MTB a throw out? Is that because you don't think he's good enough or fit enough? I think he hits the board if he runs his race. If he's fit enough I think he would have  a legit shot to win. The one caveat is his throat issue.

Billy's Empire,

Just to respond from the last blog,

I had El Gato Malo last time out on the Turf as well. Huge overlay that day. But you can't get emotional in this game when you're playing with money. ;)

Champagne: How about a Dublin Aspire Ice Cold Box? I think Aspire will have a clean trip this time and be right on the flank of Dublin and hopefully wear him down by the time they get to the wire.

Let's Go Fatal Bullet, Beautician & Becrux!!!

If he doesn't hit the board I hope they do the right thing and rest him and get him ready for next year.

Shadwell-Yorktown(win)with Justenuffhumor (exacta box)

Dixiana-Hockley Win-place

Hockley -all exacta box

Champagne-Richard Dutrow Needs Longshot here-Homeboy Kris

Tiago-Briecat

Bet ALL OR ANY OF RICHARD DUTROW LONGshots this SAT

Parading is just too too old even with great setup in race-only a sure second

Jason.  Agree the MTB is a throw out along with CC who are both coming off lay offs.  This is a "tune-up."  And when is C-John going to win again?  I'm going all out longshot with Tres Baracchos in this crap shoot.

Bold Union looks fast but not Witty fast.  Carlsbad's only bad race was the San Clemente a mile on the turf.  This one is well traveled (running different surfaces) and is FAST.  She will be long gone...catch me if you can style.

I agree that the Breeder's Futurity is wide-open, and I think Backtalk could be beat by several conetnders, including Make Music for Me. I am putting Roman Invasion in my exotics.  

Cocoa Beach, Anabaa's Creation & Life is Sweet are all gonna take down Zenyatta's Pride tomorrow!!

I hope Colonel John is back in the Goodwood, but if not Gitano Hernando gets my money!

In the Goodwood I'm playing Parading and Colonel John in a superfecta box, having trouble deciding on which others to use.

Monzante is tempting because of the late pace rating.  But in

his best graded stakes he's carried significantly less weight than he will tomorrow so I'm not using him.  He's my only throw out so far.

I'm putting a "just in case" bet on the Euro mystery horse Gitano Hernando to win and also

considering him for my super box.

I'm playing Homeboykris across the board in the Champagne.  I expect Dublin will win, but the way Dutrow is talking up Homeboykris I figure he's worth a just in case bet, too.        

I'm not betting the Lady's Secret but hope Zenyatta wins.  Not betting the Breeders' Futurity quagmire either.

SEE the state legistative in Penn wants too Divert the slot money that goes for horse racing for something else

No TOO SLOTS

THEY SEE IN PENN THEY DONT NEED THE HORSES

no to slots

Was MTB's throat surgery a bigger issue than was made of it in the media?  Or, is another factor that hurts his chances is that he has been on a long layoff?

At any rate, MTB and Tiago will be in my Trifectas.

Householder,

Have you forgotten about Colonel John's win in the Wickker @ Del Mar on the turf?  He did have a terrible trip in the P. Classic, however he could have finished a bit closer...  His works say he is ready and I look for a valiant effort...

P.S.

I like Tizaqueena in the 1st Lady...

she is shortening up and I do believe she will hold on...

el Indy in the second at Keeneland, 7-1

TCA- Informed decision

First Lady- Forever Together

Futurity-Statley Victor

Turf Mile-Battle of Hastings/Tizdejavu

Woodford Stakes- Fort Prado

Goodwood- Col John

Lady S Zenyatta

Frizette Franny Freud

Champagne Dublin

Jason:  I agree regarding Parading.He'll be tough to beat with such circumstances,like I mentioned yesterday.Then I noticed Haskin's article afterwards.Funny. You were saying something about"great minds thinking alike" earlier this week?.. :}  j/k

Carlsbad should run them off their feet--it's a beautiful town also.

Good luck if people are trying to beat Zenyatta this weekend or in the BC.Won't happen.She's a rarity who just refuses to lose no matter what.Enjoy her,...and Those Dodgers!!  Destiny,baby,Destiny!

I agree that Tres Borrachos is worth a shot in this group.

When Zenyatta loses, will the draynays please have some class and not pile on....she is getting more and more vulnerable in every race.  If she wins, she should go to the Classic to lose with dignity intact.

Mr Shandler, I just watched your handicapping show for the first time...good show!

Freetex, I've seen horses take a big leap forward in their first start after the throat surgery.  I don't think it's a negative since they gave him ample recovery time.

Provided he's healthy I don't see why they should put MTB away for the year if he doesn't light the board tomorrow, as Draynay suggested.  Borel is inexperienced at SA and MTB is coming off a layoff so it will be a good prep regardless of finish IMO.

If MTB has a disappointing finish I think that gives them his best shot in the Classic.  Borel is at his best sneaking long shots up the rail because nobody is paying attention, but if MTB is impressive tomorrow there's no way Borel is getting a clean rail trip in the Classic.  

It's not like MTB has never won a big race coming off a poor prep ;-)    

JASON:

MTB and Zenyatta for the win.

I posted el Indy 10 mins before post time. too bad it did not update for all to see.

I think MTB is more than talented enough to be a player in this race, but will 10 weeks off and being dragged around the country just to breeze at various tracks have set him up well enough to succeed with this good group of horses? A tall order.

Poor Atta Boy Roy in Ancient Title giving the Northwest a black eye

Godolphin Gayego a Slam Slam Slam Dunk Winner

Washington did beat USC

i am going 2,3 11 in the third at KEE

What's up with Icon Project?  She was re-routed from the Beldame to the Spinster, but I don't see her name in the Spinster entries.

Jason, that was a tough beat, by a half head or so! Lets get em this race! I hope the Panthera Tigre Pulls it out

oh well, 2 was stuck behind horses the whole race.

Mindy,

 I'm looking for alot more than a valiant effort from the Col. I think he is sitting on a huge effort and he is gonna show everybody that SA is his track. I would love to see MTB make a big run down the stretch but I think he might be in over his head. Hope I'm  wrong about that.

Draynay,

Can't believe you and I used to live in the same town.

Nice Jason. Keeneland got some money back! On to race 4.

Longwaytomay...

I hope that you are right with the Colonel...  I just love him.  Have you seen him up close...?  gorgeous.  Hope it is his day... he is really due for a big one.  Well Armed, his half bro won it last year, so it is time!!

Gitano Hernando across the board in the Goodwood.  

Dray,

MTB has had enough rest. This is just a prep anyway.

I'm not going to write MTB off for the Goodwood or any other race he's in.  I think he is always capable of running his race and I'd love to see him flying up the rail to the finish.  But MEH made a great point - it's a great prep race for both MTB and Borel.  I think they'll hit the board.  It would be a treat to see Col John run well too.  

Zenyatta for the Lady's Secret.

I like Carlsbad.

And Dublin is quite a 2 year old - I love him not just for himself but for his courageous sire.

I know Dublin is a heck of a horse, but I love Discreetly Mine, and hope he gets it done tomorrow. Same for CJ, hope he gets a good trip and runs well. In the Ancient Title, I'll be watching Crown of Thorns and Square Eddie! So glad he's back. In the Lady's Secret, I thing Zen gets beat. They'll probably set a moderate pace, but I think on her fave track LIS will out kick Zen and CB will run well too. This is the best field Zen has faced all year and she'll really need to step up her game.

Yes, I lived in Dublin on Dublin Rd. in Ohio.  Who do you think I will be rooting for all the way up to Derby Day ?  Rock ? This very tough G1 race is just a tune up ?  How does the horse getting beat AGAIN tune him up for the toughest race of the year?  Sorry, I am not buying it and if that is the tactic it's Dumb! Sorry, but as far as I am concerned they have not done one right thing by this horse since the day after the Derby.  Another G1 race for this horse is not looking out for his best interest in my opinion.

Just saw it's official - Rachel is done for the year.  Congratulations to all for an exciting, historic 3 year old campaign.  I do have a question about a statement in the article though - it says she is a chestnut.  I thought she was a bay.  She sure doesn't look chestnut in pictures or in person.

Was Jeff Mullins aware Keeneland isn't the speed track it used to be shipping in Carlsbad? Informed Decision looks unbeatable to me.

I really do hope Gitano Hernando does not run a good race for you all, as it would be heartbreaking to see your top horses be humiliated by a low class european reject, much as Icon Project has already humiliated your top fillies and mares.  But I am pretty sure you are all used to this by now.  Anabaas Pride gave a scare to Zenyatta already, she will give her a bigger scare this weekend.  Could any of you imagine what Dar Remi or Stacelita do to your top fillies?  oh that would be scary.

I'm not much of a better myself, I am interested in knowing how much your picks are influenced by actually seeing the horses before the race.  Seems like people are pretty well decided; unless there is a clear red flag you stick with your pick?

Mike Relva,

Just for you to know, I haven't forgotten you want that autographed horseshoe of Sea The Stars, only that John Oxx thinks you would probably give it to John Shireffs to put it on Zenyatta to enhance her late running kick since its getting slower as time gently goes passing bye.

Euro -  Have fun gloating over your fabulous pro-ride horses this year, but I really don't know why anybody would want the "Best Rubber Horses on Earth" title.

We'll see your guys pulling up the rear again in the BCC next year when everything gets back to normal.  

ALB-Wow, you must know something we don't if you think Zenyatta is going to finish behind three. There's always a good chance she can lose especially with her running style, but I don't see any scenario where she finished out of the money!

 It would be awesome to see Borel win the Goodwood back aboard Mine That Bird, but I don't think he's the best of the field.  I'm rooting for Tiago as a sentimental choice, he's proven too consistent.

Terri V... I have always got a kick out of the color blindness of some of these writers. I will never forget the one article I read about Smarty Jones when they called him the little Bay horse. Huh??? Smarty is not bay and RA is not Chestnut. She is as bay as they come. C'mon people...who writes this stuff???  

I hope we see a big come back for MTB tomorrow. He just looks so good right now. Physically he looks ready. I also think Zen will be there again.  She is an amazing filly and I love to watch her run.

Mine That Bird- Like his Brother gets no respect, but will win tomorrow.

Frizette-Touching Beauty

Champagne-Dublin (Has that famous two dollar walk Lukas loves)

May all of you enjoy a good day tomorrow, and may all the jockeys and horses have a safe race.

Euro

Your comments......coming from someone whose fellow countrymen, Robin Wright of the TimesOnLine, is now calling Sea The Stars the best horse ever. (Yawn Yawn)...(ZZZZZZZ)

Euro,

   Your comment regarding Zenyatta, "late running kick since its getting slower as time gently goes passing bye.", Well, It makes no sense, In her last race, Zenyatta covered the final quarter mile of the Hirsch in 22.49 seconds and she hit peak speed at the wire of 40 miles per hour.  If you call that slow, Show me where Sea the Stars has ever closed the final quarter in that time or speed?, You won't...The winning margin had all to do with Mike Smith's timing then it did with Zenyatta's kick.  I don't get how people can beat up Zenyatta, Regardless of all the complaints about her, She is Perfect, How many others can say that?, Zero...

Great Race by Fatal Bullet!, Congrats to Mr. Baker and Mr. Dion...

EURO

I have no comment! I feel sorry for you!

Euro,

    One more thing, Why is it that your previous 11 Arc winners who have run in the Breeder's Cup have all been beaten?, 10 of them on the Turf and one in the Classic?  I would wait before you start beating your own drum...

I think the Goodwood is the toughest to figure out.  There are probably 8 horses with a legitimate reason to win this race.

I like Pacific Classic winner Richard's Kid, the only horse besides Gitano Hernando coming into the race off of a win, with a 107 Beyer.  The distance might be too short, but he's working well.

I like Gitano Hernando.  All he's done is win 3 of his last 4.  And I wouldn't throw out MTB - he's been as consistent as anyone in this race.

Will I be betting on this race? Probably not.  

The only question I have for the Lady's Secret is whether or not Life is Sweet is going to get Zenyatta.  I don't think she will, but she's working great and probably has the best chance of all.  Cocoa Beach should be right there too, only out of the money twice in 15 starts you have to admire her consistency.

I heard that both the Goodwood and Ladys Secret are going to be played during ESPN and ESPN2's college football halftime show.  I think this is an excellent way to showcase our sport to a broader audience!

Cue the violin for Dray. Since when did you care about MTB anyway.

What a tough trip for Beautician. Was never able to get going. Kent D. waited too long to pull the trigger

Really looking forward to the races this weekend. I like Mine that Bird, but I don't know if he will win it,  so I'm going with Colonel John.  Hoping to see Zenyatta continue undefeated and Dublin win!

On a side note... Jason, who is it that doesn't know their horse colors? This is the second article I've seen recently where the info was incorrect, calling bays chestnuts and chestnuts bays, etc. In the "It's Official..." article, Rachel is called a chestnut... seriously, a chestnut? She's a dark bay- bays have black manes and tails, while chestnuts have red manes and tails. Not to be nit picky, but it's general horse knowledge.

Pedigree fans might want to take a look at Super Saver in the Champagne.  His dam, Supercharger, is a full sister to Girolamo, who's the wise guy choice in the Jerome on Sunday.  Interesting how everyone points out that Girolamo is a full to Daydreaming and Accelerator, but never that he's also a full to She's a Winner, the dam of Bluegrass Cat and Lord Of the Game.  If Super Saver can win, it will really continue to push this Indy X Get Lucky cross.

Of course, if you really want to push this pedigree angle, you would have taken a look at Decelerator in the Alcibiades, since she's out of an Accelerator mare.  Probably by the time you read this you'll know!

Jason, I like your Handicapping style. How about Lucas' Wildcat Nation @ KEE on Sat with M/L @ 10/1? Dixiana Field is tough to HCP-Lot of Value bets w/the 2 yr olds.  Got to play bloodlines, trainer/jock angle weighs havily combined w/odd's...

TBCAPPER Twitter Pics KEE & SA

Lethal Heat in the Lady's Secret!

Yes Icon Project is being trained up to the Ladies Classic.I,m not even sure if I want Zenyatta to run

in the big classic or the Ladies version,Zenyatta,Careless Jewel,Icon Project,Music Note,Sounds like a good race to me.

MTB is more than good enough to beat that bunch if he is ready. I'm looking for a good effort tomorrow which will set him up perfectly for the BCC. By the way, Birdstone didn't get any respect either.

SuperSaver in the Champagne.  Improving.  Dublin was all out in last race.  Aspire will be the big challenge.

LDP, can you please explain to all of us your hatred of Zenyatta?  You hate her with a passion, don't you?  Good for you little girl.  I am suprised Jason mentioned Monzante.  Love him, not sure he is ready to come back in this spot after such along layoff... Hoping Colonel John runs HUGE, Monzante, Tiago....Mine That Bird.  I will be there.

To MEH:

Thanks for the info about MTB.  Makes sense.

My heart is with MTB. I think he hits the board too. I think colonel John hits the board too. Zenyatta and Dublin are my other two picks.

Gunbow, Icon Project had a little setback this week and they are hoping to have her ready for the BC.

Look out for Presious Passion in the Hirsch!

helsbells,

    I'll tell you the same thing I told Carlos, look your facts up before you shoot your mouth off. I have NEVER said i hated Zenyatta, in fact if you go back even a little ways you'll find i've actually said I LIKE her and i'm a FAN. Next time before you open your big trap open your eys and look up the facts.

THE ROCK

I believe DRAYNAY is straight forward enough that I accept what he's saying regarding MTB to be true. That's my opinion!

Mike Relva,

   How are you? I respect your opinion, But, With all due respect, I disagree on your last comment regarding Draynay...

Zenyatta Will win Big tomorrow, and I really hope Mine that Bird wins, But I will be happy with him hitting the board...

I hope TVG pays Paul Lo Duca Well...

Ugh, A-Roid just tied the game...

Gunbow

I read somewhere, on an English blog of all things, that Icon Project had some sort of an injury and they weren't sure about her for the BC.

LDP: I will attest to the fact that you don't hate Zen. All along it was her campaign and connections you are not a fan of. Truly I don't think any of us can actually feel "hate" for any of these majestic horses. Even when Dray was trash talking MTB and calling him a fluke I never once thought that he actually hated MTB. Now his comments prove that he may not be his biggest fan but still respects the horse immensly. So, just out of pure curiosity...helsbelles called you a girl. Your not a girl, are you?

O.K. LDP, scratch the last question. I went back to the guest blog and see your name is Dani. I thought it was Danny...that is where the confusion came in. Not that there is anything wrong with being a girl...or running like one either : )

I'm with Mike, Dray is normally straight up about what he thinks, so i'll believe him on this. Just because you may not think a horse is as good as the rest doesn't mean you hate them and wish the worst upon them.

I'm really looking forward to the Shadwell Mile.  What a great field.  I'll go with Mr. Sidney over Justenoughhumor, Battle Of Hastings and Court Vision in the exactas.

Brutal at Keeneland today, hope for better in NY tomorrow.

Just hope Dub isn't getting the curse on here.

We've been LOL at some of these comments on here.  Got a little advice about that.

What is it he says? Oh yes PEOPLE have opinions HORSES have the answer.

I'll add to that, with: PEOPLE usually have the MOST opinions on things they just guess about.

MTB a toss???

Interesting to say the least.  Anyone who watched the races at MTR WV Derby knows that the track was stone cold inside all day long.  Naturally Mike Smith stiffed the horse and made a premature wide move agaisnt the bias only to come up short.  I think they did the right thing backing off the and avoiding the Travers and wheeling back here.  This crop of older is mediocare at best and is ripe to be picked off by a horse that has had success on synth before.  I am not so sure he is better on dirt...just that he got really good at the right time.  Watch the Preakness again...this horse came very close to running down the monster herself.  The thing about Macho Again...he was never getting by Rachel....by MTB was getting to her and he would have beaten her in another 3 jumps.  The talent is there....will he win the Goodward???  I think its possible...but do not be surprised if he runs well enough to set him up for the Classic at a huge number, especially if all these Euros come over for the party.  What people don't understand was Raven's Pass was no fluke last year.  He was a legit Gr 1 animal who was hammering Gr 1 horses in Europe.  Curlin was at the end of the line and was favored on rep.  Just because Euros ran 1-2 last year does not mean it has to happen again.  If MTB steps up and runs well in the Goodward, I say look out in the Classic.  Anyone who can get close to Rachel is ok with me.

priz

Karen 2,

    Yeah, it's ok, my name can be kinda confusing to some, but it's ok. My whole middle name is Danielle.

Draynay,

 I am curious if you got your future bet down on Dublin. What odds did you get?

Mine That Bird will CRUSH everyone today. Zenyatta will win, as always. GO BIRD!!!!

Adam, I love Lethal Heat...but trying to beat Zenyatta with a week's rest after her second place finish last weekend, (CalCup)..OMGosh...

The Rock, I agree about Beautician. She couldn't get a break.

I have no interest in watching a train wreck.  MTB coming in 4th or 5th does nothing for me or the sport.

Do I think he will win?  No, but I hope he does hit the board and if he doesn't I hope they do the right thing and rest him until next year. Bring him back in the Donn I would love to see him at Gulfstream.  What I don't want to see is him rushed back trying to make the Classic which I believe is too ambitious in my opinion and will do nothing good for the horse.

MTB to win!

Side note: I think his trainer should consider getting him a companion such as a chicken, cat etc. He seems very bored. I watched him on the webcam for a little while, and he seemed to enjoy feeding the pigeons from his feed bucket when they were around! I think it would improve his mental state.

mtb doesnt even breathe the same air col. john breathes. aint no way mtb is winnin the goodwood. his wv derby didnt shock me. hes mediocre. i like tiago in the goodwood.

longwaytomay, I got 22 to 1 !  And 12 to 1 on Quality Road for the Classic.  Go Dublin !

GREG J

I understand your point. BTW I think your posts are some of the best I've ever read.

DRAYNAY

Your points regarding MTB make sense. He should be rested as you say and reqroup for next yr.

load up on MTB, like Diamondrella in the First Lady....gotta try to beat 'Forever who is not a fan of ground with "cut"...Penna a fine trainer with fillies/mares, especially on lawn and gets a rider who is smart and with physical ability to be one of the best. Shadwell looks like Mr. Mott has the goods in Mr.Sidney and gets his favorite jock...will use Karelin in here for a price play.

I think I know how LDP feels about Zenyatta.  I feel the same about Rachel -- love her, can't abide her connections.  Why the "formal announcement" that she will not run again this year?  Did we not know that?  Poor Steve A., it seems he only gets to make comments about the weather:  "It's nice and cool here, the horses really like it, blah blah."

Saddle57 - I use to board at a barn where a horse that was a messy eater (lots of pigeons) would kill the pigeons that he could catch in his foodbowl!  

As I recall, MTB's trainer said that the Goodwood was not MTB's optimal distance.  Has he not had enough time off after his throat surgery?  If the horse has to get a race in to be ready for the BC, test how he races on the synthetic this year, is it out of line to run him in a race that he might pick up a check in?  Wondering if this isn't also testing the waters about his ability to come back now.  MTB has been consistent, danced all the Triple Crown dances and placed in them all, including almost running down RA.  I'd like to see him win this one but I think, like his trainer has already said, that this is not his best distance.

But my main question is, why do they keep going back to Calvin Borel?  Mike Smith does not seem to know how to ride this horse and Calvin, with all due respect, was not savvy about the Belmont track and the same with Santa Anita.  Why put him on MTB again in the same situation?  Plus, if RA runs next year and Calvin gets the ride, MTB is going to be looking for a jockey any time there is a conflict.

The jockey I like for this horse, Joe Talamo, has been working him at Santa Anita.  Wish they'd bite the bullet and make Talamo his regular rider.  I like Calvin but see nothing but continued jockey problems ahead.  MTB is a gutsy little horse and deserves a rider who "gets" him and will stay with him or at least won't have the already built-in conflicts.

Draynay,

 My dad used to tell me that if you made a future bet on the KY Derby and your horse made it to the starting gate you already acomplished a great deal. If Dublin stays healthy and mentally matures, look out! If he goes to the gate and you have 22-1 those odds will be at least four times what you would get the day of the race. I hope he stays healthy and D. Wayne goes easy with him. Good luck on your bet!

PAM S

"Poor Steve A."   You've got to be joking! He's lucky he's even a part of  RA.

Pam S., that's what owners get to do ;-)...ultimately make the decisions their $$$ pay for.

I'm bummed...the race on TV is on ESPN Classics which I don't get...and for some reason I can't get through into my YouBet account (have been trying for an hour) to watch it...I am SO upset.

Boy, that was a helluva a run by Informed Decision to catch Carlsbad. Nice going!

Calrsbad rated beautifully, didn't expect that, but still was no match for Informed Decision. What determination!

In the Futurity, Maker's Ghostzapper colt, Stately Victor, might show up in time.

HorseFirst, I'm with you on Joe Talamo. After the race he gave I Want Revenge where he showed patience and didn't panic, my opinion of him went way up. And he has been working him (MTB) out and seems to really respect the horse. Everything you'd want in a jockey.

da3hoss, do you get HRTV? They usually show the races with a time delay, but at least you could see it.

To me Forever Together got jobbed in the First Lady.....She was under a full head of steam when the winner conveniently made a slight move to the right, just enough to throw her off her stride, which I believe cost her the race.....To me that is the kind of interference that is never called, but always has an influence on a race.  You see it far too often.....Some may call it streategy tactics, I call it BS.

So much for Draynay's “Pletcher” bashing about failing to win a G-1 race in New York…..Devil May Care took care of business…..What other Dray predictions are going to turn into fallacies today…..Can anyone say Mine That Bird?

Gunbow

Well Said looked like the man until the last 16th.....One-To-Nine and up the track.....Looks like his long campaign caught up to him.....I wonder about the Breedes Crown.

LITTLE EURO

Watch Zenyatta win for fun today.

lol

No bad luck to Dublin, but I have to say that after Theriott was replaced after riding the horse without fault.....Too Bad Wayne!!!!You too Dray.

Yep, just what I feared. The DN curse.

Ramon blew the turn and shows 'knowing the track' isn't everything.

What happened to Dublin today??? He was flat. Nothing there... what a bummer...

with that said...Love what Court Vision did today.

They need to get Calvin off Mine That Bird. This is the second time that he's come into a track he's not very familiar with and he hasn't ridden a horse earlier in the day - whether it's he didn't want to or no one picked him to ride for them. Either way, it isn't good.

Well, there you go. The Goodwood is won by a horse not nominated to the BC.  I thought he could pull off the upset here.   I might be the only person who thought Richard's Kid had a good shot, but he ran out of track.  As did Colonal John who I thought ran a really good race. Both he and RK will be a good bets in the Classic with the extra distance if they come out of this race Ok.  

I'm disappointed MTB didn't run better.  I wonder what will be next for him.

Congrats to Bloodhorse for getting the Goodwood information up before the Santa Anita/Oak Tree track site did.

I like Calvin Borel but I just think that there is a lot to be said to a regular rider, if you can get one, and someone who knows the track.  Yes, Talamo's ride on I Want Revenge really influenced me as a rider with patience who could fit Mine That Bird nicely.

Sorry MTB finished that far back, anyone know if he managed to uncork that furious last minute drive of his and just ran out of ground (Quite expected), or just never fired at all, or didn't get a very good ride?  Didn't race well on the synthetic?

Pam S.

    Thank you. I actually was rooting for the big mare today, just thought she was past her peak. Well, she proved me wrong, and did what I said would be needed to win, which is to revert to the form she held last year. Come on Moss run her against the boys. She proved she's back in form today, now run her in the Classic.

On another note, to bad on MTB. I know that was not his distance either, but I don't think it's his surface either. I hope they take him back to the east for the Clark, at Chruchill.

Dub didn't handle the track, blew the turn and just seemed uncomfortable. I was one not in favor or replacing Jamie but.....

Wayne said he wasn't sure what was up. Back to the drawing board, see what he can find out..

Yesterday was a bummer day and today was no better. DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!!

But at least Todd was able to win two G1's in a couple hours at Belmont. Breaking his NY G1 drought.

I am also disappointed MTB didn't do better. I just thought he was physically ready for this race. I beleive he didn't take to the track. He just didn't look comfortable at all.

Im thinking the Europeans are booking thier plane tickets.  Zenyatta is amazing.. I love her. She didn't even try today. She was toying with those filly's.  The only competition she has that is a filly would be RA and she isn't coming to the classic so they need to put her in with the boys. She would probably whip them all. I get a kick out of the commentators. They argue like we do but on national tv. LOL..I thought it was funny when they compared RA and Zenyatta and said that physically the more imposing of the two is Zen. Well..duh. RA is only 3.

Zen is ready for the STS...bring him over!!!!

Informed Decision.......Even the announcer gave up on her....by the tone of the call he thought she would be second.....Nice finish.

Zenyatta was her usual magnificent self. She is so impressive. Just love her. I do think she will have to push a little harder if Careless Jewel shows up in the BC Distaff. I think she will beat her but we will need to see that next gear that I know she has if she's pushed.

I agree with Draynay, they need to give MTb a rest until next year. I also think he needs a new jockey. He's a sweetie and I love this little guy that could and did when it was most important.

Cowboy Cal was great. Ditto Court Vision and Diamnondrella. Greta day of racing.

Zenyatta is just amazing!  She won that with complete and utter ease, I really hope she goes to the classic and takes the boys on, She is all class!!!, Congrats to The Mosses and Mr. Sherriffs and Mike Smith...

With all due respect, the Zenyatta naysayers can go home now.  I loved the call at the wire, "Zenyatta with condescending ease..."

She never dropped her ears during the race and Mike Smith never touches her.

Afterwards, she isn't even breathing hard.  You cannot make it look easier than that. She has ALOT left in her tank for whichever BC race she goes to, and I hope it's the Classic but I won't be disappointed if it's the Distaff (sorry, I can't make myself call it the "Ladies Classic").

Congrats to all of Z's people for the perfect 13 for 13 and 7th grade I win for the big Z train!

Other than Dublin dropping a turd today, what a great day it was.  Now we have another horse for Dutrow to brag about.  It's going to be a long journey to the Derby if this keeps up!

The Colonel ran his eyes out...  just needed more ground...  Garrett

rode him perfectly.  We will get them in the B.Cup Classic @ a mile and a quarter...  He is an amazing horse given the right ride !!!!!

Cut Informed back to a mile... he ran well also, just too far...

My Pletcher bashing ?  I have nothing against the man I just wouldn't let him train my horse if I owned a colt and wanted to win a Triple Crown race.  Congrats to him today he is now 1 or 2 for 53 in New York Grade 1 races.

Dublin didn't fire today but it's a long way from May.  But on a serious note it is time to put MTB away.  There is no point at all in running that horse in the Classic. He hasn't come closer than a length of winning anything since the Derby.  He finished a distant 5th or 6th and now it's just sad to watch.  This horse IS NOT prepared for G1 competition and running him again and again is not going to change anything.  Right now MTB is no where near a G1 contender.  They need to give the horse a much needed rest in my opinion running him in the Classic would be borderline cruel.

I know Jerry Baily said it jokingly but I am not. The best horse to give the Americans a shot in the Classic is Zenyatta. I'm totally serious. Face it, right now in America there are no great classic distance horses other than Z and Rachel. Rachel is not running so it is up to Zenyatta. Can she get 1 1/4? I think so.

Draynay,

 Don't give up on Dublin yet. You are correct about MTB. Put him up for the winter and let him rest.

Mike Relva,

 You were right, Zenyatta won for fun today, she was toying with the rest of the field.

Laz, that was Bob and Bill's call, Wayne went with the hot rider. I would have liked Rajiv if not Jamie but, oh well.

Zenyatta! I sure wish she'd whip them in the Classic and if Sea The Stars, the horse being proclaimed

'best ever' by some pubs, wish he'd come over and she'd whup him Then SHE would be HOY, FWIW.

Pharmacologist was busy today.

Colonel John is such a grinder, he needs every inch of stretch -- and a little more distance.

Zenyatta wins for fun. Those pricked ears when she makes the lead crack me up.

I also read somewhere that Icon Project had an injury, maybe career ending.

EURO

So did you catch Zenyatta's race?

lol

Zenyatta  is unreal,

I would really like to see her get a good test. Today she just played around, she ran about 5 serious steps took the lead and then just got to playing

What a day for FTK - November!  Not one, but two of the mares consigned to that sale won Grade 1's today.  This is rapidly becoming the best breeding stock sale - even the proven broodmares are relatively young, it's now the place to consign race fillies and mares, and the weanlings are finally up to the standard of the mares.

No reason to think Richard's Kid won't be right there in the Classic--had a Richard's Kid exacta box and Fallon's horse just woultn't give in---best prep race of the weekend was the Goodwood---Mine That Bird was outclassed, and Tiago wasn't ready for these---Mike HAD to ride him for Shirreffs but believe me, Richard's Kid would've been his choice! Col John  ran lights out as well....as for Big Z, I thought she was into the bit earlier/and that made it a good prep for a step up in class---WAN'T to see her v males! The early move to the lead--early, for Zenyatta these days---was reasuring, that she's still "got it", and she dominated that race---Lethal Heat up for 2nd, good horse, just hobknobbed with the ill-fated/real good Grazen--took back and showed her class---I can enjoy her either way--fillies or males---would rather she take way back in CLASSIC, and just finish like the great Zenyatta---maybe she's not good enough but if she's closing, "that'll work", for me...

Really I see Zero point in running Zenyatta in the ladies Classic. I dont think a win in the Classic will give her HOY but, what it will do is giver her the status she deserves, She is so much better than what those cowards for connections she has have allowed her to show.

played Karelian to win! lost my bet on Indian Firewater/Warrens Jitterbug double.....lost my wps bet on AllIcansayis Wow (thought Fallon rode him well)...lost my Zenyatta/Life is Sweet ex box...got the place on Carlsbad, who did run well...have just enough to play the feature at Los Al tonight...oh, it's ONLY a Gr I, 440, (classic distance)...featuring the two fastest horses on the planet: Freaky and Jess You And I...maybe try to beat 'em with the #1, A Mere Splash..

Is anyone other than me not surprised by MTB failing to win the Goodwood?  I've thought this for awhile and every race he proves me right ... his KD win was luck, not talent.  He had the best trip with the right jockey on the right surface.  The more talented horses had bad trips, were injured in the race or were scratched from the race.  They need to pull him from the Breeders Cup and put him into regular, small time races in New Mexico and Texas and forget about stakes wins.  Send him back to Canada and let him run there.  But he is not a stakes horse and has shown the lack of class in every race since the Preakness.  

Did anyone else hear the ESPN announcers say that if Zenyatta wins the Classic (not the Ladies Classic but the Classic against the boys) that she should get Horse of the Year?  HOW can they argue against Rachel, who has had a hard season, beat the boys in 3 races in 3 different classics and whose races were wide spread on a variety of different tracks in different states?  Zenyatta's races have been handpicked over two tracks.  She hasn't had a single challenge.  One time against the boys does not make her a better horse than Rachel!!  Rachel has nothing left to prove.  Zenyatta has a LOT left to prove.  So she's 13-0 as a 5yo?  Rachel is 9 in a row as a 3yo!  She'll destroy Zenyatta's 13 race streak!  She won't retire undefeated because of poor jocks and trainers early in her career but she will retire as one of the best fillies/mares in history, if not THE BEST filly in history!!  And I don't see Zenyatta winning the Breeders Cup race, especially if the Europeans come in and dominate the Americans like they did a year ago and even more so if they run Zenyatta in the Classic against Summer Bird, Colonel John & all the Euros that will be in that race.  

Zenyatta is an amazing athlete, a huge mare and deserves the kudos she gets.  But let's not name a mare who ran 4 (maybe 5 by the end of it) times this year Horse of the Year.  Name her Champion Older Mare, yes, but not Horse of the Year, she didn't do anything to earn that title.  

Yeah, made lots of money off my prediction that Gitano Hernando would win the Goodwood! Was wrong about Zenyatta's Pride, I was really hoping that she would lose! Oh well, there's still the Breeders Cup ladies classic where she will get beat!  Remember, don't forget about the Euro's when it comes to handicapping the BC!

What I'm saying is this: Zenyatta moved into a slow pace and made the lead right away--meaning she was really trucking--meaning she got ton out of this race cuz she finished out---a couple of maintenence works and it's look out---whomever she faces--and i hope it's the Classic!

CB MAN

Zenyatta's connections that you refer to as "cowards",don't care what you think ,since so called fans like yourself have zero invested in Zenyatta. You don't have a clue! Stop being a crybaby!

RECHELLE

You prove what a phony you are. You stated in an earlier blog that if Zenyatta won you wouldn't spin it. Also,that you were a fan of Zenyatta. All YOU DO IS BASH. She won like I stated that she would and you still don't give her and/or connections an ounce of credit. Earlier your posts indicated you doubted she would even win today. Well,she won without effort. You have Zenyatta bashing on the brain. Glad everyone doesn't think like you do,if you can classify it as such.

The Goodwood today sealed the deal for me - the Breeder's Cup is 56 weeks away and not 4 weeks away.  Running on this "stuff" two years in a row makes no sense.  Hanidcapping?  Put some names in a hat.  I dont blame Rachel's owner and quite a few others to sit these so called "Championship races" out!  See ya in Kentucky!

Like was said before about another horse who the hecklers said after winning the Derby would never win another race. THEY don't have to.

Ask John Q. Public, they know the Derby winner. my relative talked to som guys from a foreign country the other day, they were all up on MTB.

Man such bitterness. Seek help.

The correct quote that I botched, and heard about is  "People have OPINIONS, horses have the FACTS."

There seems to be few facts on here and more heresay and opinion from a distance.

My bet is on Todd to win a bunch of the BC races, pass Asmussen.

Like we were talking to day, he and Wayne and a bunch of others have been bashed by better men than those on here. Who cares?

Mine That Bird got over that track just fine! They flew late/pace was soft---he'll go on to Classic, he WAS finishing up in the Goodwood, and galloped out well, too...

I am really disappointed in MTB's race today. I respect all equine athletes and don't want to use the F word, but the Derby is starting to seem like it was so long ago.  I wonder what's next for him too, but off that performance, I would not go to the BC Classic.  I'm sure everyone heard Calvin say they should get him back on dirt.

I felt better when I saw the surest thing in racing come through again.  It really seems like the Big Z likes SA's track the best, which doesn't bode well for her "lady" opponents.  She belongs in the Classic.  She might be the unstoppable force!

Mike Relva:  

I agree, Steve A. and "poor" don't really belong in the same sentence.  But when he talks, he says a whole lot of nothing except that it's nice and cool.  The owner provides all the quotes of any significance to the media, and you don't usually see that.  Hey, he believes in getting his $$$'s worth, I guess!

Congratulations to team Zenyatta! She is awesome and won so easy it is incredible-the others are running as fast as they can and she is galloping with her ears up!  Also congrats to Court Vision and Take The Points - horses that I have liked since well before their Derbies. Can't wait for the Breeder's Cup!

The third 1/4 of Ladys Secret was under 24 sec on the pace---Zenyatta made up several lengths in that 1/4 meaning she must've thrown a :23 third 1/4, then finished out---BIG race! Am thinking there was more/need to see her in Classic...

rachelle if obama got the NPP after being in the office for 11 days....why not....Zenyatta.....andthe way she ran today....i would not fear Rachell....only the Euros........since this is getting international..why not include Euros in our crowning HOTY...goldi could be in there along with the "Star"

MTB ran a credible race today.  Was closing nicely after a layoff and his throat problems.....I still say watch out in the Classic if he goes.....a lot of KNOWLEDGEABLE people were touting Tiago....Where did he finish?  Leave the little Bird alone.

Mike Relva

I acknowledge that I am but a lowly fan, but fans do play a role in the sport.

Not that it really matters, but I have owned and raced horses in the past, nothing at the level of a Zenyatta , but satisfaction can be found in the most lowly of places.

Not trying to step on any one’s toes here, but I’m sure you would agree, that horse is so much better, than they are allowing her to be.

She runs to her competition, and I can’t really think of a good reason to keep her in subpar competition.

Some of you might say she is running with her own gender, but it is clear that she is far beyond them. (Rachel aside ).  

Not really trying to knock the connections , I just want to see what she can do when she has to really run.

Zenyatta won again and beat the same horses again by 2 lengths.  Good for her but can we please stop pretending this horse who just ran barely under 143 at 1 1/16th is going to run in the Classic.  It is insulting to even suggest such a thing.  IT'S NOT going to happen, she would have a 0% chance of winning.  I wouldn't take her in the Breeders Cup Distaff if she was 10 to 1.  Music Note is on a different level and will win with ease.  Running and beating soft competition and pretending you are still great is total nonsense.  She will face real horses in the Classic and will be exposed.  The clock doesn't lie.  Slow.

How can anyone come on here and want to dis on Zenyatta and her connections? They have crafted a game plan for her, stuck to it, and from the looks of it it has worked out beautifully for all involved.  We as racing fans should be thankful that at age 5 she is even on the track.  How many undefeated colts would still be on the track at 5?

Personal Ensign and Zenyatta.  That is pretty elite company, regardless.

I agree with others that MTB should get some time off.  Bring him back on the dirt next year in a softer spot, get his confidence back.  I don't think he needs to hide out in NM or Texas. He may be another Strike The Gold who lost 12 straight races after the Derby before finding the winners circle again.

Man this clock obsession. Who ARE you, Captain Hook?

Time means nothing when you're winning for fun. Do what, beat them by 40? Why? The clock only matters if you are pushed, Zenyatta NEVER is.

Her competition has won MORE than almost anyone RA has run against. That was a tuneup, a glorified work.

Totally agree that MTB did not like the surface and ITA he needs a new jockey. Talamo maybe. I would not run him in the BCC. Draynay is right about that.

However, I think you're wrong about Zenyatta Draynay. I think there is more there, we just haven't seen it because they have her do just enough to win. While I believe that she is capable of more, will she get the message when it is needed i.e. against the boys in the BCC? She has never been asked for those gears before.  If they run with the boys, they will have to run a different kind of race and all those other gears will have to kick in.

I said it here, wish for Gitano Hernando to do bad, today only proved the superiority over the best male horse in America in Colonel John and the new developing Richards Kid. Mr. Nay you were right in Colonel John, its too bad you abandon him so quickly in favor of Quality Road.  If the Star does not show up, I already said The Master will romp, Gitano Hernando already made the statement today.  DId anybody bet the Gitano, Fool if you did not.  Team Valor does not import crap people.  Yes he is a Euro reject, but look how good he looked, now imagine Sea The Stars.

Mike Relva, its all in good fun man.  And I recognize greatness when I see it.  That mare I had not seen her much, but I saw her race today, she is the best horse in America, probably the only one that could give the Euros a run for the money.  She is spectacular much the best over the other Filly Rachel and any other male horse.  She was geared down, she does not know how to lose.  A superb mare that Zenyatta, I would love to see her go head to head though with Stacelita or Dar RE Mi that would be an incredible race, as I believe this mare can go the mile and a half with no problem, as you can tell she only runs for a quarter mile in every race. The other filly is great too, but shes a miler type, would like to see her take on Goldikova at a mile.

But the Classic people, could very well be a Euro sweep again. Mastercraftsman, Rip Van Winkle, Gitano Hernando, FAme and Glory and STars if he goes.  Your best horse is COlonel John, or Zenyatta if she goes.  Yes I am now a Zenyatta supporter.  Happy Relva. She's one hell of a horse. The Derby winner I believe had a horrible ride, get a top jockey for him, that might move him up, a Frankie Dettori he will be available for the classic or Prado from America.  What a ride by Fallon today, superb handling.

Mr. Nay

I knew you are a Euro lover, you love that Dublin, don't you.  Can't get away from a those Euro irresistible euro names, too bad he flopped today.  Stick with Colonel John man.  The other horses are not good enough.  Gio Ponti was demolished by that old longshot.

Rechelle--so MTB's fast closing, less than a length, second place in the Preakness to the probable HOY was luck not talent too?

This is only the second time he's finished out of the money this year--I truly despise people who follow racing, who only like a horse as long as it wins--that attitude is why derby winners end up like Ferdinand, covered in teriyake sauce in a Japanese steak house. I suppose Einstein is all luck too since he's only won twice our of 6 starts this year.

Einstein: 2-1-2

MTB: 1-2-2

Horses win and they loose. For all sorts of reasons. I knew MTB wasn't going to run well as soon as I heard who his jockey was--Calvin Borel's disdain for the horse is apparent every time he talks about him--that gets transferred to the horse--I was just hoping he'd finish in the money.

Horses like Zenyatta and Sea the Stars and Rachel Alexandra are great, but you're following the wrong sport if you judge whether a horse has talent by their standards.

Is MTB a once in a lifetime horse like Sea the Stars, no he's not, he's just a little working man. I wish Joe had ridden him today, he still might have lost but I think he'd have run a better race. Joe genuinely like the little Bird and the little bird seems to like Joe too. If he runs the Breeders, and I hope he does, I pray Chip wakes up and doesn't seat Gollum Borel on MTB.

Someone earlier mentioned that Z and RA were the only quality classic distance horses in the U.S.  I don't recall that either of these two have ever run the classic distance (10 furlongs).  Z MIGHT be a classic runner because of her style; RA has been very close to being overtaken in shorter distances - not a good sign for running 10 furlongs or more (an even better reason than "plastic" for staying away from a classic distance challenge).

Dray

When you say can barely beat 1.43 for 1-1/16M, you can't be talking about Zenyatta.....Of course not.  You were talking about Rachel in her Golden Rod (1.43), or was it her F.G. Oaks (1.43.2), or maybe it was her Fantasy (1.43.1).....Of course, Rachel has never run a sub 1.43 1-1/16M race.....Why don't you give up...  You're getting to be pretty boring.

RUNFAST159

Thanks,for logical points today. AS you said,people should appreciate that Zenyatta's still running. That's the problem,many so called fans are nothing but crybabies and don't appreciate something great!

    It is so funny, People will come on here and put down a horse and her connections, Then finish their comment with a back handed compliment to her!  Which is it?  People keep coming up with excuses for her perfection, It is getting so old.  They are convinced she will lose, For whatever reason, Then when she wins with ease, They make all these excuses?  To say she has never faced a challenge?, Seriously?, To say she has ALOT to prove?, Really? That is utter nonsense, Everytime these horses get in the gate, Anything can happen to stop them from winning, If it is so easy, Then why aren't more 5 year olds undefeated?  This mare is still racing at five years old, and might even race once or twice as a six year old.  Sea the Stars will never see the track at four, I will be shocked if Rachel finishes her four year old campaign.  It seems so petty and a waste to beat up a Champion Mare that is/has done so much for this sport.  Also, I commend Zenyatta's connections for doing right by their Mare and not listening to the petty arguments about her campaign and frequency of races, BRAVO!  Zenyatta is in Perfect form and 100 percent sound, Umm, Maybe her connections know her better then all the so called critics?, You think?

     It is sad, When you have three of the best stories to hit this hurting sport come along all in the same year, Zenyatta, Rachel, and Mine that Bird, That some will pick apart these three, in different aspects, When, Instead they should be embracing them with open arms and hoping they help save this great sport.  

    Lastly, and most important, There were seven horses that lost their lives in the past three days doing what they loved to do, Run. They died, Doesn't that really put these put-downs and nonsensical arguments into perspective?  Think about it, Everytime any one of these athletes get on the track, It IS a challenge...

OMG Rechelle: "Send him back to Canada and let him run there"!!!

Sort of like Careless Jewel and Negligee and Fatal Bullet?  And never mind some of the mose recent Woodbine runners: Forever Together and Champs Elysee and so on.

Yup.  "Canada" is such a "lower end" racing "state".

Good that you think so.  Makes it easier for some of us to win big when the Woodbine horses ship down to you guys, the Center of the Racing Universe.

(p.s.  what are the odds on Ghost Fleet for the Juvenile?)

Draynay I don't agree about the times---pro ride is like turf, subject to the pace--they ride two turn races like Australian racing---no pace/fast finish--same as the males in Goodwood and those guys finished fast, too...like the one/two of Zenyatta/Lethal Heat, who had to rebreak at the top of the stretch--right back in Distaff...Music Note too....DON'T think Zenyatta gets beat by a filly this year....

Dont listen to Draynay he is drunk in love with RA; He is so jealous of Zenyatta. Zenyatta is the greatest horse to hit this earth, no horse has ever beaten her!!!!! Did anyone here Mike Smith comments after the race; nobody will beat her NOBODY- Mr. Jackson is so chicken it is disgusting. This P_g of an owner would never come out west, because he knows RA would have NO chance, ok maybe a little chance. RA should not be horse of the year, SHe literally has ran against NOBODY>  She beat MTB barely-- You see DRAYNAY what MTB did today.  DO you think RA could even come close to that? Give me a break. Mr. Jackson should be ashamed of himself,

Pam S., Calvin never admits it when he gives a bad ride. Heck, he was even making excuses after the Preakness when MTB almost caught RA. Although, I was surprised to hear him admit today that he may have moved too soon in the Belmont. The fact is, for whatever reason, Belmont day he didn't ride any earlier race to get a feel for a track he wasn't familiar with and he did the same thing today - no races before the Goodwood. So he gave two races to MTB with no knowledge of how the track was playing that day.

I see it's still just the same old crap being spouted by the same old people

people dont be so high on rip and master remember what happen to duke of marmalade last year he ran off the board so just don't think  because gitano hernando won the goodwood means that the euros are sure to win the classic. just putting it out their not trying to bash any one.

It is amazing how you Zenyatta heads elevate this  horse. She runs against fillies all the time and California ones at that. She has beaten nothing this year. Nothing. Do you hear me? Nothing. Gitano Hernando comes in and exposes California racing for what it is - rubbish

Yes, much congratulations to Zenyatta and her connections. Another flawless performance.  Having yet to see Zenyatta in person, my main wish for the Breeders Cup is that she remains healthy and sound and runs on Breeders Cup weekend, whether in the Distaff or Classic. Having missed the BC last year, and then witnessing Zenyatta scratched on Oaks day, my biggest regret(as it concerns racing) is not having seen Zenyatta run in person. I will be at Santa Anita for both days of the BC, and desperately want to see Zenyatta.

In my opinion, Zenyatta's place in the Hall of Fame, among the greats, is firmly established.  Only truly special thoroughbreds are able to start a career 13 for 13, with 7 gr.1 and 4 gr.2 wins.  A win in the Distaff would allow her to retire undefeated, with one more win than Personal Ensign, and the same number of gr.1 wins as Personal Ensign(8). Also, given that the Distaff field will feature Carless Jewel, Icon Project(although doubtful by some reports), and Music Note, a win by Zenyatta in the race would warrant a farewell on par with what Personal Ensign received when she defeated Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in 88'.  

Of course, a win in the Classic would place Zenyatta in the most elite pantheon of the greats.  However, I do not think a win in the Classic would be enough for Zenyatta to overtake Rachel for Horse of the Year, although if that were the case I may personally be inclined to co-HoYs.  Thus, as it concerns year end honors for 09', a win in the Classic may leave Zenyatta with the same number of Eclipse awards(1, as champion older female) as would a win in the Distaff.  

I think that the Zenyatta-Rachel debate has unfairly forced some fans to take one side over the other.  This is truly unfortunate because there are many ways to celebrate both great females. One way to do so is to focus on the great YEAR Rachel has had while focusing on the great CAREER Zenyatta has had.  While, in my opinion, it has been Rachel's YEAR, and that she should be Horse of the Year(or at absolute worst co-HoY), this should not take away for the amazing CAREER Zenyatta has had.  Instead of "bashing" Zenyatta and/or her connections for the fact she has made only 4 starts this season, remember that she made 7 starts last year, all in either gr.1 or 2 events.  A win in the Distaff would be a fitting end to this wonderful career, and entrench her even more firmly among the greatest fillies and mares.  A win in the Classic, on the other hand, would not only give Zenyatta at least an outside shot at HoY, it would force even the greatest of her skeptics to place her alongside Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Ruffian, Busher, Twilight Tear, Susan's Girl, and Beldame as one of the greatest female racehorses of all time.  It might even force some of the most biased Rachel supports in the "great" Rachel-Zenyatta debate to acknowledge that while Rachel might have had the better year, Zenyatta's career is every bit the equal of Rachel's.

I also want to acknowledge the performances of Magical Fantasy and Informed Decision.  

Has Magical Fantasy become the frontrunner for the female grass Eclipse?  The Yellow Ribbon was Magical Fantasy's 3rd gr.1 win of the year(and 4th for her career), and she has a win in the gr.2 Santa Barbara to go along with those gr.1s.  While I believe Ventura's win over males in the Woodbine Mile(or even her 2nd to Gio Ponti in the gr.1 Kilroe) is superior to any one of Magical Fantasy's 4 victories this year, Magical Fantasy's overall accomplishments outweigh Ventura's 2 senstaional turf performances.  With Forever Together seeming to have lost a slight bit of her brilliance, and Pure Clan having won only one gr.1 race this year, Magical Fantasy does appear to be the leading Eclipse contender at this point, although the award will likely be determined in the Breeders Cup.  Diamondrella, with her 2nd gr.1 win of the year in the First Lady, has thrown her hat into the Eclipse ring, although as a miler it is unclear what Breeders Cup race she should be pointed towards(Turf Mile, Female Sprint, Female Turf).

Is Informed Decision now the frontrunner for the Female Sprinter Eclipse?  Informed Decision has now won 5 graded stakes races this year, including 2 gr.1s.  Ventura or Indian Blessing would most likely win the Eclipse if they won the Female Sprint, but should a longshot win the race, and Informed Decision run 2nd or 3rd, Informed Decision's earlier accomplishments should be enough for her to take down the Eclipse.

Congrats also to Court Vision in the gr.1 Shadwell Mile and Cowboy Cal in the gr.2 Oak Tree Mile.  How good does the Woodford Reserve Turf Classic on Derby day now look?  Results of Woodford Reserve:

1. Einstein

2. Cowboy Cal

3. Court Vision

Congrats also to Secretariat Stakes alumns, Take the Points in the gr.1 Jamaica and Proceed Bee in gr.3 Hawthorne Derby. Having won the Secretariat, Take the Points has now won both of the gr.1 races to be run exclusively for 3 year olds on turf.

Runfast159:

I agree  that Strke the Gold is an apt horse to compare Mine That Bird with.  For those thinking that such a comparison is disrespectful to MTB, remember that Strike the Gold only lost the Belmont by a head, ran a close 3rd in the Jockey Club Gold Cup and came back as a 4 year old to win the gr.1 Pimlico Special, gr.2 Nassau County(when it was part of the American Championship Racing Series), run 2nd in the gr.1 Jockey Club Gold Cup, gr.1 Suburban, and gr.1 Gulfstream while making 25 starts in 2 years.  

Laz:

Yep, big surprise with Well Said down at the Red Mile.  While he was a surprising 2nd choice in the Little Brown Jug, I was just as surprised he was 1-20 today(technically yesterday). He's very good, but the horse that ultimately won, If I Can Dream, is also a quality runner and is a winner of $1 million on the year.  When I was at the Meadows for the Adios Elims, Well Said won one of the elims, If I Can Dream won another, and Mr Wiggles won the 3rd with Vintage Master a head back in 2nd.  While If I Can Dream beat Well Said in one of the divisions of the Tattersalls at Red Mile, Vintage Master won the other division. Vintage Master has also won over $1 million on the year.  The Breeders Crown elims are next week, and the 3 year old male pacers are deep.

Rechelle-

Did you happen to see the Preakness? Anyone who calls this horse a Fluke knows very litle about race horses. MTB got beat 3 3/4 lengths.He galloped out pretty good. He may have needed the race and judging by his results on synthetics it does not appear to be his best surface.

Dray

Glad to see you're calming down a litle bit. MTB got beat 3 3/4 lengths and galloped out pretty good. Thats not distant. I didn't look like CB rode the horse to win.He looked great in the paddock and if he comes out of the race good there is no reason not yo try the BCC.

I did have the Zen/Lethal Heat ...I just love Lethal Heat, she's such a good race horse, running back to back weekends, I would love to have a race horse like her.

I think MTB has shown twice he does not like this track...I agree he should run in the Clark, mostly for his confidence...he tries as hard as he can. It bothers me that the jockey says he's struggling but the trainer says the race isn't long enough...

I haven't given up on him at all...I mean, he's waaaay ahead of John Henry at the same point in their careers, LOL, we can only hope a talented little horse like him gets put in the right spots to win.

Dray,

    The half the horses in the Lady's Secret ran was almost 50 seconds, so it is not her fault that the final time ended up being so slow. This is what I meant before about Zen being able to beat better when fractions were slow and having to go wide. She did it here, getting back to that moster form, and I'm actually glad.

The Dream Lives On ...

Lost in all the G1 action yesterday was the win by Pashito the Che in the $250,000 Gallant Bob H at Philadelphia.  This 3yo colt has now won 5 of 10, including 3 stakes, and has earned over $300,000.  So where is the dream?  Well, this guy cost just $1,700 as an OBS weanling.  Just shows you can still catch lightning in a bottle!

Amazing the knocking on Shireff's and the great Z Lady.  Also, the slam by Rachael on the early trainer and jock for RA.  Unneeded that!

However, what so many, including, the rah rah guys at TVG, miss is that the grade I Lady Secret's was a prep for the big prize.  This is no different than Charlie using Grade Is as preps for bigger prizes.  It is called "Having a Roadmap".  Fans are the only ones who really believe each race should stand on its own and horses and trainers should let it all hang out each and every time.  So, the marvelous Queen Z did not set a track record; did not run off and win by lengths.  So what, as she and her trainer did what was needed to win a prep.  She was not cranked, but, she was on cruise control.  Jackson is the one ducking, not Moss and his trainer.

Draynay-if you have been watching Zenyatta then you should know she set a 9.5 furlong TRACK record at Del Mar last year - so she certainly isn't slow!  Many horses don't win by a lot of lengths but do what is needed to win - especially closers.  If you know racing then you should also know that closing into a slow pace can be quite the task!  And Mike Smith acknowledged that the close call in her last race was pilot error!  Please stop bashing horses and just enjoy them - it is unusual to even have a horse of her caliber still running at 5!

Zen's race was great! Okay, so now that Cocoa Beach lost, the refrain is "okay, but wait until she runs against Muscic Note, Careless, Jewell, whover..." Mike never has to touch her with the whip - she does it all on her own with her ears pricked. She has to win by 10+lengths to prove herself?  I believe the commentators said if Sea the Stars showed up and Zen beat him, then she should by HOY.  Who can argue with that? I think STS is better than any of the males RA has beaten.

Dray- Music Note was one length back of a 1:11.66 split and she ran the 9 furlongs in 1:48.49.  Zenyatta was 4.5 lengths back of a 1:12.93 split and she ran the 8.5 furlongs in 1:42.87.  I don't see how this puts Music Note at a different level when Zenyatta finished faster than her while being geared down.

You have to give credit to any horse that goes undefeated.  However, it's like Ohio State playing Indiana EVERY WEEK.  No matter how many times they play this year Ohio State will win.  Zenyatta is being called great and wonderful after each race and she is facing very average competition.  She beats average fillies by 2 lengths and everyone marvels at how she does it.  What? The horse is 5 years old and still running in races 1 1/16th ?  How many races ago did Rachel run her last 1 1/16th race ?  Zenyatta is 5 and has never gone beyond 1 1/8th and some are STILL talking about her perhaps going to the Classic ?  Stop! She is not going anywhere but to her first defeat in the Distaff.  Music Note is now a older horse and much better horse than what Zenyatta saw last year.  She has hidden and run in these silly JR. races all year in California but now the best from around the world are coming and Zenyatta has no place to hide.  Make no mistake my money will be on Music Note to win the Distaff. Maybe they can set up a match race with LIFE is SWEET on Breeders Cup day so Zenyatta can get another win because that will be her only chance of getting a win that day.

Competition matters.

Footlick ? Did you not watch the Beldame?  Did you not notice that a very good Unbridled Belle was alone on the lead and Music Note FLEW by her in a simple hand ride ?  Mild urging and she was gone and geared down long before the wire.  Watch the race.  Music Note beat the former G1 Beldame Champion Unbridled Belle by 2 lengths who did Zenyatta beat by 2 lengths... Lethal Heat who came in off a 1 week rest?  Pretend all you want Zenyatta is not on the same level right now as Music Note.

Zen and RA are great horses, that stated this HOY issue is going to be a popularity contest.Too bad for RA that her owner has a ego problem about tracks and distances. She couldn't win at a mile and a quarter in a field like they will have in the Classic , they kept her away from the mile and a quarter distance of the Travers  period.Zen could have faced the boys in the Goodwood which was a much stronger field the the Secret and don't forget she beat the same horses At The Same Weights!Where is the handicapping?If she runs in the Classic and beats or really finishes strong against the boys I would think she would be a strong candidate for America's HOY. RA no show  is a joke and the track excuse is Jessie's ego and fear that she couldn't beat the best at a mile and a quarter  less then that distance she'd have agreat chance.I think Rags to Riches beating Curlin at the belmont is just as much if not more then anything RA has done and she didn't get HOY though she beat the HOY Curlin. As i said it'll be a popualrity contest and not won on the track against the best competition.I don't want to hear any more excuses from Sheriffs, if she's that good put her in against the best in the Classic even then she'll get a weight allownace. Or avoid the boys to keep your unbeaten horse's record intact.Imagine now if Fl goes unbeaten and refuses to play in the BCS championship because they don't like the turf of the field the game will be played on , what a laugh the sports nation would have over that. Chamiponships are won playing or running against the best not resting on laurels and ducking the toughest comp.Anybody who is not biased couldn't possibly not agree that championships should be decided on the track not a popularity contest. Anything else is phony.

Yeah, I don't get the "Zenyatta beats nothing" stuff---she's a filly/runs against fillies/beats them all---just bread and butter horse trainer who doesn't duck anyone--making a horse prove it to the tune of 21 whip strikes/head down in winners circle is not something Shirreffs would want to do--that's all, plain and simple, they're not going that way--I wish they would try her in Classic but who am I to say what is right by that horse, Shirreffs has had her breathing fire everytime, if ya can't enjoy that horse, there's got to be some reason besides she never beat anybody--like I said she's a female horse, trained by a guy who's in charge (not the owner), who'd rather leave a little to the imagination rather than forcing her to prove it...

Regarding MTB's jockey, maybe a change should be made.  I thought Calvin was a "darling" among jockeys and had some sort of bond with MTB, but he seems to be getting no love now and I guess I can see why.  Calvin and the horse made magic together in the Derby, and the Preakness was a stellar effort on the part of the horse.  The Belmont didn't work out, okay, but finishing 3rd of 5 in the WVA Derby and OTB in the Goodwood, no one can say that has not seriously damaged the reputation of this nice horse.

I hear the connections are pushing on to the BC and I would have to vote for a switch to Joe Talamo.  If that doesn't work, then I'd say it's time for less ambitious spots.

I've been watching the replay of the Goodwood all morning on youtube. Now after having watched it more closely, I actually think MTB ran a HUGE race and that with an extra 1/4 mile he would at least have been fourth. Richard's Kid looked very strong too and might have overtaken the lead with an extra 1/4 mile.

Parading and Chocolate Candy were clearly fading--you can't even see MTB in the top 7 or 8 until he's almost even with Chocolate Candy just before the wire.

With an additional 1/4 mile he certainly would have passed Chocolate Candy, and would at least have been on even terms with Parading.  

youtube link:

www.youtube.com/watch

I recommend pausing it at 2:43--that picture says a 1000 words.

I don't think MTB has any problems with the surface at all (and even if he did once, which given his 2 y.o. campaign at Woodbine seems unlikely--think of his improvement this year over last from 12th to 6th against much a stronger field, and after a 10 week layoff).

He clearly has trouble with a mile and 1/8 and Calvin Borel's vested interest in not having him be the real deal (because then Borel has to accept blow back from the role he played in ruining MTB's, and our, Triple Crown this year).

Some stats for the Little Bird Haters--he has finished in the money 71% of the time this year (his brother 75% of the time). He has earned over 4 times his acquisition price, and over 189 times his original price. He's the 3rd highest earner this year, behind his brother and RA. How far away is Dunkirk from earning back his 3.7 million purchase price?

Jason you know a lot more about horses than I ever will. MTB beat two of your picks--Monzante and Tiago, and was closing on a 3rd Parading, who was only 4th--considering that you expected MTB to do poorly, are you surprised that he finished as well as he did?

Lance, good mention of Pashito the Che, game winner of the Gallant Bob at Philly Park. He brings to mind Thunderello, who followed his Gallant Bob victory with a strong second behind Orientate in the 2002 BC Sprint. Pashito the Che is BC nominated, and it will be interesting to see where he winds up next.

Do you think the Europeans are once again salivating over their BC chances this year? Those horses just love the Santa Anita surface.

Here's another fan hoping Zenyatta goes in the BC Classic. Agree with another writer that Trevor Denman's "condescending ease" call was brilliant.

What a week-end! If you're a racing fan, this was as good as it gets. Congratulations to the winners and thank goodness the horses all seemed to come out of the races in good form.

Will be arriving in L.A. on the 24th, a back side tour of the stables and breakfast at clockers corner on the 3rd, topping it off with a birthday week-end at the races on the 6th and 7th. Proudly wearing a Breeders Cup tee-shirt and sporting a Zendatta hat! Yep, a month in L.A. with friends, racing at Sanita Anita, great food any direction you look, what could be better?  Zenyatta is perfect and life is good. Oh yeah, Lentenor worked out this morning. If any of you Dublin supporters are still standing and need a life jacket, here's your Derby horse! Climb aboard.

Glad to see someone else noticed that MTB seemed to be running kind of funny.  I thought his action in front was too high.

He's had 10 weeks off and I don't know if that really constitutes a "rest" over being turned out for a couple months.  Same with RA.  She's at Churchhill, not turned out for R&R in a pasture.  What is the difference?  One is not being rested while the other is?

It seems that not all poly is alike and MTB has two races now on the Santa Anita track.  I'm assuming Woodbine is another kind of poly and that part of the problem with poly is that you can't compare one to the other that well.

I don't know if MTB should skip the BC or not, the Goodwood was not his distance and was supposed to be a prep race.  However, given his two results on the Santa Anita poly, seems like his connections should be thinking real hard about running him in the BC. Wait for next year.

I too, wonder about people who downgrade MTB when all he did is almost run RA down in the Preakness and placed in all three Triple Crown races.

I hope Tim Ice and connections are taking a good long look at MTB's race in the Goodwood because Summer Bird was not supposed to like the Santa Anita track, either.

Perhaps losing both MTB and Summer Bird to the Poly would resonate with those who made the decision to run on Poly two years in a row.

I've been watching MTB on the security cam and because of the quality of the feed, am wondering if he seems agitated or is that just the way he is?  If he's normally calm in his stall, I'd say he needs some time off.  If this is normal for him, he's just a busy body.

Zenyatta- wow.  She never seems to be going that fast to me.  Wonder what high gear would be like!?

And despite the fact I don't like Mike Smith on MTB, at least he's been forthcoming about the quality of his rides.

I'm still loyal to my boy--to the horse, for his own merits--but it looks like his last spark of "go" went out. Mine That Bird was spectacular in the Derby, repeated his game in the Preakness, and had a questionable Belmont (was it the jockey or the horse). But after a lackluster run at the W.Va Derby in which he couldn't fire even with horses barely above allowance grade, I knew. And this Goodwood made me shudder. When he was asked to move--he moved, but then he shut down. It was like he didn't want to do anything. He didn't even have the will to go up into the pack. Summer Bird, Sea the Stars, Zenyatta and Rachel actually do deserve the hype this year, something "hype" horses don't always do. Zen's 'Secret' was refreshing. Even if it was on the gotd@mned synthetic. Rachel's HOTY trophy should be shipped to Jackson now. And Summer Bird? 3 y/o colt of the year.

Boy I guess we just see what we want to see.  Take a look at the race again and notice how Lethal Heat was flying into the turn and got held up behind a wall of horses.  She doesn't get a seam until Zenyatta was by her and she still loses by just a little more than a length.  Without those traffic problems it would have been a much more interesting race.  After watching the race again there is no doubt in my mind that MTB is just not on the same level as other G1 horses.  The connections can pretend all they want but the results on the track say something else.  Right now he looks over matched and it's hard to watch.  After the Kentucky Derby I said MTB would not win another race all year.  Many said I was nuts and didn't have a clue what I was talking about.  Well I am here to remind you I was 100% right and take no pleasure in it because this horse deserves better and the connections in my opinion are not doing what is best for the horse.  Even Mr. Borel said he is better on dirt.  Give him a much deserved rest and bring him back fresh in 2010.

Mr Mandella and Mr Espinoza are teaming up in back to back biggies today! Times Gone By, improving son of The Giant, I love him in a weak field, am playing to win and underneath Precious passion and Artiste Royal.....next race is the Ancient Title, named for one of the all-time great Cal-Breds! Big strong tryer! I love mandella right back--Crown Of thorns, was closing 3rd in four horse field for comeback, but don't let that fool you--there were three tough guys in that race at Del Mar, and Crown Of Thorns closed well--today he'll get lots more speed to finish into! Ca-Ching!!!!

You ppl and your Breeders Cup really need to shut up. Back when there was no cup it was either the Triple Crown, JCGC, or Woodward that won HOTY, up until 25 years ago. That is half the age of the Woodward less than a quarter of any of the races in the Triple Crown! The Breeders Cup is way way way overate and is as phoney as the surface it is being run on. The only time it EVER decides HOTY is when a horse has been so dominant throught the year they run and win that race for fun. If they lose like Curlin did, then they are still HOTY. The only time it soley determines HOTY is if you have an equal matched pair or group SS, HS, Curlin and Lawyer Ron running, then whoever wins out gets the award. If it's like the first option, the horse who has been dominant all year does not NEED to win or even run. Holly Bull is a good example since he was shut down after his Woodward win. The REAL HOTY contenders should be RA, SB, and Gio, in that order. Zenyatta will get in on poppularity, and if she does win the ladies classic she will move up to third on the list, finshing well in the Classic would move her to second, but please, top horses have skipped out on the Cup before and still gotten the honor. The only reason it is being noticed here is because all the radical Zen supporters who hate JJ want to trash RA and make sure that no matter what she does she won't get HOTY.

Really think that was a strong Goodwood yesterday---Take nothing away from that winner Gitano Hernando, who just plain wanted it, as did Colonel John who ran lights out--Richards kid right there and Mine That Bird was finishing--just think those guys he was facing are the real deal, very possible the Classic winner was in the top three....

Dray

I guess that Music Note's connections are going to be beside themselves now that you stated that your money will be on her in the BC.......I know Music Note ran all those great races last year, but then she SHE RAN INTO THE MONSTER KNOWN AS ZENYATTA......I guess she will be another great pick for you just like DUBLIN, and, of course, Macho Again (in the slop).

Nothing against Col. John.....but since you started touting him, I'm still waiting for him to win.....I know MTB didn't win yesterday, but neither did CJ and he definitely had every chance to…..In fact from the top of the stretch home, MTB actually outran CJ.

You're right about one thing....competition does matter.....That's what the Breeders Cup is supposed to be all about.....So where is Rachel?.....And if she really is on the star level that you're touting her to be, WHY DIDN'T she run in the Travers?  Instead she took on a less than stellar group in the Woodward.....(an orchestrated schedule) for her so called win for the ages......I would think that Rachel's connections might be thankful that the BC is on synthetics because at this point if the BC was on dirt, any way you slice it, they would be looking for an excuse to opt out because if she ran her Bubble would burst.

If Zen goes in the Classic and wins, she deserves HOY because no matter what you say, a win there would be far superior to anything that Rachel ever accomplished and Zen would still be undefeated…..And if SB wins the Classic he should get HOY.  I know Rachel defeated him in the Haskell, but her connections know that-that was a one-time thing and that she will never beat him again.

littlebirdstillgotwings - I love your passionate defense of Mine That Bird.  I don't much care where he runs or if he wins, he'll still be the horse that won my heart and I expect to be following his career for many years to come.

As for the jockey issue: CB is a dirt-track guy and I have to think the surface matters to the jockey almost as much as it does to the horse.  I don't go so far as to say MTB would've won the Goodwood, but I think he'd have done better with a jockey who is more familiar with the track & the surface at OSA.  Joe T, yes, or any of the guys who ride CA circuit regularly.

I do believe that the rider MTB seems to have "bonded" with most is Jamie Theriot, through the many works at CD & Saratoga, and hope to see how that translates to a race someday. I feel real bad for Jamie being taken off Dublin, too (he thought he had his "Derby horse" for sure).

God forgive me Littlebirdstillgot wings, but I laughed my head off over you "Golum Borel" and I like him. But you are right, they need a new jockey for MTB. I vote for Talamo as well.

O.k. here is my vote for Zenyatta, I want her to run in the BCC and not the distaff. I think she would prove we haven't seen her bottom yet. I think she is capable of winning it as well. She is an impressive horse. But they will have to run a little different race if they go that route. However, I bet they go to the distaff for an unbeaten season of 14 races. That's fine too and I believe she will win against all comers. Either way, I thinks she faces her toughest field of competitors.

MZ

Ghost Fleet ran unplaced as the 2-1 favorite in the Grey Stakes today at Woodbine.  No excuses.....The winner, Bear's Tough Guy with Da silva up and trained by Read Baker (same connections as Fatal Bullet), was the winner and might go to the Breeders Cup as the race was a 'win and you're in' and they are already taking Fatal Bullet and Biofuel a monster 2-yo winner of the Mazarine (win and you're in) yesterday.

Wow, another great observation.....Lethal Heat was flying but was behind a wall of horses and got held up......Tch! Tch! Tch!

It appeared to me that Zenyatta took 4 or 5 big strides, made the lead after her jockey steered her through a wall of horses, and coasted home (probably thinking about her bath and what she was going to have for supper).....THEY COULD HAVE WENT AROUND TWENTY TIMES AND LETHAL HEAT WOULDN'T HAVE CAUGHT HER!!!!!

Um... Lazmannick I bought a Dublin Derby future ticket because I am from Dublin, Ohio and lived on Dublin Rd. I am sure I will be buying several more tickets in the coming months but I will make my Derby pick May 1st 2010 not in 2009.

Lazmannick your last statement is just plain silly and sophomoric. Your entire last paragraph is complete nonsense and really deserves no further comment.  Anyone thinking Zenyatta could take on Gio or Colonel John and have a chance needs their head examined.  Enjoy her win over average horses and leave it at that.  Please rest MTB he has no business running in the Breeders Cup.

If Zenyatta is so amazing and has the ability to win anytime, anywhere, against anyone, then how come the only time she caught a sloppy track they scratched her???

Hmmmm....and why does she always face the same fields time after time. Her season absolutely pales in comparison to Rachel's, and anyone who says otherwise shouldn't even consider themself a fan.

Did Zenyatta beat Ruffian's records? No. She has not left her comfort zone unlike Rachel who after each victory, took on a new and more difficult challenge.

She WILL be Horse of the Year!!!!!

LDP, the name of this blog is Breeders Cup Chat and you're telling us to shut up?

LDP

I'm a "radical Zenyatta supporter",but I have no problem w/RA winning HOY. She deserves it!

RUFFIAN316

Look I totally agree with connections scratching Zenyatta back in the summer. Sorry you don't! Just maybe since you DON'T TRAIN HER THE CONNECTIONS HAVE BETTER INSIGHT. Think about it! Just like TVG stated yesterday,Zen's connections didn't cave in from pressure from media and fans. Too bad many are too stupid to realize they are lucky to witness a great horse running at five!

DRAYNAY

I agree that MTB should be put up until next yr. But,Zenyatta is dear to my heart and if you watched her yesterday she won without much effort.

O.K...here is a thought... Why don't they try something new with MTB??? The first thing I noticed was Calvin holding him back and moving him all the way over the rail.  There is no way your going to get your rail ride again. It's not going to happen. Every jockey in the race knows your game plan. Why not put MTB a little closer to the pace? Why not let him feel the heat of a little competition right from the start. The horse has been battle tested and he has guts. I think they are all so set on his one big run they don't know what else he is capable of. When he gets in to a dual...he has heart. Maybe its time to re-think the little guys running style. You can never re-live the derby. Take the talent you have and make something of it.

Zen was out for a stroll yesterday...even after the race she was anxious and pawing the ground. She is ready for more.....

Zenyatta seemed more playful than ever Saturday.  When she filed in with the other mares, she looked over at the people awaiting her presence and IMMEDIATELY started her funky dance.  It was hilarious;  she was more silly than usual.  I think there is something to what Anne Moss said about Zenyatta enjoying herself... which is strange to say about a race horse!?  She walked into the paddock area with her head down while extending her front legs in this unique dance that she does.  And then in the walking ring, knowing that all eyes are upon her and all conversation is about her, she struck her pose.  Standing as tall and still as she can for the photographers, while revelling in the ooohs and aaahs and joyish laughter, she then playfully pawed at the ground.  Does anyone remember another horse with as much personality?  During the race a lot of spectators, myself included, were just praying for her safety... the rest is gravy.  

The paddock area before the Goodwood was sensory overload.  The Mosses were there standing alongside the rest of the spectators watching Tiago being saddled, who looked great.  Harty saddled beautiful Colonel John.  Baffert and his entourage were present with Richard's Kid.  And, the gorgeous standout Parading was strutting around.  But I couldn't stick around to watch as much of that scene as I would have liked because I needed to get all the way over to the far end to see #10.  Mine That Bird is definitely a cutie.  I'm just wondering if the circus that surrounds him every time he runs is affecting his performance.  It was magnificent to hear the cheers and see the smiles from the large crowd for MTB and Borel as they made their way from the saddling area to the walking ring.  It was one of those special moments that would put a smile on anyone's face.  

Today I heard something about MTB, but don't know how much weight to give it.  I heard an insider say that other trainers that have seen MTB train have commented that everytime MTB was on the track he was "sore".  Can anyone shed any light on this?

Greg J, bless you.  I wish everyone showed their heart like you do.  My jubilation over Zenyatta was tempered by my dark memories of the previous Saturday's Cal Cup.

I think Zenyatta is capable of racing the big one against the boys. She loves the surface unlike alot of the them. She might be the ONLY one competitive against the Euros.

I think the Moss's and John Shirreff should consider one of two possibilities. Race Zenyatta in the BCC against the boys or race her in the distaff AND comeback in 2010 as long as she is healthy. She has more in her and I don't think 13 straight is her limit. I would love to see her match Citation's 16 straight victories. She can also go 10 furlongs IMO.

But if this were me, I would race her in the distaff and IF she wins, comeback in 2010. She could go 1 more year. That would up the ante with the Jacksons. Zenyatta is a great horse regardless of what they do, but it would be fantastic to see her one more year and set even more records and then Draynay will even agree LOL. it would be great for the sport too.

Ruffian, no Zenyatta has not beat Ruffian's records, but she has set one of her own. NO ONE is ever going to forget Ruffian. She has her own immortality. No need to diss one to raise the other. There is enough love to go around. Ditto Rachel and Zenyatta.

There are some on this board who prove over and over again they don't know very little about race horses. To say MTB doesn't belong in the BCC is just plain dumb. In a race he clearly needed he got beat 3 3/4 lengths and galloped out pretty good.

Everyone quit arguing about who will get HOTY! It's going to be Rachel A. Sorry, but Zenyatta doesn't have a chance! Beating the same horses(fillies & mares only) over and over again on the same tracks, doesn't get anyone HOTY. Beating other males, setting track records and doing it on various different tracks without even trying, now that gets her HOTY!

Ruffian.....I don't consider myself a fan.....I really don't have to think about that.....I AM A FAN and I think in realistic terms, not spur of the moment oh “I think I'll jump on this bandwagon” BS.

I’ve got nothing against Rachel and believe it or not, if Rachel wins HOY I won't have a problem with it, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with it.  I really do believe she had a great season, but I also believe it was orchestrated in a cute way.  For instance, do you think that if a legitimate G-1 horse would have shown up in the Woodward that she would have run in it, or do you think they would have conveniently opted out and went to the Beldame?  Of her formidable foes in the Haskell, Munnings was distance challenged, and SB was coming off a tough Belmont……If she was so formidable why not go in the Travers?  All we hear from the bandwagon riders is that she defeated Summer Bird…..why not face him again in the Travers, or why not skip the watered down Woodward and go in the JCGC?

Our little friend stated that Zenyatta barely broke 1.43 in the Lady Secret…..I took him to task saying that in three tries at 1-1/16M Rachel had never beaten 1.43……By saying that I’m not trying to downgrade Rachel…..I’m simply stating a fact and I’m defending Zenyatta.

I can enjoy Rachel for what she did and I was cheering just as loudly for her in the Woodward as anyone……It just ticks me off that the so-called fans look for any way possible to try and belittle what Zenyatta has accomplished….They race where they race…..California is their home base…….If you think Rachel is so great, then great horses or champions should be able to overcome adversities and rise to the challenge…..that’s what horse racing is anyway isn’t it, a challenge?  Rachel should be in the BC……Summer Bird is going even though the pro-ride is not his favorite surface…..MTB likes synthetics…..the Woodbine Polytrak, not the Pro-ride (they are dramatically different), but his connections are willing to try it anyway……You belittle Zenyatta because she opted not to run on an off track (it was off when they scratched)…..yet no one is allowed to say a word because Rachel’s connections don’t want her to run on the Pro-ride.

Real champions rise to the occasion and right now the occasion is the Breeders Cup.  Anything Rachel has accomplished this year will forever be tarnished because they chose ot to go.

I'm still a MTB fan as well. I also noticed he seemed very agitated when I watched him on the security cam. I hope is is ok.

He always brings a smile to my face when I watch him run. A little horse with a huge heart. I think he should be rested and brought back next year, so we can enjoy him some more.

Dranay you are a fool--Zenyatta destroyed Music Note last year, did you forget? Right, Music Note is better than Zenyatta LOL! Before you speak disrespectful about the Zen's competition, please look at RA competition. She literally beaten nobody. MTB is a claimer at Anita, oh boy won by a diminishing length, Summer Bird is a high allowance horse at Anita--She beat him in the MUD, and than older horses in the Woodward, who probably compete in middle claimers at Anita. Give me a break, It has been documented that Mr. Jackson ducked Zenyatta,  Zenyatta was pre-entered into the Beldame, Mr. Jackson switched to the Woodward giving Zenyatta's team less than 10 days to react. Mr. Jackson soley has ruined this rivalry.

ITA Karen, MTB needs a new game plan and new rider. I would not run him in the BCC, Draynay is absolutely right about that. I would give him the rest of the year off. He does not like the surface, I don't care what anyone says. Even Calvin acknowledged it. Let him comeback next year after a little rest. I can't believe they would run him sore. I am still a MTB fan and look forward to seeing him whenever he runs.

    Now that is more like it!  Great run by Presious Passion!  Now, I just need Atta Boy Roy or Crown of Thorns to Win the Ancient Stakes and I take the Pick Six!!!(I went All in the 9th)....I need this, Has been a Long Weekend :(

MTB has HAD several running styles. The run on the front was changed after that fiasco. Calvin and Mike BOTH moved him too soon and he stalled out. The rail trip in the Derby wasn't the TOTAL reason for him winning the Derby, he ran like a freight train in the Derby. For those saying the connections aren't doing right by the horse? HE loves to run. A LOT of these horses do and get irritated when they don't.

But, OBVIOUSLY you know NOTHING about racing when you don't realize that finishing on the board in a G1 as Mine That Bird has done SEVERAL times THAT is a GOOD G1 horse. That statement about not doing them justice is crazy, but oh well what's new.

Zen will be 6 years old. I think she's done plenty and I'm sure Jerry and especially Ann will do what's best for her.

hellsbelles, I have relatives in NM who know Chip and Doc Blach, have visited with them about MTB and they watched MTB work both times at the Downs. They said he seems fine. A buddy of mine who is in racing at SA said he looked really good in his last work. I kind of have to agree with Calvin who apparently said right after the race that MTB was better on dirt.

Got to watch the races but not the before and after talk from the track we were at.

Hey win that dinner with Mike and ask him, but my buddy says watch Mike next time. Holds the reins in both hands and cues her with his legs. Pretty amazing for a race mare to do that, but then again she's totally amazing.

LDP what determines HOY is strictly the votes of turf writers and racing secretaries. It has become TOTALLY political. Don't think so? Look back on some who have won it. Even Frank Stronach who won it last year (in a surprise to a lot) said it should be on a point system. The 1999 trainer of the year? Even Bob Baffert was SHOCKED that he won it.

Don't think this particular blog is discussing HOY anyway.

Jamie has had a tough go of it, some trainers took some heat for riding him. However, if you KNEW Wayne? You'd know if he has a top notch horse he will be having a top notch jockey with Derby experience on him.

Hey I hope DN gets off Dublin, that'd be getting rid of bad karma for sure.

Gayego....WOW.....The sprint is shaping up as one of the best races in the BC card.

Precious Passion very impressive, but caught between a rock and a hard place......Not enough stamina to last 1-1/2M against the turf monsters that will show up, and though he is fast, he doesn't have the speed required for the mile.

Impressive wins today by Precious Passion ang Gayego at Santa Anita.  Both horses look like strong contenders on BC day.

HorseFirst - Sorry MTB finished that far back, anyone know if he managed to uncork that furious last minute drive of his and just ran out of ground (Quite expected), or just never fired at all, or didn't get a very good ride?  Didn't race well on the synthetic?

I was there live and here is what I can tell you (trying to repeat what I wrote elsewhere:

It was not a bad race by Calvin.  MTB was amped in the Paddock and was calm by the Post Parade.  He relaxed right off the start and he looked good on his first move on the far turn.  I had a perfect view coming off the top of the stretch - a gap opened on the outside, Borel pointed him inside and he still gained some ground for his sixth.  

All in all, he wasn't in top form but my sense coming from Woolley, Blach, and Allen was very low key.  In other words, this was a prep, informational race.  It doesn't make sense to push the horse for a $350,000 race when he is being pointed toward a $5 million dollar race.

He did not look tired at all at the end of the race, you couldn't even see him breathe.  So all in all, it was not a bad race for the horse (Calvin didn't push him AT ALL FWIW), and it was not a bad ride by the jockey.  

MTB is way more intense in person.  VERY spirited horse who looks like he has matured in the last 6 montha but has some more growth to go in that department.  I wanted him to show in this race but after watching the replay several times I agree with Calvin's assessment - his front end comes up too far during the stretch run and likely needs more grip on the back end. Just my take.

He is a grade 1 horse but looks to be lower on his form cycle since the WVa Derby.  He needed this race to prep for sure.

Ruffian and Zenyatta have something in common both never beat males.

All this happy talk of Zenyatta winning without effort, I thought the point of racing was effort. Oh sorry, we love watching the strong trample on the weak.

helsbelles - I hope you are wrong about MTB being "sore".  I honestly find it hard to believe that group of owners/trainer would take any chances.  I was also there and noticed for the first time his "funny gait" after the race wonder if that has something to do with him looking sore.  His legs really kicked out a bit on his warm down after the race.  It really looks awkward so just curious if that is what they are noticing.  I just can't imagine that ownership group running him sore - they fully intend to race him next year.

Mine That Bird ran a good prep race in the Goodwood which should set him up well for the 10 Furlongs BCC.  I think that even his harshest critics, upon remembering their fate in the Kentucky Derby will think twice about ignoring him totally on the next biggest day in racing.  If he works well leading up to the Breeder's Cup Classic it will be foolhardy to leave him out of calculations, because the horse has demonstrated in the Triple Crown series that he has the class to win again and again at the highest level.  His connections missed some wonderful opportunities with him in the offtrack conditions of the Haskell, Travers and Jockey Club Gold Cup but he will by no means out of his league in the BCC at Santa Anita.  Ignore him at your handicapping peril.

Mike,

    When I say radical, I mean have all the love in the world for Zenyatta, would make any excuse for her in the book, yet will bash anything RA does to make Zen look better. You are not one of those radicals.

Karen in Indiana,

    My comment was to the Breeders Cup idiots who think a race that has been around 25 years should be considered more important that races that are at least twice it's age and have been champion crowning races in the past. It is nothing to do with the blog, so if you want to twist my words to make them have a different meaning, fine, just goes to show that you'll do anything to make another person look bad.

LDP - I'm pretty sure nothing that is said on these blogs has any impact on Eclipse voting. But boy if it did..... LOL.

Euro - I don't think anyone can argue that the European horses are better than our GRASS horses in general.  Everyone knows synthetics play like turf, so why is it such a big deal if the Euro's come over here and win on it?  It just proves that they are better grass horses but most of us already know that.  Question is, will the Euros be coming over here when they have to face our best horses on the DIRT?

Dray - you goof.  Zenyatta won with devastating ease yesterday. Mike Smith said she didn't even take a deep breath after the race. She has much, much more left in her tank and I think she would relish a mile and a quarter.

I agree Careless Jewel and Music Note are outstanding fillies, and would make for a great Distaff field with Zenyatta.  I would put my money on Z though, especially at 10-1 (oh how i wish!).  

Horse Of The Year debate is raging yet again!  There is a good case to be made for Zenyatta "if" she wins the Classic against an international field.  A nearly perfect case can be made for Rachel Alexandra, she's been running the entire year and only now has taken a VERY well deserved rest.  Zenyatta was on the sidlines for the first half of the year and is still facing the same old fillies and mares.  

 Winning the Classic would be an amazing feat for Zenyatta, but one amazing race doesn't equal a string of record setting, history defying races like Rachel has put together.  Zenyatta has won four races this year, possible five if she remains undefeated through the Breeders Cup.  Rachel Alexandra has won all eight of her starts this year, at many different tracks in different states, on different surfaces, against different foes and in different conditions.

Rachel Alexandra, Horse Of The Year!!

PP was fantastic today, I just love to watch him run. I know he's not the best, but on firm ground he's unlike anything any Euro has seen. They are used to closing kicks being the be all end all, PP just opens up and keeps on going. Love this horse.

GUN BOW,

In your comments on the Rachel Alexandra vs Zenyatta debate you made a very uncharacteristically ludicrous suggestion about co-HOY.  By what alchemy could you derive such an absurd scenario this year that involves a sharing of the HOTY title with Rachel Alexandra?  An astute student of the game such as yourself should know full well that Zenyatta has no shot, given her now infamously timid campaign and Summer Bird, like Easy Goer to Sunday Silence back in 1989, is at best second best despite winning the Belmont, Travers and Jockey Club Gold Cup (he could lose that spot to Gio Ponte depending on the outcome of the BCC in which both are entered).

At this stage the only probable threat to RA's HOTY title should be Sea The Stars if he were to come and conquer in the BCC (inspite of all the parochial nationalistic views to the contrary).  

Also should add, that I am a huge Zenyatta fan and I think she would fly home in the Classic against everyone.

Okay, really, is it not possible to support both Rachel AND Zenyatta? I mean my heart is a little more with Z, but Rachel is a brilliant filly who, yes we perfectly understand is going to be Horse of the Year.

As for MTB, I just thing he simply doesn't like the Santa Anita track. And I feel maybe his owners just need to give him some time off to chill out in a pasture and enjoy himself for a while. Then bring him back fresh for 2010 and run him on DIRT. I mean, obviously I'm not his owner or trainer, but he seems a little worn out...

Well LDP if we go by your theory, the Travers being the oldest of the most important races The TC races are pretty equivalent in age, like 2-3 difference from oldest to newest 130+ years for each. Yet the MOST prestigious of those is undoubtedly the Derby. Everything else is irrelevant?

The Haskell has been run since 1968 and the Woodward since 1954m baby races in time compared to the others.  

The Breeders Cup idiots as you put it? Well the NTRA was a co-partner in them and also the driving force behind the Eclipse awards. Which, by the way have only been around since 1971. Part of the reason it was developed was to showcase

'CHAMPIONS' and help make the decisions in the divisions easier. Not the SOLE reason for it but calculated into it when it was close, in theory. What happened to the Eclipse awards is the special interest situations, favoritism, politics etc.

Runfast,

    It is just annoying to me that ppl have stated before that RA has done nothing at all, and just because she will not show at the Cup she should not be allowed HOTY. I do not agree with the football comparison or baseball, where you have distinct leagues, leaderships and division. Their games are played in matches, not in fields. If you were to compare racing to someone in track not showing to the Olympics or something then fine, but honestly the Super Bowl and BC are nothing alike and should not be compared, racing is not done in strictly match races. Back to the point anyway, which was BC may be important, but there are races out there MORE important. We have seen horses lose before and not run before in the Cup and they have still gotten HOTY. Just because RA will not be attending should not discount the year she has put togeather. That was my main point, just to clear my earlier rant up.

Shawn P,

    It's not, my post was a rant at a build up at ppl acting like the Cup was the be all end all, then another post by a person who basiclly stated RA should't get HOTY because she's not running in the Cup. That was the straw that broke the camels back and got me started on my rant.

By the way. Since WHEN is it HOTY?

That may be cutesy with a filly or mare but it's always been referred to as HOY.

Horse of the Year and Champion Three-Year-Old Male: Curlin

HOY Vote totals:   Curlin, 249; Rags to Riches, 12; Invasor (ARG) 2;  Corinthian, 1; English Channel, 1; Street Sense, 1.  Voter Abstentions, 1.

Just a pet peeve I guess, but HOTY sounds like teenage girls talking about a cute guy.

Shawn P,

    Point is the Cup is not the be all end all. Ghostzapper had been the most dominating in his group before winning the Classic, so really did he need the Classic? Curlin went in last years Classic and lost yet still got the win because he had such a great season, winning other races with much more historical significance. Holly Bull was so dominant in his division that he went into the Woodward and then skipped the Cup and still got HOTY. Back when there was no Classic the ways you got HOTY was the TC, meaning you win the whole thing, you win the Woodward or JCGC, or even both. Winning Two thirds of the Crown, a Travers and a win against older will certainly give you consideration, if not give you HOTY. The only time where the race actually decides HOTY is when you have two horses that have been going at it and trading punches all year, or have a group of dominant horses that the only race left to determine who is better is the Cup. It is overrated, and as i said as phone as the surface it's being raced over.

CBman, and all the rest of you talking about Z's competition being weak?

Bet you'd like to have a weak one like Cocoa Beach who's won close to 2 million $. Oh but wait, all of you dismissing these horses like MTB, Cocoa Beach, etc DON'T have any horses or nothing like a Graded stakes winner.

However if you guys stick by that theory, then Rachel (who I think is terrific) has run against even weaker fields than Zen.

LDP... what do the high schoolers think about HOTY?  Rachel... all the way!!!!  Publish it in Bloodhorse.teenybopper.mag.com. How precious.

I agree MTB has had other running styles but 3 year olds change and develop during this very formitive year. They need to stop worrying about him putting in that one big run. Not a good thing on synthetic anyway. The turn of foot is nothing like dirt. In my opinion, horses have to be much fitter to run on synthetic. MTB was no fluke. He proved that in the Preakness and the Belmont. Put him back on dirt or put a jockey on him that knows him.

Dray..although it is exciting to see filly's take on the boys and win....it is not mandatory. A filly can be great without beating the boys. That's kindof a cheap shot you took at the stellar Ruffian who broke down during her match race with FP. Not cool.

Shawn, running at age 6 is not unheard of in the history of horse racing. It is not a question of whether she has done enough. By any measure, she has. I agree that Ann and Jerry Moss will do what they think is in her best interests. However, if she DID run age 6, it would be great for the sport and add to her legacy.

Rachel Alexandra is Horse of the Year, regardless of what happens in the BCC. Her campaign has been exceptional. If Zenyatta wins the BCC then it adds to her legacy and there will be no discussion about her greatness from ANYONE.

Ranagulzion, "parochial nationalistic?" You have got to be kidding. Our horses aren't in the running for any Euro horse awards. You must be a member of the Nobel Prize committee.

Yes....it is possible to love both Zen and RA without comparing. I do.

Just a comment about RA's schedule. Had she went to the Travers there would have been those complaining she "dodged" the older males and chose to run against horses she already beat. You can't make everyone happy.

I thought Z was fabulous yesterday as she always is.  No arguments here about Z's brilliance.  I don't think anyone should slam her for anything.  Perfect is perfect.  I don't understand the slams to Rachel.  She's criticized for not having raced 10 furlongs.  Has Z?  Both horses are exceptional why slam either of them?

Why would we award STS HOY?  Isn't that an award for horses running in the US?  Even if he came here and won the classic, why give him HOY?

I don't know why any of us argue about HOY.  The bloggers don't have a say anyway unless some of them are turf writers.  

Mike Relva

Great...if that's what is best for the horse I'm all for it, but the fact is they didn't want to run her on a sloppy track. Are you denying this?

Also, I'm far from stupid. I have a deep appreciation for Zenyatta...always have...but the comments I keep reading from her connections and some others are upsetting. Implying that Zenyatta

deserves HOY over Rachel and that Rachel ducked Zenyatta is just absurd.

All but one of her victories came in California.

She has never faced a male.

There is no getting around these two facts.  

Having said that, can you remember the last time a horse campaigned in the races Zenyatta did in 2009 to achieve HOY honors? I certainly can't.

This is why I get so upset when people try to make ridiculous claims such as, "Rachel was ducking serious competition in the Travers to face weak older horses in the Woodward."  What a joke. Who in their right mind makes a claim such as that? It doesn't take a genious to figure out that she passed the 3-year old colt test and stepped up to the highest level in facing older males. Whom was she ducking by facing older males? To put a negative spin on that achievement as somehow ducking tough competition is silly and an obvious attempt at artificially making Zenyatta look better.

The funny thing is that I've been on both horses bandwagons all along, but felt the need to point out why Rachel deserves HOY based on history.

Someone else commented that, "that's where Zenyatta runs, why should they leave?"  I love how it only works one way.

Someone also said that "Champions run in the Breeders Cup, and Rachel's campaign will forever be tarnished."  Well, with that line of thinking, every great horse before 1984 who had stellar campaigns in their respective years weren't really that great because they didn't run in the Breeder's Cup.

But Breeder's Cup didn't exist so how could they run in it, you say? Well good point. Actually that's the whole point. I'm looking at the entire history and tradition of horse racing...something I value greatly. It has existed for so long and there is much precedent to consider when debating HOY.

Horse racing shouldn't be all about a Superbowl...it should be about who had the best campaign ALL YEAR LONG.

Put the two horses past performances next to each other from this year and honestly say that Zenyatta's was better. I cannot.

One last important point. I love Zenyatta. Take nothing away from her. She has done everything that has been asked of her, and I think she is a gorgoeus individual. I do appreciate her accomplishments, but I can't honestly say that she had a more impressive year that Rahel. Sorry if I offended anyone because I know how it feels when you think someone is diminishing something you love. Unfortunately, I've read one too many comments doing that very thing to Rachel and that is why I originally posted.

MTB will be fine for the Classic. Don't like Borel on him. Joe T. seems like a better choice. I do think Zenyatta could win the Classic.

Oh yeah...and to say that it's good for Zenyatta's connections to scratch her when they felt it was best and not cave in to media pressure, but Rachel's connections should cave in and run her at SA where they don't feel it's best is extremely one-sided.

When Zenyatta loses at the Breeders Cup I want all of you to come here and give me your best excuse why she got whipped.  I can tell you why right now.  She has been protected and faced average competition.  When she faced real competition she folded.  But hey, 13 and 1 isn't bad.  There is a big difference between a 3 year old Music Note and a 4 year old Music Note.  Watch the Beldame again and watch her win in a hand ride blowing by lone speed.

Ranagulzion:

Note that I wrote that, no matter what, Rachel should at the very least receive co-HoY. I do not see any way Rachel is not HoY, whether by herself or as co-HoY. Also note that I wrote that it would not bother me, personally, if Zenyatta and Rachel shared HoY if and only if Zenyatta were to win the Classic. I was stating a personal opinion or preference, that I wouldn't be upset if there was such an occurrence. I would be upset, however, if after a win in the Classic, Zenyatta was awarded the HoY by herself; voting Zenyatta HoY OVER Rachel would be an injustice.

As for Sea the Stars, neither he nor any horse should be awarded the North American Horse of the Year off only 1 race in the States or Canada. Never! The HoY Eclipse is a North American award, just as the Cartier HoY is a Euro award. In any event, Sea the Stars will not run in the Breeder's Cup. I wish he would, but it ain't gonna happen.

Hurray for Presious Passion. I knew I hadn't seen the real PP in the Arlington Million. Give him a fast turf course, and he is one of the most exciting runners in the game, as a 6 year old!

Cindi:

Good analysis of Mine That Bird. I agree that his front-leg action looked too high in the Goodwood. He didn't run badly in the Goodwood, but he will have to be much, much faster to win the Classic.  I wouldn't count him out, but even a return to his Derby/Preakness might leave him a few lengths short, and it is doubtful whether he can reproduce a top effort on the Pro-Ride. At odds of 20-1 or higher he might offer some value, but given his popularity, it is likely going to be hard to get him above 12-1.  

Paula,of course your horses wont win any European HOTY titles - due to the fact that none of them race over here usually. Grass racing is the worldwide sport. Dirt racing for the most part the local American aberation. For a country your size, you have only a few decent tracks - Churchill,Keeneland, Belmont, Saratoga, Arlington,Del Mar and Santa Anita. The rest are mostly local small rubbishy tracks. Look at great turf horses like Giants Causeway and Sakhees efforts in the Classic. Amazing, Could you imagine adirt horse like Cigar, Easy Goer, Seattle Slew or Affirmed running in an Arc? Midfield finish at best. The best grass horses in the world are bred in Europe. Grass races are the tradional races. Dirt races are what they are. Not sure what that is, but it isnt grass racing. Zenyatta and the people who follow her ( mostly female ) need to get out more. She is a horse. A fast horse and a good one but a horse at the end of it all.This isnt a popularity concert - take down your posters. This isnt one of those tv "talentless" shows where u vote for the loudest idiot. This is the sport of kings. please dont stand in from of me in the parade ring and inform me how pretty she looks. I dont care. If i back her and she wins then great. If she loses and i dont back her, so what. If she follows the path of Ferdinand, that would be a pity, but i wont lose sleep over it - at the very least she will make a few Japaneese very happy for a while.        

Karen2:

On MTB, alot of folks on this board, and Chip himself, were critical of the "early move" rides by Borel in the Belmont and Smith in the W.V. Derby.  The fact is, when MTB has been placed closer to the pace, like at Sunland or in the WV Derby, he hasn't been able to produce the same stretch kick; the same is true when he is asked to kick earlier in a race, like in the Belmont.  The ride Borel provided in the Goodwood was EXACTLY what Chip and most of his fans on here had been demanding after the WV Derby and Belmont.  

The fact is, MTB has turned in two rather mediocre performances in his most recent races. In the first, he was positioned closer to the pace and asked for any early move while in the second he was allowed to settle back well off the pace and then make one run in the stretch.  Given the tactics changed, but the results didn't, perhaps it isn't the jockey or the ride that's wrong. Maybe, it's the horse? And I ask this question with the greatest respect for MTB. I was at Churchill for his memorable Derby win and drove over 4 hours to see him in West Virginia. Of course, in the Goodwood, it's possible it was simply a matter of MTB not liking the Pro-Ride. If that's the case, as Borel suggested, then I hope his connections are able to recognize this and re-route him from the Classic to the Clark. If MTB has anything more to give this year, we're most likely to see it at Churchill.

Dray:

Yes, Music Note looked very good beating the 2007 Beldame winner, Unbridled Belle.  But Zenyatta looked pretty good as well, easily defeating a field that included Cocoa Beach, last year's Beldame winner! C'mon, how is beating the Beldame winner of 2 years ago more impressive than beating the Beldame winner of last year? In any event, Zenyatta already owns a win over Music Note, having beaten her comfortably in last year's Distaff.

I like Music Note as well, and give her alot of respect for having won 5 grade 1 races.  However, the argument that Music Note beat a better field in the Beldame than Zenyatta beat in the Lady's Secret is not persuasive.

I don't agree with what some people are saying about giving MTB "a rest"

He's been resting all summer.  Why would you give him another layoff when he just returned recently?  It doesn't make sense.  Horses don't get faster off a layoff.  They get faster in the 3rd start of their form cycle.

I do agree that he's a better horse than dirt.

And forget MTB for a while.

Can someone tell me if there is something wrong with Tiago?  Is he still going to try the Classic or is he done?

LDP:

I agree that the Breeders Cup has never been the "be all and end all" in determining Eclipse awards. I also agree that any attempt to compare the Breeders Cup to the Super Bowl, World Series, or NBA Championship is plain misguided if not ignorant.  Eclipse awards, and the Horse of the Year in particular, reflect year-long accomplishments, and if anything are more closely related to the ESPY awards for top golfer, top jockey, or best male/female athelete.

Even in the Breeder's Cup's 1st year, 1984, the HoY went to John Henry, a horse that had not run in the Breeder's Cup. What about 1985? Well, HoY went to Spend A Buck, whose last race came in the Iselin in August!

1990 HoY- Criminal Type: did not run in the Breeder's Cup. Last raced in the Woodward(ran 6th), and the last race he won was the Whitney in early August.

1994 HoY- Holy Bull: did not run in the BC. His last race was a win in the Woodward.

1996 HoY- Cigar: ran only 3rd in the BC Classic.

1998 HoY- Skip Away: ran just 6th in the BC.

1999 HoY- Charismatic: did not run in the BC. Last raced in the Belmont Stakes in early June, running 3rd.

2001 HoY- Point Given: did not run in the BC. His last race was the Travers.

2003 HoY- Mineshaft: did not run in the BC. His last race was a win in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.

2008 HoY- Curlin: ran 4th in the BC Classic.

Other champions that did not run in the BC the year they won their Eclipse: Swale, Mom's Command, Snow Chief, Tiffany Lass, Forty Niner(87'), Risen Star, Brown Bess, Housebuster(90'), Laugh and Be Merry, Hansel, Flawlessly(92'), Prarie Bayou, The Wicked North, Maria's Mon, Thunder Gulch, Possibly Perfect, Skip Away(96'), Yank's Music, Wandesta, Silver Charm(97'), Ryafan, Smoke Glacken, Real Quiet... okay I'm tired of this. And this doesn't include all the horses that won an Eclipse after losing in the BC, horses like: Life's Magic(84'), Slew O Gold(84'), Family Style, Vanlandingham, Turkoman, Estrapade, Alysheba(87'), North Sider, Groovy, Easy Goer(88'), Winning Colors, Sunshine Forever, Open Mind(89'), Blushing John, Safely Kept(89'), Go for Wand(90'), Itsallgreektome, Queena, Tight Spot, Housebuster(91'), Saratoga Dew, Pleasant Tap, Sky Classic, Rubiano, Dehere, Bertrando, Paseana(93'), Heavenly Prize, Sky Beauty, Paradise Creek, Serena's Song, Not Surprising, Singspiel, Hidden Lake, Banshee Breeze...and I'm up though 98' and tired again.  

A horse doesn't need to run in the BC to win an Eclipse or HoY.  

Shawn P,

    I don't know what your talking about, but I've seen it both ways. You ppl are downright pathetic if all you can find to pick on is the way I abreviate words. You say it's HOY, since when did Horse of THE year, become Horse of Year?

Karen, Chip said he watched film for hours and they tried the front running style that he ran in before the Derby and it was getting him beat more times than not. Chip didn't decide to go to it until the Derby. MTB ran in the Juvy last year at SA and his running style hadn't been tweaked then because they just got him.

Bob Baffert said a lot of people weren't giving Chip OR MTB enough credit. He was running on at the end in the Goodwood, but I think he sincerely doesn't like the Pro-ride.

Paula,

On Zen running at 6? That's kind of rare for a G1 horse who's not a gelding. IF they want to breed her the next thing they'd be hearing is how she's too old to be bred after she had a couple of foals. People just like to gripe, you know?

I don't care whether she runs or not, she's given us enough thrills to suffice. Those scary tracks in Cal?

You know all the talk about running her here or there? Seeing all those ladies with signs for her, how they love her out there and the status of California racing? I say it's more a benefit to them to have her boosting their racing than to take her out of State. Anybody ever consider that? Especially since Jerry is on the CHRB. Really it's almost an obligation for him to try and promote Cal racing, certainly is in the best interest of that jurisdiction. But the track surface....

Let's get one thing straight...Curlin is the reigning HOTY. If the connections of BB want to be HOTY, they must beat Curlin. It's up to them to enter BB in the Woodward or JCGC. Both horses are here in NY. No excuses. BB needs to beat Curlin to prove he is great. Curlin already is great and will repeat as HOTY if BB continues to duck him. End of story.

The connections of BB, especially Dutrow, are an embarrassment to the Racing Industry.

This post is by Saratoga AJ, and obviously he uses the same abreviations. So can those who claim to be adults on here actually act like for once?

LDP, the BC races ARE very important to racing and those in the industry. The best purses in the World outside of Dubai {and shipping that RUINS most horses).

The Eclipse Awards have become important in ego and breeding/syndicating only.

Well ego can be assuaged with 2-5 million $ and the breeding business is very iffy right now. The inconsistencies have led even people who won it to start questioning it, especially in recent years.

Ask someone in racing if they'd rather win an Eclipse or win a BCC.

No the BC isn't the end all to some, but WHY are people IN racing so p.o.'d about them being on synthetics and either having to change up EVERYTHING or just not run in them?

THIS isn't a discussion about HOY period.

HOY is now about a horse that isn't running and may NEVER run again.

BC Win and you're in and the BC is what we're talking about. Let it lie for once. By the way have any of you ever WATCHED the Eclipse Awards or been to them?

The HOY and all the other awards are announced, forgotten by the public (if they even know about them) and then it's the next great thing. It's an award given by a small group of people who are either loved or hated (or both) by those in the industry.

Racing isn't about a popularity contest and I think you are believing that the Eclipse awards are the only thing that defines greatness. But like ANYTHING based on VOTES (mostly by observers only) it's TOO subjective. What is it doing? Turning into Ice Skating or gymnastics or horse shows where the judges are giving THEIR opinion. Prom queen selection or whatever?

Make it a point system and whoever REALLY wants to and cares about winning it will schedule their races TO win it.

Monica I think the sensible people are not slamming RA, just saying they believe she can't get that far. The reason it was mentioned by people in the game is that the Travers, which was actually televised, is run at that distance. THAT race, why people wanted her to run in it? A more high profile race to the GENERAL public than what she did run in. What was really in public view then as far as sports? Not too much and the Travers would have given people a chance to see the filly and see she was still running and develop that fan base we keep talking about. She won the Preakness, then to the casual fan, just sort of disappeared from the public view.

I agree on the HOY argument. Turf writers and racing secretaries we ain't. And they don't listen to us either. Unless they want to start a poll and whoever wins the poll is who the writer votes for? Then it's twice as biased, if possible.

Mine that Bird; one and done! Let's face it. It was a miracle Derby and not likely to occur again. Does Gato Del Sol ring a bell?

Now we're dissing highschoolers?

Frankly, I think far too much is made of the Eclipse Awards.  Outside of a trophy on the mantel for the winning connections, what does it really mean to anyone else?  Without looking it up, can you remember who was HOY (just for you Shawn P) in 1999?

It was Charismatic.  And in 2001?  Point Given over Tiznow who had won his 2nd Classic. Oh, and Charismatic never made it to the BC races either. But, I'm getting off track.  

The point is, I think Eclipse Awards are "nice", but I think having an undefeated 7 time Grade I multi millionaire beats having an Eclipse for Horse of the Year. We all remember Personal Ensign and her place in history is much more than a HOY award. We will remember Zenyatta the same way, regardless of whether she wins an Eclipse for HOY.

Rachel's place in history will NOT be remembered because she won HOY, if she does.  It will be because of her total dominance over fillies, and determined wins in prestigious races like the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward over the boys.

Could not believe what I saw in the winners circle. Z looked like a horse that just had an easy gallop. She was pawing and looked like she was having a great time.

Strange that Borel wouldn't take any mounts prior to the Goodwood, but, stayed for the ninth to ride a MSW for Baffert.  Went to the lead out of the 8 hole, but, drifted out and faded in the stretch.

Great win by the AP shipper for Mary Hartmann, who, may have been heard complaining about the "yellow wax buildup" in the Winner's Circle.

Why was Jamie taken off Dublin? Also, does anyone remember reading a previous article about MTB connections talking about going to Dubai? I hope that they reconsider.

"I don't know why any of us argue about HOY.  The bloggers don't have a say anyway unless some of them are turf writers."

LOL, There is not a single topic discussed on this blog or any other that makes any difference to the men and women actually making a living in this sport. Of course WE HAVE NO SAY in the outcome. With your logic why discuss anything?  We can't make any difference in a horse a trainer or a race by talking and arguing our various points.

Blogs aren't about individuals changing the game or even making a difference.  The point of a blog like this is to ARGUE and DISCUSS OUR OPINIONS with other minds who care about this sport.

You would have to be delusional to think anyone with power in the sport is reading this blog and changing there own mind because of what some shadow said on a blog.

I am not saying your delusional, but, to think you thought you needed to say that... well.

LDP, the BC Classic IS more important than older races at Belmont that draw five- or six-horse fields with one or at most two standouts.  The Classic has had star-studded fields every year since it was first run.  Has it determined HOY every year?  Of course not, they weren't gonna give it to Volponi.

Don't know if you know this, but there was a race called the Ladies Handicap in New York, run since about the Civil War.  For a number of reasons, it just got more and more irrelevant until it was finally discontinued last year.  The point is, the sport is evolving, and like it or not this is the era of the Breeders' Cup.  Of course, Rachel Alexandra can and might still be HOY without participating in it.  But many fans feel her non-participation is a negative, not a positive.  And, as someone else pointed out,  the BC's the topic of this blog too!!

Paula Higgins,

I agree, sometimes top horses do run at the age of 6.  Right now we have Unbridled Belle.  I have mixed feelings about Zenyatta doing it, because she's so special, and I bet the Mosses do too.  Depending, of course on what happens at the BC, I think they will compromise and run her a time or two in the January-March period.  I do think they are committed to breeding her in 2010.

Weekend recap...zenyatta wins against the same stiffs she has already beat....yawn!! Most impressive race to me was HOMEBOY KRIS the horse is talented and will be a force next year. Gayego went from dud last year to superstar on synthetics its amazing to me that horses can be so much better on synthetics versus dirt. HOMEBOY KRIS that is my new horse of the year!

My thoughts over the weekend ...

1.  The Goodwood - Worked out for me.  I had the winner and a 20 cent superfecta that paid 575.  But honestly, what does that Euro winning say about the other Euro's chances in the Classic?  

2.  The Europeans - I personally think this is one of the most talented and deepest Euro groups ever.  I think they utterly dominate the US horses in the BC.  

If Sea The Stars comes for the Classic I think he wins.  And I would give him HOY if he comes and wins it.  If he doesn't I think Rip Van Winkle wins it.  

3.  Zenyatta - She is an awesome horse, and that performance was impressive for its ease.  I don't think she would win the Classic though.  And I think she might have her hands full in the Distaff with Music Note and the youngster.  I also don't think she deserves HOY over Rachel if she doesn't win the Classic.

4.  Mine That Bird - He is a good horse.  He's not a fluke or a bad horse.  But he is not the world beater some of his fans want him to be.  He's not Summer Bird or Quality Road.  

And the excuses for him are a bit tiresome.  He didn't have the right pace (WVA), he didn't like the track, his jockey didn't give him the best ride, he needed the race.  And on and on and on.  Bottom line is he needs a perfect trip to win the big ones and he's just not gonna get it the large majority of the time.  

One difference in Sea The Stars ... he makes his trip.  He can win on any course, in any country, and with any style, and at any distance.  To me that is the mark of the greatest horses.  

And I personally think that he is the greatest non-American horse of all time.  And I think if won the Classic he would be in the discussion of the greatest of all time.  

PAULA HIGGINS,

The world is now a "global village" as you should appreciate.   Therefore if you wish to maintain the international prestige of your top award for the horse with the most impressive string of performances in a season, the HOTY title should be open to any horse that has campaigned on american soil during the season of the award.  if it is a single appearance on an american track that performance has to be put in the context of the horse's campaign for the year against the highest international competition rated by the American racing fraternity.  In the case of Sea The Stars there is absolutely no doubt about the quality and magnitude of his accomplishments on the track this year.  Therefore if he should come to America and win the BCC, his claim for HOTY should be stacked up against Rachel Alexandra's and let the judges/voters decide.

There is often a huge difference between what IS and what OUGHT TO BE.  I believe that the right things should ALWAYS be done, those things that uphold the highest ideal of the sport which is excellence.

Regarding the Nobel Prize committee I quite admire their progressive way of thinking and their eschewing of that which has become merely traditional and parochial, in terms of their award of the Peace Prize this year.  Don't you?

No more talk of Zen in Classic-she doesn't belong there-I dare them too try

The Goodwood just proved that American horses wont do good in BC CLASIC

Paula Higgins,

Further to my response above let us acknowledge that whenever our owners/trainers of top horses become as enterprising as Wesley Ward and start shipping accross the pond to challenge the Europeans on their own turf then we will begin to see North American based European HOTYs.

Rose Catherine-Rose Catherine 2 year old filly-Slam DUNK -SLAM DUNK Super Star from Todd Pletcher barn

Would Sea The Stars be the m/l favorite for the Classic if it were at Churchill Downs?

Would the connections of Sea The Stars even consider the Classic at Churchill Downs?

Would one single person question Sea The Stars and his connections for not wanting to run there TURF horse on conventional DIRT for the Classic?

Would it not just be accepted that if Sea The Stars were coming for BC day at Churchill it would be for the Turf or not at all? ( please don't bring up George Washington, because that will only strengthen the argument that STS' connections would not even consider such a thing ).

Some on the other side of the pond( and here ) think that STS maybe the best that ever raced.  So, with little left to prove on turf, would STS and his connections be attacked verbally for the connections decision to "avoid" the dirt if that was their decision?

Of course not.

Everyone accepts that the best TURF horses and best DIRT horses are just that.  There have been very few that have been equal on both.

Yet the BC holds us hostage for two years on a synthetic track and still has the gall to call it "DIRT MILE"  and the Classic on "Dirt."  The fans who don't follow closely have no idea the difference in DIRT vs SYNTHETIC and the powers that be want it exactly that way.  The sad part is that they have largely succeeded in their underhanded behavior.

And where are the writers that cover this sport? Shame on all of you for not setting the record straight.  You in the media have let the BC shroud the truth from the public and are accessories.

The people who argue back and forth for RA and Zenyatta could care less about the facts, they just want to be right and enjoy the fight.  That fight has little to do with what most astute fans know ( including most of the ones who engage in the verbal battle between Zen and RA ).

Synthetics have to be categorized as their own surface or the public needs to be aware that they are NOT DIRT.  The fact is that synthetic surfaces, for a large majority of horses, plays like turf and that is not debatable at this point.

If Sea The Stars came over and won on Pro-Ride synthetic it would not surprise me in the least if he was proclaimed the greatest of all time for winning against the best on turf and dirt.  There wouldn't be a single writer with the nads or smarts to recognize what has happened and say it in writing.  The media is supposed to be a way of checks and balances, but, in horseracing, writers are either to ignorant, scared or just plain in cahoots with the decievers. It really is sickening to me.

No one with any clue about horseracing would expect a proven Dirt horse like RA to run on synthetic/turf in the BC.  It should not even be a disscussion if you follow this sport and understand the various surfaces.  Yet, the ignorant rant on and on about RA avoiding Zen at Santa Anita.  I would imagine that half ( or more ) of those ranters ( on both sides ) truly understand the stance of Jess Jackson, but, ( like many fans in many sports ) could care less about the facts and just want to argue for THEIR side regardless of right or wrong.

I enjoy both Zenyatta and RA and depending upon distance and pace could see a race between them go either way.  I have no desire to force or coerce Jess Jackson ( like he was last year ) into running his filly on a surface that she has never been on ( all synthetics are different from eachother and the difference is much more pronounced between synthetic vs synthetic and dirt vs dirt ).

Honestly, I sometimes feel like I am in the old 60's comedy, Green Acres.  Everyone on that show was completely looney accept Oliver Douglass ( the main character ).  Yet, Oliver was continually made to look like a fool and that he was the clueless one.  The audience was in on the joke of course.  Truly, that is how I feel about this inane argument that RA is avoiding or ducking.  For crying out loud let's throw some ski's on these steeds and race them down the mountain, winner take all as the best ever. Surface is irrelevant, right?

Karen 2, the point I was making is that the owner of RA, avoided any races of a mile and a quarter or more[ Belmont, Travers , Gold cup].He chose to keep her at the shorter distances which she excels in. It was obvious that she would have been caught in her last race if it was any longer. That said she is a great filly up to 9 furlongs after that she would be another also ran in my opinion, same goes for Zen they place her in shorter races to avoid the best competition and boys. Maybe she could get the mile and a quarter but they seem more interested in keeping her perfect record then to take on the best horses[why didn't she run in Goodwood against better comp?]. Now this double entry is another hedge to see what the comp will be. If they want another Peppers Pride then stick with the ladies .The Classic will have the best horses and I really don't believe they want her to lose and do whatever it takes to avoid the best horses.HOY is going to be a popularity contest and that's phony because a true champ ducks no race that brings the best horses together.RA has won on syn so its really Jessie's fear of distance and comp that won't allow her to run in the Classic not this safety bs.Both are terrific race horses at 9 furlongs and the owners in truth don't really want to compete at  longer distance against the boys.It's a phony chess match played by gutless owners and trainers.I'l be glad to eat my words if Zen runs in the classic but doubt she will.

Greg J not very smart leaving slam dunk winner out of Pick six ticket.

Thanks for the feedback Cindi.

I was asking about how he normally is in his stall because I don't know and the security cam feed kind of comes in stop-frame action here with more than a few frames inbetween missing.  That might make him seem more agitated than he is.

As of this afternoon, if he's sore, they're not doing the usual stuff, i.e., standing wraps, ice, clay poltice, etc.  Makes me think he isn't sore.  I kind of hope they skip the BC with him as someone mentioned before and kind of answered my previous question, winning on Woodbine's poly does not transfer to getting along with the Santa Anita surface.

HOY is certainly not going to be decided on this blog.  However, were Zen to go in the BC classic and win, she'd have accomplished a sweep that would include beating horses that RA beat, beating Euro's, plus getting it a 1-1/4 miles, something that RA has not done.  IF that happened, then what?

Nobody beats Zenyatta on that track at equal weight which is why RA is staying home.  Call it a "synthetic bias" if you will.  It is what it is.  Music note hasn't done much outside of New York, has a lot of 1 turn races, and is rather unaccomplished on synthetics.  The connections would have been smart to test the track/queen in the Lady's Secret.

Runfast159.  Good point.  Try and find Winning Colors on the modern top 100 thoroughbreds...and she WON the Kentucky Derby. She was a nose from ruining PE's perfect record.

Steve S.,

   Trust Me, I know!!!  Obviously, I didn't think he was the slam dunk winner, But, Do you know how pissed I am at myself?  Did you see the pay-off?  Idiotic of me...

I was so bummed about MTB's 5th place finish Saturday and dreading to read Draynay's comments. Thank you so much everyone for being kind in your comments. I still am crazy about him and pray that he's not sore.

Whether or not he runs again this year, I would hope that there is a jockey change. I think Calvin is great at Churchill but merely mediocre at unfamiliar venues. It makes me crazy when he acts as if all tracks are alike.

I agree that I would love to see Joe T. ride him. And don't make fun of me (because I am new to this), but what about bringing Chantal back to ride him? She knows the track at SA and she knows the horse as well.

LDP, since the inception of the Eclipse awards. Look it up on any reputable publication or turf writers abbreviation. You leave the THE off, just like in most abbreviations.

The reason we're mentioning it is it is undignified and sounds like something a kid would call it. Plus that was incidental to my point that we ARE NOT DISCUSSING HORSE OF THE YEAR........

cc On Jamie being taken off of Dublin, like I said, Bill and Bob (the principal owners) wanted a NY rider familiar with Belmont.

If you knew Wayne you'd know he's never married to ANY jockey and is known to take them off without qualms if someone else is available who he thinks is more appropriate.

To quote HIM on that particular change:

"We've always dealt with these riders as a one-race contract," Lukas said. "In light of what we're trying to do and the magnitude of the race, I thought if we could get one of the leading riders in New York we needed to do that. I, years ago, quit leading with my heart and started leading with my business sense."

The last sentence is the most telling. He has been real supportive of Jamie and gave him a chance at Saratoga when some didn't want to. But, IF, Dublin gets in the Derby you can be sure and certain that he will have someone on the horse with Derby experience and if the colt rebounds to his earlier form it'll be someone who has won the race.

Shiznick? The people IN racing have virtually nothing to do with the Eclipse Awards either. LOL

Runfast hit the nail on the head about those of us IN the industry on the Eclipse.

However, a lot of people IN racing do read these blogs. Some comment, some don't. Some even pay attention to the less delusional, overly opinionated people who ARE NOT in the game.

Think what Monica was saying is WHY do we have to turn EVERY blog into the RA for HOY blog?

LDP, find me someone IN THE GAME who calls it HOTY.

da3hoss, think what the deal is, it just seems demeaning to the horse, too cutesy and the constant hitting us over the head with THAT subject.

Just trying to say give it a rest until it's pertinent.

AMEN Craig!!!! Your post really puts things into perspective and should give all the bloggers something to think about. I wholeheartedly agree if RA's connections don't want to run her on synthetics...don't. That's not dodging anyone.  The writers for this sport??? well, they are busy writing about the big "chestnut" filly..Zenyatta....LOL....

The Phantom..with all due respect I happen to disagree with the "obvious". Everyone so quickly points out RA almost got caught and if the race was longer, she would have been collared. Had the race been longer, it would have been ridden differently. Isn't it fair to say that if the race was longer, we would have seen maybe some softer fractions? Maybe a little more "rating" on Borel's part? Take her a little of the pace..let her idle a little? Of course this is all hypothetical..but makes sense to me. Furthermore...RA wasn't caught in her last race and almost doesn't count.

Householder....I agree with you. RA probably woulnd't take Zen on THAT track at equal weights. and yes, it is a synthetic bias. A bias of which Jackson is perfectly sane to take. This is exactly why I liked Craig's post and his voice of reason.

Shawn.... Maybe I want and hope to see more from MTB and maybe I am wrong to think that they haven't put enough confidence in his running style. After all, who am I to say what he needs. They spend 24/7 with the horse. Its hard to be a fan and admit when maybe the horse just isn't running to his potential. Is it because he just doesn't have it in him anymore or has he just regressed off of his triple crown campaign? What ever the reason....I can only hope he comes back at 4 ready to rock and roll. That little guy has proven when he is in top form...he is a contender.

On a side note..... I kindof can't wait to see who these two great filly's will be bred to. It's one thing to watch a colt retire and go to the breeding shed, but a mare...now that's something to hold your breath for. The obvious would be RA and Curlin...but is that the best match up for her??? I would say some more thought should be put into that. Just because you own them both doesn't necessarily mean they belong together.  Probably a good subject for another blog. I would love to see who the bloggers pair these two up with and why. There is definately science behind it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Any thoughts???

Hey Karen I agree with you. I think coming off a 10 week layoff, and folks that WAS a layoff because he had 3 easy works, that he did pretty well wasn't as rank as he was in the WV which was what a 9 week layoff?  I personally just think he's one of those who DOESN'T like the Pro-ride.

I do know too that his connections have said he's not totally correct in the front end and has a 'different' way of going. Maybe that's more exagerated on the Pro ride?

LDP and Gun Bow? I agree there were races that determined HOIY before the Breeders Cup---they were ALL in the East/New York to be exact! But since it's inception, unless it's on pro ride, it seems to me the Cup has been by far the biggest determining factor in HOY/Divisional awards in USA! Also Gun Bow, you point out the years HOY was given to a horse who was not in the Cup--I ask you this--does that mean the Cup had any less bearing on HOY/Divisional winners that year? Remember, it's not just who WINS the Breeders Cup---it's also WHO LOSES the Breeders Cup that helps decide things--perhaps (probably) those non-participants were "helped" by the defeat of Cup Participants!

Shawn P,

    Sorry, but I don't really go looking for ppl in the game and grill them on how they abreviate things. If you don't like how i've abreviated it, then either get over it or don't read it, I'm not going to change the way I do something just because you wake up one day and don't like it.

Also if you want to get technical with it Shawn, you are normally supposed to leave "of" off abreviations too.  Again it's the way I've ALWAYS said it and it's the pettiest and most pathetic thing to pick up on. Not to mention your about a year late on noticing.

Jess Jackson is smart he had the horse of the year curlin raced him on dirt grass synthetics anywhere any place. He put his star in the preakness with little rest. JJ takes risks and RA should be retired for the year. I guarantee he will be watching the BC classic though thinking to himself we would of smashed these horses! Homeboy Kris yo he is the truth!!

By the way what are your thoughts on my boy Quality Road on a fast track....can anyone catch him and why isnt pletcher giving him a tune up for the classic?

Shawn P,

    I explained why I went on the rant, so how about you for once let it die. I did nothing to provoke you AT ALL. You come in with a stupid nit pick of a thing as abreviations, and try to pick at that. I never said anything about the discussion being about HOTY, I had a short rant BIG DEAL, what else is new? Also answer me this, how many trainers would want to win a Derby, the Kentucky Derby, over a Breeders Cup. I'll bet more want that than a BC, yet it's purse is less than the cup. Purses don't give a race prestigue, it is the history and who has shown up. Holly Bull ran in the Derby, but skipped the Cup. It is an important race, but to the level of some, no. It is a cherry on top of a great year for most and is a fantastic race to win, but compared with others it has a long way to go. Races like the JCGC have been won by champions and triple crown winners, how many TC winners does the BCC have to it's credit. Great race, but has a long way to go before it gets to the level that the others were.

CRAIG,

Great post.  However your first three questions are by no means rhetorical ones.  Many great horses will act/win on a variety of surfaces or conditions i.e. fast/sloppy and firm, soft or boggy underfoot conditions, even though they show preferences for one over another.  Secretariat excelled on both and he was not the only notable one to do so.

Please recall that "grass champions" Dayjur, Giants Causeway, Sakee and Swain put in terrific performances on dirt in the Breeder's Cup.  Dayjur and Swain should have won their respective events but for the anomalies of jumping shadows (Dayjur) and a crazy ride down the stretch by Frankie Detorri(Swain).  George Washington ran a reasonably good race on the dirt against Invasor and Bernadini, which is why the connections were persuaded to try again the following year in which unfortunately the track came up very sloppy.  Einstein is a great example of a horse that can prevail in Grade one company on any surface even though he prefers grass.  Therefore your argument founded upon the assumption that it is unreasonable or ignorant to expect the top performers to make the transition  and be competitive is quite shaky.  It borders on arrogance to suggest that those of us who would have loved to see Rachel Alexandra run in the Breeder's Cup Classic are cluless about racing surfaces.  As the saying goes "a little knowledge can be dangerous" so beware my friend.  Enjoyed your post nevertheless.

Dray- Unbridled Belle is not close to the same form that she was in 2007.  You can't pretend that she's the  Grade 1 winner she was then.  She just can't perform at that level anymore.  Music Note beat a weak field.  She should beat Unbridled Belle in a hand ride.  There's a world of difference between Unbridled Belle and Zenyatta.

Ranagulzion...no way.

I am so tired of reading the bull about racing surfaces, or a turf horse and a dirt horse.  Trainers, owners, half of them can't even tell a difference between a turf horse and a dirt horse.  Do you people know why, its because there is no difference, they are horses, they are made the same.  They all have the same bone structure, the same flesh.  Its ridiculous, all these excuses made by horsemen, turf writers and even bloggers.  I hate it when someone says that the right thing to do is to rest a horse after such a taxing campaign of 8 or 9 races.  That is a stupid comment and hypocritical at the same time.  Why doesnt anybody say anything about the horse running on the 3rd race for a claiming tag of Lone Star park, making his 25th start of the year, with probably 3 or 4 more stars to go before the year is done.  I will tell you why, because he is only going to give the regular gambler any amusement, he's not going to attract a national audience.  I'll give a better example, why doesn't anybody whine about Lethal Heats connections running her on such short rest continuously, and this is a top filly.  Now I have seen many horses in my lifetime, I currently have horses that were bred in Chile, Argentina, Brasil, England, Ireland, California, Florida and Kentucky, and I mention states because in the racing business its like every state is there own country, there is no unity or uniformity which I am very much for.  And you know what I dont see a slight difference between the Bernstein mare bred in Argentina and the El Corredor mare bred in Kentucky.  Aside from there pedigree they are nearly identical. WHy doesn't anybody call Einstein, Pico Central, Bayakoa, Paseana, Sandpit, Gentlemen, Candy Ride, Payant, Siphon, Invasor anything but a good horse, not a turf horse or a dirt horse. Does this mean that the people  who breed horses in South America breed better horses because they have proven to be successful on any surface whether dirt, turf, synthetics, sloppy, you name it.  Of course not, it just means that horsemen are just weird with their beliefs.  Yes some horses do run better on turf, and others on dirt, sometimes its pedigree sometimes its not.  I remember they used to say Nureyev, a turf sire.  That used to drive me crazy.  Cause we had a Nureyev  out of an Irish River mare who loved the fast dirt, and sloppy going over the firm turf.  Trainer wasted a lot of starts running on turf, until we gave it a shot on dirt, and gosh what a surprise, a horse with so called turf pedigree won on dirt, a horse  whose grandfather won the Kentucky Derby, basically won on any surface, and became the greatest sire of all time, still today most of his descendants are still being hailed as turf horses.  I saw Mill Reefs offspring being imported, and never really pointed to dirt races. Funny, one of his good sons nearly won the Classic in 1990 on dirt.  Still wonder why no more of Mill Reef descendants run on dirt or in America.  I mean the horse was bred in America, on the same cross as Secretariat, still to American horsemen he was like fungus.  I saw alot of good Riverman dirt horses, Blushing Grooms.  When Coolmore takes a Storm Cat to run in Europe it doesn't mean he's a turf horse, he's just a good horse, Giants Causeway and One Cool Cat and Hold That Tiger come to mind. Or what about the Ribot line, they have proven themselves in America very well.

Now I've said it before, I am not fond of horses running on recycled garbage.  But its a product that its accredited by meeting safety standards, and that has not changed much of the outcomes in California Racing, as I have said before the same sires still are dominating california racing. Why California forced this on the industry it was because they were playing the politically correct game.  Has it backfired, maybe, and maybe not.  Why I do know, is that those animal rights activist won't stay away for very long, the paybacks they receive will run dry then they'll come back and force the issue again of safety on racetracks. Its politics, bad for the game.

Rachel Alexandra on the other hand is good for the game. Rachel Alexandra should run because if we as an industry,  ever want to be recognized as a major sport again, than our champions should run in our biggest stage.  And our awards should be earned, not be given away.  Cause if it was a popularity contest than the fans should vote, but its not its politics, and politics usually ruin everything.

Now Rachel Alexandra she has more of a turf pedigree than she does a dirt.  She is sensational, she can run on anything.  Zenyatta the same thing, they are just very great horses.  Now if Sea The Stars comes, whether dirt, or turf, or synthetics, he will be tough as nails to beat.  As well as any other horse that comes from Europe.  But the American horses will be just as tough.  In the end its about the best taking on the best. People at the Breeders Cup probably need advice from other sports on how to promote there biggest event because clearly the phrase World Championships is just clearly a gimmik that nobody buys into anymore, as they are really not World Championships.  It might have worked in baseball with the world series, but we're talking about a term that was developed way before its time and just stuck.  The Breeders Cup should have been World Championships since the very beginning.   Maybe by this time they would actually be just that.  And people please, remember the phrase, A horse is a horse, of course, of course.

"Shiznick? The people IN racing have virtually nothing to do with the Eclipse Awards either. LOL"

I agree and never said they did.

"However, a lot of people IN racing do read these blogs. Some comment, some don't. Some even pay attention to the less delusional, overly opinionated people who ARE NOT in the game."

I would say "a lot of people IN racing do read these blogs."  is quite a stretch and I doubt very much the last part of your statement is true as well.  People who make their living in this industry ( for real ) have very little time for blogs ( Some, maybe ).

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

 Some of you people are just plain crazy over this Rachel vs. Zenyatta nonsense. If Rachel wins HOY, does that mean she is better than Zenyatta? NO! If Zenyatta wins HOY does that mean she is better than Rachel? NO! Why can't you people just accept the fact that they BOTH are extremely talented racehorses? You should celebrate the fact that you were alive to see them both in your lifetime and leave it at that.

 Is it HOY or HOTY? WHO CARES!!

I'll tell you what, though, the "Moment of the Year", for me, will be Calvin Borel's genuine, touching moment after winning with MTB, when he sobbed that he wished his Mom and Dad were here, to "see what I done with my life"...then takes the Derby Rose and tosses it up to Heaven...

And the classiest moment was when MTB's connections handed out the Derby wreath roses to the fans...

People if an owner or trainer had Secretariat in their barn right now, or DR Fager, Damascus, Buckpasser, or Round Table, Forego, Kelso, Northern Dancer, Affirmed, Alydar, Phar Lap, Specatcular Bid, and the classic is at Santa Anitas Pro-ride, does anybody here actually believe anyone of these greats who have proven to run on any surface, would bypass racings biggest day.  I dont think so.

And another what would we call these horses, turf horses or dirt horses, wait wait how about any surface any weather horses, there thats much better. Bleepin Brilliant.

Footlick say what you want but Lethal Heat got stuck in the final turn and got room late and still finished just a little more than a length behind Zenyatta.  Music Note flew by lone speed in a hand ride.  If you can't tell Music Note is a better horse right now I can't help you.  Just make sure you bet her big at the Distaff because I will be ALL IN on Music Note.  I guarantee Zenyatta will not beat Music Note.  Zenyatta is barely beating average horses there is NOTHING average about Music Note right now.

California for decades lamented the lack of a 'fair playing field" in regards to championship racing--When finally the Breeders Cup came along, rendering the West Coast as "front and center" in North American Racing, whenever it held the Breeders Cup---At long last, California "gets' it's rellevance--only to jump ship with synthetics/lose what they had fought for!

Shiznick, yes I was agreeing that we (my family is the WE in my case) don't have anything to do with the Eclipse awards.

If you don't think people who are REALLY in racing don't read these blogs then you're incorrect and haven't read it yourself.

Barry Irwin does, and comments, Jess Jackson has said he does and told either Steve H or Jason that. Larry Jones family member and Hal Wiggins wife. Joel Marr (which was verified by his email address) Kim, Chip Wooley's girlfriend does. Lisa Funk Calvin's fiance does. I know of at least 3 trainers who chose to remain anonymous who did read and comment often or at least once or twice. My family owns numerous horses. I know two breeders and several owners who do. So they DO read and sometimes write. They do actually use computers eeek and they use all the tech ways of keeping in contact. They also like to see what the public is saying, whether they put any real credence into it is debateable.

da3hoss,

To what are you saying "no way"?

Whatever the issue you are contending with I welcome your thoughts.

LDP

Shawn thrives on picking fights.

LDP, I said it was a pet peeve. But it didn't just come from out in left field. You called people BC idiots. You bring it up every single blog.

Go back and read my comment about the most prestigious races and the ones that people in racing want to win most of all. The criteria for ANY of the Eclipse awards should be based on points. Also, if you remember back, several of us were telling YOU which are the most important to those of us in racing.

I don't think anyone starts out the year saying I want to win an Eclipse award. The people you DON'T like have said they aren't going to run a mare chasing the Eclipse award. Get it through your head that the ECLIPSE award is NOT as important as winning races. The BC included. THAT was my point to you. You're contradicting yourself. the Derby is the most important race of all? More important than the Woodward and the Haskell and yes even the Preakness. Shot yourself in the foot with that one.

Frankly the last time people defended you, me included we got harassed. One gave up blogging and despite what YOU or Shiznik think? That guy and one other were people who are IN racing. That I know personally.

As for me I'm more interested in the future, the BC is our next big series in racing and one of the FEW we can get on TV.

Emilio, horses show a preference for certain surfaces or a propensity for running better on one or the other. You think not? Why not go back and review the records.

Worst of all, take a look at what is happening on this synthetic stuff. Credited with meeting safety standards? Whose the manufacturers?

It is proving to NOT be what people said it was.

As for the BC ask someone in racing if it isn't a goal to win one. Better yet all the people dismissing it, read some of the comments by those who WANT to win it and what they say when they do WIN their first one. Plus saying it isn't the World Championships? Tell that to the horses that come from Ireland, England, Japan, Germany etc.

EmilioP,

I completely agree with everything you just said.   Very Nice

Matt W,

    The horses that did go and win the Classic, what races did they win before that? Cigar won races like the JCGC, the Hollywood Gold Cup, the Mass Cap, and Woodward before his BC races. Invasor race in the Whiteny, Pimlico Special and the Suburban, before his BC and HOTY. Ghostzapper won the Vosburgh, Tom Fool and Woodward. Point is these horses already had extremely impressive seasons to begin with, and didn't really need the BC. All of them raced in some historical race, Cigar even raced in Cali. It is a great race to win, most do want to win it, but is it needed, no.

"However your first three questions are by no means rhetorical ones.  Many great horses will act/win on a variety of surfaces or conditions i.e. fast/sloppy and firm, soft or boggy underfoot conditions, even though they show preferences for one over another.  Secretariat excelled on both and he was not the only notable one to do so."

I know this is true and that is why I acknowledged it in my original post by saying "There have been very few that have been equal on both."  I used the word equal for a reason and if you infuse that into your reading you would not have to tell me about all the game efforts of the horses who were able to win on both.  As I said, very few were equal on both. Either way, it was hardly the point I was making in my post. George Washington, Swain, Dayjur, Sakee, etc... all were MUCH better turf horses.  

"Therefore your argument founded upon the assumption that it is unreasonable or ignorant to expect the top performers to make the transition  and be competitive is quite shaky"

That isn't what I said and my argument was founded on no such thing.  I inferred that it was unreasonalble for anyone to EXPECT that RA SHOULD run in the BC Classic on a synthetic surface that is more turf than dirt in terms of how it plays.  The fact that she may end up handling the surface fine and even win on it is irrelevant to my point. Just as it is irrelevant as to whether Sea The Stars would win in a Classic at Churchill Downs.  The point is that the connections or the horse would not be verbally attacked for opting to not run in the Classic on a conventional dirt track.  Which imo, is no different than asking the best dirt horse we have in the states to run it's championship on a surface that it has never ran on before.  Further, the gall it takes by the BC powers and some fans to insist it is dirt is infuriating.  So my argument isn't shaky because you are not addressing my argument, but rather, what you think I said.

"It borders on arrogance to suggest that those of us who would have loved to see Rachel Alexandra run in the Breeder's Cup Classic are cluless about racing surfaces.  As the saying goes "a little knowledge can be dangerous" so beware my friend."

The reason I am being slightly harsh towards you is because you are not comprehending my post and are responding rather strongly to points that were not being made.  Here you go again.

Most likely we would all love to see RA running in the Classic.   EXPECTING her to run and name calling her and her connections when they choose otherwise is the problem I have.  I am not calling the people who would love to see RA run in the Classic clueless about racing surfaces.  I am calling the ones who demand and expect her to run clueless, because they are. Jackson has ran that horse all over the country against all comers on dirt.  RA is a dirt horse period.  Would I have loved Jackson to roll the dice and let her run in the Classic on Pro-Ride?  You bettcha.  But, that would be EXTEMELEY sporting of a man that has proven to be as sporting as any in this game.  Afterall, there would not even be a discussion about RA and her greatness if Jackson would have never bought her.  She would just be a very good filly that no one truy knew what she was capable of, if not for a sporting Jackson.

"As the saying goes "a little knowledge can be dangerous" so beware my friend.  Enjoyed your post nevertheless."

Yes, and so can a lack of comprehension be dangerous, so you to beware. It doesn't sound like you enjoyed my post, but, everyone expresses there "likes" differently, I guess.

I had to get somewhere so excuse the grammaticals which were more than usual.

RJAY is correct. MTB has been resting all summer and his Goodwood was nothing more then a workout. His people need to drop the hammer on the training and get a new boy who is a SA specialist if they are going to the BCC. If not they ought to reroute and go to the Clark as GUNBOW suggested. Whatever the race he can then take a break. He is a nice horse but needs some help from his connections. CRAFTON: MTB contribution to racing will far exceed Quality Road as long as that  colt is trained by TP. The MTB connections are new to this big time racing and have done a great job so far but if they don't want to embarass the horse in the Classic thay need to get in the game. Ever since the Tripe Crown races its been like pony on parade. The course they are on right now looks like MTB will be dicing for 10th in the BCC. It will take a long vacation to get him back from that setback and a new trainer. Get real and let him rip in the Classic or go someplace else and party on. MTB deserves better. At the end of the day its all about MTB and Chip and the boys are just spear carriers.

Matthew, 3 cheers for you! Being a Cal guy you said it so well.

Constant complaining about the East Coast Bias, Baffert comes along and dispels that and CHRB does THIS???

That Cal Cup day fiasco has scared a lot of people.

On Lethal Heat? Is that one of those weaklings that you dismissed?

Hate to be redundant but "people have opinions, horses have the facts." We'll see what happens. If Zen goes in the Classic is Music Note going there too?

Everyone is talking about how Zenyatta wins for fun, and how easily she does it, and how she has another set of gears. Well, IMO, she has to run in the Classic, so that we can find out if she actually does.

She has no excuses. It will be held on her HOME TRACK, so she does not have to travel, get aclimated or anything else. She has a CLEAR advantage.

Winning the distaff will only prove what we already know...that she is a hell of a mare, with connections that have not allowed her to show how good she really is.

It's time for her connections to put up or shut up!

Longwaytomay,

      AMEN!, Enough is Enough, Zenyatta & Rachel are both Great, End of Story...

EmilioP,

    Well Said and So True, Bravo...

Benedict Arnold,

     Talk about someone having no class or respect, Well, You win, Hands down...

Craig,

     Come on now, What about Arnold Ziffel?, I do believe he was the sane one on the show, lol...

ZENYATTA is great, that's all. There's really not a lot more to say is there?

Shawn P,

    The Moss's do care, or else they wouldn't have been so PO at the eclipse awards when Curlin won last year and not Zenyatta. They are sore over that and are no trying to act like they don't care. Actually it's quite similar to what JJ is doing to synthetics if you ask me. All of you who don't like him will go and say he isn't going because Curlin lost on them last year. Moss is not going for it because he's PO that he didn't get it last year when he thought he should have. The BC idiot thing was not even directed at you or anyone in particular, so don't even go trying to use that as an excuse. Also if i remember correctly you people said the races you said the ppl would rather win are the Derby and Travers, saying nothing about the BC.

Mike,

    I think he thrives on picking fights with me.

LEON

Zenyatta does have "another set of gears". Are you gonna say she didn't win easily and wasn't geared down Saturday?

LDP I couldn't disagree with you more....you think those guys ran in the Breeders Cup DESPITE having sewn up the HOY??? Cigar is ONE horse---Ghostzapper??? No way is he HOY over Smarty Jones on three races--he needed the Breeders Cup!

LDP

Another one,just like Carlos and a few others that thinks they know everything. A joke!

No Mike I don't. Who was it that took that last battle to a totally different blog?

Who was it that 'abandoned' their supposed friend to support someone else?

While I and another poster defended her? Then PERSONALLY attacked that person and when I tried to calm it down, turned MY words around?

I've agreed with YOU on many things including Zenyatta but you are suddenly very disagreeable and mean spirited.

What I AM trying to say is lets forget about Rachel for now, lets focus on the BC and whoever is going to run in it. I didn't call anyone an idiot, I didn't say LDP was a high schooler. Someone else did that.

Pretty funny coming from the guy who started fighting last spring and still does it, was called out by Steve H..........

SHAWN P

Hope you are right regarding Steve A. reading the blogs. It would make my day if he's read some of my comments regarding him.

Benedict whatever your name is

Your comments are moronic.....Many of the best grasses horses in Europe have been bred in the USA.....you also missed quite a few American tracks in you TRACK ANALOGY.....Arlington, Monmouth, Lone Star, Gulfstream, etc., etc.

Oh yeah Benedick.....you're one to talk about the sport of kings when you're county is ruled by a QUEEN

LDP, if I enjoy picking fights with you why did I take all that heat and why did Tim for defending you against unwarranted attacks? Ask Jason I even emailed him that was my intent.

But, DO YOU KNOW the Moss' were P.O'd? Were you there? Have you ever spoken to them?

Actually on the favs, it was Tim who listed them on another blog and he said in order 1 The Derby, 2. The Travers 3. The Belmont and Preakness (but more so if they were a part of WINNING the TC) and then the BC races. I agree with that. What MY point on here to you was, is that you say the BC races aren't that important. I SAY they are MORE important than the Haskell, The Woodward et al. More important that an Eclipse award voted on by people in the press and secretaries.

But I also say ENOUGH about the HOY and Rachel,PLEASE! There will be another blog about her later on and then it will be fun to discuss it again.

I did agree with you on JJ dodging the syns, but now I'm not so sure. Just like Steve H said in his show and again on his blog, after the break downs it's starting to look like he may be right.

LEON Zenyatta's home track is Hollywood--you probably also don't know it's nothing like pro ride---I, too, hope they go in Classic--I'll take what I can "get", as they've only beaten them all, so far....

I saw Bo Derek in the Winner's Circle after Zenyatta's win.  Santa Anita was only able to attract 20,000 with a horse that was going for its 13th win(and probably the best female since Bayakoa to hit the Great Race Place)and the Kentucky Derby Winner.  I hope Bo, Moss, and the rest of the CHRB has some ideas.  Sad...sad...day.

The only thing the Goodwood was missing was Mr. Hot Stuff.  Good grief.  CA has some other divisions locked up though.  BC Juvinile=Lookin at Lucky.  BC Male Sprint=Zensational.  BC Distaff=Zenyatta.  I also thought the Oak Tree winner looked "Magical" over that turf course.  I'm also liking Indian Blessing...

Believe me, Lethal Heat is not a palooka! They brought her back and crammed a bunch of races into her, but she's a real nice filly! Think she has a real chance in the Distaff--yes, Music Note is the real deal, and Zenyatta is lights out--but if ya need a price horse that'll be fit--and (finally) getting a month between races---it's the underrated Lethal Heat!

i am looking forward to the self manufactured hype around where zenyatta will run. She will not run in the classic and will get beat in the Ladys classic. She is a great horse, but not deserving of the hoopla

Gunbow - I agree with your perspective that MTB will need to turn it up a notch to really have a shot in the BCC.  That is not a knock against his connections or their decisions - I cannot criticize something I have no experience with (it is easy to do and arrogant all at the same time).  Fact is I am just smitten with the horse but I can say for certain his form is not at the top and he needed that race to have a shot.  I would not expect any different given his path up until now.

After seeing MTB up close and personal his presence is far different than most horses. He has a ton of heart and you can see it. My take is he has a lot more to offer (to read potential) but like anything he needs a regiman to get him there.

Maybe a race similar in style to the Belmont would actually suit him better for the BCC - in the Belmont he had a ton left in the tank at 1 1/4 miles, he lost it the last two furlongs, and it was a gradual increase in speed.  Just a thought.

I like pretty much any of the Europeans in the BCC when all is said and done over any of the US horses.  It will certainly be interesting.

mz, you misunderstood me.  Mine That Bird LIKES the surface at Woodbine.  He has not done nearly as well in the States as he did in Canada, considering he was Canada's juvenile of the year last year.  He either needs to go back to Canada and surfaces that he likes or he needs to quit running in stakes races and run on lower end tracks such as New Mexico.  He is not a stakes horse.  I have *never* felt he was a stakes horse.  He did great in the Derby, did good in the Preakness and has fallen apart since then.  He is going in the wrong direction and I really dislike his trainer.  Chip seems to have his own bank account at heart over the best interest of the horse.  The best interest of MTB is to NOT run in the Breeders Cup.  He hates the surface, can't get his footing on it and will get hurt on it.  He loves Woodbine.  Why not send him back there?

littlebirdstillgotwings, let's see the difference between MTB & Einstein ... MTB is 3yos ... Einstein is 7yos!!!  Einstein is nearing the END of his career!!!  MTB is supposed to be starting it.  Einstein has faced tough competition all season.  MTB ... not so much after the Belmont.  He ducked the Haskell to run in the less prestigious West Virginia Derby against lesser horses.  Einstein has not been worse than 5th all season.  Einstein can run on all surfaces.  MTB .. no.  He can't run on Santa Anita's surface.  To compare the two is ridiculous.  Apples to oranges.  Comparing a 3yo to a 7yo is ridiculous.  MTB is not as talented as his sire or his half brother.  There's no shame in that, but his connections need to realize that and quit trying.  Put him back to Woodbine, where he likes the surface.  Put him back to New Mexico, where he does well.  But take him out of stakes races, at least until he peaks.  He'll end up injured if he keeps trying to go up against superior horses and then he will end up like Ferninand.  They did the horse a disservice by gelding him with his pedigree.  They are doing him a disservice by having Chip Wooley as the trainer, a trainer who thinks more about his bank account then the well being of the horse is not a trainer.  

A few blogs back EMILLO P  brought up a list of some very famous horses. Those horses were supported by some big time very experienced owners and trainers. Look at what MTB has done this year without that kind of support infastructure. This is a terrific little horse but he is carrying the outfit. His connections have done a credible job so far but they are about to jump into some really deep water. The mosey along course they are on will not produce another Ky Derby result. He is so game and honest it hurts. The only horse whose situation is more dire is Stardom Bound.

Pam S. thanks for your comments about Zenyatta running at age 6. I agree with all that you said.

Ranagulzion, the only thing that is truly global is the economy. Horse racing certainly isn't. When I watch racing in Britain and France it doesn't look or feel like any racing I see in the U.S.  They don't run in our races 90% of the time and the reverse is obviously true. HOTY isn't setup to be awarded as an international award.

As for the Nobel Prize Committee, they are an embarrassment and you can read every editorial on the planet to get a really "global" feel for what most people are thinking of the committee's pick. The award is not President Obama's fault. But it would be wonderful if he accepted it in the name of all the men and women who have fought in America's armed services around the world to bring freedom and overthrow tyranny. That would send a message to the Nobel committee they wouldn't forget.

Emilio P. a horse is a horse, of course of course LOL. So you were a Mr. Ed fan too huh?!

I agree that the some of the greats could run on turf and dirt. But not all horses can. I think this especially holds true for synthetics. I really do not believe they would even consider sending STS over here for the BCC if it was on dirt. Just wouldn't happen. I will be really thrilled when the BCC is held on dirt next year. Then I think the playing field would be level. I don't like synthetic surfaces period.

MikeM, that's not true, since MTB ran at Woodbine and NEVER LOST A RACE THERE and that is a synthetic surface.  THAT is why I say, send him back to Woodbine!  He loves the surface and does fantastic on it.  He doesn't run as well on dirt and he definitely does NOT run as well on the surface at Santa Anita.  The best thing to do for MTB is to ship him up to Woodbine and let him run there.  The next best place for him is New Mexico.  

Mike Relva, I still stand by that if Zenyatta runs against the boys in the Classic she gets beat.  I also think if Careless Jewel runs the Ladies Classic, or Proviso, she gets beat.  If any European fillies or mares run the Ladies Classic, she gets beat.  She made her move a lot earlier, which makes me think she is losing steam.  She was never in the back of the pack as usual and she started her move on the turn.  Two things that she never does.  

Mike, if you recall on a Q&A with Jess, he SAID he read these blogs all the time. A couple others said so, including Larry and expressed their appreciation for the kind comments. However, we actually agree on Steve A but I do know that sometimes people connected with the guys being discussed on here get more upset about people who don't know them trying to talk about them. I do when someone starts on one or more that I know well.

It appears Abrams saw what I saw and has every intention on running Lethal Heat in the Distaff and then again the following day.  Lethal Heat could have made a race of it on Saturday had she not had to hold up waiting for room in the final turn.  Zenyatta did not pull away and won by just a length.  MTB has not been a factor in any race since the Derby and needs to be put away for next year.  He has no business racing in the Breeders Cup I feel sorry for him they are not putting the horse in the position to win.  It really is sad.

Also Mike, I don't know everything. But some that you accuse of that know a heck of a lot more than some profess to know. Some that you have said that about have been or are in the industry. I could start naming the ones that you discovered or will discover DO know a lot. We have had horses since way before I was born. I've known some well known trainers my whole life and we have quite a few in training right now. YOu discovered you were wrong about ONE persons knowledge you could and are wrong again.

What happened to those 'minor stakes horses running in Florida' that you used to put down a person who IS very knowledgable?

Rechelle, I am glad you said it. I agree 100 percent.

Ok, I had to post this before going to bed, because I think its a cool idea, even though it will probably never catch. Everyone has compared the BC to the Superbowl, which I've stated I don't agree with, i would be more inclined to compare it to a track team at the olympics, but even then you still are divided into teams. That got me thinking how great would it be if we had like a type of Horseracing Olypmics? Of course it would be held every year, but modeled after the Olympics. Basicly rotation wise we can have four major sites around the world that would host the HRO(horseracing olympics). Just throwing some names out there France, England, America and Dubai. Each year each country would bring their best two horses for these divisions: Marathon, Classic, Mile, Sprint, Distaff, F/M turf, Juvi and Juvi fillies. All races are held over dirt and turf. Each country would pick their horses based on a point system for each division, which would only count in grade one races. A win equals 10 second is 6 and third is 4. This also goes for every division. Then maybe in mid the top two horses in each division come to wherever the site of the HRO is located to race against the best in the world!

This idea is open to all comments.

Let's remember that MTB's connections pulled him out of a race over a minor bump or irritation after surgery- and they could have just as well run the horse.

MTB's trainer seems to support getting some bottom on the horse and I sure couldn't agree more.

I don't know that the horse needs a rest so much as there is a puzzle here to solve.  He has proven capable, with the right trip, of winning in this years Grade 1 three-year old group and giving what I thought was a pretty good scare to RA in the Preakness.  I can't see it out of line to try to keep him in this kind of company for a while.  The question is, what does he need?  Or did he get what he needed in the Goodwood?  I did not expect him to win but thought he'd finish further up the field. Was the slow pace the factor, as Chip has suggested?

Now, having said I think Talamo would give a better ride, let me say that apparently, after working him, Talamo thought MTB got over the Santa Anita surface just fine.  You can catch that on YouTube.

So Talamo thinks he can, Borel doesn't, and I thought he was running kind of high in front in the Goodwood.

For the sake of knowledge, because I'd really like to know, why the disparity?

Thanks.

Rechelle, I don't know what race you were watching but Zenyatta looked better in the Lady's Secret then she did in her previous race. She didn't look like she was losing steam at all. There was more in the tank there at the end. Read Steve Haskin's piece on the BCC. I agree with everything he said about Zenyatta. She may be our best bet against the Euros in the BCC.

Draynay please stop while you are ahead.  There you go saying MTB wasn't "a factor" in any race since the Derby.  Are you out of your mind?  Not a factor in the Preakness, not even a factor in the Belmont?  You're nuts.

He didn't run in the Travers due to his throat (I think you should educate yourself in that department, was likely a factor in W Va.) and now he is coming off a 10 week break.  

There is no reason to "feel sorry" for MTB, he's doing just fine although I don't see him winning the BC.  I do see him having a lot more to offer as a 4 year old.

RECHELLE

Trust me,I will remind you after Zenyatta wins next month. Look,she wasn't as far back because Mike Smith said he made a mistake last time having her too far off. How many horses in that race could have come from that far back and still win like she did?  Jerry Bailey stated yesterday she had plenty left and won w/ ease Saturday. It's always the same with you on almost every blog slamming her and connections.

SHAWN P

If you counted how many Steve H. and Jason have "called out" you would be counting till doomsday.

LDP, horse racing isn't organized along an amateur sports concept, which is what I am getting from your idea. It's a money making business (ideally). You would need a national governing body to handle the logistics, rules etc. Not gonna happen in horse racing any time soon. Horse racing is not known as a terribly organized sport.

Mike, if you recall on a Q&A with Jess, he SAID he read these blogs all the time. A couple others said so, including Larry and expressed their appreciation for the kind comments. However, we actually agree on Steve A but I do know that sometimes people connected with the guys being discussed on here get more upset about people who don't know them trying to talk about them. I do when someone starts on one or more that I know well.

LOL... Shawn P I hope you don't think Mike is buying anything you are selling.  Lol...

THE KING OF THE DERBY

You won't feel so much like a king after Zenyatta wins Breeders.

LDP, It IS our Superbowl. The Richest days in racing the chance for MANY to make a name and money.

If you don't believe me? Why don't you write to someone, like Wayne Lukas or Shug McGaughey and THEY will tell you how important the BC is? Instead of all this speculation and so many of you thinking you know how we feel about it.

As for your suggestion? Don't think you'll get too many takers on that.

They have the win and your in here and in Europe, Japan so I think that suffices. You think you don't get a lot of horses go on to the BC now? Try moving it around the world. TOO cost prohibitive especially now when racing is struggling.

What you are suggesting is what is happening right now. Only the BEST get into the races based on the qualifying criteria. In a product that is already hard to sell? Not a viable option.

HorseFirst - I have read a little bit about an entrapped epiglottis and I think it was wise not to run him in the Travers.  That in hindsight because I wanted him to run at that time.  I have learned since then that even such a small issue can create big problems if not properly addressed, particularly in a racehorse.  The weaving of his head side to side (starting with the Belmont) is a symptom of the problem and they can grow back.

The only other observation I can add is the demeanor of trainer and owners in the saddle area for the Goodwood.  My impression was that the Goodwood was an informational race, not one to go and push the horse unnecessarily to win a $350,000 purse race.  

Dray

You're right about Lethal Heat.....she did run into trouble before the top of the stretch and the jock had to put her on hold for a few steps.....However the hole opened at the top of the stretch and she had clear sailing…..She was even with Zen then but in spite of being whipped through most of the stretch, she couldn’t keep up and had to hang on for second while Zen was basically geared down and won like announcer Trevor D. said…..“with condescending ease….wins it only a length, but sooooo easily”.

Steve Haskin’s analogy:  “She wins the exact same way – her 1 1/2-length victories, while taking one stride to everyone else’s two strides, are accomplished with the same ease as those who win by 10 lengths.  There aren’t many horses, if any, you can say that about. That is how totally dominant she is. Her stretch runs are basically this:  Zenyatta moving effortless to the lead on the far outside with two or three seemingly Lilliputian horses fighting it out for the place and show spots.”

As for MTB…..Haskin also noted that he only got beat by 3-3/4L and ran his last eighth in 11 flat……to me that says that if he goes into the BC and adapts to the surface that day, he is capable of a big run and has a shot.

HorseFirst, since they've had the webcam on MTB,  I have the feed on as I eat lunch and he eats his breakfast. He's looked calmer and not as stressed since the race Saturday. His ears are up more and he's being friendlier. I haven't seen any indications at all that he's sore. And I agree with all the people who would like to see Joe Talamo ride him. Since the Preakness, Calvin always seems on the verge of putting him down and not riding any horse before the Belmont or Woodward, for whatever reason, just doesn't sound right. If he can't get horses to ride, he could at least go out there and breeze him once to see how he gets over it and how the track feels. Joe has been putting time into the horse and really seems to like him. That could be a bond that would last for years and be good for everyone.

What I would like to know is what is that machine hooked up to the bucket they hang on his nose? It looks like a nebulizer.

Draynay, What am I selling?

The fact that my family owns horses? That they have done so since way before I was born? That I know and speak to some of the biggest names in the game on a routine basis? No I'm not selling that at all. The facts are the facts.

YOU are the salesman I believe?

Like a few others who have posted on here and got sick of it, why?

Because they actually KNOW what goes on in the game and don't use guesses and speculation.

By the way I thought you said on Steve's blog you would be here in Ky for opening day at Keeneland? Plus you said you saw Secretariat run and analyzed that. Well You were selling something when you said that about Keeneland. Probably because a couple of us called you out and said we know what you look like and would see if you showed. Then your claim of seeing Big Red run and analyzing him? You were what 9 or 10? Not a race track kid, how could you analyze anything?

Mike as for who Steve calls out, a little different deal.

As for what people are saying about Chip? My family knows him and Dr Blach VERY well one rodeod with Chip and bred some horses with Docs stallions. Don't want to believe me then as Bob Baffert said right after the Derby "that guy that trained him (Woolley), he did a great job with this horse. This horse was ready and he trained him, and even though he vanned him here an it was like 'Casey’s Shadow, they got here and they won the biggest race.”

Now I'm sure you'll try to discredit him. NONE of you who are on the outside can stand the fact or admit that SOME of us really ARE in the game. But whatever, it's your loss. When you could get REAL info. But you all know all the nuances and the inside information (choke, gag) so have fun speculating.

Paula - I agree on Zenyatta.  She was practically loping to the finish.  Mike doesn't move a muscle on her at all.  It needs to be witnessed live to be appreciated in my opinion.  Truly effortless.

If I say Zenyatta was awesome, that will be A) offending all the Rachelmaniacs and B) not be saying anything original. She was putting on quite a show! ESPN Classic did a better job of covering the races this weekend than they have with some others this year (although I DVR'd HRTV so I could get more later). I kind of liked how they showed the heights of some of the horses. I knew Zenyatta is a big girl, but didn't realize she was that much taller than Secretariat.

LDP, no I noticed it a long time ago. I didn't bring it up but this blog is about the BREEDERS CUP I just got tired of it. However, I guess your background means you know the jargon we use around the track so carry on.

Just keep blogging like you're the next Laura Hillenbrand. But SHE at least researched and spoke with people in the game, maybe take a lesson from that. When you pass your thank you's around it'll be a little odd to know that you never spoke to a TRUE racetracker.

LOL at you Dray but what's new? I'm not the first or the last to do that.

Guess you're calling whoever wrote that particular blog a liar? It may not have been Jason, then it was Steve. I know I was surprised to hear that he did have the time.

As far as the others? Remember what Mrs. Wiggins said? Remember it was Kim who hooked up Colette with Chip after reading it on a BLOG? Fact is a large # of people IN the game of horse racing DO subscribe to the Blood Horse and a lot of us DO get the alerts and read the website. Some I know stopped reading when the stuff in this and other pubs turned negative against them, but they will read positive stuff once in a while (that's about how often it's on here).

PLEASE don't try and act like you're informed and on the inside. People on the track would close ranks against someone like you so fast it'd make your head swim.

Cindi maybe you are new but MTB was not a factor for the WIN in any race since the Derby.  Closing in on a horse that is 50 ft from the wire looks good but was never a factor for the win.  At No POINT did it look like he was going to win that race or any other since the Derby.  In the Belmont he was passed like he was standing still.

Let me ask you and every other MTB fan one question.  How many more races does he have to lose before you admit the Derby win was just a stroke of luck?  Two more? Four more?  How many ?  If he loses every single race next year too will you admit it?

    I love it, Ship the Kentucky Derby Winner back to Woodbine, He isn't a Stakes horse, They did the horse a disservice by gelding him?, Really?  The truth is, If Mine that Bird wasn't gelded he wouldn't have been the Kentucky Derby Winner and hit the board in nine out of thirteen starts, Made over two million dollars.  Mine that Bird was a problem and wouldn't focus on the track, Rearing up, Bothered by other horses,  His mind wasn't where it should have been. Mine That Bird quieted down right away and was much more focused after being gelded.  Mine That Bird’s behavior left little doubt that it was necessary at the time to geld him.  At the time, He was trying to become a racehorse not another breeding machine. If Mine That Bird behaved at the track as he was behaving at the farm before he was gelded, it would have been a huge problem. I an still dumbfounded at the disrespect this Champion gets, Mind-boggling...

     Then this beauty, After just tying Personal Ensign's Record with utter ease, Never losing in thirteen starts, Now I read that Zenyatta will get beat by EVERYONE(The boys, Careless Jewel,Proviso, Any European fillies or mares)...

    As Carl Spackler would say, "I have to laugh"...

Lazmannick, well it is good to see you care. I did'nt know Obama was a Queen by the way. You assumed I am English eh? Well, I am half English and half German - a crazy mix. A bit like you Americans - mongrel blood. But I live here now and this is my country.

Greg, I have more class than you could handle.  

I did include Arlington. Lone Star???? Methinks not.

CRAIG

One doesn't have to agree on all points to enjoy a post and I wasn't being sarcastic so take it easy pal.  Thanks for the response nontheless.

Paula Higgins

Lets us agree to disagree.  I see a lot of global/ international aspects to Horse racing that impact American Racing especially in the Breeding industry.  The shuttling of stallions across the globe, the marketing of yearlings and the correlating of Grade 1 standard races in America with Group 1 standard races in Europe are cases in point.  To be global doesn't mean that the product has to be identical in all aspects (refer to that insightful column by Steve Haskin comparing and contrasting American racing with its European counterpart).  I am not saying that HOTY is an international award as it is open only to horses that have raced in the United States but its prestige should have international appeal and therefore should not be prejudicial to any horse that could also possibly stand at stud in the USA at some point as the great European champions Sea Bird and Nijinsky did.

As for the unconventional wisdom of the Nobel Prize committee which I admire, I rest my case.  Time will tell.

Blessings.

Shawn P,

    You can't compare the Super Bowl to our races, not any sport with teams really. As I said it would be easier to compare it to the olympics, but still not quite, because again you have Teams, not individuals racing. Also just to let you know just cause that sujestion is open to comments, doesn't mean I won't comment back. For one this would involve more countries thatn just us and Europe. This would involve Japan, Australia, Ireland, France, Britan, the UAE. Point two it is only two horses form each country per division, based on points. How is that anything like we do now? This could be compare to Olympics because you have teams from all over the world meating in one area, that is never fixed, to duke it out.

Good Point Paula,

    I agree we would need a whole governing body first, which is kinda what we need over in America aswell. I think that if over the next few years if that governing body ever became real, we could work something out.

I love Lethal Heat (I know, I say this constantly;-)), she's the mare I'd want if I could pick, but she was going to get beat by Zen no matter what.

SHE is an IRON HORSE to me, back to back weekends, second in both...

Did you see where Barry Abrams says he's going to run her in the Distaff on Friday and the Turf Sprint on Saturday? I'm not keen on that...officials say they'll let him as long as she passes a vet exam...good thing for race day bute and lasix (NOT).

    With Sea the Stars retired, I think it is now almost a sure thing that Zenyatta will take the boys on in the Breeders Classic, If so, She will be the favorite and cement her place in history with a Victory and retire with a perfect record,  If so, Let's see what the naysayers will say then :)

With an allowance winner racing at some rinky dinky track,Gitano Hermando beating some of if not the best horses offered up for the classic,Summer Bird is probably the best bet in the barn and word has it he wont like plastic,they are probably scouting for more aircraft at the moment and that puts the connections of the great Zenatta on the backfoot.She will finally have to run.

Rechelle- Maybe you didn't hear but not all synthetics are created equal. Maybe the reason he ran better @ Woodbine is he was facing easier company. As someone else said and I agree, the Goodwood was more of an informational race for MTB.He got beat by 3 1/4 lengths and ran the last 1/8 in 11. KD 1st,a very close 2nd to The Great RA in the Preakness and third in the Belmont after a gueling Triple Crown. No Factor?

Another Euro Racing Machine/Legend---retired at the ripe old age of....three....

Zenyatta Fans, I would tend to agree her race was just so impressive the 97 BEYER that she received I believe, almost topped her year best beyer of 99.  BLAH

Running those number on dirt gets you beat 3 out of 4 times at the Grade 1 level and 2 out of 4 times at the Grade II level.  Sorry just not that impressive to me.  I enjoy Zenyatta, not her connections though, confused people have kept her hid in California on her surface, yes she won at Oaklawn and beat a Ginger Punch who was being geared up for a vigorous campaign, Zenyatta's campaigns, or 2 years of racing have been the easiest that I can ever recall, she was put in allowance race after allowance race, and when real horses finally came out thus far she's faced 2 tough fields in the L.C. and L.S. each time her main rivals were dirt horses whose form did not transfer to synthetics.  Could she face and defeat Goldikova, Not on Goldi's worst day, could she have defeated Zarkava last year. LOL, I mean imagine if the Aga Khan had announced he was sending Zarkava over to run in either of the Classic races last year how Jerry Moss would have waited until Zarkava was placed before placing Zenyatta, if they would have announced like Lethal Heat's connections she would run in both races they would have scratched Zenyatta from running all-together.  This is not sportsmanship, place your horse in the easiest spot 4 or 5 times and she's the freshest horse in North American because of the cup-cake schedule in 2008 and 2009 then she faces a field of dirt horses at Santa Anita and wins and you begin to plead for HOY honors, are you kidding me.  This is what has made this year and the hit and miss Rachel vs Zenyatta situation so awful, Zen's connections wait until Rachel is pushed hard against colts to say, oh now that your horse is tired lets have a race, but before in June when Moss announced they were shipping Zenyatta again and Rachel went out and won the Mother Goose by 19 1/4 he balks and says no, no, we are going to focus on the B.C. They are laughable people, and if you want to take up for people of that nature please go ahead and do so, but I like sporting connections who say, lets let the horse decide HOY on the track against the most difficult of opponents all year long not in one race, against dirt horses on a foreign surface.  Love Zenyatta the connections Not so much, they disrespect the game.  Long Live the Dirt.

Rechelle,

You need to watch Zens race again.  When she made the lead at the top of the stretch her ears stood straight up and stayed that way til the finish..  It was actually very funny,  she was on cruise control......

LDP:

I'm saying she's using the same gears to beat the same fillies and mares, because that's all she's been asked to do. I'm not saying she can't beat males, I'm saying it is time to END THE SPECULATION on how she would do against them.

RA beat fillies by 19 and 20 lengths, and had to be all-out to beat males in the Preakness and Woodward. It takes another set of gears to follow the pace against the boys, and still close fast enough to win. That's why no filly or mare has ever won the Classic, and very few have tried.

So far, Zenyatta has only proven she can beat upon fillies and mares. It's time for the Mosses to let her really shine in the biggest spotlight the US have to offer.

Matthew:

I stand corrected. Guess I should have written "her HOME STATE". I hope you see the point I'm trying to make.

By the way, how many miles will they have to ship her, to go from Santa Anita to Hollywood Park?

Isn't a multi-million dollar race on her home state, only a few miles from her home base and on one of her preferred surfaces, and with the HOTY title on the line, as well as the title of "first female to beat the boys in the Classic" a good enough reason??????

Mr. Moss: C'mon man!!! put up or shut up!!!

Godolphin is LOADED for bear this year! Love their Music Note, but, face it, vs Zenyatta she's in tough.....LOVE Gayego, think he's the winner of the Sprint!.....Love Giralamo, his Jerome was one of the strongest races of last weekend, and thats saying a lot!

Householder, what about the star-studded Saturday at Belmont that drew only 7,000?

I'm probably late with this comment, but I see that Sea the Stars has been retired.  I reacted to this news on another blog and won't repeat everything, but why such a great and sound runner has to streak across the sky like a freakin' comet and then be gone, well, I don't understand it.  Not saying a trip to California would be in the horse's best interests, but why couldn't he run next year? Thought the young owner was fabulously wealthy.

I know, the owner can do what he wants to with his horse, I just don't understand why he wants to.  He is a young man and I would imagine it's an awful lot of fun to be the owner of Sea the Stars. Odds are he'll never have another one like him.

Benedict Arnold,

     If you call having class making a remark about Zenyatta losing and some Japanese Eating her for dinner, Well, You and I have a different definition of the word, Classless is more like it...

The time to "test" Zenyatta is over.  If they were going to challenge the boys at 1 1/4 they would have put her in the Pacific Classic where she would have been the favorite.  The Pacific Classic would have come almost 1 month after her Del Mar Hirsch win.  Now we can all look foward to her 14th win.

How about some discussion about some other CA BC horses.  We do have more than Zenyatta.  MAGICAL FANTASY's Yellow Ribbon was her third consecutive grade 1.  She punched a 159.59 for 1 1/4 on the turf.  Looks good...

Pam S.  Sorry to hear about the low attendance at Belmont.  Has anyone heard the status of Santa Antita after the Breeder's Cup?  I have heard that there have been no acceptable offers while it has been in Chapter 11.  

What is Parading 0-3 now on the west coast.  Things are looking grim in the Classic Division.  

Del Mar is poised to take over racing dates when Hollywood Park folds.  Could be a whole new era for CA racing.  

LDP, It is OUR Super Bowl, World Series (which isn't the World) NCAA championships etc rolled into one. Not sure what it is to YOUR people, but to us in the game it definitely is OUR biggest days in racing.

The Olympics don't pay money, not even to the winning team like the NCAA's (get pd for each advancement).

THAT is what WE all think of it.

The Derby may be bigger in attendance but more horses have more opportunities on BC Days.

Leave the Olympics with the Dressage, jumping, eventing or whatever else they do.

The 'official' attendance at Belmont on Saturday was 5400 the on track handle was 1.13 mil. It was kind of cloudy and seemed like less people there.

Keeneland attendance on Friday was 11,00+ and it was fairly crowded. Heard Saturday was 21,936  1.759 mil was bet and Oak Tree was 20.000+ but their handle was 2.7 mil. Not sure what the all source handle was, the ISW and the ITW.

Small wonder the little state of KY has the best attendace at the BC, Derby. TB Horse country.

DNF.

Who cares if MTB ever wins another race? If he's happy, healthy and enjoying running who cares if he finishes 2nd,3rd or 4th or close up out of the money like Saturday, in the rest of his races for the rest of his career?

Don't think he says "oh sh** I just finished 2nd in a G1 and I'M the DERBY winner."

If you don't like him? Don't bet him. If you think he'll mess up one of your exotics? Don't bet the race.

There is NO rule that says a horse that wins the Derby must never lose again and if he does must never run again. There won't be an * behind his name in the Derby Museum and the notation that he didn't win how many ever races after the Derby.

SOME people are thrilled to finish 2nd or 3rd or even 4th in a G1.

It's NOTHING to you if he doesn't win again. HE wasn't the first horse to not win after a big win and he won't be the last. Get over it. If you aren't involved in the ownership or plan to send them a check to help support him, then it's NOTHING to you. If you want to manage him, see if you can buy them out.

Like Chip said if it had been another horse people would have said that wasn't bad off a 10 week layoff. Didn't you make excuses for QR 2nd and 3rd starts off a 12 week layoff? Also like he said, NO G1 anywhere this year has had the slow fractions they did in that race for the first 1/2 on a fast track. Just think you must have lost more than you could afford on him.

As for Lethal Heat? Hmmm, what did Barry Abrams say about that? Oh yes:

"She's unbeatable," Abrams said of Zenyatta"

Householder, what's the most recent lowdown on Del Mar and the Terminator's attempt to reclaim the land? Everyone is sure hoping that it all works out for Santa Anita though. I thought another track like Pomona or something was going to take the dates for Hollywood? Did that not work out?

Shawn P,

     What do you mean MY ppl? Do you think I'm British? Well no, I happen to be an American citizen. Born and raise right in the USA. When you give me some example as to how the Superbowl and the BC are anything alike other than they are both big days in their respective sports, then maybe I'll get why the two are compared. Otherwise they are too different to be compared.

Leon,

    Huh? I think you've got the wrong person, lol.

Cindy and Karen,

Thanks for your responses.  I was actually trying to say "good on his connections" for withdrawing him from a race for what may have seemed a minor thing after surgery.  And I like the idea that Chip seems to work from the fact that these horses need some work for endurance.  

My web cam feed is not the best so it's nice to know that MTB is settling down.  Kudos to his connections for letting us share in the life of this horse a little bit.

Like some other horses, MTB needs a race to play out a particular way for him.  IF the Goodwood was just a tune up, and IF the horse can come to grips with the surface, he's as legit a contender as others.

I'd still like to know why Talamo thinks he gets across it fine and Borel says no.  Is there that much difference between breezing and racing?

SHAWN P

You continually like to drop the fact that you know individuals in the racing industry,ok maybe you are connected. My question is,so what? What does that mean? You aren't the only by far!

DRAYNAY

Thanks and good luck for the weekend!

LDP,

   Shawn was saying that the Breeder's Cup was the Super Bowl, NCAA championships, and the World Series all wrapped into one Breeder's Cup Championship, Not comparing the sports but the importance of the event.  His references of "WE", "OUR", and  "YOUR" was referring to your phrase, " to OUR races"...

Whats with all the fighting on this blog? This has gone from some great discussion into mud slinging. Every single poster (with the exception of maybe one or two : ) has something to offer on these boards. Regardless if we agree or disagree. We sure don't lack passion.. that's for sure.

I will tell you what gets me EVERYTIME...when someone states that a particular horse "dodged" the competition. C'mon people... either re-word your post or don't say it. MTB,RA,ZEN have as much control over who thier owners are as you did over who your parents were. They don't "dodge" the competition. You could put any one of them on what ever track you choose against who ever you choose and that horse will run. Do you really think they know who's in the race???? Please...stop already..your killing me here.

Mike I'm not saying that I just know individuals in racing. I'm saying that WE are IN racing ourselves.

You said YOU own horses so you must know that it's a different perspective from a fan who does not and has NEVER owned race horses. THAT is my point.

My point to LDP is that SHE nor anyone who has NEVER run horses in any of these races can tell US who HAVE what the Breeders Cup or any of these other races mean to US who HAVE run and DO run in them. Got it?

LDP THAT is what I mean by YOUR people. THOSE outside the GAME who have NO idea what any of it means as related to BEING IN THE GAME, RUNNING RACE HORSES IN THE GAME. You have a perspective that is DIFFERENT from ours, got it?

That is and has been MY whole point and the point of OTHERS on here who OWN, TRAIN, BREED or WORK with horses who are ON the TRACK, will soon be ON the TRACK.

WE don't necessarily see things the SAME way a FAN who approaches it from a different viewpoint altogether and who DOES NOT have a vested interest in the horses that are running.

People including LDP are continuously trying to speak FOR us, like they KNOW what we go through, what's important to US WHO ARE IN THE GAME, how we should feel about things and what things mean to US.

THEY CANNOT, THEY DON'T KNOW. NOw do you understand?????

Karen, it's a love hate relationsip. Some of these people proclaim to love the game, yet they hate the people in it and worse yet HATE when we speak from a point of knowledge.

I don't think you'll ever see me or anyone else who owns or trains even ONE of these animals, disrespecting another one of the horses (well except Rick Dutrow). It fires me up when people DO and then when they try to demean what those of us in the industry want to say about things.

They've done it to the people in the Q&A segments, they've done it to people who DON'T post here, they do it to those of us in the game who are stupid enough to want to share information and discuss things on the blogs. I guess it makes them feel more knowledgeable to be posting without benefit of people in the industry so they can say whatever nonsense and disrespect the animals, people they know nothing about.

Well, soon everyone will be wary of saying anything and then it'll be how uncooperative and arrogant the people in the industry are or a ton of garbage being thrown out there for more speculation and misinformation.

Me? If I got a chance to listen to a great football coach being interviewed, a player giving his insight into a closed world? I'd be all ears and while I might have questions I would NEVER show the disrespect shown to racetrackers like is shown here over and over again. Like the comments about Bob Baffert, John S, Hal W, Larry J etc when they gave their time to Jason for a Q&A.

Or the random disrespect shown to MTB, Zenyatta, SB  or Todd P, Wayne, Chip etc etc.

We can differ without being disrespectful and face it without thinking that they know more than someone who is in the game.

I can tell you we all appreciate the fans, but when is it counterproductive?

I can say though that there are many on here who question, opine and still do it in a productive and positive manner. THOSE are the fans we really appreciate even when they disagree.

SHAWN P

Ok,I'm done debating! I see your point from your last point.

Horsefirst. Yes there is a lot of difference between breezing and running a race.

The biggest difference from morning to afternoon is the condition of the surface. That is what guys like Baffert etc are saying. Also I have read from the manufacturers that it actually does play quite a bit differently in cooler weather.

Shawn P having just attended Pomona I think this is a bit of a stretch being that it is a 5/8 mile track with no turf.  It's fun to sit and watch the horses try to take the turns.  The last I read was the the State was putting forth 20 year bids for someone like the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club to do day to day operations at Del Mar.  Your right though, Del Mar is owned by the state of California which has put it on a list of properties for potential sale (just like San Quenton).  However, in a down market the President of Del Mar claims that Gov Square head has over estimated its land value (almost 2x) being that it sits in a flood plain.  However, it has a beach view and I'm sure some developer could put all the homes on stilts and people in CA would still fight over them.

Householder, I may be wrong on the track that wanted their dates. Thanks for the info though. Isn't the economy so bad there that they are totally cutting the prices in half of those McMansions as they call them back there?

I just think if it was me I'd want everything to stay status quo for right now and bide their time. But maybe that makes too much sense to Ahhnold. LOL

Mike, thanks. I really don't like to argue. It's just so frustrating watching and hearing all the beat downs when our industry is already beat down. Just seems to me that a lot of it is misinformation.

Tell me true dude, isn't your dream to win the Derby? Or a BC race at the very least? It's awesome to win ANY race but one of those, if you haven't won one yet is awe inspiring.

Hate to argue with someone who loves Ms Zen as much as we both do.

Draynay - I cannot believe for a second that none of the other owners/trainers considered MTB a "factor" in the Preakness or the Belmont.  Just because YOU never consider him a factor on opinion doesn't mean you can state that as fact. Based on the definition of "factor" any horse who runs in a race and is in the form to win it presents a "factor" for every other runner to consider. If said horse places 1, 2 or 3 HE HAS TO BE FACTOR!!

I take issue with your global statements and opinions stated as if they are fact.  We already know you hate the horse so give it a rest.  

The "my horse is better than your horse" arguments are extremely childlike and annoying. They are irrational at best.

I for one have not made excuses for any of the horses I cheer for or bet on.  And no, I am not new to MTB but my opinion of him is very different than yours. I do, however, educate myself on the different elements playing into a horse's development, health and a particular race so I can learn more about the sport in general and enjoy it more thoroughly.

This blog is setting all time records.....Jason just published it this morning and by 9:10 EST there are 392 posts.....WOW

Shawn P.,

Thank you for the information about differences in breezing and racing.  Wonder if that is common with dirt tracks, other than weather related?

I also understand that it's apples and oranges trying to compare different poly surfaces, so just because MTB got around Woodbine does not translate into doing well at Santa Anita.

Laz, you been drinking the 'energy drink'? This was posted on 10/9. LOL

My understanding is it is similar on dirt tracks. That's what they call 'morning glories'. They work bullets, run great in the a.m. and it just doesn't translate to the afternoon. Conversely some do better in the races because they're lazy in the a.m. Whether that's because the track takes a pounding in the a.m. with all the works in between the breaks where they harrow? But I've also heard the more horses that work over synthetics the better the horses work on it, but the quicker it breaks down and harder it is to keep. That's just what I've heard about the surfaces at S.A.

Draynay, I had to have my husband revive me after I fainted from you agreeing with anything I said.  But I am curious ... what did you agree with???  We never agree on anything normally.

Paula, I'm sorry, as much as I like Zenyatta (and I *DO* like her), I just think she's past her prime.  Maybe it's because of how her connections have handpicked her races this year but I think she's peaked.  Of course she takes one stride for every 2 strides of other horses, she's at least a hand taller than any of them.  I think the Euros will beat her this year because they have all faced tougher competition.  The Euros are going to send the best of the best (with the exception of Sea The Stars).  I also think that Careless Jewel is a better horse than Zenyatta is.  I don't know about Stardom Bound, since she's been off for so long.  

PMAC29, the fact still remains,she made her move a lot earlier than she ever does.  She was never at the back of the pack like she normally is and she made her move in the turn instead of in the stretch.  If she'd made in the stretch, she may have been beat (although I will admit I doubt it).

I will admit, if Zenyatta goes in the Ladies Classic, she will likely win, with her only competition being Careless Jewel or the Euros.  If she goes in the Classic, she gets beat by the Euros.

Shawn P

I thought I was still looking at the other blog....just goes to show you that Draynay isn't the only one that doesn't know what he's talking aobut.

Laz, not at all. Sometimes we can go temporarily bonkers READING HIS gibberish.

Makes us dizzy, lose all sense of reality and perspective. Another planet or dimension!

Borel said that MTB just needed to get back on the right surface.  Now their putting "stickers" or some type of cleat on his back shoes.  As a better, I'm listening to the jockey and not the trainer on this one.  

Paula and Shawn,

I said some horses prefer one type of track over another. As well as I will say that some horses like Parading do better in Keenelands poly than Californias three different synthetic tracks.  Just as some horses prefer one dirt track to other dirt tracks.  Cause they are all different, which makes things more interesting and more difficult to handicap.  My thing is about the labeling of a turf horse, to dirt horse, depending upon where the horse is from.  I will ask the question and nobody answered it, Why are European horses automatically considered turf horses and South American horses who normally run on turf are not considered.  Shawn if you have the stats then show them man.  All I can go by is by the sire standings and they show the same horses dominating dirt racing are dominating synthetics.  I dont see Theatricals offspring or El Prados for that matter getting a big jump over AP Indy and Distorted Humor or even Unbridleds Song.  If you want to go to an all plastic state, than Unusual Heat, Bertrando, Benchmark, and others are still dominating the top ten state sire lists as they did before the change, and Swiss Yodeler continues to be the dominant force in the juvenile ranks as he has always been.  So difference on results is not much.  To me this whole turf to synth, or turf to dirt thing has been a puzzle that will never be solved.  Back in the day I saw a so called turf horse Nasr El Arab romp in the Strub Stakes over dirt and mud runners. I saw a very fast Simply Majestic burn up turf tracks and dirt tracks in record times, in fact once was a world record. Some Ap Indys run only on turf, others only run dirt, others only run mud, others run firm turf, others soft, you get my drift.  Where does it say that all Sadler's Wells offspring only run on turf.  Nobody will know unless they try it.  Horsemen today rarely take those chances.  An old timer like Woody or Charlie would try horses out on anything until they figured out what was there best running style, preferred track, best distance, and keep him at that.  A horse like Princequillo probably would never have a future in this age, Because there are not many guys who think like Horatio Luro either.

And Shawn, if they are the World Championships, then why weren't Ravens Pass and Ventura named World Champions. Face it man its a gimmik.

The question is why doesn't the Breeders Cup Classic attract some of the horses that Dubai World Cup does.  That race in the past has attracted some of the best turf horses in Europe as well as some of our best American Champions.  The results on a dirt track have gone almost 50-50 between the Darley Euro horses and the Americans, Based on that its almost like the American contingency has failed in their journeys to Dubai, Since dirt racing is our bread and butter, but the results in the history of that race back up my statement that a horse no matter where they are from, can run on any surface without a label to carry with him or her.  The impact on the results of the new Meydan racetrack remains to be seen.  The change to Tapeta is not something I understand, but we should start asking the questions to the powers that be if there is something going on that the public and media do not know about, because thats too many high profile racetracks already changing to synthetics.  Now I know the price of sand has gone up, I dont know if that has anything to do with it, and I know there is a lack of water in the world right now, I think each racetrack better start thinking of having water treatment and water recycling plants installed in them for one.  The way things look is that synthetics are here to stay and more and more tracks are going to do the change.  The questions are why? Pro-ride to me has not made a big impact in safety, neither has Polytrack or Cushion.  Now I dont know how Tapeta has done, I Havent heard much of whats happened at Presque Isle and Golden Gate, as there hasn't been much talk or any at all come out of those tracks compared to other tracks with different synthetic footing.  I know its creator is a legendary trainer and one of its biggest fans is jockey Gary Stevens, who has backed up Tapeta but not the other synthetic tracks.  Jason, if anybody can find out why is this trend happening, please let the public know about it. To me track surfaces are not the biggest problem, to me its drugs and the lack of marketing support the sport receives.

Relva,you're the biggest fraud on here,bar none.  congrats!

CARLOS

Really? That means alot coming from someone that is a graduate of "clown school".   lol

Emilio, I think they were World Champions.

They didn't win the Eclipse awards because those aren't WORLD awards.

I said the BC is important to us in the game because of the chance to win ALL the moolah. (rough translation of a Woodyism)

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. I said horses usually have a preference for one surface or another. That was in response to you or whoever said they should be able to run on everything (don't remember who right now). What has the most effect on Dubai is the shipping. We've done pretty well over there on the dirt but now that it's synthetic???

If you really think everyone is going to synthetics, then I think you're mistaken.

It ISN'T what was promised, it ISN'T cost effective, nor handicapper friendly and what it's doing to Cal racing? Most others don't want to go that direction.

I'm hearing more and more in the game talking about it being eradicated from the scene in 10 years. If the NTRA forces it? The tracks will just not join the NTRA.

I don't think it's responsible for anyone to force something so cost prohibitive on an industry that's struggling right now without some kind of 'stimulus package' (lol)

Shawn P,

I will put simple.  I said that a horse can come from anywhere and be able to run on the dirt, and on turf etc. Thats it.  I also said that some horses prefer different surfaces over others.  Enough said about that.  About synthetics, I have said all along they are not needed.  My question is why are they even putting them?,  You say in 10 years they will be gone.  I hope you are right.  If I had my wish they should be gone already.  why 10 years from now.  It was wrong for California to enforce this on their premier tracks.  Now this surfaces dont come cheap, so changing back and forth again especially in these trying times is a very difficult task to do considering most tracks are not even making money right now.  

I have been in a hardcore pursuit for uniformity in this sport.  As well as a point system installation kind of like NASCAR, to determine championships.  Will we ever see it, I dont have the answer for that, but it is an issue that should be addressed.

As for the Breeders Cup, it needs to make a bigger impact than it does at the moment.  Its importance should be placed higher than any other event in the calendar, championships should be decided on that day if there is no point system to follow.  Agree with you though, as to me the two horses I mentioned are World CHampions even though the industry did not consider them as such.  I also say that that this whole war oon words of Europe vs America is nonsense, as the sport of Racing is universal.  I ask any of you this, If Stonerside never sells Midshipman and Ravens Pass, Would that still count as a Euro dominated Cup. Of course not.  The only thing that happened last year was that Americas best horse got beat last year in Americas most important race, so the whole cup was a catastrophe to the American Media, Calling it a Euro Domination.  They can call it whatever they want, to me it was a great 2 days of racing, the results might have not been what most of us wanted, because some of our favorites lost, but all in all it was great.  And this year even with the absentees, the Cup's races will be great.  I just wish they had more meaning to some owners out there who try to be bigger than the cup and bigger than the sport itself.

"I am so tired of reading the bull about racing surfaces, or a turf horse and a dirt horse.  Trainers, owners, half of them can't even tell a difference between a turf horse and a dirt horse.  Do you people know why, its because there is no difference, they are horses, they are made the same.  They all have the same bone structure, the same flesh.  Its ridiculous, all these excuses made by horsemen, turf writers and even bloggers.

EmilioP 12 Oct 2009 6:39 PM"

THAT was what I was addressing.

Then this contradictory statement:

"I will put simple.  I said that a horse can come from anywhere and be able to run on the dirt, and on turf etc. Thats it.  I also said that some horses prefer different surfaces over others.  Enough said about that.EmilioP 14 Oct 2009 9:21 PM"

Sorry but I'm not sure if there are two Emilio's or you're saying two different things.

As far as having more meaning to owners? I've been hitting that subject HARD. It means a LOT to owners. Just that the horses mean MORE, in the case of somebody who DOESN'T  want to race a 2 year on the synthetics, who will probably never run on them again who is being thought of as a TC horse, dirt horse the future of the horse means MORE.

I get it that you are a Cal guy, but owners aren't ALL trying to be bigger than the cup or the sport. It KILLS some to have to make a decision about this but it isn't in the BEST interest of all the horsses to take them to Cal.

Personally, I think the trainers who can't determine after a try on it which surface a horse prefers isn't a particularly good trainer.

ShawnP,

I´m not trying to say two different things, i´m probably not wording it right for you.  My first point is I don´t like the labels of turf horses or dirt horses attached to any horse that comes from a certain pedigree or a certain country. I dont like labeling something without proof.  How does anybody know a horse from South Africa or Australia, where races are mostly run on turf like Europe, how can anybody know for a fact that particular horse wont do well on the dirt when he or she hasnt even tried it yet.  Same goes with people here say we cant go to  the Arc because we dont breed that type of horse, that statement drives me crazy, because there has been Arc winners bred in Kentucky. How would we know if nobody even sents some horses to actually compete over there regularly. I mean Urban Sea was by Miswaki, a horse who was taken to run in Europe given that on paper he had a great pedigree to run in America, Mr. Prospector out of a Buckpasser mare, you dont get more American than that.   The same goes for jockeys and trainers.  Jean Luc Samyn, Fernando Toro, Brice Blanc, are jockeys labeled as turf riders given there success, but if you ask them about that and they will tell you they hate that label because to them they can ride any horse on any surface just as well.  Same goes to a guy like Bill Mott, Cristophe Clement, Jonathan Sheperd, these are guys more known for their handling of turf specialists, yet if you ask them if they like being labeled as turf trainers, they tell you they dont like that label either.  For one reason, all three of them have been open about winning a Kentucky Derby, and I am not one to argue with them, that if given the right horse to run in the Triple Crown, those three trainers dont need a lesson to take from anyone.  But labels unfortunately put a limit on potential without garnering that merit.  I mean Cigar was put through the turf races for a while because of his pedigree.  I ask you this, why did Bill Farish sent Mineshaft to start his career in Europe? given that the man has never had a Kentucky Derby winner. Was mineshaft automatically labeled a turf horse because he was sent to Europe to compete? If you have the answer to that let me know, I would think it is because they were high on the horse, so they senthim to try to compete in Europes top races maybe even an Epsom Derby.  So it went wrong for them, they brought him back and got a Horse of the Year in America.  And we are left wondering what might have been had he stayed in America in the first place.  Thats all I´m trying to say.  I said already in my first post that I know that some horses have preferences for surfaces, as you have to agree that some horses dont have a preference and run on anything disregarding pedigree or where they come from.  But attaching labels is dangerous, why?, because you potential.  Like the breeding industry limits the potential of certain sires because they were better as older horses, or ran mostly on turf or on longer distances.  Its because of those labels that we are destroying the breed, and I include myself in it.  Because we breed Raise a Native to Northern Dancer, while other sire lines are quickly disappearing, and its a shame.  

As for me, yes I hace Cali roots, but I´m on the East Coast now for the last 10 years.  No I dont like the synthetics, never have, to me its like racing on a land fill man, its garbage.  But when can anybody do now out there or in anywhere that has them not run?, if that is the answer than it all ends.  Its catastrophic.  What can anybody do, they passed that proposition, tracks are plastic, it sucks, but if you boycott it or leave than its over, kiss it all goodbye, many jobs are being lost already, if that happens California will lose an entire industry.  

Shawn,

You´re right they are not how they painted them, but is a trainer and an owner supposed to do but go with the flow.  Now if you say they will be gone in 10 years, than why is one of the most powerful man in the sport putting it on his new racetrack.  Why doesnt he just leave it dirt like Nad Al Sheba.  You have to question it man, there is something weird going on.  These surfaces cost millions of dollars, they are successful businesses now obviously, Michael Dickinson gave up his day job to go around the world and sell his brand, and he´s doing quite well.  

I dont know where it will all end.  All I know is that we have to play with the hand that is dealt.  As for the Breeders Cup, They keep dropping the ball a lot lately.  I ask people, if its to help out Frank, why dont they just do it at Gulfstream or Laurel or Pimlico.  Maryland has never hosted one, this would have been great for that state.  I mean they host the Preakness, and they have never hosted a Breeders Cup.

Anyway I hope I´ve cleared the confusion.  Its cool debating with you man, you have more comebacks than a politician, and I mean that in a good way.

Emilio, I'm just saying what most in racing are saying. The syns have been visited upon us and they are a disappointment.

Dickinson? Mediocre success with a select few horses and not enough horses, business on the side turned into the main. How many of them has he sold here?

Sheikh Mo? Gotta do something to pay back Abu Dhabi and figure out how to fill up the mall and the empty buildings and get the foreign workers and tourists back there.

HE started building that track when times were golden, when someone would lend them money and when the syns were supposedly the savior of racing.

Just like with Stronach when people were worried about him buying up every track in the USA almost. Now we're paying for it.

Also, I think enough were anti on the CHRB and now more are seeing the light. Lets hope one of these super rich guys who don't like it ponies up and pushes the change, and pays for it!

Likewise dude. Always fun to debate and keep it cool and interesting.

Politics? No way...........