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Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

This will be my final thoughts on racing's hottest current debate--Horse of the Year. After this, I'll let everyone else continue to drill on a subject that surely will not go away any time soon.

First of all, let me say that I am not in favor of having a separate "both" option on the Horse of the Year ballot. I say let the writers vote for whoever they feel is the best candidate. Like with any election or vote--whether it is the Hall of Fame, a political candidate, an all-star game, or in this case, Horse of the Year--the winner will be happy and the loser will be angry. That's the nature of a democratic process. I see no reason to change that now just because a few people believe it is the politically correct thing to do.

I also want to get this out of the way. If I vote this year, it will be for Rachel Alexandra. I'm sure I'll piss off the Zenyatta fans out there with this proclamation, but that is how I feel. I have absolutely nothing against Zenyatta (remember, I voted for her over Curlin last year). She had a phenomenal season and what she did in the Breeders' Cup Classic will be remembered forever. I give Jerry Moss a lot of credit for putting her in that race. He stepped up to the challenge and gave the Breeders' Cup a shot of excitement that it desperately needed. She is undoubtedly one of the best mares of all time.

I won't go into the accomplishments of each horse; they are well documented and we have covered them in earlier blogs. We could go back and forth until eternity while debating who is the better horse. Fact is, we will never know (more on that later). Simply put, I believe Rachel Alexandra had the more complete season, mainly for the fact that she raced at seven different tracks over a seven-month period and beat males three times. For Zenyatta to get my vote, she needed to race outside of California and for more than 5 1/2 months. It has nothing to do with whether she raced over synthetics or dirt, but she needed to race outside of the state in a campaign that began earlier than May 23. Again, the Classic was phenomenal, but it wasn't enough for me. As important as the World Championships are, they do not always have to decide year end honors--not in this day and age.

Now that I have put myself out there with my selection, let me get to the main point of this blog--the fervor and heated debate that Horse of the Year has caused. More than the actual vote itself, I am amazed how much people actually care about who wins the award. I want to know one thing--why?

If you've read the comments on this or any other blog, you must know by now that people have become obsessed and downright crazed about this thing. I don't get it. Of course, I understand that we all want to see out favorite player, candidate, or in this case, horse, receive honors. It's human nature. That I can comprehend. But when it comes right down to it folks, these are horses. Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra won't have any clue whether or not they will win HOY. As long as they get their carrots, oats, and hay they will be thrilled. So why do you care so much?

Really, the only ones who benefit from HOY honors are the connections of each horse. Sure, it would be nice for them to win, but I don't even think they care as much as the people who are campaigning for them. I'm pretty sure that Jerry Moss and John Shirreffs, and Jess Jackson and Steve Asmussen, will be Ok if their horse doesn't win. They will live to race another day.

I'll tell you, it's downright nuts some of the emails I have gotten from people trying to make a case for their horse or to change my mind. Passion is one thing, but the profanity-laced and certifiably crazy emails are another. In one, somebody actually wrote a dialogue between "Jason's Brain" and Jason's Heart," attempting to pose an analogy of why my brain says Zenyatta should win, but my heart is making me vote for Rachel. I swear. I am not making this stuff up.

Anyway, here is the real thing I want to say about this whole HOY debate, and I really do mean this: It is a crying shame that this thing could not be decided on the racetrack. Here we have, by all accounts, two of the best female horses of all time racing during the same year and yet they never faced one another. Think about that. In my opinion, both parties are to blame for this. I won't get into the reasons, but to think that the final six months of 2009 went by with this debate burning the whole time, yet the powers that be could not find a way to make it happen, it is pretty sad.

In a nutshell, I believe this is one of the major problems that racing has today. Instead of letting millions of people watch for themselves on TV and having the sport grow naturally, we are reduced to debating about Horse of the Year on a computer screen. Before you start calling people " great sportsmen," remember that.

My dad, who is admittedly not a big racing fan, called me right after the Breeders' Cup and said something to the effect of: "I don't really care that much about horse racing, but if Rachel and Zenyatta ever met I would stop what I'm doing to watch that race. It would be amazing. Tell me again why they will never meet?"

I had to tell dad all about egos, synthetics surfaces, and the whole sordid story. But in the end, I was able to tell him that we would have a paper champion in January when Horse of the Year is announced. To which he responded:

"Who cares?"

 

 

505 Comments:

Well put Jason. It's funny that you mention the horses don't care because I was just going to post that on Steve Haskins blog. I'm glad the horses could give a hoot. It's nice to know they will never read the ugly things said about them and slip into drug abuse and  end up in rehab because of it. Thank God for the simplicity of horses. You couldn't ask for a more genuine soul. I for one could care less who gets HOY. They both have brought so much happiness to my life this year. I have loved every moment and will continue to love every moment forever. Just like I re-live all the great moments from Secretariat, Dr. Fager, Damascus, The Bid etc.....These ladies have made history. You tube will be busy for years to come.

Karen2 18 Nov 2009 3:53 PM

Rachel Alexandra will receive Horse of the Year" next year, but this year belongs to the greatest racemare of all-time "Zenyatta".

Note:

The greatest racefilly of all-time was Ruffian.

Zenyatta went 7-0 last year and didn't receive the HOY hardware. Zenyatta left the state and went to Oaklawn Park last year and took on the best (Ginger Punch - 2007 Breeders Cup Distaff Champion). She destroyed that field.

In fact that 2008 Apple Blossom field was so good that every horse in that race came back and won their very next start.

Why would Jerry and Ann Moss leave the state of California this year (when the HOY vote for Curlin was a landslide last year). This sent a message to the Zenyatta connections. The message was sent "loud and clear" and  told them that it doesn't pay to leave the state of California and prove yourself.

Meanwhile, Curlin finishes 4th in the Breeders Cup Classic and becomes the "All-Time Earnings Leader". Curlin is later rewarded "Horse of the Year".

Zenyatta went undefeated again this year. She took this year's "Breeders Cup Ladies classic winner "Life is Sweet" out behind the woodshed (multiple times). She becomes the "All-Time Earnings Leader" for a filly/mare after powering home in the "Breeders Cup Classic"

Zenyatta is "Horse of the Year".

Understood?

Assault 18 Nov 2009 4:03 PM

Blame, yea perhaps like 75% the phony jesse and the balance with the conection of Zen.Zen according to connections was always pointed toward running in either Classic.The phony Jesse I believe ultimately did the biggest duck when he could have put it all on the line.He chose to quit after her 3 wins against the males and figured she had HOTY wrappped up and didn't want to face Zen on the pro ride. The BC Classic distance would have been to  much for her along with the comp she would have faced more formidable then anything in the past races. His ego about hating the track because of the  miserable failure of Curlin  last year had a lot to do with it.Sure Zen could have gone east to meet up somewhere against RA that is a fact and why only owner and trainer can answer.Ashame but it didn't happen the last chance was up to Jesse he sent her on vacation and didn't support the BC, cheated his horse out of a chance to make history and run against her biggest rival for HOTY and win the Classic.That's why I think he's such a PHONY!

The Phantom 18 Nov 2009 4:04 PM

Why chase a 3 year old filly east when you are trying to win the Breeder's Cup Classic in California?  I seriously doubt Rachel Alexandra would have won the Ladies Classic this year, much less the Big Classic. It was smart to duck the world's best. Zenyatta is on another plane, that of undefeated 2 time Breeders' Cup Champion.  

However, I don't care what some group of voters say about it because I know my opinion and I saw the biggest race in North America a week and a half ago.  If Rachel races 2 more years and wins 2 monster Breeders' Cup races against the world's best, maybe I'll change my opnion of her.  

wilson 18 Nov 2009 4:10 PM

Well said Jason.

they're both amazing. its just that simple.

Lady Ruffian 18 Nov 2009 4:13 PM

I don't really care either. It's nothing but a ego boost to the connections. If I had to choose, I guess I would go with Zen.  She did beat the best in the world, which hold a lot of weight and I think she deserved it last year too. You have to beat the best to be the best.  I don't blame the Moss's for keeping their baby home. I would have too if she were mine. Jess Jackson is a sporting type but he had an opportunity there that does not come around often.  This might sound crazy and I don't know if it was even an option, but he could have ran RA in the turf if he personally doesn't like synthetic.  Great horses can run on any surface.

jed_dog 18 Nov 2009 4:14 PM

Thanks Assault. That was exactly what I was trying to say in this blog. Geez. See what I mean people?

BTW, Wilson--the biggest race in North American is the first Saturday in May, just to let you know.

jshandler 18 Nov 2009 4:14 PM

I nominate Zenyatta for California's HOY.

nina 18 Nov 2009 4:31 PM

Very well said Jason.  I don't care either way even though I am a staunch Zenyatta fan.  It doesn't matter to me.  I will always believe what I believe about Zenyatta, but I can see both sides of the arguement and Rachel Alexandra will be a deserving winner.  and thank you for phrasing it the way you did.  You gave Zenyatta huge praise that she deserves but still stated why youy think Rachel Alexandra deserves it.  Thank you!

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 4:32 PM

Jason, I would like to answer your provocative question of why everybody cares so much about Horse of the Year.  I never cared much any other year, but I think what this debate is really about is synthetic surfaces and the future of racing.

As a Westerner, I go to Calif. tracks to see live racing.  I have watched some great racing action at all three of them since I became a fan in the '90s.  What has happened is, the surfaces have changed and although I'm still witnessing great racing, it seems half the country is up in arms and saying Califonia racing, in effect, doesn't count (I guess it also doesn't count on the other synthetic tracks either), and particularly that the last two years of BC winners should have asterisks next to their names.  This bugs me.

Not only does it bug me, but this raging "war" kept us from seeing the matchup of the year.  If blame is to be assessed among the connections, I agree with Phantom's breakdown of 75% JJ and 25% Mosses.  Just my opinion.

I think all this acrimony about the horses (really about surfaces) is very bad for the game.  I am not at all sure the negativity toward synthetics is going to gain us anything, because in racing's current economic climate, I just don't see tracks being dug up and replaced.  Maybe someday, I don't know.  In the meantime, I do see a major division in the game and it makes me sad.  I have a feeling if RA wins, many will claim an anti-synthetic victory, whereas if Zenyatta wins, I think her connections and fans will be more likely to view it simply as a deserved victory for the better horse (not necessarily better campaign).  That's why I wish Zenyatta would win.

Pam S. 18 Nov 2009 4:43 PM

Two great fillies, loads of catty, loud mouthed women supporters= CRAZY.  Zenyatta has my heart, Rachel Alexandra gets the vote.  

Expect lot's of weepy, whiney sore losers consoling themselves with chocolate and filling forums with long winded rants.

Zenyatta Nada 18 Nov 2009 4:45 PM

Well said Jason! Let's all move on to other topics, like the 2010 Derby... Whatever the outcome for 2009 HOY, is going to happen anyway and whatever we post here on the blogs doesn't really matter. I'm with you, who cares anymore??!!!

ALB 18 Nov 2009 4:46 PM

I thought RACHEL ALEXANDRA deserved the Horse of the Year crown after the Woodward Stakes, but quickly realized that the racing year doesn't end in the first week of September so I kept an open mind, hoping that ZENYATTA would do something worthy of earning that award. Then two things happened: 1) Jess Jackson decided not to come to the Breeders Cup with RACHEL ALEXANDRA. 2) ZENYATTA put on the most amazing performance in the history of the Breeders Cup. I care very much about who gets Horse of the Year, because fair is fair, and I hope the winner is ZENYATTA. Oh, and I think she deserved it last year as well.

Mike S 18 Nov 2009 4:46 PM

Would you people, you extremist, please for once, shut up. Jason, I know that's mean, but I'm personally fed up with all of this ridiculous back and forth towards either horse. Pesonally I agree with Jason, Zenyatta had a great performance in the Classic, but thanks to the connections of either horse not actually wanting to budge and come to meet the other in another race we will be left wondering who is truly better, IMO that is RA. So the only way to determine a vote is by HOTY is to look at who had the more complete season. Please don't tell that just because Zenyatta won the Classic she had a "complete" season. RA raced eight times, and had she continued to race through Novemember she would have wracked up 10 total starts 9.5 months. After she stopped in Nov. she had eight races 6.5 months, beating males three times in one season, something that hasn't been done for decades. RA has had the more complete season, on paper, and since paper is all we have to go by, that is all we can use to determine the outcome.

Now I know I'm one to talk, since I can be one of the more passionate, hot headed bloggers on this forum, but please, just calm down. Do I have a favorite, yes, will I be bummed if she loses, yes, will I stop watching racing, no. There is no need to slight the horse, the owner, the trainer, or supporters, just to get a point across. It is juvenile and quite frankly annoying, and to be honest I would skip the posts if I could but, just about every post on here is filled up with the words I would put into hate mail. Please just get over yourselves.

LDP 18 Nov 2009 4:47 PM

Pam: Thanks for your comments. You stated your opinions well.

Zenyatta Nada: I hope you are ready to answer to all our female fans. Don't run and hide!

jshandler 18 Nov 2009 4:49 PM

yes jason i do see what you mean and it is ugly! where has civility gone? jed dogs argument could be used the other way as well..i will not muddy up either of these horses..it is a shame .we should be happy!

bellesforever 18 Nov 2009 4:50 PM

I'd love to see fans take some of the passion they feel for these two wonderful athletes and use it to do good in the world by donating to Old Friends or another organization that helps retired racehorses. These animals give us so much joy--let's give them something back.

arlingtonfan 18 Nov 2009 4:51 PM

Ah, Jason.  The voice of reason.  To be honest with you I am sick to death of the whole thing.  I don't care one iota anymore.  This whole debate has descended into madness.

It's just plain crazy.  I understand the love and passion for your favorite horse but why does that have to mean trashing another horse?  Both horses have been on that receiving end.  I stopped reading the posts.  You would think that some of these people's lives depended on this award.  Some have lost their perspective on the whole thing.  Will the life end as we know it if your favorite horse doesn't win?  I hope not!  A couple of months after it is awarded nobody cares.

It certainly isn't worth all the heated arguments and nasty tbings said.  Let's move onto something else.

MonicaV 18 Nov 2009 4:56 PM

I can hear the ropes being strapped to the trees in front of the Beverly Hills Wilshire.

Both sides are extremely passionate about "Horse of the Year" honors.

I wouldn't want to be a "Horse of the Year" voter this year, especially if you vote against Zenyatta.

The Beverly Hills Wilshire is out west and if Zenyatta is not voted "Horse of the Year", there are going to be people out there waiting for you.

People take this real serious.

I would travel "in a herd" when trying to get to your rental cars.

If you don't make it, be prepared to be hung.

Ruffian 18 Nov 2009 4:57 PM

ok, last year racing  was on the stretcher in the ER, People were ready  to take it off life support, now  you ask us  WHY  WE CARE?? this is big ,huge giagundus!! lets all be glad of  this splendid recovery!! what joy in turfdom!!! we are a fickle bunch  and its hard  to not want  to talk racing  when  the only talk  that  was done last year was well, get  the pitchforks  and burn down  the stands. so  this is great ,people  who I never knew  were race fans  are coming out of  the woodwork faster than a fire in a termite hill. thank g@d!!!

so let it be heared from all corners  that racing is  alive  and well in America. its  the love of  the sport  the spectial of  greatness  the sound of  the pounding hooves , the color of  the sliks  and  the smell of better  things  to come!

THATS WHY!!

nyfalcon 18 Nov 2009 4:57 PM

This was a good blog, Jason, really good!

Why do some go off the deep end with outrageous blithering? Well, if they're like my husband, they do it to sit back and watch all the fur and feathers fly...like nada zenyatta...with their Cheshire cat grins as they faaaade into the backgrounds...;-)

da3hoss 18 Nov 2009 5:03 PM

Jason,

     People are just plain Nuts!  All the same arguments are getting so old.  Regardless of who wins, They are Both great Champions, Shouldn't that be enough?  Like I have said numerous times, When History is written, These two Champions will be remembered for what they did on the track, Not some trophy or award, Enough is Enough...

Greg J. 18 Nov 2009 5:04 PM

Bravo.  Somebody needed to write this blog.

The only thing I care about regarding the award is that in the future, more and more connections may adopt the cherry picking mentality as the best path to HOTY.  I think that would be detrimental to the sport.  

So with that in mind, if I had a vote it would go to Gio Ponti or Summer Bird.  Their connections didn't whine about the "plastics" or the Belmont detention barn, didn't race their horses at only their optimal distance, never scratched because the track wasn't perfect, etc, etc.  SB and Gio also had longer campaigns than RA or Zen and SB isn't even done for the year yet.

For all of those reasons I think they should be rewarded more than the connections of either Rachel or Zenyatta.  As you said, the

horses don't benefit from the HOTY, the connections do.

Irish 18 Nov 2009 5:05 PM

Jason,

You're in the group that put more weight to Rachel's campaign vs the other group who put more weight on the best horse. (best means Zenyatta would beat Rachel in a fair race going 10 furlongs, though this is mythical I believe this is true).

That's about it. Is it Rachel's campaign or is it the stronger horse that should be HOTY!

Depends what kind of voter you are!!

charles 18 Nov 2009 5:17 PM

I'm not posting to "debate" who should win HOY. I don't have to "defend" which horse I think should win!!

However, you asked "why" we care!? Hello! Some folks are into The World Series. Some are into the Super Bowl, etc., etc.

Me! I have never been so passionate about horse racing as I have been this year. WHY? Because we were blessed with two of the most talented and beautiful "girls" in racing. That fact cannot be diminished by any negative posters.

If you're not passionate about something in life, then that's pretty sad, IMO.

I think you should contact the owners and trainers of both horses before writing this: "I'm pretty sure that Jerry Moss and John Shirreffs, and Jess Jackson and Steve Asmussen, will be Ok if their horse doesn't win." Why are any of them in this business, to win an Oscar? Pleeeeezzzz!

BTW these horses are so smart - don't be surprised if they take the loss seriously... a little humor there! :-)

Judy Loves both ZENYATTA & RACHEL 18 Nov 2009 5:17 PM

I think it's a west coast/east coast thing...

The reason Rachel ducked the BC is because of her owner's hatred of synthetics.

Most of us here on the west coast are sick of hearing that our racing doesn't count.

Remember who ran first and second in the KY Derby...synthetic horses.

There's NOTHING to be afraid of.

That's why it feels so unfair for Rachel to win.  It feels like people are saying that the Breeder's Cup doesn't count unless it's on dirt.

I think if they were male horses people would give huge deference to Summer Bird honestly.  He won Belmont/Travers/Jockey CLub and at least ran in the BC Classic.  Sure Rachel beat him at 1 1/8, but she didn't beat him at a 1 1/4.  There's a difference.

Jen 18 Nov 2009 5:18 PM

Charles: Thanks for telling us who would win the race. Any tips for this weekend at Churchill since you seem to have a knack for predicting winners?

jshandler 18 Nov 2009 5:19 PM

Judy: Nobody said not to have passion about horse racing. But to use your analogy, the Super Bowl and World Series are settled on the field. This HOY stuff is about crowning a champion on paper. My point was, too bad it didnt get settled on the track. Sorry if my point wasnt clear to you. Also, most owners are in the business to make MONEY, if that didnt dawn on you by now. You know when they retire horses early?? It's because they would rather take the stud money than risk the horse by racing them on the track. Hope that helps.

Jen: You make a good point. It probably is more of an east coast/west coast thing than anything.

jshandler 18 Nov 2009 5:23 PM

Jason, I am with Footlick, I am a staunch for Zenyatta, I just love her,and have followed her for the past two years, the way she does that little dance moves of hers. Yes, you are right, It is only on paper and it is just a statue, Yes, I believe zenyatta deserves it this year, she has done alot for the racing industry and bringing plenty of fanfare with her along the way. RA has another year to go to prove herself, and she will have a tougher campaign next year as now people are going to be seeing if she can go the extra distances and win. The she will have to win the BCC next year,just to be in the same competition as Zenyatta. I will be honest, trying to fill Zenyatta's shoes for two years is going to be hard. I wish RA well. Zenyatta has been truly an amazing horse, being the first filly to ever win the BCC against the top males of the world, and winning both classics in her career and winning 14 races, people say that she didn't race enough in 09, well, Jason, how many races does anyone think RA will run in next year when she has got to be able to run in the BCC next year. I expect her campaign for next season will be like Zenyata's was this season. about 5 races or so then get ready for the BCC, RA has to go in the BCC next season, or she will be looked down on because Zenyatta had won it the year before.And what races at bigger distances will JJ be able to put RA next season to get her ready for the longer distances. I hope RA can end her career on top of her game the way Zenyatta did hers. Jason, how do you award our NA filly that went up against the best the world had to throw at her, and she defeated them. Why, Jason, does anyone need to run our horses in the best championship race we have, if we ain't going to award them in a special way, If this is the case, tell JJ not to even run her next year in it bucause if she wins and doesn't run in more than 5 races next year, then she won't be able to get the HOTY award for next year. Oh,but thats right, He is JJ, so he will get it regaredless. I wish they would give RA another jock, Bashing Borel justs beats the hell out of her, I felt sorry for her in her last race, damn, she was already winning and my gosh, he was going whipping crazy, Mike Smith never had to beat Zenyatta like that. Most of the time, he never used the whip on her. Jason,How do you propose the awards to award the only filly to ever achieve what Zenyatta has in her career, I mean winning the BCC, and being the first to do so, what are we showing our foreign countries that our own horse wins the biggest race championship race that we have, that we go against them and we have a filly to do it and it is the first time it has ever been done. but, we don't honor our own, It is unbelievable. Then she retires being the richest NA filly and that doen't mean anything either.We should be giving her the highest honor,but we won't. because thats how sick our country is today. What represents the U.S.,goes out the window. So if Zenyatta isn't HOTY, how do you think we should honor her as, Maybe they need to create another award for her this year. better and much more higher than HOTY. Jason, I think people just don't want to give Zenyatta enough credit, as she has deserved it and more. I hope RA and every other filly out there can retire with a resume like Zenyatta's , Next year we will see if RA can race 8 races then go to the BCC and win it against some international boys and win. she will have to race in more than 5 races before the BCC or  she will have  have to light of a campaign like Zen did this year. I hope RA can keep you supporters up in the clouds next year too. I hope she can achieve what Zen did. Jason , please answer me back yourself on how we should award Zenyatta for her accomplishments that she has earned. Thankyou, Jason for speaking well of Zen. Zen, is a big part of history for all U.S. citizens for her accomplisnments.

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 5:30 PM

Do any of you football, baseball, basketball fans ever give a rats behind who the league MVP is? I seriously doubt it. This award is no different. It's time to start looking for my derby winner so I will let you people worry about who wins HOY.

longwaytomay 18 Nov 2009 5:35 PM

Why do I care?  

I would vote for Zenyatta hands down because I truly believe in my heart of hearts that Jess Jackson purposely was ducking any race against her.  I truly believe he knew he had a special filly and he carefully crafted a campaign for HOY to avoid the one horse that had the best potential to marr his filly's season.  He knew that it was not likely that Zenyatta will race next year and if she does, he likes his odds better against a 6 yr old than a currently hot-hot-hot 5 yr old race mare.

He had plenty of time to make a plan of action to ensure that Rachel was primed for the BC Classic, and its not like she hasn't succeeded on synthetics before - that dog don't hunt, Jess - he was avoiding Zenyatta.  Don't blame Z's connections for failing to come East to race ONE filly, when their eyes were on the Classic; when the chips were down, Jess Jackson's words about racing "champions against champions" proved to be so much hot air.

Honestly, I don't know which filly would have won; but 1-2 either way, it would have been a race for the ages and neither filly would have been disgraced.  

Thats why I care.

CGC 18 Nov 2009 5:37 PM

The east couldn't beat us out on the racetrack (Breeders Cup), but they are going to do their best to beat us on paper (Horse of the Year).

Nihilator 18 Nov 2009 5:37 PM

Carolyn: Im not getting into the credentials of each horse. That wasnt the point of this blog. I made it clear who I thought had the more complete season. How do you reward Zenyatta? With the champion older female. Do you really need to see a HOY trophy to appreciate her excellence?

jshandler 18 Nov 2009 5:42 PM

Jason, I too do not really care which horse wins HoY.  In my opinion, both Rachel and Zenyatta transcend the HoY award.  The HoY award is given every year, but horses like Rachel and Z come along once a generation, if even that.  Both are going to be remembered for a long time, regardless of which one actually wins the award.  

I think one could make the argument that Rachel had the greatest season by a 3 year old filly in the last 100 years, and I think one could realistically claim that Zenyatta's Classic victory was one of the greatest single race accomplishments by a female thoroughbred in North American racing history.  Ultimately, both Rachel and Z will be remembered for much more than winning the HoY.

Jason, you are also correct that the connections of both horses deserve some of the blame as to why the two greats never met.  While I do not feel either camp should be condemned for the campaigns they mapped out, and recognize that their was logic behind their decisions, I never got the feeling that either really wanted to face the other.  Yet, I do understand the hesitancy of both.  If I were Jess Jackson, and had a 3 year old filly that had already had a demanding year, I wouldn't have been particularly enthusiastic about running her against a monsterous 5 year old mare on a synthetic surface.  And if I were Sheriffs or Moss, and was pointing my mare towards a start in the Breeders Cup Classic, I wouldn't have been keen on shipping her across country to run on a dirt surface against a brilliant dirt performer.  Most likely, whichever side had chosen to be the "bigger man" would have lost; I truly believe Rachel would have been up against it had she been in the Classic, and while I believe Zenyatta would have had a better shot, I still think she would have been facing alot of disadvantages had she met Rachel on dirt at Belmont (Beldame) in what likely would have been a small field with little speed to entertain Rachel upfront.

Personally, I have no problem with Rachel and Z being co-HoYs.  The Eclipse awards have only been around since 71', and I'm just not convinced by arguments that changing the rules to allow co-HoYs would damage the integrity of the Eclipse awards or the sport as a whole.

If I was forced at gunpoint to pick one for HoY (and I would need to be at gunpoint to do it), I would select Rachel.  I had the privilege of seeing both Z and Rachel run this year.  First, I saw Rachel in her historic 20 length Kentucky Oaks romp, and then I was finally able to see Zenyatta run for the first time when I witnessed her historic BC Classic victory.  In my opinion, Zenyatta's BC Classic win trumps any one of Rachel's 8 triumphs on the year. However, I do believe Rachel had the more complete season, with her 8 total wins on 7 different tracks, and 5 grade 1 victories.  And besides the Oaks, Rachel accomplished something historic in her wins in the Preakness(first filly to win the race since the 20's), Mother Goose(record time and record 19 length margin of victory), Haskell(2nd filly to win the race, 2nd fastest time, second largest margin), and Woodward(first female to win the race, first 3 year old filly to win a gr.1 dirt race against older males around 2 turns in New York and I believe US history, with the grading system having been established in 1973).  

Prior to Rachel coming along, I would have said that it was virtually impossible for a 3 year old filly to win the Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward in a single year. In fact, when some, like LDP, started making hypothetical campaigns for Rachel after the Preakness and suggested a start in the Woodward, I commented by calling it "unrealistic". By winning the Louisiana Oaks and Fanatsy in romps, the Oaks by 20, the Mother Goose by 19, the Preakness, Haskell, and Woodward, Rachel took everything I believed about 3 year old fillies(particularly as it concerns their ability to run against males) and turned it on its head.  

Rachel's campaign was nothing short of revolutionary, at least as it concens racing in the US, and I wonder if Rachel had not accomplished what she did, would we even have seen Zenyatta in the Classic?  Remember that earlier in the year, with the breakdown of Eight Belles in last year's Derby still fresh in people's minds, there was alot of concern about running females against males.  Does everyone remember all the articles, commentaries, and blog postings expressing concern when Rachel was entered in the Preakness? There was a sizeable sentiment that Rachel would either injure herself in the race, or, if she was not injured during the actual running of the race, the effort would take so much out of her that it would basically ruin her for the rest of the year.  And, based on the evidence from Eight Belles, Ruffian, Rags to Riches(never won another race after the Belmont), Winning Colors(never won another grade 1 after her Derby), and Genuine Risk(won only 1 gr.1 after her Derby), such sentiment appeared to have merit.  

Boy have opinions changed! Not only did Rachel not breakdown in the Preakness, she won the race, and then went on to win the Mother Goose by 19 and beat males in the Haskell and Woodward.  By the time of the BC Classic, there were few professional writers and racing fans expressing any concern about Zenyatta running against males in the Classic.  Instead, Rachel had so changed the perception of the ability of female racehorses to withstand the demands or running vs. males, that it would have been seen as an act of cowardice had Sheriffs and Moss run Zenyatta in the Distaff rather than the Classic.  Seriously, go back and read material following last year's Derby or prior to this year's Preakness and see just how far Rachel shifted the paradigm!

All of the above is not meant to slight Zenyatta in any way.  Seeing Zenyatta win the Classic in person was one of my greatest racetrack experiences, if not my greatest.  The only other experiences to compare were seeing Lava Man win his 3rd Hollywood Gold Cup, Smarty Jones win the 04' Preakness by 13, Tiznow win his 2nd BC Classic, and Best Pal win the 92' Big Cap.  As I wrote earlier, Zenyatta's Classic win is superior to any one of Rachel's career wins.  Any while I might rank Rachel's season this year ever so slightly higher than Zenyatta's 2009 season, I think Zenyatta has had the better career to date.  Zenyatta finished her career 14 for 14, with 8 gr.1 wins and 4 gr.2 wins.  Additionally, Zenyatta set the career earnings mark for fillies and mares in North America with approximately $5.4 million, crushing Azeri's previous mark by well over $1 million, and is the only horse thus far to have won two different Breeders Cup races.  

If I had to rank both Zenyatta and Rachel among the greatest females of the last 110 years(Bloodhorse Top 100 + this decade), I would have to rank Zenyatta the higher of the two.  In fact, I think I might have to rank Zenyatta as my #1 female, or, at the very least, in the top 7 with Ruffian, Busher, Gallorette, Twilight Tear, Personal Ensign, and Lady's Secret. I would not have any problem with someone if they ranked Zenyatta and Rachel #1 and #2.  That's how blessed I think we all were to have these two legendary horses!

GunBow 18 Nov 2009 5:47 PM

I'm guilty of getting into the debate when it started in your Humble Pie entry.  I don't really care which horse wins but the arguing was fun at first.  Then people started claiming they were defending their favorite horse's honor (words to that effect) and otherwise going overboard and the debate stopped being fun.  And the repetition from some posters is extremely annoying.    

I'd love to see the Jason's brain v. Jason's heart email.  

Steve 18 Nov 2009 5:53 PM

I hear ya Jason. You know, maybe most of these bloggers are probably coming from the Nicanor/Lentenor blog, seeing as how only one horse has raced within the last 6 months. There isn't much to talk about but this. So maybe they're chiming in. lol.

Nonetheless, I'm with you on this. Sure, I'll turn on TVG and watch the awards, but I could give a rat's A** on who wins the award. I saw two amazing fillies race all year, and made some money with them as well. I would've loved to see these two go at it on the racetrack, but as we all know, it won't happen. There's many people to blame for not making this happen (Breeders Cup, Pride, surfaces, etc), but not the horses. We still got Rachel left for next year, at least I'll get to enjoy that. And hopefully one of these 2 year olds step up next year to challenger her, Summer Bird, Girolamo, Quality Road, etc.

My vote: Zenyatta, for reasons already noted in previous blogs

The Rock 18 Nov 2009 5:53 PM

I feel really sorry for horse racing writers and bloggers right now.  Some of the comments are just downright mean.  Keep your chin up - the debate will be settled eventually.

I would vote for Rachel Alexandra, although I think we have been lucky enough to see two talented, impressive mares in one year.  I won't be at all upset if Zenyatta wins because she's an amazing horse.

Personally, I don't really see this as a synthetic vs dirt argument.  Yes, I think the fact that Zenyatta only raced in California is a knock against her, but not because the track is synthetic.  She had a home field advantage and for four of her races, she pretty much raced the same mares over and over.  I would feel the same way even if California still had dirt tracks.

Dovienya 18 Nov 2009 5:56 PM

"Do you really need to see a HOY trophy to appreciate her excellence?"

Well put, Jason!  "Winning" the Eclipse for Horse of the Year won't change anyone's opinions about either horse.  It's not like I would watch Zenyatta's Classic win or Rachel's Haskell win and say, "Not bad, but she couldn't even win Horse of the Year!"

Dovienya 18 Nov 2009 5:59 PM

Yes Jason, Carolyn needs Zen's HOY award, lots of rope and victory pies to celebrate the 'whole' picture.

Ruffian- Travel in groups, smart idea.  And throw chocolate bars at them to distract them as you make a run for it.

ZENYATTA NADA 18 Nov 2009 5:59 PM

Jen,..you beat me to it.It's ABSOLUTELY a West coast/East coast perspective. Notice how 'we' put West before East,and 'they' reverse it.  lol. Some things never change.They both deserve it.

But,honestly.If you have a smidgen of horse racing knowledge,you'll know that Zenyatta is superior to RA right now.And that's all that matters in this whole debate..er, debacle regarding who's better or who's HOY.  

Carlos in Cali 18 Nov 2009 6:10 PM

If John Gaines was still runing the Breeders Cup those two horses would have met.

jmed 18 Nov 2009 6:11 PM

I agree Jason,

We don't need any special awards for particular horses. Ask the person who wins the "Most Impoved Player" award feels like afterwards.

The Rock 18 Nov 2009 6:25 PM

No Jason you don't. Does RA fans have to have one to remember her accomplishments. They seem too, because they sure are riled up about it. by the way folks, I ain't fond of JJ at all,but I did hear him say that he would not go to the go to the BCC and race because the other horse had the advantage on that surface. He said that after RA last race, I believe Janeen or the other lady was interviewing him after the race. Yes. she asked him about going to the BCC and he said NO, the other horse had the advantage on that surface. Does anybody else remember him saying that?

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 6:29 PM

I think Carolyn made an excellent point when she brought up the fact if America doesnt recognize Zenyatta as HOY--what are we showing  foreign countries-- that the best horse in the world wins the biggest championship race, that we go against them and we have a filly to do it and it is the first time it has ever been done. but, we don't honor our own> I agree unbelievable if this happens. It would be a travesty.

Gutless Jackson saw first hand Zenyatta last year, and he knew she would have destroyed Curlin. He convinced himself that RA could never beat Zenyatta.  Listen to Mike Smith's interview: he has ridden Holy Bull, and countless other champions, and NOBODY compares to the great Zen.

It is an east coast/west coast issue; since the voters are primarily east coast based. West coasters will always have a suspicion of fairness.  Gary Player stated it well, champions show up no matter what to any Championship.

In the scope of everyday life, does it really matter who is HOY? Not really; It would be an injustice though if RA would win. It would make West Coasters even more leary of the voters bias, and make most people angry to reward an owner for being a cop out.

rhoward 18 Nov 2009 6:38 PM

Hey, don't insult women; I'm a girl and I'm perfectly reasonable. As for this debate, I am not taking one side or the other. I personally think that they are both exceptional, but I'm not convinced that we will never see their likes again. I may be wrong, but look for similar feats to be done in about 20 years or so. I personally think Raven's Pass would have won this classic too, but that's just my opinion. Also, with Goldikova, Conduit, and Twice Over's performances and Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman's failures, does last years Euro three-year-old crop keep looking better and better?

Citation 18 Nov 2009 6:40 PM

Thank you Jason.  

I've been participating in this debate on a forum; wait, let me rephrase that.  I WAS participating in this debate on a forum.  After stating my case for RA, I was verbally assaulted by a frothing bevy of Zenyatta fans.  Enter an equally frothy slew of RA fans, and things just deteriorated beyond salvage.  

It was nice, initially, to see people so passionate about something seemingly positive in the sport.  Now, I'm saddened to see either of these horses accomplishments this year denigrated in an effort to bolster the case for the other.  The sport desperately needed these horses; they came in like a hail mary in the last seconds of the game.  To slander either of their campaigns simply means that you must not have been paying attention.  How sad that those who consider themselves race fans would turn a blind eye to any of the history laid down this year.  I'd like to think we could state our cases without demeaning each other or diminishing the accomplishments of the other horse.

Hey Zenyatta Nada- I guess I'm one of those 'catty loud mouthed women'.  Miraculous that I'm capable of overcoming the handicap of my second X chromosome long enough to type, what with all the weeping and whining I have to do.  I've even managed to participate in conversations about this in PERSON without bursting into tears or blaming the supposed idiocy of differing opinion on anyones sex or current hormonal fluctuations.  Maybe I should get an eclipse for these stunning achievements as a female race fan?

Swale 18 Nov 2009 6:50 PM

As I stated on one of these blogs that I got bored reading them all and some were very hateful. I do believe in Zen but its just my opinion among the millions of others. I just thought that the field she easily beat in the BBC put her over the top. I do agree this is more of a East/West - Dirt vs Synthetic thing than about the horses. I am for a natural dirt surface but synthetics are here to stay whether we like it or not. Let get on with the KD debate please.

Rowner 18 Nov 2009 6:52 PM

Jason, HOTY is important to the fans the same way that the Super Bowl matters to football fans and the World Series matters to baseball fans.  Most fans of those sports do not personally profit regardless of who wins, but they still like to root for their favorites.  However, in football and baseball, the champions are not decided by a vote of sports columnists.  If they were, most fans would view the results as biased, subjective and possibly even corrupt.

In my opinion, horse racing, as a sport and industry, needs to change the way HOTY is decided.  While it is impossible to ensure each year that all of the HOTY contenders actually face each, there should be put in place an objective, unbiased and unambiguous method of deciding which horse is HOTY.  It should no longer be decided by the votes of selected turf writers. Frankly, I feel that my opinion is at least as valid as most turf writers as I have been around this sport for 45 years as a fan and 8 years as a horse owner.

As for profanity-laced emails, insults, etc., I agree that they have no place in this discussion.  Sadly, the anonymity of the internet emboldens people to be obnoxious.

FourCats 18 Nov 2009 6:52 PM

Jason,

I guess it's a great thing that so many people in the racing sphere are so passionate about the HOY race - good PR.  But I don't envy you the position of blog writer - your descriptions of some of the rants you've received are...well...not surprising but still kind of scary!

I guess when you used the term "in a nutshell" you needed to put the emphasis on "nuts!"

As for me - I'm voting for Zenyatta because people ultimately vote their hearts - and she captured mine more than Rachel.  (Though I've enjoyed and followed RA since she was a 2-yr-old.)  

Ultimately - HOY is just like anything else - a vote on personal preference.  Records aside - people vote for who captivates them at an emotional level.

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream, I guess - both great - but totally different tastes.

Either way - the sun sets in the West and rises in the East and a new dawn arrives.

One thing though - is it a "tell" that the Eclipse dinner is being presented by Kendall-Jackson??

cgriff 18 Nov 2009 6:59 PM

Why do we care so much? Oh maybe because I'm in awe of these two drop-dead gorgeous Ladies who brought so much fun and excitement to my life this year. Because while the world is going to hell in a handbasket, Zenyatta had me laughing hysterically when doing her Vegas Showgirl routines and then going out and kicking major butt.  Or Rachel racing against some of the best male horses in the country, both young and older, and just looking annoyed when some dared get too close forcing her to get into her "eat my dust" gear. Just looking at them gives me a sense of well-being. So, yes I care a lot for them.  They make me happy. But more important to me than HOY, I would prefer that they stay healthy and sound and happy for a long, long time.

Ida Lee 18 Nov 2009 7:18 PM

The only way to decide is to let the two mares meet, and race each other!

Jennifer 18 Nov 2009 7:23 PM

   I think the real best girl race would have been between Zenyatta and Goldikova. RA is a 1 1/8 mile specialist period.

DB 18 Nov 2009 7:46 PM

I thought Zenyatta would have HOTY locked this year, then along came Rachel to throw a monkey wrench in the works. To those who say "there is always next year for Rachel" what if another great horse comes along (should we be so blessed), What if there is a Triple Crown winner that can't compete in the BC for whatever reason. Rachel getting HOTY is not a guarantee and that is why this is serious.

I don't care either way and I want both to get the award because they both deserve it. They don't need a consolation prize. They are amazing animals and they know that they are. So to them, they are already horse of the year. It's up to us humans to figure out the rest.

Curlin-Banwagoneer 18 Nov 2009 7:49 PM

DB- Goldikova has only run longer than 8 furlongs once, in the Prix de Diane.  But I would have loved to see her run in the Ladies' Classic.

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 7:59 PM

I think once one leaves the "Boys" handicapping dirt ranks for HOY it is more common to have horses that do not leave their state/track.  

Kotashan:

Eddie Read

San Luis Rey

San Luis Obisbo

Oak Tree Invitational

Breeder's Cup Turf (At SA).

Azeri:

Santa Magarita

Milady

Vanity

Clement L Hirsh

Lady's Secret

La Canada

Apple Blossom

Breeder's Cup Distaff (Arlington)

Jason if your a Lure fan you got robbed.  Azeri did leave 2x, but she HAD to race in the Breeder's Cup Distaff to get HOY.

I think it is overly simplistic to decide who is a better horse through an HOY ballot.  Who was a better horse Sunday Silence or Easy Goer?  On which day?  Who was better Ferdinand or Alysheba?  Which race?  "Old school" racing used to be about competition and facing a competitor many times.  I loose, change tatics the next time, and come back and win.

Now were just left with some silly "American-Idol" like voting to determine who was better.  I say just make the Kentucy Derby winner HOY each year and call it a day.  

Householder 18 Nov 2009 8:03 PM

Jason,

AMEN! This needed to be said. Still, I love how people find the need to bash each horse to make their favorite look better on THIS blog! Seriously, everyone, get over Horse of the Year. It's a statue, nothing more. As Jason said, Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta could care less.

One more thing, saying that Zenyatta should be HOTY because Rachel "still has another year" is ridiculous. What if, God forbid, Rachel suffered a career-ending injury the day after the awards were announced and she wasn't Horse of the Year for 2009 because the voters thought she deserved it but would have another chance to win in 2010? What then? You all forget how fragile these beautiful animals are.

funnycideoflife 18 Nov 2009 8:03 PM

Citation- I believe if we are as smart as the Europeans in figuring out which fillies can be competitive with colts at a multitude of distances, we will see more fillies doing it.  I just reread the exploits of the 4 yr old Glorious Song valiantly running against the best males, including Spectacular Bid.  He was giving her tons of weight, as he should have, but she was the actual second high weight in the race.  She ran tough, didn't win but was certainly not embarassed.  It can be done, and will be done again.  Europeans aren't afraid to run fillies against colts, we shouldn't be either.

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 8:16 PM

Those who are saying "this is the year of Zenyatta, we will give it to Rachel next year.."- I have one thing to ask..ARE YOU NUTS?? Why is everyone thinking Rachel will have an equally brilliant season next year? She's not vulnerable to injury/disease/age/wear-n-tear/mare unpredictability or who knows..another superhorse??? You just assume she'll do it again to please us all??? What on earth are we coming to when we assume a horse's performance a full year in advance?!

Why do I care? Because I hate to see either one not recognized. Because our sport is dying, and these ladies are it's literal heartbeat. What we do here in HOY will very likely determine our futures...it cannot, and must not- be an "ordinary" year.

Kim in KY 18 Nov 2009 8:22 PM

Hear, hear, Gunbow.  I agree completely with your sentiments.  If not for RA, I doubt we would have seen Zen in the BCC.  In fact, I am not sure we would have seen her in it if Sea the Stars had raced.  

Aside fromt the Classic Zen didn't do much this year (emphasis on the this part of this year).  I think the tragedy is what Zenyatta could have done.  Even without leaving CA if Zen had run in and won either the Santa Anita Handicap, HW Gold Cup or Pacific Classic she would win this award outright probably in a landslide but her owners didn't race her.  Who doesn't think she could have won one or all of of those races?

I've said before if Zen gets HOY then accept the best older horses to sit out the spring early summer season to be "rested" for the BC.

Lawduck07 18 Nov 2009 8:30 PM

You wonder why winning HOY has impassioned so many fans, Jason? Since when has winning the TITLE *not* mattered in *any* sport?  Especially when you consider that the VOTES are so very subjective as they are in this particular sport in this particular year?

I think Steve Haskin expressed it best when he wrote that he could not vote AGAINST either of these champions!  Yes, AGAINST - for to vote FOR one is a vote AGAINST the other.  Which side is prepared to concede that the other horse is better?  Not I!  But I am prepared to compromise for the good of the sport and call them equal, if different.

Both made history this year, both are beyond compare in THIS year - not even to each other because of the difference in age, campaign, quality of those they defeated and, probably most of all, the surface each raced on...

Like it or not, Rachel's surface favored up-front speed; Zenyatta's favored the deep closer.  So what you may actually be seeing, bottom line, is commenters who favor one type over the other and see the epitome of that type in their preferred candidate. I would also be very interested to know the ages of the fans of each type.  I suspect you would see a majority of older fans favoring Zen and younger ones, Rachel.  That could be a very enlightening poll!

sherpa 18 Nov 2009 8:44 PM

Some fans on both sides have taken on a scary lunatic fringe quality.  Barring a race between the filly and the mare, I think the best way to decide HOTY is to throw the craziest fan from each side into a boxing ring together.  Last one standing gets HOTY for their horse.

Your next blog should be devoted to picking the craziest fans for the ring.  

Theresa S. 18 Nov 2009 8:47 PM

funnycideoflife- I was thinking the same thing.  But people just can't stop trying to get their digs in.  

Householder- I think Lure got robbed too.  But that's voting.  

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 8:48 PM

I for one am a fan of horse racing and I try to look at things objectively.  That become quite hard to do when people on the west coast try to compare their stars to those on the East Coast.  In the east you can possibly run into 3 or 4 Grade 1 winners in 1 race.  That is how deep the competition is in the East, on the West Coast chances are you run into 1 possibly 0 Grade 1 horses.  I believe that is the frustrating thing to those of us on the East Coast.  When thinking about all of the mud being slung at Jess Jackson, I believe that those that are taking shots at him are immature and unable to recognize an owner who is taking care of his responsibility towards his horse.  Rachel Alexandra is a filly a 3 year old filly that is still developing.  After running from Feb-Sept, I am sure that some of you would continue to run her into the ground and she would end up hurt.  That is why those of you dont own horses.  Here are some facts though, Jess Jackson said early in the year that Rachel would not be competing in the B.C. Jerry Moss stated in June in the DRF that Zenyatta was shipping East to run, they had brought her East to run in the Louisville but because the track wasnt perfectly dry and fast she couldnt run. Then two days later backed off that statement because they didnt want her to face or deal with detention barns. Hmmmmmm, so 1 man says im not running my horse out west and sticks by his decision, the other states he is bringing his horse east and then backs off and changes his mind.  Who seems to be the man who is causing the issues.  Its very sad that JJ campaigns his horse as Jason said in a way to garner HOY to let fans in a number of states see her and the other connections only want to focus on 1 state but JJ is vilified.  Those of you that keep saying what you do about JJ, go ahead but he'll be the one laughing come Jan 18 when he's picking up the HOY trophy.

afleetalexforever 18 Nov 2009 9:04 PM

Sherpa, you are abosolutely correct with your observations. I believe the same way, alot of this is based on the fan's ages, and how they see this picture.I am a 45 years old so I know the way I vote and see things, but the younger generation don't see it the same as some of us older ones.

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 9:09 PM

Who Cares? I now know you have NEVER been in Albany, NY during Baseball Season. People here are either Red Sox fans or Yankee Fans, and much like the talk of Zen and Rachel is how the story goes. I think it's like most things, you pick the one you like and you fight to the end with it. Like they said above, Affirmed seemed to get the best of Alydar, but to me Alydar will always be better!!!

mokey 18 Nov 2009 9:25 PM

curlin-bandwagoner, you are correct, both of these ladies deserve to share the HOTY, so it is up to the award people to do something extroidinary this year.

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 9:25 PM

Jason, I can't stop laughing about "Jason's head" versus Jason's heart." HILARIOUS!!!! Much better and funnier than the expletive deleted letters.

I love both horses. It isn't about being politically correct. It's about wanting everyone to be rewarded and happy, and most importantly, for the two fillys to be acknowledged for the brilliant horses that they are. Will that probably happen? No. I disagree that you cannot have two winners. But you are right that all they care about are carrots and hay, and we are living vicariously through them. The people on this site love horses and because of that we defend them to the hilt. we are emotionally invested in them.

But Jason, there is a bigger issue here which cuts to the current popularity, or lack thereof, of horse racing. I think by rewarding both horses you keep the public interested and involved. It will increase the fan base. This isn't like baseball or basketball where the same teams come back year after year to fight the good fight another day. Horses have a finite amount of time in the public arena. So their opportunites to win HOTY are limited. There hasn't been this much interest in horse racing in awhile and that's because you haven't had two horses of this calibre in a longtime, racing in the same year. We need to build on it. It's about expanding the sport and being savvy about viewership. You are right, I don't want people going home mad and disenchanted because the powers that be couldn't think outside the box.

Paula Higgins 18 Nov 2009 9:25 PM

I care so much because I passionately believe that both horses deserve to be HOY. Not because it would be "politically correct" but because both displayed greatness and I feel it would be very unfair to deny either of them the award. The politics is more apt to come in if voters are forced to choose. The fact that so many people care, sentiment is so divided and strong cases can be made for both horses is evidence of just how deserving both are and how subjective voting is. This is why many people in racing want to be able to vote for a joint award.

wildblueroan 18 Nov 2009 9:27 PM

Rachel Alexandra's head is ugly.

Rachel Alexandra's Head 18 Nov 2009 9:46 PM

Couldn't have put this any better Jason. Someone has to win someone has too lose, it's the nature of competition. I'm sure none of those owners or trainers are losing any sleep over this.

CBman 18 Nov 2009 9:52 PM

I don't think it's all that negative that the HOTY debate is heated this year.  The threats and insults are over the top, but well reasoned passionate argument is welcome.  What would we be talking about otherwise?  How inferior this year's 2yo crop is again? The early favorite for the Derby? Who is shipping to Dubai?  How unfair it is that good horses are retired too early?  Eh - same old arguments.  That's why I am enjoying this debate.  It breathes new life into an aspect of our sport that normally gets comparatively little press.

As for the proper pick for HOTY...well, i think you need to take this year's accomplishments alone and consider them.  While I prefer that the honor be split, I understand why it cannot be.  So, pick the horse with the best season, whoever she may be, and count yourselves lucky to have been witness to the best year ever for the girls.  It may never happen again.  I say argue away and then when the voting dust has settled, laugh it off and give thanks.

Chicks Rule!!!!

Kelly E. 18 Nov 2009 10:00 PM

It means more to West Coast Fans, this time.....

Matthew W 18 Nov 2009 10:19 PM

Jason, as I have said before, I love both horses and will not disrespect either one.  You ask why do we care so much who gets the award? I can only speak for myself here but it is very important to me as a lifelong racing fan (35+ years and counting) that great horses receive their due recognition.  I was not alive for some of the all time greats like my favorite Native Dancer, but I have been waiting for a horse to come along again that I felt measured up to the truly great ones!  Year after year I watch and hope for one that will stir me again like Spectacular Bid and Affirmed and Seattle Slew and Secretariat, and this year TWO horses have had that affect.  Therefore I feel very sad if one of them does not get their due recognition.  I personally do not gain or lose anything on the outcome of course but as such a huge fan I will still be very happy or disappointed depending... I believe it should be a tie because they are both extraordinary and although Rachel's campaign was more ambitious, it is not always just about that.  Zenyatta was so dominant and the best of her was never seen.  WOW, what a year!!  And yes it was a shame they never met.  I really miss the days of old when spirited rivalries took place regularly, but I would not have liked to see either of them lose so maybe for me it was for the best.  Thanks for the opportunity to share my two cents!

Racingfan 18 Nov 2009 10:26 PM

It's a shame we have to choose between either of these great mares. However, to win it all you have to risk it all. I think the Moss's and company did that with Zenyatta on the World's biggest stage. She also won more money than RA. Perhaps in years to come Zen will be viewed as the best ever. I think she could run down anything on dirt or the synthetics. Give the lady her crown HOY please!!!

Alhoa2007 18 Nov 2009 10:26 PM

I am glad they will NEVER race together. They are two different styles of runners. Racing each other deminishes them both. I've had a great year of fun watching them race.

Gail 18 Nov 2009 10:34 PM

FunnyCide, Suppose Zenyatta would have died on the tracks this year, would you have felt bad that she didn't get the HOTY last year?

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 10:36 PM

Jason,

    Would love to see the, "Jason's Brain" VS. "Jason's Heart" Argument as a guest Blog Entry, Just post it from "Anonymous"...

Greg J. 18 Nov 2009 10:37 PM

Afleetalexforever- it's those kinds of comments that make it so difficult.  What kind of objectivity is that?  There's so much I could say, but we are supposed to be getting past that.  So I'll sit in silence and see the comments build up denegrating California horses and racing.

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 10:42 PM

RA's head, I have to disagree, there is nothing ugly on Rachael Alexandra-the horse herself. I have no use for her owner, but I have nothing against the horse herself because I love all these horses. I don't gamble on them or bet, I just love to see the majestic creatures for what they are. But,although, I am a huge Zenyatta fan and think she should recieve this award, I will not call Rachael no bad names.not the horse herself. I actually feel sorry for her now. with her strenuous season coming up and having Bashing Borel on her back beating her as much as he does. She needs a new jock.

carolyn rogers 18 Nov 2009 10:50 PM

Jason,

    Just wait until January 19th, Just when you think you have seen it all?  Watch what comments will be coming in from the losing side of this debate!  You haven't seen nothing yet, The bad-mouthing of the connections and the winner, The bad-mouthing of the Voters, WOW, I cannot even imagine what we will see...

Greg J. 18 Nov 2009 10:52 PM

Jason,

You better wear a bullet-proof vest to the Eclipse Awards.

It's going to get brutal. They are going to take you out behind the woodshed!

Ghostzapper 18 Nov 2009 11:21 PM

LDP: you crack me up. You tell the "extremists" to shut up already..then you go right in to your case about why RA should be HOY.  

Karen2 18 Nov 2009 11:30 PM

Mokey- that's because Alydar had to change his whole running style to try to beat Affirmed.  It was very difficult and he was extremely valiant in defeat not being able to run his strongest style of race.  I always admired Alydar for that.

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 11:30 PM

Rachel Alexandra's head is ugly??? What are you, a moron??? Either that comment was thrown in to ruffle feathers or you are just plain blind. There is nothing "ugly" about RA.

AfleetAlexforever... I love Afleet Alex...please do his name justice. Do not start a post claiming to be objective and then follow with a post that clearly states your east coast bias. That is not being objective.

Karen2 18 Nov 2009 11:35 PM

The Rock- the Most Improved Player probably feels great because he'll get a raise!

Footlick 18 Nov 2009 11:46 PM

Jason,  You're right about HOY not making any difference to the horses. As far as "sportmanship" goes, all I can say is both horses careers for the year were well managed.

We need to remember that Zenyatta's big steps into the spotlight happened in '08 when the climate made it not exactly PC for fillies to race against colts due to the KD Eight Belles breakdown.

One year later, if Rachel hadn't been purchased after the KO, she probably wouldn't be in the HOY picture now.  Wouldn't it have been great if she'd run in the Derby, or maybe not cause it's 1 1/4 miles?

HOY is financially important for horses going to stud; for their owners and the farm where they will stand.  With a filly and a mare as HOY frontrunners, it's most important to the owners and the fans.

At first I thought co-Horse of the Year was not the thing to do, but lately I've had second thoughts.

RA was brilliant.  And you're never gonna forget Zenyatta's charge down the stretch in the BC Classic.  Like I said before, the stands on the West Coast haven't rocked like that since John Henry was running.

I was at Santa Anita for Breeder's Cup on the 6th and 7th.  I was at the 1st Breeder's cup at Hollywood Park in 1984, where I watched Wild Again and Gate Dancer sandwich Slew O'Gold into oblivion and John Henry became HOY by a whisker.

Ya can take HOY for Rachel cause she needs it more than Zenyatta.

Zenyatta will never be forgotten.  

Aluminaut 18 Nov 2009 11:55 PM

Aluminaut- I feel the same way.

Footlick 19 Nov 2009 12:17 AM

LDP,...you've got to be kidding.Seriously.People that live in glass houses.....

afleetalex,...you being objective? No.not even close.Neither is your account of what went-down w/Zenyatta's plans.

Jason,...Why can't you be like Jurrassic Haskins & write sweet,non-commital,teary-eyed inducing stories instead of always sticking your neck out while firing-up the masses? But then again,you do possess a long, sleek,supple & regal-like one. :}  j/k.  

That 18 Nov 9:46pm post had me rollin'!   Sorry,I'm on Relva-mode again.

Carlos in Cali 19 Nov 2009 12:17 AM

I'm tired of the HotY debate now too. I've argued it...but I haven't gone nuts--except in empassioned conversations with family and ceramics class classmates. Who think me nuts. (One sweet "old lady" who is in a continuing ed. class combined with my class misunderstood me...and thought I was Rachel Alexandra's owner! She'd never heard of Rachel before! I talked about how Rachel was running well and she said, 'so you don't ride her anymore, but you're her owner?' and I smothered a laugh). Anyway, Rachel is HotY in my opinion but I won't slam Zen anymore. I'm trying to be more rational about synthetics even if I don't approve. Both are talented fillies with very different running styles. I'm just tired of people slamming Rachel (or rather her owner) for not getting to the BC. She proved enough! I'll be thrilled if she's HotY but if not, she's still HotY always. *looks at Rachel Alexandra pastel print, newspaper clippings, computer wallpaper, Breyer custom*...

MtBFan (STILL) 19 Nov 2009 1:39 AM

Jason:

SAM HOUSTON RACE PARK AND GALLERY FURNITURE STEP UP EFFORTS FOR 2010 STAKES RACE FEATURING ZENYATTA & RACHEL ALEXANDRA

The Park & Mattress Mack Pursue $1.5 Million Race Between Thoroughbred Powerhouses and Top International Horses for Premier Live Racing Event January 30, 2010

HOUSTON (November 11, 2009)—Sam Houston Race Park (www.shrp.com) and Gallery Furniture (www.galleryfurniture.com) continue to step up efforts to bring super star racers Zenyatta, who surpassed the top racers in the world this weekend and won the $5 Million Breeders’ Cup Classic (G1), and powerhouse filly Rachel Alexandra together in a high-dollar stakes race to take place at The Park on Saturday, January 30, 2010.  

The $1.5 million stakes race would be a 1 1/8 mile race on the dirt track. The first-class race will also feature a full field of elite Thoroughbreds from across the nation and around the world.

The event would mark the first time both top female racers Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra would face one another, creating one of the most anticipated racing events in horse racing history.

“Of course the Breeders Cup win was one of historic proportions for Zenyatta, her owners and trainers.  We are more dedicated than ever to bringing her and Rachel Alexandra to Houston for an epic showdown of the two greatest racehorses in the world,” stated Jim “Mattress Mack” McIngvale, Gallery Furniture.            

“We are fully prepared to host this race as part of our John B. Connally Turf Festival, in the event that both parties are interested in participating.  This is our largest race day of the year, and we would be proud to welcome not only Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra, but top horses from around the world, to race on our nationally recognized surface,” said Andrea Young, President and Chief Operating Officer, Sam Houston Race Park.  “We would absolutely love to have this historic race take place at The Park.”          

Rachel Alexandra is a three-year-old filly owned by Jess Jackson and Harold McCormick and is trained by one of the top winning trainers in the nation, Steve Asmussen.  She has gone undefeated this year, beating out some of the top male and female racers, and is considered a front-runner in the battle for 2009 Horse of the Year.  She has taken top honors in the Kentucky Oaks, the Preakness Stakes, Mother Goose and Haskell Invitational, and most recently, she won the Woodward Stakes.  Rachel Alexandra has been guided to victory this year by Calvin Borel.    

Zenyatta is a five-year-old mare owned by Jerome and Anne Moss who made history by defeating an all-male field in an extraordinary come-from-behind performance in this year’s Grade 1 $5 Million Breeders’ Cup Classic.  She has gone undefeated this year on synthetic surfaces and has a current record of 14-0.  In addition to making history in the Breeders’ Cup Classic, Zenyatta has highlighted her career with wins in the 2008 Apple Blossom Handicap, the Ladies’ Secret Handicap, the 2008 Breeders’ Cup Ladies Classic, the Clement L. Hirsch stakes and the $300,000 Lady’s Secret Stakes.  Zenyatta is jockeyed by Hall of Fame rider Mike Smith and is trained by John A. Shirreffs.

tcc 19 Nov 2009 4:07 AM

Aluminaut, I feel the same way, give RA the award, you know she has got another year ahead of her and she may not fair as well as this year,because she has got to run in more races and at longer distances, then on top of that, she is going to have her connections and fans hoping that she can get it all done and win in the BCC next year. I am a Zenyatta fan to the end, and I am going to say, you are right, lets let RA have the award, Zenyatta don't need it, she is not a colt that needs this awardfor siring purposes, I promise you when it is time for her foals to be sold, they won't have any problem with it and they will get top dollar for them, who will ever forget that she won the BCC and being the first to do so,and retireng "UNDEFEATED" and never lost a race.and retiring being the first richest NA filly of all time, Yes, I say, who wouldn't want to have her foals, and I am not going to keep going to bat with these young people on here, They don't see the world yet as us older ones do , their generation is totally different than ours, so youngin's you can talk sarcastically all you want to , I know most is young, because they have no emotion when they talk, because thats just how the younger generation is. they're just young. Zenyatta is so worldly wide known now, and she has made history this year, I had to look up who won HOTY in 07, see, it don't matter, its not remembered like, being the first to filly to win the Breeder's Cup Classic, and being the richest filly and to have both classics under her and done it all and never got defeated. No, she don't need the statue, and Jerry and Annie aren't losing any sleep over it, they love her so much, and I know she will be well cared for in her retirement. Annie cried every time she won her races, now thats a whole lot of heart and love. RA will be in my prayers next year,because the world will watch to see if she can be as good or meet the campaign she will need, she has got to try and keep up with Zen now, the world will be watching,then she also has more competiton out there that may be better than her. Give RA the award for HOTY, she needs it in case her next year don't pan out so well, Zen don't have to prove anything to anyone ever again, It's up to RA too now.

carolyn rogers 19 Nov 2009 5:04 AM

Karen 2,

      When I say extremists, I mean the people who think it's ok to belittle, berate, or slight, the owner, trainer, horse or supporter for their opinion or whatever they are insulting to try and get a point across. I really don't mind healthy debates, I actually love a good debate, but some, no most of the comments I read now border on flat out evil, stupid, or crazy. You by the way are not one of them, I enjoy your posts. I really don't care if you have a favorite, I do, big whoop, and I don't care if you think that horse is better and come on here with facts to back it up, just don't get in my face about it. If you look back at my post, did I slight anyone, infact, I haven't gotten into a huge battle, well excuse me I've gotten into one battle maybe, since the Breeders Cup. I don't care if you try to make a case for HOTY (you won't change my opinion), but really, I don't care. I don't like the downright stupidity and evilness displayed. It's wrong and flat out needs to stop.

LDP 19 Nov 2009 6:02 AM

rhoward, "gutless jackson" is the one who brought Rachel to the dance!! Otherwise she would have been a "filly races only"...good grief.

da3hoss 19 Nov 2009 7:41 AM

zenyatta wins ONE decent race in 2009 and cannot be horse of the year on one race just as all europeans are lambasted for claiming divisional turf awards on one bc start and win every year!!Sheriffs had zen in cd derby week an scratched due to conditions , fair enough . But why go back out west to face the same cali foes as last year and not stay east for the top distaff races like the fleur de lis, ogden phipps, delaware, go for wand, personal ensign, ruffian and beldame????????????? Then she would get far more respect than always talking about the one and only time she ran on dirt at oaklawn last year, one run is never conclusive !! She should have faced ginger punch and music note on proper dirt at saratoga or belmont last year and she would have had that respect and most probably last years horse of the year! her 2009 campaign is a regression when you take out the one race!!

james 19 Nov 2009 8:08 AM

carolyn rogers, Rachel, at age 3, already has a resume to rival Zenyatta (who I love equally but differently)

Zenyatta at age 2: did not run

Rachel at age 2: 6 3-2-0

Golden Rod Gr2 (STAKES RECORD)

Pocohontas Gr3

Allowance

MSW

Debutante Gr3 (second)

MSW (6th)

Zenyatta at age 3: 2 2-0-0

a maiden and an allowance

Rachel at age 3: 8 8-0-0 5 Grade 1

Martha Washington Stakes (STAKES RECORD)

Fair Grounds Oaks Gr2

Fantasy Stakes Gr2

Kentucky Oaks (LARGEST MARGIN)

Preakness (only horse to win from 13th post)

Mother Goose Stakes (FASTEST TIME, LARGEST MARGIN)

Haskell - in the mud was .21 off stakes record and posted highest Beyer (116)

Woodward Stakes- first filly ever to win

Rachel at age 4: To be Determined!!!!

Zenyatta at age 4: 7 7-0-0 4 Gr1

Grade 2 El Encino Stakes

Grade 1, Apple Blossom

Milady Handicap (Gr 2)

Vanity Handicap (Gr 1)

Clement L. Hirsch (Gr 2) (set new record)

Lady's Secret Stakes (Gr 1)

Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic (Gr 1)

Rachel at age 5: we can only dream

Zenyatta Age 5: 5 5-0-0 4 Gr1

Milady Handicap

Vanity Handicap

Clement L. Hirsch Handicap

Lady's Secret Stakes

Breeders Cup: first filly

Total Lifetime starts:

Zenyatta age 5: 14 14-0-0 (8 Grade 1) Best Beyer 112 BC Classic

Rachel age 3: 14 11-2-0 (5 Grade 1)

Best Beyer 116 Haskell

da3hoss 19 Nov 2009 8:21 AM

Aluminaut, you're right on that both horses careers were well managed...each camp did exactly what was right for their horse.

da3hoss 19 Nov 2009 8:23 AM

da3hoss- there were many issues as to why Zenyatta didn't race until she did.  Nerves, hives, bad temper, size.  They didn't rush her.  It is not a fair comparison at all.  In racing years Zenyatta has only been racing two years, basically.  And you know that you can't compare dirt Beyers to synthetic. Beyer doesn't know how to make a synthetic figure.  and even though Thoro-graph and Ragozin are better, they also admit that their numbers may not be accurate for synthetic.  Give RA HOY, but just be fair.  

Footlick 19 Nov 2009 9:41 AM

There is "us" (Zenyatta) and there is "them" (Rachel Alexandra).

A civil war between the west and the east.

 

Cilvil War 19 Nov 2009 9:46 AM

daa3hoss, quit making accusations, I meant after her two years of racing, I am aware that Zen didn't start racing until age 4, Zen has raced for two years and if you and I live on the same planet then we both know RA will race again next year, Right!! that will be two years or seasons

Right!! I already told you, RA can have the award, Zen don't need it. Instead of argueing on blogs about it, you all better hope RA can stay on top of her game next season, Like Zen has. RA for HOTY, please, please vote for RA. RA has my blessings, I have nothing against the horse , I love the horse herself. I have a heart.  

carolyn rogers 19 Nov 2009 10:18 AM

Who cares? You should. And anyone else who even remotely earns a living from horse racing. Both Rachel and Zenyatta have stepped up to the gate and been gloriously spectacular at the exact moment when the racing world was watching. That's what brings new fans into this sport. Be thankful so many people care. It will help keep the sport of racing going.

Now, who's better? Well that's apples and oranges.

You're absolutely right...the horses don't know what is being debated. All the more reason to just reward this unique moment and award them both.

After all, who cares?

KJY 19 Nov 2009 10:22 AM

LDP,

     I agree!  The put downs and nonsense about both these Champions and their connections are just plain ignorant evil comments that are getting to be comical!  They usually are written by the same people, over and over, At this point, I just skip over them, Not even worth reading or responding to...

Greg J. 19 Nov 2009 10:23 AM

AFLEETALEXFOREVER

You state that you try to be "objective",that's a joke! First,Zenyatta's connections felt the need to scratch her cause of an off track. Second,it's clear that Jackson pointed RA to the type of races he did because he felt she would do enough in the summer to avoid the Breeders'. Unlike you and others' that slammed Zenyatta and connections at will,I've NEVER RAISED THE ISSUE of Jackson not running RA in the Breeders'. In fact I've defended him on his decision not to. Almost every post you've made here and NTRA you have slammed Zenyatta,etc.  I've been on her from the very beginning two yrs. ago. If she had won on a dirt track two weeks ago you and others' would have found a spin to attempt to excuse her greatness,it's that simple!

Mike Relva 19 Nov 2009 10:34 AM

CARLOS IN CA

Very funny,not!!!!!!!!!

Mike Relva 19 Nov 2009 10:36 AM

KJY: Why dont we just give co-awards to all the champion horses from now on. This way, we can make everyone happy.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 10:47 AM

Jason,

Obviously we can't. That would forever change the awards - and they don't need to be changed. I just think that sometimes you need to recognize when something special has happened. And something special has happened this year.

Personally I hope there is a tie.

By the way...if I voted - and I don't - it would be Rachel, I think. Nope, Zenyatta. Then again.

KJY 19 Nov 2009 11:08 AM

This HOY vote is not about the filly and mare.

This HOY vote is about dirt and synthetics.

Sadly, the voters (DRF, NTRA and NTWA) will hold Zenyatta accountable.

Zenyatta has a target on her back. She will be punished come January 18, 2010.

The east will do "WHATEVER IT TAKES" to make sure that dirt tracks stay "dirt" tracks.

Zenyatta does not have a chance for HOY. It's unfair but that's the way the east sees it. If they give HOY to Zenyatta, then they are telling dirt tracks (across the nation) one thing:

"They buy into the notion of synthetic surfaces"

This sadly my friends is what it all comes down to.

The east will tell you different, but believe me,  the distain that most of the east coast has for synthetic racing is much more than you think.

No horse out west will win HOY. No horse!

-East Coast Racetrack Groom

East Coast Racetrack Groom 19 Nov 2009 11:28 AM

East Coast Racetrack Groom,

I agree and the sad part about all of this:

The east doesn't get it. They think "keeping their dirt tracks" will save the sport.

When in reality, a champion showed up at the Breeders Cup and ran in the biggest race on the card and made race fans out of people who were never interested in horse racing.

Go figure!

Anyway, if Zenyatta is not HOY, the sport will suffer. The non-racing fan that was a part of the Breeders Cup will turn away and won't come back (which is good in the eyes of alot of easterners). They could care a less about new people in the sport.

The "dirt" track is all they care about.

Travers 19 Nov 2009 11:59 AM

If Zenyatta is not HOY the sport will suffer? Oh please. I hope you really don't believe that.

Trust me, the announcement of HOY will not have an effect on racing in grand scheme of things, nomatter who wins. Do you think the average sports fan even knows what an Eclipse Award is? There answer is no.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 12:04 PM

Know what I would like to see? The Fatheads people having photos of our favorite horses on magnets the way they have football helmets etc. Who wouldn't want a Rachel or a Zenyatta or a Mine That Bird on the side of their car, or on their wall at home?

Would some sort of agreement with the Fatheads people be possible, with proceeds from the sales of these images going to worthy charities? Or am I making too much sense?

Dawn 19 Nov 2009 12:06 PM

Yes, the awards and the passion around awards are a human thing. Certainly all of the racing GREATS who occupy our hearts and the pages of history have just been looking for their next bucket of oats and some caring attention. Yet, the significance we give the awards is because WE, the privileged viewer, experience rare and great "moments" in horseracing that drop our jaw, open our eyes, take our breath away, and leave us either speechless or screaming...and in tears. It’s because of these moments, when we know, we just KNOW, we are witnessing greatness, that we care about who is recognized and honored throughout history and time by this award.  I believe the big question is this:  when books are written about this year; when documentaries and movies are made about this awesome history breaking filly/mare duo, and they will be made…how is the story going to end?  Is this industry going to represent itself as mired so deeply in tradition that their limited foresight blinded their hindsight by giving only one of these horses a place in the Eclipse HOY award history book?  Or, will the industry genuinely see and acknowledge that this has been “the only time in history” that a filly/mare duo like this has reached so far, accomplished so much beyond what has EVER been done before, and consistently left us all standing in awe as we KNEW we had just witnessed greatness.  How this story ends will directly reflect on the industry.  All the endless passionate pleas for 2 HOY awards will be a major part of the body of the story.  Will this story be one that inspires more people to care about this sport and this industry, or, will it be just another story that leaves a bitter taste in the viewer’s mouth, adds just a little more fuel to their already negative impressions of this sport, and leaves more people saying, “why should I care”?

WWSTP 19 Nov 2009 12:07 PM

Jason,

Travers is right.

Every voter's HOY vote will reflect how the industry is seen.

Conquistador Cielo 19 Nov 2009 12:23 PM

Jason, I'm a new fan (watched the Breeders Cup at home for the first time) and I know what Horse of the Year is.

Frank 19 Nov 2009 12:28 PM

I think we may have to convince the Owners of Zen to give her a second career in the dressage ring with all those dance moves. Think of it right training, right rider, could be hello Olympic Games. Now that would be something to see. Just for fun hate to see her be just a broodmare with so much potential we haven't seen.

Rowner 19 Nov 2009 12:29 PM

The HOTY controversy is the result of the terrible decisions by California changing their tracks to synthetic and the Breeders Cup people scheduling the BC races there TWO years in a row.

Until they come to their senses and change those tracks back to natural dirt, California does not represent true American dirt racing anymore. You can’t hold the championships for DIRT horses on a surface that is more like turf racing than anything else. That's why our best turf horses and European horses entered the BC Classic the past two years. That's nonsense. The dirt track runners are at a total disadvantage as they were the past two years. More and more trainers will skip the BC Races as long as they schedule them on synthetic tracks. Even most of the trainers in California hate it.

DIRT IS AMERICAN RACING..…has been since the very start of racing in this country. Dirt and grass...nothing else. Especially man made crap.

Rest assured it will be quite a while before DIRT championships are held on RUBBER again. I think the BC people realize the mistake they made.

And the day will come when the plastic, rubber, whatever, goes the way of Astroturf.

Time to rectify a terrible mistake, California. Those tracks are fouled.

And let's not forget the fatality scoreboard this past Summer:

Del Mar 14, Saratoga 1. On that "safe" Del Mar surface. I rest my case.

Saratoga AJ 19 Nov 2009 12:33 PM

Many reasons are given as to why Zenyatta should win this fight, and I agree with most of the reasoning, but feel some is less than rock solid.  By far the WORST reason to give HOY to Zenyatta is because RA is supposedly coming back to the track and can earn it next year.  This statement, about one of these fragile, unpredictable animals, is obviously silly.  

However, I understand the fans looking forward to next year. This summer, JJ not only said RA would not be competing at SA, he did say the 2010 BC was the plan for her.  That too is assuming a lot and now, months later, we have yet to see whether the plan comes together or not.

Afleet Alex, many people already don't care for Mr. Jackson, and you are doing him no favors by stating that he'll be "laughing" after getting the HOY statuette.  I would like to think he'd be a more gracious winner than that.

Pam S. 19 Nov 2009 12:34 PM

 When I say extremists, I mean the people who think it's ok to belittle, berate, or slight, the owner, trainer, horse or supporter for their opinion or whatever they are insulting to try and get a point across (i.e.draynay). I really don't mind healthy debates, I actually love a good debate, but some, no most of the comments I read now border on flat out evil, stupid, or crazy. You by the way are not one of them, I enjoy your posts. I really don't care if you have a favorite, I do, big whoop, and I don't care if you think that horse is better and come on here with facts to back it up, just don't get in my face about it. If you look back at my post, did I slight anyone, infact, I haven't gotten into a huge battle, well excuse me I've gotten into one battle maybe, since the Breeders Cup. I don't care if you try to make a case for HOTY (you won't change my opinion), but really, I don't care. I don't like the downright stupidity and evilness displayed (i.e. draynay). It's wrong and flat out needs to stop.

LDP 19 Nov 2009 6:02 AM

I couldn't agree more with you.

joe schmoe 19 Nov 2009 12:38 PM

Frank: You are in the minority.

Im not saying HOY isnt important, but to insinuate that naming a co-HOY so as to not ruffle any feathers on the other side will "save the sport," is crazy. Off the top of my head, I can name 20 more important dilemmas we face than HOY voting. How about we fix medication rules, decreasing handle, the problem of unwanted horses, having no governing body, etc., first?

C'mon people. Relax with this HOY thing. There are more important things to worry about.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 12:39 PM

Bottom line RA went to 4 different tracks and waxed the boys. Zenyetta never left santa anita. Its like getting 16 home games a year in football and never going on the road. RA gets HOY hands down!

It aint easy being good! 19 Nov 2009 12:50 PM

No offense LDP... I Just thought your post was funny. You said you were tired of all the ridiculous back and forth towards either horse then you went right into your case why RA should be HOY. That is what continues to bring about the back and forth towards these horses.

People are passionate about both these horses for different reasons and both sides are just as right as the other side. There are no "facts" that make one horse better than the other. They have never met on the track so therefore the arguments are opinions and how a person feels about the horse, the competition and the campaign's they have run.

Karen2 19 Nov 2009 12:56 PM

If Zen can win at the Classic Distance-there really aren't very many horses who can go 10 furlongs in 2:00:2-name any mare that can run that fast on plastic or dirt-name one if you can in history-i dont know history-no turf runners please

steve s 19 Nov 2009 12:57 PM

Jason,

   Thank You!  Can you imagine if all this "Passion" was put towards the real issues that are pertinent to fixing this Sport?  One can only imagine...

Greg J. 19 Nov 2009 1:38 PM

MANY tracks run on rubber bands now--it's called change, and change is always happening--they don;t run the JC Gold Cup a two miles anymore, or The Woodward at 1 1/2, or even 1 1/4 now---that is also change! To say you cannot anoint a HOY who ran exclusively on synthetic tracks is absurd! The sky would not fall if they gave it to Zenyatta! Twenty years from now it'l be clear as crystal Zenyatta was victim of the Easty Coast Bias! Heck, Jess sandbagged everybody by waiting until the 11th hour to enter The Woodward--after the race, he's all like "we'd love to take on Zenyatta in the one turn Beldame"---so Team Zen gears up to go out there and it's a no-go from Jess! So Jess gets HOY for three years in a row, including last years hissy fit fold job by his (mismanaged) Curlin, a horse I also love....IRONIC how 1 1/4 stamina is now LESS important to the East Coast Crowd--ironic how the Fall races are now LESS important to the East Coast Crowd! Like I said, HOY is way more important--this time--to the West Coast lovers of racing! In the long run--no biggie! But the same should apply if Zen WINS HOY--no biggie, everybody will get over it....  

Matthew W 19 Nov 2009 2:04 PM

Question? Don't the West Coast (California) have their own HOTY awards, Dang, that means Zen will have a HOTY from the west and a champion older female from the east , and the east will defintily honor Zen in a big way for her accomplishments. !!!!WHOOPIE, ZENYATTA, YOU GO GIRL!!!

Phony JJ 19 Nov 2009 2:06 PM

steve s:

"10 furlongs in 2:00:2-name any mare that can run that fast on plastic or dirt-name one if you can in history"

Well, for starters:

1) Princess Rooney, 1984 BC Distaff

2) Light Light, 1991 Coaching Club American Oaks

Give me time and I'm sure I can find more.

Saratoga AJ 19 Nov 2009 2:21 PM

Matthew W  

I think we all are seeing where "change" is leading us in this country right now! LOL

You can have your phony California tracks. In fact, that's a good place for them. They are fouled. :)

I'll say it again, synthetic tracks will go the way of Astroturf eventually.

Saratoga AJ 19 Nov 2009 2:26 PM

Princess Rooney-2:02:2 thats 10 lengths slower than 2:00:2-do some better research SaraToga AJ-makes me wonder about Light Light

steve s 19 Nov 2009 2:45 PM

After reading all these comments (on this blog and others), my head is reeling...and no argument for or against these two horses has swayed my opinion. The title of Horse of the Year is out of my hands. I don't get to vote. It's as simple as that. However I know who MY HOY is. It's the mare who loves to race. It's the mare who wins for fun. It's the mare I enjoy the most. ZENYATTA THE MAGNIFICENT!!!

The people who get to vote will do whatever they want... I know who MY favorite horse is, HOY title or not.

If you like Rachel Alexandra or her accomplishments better, have at it. It does not upset me one bit. I know who my favorite horse is: BEAUTIFUL, JOYFUL, UNDEFEATED ZENYATTA!!!

Zookeeper 19 Nov 2009 3:25 PM

Jason,

You said it all.

I'm for eliminating the award altogether if it is being bestowed on the connections of the horse. Give each horse a basket of carrots, apples and peppermints and be sure to let the grooms dole them out. They are the ones I trust.

I LOVE both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra and want THEM to be happy.

Rachel'salterego 19 Nov 2009 3:26 PM

steve s:

My mistake on the Princess...I double checked it out. Need new glasses! :)

But Light Light did it, beating, among others Meadow Star.

Saratoga AJ 19 Nov 2009 3:50 PM

Jason,

Are you sure your not three people? You, Draynay and Saratoga AJ sound quite similiar.

Do you just like to post (as all three) to get your blog going?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

John 19 Nov 2009 3:55 PM

Yeah John, you got me. Darn, I thought I was getting over on you guys, but you're on to me now.

In fact, out of the 850+ comments on the Humble Pie blog, 792 were actually me writing in under different names.

Thanks for confirming what I wrote about on THIS blog. It enables people to have a little insight into what I am dealing with here.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 4:00 PM

The first of many that will be collected by these connections:

www.bloodhorse.com/.../team-zenyatta-wins-big-sport-of-turfdom

Cryptoclearance 19 Nov 2009 4:04 PM

Karen 2,

    There was no offense taken. My point is NOT about back and forth, I love a good healthy debate. It is about the malicious insults flung to whomever they may hit. I've read some crazy crazy stuff, and downright disrepectful things about the horse, connections or bloggers. I say what I really think, not to just flat insult people, that is rude and uncalled for. In a presidential debate, the candidates go back and forth, but I don't here either saying that the other is conspiring against them or is a phony. They are have a good healthy debate about what they believe. I will always share my opinions, and I expect other to do the same, but not by throwing around vicious statements that only mean to hurt.

LDP 19 Nov 2009 4:37 PM

God help the east coast writers if their biased, because there will be hell to pay.

War Admiral 19 Nov 2009 5:07 PM

IT AIN'T EASY BEING GOOD

BTW your name should be "it's easy being wrong". I recall on different times in the past month you posted that Zenyatta had no chance to win in the Breeders'. Way to go,you nailed that one didn't you? lol

Mike Relva 19 Nov 2009 5:12 PM

carolyn rogers:

How disappointing that you need to simulate the death of a horse you claim to love in order to prove your point.

If something happened to Zenyatta (luckily nothing did), no, I wouldn't have felt bad that she didn't get Horse of the Year in 2008. Last year, nobody was voting for Curlin based on the logic that he wouldn't get another chance and Zenyatta would, seeing as Curlin had already won the award in 2007. He won because he had the more challenging season.

Carolyn, since the BC ended, all you have done is say that Jesse Jackson is a coward and is going to pay off the voters to win HOTY. Tell me this, why didn't Zenyatta run in the Santa Anita Handicap? the Hollywood Gold Cup? the Pacific Classic? the Goodwood? Did these races suddenly move outside of California far away from the site of the Breeder's Cup, so it would be unreasonable to ship Zenyatta out of the state? Did they not want to risk her on an unfamiliar track that I'm not aware of? I'd really like to know if I missed something.

One fact that I feel hasn't been stated clearly is that beginning with the Kentucky Oaks, the ONLY horse that Rachel faced more than once was Papa Clem. Meanwhile, Zenyatta faced Life is Sweet three times and six other mares twice. You call that taking risks?

I'm not trying to insult Zenyatta, she's a really great horse that could have had the opportunity to be incredible but wasn't given the chance. I just don't think it's fair to call out Mr. Jackson when the whole point of Rachel's campaign was to find challenges on a DIRT track, while the point of Zenyatta's until the Classic was to stay unbeaten.

funnycideoflife 19 Nov 2009 6:00 PM

Jason,

I can count the number of people on this blog with any sense whatsoever on one hand, and you're one of them, so I'm not really sure what to do about the rest of the bloggers who make it their mission to degrade the accomplishments of the "other" horse.

funnycideoflife 19 Nov 2009 6:27 PM

Well, I thought I've read it all on these blogs but "Rachel Alexandra has an ugly head". Somebody needs to have their eyes examined. Every article I have read about Rachel, it is mentioned what a beautiful Filly she is. Some have even put it in otherwordly terms. I myself think she's gorgeous (as is Zenyatta). Next thing, we'll hear someone say that Secretariat was ugly, what with that distorted conformation and sickening red coloring. Ug, gives me nightmares!!!

Ida Lee 19 Nov 2009 6:34 PM

Dang Man, Ms.Zenyatta and company getting the big Turf award. The same award the great Secretariat's owner recieved and then some. I don't think she will need no East Coast biased HOTY, she will get her own from Cali, and all these other awards. "Wahoooooo" Yippie Yi Yay, She is getting her due REWARDS and AWARDS.

Phony JJ 19 Nov 2009 6:37 PM

Saratoga AJ you're preachin to the choir! But I say don't penalize the horses that achieve greatness on them--otherwise it's biased and nothing else...and it wasn't Team Zen who backed outta the Beldame! That was Jess's idea and he retreated....maybe--just maybe---Team Rachel might have mesmanaged her season? Was there any other time of the year they could've met? If they knew it would be Fall, why didn't they (Team Rachel) SAVE her for Fall?

Matthew W 19 Nov 2009 6:39 PM

Draynay's alter ego!...Does John know he just threw down??...and Crypro--good for them! (Shirreff's, Moss's, Mike)... Thats a pretty good team, no?...

Matthew W 19 Nov 2009 6:49 PM

LOL, Jason, It ain't no way you were able to write all them blogs yourself, If you did, man, you would be one hell of a writer, and you would probably be in the mental hospital too, suffering with brain overload, you say, It's hard enough reading them all, much less writing them all too. lol

carolyn rogers 19 Nov 2009 7:16 PM

Funnycide, the Beldame, they were coming and JJ backed out.

carolyn rogers 19 Nov 2009 7:19 PM

funnyCide, I told you all RA can have the award, Zen don't need it, she is already starting to get her awards, she don't need the east coast biased HOY, RA can have it ,it' hers. Please let it go. we don't want the award, Zen don't need it.

carolyn rogers 19 Nov 2009 7:23 PM

Oh my goodness on t.v. their voting who is the best cook Rachel Ray or Martha Stewart because Martha made a statement that Rachel was not a teacher like her. When does it end!!!

Rita 19 Nov 2009 7:44 PM

Win Willy should clearly be Horse of the Year.  No other horse should even be mentioned.

Ted from LA 19 Nov 2009 7:47 PM

Let see if I have this right:

Rachel Alexandra had the whip put to her 20 times and was all out to beat Macho Again.

Jerry and Ann Moss made arrangements to meet Rachel Alexandra in the Beldame and Jess Jackson retires her?

Is this correct?

Secretariat 19 Nov 2009 7:59 PM

Jason- you could become JayDray AJ and start another blog because you aren't busy enough!

Footlick 19 Nov 2009 8:03 PM

I dont believe that the Zenyatta camp was ever going to the Beldame, despite what is coming out now. If they were, why didnt they make it public to force JJ's hand? Heck, they waited until 4 days before the Classic to announce they were going in that race instead of the Ladies Classic. I dont buy it. I asked Mr. Moss 10 different times if they were pointing toward any East Coast race and he wouldnt answer.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 8:04 PM

Jason,

Talk to your buddy "Steve Haskin". He'll tell you all about how the "Beldame" went down.

In fact, I think he has it in one of his blogs.

You still want to vote for Jess Jackson's filly now?

Secretariat 19 Nov 2009 8:13 PM

Thank you Jason for your comments.  I agree with you on most of what you have written.  Like your dad, I am now of the opinion, "Who Cares?". My conclusion is that I could not choose between the two and really don't care about HOY.  Look at all the exciting races we watched this year.  You are correct in that Zenyatta did need to race out of her state.  I know it was planned but because of the weather she did not run.  On the other hand Rachel was not scratched from competition because of the condition of the track.  My take has been that one horse ran for a perfect record and the other ran to see how good she really is.  I doubt that when they go to the breeding shed that either one could produce a duplicate of themselves.  Some mares have come close and I firmly believe that if sound and wanting to continue racing neither should be retired before their time. Too many variables in genetics.  Thanks again for your comments.

Hawkeye 19 Nov 2009 8:20 PM

Jason,

...so your calling Jerry and Ann Moss liars, correct?

When I vote for "Horse of the Year", I want my facts straight.

Turf Writer 19 Nov 2009 8:20 PM

They were going to the Beldame ? I know a bold face lie when I hear one and anyone suggesting they were going to go to the Beldame if not for Rachel is a liar.  Mr. Moss there is nothing you can do to improve the year your horse had.  He had one great race and 4 races against 14 overmatched horses on a poly track in California.  You had ALL YEAR to do something out east and you did nothing.  5 year old horse and ZERO wins east of the Mississippi River.

Draynay 19 Nov 2009 8:22 PM

Secretariat, let me see if I have this right.  Rachel has 8 wins on dirt or turf this year and Zenyatta has NONE.  Name one horse in history who has won HOY without a win on dirt or turf ALL YEAR.

Draynay 19 Nov 2009 8:24 PM

The Mosses made the arrangements and pre-entered before the decision to run in the Woodward.  The Beldame was the proposed race for both to meet, and the Mosses made plans to ship for it. Obviously Music Note would have been in that field also.  Jess Jackson then decided to run in the Woodward, which is his right.  After the Woodward, they decided, and rightly so, to put her away for the year.  So the Mosses cancelled their plans, since the meeting wouldn't take place and that was the only reason they were shipping out East.

Footlick 19 Nov 2009 8:31 PM

Im not calling anyone a lair. But I never saw once where he said publicly that he was going to the Beldame. Show me where he said it.

BTW "Turf Writer," please identify yourself.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 8:37 PM

Here's an excerpt and the link from a blog I wrote on July 24 after my interview with Jerry Moss. he could not have been any clearer.

'Near the end of the interview, Moss said the two months between the Clement Hirsch and the Lady's Secret leaves room for another race. This is where they will likely do "something different" with her. What will it be? Well, it probably won't be out of California. Moss reiterated several times that they would prefer not to ship her out of state. When I mentioned the Oct. 3 Beldame at Belmont Park, a race that also might be enticing for Jackson, Moss said no. I think she is staying in California. But where?'

cs.bloodhorse.com/.../one-man-s-prediction-on-zenyatta-s-mysterious-path.aspx

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 8:45 PM

Footlick,

Wow...that changes my whole view about Jess Jackson.

Secretariat 19 Nov 2009 8:50 PM
Secretariat 19 Nov 2009 8:55 PM

Secretariat: The comments by Moss in that article mean little to me now. Nominating a horse to a race doesnt mean much. Again, he was asked several times by several different people, including myself, in the weeks leading up to the Beldame and he was clear that he wanted her to remain in Cali. It's all in black and white.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 8:59 PM

Jason,

Jess and Steve could lie and you would swear to it.

You should be their lawyer.

This story is an "eye opener" and it came out before Zenyatta ran them down in the Breeders Cup Classic.

Secretariat 19 Nov 2009 9:04 PM

Secretariat: MY story is the eye-opener. I asked the man in July what his plans were with her and he was clear. I dont care about any article that comes out months after that race. Again, Im not calling anyone a liar, but if Moss was going to the Beldame with his horse all he had to do is come out publicly and say it. He never did that. End of discussion on this matter.

jshandler 19 Nov 2009 9:06 PM

...so who is it, Jason? Is it the reporter (Art Wilson), John Shirreffs or  Mr. and Mrs. Jerome Moss that is lying?

...or could it be one of the best sales jobs that Jess has made and you bought into it?

Niatross 19 Nov 2009 9:10 PM

     Thirty Minutes after Zenyatta's Victory in the Clement Hirsch Stakes at Del Mar on Aug. 9, Mr. Shirreffs was asked if Zenyatta would travel east before the Breeder's Cup, His Response, "For what? What would be the purpose at this particular time, especially with the Breeders' Cup?,  That's what the thoroughbred industry did, they created a venue for the best horses in the country and the world now to come and race against one another."  Why would they have traveled to New York, Run, Then fly all the way back to California just five weeks prior to the Breeder's Cup? They had the Lady's Secret already at home and the perfect prep for the Breeder's Cup, Regardless if they were going in the Distaff or Classic, IMO, They honestly never could have considered going to the Beldame, Even with the extra incentive with the Purse increase by 400k by Betfair, And, Obviously the chance to race Rachel, It just doesn't make sense to me, Especially with her campaign this year, Doesn't add up, Not calling anyone a liar, Just don't think it was ever in their plans at all...

Greg J. 19 Nov 2009 9:34 PM

It shouldn't change anyone's view of anything.  They both have every right to do what they want.  Winning the Woodward was more historic.

Footlick 19 Nov 2009 9:37 PM

The connections of Zenyatta were pointing to the BC at the rubber track all year. There was no way they were going to Belmont Park in October. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

Besides, you never know, Belmont  could have come up sloppy like Churchill did in May. And everyone knows what that means. Zenyatta can't run on a wet track. Another wasted trip. :)

Saratoga AJ 19 Nov 2009 10:09 PM

I couldn't read all of these comments, but I am sure I have nothing new to add, however my opinion is simple. They are both great. While the Classic was the race of the year and we have finally learned just how great a mare Zenyatta is, it's a crying shame it's over. It looked to me like she has yet to peak. I absolutely love her and if some miracle occurred that she and Rachel were to meet, I think Zenyatta would win. However, Rachel Alexandra did much more on the race track this year. Blow outs with other fillies, three times facing males, first female Preakness winner in 80 some years, first 3 year old filly to ever win the Woodward against older males. Simply amazing. Amazing is also the word for Zenyatta's Classic, but the other 4 races she ran in were just some of the same races against females she ran in last year and all but one were run in slower times. Is Zenyatta the better horse? Perhaps, but she did not do the most on the race track this year.

secretariat7273 19 Nov 2009 10:26 PM

SARATOGA AJ

You stated "another wasted trip". Question,was that of consequence to you? I don't think so! Zenyatta's connections did what they wanted, THE SAME W/ RA WHEN THEY TOOK A PASS ON RUNNING HER IN THE BREEDERS'! It's about that simple!

Mike Relva 19 Nov 2009 10:30 PM

I don't see where it says that Zenyatta can't run on a wet track.......Maybe whoever is saying this is the same person that said that Rachel can't run on synthetics? I can't count the number of times where a horse, especially one that's been off for six months, be scratched from an offtrack (in this case a projected off track)......It's done all the time.......If the race would have been meaningful at the time, she would have run and she would have kicked butt.....Then again, maybe she was afraid of the awesome lineup that was waiting for her in that race.

LAZMANNICK 19 Nov 2009 10:39 PM

Here is my unbiased opinion about the two candidates for "Horse of the Year".

They are both deserving of the honor but Zenyatta wins hands down.

Neutral 20 Nov 2009 12:51 AM

Greg J:

Re-read the article. They entered Zenyatta in the Beldame and Steve and Jess moved over to the Woodward.

Your rationalizing their actions.

Citation 20 Nov 2009 1:16 AM

Wow, this is getting nasty.  I believe I read immediately after the Woodward (if only I had the patience to find the link...), that Jackson said Rachel was done for the season unless Zenyatta was coming out east for the Beldame.  I also agree that while the race was bantered about, there was never any gauntlet thrown down.  I certainly don't remember Sheriff or the Moss' saying they were coming to NY if only Rachel would run.  If they simply nominated and waited to see if she would run without communicating their intention, that doesn't really count.

I really hope they aren't perpetuating this story themselves.  They seemed like such classy people, and this rumor seems much more like a Jackson type of thing to do.

Emily 20 Nov 2009 3:59 AM

PS: (And I cannot believe I just commented twice in 5 minutes, but this intrigue is much more exciting then overly emotional tirades from either side about the merits of HOY.)  The same turf-writer who wrote the pre-BC article with a decidedly anti-Rachel slant (he's right in the comments, Sheriff's didn't accuse RA of ducking, the writer himself did), wrote this article Aug. 19th, before Jackson even decided to run in the Woodward.

www.insidesocal.com/.../a-rachel-zenyatta-matchup-in-b.html

Someone changed their tune...

Emily 20 Nov 2009 4:08 AM

BTW, to all of you who have forgotten that if it wasn't for JJ Rachel would only have run in filly races, I am making my "Rachel 1010" predictions (again).

As long as Rachel keeps her '09 form:

JJ will test her on the grass (like he did Curlin)

If she runs well he will aim her for a major European grass race. (like he contemplated to do if Curlin liked the grass)

If she has a year anything like this year, she will run in the Breeder's Cup Classic (on dirt)...and win.

da3hoss 20 Nov 2009 8:01 AM

Footlick

Although I always respect you opinions, in fact everything you have to say, I totally disagree that winning the Woodward was more historic than any filly or mare winning the Breeders Cup Classic.  It will be many, many, many years before we see a filly/mare win the Classic again, if we ever see it happen, and that's even if Rachel runs in it next year.......Zenyatta's victory truly was a feat for the ages......Winning the Woodward in most other years, especailly against the deep fileds that contested it years ago truly would have been historic, but winning it this year.....not so historic.  My fear is that this is another G-1 race that will turn into a weak glorified version of what it once was.  Hopefully in the years to come the race will get back some of its historic value, i.e. at least having proven G-1 winning males run in it.  Anyway anyone wants to slice it, it was one of the weaker route G-1 races on dirt this year. LOL

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 9:04 AM

HOY was announced. Sea The Stars wins hands down. Argue all you want between your piffy fillies, Sea The Stars would whip them both by 10.

euro 20 Nov 2009 10:00 AM

Team Zenyatta takes home what is the first of many awards that will culminate with Big Zen being crowned HOY. The Classic win itself eclipses any and all that RA managed to rack up against  lesser. Ra's never won a Br. Cup Classic and never will. Zeyatta will remain the lone Mare to win that race for many years to come. In fact I think Gio Ponti would deserve the award before RA, that makes her 3rd in my book.

gw_bushwacker 20 Nov 2009 10:06 AM

      Just read that Hal Wiggins is going to receive the Warner L. Jones Jr. Horseman of the Year Award for meritorious service to racing at the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners' annual awards dinner Saturday Night!  KTO president Lynn Harpring said "Wiggins' award is not just because of Rachel Alexandra, but it's like a lifetime achievement award. It's for all the little things he's done over the years, and the respect he's given and the esteem with which he's held in the thoroughbred industry."

    So, Congratulations Mr. Wiggins...

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 10:34 AM

Euro,

   The only comparision that can be linked with Sea the Stars and Zenyatta would have to be Rip Van Winkle, Correct?  Let's See, Sea the Stars beat Rip Van Winkle in the Coral Eclipse by 1 length, Right?  Now, Zenyatta beat Rip Van Winkle by 15 lengths? Right?,  Yes, I know, RIP was questionable with his known foot problems, But, I cannot come up with another common link for these two, And, Rip was in the race against Zenyatta, Still think Sea the Stars would beat Zenyatta by 10 lengths? I doubt it...

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 10:54 AM

Hey Laz- I didn't say it was more historic.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.  If the choice was to run in the Woodward, or wait for the Beldame, Jess Jackson chose the race that would make the more historical impact for Rachel Alexandra because he knows what an impact it would be.  I agree, and usually laugh when people bring up all the greats who have won the Woodward before, because it is a shadow of the race it once was.  But you see the reaction of the people on these blogs.  You know me better than that-LOL!   Zenyatta will forever be remembered as being undefeated, being the only winner of two different BC races, as of now, the first mare to win the BCC and the first undefeated winner of the BCC.  That's why I don't care if she gets HOY, because she will always have those accomplishments and that legacy.  Whatever else is said, nobody can take that away from her.  Her final mile split, and her last quarter are going to become more legendary as more people analyze the race.  But, I feel that Jackson made the right choice if he wanted impact.  She gutted out her win, showing her class because she was a very tired horse.  She was the first 3 yr old filly to ever win the Woodward.  You can't take that away from her.  It was a very smart move on Jackson's part.  I wouldn't have wanted to risk facing Zenyatta and Music Note with a tired filly.  It really wouldn't have been fair to her or them.  But, you know my answer as to which race I feel was more historical and a greater race!  LOL

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 11:03 AM

As far as next year- if everybody trains on, it should be quite a season with Rachel Alexandra, Summer Bird, Quality Road eic.  And who knows what 3 yr olds will emerge.  Do we know whether Music Note os retired?  I didn't hear.  Just wondering if they are going to run her next year.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 11:07 AM

Euro- with all due respect, Zenyatta would give him the race of his life.  I respect him, but I also think Zarkava would have given him the race of his life too.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 11:29 AM

Mike Relva

You're mixing apples and oranges...or grasping at straws.

Jackson said all along, since he bought her in May, she that under no circumstances would Alexandra the Great run on the synthetic garbage of California. Period. He didn't send her there and scratch her.

But if that's the best excuse you can give for Zen's connections scratching her from the Churchill Distaff in May, I understand. What else can you say? Grasp those straws!

Rest assured the voters will take note.

LAZMANNICK:

Apparently Shirriffs though so, or they would have let her run for all those Zenyatta fans who showed up to see her in May.

Personally, if they knew then what we know now, that Rachel Alexandra would become such a sensation, I think they never would have scratched her from that race. They thought it was a smooth  road to HOTY. They were very wrong.

Saratoga AJ 20 Nov 2009 11:30 AM

euro,

Sea the Stars never beat anyone by 10! From what I understand, that wasn't the horse's style, and that's from the rider and trainer themselves. Before the Irish Champion and ARC, they said he would probably never win big (and they were right). Why is it that we must proclaim the unproclaimable? Euro turfers are better than US dirt/synth horses? And you know that for certain? When you're arguing a point that can never be proven, it's best to remember that you can't be certain about anything. When it comes to arguing a possible ACTUAL MATCHUP, then flex the pipes. Even still, your betting dollar is the only way to truly cash in on such strong opinions.

rick 20 Nov 2009 11:53 AM

I have concluded that these awards are ridiculous anyway, so they ought not to matter.  In the NFL, they don't play the Super Bowl and then vote on "Team of the Year."  They play all season and do what they have to do to get to the championship event and, hopefully, win it.  It's as simple as that.  It's about the races, not a silly statue.

apajax6 20 Nov 2009 11:59 AM

EURO: Your STS ducked the Breeders and he is hiding right behind you.

LOL

charles 20 Nov 2009 12:02 PM

Rachel set more records this year then Zenyatta and Sea of Stars combined.

Draynay 20 Nov 2009 12:12 PM

EURO

If STS could have beaten Zenyatta,his CONNECTIONS SHOULD HAVE THROWN DOWN! I think STS is a superstar,but could he have won we will never know,will we?

Mike Relva 20 Nov 2009 12:17 PM

I must object to the repeated assertions that Rachel never would have taken on males had she not been sold to her current owner.

None of us knows that for a fact.  I am aware of the quotes attributed to the previous owner ("fillies should compete against fillies" but people HAVE been known to change their minds.  After another blowout win in the Acorn (Rachel's scheduled next race), who really knows what would have happened?  

Pam S. 20 Nov 2009 12:25 PM

Well, who really cares about HOTY? It’s all politics anyway, not the real test of greatness. Zenyatta if she retires tomorrow, she will be remembers long after HOTY is forgotten.

Rachel may be good but Rachel will never be one thing Zenyatta is right now, an Undefeated Champion.

Even if Rachel wins HOTY everyone will remember that when destiny called, Rachel did not answer. Sitting in the barn munching oats, hoping Zenyatta loses is no way to win HOTY.

The rest of her career there will be one question on everyone lips. “Could she have beaten Zenyatta?”.

Rachel had the chance to answer that question and she declined. Zenyatta too had a question to answer but she rose to the occasion and answered all questions about her greatness, on racing biggest day and in classical Zenyatta fashion.

HOTY would be nice for the connections but Zenyatta does not need it. Her greatness is unquestioned, she has already become legend.

jpsbman 20 Nov 2009 12:36 PM

You guys are HOT STUFF!.

Its not rocket science to see that Zenyatta beat the BEST Breeders Cup field in years to be the first Filly to win the breeders cup!. Rachel is a great horse but she ducked alot of races and she beat a group of Kentucky derby misfits that was depleted with injuries to the real good horses. Look at "mine that bird" 50-1 and has not won a race since the derby!!.. Give me a break, Zenyatta deserves the HOY and Zen put it all on the line including her undefeated streak. In plain english! Zenyatta is the #1 Horse in America...

ICEMAN99 20 Nov 2009 12:44 PM

euro,

maybe and maybe not.

draynay,

don't care about track records. Those tracks were juiced. Zenyatta would flat eat RA up in the stretch and blow by.

No matter how it shakes out Zeyatta was undefeated and RA will never have that claim. Sara Louise who whipped RA was so soundly beaten at the Breeders Cup it was pathetic. She had no chance at all in her race. If she had gone against Zenyatta in the Classic she would have been beaten by 20 lengths or more.

Prediction:

Ra will not go undefeated next year and will not win the Br. Cup Classic!! You heard it here first.

gw_bushwacker 20 Nov 2009 12:49 PM

If Zenyatta were a male with starting with the letter "C" we would not be having this discussion.  How many HOY's have finished undefeated?  She has won 14 straight races and has earned $5,474,580 including the Breeder's Cup Classic.  A Triple Crown win pails in comparison.  Just ask the last filly to win the Kentucky Derby.  RA is a great filly who will finish second in the HOY voting.  Time to crank her up for next year's Breeder's Cup Classic.

Householder 20 Nov 2009 12:55 PM

Saratoga AJ- do you really know how many champions have scratched out of a race in their careers?  It is a ridiculous arguement.  It seems another is grasping at straws.  Horses scratch all the time.  

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 12:55 PM

I've seen many horses get injured on sealed tracks.  If I were an owner, I'm not sure I'd ever run on them.  I'd rather run on full-on mud.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 1:05 PM

We care about Horse of the Year because it's more important to us than Time's Man of the Year -- who is typically someone we can't give our hearts to or cheer for.

What a time for the horses!!!! Curlin goes over $10 million. Zarkava becomes the first 3 year old filly to win the Arc wince 1982 and the first from gate 1 sinece 1964.

Rachel Alexandra eats up track records like they were hay. Zenyatta becomes the first mare to beat the boys in the Classic in the worst trip of her career. What freaking speed and power!!!!

Nick Luck, that dirty, filty Euro guy, was right: Sherriffs did a great job keeping a huge horse like Zenyatta in sound.

I'm sorry for you Sea The Stars haters, you missed the Best Show on Turf. He reminds me so much of Citation -- just win baby -- but with all the speed and the gears.

Too bad so many of year hated this special time instead of enjoyed it.

Jim P 20 Nov 2009 1:05 PM

gw_bushwacker- I can't predict the future, so I won't go that far.  But any track on big race days is tight as a freeway.  I saw the two WR miles set at Arlington Park.  When Dr Fager set the second WR, it rained.  But the track was sealed so tight there could have been a hurricane and it still would not have soaked it.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 1:14 PM

Skipping quickly to the bottom of these comments, it seems to have devolved into the same BS that has been prevalent for most of the season.  I believe the question Jason asked was "Why do we care?" Obviously we are crazed racing fans to begin with.

I don't understand, even with all the passion we feel, why we need to denigrate one horse in favour of the other. Let's face it kids, they are both terrific, they will never meet on the track, and we are left to ponder which utterly fantastic filly/mare would prevail. There have been lots of reasons given for their not meeting, and I think a really valid one is that Rachel is 3 and Zenyatta is 5.  There were many races that could never have been, as Zenyatta didn't meet the criteria. Okay, so be it.  Rachel's owner does not like synthetic tracks (even though she romped at Keeneland).  Okay, so be it.  

The reason we care so much is that we were treated to absolutely fantastic racing from both of these horses.  Zenyatta's incredible persona, the dancing, posing, and the ease with which she wins is pretty fun to watch. She always seems to do just what is necessary to win. Rachel's wild eyed "must win by daylight" approach is pretty impressive also.  And so, Jason, that's why we care!  Thanks for such good blogs.  Personally, I'm a Z fan.....

Goldie 20 Nov 2009 1:19 PM

Jason, that's really a small minded outlook saying that the horses won't care or won't know who won HOY from someone who write's for a thoroughbred racing publication. Just because as you say " you don't get it" doesn't mean the debate and passion shown by the fan's about this isn't good for racing. It show's interest in the sport. And how do you know whether or not Rachel or Zenyatta won't know they've won HOY? Are you God? Zenyatta, watching her on the track at the end of a race, doing her little dance, and pawing the ground before, certainly seems to understand that she's won a race. So why not HOY?

John Horton, Jr. 20 Nov 2009 1:34 PM

I disagree with you.  I believe it was decided on the race track.  It just happens that the one you would vote for did not show up to race in the championship.  They are both great but since they never met in a race I believe the championship race determines the winner of HOY.

Bak 20 Nov 2009 1:43 PM

John: If you really believe that horses have the ability to understand whether or not they win an ECLIPSE AWARD, I really cant help you. I am not qualified.

jshandler 20 Nov 2009 1:58 PM

John Horton, Jr.,

    Seriously?  I love all animals, BUT, You really cannot be serious?  Question, If you offered Rachel and Zenyatta a choice between a Carrot, Mint or The Ecipse Award for HOY, What do you think they would choose?  If you said the Award, Well, More Power to you...

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 2:08 PM

gw bushwaker, let me clue you and others in on something.  California is hardly the hot bed for racing and with no wins at Belmont, Churchill, or Saratoga in the grand scheme of things Zenyatta is NEVER going to be seen as anything more then a poly specialist who never beat males on dirt.  Our racing history is 170 years old racing on dirt.  Rachel's accomplishments at 3 are unmatched by any filly in 170 years.  Compare that to our 5 year history of poly tracks ? Are you serious ?  With no wins on dirt or turf for Zenyatta this year its hard to take her campaign seriously.

Draynay 20 Nov 2009 2:14 PM

Off Subject a little,

    Just watched one of my very early Derby Favorites, "Winslow Homer" at Philly Park, Race #5, He won under a hand ride by 20 lengths! I am telling you,  Watch this guy!, Trained by Tony Dutrow(Fox Hill Farms)...

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 2:15 PM

Jason,

 Knowing that you have to actually read and moniter all of these post makes me cringe. You should ask for a raise immediately.

longwaytomay 20 Nov 2009 2:18 PM

leave John alone, didn't you guys know that it was Eclipse himself who created the award?

rick 20 Nov 2009 2:25 PM

Longway: lol. You want me bosses email?

jshandler 20 Nov 2009 2:31 PM

Jason, Doesn't California have their own HOTY awards. I know I read last year that Zenyatta had won a HOTY from California, and you're right, Jason, Zenyatta will always be remembered in a truimphant way, with or without the east coast HOTY, I am a Zenyatta fan til the end, and to me I think no other filly stands up to her, thats my partiality, RA fans have theirs. Zen is already getting awarded for her excellence.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 2:42 PM

Dray, why do you  keep putting Zen down. She has ran on dirt,and won, they just kept her in Cali, and all the tracks out there are not the same. Mr. Moss was not chasing a HOTY award,like the geezer JJ, If the Mosses were chasing a HOTY award, don't you think for one moment that he would have shipped Zen all over the place. I think Annie and Mr. Moss love Zenyatta so much that they loved her more than a HOTY award, unlike the geezer that had to make a name for himself and to keep his ego boosted. Anyone that buys a horse in the middle of a year, and puts her thru these races,and takes credit for training her although, he can't get the credit for that, Mr. Wiggins gets that credit, now this is a person that is looking out for his ego boost. I'm sorry to dissapoint, but I respect the Mosses more because they love Zenyatta more than an HOTY award. My goodness, everytime Zen won, Annie cried, thats love and admiration for her horse. I never seen geezer shed a tear for RA or Curlin.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 2:54 PM

The Woodward is 1 1/8 now....history be damned! It's not the same race, c'mon! Don't embellish! And quit gripping, Dray, HOY is in the bag, it was over in Summer, they had them with "we're not going"!!....I'm stuck with rubber bands out here, gonna play some races tonight at Holly--best card offered out here since the Cup!...here are my picks tonight, I hope to perform a minor cashectomy tonight!

Race 2 #3 Sheza Screamer (3-1) W/P

Race 3 #5 Reba Is Tops (5/2) W/P

Race 4 #7 Captivating Lyrics (4-1)

W/P

Race 7 #3 Precious Union (4-1) W/P/S

Race 8 #6 Daily Suds (12-1) W/P/S

.....hope ta just sit back, with a $1 cold one, or three,..on a Fri night...with a good card(finally!)...and hopefully my guys are live and I'll have some fun!...that's what it's all about!

Matthew W 20 Nov 2009 2:57 PM

Footlick--AMEN! If we;re gonna trash rubber band tracks, and why not, A POX on sealed tracks! WAY worse for racing than synthetics, they take away the cushion! Sealed tracks are the ugly head of "not caring"! At least they TRIED with the rubber bands--heck, they have field turf made of the same stuff and most football is played on the stuff now! But I'm all for losing them,....

Matthew W 20 Nov 2009 3:01 PM

Well said, Jason, well said.  Although I am in support of Zenyatta winning HOY honors, your well-addressed points about Rachel's accomplishments have reminded me that she is worthy of the award as well.  When people get their hearts tied up in that one horse -- and it's happened to me, too -- they seem to completely disregard any evidence that supports a different opinion.  Whether it's politics or horseracing, I find it refreshing to read the opinion of the other side.  Kudos, Jason.

Sarava 20 Nov 2009 3:05 PM

I think they should of called the "Breeders Cup Classic" the "Zenyatta Invitational".

I think racing officials got the weight assignments mixed up.

They should of gave Zenyatta 129 to 130 pounds and gave her opposition 126 pounds.

She made 'em look like "fools"!

That mare just started lengthening her stride when she hit the wire.

It's absolutely frightening. She looks like a mile and a half or a mile and three quarter horse.

Northern Dancer 20 Nov 2009 3:06 PM

Who did Rachel Alexandra beat?

She beat Macho Again and that Kentucky Derby fluke (Mine That Bird) by 1 length in the Preakness. Mine that Bird reminds me of 2005 Kentucky Derby Winner (Giacomo). The worst Kentucky Derby colt in 40 years. Did Mine That Bird lose to “Soul Warrior” and “Big Drama” in the West Virginia Derby?

Who are these horses “Soul Warrior and “Big Drama”?

Did rachel Alexandra beat any “quality” this year?

Rachel Aleaxandra was “all-out” to beat Macho Again. She had the whip put to her 20 times to get the job done. Where was Macho Again in the Breeders Cup Classic?

Who is Rachel Alexandra? 20 Nov 2009 3:14 PM

Jason, if you get paid by the comment, you're doing well this week :)  I think anyone who follows racing has been extremely fortunate to have been able to watch a great mare and a great filly compete so beautifully this year, even if it wasn't with each other.  I think Jackson did the right thing for his filly.  She had a tough year, she's three, and was ready for a break when he decided she was done for the year.  Had he decided to send her to the BC and she didn't do well, or was injured, because she was tired, we would all have blamed him for putting too much pressure on a three year old filly.  By the same token, had Moss run his mare in the mud and she was injured or didn't do well, we would have blamed him for running her in mud.  I'm thrilled both of them finished their year healthy, successful, and full of promise.  Both of them gave us many thrilling moments over the course of the year, and frankly, that's enough for me.  I could watch any race, or every race, either of them ran this year, and be ecstatic.

Oldie 20 Nov 2009 3:16 PM

It is comical to see the debate denigrating the sythentic surfaces at racetracks. It was done albeit still not proven, to reduce the injuries to the horses. The statics so far indicate this to be true with the exception of hind end stresses. If the major injuries have been reduced to mostly one type of problem, then it must be something to it. What we as a nation see on the racetracks via television are the upper echelons of the racing world's premiere events. I dare say that most of the (and it could be all) castrosphic injuries to horses on the racetrack witnessed by the television audiences have been at dirt tracks. There have been George Washington, Eight Belles, Barbaro, Ruffian, to name the more notables. It is also noted, that for the exception of Musket Man in the Kentucky Derby, the horses that finished in the money were "Synthetic" horses. Most of outside sport venues have some type of artifical surfaces, mostly predicated by regional weather conditions. The synthetics were created at racetracks for safety of the horse. In my opinion, the better horse can race on all surfaces. The most they have time to train on the surface, the better. Also in my opinion, the horses racing on artificial surfaces hind ends become more developed. Hence, the hind end stress injuries. The injuries of the horses not seen on television are the lower classes of horses mostly returning from some type of infirmary. The future of horseracing will not depend on the surfaces, but will depend on the versatility of the horse. Now as far as the debate for HOY, I am a Zenyatta fan and think she deserves the honor. My key for both horses is, who did they beat and what did the beaten horses do afterwards.

TexSpect 20 Nov 2009 3:33 PM

Hey Footlick:

Just jibing you to get a reaction from a certain someone else.  I know what your real take is on the entire scenario.  LOL and have a good one.

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 3:34 PM

Footlicks:

"Horses scratch all the time".  

Oh really.

Not when they travel clear across the country and are supposedly one of the greats. Unless there is an injury, they don't scratch. Injury or fear they can't handle the slop. And she wasn't injured.

The real great ones run on any dirt track condition, wet, sealed, fast or in between. Just like....well I'll be...just like Alexandra the Great did in 5 states, on 8 tracks! She answered the call to the post regardless of track condition. Zentatta did not.

And no matter how you try to spin an excuse, you can't change facts.

The straws are all gone!

Saratoga AJ 20 Nov 2009 3:38 PM

SSaratoga

When they scratched her from that race, at the time the track was soupy.  It dried out really quick and was rated fast most of the afternoon.....I think that if they knew that they would have run......Also, Rachel had not exactly stamped herself as a filly with potential for HOY until the Oaks.  That was the race that showed that she really was capable of the great season she had with HOY possibilities.  All things being equal, I agree that if the Moss's thought that running Zen was improtant for HOY at that point they diefinitely would have run......LOL

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 3:40 PM

ICEMAN99  I agree with your "depleted" scenario.  I think one of the better Preakness horses POTN (second in the Derby) had already ran 8-9 times and he was hurt.  He never ran again.

Householder 20 Nov 2009 3:48 PM

Northern Dancer- I agree 100%.  

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 3:51 PM

JIM P

Rachel Alexandra eats up track records like they were hay.  LOL.  She must be pretty hungry because she never set any track records......I think you mean race records.

Putting it in that context, Zenyatta set the biggest race records of the year.....THE FASTEST TIME EVER FOR A MARE IN A BREEDERS CUP CLASSIC RACE.....AND THE LARGEST MARGIN OF VICTORY EVER FOR A MARE IN A BREEDERS CUP CLASSIC RACE.......AND THE ONLY HORSE EVER TO WIN TWO DIFFERENT BREEDERS CUP RACES (DISTANCE AND COMPETITION).....THE LARGEST COMBINED (MARGIN OF VICTORY) BY A WINNER OF TWO DIFFERENT BREEDERS CUP RACES AT DIFFERENT DISTANCES, ETC. AND ETC.......SOUNDS KIND OF RIDICULOUS DOESN'T.

Anyway just joking.....I know you have an unbiased opinion...Have a good one.

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 3:52 PM

For 47K, race #3 tonight at Holly has a strong fivesome! Reba Is Tops is a very nice Washington Bred! Clement's closer from NY is in tough vs Reba, and Talamo, the speed horse and the speed jock....

Matthew W 20 Nov 2009 3:56 PM

Off the subject.

Matthew W

Do you have any picks for Saturday's Card?

tcc 20 Nov 2009 4:01 PM

Rachel had a better year. End Of Story!! I could care less who wins, they are both great fillies. I will respond again when we start talking about a more relevant subject, b/c nothing we type, say, or do is going to change the outcome b/c none of us have a vote.... Just hit a 925.00 tri at CD  

Billy's Empire 20 Nov 2009 4:09 PM

To all who are demanding that Zenyatta get Horse of the Year.

I have something to add to the conversations.  Be careful what you wish for you just may get it.

If Zenyatta wins the horse of the year it will be detrimental to the horse racing industry, it will set a precedence that will affect the way the super horses are run.  

I agree that Zenyatta is wonderful and everyone would have loved to see her race live.  Unfortunately her trainer and or owners kept her mostly in California, where mostly Californians got to see her run.  Television just does not do horses justice.  I like to see them up close and personal.  

So if she wins the horse of the year it is basically telling all trainers and owners that it is ok to stay in one area to race, and only race half the year, in relatively safe races, then race in the Breeders Cup Classic and wham, you win horse of the year.

Superstars are horses that race at different tracks where the fans get to see them run.  Please don’t wish that away from us hard core racing fans.

So please be careful what you wish for.  You may never get a superstar in California again.  

Linda 20 Nov 2009 4:21 PM

Sigh...

It looks like the only way to solve this is with a Rock-Paper-Scissors faceoff.

I don't envy the people who do have to choose A horse of the year.

Dawn 20 Nov 2009 4:35 PM

No horse ran better on a poly track this year in California then Zenyatta did.  She was by far the best California poly horse this year.

Draynay 20 Nov 2009 4:50 PM

Billy- Congrats!!!!! And I agree.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 4:55 PM

My vote is for Zenyatta. Both horses are wonderful, but Lady Z won 14 straight and in a most convincing style. Rachel can have her shot next year, if there is a next year for her (racing-wise, that is).

Lola 20 Nov 2009 4:56 PM

Saratoga- I'm not going to fuel your venom.  Horses never scratch when they ship.  I'm sure you know best.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 4:57 PM

SARATOGA AJ

Here we go again with your-------east coast junk. It's not within you to be objective! It boils down to  RA's connections did what they felt was best,by skipping the Breeders' and Zenyatta's connections did the same for their horse. I've defended Jackson MANY TIMES FOR HIS DECISION FOR NOT SHOWING UP FOR THE BREEDERS'. But,it's the super bowl of racing in my book! As far as Zenyatta's connections scratching,THAT WAS THEIR DECISION NOT YOURS. As far as I can guess you don't have a dime invested in her and it's really no consequence to you,period! Because of your bias,you and others' would spin if Zenyatta had won Breeders' from back east on dirt even. You know you would,I know it,also. All I know is after the race,Simon Bray,whom I'm sure you know helped manage the great Cigar,stated Zenyatta is one of the greatest,male or female he's encountered. Guess your knowledge far out classes his,right?

Mike Relva 20 Nov 2009 5:05 PM

There's nothing more/new for me to add to this topic other than what I've been saying since June/July...So,Jason,I'd suggest you put some Ky.Derby futures 'moo-lah' on Macias b4 he CRUSHES on Saturday in the Hollywood Prevue.He's special.I'm in.Transfer your Monba,er..Interactif cash into Macia's piggy bank. Or,cancel the bet & treat the Fam-clan to a nice chicken dinner. Either way,it's a win-win situatian.  :]  Peace out.

Carlos in Cali 20 Nov 2009 5:07 PM

Billy's Empire,

   Good Job!, What Race at CD?

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 5:13 PM

I fail to see where if Zenyatta wins HOY, it will be detrimental to horseracing. Scare tactics will not win for anyone. However if Zenyatta does not get HOY, it will mean, in my opinion, the Breeders Cup races will not be seen as a day for championships. Otherwise, what is the point?

TexSpect 20 Nov 2009 5:15 PM

The bit about Zenyatta scratching out of that race in May is getting a little tired and really is ridiculous.......It's almost as ridiculous as someone saying that aftr the Woodward Rachel SCRATCHED OUT OF THE BALANCE OF THE YEAR BECAUSE SHE WAS TIRED or maybe the other excuse.....SHE SCRATCHED OUT OF THE REST OF THE YEAR BECAUSE AFTER HER NOSE VICTORY OVER AN OVER RATED G-1 SHE WAS AFRAID THAT IF SHE RACED ANYMORE THIS FALL SHE WOULD GET BEAT.

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 5:32 PM

Linda:

Your exact same post is on another blog......How many blogs did you post it on anyway.......If you don't think that Zen should be HOY why don't you get some time on the ESPN sportscast?

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 5:34 PM

Carlos- Winslow Homer looked good in his first 2-turn race.  Wish Unbridled Songs were more durable.  They can run.

Footlick 20 Nov 2009 5:35 PM

Geez.  What is it you people don't understand?  Should a horse race just 2 or 3 times and wait to win the Breeders Cup and then declare them the best or HOY regardless of another winning many historic races that have been around 3 times longer then the Breeders Cup? Take away the Breeders Cup and what do you have left for Zenyatta?  Four wins running against 14 horses?  Take away the Woodward from Rachel and what do you have?  Amazing races and still the greatest 3 year old filly season EVER.  It doesn't match up folks no matter how you slice it.  To argue Zenyatta deserves HOY based on the year she had THIS year compared to Rachel is pure nonsense.  If you can't admit that you are ignoring 170 years of horse racing history.  Our past champions have earned their spots running on dirt at the best tracks around the country.  Not running 5 races ALL YEAR on a poly track.

Draynay 20 Nov 2009 5:40 PM

Mike Relva and Lazmannick:

Zen scratched...Alexandra the Great never did. End of discussion, boys.

Come back with your excuses and crying in January...I'll be here and I'll try to feel your pain. LOL.

See you then!

Saratoga AJ 20 Nov 2009 5:44 PM

Saratoga AJ: I hate that I am even put in the position to defend one horse over the other but that is what has happened on these blogs. I find I have defended them both.

You say the great ones run on any "dirt" track...how convenient you left out synthetic. I guess if you can fault Zen for not running on a sloppy track after a long lay off, you can fault RA for not running in the classic because it was on synthetic. The pendulum swings both ways.

Some of these so called "facts" are so comical. This is so old already.. Leave these awesome horses alone..they are both worthy.

Karen2 20 Nov 2009 5:50 PM

Anyone here happen to have the pedigree line for Don't Blame the Cat handy ?

Draynay 20 Nov 2009 6:21 PM

Having read all the comments on HOY I firmly believe the only relevant issue is that these two wonderful horses did not race against each other. For this we can  blame synthetic tracks and the overly protective connections of each horse to avoid a race confrontation. As a result horse racing is the looser.

Phil, horse racing fan 20 Nov 2009 6:38 PM

Carolyn Rogers.  Not only did Zenyatta win on dirt she took out the Eclipse Award winning mare in the process.  She then comes back to beat the runner up in the BC Lady's Classic Hysterical Lady.  

I fail to see where all roads to HOY lead through Belmont, Churchill, or Saratoga.  A second stringer (but a good mare in her own right) beat the best of the East.  

Wasn't a "rested" Music Note supposed to beat Zenyatta?  

The question is not how many times Zenyatta left California but rather how many times RA raced in California.  From where I'm sitting this is where the competition was.

Householder 20 Nov 2009 6:39 PM

I see the heated arguing is still going on.  Let's face it guys, all the arguments in the world will not convince the person you are arguing against.  You're just butting heads at this point and wasting your anger and passion on someone you can't convince.  In the end, is it worth it?  Really worth all the angst you're going through to argue?

MonicaV 20 Nov 2009 6:44 PM

DRAYNAY

You and I know that the real reason you continue to refer to Zenyatta as a poly specialist is to cushion the blow you felt for being wrong about her winning the Breeders'. I have zero doubt she would have won on dirt with no problem.

Mike Relva 20 Nov 2009 7:20 PM

SARATOGA AJ

I won't be "crying" in Jan. even if Zenyatta loses. I like RA as well. You see unlike some idiots,I can give credit to BOTH horses. I don't raise one and slam the other. But,I will admit I would be willing to spend alot of money to have seen your face when Zenyatta blew by the other eleven males a couple weeks back. Bet that was priceless! lol

Mike Relva 20 Nov 2009 7:57 PM

draynay,

Are you kidding me about looking up a pedigree?

You don't know much about horse racing if your asking a question like that.

The Pedigree Thoroughbred Online Database has been around for ever.

You rookie!

www.pedigreequery.com/dont+blame+the+cat

www.pedigreequery.com/zenyatta

Assault 20 Nov 2009 8:09 PM

Don't Blame The Cat is going nowhere.

Find another bloodline for a derby candidate.

The only 3rd generation mare that was any good for this New York bred is "Terlingua".

Assault 20 Nov 2009 8:20 PM

Mike Relva,

Draynay's feelings were hurt this Breeders Cup.

His "Music Note" couldn't beat Zenyatta's stable mate.

Assault 20 Nov 2009 8:24 PM

Dray,

     Here is "Don't Blame the Cat's" Pedigree:

www.pedigreequery.com/dont+blame+the+cat

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 8:37 PM

Householder, You don't have to tell me anything about Zenyatta, I am a Die Hard Zenyatta fan, and to me she is the one and only, that's my partiality and RA fans have theirs. To ME, Zenyatta is a class above. Thats my perogative, you RA fans can have your own too.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 8:46 PM

MonicaV, you are exactly right. no one is going to change anyone esle's mind, they are already made up. we are all sticking to our guns. and you're right, it ain't going anywhere. just butting heads.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 8:48 PM

You know the funniest thing is , is the two stars we are argueing over don't have no earthly idea what is going on in the world about them. They are in their stalls waiting for their daily run, bath, and oats and hay. without a care in the world. Zenyatta knows when she hits the track that it's "Show Time", and RA knows it's time for bashing borel, They don't even know what a HOY is, unless they thought you were trying to say "Hay" as in food and maybe you said it wrong, other than that they could absolutely care less. They just go about their everyday life being beautiful and doing what they do best.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 8:56 PM

Carolyn Rogers,

    Are you sure about that?  I don't know, Someone who left a post at 1:34 PM today(Up Above) thinks they DO know about the HOY Award?  It really is getting scary out there :)

Greg J. 20 Nov 2009 9:23 PM

ASSAULT

I've read your posts in defense of Zenyatta. Thanks for those! Yes,I agree,Zenyatta would have blown by Music Note and the other females if she ran in the Ladies Classic again. There's no doubt!

Mike Relva 20 Nov 2009 9:26 PM

Geeze Saratoga:

I know that if Zen would have scratched out of one of her races, one of those 20-L victories, they probably would have had to cancel the race or maybe declare a walkover for lack of entrants (that could get 1-1/8M).

LAZMANNICK 20 Nov 2009 9:52 PM

draynay,

Here's a link

Title of Article:

"Zenyatta Blows Away Apple Blossom Foes"

www.bloodhorse.com/.../zenyatta-blows-away-apple-blossom-foes

Note:

There's a video that you can click on, where you can watch Zenyatta destroy "Breeders Cup Distaff Champion - Ginger Punch". The race is on "Genuine American Dirt".

Assault 20 Nov 2009 10:34 PM

North American Racing Leaders:

Zenyatta $3,330,000  

Rachel Alexandra $2,746,914  

Gio Ponti $2,333,000  

Summer Bird $2,323,040  

Mine That Bird $1,892,200  

Crytoclearance 20 Nov 2009 10:42 PM

Geez, I am with you Greg J, if they think that, then hey, they must be able to communicate with  the two horses themselves, Ooh, Scary. I am with my thought, I believe the two stars no  nothing of whats going on.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 10:49 PM

Relva;

"But,I will admit I would be willing to spend alot of money to have seen your face when Zenyatta blew by the other eleven males a couple weeks back. Bet that was priceless!"

Actually, I was happy for her. After all, she is the Queen of the Synthetic tracks. I think she is a wonderful mare. It's the nuts from the Left Coast and their attitude I find appalling. Sounds like you are among them.

See you in January.

Saratoga AJ 20 Nov 2009 11:01 PM

Draynay, you are the single biggest idiot in the history of horse racing blogs. You have no idea.

People talk about synthetic surfaces and Dirt surfaces. Put bluntly from a European viewpoint, Zenyatta accelerated in her races Rachel Alexandra did the opposite. One horse out of the two was never going faster than at the finish. If Rachel Alexandra was that great why couldn't she maintain her speed? That's right because she's a typical one paced, Dirt grinder - the type that has no future if a surface that requires acceleration more is introduced.

Why does American racing have Dirt as it's main surface? Simply for practical reasons like maintaining racing all through the year, something Turf can't do in the winter for most parts of the country, and for 5/6 day a week tracks. Dirt racing doesn't exist because it's great you know.

Fabio 20 Nov 2009 11:15 PM

Greg J, also, If both of these girls (Zen and Rachael) know about the HOTY, someone may need to give each horse a cell phone and let them two talk about it themselves. Scary!!! Since they know about the awards, it must mean someone (human) has talked to them(and got replies) so lets let the two girls talk. WoW, how in the world would these horses know about the award.

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 11:16 PM

I  think for all of us Zenyatta fans, the Mosses ought to do a documentary on Zen ,now that she has retired , showing us features of her as a foal and as she progressed to where she is today. Jason, how can we reach the Mosses via e-mails if we want to  propose something like this to them.Jason, You are a writer, with connections, so I know you will know? Do they have their own website or e-mail address to reach them by?

carolyn rogers 20 Nov 2009 11:35 PM

Carolyn, I also disagree with your using astrology to pick the Horse of the Year.  Even David Icke know's that we must rely on the facts, from 2009.

Rachel Alexandra HOY 2009

Zenyatta Pegasus Award 2009

         Man O'War Award 2009

E SMITH 21 Nov 2009 12:11 AM

I see where those two top G-1 winners, Macho Again and Bullsbay were assigned a Herculean 119 lbs. each for the G-2 Clark Handicap.  Einstein is assigned 123 lbs. and Furthest Land, the BC G-1 Mile winner was assigned 123 lbs. also......I'll bet that in the past, winners of the Whitney or the Woodward would have been assigned slightly more weight.

LAZMANNICK 21 Nov 2009 12:45 AM

Greg J and Carolyn

I had a recent conversation with Mr. Ed.  He confirmed that he already knew who HOY would be but he swore that he would keep it a secret.  He made me swear on my honor that I wouldn't tell, especially because he doesn't want Saratoga AJ to know.

LAZMANNICK 21 Nov 2009 12:48 AM

Horse of the Decade

1960's - Kelso

1970's - Secretariat

1980's - John Henry

1990's - Cigar

Guess who's next?

Cryptoclearance 21 Nov 2009 1:33 AM

If Zenyatta and Rachel can speak, I wonder what they'll say to all of us who are bashing each other as to who of them is the deserving HOY. Horses can teach us a lot of things....keeping things from getting complicated.

luningning 21 Nov 2009 3:47 AM

tcc---I didn't handicap tom's card! I DO like a two year old, Indian Firewater, in the Prevue--he looked great to me at Del Mar but looked so-so at Santa Anita--maybe he'll get back his mojo at Hollywood!

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 5:11 AM

Thanks Greg J.  looks like DBTC get some speed from the sire and some stamina from the dam...interesting.  Can't wait to hear when he runs again. Maybe you can find out faster then Jason.  If anyone knows what the plans are with DBTC let me know please.

Draynay 21 Nov 2009 8:58 AM

Horses are smarter than most people realize.  They not only know when they have won an eclipse award, but I had one who helped me with Geometry as a kid.

Ted from LA 21 Nov 2009 9:07 AM

Mike I will say it one more time.  Last year is last year and one win is just that one win.  THIS YEAR Zenyatta won on NOTHING but a poly rubber track.  In 5 years she has won over every one of her races on a poly rubber track but one.  Yes Mike 13 out out of 14 makes her a poly specialist.  If they have a poly rubber award for best horse she will get my vote but in America for 170 years we have raced on dirt and grass so I will give HOY to those who win on dirt and grass.  I can compare Rachel to Secretariat and say, Rachel won the Woodward and Secretariat did not.  Rachel ran where Secretariat ran and did something he couldn't you can't say that about Zenyatta can you?

Draynay 21 Nov 2009 9:15 AM

You can't equate the two at

all,it's apples and oranges!!

They are too different in age,

style and the choice of track

surfaces. Banging your heads

trying to force them together

into one statistic is useless.

Zia 21 Nov 2009 12:22 PM

Carolyn, I find it hard to believe that someone who is convinced that Jess Jackson buys votes and that it would be a travesty if Zenyatta wasn't HOTY suddenly doesn't care if Rachel Alexandra wins, just my opinion...

funnycideoflife 21 Nov 2009 12:37 PM

carolyn,

    Please demonstrate some type of knowledge when you post. The type of whip Borel used on her in the Woodward was one of the new "horse friendly" whips. The tip is six inches long, and has a THICK FOAM PADDING inside of it, so that horses barely feel a thing when hit. It makes a loud popping noise that is suppose to motivate the horses instead of pain. So Borel is no abusing or bashing her.

LDP 21 Nov 2009 1:33 PM

Thanks Jason. That's exactly how I feel. It amazes me that people are still responding to you and Steve with even crazier comments supporting RA or Zenyatta while deriding the other--thus proving they missed the point entirely. I am happy to see more and more people realize that this entire debate is ridiculous and that those who continue to perpetuate it need to step back and relax. Maybe shut off the computer and take a walk outside, or anything to just stop acting like a typical Internet idiot.

Robyn 21 Nov 2009 1:34 PM

SARATOGA AJ

I ALWAYS enjoy picking against MIKE WATCHMAKER. Since he didn't choose Haynesfield for today,he should be a lock to win,in my opinion! lol

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 3:29 PM

Dray: Who cares where your horse of the month is running next? You'll pick about 35 horses to win the Derby between now and May 1 anyway. Forgive me if I dont want to bother Dutrow with your nonsense.

jshandler 21 Nov 2009 3:52 PM

Cryptoclearance:

And:  

1920's  Man O'War

1930's  Seabiscuit ?

1940's  Citation

1950's  Native Dancer

:)

Zia:

Good post...very logical.

You're right!

Saratoga AJ 21 Nov 2009 3:55 PM

When the promoters of Zenyatta stoop so low as to claim that Jackson is buying HOY votes and Borel is beating her, that's just sad.  And very cruel.  

ZENYATTA NADA 21 Nov 2009 3:57 PM

Crypto,

I'm still guessing. My guess is that your guess is also just a guess. Stop guessing, start betting...And not on favorites, if you want to beat this game.

rick 21 Nov 2009 4:00 PM

Draynay,

You just don't get it, do you?

You got the IQ of an icecube.

Nihilator 21 Nov 2009 4:04 PM

SARATOGA AJ

If you were half as bright as obviously you think w/ your east coast nonsense,you might be on to something. Thinking AND being are totally separate,guess you haven't figured that out! If you want to resort to name calling,I would rather be referred to as a "nut" than someone who must have graduated from "clown school". lol

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 4:06 PM

When I saw Indian Firewater at Del Mar, I thought I was looking at a graded stakes winner, but he flattened at Santa Anita...perhaps I was wrong about him, we'll know more in a couple of hours!...Also have heard good things about the Win Star horse, Anerican Lion...The Prevue came up interesting this year! Also like It Tiz tom....

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 4:18 PM

SARATOGA AJ

BTW,yea I'm sure you were thrilled Zenyatta won,since you're such a huge fan of her's. Give me a break!

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 4:24 PM

DRAYNAY

Got a question,what do you think about the horse,Take Control trained by Baffert?

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 4:29 PM

What astrology facts are you folks talking about I use, Fill me in, I have not said anything about no astrology. Furthermore, I go by my eyesight. Also, I have explained who my HOTY is, I don't care who gets the east coast award, If everyone is watching "TEAM ZENYATTA" is already being rewarded, and they will have more to come. Also. No horse can take Zenyatta's place in history ,that is etched in stone. I expect we won't see it for a long time. I don't care if RA gets the HOTY from the east coast, It will not deminnish Zenyatta and her accomplishments one bit. also, RA will never get in one more year what Zen has already, both classics, the woodward, that won't as big as the classic in my book. the only thing appealing on RA is the preakness. But I don't care, RA has a tougher year ahead of her ,yes, she does, her owner will expect her to get him a HOTY every year until she retires. He has to have the ego boost, to keep him going I guess at his old age. Poor RA, she has my blessings. They better give it to RA, so old geezer JJ don't drink up all the wine in his winery because he can't stand defeat. He will retire RA if she fails any of her races at longer distance. I am not being sarcastic at what I am about to say, but you know what? I love all horses, but my heart does go out to RA next year, because people are going to be putting her under a microscope (sort of speech)  and to see if she can win at the distances and any of the Classics and against the international boys (if there is any), and this time next year, the comparing will start. She has my blessings.

carolyn rogers 21 Nov 2009 5:03 PM

I'm still alive in "show me the money"!! (at Hol) Thats better than picking a winner! This free contest! I have Indian Firewater today, so if he runs like he did at 'Anita, I'm in trouble! Had Reba Is Tops, yesterday---Wash Bred and 10 for 20 lifetime with three nose losses this year so her record is all that and then some....in a five horse field, that's a "dream horse" for a show contest--today, I avoided the third race, that five horse field where the fave ran out!...went with 'Firewater, instead, in an eight horse field, drawn inside, is the speed....we'll see if he's good enough to keep me alive---then if I am, I'll go with It Tiz, co-fourth choice in tom's stakes.....right now I'm about 400th...

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 5:12 PM

Carolyn, et all: Yeah, "they can't take that away from us....."...by vote/by any other way--Zenyatta abides!

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 5:15 PM

I see we are back to square one.

Footlick 21 Nov 2009 5:17 PM

I think those whips have been used for awhile in Europe and there is still a whip abuse rule and a fine.  Not saying they hurt or not, just stating a fact.

Footlick 21 Nov 2009 5:23 PM

Jason,

I totally agree with you. Zenyatta's race in the BC was fantastic but she had a weak schedule before that. Rachel Alexandra won and won and won. And she will probably win the HOY. Rachel has raced more, faced harder competition (at her age), raced at different states, different tracks, different age groups, she overall has a more impressive racing history than what Zen. has.

Rachel Alexandra has my vote for HOY hands down.

Carolyn R.-

Quit putting Rachel Alexandra down! Your always looking for some excuse to put her down! She is way better than you think she is. And no she does not need a new Jockey. And no, Calviin Borel does not beat her. He is just doing his job and his passion, to put her in the best spot to win the race. :)

Who is Rachel Alexandra?-

You need to get over the fact that Rachel has a more impressive record than Zenyatta does. Oh and by the way, She beat Summer Bird and Da' Tara as well. Mine That Bird is not a fluke either. I was at the derby this year and bet on him. And he won the race. And I've seen worse K.D. winners than Giacamo.

Amalex 21 Nov 2009 5:23 PM

Mike Relva  

I think Zenyatta is a terrific mare whose legacy was shortchanged by running all but one race in one state on three tracks with a controversial surface. If she was allowed to show her stuff to the rest of the country, and succeeded which I think she would have, you can make a case for her being the best female ever. But that's just not the case. There will always be that cloud over her greatness. And that's not open to debate in my mind. So don't waste your time. As I said many times. American Racing IS DIRT RACING.

Saratoga AJ 21 Nov 2009 5:32 PM

Tex Spect--Yours was the most interesting of posts! Please don't be a stranger on this blog-site, your wisdom is welcome! It, (HOY), has morphed from a horse vote to a surface vote--perhaps cuz  ya cannot argue with perfection! I'll say this: The intent was safety, and therefore, noble....muscles are outperforming joints, bones--they tried something...

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 5:33 PM

If I owned a great horse like Zenyatta I would want everyone to know just how great she was.  I would go everywhere and anywhere to prove it to the world, I would not hold her back I would let her do her thing. I would not have to talk up a good game. It would have been proven on the tracks across the country in the biggest races against all horses male and female, AND THERE WOULD BE NO DEBATE.    

Oh that’s right there is one horse that did do that. Seems to me that RA's connections had tons more confidence in her abilities than the connections of Zenyatta's.

So then they were kinda forced into running her in the Classic to try and compete with RA's year.

ONE GREAT RACE,WHAT A WASTE OF TALENT!!!

I guess its their bad!

(This is why they should not be rewarded with HOY)

When you got a great horse YOU GOT TO PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Linda 21 Nov 2009 6:39 PM

Linda,

Your argument doesn't hold water, sweetheart.

Zenyatta went 7-0 last year and left the state and went to Oaklawn Park and took on the best (Ginger Punch - 2007 Breeders Cup Distaff Champion).

Why would Jerry and Ann Moss make the same mistake twice and leave the state of California this year (when the HOY vote for Curlin was a landslide last year).

Last year sent a message to the Zenyatta connections. The message was sent "loud and clear" and  told them that it doesn't pay to leave the state of California and prove yourself.

It's all over but the cryin now, Linda. Put a fork in Rachel Alexandra. You can kiss HOY honors goodbye.

Citation 21 Nov 2009 7:01 PM

Saratoga AJ- maybe that is part of the problem with American racing- closed minds.  We need to have open minds on so many levels in order to get going again.  Closed minds only hurt racing.

Footlick 21 Nov 2009 7:21 PM

    American Lion had a nice win tonight at Hollywood, While still learning, He has a nice long stride, Give him more distance and two turns, Watch Out...

Damnit!  Just was watching Hollywood race #9, Bonnie Brown Eyes had the lead w/Gomez aboard, She went down hard in the stretch, I don't know, Second in two days, Sometimes this sport breaks my heart, UGH...

Greg J. 21 Nov 2009 7:45 PM

Footlick:

Well everyone I know here, including all the local turf writers and handicappers, and the racing people in the know, feel the same way I do about the fake tracks. I'm in good company!

Saratoga AJ 21 Nov 2009 7:50 PM

Quote from Hall of Fame (HOF) trainer "Jack Van Berg":

“If they don’t give her Horse of the Year after that race, they might as well stop giving the award,” said Van Berg. “I’ve never seen one like Zenyatta.”

Count Fleet 21 Nov 2009 7:53 PM

Well then, if a Van Berg said it, we must award her the HOY. I have an idea, why dont we just poll all the HOF trainers out there and whatever the consensus is we just hand out the award that way.

jshandler 21 Nov 2009 7:56 PM

Hey people, RA has another year to go, in that year it can go both ways for her, good, or bad, her distances, the classics, Look, Zenyatta has already exceeded everything and now we have to wait and see if RA can be as good as Zenyatta at the end of next year, Remember, like I said, Ra will never get both classics in a lifetime unless geezer races her til she is six, No way, Furthermore, Zenyatta has the most impressive resume by far. RA has got to exceed what she done at 3, and at 4 who knows. I wish her the best. If she can win a classic, it will always be remembered that Zenyatta did it first and was the first filly to do so. To me, the classic and the way Zenyatta broke the mold, will always be centerstage than a woodward, or preakness win. the preakness had been won by a filly before. the woodward, that race , I had never heard of before, if it ain't on regular tv coverage, then it ain't a very big deal.IMO

carolyn rogers 21 Nov 2009 8:00 PM

JASON

Did you notice my comment regarding Watchmaker prior to the Discovery race? I realize you think Hank is a poor handicapper,but I don't think Watchmaker is anywhere as good as he envisions himself.

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 8:05 PM

Carolyn rogers,

   No offense, But, Now we are calling Mr. Jackson, "Geezer", and "Old"? When does it end?  FYI, Mr. Moss is 74, Mr. Jackson is 79, Is that really much of a difference?  Please, I can understand debating everything when comparing these two Horses, But, Now we have to make comments on their Owners Age?  This nonsense has to end, I hope...

Greg J. 21 Nov 2009 8:13 PM

If Ducks beat Arizona tonight, it'll be a "Civil War For The Roses"!...Go Beavers! OSU v OSU Rose Bowl!

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 8:15 PM

Now your talkin!

Let's implement it.

Count Fleet 21 Nov 2009 8:18 PM

When you got a great horse YOU GOT TO PROVE IT!!!!!!

And prove it they did in the Breeders cup classic. Eight grade 1 winning colts....1st filly/mare in history to ever win the race and she didn't even take a deep breath. If that's not proof sister, I don't know what is.....

Karen2 21 Nov 2009 8:29 PM

Citation,

     The message was just the reverse, considering Curlin, who won, ran in Dubai, Kentucky, Belmont, Saratoga, and Santa Anita. Zenyatta's problem was that she stayed in her home state for all but one start, ONE, while Curlin ran from coast to coast and in two countries. The message was if you want HOTY, get your but out of your home state and take on a tougher season.

LDP 21 Nov 2009 8:37 PM

Greg J, what do you mean " she went down hard", was it an accident? Gosh, I hope not. I can't stand it when these horses break down on the tracks. give us a update soon?

carolyn rogers 21 Nov 2009 8:51 PM

LDP,

Was Curlin beaten in 2008? How many times was Curlin beaten in Grade I competition? Did he lose on grass? Did he lose in the Breeders Cup?

Did Zenyatta leave the state in 2008? Did Zenyatta lose in Grade I competition?

Answer these for me when you have time.

Citation 21 Nov 2009 8:57 PM

Saratoga AJ-I don't care whether there are synthetic tracks or not.  I'm talking about having open enough thinking to do the things that need to be done.  Closed-minded thinking in one area always spreads to other areas and nothing gets done.  We see it in politics all the time, and politics are very much a part of American racing.  If the synthetic tracks go, they go.  If they don't, everybody better find a way to figure out how they are going to fit in.  Just going around saying that dirt is American racing and horses who run on synthetics are nothing doesn't do any good.  If you are in the industry, instead of being so closed-minded and pig headed, demeaning horses who run on synthetics and  saying that DIRT is American racing, (of course where does that put our turf horses?) maybe you can be  a little more magnanimous and figure out how they are going to fit in and see where they can be improved.   Why don't you all get together and figure out where racing has to go from here to be lucrative and profitable.  If you are in the industry, you all have the perfect platform.  You all can be heard.  Dubai just changed their track to synthetic from dirt.  Why do you think that happened?  Maybe California will become  the American haven for European horses who want to run in more lucrative races than those which are staged in Europe for synthetic horses.  Maybe California will stage the World Championships attracting horses from Europe and Dubai for turf and synthetic races.  And if you get less and less participation from Europe, the Breeders' Cup will fade away.  Then you can have your East Coast dirt domination all by yourself while the rest of the world enjoys something else.  If that is what you want for American racing, you are well on your way to getting it.  As it is, every European trainer was awed by what Zenyatta did.  Awed by her closing mile, awed by the ease which she won.  And, unlike here, they run their fillies and mares against males all the time.  They know what they saw and they know how to assess it.  And they saw it in person.   They don't slight her because she did it on a synthetic track.  Open your eyes.  That's the only way that American racing is going to survive.  Otherwise, we are going to continue to see tracks close, because a racetrack is no longer a viable money-making business and as long as the status-quo thinking pervades, horse racing is going to continue to go down.  People will only invest in it if they see it in a new light.  Your thinking does not put it in a new light.  

Footlick 21 Nov 2009 8:58 PM

LINDA

You don't have any idea what you're talking about!

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 8:59 PM

Carolyn Rogers,

     Sadly, The two year old filly, Bonnie Brown Eyes, In just her second race, Is no longer with us, My Thoughts go out to her connections, At least G. Gomez seems like he will be alright...

R.I.P. Bonnie Brown Eyes...

Greg J. 21 Nov 2009 9:02 PM

Amalex. Did you watch the Classic, if not dear, let me fill you in on something, Zenyatta beat SB and MTB, and Da'Tara, I don't think he was good enough to be entered in the classic. if so, Zenyatta would have left him looking at her butt too. RA has my best wishes at heart, and my blessings and my sympathy for her upcoming season. The world, will be comparing, I promise. Maybe they will run her at Dubai or the ARC De Triumphe, next year, then in the BCC.

carolyn rogers 21 Nov 2009 9:05 PM

carolyn rogers,

"Bonnie Brown Eyes" broke her right front leg, fell instantly and broke her neck and died instantly. Reminds me when "Sweet Diane" went down for Frankel many years ago (except that happened on the clubhouse turn).

Garrett Gomez is at the hospital.

Assault 21 Nov 2009 9:13 PM

Devastating, pure, devastating. This is the sad part of this sport, and why people don't stay with it. It's times like these that are gut wrenching. And think about the fans that have to see this in person, Oh my, breaks my heart.What is so sad, is her little stall is empty tonight. They all(horses) have my blessings and my sympathy as well.

LDP,

A whip is made of leather, leather when it is whipped, yes, it makes a cracking noise, but the main objective is to "STING" and when leather is hit at such force, it stings and stings. A whip is not just for a noise, and never was for that purpose on the back of a race horse. The purpose is to sting the horse to make it run faster.  

carolyn rogers 21 Nov 2009 9:43 PM

Carolyn, I don't even know what to say to a person who had never heard of the Woodward before Rachel ran in it. Let me enlighten you with a brief list of SOME of the winners:

Kelso

Damascus

Buckpasser

Forego

Seattle Slew

Affirmed

Spectacular Bid

Alysheba

Easy Goer

Holy Bull

Cigar

...not to mention a loser of the race that goes by the name of Secretariat. If that race isn't a big deal, then I certainly have no idea what is, but I'm a "young person" as you say, so obviously I don't know anything.

funnycideoflife 21 Nov 2009 10:19 PM

I was at Hollywood Park today to catch the Prevue and unfortunately stayed one race too long.  The breakdown of poor Bonnie Blue Eyes was one of the most horrific things one can ever see at the track.  She brokedown in midstretch, right infront of the grandstand, while leading the race by almost 2 on her way to an apparent victory.  I was watching the race on the apron just about directly parallel to where Bonnie brokedown, and the instant I saw her fall, I just turned my head and walked off the apron as fast as I could. Before I could turn my head fully around, however, I noticed that Bonnie had not tried to get back up, and did not see any movement from Bonnie when I glanced back to check on Garrett's condition.  Evidently, Bonnie snapped an ankle and broke her neck during the fall, dying almost instantly. Just brutal stuff.  

This, just one race after watching the very promising American Lion win the Hollywood Prevue Stakes like a legit Derby prospect.  Having gone down to the saddling area before the Prevue, I can tesify to what a physical specimen American Lion is. Wow, what a big, strong 2 year old! I totally agree with Eliot Walden of Winstar who describes American Lion as a near perfect mix, physically, of sire Tiznow and broodmare sire Storm Cat.

The Prevue probably will not receive the same 93 Beyer that American Lion received after breaking his maiden at Keeneland.  Although well placed in 2nd early in the race, it took a while for American Lion to put away the Baffert duo of Macias and Indian Firewater.  In fact, Julien Leparoux was having to ride American Lion hard on the turn and briefly appeared to be in deep water. Once in the stretch, however, the Baffert horses shortened stride while American Lion began to finally stretch his impressive stride.  I was a little disappointed that once American Lion hit the front, he wasn't able to open up, and instead had to struggle to hold off the late run of 20-1 shot Get My Fix.  

All, in all, it was a solid performance by American Lion.  He certainly didn't strike me as a brilliant type, or a horse that is push-button.  Rather, he is a massive horse that lumbers a bit, and takes a while to get fully in stride.  Yet, I see a lot of room for improvement, and his breeding and physical appearance suggests he should only get better with distance.  Given that trainer, Harty, and Walden have commented that his mind has not quite caught up with his body, his behavior during the Prevue makes more sense, and suggests that he could be a very serious racehorse once he does put it all together.  I guess it's somewhat remarkable that a 2 year old that raw,  so big, and with distance breeding is now a graded stakes winner at a sprint distance.  

If only I would have left Hollywood Park immediately after the Prevue. RIP Bonnie Brown Eyes, and best wishes to Garrett Gomez.  

GunBow 21 Nov 2009 10:24 PM

Lickfoot:

I stand by my comments concerning your rubber tracks. American racing is DIRT, not synthetics.

I'm done debating the Left Coast outcasts.

Talk to ya'all in January.

Ciao.

Saratoga AJ 21 Nov 2009 10:51 PM

lets just say Vic Stauffer's humanity showed in his call, they might not like that but I do...

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 11:06 PM

funnycideoflife--THAT Woodward is just that--THAT Woodward was the championship, the Classic---this 1 1/8 Woodward is far from that--right?

Matthew W 21 Nov 2009 11:08 PM

Heartbreaking about Bonnie Brown Eyes. I simply hate this and it  makes me wonder why I love this sport so much.

Paula Higgins 21 Nov 2009 11:09 PM

SARATOGA AJ

I would rather be "LEFT COAST" outcast as you phrase it then up to my --- in snow all the time! Why don't you have the manners to address individuals by their actual name instead of trying to be cute? Guess you never learned manners on the East Coast,right?

Mike Relva 21 Nov 2009 11:15 PM

funnycideoflife- I think the point was that the race that has attracted those stellar horses in stellar fields has not attracted that kind of horse consistantly for some time now.  I remember those days- and the Woodward of today's era is a pale comparison to it's heyday.  It is the Woodward in name only- not in stature anymore.

Saratoga AJ- As usual you turn to insults.  Maybe if you read Dorothy Parker and learn to be witty, I could at least be entertained by your comments.  She was a New Yorker- just in case you thought she was a "left-coast" outcast.

Footlick 21 Nov 2009 11:17 PM

Footlick:

I see the way that Saratoga AJ disrespected your name......shows a lot of class.....Personally I thought he/she was a little better than that.....Now I think I know what AJ really stands for.....LOL and by the way, your post makes a lot of sense.

LAZMANNICK 21 Nov 2009 11:23 PM

Carolyn,

    little tip, check the entries of a race, Da'Tara was not entered in the Classic.

LDP 21 Nov 2009 11:29 PM

Gun Bow:

I wondered why Julien would go out there for a 100K G-3 race.......I think he realized the potential from the Keenland race.......The horse's other race was at AP so now we will have to wonder if there is a synthetic bias even though I believe all three synthetic tracks are differnt.

LAZMANNICK 21 Nov 2009 11:33 PM

Citation,

     He did get beat, and go back and read my previous post, I guess you missed the part where I said Zenyatta went out of state ONCE, while Curlin ran in went on cross country trips and traveled across the world. He had a fuller season winning races like the World Cup, Stephen Foster, Woodward, and JCGC. Tell me what races Zenyatta ran in. Tell me how many grade ones she ran in compared to Curlin. Tell me who tried all THREE surfaces in one year. Who traveled all year long? Now tell me who raced in two states, six of seven, being in one. Who did not race in open competition, who did not win races that were all that prestigious?

Go back and read all the blogs from last year about HOTY and tell me WHY everyone thought Curlin should get the award over Zenyatta. Oh, well, you can't do that since your so dense, so i'll do it for you. Everyone who wanted Curlin to win said that he had the fuller year traveling from state to state and crossing an ocean, while Zenyatta stayed home for most races, only leaving the state once, only facing fillies. So basiclly they wanted her to campaign outside of Cali MORE.

LDP 21 Nov 2009 11:39 PM

Life is Sweet flattered Zenyatta even more. Macho Again and Bullsbay what have they done after the Woodward? Macho Again may run well in the Clark but I don't see him winning it. RA got lucky and ran into one of the worst crops of 3 year olds and three year old fillies ever. The Woodward had a grade 3 field. It isn't which race you win that counts it's the competition that counts. Zenyatta beat the best field of the year in the Classic so that should settle it. So what if she only raced five times. It's about qaulity not quantity. Zenyatta's largest margin of victory came in her only race on dirt so the argument that RA won by so many lengths doesn't count because even when they ran on dirt in S. California you didn't get ten length winners. RA would be winning by small margins out west because that's the way the races play out. It's nice that RA has so many fans but lets be realistic. She has a win on fake dirt so the only excuse for not going to the BC is because J.J. didn't want to get embarrassed again.

Tim 22 Nov 2009 12:20 AM

I just read your reply directed at me: "Also, most owners are in the business to make MONEY, if that didnt dawn on you by now."

What an insult! Yes, I am well aware that SOME owners are into the bus to make mega bucks (it's their living), but there are also those owners who actually LOVE their horse(s). To name one: Jerry and Ann Moss!!!!

I've known owners and trainers who shed tears when their horse breaks down. Don't tell me it was because of the loss of $$$$!

THOSE are the people I have respect for, not the ones that are only into the sport to MAKE $$$$, like you so rudely pointed out to me.

BTW - you're going to love this ~ I'm not even into betting! lol I love the horses... surprise, surprise! :-)

Judy wants ZENYATTA to win HOY 22 Nov 2009 1:15 AM

In my first paragraph I incorrectly referred to the ill-fated filly in the 9th at Hollywood as "Bonnie Blue Eyes". I was correct in my final paragraph when I refered to her as "Bonnie Brown Eyes". RIP.

GunBow 22 Nov 2009 2:31 AM

Today I'm just glad the 2 fillies are sound and happy...I am so glad Garret Gomez is OK after that horrible incident at Hollywood Park yesterday...I'm glad the filly died instantly, too, from what I can gather, instead of being in agony...that's the second horrific breakdown in that same spot in 3 days that I've seen...

I still don't understand why atheletes break down at the rate they do in this sport...In all the athletic horse sports I've been involved in for 30 years I have only seen one horse die from injury.

Probably because other sport venues wait until the horse grows up. So stinkin' sad...I've got to get away from this game...

da3hoss 22 Nov 2009 7:21 AM

American Lion is gonna love the real dirt back east next spring ;-)

Had the tri in that race...:-0!

da3hoss 22 Nov 2009 7:33 AM

Everyone or anyone, I have a question? What are the chances of JJ running RA next year in, Dubai, or the Arc,De Triomphe and in the Breeders Cup Classic. Maybe letting Dubai be her first race of the season. Not Dubai and the Arc,one or the other and the classic at the end of the year. with her other races. What are you guys take on that?

carolyn rogers 22 Nov 2009 7:57 AM

Paula, Holland Creek had the same head over heels type of breakdown just a couple of days before, in almost the same spot, i think Bejerano was on her and managed to grab her and hold her until they got to her to end her suffering, poor darling, "just" a hard working claimer feeding the stable...

da3hoss 22 Nov 2009 9:24 AM

Jason, you are very brave for standing up to your convictions on Rachel. I wish you the best..and don't worry about the "mental patients" here.  They will run out of rants, sooner or later.

Dray, you are right:  Watching the BC Classic CAN be dangerous to your health.  It makes most fans BLIND to the FACTS in front of them.  

FACT#1: Rachel is a 3-year old who will be in the TB HALL OF FAME.  It took Zen 5 years before she was able to beat OLDER MALE horses in the BC Classic.  Rachel is only 3, and she already beat both MALES, and OLDER MALES!!! No filly in history was able to beat MALES THREE times in the SAME YEAR!! at the age of 3!!! on DIRT!! AMAZING!!! If you doubt this, then go ask DRF's Mr. Watchmaker.

FACT#2:  Rachel DID NOT "duck" the BC.  Plain and Simple, the girl is tired after running from February to September-- 8 victories in 8 months--all over North America: from the Fantasy stakes in Arkansas, to the Kentucky Oaks in Kentucky, to the Preakness in Maryland, to the Mother Goose in New York, to the Haskell in New Jersey...etc. Heck, I AM GLAD she is still in ONE PIECE!! And she WON ALL her races!  And she is only 3 years old!!  My poor baby..

FACT#3:  Zen has ONLY ONE race to justify her claim for HOY. Her other 4 victories, were against the same California fillies, and in the same California Pro-Ride, and with REST in between.  Until the BC, Zen's HOY points in the NTRA polls amounted to exactly 1 POINT!!  Take away the BC, and Zen's HOY points will shrink back to the original 1 point. Take away the Woodward or any race from Rachel, she's still got 7 other historical races to win HOY with..

FACT#4: HOY awards are given to horses who win NOT JUST the BC, and regardless of the BC.  The HOY awards are based on the accomplishments of a horse in ONE YEAR, not in ONE RACE.  ONE race is just ONE RACE.  DON'T "make MOUNTAINS out of MOLE HILLS", please.

Rache Alexandra is the best bet for HOY 2009, because (1) she deserves it, and (2) she is the champion of champions in 2009.

TO Zen fans:  ONLY Zen's 2009 victories--exactly 5--are counted for HOY 2009!

GO, BABY, GO!! RACHEL FOR HOY 2009!! WOOHOO!  RACHEL YOU ARE THE BEST!!

K-swiss 22 Nov 2009 9:38 AM

funnycideoflife, I don't know who you think you are coming on here throwing out facts all over the place but I for one will have none of it.  Why would you even think of giving HOY to any other horse then the one who stayed at home never left the state and didn't win a single race this year on turf or dirt.  What? You want to give it to a 3 year old that set numerous records, won a race even the great Secretariat could not win, and ran the most spectacular Haskel, nearly setting the track record in the mud?  Geez, do you have a lot to learn.

Draynay 22 Nov 2009 9:42 AM

Hall of Fame trainer Jack Van Berg is a man of few words.

That quote from him (above) is powerful.

It took a win in the Breeders Cup Classic for Van Berg and Alysheba to win Horse of the Year.

LDP 22 Nov 2009 10:38 AM

The fix is on!

The Bloodhorse poll for "Horse of the Year" has moved 950 votes in the last 24 hours.

Who likes Rachel Alexandra over there in the IT dept, Jason?

The Fix is on! 22 Nov 2009 10:45 AM

Hmmm....that's a good idea.Maybe they should poll the HOF trainers and let them decide who's HOY and all the 'other' end of the year honors...they do have a better understanding of the sport and are more qualified than anybody else,right?

Carlos in Cali 22 Nov 2009 12:23 PM

I was at Hollywood Park for the Hollywood Prevue Stakes, and I think AMERICAN LION is full of ability and future improvement, but that he is "green" right now. Still, he's a good horse who will only get better.

I also saw the last last race. How awful. How sad. It was really hard to take. But you know what's amazing about the racetrack or, more appropriately, about people? While most of the people in attendance seemed to understand that this was a tragic and horrible incident, there were a few people laughing. Sometimes I am sickened by the some people.

Regarding the Woodward winners list:

Kelso

Damascus

Buckpasser

Forego

Seattle Slew

Affirmed

Spectacular Bid

Alysheba

Easy Goer

Holy Bull

Cigar

I know it happened 38 years ago, but COUGAR II was robbed of his victory by being unfairly disqualified! He was TONS the best that day and he totally tore that field up! Is it too late to get that result reversed so that we can put him up as the winner? His name belongs on that list of Woodward greats!

Mike S 22 Nov 2009 12:27 PM

Woo Hoo Footlick, Dorothy Parker! I'm impressed.

Paula Higgins 22 Nov 2009 12:33 PM

Jason

I agree with an earlier blogger ref: anyone who has to monitor these blogs needs a raise! I have no problem writing to your boss :) There are definitely some way out there folks and think hazardous duty pay is in order, especially after this posting on HOY choice.

I also agree with most of your comments and would add further some old veteran thoughts.  To say that a large number vehemently support or oppose views would be an understatement and gotten to the point where I don't visit or post as much.  Agree the horses won't care, only the people do but by and large this is a good thing even with the heated comments.  To get on my 'soap box', especially after seeing more 3YOs announced as being retired to stud, I am just glad in this case that the ownership believe(d) in racing for more than their 3YO season, unlike too many others. To pick on Darley as an example, I was crushed when they bought up most of the top 3YOs in 2007 and promptly retired them to stud.  While you have said it is about making money and I agree to a point but have a hard time swallowing that one when it comes to Darley, Juddemont, Coolmore, et al, etc. The only difference 'to me' is that these big name owners usually don't make 'excuses' as to why they are being retired, while others come up with some injury or issue with the horse that might prevent them from competing at the same level as prior to the supposed injury, hurting their stud career, PLEASE <*V*V*B*S>.  The so and so big name vet that confirms doesn't add sugar to the medicine for those of us that have been around and know its not exactly unbiased opinions.  The fact that so many fans have gotten behind these two horses because we know they are/will/have been around is great for the sport and what will get our sport back into the public eye as days of old. The public wants to see their champions RACE, support them both on and off track and debate, making year end honors really worth something and not see them shuffled off to the farm in their prime and not defending those honors as great champions. (as you have pointed out about RA and Zee, plus even if they did meet, wouldn't stop the debating - ref: Sunday/Goer, Swaps/Nashua, Aff/Aly)  Fans supporting their horse hero is more than evidenced at the turn out of the public when these two champions have raced this year. How many have fans bought win tickets that went uncashed when it comes to certain horse?  I don't get behind 3YO colts too much anymore because we will be lucky to see them get past the TC races and to BC much less race at 4 and beyond. We are lucky this year in that it appears we will get to see a number of these horses (SB, MTB, RA, GP) return next year.  THIS is what is good for the sport and would do more for increasing popularity than most anything else the racing community is trying to come up with to get fans to the track. Attention racing entities: The HORSES are the HEROES, not the connections. Look at how many fans are attached to 'old timers' like Einstein, Funny Cide, Perfect Drift, Evening Attire, Lave Man, Cigar, John, the list goes on. Forego will always be my number 1. They don't always have to win but they still have fans because they race.  To the fans, its about RA and Zen period. Only a very small portion is written about the owners, even less about the trainers and almost nothing about the jockeys. Do right by our heroes, no medication, safe surfaces (dirt, turf, syn), limited whipping and have racetracks that are public friendly (doesn't have to be fancy, just clean, polite and inexpensive as to food, programs, parking, etc) will bring out the public to see the heroes race.  Just to reiterate, the public doesn't come out to see Smith and Calvin, the public came out to see Zen and RA and the racing community trying to refocus fans is not working, although Jockeys has been good (yes bloggers, I know Calvin's not on there, not the point), its not the same and VLT/Casinos help but not the answer. When owners, tracks, JC, NTRA, etc finally gets that clue, then the rest would fall into place and 'fix' racing.  I own, breed, race standardbreds and have seen the same retire 3YO trend take a strong foothold in my sector and do my small insignificant part in avoiding those stallions. The USTA is helping by the new rule on limiting covers but I think the best rule change that should be made for the good of racing in both sports is no horse be allowed to breed until they are at least 5. Aside from the fact that the horses would be physically mature, benefits of fans being able to stay with their heroes for an additional year, more high caliber horses available to fill stake races and refocus of the breeding and ownership interest on breeding sounder horses that are able to compete through their 4YO season can't be anything but good for the sport.  They could even bring back stuff like the ACRS...okay I am THAT old and then some<G>. Taking this fan fanatism for RA and Zee and making something out of it would be good. Kudos to the owners that keep our heroes in racing. Okay enough on that.

Lastly, I agree with your thought on who should be HOY if split vote is not allowed, but I will mildly have to disagree on the HOY voting. Precedent has been set for shared or a better word I think is more appropriate, DUAL HOY. Regardless of the how it happened, most folks don't know or care about the process that resulted in dual HOY of the past.  Politically correct or otherwise has nothing to do with it. There is the possibility that even if a split vote was allowed, that it still wouldn't result in a tie.  There would be those that feel like you do as to RA and some that feel the same about Zee and her BC Classic win.  Then there will be others like Haskin who really see the merits of both and stalemated (generalization not his words specifically).  Certainly of the last 38 years of the current process, it really hasn't been an issue and doubt we will see a situation such as this one again for a very long time. I would also point out that there was a change to Hall of Fame voting and it was changed back to the current adjusted process to go along with my justification. I do think that a split vote should be allowed, it may or may not make a difference but would be interesting to know for sure.

Cheers! Keep up the good work!

mararacing 22 Nov 2009 4:01 PM

JASON,

We care so much about the HOTY title because it represents to the fans a celebration and acknowledgement of the ideals of the game, embodied in one outstanding performer for the season.  These ideals are excellence, brilliance, competitiveness, consistency, class, speed, versatility, stamina, grit, durability and the aura of authority and mystique.  Now both Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta have upheld these ideals, except that "BIG Z" has done so cumulatively over two seasons.  Some new category of achievement award would have to be created to reward her since in both 2008 and 2009 she falls comparitively short of Curlin's and Rachel's respective seasonal accomplishments.

Consider this also.  What would the seasonal picture look like if Jess Jackson hadn't bought Rachel and campaigned her the way he did?  Mine That Bird would have won the Derby and Preakness, Summer Bird would have won the Belmont, Haskell, Travers, and Jockey Club Gold Cup, Rachel Alexandra would have swept all the Grade 1 F&M races on the trot and by the proverbial city block a la Kentucky Oaks.  Then Hal Wiggins et al would have sent her to the Breeder's Cup Distaff/Lady's Classic where, in all likelihood (as have happened to all the accomplished Dirt horses), she would have been humbled by the Pro-Ride surface and beaten by Zenyatta and Life Is Sweet.  The HOTY would instead be a contest between Gio Ponti and Zenyatta, since the connections of "Big Z", without the lure of trying to topple a "male-beating campaign" by Rachel, would have abdicated the BCC to Gio Ponti in their characteristic timid fashion (no disrespect to them).  Clearly, in such a scenario Zenyatta would not be denied HOTY twice.  But we must awake to present reality and not require that Rachel Alexandra and her connections "subsidize" Zenyatta's light campaign by sharing the 2009 HOTY crown.  Am I making sense or what?

GUNBOW,

American Lion's pedigree is not laiden with stamina.  He'll have to rely heavily on his sire Tiznow's influence to get the Derby distance in a hotly contested race.  What he has going for him is that, as a progeny of Tiznow, he is rather precocious while being no where near maturity at this point and therefore holds a lot of promise much for the future.  He does indeed look good.

Ranagulzion 22 Nov 2009 4:17 PM

LINDA

The fact is,YOU DON'T OWN HER,and I don't either! You can take assurance when the connections of Zenyatta wake up in the morning they don't give a seconds consideration as to what individuals' like yourself think about running here or there for their "superhorse". They DO THINGS THEIR WAY! And I totally agree with them. With your ideas if you had a horse like Zenyatta would probably end in disaster! Bet you would even run at fairs! The connections owe zero explanation,they did things the correct manner,not only do they have a great horse w/ a perfect record,SHE RETIRES SOUND!

Mike Relva 22 Nov 2009 5:07 PM

I think it's really bizarre when people say that Rachel was "ducking" by not going to meet Zenyatta.

A three year old filly is run in the Haskell, the Preakness, and the Woodward, and that's called "ducking?"  What sort of weird world is that?

My reasoning is the same as Jason's: RA deserves the nod because she ran a much more complete season.  Remember, by the Mother Goose no one in her own division even wanted to face her, which says something right there.  But the main point is that if we are going to bemoan the fact that racing is losing fans because our best horses just don't run very often any more, we should not be handing out HOY to a horse who ran only 5 times this season.  

Horses with short seasons win awards and command top dollar in the breeding shed.  If we are going to reward short campaigns, of course they will keep happening, and we will continue to lose what little is left of the fan base.

MB 22 Nov 2009 5:47 PM

Mike Relva

I know quite a bit more than you think you do.  Too bad you dont get it.  Im sorry it went right over your head. I'll try not to make it so hard to understand next time.

Linda 22 Nov 2009 6:19 PM

I know this isn't the forum for this, but since I'm no longer engaged in the HOY debate (heard it all) I want to take this opportunity to send my condolences to the connections of Bonnie Brown Eyes.  I was watching racing yesterday on TVG, that was just horrific to see, but how awful for the people that were there and especially for her people.  I'm glad Gomez is relatively OK, it could have been much worse.  

Runfast159 22 Nov 2009 8:15 PM

Hey Jason,

I'm not so sure that it's an East/West mindset as much as it is an arrogance of intelligence. Carlos from Cali claimed, "If you have a smidgen of horse racing knowledge,you'll know that Zenyatta is superior to RA right now." I think for the most part, most of us only have a smidgen of knowledge, but we sure want to make sure that everyone knows that we feel that our ideas are vastly superior to anyone else's that doesn't agree with us. How about leave the voting to the people that do this sort of thing for a living. If a couple of world renowned surgeons are arguing which suture is the best, I really don't care what my Aunt Ethel has to say about it.

I too wish that they would have settled it on the track, but I believe there would have been excuses made for the one that lost. It could have even turned into another Ali/Frazier series.

One thing I think that all of us have to agree on is that they are both tremendous horses.

DogDoc 22 Nov 2009 8:31 PM

We're taking about Horse of the YEAR here, not Horse of the BREEDERS' CUP

I'm not taking anything away from Zenyatta, she was just amazing. But during the year, she never left her track, always beat the same horses...just ran once against the male...And rachel ran on a lot of different tracks, many times against the boys...and destroy Summer Bird who was pretty close to Zenyatta in the Classic

Katie 22 Nov 2009 8:55 PM

The point I was making was that to say the Woodward isn't a big deal is pure ignorance. FYI, since 2003, (not counting this year), 5 of the past 6 winners have been Eclipse champions, with four being named Horse of the Year, so yes, it still has some of its stature from many years ago. It is, and always will be, a historical race.

funnycideoflife 22 Nov 2009 9:22 PM

All I can say is "WOW", Zenyatta gets awarded for the "Turf" award, now she will have her own day,Zenyatta day,On Nov. 29, 2009 @ Hollywood Park, I also read were California is getting ready to kick off a big ad campaign for her, You're right, Jason, nothing can deminish her and what she means to her fans. That girl is so special, You know, I believe we are starting to see exactly what her legacy in history will mean to this industry. Jason, I don't care any more about a HOTY award, that is fruitless compared to Zenyatta's legacy and how she leaves it in our hearts and minds, also, in two years or less,or more, people will say ,"Who won a HOTY award, most will have to look it up. but, people will say, What was the first filly to win the BCC, and everyone will remember, the one and the only one to have achieved it. The best mare of all time, Zenyatta. She is just 2 good 2 B 4 gotton, EVER, and she don't need any statue or piece of paper to prove it. Although, I do believe she has more awards and rewards coming!!

carolyn rogers 22 Nov 2009 9:44 PM

Thanks Laz- but I have to consider the source.  I could care less what people call me on here.  It's just that some people consider insults as wit, and they need to go back and read really witty people to realize that there has to be content and a turn-of-phrase to be witty.  There are many people on here who are just arrogant and rude and resort to calling people names.  It's just so interesting to me that people think it is acceptable.  It must have to do with the anonymity aspect of blogging.  They aren't responsible for the way they act because nobody knows who they are.  But- whatever! LOL!  

Footlick 22 Nov 2009 11:27 PM

Looks like the Express Train is gathering momemtum and blowin' by all the spin.  Hang onto your hats, and Jason, don't drop your program.

It's been a great ride.

Next stop... Kentucky Derby for some presently unknown colt....or filly.

Aluminaut 22 Nov 2009 11:39 PM

Then I hope it gets alot better fields.  Because the field that Curlin beat last year was not stellar either.  I'm not sure I'd call Lido Palace a world beater and he won it twice.  Lemon Drop Kid was nice, but not extrordinary.  St Liam was good, Mineshaft was good, but neither are going to be called great. Ghostzapper, on talent alone, though was spectacular.  The race has been going downhill year after year. But, any of the previous winners could have won this years edition.  Sometimes there are off years.  The Woodward has been having a few of them.  I hope they can rebuild it.  But if there was a year a filly could run and win, this was it.  And kudos to Jess Jackson for realizing it and capitalizing on it.  It's paid off for him.  He'll get HOY.  

Footlick 22 Nov 2009 11:47 PM

People around the world were extremely impressed when Zenyatta won the Breeders Cup Classic and immediately there was talk of how awesome she would have been in the Dubai World Cup and how she would have given the mighty Sea The Stars the battle of his life in the Arc.  They truly believe that she is America's champion and many thought that surely she was a cinch for HOY in N.A.  When informed that her main competition for the award was Rachel Alexandra, they immediately had a puzzled expression on their faces scratched their heads and said "Rachel who?  This horse did not race in the Breeders Cup Classic.  How could she be HOY?"  When they were informed that yes, you're right, but she defeated the mighty Macho Again in the Woodward Stakes.  Again the people had that puzzled look and immediately scratched their heads and said "Macho Who?"

LAZMANNICK 22 Nov 2009 11:49 PM

SARATOGA AJ,

     J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets, Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Greg J. 22 Nov 2009 11:56 PM

Laz- Do i have to go over the rules again?  Europeans? Do they race on dirt?

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 12:41 AM

I refuse to "put down" Zenyatta.  I believe she is an outstanding race mare.  I don't care that the majority of her wins have been in California and on a synthetic racing surface. I also believe she could have been so much more if only she had been given a chance but "No" Assault; it is not "understood".  HOY is not awarded to the horse with the best career or to the horse with the biggest single win; it's for the best campaign during 2009.  Rachel Alexandra was challenged much more than Zenyatta and defeated all challengers.

We'll never know who is the better race horse; the award goes to the horse with the best campaign.

That said, I don't believe for a moment that Zenyatta would "flat eat RA up in the stretch and blow by".  Rachel Alexandra is versatile.  Her running style in a race including Zenyatta would have been adjusted to leave plenty in the tank for the stretch run.

There have been plenty of reminders of this, but I'll say it again.  It took Zenyatta 3 years to compile her 14 straight wins.  She raced 5 times in 2009 and in only 1 race did she face a true challenge.  One race should never determine HOY unless the two top candidates are in the race and one proves dominant.

I'm also tired of hearing about the "east coast bias".  I live on the west coast.  I don't care where the HOY comes from.  I just want to see the best campaign rewarded.

Finally, while I will agree Zenyatta's BCC win was fabulous and it was a significant first,  I truly think there is a much greater possibility that another female will win the BC Classic again than that another 3-yr old filly will accomplish what Rachel Alexandra has this year.

I'm well aware that none of these comments will change the mind of anyone who favors Zenyatta - I'm just happy to have these forums to express my opinion.  It's so great to see how passionate so many people are about horse racing and especially about race horses.  Thanks to both these great horses for the most memorable year in recent history!

robinm 23 Nov 2009 1:05 AM

LAZ, How many "people in the world" you know ACTUALLY watched the BC classic?  Not even Yahoo sports had ONE article about it.  I know, coz I tried to find one.

Search on google, "Preakness, rachel alexandra" and you got TONS of articles from NBC, SI, AP, Reuters, ESPN, Miami herald, Washington Post, New York Post, VOGUE, etc.etc.  And you say, NOBODY heard of Rachel Alexandra???  NOBODY must be a NAME, duh??

Search, "woodward-rachel alexandra" on youtube, and you got fan videos of the race.  Search the same on google, and you still got ESPN, Washington Post, etc. covering it.

FACT IS, Rachel Alexandra is FAMOUS. She started being famous since last year 2008, but she hit the BIG-TIME in the Kentucky Oaks and the Preakness.  

GET OVER IT-- Rachel is HOY 2009!! She is the Super-Filly of all times!!  GO, BABY, GO!!!

Sexy 23 Nov 2009 2:03 AM

Hall of Fame trainer Jack Van Berg is a man of few words.

That quote from him (above) is powerful.

It took a win in the Breeders Cup Classic for Van Berg and Alysheba to win Horse of the Year.

LDP 22 Nov 2009 10:38 AM

This is not actually me, we all know my standpoint quite well. I don't mind both getting the award, but otherwise I'm all RA.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 6:03 AM

Fix is on,

That poll has been up for over 2 weeks, and RA votes are just catching up with Zens, I'm shocked, with RA big so called fanfare out here, it took so long to catch up, I would have thought,geeez, maybe a day, why,so long. the other polls still have Zen ahead, and I don't mean biased newyorktimes.com either.

MB,

Zenyatta has not been running a short season, 5 races this year is good, furthermore, this is her second year of running, You all are putting the cart before the horse, How do any of you know for sure RA will do great next year, do you have a crystal ball, you put zenyatta down for her season this year, I want to ask you? HOW MANY RACES DO YOU THINK JJ WILL RUN RACHAEL IN NEXT YEAR? I PROMISE YOU IT WON'T BE LIKE THIS YEAR, SHE WON'T RUN IN BIG RACES WITH GREATER DISTANCES MORE THAN A FEW or ONE, SHE WILL MOST LIKELY STAY WITH THE 9 FURLONGS OR LESS.

carolyn rogers 23 Nov 2009 6:48 AM

I agree Laz, Macho Who? he is definltly off the radar screen. Laz, all I can say is, the year ain't over yet!! and the tallies haven't been totaled. I believe this is going to be an extroidanary year, and a whole lot of shock in the end. I have this feeling.

carolyn rogers 23 Nov 2009 6:54 AM

LAZMANNICK, I don't know about all over the world, but last night when we stopped in to our Cigar Shop to catch the start of the Patriots/Jets game, the group we ride motorcycles with was there...all of them started talking to me about Zenyatta, who was she, where did she come from...when I brought up Rachel Alexandra, they ALL knew who she was and all about her races...the other horse they know (still) is that "little horse who won the kentucky Derby:...

So I don't know/care the "world" but up here in the Northeast they know RA, MTB and now Zen...

da3hoss 23 Nov 2009 7:00 AM

LDP,

I don't have to check any tip, I already know he wasn't in the race, I meant it sarcastically, I knew he won't in the classic, because he was metiocre and lightweight and not good enough, on good enough for RA to beat.

carolyn rogers 23 Nov 2009 7:01 AM

A response to a Vic Zast column cited more Woodward winners than BC Classic winners taking HOY in the last 15 years.  

Mmmm . . . mmmm. . . mmmm. . . RACHEL ALEXANDRA

ZENYATTA NADA 23 Nov 2009 10:08 AM

LINDA

Obviously it "went over your head" cause you referred to what you would do if you owned her,race her everywhere,etc. My point is you don't own her,ok? If the connections can live w/ how they handled Zenyatta,THEN IT SHOULDN"T BE A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE ELSE! Speaking of not understanding you must have that problem when you recently stated that she isn't great. She has shown every quality that illustrated what a great horse is about! Face it,I'm certain neither one of us will change our opinion!

Mike Relva 23 Nov 2009 11:14 AM

Rachel won't run in the Dubai World cup - the surface will be synthetic.  If JJ won't run her on "plastic" on CA, then why would he ship her that far to run on it in the Dubai World Cup? I'd say the Arc would be more likely, but then again not probable as it's a mile and a half.

Diane J 23 Nov 2009 11:18 AM

Funnycide, You are wasting your time with Carolyn. She loves Zenyatta, but knows very little about horse racing, so trying to explain things is going to be a very hard task for you, so you would be better off just not trying. Greg, it was race 5, Touche won and was 22-1, and I boxed 2,3,9, my daughter's b -day. I must admit I got lucky, b/c i was leaning towards the 4, but I always throw 6 bucks on the 239 if there are enough horses. Actually hit 4 times on Fri with the ex and the tri. What was even easier was the late p4 on Saturday. Chalk, Chalk, Chalk, 3rd choice paid 880.00 for a dollar. Had to try to beat Warrior's Reward in the last, and the winner was 8-1 morning line, went off at 18-1. I had a good weekend. Have a bankroll for Thursday. For all of the handicapper's out there, the favorite at post time is winning over 50% at CD this meet, and you can hit at least 2 tri's a day betting the 3 top choices on at post time, CD has been really chalky this meet.

Billy's Empire 23 Nov 2009 11:30 AM

I wouldn't want to be the connections that receive "Horse of the Year" honors.

The wrath and backlash from the public would not be one I would want to entertain.

You would be known as the connections that stole "Horse of the Year" from "the other deserving candidate".

Whoever doesn't win "Horse of the Year" will be respected. The other will be known as the thief.

Horse of the Year 23 Nov 2009 11:35 AM

if you bet the top three choices at post time in all races yesterday at CD, and boxed them, you would of made $270.00 r4 paid 238, race 5 paid 35, and race 8 paid 120.00. too bad I was not at the track yesterday. It was rib week for football sunday. I feel like crap today...

Billy's Empire 23 Nov 2009 11:37 AM

Who wins?

Clark H. --Einstein, Misremembered, Macho Again, Anak Nakal

Matriarch- Diamondrella or Ventura.

Cigar Mile- Vineyard Haven or Quality Road(dray, we know your answer).Lets have fun this week and talk about things that maybe can happen, not what happened. We all know everyones opinion at this point.

Billy's Empire 23 Nov 2009 11:50 AM

Shaggy, aka E.Smith, Commonsense, or Pasturelands. who do you want to be called today, Possibly Syble.

Rachel not as legendary as Zenyatta 23 Nov 2009 12:09 PM

You tell me who's better?

Zenyatta:

14 Starts: 14 - 0 - 0, $5,474,580

Rachel Alexandra

14 Starts: 11 - 2 - 0, $2,948,354

The frightening thing is:

Zenyatta never had the chance to run in the lucrative and rich 2yr old and 3yr old stake races.

Assault 23 Nov 2009 12:11 PM

Thanks Jason--very well said.  I had to chuckle AND groan when I saw the 3rd posting immediately start bashing Jess Jackson.  I would have thought that your comments would have garnered a bit more respect across the board.  But then I guess that shows the human mentality.  You'd never find a horse bashing anyone's character.  Actually, I think MY apaloosa should be HOY--why?--because she's special and I love her!

el 23 Nov 2009 2:02 PM

Lazmannick.  Good point regarding

"Rachel who?"  This is what happens when turf writers cast their ballots in September.  Bias! Bias! Bias!  

Householder 23 Nov 2009 2:09 PM

R-E-D-S-K-I-N-S hail to the chief.! Oh wait, they Stink!!

Billy's Empire 23 Nov 2009 2:14 PM

It's an absolute fact that RACHEL ALEXANDRA ducked the Breeders Cup. Fact. Avoiding ZENYATTA is not how you unseat ZENYATTA.

Mike S 23 Nov 2009 2:45 PM

Experts know that winning the Classic is everything in racing-Sea the Stars ducked the classic because his camp knew they would lose-

steve s 23 Nov 2009 2:46 PM

Hey Mickey I agree with you and your counterpoints against AJ , and  Greg Meow JJ isn't a old geezer he's a

PHONY!!!

The Phantom 23 Nov 2009 3:45 PM

Draynay, I guess that was your sarcastic way of agreeing with me? I'll get off the blog if you insist...

To All Rachel Alexandra fans, I think you might like this video. It's nothing we haven't seen before, but it's REALLY well done. Enjoy:

www.youtube.com/watch

funnycideoflife 23 Nov 2009 4:47 PM

THE PHANTOM

Thanks for saying that. Have you read Linda's posts?

Mike Relva 23 Nov 2009 5:16 PM

mararacing, thank you for taking the time to post.  I spent 5 teenage years working for a man who owned and trained standardbreds, his horses didn't win very often but he loved it, and so did I.

Oldie 23 Nov 2009 5:36 PM

I'm going to defend Carolyn, and not because she's a diehard Zenyatta fan.  She has said she is new and trying to learn by asking questions (also putting her heart out there in a kind of scrappy manner!)  

I wish I would have had a computer and these blogs when I first became interested in racing.  I had to rely on the library to learn, that and skulking around race books to hear what horseplayers were talking about.  I heard of the Blood-Horse and wanted to subscribe but couldn't locate a copy and again, no Internet.  If I had had access to forums like this one, I might have been quite obnoxious back then.

So anyhow, Carolyn, ask away!!  And, like many who post here, we all know where you stand!!

Pam S. 23 Nov 2009 5:40 PM

Billy- Misremembered interests me.  Maybe he'll be a price.  I couldn't get past those two in the Matriarch either.  I can't see Vineyard Haven beating Quality Road if they both run their race, but Vineyard Haven is very capable and probably could upset if he steps up.  I'll have to look more closely obviously.

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 6:15 PM

ZenyattaNatta, Don't put to much emphasis in what that writer said about the Woodward races, because every writer says something different. One for Zen the other against her,

Shaggy 23 Nov 2009 6:26 PM

Sexy, you are myself in disguise, Right!!!

Shaggy 23 Nov 2009 6:30 PM

Greg J

One of you're early top 3 Derby choice's is at The Fairgrounds, he just a 5f workout on 11-22.

tcc 23 Nov 2009 6:34 PM

The Phantom, glad to see you back. I get a kick out of you. "Phony" JJ

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 6:36 PM

Carolyn is being honest and asking.  There is nothing wrong with that.  Once again, not accepting new people who want to know racing is not going to get new fans.  We all were new to horse racing at one time.  I'll answer any questions Carolyn wants answered when I can.  Remember, whatever you say is being read by lots of people and coloring how they view you and that will color how they respond and interpret what you say.

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 6:54 PM

funnycideoflife- please don't get off the blog because of what anybody says.  Just keep blogging

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 6:56 PM

And Dray was being sarcastic- he's a huge Rachel Alexandra fan.

Whoever posted as LDP- that's really low.

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 7:01 PM

Sexy.  I don't think the American public could name 3 Preakness winners...although they might get Secretariat.  

Householder 23 Nov 2009 7:16 PM

Thankyou, Pam S,It means alot when people take the time to explain these things.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 7:17 PM

I hope Quality Road can come back from the "Freak Fest."  Man what a good looking horse on/off paper.  

Householder 23 Nov 2009 7:18 PM

Unlike the rest of us, I think Jack Van Berg has seen an HOY horse up close.  I would listen to the man.  

Householder 23 Nov 2009 7:23 PM

What happened to the EURO BOY on here his euros got whipped and havent heard from him since! I agree with the chalk and Churchill its been going very well there unlike aquduect where the favorites never win. By the way anyone see Hansfield on saturday that horse looks like a DEMON out there!

It aint easy being good! 23 Nov 2009 7:23 PM

This Sunday.  Zenyatta day!  Bo, Moss, and Smith...the gang will all be there.  Hollywood Park is giving away a free DVD of all 14 of her wins over Ginger Punch, Hysterical Lady, Life is Sweet, and 2 back to back BC wins over Music Note and the Kentucky Derby and Belmont Winners.  Play it for the family over the holidays.  They will love it.  

Householder 23 Nov 2009 7:31 PM

Carolyn,

    Well with your track record of uneducated and novice sounding coments, coupled with the fact I can't actually hear the tone of your voice, how am I suppose to know that you were being sarcastic, without the least bit of a hint, like maybe a, yeah right, are you kidding, jk? I'm not a mind reader unlike some on hear claim to be and it's kinda hard to dig under the surface, when that is all there is to look at.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 7:35 PM

Sexy and ALL RACHEL FANS:

Look up some of the European blogs and tell me that they don't know who Zenyatta is and yet, of course, they are all keenly aware of Rachel......Then when you get your fill of reading how much they know and respect Zenyatta, check the World Thoroughbred Rankings (as listed below):

• 1 – Sea the Stars (Ire)           135

• 2 – Goldikova (Ire)                130

• 3 – Rip Van Winkle (Ire)       129

• 4 – Fame & Flory (GB)          128

• 5 – Zenyatta (USA)                128

• 6 – Cavalyman (GB)              125

• 6 – Conduit (Ire)                    125

• 6 – Gio Ponti (USA)               125

• 6 – Rachel Alexandra (USA)  125

• 6 – Youmzain (Ire)                 125

Notice that Racahel is listed 3 lb. Below Zenyatta (who is getting ripped off because she defeated RVW and is rated 1 lb. Less than him)........Of course you Rachel fans will find some excuse.

(RACHEL FANS LED BY DRAYNAY LEAD ALL BLOGS IN EXCUSES)!  

The flowing is a caption from the World Thoroughbred Rankings:

“There have been a number of important races run worldwide since the last WTR update, most notably the Breeders Cup series of races in North America. ZENYATTA [128] created history and continued her fourteen win unbeaten sequence in memorable fashion by becoming the first filly or mare ever to defeat the males in the Breeders’ Cup Classic (G1), in the process establishing herself as the top horse on any surface in North America. She defeated two colts who put up career best performances : GIO PONTI [125] (who has been the dominant Turf horse in North America throughout 2009) and the improving British colt TWICE OVER [123] who had earlier annexed the Emirates Airline Champion Stakes (G1) at Newmarket defeating MAWATHEEQ [121 “

Please pay articular attention to the statement:  IN THE PROCESS ESTABLISHING HERSELF AS THE TOP HORSE ON ANY SURFACE IN NORTH AMERICA.

Please notice that they said TOP HORSE and ON ANY SURFACE.

It sure sounds like they know who Zenyatta is to me.

LAZMANNICK 23 Nov 2009 7:38 PM

The librarian in me is just adding information:

Forego was 17 hands even, 2" shorter than Zenyatta.

Zenyatta's racing career spanned 23-1/2 months - November 22, 2007 to November 7, 2009.

Laura 23 Nov 2009 7:45 PM

Carolyn,

    Another little tip, five IS LIGHT. For a champion five is a light race. LIS I believe has seven starts throughout the year, Rachel has eight, Summer Bird has nine. QR who was sidelined by a quarter crack will have seven starts this season should he compete in the Cigar. Gio has eight I believe as well. Last year Zenyatta raced seven times last year and so did Curlin. In 2007 Hard Spun ran ten times, Curlin ran nine, SS ran eight, and Nobiz ran 10. So yes five is LIGHT, for a champion or champion soon to be it is very LIGHT. Also when you consider she NEVER once left her home state it makes it VERY LIGHT. Other than Ghostzapper who won on his pure dominace of spectacular fields show me another horse in the last 10 years that has won HOTY with less than six starts or that did not win some race of stature before his Classic en route to becoming HOTY. You will find only one, Charismatic. Invasor won the Whitney, Pimlico Special, and Woodward, before the Cup. St. Liam won three grade ones prior to his Classic win. Mineshaft ran eight times prior, winning grade ones as well. Azeri dominated her division, racing numberous times, while no male was dominant enough to claim the prize. PG, well he just slaughtered everything except the Derby. As you can see it is not the trend for horses to just arrive at the Classic with three or four races at all, then just be crowned HOTY. The only horses w/ light seasons prior are Zapper and Charismatic, who broke down in the Belmont. Everyone else, even Zapper had padding to fall back on if they lost the Classic or did not show up, by racing in big races or racing in more than four or five races total by the end of the year. So yes, a five race season is light.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 8:02 PM

FunnyCide, you might as well hang on in here like the rest of us. Remember, if you are a fan of one or the other, you're going to squable with someone. We are all fans here, I am a Die Hard Zenyatta fan, to me, she is just perfect and has not done any wrong. Folks on here may find this hard to believe, but I do watch RA races. Everyone thinks I hate the horse herself, but I don't.I love the horses , I don't like their connections. Probably, next year I will follow her also since Zen will retire, I just love horseracing altogether. Hey, get used to squabbing on here, not everyone agrees with our opinions. Don't take it to heart. I don't.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 9:46 PM

Dammit, Laz, I just love how you and footlick,vic s. mike relva and countless others, no how to get the good info, I just love it.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 9:49 PM

Can we stop already?  Zenyatta ran 5 times, culminating in a race that nobody will forget.  She only ran 5 times.  We all know how many times she ran.  What I didn't know was that there is a minimum start requirement to be a champion.  Nor did I know that there was a requirement to run in multiple states.  I wish somebody could point out those rules for me.  What are all the Rachel Alexandra fans afraid of?  The East Coast voters will not let Zenyatta win.  Rachel Alexandra was raced to get HOY.  And why attack Carolyn?  She already has said she just started following racing?  She's expressing opinions and asking questions.  She has that right just like you guys feel you have the right to act like little brats.  If you all know so much and are so wonderful and perfect in your knowledge, be nice and educate her without the smarmy attitudes and childish comments.  I don't have to defend Zenyatta.  She made her own case at the Breeders' Cup.  We're not supposed to bring up the 3 yr old fillies that Rachel Alexandra ran against, but anyone that Zenyatta ran against is fair game.  We're not supposed to talk about the Woodward field except in glowing terms, but the Classic field gets downgraded after it was considered too strong for her to win.  Say any opinions you want, but just be adults.  Feeling important and superior by belittling other people just shows your insecurities.

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 9:54 PM

....."IMPORTANT NEWS FLASH".......

Just released, Someone warn JJ, it is announced that GOLDICOVA is back in trainig for 2010, and they are thinking about the BREEDERS CUP CLASSIC at Churchill Downs, RA has got a filly and a half on her hands.   JJ will probably duck that too if Goldicova is in it.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 10:06 PM

I feel sorry for any horse that has to run against Quality Road on a dry track.  He has never lost a Stakes race on a dry track and I don't expect him to on Saturday.  Look for a track record.

Draynay 23 Nov 2009 10:12 PM

Footlick,

    That is not the first time they did it, they did it a while back on another blog, I can't recall the name or author right now, they've done it on Jason's before and Steve's. Each time post a comment that contraicts my actual opinion, pretty much making me look like some kind a skitzo, no stereo type meant, hypocrite. It's really starting to p/// me off.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 10:41 PM

Dray- He will be very tough as long as he's ok.

Footlick 23 Nov 2009 10:44 PM

Carolyn,

    I've been riding for ten years, watching racing for more than half of that, so I too was once very ignorant to what went on with horses in general. I won't pretend to be an expert on these blogs, cause I'm not, but I'll answer any questions you may have. I know it took me the longest time to learn some of the racing lingo, even when I had background in horses.

While I will not apologize for my opinion and my defence of it, I will for my impatience and aggressiveness towards you and the RA matter. For quite a while after the BC all I did was post objective view points and kudo's to Zen. Now after reading all the RA bashing w/o responding for so long, I've kinda taken my frustration out on the nearest person, sorry. I know ppl don't like JJ, I know they may think Zen is better, but that should not result in bashing either horse. When I come on, when I've come on more recently I try to bring facts to back up what I feel. Again, sorry for the impatience show towards you.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 10:48 PM

Jason,

Have you finished off that Humble Pie yet?

If you have a slice left, serve it up to Draynay for all those Breeders Cup  winners he gave us.

Assault 23 Nov 2009 10:51 PM

Also, just to give everyone notice, on my blog I've been following a filly named Cuvee Uncorked. I saw her at DE Park on my birthday, where she won her second race in a row, staying unbeaten. She finish a good second in her first stakes try shortly after that, then came back to win the Poker Night Stakes. I know the owners and they have her nominated for the Gazelle and Top Flight, but are leaning towards the latter where amoung others she will meet Flashing and Sara Louise. She is a very talented filly, and I just wanted to give you all a heads up on her.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 10:53 PM

Carolyn,

    A note, from what I read Goldi is coming back to run in the Mile for a third time. This is what the source I read said. It is great that she is coming back. I for one had thought they would retire her. So amoung the Euros coming back we have Rip, Goldi, and Dar Re Mi. Nice cast I think.

LDP 23 Nov 2009 10:55 PM

Gosh, I read one place Goldicova will run in the classic, then I read that it may be the mile. Either place they run her, RA is in the race with her she will have a filly and a half to contend with.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 10:59 PM

Go Quality Road. I think he was just having a bad day, He looked over and saw that beautiful Mare Zenyatta, and it just tore his nerves up. He wanted to be her mate, I bet.

carolyn 23 Nov 2009 11:07 PM

LDP, Charismatic ran 10 times in 1999 as a 3 year old, including all three TC races and the Santa Anita Derby. So that is an incorrect statement. Not to mention that he had 7 starts as a two year old.

The two, filly and mare both ran in Grade 1 races. If you've run in them you know they're no cakewalk. So enough with that already. They met common opponents so that's the measure. As long as the guys/girls who are with them all 24/7 said their horses were okay on the surface we're supposed to listen to people who've never trained a horse for any kind of race?

Truthfully there are a lot of inaccuracies in a lot of these comments.

As for all of y'all calling each other out and saying the others are being disrespectful? Some of those saying that are the worst ones.

We love the fans, the interest and the passion but at some point it becomes more harmful than helpful or promoting of racing.

Nothing y'all can do about it. Surely theres something else to discuss besides the same comments over and over?

I think that was an excellent suggestion to let the HOF trainers or at the least the trainers make the choice. We may seem to be homers but believe it or not we do know a little more than the average guy and we actually can have an unbiased opinion now and then. No more of an agenda than the writers and all the rest of the voters have.

GeoRA 23 Nov 2009 11:35 PM

GeorgeRA: I think I know who you are. I appreciate you checking in with your opinions. I tried to get the bickering to stop on this particular blog, to no avail.

Anyway, regarding the voting process, I dont think there is any doubt that trainers have more knowledge than the writers. That is indisputable. However, letting trainers vote for Eclipse Awards is not a good idea. You guys are too close to each other and the close alliances formed with one another leaves the door open for too many potential problems. You dont see managers voting for year-end awards in baseball or head coaches voting for awards in football. There is a reason for that. You'd like to think most would be objective in voting process, but there is no guarentee of that. Im sure you could see where the potential problems lie. Writers vote in all major sports because, in part, it is our job to remain objective. Trainers have loyalties to certain owners and probably know too much for their own good about their peers. I think you know what Im getting at.

jshandler 23 Nov 2009 11:59 PM

Carolyn:

All I can say is that it is wise to ignore those people that don’t want to cut you any slack because you are basically new to racing and are definitely not one to hide your passion for the sport and in particular for Zenyatta.  Keep it up and keep on asking questions.  That’s a great way to speed up the learning process.  Don’t be offended by the few that choose to be arrogant.  They are really very few and far between.  Most on this blog, including the moderators, are super.  We might josh each other, and sometime come on a little strong, but it is always in good faith.  LOL

LAZMANNICK 24 Nov 2009 12:13 AM

LDP- I would feel the same way.  I was going to say I can't believe somebody would do that, but I've been on these blogs for a minute now, so unfortunately I can.  I think that we know your views well enough that we would look at a statement and think, "how interesting".  Now, at least we can say it must be the pretend LDP-lol!  Hopefully the person doing it will stop.

Footlick 24 Nov 2009 12:24 AM

In this 2009 year alone, Rachel Alexandra:

1) has set TWO stakes records for time in: Martha Washington, Mother Goose.

2) has set TWO stakes records for largest winning margin in: Kentucky Oaks, Mother Goose

3) was the ONLY horse (male or female) ever to win the Preakness from the far outside gate

4) was the ONLY female EVER to win the Woodward

5) TWICE, came within 1 second of breaking the TRACK RECORDS (at Belmont and Monmouth)

6) had the HIGHEST Beyer Speed rating this year of 116. (The Haskell)

She deserves HOY more than any horse!

As to the argument: "Zenyatta beat out the same horses", but think about it, she beat them on a synthetic track that those (usually dirt) horses are NOT used to running on! Zenyatta had a major advantage because she was running on synthetics the whole year! It would be unfair to judge Horse of the YEAR on the Classic because of it!!

ThePixiePoet 24 Nov 2009 12:24 AM

Rachel Alexandra beat more horses, more times, more males, over the competitions' prefered track surface, in faster times, with larger winning margins, breaking stakes records, and coming within a second of track records, with higher Beyer Speed figures ... ALL YEAR ...

ThePixiePoet 24 Nov 2009 12:25 AM

LDP- We are all guilty of getting impatient.  I get that way too.  And I've tried not to blog as much and I always get sucked back in!!!  Alot of times I'm in the middle of a response and I think "What am I doing?" and delete it before I send it.  So I say those things to remind myself as well as others.  But I'm guilty of impatience as much as anyone- especially if I ever posted half of what I delete-lol!

Footlick 24 Nov 2009 12:31 AM

Mr. GeoRA,

    Well Said! But, It seems it will fall on deaf ears, The same comments will just keep repeating themselves over and over until Jan. 18th., I hope I am wrong, But, Probably not!  Like you said, Some people just don't get it, By repeating the same put downs of certain trainers and owners, They are doing more harm then good.  As far as other things, I am really looking forward to Unbridled Belle finishing her great career on a winning note on Thanksgiving, It will be tough against Swift Temper, But, I would Love to see Morena finish right behind Belle!  Finally, Hope a certain Mare comes back stronger then ever this spring at Churchill Downs come Derby Week :)

Greg J. 24 Nov 2009 1:27 AM

For fun, I wish that someone would post a list of all ongoing HOY polls all over the internet.  Also Include a list of the solid industry experts picks- the handicappers, the top trainers, columnists.

And when were done with that, let's start debating future Z babies vs. R babies.  Fun, fun, fun.

UNSTARTED HORSE OF THE YEAR 2009- GRAND FORKS

ZENYATTA NADA 24 Nov 2009 3:57 AM

Thanks everyone for your help when I asked questions. I really enjoy horseracing, I don't bet on them, I just like the stars themselves, I have always loved horses. I have aways been one of the people that watched the Derby and one other leg of the of the crown, Look, l didn't even know that horses raced everyday and that it was all these races until last year, and after I got TVG channel on my cable t.v. also, in larger part to the internet now. So, yeah I am not familiar with the lingo. I did start really getting into it last year after the derby and BB, Curlin, Zenyatta.   LDP, you are a DIE HARD RA fan as well as I am a Zen fan, I truly respect that , I know how you feel and others feel about that. Look, I love the horse herself, like I said, nothing against RA, I am not to fond of her connections. But, Zenyatta stole my heart last year and I have been following her since then, And I don't care who gets the award, it won't take anything away from Zenyatta and her legacy and place in history. We both feel like that the horse that we love deserves it,  I don't care who gets it.  Blogging is all about Opinions, and not everyone is going to agree with you, so yeah, when you blog you are opening the door for disagreements and agreements, they come together. We all have to agree to disagree.

carolyn 24 Nov 2009 6:48 AM

 Well said Jason.

 I believe people care about who is awarded Horse of the Year because the award is a determination of worthiness, and it seems to be a big part of human nature to have your own opinions on such a judgement validated.  It's also the same reason that it doesn't matter in the long run, because the award is based on opinions, and the fun thing about opinions is that every individual is always right.  

 I also agree with those that say it is a debate about surfaces.

Does it mean that Zenyatta isn't awesome?  No.  Does it mean Californian racing sucks?  No.  But we have well over a century of dirt racing to back up Rachel Alexandra's campaign as one of the best, if not the best, for a three year old filly, ever.  Zenyatta's campaign this year, coming over a surface that is more like grass (which is why the challenge to fine mares who've run a 2:00 1 1/4 but not on grass as comparison sounds silly to me) but the industry keeps insisting upon treating like dirt, makes it much harder to determine what, exactly, she did.  Yes, she won the Breeder's Cup Classic, it is what it is.  And yes, I know she can run on dirt.  But (and I'm hoping this all makes sense), this year she didn't.  She won the Classic on a surface that plays like grass, in a Championship series that has seen two fillies win the Breeder's Cup Turf and five(?) win the Breeder's Cup Mile.  Looked at like that, what do you do with that?  The asterisk that many want to attach doesn't, I think, belong next to Zenyatta's name, but next to the surface performed on.  Now, does that mean she doesn't deserve HotY?  Sure there's a great case for her.  But Rachel Alexandra also deserves it, and while I personally believe that there should be an option for dual honors (because I find equal value in what each did), with a knife to my throat, Rachel did do more this year than Zenyatta did.  I will even admit that had the Classic been run on dirt and Zenyatta won, Rachel still did more throughout the year.  Of course, that would have changed who ran where, but again, speculative history.  Will it matter in the end?  Probably not. : )

 Also, as much as I love Zenyatta and think that her retiring undefeated is fantastic (though I'd love to see her try the 2010 World Cup), I have to say in response to an earlier post I saw... in my opinion, Curlin had a better 2007-2008 than Zenyatta did 2008-2009.  For me, this is not a surface thing, it's a challenge/travel thing.  What blows my mind is what we could have seen from Big Z if she'd been challenged more in her career.  Ah, well, can't complain. How lucky are we who are here now, to have seen this amazing, extraordinary year of racing?  Actually, looking back at horse racing in the last decade, we've seen some pretty amazing horses, worldwide.  Good stuff.  

V 24 Nov 2009 6:50 AM

Greg J, are you in Louisville?

Quality Road is most likely going to be running on an OFF track again as there is a 50% chance of rain for Saturday. So, again, we will not see him at his best.

Footlick, Misremembered peaks my interest as well. A lot of capper's here will discount him as a west coast horse, but he does his better runnning on dirt. I am hoping for a price on him.

Last note, our 2yo colt is running on Thanksgiving, in the last race. Ready to Strike. Let's hope he just gets a good showing out of his first start. J Court rides and breaks from the 3 spot. Could be an off track, so anything can happen. Wish me luck.

Happy Turkey day to all.

Shandler, I will look for you on Friday.

Billy's Empire 24 Nov 2009 9:05 AM

Footlick,

     lol, I do exactly the same thing!  I feel myself responding to the same idiotic posters, Then I realize it is pointless, Nothing will change their tactics or nonsense, So, Now, I just ignore and skip over them and read the educated comments, Which there are alot of, Thank God!

Billy's Empire,

      Wish I was!  Nope, I am Here in cold, rainy Connecticut, Ugh...

And, Yes, The Unstarted Horse of the Year is "Grand Forks", Hope it stays that way!  So releived she was a scratch...

Greg J. 24 Nov 2009 10:16 AM

Billy's Empire,

      I forgot to wish you luck with "Ready to Srike", Good Luck!  At 12/1 Morning Line, I will be playing him, Of course to Win :)

Greg J. 24 Nov 2009 10:21 AM

2 great horses and they will never run against each other so everyone has a opinion who is best.The bashing is amuzing and that's what brings people to the blog, its like congress one side against the other and bash away.This is the American way freedom of speech to express yourself and nothing better then a blog to vent.If everyone agreed who'd read blogs and make comments.Next year new stars will appear and debates will continue , relax let everyone have their opinion and chill out I doubt if anyone's life depends on who wins's HOTY.you still have to pay your taxes !lol

2 time valley player of the year 24 Nov 2009 10:46 AM

Billy's Empire- Good luck with Ready to Strike!  Court is a good jock, good record in KY.  As far as an off track, Pletcher doesn't think it really bothers Quality Road that much.  And a mile is a better distance for him, but it's a solid field.  We'll see!  Good luck again on Thanksgiving.

Footlick 24 Nov 2009 10:59 AM

My choice for HOY goes to Zenyatta. Her Breeders Cup Classic win on a surface that is not her best clinches it. Her connections have repeated numerous times that her best surface is dirt and not the fake crap. To become the first filly and first undefeated horse to win the Classic and do it on a surface that was not her best was truly amazing. In fact no horse including RA will likely ever accomplish that again.

The debate over the surface is pure nonsense in my book. RA was a dirt only horse this year and Zenyatta ran on the fake crap. So what?

Two factors really seal the deal here. First off the connections of RA were scard to run against Zenyatta on dirt to begin with. As reported in one of Steve Haskins blogs Zenyatta's connections had all the arrangements made and were ready to ship Zenyatta all the way across the country to face RA in the Beldame if RA entered. RA ducked the race and Zenyatta went in the Lady's Secret instead. You can't hold that against Zenyatta when they were prepared to be the ones who travelled to face RA on her surface of choice at her best distance. Knowing that the poly only crap doesn't fly. Time to get off that one.

Secondly Zenyatta's connections not only were willing to face RA on her turf but they put her undefeated carreer on the line against the best field they could find at a distance she had never travelled. RA was a no show and Zenyatta wrote history on that day. I put a great deal of emphasis on backing your claim to an award like this not by ducking your competition but by challenging the best you can find and beating them. Simply put Zenyatta did just that and RA falls far short.

I truly wish that Zenyatta and RA would have faced off in the Beldame. I think Zenyatta would have erased any questions about who was better and won. I also believe RA's connections knew that and chose not to lose their shot at HOY.

Show up or shut up. Zenyatta was ready and RA was not.

the_wiz 24 Nov 2009 11:39 AM

Jason,

To touch base on the idea of HOF Trainers or Trainers in general voting for HOY Honors:

I see both sides of the argument and see a different way to do things. There are other sports who vote on MVP's in more way than one and I think it would be great to do so here as well. In those cases there have been awards given by the writers and players seperately. Ask any player and they would almost always agree the award coming from their peers means far more than from the writers. (nothing against you as a writer intended here) Why not have HOY voted on by the writers but add another HOY award that is voted on by the Trainers and Jockeys? I for one would like to see that.

the_wiz 24 Nov 2009 11:49 AM

Rachel was the first filly to win the Preakness in 85 years, indeed, but since 1980, she was merely the fifth to attempt the race.

Rachel is the victim of the quality of her competition. The only horse behind her that has been any good is Summer Bird.

Mine That Bird will not win another Grade I event in his life. He's just another Giacomo.

When are we going to get a stellar colt that we can all get behind. We've had at least 2 duds in the last 10 years. Giacomo and now Mine That Bird. These 2 fired on Derby Day, but were duds the rest of their careers (after the triple crown trail).

Rachel really looks bad in her preakness because Mine that Bird couldn't beat a horse like "Big Drama" in the West Virginia Derby.

Count Fleet 24 Nov 2009 12:31 PM

Big Drama would have been a serious race horse if he had had a good trainer in his camp

steve s 24 Nov 2009 1:13 PM

Jason I have to disagree with you regarding HOY. Zenyatta deserves it over RA. Not one of the older horses RA beat in the Woodward even started in ANY BC races, not one. Zenyatta carried highweight in a handicap, giving 15 lbs to the 2nd place horse. And she's undefeated beating the best of the world in a race that she was compromised in because the early speed was scratched at the gate. But enough..................Why do we care so much? Because of the horses, yes they don't know what's going on, but they are both extroidinary horses and there is an argument for both of them to be HOY. Those that are debating have a passion for the horse and that is why there is this ongoing debate. The horse..........

Vita 24 Nov 2009 1:17 PM

Someone mentioned Universal Place to win last time-with better Post and needs good turf rider to get job done thursday at Hol

steve s 24 Nov 2009 1:30 PM

If Quality Road runs Saturday-lets hope there no rain and hope for a new Jockey in tow-a fresh start

steve s 24 Nov 2009 2:06 PM

Wiz,

Why is it everyone assumes JJ was ducking anyone?  He had planned to take RA to the Beldame if Z went.  After her Woodward, she was tired having raced 8 times to Z's 3.  Z was a much fresher horse.  I hope that they do have a face-off come January or February.  That would be great and great for racing.

MonicaV 24 Nov 2009 3:11 PM

The Grade I "Lady's Secret" renamed in the honor of the great racemare Zenyatta:

www.bloodhorse.com/.../oak-tree-honors-zenyatta-with-grade-i-race

Assault 24 Nov 2009 3:49 PM

Quality Road...No more blindfolds.

Householder 24 Nov 2009 3:50 PM

Monica , RA was tired ?If the BC was at a track the Phony j liked would she be tired -that's funny are you her vet lol.First all the RA fans rave about her beating all the fillies by cab rides while galloping and that made her so  tired to skip the BC hilarous? As for all the raving about the Haskell and Woodward , Preakness lets compare how many of you think that the Haskell is a more prestigous race to win then the Travers [summer Derby]?Would you as a owner prefer to win the, Belmont, Travers, Gold Cup  or the Eddie Haskell[Beaver fame], Woodward,  Preakness.Now lets see who picks the Haskell over the Travers , Preakness over the Belmont ,Woodward over Gold Cup and why? Speak up RA fans show your racing intelligence, the phony could have entered her in those 3 but didn't!I know Mickey would go with T,B,GC what about you Greg meow, pixie poet Dray,AJ,Dahoss,Billy the roman empire,Carolyn,LDP,laz, k swiss cheese, footlick and you to Jason?

The Phantom 24 Nov 2009 4:55 PM

Rachel's done for the year, but still in light training.  With Zenyatta getting all of the BC buzz, and perhaps unfairly challenging the clear winner- RACHEL- should Jess run her one more time this year . . .

She's rested.  Her HOY is threatened.  She loves the Fairgrounds.   Any possibility . . .

ZENYATTA NADA 24 Nov 2009 4:58 PM

Vita, it's really very simple.

Zenyatta had a great race but Rachel had a great SEASON.

Draynay 24 Nov 2009 5:03 PM

Vineyard vs Quality Road ?  Wow. Now that is the best match up all year.

Draynay 24 Nov 2009 5:05 PM

the Phantom- sometimes you make me smile-lol. But, if I stated anything it would just be repetition.  

Footlick 24 Nov 2009 5:54 PM

Dray- It is a nice match-up, but there are a few others in there could surprise

Footlick 24 Nov 2009 5:55 PM

Draynay how are you doing it's Chuck from Beulah Park.  Did you notice the display name?  Thanks for giving us that horse it changed our whole day.  Hi Jason.  Draynay told me to check on the blog and all you people are funny.  We sat behind Draynay's table and they were cheering after just about every race.  He was telling everyone who would listen to bet Brad's My Hero at Aqueduct and the Breeders Cup races were not paying us so we bet him on top with 4 other horses and we won 516.00 bucks.  I see a few people give you a hard time on here but let me be the first to thank you for a great time and thanks for picking up the check for our table we all had a great time and we will never forget Brad's My Hero. Everyone in Lancaster knows the story now and my wife can't wait to meet your wife down if Florida.

Bradsmyhero 24 Nov 2009 6:34 PM

Unbelievable!! Santa Anita is renaming the Lady's Secret for Zenyatta!!  No wonder the younger generation will never know or appreciate any of the older horses!  If they want to name a race after her then create a new race, don't take this race away from a true champion and daughter of the great Secretariat!  Why not rename a bunch of races for all the horses that won a BC race at Santa Anita this year!  Stupidity is truly amazing!

NikkiVet 24 Nov 2009 6:48 PM

Zenyatta is a pretty good horse. I like her. She's hickory.

Set a track record at Del Mar

Carried 129 pounds in Grade I Vanity

Breeders Cup Classic winner

Breeders Cup Ladies Classic winner

Undefeated (14 - 0 - 0)

All-time North American Earnings Leader (filly/mare) $5,474,580

8x Grade I winner

4x Grade II winner

Beat 2007 Breeders Cup Distaff Champion twice

Beat 2009 Breeders Cup Ladies Classic Champion three times

Beat 8 Grade I males in the Breeders Cup Classic

All 2008 Apple Blossom runners that Zenyatta beat came back to win their next start.

Closed her last 1/16 mile at Del Mar in 5 and change

Closed her last 1/4 mile at Santa Anita in 23 and change

I wish we had her one more year. :+)

I'm greedy.

Cascapedia 24 Nov 2009 6:59 PM

DRAYNAY

I've been attempting to ask what do you think of the horse,Take Control? He's trained by Baffert.

Mike Relva 24 Nov 2009 7:01 PM

Has Rachel Alexandra ever set a track record in her career?

I know that Zenyatta set a track record at Del Mar (2008 Clement Hirsch).

Track Records 24 Nov 2009 7:04 PM

Monica please get the facts correct-You have it backwards, Zenyatta connections entered the Beldame, but withdrew when RA was a complete NO show.

HOY belongs to Zenyatta, simple fact and everybody know that this is true. Answer this question, do you really believe that RA would have won the BCC this year? If you think she would have beaten this top class field, you need to have your head examined.

rhoward 24 Nov 2009 8:08 PM

NikkiVet:  Whenever I need a "Pick-me-up" I Youtube Lady's Secret's 1986 Breeder's Cup Distaff at 1 1/4!  46 and change for the 1/2 "Come and catch all 900 lbs. of me!"  Pat Day's finest hour.  Lukas...what a master with the Ladys.  RA reminds me a lot of Lady's Secret.

Track Records.  Good point.  That track record at Del Mar also includes boys!

Householder 24 Nov 2009 8:11 PM

Mike Relva,

The racing operations of Bob Baffert thinks "Lookin at Lucky" is a franchise colt.

Bob believes this colt will win his fourth Kentucky Derby.

At this moment, no one compares to "Lookin at Lucky" in his racing operation.

Assault 24 Nov 2009 8:17 PM

NikkiVet

As much as I love Zenyatta and am one of her biggest supporters......I totally agree with you........My reason is that we are slighting (or forgetting) one great mare for another one.......Zen is special, especially in Cali......Why not create a special G-1 Invititational and name it after Zenyatta?

LAZMANNICK 24 Nov 2009 8:20 PM

Chuck ! What's up ? Shhhh.  What is wrong with you? People may start thinking I am nice.  Yes, we had a lot of fun that day go Brad's My Hero ! Mike I don't know anything about the horse so I really can't comment the only two I like so far is Dublin and Don't Blame the Cat really looks good first time out. Footlick there are a few others that could surprise? Your not serious are you?  Only Quality Road is good enough to keep up with Vineyard.

Draynay 24 Nov 2009 8:47 PM

NikkieVet:

Get used to it. It happens all the time.

Zenyatta is a better mare than Lady's Secret. I've seen them both in person.

There are only so many Grade I stakes races at a meeting. This is not unusual, and actually it is "unusual" to think differently.

Assault 24 Nov 2009 8:55 PM

Phantom, I agree with you 100%, all the way,

carolyn 24 Nov 2009 8:56 PM

In the Novenber 14 09 issue of the BloodHorse Gary Player said all that needs to be said regarding a Champion.

The nine time international major Championship winner had a message for the owners of Rachel and Sea of Stars which was you never want to duck the competition and stop with the excuses about tracks.

The Champion stated that he would never not show for a Championship because he did not like the course or the course did not suit him.

Player stated that "if you are a Champ you get in there, and you play against the whole damn lot and beat them. That is the real sign of a Champion"

To me that says it all with regards to who should be HOY. One put it all on the line and one did not.

A message should be sent for the good of the sport. Duck the World Championships when healthy and able to run and the voting is close, you loose. You let this go on and the Breeders Cup is cheapened.

I mean, who does not show up to the Super Bowl? Last they need to do something with who votes for the HOY with all the East Coast bias and their greater numbers at the ballet box.

You duck the competition on Championship day for nothing but a cry baby reason your horse is no HOY, period.

Sonny 24 Nov 2009 8:57 PM

All I can say is "WOW", My goodness, Now they are renaming a race in honor of Zenyatta, I am thrilled, and so excited but I can't believe it.  I got to give Californians one thing, they stand behind Zenyatta. She deserves it, she has done alot for that state.

carolyn 24 Nov 2009 9:49 PM

Phantom, it's really quite low of you to insult Mr. Jackson like that for deciding that the BC wasn't in Rachel's best interest. There are so many other owners that deserve much harsher criticism. What about the people who allow their "slow" horses to be sent to slaughter? Or to be left neglected in a field? How about the owners who try to milk as much out of each horse as they can, so they allow their horses to be injected with every pain reliever and steroid in the book just to make a buck? Mr. Jackson shouldn't be a pinata when other owners shouldn't be allowed in horse racing period.

funnycideofelife 24 Nov 2009 10:10 PM

Phantom

I want to be your agent.

LAZMANNICK 24 Nov 2009 10:15 PM

DRAYNAY

Thanks! Have a good holiday.

Mike Relva 24 Nov 2009 10:37 PM

Hey all you rabid RA fans  aren't any of you going to brag that you'd prefer as a owner to run and  win the Haskell, Woodward and Preakness as the phony did then the Travers, Gold Cup  and Belmont are the former 3 races more prestigous or tougher then the latter 3? What have you all become Houdini acts? LOL, See Joanie of Arc the phony ducked those 3 races, for shorter distances  and weaker comp.For all you  fans who applaud  the phony for racing her against the boys  should we do the same for him ducking and not supporting the BC?

 

the Phantom 24 Nov 2009 10:38 PM

I know this is off topic but what's new around here.  Hialeah is opening soon and although I have yet to step foot at Saratoga I find it hard to believe anything can compare to Hialeah.  I spent many a day at Hialeah and have a lot of great memories and I am excited to make more.  Since I am moving back down to Florida full time June 1st it is easy for me to suggest a blog party on opening day of thoroughbred racing at Hialeah.  Trust me when I tell you it will be worth the trip.  What a great thing for racing to have Hialeah back where it belongs...racing!

Draynay 24 Nov 2009 11:07 PM

Carolyn,

If you're a horse, and you'd been LIVING for YEARS in California non-stop, the LEAST you could expect is a STATUE in your honor (READ: MASCOT).  But a race re-named into yours, is close enuf!! LOL. They can re-name ANY race, and it won't make any difference.. its still same old same old race.. LOL.  Why the fuss??

PHANTOM,

Get a life! The problem is NOT Rachel's competition--its YOU!! You have no appreciation of Greatness, even if it WALLOPED you on the head.  

Even if I tell you the ACHIEVEMENTS of Rachel versus the EXCITEMENT over Zenyatta, I would just be repeating myself. Again.

Feelings change, BUT big, solid achievemnts are more DURABLE coz they are facts.

FACT IS Rachel is the BEST champion racehorse in North America.  Everybody said it--ESPN, NBC, DRF, NTRA, NY Post, Washington, Settle Post--who else do you want to declare it?  BARACK OBAMA?

Zenyatta is the Official Mascot of California, big deal!  But RACHEL IS THE HORSE OF THE YEAR 2009!!

Woohoo! GO, BABY, GO, Rachel!  We love you!!

k-Swiss 25 Nov 2009 5:48 AM

Look Everyone, People say that Zenyatta is so good on synthetics, does everyone forget that RA ran and won on these tracks at Keeneland, look, JJ knew that, he could have very well trained her on these and sent her to the BCC, Fact is, he didn't want to go up against Zenyatta, because he knew RA would never be able to beat Zenyatta, I believe RA wouldn't beat Zenyatta on dirt. Zenyatta is a big girl with long strides, and she has a whole lot of gears that haven't been tested yet! I believe Zenyatta could win at Dubai if she ran, I don't think it isn't anything that Zen can't run on, She tolerates synthetics because she is so big and with her long strides thats why she is able to run so well on them. She was also a firecracker in the Appleblossom last year, she can run on anything, I believe. RA can too, because RA has ran and won on synthetics, it was two factors why RA didn't go to the classic and race on Synthetics more,

1) Wounded Pride-JJ was afraid that RA couldn't win like Curlin,

2) Zenyatta- point blank, JJ didn't want RA to race Zenyattta, he knows that Zen can run on anything, and that she is like a powerfull locomotive coming down the track and she will catch if she has too. I don't believe JJ would race RA against Zenyatta on dirt either, JJ knows for sure that" IF ZEN IS IN IT...SHE WILL WIN IT".... If Zenyatta was running again next year, JJ would dodge her like a bullet. The number one factor for Zen, is her excellent jockey, all Mike has to do is give her the signal and she takes it from there, Shake her reigns and she knows it's time to go.   He knows her so well. I don't blame JJ for not putting RA against bigger more talented horses, he puts her were he knows she can win. Thats why he ducked the BCC,and synthetics altogether,He was afraid that any race in Cali or on synthetics, that surely Zen could be there and he didn't want any part of her. JJ knew RA raced and won on synthetics and could have trained more on them, bottom line, it was Zenyatta. After the BCC, I know that RA would never win a race with Zenyatta. Zen wins at 8.5 furlongs, 9 furlongs, 10 furlongs, bottom line is, she just wins.

carolyn 25 Nov 2009 6:59 AM

BloodHorse HOY Vote:

It's not hard to figure out that the current trend on the HOY vote is being manipulated........You can actually vote as many times as you want.  That's the reason that Rachel is closing the gap, not because all of a sudden these knew Rachel fans are stepping up and voting for the first time......NICE TRY RACHEL FANS.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 9:32 AM

Great story!  Glad to hear Quality Road is off to Florida and the Donn.

I will be there to take pictures and I promise to send some here.  I will go with Vineyard to smoke them in the Cigar.  Quality Road and Rachel are going to hook up some time racing in 2010 is going to be a break out year !!!

Draynay 25 Nov 2009 1:00 PM

Quality Road scratched from the Cigar Mile........This looks like the best decision.  Let him have some time off and regroup, put on a little weight and get ready for a big 2010 season.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 1:03 PM

carolyn.  4 more days until Zenyatta Day at Hollywood Park and then she's entered into the Rose Parade.  I hope her trainer also brings Sweet Catomine's full sister Life is Sweet to the big show.  Let's hear it for $60,000 dollar purchases and homebreds.  

Quality Road is off seeing the county once again.  On to Florida.  He may get used to all the sight seeing and forget how to run!  Cudos to his connections though for recognizing he's not yet 100% after the freak fest.  He's a magnificent looking colt up close.  

Householder 25 Nov 2009 1:28 PM

k-Swiss

Yeah, but KMAD on the moon and SMDH on Venus said that Zen is a shoe in.  Why?  Because Zenyatta is absolutely out of this world.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 1:31 PM

Good point Carolyn.  Informed Decision was 7 for 7 on the synthetics.  Do we give the Eclipse award to Indian Blessing?  

Householder 25 Nov 2009 1:36 PM

Lazmannick,

     I thought that too, But, Bloodhorse Operations manager, Chris Dawahare, Wrote this regarding the Poll:

"Let me emphasize that these results are completely driven by the BloodHorse.com community, and there is nothing "fishy" about the results as some have suggested. Individuals are only allowed to vote once, and this is restricted by both IP address and a cookie on your computer. This one is going down to the wire and may be decided by a hanging chad (at last check, there were more than 400 votes cast from the state of Florida). The Poll closes at 11:59 pm EDT on 11/30/2009, so if you haven't already voted, be sure to do so prior to next Monday!"

BTW,

    Lentenor will be at Churchill Downs Saturday in Race 12, A 46K MSW at 1 1/8 Miles, That is all I will say, Ok, I will also guarantee a win, lol...

Greg J. 25 Nov 2009 1:47 PM

Carolyn,

    One thing you should know about synthetics is that they can be about as different from each other as turf is from dirt. The Pro-Ride at Santa Anita is completely different from the quirky Polytrack at Keeneland. A horse could come from Woodbine and run over the Keeneland Poly and finish dead last. A horse coming off Keeneland's poly could go to Cali and just tank. From what I see the tracks in Cali are pretty consistent result wise, but when you go from one coast to another it's a whole new story. Personally that is why I feel if synthetics are to stay we need ONE surface, and for me that would be Cushion track or Tapeta, the latter would be my first preference. So even though RA may have won on the Poly at Keeneland there is no telling what she would do when put on Pro-Ride a year later, after crossing the country.

LDP 25 Nov 2009 2:23 PM

Greg J

I find it hard to believe......I tried it by voting late one night to see if they would catch it.  Strangely, the vote went up by one point.  In any other type vote or poll on the internet, once you cast your vote, you can't even back on to the voting sight.

With regards to a large contingent of votes coming in from Florida......Maybe Draynay is paying some people off.....According to him he is moving there shortly. LOL

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 2:38 PM

LDP & Caroline

It is my understaning that the polytrak at Woodbine is very close to the surface at Keenland and completely different from the California tracks.......It is also my understanding that the four surfaces in California have major differences between them.....I'm not sure how AP and Turfway compare......I think it all reverts back to the manufacturer, the track surface temperature, maintenance programs with regards to harrowing, etc......Also, there are supossed to be variances between the morning and the afternoon and additional variances for nighttime racing......It all boils down to inconsistencies.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 2:45 PM

LAZMANNICK

How are you? Hope you,GREG J and others' have a Great Thanksgiving!

Mike Relva 25 Nov 2009 2:54 PM

Mike Relva

Same to you and everyone else.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 3:15 PM

I want to say that Woodbine, Keenland and Arlington are pretty similar.  The California tracks as far as the comments I've read from trainers are very different from each other.  Everyone have a great Thanksgiving!

Footlick 25 Nov 2009 4:02 PM

They've both had undefeated season's, and Zenyatta has ended with an undefeated career. Hard to imagine that the only filly-mare ever to win the Breeders Cup Classic, against a field of male's that 10 fold surpasses the three combined male field's that Rachel raced, and at a distance that only Zenyatta of the two has raced, 1-1/4, would again be denied HOY. That'll sure be hard to explain away 15 or 20 year's from now. Why an undefeated race mare that beat the best colt's in not only the U.S., but from Europe as well in racing's biggest event, on racing's biggest stage, and finished undefeated didn't get HOY. Nothing Rachel has accomplished this year should or does override that.

John Horton, Jr. 25 Nov 2009 4:21 PM

2 year olds that are on Wynn's Kentucky Derby Future List,that are entered at Churchill this Saturday (11-28).

Race #5

#7339

#7407

#7439

#7454

Race #6

#7527

#7499

#7482

Race #11

#7408

#7412

#7528

#7478

#7520

#7513

#7301

tcc 25 Nov 2009 4:51 PM

Footlick:

One thing I've seen is that horses that race at Woodbine have done well in stakes races at Turfway so maybe the surfaces on those tracks are pretty close too.

LAZMANNICK 25 Nov 2009 7:12 PM

tcc,

     Race 12, #7516...

Greg J. 25 Nov 2009 7:16 PM

Thanks Greg J.

Didn't look past R #11

tcc 25 Nov 2009 10:51 PM

Greg J.

#7345 is at the Fairgronds

tcc 25 Nov 2009 11:02 PM

The Moss's conservative approach is the reason there's a debate at all. If they decided to run Zenyatta (and we'll assume she would have won) against the boys in either the Goodwin or the Pacific Classic, she would be the 2009 HOY. BUT they didn't - it wasn't even  announced the Z Lady would run in the BC Classic until the day of the draw (what were they waiting for?). Simply put - RACHEL ALEXANDRA earned it. She faced the boys three time - traveled 2800 miles (seven tracks/six states/two time zones)during her 2009 campaign - doing what it took 'find' the competition as opposed to the Z Lady who travled a grand total of 258 miles - training only one track all year - staying in her comfort zone. What was RA's home track? Did she have one? The Jackson's took her where she needed to go to win and prove she's the best horse in the world. Sorry - Sea the Stars. Remember that 'Wow' factor we had for Zenyatta after her brilliant win in the Classic - well, WE all had that feeling for RA after her Preakness, Haskell and Woodard wins.

And this is about 2009 - not Zenyatta's perfect career because at the same stages of their career, Zenyatt's first life-time start came in Nov. of her 3-yr old season and - well, you know what RA has accomplished by then.

Why do I care? Because RA fans know it's the AMERICAN WAY that if you work hard, you should be rewarded for your efforts.

Zaskar 26 Nov 2009 8:38 AM

Something I can't understand Jason? Everyone (RA fans) wants to see Zenyatta get "Champion Older Female " award, but not HOTY. Whats the difference? If you are going to say the surface, then why even honor Zenyatta at all. The surface doesn't matter for older female award, but it does for HOTY, Come on, I want someone, or anyone on this blog to answer that, because everyone keeps speaking of dirt racing. Well, why even consider California racing horses at all. If Zenyatta is good enough to get the champion older female award running on Synthetics, then she is definitly good enough to get HOTY on synthetics. Now, eveyone will say, Oh, it's not the surface, it's the most races raced in the year, Well, to late because all I have heard was the surfaces. Dirt over Synthetics. I say, if this is the case, then the Eclipse's need to strike any horse that is up for any of the awards, that are in California, If she is good enough for one, she is good enough for the other.

carolyn 26 Nov 2009 6:40 PM

tcc,

   Audible called...

Nov. 28, Aqueduct, Race #3, #7516

Greg J. 26 Nov 2009 7:35 PM

Carolyn,

    Personally, it is not the surface that bugs me, it is the fact she never once raced outside of Cali this year. I've said how many states and tracks RA has run at about ten thousand times to ten thousand different ppl, so I really don't feel like reiterating it all. The reason she should get Older Female, is because no one female in the east dominated that division so completely as she did in the west. IMO, the award is about dominace over a division and the actuall toughness of campaign. Both fillies dominated females with ease, but what seperates them for me is RA not only took on the boys three times and won, but she did it at three different tracks, one being the Graveyard of Champions. Incase you didn't know, since your newer, the reason it is called that is because champions like Man o War and Secretariat lost there, and so have many other champions.

Now I will say I HATE synthetics, with a passion. I don't see the need for them when you have a perfectly good example like Saratoga showing that a well mantained dirt course is even safer than synthetics. Saratoga, just to make it clear, has had less fatal breakdowns, two, in two years than any of the Cali track in one year.

As I said, for me, even though I can't stand the surface, it does not determine who I like or favor. I have liked a couple of Cali horses for the Derby the last couple of years, Colonel John and POTN are the last two. This year I love Lookin at Lucky and American Lion. On the east I like Jackson Bend. So two of my top three are from Cali and run on synthetics.

It is not the surface that determines my opinion, it's the overall season.

LDP 26 Nov 2009 7:51 PM

Greg J.

Race #7 Aqueduct

#7461

#7476

#7481

tcc 27 Nov 2009 5:35 PM

CAROLYN,

I think MINORS are NOT allowed to blog here. LOL.  Your comments below are HILARIOUS:

"JJ dodges like a bullet.."  "Zenyatta CAN win in DUBAI.."  

Zenyatta in Dubai?? LOL. ROFL. hahahahahaahahahahahahaha.  Sheikh Maktoum will have A FIT if he sees that mare on HIS turf.  LOL.

Zenyatta won't even CROSS into the next STATE, and you say she will cross CONTINENTS into the MIDDLE EAST? ROFL. LOL.

JJ can "dodge" LIKE a bullet.  Since WHEN do bullets dodge anything?

HAHA.  With Fans like you, who needs enemies?  LOL

Pasturelands 30 Nov 2009 7:22 AM

So many here can't stop whining about where Zenyatta raced this year. Why are you people so blind?

A far more relavant fact is that all the plans had been made to ship Zenyatta East to face RA in the Beldame and Ra's connections ducked the meeting. There was no physical problem with RA in fact she was in great form. Stop with the Cali. only crap already, HOY comes down to two and if the connections of Zenyatta had there way it would have been decided on a dirt track facing each other. On top of that Zenyatta put it all on the line when they raced her in the Classic instead of the Ladies Classic where she would have won on a walkover. At least they had the guts to seek out the toughest races they could find, one of them never happened because RA's connections chickened out and the other which was even more of a challenge they won impressively.

Zen stayed in California because the only competition she had on the East Coast wouldn't go against her and the toughest race of the year by far happended to be there. What would it have proven for Zenyatta to have gone East to face animals she would have trounced by 20? Then all you would be crying she didn't beat anybody. Give it a rest, she would have travelled out of state and raced on dirt if the competition had shown up. It's not her fault racing outside of the state turned out to be not worthwhile.

gw_bushwacker 03 Dec 2009 12:43 PM

Pasturlands. If you would read instead of talk as usual. I was talking about Rachael going to Dubai, I have never said anything about Zenyatta going, go back and read, you have my blog mistakened with someone else's, furthermore, Zenyatta is retired , why on earth would I say send her to Dubai. I worry about your mentality.

carolyn 03 Dec 2009 2:26 PM

Pasturelands:

Your ranting about Carolyn is very condescending and is unbecoming of a gentleman.  Furthermore, Carolyn has only been involved in the sport for a couple of years, but it is clearly evident that even in that short period of time she has already forgotten more than you know.

LAZMANNICK 04 Dec 2009 4:52 PM

Zenyatta in her four races prior to the B.C. faced all of 1 graded stakes winner in 2009. I believe his statement was that ““In the other races she won, she beat mediocre kinds of horses.” They were alot less than mediocre, they were horrible, horses that were competing in optional claiming races. And then they have the nerve to make a push for HOY, thats sad, and incredibly shameful, this is horse racing and you go and prove your horse is great by beating the best, not the best Cali has to offer, because thats not very much at all. I’ll say again those that are Zenyatta fans should really be ashamed to be backing a horse that won 1 race of consequence this year. I would gladly vote Summer Bird or Gio Ponti over Zenyatta for HOY because they both ran in much more impressive races and tougher campaigns, Zenyatta’s campaign is more in line with Pepper’s Pride than with any champions that ran. The fact that the Moss’s didnt learn their lesson last year with the cream puff campaign and big win gives me indication that they are consistenly willing to try to receive HOY throught the back door.

These are the facts, Pay attention. 07 Dec 2009 8:26 AM

These are the facts, Pay attention

Get a reality check.  What does the GREAT MARE have to do, defeat the Classic horses again for you to get it?  She could do it in her sleep and if your knew anything at all about horse racing you would realize that.

LAZMANNICK 07 Dec 2009 10:40 AM

Lazmannick,

The reality check is you consistently talk about 1 race, if you remove the one race what do you have. Basically nothing at all, I find it funny though that I give you facts and details that back up the statements that i've made and you come back with "She won the Classic", lol.  Is there anything else that you could possibly say regarding her season that would interest me. Probably not though and I would guess thats why you have nothing else to say, you have 1 arrow and that arrow falls short of being able to talk about a true candidate for HOY.  Summer Bird's Resume, More Impressive, Gio Ponti's Resume, More impressive, and Rachel's Resume and her way of dominating her competition is in line with conversations that invoke talk of Ruffian and Personal Ensign, true champions that didnt hide in Southern Cali and travel an hour from one track to another to win races that are unimportant.  You might want to check your ego at the door, because you're in the wrong company when you try to talk horses with me.  Now I will wait for your quirky response with no facts in it.  Yes that's right, I'll Wait.

These are the fact, Pay attention 07 Dec 2009 2:06 PM

Zenyatta won four G1 races in 2009, not one. Anyone who wanted a shot at Zenyatta, including Rachel Alexandra could have entered those races and a lot of good horses did. Horses like Anaaba's Creation and Lethal Heat that a lot of RA fanatics knock as being "allowance horses". Well guess what, take Zenyatta out of their races and both of those horses are Grade 1 winners. Oh yeah, there was also a filly named Life is Sweet. RA's connections didn't even want any part of LIS or other fillies and mares like Careless Jewel in the Ladies Classic. I can't really blame them because RA was all out in the Woodward and stopping her season after that race was the right thing to do for the horse. I'm not going to knock RA for only racing on dirt in the East, only racing against 3yo or beating a mediocre bunch of older males that weren't good enough for the Breeders Cup Classic because those arguments are as phony as knocking Z for only racing in California on Synth tracks and beating nobody.

Both the Filly and Mare are all-time greats, both will win Eclipse Awards this year and both are a lock for the Hall of Fame. Their racing records and the great races they ran will be remembered by racing fans long after the footnote of who won the HOTY popularity contest is forgotten.

jhorse 08 Dec 2009 5:00 AM

These are the fact, Pay attention:

The reality check is that the Great Mare stepped up and defeated the filly champ the year before and then defeated her again in the Lady's Classic.  Along the way she defeated G-1 winners Music Note, Cocoa Beach, Hysterical Lady, Tough Tis Sis and Life Is Sweet, among others, most of them multiple times.  She ran a 1.40.4 1-1/16M in only her second start and was at the top of the heap after her forth start

Do you think she suddenly stopped being good from 2008 to 2009?.....The ease in which she defeated the toughest G-1 field this year after a difficult start should give you a clue as to how good she is.  She was favored in the race.  Knowledgeable, unbiased people actually bet tons of money on her because they were confident that she would win.....Some of the horses you mentioned had impressive resumes based on the body of their work, but they were no match for the talent of a better horse, a horse that recorded the highest ever Beyer for a route race on synthetics in N/A.  The scarry thing about it is that Zenyatta is actually better on dirt.

Ask yourself, what did all those great male horses that Rachel defeated do after she faced them?  Outside of Summer Bird, not much and we all know what happened to Summer Bird when he faced the reality check known as Zenyatta......I’m sorry, but any way you want to slice it, Rachel’s competition was a little lacking.  The Preakness field turned out to be pretty bad because outside of Take the Points (2 stakes on grass), none of them has won a graded stakes race since.  The Haskell field, outside of Summer Bird, is the same......The Woodward field was weak.....Bullsbay won a G-1 against an over the hill Commentator and Macho Again, and Macho’s G-1 in the Stephen Foster was gift wrapped because Einstein was in trouble throughout the stretch.  And guess what, both haven’t even made the board since they faced Rachel in the Woodward, and in the Clark, Einstein, whom Zenyatta humbled in the Classic, in turn humbled them both.

Ask yourself, what was so great about Rachel dominating two set-up fillies in the Mother Goose?  They knocked each other out running ridiculous fractions on a ridiculously fast track and had nothing left when it mattered?  Tell me what was so great about the so-called G-1 fillies in the Kentucky Oaks.  The second place horse ran her 1-1/8M in 1.52.4.  Those were supposed to be G-1 horses.

HOY is so important to Rachel fans because you all know that her connections backed off when the real racing was about to begin.  She could have gone in the Travers and didn’t.  She could have gone in the Jockey Club Gold Cup and didn’t.  She could have faced Zenyatta in the Beldame and backed out.  Instead they chose the Woodward, the weakest of the lot......and you’re accusing Zenyatta of hiding.

The bit about Zenyatta hiding in California is getting kind of tired.  And while you’re comparing Rachel to Personal Ensign and Ruffian, why don’t you also include Man o’ War and a few others.

Yeah, I guess I better check my ego at the door because I’m in the wrong company when it comes to talking horses with you.

Have a good day and LOL.

LAZMANNICK 09 Dec 2009 1:25 AM

These are the fact, Pay attention

One other thing since you are so in tune to geography and like to stress that Zenyatta basically stuck to California (in hiding I guess):

Ruffian's career, with the exception of the Sorority stakes at Monmouth (a short way from New York), was excluseively at New York tracks, mainly Belmont, Aquaduct and one race at Saratoga.

Personal Ensign's career, with the exception of the Molly Pritchard (again at Monmouth) was entirely at Belmont in New York until her final race, the BC Distaff at Churchill.

I guess you can be classifid as an all time great without travelling around the country.  LOL

LAZMANNICK 09 Dec 2009 2:05 PM

I've come back to this blog several times to see what's been added.  Basically, more of the same.  There are some savvy horse people out there that can successfully compare apples to oranges and then there are the folks that have minimal knowledge and think mainly with their hearts.

Here's one question I'd like both groups to answer.  1) Do you think another 3 year old filly will someday win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward?  2) Do you think another mare will ever win the Breeder's Cup Classic?

robinm 17 Dec 2009 9:25 PM

Think about what your saying!! It could have been decided on the racetrack IF Rachel's connections had sent her to THE BREEDERS CUP CHAMPIONSHIPS where championships are susposed to be decided.

DJ 28 Dec 2009 3:39 PM

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