlongs in her career. It might not be this year, but I'm sure that she will.

Also, it's pretty amazing how different interpretations of Rachel after the Haskell can be. I was impressed that she barely seemed spent. She was hardly blowing and was relaxed and happy on the jog back. I couldn't believe how little she seemed to have used in the win. I'm not sure what those of you who say she was "exhausted" think they saw!

Jason,

I love the live blogs...but let's talk about something other than Rachel, the Travers or the BC. Frankly, we have overdosed on these subjects (at least for the time being). Let's give it a well deserved rest. Your other suggestions are very appealing and will bring other horses to the forefront. After all they deserve some attention also. Looking forward to Friday...

LAZMANNICK I get where you are coming from. I really do, but you have to be fair and say Personal Ensign, Lady Secret etc did not face a horse like Rachel either. What great horses did they beat? And I don't use that term GREAT lightly. Lady Secret is remembered more for her durability than her race record as impressive as it was. And Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 without beating a whole lot. Sure Winning Colors won the Derby, but she also lost a lot more races than she won if I remember correctly. She was not a world beater by any means. The point is: you beat who is in the gate with you and so far Rachel has one hell of a resume for a three year old filly. I can go further and say if you want to slam Rachel for not running in certain races, then you can also ask the question why didn't Personal Ensign go in the Classic or why didn't she seek out the very best males in 1988. In fact her campaigns were a lot lighter in terms of difficulty than Rachel's has been so far.

As for Cigar do you remember what was being said by the old timers during his 16 race winning streak? It is basically the same thing you are saying now. Who the hell is he beating? Again name any GREAT horse that he took down during that time. In fact Cigar was damn lucky that Holy Bull was injured in the Donn. I don't know why it is that when a talented horse comes along we all want them to go back in time and race against other horses. They did it with Citation, Secretariat and Slew too. I always remember what Muhammad Ali used to say when they questioned his competition. "My competition isn't bad, I just make them look that way. Judge these guys when they aren't against me and see how they look then. You can never look impressive when you fight me. " It's the same with great horses. Munnings, Gabby's Golden Gal, Summer Bird etc looked awful impressive when Rachel wasn't in the race. This has been one heck of a campaign either way you look at it. This filly has been bringing it all year.

Don't forget you homework: name the GREAT horses Personal Ensign, Lady Secret, Cigar beat.

da3hoss,

    Why does RA have to do all these things to be considered great, like run 1 1/4, but nobody gets on Zenyatta for not doing it. Why must she pummel a field of older males or colts at that distance. Zenyatta has not faced males nor has ever gone beyond a 1 1/8, yet i don't hear her supporters challenging her to go out and do these things to prove how great she is. Why is it that you all want RA to do these things, when she is only three, to prove her greatness, yet you don't sit there and critisise Zenyatta who is two years older than RA and has never race colts or gone 1 1/4, much less face colts at that distance. RA has done so much already and deserves the title as great. If some of you are willing to call Zenyatta great, you must be willing to call RA great, seeing as how she has done more and accomplished just as much at least.

All doubt removed from my mind. Rachel Alexandra - best since & just as good as Ruffian. WOW

The Downs was flooded, 6 inches of rain in less than an hour and a half. Also the UofL and the Health Science centers were flooded as was the Louisville Library (3 feet of water and lots of history). The streets look like rivers.

All the beautiful historic mansions and homes there. A lot of race trackers make their homes there at least on a semi permanent basis. Please keep all the residents of Louisville in your thoughts and prayers!

Thanks.

Ranagulzion wrote: "All the great ones, ahead of which you wish to place Rachel Alexandra, won at least one race at 10/12 Furlongs as 3YOs (Secretariat, Ruffian, Spectacular Bid and Holy Bull).  To merit her place in that elite group without you having to advance disingeuous arguments on her behalf, Rachel needs one victory at 10 Furlongs THIS YEAR, otherwise your defence against detractors will always be inadequate."

Again I understand where you are coming from, but why does Rachel have to win at 10 or 12 furlongs to prove she belongs among the very best. Let's use Ruffian's win in the CCA oaks as an example. It was a 12 furlong workout really. Here is who she beat: Let Me Linger, Equal Change, Gallant Trial, Sweet Old Girl, Funny Cat. I think Let Me Linger was the only graded stakes winner in that field. Ruffian was 1/20 that day. The race was 12 furlongs but she was not faced with any challenges whatsoever. Rachel's Preakness was a lot more of a challenge and a lot more impressive than the CCA Oaks that day. The worst horse in this year's Preakness would have beaten that CCA Oaks field. I hope you understand what I'm saying - Rachel's race was 2.5 furlongs shorter but it was also a lot more difficult. Distance does not make the race. (BTW Ruffian is still the best filly ever for me, but with Rachel's burgeoning resume she deserves to be mentioned in the same breath).

I don't know if you were around in 75 but the arguments being made against Rachel were being made against Ruffian. Some even sought to use her accident in the match race against her. The good thing is, opinions die, but the records will live on.

hey jason the info is in the article by Bob ehalt called "rachel dazzles the boys". in not making stuff up, plus you know your self that she not going to run.

Rachel Alexandra's sire Medaglia D'oro had no problem with a mile and 1/4 to a mile and 1/2 races.

Why would anyone think that Rachel Alexandra couldnt win at a mile an 1/4 just because she hasn't run that distance yet? And some of the same people think that Quality

Road can win at mile and 1/4 off of his 6 1/2 furlong win. He has never run a mile and a quarter either. Go figure.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see much sense in them entering Rachel in the Travers. She has already proven herself against this crop of three year old colts twice (with the exception of QR, and if she were to beat him, people would just argue, probably correctly, that he wasn't conditioned for the 1 1/4). With the 3YO colt race wide open, it makes more sense to give Kensei a chance. I'd send her to the Woodward, and let her add older males as a notch to her belt.

As for MTB, I tend to agree with those who say he is good rather than great, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove me wrong. Someone pointed out astutely that John Henry and Forego didn't develop into great horses until later in their careers. Remember he is a gelding. Noone watching the '73 Derby could have predicted the greatness that Forego would achieve later in life. MTB may never win another stakes race, or he may end up an immortal. I certainly appreciate the new fans he has brought to racing and seeing him give his all every time out.

Wow, right after I comment on what a great discussion it is Draynay, Dave and It Ain't Easy come in and provide an example of the opposite.  Honestly, I don't see how you can go through life with all that disrespect and hate.  It really stinks up what is otherwise a good discussion.  

Philly - I'm with you, there are so many appalling things going on in this world that I don't quite understand the necessity of some people to make it even worse.

Please people, some of us love all these horses and really don't appreciate derogatory, disrespectful commentary.  The name calling of horses is really pretty disgusting.  

For those who think Rachel can't beat Quality Road....Dream on!!! QR is a beautiful and extremely talented boy but beat Rachel ... no way. If she has her game, nobody can beat her. All Hail the Queen!!!

On a broader note,it is bad enough we have horses drugged, injured and euthanized in racing, horses being murdered and poisened, and way too many being sent to slaughter for me to be able to stomach some of the bashing that goes on here against these animals.  The above examples are too many instances of how horrible human beings can be - and disrespectful, hateful comments about these animals is just one step below these actions.  I really wish those of you who post such disrespect would see that you contribute to all of the above atrocities simply by being hateful. If you have to put an innocent animal down to make yourself feel superior you really have issues.

Zenyatta can sit out there in California and beat the same non-graded winning mares in a six horse field by five lengths forever or she can get on the plane and meet Rachel at a real track, in a real race against real competition and prove she is worthy of being a champion.  I mean, Rachel has won a triple crown race and beaten a two triple crown race winners.  Zenyatta has not come close to that. I think the owners of Zenyatta know she can't touch Rachel's running style.  In fact, no horse can (but I do like Quality Road!).

tbb - I do think Zenyatta is a good horse but agree as to the level of competition.  Rachel just keeps getting better and better - I thought she would win the Haskell and yet I was still amazed at her performance.  Zenyatta could close in on her, but I don't think she'd win, just my two cents. Rachel is simply an awesome animal.

Hey Gobin and ABZ:

Just my opinion.  Don't forget I also said that if you put two bucks with it you can get on the subway.

I don't want to give the impression that I am undermining Rachel or disrespecting her.  Actually I think she's fantastic.  I just think that some of the assessments of her 'beyond being great...greatness' might be a little premature and at times exaggerated.

That being said, Gobin you're right.  Usually when a good horse comes around I know I for one get defensive and always look for a way to defend the past.  The funny thing is, probably in ten to twenty years I will be defending these horses as well.

At least you guys didn’t say that my opinion stinks like you know who said.  Boy, it’s going to take me all night to get over that one.

Both of you (LOL)

Travers or Woodward?  An interesting question.  If she wins the Travers she will kill the 10 furlong criticism (unless of course someone is gaining on her late!).  If she wins the Woodward that will end the speculation on whether she can handle her elders (although maybe it won't be the right older males to please everyone).  It seems the only ones she can't please, may never be pleased.

Great points Caroline S, Anne M, and Gobin!

It's really too bad that the fella who made Rachel Alexandra, Hal Wiggins, is being left out in the cold and that Jackson and Asmussen will cop all the credit when RA wins HoY, when all they did was open a checkbook.

It certainly leaves a bad taste.

Cindi it is a great conversation but some people have a hard time with the facts and some think its a rule that you have to love every horse.  Sorry, but there are some I just don't care for.  I don't love every horse.  But I think the sport can handle me not liking every one of them. 5 years ago I went to Africa with 3 other couples.  I have known these people for more than 15 years.  When we got there 2 of my friends wanted to enjoy the sport of hunting and dragged me along.  The first day we went out they shot a giraffe.  I was completely against it but there were "sport hunters" from around the world there to shoot animals.  The next day (I did not go) they shot and killed a lion.  All of them considered this a sport and bragged about the hunt all day.  Now fast forward to today I have to listen to a few call me names and heartless simply because I choose to use the proper word in our language for a horse that wins a race by random luck or a FLUKE win. I am some evil man for calling a horse a fluke?  Then what are those people who hunt and kill animals or horseman who don't feed their horses properly nearly starving them to death.  What are they ?  Give me a break, I don't care for the Derby mud winner get over it. Stop taking everything so seriously.

Hey Jason

I was wondering what you thought the

odds of RA showing up in the travers would be

now that Quality Road appears to be back.

In my Mind she is already horse of the year, and doesn't really

have to prove anything else. She could however Loose some

status  by lossing to Quality road. Seriously, in my mind

he is the only one that can beat her.

I dont think she needs to run there, and its a high risk race for her.

What do you think about this?

Thanks

Dray: I am somewhat connected and if I can arrange it, would you go hunting with Dick Cheney?

I know what Pletcher is saying but I am not sure I believe Quality Road is going to the Travers.  And (Jason) do you really want Rachel to go to the Travers leaving out so many ?  A few good horses will not even show if Rachel shows up including Summer Bird and Kensei.  The winner of the Travers can meet Rachel later in the Clark.  Rachel has already beaten the Derby mud winner, Musketman, Munnings, Papa Clem, Summer Bird, Big Drama, Freisan Fire, and General Quarters. A lot of Stakes winners there now its time to move on to older horses.  There is not much left for her to conquer amongst the 3 year old division.  If Quality Road does decide to run and win the Travers they can meet up in the Clark.  However, I have two questions for you.  One, does ANYONE believe the Derby mud winner can beat Quality Road or Kensei ?  Wouldn't you think after losing 3 races in a row you would find an easier spot for the horse? Two, do you really think Pletcher is going to run Quality Road back in 3 weeks to go a 1 1/4 or is he going to scratch him late and move him on to the world stage and face Rachel at the Woodward where he can give his horse a break going 1 1/8th ?  Think about it...

LOL, well you better count yourself as one of those who loves every horse but the one that beats you and makes you look like a fool.

Just a SAMPLING of the horses you picked "Current Top 3

Stardom Bound

Vineyard Haven

Pioneer of the Nile

I list them on top because they have actually beaten top horses.

Mr. Fantasy in the top 5 ? I will take Imperial Council... lets see which one is running the first Saturday in May;-)

Draynay 17 Feb 2009 10:12 PM

pre-Derby" (by the way do you have a droopy left eye? :-)

"mg... let me first say Jason never bets me unless it is slanted in his favor. I give into him because I am taller and better looking. And Donna since you agree with Jason that OF deserves the top spot could you please explain to me and others how he gets that spot over Stardom Bound and Desert Party ? I can't believe anyone really believes OF is a better horse than Stardom Bound.

Draynay 18 Feb 2009 10:29 AM" You're also much more delusional and a much worse handicapper.

"1. Stardom Bound

2. Desert Party

3. Pioneer of the Nile

4. Vineyard Haven Still my choice to win the Derby loves it hard and fast and will see that at Churchill

5. Rachel Alexandra.

6. Old Fashioned

7. Imperial Council

8. Midshipman .

9. Chocolate Candy ran close to Pioneer of the Nile.

10. General Quarters

TouchStone I could not agree with you more Pioneer of the Nile has a lot of experience at two turns and his need for more distance is coming at a good time. I will be watching his workouts at Churchill.

Draynay 14 Feb 2009 1:50 PM"

I finally gave up, there were too many choices to keep copying, I was getting whiplash watching his choices fly by.

But most of all WHO could forget this:"How can he have competition when he is the greatest 3 year old ever... give some love to the Triple Crown winner and stop being a hater.

1. Big Brown

Big Brown wins by 12.

draynay 06 Jun 2008 1:05 AM"

Talk about flavor of the month. The greatest three year old EVER?

Replaced so soon by another, how fickle. Think you compared Secretariat unfavorably to BB also.

Wow, I can't keep up with you and all those voices in your head.

Jason, I think you're correct, she won't run in the Travers.

If those people the jester of the blog mentioned were writing on here and making similar proclamatioons we'd call them appropriate names as well.

The problem is, we GET what you think about MTB, you don't have to reiterate it and slam the poor wee beastie at every opportunity.

What does it matter what you call him? Not much to people in the game who see your sort all the time (yelling what bums we are, from the rail etc)and we consider the source.

But to people who are casual, new fans on here or those who just happpen by?

It's very disrespectful and potentially harmful to a game you proclaim to love.

People who love a game may disagree with certain situations, not like certain horses as well as others but the juvenile slamming of a horse is NOT THE SIGN OF SOMEONE WHO TRULY LOVES THE GAME.

Plenty on here have said they like one horse better than another didn't take one derogatory comment to get THEIR point across.

Me thinks you need to grow up a little, you're sure old enough to have some maturity by now.

Draynay

Still think MINE THAT BIRD WILL HAVE THE LAST HORSE LAUGH AT YOU!

C'mon Mine that Bird show him how good you are! I think Chip Woolley and the MTB team are lovely and good for horse racing!

MINE THAT BIRD's MUM!

ABZ,

Other than Colonel John being mentioned for the Woodward (and now that's in doubt since his blazing turf mile), what quality older horses are being pointed toward that race? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't heard much. In many ways I think it would be an easier spot for her because she's a monster at 1 1/8, and seriously, who will show up to challenge her.

IMO, she ran very hard in the Haskell. Calvin was getting into her deep into the stretch (unnecessarily, I thought). Those were not taps and they were many. She makes it look so easy, I think she fools everyone. If she bounces back nicely, I think the Woodward is a softer spot than the Travers for her.

Also, JJ seems very into the legacy of the horses he owns, and it's been many a year since a 3YO filly beat older males in a major dirt race.

I would like to see her in the Travers to see what she can do. Personally, were she to lose, it would not diminish her in my eyes. She's wonderful and has accomplished a great deal already.

CIGAR RULES OK!

I do like you STARDUSTY ROSE - a voice of reason.

How the hell does Jason cope with some of these bloggers!??

You must have a terrific sense of humour and just laugh at their ridiculous rantings!

Someone who is getting fed up of draynay and company knocking my beloved horses who I much prefer to them!  Horses add nothing but beauty, grace and nobility to this world.  They have sacrificed themselves for us in war and sport!

LOL...Gee Shawn P where is your list from February 19th ?  Also, why dont you go back and find Haskin's Derby Dozen from the same month. Tell me who those horses are.

Funny, you don't seem to mention anywhere that in March my top two picks were Rachel Alexandra and Quality Road !

Seems months later THEY ARE the top two horses... man I am good.

Well if you throw enough **** at the wall some of it's bound to stick.

By that point in time you had thrown out so many names no one took you for anything more than the pretender and blowhard you are.

Jason just schooled you, hit your knuckles with a ruler, go sit in the corner with your Dunce cap on.

P.S. especially when people were amazed that you were so adamant as far back as Dec and Jan. So you're saying your choices the 17th,18th and 19th were different, wow, you really do have trouble making decisions and those voices you're hearing aren't Todd's.

Steve from St. Louis that was naughty.  

Draynay, when animals can shoot back, then I will say o.k. to hunting. Shooting a giraffe????? What kind of mindless cruelty is that, never mind the lion!? I would seriously consider getting some new friends. My husband, the fisherman, throws his fish back for goodness sakes.

You know Draynay, if they follow your road map maybe Quality Road would have a shot at HOTY. Probably not going to happen though. I agree Rachel won't be at the Travers. I wonder if QR and RA will ever meet up or it is going to be deja vu all over again a la Zenyatta.

Dray: I am somewhat connected and if I can arrange it, would you go hunting with Dick Cheney?

steve from st louis 04 Aug 2009 10:26 PM

ROFLMAO, Even though I like him and he's best friends with a good friend of mine, I'm sure one of us could also send Bob Knight as a backup.......

Sorry Jason, but I think you need to think a little more about what you are saying.  The blog you just wrote states KENSEI is a star rising. He just dominated tough 3 year old competition.  If you don't race him in the Travers which he will be favored where do you run him ?  He can only run in the Travers where Rachel can run in the Woodward or the Personal Ensign.  As an owner of both horses you have to do right by both of them and running Rachel in the Travers serves no purpose when it denies KENSEI his chance at a key G1 win.  It is not suddenly the obligation of Rachels to run around chasing Quality Road.  Even if she did beat him now many would say, "Well he just came off a long layoff." I still disagree with you and feel Quality Road will scratch and go to the Woodward.  He is not ready yet for Kensei or 1 1/4 but Pletcher is trying to sell it. Rachel can win the Woodward and then the Beldame taking on older females and older males and complete the greatest year by any 3 year old filly ever.  She doesn't need to touch 1 1/4 until next year.  She has already proven she can go beyond 1 1/8th.  Stop being one of those lame people that keeps drawing a new line in the sand after she leaps across the last one.

Gee Shawn P I am so sorry for giving you my top horses so early in the year.  Believe me I won't do it next year because people hold you to your favorite so I won't being giving my top 3 until the week of the Derby. Please forgive me for ranking Quality Road and Rachel 1 and 2 as late as March... man what was I thinking so close to Derby Day. Geez.

wow your going to say your favorite horse this year was quality road then your going to question his 30 year old track record breaking performance because hes with pletcher that doesn't add up. plus synthetic is slower then regular i mean come on student council won the pacific classic in 2:09.

Funny you didn't mention I said this in February Shawn P...hmmm.

LDP let me help you out.  In the Remsen Old Fashion ran painfully slow splits including a 1:14.18 and he faced very soft competition.  Please take a look at both of Vineyard Havens G1 wins and take a notice of the pressure he faced and the splits he posted including beating Desert Party by 10 when he came in second to last fading badly on a fast track chasing fast splits. What I have said about Old Fashioned is simple... do not get too excited until he faces some early speed and tougher competition.  None of the horses in the Remsen will be seen on Derby day except Old Fashioned. Secondly we are discussing DERBY horses and so far no one is wrong and so far I have my wagon attached to Vineyard Haven.  I will not decide on who I am putting my money on until I see the last two works of all the horses in the Derby.  If you remember last year I picked Big Brown to win and spent lots of time telling people why their choices would not win.  I tell you what I am thinking and why.  I am not out to trash your opinion I am out to tell you the strengths or weaknesses of your choice and why.  You are free to argue your point and somewhere along the way we all may learn because someone along the way picks up on something we didn't see.  I notice small things like how Vineyard was pressed the whole way into a 45 and change split in both of his G1 wins and he shook them off to win both races with ease.  He has faced upfront speed and been pressed and won.  When Old Fashioned does that I will be the first to take notice. Same thing for Mr. Fantasy, there are too many excited people already.  Let him face some upfront pressure and win and then I will get excited.  LDP you saw Vineyard get beat first race back off a long layoff training on a surface he didn't like running in conditions that were not ideal. I saw a 2 time G1 champion show early speed and shake off a little rust.  We will know in about 75 days if he is going to be the one to catch.  A race in February does not make or break him.  At this time last year War Pass and Pyro were king.

Draynay 14 Feb 2009 12:10 AM

Draynaynaynay,

The only fillies you watch are on reality tv.  Best horse in the land is QR and you know it.  If he would have made the Derby he would have shamed every other horse and Jerkens would not have lost him to Pletcher.  He set a track record at Gulfsteam with quarter cracks too boot.  To come back after that layoff and set a 30 year track record at Saratoga in his first race back in insane.  Granted RA beat the boys but she didn't run against the best 3yo colt out there.  Yet...

Okay Gobin…..Here goes…..

As you say…you race against who is in the gate.  My point is that the four horses I mentioned raced against far tougher horses than Rachel has at this point in her career.  And don’t tell me I’m knocking Rachel because I’m not.

Lady’s Secret a small 900 lb. filly with a lot of guts:

• HOY 1986 (one of ten fillies or mares ever to accomplish this feat).  Maybe Rachel might be the 11th.

• Champ mare 1986…#76 top 100.

• 11 G-1 wins

• 22 total takes wins from 6F to 1-1/4M (twice)

• BC Distaff win in 1986

• 1986 (8) G-1 wins in one year…never done up to that time.  Later tied by cigar in 1995

• 1986 won 10 of 15 starts all graded stakes races.

• 1986 Whitney defeating males.

Some notables she defeated and their G-1 wins:

• Fran’s Valentine….(4) G-1 wins

• Don’t Stop the Music….(2) G-1 wins

• North Sider….(3) G-1 wins

• Kamikaze Rick….(1) G-1 win

• She finished 2nd, Personal Flag (Male) finished 3rd 1986 Woodward…Personal Flag (2) G-1 wins

• Outstandingly….1984 BC Juv fill winner….(2) G-1 wins

• Endear….(2) G-1 wins

• Mom’s command….Triple Tiara winner….(5) G-1 wins

Without looking further, that’s (8) different winners of (21) different G-1 races.  I think that speaks a little of just how good a horse she was.

Personal Ensign

• Champion older filly and #48 on top 100.

• Broke leg at two and came back with screws inserted

• Tied for 8th all-time for horses undefeated with 13 wins

• (8) G-1 wins from 1-M to 1-1/4M (twice)

• 1988 BC Distaff

• 1988 Whitney defeating males (maybe not the Classic, but pretty close)

Some notables she defeated and their G-1 wins:

• Winning Colors….(3) G-1 wins including Kentucky Derby and SA Derby (Forty Niner who won 4 G-1 in field)

• Grecian Flight….(1) G-1 win

• Clabber Girl….(1) G-1 win

• Sham Say….(1) G-1 win

• Classic Crown….(2) G-1 wins

• Goodbye Halo….(7) G-1 wins

• One From Heaven….(2) G-1 Wins (Cdn.)

• Coup de Fusil….(3) G-1 wins

• Collins….(1) G-1 win

• Kings Swan (colt)….(1) G-1 Win

• Gulch (colt)….(7) G-1 wins incl. 1988 BC Sprint.

Without looking further, that’s 10 different winners of 29 different G-1 races.  I think that speaks a little of just how good a horse she was.

Skip Away

• Multi championship honors including 1998 HOY

• 12 G-1 wins

• 6 stakes wins at 1-1/4M

• 1997 BC Classic in 1:59

• Defeated several classic and Travers winners though he never won a triple crown race

Some notables he defeated and their G-1 wins:

• Formal Gold….(2) G-1 wins

• Sir Bear….(3) G-1 wins

• Behrens….(3) G-1 wins

• Gentleman….(3) N/A G-1 wins

• Wills Was….(2) G-1 wins…Travers & Whitney

• Deputy Commander….(2) G-1 wins Travers

• Editor’s Note….(2) G-1 wins….Belmont

• Louis Quatorze….(1) G-1 win….Preakness

• Cigar….(12) G-1 wins….BC Classic winner

Once again, without looking further, that’s (30) G-1 wins from (9) different horses.

Cigar

1995 & 1996 HOY

1996 Dubai World Cup

1995 BC Classic

The best horses he defeated were Concern the 1994 BC Classic winner and winner of 2 G-1’s, Devil His Due a winner of 4 G-1’s and Tinner’s Way a winner of 3 G-1’s.  However he defeated a large number of winners of 1 and 2 G-1 races.  As you say, you race against who’s in the gate.  Cigar raced against the best of his generation and defeated them all until he ran out of gas.  He also lost precious time early in his career because he was considered to be a grass horse.  It wasn’t until he was switched to dirt that he started showing his dominance.

I always thought that Skip Away was better than Cigar.  He defeated Cigar in what I believe was their only meeting (1996 Jockey Club Gold Cup)  However, in the Bloodhorse top 100 thoroughbred rankings, Skip Away is rated 32nd and Cigar 18th.

Without trying to disparage Rachel, who has she really raced against, and consistently, that would compare to this at this point in her career.  You say that Personal Ensign didn’t seek out the very best males in 1988…what about the Whitney?  And she raced after breaking her leg at two.

As for Cigar benefiting when Holy Bull missed the Don?  Take a look at the quality of horses that Holy Bull raced against and tell me that they were better than what Cigar raced against.  I don’t think so.

Anyway (LOL)

I haven't read all the comments (417!!!) but I skimmed some of them.

Rachel Alexandra just looks better and better.  I can't wait to see what she does next!  (Run in the Travers, I hope!)

I'm still a big fan of Mine that Bird.  Yeah, he's one dimensional, but when he fires, he's spectacular, and I love his heart.  I'm not saying he's the greatest, I'm just saying I love to watch him run!  (I do think that if he should change jockeys again, watching the video of the Belmont and the WV Derby should be required of the new rider.  Sheesh, if I knew he shouldn't move that early, why didn't Mike?)

And lastly - Draynay asked: "Did Secretariat ever win 8 stakes races in a row ?"

Yes.  Yes, he did.  The Sanford, the Hopeful, the Belmont Futurity, the Champagne, the Laurel Futurity, the Garden State, the Bay Shore, and the Gotham.  They were the last eight races of his ten race win streak. Thanks for asking.

Hey there's a giraffe in my backyeard.  Does anyone have connections?  I would sure like to get it out of there.

Draynay - I appreciate your response and have no problem with your not liking MTB.  It is the derogatory, disrespectful manner in which you speak.  It is not necessary and reflects poor character.  I like some horses better than others and for different reasons.  Opinions are one thing, disrespect and contempt (particularly for another living being that has done no harm to you) are something totally different. Those posts make the discussion worse, not better.

Ok, if all of you want RA so badly to race 1 1/4, that also includes me, then why not skip the Travers and go to the JCGC? The ppl who still doubt RA would still not be satisfied if she won the Travers, why, because she beat most of the same 3yr olds she's already beaten, and they will say her main comp, QR wasn't ready after only running a 6 1/2 furlong race in four months. The JCGC should be an ideal place for the match because it would allow for the 10 furlong test, and if QR won the Travers it would provide on heck of a story line, Surper Filly against Super Freak. Not a very good title i know, but you all get the point. In the race you'll probably get some decent older horses and probably some of the other 3yr olds, who have now had even more time to grow and mature before running against her again. This to me would be better than a win in the Travers, providing that at least QR shows up.

So let me get this straight, The Liar says he will stop calling Mind That Bird "The Fluke" if he loses to the blog, The Liar does lose to the blog and does his 30 day sentence, yet still comes back with his tail between his legs and calls MTB "The Fluke?"  I don't know what to call a person with such values.  "The Liar" perhaps?

SouthFilly + Gobin:

I'm in near full agreement with your latest posts.

ABZ:

You beat me to the punch. Let's say Rachel goes in the Travers, wins the race (at 10 furlongs) over Qulaity Road, some would undoubtedly point to the fact that she needs to beat older horses to be considered "great". However, if she were to win the Woodward(over older MALES no less-something few 3 year old fillies have ever done in a grade 1 or grade 1 equivalent race) there would be those bemoaning the fact that she has yet to win at the "classic" 10 furlongs or defeat Quality Road(or Kensei, Charitable Man, or Warrior's Reward were one of them to win the Travers). Whichever of the two races she goes in, she will not please everybody.

And since when was the Preakness not a "classic" race run at a "classic" distance. Should that extra sixteenth of a mile be the barrier to greatness?

Whatever:

Whatever.

Jason:

Einstein is simply not in Rachel's league on dirt. His presence in the Woodward would mean very little. However, I do agree with the larger point you were making as it concerns the Woodward. Although the victory would be truly historic, Rachel would be  defeating no horse of any historic significance. While it is uncertain whether Quality Road is such a horse either, he at least has the potential to be one. With this said, Quality Road is facing a tough task in the Travers, stretching from 6.5 to 10 furlongs in less than 4 weeks, something I'm sure Rachel detractors would mention post facto were Rachel to beat him.

I'm really split when it comes to running Rachel in the Travers or Woodward. Of course, the first priority is keep her sound and happy. And while Quality Road certainly deserves respect, I in no way would accuse Jess Jackson or Asmussen of "fearing" him were they to choose the Woodward. Rachel has a huge conditioning edge over Quality Road, appears more tractable and ratable(she's relaxing PERFECTLY right now), and probably is a little more athletic/nimble, with a quicker turn of foot(Quality Road runs with sustained power). Whatever race they choose, a victory by Rachel would be historic.

Draynay,  

You single-handedly have taken on the entire list of bloggers with your opinions.  Frankly speaking, you should keep it up, since it’s honest, insightful, witty, and most of all, its down-right hilarious how you got everyone’s goat on this article blog.  Too funny, keep it up.  When I need another laugh I will check in to see who your beating up…

BMC

As it concerns Quality Road's 103 Beyer for the Amsterdam, it appears the Saratoga clock was "souped up". According to the clock at Saratoga, the final time for the Amsterdam was 1:13 and 2. However, the Daily Racing Form is officially going with a time of 1:14 and 3, at least in making their Beyer figures.  According to a DRF article, Randy Moss went back with a state of the art recording system and twice hand-timed the race as 1:14 and 3. Thus, the race received a 103 Beyer, a fig far below what the official Saratoga time of 1:13 and 2 would have earned(a 119 Beyer).

For their part, Saratoga and NYRA officials are sticking with the 1:13 and 2 original clocking. Todd Pletcher, Quality Road's trainer, was quoted as saying that the handicapping service he uses timed the race in 1:14 flat. That would translate to a Beyer of 111, similar to the figs Quality Road ran in the FOY and Florida Derby.  Like I wrote last night, a 110 would make sense to me.

I think JJ will run Rachel at four.  When was the last time an owner had two consecutive horses win two consecutive HOYs?

Having been at Mountaineer for the West Virginia Derby, I want to mention that I thought Mine That Bird was perahps a little too geared up before the race, much like he was on Belmont day. Having been at Churchill to see Mine That Bird in person, and having read the reports from Pimlico, Bird was basically unflappable before both the Derby and Preakness. If anything, the horse appeared almost too relaxed and mellow on those big race days. However, as was well documented, Bird was uncharacteristically nervous/ agitated/keen prior to the Belmont.

Well, when Bird first entered the Mountaineer walking ring for the WV Derby, he spooked and jumped backwards when he was greeted with applause and cheers. At that moment, I started thinking back to the differences in the horse before the Derby/Preakness and the Belmont. Bird didnt do anything else noticable after that, but he remained bouncing on his toes, his ears constantly propped, and definitely seemed to have somehwat of an edge to him. Normally such signals would be extremely positive if we were discussing most any other horse. However, compared to when Bird ran his best races, prior to which he was almost sleepy, his intensity prior to the WV Derby caused me to pause.

In no way am I making excuses for him, and I really don't know if my impressions mean anything. Yet, it is possible that he could have been a little too sharp coming off a 2 month layoff. Just something to think about.

Laz:

I've been stressing for a while that the 73' Marlboro Cup should be looked at as if it were a grade 1. Although the grading system was started in 73', the Marlboro Cup was ungraded because that was the first running in the race's history. As is normal, the Marlboro remained ungraded for one more year after that, and then was listed as a grade 1 in 1975.  It's also interesting that Dray continues to emphasize grade 1 wins ON DIRT after the Belmont Stakes, as if Secretariat's romp in the grade 1 Man O' War on turf was of no value.

I for one try to be careful placing Rachel in historical context, comparing her to other 3 year old fillies first, and then females. In my opinion, she has already had one of the top 10, and probably top 5 seasons ever by a 3 year old filly(only Beldame, Twilight Tear, Busher, and maybe Gallant Bloom, Ruffian, and Go For Wand can be ranked above her). I also feel it is not at all too early to rate her ALONGSIDE the top 15 or 20 females of all-time. I am not yet comfortable saying Rachel is BETTER than Ruffian(who was also a 2 year old champ), or Gallorette(who reached her peak as an older mare), or Lady's Secret(who reached her peak at age 4), among others. However, Rachel most certainly deserves to be in the conversation, and is an absolute lock for the Hall of Fame.

As for comparisons with the best male horses of all-time, even the best male 3 year olds, I feel much less comfortable making any grand statements. I guess I am like most of the people who voted for the Bloodhorse Top 100; the absolutely highest ranked female horse on that list was Ruffian at #35, BEHIND Skip Away, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, and Cigar among contemporary males. In many ways, I concur with the belief that the greatest female of the 20th century, whether it be Ruffian or Personal Ensign or Gallorette, would lose to male horses like Skip Away, Sunday Silence, and Cigar more often than she would win. The top male horses are just simply superior to the top female horses. Thus, in no way do I endorse the opinion that Rachel could defeat a  3 year old Secretariat or a 4 year old Spectacular Bid. Like with Ruffian and Personal Ensign(even a 4 year old Personal Ensign), I don't think Rachel would be able to win a mythical 10 race series against even Skip Away.

Having said this, what I write next might seem hypocritical. Were Rachel to win the Travers or Woodward and then the Beldame or Jockey Club Gold Cup, I would rate her season as one of the greatest of all time, superior to Sunday Silence's 89' Horse of the Year campaign and Skip Away's 98', and equal to Cigar's 95' and maybe even The Bid's 80'. I would still beileve that if lined up, Rachel would likely lose to all of those horses(Skip Away had a streak in which he ran at least a 114 Beyer in 14 of 15 consecutive races while Cigar ran at least a 111 Beyer in ALL of his final 17 career starts). However, the fact that Rachel would have accomplished those things as a 3 year old filly would increase the value of her season, at least for me. Along such lines, I find Rachel's Haskell triumph, given she is a filly and won by 6, more impressive than Skip Away's Haskell victory in 1996 or Holy Bull's in 94'. Similarly, were Rachel to win the Travers, I would find it to be of much greater historic significance, and thus more impressive, than Point Given's win in the same race in 2001.

My logic is similar to how many vote for Horse of the Year. When Azeri won the 2002 Horse of Year, the voting did not necessarilly reflect the opinion that Azeri was suprior to male horses like Street Cry, Left Bank, Volponi, War Emblem, Medalgia d' Oro or that, if lined up in a race, she would be the favorite. Instead, the Horse of the Year voting reflected the clear opinion that Azeri's accomplishments, as a 4 year old female, were superior to the accomplishments of any other horse that year. The same thing was true for 1997. Absolutely no one argued that the 2 year old Favorite Trick could compete against older horses like Skip Away, Gentlemen, Formal Gold, Will's Way, or Siphon or even 3 year olds like Silver Charm, Touch Gold, or Free House. In fact, based on pure speed/ability, Favorite Trick was at least 15 lengths inferior to all of those horses. The reason he won Horse of the Year, however, is that voters took into account he was just 2 years old, and enough of them felt that his dominance over his peers and his accomplishments in his division were superior to the dominance/accomplishments of these other horses(undefeated or not, I did not believe Favorite Trick should have been HoY, but the voters clearly thought differently).

Already, I feel Rachel has had the best season by any racehorse since Cigar in 1995. This, even though I do not believe she would be able to defeat Ghostzapper, Tiznow, Invasor, Skip Away, Gentlemen, or Formal Gold in a mythical race. Yet, few females EVER could have beaten males of such quality. In my opinion, when one is comparing horses across age and sex/gender lines, the question "who's faster/better" is different from "who had the better year/ who would you rank higher".  Thus, while I believe Formal Gold was faster than Rachel, I would rank Racehl's 2009 over any year he had and would rank her career above his.

The Arlington Million is coming up a monster race. Not only is there Gio Ponti and Einstein, widely considered to be the 2 best North American turf males, Presious Passion is also in the field, he of the run-off UN Handicap win and ranked #3 in Mike Watchmaker's top 10. 2 other horses in the Watchmaker Top 10, Mr Sidney and Just as Well are in the field; Mr Sidney has won the grade 1 Makers Mark and gr.2 Firecracker in his last 2 turf starts while Just as Well captured the Arlington Handicap in his last start.

In addition to these outstanding domestic horses, the Million features 2 solid international horses in Cima de Triomphe and Gloria de Campeao. Cima' is a group3 winner this year, but more significantly ran a quality 4th(out of 10) in the group 1 Coral Eclipse, beaten only by such stars as Sea The Stars, Ripvanwinkle, and Conduit. Gloria' won the $3 million Singapore Airlines Cup in his latest start and was 2nd to Well Armed in the Dubai World Cup prior to that.

The pace scenario should also be fascinating, with Gloria', Recapturetheglory, Mr. Sidney, and Einstein possessing the tactical speed to stay withing at least 10 lengths of Presious Passion early.

It is true Abbie, while most of what is said on this blog offer solid contribution, there are some "ridiculous rantings" for sure.  Here is one that stands out for me, "The two best 3 y o fillies, in my opinion which I am entitled to, no one has to agree, are STARDOM BOUND AND CARELESS JEWEL!  I wonder if that person still feels that way less than a week later?  Stardom Bound is a really nice filly and Carless Jewel could turn out to be, but please, saying things like that only detract from your credibility.

Well, heck.  I woke up this morning with the realization that my post last night was not correct.  While Secretariat did indeed finish first in eight stakes races in a row, he did not win eight in a row.  He was disqualified from first for a slight bumping incident with Stop the Music in the Champagne, and placed second.  So technically, he did not win eight in a row, my bad.  It spoils his ten race win streak, too.  Ah, well.  He did still finish first.  

Another couple of thoughts just occurred to me. If Rachel was Richard, would there be this love/hate battle going on? (maybe hate is too strong a word)  If a MALE was reeling off victories like she has been, would everybody be hailing the second coming of Secretariat?  Seems like anytime a horse puts in a hugely dominating peformance, that's what we hear... "it reminded me of Secretariat's Belmont...blah blah blah"   I think there's a definite case of chauvinism going on. No matter what Rachel has done, there is a good many people who say she has more to prove and, of course, that she really hasn't beaten anything. So now that there appears to be a healthy & robust rival in Quality Road, he will be thrown up as the next challenge she MUST face in order to "prove" something. And if she doesn't her owner will be labeled as "afraid" to face REAL competition.

Forgive my ignorance but I thought Horse of the Year (and other awards) were based on the horse's active performance record and the strength of their year or seasonal campaign...NOT seeing how they match up against horses who are retired or no longer alive.   Maybe in another 10 years, the BloodHorse will publish another "Top 100 Thoroughbreds"  that will possibly incorporate todays stars.

It's very easy to call an athlete "the greatest" -- in any sport. A performance like Michael Phelps' Olympics certainly is worthy of that claim because -- AFTER the games were done, his wins and records proved him to eclipse swimming greats of the past. In the end, he won eight gold medals and crushed world records. I don't recall anyone saying he really didn't beat any worthy opponents and even in the race where he won by the tinest of margins, he still won.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I was thrilled that I was able to see the most dominating display of athletics ever. I was a very young child but remember the 72 Olympics and Mark Spitz's amazing feats. And I remember the horseracing stars of the 70's. Those memories don't go away nor are they tarnished because some other pretty good horses came along in recent years.   That's how I feel about Rachel.  She brings excitement and joy to a sport that I love and whether she wins or loses from here on out, I will not forget what she has given us thus far.  And if, for some reason, she doesn't run as a four year old, I'm okay with that.  

But for NOW can't we just enjoy the excitement and thrill of watching Rachel run and let history be written in due course?

Draynay:

I’ve been reading your comments and all I can say is…..WOW.

I can’t understand why you repeatedly have to put most of us down, talk about some horses like they are beneath racing, why your opinion is the only one that matters.  After analyzing your comments at length I’ve come to the conclusion that you are MUCH TOO GOOD FOR US.   After all you:

• Are a very formidable handicapper

• Are a man of the world

• Played and excelled in every sport I know of

• Are an astute businessman

• Have travelled the world far and wide

• Apparently you have friends

• Have the ability to get INSIDE PEOPLE’S HEADS

• Have actually seen a giraffe…up close and personal

• Did I mention that you actually have friends?

I don’t know why, with all of your knowledge and your superior ability to judge character, you don’t start your own BLOG somewhere.  I’m sure we could conduct a poll of this BLOG to see what we would name it

In the meantime in my rating system I assign you a 7…Beyer.

     What a great field in the Arlington Million this weekend!   Gio Ponti, Einstein, and Precious Passion, Wow!  Can someone explain to me how could Precious Passion be the fifth pick at a Morning Line of 6-1 ?  Gio Ponti(5-2), Einstein(4-1), Cima De Triomphe (9-2), Gloria De Campeao (5-1), THEN Precious Passion(6-1)...Crazy, All my money will be on Precious Passion, Then Einstein, Followed by Gio Ponti.  I predict Presious Passion will go off as the favorite at post time.  Does anyone agree with those Odds?

QR will give RA her first true test while stalking the pace.He will be more than able to push her early. However, I don't think they want any part of him  at 1 1/4. I hope they do run because it will set it up for a one run closer and it won't be the Bird that starts with Summer.

MTB needs an aggresive rider that will save ground, not afraid to split horses and run into tight spaces. MTB has proven that he will do that and then some. Mike Smith is NOT that type of rider.He almost always goes wide unless there is a HUGE hole to go through.

Jason, don't forget about Fabulous Strike running in the Vanderbilt this weekend. We could be wathcing the BC Sprint Champion.

Jason,

You  do know that Jess Jackson reads this blog.  He addressed that when he re-stated that Rachel was not going to the BC.  The decision is entirely his as to where she runs and I respect that but if she were to run the Travers

it would certainly show everyone

what faith he has in his filly and that he's not afraid to go against QR.  It would probably be better than any BC race anyway.

Rachel has never run that distance and she needs to.  She needs to take on the other top 3 year old.  QR is a monster but so is she.  Her Preakness was not her best race as she was on lead after the first turn and held it till the end.  Not her style.  Having watched the Mother Goose and Haskell, I don't think she will have a problem with 1 1/4.  Borel road her perfectly and she has not really been tested but if she goes against QR, she will be and she may prevail but she needs the chance to do so.  He's not invincable and they don't know just how good Rachel is either.  If she loses to him, it will not diminish her in any way but if she beats him she is the best 3 year old in the country.

da3hoss,

I agree that Rachel Alexandra doesn't NEED to win a race at the Classic distance of 10 Furlongs to validate how special a filly she is or even to cop the HOTY title but in order to silence critics who would put her down a knotch from the legendary ones like Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Holy Bull and Ruffian, she should compete successfully at that distance.  There is ample opportunity for her to achieve that as a 3YO.  Not competing in even one of either the Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup or Breeders Cup Classic would smack of "Zenyattism" which Rachel can do without in order to crown a truly amazing 3YO campaign.

Gobin,

I am on record as saying previously that Rachel Alexandra deserves to be compared with the legendary Ruffian.  The latter ran her 12 furlongs race in 2:27 and change which is an awesome time for a 3YO filly (you should agree that she always made her competetion look ordinary). It is therefore not unreasonably to expect RA to compete at 10/12 furlongs to remove all doubts about her place among the elite 3YOs of all time.

Draynay,

You have lost all objectivity of an ardent race fan and sound like a spokesperson for Jess Jackson.  You comments show that you envision Quality Road running in the Breeders Cup but you need come here and tell us why Rachel Alexandra should skip the BCC (avoiding competetion against the best at 10 furlongs) and instead be aiming at the Clark Handicapp.  Does JJ (sincerely no disrespect to him) now have you in his backpocket or is the politics of the game sucking you in bro?  BTW, do you really think that the improving Kensei stands a chance against Quality Road, Summer Bird and ...er Mine That Bird ...or even Papa Clem in the Travers?  He is certainly on the rise but remember that it is only because of running against Rachel that some of the aforementioned triple crown contenders look velnerable.        

Abbie Knowles, Stardust :

both of you are right......GOD Bless you two.....love the horses.. win or lose....all horses...

Mine That Bird is laughing all the way to the bank!!!!!

Draynay sez "Give me a break, I don't care for the Derby mud winner get over it. "

I don't know what Mine That Bird's place in history will be, but one thing is for sure, he has proven himself to be the ONLY top name horse this year who is proven durable, who was capable of taking on the Triple Crown series and remaining healthy and still able to finish in the money in all three races, even coming closer to beating Rachel Alexandra as any horse this year (even Jess jackson admitted that Calvin Borel was the deciding factor in that race).

It could be that there was a price to pay for that extrordinary effort in terms of future performance, but in that reagrd Mine That Bird will not be matched by ANY horse this year and he certainly deserves respect for rising to the challenge in a manner that none of the other equine ( including RA) superstars could match.

Ted from LA,

      Perfect name for Draynay, "The Liar", When referring to this person in the future, That will be the name I will use, Thanks...

Just a Reminder,

      Draynay's Quote from June 7th(Included in his last comment before the Ban):

" After this post I will no longer call him the Fluke..."

Hence, "The Liar" couldn't even keep his word for two months, lol...

Thank You, Mr. Jess Jackson for racing Rachel...she is awesome...and I must say beautiful...run her where you will and against whoever you will...I just thank you...cant wait for Rachel & Curlin babies....love them both....

these folks just cant stand a filly beating a colt...

The American Classic

1 1/4 Miles -Dirt- Gulfstream Park

Rachel Alexandra 5-2

Zenyatta 4-1

Quality Road 5-1

Einstein 8-1

Summer Bird 10-1

Rail Trip 10-1

Mine That Bird 10-1

Colonel John 10-1

Kensei 10-1

Well Armed 12-1

Albertus Maximus 12-1

Tiago 15-1

Macho Again 15-1

Commentator 15-1

AE-Asiatic Boy 20-1

AE-Smooth Air 20-1

AE-Dry Martini 20-1

AE-Informed 20-1

tvnewsbadge, I applaud your comments regarding MTB. You hit the nail on the head and he's not been given the respect he not only deserves but has rightfully earned!

It was a synopsis. If you don't have a dictionary take some of those big bucks you have and buy one.  

If I were to list ALL of the horses you have vacillated on and the voluminous picks you have made in the last year (flip flopping worse than one of the fish you probably caught out of the Yangtze, following your trek across Tibet, climbing Everest in the Himalayas and rescuing the Dalai Lama’s successor and then your return trip across the Great Wall, which you walked single handedly in record time). Uh where was I? Similarly to what YOU do the fabrications and the professed knowledge starts to all run together.

Anyway if I were to POST ALL of your choices over the past year it would fill up VOLUMES, use up ALL the bandwidth and crash the internet.

Furthermore, HOW DARE you challenge Jason in any way shape or form. He spanked you once and revealed you for the fool you are, take his advice and mine put duct tape over your mouth, tie your hands down and go sit in the corner like a good boy.

For the sake of every serious racing fan, participant or people really interested in serious discourse.

Now I'll do what anyone with the wherewithall you CLAIM to have SHOULD be doing. I'm going to go watch the races LIVE and bet some money to support the game.

Terrible News this morning...

"Finallymadeit" broke his cannon bone while traning at Saratoga tuesday for the Whitney, and had to be euthanized...

Some days I wonder why I love this sport, Today is one of them...

Gun Bow, outstanding posts!  You bring a needed objectivity that makes this blog more complete.  I appreciate your thoroughness and thoughtfulness in all of your opinions.  The only thing I disagree with you is this:  I think if you look at the success that the best female horses have enjoyed when racing against the best males of their era, they consistently do well.  International racing helps to prove this, as does, the win percentage of the best females running in big American races.  I think we often assume that males are better and on average they are, but the best fillies and mares often hand them their lunch. I stand by my opinion, that I would not bet against Rachel Aexandra against any dirt horse since Spectacular Bid.  Skip Away was one of my favorites and a true "ironhorse", but better than Rachel...I just don't see it.  Your posts keep me on my toes, sifting thorugh pps and replays, which is great...thanks!  

I was just shocked and saddened to read of Finallymadeit breaking down during a workout.  It was not so long ago that I read of his hind quarter paralysis as a foal and appreciated the significance of his name.  It probably explains why he would not switch leads in the stretch.  That he achieved as much as he did brings even more meaning to his name.  RIP

tvnewsbadge it seems you and a few others are still upset that I call the Derby mud winner "The Fluke" and I did agree to stop calling him that so I will go with my first thought and call him "The Claimer" just to make you all happy.  The Claimer is a good 3rd place horse and I am sure he will probably do the same thing in the Travers so good luck to your "Claimer."  Now let me address you Ranagulzion I think there is a bit more monkey play going on than you think.  First of all Todd Pletcher wants to win HOY and there is a path and only a path for him to do so.  He has to beat Rachel and Mr. Jackson knows this.  While he claims he is going to the Travers if Quality Road is ready I have a hunch that Kensei is going to the Travers which means Rachel is going to the Woodward.  AND why wouldn't Kensei go to the Travers considering he has a win at Saratoga going 147 and should be the favorite.  As soon as Jackson announces Rachel to the Woodward Pletcher will wait a day or two and announce Quality Road is not ready yet and is being pointed to the Woodward and the match vs. Rachel which he needs.  If he beats Rachel and wins the Breeders Cup Quality Road is then HOY.  Mr. Jackson is not dumb and knows this so he is going to force Quality Road to meet on Rachels terms at 1 1/8th in the Woodward.  Who doesn't want to see Rachel vs. Quality Road, Colonel John, and Macho Again.  She wins that race and she is an instant LEGEND for ALL TIMES.  Kensei takes on the Derby winner and Belmont winner and wins that race and Jackson has his cake and eats it too.  Its the perfect plan and brought to you by me the all knowing all seeing one. Lastly, GubBow I am forced to hang around here because MonicaV and Paula would miss me too much if I was gone and I feel an obligation to all my thousands of fans out there.  I am here for them.

I used to spend my time at the track on the backstretch, but I'm out of the "game" now and only spend weekends in the grandstand.

It's my observation that true "horse people" would never show disdain for those involved in this great game. It's the losing, "busted" gamblers who   denigrate a race rider's ability,  a trainer's understanding of the condition book or an owner's intentions on what they do or don't do with THEIR horse.

With that being said, it's obvious to me that young Dray is still eligible for "non-winners of a ham sandwich, lifetime."

RIP Finallymadeit.

GunBow:

You get no argument from me.  If Rachel were to win the Travers or Woodward and then the Beldame (I’d rather see the Personal Ensign) or Jockey Club Gold Cup, I would rate her season as one of the greatest of all time, especially for a 3 y-o filly….that’s season, not necessarily horse.

There would be no doubt about that.  Rachel is a freak, but where does she place all time?  The quality of the competition should be a major consideration when determining that.

I will once again say that if the quality of the horses she is racing against had the overall depth that we have seen in past years, it would be that much more difficult and consequently would be super impressive.  How would she do if she followed your schedule?  She would probably win out, but that being said, when you examine the competition, at least up to this point, why not?

• Other than Rachel, the three year old filly division, when you consider horses that were injured or currently on the shelf, is very weak (at least up to this point) in terms of actual accomplishments.  She towers over them all.

• The three year-old colt division started out as being very strong, but leading up to the Derby suddenly became fragmented because of injuries and controversial synthetics surfaces.  Without taking away from MTB and SB, etc, the best ones haven’t been racing.  Quality Road and a much headier ride for Summer Bird will make it that much stronger and I still believe that MTB will run at least one bang up race at some point (especially if he gets a little more time off).  It’s interesting to note that of Mike Watchmaker’s top ten, (4) are currently on the shelf, (2) are just coming back after being off for awhile, and Kensei is just coming into himself….(And many of the top 3 y-o’s are not on this list because of injury).  I know that his latest rankings were before QR raced on Monday, but he still has MTB top rated.  Without belittling MTB and his accomplishments, this in itself speaks volumes.

• The older filly and mare division is at a cross roads because many of the good ones are racing on the west coast and there are the synthetic issues to deal with.  A lot of people have suddenly forgotten about Zenyatta, but I wouldn’t.

• The older handicap division is as weak over-all as I can remember it and is very inconsistent (Well Armed for example going from world beater to a last place finish).

When Rachel races again, I for one will be cheering for her.  When/if she races against Zen I will hope for a dead-heat.  I just wonder at times what this year would have been like without those two.

Finallymadeit euthanized after training injury.

Very sad

And when I see a horse break down and watch as a dejected gambler throws down his/her losing tickets in disgust, bemoaning their luck, I boil up inside and have to walk away before I strangle them. These animals live and run for our pleasure. Nothing else. Every "blood horse" is a blessing, especially a gutsy gelding with nothing in store for his future except competing for our pleasure.

Very sad to hear about Finallymadeit. I really hate this aspect of the sport but there is no way to totally eliminate it. I am with you Greg J. It makes me wonder why I love the sport so much.

Can anyone answer a question for me? People said Rachel Alexandra looked "tired" after the Haskell. Can you tell me what to look for in a tired horse? I looked at her race on youtube and didn't see anything but I have no clue as to  what to look for.

Louisville is under water literally. I feel very sorry for everyone. That means you too Tim. My husband is Stormwater Manager (Civil Engineer) for a county in the south and I know how much flooding impacts families and their homes. It can be life altering.  

Draynay, you know I would miss you if you were gone and your second half of the season scenario may actually happen. You could be right about that. But calling my boy, MTB, a "Claimer" not so much. How about we call him "The Derby Winner?????" C'mon.

steve from st. louis I could not agree with you more.  It breaks all our hearts to see a beautiful horse go down and when he is on my ticket I could care less.  Remember this, they are born and bred to run and before you feel too sorry for many pampered horses I think you should do a little research on how a chicken gets into the bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.  I know because I use to sell breading be lucky you don't.  Nothing is good or bad except by comparison.

I was as enthusiastic as anyone when Rachel beat the boys in the Preakness, so much so that I became very defensive when anyone would suggest that the Kentucky Derby winner would have caught her if the race distance had been just a little longer.  In fact, I was a little irritated at one of my favorite horseracing people whom I hold in high esteem, jockey Mike Smith, for even suggesting it.  But now that my emotions have calmed down, coupled with this current onslought of people saying she is the greatest thing on four hooves since Secretariat, I am taking a more rational, analytical approach.  Honestly, there will always be a doubt in my mind whether or not Mine That Bird, a horse at his peak, would have passed her in the Preakness if the distance had been 10 furlongs rather than 9.5 furlongs.  I know, I know, she raced wide therefore the distance was longer, and she got caught up in a speed duel, and she didn't handle the surface all that well.  Are these legit excuses or just plain excuses?  The only way that doubt will be erased from my mind is if she actually competes and wins at 10 f.  Even if she is not able to beat the best at 10 furlongs, it won't diminish how beautiful and sensational she is.  But if she is going to have all the men wrapped around her little finger, as da3hoss once said (thought that was cute), then she really should prove a little more.

LAZMMANICK what is wrong with the older division ?  Colonel John multiple G1 winner, Einstein multiple G1 winner and Macho Again winner Jim Dandy winner and G1 winner of the Stephen Foster? Smooth Air Stakes winner on Dirt, and Grass and Stakes winner at 7 furlongs, 1 mile, 1 1/16, and 1 1/8th.

Shawn P: Now you have to add Ky.  Fried Chicken breading expert to young Dray's wordly accomplishments. A real life Forrest Gump.

Oh no, Finallymadeit.  I remember reading an article about him earlier in the year that said as a weanling or yearling he was lame just walking.  I don't know how they got him to the races.  This is not really that much of a surprise, it just plain hurts.

RIP, Finallymadeit.  South Florida's iron horse wasn't iron after all (none of them are).  Very sad.

So thankful there are so many people on this blog who care and love horses.

It is difficult to continue on with this sport when a horse breaks down.  Friends have questioned me why I do.  

As Greg J and others have stated it makes me wonder why I love racing so much.  I can't make excuses, there are none.

Now, for those who constantly berate Mine That Bird, and other runners, may I say to you be grateful they are alive!  Stop the nonsense.

My anger flares up when I read the negative and demeaning remarks regarding the horses.  Speculate all  you want on their talents, but do not make it personal.  It is disgusting.

Finally Made It is gone.  Do you get it?

"Gee Shawn P I am so sorry for giving you my top horses so early in the year.  Believe me I won't do it next year because people hold you to your favorite so I won't being giving my top 3 until the week of the Derby."

Draynay 04 Aug 2009 11:34 PM

A self imposed ban on predictions until 3 weeks before the Derby. Now if he was only a man of his word, but that's probably asking too much from a nay nay. Most likely this will be another in a long string of lies from the one some now unaffectionately call "the liar". Really it has to be too good to be true.

Draynay:

You told Steve from st. louis that when a horse breaks down and it is on your ticket you could care less.....

Care less for what, the horse or for your bet?

Draynay:

Good question…..at least you’re not talking about chickens.  That’s a relief.  Come to think about it, you’re not talking about giraffes either.

• Older Division.....I'm talking dirt.

• Colonel John is probably going to stick to the grass and synthetics.

• Einstein is slated to go in the Million which means he will definitely go to SA for either the Classic or the Turf.  This means he will probably not face Rachel.  She is not going to the BC remember.  And if he does win out and Rachel wins out then we might be talking Clark if Einstein's people figure he has a chance at HOY.  In that case, why would Rachel go?

• Macho Again....Watchmaker is sure impressed...he forgot to list him in his top ten, but he did rate Jonesboro (10th)….ABZ did not rate Jonesboro in his mythical American Classic…..he did rate Macho Again at 15-1 (not too formidable).  This translates to….both these horses don’t have that kind of class.  And quit getting off on Macho Again’s G-1 win…..or do you forget the length of the stretch traffic problems that Einstein had in that race.

Once again I’m asking…..Where’s the beef?

Freetex when you go to Baseball games or Football games or HOCKEY GAMES... do you cheer for BOTH TEAMS?

There is no horse racing rule saying you have to like or care for every horse.  I don't care for the connections of the Derby mud winner and I guess that helps poison the horse for me or maybe its because he won the Derby by accident.

Back on the lap top, my kids brought it.

Paula, thanks. It hit mostly the U of L, CD, Old Louisville and the main Library areas. Almost every home there has a basement or a cellar so that's where the damage occurs. Think everything is fine on our homefront, just made me sick to recognize some of the places down on 2nd, 3rd st etc. Where  a lot of the old houses are. Also the library suffered extensive damage from what I was told.

'The Claimer'? You WISH you had a claimer like him. I don't understand what you don't get about the racing game? (well besides EVERYTHING) You obviously don't understand that a horse ISN'T being run where he 'doesn't belong' if he consistently finishes on the board, earns almost 2 million $ and stays healthy through it all.

Those horses are called HARD TRYING or HORSES WITH HEART.

Horses who don't belong, finish off the board over and over again in Stakes races, don't belong in the quality of races he's running. I think it just irritates you that you didn't name him in your litany of a thousand, he paid a bunch and you couldn't brag that you won a bundle on him. YOU are the epitome of the done everything, been everywhere, have everything guy who has nothing that backs that up.

I sure would have thought a wealthy have everything guy like you would have been at Del Mar or Saratoga opening day.

Greg J: your horse MTB is overrated my friend last two race 3rd 3rd that is no champion in my book. Stop talking you have no clue about horses and please I beg you dont put anymore money on him unless he is your filler horse on your superfecta! Canadian racing in 2008 lol what a joke!

Hockey and HUMAN sports don't compare with horse racing. You aren't CHEERING for BOTH horses, during a race that they're both in, you're trashing one consistently. Someone has been over this with you before. Shawn said you were schooled by Jason, guess he needs to put you back in the corner.

You don't care for the connections?

They don't care for you either. OOOPS they don't know you exist.

Gun Bow- I was not disappointed in my wait for your posts. Thank you for your intelligent and not demeaning words.

Laz- thank you for reminding us all of Lady's Secret's and Personal Ensign's accomplishments.

Personally, what have I learned form reading all these posts? If one REALLY wanted to, one could pick and choose certain criteria that others use to define greatness, and poke holes in the resume of just about every horse in the BH top 100 AND in the HOF! Let's try just a few:

1- Value longevity? Well, there goes 3 TC winners (GF, CF, Sec.) plus Man O'War, Ruffian and Go For Wand, none of whom raced beyond age 3 for various reasons.

2- Distance versatility? This one might be a bit tougher, but I don't think Kelso won too many sprints.

3- Surface versatility? That would eliminate every horse that raced before the mid 50's when grass racing took hold in the U.S.

4- Weight carrying ability? In 2004 3yo Smarty Jones in 7 EARLY season starts averaged almost the same amount of weight carried as 4yo Ghostzapper did in 4 LATE season starts - and if my memory serves me right SJ carried 126 3 times, GZ 2. True weight carrying ability for more than one start in the US does not exist anymore. Meanwhile 2yos in Europe are carrying 127- go figure.

5- Extensive campaigns? Well, when a horse is awarded HOY on the basis of 4 measly starts, then how could that possibly be a Horse of the YEAR?

6- Winning percentage? (for this purpose, WINNING, not in the top 3) Well, there's John Henry,  multiG1 winner on dirt and turf, SW at 2 etc. etc. but he did win less than 50% of the time. Current HOF installee Tiznow won 53% of the time.

Obviously, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek on the above! {except maybe for #4 & 5 :-)} Maybe we use the word "great" too freely , not just in horse racing but in other sports as well. There's nothing wrong with the words "very good" or "excellent".

Sorry for the rambling, but one last thought, as I put in my post under Dan Liebman's current editorial. ONE race will not determine who the best is overall, only who is best ON THE DAY. I would think at least 2 starts, different tracks, different distances would be more definitive, ala PE v. WC in the Maskette and Distaff. Unfortunately it seems we will be denied even the 1 race.

Who is going to win the Million Saturday?  I'm going to be there.  I know The Liar will pick the favorite, but who do you honest thinking people have for me?  

Boy! This is getting really ugly!

See you later alligators...Maybe by Friday, on the live blog, some of you will be in a better mood and will show horses the RESPECT they deserve. I should say LOVE but I recognize that, for some, it is a completely foreign concept.

LAZMANNICK that is a long list of horses but again none on that list are GREAT. They may have been accomplished but far, far from GREAT. I don't think Rachel would have any problems with any horses on that list male or female.  Wasn't the 88 Whitney a 3 horse field? That is pretty close to the Classic? King Swan and Gulch? Rachel winning the Preakness and Haskell in dominating performances beating the other 2 Classic winners is not more impressive than that? That was the only time Personal Ensign went against the boys. Imagine if Rachel beat 2 other over-matched colts what your reaction would be? Personal Ensign was also 4yo at the time. I don't think it would be fair to give Personal Ensign a pass for that and not give Rachel Alexandra a pass for what she has accomplished so far.

Rachel isn't just winning, she's dominating.

BTW having seen horses the caliber of Dr. Fager, Damascus, Buckpasser, Secretariat, Slew, Affirmed, Ruffian, The Bid it really is hard to get excited about any of the modern day colts you mentioned. In fact I don't rate any of them among the all-time greats at all. (I treat them the way you treat Rachel lol)  The horses Cigar beat won more Grade 1 races than the horses Secretariat beat. And no one turned up to race against Spectacular Bid in the 80 Woodward, so he would get no points using that criteria. (I hope you get my point, that the really GREAT ones scare away most of the competition).  

I just try to appreciate them for what they are and try to put their performances in proper context, just like I'm doing with Rachel. The fact is she's blazing a trail no filly has blazed in recent memory, certainly not a 3yo filly. Genuine Risk and Winning Colors tried. At the end of the day her resume even as it stands now (still unfinished) pales by comparison to no modern day 3yo filly before her. By winning the Preakness alone she gave herself the chance to be considered great,(it took 86 years for a filly to accomplish that) and now that she's beaten both Classic winners...it is not possible to make any list of great fillies and mares and not include Rachel. (I'm talking just about the girls).

I don't even remember any of the fillies you mentioned being SERIOUSLY compared to Ruffian. The last one I think to draw that comparison was Go For Wand. Now for her to be an all-time great (male or female) she would really have to go off and I mean go really mental the rest of her career. She doesn't have to win them all (although that would be impressive),just continue to be as dominant as she has been when she wins.

Each individual has their own personal criteria for measuring greatness and I can respect that. It's all good! Now when your criteria is so far out there that you start putting Big Brown with Secretariat. That I don't get.

Lazmannick, give the guy a break. He meant caring less about the bet. He cares about the horse. NO ONE on this blog wants to see a horse get hurt or euthanized.

LAZMANNICK you want to talk about Einstein in one breath as potential HOY in the next you discount Macho Agian whipping him in the Stephen Foster.  Macho Again had to swing 8 WIDE !  Einstein had room and just didn't have enough to catch Macho Again late. Macho Again beat a very good field that had 65 wins between them.  The facts are I doubt many will want to take on Rachel.  But to say the older division is weak is just plain wrong.  Rachel is going to go through what The Bid went through at 4.  Nobody wanted to race him either.  But she is just a 3 year old filly yet I dare you to find more than a handful that want to take her on young or older.  Some will race for 10 or 20 percent like the Derby mud winner or "The Accident" but most will not. If Quality Road is that good and wants a piece of Rachel he could have had her at the Haskell but he chose a softer spot and I don't blame him.  If he wants Rachel he can have her in the Woodward.  Let Kensei play with the other Triple Crown winners for the title of 3rd best 3 year old.  If Quality Road is all that come take on Rachel in the Woodward... ain't nothing stopping him.

DRAYNAY,

Let me paint this scenario for you.  Consider the strong possibility that Quality Road wins the Travers, the Jockey Club Gold Cup, the Breeder's Cup Classic and has the option of closing out the season with an appearance in the Clark.  Also very likely, he breaks/equals another track record along the way ...tell me who is sitting in the catbird seat in the HOTY race and who NEEDS to beat who to win the HOTY my friend?

I am a fan of both horses but the "monkey business" is a non-starter for me.  Rachel's Haskell performance was so authoritative that running against her must be scary but with a horse like Quality Road back to rule the 3YO roost there can be no complacency in JJ's corner.  

This is turning out to be quite an action packed season and there is more to come if Sea The Stars show up at the Breeders Cup and runs into a rampaging Quality Road.  Think of the buzz in racing circles that would result.  Could Rachel afford to miss the big dance and still lock up HOTY in that scenario?  It may be instructive to remember how Smarty Jones lost out to Ghostzapper in 2004.  

Draynay, what makes me angry about your posts, yes, truly angry, is your total disregard for any horse you do not like. Your use of words is so mean & vicious that you may as well be talking about garbage you put in your trash bin at home. I don't care if a horse walks around the racetrack & it takes him or her an hour to do so, they do not deserve the disrespect you reap onto horses you do not like. You speak about "claimers" like they are lower than dirt. Most racehorses race in the claiming levels their entire careers & they give their heart & souls to each & every race just like Rachel Alexandra. You are entitled to your opinions regarding which horses you believe to be champions & which you do not. That does not, however, give you license to verbally abuse any of them. They are ALL magnificent creatures, every last one of them, from $2000 claimers to multi millionaires. As you may or may not know, I am a huge racing fan, but I do not bet on races. However, I do contribute financially to horse racing. I, instead, use my money to help give those "claimers" a soft landing when their racing days are over.  I help find homes for as many as I am able & help pay for their transport to their new homes. I, myself, own a retired $3000 claimer. He is one of the coolest horses anyone would be fortunate enough to meet. So what he decided that running 38 miles an hour was fast enough for him instead of 40 miles an hour. He deserves as much respect as Rachel Alexandra, for going out there and running HIS race as she does hers. What you fail to realize, Draynay, is that they all deserve that respect. Are you telling me that you don't have enough of a command of the English language to give your opinions about a horse without the meanness?

ColetteMarie

Ted From La,

      While my heart wants Einstein to win, I hope he gets a better trip then what he had in the Stephen Foster, But even if he gets a perfect trip, I don't see anyone catching Precious Passion, Hopefully the Turf will be firm for him, So, My biggest pay-off will be with, Precious Passion, Einstein, and I will throw in, Recapturetheglory(20-1) in my Tri-Box, He won last time out at Arlington, I am probably crazy leaving Gio Ponti out, But What would be the point picking only the Favorites?(Unless my name was, "The Liar").  Gio Ponti will be on other Tickets, Of course...

It ain't good being naive!,

       Yeah, Your right, The Kentucky Derby Winner isn't a Champion, Please, Come back to me when you have a clue on what your talking about, I can't believe I even wasted two minutes responding to you, When will I learn?, lol...

Draynay:

You're grabbing at straws as usual. If you're saying that Macho Again would have won the Foster without Einstein being in trouble, get on Ophra and talk to Dr. Phil. Admit it, this is not a strong year for the older horses on dirt.

Paula

Sorry if I rankled your fethers about your little friend, but the way he brought up Kentucky Fried Chicken was really kind of tasteless.

So... All Quality Road has to do is dodge her in the Haskell and Woodward and win the Travers, Jockey Gold and win the Breeders Cup?  If I am Jackson I say prove it and if you do I will see you in the Clark.  But with a Woodward and Beldame win there is NOTHING Quality Road can do. He has to beat her in the Woodward.  Her 9 wins would trump anything he can do along with her PERFECT record this year.  She will have beaten the best females, the best older females, the best males, and the best older males undefeated.  Which no other horse in history can claim.

Ok, i agree with Zookeeper, you people are getting nasty on here, sheesh. I though, and this is not to dis anyone, am going to see if i can stick it out.

Alright, i'm going to stand back an be as objective and unbias as i can be in this, starting with MTB. I do not resent him in any way, but i do not feel he is as great as some do. I think he is good overall but one dimensional. When he does get his way in a race, like the Derby he gives off the impression that he has the potential to be great, which he does, but not until he proves that he isn't so one dimensional, and he hasn't done that. Right now amoung the 3yr old colts, i feel Summer Bird, QR, Kensai are better than MTB. If you count mid distance horses and sprinters i'd put Munnings and even Zensational above him. I'm not going to go and mention all the others who got knocked out earlier this year, because they did not show the durability he has this year. The reason i put QR in is because he is back in action, not retired or waiting till next year as are many.

On RA, best horse bar none this decade. I feel she's better than BB, Curlin, Bernardini, Invasor, just to name a few. I never got the oppertunity to see the greats, male or female of the sixties and seventies. Not even those in the ninties, because at that point i didn't really know all that much about racing. I do however go back and look at tapes all the time of them. I have books that practically fill my room about them, so i do get a very good feel of how great they were. Ruffian, Spectacular Bid and Sec., were like horses sent from god, they just had that presense off and on the track. I get how perfect they seemed to be, and i wish i could've been there to experience it. What some of you older, people on here that have been around racing longer don't get is that what you experienced then, i get to experience now. I got it with Curlin and now RA. RA is this new generations Ruffian. She has accompished so much its unbelievable. You want to say because of the competition she has faced she is not great i say yes she is because she had the durability to make it this far. It's not her fault the others were not sound enough to keep going, that just testifies that they weren't good enough, because to be good even great you have to have it all, not just speed and talent, you have to be sound too. That is why she is great, she's the whole package. When i watched the haskell, i seriously almost cried, just from the amazement at which she so easily won. She was not spent, she hardly broke a sweat. To me she is one of those god like horses i've read about and seen in tapes. She's unique, everything about her is. She is my generations Ruffian. I'll bet those who were still alive from the early 1900's weren't all to happy when they heard people comparing horses like Ruffian, the Bid, and Sec to Man o War, or any of the greats from their time. Yet here those three are today being compared with Man o War and nobody cares. So please don't diminish her accomplishments, just let us sit back and watch this filly run. She deserves a chance to be prove her self w/o all this banter just like the others did.

I go away to actually do some work for a few hours and when I come back...WHAM!!!!

Giraffes, chickens, former Vice-Presidents, name-calling, floods and to top it all off: dissing Canadian racing!!!

I can't wait until the Jason-live-blog on Friday ....Jason: do you have some way to be traffic cop when we're all typing madly and wildly at the same time?

Ted,

    I like PP. I like Greg J don't see why the track record breaking horse doesn't get more respect. He is only fifth choice and is hardly ever mentioned. He ran his butt off last time out and he isn't receiveing hardly any attention. He is one of the top three American horses in that field and yet he is only fifth choice. Unreal.

Gobin:

Who, besides Personal Ensign, would be considered in the level of ultra greatness that you're talking about in her era and be eligible to race against her....I can't really find one.  As far as a light racing schedule, don’t forget the broken leg she suffered at two.  It wouldn’t be wise to race her too many times.  I think the fact that she beat a BC winner and two horses that each had at least 7 G-1 wins qualifies for something.

Lady's Secret might have lost a lot of races, but I think she won something like 25 which is roughly twice as many as Rachel has had starts.  She was small and raced over several years?  How would she have held up against the horses of the seventies?  I don’t know, but then again, how would any horse racing today have held up against them.  They might win the odd race but they certainly wouldn’t dominate, not when taking on all comers.

You want to give Rachel credit?  Fine, so do I.  But the fact is, both those horses had much tougher campaigns than Rachel has had so far in terms of competition.  That's all I'm saying.  They each won multiple times at 1-1/4M against top competition, each won a BC race (you have to be in one to win one right).  If you take away Rachel’s times and she still dominates the way she has, would you still feel the same way about her?

ColetteMarie,

      Perfectly Stated and I echo your thoughts!, You are the True Champion for helping these wonderful athletes when they come off the track, Thank You...

ColetteMarie:

Totally Awesome.  People like you are what they sport SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT.

Good luck.  I hope you win a giant lottery.  I bet I know what you would do with the money.

RACHEL IS AWESOME,RELAX ON THE SECRETARIAT COMPARISONS. SHE SHOULD RUN IN THE WOODWARD AND NOT THE TRAVER, BEAT OLDER HORSE WHICH SHE WILL AND THEN RELAX...MTB IS STILL A GOOD HORSE,CAN'T WIN THEM ALL.ZENYATTA IS AWESOME TOO, JUST THAT IN A MATCH RACE THE HORSE WITH TACTICAL SPEED WINS USUALLY. THIS IS MY THEORY IF THE DISTANCE IS SHORTER THAT 1 1/4MILE RACHEL WINS ANYTHING LONGER THOSE MASSIVE STRIDES OF ZENYATTA WIN,IF IT IS A NORMAL PACE IT DEPENDS ON PACE AND OTHER FACTORS.

COLETTE MARIE

Regarding your last post I totally agree with you. Great points!

JASON

I stated on your blog couple of weeks ago that ruffled Draynay that I didn't believe that RA would compete in both Haskell,Travers. I strongly felt it would be one,not both.

Ted in LA and Greg J: Rain this weekend in Chicago. They may be playing "lift, clean and place" for the Million. I worked at Arlington for the first three Millions back in the day--John Henry, The Bart, Perrault, etc. What fond memories when Joe Joyce (father of TVG's Mike Joyce) ran the place for Marj Everett. He was a terrific boss but replaced by Canadian John Mooney who left after a couple of trying years to work for United Tote. Ah, that toddlin' town. Can't wait to hear John Dooley's call. He's one of the best under the radar announcers in the country, in my eyes.

LAZMMANICK I have to admit this is one time you just don't know what you are talking about.  There are some very good G1 winning and G2 winning older horses on dirt.

Dry Martini just posted a 200 minute win in the 1 1/4 G2 Suburban beating a very good field.

Macho Again G1 winner on Dirt

Einstein G1 winner on Dirt

Commentator Multiple G1 winner Dirt

Smooth Air G2 winner on dirt and 2nd place finish in G1.

Colonel John G1 winner on Dirt

The older division is a lot stronger than it was last year. Those are 6 very good older horses on dirt so please stick to the facts.  Why don't you give me all the great older horses ON DIRT from 1973.

OK DRAY...let the games begin.  In the final analysis it will be about the quality of the performances including number of track records and the quality of the competition NOT about number of wins or who's undefeated (you should know better than that).

I should add that history smiles upon winners of the Breeders Cup.

Colette Marie, I hope you win a big lottery pot too.

LDP, the part of your post about RA being the new generation Ruffian, I think you're exactly right, like the song that goes "These are the good old days."  But I know if you weren't around for Secretariat, you weren't around for Carly Simon either!  They are from the same time period.  (See, I am really trying to start another music discussion, but only for Baby Boomers!!)

Finally, and I guess I am addressing Draynay here, it looks like QR is the only 3yo who could give Rachel a run for her money.  I don't think all that much of the older horses, they're okay, but someone has to win those G1 races every year because they run them every year.  Who has won more than one?  Anyhow, maybe QR will win the Travers, JCGC and BCC.  I mean, it's possible.  So then in the interest of determining HOTY, the dream matchup could take place in the Clark.  But that would be Rachel's what, 10th start this year, a lot for an elite 3yo filly, and a lot of heavy-duty racing all in the second half of the year for QR.  I actually think they would both be ripe to be upset!

STEVE FROM ST.LOUIS

I couldn't have said it better about horses that give their lives for this sport. I also agree about having to walk away after a horse goes down and many that don't even care. You nailed it!

ColletMarie, Well said, I to own a retired claimer horse. I was also unfourtunate to lose a horse on the track. My filly was leading a claiming race on the front end and was on her way to a victory. She was giving 110% as she alwayd did. Still to this day she is missed. But Draynay would no nothing about that since he seems to only love the horses that are winning and if they lose then they are easily disgarded like trash.  

Colette Marie--

Agreeing with you 100% on all points. Because we have a horse with an incredible pedigree that "didn't make it" as a racer, I am more sensitive to those who are vicious in criticizing particular horses. It shocks me that civilized people would engage in such viciousness. Our horse kept me going when I lost my mom, and I ADORE him. Every time I touch him, it's like touching history!

Draynay:

About the horses you listed...nice horses but other than Einstein and Col John on turf, not world beaters.

• Dry Martini has two wins in five starts this year and hs graded stakes was a G-2.  Can’t argue about the time though, it was great.

• Commentator is very long in the tooth and was always very classy, but at age eight his best days are far behind him.  He had difficulty at Charles Town (probably the track) and his one win was in a minor stake.  I love this horse and he is my sentimental choice in the Whitney.

• Macho Again…..believe it or not, I have always liked this horse, but the fact is he’s an in-and-outer.  He always gives his best, but his running style leads to inconsistency…..hence he is generally at good odds, never the favorite.

• Smooth Air is improving but still has a ways to go.  He had no excuse in the Met Mile.  He just couldn’t step up and get the job done.

Excluding Einstein and possibly Col. John (time will now tell), none of these four are dominant at this time.

As far as listing the top dirt horses since 1973…..I think it would be quicker for you to go out and sell a 100lbs of your chicken crisp.

And thanks for telling me that I don’t know what I'm talking about…..I already know that, but at least I’ll be the first to admit it.

LDP

I read your post (Re: 4:42)and loved it.  I like your passion and after reading it you honestly encouraged me to open my eyes a little more and not be so narrow minded.

Thanks.

Dray said: "Why don't you give me all the great older horses ON DIRT from 1973."

Well, okay.  

You set a lot of store by times, right?  Yeah, you do, because you keep trumpeting about Rachel’s times.  So you’d be impressed by a horse that won both the Kentucky Derby and Belmont at three, and then came back at four to set four track records (one of which was also a North American record for the distance) and equaled a fifth track record at four, right?  That’s Riva Ridge, who ran all his races on dirt.  Oh, he was voted champion older horse his four year old year, 1973.  He’s in the Hall of Fame and ranks #57 on the list of 100 top race horses.

Key to the Mint, won the Excelsior and equaled the track record while winning the Suburban at four (in 1973), was champion three year old the year before (winning the Derby Trial, the Brooklyn Handicap, the Whitney, Travers, and Woodward).

West Coast Scout (was 5 in 1973) - won the Haskell twice, at four and at five.  Won the Woodward.  Won the Monmouth Invitational.  

Susan’s Girl won six stakes races at age four (in 1973), all on dirt.  She was voted champion older female that year, is in the Hall of Fame, and ranks #51 on the list of 100 top race horses.  

Kennedy Road won three stakes races on dirt in California at age five, in 1973, including the Hollywood Gold Cup.  He finished second by a scant nose to Cougar II in the Santa Anita Handicap that year, as well.

Cougar II was a champion turf horse, but at age seven, in 1973, he also managed to win the Santa Anita Handicap.  That race, you’ll recall, is run on the dirt.   Since you included Colonel John and Macho Again in your list, I figured Cougar could make my list.

By the way, I couldn’t help noticing that while you asked for older horses from 1973, you included on your list one horse who this year is four, but whose only dirt win came when he was still three!  You’re funny.  

RA is nothing more or nothing less than a stakes winning filly who has won against a week 3 year group. She has taken advantage of the soft schedule quite nicely. Mr. Jackson understands that RA would NOT beat the Zen Master in Calif. That is why he is saying dumb things like Plastic. Mr. Jackson should understand that Curlin was way over the top last year and had nothing to do with the surface.  Until RA gets eyeballed by a champion, it is all speculation on how good/ or not she really is. Zenyatta has already stood the test. Has RA? Not in my opinion.

BRIAN

Good point,that's (the liar) to a tee. He easily discards horses like trash as you indicated.

Draynay opined

"tvnewsbadge it seems you and a few others are still upset that I call the Derby mud winner "The Fluke" and I did agree to stop calling him that so I will go with my first thought and call him "The Claimer" just to make you all happy.  The Claimer is a good 3rd place horse and I am sure he will probably do the same thing in the Travers so good luck to your "Claimer."

Actually, my comments weren't addressed to you son, but to people who have a real knowledge, understanding, and a respect for horse racing and the equine champions, but thanks for reading them.

TO:IT AIN"T EASY BEING GOOD

Regarding your comment to Greg J I can assure you he has knowledge that would put you to shame! If you don't think MTB is good after finishing in the money every race this summer you're fooling yourself. Get a reality check!

To me and most other owners, any horse who is Stakes placed is well worth having. Older,younger filly, mare, gelding,colt or horse a stakes placed horse, especially a winner is one we all love having. Actually any horse that consistently finishes on the board is a blessing. Any horse at ALL running on the track for most of us is a thrill.

I'm sure most fans see it that way because when all is said and done it's an innocent animal out there doing there best.

No one is disrespecting Rachel, they’re all disrespecting you Draynay.

You know, the comment after Winning Colors won the Derby sums up the trashing of MTB.

A drunken fan yelled “she’ll never win another race”

Wayne’s assistant, think it was Dallas, said “She doesn’t  HAVE to.” Neither does MTB.

Ask ANYONE who is in racing in America, what race they want to win? THE KENTUCKY DERBY. That trophy one gets for winning it, is something one will treasure forever.

Some of the wealthiest people in the World, the biggest sportsmen are all chasing it (just look at what Sheikh Mohammed has gone through and come up empty handed)and when they win it? "The biggest thrill I've had in my life".

Every fan, casual or otherwise or anyone who even knows what horse racing is asks the same question of race trackers. First, have you ever had a horse in the Kentucky Derby and then have you ever WON the Kentucky Derby? Doc, Chip et al can say Yes we have. End of story.

Agree with the comments about Rachel.  I've watched the race 3 times and still get chills.

Some coverage on ESPN would have been nice!  TVG did a good job but ESPN missed a great opportunity.  

Paula Higgins:

Re: your question about how to tell if a horse looks tired.

I am one of the commenters here who said that Rachel Alexandra looked so tired after the Haskell. I based my observation on some of the post-race photos of her in the current bloodhorse.com slideshow of the Haskell.

A picture's worth a thousand words. Take a look at that slideshow and tell me what you think.    

Tim G:

I absolutely LOVED your anecdote about Winning Colors, the Kentucky Derby, the idiot fan, and the response from the Lukas barn.

"She doesn't have to."

Truer words were never spoken. And that's the way I will always feel about Mine That Bird. A million blog postings to the contrary will never change my mind.

Thanks for brightening my day.

Dray, you're kind of like a goldfish; you have a five-second memory.

Here's how much you thought of Colonel John and Smooth Air before you needed them this year to prop up your arguments ----

Here you are running down people who preferred Curlin for HOTY over BB

Draynay 29 Oct 2008 6:58 PM

"you watch the Classic notice that just a little more than a length behind Curlin is Colonel John and Smooth Air."

Here's how good you thought Colonel John was before the BC Classic

Draynay 28 Sep 2008 11:11 PM Colonel John ? Your are kidding right? His two big wins were against Mambo in Seattle and some horse in the San Anita Derby we have never seen since

Here's my personal favorite: you dismissing Colonel John before the Travers Stakes (you know, CJ's G1 dirt win that you're not trying to use to prop up your arguments)

Draynay 22 Aug 2008 2:20 PM

First of all, C. John couldn't find the finish line with a road map

I've come to the conclusion that global warming is caused by Draynay. Tim, add that to his list of accomplishments, please.

ColetteMarie,  Excellent post, beautifully written.  I was really moved and totally agree with you.  You are a true horseperson.  Thank you for all that you have done.  We all should love them that much.  I'd love to read a blog where we all expressed what we love about racing and horses.

I am skipping all posted by or about Draynay - just can't take anymore.  

About the upcoming races - I don't think it will really matter all that much at this point which races Rachel runs in - she is just extraordinary and watching her race in anything is a thrill.  Also wanted to say I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Commentator in the Whitney.  Love that boy!!

Quality Road looked like a powerhouse.  It was great to see him back to his old self.

MineThatBird is a special horse and regardless of Draynay it's pretty obvious he has a loyal fan club.  I'm a permanent member.

Run with the wind now, Finallymadeit.

Does anyone else just cringe when you hear the phrase "healthy (or strong) as a horse"?

Tiz, actually that's Shawn with the vivid imagination, but I'm sure he's waiting with baited breath to add it to his tally board.

Sort of like 'Where in the world in Carmen Sandiego' or the other one my kids liked when they were about 4 Where's Waldo.

Thanks for making my point Cleone Riva Ridge was voted top American Older horse for winning 3 minor stakes races in New York. He trained poorly most of the year and got beat badly by a 56 to 1 shot Witchita Oil. Even though he was not ready to race again after losing badly the Phillip Morris insisted he be in the race to add star power.

(And now you know the R E S T of the story !!!)

Tim G.,

     I agree 100 percent with SoldierCourse...

“She doesn’t HAVE to.”

The quote of the year...

Tiznowbaby:

Global warming ... Draynay ... HaHaHaHAHAHA!!! Call Al Gore.

Loved it.

Soldier Course, I'm with you. No matter what is said to the contrary about MTB, I will stick by him win or lose. If he never won another race, just the thrill of watching him as he starts making his move is worth everything to me. You can just see the determination on his face. He has such personality I smile everytime I see a picture of him. He's such a ham for the cameras! I'm so glad to see such loyal MTB fans on here who are willing to stick by him even if our viewpoint is not shared by all and is not the more popular one. I do love RA and she is awesome to watch but there is just something very magical about MTB. His huge heart and sheer determination makes me look forward to each of his races. He's just a pleasure to watch!

"The Liar",

     Are you crying "Uncle" yet?, lol...

Okay Draynay:

The group of older male horses that you listed have won a total of (5) graded stakes on dirt between them so far this year (two G-1).  I don’t exactly consider that a strong representation of the handicap division.  Maybe you do, but I don’t.

Added to the horses that Cleone listed (Riva Ridge, West Coast Scout, Key To The Mint, Kennedy Road, Cougar II), here are five more.  They included graded wins only.  Keep in mind that in 1972, no races were graded, and the graded system introduced in 1973 was pretty stingy.  I’ll only give those that are males 4 y-o and up and must have a minimum of two graded wins.

• Truimphant……Stars & Stripes…G-2…1-1/8M; Donn Hdcp…G-3…1-1/8M

• Kings Bishop……Fall Hwt….G-3…6F; Carter Hdcp…G-2---7F

• Tentam (Dirt Only)……Governor Stks…G-1…1-1/8M; Toboggan…G-3…6F; Met Mile…G-1…1M

• Prove Out……Jockey Club Gold Cup…G-1…2M; Woodward…G-1…1-1/2M

• Quack……San Barnardino…G-2…1-18M; California Stakes…G-1…1-1/16M

That makes a total of ten multi graded stakes winners that won numerous other graded stakes in other years and quite a few ungraded stakes.  Some of them also won stakes on grass which are not included.  The depth of handicap stakes division in the seventies was always fairly deep and consistent.  There are others not included on this list…..

Tiznowbaby I changed my mind on Colonel John the minute he won a stakes race on Turf.  I don't care what anyone says if you can win stakes on all 3 surfaces and earn over a million you have my respect.

And Curlin winning HOY over Big Brown is a joke most know it but won't admit it. But in 1973 and 2008 you can get your butt whipped 3 times and still be HOY. Mike Relva...dude ! you are an angry funny little man. Lol....

colettemarie - I am so thankful there are people like you out there!!! You made my day.

Draynay:

Your rants and put-downs make you come across as a person who has something to prove.

Most adults try to avoid leaving such an impression.

STILL love Summer Bird in Travers vs all comers! Give him a track he can close on and he'll love that 1 1/4.....STILL think it'll be Big Z/Rachel in Beldame---I KNOW they want to dirt her, after all it's not their fault they changed to synthetic tracks, so no hard feelings, Cali racing but it's off to Belmont, we go....that is what I DO if she's mine---I want to dirt her/I fear no horse, how could ya if you're unbeaten.....Mine That Bird will be around for years, I think he'll turf/think he may even be a miler with one fast kick...think Col John should kick some Belmont Booty in Woodward....Seeing some nice two year olds at Del Mar, 1:05 and change is very respectible...Love those two fillies, but it's tough to compare them to horses from the 70's, which was the magic decade...for racing....for movies, too...Secretariat, The Bid, Slew, Affirmed/Alydar, Forego...Robert Shaw in Jaws---those were the best!

Some Opinions:

1973 dirt horses vs. 2009 dirt horses...ugh!!!  No comparison, sorry Dray but your argument is a bit ridiculous on this one.  Cleone, Nice job, I will add the excellent 3-year-olds Desert Vixen and Sham to your list.  I love Rachel, but she did not have the competition that Secretariat had.

She did, however, already run against at least as tough competition as what Personal Ensign did Lazmannick.  Her schedule was carefully orchestrated and her compertition was on the weak side.  I know, she beat Winning Colors twice, but after the Derby, Winning Colors record was 2 wins and 2 seconds in her final 13 races.  There were a lot of less than stellar fields in the rest of Personal's resume.  Conversely, Lady's Secret's schedule was extremely difficult, but remember she lost 20 out of her 45 races.  Take your pick.  Since Ruffian, there are no fillies or mares that have much on Rachel and that is if she never runs again.  Arguably the best female horses in America in the past 30 years, until now, have been Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign, and Princess Rooney.  All of whom flourished at the age of four.  It's scary to think where Rachel could be next year!

Another great post Gobin, thank you!

The best American horses of this decade would include:

Tiznow

Point Given

Smarty Jones

Ghostzapper

Afleet ALex

Azeri

Curlin

Barbaro

Bernardini

Invasor

Rachel Alexandra

Zenyatta

Who would you pick?

To ALB:  That's what I thought also.  Put Chantal Sutherland on MTB.  Are Chip Woolley and the current owners ready to admit that being male chauvinists might be hurting MTB?

FREETEX

Great post,you nailed it

ABZ:

For the total package, including the emotional component as well as sheer accomplishment, I would pick Smarty Jones.

For sheer accomplishment, I would pick Tiznow and Rachel Alexandra.

Barbaro will always be in a class by himself.

SOLIDERCOURSE

I enjoy your posts,you illustrate a lot of class. Several could learn from you,especially one that comes to mind.

ABZ...I like your choices for best of the decade. Invasor is my choice for #1. I would add Rags to Riches. The sad thing is that most of them had such short careers and so much potential to be truly Great.

I'm boxing Tiznow/Smarty jones/ Big Brown!!!...CA--CHING!!

I was there, '73 was way weak for older males! Cougar was old and mortal...Riva Ridge was in and out....Key to The Mint was done....Kennedy Road was over rated....the best one, Quack, was also beset by injury---This year I think the older horses are ok/ think Colonel John is the real deal...also expect more talent from Europe for Classic on the turf-like pro ride....

Collette Marie, you make me feel almost ashamed.  The most I do is sponsor a retired horse, give to horse charities, and write letters to the Congress and Senate regarding the Mustangs and horse slaughter.  Really, not enough.

Oh, to have my own retired claimer, unsound.  I am serious.  One to love and take care of,  maybe someday.

Greg J  and Tim G, you are the greatest, please know that.

As to Greg J's question, Pressious Passion, all the way.  It will happen.

Oh, and to guess who, the horse of the year will be Quality Road.  Watch and learn.

Mine That Bird, the people's horse, many races of guts, fortitude, and resolve.  What more could any fan ask?

Tiznow ? No. 1 ? He only won 8 races and he is No. 1 ? Placing him above Rachel is laughable. Placing him above Point Given is a crime.

Mike Relva:

Thanks again, Mike. I try to keep it simple. And I love this family.

Matthew W... thank you, thank you, thank you for telling the truth.  

Soldier Course, I agree with you - her ears are down, her head is down and her eyes look tired. Quite a bit different from pre-race.

JCRobinson:

Thank you for the compliment. Great post on your part as well. I totally agree. NO horse has ever been perfect. There are holes on the resume of EVERY horse that has ever run. No horse can fulfill EVERY requirement.

ABZ...I'd add St. Liam, Commentator, and Pleasantly Perfect to your list and drop Afleet Alex, Smarty Jones, and Barbaro. The latter 3 had some great races at the beginning of their 3 yr. old season, but I think you need more to be a candidate for horse of the decade.

Thanks for your opinions on The Million for this weekend.  Jason, I plan to be at the track Friday too, but I'll try to read your blog later that night.  The Liar, besides the favorite, who do you like in the Million Saturday?  And besides the favorite, who do you like in the Beverly D.?  Thanks in advance.

and yes, have to back up my box with Invasor, a truly good horse, won on the outside against a huge rail-bias in Breeders Cup over Bernardini--THAT makes him truly tested/truly proven, like Tiznow...

Laz:

I have to side with Gobin. Personal Ensign defeated males ONCE, when she was 4, and defeated only 2 males in that race.  Lady's Secret won 1 race against males as well, also the Whitney. What was the quality of that Whitney field? Ends Well and Fuzzy ran 2nd and 3rd in the race, hardly Hall of Famers.  In her other 3 races vs. males that year, Lady's Secret was beaten 1.25 lengths by Garthorn in the Met Mile, beaten 3.5 lenghts by Roo Art in the Iselin, and beaten 4.75 lengths by Precisionist in the Woodward. So, she batted only .25 against males, and lost 20 of her 45 career races.

Having looked back at the pps of all the great fillies and mare of the 20th century, it is striking how few of them were able to defeat males consistently. Gallorette won a number of big races over males in her career(after the age of 3), but lost far more of those matchups vs. males than she won, and in 72 career races only won 21 times.  Shuvee was certainly a great mare, defeating males twice in the Jockey Club Gold Cup(at age 4 and 5) while having won the Triple Tiara at 3, but she lost 28 of her 44 career races. Ruffian or Go For Wand, although undisputedly brilliant,  never defeated males. Ruffian, for her part, never even beat older females. Busher, the 45' Horse of the Year, is generally considered to be the standard for the past 60 years when it comes to 3 year old fillies defeating males. Yet, even she beat males "only" 4 times, losing to males on 2 other occassions. Having defeated males in 2 grade 1 races, Rachel is ALREADY in an exclusive and historic club.

Do I think all the female racehorses I just listed are not great? Absolutely not! Lady's Secret was definitely an all-time great. Laz, I think you were very honest in one of your posts last night when you admitted that you probably set too high standards for greatness when it comes to current horses, and that in 20 years you will likely be defending Rachel's position of greatness when some new darling comes onto the scene.  I think that is very perceptive on your part, and I respect your honesty.

As I have repeated, I don't think we, as a blog, should spend too much more time debating Rachel's precise place in history, and whether she is BETTER than a Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret. However, I believe she does BELONG with them, even if she still may be slightly below them.

The Brooklyn Handicap is a minor stakes race?  I'm sure the NYRA will be shocked to hear it.  Riva Ridge set a North American record for the distance (1 3/16 in 1:52 2/5) in winning the Brooklyn.  He also won the Mass Cap, which is in MASSACHUSETTS (hence the name), not New York.  I'll give you the Stuyvesant, which is a grade 3 race today, and is indeed run in New York.  

Oh, Riva Ridge was also second in the Marlboro Cup, which means he beat Cougar II, Kennedy Road, Key to the Mint, and others.  And he probably ran it in 1:46 4/5, or 1:47 flat, as he was three and a half lengths back of the winner, who set a world record of 1:45 1/5 in that race.  Not too shabby.  

But you go on and believe what you want.  :)

Soldier Course,

     I saw the pictures and i saw her gallop out, and come back after the race and still never thought she was tired. When Calvin was hugging her, and she was getting water put on her she closed her eyes in enjoyment, IMO, not out of tiredness. My horse gets that same expression if he's getting hosed off, even if i havent ridden that day, just because he's enjoying the feel of that water. I also read that she came back real well, i think Steve Haskin commented on it in his artical that she looked fantastic when he visited her after the race, like it hardly took a thing out of her. I never thought at all she was tired.

Ranagulzion:

IF Quality Road were to win ALL the races you listed, then yes he probably will deserve some serious HoY consideration. With Rachel, however, we are not dealing with IFs but with what has already occurred. It is not a question of IF Rachel defeats males in 2 grade 1 races, IF she wins the Preakness, IF she wins the Haskell, IF she wins the Kentucky Oaks by 20, IF she wins the Mother Goose by 19, IF she wins 7 stakes races; she has actually accomplished all this already.

Quality Road is a talented horse with alot of potential, but he has won only 1 grade 1 race, and 2 grade 2 races.  He has SO much work to do to become a legit HoY contender that discussions now are just speculative.

ABZ

(First)…Ghostzapper:

• Lifetime 128 Beyer

• Set BC Classic 1-1/4M record 1.59.02

• World’s top rated horse in 2004 & N/A HOY 2004

• Met Mile 1.33.1

• Tom Fool 1.20.2…7F

• Iselin…1.46.3…1-1/8M

• Beat St. Liam in a head to head duel (St. Liam 2005 HOY)

• BC Classic field one of strongest for the event.

• Won major races at 6.5F…7F…1M…1-1/8M…1-1/4M

• Defeated Azeri although it was generally considered she was not at her best and was past her prime.

(Second)…Invasor:

All those wins and only the one loss and he defeated one of the horses on the list in Bernardini

Tiznow:

Two BC Classics says enough.

Honourable mention to all the rest.  It is a tough field and I don’t think that there is much separating it.  I would not pick one of the fillies/mares to win against this group, but they wouldn’t finish last either..

I agree-RA looked tired.  I thought it was odd that Borel broke out the stick after she was well clear of SB & Munnings.  Had she faced QR or I Want Revenge before they were injured and beat them-I might have conceded that she indeed was the best 3 year old. As for Horse of the Year, I don't know.  I still think Zenyatta could run her down at 10 furlongs.   Zenyatta just has to sit in Calfornia and wait for the world to come to her at the Breeders Cup.  I wouldn't leave either just to try and beat RA.  A lot has been discussed about RA not running on artificial surfaces.  Lightening may strike me, but I think Curlin would have still lost even if he had run on dirt, turf, or concrete.  He was not the same horse compared to his Cup win in 2007.  In his race prior to the Breeders Cup, he had barely beaten only a so so field.  Real champions like Secretariat win no matter what surface they are on.  If Zenyatta faces the boys(esp. if the Europeans send over their best) & wins at the Breeders Cup-RA's present wins in the Preakness & Haskell would pale in comparison.

draynay, first what makes you think that kensi is going to win the travers, he will probably finish 4th or 5th with a good trip. is just going to be a repeat of last year when macho again won the jim dandy. what would you do if rachel do run in travers (which is not going to happen) but isntead of quality road beating her the "derby mud winner" beats her. that would put him in the radar at least for 3yrs old championship plus bragging rights and the could talk all the garbage they want about the preakness.

Obviously I should not be allowed to post late at night!  I'm going to have to correct myself again.

Riva Ridge's time in the Marlboro Cup was either 1:45 4/5 or 1:46 flat (not 1:46 4/5 or 1:47 flat as I said in my earlier post).  Three and a half lengths would be three and a half fifths, more or less.  Hmm.  I'd take a horse that could run a mile and an eighth in 1:46 flat any day.  

Dray,

    I may agree with you on Rachel, but how on earth do you feel that BB did enough to win HOTY? Do not get me wrong, he IMO for what he accomplished during the spring, and the heart he showed during summer and fall, IMO shows he's great, but please he did not eclipse Curlin who raced against all challenger in open company on all three surfaces in one year and took on the world twice in one year and beat them by a ton the first time. He went to the Classic just to make everyone happy, and yes your horse did not make it, but honestly as i posted above then he's not good enough. You have to have the whole package, and yes BB lasted a long time w/o the soundenss part which is why i say great, but in comparison to Curlin who never except for the last race of his career ran out of the money, or worse than second that year before the Classic, he's just not as good. Curlin proved that he could race pretty much anywhere, and yes he could race on two surfaces, because grade one placed ain't to shabby, especially when your second to a BC turf winner and beat another. He proved himself over and over against anyone who wanted to challenge him. BB race in open company once in an ungraded stakes. As i said i have the utmost respect for BB and what he did, heck i just wrote my own version of an artical on him, kinda like a tribute, but to say he not winning HOTY over Curlin when he never raced in the Classic and only raced open company once against a field of horses that were grade three at best does not unseat what Curlin accompished at all.

Laz,

    Thank you for what you said in your last post in response to my 4:22pm post. I wish i could say more, but right now i'm dead beat and would probably butcher any spelling or grammar and ramble on and on, lol. So Thank you, a very big thanks and what your post said means a lot to, shall have to sufice for now. Now i'm going to turn in before i fall asleep at the computer.

I really hope Life Is Sweet gets the jump on Zenyatta this Sunday (I know it seems unlikely).  She's such a classy runner, and is totally deserving, plus, her owner isn't afraid to face anyone!  I for one am rooting for her to pull the upset!!

SoldierCourse, thank you for your response to my question. You are a kind man. O.k. I couldn't locate the slide show BUT I was able to find a post-race video of Rachel walking back to the barn on youtube. I totally get what you were saying about her looking tired. Complete exhaustion came to mind as I watched it. You couldn't miss it. I really hope they give her a good long rest. That was one tired girl. it almost looked like they were going to have to pick her up and carry her.

Colette Marie, there is a special place in heaven for you for taking care of those horses.

Lazmannick, you didn't ruffle my feathers. I just think we should ALL agree that no one wants to see a horse get hurt, suffer or be euthanized if they blog here. I do mean all of us. None of us would be here if we didn't love horses. True, there are a few that are uncomplimentary about MTB (and I don't agree with that one bit) but that is a whole different kettle of fish. We are talking apples and oranges.

Jason,

I don't think you have enough wisdom in the game (yet)to be making statements this early about "Horse of the Year" honors.

If Rachel  Alexandra ducks the Breeders Cup, she will have a hard time winning Horse of the Year.

Great Fillies rarely beat Great Mares. The percentages throughout history have always favored the mares.

Zenyatta will be racing against the males in the Breeders Cup Classic and the Clark Handicap. This is what John has mapped out.

You need to check yourself. You get a little too excited sometimes and get caught up in the moment.

Best Regards,

Dave Johnson

Comparing horseracing circa 1973 to 2009 is useless! It's a completely different game now. Completely! It's just like baseball-- Back in the day, pitchers threw complete games, it was expected. They pitched every fourth day.Players worked real jobs during the offseason because the money wasn't there like it is today. If someone had a "bad" shoulder, it was over for them. No surgery, just retirement.

Now, pitchers throw every fifth day and log 1/2 the innings they used to. Complete games? The best pitchers throw a handful every year. They are limited by pitch counts.Five innings is a quality start. Players now, because of medical advances, can have 1 or 2 "scopes" during the season and still compete.In spring training, they came to camp out of shape and needed six weeks of hard work to be ready for the season. Now, they are expected to be in shape all year long because of the money they are paid.

In 1973 racing, the average horse started 16 times a year. Even some stakes horses sometimes ran a week apart.

In 1978, D. Wayne Lukas ran Effervescing on July 4 in the American Handicap. He won for Al Yank and Lukas ran him back five days later to win the Citation, both at Hollywood.

In 1982, Conquistador Cielo broke Stop The Music's track record in the Met Mile as a 3-year-old and Woody Stephens ran back one week later and beat Derby winner Gato del Sol by 13 lengths in the mile and one-half Belmont. Think either of those feats would happen today?

Horses HAD to run at 2 if they were to get ready for the Derby and then had to have enough preps at 3 to be battle tested. Now, horses are brought to the Derby off 3-4 lifetime starts and two-month layoffs. Both baseball and racing are completely different games now and some Draynays-come-latelies have no clue. Are baseball players today better than those in the 50s, 60s and 70s? No way. Neither are thoroughbreds. Not the way the breed has evolved. Drugs and money have spoiled both games. That's progress.

Better than Chantal Sutherland for Mine That Bird would be Rosemary Homeister. She knows how to hang back and win and win and win.

Mathew w

I read your post.  I think 73 was a fairly good year for the older horses......there were certainly better years before and after.  However, it couldn't have been too bab, two of them managed to defeat Big Red.

Regards

I believe that, had the better 3-year-olds have been in the Kentucky Derby, the outcome would have been way different.  But as contrary to what Rechelle said, Mine That Bird is NOT an inconsistent horse!  He has been off the board in only 3 of his 12 starts.  That means he has come in 1ST, 2ND, OR 3RD in 9 of his races.  That's pretty consistent to me.  He may not win every time, but that's okay.  He is a gutsy little gelding with lots of heart.  I like to see him run whether or not he wins.  I also like how his trainer doesn't make excuses for him. "We got beat." That's what Mr. Woolley said after the WV Dearby.  He is very true.  I personally like Mike Smith better for Mine That Bird.  Once he figures out how the horse runs (I think he figured part of him out in the WV Derby.  He admitted that he used too much of him on the backstrech), I'm sure Mine That Bird will win some more races.  Maybe not grade 1's, but I am pretty sure he will win again.  Unless he gets injured, he will be running next year and probably the next, so who knows what he will become?  As for Rachel Alexandra, I believe we are witnessing one of the best fillies of all time run.  (Please don't get offended, I said one of the best.)  It's amazing how she comes from so close off the pace to win.  Despite all the weak-boned, chicken-legged, fragile thoroughbreds we are producing today, she was bred and built right.  I hope we will get to see her run next year and even 2 or 3 years from now.  It is scary to think she is still a baby in a sense.  Only think of what she will be when she grows up!

GunBow:

Amen.  I'm just giving my opinion.

Cleone:

Right on.  I think that people don't realize how important the New York races were back in those days.  Good post.

Draynay:

With regards to today's handicap horses, other than Einstein and Col. John (turf), I think I would have chosen a few others ahead of the ones you're touting.  In my humble opinion, I would definetly take the class of '73 older horses against tthe class of '09.

Now "the liar" is back on the big ole browneye 2008 HOY crap? big brown wasn't even the best 3 yr old last year much less HOY. Raven's Pass and Henrythenavigator were both much better 3 yr olds and the real HOY was far superior as well. If big brown hadn't ducked Curlin and beat him that may have been a different story. As it turned out the big ole browneye's feet became his excuse. I'll never be convinced that he didn't duck the Classic when it came up too tough for him to win.

Jason it is possible that Curlin won HOY BECAUSE he came out for Breeders Cup---if he eschewed the Cup Zenyatta might have won for her 7 for 7 v fillies---and Big Brown had an awesome season as well! Skipping the cuip may backfire on Jess this time--I DON'T think either will beat the older males as it hasn't been done since '68, fillies over olrder males at 1 1/4...but a good run by Big Z would place her right there for HOY--a trip out to Churchill for the Clark would open the door ( a second time) for a meeting with Rachel---it's far from over!

I'm with you Jason....Rachel will be HoY, she has done enough already.  She has seven wins already.  Looking over her HoY competition, none of the others have won more than 3 races.  That is a big difference.

Paula Higgins:

The Slideshow is on the homepage at bloodhorse.com under "Photo Galleries" - Rachel Alexandra's Haskell. By the way, I'm a gal, not a guy. :)

LDP:

Three or four of us agree that Rachel looked tired after the race, at least from the photos and videos.

I'm not a horseman, so I don't know exactly what to look for in assessing fatigue. I just recall reading about how exhausted Smarty Jones and Affirmed looked after their Belmont Stakes. Rachel's post-race Haskell photos brought all that to mind.

I hope you are right.

Draynay,

That list of the best American horses so far of the 21st century was in no particular order, if you have been reading my posts, you would know whom I prefer...Rachel Alexandra.  By the way, I would take Invasor as my second selection.  Quite a record he compiled.

Freetex,

      Thank You!, Right back at you with the same thoughts!...

    I can't wait for this weekend!  Another great Weekend of racing...

Commentator or Dry Martini? Flashing or Cat moves?

Black Mamba or Dynaforce?

     Two things I am pretty sure of, Precious Passion and the Speed Demon, Zensational...

Tim G.: I had never heard that story about Winning Colors, but I love it.  I feel the exact same way about Mine That Bird.  Who cares if he doesn't win.  He won America's race, the one all trainers and owners dream of winning.  And for the "cinderella" horse to win just secures the fact that he doesn't have to win.  He has all ready found a place in everybody's, well atleast most people's heart.  The minute after the Derby was over, my friend called me and asked if I had seen the race.  We just went on and on about how amazing it was, how the little guy overcame the blue-bloods and the sheiks to win.  He doesn't have to win, he's in history books now.

hmmm.  Curlin and Zenyatta was a tough call last year.  I think it came down to the races (challenges) accepted by one and not the other.  IMO, Zenyatta should have attempted to race against males a long time ago.

Soldier Course,

    I wasn't trying to sound like a know it all, just pointing something out and interjecting my thoughts. So if i came across that way i'm sorry.

At this point in the year, it's all a guess for HOTY, but there's no reason we can't have fun with our opinions.

I'm always interested in watching the "political" factors that come into play from time to time, like early retirement, unpopular connections, skipping the Breeders' Cup, etc.

Dave Johnson:

Don't think our host deserves that.

Jason: Not only does Jess Jackson excell on the p.r. end of the business, I'll bet he's good in the stock market. Two years ago, he stepped up and bought Curlin after a maiden win and then this year  buying 'Rachel' days before her Preakness win. We'll see if he has the patience for the breeding game. That's a whole other story. At his age, I think not. Most 79-year-olds don't even buy green bananas.  

Greg J,

I think the Americans will have a good day At Arlington

Precious Passion over Gio Ponti.

Pure Clan dominates.

Black Bear Island will be the only Euro winner.

At the Spa...

I would love to see Smooth Air finally win a big one...such a nice horse.

It is hard to look past Cat Moves.

Cleone the Marlboro Cup was a made up race by the Phillip Morris company and was suppose to feature a match race but both horses loss badly so they decided to add in a few others.  The made for tv event featured a scraped lightning fast track that was made SO FAST the track supervisor refused to be part of the event.

Josue555 I started to read your question but you lost me when you started talking about "the claimer" winning again so try me later.

LDP 2008 will always be the year of Big Brown.  People will remember his 3 amazing wins in the Florida Derby, Kentucky Derby, and Preakness.  What 3 races will you remember of Curlin's last year ?

Dave Johnson...HAAA HAAA HAAA you must be new to the racing game.  Zenyatta is going to take on boys in the Classic?  You must be from California and in pain... lol.. stay away from those "coffee shops" in San Francisco.

zenyatta13:

Whether you're a horse or a person, there's just something eternal about the Kentucky Derby.

There's the battle for tickets, the prices, the crowds, the traffic, the food (there's food?), the view (there's a view?), the aching feet, and on and on. But I've never heard anyone say they're sorry they went.

You want to start a conversation? Just tell someone you've been to the Kentucky Derby.  

I've been to the Derby several times Soldier Course, and you are right...there is nothing quite like it.  50% Horse Racing, 50% Fun, and 50% Craziness!

LDP:

You didn't come across as a know-it-all. You have a horse, for goodness sakes, so you would know what to look for. The rest of us who only saw the photos could be dead wrong, especially if Steve Haskin saw her after the race and said she looked fine.

Is that Dave "And DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME!" Johnson?

"The Liar",

     I don't know, If that is the same "Dave Johnson" I am thinking about, I honestly don't think he is "New to the racing game", If it is the same I am thinking of, Ever here of the most famous saying in Horse Racing?...

"Down the Stretch they Come!!!"

Jason, Is that the same "Dave Johnson" that left that wonderful comment to you?

Dray,

    I remember his two in Dubai, especially that World Cup, which was the same day as the FL Derby. And his first race back, the Stephen Foster. I also remember his consistancy, no matter where or what he raced on. As i said i know how great BB was last year, but when you get down to it Curlin was the better horse. He was the WHOLE package, speed, stamina, heart, and durability. The first three i just listed also make a brilliant and great horse, which is what BB had, but he did not have the durability at all, if he had i'd even go on to say if he'd raced longer he was greater than Curlin. Thing is he wasn't more durable and didn't race longer. You take BB and put him in Curlin's 3yr old year i really don't think he would've made it through the TC, just because of his feet. I think he would've been top three in the Derby, but not beating SS or HS. The Preakness i think he probably would've won, and then he wouldn't have even gone in the Belmont. You take Curlin and put him in BB's 3yr old year i believe we have a TC winner and a superstar bigger than BB was. Curlin was greater period, no matter what way you spin it.

ABZ:

I've had Grandstand seats near the far turn the last few times I have been to the Derby, so I have gotten to see the horses coming out of the backstretch into the turn and beyond. What a thrill this is!

My favorite moment is when the last horse is being loaded in the gate, and the crowd just goes crazy. TV never seems to catch this excitement.  

Twitter's been attacked by a hacker. This Internet stuff can sure get scary.

RACHEL IS GOOD BUT LET US NOT FORGET WHAT EASY GOER DID HIS THREE YEAR OLD SEASON.THE GOTHAM,SWALE,BELMONT,WOODMEMORIAL,WHITNEY,TRAVERS,WOODWARD,JOCKEYCLUBGOLDCUP AT 1 1/2MILE AND WAS A NOSE AND A NECK FROM BEING(BAD RIDES)IMMORTAL....

GUN BOW,

Speculation can be fun in this game.  Ask the "Derby Dozen Master" Mr Steve Haskin about that.  I think that speculating on an end of season rampage by a phenomenal horse like Quality Road isn't likely to get anyone "shafted" (sorry Mr Haskin).  Its funny how sparring with Draynay over Rachel Alexandra vs Quality Road has a divisive effect.  I find myself now rooting for "el numero uno" Quality Road to upset Rchel in the HOTY race (if JJ insists on skipping the Breeders Cup).    

I was in Dubai just recently. Speaking to many of my brothers I brought up the name Big Brown. They all looked at me and asked, who is this Big Brown? I brought up the name Curlin and they bowed, smiled, and said, "now there was a great one".

From there I went to Europe and speaking to friends brought up the name Big Brown. They looked at me and said your "tenderfoot" couldn't carry Raven's Pass or Henrythenavigators bridle on dirt, turf, or plastic. I brought up the name Curlin and they said "thank god for plastic track. On the dirt he was untouchable".

sheik

You're amusing.  You sure you aren't Conan in your other life?

sheik,

    Love that post. I believe that bit about the plastic, on dirt, he would've whipped everyone. Those in Dubai should bow and smile, he came over and whipped those in the DWC and did it with ease. What a great horse he was.

Sheik what are you talking about ? Did a little oil find its way into your drinking water.  Big Brown was huge in the Florida Derby, Kentucky Derby, and Preakness and unlike Curlin won on turf.  What did Curlin do he beat up on Wanderinboy and Brass Hat.  When he faced tough horses on turf and poly he got spanked. And you dare bring up Raven's Pass ?? The horse that won just 2 races last year ? Get out of here I think the oil has reached your brain...lol.

Gunbow,

I really don't understand your statement that Quality Road is unproven past 9 furlongs, yet you are gung-ho about Rachel being in the stratosphere when she just hung on at 9.5 furlongs.  I think Rachel has gotten many clear headed thinkers positively goofy.  No offensive intended, you know I am one of your greatest supporters because you can take the heat without getting your feathers ruffled.  When are you doing a guest blog?  

You know, I was never really interested in the BigZ vs Rachel showdown, but now I actually want to see if Rachel can hold on against the freight train that is BigZ's monster stride, at 10 furlongs.  The main thing is God should bless them both with good health and soundness.

Sheik:

That was my favorite post so far, love it!

Shiek

You just got an earful from the LITTLE MAN.

Dray yet again you do not make any sense. You state that Curlin got spanked by tough horses on poly and turf. Then you dog Raven's Pass in the very next sentence. Make up your mind dude. As always you only input data that assists in your argument although 90% of the time it is contradicting. Really who did Big Brown beat on turf I'm sure it wasn't a caliber of a turf horse as Red Rocks. Besides he didn't get spanked he barely lost. I got a million that says Curlin stud carrier is way beter than Big Brown.

DRAYNAY

I'll give you credit for your last post regarding BB.I agree w/you a hundred per cent.

SHEIK

If you don't think BB is a superhorse,then you're kidding yourself! Especially with the health issues this horse had during most of his career.

Wow, i didn't know that running second to a BC Turf winner by 2 lengths counted as getting spanked, espcially considering how oddly the race was run. I also didn't know that finishing less than 3 lengths behind the some of the best Euro's counted as that either. If Curlin got spanked facing that competition then i wonder what you call what happened in last years Belmont. Maybe getting your butt handed to you?

Mike,

    I feel BB was a great horse, and a potential super horse because of what he did, and how he did it, meaning his feat. But for Dray to say that for Curlin to win HOTY of BB was a joke is rediculous. As i said i respect him i wrote a tribute to the colt because i didn't feel he was getting the respcet he deserved, but to say that was just dead wrong. I said earlier if you swapped the two putting BB in Curlin's crop, and Curlin in BB, there is no doubt in my mind that Curlin would've won the TC and gone on to be considered one of the all time greats. BB would've been at the top of the crop, but i don't think he would've made it even into the Belmont, because of his feet. I say potential super horse because BB had it all but not the soundness and durability, and to be a true super horse that is what a horse needs. If BB had that i would actually go to say BB was better, but he didn't. Curlin could run on anywhere and he'd come with his game face on no matter where or  what you raced him on. For how hard he was campaigned he did a fantastic job, the horse traveled at least 15000 miles in one year, racing his butt off. His three year old year he ran nine races six of those were grade ones and not once did he run off the board. BB i do not think could've handled such a season against such cometition. Brilliant, captivating, courageous, and great are the words i use to discribe BB. Curlin gets those plus durable and ultra consistant. That is what makes or breaks the deal, and that is were Curlin won.

Brian I doubt if you have a million. It requires the ability to count to a million before you know your a millionaire.  Brian before putting your foot in your mouth check Ravens Pass record last year stack it next to Big Browns and then wonder why you even bother.

Dray,

    Considering RP ran against HTN in most of his starts, who was probably thought to be Europes best 3yr old miler, it is not surprising that his record is not as good on paper as BB. BB raced against far weaker competion, and both RP and HTN could whip any of the horses he beat in the Monmouth Stakes.

Dray:

Maybe Brian can't count to a million, but I bet he can count to one.  SO can I.

By my count it's:

Raven's Pass...1 BC Classic win

Big Brown...0 BC Classic win

Gee LAZMANNICK add 1 more finger and you have the TOTAL number of wins for Ravens Pass ALL YEAR.  Curlin got beat by a 1 race winning miler.  Geez.. Come on guys be serious. Its laughable.  Curlin got HOY for beating NO ONE in Dubai and Wanderin Boy, and Brass Hat. Geez

Gee Little Man

I still only need one finger when I'm talking to you.

Finally !  You admit it ! I'm number 1, I'm number 1 !!!

And dray who did BB actually beat? O yeah that would be about nobody. He matured quicker than all in his generation, and if he were to race them today he would have his hands full. Also Curlin went in open company grade ones all year, aint his fault nobody wanted to run against him. BB in his last couple of races ducked competition. Curlin, ducked nobody, he danced every dance that is what duability is, and that is why BB couldn't ever race with him HS or SS. RP was no miler, he loved the added distance of 1 1/4, which is why he did so well. You are w/o a doubt a sore looser, at least i admitt my mistakes when proven wrong. If there is anyone on this entire blog that need to learn to grow up the most it is you.

LDP it's not your fault.  I blame Jason for letting your last post on this page.  Honestly, it may be the worst post I have ever seen. He danced every dance ?  You call Big Browns competition weak yet you don't address the losers Curlin beat last year.  I could go on but I am going to ask you to try again and this time think about what you want to say because things like, "BB in his last couple of races ducked competition." How does showing up in the Haskell prove he was ducking competition?  By the way how did Curlin do in the Haskell ?

Dray:

Go to bed and get some sleep.  You need to nurture that big brain of yours.  Tomorrow we're going to teach you to count to two.

Dray,

    I did address it when i said it is not his fault the competition was scared to face him. BB raced against a weak group of 3yr olds at the time in every race but his last. Even in his last, though he showed heart, Proudinsky and Shakis though very honest horses were not that good. Curlin raced in open company grade ones all year it is not his fault the competition didn't show up when he did. They had the choice to find better with BB but never did. O by the way how did BB do in HOTY voting, or the Belmont, or the Classic? Oh wait he hardly received any votes in HOTY, wonder why that was, not. He didn't even finish the Belmont because he unproffesionally spooked and ran into a maiden and got his own shoe dislodged, so that was his fault he lost. O and in the Classic he didn't make cause why, what have i been preaching, o you say his feet finally gave out. That means he's not sound or durable. By the way i'd love to see BB run in the 07 Haskell, he would've lost. You just can't stand to loose.

Jason,

I'm too old and have ate too much humble pie in this sport.

No bet for me.

I just enjoy watching these two equine athletes.

Best Regards,

Dave Johnson

Draynay,

I may agree with you on Rachel, and QR, (surprisingly)....but when will you ever give up on Big Brown vs. Curlin?

Curlin will go down in history as the superior of the two no matter how much you hate to admit it. Two time HOTY's are never forgotten. Big Brown will be remembered for a very good three yr old campaign in a weak crop, period.

To compare BB's lifetime competition to Curlin's is an absolute joke. To compare their lifetime achievements is an absolute joke.

To compare their durability is no contest. BB will breed fragility sort of like Unbridled's Song, Curlin will breed strength.

To compare their best Beyers is not even close.

Who do you think will get into the Racing Hall of Fame first? LOL

In fact, it may take BB 20 years to get in...if he gets in.

And how you going to like it when the horse you love to hate gets to mate with your love, Princess Rachel? LOL

So Please..when it comes to BB vs. Curlin...it's time to give up and move on.

LDP you and Saratoga AJ can call last years group weak but the FACTS do not support that.  Stick with FACTS.

Dray,

    Facts do support that at the time BB faced those horses that they were weak. Maybe Jason needs to hold another bet and this time when you loose he can make it that you stay off for an entire year. That might put you in your place.

Guys, don't make fun of Big Brown. He ran a great Belmont - it took the entire field to beat him.

______________________________

Okay, seriously though. It comes down to accomplishments since Curlin and Big Brown never have and never will race against each other.

And the FACTS between the two...

One of them has accomplished:

- 7 G1 wins

- 2007 Eclipse Champion 3YO Male

- 2007 Horse Of The Year

- 2008 Eclipse Champion Older Male

- 2008 Horse Of The Year

- Set a new North American earnings record on September 27, 2008.

And the other:

- 4 G1 wins

- 2008 Eclipse Champion 3YO Male

So, since the names were not given as to be objective, who has accomplished more?

_______________________________

"The BC Championship will be decided on Poly. A true champion can run on any surface."

draynay 05 Aug 2008 10:49 PM

"Champions show up on Championship days"

draynay 06 Aug 2008 12:00 PM

Remember that? Curlin did not win the 2008 BC Classic but he did show up. You can't argue with that or the accomplishments that were stated above. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't win races. Never has and never will.

End of Curlin v. Big Brown discussion.

I assume this is a case of covering all the bases, but Rachel Alexandra is being nominated to the Alabama, Travers, Personal Ensign, Woodward, and Pennsylvania Derby. Are they really considering the Alabama, Personal Ensign or Penn Derby?

HELLO LDP

How's your summer? I agree with Curlin being a "superhorse". I can't argue that point cause he truly was.

Zippy and the Sheik

Now there's a potent combination

Strong post Zippy!

Penn Derby is a Million bucks.  Why not?  Easy money.

Hey Mike,

    Well to be honest ever since July it has absoultely sucked. I got back off my injury, ready to go to work and my boss says nope sorry can't have you. This is after the doctor gave me the ok to work again. So now i'm trying to figure out what the heck i'm going to do the rest of my summer. Normally my horse is a good listener, but i'm sure by now he's getting annoyed at me coming out constantly in a bad mood. Now right now all i have to do is him and watch racing. I never thought i'd say this, but i can't wait for school. Senior year better be fun, lol. Sorry for my rant. I hope you relize i wasn't trying to be mean or start an argument in my post to you just pointing out Dray's stupidity. It's a shame that man brings out the worst in me on that subject, cause i do like BB, and i did just write something on him, just for fun, basicly saying he should get more respect. But it's kinda hard to make a case when you have someone who seems to be on Dutrow's payroll driving you up the wall. Anywho, i hope you've had a good summer, and hope your horses are doing well at the track. I can't wait for this weekend, personally i'm rooting for PP to pull that front running victory again. I like Zensational, too. The Hirsh should be a good race with Zen and LIS. If your betting i wish you luck, hopefully you win big, every penny counts today.

Just some facts:

-Rachel Alexandra is a monster and probably won't lose another race this year. Where will she run next? Who knows? But wherever she runs the result will be the same as the last seven times.  

-Zenyatta and Rachel will never meet each other and thats unfortunate. Zenyatta rules in California and has the luxury of the BC being run on her home turf for the 2nd consecutive year. There is no need to leave the state of California to try and win HOY. But she definitely needs to win the BC Classic and retire undefeated to be given that honor. Rachel can skip the BC and still be HOY because of her complete annihilation of every single horse she's run against this year(which if you want to be technical includes: Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, Big Drama, Munnings, Papa Clem, Pioneer of the Nile, and virtually every 3yo filly. I'm sorry if I can't name any that are relevant to racing right now but I'm sure you can't either.) I'm sure she'd probably win the Distaff or Classic no matter what surface it's run on; but I think that its good that she's not going. What genius decided to have the BC at Santa Anita 2 years in a row? Last year, numerous horsemen passed on the BC and that will be likely this year as well. The Breeders Cup has to realize when choosing a venue it has to be acceptable or else they'll keep losing out on horses like Rachel Alexandra and Commentator.

-On to the 3yo males. Mine that Bird isn't losing his luster. He just keeps losing races. Don't count the Preakness because that was a moral victory. tough loss in the Belmont where he moved to early and in the WV derby he moved to early. He'll probably be better in the BC Marathon rather than the classic. The 2 Best 3yo males in my opinion won't be seen until they are 4. DUNKIRK and I WANT REVENGE. Quality Road is great but the TRAVERS is going to be a tall order, especially with Kensei starting to come around and Summer Bird(who after watching him run in the Haskell is a serious BC classic contender). Also...can't wait for the Kings Bishop stakes. Munnings vs. Big Drama! Munnings will win simply because he's better but it will still be a good race. By the way...just because Munnings has only won sprint stakes and he's by a sprint champion doesn't mean he's just a sprinter. You'll take note of that next year.

-And one last thing...watch out from Stardom Bound in the ladies classic this year.

Big Will

Maybe you hit the nail on the head regarding the BC....at SA 2 years in a row.

A lot of horsement did pass itlas year.  Maybe the committee is trying to jam it down their throats...do it our way or else.

Just a thought......

I see alot of "numbers" people in these posts.

People don't realize how much slower synthetic racing is when it comes to speed figures.

Numbers on dirt are always "much" higher than synthetic racing. This will always be a "fact".

This year Jess Jackson has shown the public that he has learned from the past.

Jess Jackson is ducking the Breeders Cup because he learned from Curlin's mishap (last year). All those speed figures and the best horse in the world faltered at the 1/8th pole, Curlin was absolutely winded. When Curlin, returned to his groom he was exausted (blowing "extremely" hard).

This mare will make the filly look like an absolute fool if she shows up at Santa Anita this year. In fact, the filly will have a hard time placing in the money. Speed or "tactical" speed is not what you want on this track. This Pro Ride surface is nothing like Keeneland, Turfway and many of the other synthetic tracks in California. It will suck the life right out of you.

I know Pletcher is still saying Quality Road is going to the Travers but I am not buying it until the gate opens.  He will follow Rachel to the Woodward.  Who takes a horse from 6 1/2 to 1 1/4 ?

Draynay:

It's not up to Pletcher...Evans wants him in the Travers and that's where he will go. Plus you're talking twice the purse in the Travers...an extra half million $.

6 1/2 to 9 furlongs isn't a whole lot different than 6 1/2 to 10 anyway. Either way he stretches. The feeling here is he will win the Travers because he's the best 3 yr old colt in the country and always has been. If not for the two quarter cracks what might have been.........

If Quality Road is not ready to take on Rachel in the Woodward he is going to have problems with Kensei in the Travers.  Does the owner of Quality Road need the money?  If he has the horse why not go after Rachel ?  1 1/8th makes more sense and does more for him than the Travers.  I am still not buying it.

Saratoga AJ  there is no doubt who the best 3 year old in the country is the question Kensei and Quality Road will answer if they meet in the Travers is who is the second best 3 year old in the country.

Draynay..

I still predict it will be the Travers for QR as long as he's fit. Then it will be the JCGC, and BC Classic if he holds up with no more qtr. cracks. That's how I see it..lets see how it plays out. QR will race against Rachel only if Jackson decides to send her in the JCGC (assuming she wins the Woodward). The feeling here is if she wins the Woodward, it will be the Beldame and then a well deserved rest. And a 4yr old campaign before that date with Curlin. Just pray she stays healthy...one like this only comes around every 25+ years or so...if not 50.

And here's another thought for her next year....the Dubai World Cup? Just don't know much about that new surface they are installing.

Rachel goes to the Woodward and Beldame and she is done.  9 for 9 finishing one of the greatest 3 year old seasons by any horse ever.  There will be talk Saratoga AJ of getting the girls together for the Clark but Moss is not going to face Rachel.  The only way he would consider it is if she loses the Distaff.  With 4 weeks rest no horse has come close to catching Rachel and everyone knows it.