Female Turf Division Shaping Up Nicely

Believe it or not, guys and gals, there are other Breeders' Cup related things we can talk besides Rachel vs. Zenyatta (although no matter what the new topic is I'm certain it will inevitably come back to that). There are other divisions out there shaping up nicely, including the intriguing older turf females, which has three legitimate stars.

Tuscan Evening is undefeated in all five starts this season, the rapidly-improving Proviso has scored consecutive grade I wins, and champion Forever Together, even though she has not won since last summer, never runs a bad race. Which one will vault themselves to the top this summer?

Tuscan Evening is incredible. Since breaking her maiden in January, 2009 the daughter of Oasis Dream has won 11 of 15 starts, nine of them in stakes company and the wins have come from 6 1/2 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles. She captured her elusive grade I win last out in the Gamely when holding off Forever Together by a half-length. Jerry Holldendorfer has done a remarkable job with the 5-year-old mare, who unbelievably was winless in 11 starts while racing in Europe. She will likely stay in California this summer.

Proviso also began her career in Europe, though she had much more success than Tuscan Evening. The daughter o Dansili won five of 15 starts in England/France, including a group III stake last summer at Longchamp. In her first start in the U.S. she crossed the wire first in the grade I Spinster at Keeneland but was DQ'd for interference in the stretch. After finishing runner-up in the Santa Monica Handicap (gr. IT) on Polytrack in January, Bill Mott moved her back to turf where she tallied grade I wins in the Kilroe Mile and Just a Game under Mike Smith. Distance is the only question for Proviso; she has never won beyond nine furlongs. Remember, the Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf is at 1 3/8 miles at Churchill this year, instead of 1 1/4 miles. Look for her in the Diana this summer.

I keep waiting for Forever Together to get back to the winner's circle. She ran very well in both runner-up efforts this season, missing by a half-length in the Jenny Wiley at Keeneland and in the Gamely. Now 6, many think she has lost a half-step, but it can also be argued that she just needs a little more pace to run at. She is riding a five-race losing streak, but has not finished worse than third in any of those. The Belong to Me mare will probably meet Proviso in the Diana, which she has won the last two years. I don't think we've heard the last of Forever Together.

Also deserving mention in the older turf female division is Wasted Tears, who beat Forever Together in the Jenny Wiley and has won six straight; grade I winner Hot Cha Cha, a winner last out in the Mint Julep Handicap at Churchill; and Phola, beaten a half-length by Proviso in the Just a Game for her first loss in for starts this season.

99 Comments

Leave a Comment:

thomas

Proviso is pretty much the best so far. not taking anything away from tuscan evening i just feel shes better.

18 Jun 2010 2:02 PM
jayjay

At this, TE would be a runaway winner but the good turf races are coming up .  General Quarters might surprise by the end of the year, he's going for the Arlington Million.  His Woodford reserve win was fantastic.

18 Jun 2010 2:26 PM
mz

Jason: I know its been done before.

Goldikova?

(I like grass horses just generally.)

18 Jun 2010 2:48 PM
TJLuvsTizs

I am a homer when it comes to this question.  I really like Tizaqueena, and I think she is rounding into top form!  Can't wait for her to win again tomorrow!  She may be a front runner, but she has the Tiznow heart to fight it out to the end.

Aside from her, Proviso sure looks tough, and you can't discredit what Tuscan Evening has done thus far.  This will be a great race this fall!

18 Jun 2010 3:01 PM
TJLuvsTizs

MZ,

Goldikova is pointing for her third straight BC Mile (T).  I don't see any reason why she will run against the fillies in November.  She is by far the most accomplished Turf Filly/Mare in the division, but would not run in the F/M Turf.

18 Jun 2010 3:04 PM
anna

well i think that tuscan evening needs to face goldikova in the bc mile later this yr. since goldikova is the champion turf femal from last yr and if goldikova's win in the queen anne stakes means anything that there's no way she'll do anything but 3peat in the bc mile

18 Jun 2010 3:05 PM
mz

I agree with you TJluvsTiz  - 1 1/2 miles would be too far for Goldikova.  The problem is trying to consider who is the best turf mare when we're talking "across  divions" eg. miler vs longer (or shorter).  I just think that right now, Tuscan Evening and Provisio are good horses but in light of Golidkova's dominance, who might end up champion turf mare?

And I only meant that some one race turf specialists have been named Champ. NA Grass Horse and I just am trowing out there for this year: is this anothe such year?

18 Jun 2010 3:12 PM
mz

I also forgot to mention Bay to Bay as an up and comer for later in the year.  

18 Jun 2010 3:12 PM
Jason Shandler

mz: You must be worn out from all the exciting soccer action today. I know I am. In fact, I was so excited I only slept through 77 minutes this time!!

18 Jun 2010 3:14 PM
mz

Are you making comments about my spelling and confusing grammar, Jason?  Remember, I am cross-sporting right now and this is tough (although I understand it is tougher for males than females so I understand your necessity to sleep during one of the greatest sporting events in the World)

Also, just to protect your sensibilities, did you note that I never actually spelled the name of the Other Sport I am following?

And finally, just to make you jealous about female abilities: I am also paying attention to Royal Ascot and I feel for Noble's Promise, who appeared to have spent a lot of his race trying to figure out whatthehellishappening -- he was still 5th or 8th or something, wasn't he? -- good for him!)

18 Jun 2010 3:25 PM
Jason Shandler

mz: lol...I would never make fun of you or anyone else on my blog. That wouldnt be right :)

Im off to Churchill for night racing. Be back tomorrow. If anyone is looking for me, you can find me at the IRS window.

18 Jun 2010 3:29 PM
Sammi P.

I like Proviso, don't know about distance, but for me she is on top right now. TE isn't far behind though. And if Proviso can't go the distance, well she can always run with Goldi in the mile lol

18 Jun 2010 3:29 PM
Frank J.

Yeah, almost as exciting as the NHL playoffs were...what channel were they on again??

18 Jun 2010 3:32 PM
Ted from LA

"Im off to Churchill for night racing. Be back tomorrow. If anyone is looking for me, you can find me at the IRS window.

jshandler 18 Jun 2010 3:29 PM"

Jason,

I didn't realize you're a teller at Churchill too.  You do it all.

18 Jun 2010 4:02 PM
sodapopkid

Jason, Before you go, Remember, Take your laptop with you so you can keep the blogs rolling,

lol, Jason, Just joking, Enjoy your evening.

18 Jun 2010 4:15 PM
TJLuvsTizs

Goldikova may be the best female turf horse we have seen since Ouija Board!  Although she may have distance limitations, her sheer speed is much more impressive than the domestic horses here in NA. She won the eclipse award for turf female last year after only running one race in NA, I don't see why she couldn't do the same this year.

18 Jun 2010 5:00 PM
Footlick

I'm looking forward to seeing Gozzip Girl this weekend.

18 Jun 2010 5:38 PM
Tiznowbaby

Watching the others make payments for their big wins Jason?

:)))

18 Jun 2010 5:48 PM
Ida Lee

I can't pick just one.  I love Tuscan Evening and Proviso is really something.Forever Together is my Princess. (Guess who my Goddess and Queen of racing are. Hint: R & Z) I like Tizaqueena too. So whoever gets to be on top, it's going to be fun watching them. P.S. Goldikova is great and I was cheering for her over Paco Boy but I still carry a little resentment when she beat my Kip Deville in the BC. Kip didn't like being beat by a girl either. RIP Kipster

18 Jun 2010 8:13 PM
Matthew W

Proviso! Best  female turfer....love grass racing and will be playing several tom...love the Colonial Turf Cup--love the race and love the name of the race! Working For Hops and Doubles Partner both look good to me--but the guy I love is a longshot, which suits me just fine, especially when you see how much this guy paid for his three wins outta seven races--they put him on the turf after three dull maiden races--and he wins a small stakes at 107-1.....two races this year/two wire jobs, 8-1 and 9-1---he outruns his odds time and again and this angle: he wires them at a mile...at 1 1/16...now he gets longer/will be able to set slower pace!...am also gonna plunk a bit on the Holly grass` races: Race #3 love Bodark!...Race #5-Wooden Sky I know you're never supposed to play first time starters/especially from the outside at the six fur turf races at Holly--but I love the way Hoffmans brought this horse up to the race--looks way live....Race #7: Bran Jammas found her turf course....

18 Jun 2010 11:34 PM
Bellwether

OFF TO COLONIAL TURF CUP...ONLY SEVEN HORSES RUN N FORE "FIVE HUNDRED THOU$AND BONE$"...AB$URD!!!...ty...

19 Jun 2010 12:12 AM
GunBow

I've been able to see all 3 of these female turfers in person over the last 8 months.

I've been raving about Tuscan Evening after she won the 6.5 furlong Monrovia in January and since then has won 4 additional graded stakes including the gr.1 Gamely over Forever Together.  The Gamely was the 6th graded stakes race I've seen Tuscan Eveving win since early November.  People can point to the perfect trips she has received, but she MAKES those perfect trips with excellent tactical speed, the ability to rate, and great competitiveness.  She is my #1 female turf horse, although not necessarilly my Breeder's Cup favorite, and least not at this early stage.

Proviso has only run twice on turf this year, but she has won them both, with both being grade 1 races.  The two races occurred in California and New York, proving she can ship and face the best of both coasts, and the Kilroe at Santa Anita came against the boys.  Proviso is all class, having placed in a gr.1 behind Goldikova in Europe, crossed the line first in the gr.1 Spinster on PolyTrack, and run 2nd in the gr.1 Santa Monica at 7 furlongs on Pro-Ride.  She's my #2, although the Breeder's Cup Mile(turf) would appear a more likely destination than the Filly and Mare Turf.

Forever Together won the 08' BC Filly+Mare Turf on her way to winning the Eclipse, and ran a solid 3rd in last year's BC.  As a late runner, Forever Together has had to struggle against pace scenarios for a while, but it seems like they're causing her more poblems now.  Having seen her run in person 3 times without a win, I think Forever Together has lost a small step from 08', but still believe she can win gr.1 races.  However, winning consistently enough to earn the Eclipse may be beyond her reach now.

19 Jun 2010 4:35 AM
Rachel

mz, hahahaha!

I love Forever Together, I'd love to see her come back to winning form before she retires.

I was SO happy to see Safely Kept pensioned at 24...she's earned a "free" last few years.

19 Jun 2010 7:20 AM
Ted from LA

I was going to a reception last night and stopped to ask a convenience store clerk how many furlongs it was to the next town.  Does that mean I spend too much time at the track?

19 Jun 2010 3:50 PM
Footlick

Stacelita is being pointed to the BC Filly/Mare Turf, as her best distance is 10 furlongs.  We will see how she progresses throughout the season.

19 Jun 2010 7:15 PM
Matthew W

Ted were you wearing bkinkers?? They can come in handy when your wifey's nagging in the passenger seat--ER--to keep your horse in the game! Drays been going to the track too much, too--the other day, instead of fries, he asked a customer "would you like some losing tickets with that?..."

19 Jun 2010 8:31 PM
Matthew W

Had Bodark, the 1:34 and change maiden winner today--looks like a nice thing--horse has his head in the game and the punch--point him towards the graded stakes races--after picking up his easy $$ in the conditioned races--but he really looks ready for more right now...gonna play the late pick 4 at Los Al with my bestest friend Gary--also will be playing catch with an over 200 win pitcher--can it get any better than that? Was two outta three today--couldn't bet Colonial/saved $$ on that--am taking Personal Glory in the $1,000,000 Ed Burke Futurity tonight, has to get out but think she may be the swiftest--love it when you're "right", but like I say to Gary/and he says to me: "I love this sport..."....it's the best.

19 Jun 2010 8:43 PM
The Rock

Goldikova is not only by far the best filly/mare turf horse out there, she's the best miler overall. Tuscan Evening would have 0 chance against her. Proviso is a nice sort, but I have her at the same level as Tuscan Evening. What the latter two horses have done this year is great, but Goldikova has maintained her form against males in Europe. No reason to believe she won't go for a 3 peat. One thing to note, Proviso, Tuscan Evening & Goldikova won't point for the BC Filly/Mare Turf due to distance limitations. Proviso tried to do it back in 08' but it was just too far for her. Tuscan Evening won at 10f's, but it was against a really weak field of allowance horses and she got stretched to the end on a dawdling pace. Best bet is to see those 3 in the Mile. Tought to gauge who's the best 10+ furlong horse out there. Forever Together has been compromised by pace issues, but going back to the spring time last year and beyond, it had never been a problem. She's just not the same horse as before. Definitely wide open division at the extended distances. Probably just wait and see who comes from Europe and unload.

19 Jun 2010 9:31 PM
Barry

Jason,

 Baseball is more boring than soccer.

 Ball, strike, ball, strike, ball,

foul ball, foul ball, foul ball,

strike out looking. Next batter.

 Plus the cost are outragous, for parking ,tickets, food, and drinks.

 These players are way over paid

for what they "don't" do. Very few

are even worth a millon dollars a year.

19 Jun 2010 9:47 PM
LDP

The Rock,

Forever Together may have lost a step, but to call her an allowance horse is a bit extreme. She has show she is capable of still placing in Grade one company and still has a very good closing kick. Given the right senario she could still win Grade ones and run competitivly in that level of competion. Diminishing her to diminish TE shows either a lack of knoweledge or a flat out lack of respect, maybe both.

While I don't think TE holds a candle to Goldikova, I do think that until proven otherwise, she still can stretch out, especially with her ability to relax off the pace. 11 furlongs is only 1/8 of a mile more, and to be honest, I highly doubt that that extra 1/8 will make that big a difference to TE.

19 Jun 2010 11:02 PM
Pedigree Shelly

       Speaking of turf fillies , Does anybody know what happened to Tapitsfly ??

19 Jun 2010 11:24 PM
Pedigree Shelly

         I hope nobodys mad at me but, I must speak my peace ! I HATE baseball ! I am a football fan ! college too ! I am a big Penn State Fan !! I am also a Indy Colts fan ! I live about 1 1/4 hrs from Indy ! Purdue is another one of my favorite college teams ! I like to watch hockey also But , Horseracing beats them ALL !! Sorry :)

19 Jun 2010 11:42 PM
lure

I think that Proviso is the best of the US-based grass class.  She would, however, have distance limitations and I can't see her beating Goldikova at a mile.

I think the favorite for the FM Turf right now would have to be Dar Re Mi.  She wasn't disgraced in the Turf last year and I think I read where they want to run her versus the gals at CD.  That could change as I don't think the colts are that awe inspiring and Dar Re Mi already won v. the boys in Dubai.

20 Jun 2010 12:36 AM
JAJ

Lady Shakespeare is looking good for the BC F&M turf.  She'll relish the distance.

Goldikova is by far the best turf filly or mare, but she will not get the distance.

20 Jun 2010 9:06 AM
Slew

There are some 3 year old fillies who seem to be doing very well on turf....like Hard Way Ten and Kayce Ace.  They have a lot of potential though I believe that as of now, I see Tuscan Evening on top of her game...but have really been enjoying Phola.

20 Jun 2010 9:46 AM
Zookeeper

HAPPY FATHERS DAY Jason and all the Dads who visit this blog. Have a great day!

20 Jun 2010 10:30 AM
thomas

pedigree shelly

im pretty sure she got injured after the breeders cup but i could be wrong.

20 Jun 2010 1:29 PM
Jason Shandler

Thanks very much Zookeeper :)

20 Jun 2010 1:35 PM
michelle

I think that Gozzip Girl will be back in good form this summer; the race on Saturday can be thrown out.  Tuscan Evening is fantastic and numero uno right now if we only consider American fillies and mares.  If not though, for sure Goldikova.

20 Jun 2010 2:30 PM
Pedigree Shelly

        Jason , Happy Father's Day ! I hope I didn't offend any Baseball fans ! Sorry if I did :) Anyways , I checked out the " True Nicks " blog last night and I saw the subject about the best mate for Zenyatta , The other day I wrote on one of their blogs that finding a mate for Zenyatta from the bloggers , would make an excellent topic !  I have an excellent feeling they got the idea from me !!  Jason , I was thinking about briging up the same subject to you :)

Thomas - Thanks for the info :)

20 Jun 2010 6:17 PM
JAJ

Pedigree Shelly,

Tapitsfly had a chip removed from her ankle.  She's had three breezes since the surgery, the latest a 3f breeze the other day, which means she could be ready to race in 6 to 10 weeks if all goes well.

20 Jun 2010 6:27 PM
Matthew W

Goldikova did not get the best of trips in both of her Vreeders Cup races--the late Kip Deville got a huge jump on her then she was shuffled back last year around the far turn--thought Ventura could've taken her but they decided to try the other filly at 7 fur and they bombed--Goldikova is all heart--one of the greatest--I put Lure as my all time greatest over here, Goldikova one of many from over there who were great--Miesque, Spinning World, Raven's Pass--but Goldikova will be given a long standing ovation at Churchill in Nov...hope Tuscan Evening tries her at a mile vs open/think Tuscan Evening is a true miler and a class horse....

20 Jun 2010 6:47 PM
The Rock

LDP,

Read my posting again. I never called Forever Together an allowance horse. I said she lost a step. She's very capable of winning graded races. And the quote about Tuscan Evening was in regards to her 10 furlong victory at Santa Anita earlier this year. It was a small field of horses to which I believe the rest of the field had not won a stakes race and she was stretched to win that race while setting a slow pace. Hollendorfer had mentioned earlier this year that 10f's was already a stretch for Tuscan Evening but they entered her in that race due to the quality of the competition.

If interested, I'd love to make a side bet with you regarding Tuscan Evening's next race at 10f's or further. I don't think she'll stay an extra 1/16th if pointed to the Beverly D.

20 Jun 2010 8:45 PM
LDP

The Rock,

Unless I'm mistaken, it was in that 10 furlong victory that TE beat FT, and you called that field an allowence field. You did not specify what horses were and were not allowance horses.

I love how everyone trys to bring a horse down, even when they win, and prove they can in fact do something. She rated off the lead and very kindly. She spurted away and held off FT, who still has a very good closing kick.

You have no idea how much I would love to take that bet and prove you wrong, but unluckly for you, my parents taught me not to give out my info, incuding e-mail adresses to people I have no clue about. If you'd like to say have a ban from the blog, or a simple come back and proclaim "I was wrong," sort of deal fine. Just outline the bet.

Personally if its whether she wins or loses, that is a little unfair. She could lock horns in the stretch and still fight on, only to be beaten by a nose. In that regaurds, it would not prove she could not get the last sixteenth, just that she was nosed out by a better horse. If you want to make the bet to where she finishes a certain amount of lengths off the winner, or flat out will not hit the board at all, then fine. But I am not stupid enough to sit here and let you have the biggest shot of victory.

20 Jun 2010 10:59 PM
Frank J.

Shared Account may make a splash in the division as well.

21 Jun 2010 9:24 AM
Kit J

"I love how everyone trys to bring a horse down, even when they win, and prove they can in fact do something"

LDP 20 Jun 2010 10:59 PM"

Please review all previous blogs for your Zenyatta comments.  Rock's comments were mild and analytical in comparison.

Thank you.

21 Jun 2010 10:53 AM
jayjay

LOL Kit J, you beat me to it.  That was a classic.

21 Jun 2010 1:37 PM
The Rock

LDP,

You're mistaken. Stick with me kid, and I'll learn ya. The Gamely was a 9f race. Not 10f. And the ten furlong race I was talking about was the Santa Barbara. Here are the three horses that TE beat in that race. General Consensus, Restless Soul & Eclaire de Lune. Here are the fractions up to 6f's.  24.56, 49.02 and 1:13.77. Nuff said on that.

You're parents taught you not to give out your info to strangers huh? What are you 6?  lol jk. Hey I wouldn't mind Jason here holding our money in escrow. He's a guy we can trust, right? ;) Look LDP, I'm not doing a Dray bashing on TE here. She's a nice horse. What she accomplished at Santa Anita was remarkable. And the Gamely win was a nice score. But as far as distance goes, that's her ceiling. If you're worried about getting nosed at a longer distances I'll make it easier for you. I bet you she won't even be in the final entries for the F&M Turf. Or if you want to keep it simple, after each of my postings, no matter how radical they are, just say "Rock is right". =) haha

21 Jun 2010 1:59 PM
The Rock

Way to go Kit! lol

21 Jun 2010 2:01 PM
slyder

Soccer? The only thing they could do to make me watch soccer short of holding a gun to my head and stapling my eyelids open is change the rules to make it a full-contact, no fouls, WWE style game.

Getting kicked in the shin is something that should only happen to someone out on the playground in elementary school by a girl.

On the subject of what is really important here I like Proviso if only for the fact that I've made some money of her victories this year.    

21 Jun 2010 2:04 PM
The Rock

Slyder,

I'm not much of a soccer fan, but when it comes to the World Cup, I'll get in to it. There are 2 keys to tolerating these World Cup matches. 1) bet parlays on the 3 games during the day. 2) Have the audio in Spanish even if you don't understand the language. These guys on ESPN are so boring when giving the play by play it'll entice you to put a gun to your head. When you listen to it in Spanish, these guys get really in to it, and make the matches all the more appealing. The pregame on Univision is worth watching indeed with the Eye Candy on there. =).Who knows, maybe you'll pick up a little spanish on the way. I've picked up Gol = Goal, Falta = Foul, Tiro de Esquina = Corner Kick. That's all I need. lol

21 Jun 2010 3:28 PM
joseph

Speaking of ladies on the turf, does anyone know the plans for Tapitsfly? I see she has a couple workouts of late. I'm not sure why she has been off since the BC.

21 Jun 2010 4:39 PM
LDP

The Rock,

You like the odds to be in your favor don't you. She won't be in the final entries? Well with the Turf Sprint and the Mile she has two other races she could go in besides the FM Turf. Again, odds much more in your favor, I don't do that.

Two on the betting thing, reason one I would not bet money, I'm about to go to college, I'm saving every darn penny I can get. Two, there are such things as internet stalkers. I highly doubt any are on here, but I'm not about to test my luck, no offense.

You say you think 9/10 furlongs is her ceiling, I do not. The fractions were slow in that race, but the fact remains she actually rated off of them. She will not be the speed in a race where the pace is too hot and the distance is long. I'm not worried she'll get nosed out because she will get tired, but there can always be that one upstart that turns into a super star, or a longshot having a good day, or simply a better horse. I think she will keep on rolling. She hasn't stopped yet.

21 Jun 2010 5:26 PM
LDP

Kit,

Really? What have I recently said negative about Zenyatta that is not true? Did I say I think she is being campagned to conservatively, well yes, and that opinion is not just shared by me. Do I think she had to work to beat St. T, yes, that is a fact, as can be seen by watching the race and by Smith saying "we finally got to see her high gear."

I have also said I think she is an amazing horse who has the potential to be one of the greatest, if only her connections would let her show it. That is not bringing a horse down, in fact it is just the oppisite. But that is not enough for people like you, it's either Zenyatta's the greatest horse of all time or you're a Zenyatta hater.

21 Jun 2010 5:30 PM
TerriV

I'm liking Proviso.  She was looking really impressive in her last race a Belmont and with Mike Smith up she's got a great jockey.

21 Jun 2010 5:33 PM
Runfast159

What do FOREVER TOGETHER, TUSCAN EVENING, PROVISO and GOLDIKOVA all have in common?

They all go back to DANZIG on the top and either NIJINSKY or BLUSHING GROOM on the bottom.  In fact, all but Tuscan Evening trace back to Blushing Groom through their dams. Tuscan Evening goes back to Nijinksy on her dam side as does Proviso (2 times).

21 Jun 2010 6:15 PM
helsbelles

Like GunBow, I have seen all three slendid girls in person... Tuscan Evening, Forever Together, and Proviso.  I feel very blessed.

21 Jun 2010 6:28 PM
helsbelles

... and I've seen Goldikova in person, too.  But wait, I did all this in Los Angeles; I thought only NY is the BIG TIME, or so I've been told.

21 Jun 2010 6:50 PM
johnny d

What a great year for turf fillies! But Tuscan Evening is the tiger of the bunch. Proviso would have to settle for second place just like forever together had to do last week.

21 Jun 2010 8:37 PM
Kit J

Always the caveat.

Always the undertone.

History of writing cannot be erased.

Even in this post? A qualification.

This is a general attitude and it forebodes great issues in your future LDP.

My advice the same as many. Change that attitude of knowing all about everything from a kid not even old enough to gamble, not old enough to have lived a full life and not even experienced enough to see probably ANY of these horses that you wax philosophically on, run in person.

Be prepared for a very rude awakening in College if you do not make major changes.

This advice has been given to you by people who have been through the system and in the case of racing, have seen these horses run or have trained or owned race horses.

Experience is the greatest teacher and the University of Life is the toughest school.

21 Jun 2010 8:40 PM
Matthew W

May haveta settle for the Apple Blossom/Classic but would prefer The Whitney as well---not sure I've seen an Eastern based horse make three roadies out West--I mean ever--during an Eclipse-winning season--if Tiznow could make two roadies in the Fall, with the Goodwood in between, I mean it can be done so it should be tried--better to come back after every race out there cuz you don't want the horse to tail off--time changes can do that--they usually do--if she's my horse I'm thinking Whitney/thinking about throwing it all out there--I'm sure the Breeders Cup wants her to remain undefeated--I say she belongs to the ages--therefore she runs at Saratoga--she'll probably win.....

21 Jun 2010 10:20 PM
The Rock

LDP,

It seems like you like the odds in your favor as well. I'll go one further. She won't be entered in the Turf Sprint either. Not going 5f's on the Churchill Turf. Wouldn't that swing in your favor or do you seem to be siding with me every time i post a comment? lol. As far as her distance limitations...we'll just agree to disagree.

21 Jun 2010 10:54 PM
2-cents

I wonder if Gypsy's Warning would be able to get in.

22 Jun 2010 7:25 AM
jimmy redneck

LDP,

Sometimes you seem to overlook the obvious. If entering Zenyatta in the Br. Cup Classic wasn't showing the WORLD what a great horse she is then nothing will be good enough for some. The fact that she won while having trouble that would have eliminated lesser RA's...ooops I meant horses only adds to her accomplishment. At least give her and her connections credit where credit is due. That was quite the showcase, like it or not.  

22 Jun 2010 10:59 AM
Matthew W

Thirty-three years ago I went to Holly to see Seattle Slew--68K fans showed up---today, I'm planning a July 1st evening with my eldest son (15), gonna see DEVO at the track, there will be more people there to see the concert than the horses--gotta hit Home Depot for a couple of flower pots for our hats! point is this: the only time you see a youngin' at the track anymore, let alone a female youngin'--is when there's a concert--I welcome LDP and her opinions, I see a lot of me in her! She's the future/she's a true believer in this great game--and when Big Z goes back there she and many others will finally "get her"! I mean, she was ripe for defeat the other day and still got it done--even when she's not working 100%! I mean I never got to see Forego but had a pic of him/Shoe on my wall--I knew he was great and loved how he won--same goes for Big Z....

22 Jun 2010 11:38 AM
Slew

From LDP about Tuscan Evening..."I love how everyone trys to bring a horse down, even when they win, and prove they can in fact do something."

Isn't that exactly what you've been doing to Zenyatta?  Double standards are not allowed.

22 Jun 2010 12:17 PM
LDP

Jimmy,

First do that for RA. Don't sit there and talk to me about giving credit, where discredit RA in the very same post. Zen has the ability, but I will not give credit to connections whose only agenda is the win record, meaning racing her in primarily the softest races possible. She has demonstrated otherwise, but her connections are not willing to follow through.

22 Jun 2010 1:31 PM
LDP

Rock,

I like the odds as even as possible, which is why I would not take that bet, because it would quite contradictory to what I believe.

That is why on the first proposed bet I said why don't you say she finishes off the board, not in the top two, or finishes 5 or more lengths off the winner. That to me is fair type of bet.

22 Jun 2010 1:41 PM
LDP

Slew,

Where have I been taking away from Zenyatta? I never said she could not males, could not get the distance or anything AFTER she had already done it. That was my point. I am saying that she should be going distances and should be taking on males because she CAN.

22 Jun 2010 1:43 PM
LDP

Kit,

Where did I even act like I knew everything? You people keep talking, telling me do this and that, and guess what, you don't even look at what you yourselves. I don't tell you to tone done posts, so please back off when it comes to me.

22 Jun 2010 1:48 PM
jayjay

LDP : Read what Kit quoted you on, maybe you'll get it this time.  You were putting down Zenyatta's team, her races, even questioning the quality of the BCC last year.  What Kit quoted you one applies more to you than what Rock said about TE.

Anyone know what races these horses are going to next ?  It would be nice to see Goldi and TE run against east other but there's no way that Jerry would enter TE in the mile.  He'll most likely put her against FT again in the F&M.  

How about that Lady Shakespeare, that was a great race too.  If Gossip Girl can get back to her form last year, I'd love to see her against TE.

It looks to me the male turf division is also pretty much wide open.  I don't think Gio Ponti will dominate this season the same way he did last year.  Paddy  and GQ both had great turf races recently and are pointing to big turf races in their next race, then you have Acclamation.

22 Jun 2010 2:23 PM
jimmy redneck

LDP,

Did I miss something somewhere? Zenyatta is running in the softest races possible? When did she become a $1500 Claimer running at Fonner Park? Wasn't it RA who just went against Claimers/Former Claimers not Zenyatta just to get a win? You are going to have a tough time in the real world if you can't give credit just because you don't like someone or how they do things. Don't worry it might come to you with maturity. If not you can always come here and visit draynay.  

22 Jun 2010 2:35 PM
Kit J

LDP, I'm trying to offer you some friendly words of advice.

Look at the number of people you had to justify what you have said in past about Zenyatta and the comment you made on here. The comments you have made over and over about her connections. If it were just me? Then I'd say I'm off the mark.

Every time you say these types of things it just confirms what we who are trying to be nice about it, just how you actually present yourself on here.

But, keep the blinkers on, then you'll become a punch line just like someone else on here.

22 Jun 2010 2:50 PM
Aluminaut

LDP,

Have you chosen a Major yet for college?  I changed mine as a late sof. and did 29 units in one semester to catch up.  I graduated high school at 16; college at 20, and was the 'designated driver' for a progressive dinner grad party because I wasn't 21.  After my B.A. I started my Masters at UCLA and never finished because I needed to make money and just sorta fell into business instead of writing and teaching.  It has been great for me and I am never bored.

What I'm trying to say, is give your future some thought....don't just go to college and try to sort it all out later.  You may get lucky and find a new passion that pays, but it's always best to have a solid background so you can make money and find fulfillment in your working life also.

Best of luck planning and executing your future.

22 Jun 2010 5:18 PM
Aluminaut

Jason,

As many have said, Happy Father's day to you for last Sunday!

22 Jun 2010 5:19 PM
Aluminaut

Filly and Mare turf?

At 1 3/8s miles, I would say we need to wait and see what European horses are showing up.

Tuscan Evening loves to win, but the distance might be a bit much for her.  Forever Together should appreciate the extra distance.

22 Jun 2010 5:25 PM
LDP

Kit,

I never said anything about Zen until you and jayjay brought her up, so don't even think of laying this on me.

Many others think I'm fair, some on here some on other blogs. If you don't, well, I can't help you. That is your opinion.

22 Jun 2010 5:28 PM
LDP

jayjay,

When a horse is race five times, four against overmatch competition, those are soft races. It is not putting them down it is the truth. What I demonstrated by picking apart the Classic is that every single horse in that field had some kind of exuse. The field had holes, that was all. People want to pick apart RA's competition, then fine I'll do the same. If they want to say there are holes in her races, I'll point out the holes in Zenyatta's races.

Jimmy,

Tell me who Zenyatta has raced against this year, other than St. T. How about last year other than the Classic. Over her career, she has faced TTS, CB, GP, LIS, and ST. When she actually. By two of these she nearly was beaten. The Classic has been really her only time coming out of the box. Even this year, what has she done that has backed up the BCC score? Is she going to back it up with a HGC or Pacific Classic? As of now it looks like it's not. If you want to sit there and say RA has face weak, then what were all the horses that Zen faced in her first 3 starts?

22 Jun 2010 5:37 PM
jayjay

Here's what you don't understand, below is a quote from you :

" If they want to say there are holes in her races, I'll point out the holes in Zenyatta's races. "

Doesn't the above statement means that you're putting down Zenyatta's races / opponents ?  That is it, that's what Kit was talking about.  You were telling Rock that he was putting down TE even though TE was winning and prove that she can win.  

Zenyatta was winning and proved that she can win, yet you put her down, that is it, that is all.  It has nothing to do with the specifics of what you said, you were putting Zenyatta down and the point is that what you were saying about Rock applies to you.

Do you get it now ?

22 Jun 2010 7:38 PM
Kit J

You made the comment I quoted. As you've been told before that is the pot calling the kettle.

You didn't mention Zenyatta but you scolded someone for doing exactly what you have done over and over again on other blogs, only his comments weren't as critical as yours HAVE BEEN.

You surely can't be that single minded and obtuse?

You can't say similar things on OTHER blogs, then chastise someone for doing even less than what you are doing.

You cannot erase what you were saying on the blog right before this one.

You're trying to dispute and justify this to at least 6 people on here and on the other blogs who are telling you the same thing.

OPEN your eyes to what you have said.

22 Jun 2010 7:43 PM
Kit J

Rock, I really think the biggest problem that Forever Together had was no Julien!  Maybe not, but it certainly seemed that way.

22 Jun 2010 7:51 PM
LDP

Aluminaut,

Major, Equine Studies, Minor business. My passion is strictly horses. I love to write and have been told by a few I should look into becoming a turf writer, which, I like the idea of. I want to be an owner/breeder and I would like to be involved in my horse's training as much as I possibly can.

I breath horses, that will never change.

22 Jun 2010 8:25 PM
Tim G

Choose writing, unless you've got a spare 100g's laying around, for starters.

As involved in the training as you are with your comments on here?

oooh, look for a rash of retirements in 25-30 years, assuming you don't hit the lottery.  Not being mean just realistic. Trainers don't just get fired, they fire owners.LOL

22 Jun 2010 9:24 PM
The Rock

Wow LDP. Rattling some cages around here aren't ya? lol jk. I will say this. I applaud your passion for racing and happy to hear that you're willing to take it to the next level. Make it happen and don't look back.

Kit,

Touch call on Forever Together. I mean you can make some arguments last year that Julien had waited on her a bit too long to make her move in some races and that the pace scenarios haven't favored her style this year. Just by watching her last 5 races though, it looks as though she's lost a little of that closing kick that was explosive at times early last year. Just my opinion. What do I know though, right? lol

22 Jun 2010 10:28 PM
Aluminaut

LDP,

That Business minor might be a saver.

Re: your comments to jayjay and Kit

J.  I have only one thing to say--

Relax.

22 Jun 2010 10:44 PM
LDP

Kit,

I have been critical of the connections for holding Zenyatta back, do you get that HOLDING HER BACK. Rock was saying 10 furlongs is too much for a horse who already has a win for that distance. That is why I got aggrevated, not because he said that she could do something and wasn't allowed to, but because she had already done something and still he questioned. There is a difference. I have never said Zen can't do anything, never said she couldn't get the distance, never said she couldn't beat boys, all things she has done already. You do not see me saying she can't do those things. I say she should be allowed to do those more often because I know she can, and that the conservative handling of her is basically destroy the way many view her.

The two aren't even near the same.

22 Jun 2010 11:08 PM
LDP

Jayjay,

I point out the double standard being set. If someone wants to call RA's competition week, then I will point out the double standard. It does not mean I'm bashing, I'm equalizing. Though I doubt you could understand that.

22 Jun 2010 11:10 PM
jayjay

LDP : There's a difference between wanting to debate vs. arguing with a tunnel vision.  If, after all the comments to you about this issue, you haven't figured out the point, then you never will.

Picking apart the BCC and saying the field had holes is putting down Zenyatta's achievement.  Whether it's true or not, you're putting down her win of the BCC, is that clear enough ??  Now going back to what you said, doesn't it apply to you ?  What's so hard to understand about that ?  You act like it's the end of the world.  You got caught scolding someone about something that you do all the time and you get all hyped up like you never do anything wrong.  

If you're planning to be a writer, you need to understand that you'll be "scolded" much more than what you're getting here by your audience...if you can't handle that, then like Tim G says, don't even try becoming an owner.  The trainers will probably make you cry.

23 Jun 2010 1:47 AM
draynays better half

There is absolutely no truth to the rumor that LDP is related in blood to my draynay. If there was he'd already be a gelding. She's simply another blogger who's been sipping his kool-aid a bit too much.

23 Jun 2010 8:07 AM
Slew

My point, LDP, is that you wondered why TE was being criticized because she was winning and shouldn't be criticized.  But you turn around and criticize Zenyatta, even though she keeps winning.  That's why your opinion makes less sense.  

Also, if you have any intention of being a decent writer, and an objective writer, do not confuse anger with passion, and at least use your spell check if you won't take the time to proof your own words.

23 Jun 2010 8:30 AM
Kit J

All I can say is good luck with College. You'll need it.

Some things professors see as inquisitive and active minds, some things they see as arrogant, disruptive and know it all.

Trust me on this, I was once in that level of education.

Also I'll be curious to see how you fare. Business classes require excellent communication skills, good grammar and spelling. Communication isn't hammering on people and telling them that you're always right. Especially when the people are speaking to you from a point of view that you have no experience in. In this case, gambling.

I wish you well.

23 Jun 2010 10:25 AM
Bedazzler

LDP, you should first try taking a course in Human Nature & Interaction little miss sunshine.

Turf Writer or Owner/breeder? Oh,come on. We have enough bad biased Turf Writers out there along with meddling owners. Just a thought I'd throw out there.

23 Jun 2010 1:07 PM
The Rock

LDP,

I question Tuscan Evening at that distance against BC caliber horses. Not against the horses she beat in the Santa Barbara. We're talking about the Breeders Cup here. I don't think she can be as affective at that distance against BC caliber horses. We'll agree to disagree

23 Jun 2010 5:43 PM
Billy's Empire

you folks need to lay off the kid. It is one thing to comment on his remarks he makes here, but for you all to start questioning his studies, his psssion for writing and horses, and his desire to actually go to college and not be a bum, is sad. You are adults picking on an high school kid. Give it a rest.

24 Jun 2010 8:38 AM
sodapopkid

BillyEmpire. Apparently you haven't noticed, but LDP is a girl..........not a HE.

She has a very high passion for her favorite horses and sometimes she gets a little to over passionate and like everyone else, the debates begin.......thats what blogging is all about....

24 Jun 2010 11:22 AM
jayjay

Billy :  Stop whining about everything and anything.  LDP's "passion" is debating, he/she doesn't need your help defending her blogs on here.  She puts herself in these "debates" because she loves it, she just needs to learn how to debate properly, she has a ways to go but she's on her way.  We're helping her develop a skill in debating, you...you're just whining.

24 Jun 2010 1:37 PM
Billy's Empire

no, I have not noticed nor do I care. Good day.

24 Jun 2010 2:17 PM
Kit J

If you don't care why did you interject?

She stirs these issues up and brings it upon herself.  She’s always telling us so much about herself, her attitude and how we should think etc.

Much the same as you do. As the young kids say if you can’t take it then don’t dish it out.

What are you a 20 something kid?

 

24 Jun 2010 3:26 PM
jayjay

The funny thing about Billy is, if LDP was defending Zenyatta, he wouldn't say anything, probably even join in educating LDP.

26 Jun 2010 3:07 PM

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