Mastercraftsman has to be played much like the Ronco Rotisserie--you have to "bet it and forget it."

The F/M Sprint is tough...my 3 favorite fillies...IB,ID,V...wish it was triple DH.

Rooting for "Capt CMC"...have since the beginning of the year.

Presious Passion...he's earned it.

Forever Together...since her beginning.

Goldikova...run like a girl, baby!

I like CoT and am really liking...hmmm, what's his name...hmm...I've Misremembered...

Anybody can win in the Juvenile...is Aspire running? I like him.

Z's in the Classic, so CJ in the Distaff.

Einstein, 'cause he and Helen have earned it! Otherwise happy if Z, SB, MTB, QR.

As you can tell, betting logic has nothing to do with it for me at the BC.

Jason

As good as Zenstional is and I really like him, I think he’s in deep…..I think that the sprint is probably going to be the most contentious race on the card, certainly from top to bottom the deepest (if all the stars come)……We saw another potential monster in the Ancient Title in Gayego.  I know he needs a fast pace to set it up and he should get it because Fatal Bullet was very impressive at Keenland…..If Fatal Bullet runs with Zensational early, watch out for Gayego when they hit the wire.

Would Zenyatta be a beat em if she ran in the Classic?

I agree with your summary of the Classic. If anything, after last year, many bettors will be assuming that the Euro's will dominate. They may be correct -- but in my mind Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman will be underlays. They have to travel and there are a number of very good California horses who have a "home field advantage".  I predict that the Classic superfecta payoff will light up the board!

Filly & Mare Sprint -

I have to agree with you on Ventura Jason. I loved the way she came into this race last year as I knew that Indian Blessing was going to take all the money when Baffert had noted repeatedly that she just wasn't the same horse on this surface, and I was rewarded at 5-2. This year, Godolphin brings a strong hand, and you've got Informed Decision who is still undefeated with huge beyers at the distance and on synthetics. It's tough for me to get off Ventura though, especially off the Woodbine Mile & her affinity for this course (Just watch this race last year & Santa Monica), but Informed Decision will be the biggest threat. Probably the coldest exacta box of the day, with a little more Ventura on top.

Sprint - Zensational has been a monster out West this year. And he'll be the deserving favorite, but maybe too low for my liking. He'll finally running into a horse that will be able to push all the way. Fatal Bullet. Throw Cost of Freedom in there, and the pace should be torrid. After seeing how the pro-ride has played so far, I'm playing against Zensational on top. Question is, which horse that can rate can beat him? Gayego?

Turf - Although the picture for this race is still a bit fuzzy, it would be tough to bet against Conduit if it were to be run today. They started him off at distances that were a little less to his liking early on until they stretched him out to 12f's, in which he won one and ran 4th in the Arc. It's still remains to be seen if the field he'll face this year will be tougher than last, but as of right now, I'll play'em.

Filly & Mare Turf - Another race that's still a bit fuzzy, but Dar Re Mi has been arguably the best Turf Mare in Europe. She was somewhat setting the pace with the rest of the pack behind the rabbits in the Arc, and I believe that put her in a position that she's not used to. She should have a good pace to chase here, but if she's below 2-1, she might be a play against for me. Forever Together caught woodbine and an off course the last two times but I also think she's regressed a bit from last year. But she will get the conditions she likes in this race. Magical Fantasy has been super out West this year, but she reminds me of Megahertz, who beat up a class of horses who are more to me in the G2-G3 level. These will be too much for her to handle.

Mile - I'll throw Goldikova a mulligan on her last run as she was put into a position that doesn't suit her style. The fact that most of the top Euro Milers are still ducking her says a lot and the American contingent hasn't produce a runner that would have this miss shakin' in her boots. Play'er.

Synthetic Mile - Let's get real calling this the "Dirt Mile" like the "Ladies Classic" -  This race looks as much of a grab bag as it did last year, although I thought Well Armed was coming into this race at his peak a year ago. But if Regal Ransom is the choice this year, I'll be playing against big time. He faded his first time on the pro-ride last year, and hasn't tasted synthetic since. Although excuses can be made for that run, I'd want to pick a horse that has experience over the surface.

Juvenile Turf - Still don't have a clue which Euro's will be coming over and until then, as good as Interactif was in his last start, he'll be a play against at a short price. Looks like this year's Bittel Road.

Juvenile - I've never been a real fan of Lookin' At Lucky. Numbers seem to be slow, and he idle's on horses a lot. But seeing what's coming from the East Coast, and seeing how this horse has been improving race by race, it'd be tough to go against the Home Field Advantage here. He'll be a play for me, but I won't have a whole lot of money on it.

Distaff - If Zenyatta goes here, its game over. She's already handled Music Note. Careless Jewel won't be able to carry her speed being that headstrong on this type of surface and no one out west can touch her. A single on all pick 6 tickets.

Classic - Rip Van Winkle was very impressive last time out. Especially when he was caught in a game of cat n mouse, where he had to make several moves in that race. He's the best of the O'Brien clan, and seeing what happened with Gitano Hernando in the Goodwood, you'd figure he'd get tons of play. But if he's below 3/1, he's a play against for me. Curious to see how Tim Ice thinks that Summer Bird is handling the distance as well.

Turf Sprint - Take a closer. Any closer. Actually, if Diamondrella opts to go here, she's my pick against a field that would comprise of mostly G2 types.

Marathon - Not really interested. Got suckered into that Dettori horse last year.

So there are more horses out west than Zenyatta.

Bet Zensational

Beat with Magical Fantasy

Bet Lookin at Lucky

Bet Zenyatta

Beat RVW with Einstein who won the SAH at 1/4 on that track.

Indian Blessing where ever she is being pointed towards.  Baffert is going to have a big day.  I would not discount Midshipman.  This ex-Baffer BC winner looked sharp over this track, I think coming out of a runner up spot in the Norfolk (this time last year).  

I understand Aikenite is coming for the Juvenile and I like him, good effort in last.  Seems like he would adapt well to the surface.

The first favorite to throwout is Zensational(even though it is trained by the great bob baffert),his final time just dont stack up

Gayego is the slam dunk winner-at his best he will run 6f-107

he however did not run that fast in his last race but he was way wide his last trip

OMG the classic is going to be an awesome race! Cant wait! I am telling you QR is going to be hard to beat in the classic he is a fresh horse that is in great form now. Get him on a fast track and look out. The sprint will be a great race too, Gayego is proven and should be able to catch Z at the wire. With all the talent in the classic there is no way Zenyatta will run with the boys!

They make it sound like Ventura improved Five Lengths or something in Woodbine Mile-I however believe she is the same runner who lost to Imformed Decision

i dont know who to play yet but it wont be Ventura

2-1 on Ventura?  No way.  She'll be the shortest price of the day.

Rock, I think you may be right:  No one out west can touch Careless Jewel.  That may include Zenyatta.  I don't think the distance will bother her, and she raced very comfortably last time setting the pace with some quick times.  Zen hasn't seen that pace in some time, and my have to stay closer.  A single could kick you out on all tickets.

F&M Sprint -- Ventura

Sprint -- Fatal Bullet

F&M Turf -- Forever Together

Mile -- Goldikova

Dirt -- Pyro

Ladies Classic -- Zenyatta if she runs Careless Jewel if she doesn't

Classsic -- Zenyatta if she runs (and I hope she doesn't) Einstein if she doesn't

Jason - You should really give up on beating Zenyatta with another female and most likely with a male.  I have had the great pleasure of standing beside Azeri, Ashado, Round Pound, Ginger Punch, Rachel, and Zenyatta.  I really thought Azeri was the best of this group until I saw Zenyatta.  I did not get to see the great Ruffian in the flesh,so I won't compare her to Zenyatta.  I do believe that Rachel is very special, but I still think Zenyatta would win by a head.

F&M Sprint: I would take a shot to beat Ventura with IDec. but thats probably it.(Pick6-Take the two and move on)

Sprint: I think you are off on this one. Zensational is a classic bet against simply because of the race. Great Horses, tons of speed, one half-step loses the race.(Also, the BCSprint produces a lot of winners from off the pace) No horse is better than 5-1 in this situation

Juvenile Turf: Crapshoot. Bet against.

Turf: Bet against Conduit

Classic: Will any horse be better than 4-1? There is no favorite to bet against. But yes, I pass on RVW at less than 5-1.

Dirt Mile: Bet gainst the favorite

Turf Mile: Bet Goldikova

Ladies Classic: Bet Zenyatta, she doesn't become a bet against until she runs at 1 1/4 aginst new horses

I'D RATHER Take 7-1 at the window then take even moneywith you Jason

i guess i better stop using the Slam dunk phrase

Brian

     If Zenyatta were in the Classic, you would be insane to take her for less than 15-1, no less have her vying for favrotism

I don't know enough about the juvenile turf division to make a decision right now, but I usually play against the favorite in 2YO races because juvies are generally the most inconsistent & unpredictable.

Otherwise I'd play the same horses and try to beat the same horses that you mentioned as possible favorites.  One exception is Zenyatta.  How many times have you tried to beat her?  As Albert Einstein once said;  "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

In the classic I'll take Quality Road as an upsetter at 15-1.  Kodiak Cowboy may nip Zen at the wire.  

"Baffert told me they have not asked him yet."  And the one thing I have learned from all the horse trainers I know, they NEVER lie.

I love Zenyatta, but look at the 108 beyers she had going into last year's race and compare that to her numbers this year...that is a serious regression. However, Music Note will also be a play against...Her pattern indicates that she has already hit her peak efforts and they were on dirt.

Ventura has a very similar pattern, and will also be a play against mainly, but of course I will use her in boxes as a saver.

Rip Van Winkle looks too good to me and Mastercraftsman is a play against. I only see two others able to challenge...Summer Bird and Quality Road.

I think that all favorites are bet against or skip the race unless they are true monsters. I haven't seen the horse that fits that description in a Sprint race of this caliber. Going 6 panels, even an average start could put ANY horse out of the race. How low of a price would you take on Zensational, Jason?

Jason,

I think i'm starting to figure out who the "wise guy" horse may be in the Sprint. Gayego! lol. Might have to jump off that boat. I really think he's best at 6 1/2 or 7f's anyways, but he proved he can get the 6f's. What i'm really worried about is how the surface is playing against speed early on. If this holds true, i have to play against Zensational, even though he's a beast.

Lmaris - I was actually saying that the horses based out west can't touch Zenyatta, and that Careless Jewel won't be able to carry her speed on the pro-ride surface being as headstrong she is. Careless Jewel will not beat Zenyatta. Nor any other filly or mare entered against her in the Distaff.

I guess we will see who knows more in a little over 3 weeks.  Also, I never trust a handicapper other than myself.

You completely left out Gayego for the Sprint against Zensational. He certainly has a better chance than Capt. Candyman Can, with this recent victory in the Ancient Title against capable horses. Zensational hasn't been facing very large fields, but Gayego knows his way around and can push his [heavy] weight around. Proven on both dirt and synthetics, you'd be pretty careless not to throw in Gayego.

IF Adian o Brian has the favorite in Classic I am going elsewhere-Iwould like to play Quality Road but i dont know if it can run on plastic-

I need Some new trainers to bet on so it wouldn't matter if Rail Trip or Einstein won

I need a women trainer to add to list beside Jeanine Sahadi who Icant count on

Watch the track for a while (I would suggest 3-4 days).  I don't care what the best 1/2 mile time is for the BC Spint or who owns it. Zensational's style is perfect for that course...and like Jason said he gets to sleep in that day. The same can be said for the Ladies Classic.  Are there faster horses than Z.  You bet.  I'm having flash backs of another very good one in Hysterical Lady who tried and failed on the lead.  I'm sitting in section V...right where Lady Z fires up the rockets.

I definitely will not play against ZENYATTA, VENTURA or GOLDIKOVA. If they're part of a Pick 6 or Pick 4 they will be singles. They're the most obvious choices. MUSIC NOTE has a great chance....you know...of finishing 3rd again this year.

The posts have def. made me schedule a look at Zensationals races again. Always looking for singles for the Pick6.

The Distaff division(at 9f) is one of the most predictable in all of horse racing. Don't get too far away from the favorite.

Jason-Did you cash on the Arc? Youmzain was your LS. Anyone who never bet on the Arc card, it is a must date for handicappers. The amount of dead money in the pool is amazing so the payoffs make you look twice.

Jason,

All turf races I try to beat the favorite.  Won't be any different this year for any turf division.

If Z goes in the classic I will not have her in my exactas anywhere.

Ventura will be hard to beat, but Indian Blessing should be on track to go out with a bang.

I loved Goldikova last year and will not bet against her this year.

Zensational will definitely be a play 'em.

Juvies, I will try to beat the favorite regardless.  First really big stage, big field, anything can happen.

P.S. Why won't the Winstar folks try Colonel John in the Turf Mile?  1:32 and change in the Wickerr showed me a lot.  He showed up at the 3/16ths pole in the classic last year but couldn't finish, and he couldn't outfinish GH this weekend.  I say run him on the turf!

The horses I am not going to bet against are Zenyatta, Zensational and Lookin at Lucky.  In the Classic I will take another shot with Rail Trip though I fear Einstein.

Forget Zen running in the Classic the comp is too tough they want to keep her unbeaten and she has never gone a mile and a quarter.This would have been the same for RA if she would have shown up, limited distance 9 furlongs her best and never would have run in the Classic with all that talent and distance.Ventura looks like a lock, the Classic will be the toughest race to handicap.Euro's look good but Richie loves the track and distance, needs a fast pace.

I am not impressed with Lookin at Lucky who seems to be getting great trip

There must be a horse who has been getting very bad trips

i dont know who it is but good trip experts know-wish i knew

maybe Backtalk

It is amazing how nobody speaks of Summer Bird's chances, given what he's accomplished.  He'll probably be right there at the end.  

The Q.E 11 at Ascot was the race Raven,s Pass won before he went on

to win the Classic last year.This years winner of that race Rip Van Winkle looks to have a good chance

too.He was a good solid second to Sea The Stars in the Eclipse over the same distance as the Classic and like Raven,s Pass has been improving with everyrace.On the assumption that he will be a better price than he should be I will be playing him in all kinds of exotic bets with other horses.

 I agree with you in The Ladies Classic Jason,with or without Zenyatta,Careless Jewel should be a

good price.Judging by her wins in the Alabama and Cottilion I would be more happpier for her if the race was on original dirt but she did win well on a synthectic surface at Woodbine.

Kenneth Ramsey wants to win any Breeder cup so maybe he will be the man in Juv turf and reward his faith in Kitten's Joy

I am 0 for 12 against Zenyatta so why stop there.

I need a Presious Passion type horse to beat her or his Jockey

Jerry Bailey could figure out how to beat Zenyatta

i need the smartest Jockey in the world in this race

Zenyatta, if she goes in the Ladies Classic

Can't go against Rip Van Winkle, unless I get brave and go with Summer Bird in the Breeders Cup Classic.

And others,

Presious Passion

D'Funnybone

I love Zensational and don't think any other horse has the speed or stamina to run with his type of speed. Zenyatta I would also, if I bet would try to beat. CJ and Music Note are just that good, and with CJ on the lead Zen may have to stay close or come after her earlier than normal. Last time she made an early move she won by only half a length. I think she gets beat.

I'm most intrigued by Careless Jewell. How good is she? How crazy is she? How do they smooth out her idiosyncracies? Love to be a fly on the wall in the paddock. If they can ever convince this filly how to run, sky's the limit.

I'll guarantee this, Careless Jewel is a really really talented horse, but in the Distaff... if Zenyatta's in there, she will run OTB. Her style does not suit that surface. In 2003, yes, not in 2009. Nevertheless of her synthetic success. The wise guy horse of the Distaff right there.

Gayego will win the sprint!!

LDP,

She won by a length and a half...in hand.

Interactif (saw him at Keeneland, great rider; Zensational,Zenyatta,Goldikova my bets

Hope for one of the 2 birds in the Classic if Zenyatta stays with the girls.

steve from st louis.

Careless Jewel is pretty, well not crazy, but certainly 'different'?

She's a nuttier version of Stardom Bound last year.

Saw her at Saratoga and man......

I kind of was discussing with someone else though. Maybe curing her of her flakiness would actually HURT her racing style, which is sure something to see.

Guess for some these races are a bet with your heart/bias and less with your head?

I kind of like to see Precious Passion go in the classic.  I dont like the Mile for him or the Turf distance, he would be interesting to see how he would fare in that track.

I don't bet and frankly you guys sound like your talking Chinese with all these "betting" terms... but I sure enjoy the posts...very interesting stuff.

This guy Jason picks against Zenyatta.

Are you on dope or are you just a degenerate gambler that likes to throw his money away?

Your either high or your from the East Coast. There's no other way of looking at it.

Zenyatta will win where ever she races she dosn't know who she's racing aginst she just runs!

ok heres some early ideas

SPRINT-CAPT CANDYMANCAN

LADIES CLASSIC-CARELESS JEWEL

F & M SPRING-SARA LOUISE

JUVENILE-EITHER PULSION OR AIKENITE

JUV TURF-INTERACTIF

WAITING ON PRE ENTRIES FOR OTHERS

Still think Pyro should've been pointed towards the Turf Mile.With his breeding & turn of foot,just think?.Or the Turf Sprint,but he just doesn't take to the synthetics.Watch his races in last years Dirt Mile & Bluegrass.

Zenyatta is unbeatable out here,trust me,..it's obvious she runs to her competition & does enough to get the job done.She has way more than what she's shown this year AND she's fresher.Look for a new track record to be set if she's in the Ladies.MN is a top-quality filly,but...ditto 4 CJ who'll get pressured up-front while setting fast splits,..no-no's on that surface.

The Classic should be tough,but I'll go for a price with Rail Trip.Just think he'll be primed and ready for his best effort yet.He would've won the PClassic last time if he'd had his usual front running style.Chalk that up as a good learning experience.Plus,I'm hoping QR won't take to the surface,therefore less pace pressure for RT.

DODGERS!! BABY!!

I personally know Zensational better than anyone of you here. So i will be willing to bet anyone, any kind of money. He will kick everyones butt.

I think Zensational is a "beat 'em"---I love the way Gayego finished out in The Ancient Title! Ventura is a "play 'em", just a solid filly, I know there are some real tough customers in the F/M Sprint, but her kick is just that good!...Dar Re Mi is a "play 'em! Faced/beat tougher in France!...Goldikova is a "play 'em", one of the finest milers in recent memory!...Zenyatta is a "play 'em, even though I won't, as I have tried beating her six or seven times so why not just burn my moohlah!...Rip Van Winkle? "beat'em", Colonel john and Richards Kid looked real good the other day, and Summer Bird is flat out the best horse!...Regal Ransom?..."beat 'em", one race does not a champ make---and there will be no easy lead at one mile! (Quality Road going?)

I can't wait ! I can't wait ! Down goes Zenyatta down goes Zenyatta.  Save this post it on the Refrigerator post it on the walls post it everywhere.  Music Note will beat Zenyatta and end her paper rule.

Music Note has peaked ?  lol... watch the Beldame AGAIN and enjoy the hand ride all the way home.  I have my Zenyatta shirt already done and it says 13 and 1  I want all the California people to come back here and give me all the excuses why she got WHIPPED.  Music Note and Ventura are the locks of all the races.

Whomever said Ventura will be the shortest price--Zenyatta will be the shortest price---she was very heavily bet last year, and was just 2-5 vs Cocoa Beach, the horse that ran 2nd last year---only Music Note has the kick to contend--if they were serious, Careless Jewell would've been in the Lady's Secret, as pro ride plays a bit tiring--no way will she be able to run away fron Big Z---remember last year, they sent some big guns out here and she just mauled them---I will agree she seems to have lost even more speed outta the gate---but she finishes as good or even better than she did last year--also, she got A LOT outta The Ladys Secret, as she ran very fast into the third 1/4 then finished up strong while in hand---don't let times out here fool you---they crawl on two turn races out here now---Careless Jewell will apply more pace--MUCH MORE---all the more to flatter the kicks of Big Z and Music Note, and I "pity" that poor Godolphin Filly!

HI JASON:

Don't worry you won't have to talk "us Zenyatta fans off a ledge". Bet against her @ your own risk!  lol

I don't bet, so I probably shouldn't put my two cents in, but all I keep reading is how slow Zenyatta is.  But have you guys ever adjusted the dirt Beyer figures to a synthetic/turf equivalent? I have always thought Beyer numbers were low for turf races, and sometime they are ridiculous for synthetics.   All I know is that Ragozin said that the three fastest horses that ran this year were Zenyatta, RA, and QR.  They don't think she is slow or washed up.  I don't even pay attention to Beyer numbers for synthetic or turf because they are SO dependent on a fast pace.  And synthetic and turf races tend to have slower pace during the early part of the race, but they finish faster.  If she wins whichever race she runs, it's great for her.  If she loses, well most horses do.  But Smith isn't afraid of any horse- period.  So I guess we'll see.  She seems like a horse who will go as fast as Smith asks her to go.  But some of you talk about her like she's a plow horse.

As for Magical Fantasy- I love her and loved her last race- low Beyer not withstanding.  I think she stands up to the turf fillies in the East.  It's the Euros who are dangerous as always.

Best 1 1/4 races in US.....

1) Breeders Cup Classic---Top to bottom, the toughest fields in US, year after year....

2) Kentucky Derby---On my all-time greatest top ten list, NINE were derby Winners...

3) Travers Stakes---a who's who of all time greats...

4) Big Cap---Wintering in SoCal/more all-timers

5) Jockey Club Gold Cup---fairly recent change to 1 1/4, bad gate position and all, it has become The (old) Woodward, the most prestigious race for older horses in New York....

.....Summer Bird has won two(Travers, JC Gold), ran in another,(Derby), goes in another (Classic), and hasn't been old enough for the Big Cap----Here's to Summer Bird, the classiest stayer on this side of the pond, and of all the horses that ran this (wonderful) year, he's the horse I'd most want to own.....

Not at all, Jason.  I'm a very happy man.  I'd be even happier if you didn't butcher most of my posts to the point that they lose their meaning.

I'm going with Indian Blessing over Ventura.  I know she doesn't like the synthetics as well, but she's such a fighter, one of my favorite runners.

I won't try beating Zensational!

Or Zenyatta!

I'll take Presious Passion over Conduit and Forever Together over Dar Re Mi.

I really hope Goldikova wins again this year, that is one tough filly!

Einstien all the way in the Classic!  Unless Zenyatta runs, then I'll still root for him, but expect her to win. (:

I think a lot of people are overlooking Summer Bird. I worry that Einstein is not at his best right now and he is a horse I was looking at a few months ago to take this race. If Zenyatta runs in the Classic I think that the extra distance will be to her favor due to her running style. And Jason, what if we Zenyatta fans have to talk you off the ledge after she wins? lol

Jason,

 What are Conduit and the other Euros going to do when they look up and see Presious Passion with a 15 length lead and showing no signs of slowing down? I think the Euros are in for a shock in this race.

 For all you people who are going to bet against Zensational you are seriously barking up the wrong tree.

Dray

Turn your Zenyatta shirt inside out or look in the mirror.....1st by 13.

Footlick

Great point.....Zen ran a 97 Beyer in her last on synthetics and a lot of people want to diss her and say that she is regressing.

Careless Jewel runs a 98 Beyer in the Cotillion on dirt and she is suddenly the NOW horse.

Go figure.

Agree 100% Jason.  Nov. 6th 6pm we will be listening to all the excuses of how she had to go wide losing ground... blah blah blah.  No she will lose because for the first time all year she will face real talent.  Music Note !

The Rock, She wasn't in hand. She thought she was out for a morning gallop. EFFORTLESS right man?

Julie, let's just push the Zenyatta disbelievers OFF the ledge.

If Mike just LETS her do what she wants? She'll win for fun. If she doesn't? Who cares? She's been so impressive that nothing can diminish that.

If we listened to Drays advice we'd have lost our homes, shirts and most of our other clothing.

But the stuff he wants us to put on the fridge? Well based on his record of predictions? We'd have to post his Rorschach (ink spot) tests and results to fill up the space and hide the children from the scary stuff.

NEVER do I, have I or will I hear a real racing fan be so GLEEFULL in hopin a horse loses a race......sick. Like H1N1 sick, not 'sick' in a good way.

Jason get on the Quality road bandwagon there is still time. Remember the days when he romped Dunkirk on a suped up track. QR will take synthetics and romp in 3 weeks cant wait. As far as zensational goes.....one word....GAYEGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shawn P,

Here here!!! How did trevor put it coming to the wire in the Ladies Secret...? With "Condescending Ease"? lol.

Jason, I hope the Phills sweep the dodgers. Can't stand Dodger fans. Will you be coming out for the Cup this year?

Dray,

Zen's already faced Music Note. Did you forget the last year's Distaff? She was the one that finished 3rd and around the far turn, she was the little debris in Zenyatta's path to a perfect season. =)

Draynay

You forgot to mention that on Nov. 6th at 6pm you'll be first in line giving your excuses.....this time I can't wait.....Oh by the way, I guess the connections of Music Note and Ventura might be thinking about scratching now that they know you're touting their horses.

I must admit that this is fun. It is going to be a great two days of racing. Draynay you can stop being so coy -- tell us what you really think!

All kidding aside, since last year I have also felt that Music Note is a great filly. It would not surprise me if she upset the Ladies Classic. However can she win on the plastic track? For her the biggest negative is the horrible  record of Belmont horses when the BC is in Califonia. Same for Summer Bird, as much as I respect what he has done so far.

Regarding the rest, Bob Baffert is going to clean house this year, IMO. Zensational; Looking at Lucky; and Richard's Kid is the parlay.

And having made some cash on Ventura last year I cannot see going against her to make it a double. Those milers seem to do well in the sprints. As good as she is, it will shock me if she is not at least 2-1 with all the other talent in there.

Shawn

That's because our little friend knows something that we have known all along and is afraid to "LITTLE MAN" up and admit it......He probably thinks by dissing Zen he is in some pathetic way protecting Rachel's legacy.

Lazmannick, Zenyatta won't win by 13 because that's not her style, and it is going to be a quality field.  But if she goes in the LADIES CLASSIC...(just kidding)!

Well Jason, If this is the first time you'll be seeing Zenyatta in person, you'll be in for a real treat. The buildup to her races is something else. Brings me back memories of Cigar while he was on his winning streak. The Anticipation, the Tension...if you can't get sucked into it, you're not human. I'll be there for both days as well. I'll know how my Breeders Cup weekend will turn out if Ventura and Informed Decision don't run 1-2 in the FM Sprint.

Zenyatta's times no worry.  She will run as fast as needed.  Smart horse!

You guys all love Zensational that horse will be caught in 3 weeks! Trainers always think they have the best horse. Gayego is older and proven.......LOCK of the day...

I heard Zenyatta will be crossed-entered for the Classic & Ladies.She's a single vs. females and will be closing the fastest if she goes against males.Will it be enough?...we'll see,but I'll put her in my tix for sure.

Jason,..Torre blew-it last night.He should've yanked 'Kid Kershaw' when he couldn't find the strike zone in the 5th.But,they also left way too many men on base.They'll rebound and will route them today,watch...You and Rock will be in for a rude awakening when this is over my man.  :}

   Gladiatorus was a zero at Ascot but maybe he will be a hero in the turf mile-maybe

People don't NEED excuses when their horses run and give their best effort. They just didn't win or make a showing and you try to figure it out and move forward.

Only gamblers who braggarts and blowhards figure they need to make excuses. The rest of the people are fans who are showing their support and appreciation.

Horses who have been running well and say for example, their trainer is high on them? That's because the trainer/owner/jockey sees what they do and how they're progressing. If they DON'T win? It's back to the drawing board and THOSE are the ONLY people who can try to figure out what happens.

If any of these horses don't win? You lose your bet, that doesn't diminish the horses' accomplishments to date.......

If that's the case? Then the losses of EVERY horse diminishes their accomplishments and the ONLY horse who is accomplished? An undefeated one. That's NOT true to people who are in touch with reality.

Laz, THAT is the truth for sure. He's the kiss of death for most horses. Especially those belonging to people he's dissed, or horses he's dissed the connections of in the past.

Jason, Where will you be? Didn't see you last year.. May be flying out on Fri or waiting til Saturday but a bit up in the air still.

Presious Passion does appear to have good final time numbers but i like to play super rich in grass

Conduit ran great last year-i cant believe he lost this year

i dont even know if Godolphin has anything in here-most likely it doesn't matter because top two are solid even inspite of women trainer

I could skip race but i"ll never do that

Zensational

Goldikova

Zenyatta in the Lady's Classic and Jason, you want have to talk me off the ledge LOL. Careless Jewel will not be a cakewalk however.

Summer Bird for the Classic. We have to root for an American horse too you know. I think he will give the Euros a run for their money.

Footlick.  Amen on Beyers.  He looked pretty silly with the 2 page column on Derby day as to Why Pioneer of the Nile was going to lay down on the dirt track.  I bet he wished he could retract that.  I like King Jerry's take (Hollendorfer) with horse like Hysterical Lady.  Take the synthetic Beyer and add 8. Sounds every bit as scientific as Andy.  

I think you pretty smart with Magical Fantasy...love this one.

See you at the windows.

Perhaps both Jason and Dray can wear a dress after Zenyatta wins.  Just a thought...and a rather scary one.  Nevermind.

Old Timer.  Agreed.  They should switch the name from the BC to the BB cup.  Don't leave Indian Blessing out.  

Yes I do believe everything I read.

Music Note: Weaknesses.  "All of her wins have come against very small fields, so she'll have to prove she can navigate the multiple challanges a bigger field presents...While she had defeated older horses in allowance company Music Note has yet to tackle the nations best older fillies and mares.  She has raced exclusively on dirt tracks in New York, primarily around one turn."  

                 Breeder's Cup Bio

Jason we are still smarting from your choice of Ginger Punch over Zenyatta the months leading up to the Breeder's Cup.  

Signed Zenyatta Fans.

Me Gleefull ? Hoping she loses? I know she is going to lose.  There is no doubt in my mind she is going to lose.  I am tired of all these so called experts talking about how wonderful Zenyatta is.  She was very good last year but that was LAST YEAR.  This year she is not the same horse and others look much better.  Anyone with eyes can see Music Note is 5 or 6 lengths better than last year the speed figs don't lie.  Zenyatta has not improved at all so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out she isn't going to win. Lethal Heat wants her again because they know what I know she got stuck behind horses and had to wait or she would have been tough to catch.  And Lethal Heat is no Music Note.  It just seems silly people bragging about her matching what Personal Ensign did.  PE won at Belmont, Saratoga, and Churchill facing the best racing had to offer.  Zenyatta has been running on a plastic track that won't even be around 3 years from now hiding from any real competition.  The owners have every right to run her in California and enjoy her out there it's their horse.  But don't pretend for one second that she is anything more than a poly specialist who had ducked real competition all year long.

Draynay, it's poor handicapping to take a strange dislike to any horse and especially an undefeated one running in her own backyard.   I'm sure many people "dislike" certain horses from a handicapping standpoint, but disliking a horse to the point of making negative t-shirts and chanting "down goes Zenyatta" indicates your judgment is very clouded.  It's a horse race not a high school football rivalry.  

So take a deep breath and try to handicap the races with an analytical eye.  Even if Zenyatta loses, there's absolutely nothing in her pp's to indicate she's likely to get "whipped".  

BTW, I'm not from California or the west coast.          

goldikova was the best of the all cup last year,and ventura won in 1:19 sec and seems to be in better shape,both should repeat.i also like zensational and interactif.no filly can beat zennyatta in the ladies classic ,has home adventage (cold exacta with music note 3rd last year).and i think europeans will dominate in turf races and the classic(da re mi,conduit,rip wankle)f ym turf , turf and classic.americans with best chances ,forever togheter,quality road if handles the track ,he loves nice weather and fast tracks

LAZMANNICK

You and I are on the same page regarding Zenyatta. RECHELLE almost always slams Zen and connections. Interested to see her "spin" after the race.

GHOSTZAPPER

It's obvious you lack respect. Being a jerk must come easy for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Baffert rates Zensational very highly but he's gonna have to be as good as Midnight Lute was last year to beat Fatal Bullet (my firm choice) in the Sprint.  It should also be noted that at sprint distances the championship class older horses usually are too tough for the 3YOs therefore Gayego is also in with a very good shot.  

I would love to see Zenyatta compete in the Distaff (so called Lady's Classic) because there she would run into Rachel Alexandra's deputy, that is Careless Jewel.  The latter is my firm fancy to be one of the "soups" of the Breeder's Cup menu.  We have not yet seen the best of this flying filly so stay tuned.  

On current form Zenyatta doesn't appear to have a realistic chance in the Classic and her presence in the distaff would make it one of the highlight races of the Championship because this year we have a very very formidable line up of top calibre fillies and mares.

Other firm selections are Quality Road in the Classic, D'Funnybone in the Juvenile, Informed Decision in the F & M sprint, Conduit in the Turf Classic, Goldikova in the Mile, Interactif in the Juvenile Turf and Pure clan in the F & M Turf.

To be honest people talking about Zenyatta running in the Classic reminds me earlier this year when I had to listen to people talk about Friesan Fire as a top Derby contender. It just makes no sense. How can you watch her last two races and think she can take on the best males in the world.  She is going to have a hard enough time in the Distaff but any talk of her running in the Classic is just plain silly.

Dray- Lethal Heat's trainer said he will not run her in the Ladies if Zenyatta runs.  HE said she's unbeatable.  You need to read his quote before spouting that he wants to run against her again.  And everyone was chanting Music Note last year too.  Big deal.  She's a nice horse but her figures are not world beating.  Sorry

Draynay, You have a mind? Now there's a newsflash.

You KNOW she's going to lose? Hmmm the CHRB may want to speak with you and investigate any illegalities. Since you have no connection to racing, you planning on running out on the track ala the drunk at Pimlico before the 99 Preakness? But.... you talk the talk but never go to the big races you talk about so once again, all talk all the time.

As for Beyers and times that you constantly quote? Seems like I recall about a year and a half ago, you telling someone that you can't compare times on different tracks let alone different surfaces.

Whether she gets beat or not? Who cares? She's set records that not even your newest fave can match.

When she retires? Jerry and Ann will just reload with some more and hope to reach the same heights.

The naysayers like you are way outnumbered by those who love the mare.

A mare who has done more than anything YOU'VE ever had. Oh wait....

Bigtime turf racing at Woodbine tom!.....am taking Little Nick, at 12-1, in the Nearctic! LOVE the Bejarano upgrade, off a real fine finish at Phily--think that was a strong race/will include Chamberlain Bridge with GoGo up....in a rock solid E P Taylor, love the 8-1 on GoGo/Frankel on lightly raced Treat Gently---major upside, and there are some real tough gals in here so you'll get the price.....also love GoGo/Bobby in Canadian International, with Champs Elysees, but will include the classy Jukebox Jury, as Euros love a course like Woodbine! Come to think of it, so do I!

JZ great that you personally know Zensational---I mean that---if he draws inside he'll be hooked the entire race--very hard to hold off Gayego! What you, me, NOBODY knows is this: hooked by the fastest horses in the country/having to fend off Gayego and his kick, over a track that rewards horses with big kicks....that's "no mans land"....we'll see if Zensational is that kind--a wire to wire win would rank him right up there, I mean what a year! But whether he can do it or not, nobody yet knows....

Well Shawn P that is one thing I can't argue with.  I was suppose to be at a few race openings this year but the H1N1 Flu has left me and my children handsanitizer in great demand.  I am going back to Vegas tomorrow for the NACS Show and all the travel around the country has left racing on the back burner until Xmas.  The good news is I will make Gulfstream next year and the Derby! Anyone with 4 tickets in the Turf Club?

Footlick I have no idea what you are talking about. Barry plans on beating Zenyatta and running the following DAY. Why ? Because he knows his horse won't have to run all out to beat Zenyatta and will have something left for the turf sprint.  Funny I have never heard a trainer say he was going to run the next day after facing Rachel Alexandra.

I think some of you need to look at what Music Note did to Informed Decision and Indian Blessing 2 months back and watch the Beldame again.  The form she is bringing into the Distaff clearly makes her the one to beat.

He said he was pointing to the Ladies unless Zenyatta runs.  You read his quote

Zen yatta yatta doo will not run against the boys in the Classic period.Owner wants a  undefeated year and career so has  always have avoided the boys for that reason, no way he wants to take on the boys at that distance. No HOY for her even if she wins the Lady's Classic, avoiding the boys and the toughest comp.and a mile and a quarter doesn't sound like  the best horse in America.Same goes for RA, her owner knows she is great at 9 furlongs but beyond that forgetabout it, they ducked any mile and a quarter races for that reason.It'll be a popularity contest for HOY between 2 fillies how phony , neither ran against the best comp at the Classic distance of a mile and a quarter but i give RA credit for at least beating the boys although the comp and distance were not the best.

"To be honest people talking about Zenyatta running in the Classic reminds me earlier this year when I had to listen to people talk about Friesan Fire as a top Derby contender. It just makes no sense.   She is going to have a hard enough time in the Distaff but any talk of her running in the Classic is just plain silly.

Draynay 16 Oct 2009 9:08 PM"

To be 'honest' how honest is a snake oil salesman?

Hmm, now 'plain silly' statements, outrageous predictions and general bufoonery? That is YOUR specialty.

If I were to list all the ridiculous picks and statements you've made? They'd fill up 50 blogs, take up all the bandwidth and permanently crash this site.

Talk about excuses? YOU are the KING of excuses.

Jason, Philly almost got em. Think they'll come back just like they did against the Rockies.

www.cleveland.com/.../index.ssf

Finally, Mr. Ness is getting some press he richly deserves.  Jamie has been lighting the win circle up in Ohio and continues to prove he has something special.  I hope an owner looks at his results over the last few years and gives him a chance with a promising 2 year old.

Draynay,

It doesn't matter what Zenyatta does, win or lose, it in no way makes your beloved Rachel any better or any worse.

I agree with Ranagulzion that Careless Jewel is the only one capable of beating Zenyatta. But my gut says Zenyatta wins. I don't think Music Note has a chance against Zenyatta. She has improved, I agree. But not quite up to Zen yet.

“Don’t get me wrong, Zenyatta is one of the top 10 fillies of all time in my book, but she’s never beaten the boys, so it won’t make any difference to me if she runs in the Classic or not,” Woolley said. “If she were to win, she could retire 14 and 0. But even if she wins the Breeders’ Cup Classic, she’s not going to beat Rachel Alexandra for Horse of the Year. She has nothing to gain by taking a chance of getting beat, either.

Even Chip isn't worried about Zenyatta and this is from a trainer who has won 6 races ALL YEAR.  Don't worry Chip Zenyatta has the same chance of running in the Classic as you do winning it.

I'm still liking the Euros in the Classic with or without Zenyatta.  I don't see Summer Bird taking that race, who's recent history suggests has the best chance for a US horse.  

Great battle by Etched in the Meadowlands Cup last night.....1-1/8M in the slop in 1:45.4....He's now 5 for 6 and they are talking about the possibility of sending him to the BC......If he continues on we could see an anomaly.....a five year old HORSE racing at five.

Just heard Barry Abrahms wants to run Lethal Heat Fri AND Sat--that's no joke! Actually this has been done (Dutrow won a stakes on a 2nd day starter) and I have seen this many times in my years in Oregon, at the Tillamook Fair (the great Tillamook Fair, with the guy putting odds up on an old blue truck, and every ticket was a three dollar ticket and there was no form and jocks were 25 lbs overweight! LOVED it anyway, worth every bit of the long windy 2 hr ride over! But there IS a caveat--Abrahms will only do it if he can get a prep for her, say the Tuesday before the Cup!!! THAT'S a joke, actually, but if you look at her record, Lethal Heat is a top class filly, capable of placing in Distaff---capable of placing in the downhill turf sprint (one of the greatest courses in the world, the Santa Anita Downhill!!) Anyone notice Gotta Have Her, now 4 for 4 on the downhill--maybe they should try her in there as well...Sahadi has done a real good job with her and now she's become a classy pro.....

Wow! Just saw a replay of Jackson Bend's start in the FL Stallion In Reality Stakes. Goes to his knees recovers quickly enough to make up four lengths to be fourth going into the first turn, sits off the pace, turns back Thank U Phellipe and wins impressivley. Colt is looking good.

Zenyatta not bating boys only means something if she actually raced against them.....To date she hasn't faced them.....Now if she did, and got beat then that would be a different matter....I personally think that she could go up against all but a few males in the US in a route on dirt and win, no problem.....and I'm talking about true G-1 older males (those with more than one legitimate G-1 win to their credit), not pretenders.

Jackson Bend - that was impressive.

I don't think Zenyatta runs in the classic either. ITA, they want a 14-0 season.

Summer Bird's recent work isn't too promising either. I am thinking he may not be loving this surface. Probably a Euro year again. Let's hope they never run another Breeder's series on this synthetic junk.

No filly, with the possible exception of one Rachel Alexander, beats Zenyatta at 1 1/8 at Santa Anita--and I do mean possible exception, as the field will have much more speed--something Big Z has NOT had this year, her races have been void of pace, she's been void of early speed, that's a freakishly big kick she uncoils! So, in a nutshell, she's a "play'em"---if they try the Classic, Zenyatta's a "beat'em", several posts have alluded to the 1 1/4 distance, thinking that would be right up her alley, Mike Smith seems to agree---I do not! She may GET the 1 1/4 and win The Classic, but I can tell you this: deep closers are one run horses, there's no telling how long they can keep up that kick---as races get longer, they are won more often by close to the pace types---maybe pro ride plays like turf, complimenting her kick, which is a thing of racing beauty---she would need that edge because no matter what kind of surface they run on, and to her credit she's won on three completely different synthetic surfaces, what ultimately comes to question is can she get the distance---We KNOW Summer Bird, and Colonel John, and Richards Kid, and Einstein, and Mine That Bird all CAN, and in big time races! We also know Zenyatta hasn't gone the distance, for that reason alone she's a "beat'em" in Classic----they CAN'T win HOY, she's undefeated, and, most of all, Music Note, Cocoa Beach, Careless Jewell AND others will insure that this grand mare gets tested in her final dance.....

Nice to see Bobby and his Champs got the $$ at Woodbine---I loved that horse, thought he ran lights out in The Big Cap/shouldda won it---he took a real good Euro horse yesterday, and he ran him down---is that all there is/or am I putting him on top of my Classic tri??!! I think he contends in both Classic and Turf Classic---think the Euro stayers are weak this year--love Goldikova and Dar Re Mi but would love to get Champs  on top in the Cup.....

as far as "what if" goes, if sea The Stars were in the Classic, I truly think that horse would've won easy--his one year on the track was as good as any! Consider him a "play'em" if they had not been so afraid....

I think Colonel John has a big chance---he'll sit the trip/get first run....

THE PHANTOM

So,you know for a fact Zenyatta isn't running against the boys? You must have a direct line to Jerry Moss! lol

JASON

Watchmaker isn't picking Zenyatta,makes it all the better. Wouldn't want him to jinx her.

Hmmm some of the play'em I will have to agree with and wait up until BC Day to pick some 6-1 or longer odds to throw in with these faves.  

Since I will be playing on saturday

I think that my playems are

sprint:zensational

mile:goldikova

J turf: Interactif

The rest can have be played against. I am hoping that both mine that birs and zenyatta both go to the classic because so much dead money will be placed on both horses. I think the classic can play off big as well as dirt mile. What do you think jason

must of hit enter, oh well, as I was saying, IMO the only single is Zensational. On Filly Friday, the single is Dar Re MI. Other that that, beat em all. I still am picking Mastercraftman for the classic

Zenyatta should go in the Classic and if she wins is HOY.

There is far more talent in the Classic than RA has faced anywhere. If Zenyatta would win she would have beaten the best RA has faced Summer Bird, Macho Again who RA beat by a mere whisker, and Mine That Bird who RA beat by a mere length. There are 2 or 3 Europeans at least as good as Summer Bird likely to run and all are far better than Mine That Bird or Macho Again. RA accomplished a tremendous amount but no question her campaign was orchestrated to stay away from Zenyatta and the best of the rest. All that being said if Zenyatta goes in the Classic I'm betting against her and if RA was there I'd bet her off the board.

A Filly who wins the Classic and remains undefeated against the type of field being assembled this year is HOY no matter what or how many races RA wins against much lesser. Is there any major race for older horses (races restricted to 3 yr olds are not in the same class)in America that a Filly has never won outside of the Classic? She wins that and it trumps all of RA's wins against 3 yr olds and her one win by a whisker over older given an 8# weight allowance(Macho Again and remember she only beat Bullsbay by 3 in that one and he's no Classic contender). The Classic is the biggest and toughest race of the year. Where else could you have a horse finish 4th in his last race of the year and still deservedly so win HOY?

You know Draynay, Chip Woolley has been a nice guy for racing, what with giving away the Derby Roses, a nice word for and/or about every person or horse he faces, nice things to say about every track he's trained on, good to reporters and the general public, he's got a nice little horse that will be around for awhile and should only get better with age...

What do you have against the little guy who finally gets one nice horse....?? For goodness sake.

Mike R, don't need a line to Moss he's had 2 years to go against the boys but no he runs against the same fillies and last time at the same weights , what a joke.The boys in the Classic would be too much for her and he wants a undefeated filly.Same goes for RA another who the owner kept away from the best horses because of  her limited distance of 9 furlongs.No way Zen yatta yatta doo goes against the boys unless the majority of the field scratches.Both  of the filly owners are scared to run against a stellar field like they'll have in the Classic.So one will go against the same old fillies while the other ducks the tough comp because the owner who's Curlin got "Dusted" on poly and his ego can't take another loss like that.You watch mike she'll stick with the ladies that's why he is hedging , he knows he is afraid to run in the REAL Classic .As far as i'm concerned both of these fillies are phony candidates for HOY Unless   Zen takes on the boys and puts in a great race.As for the other let  her stay on vacation who cares .Win it on the track against the best not thru a popularity contest.It was so obvious that a nobody special Macho would have beaten her if the distance was any longer.I guess the winner of the Alabama -Fl can claim the national championship and forget about playing in the BCS championship game following Jesse's theory, quit while your ahead avoid the test of a champion winning on any surface at a mile and a quarter!

I dont get why no love for Quality Road this horse is talented. Hasnt raced on a dry track yet and when he does run on a dry track he smashed records. Forget the Euros cheer for the only american horse that has a chance in the classic which is QUALITY ROAD and take it to the bank!

schabelli,

    You say RA's campaign has been well thought out to stay away from Zen, well one could argue, and with a good point say that Zen has had a well thought out season void of any real competition at all. Who has she faced other than an unready or over the hill CB and a tired LIS? Allicansayiswow, Leathal Heat? All decent horses but world beaters or better than even MA or MTB, no way at all. Zen with a season as easy as this should be ready to WIN the Classic if entered. Even if she does I wouldn't give it to her. You can't say that she face our best when you have no idea if SB or QR hated the surface when they run? MTB improve his last try over Pro Ride, but still his number proved he likes dirt better. Macho Again hates synthetics as well. What if the Euros that come over run over the surface like the Duke did last year. He was a top Euro and TANKED on the surface. The race like every other has been is in her own back yard and her season has been an EASY one. She loves the surface, she's at home, she should be sharp, and the competition she'll be facing is suspect on that surface. Why should a win in a race that sets up for her in every way possible, be more impressive than when in each of Rachel's wins against colts she was pushed by numerous challengers a every point in the race? Nothing has set up right for her in anything. In the Preakness she was pushed by a RECORD SETTING sprinter for the first six furlongs then has to hold off all closers in her first race against colts in the longest race she had ever run. In the Haskell she was pushed again by BOTH Munnings and Summer Bird, who has proven to be better when racing closer to the pace than closing. In the Woodward the pace she was forced to do more than made up for the eight pounds she received. Being pushed by PTP and Da Tara both very fast horses is no easy task. Then to fend off a challenging Bulls Bay, and then to hold off Macho Again, a stone cold closer, who had the pace set up perfectly for him. Let me ask you where PTP and Da Tara, the speed horses other than Rachel finished. Way way waaaaaaayyyyyyyy up the track. In NONE of her races against colts has she had a perfect easy trip, and in each one the trip she gets more than makes up for any wieght she gets. History has been made in EVERY race she has entered this year. How many times has Zenyatta done that this year, once. Rachel has DWARFED anything ANY horse can do this year.

Paula Higgins, it takes Summer Bird some time to get used to the track.  Wait till the second and third work before we will know he can handle it.  Remember Belmont?

Chip Woolley needs to listen to his jockey.  Calvin said MTB needs to get to a different surface. Now he has outfitted him with "stickers" or cleats on his back shoes.  The Classic looks wide open.  How many chances do we give Col John, Tiago, Parading, Rail Trip? etc. etc. This division is very weak which is why we are fighting over which girl gets HOY.  

Summer Bird peaking? Watch out! If it stays like this/everybody stays healthy---The Classic looks like the toughest race  in a long time--at least a year, cuz The Classic is the greatest race in North American Thoroughbred history!

I'm dissapointed that there is no Smooth Air in any of the races to bet against. I guess his owners finally figured out he's not a G1 caliber animal.

I am surprised hoe people are ignoring Cavalryman. He won a group one at longchamp in august.He came back and ran a close third in the arc, ahead of Conduit, fame and glory and Da re mi.Schiaprelli is another Godolphin horse that no one is talking about. He has been as consistent as a horse can be.He won a group one in Italy on saturday going mile and a half.Remember Gladiatorous,He was considered as a best miler in the world on the basis of his huge racesin Dubai earlier this year.He ran a dissapointing race as a heavy favourite at Ascot in August but he returnrd to his winning form by winning a group one in Italy last week.Although Godolphin is not bringing their best two year old which is also said to be their Derby horse Al Zir but they still have Zeitopper who is perfect in his three starts so far includind a group three win at longchamp last week.

LDP,So RA is so great , well first of all Sea the Stars ran in tougher races all grade 1's and won at distances up to a mile and a half, ok he's from Europe but to say no horse has done what RA is a joke.She ran 3 times against the boys but never at a mile and a quarter, they ducked the Belmont, Travers and Jockey all longer distances and better comp , while Summer B ran and won all 3 and they were grade 1's!She ran against a bunch of filly stiffs including that big race she won by what 20 lengths?She is a great horse up to 9 furlongs period anything beyond or against the best horses would be a failure Jesse knows that and anyone who knows anything about horse racing knows that's true.Finally ducking the Breeders cup because she's tired or the surface is bs, his ego made sure of that.She had 3 tough races all year , all shorter then a mile and a quarter , yes she beat Summer Bird but avoided him after 1 race at longer distances, and he's a improving maturing colt[i'm not saying he is Hoy but stating facts] what would a classic do for him as a HOY candidate against the best competition?.As for Zen yatta yatta doo, well no one has answered why she is supposely  so great ,has never run against the boys in Cal on her favorite surface, she has had 2 years to do it yet the owner avoids the best comp.If she runs and wins the real Classic or puts in a great race i believe she would be a strong candidate for Hoy but they won't run her against the boys just the same fillies to stay and probably retire unbeaten.All you die hard RA, Zen fans know the truth they avoided the distances and the best comp.Hoy of the year for either of these would be a popularity contest and a joke.Championships are won on the track against the best comp regardless of the surface case closed anything else is PHONY!

At Least the good trainers at Sanita anita know what shoes to put on their horses.

that"s one of reasons why it best to bet each local based horse in breeders cup

Can we throw out any horse who raced at Keenland spring and fall meeting for the win end only-that would make things alot easier

I hate duckers. RA reminds me of Big Brown last year who they were afraid to bring to SA so they blamed it on his feet. Duckers don't deserve to win HOY. The Classic will be full of horses much better than RA has beaten and will include the best she has faced. Should Zenyatta go in the race and take them all down she's HOY. She's not ducking the best field assembled all year if she goes. She's meeting them straight up. I'm tired of the Zenyatta'a only a west coast horse crap. RA's an east coast only horse in my book. She's only raced this year on the right hand side of the map. Champions race on Championship Day and that's the Breeders Cup where it's the biggest day in racing every year. No RA and a win in the Classic gives Zenyatta HOY. Will it happen? Only time will tell.

Jason;

Subject: Breeder's Cup Challenge.

Beginning date 10-28, after the pre-entries are out,then 11-2 for the

last day to submitt you're choices.

choose 3 horses for each B.C. race.

Scoring: win only,place only,show only for each horse chosen.

Based off of point system,10 pts. for win, 7 pts. for place, 5 pts. for show.,or it could be done the

same using the parimutal payoffs for win only, place only, show only. (No Caps.)

Any horses that are entered in more

than one race can be used in both races if they want to.

I'll watch Col John in the paddock.  If the assistant trainer shoots cooking spray on his shoes I'll bet him.

Jason;

Out of Breeder's Cup Rail Trip (foot bruise).

Gitano Hernando (skipping the B.C)

JOE SCHMOE

Are you joking? BB HAD AN CAREER ENDING INJURY LAST YEAR! What planet are you on? He was lucky to win the races he did with a  history of bad feetfor his entire career. As for RA I totally respect her connections to skip the Breeders. Don't you think she's done enough this year? She deserves HOY. As for Zenyatta,her connections did what they wanted and don't care period what you or anyone else thinks. They don't sweat it! I totally support their decisions.

Precious passion has no chance. Their is absolutely no way he can go wire to wire against the best turf horses in the world.He may have won in that fashion at monmouth and at sant anita but he finished last in the Arlington million  when came across Sligthtly tougher competition.With horses like Cavalryman, Conduit, Da re Mi, Fame and Glory, Spanish Moon all of whom have been running Against best horse in the world, Sea the stars, he has no chance.Trust be he is not gonna open upa 10 length lead by going 22 and change with that kind of field.

THE PHANTOM

Regarding RA and Zenyatta you display little knowledge. Case and point,RA DID NOT HAVE AN EASY YR. as you indicated. I support her connections for bypassing next month. Your priority is running your mouth by slamming horses all the time!

BB had an ugly quarter---COULDDA raced again! C'mon, he rerired, thats all, end copy---he couldda/shouldda raced at four cuz he did NOT do it long enough for my tastes....what Phantom means is this: HOY is for the BEST at 1 1/4---ONLY if there's no big horse at 1 1/4 do you give it to ANY OTHER---this is Thoroughbred racing--- 1 1/4 is the classic distance--case closed!

Arman,

    The track in the Arlington Million was like a freaking spounge! PP hates anything less than good, and that track was about as wet as a turf track can be before it is taken off the turf. If you actually paid attention you'd notice on fast firm track he runs his best, and when that happens it is extremely hard to get by him, that is why he romped in his last two over firm tracks, where he set a course record in one mind you. SA is a very, VERY fast track, and the fact that it has a downhill stretch makes it more likely to help horses run a bit farther than they normally would. PP loves the track, he's won at 11 furlongs this year, and with the help of SA he could hang on that extra furlong. The fact that you discount him off his one bad race, where he had an excuse amazes me.

Dray I'll bet ya Life Is Sweet beats Music Note in the 1 1/8, two turn Ladies Classic---LIS LOVES the track! Was coming strong late in Lady's Secret---this is a real nice horse, with a good kick--it's all about the kick on pro-ride....we already know Music Note can't outkick Big Z....is she better??..Cuz she was real good last year but got posterized by Zenyatta....I'm sayin she's good, but she gets 3rd again, or 2nd, to Life Is Sweet, cuz she can't outkick her, either....

Bet against Regal Ransom. It's a wide open race, I expect an upset.

Zenyatta is HOY if she wins the Classic. No Filly has ever won the biggest and toughest race of the year. Summer Bird is HOY if he wins the Classic. He's much better now than when he was beat by RA and he's not ducking better like she is. RA get penalized for not racing on Championship Day. Outside of SB, MTB, and Macho Again she's really not beaten much. All 3 are in the Classic plus the Euoropeans who are better than any of the rest she faced buy a mile.

I see alot of HOY talk. In my opinion If Zenyatta wins the Breeders Cup Classic she should win HOY. Rachael Alexandra had a great 6-7 months but will not have beaten as good of horses. I have no problem with Zenyatta's connections pointing her to the Breeders Cup all year and keeping her in California where it is held. It shows me that if they run her in the Classic they will have had the courage and confidence to race her against the best they could. can't say that for RA. Her connections want no part of Zenyatta and the rest at the Breeders Cup.

I say give RA First Half HOY and if Zenyatta remains undefeated at the Breeders Cup give her Second Half HOY. Both horses will have run only 6-7 months of the year so why not split the award to reflect 1/2 a years worth of effort.

Darn Yankees.  RA's connections know she would loose to Zenyatta on that track.  Then what happens to the HOY that she has already been given?  Call it a synthetic bias.  It is what it is.  Tiago out finishing Curlin was enough for the connections.

Life is Sweet looked pretty good rallying against older males like Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup.  This means she's good right?  After all this is the test (males at a classic distance) of a champion?  

Slyder,

    Why should RA have to split top honors with a horse that raced half as many times as she did, over roughly the same amount of time. Eight races in roughly 29 weeks averages out to 3.63. Basiclly she had a race a little over every three and a half weeks. Rachel also had three grade ones against males, one was within two weeks of her twenty length demolishion in the Oaks. Then after the Haskell she jumps on in and goes against older males, in a race FEMALE has ever won. Zenyatta has raced four times, compared to Rachel's eight, and none have been adventurous, all in her own division, all on synthetics in Cali. Zenyatta's average race is once ever 5.39 weeks, so a little bit under five and a half weeks. Rachel has five consectutive Grade ones this year three over males, racing over mud and dirt, over seven different tracks in six states. Zenyatta will have a max of five races and four graded ones by the time the year is out, and most likely all of her wins will be against fillies. She has run over only synthetics, on three tracks and in one state. She, unless beaten in the Ladies Classic, is a shoe in for older female, but a split HOTY award should not be done, when Rachel's resume holds so much more weight.

Arman you are right, I believe--PP got away with a slow (downhill) first 1/2 and there's no way he will get the 1 1/2 vs better--NO WAY! Just like there's no way Gio Ponti gets the 1 1/2, either! Europe's gonna clean house on the grass!

Each synthetic surface in Cal is totally different from each other.  So SA, HOL and DM are three totally different tracks- they are not the same synthetic track.  The fact that Zenyatta just goes and wins on three different surfaces says alot.  Just because you run well on one synthetic doesn't mean you run well on the others.  I'm sorry you want to diminish what she does because she runs on synthetic tracks, but they aren't the same, they don't react the same, they don't play the same and Beyer doesn't know how to make accurate figures for them, nor does he for turf.

I happen to like three horses tom at Santa Anita...race #4--normally I wouldn't play a Cal-Bred first time turfer vs horses bred in GB, France, Kentucky, but Young Joe #3 (10-1) is lone speed, will get an easy 1/2 and look out (if he turfs)...race #7 I like Talamo again, #4 Onefunsonofagun (5/2)....race #8 I LOVE #9 Dislitleliteomine (12-1) and bombs away!  

      I don't see why people are still debating the HOY honors.  I guess its makes for good banter back and forth, but, It has been decided the moment Rachel won the Woodward.  Both Rachel and Zenyatta are Champions in their own right, They will both be in the Hall of Fame down the road.  I know I am in the minority, But, I still think Mr. Moss will put Zenyatta in the Classic against the boys.  I will go a step farther and say she will win the Classic.  With that said, If it comes to fruition and she does win, Rachel will still get HOY despite Zenyatta winning the Classic.  It is a mute point to argue the point(IMO), But it still makes for an interesting argument, I guess ???

Precious Passion will get all the lead it wants and nobody can do anything about it-most likly the one to beat

no more silly talk

GREG J

You aren't in the minority I agree with you.

Mike Relva,

As wrong as I believe Mr. Schmoe to be in his statement you are just as wrong. Now I won't go belittling you like you did him but I think you should be less draynay like in your responses to others.

This was your response to Mr. Schmoe,

JOE SCHMOE

Are you joking? BB HAD AN CAREER ENDING INJURY LAST YEAR! What planet are you on?

This is from the website of Regarding Horses prior to last years breeders Cup:

"Big Brown’s injury could take at least two months to heal, making it impossible for him to run in the Breeders’ Cup Classic on Oct. 25 at Santa Anita."

As you can see it was NOT a career ending injury, he could have raced again. For an injury to be career ending it has to be one that prevents you from competing again and the sole reason for retirement. His connections just decided to call it quits at that point and get him to the breeding shed where his value to them was so much more. It was a career ending decision not injury.