Uncle Mo wins the Classic by 5 and leaves no doubt who is the HOY.  Mo will dominate and leave no doubt.

"Now, after last year's HOY voting we all know that head-to-head wins don't necessarily matter (Go figure, huh??)"

She won HOY, get over it, move on

Otherwise, I agree with your article. An Uncle Mo win will garner a great deal of votes even if others might have a better resume.  Flat Out could win depending on margin of victory especially if Havre De Grace doesn't run a good race.

Goldikova deserves to be hoy even if she is from another country she repeatedly tackles the boys and I hope to see her win another breeders cup

Draynay,

When you go to the races do you wear pants or a cheerleader's outfit?

Uncle Mo gets second in the Classic and will leave no doubt who the worst handicapper of the year is.  Mo will get second and leave no doubt.

Rumor has it that Zenyatta is going to make an appearance and run in a walk over at Yellowstone Downs.  Should be enough to get her the title again.

Hate to break it to you Draynay, but Uncle Mo has no chance of HOTY. The award will go to either Tizway or Havre De Grace. Unlike last year, where the Classic winner's resume prior to the race was skimpy at best compared to his far superior rival, Tizway and Havre De Grace are nearly equal. It'll all come down to the Classic to decide HOTY. Jason, he lost. Get over it.

Jason

While you were talking with Porter did you by chance ask him if he knows who AAF is? AAF boasts on a couple blogs that  not only does he know Porter he calls him often and gives him racing advice. lol

Jason,

If Havre de Grace's connection were to go for the Distaff (Ladies classic) it would be totally understandable, as a cool $1.2M for a romp in that race is what I call "money for jam" and nothing to scoff at.  However they should not begrudge Tizway the HOTY title if in the absence of HDG he wins the Classic, thus convincing voters that the QUALITY of his body of work for 2011 outweighs the QUANTITY of hers.

I agree that Acclamation is the 'dark horse' in the HOTY contest: a win in the Breeder's Cup Turf puts him squarely in the mix.

You telling me Prayer For Relief has no outside shot at the HOY if he makes it in after the Oklahoma Derby on Oct 15??????

I don't see why the Restricted State Poly Champion won't get as many votes this year as she did last year?  She beat just as many G1 winners this year as last and won just as many races against males on dirt as last year.  Fact is Uncle Mo wins by 5 and Havre gets second and Tizway is off the board Uncle Mo is HOY like it or not.  You can't get whipped by 5 and claim you're HOY.

I partially agree with you on Havre de Grace, Jason. If Havre de Grace finishes well, but doesn't win like Zenyatta did last year, she'll get it.

However, I disagree with you on Flat Out. I think if Flat Out wins the Classic by a decent margin and Havre de Grace runs 3rd or worse, he could take it, but it would be close.

Jason, I know that Harve de Grace doesn't hold a lot of sentiment to many people in racing compared to Zenyatta or even Rachel, and while I'm not sure I can ever love another horse like Zenyatta, Grace has a very special place in my heart. I watched Eight Belles break down, I cheered on Hard Spun and I've followed Grace from the very start. To me, a win would be not only sentimental and heart warming but deserving. I think she's all class and I think she's another beautiful gift to racing.

Harve De Grace will win HOTY if she hits the board in the classic.

I certainly think that if Havre De Grace wins the Classic ,she should be the 2011 HOTY.  Thats not an easy feat,  but she has to win the classic first.

Funny, as of late I've thought the writing on DRF has been... well, I haven't exactly agreed with some of it for lack of a better way to describe. But reading the above list of yearly accomplishments, prior to the results of the Classic, I would say Acclamation is a standout for me. He'd get my vote unless Havre de Grace wins the Classic. And again, the only way Mo would have any chance for HOY is if he wins and then goes on to win the Cigar Mile. I personally don't think Tizway has accomplished more than some, but then again if he beats Grace it would seem the tables were then in his favor. Flat Out is certainly one of my favorites on the list, but even if he wins I'm not sure he would get HOY, although he would have a good chance. The horse I would least consider for HOY or to win the Classic would be Game On Dude, just don't think he's as good as some of the rest.

And while I think Larry Jones and Rick Porter are very deserving people, especially for the way they campaigned the filly this year, to say that it's locked in, although one person's opinion, seems like a Draynay talk to me.

and Goldikova? To win 4, amazing feat never to be accomplished again? Sure. But to say she should win based on that is no different than Zenyatta should have won based on all of her lifetime accomplishments. Zenyatta had a longer list of reasons why she got votes compared to the 4 BC wins in a row/only 1 US race a year. If any European horse should be considered, that'd be Cape Blanco for shipping here and winning 3  very hard won races against some strong rivals. A shame he was injured in the race, he probably would have ran away with the BC and could have been a real HOY contender.

Let me get this straight Jason:

Assuming HDG runs in the BC Classic.You say head-to-head matchups should matter in voting for HOY,so if Flat Out wins the BCC that makes it 1-1 Flat Out vs. HDG.But,then you say a BC Classic win will not be enough for him?.. huh? The Award should go to Flat Out by way of the Classic.

Then you mention Uncle Mo,assuming he wins the Classic then the Cigar mile you think he should be under consideration for HOY? 2 Gr.1 wins,a Gr.II win,a 2nd in a Gr.II and 3rd in a Gr.1  should be enough,but Flat Out's 2 Gr.I triumphs,a Gr.II win and 2 2nd place showings in Gr.I's is not enough?.. huh?

Glad to know you're still objective.. erraa..

I spoke too soon about Acclamation, just read that he's out for the year with foot problems.

Well,Acclamation is done for the year.Foot issues,too bad.

What if none of the front runners for HOY takes the BC Classic,does Acclamation still have a shot?

Jason, Z won HOA based on sentiment and career, not race results on 2010.  With that as a precedent,  don't you think the same will be applied by those voters to Goldi, if she wins BC #4?  Career:  4 starts in U.S.!!! Plenty!!

Go Uncle Mo!

I think that so many horses have stepped up at so many different times this year, HOY is still up for grabs.  The BC will determine a lot more than it has in the past simply because the field remains so wide open.  I think even Cape Blanco might be in the mix.

I should have added, since Tizway won only 2 races this year at 8 and 9 furlongs, I think Stay Thirsty, To Honor And Serve, and Uncle Mo stand a better chance for HOY.

whoever wins the classic will get the HOY. We dont have a HOY this year.

uncle mo will be the favorite for the classic.

LAZ I heard the same thing and it was even confirmed by Shirreff and Moss.  However now it's supposed to rain and true to form they scratched.  After last year's joke selection, HOTY was cheapened considerably. It will be elevated to supreme status once again though when HDG is awarded the trophy.  

I told you to forget about Twirling Candy and that Baffert's Dude's would dominate California racing. It's too bad that Santa Anita did not get the Breeder's Cup this year.  GOD is 3-3 over that track.  If he breaks it's over for both Mo and HDG as he's a one trick pony who can run a 45 half mile.  Baffert's instructions.  "Just go."

Acclamation.  Is he really one of the few in this bunch who can run a 2:00 minute or below 1 1/4.  That's "classic time" and HOY time.  He's just a grinder and if he slows it up no one gets by.

Mo's won 1 race beyond a mile in his life and it was against 2 year olds!  A three year old, lightly raced, against older?  If he wins the Classic he certainly has accomplished a nearly impossible feat and would earn HOY.  If he wins by 10 even better.  I just don't see it.  

Sylvester

You obviously didn’t hear that Yellowstone Park has a plastic tarp.  They just cover the track and let the horses run on it.  

Sylvester

HDG has no chance to win HOY.  That title should go to the undefeated Rapid Redux.  He hasn’t had a chance to show that he can win on plastics, but he is undefeated this year and he hasn’t faced any G1 winners either.  Shoo in don’t you think?

LAZ.  I know.  Her cowardly connections scratched anyway.  Zenyatta the 2010 Farce of the Year.

The only joke is you Sylvester.

If HDG wins the BCC or BCLC she should be horse of the year. If she doesn't win either, it really depends who wins the BCC. If Tizway wins, HOTY should be his. If Uncle Mo wins, he needs to win one more race to win HOTY. If Uncle Mo doesn't win another one, it should go to HDG. If Goldi wins her 4th she is MY HOTY.

You never miss a chance to take a shot at Zenyatta do you Jason?  More sour grapes!  She won - get over it!

I think the way someone wins should factor in as well. If someone wins by 10,  it's a different story than someone that runs a nose better than everyone else.  Uncle Mo would only have one grade 1 win if he won the classic, but his Beyer number in the Kelso was higher than HDG, Tizway or any other HOY contender has run. If he could duplicate that in the classic, and put up another 117+ Beyer, I think that shows he's the fastest horse of the year. Combine that with all he's been through this year, and he might have a case for HOY. If not, Todd Pletcher should win outstanding trainer for sure! He did a sensational job with Mo, and his Saratoga meet was truly incredible!

So many warm and fuzzy bloggers here......geesh folks get over youselves, its just horse racing why make any of this stuff personal.

Any horse with any kind of resume can win HOTY if he or she wins the Classic.

If:

Stay Thirsty wins the Classic he is a lock.

same with Tizway or Harve De Grace, those three did enough to merit the award.

If MO beats Tizway by a nose then it will be a close vote, same if he beats Harve de Grace by a nose.

Anyone of 6 horses could win HOTY.

Enjoy the moment everyone...........

Disappointing news about Acclamation.

Cali has seen its two best horses, Acclamation and Blind Luck, pulled from BC consideration, and a third, The Factor, bomb in his final prep.

It certainly sounds like Acclamation's injury is very minor.  More than anything, it's the loss of training and not the foot problem itself that led the connections to send him to the farm.

I would have to believe that the fact Acclamation would need to be supplemented into the BC for $100k made it easier for the connections to bypass the BC.  Also, the fact the Breeder's Cup will be held in Acclamation's backyard next year (rather than at Chuchill where he would have to ship) has to make it easier to stop now.

Make no mistake, I'm sure Warren and Johnston would have run Acclamation in the BC had he been 100%.  I'm just saying that these other factors probably made it easier to call it off early, and likely weakened the sting of disappointment.  Well, at least that's how I'm framing my disappointment.

Missing the BC will cost Acclamation any chance at HoY and likely even the Eclipse for male turf horse, the latter award now almost certainly Cape Blanco's.  Acclamation and Cape Blanco have both won 3 gr.1 races this year.  The problem for Acclamation is that one of his gr.1 wins came on the maintrack while all of Cape Blanco's wins were on the sod.  Strangely, Acclamation might get punished in the voting for the turf Eclipse as a result of being versatile enough to win the Pacific Classic.  

I'm sure voters will be aware of Acclamation's Pacific Classic win, but will they count it towards the turf Eclipse?  Should they? Or should the turf Eclipse be decided only by what horses do on that surface?

Even if one counts Acclamation's  Pacific Classic towards the turf Eclipse, Cape Blanco still might have an advantage.  While Acclamation won all of his races in SoCal, Cape Blanco was repeatedly shipping over from Europe for his North American engagements.  Also, Cape Blanco has the single mmost important win between the two, the Arlington Million.  The Arlington Million is second only to the BC Turf and Mile as the most important turf race in North America, and since Acclamation won't be running in the BC he will be unable to top Cape Blanco's Million.

There is still a way Acclamation could win an Eclipse, but not for turf male.  What if Tizway, Flat Out and Game on Dude all run poorly in the BC Classic?  Is it possible, in that scenario, that Acclamation could lose the turf Eclipse to Cape Blanco but get the older male award?  

There is a precedent.  Gio Ponti in 09' won the older male Eclipse(as well as tuf Eclipse) with only 2 maintrack starts, and a 2nd in the BC Classic his best result.  Just like with Gio's 09' Classic, if the Pacific Classic cannot be considered towards the turf Eclipse could it be used for the older male Eclipse?  That way Acclamation's versatility in winning gr.1s on different surfaces would be rewarded.  But most certainly the top older dirt males would have to flop at Churchill.  

It will take a convincing win in the Classic (2+ lengths) for either Tizway, Havre de Grace, Flat Out or Uncle Mo to win HOTY, especially now with Acclamation out.  Anything else will muddy the waters and we'll be right back at this after the Classic.  Jason should then do a blog and let us all vote on HOTY.  Zenyatta would be excluded because she won it last year.    OR....

Have all the prospects for HOTY be entered in Yellowstone Park's YOGI Stakes, a 4 turn race on plastic tarp. (and you thought Pimlico's turns were tight.)  This would settle it all, unless of course someone had to scratch because of a Boo-Boo.    

SYLVESTER

Your only jealous, that's why you only know one tune. Move on!

    You anti-Zenyatta, East Coast hacks continue to surprise me; y'all have become the Ron Paul-ites of horse racing.

    You continually wail and gnash your teeth at the dearth of superstars to energize horse racing...well, you had one for three years, and what did you do with it?

    You were all about getting "the people" more into horse racing and giving regular fans a say in HOTY balloting--until it became obvious Zenyatta was their overwhelming choice. "Whoops, never mind that idea", huh? Suddenly the stupid peasants (i.e., non-millionaires and/or those West of the Mississippi)should be seen and not heard.

    By the way, it was supposedly those wild-eyed "Zenyatta Zealots" who would riot in the streets in she did not receive Horse of the Year; but guess who can't concede it almost a YEAR later? "Go figure", indeed!

 The thing about Havre de Grace is that she not only wins, she wins EASY and seems to be getting better.  No disrespect to Tizway but they've all got that filly to beat.  Add in to the mix that her racing style give Dominguez more options than a few of the others.  Uncle Mo will find these horses much tougher than Boys At Toscanova, Rogue Romance, Biondetti, Stay Thirsty, Jaycito, etc.  I certainly don't see him winning by 10.  If he does he's from another planet.

You're taking it way too personal Jacob. The only thing people wanted was for the HOY to be decided on the track. Clearly, it wasn't. Instead, it turned into SOY. Anyone who can say that the mare had a better campaign than Blame is either a blind loyalist or doesnt know racing.

She lost. Get over it.

2009 BREEDERS cup classic....trevor d " ZENYATTA STILL WITH ALOT TO DO...IF SHE WINS THIS SHE IS A SUPERHORSE!!"  WELL....SHE WON......and people say she ducked other horses? rachel didnt run...in the championship...then rachel ducked her again later..  THE CHALLENGER MUST COME TO THE CHAMP!!!! THATS HOW ITS ALWAYS BEEN DONE!!!!!

Results of the races at Belmont on JCGC day need to be looked at with some skepticism. Sloppy or muddy Belmont is more than average speed favoring (how else do you think Giant Ryan won?), and, as is the general case, results in wider than usual margins between those who handle the off track and those that don't.

Oddly enough, the only HoY candidates that we are talking about here that have actually raced and raced well at 10f on a dry track are the mare and the 3yo. Assuming no rain at Churchill (and since I am going, I sincerely hope there won't be rain), Tizway, Flat Out, and especially Uncle Mo have serious questions to answer and their odds will not, IMHO, reflect that fact accurately.

Hmmm. Does anyone remember Cigar in the Pacific Classic?  He gets locked into a speed dual with a couple of nice horses Siphon and Dramatic Gold and runs a 3/4 split of 109 1/5th.  It was all down hill from there setting up nice for that GO something horse with Solis up.  Here is a horse that won what, 9 million in earnings falling prey to race tatics, bad decisions, and trainers who have no chance trying to spoil your quest to break a record. Your HOY candidates all have big targets on their backs.  

Looks like Baffert has Plum Pretty turned around and she has that nice Kentucky Oaks win over the course.  

No, no, Jason, the opposite is true: Blame ultimately lost, and your empty rhetoric shows that you still aren't over it. Your arrogant name-calling with meaningless, unprovable phrases like "blind loyalist" and "doesn't know racing" leave no room for intelligent discussion.

 Even Andy Beyer himself, the dean of East Coast handicappers,was forced to admit after the Classic (I quote verbatim) that "Zenyatta's backers can now definitely make the case that she is the greatest American mare of all time." I challenge you to find me one handicapper of such great status who would make the same case for Blame as the best male of this DECADE, let alone of all time!

 And for the record, I am not a "Zenyatta-Zealot", nor any other pejorative you might use; in fact, I've never been to California, and have lived east of the Tennessee River all my life, but simply disagree with much of the East-Coast bias that still exists in so many sectors of horse racing's Old Guard.

 I certainly hope this isn't unfairly edited to take my words out of context...

The problem with HOY is the voters get it wrong way too often. Zenyatta's accomplishments far exceeded Rachel Alexander's in 2009 but the voters selected Rachel. Blame's accomplishments last year exceeded Zenyatta's but the voters chose Zenyatta. Both times it was as if the vote was determined before the BC Classic. That's probably true again this year. Recent history says the BC Classic will not matter in the voting.

Jacob: A) I dont care about what Andy Beyer thinks.

B) What you fail to understand is that what she accomplished in 2008 and 2009 has NOTHING to do with the 2010 HOY award. Dont you understand that? So her being "the geatest whatever of all-time", if that's what you believe, has no bearing on her 2010 campaign, which wasn't even close to Blame's. She never beat a grad I winner and hid in restricted races all season in California when she could have just as easily taken on males on the same days.

Finally, I am not bitter at all. I could care less about her SOY award. I made a lot of money in the BC Classic on Blame, which means her loss directly put money in my pocket. That's all that really matters when it comes down to it.

Question: Did you save your souvenir ticket? You might get 50 cents for it on Ebay.

I agree, think HDG, Tizway and Game on Dude control their own destinies. But, you have to be intrigued to see if the Uncle Mo "wow" or "freak" factor shows up. Just the likelihood...I give us a 25% chance of seeing something unreal. WILL Pletcher work him longer like the good old days to be sure he is fit? Not blistering fractions here...looking for a mile workout at least in the next few weeks. None of this 5/8ths and 3/4 BS...or is Mo galloping looong like Afleet Alex and Dialed In were trained? If Mo can hold his weight, sheen and extend...just maybe we'll see a superstar. If not I'm still sure one of the other big 3 will step up. Going to be one heck of a race and some great conversation out here (again) until the Eclipse awards anyway. Thank Goodness this year really developed into something else afterall...

Dear Jason: You are an educated man (as am I, for the record) and I certainly respect your opinions. I didn't want to post anything more, but two points and (I think) I'm done.

(1) When is the last time you handicapped a race without using Beyer Speed Figures? You honestly expect me to believe you have no use for Andy Beyer? "C'mon, man!" You don't do your case any good by completely disregarding Mr. Beyer's opinions, a man who is arguably the greatest innovator in horse racing of the last half-century.

 (2) Do you have absolutely NO understanding of the Graded Stakes System in America? It is the ultimate arbiter of stakes quality in the US, and according to them (we ARE arguing using valid sources and objective fact, are we not?), Zenyatta won 5 consecutive GRADE ONE races in 2010. Does that have no meaning to you? Can we simply assign any Grade 1 to the status of "Restricted" on any ludicrous whim that strikes us? Of course not. Your statement that Zenyatta "hid in restricted races" is, to be blunt, a lie.(She ran in none from ages 4-6.)By the way, Zenyatta had already won two Grade 1s in 2010 before Blame beat up on Pimlico horses in a weak Grade 3. And who did HE beat? Some horse named No Advantage, and Edgewater set the pace; superstars both, huh? (Just watched it on YouTube to make sure.) Please!

 As for the statement that she didn't beat any grade 1 winners: Have you never heard of Switch? I know you have. After her defeat to Zenyatta (at the same track where she had earlier beaten Blind Luck), she ran second in the (Grade 1!) B.C. F&M Sprint, then reeled off two consecutive Grade 1 victories;she then was beaten 1/2 length by Havre de Grace in the Apple Blossom.

 Now that I've said that, could I actually comment on your article? I think it's very thought-provoking, and really enjoyed it.You were dead-on with your statement that it all hinges on Tizway, he is definitely the wild card. Until this year I'd always though of him as a miler, and an inconsistent one at that, i.e. last year's Breeder's Cup Mile. To be honest, though, I think the layoff will strengthen his chances in the Classic, if anything. He runs well of a layoff, as evidenced by his score in last year's Kelso (G2), though he hadn't run since the Met Mile. Still, perhaps best to go with those you can have a greater degree of certainty about. On to Churchill!

Rachel in 2009 was a 3 year old filly.  She went 8 for 8 including a G1 win vs. males in the Woodward something never done before in 80 years and you think someone had a BETTER year ?  She won the Preakness and Haskell whipping the 3 year male of the year. One of the greatest performances by any 3 year old in history and you think something was better ?  Get a grip.

The fact that we are still talking about this 11 months later is rediculous. Maybe Zen was Horse of the Decade, I will not disagree with that, but she was not the HOY in 2010. She was handled with Kid Gloves for the sole purpose of keeping her unbeaten until the BC Classic. Her camp claimed greatness, said that they were going to showcase the big mare in NY and KY, and all they did is sit in Cali racing against Allowance horses in the same races she had won the previous 3 years. BORING. Was she a bad shipper? Doubt it, she won 2x at Oaklawn. Were the connections willing to scratch b/c things did not go their way, YES. (See CD 2009 when she was entered and scratched b/c of an off track.)

After all of the hype, I was nothing but dissapointed in 2010. I agree her accomplishment of 19 wins in a row and all of those grade 1's is nothing short of spectacular for a closer, but in the end, she did not deserve the HOY. Zenyatta was like Boise State or TCU, playing cupcakes and staying unbeaten when everyone knew the real football was being played in the SEC, by the likes of Bama, Auburn, LSU, and Florida. Did TCU or Boise win the Title. NOPE! But the SEC schools did!! It is about competition. If it wasn't, Pepper's Pride and Rapid Redux would of been front runners for HOY.

Let's talk about upcoming races. this is so tired and boring.

P.S- no way Zenyatta's 5 wins in 09 were better than Rachel's 8. Not even close.

Can I get just one blog where people aren't arguing about Zenyatta?  Is it too much to ask BOTH sides to just show some restraint and discipline and stick to the topic, which is not Zenyatta because she is retired.  If BOTH sides would do this we may have a topical blog.  Thank you.  

And it does no good to give your opinion, pro or con, and then tell everyone to move on.  If you give your opinion it invites rebuttal.

All of this talk about who should have won HOTY is misguided.  Caracotado should have won it.  Any horse who Ted from LA predicted would win the Triple Crown in January, deserves it.  Who here can possibly argue with that logic?  I do have a few remaining questions.  Was it fair that Zenyatta won HOTY over Blame?  Who was a better racehorse, Rachel or Zenyatta?  Is racing better on the east or west coast?  Was Dan Gable or John Wooden a better college coach?  Who has better coffee, Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts? Who was the prettiest Charlie's Angel?  Who was the most interesting talking horse, Mr. Ed or Sarah Jessica Parker?

So sad to hear that Blind Luck is being sent off to the auction ring after one bad race.  If not for that she would have been mentioned in this article.  I know, it is all about the almighty $$ but what looked like a great rivalry with HDG never came to be.  What is your opinion, Jason?

Derblin: Just because Blind Luck is being sold doesnt necessarily mean she wont run in 2012. It depends on what her injury is.

Jacob: I like Beyer but his opinions on HOY dont matter to me. For the record, I use Bris Speed Figures. They are much more accurate.

As far as graded stakes, when she is running in fillies and mares only races, they are restricted. It's not open company, is it?

As far as Switch, she did not win a grade I race until AFTER she faced Zenyatta. Get your facts straight please.

She lost. Get over it.

HAVRE...enough said!!!!

I think that it will be Havre de grace and tizway for horse of the year 2011. What I don't get is why Zenyatta's name keeps coming up. She is not racing anymore and on her way to becoming a mom. People need to get over it Rachel Alexandra was horse of the year in 2009. Zenyatta was horse of the year in 2010. Why can't people look at the horses we have racing now. Instead of going back and looking at retried horses. And they should vote with Their heads rather than their hearts. If voting was done with their Hearts Barbaro would have won along with Ruffian and tons of other horses. Horse of the year should be given to the horse who accomplished the most in the particular year.

Sylvester.

Sounds like you really can’t get over this HOY thing.  I think what we need is for you to head up a committee to investigate Native Dancer’s 1954 HOY win based on a Met Mile victory and two allowance races.

I don't think the races Rachel Alexander were entered in did her any favors.  She spent most of her time with a bad crop of 3 year old fillies and when she did go against 3 year old males it was Munnings and Summer Bird.  Then, onto the older world beaters like It's A Bird and Macho Again.  

Her handlers simply failed to put her into something that would go down in history like a Breeder's Cup or face an Eclipse award winning mare.    

80 years big deal.

Take a look at Winning Color's campaign.

Santa Anita Oaks-Win

Santa Anita Derbry-Win

Kentucky Derby-Win

Preakness-3rd

Belmont-out of the money

then a nose loss to the undefeated Personal Ensign in the Distaff, then coming back a year later to take on Bayakoa in the Breeder's Cup.

That to me is much more historically significant yet she is completely left out of the top 100 horses of all time.  

Just kind of wondering where they will stick a filly who won the Preakenss, Haskell, and Woodward.

IMO if Uncle Mo wins the BCC emphatically and with a good Beyer number I think he is right there in the mix, especially since there is no real clear cut leader at this point.  A win in the BCC followed up by a win in either the Clarke or the Cigar Mile and he is a cinch.

HDG, who has won two G3 races, hurt her chances IMO by passing up the G1 Ogden Phipps and Awesome Maria, who was on a three race win streak, to run in the very ordinary G3 Obeah.  And it’s not like she had to travel clear across the country to run in the Phipps.  The race was just a couple of stone throws away.  Her victory over Blind Luck was more than nullified by losing to BL in the 10F Delaware handicap.  The Woodward, other than Flat Out who was closing steadily, was against another one of those G2/G3 fields that is becoming common for the Woodward in recent years.  Her Beldame win was against an obviously over matched 3 year-old Royal Delta, LAT who should have been retired long ago, and more of those Obeah G3 type fillies.  If she wins the BCC she is definitely HOY, but even if she won the Distaff and the other leading candidates faltered in the BC she could still win because the competition for the award is so close.  Winning either race would mean four G1 wins.  Of course the penalty for all of us would be the continuous editorials from Afleetalexforever.

Tizway needs a BCC win and if he does that, with three key G1 victories at progressively longer distances, he’s HOY.  Without the BCC, even if none of the major contenders wins at the Breeders Cup, he’s in trouble based on just two G1 victories.

Acclamation is still in the mix IMO in spite of shutting it down for the year.  Three 10f wins and a 12F win all in good times are impressive on any resume.

Cap Blanco was one win away from HOY IMO before the injury probably took him out of it.

I agree totally with Jason regarding Game on Dude and Flat Out.  Flat Out is still outside looking in even with a BCC win.  Game on Dude would have an edge over him if he should win.  There is one thing both have gong for them if they should win the BCC and that would be two wins in an open 10F G1 race in one year.

IMO no other three-year old and no other filly and mare have a chance at HOY with the possible exception of Stay Thirsty.  A win in the BCC would mean two G’1 including a Travers, a nice second in the Belmont and a not so impressive third in the JCGC, and an emphatic win in the G2 Jim Dandy.  Who knows.  Maybe if Union Rags dominates in the two year old Juvenile and the other leading candidate older horses falter, he could get some votes.

Jason:  You keep telling people to"get over it", it seems to me that you are the one who never lets this go, you constantly bring it up. Have a little compassion for the great fans of Bloodhorse and your blogs, and the fact that many of us loved Zenyatta. So she won on a synthetic surface, who cares it's still a racing surface. Why blame the horse, she doesn't dictate what surface she runs on. You're supposed to be a racing fan, you write blogs on a well respected website show a little respect for those who actually love this sport. I agree most of the time with your assessments but you seem to always like to stir the pot and get under folks skin. That isn't professional. Please do what you do best, write blogs and give expert analysis.  

Footlick

The tooth fairy is going to be making her rounds tonight.

"She lost get over it,  She lost get over it,  she lost get over it"

I will be glad when this parrot learns some new words.  

If Jason is going to make remarks like "Go figure, huh ???" for the love of Blame and his disgruntlement that the voting for the 2010 HOY was not, as he saw it, confined to head-to-head wins, his column which should rightly be confined to the discussion at hand - handicapping the race for the 2011 HOY - is inevitably going to be plagued by comments from Zenyatta fans that are off topic. He cannot keep telling them "She lost the 2010 BCC. Get over it," in blog comments and now following that up with a fresh rubbing of salt in the wound with the "Go figure, huh ???" comment coupled with the disparagement of the 2010 HOY balloting as "SOY," and not expect the discussion to be interspersed with some rebuttal comments about Zenyatta.  As the evidence in this current blog convincingly establishes the truth of that assertion, I might as well add a little further rebuttal, arguing that Zenyatta overcoming a new obstacle - dirt in the face - that caused her to almost lose contact with the field in the toughest race of the year, then being forced to swing wide from the rail coming out of the final turn to go around a tiring Quality Road, and finally falling short by only a nose to a quality Grade Oner like Blame, who had a forwardly placed, ground-saving dream trip, demonstrates that head-to-head performances rather than head-to-head wins may have been a factor in securing for Zenyatta HOY honors. As for the 2011 HOY handicapping, if either Havre de Grace or Tizway wins the Classic, that victory decides HOY in their favor. If Uncle MO does the deed , he may well need another Grade 1 win like the Cigar Mile to get him over though he'd overcome a mountain of difficulty in returning to form after recovering from the rare hepatitis disease that abbreviated his 2011 campaign. If none of the above comes to pass, it's a crap shoot and, assuming that happens, if Goldikova wins number four in the mile, she has to be seriously considered for HOY though she's only run once this year in the States.  

Why is everyone trashing Zenyatta's hoty? Like you would have sent out YOUR horse to run against her last year!?

Householder, That "GO" horse your talking about was DARE AND GO (1.6M) a gorgeous bay son of Alydar out of a Secretariat mare who raced in Europe and then the states. His second dam is also the grandam of Quiet American. I cheered loudly that day when he beat Cigar, as I would have any offspring of the much loved Alydar. (my wasband was a big Cigar fan and I was still holding a grudge about Holy Bulls injury in the Donn earlier that year) So sad Dare and Go only lived to age ten.

LOL @ Bob and the Sarah Jessica Parker comment. Maybe she should be in the running for HOY too.

For the record, I woulda raced my horse against Zenyatta. With a half mile head start. Im sure my little Arabian would have got his hindquarters handed to him even then.

Jason, your only perpetuating the madness. She won everything else, get over it....LOL

Bob from Boston:

Dunkin Donuts.

Ok, I admit it. She is the best California-based mare to run almost exclusively on synthetics that we have ever seen. Satisfied?

I strongly disagree with your statement that HOY voters voted with their hearts instead of their heads last year. Zenyatta is tons better a horse than Blame. Quit insulting this wonderful mare!

Smarie: Funny, somehow Churchill Downs cashed my winning Blame ticket. How did that happen since the mare is "tons better."

Please quit insulting this wonderful colt!

SMARIE

Some can't come to the realization, but Blame hasn't a prayer of getting into the HOF.

DEACON

Do you think it's even close that "real" individuals that shape the industry agree with the  Zenyatta detractors?

In my humble opinion, only three horses have any chance for HOTY: Havre de Grace, Tizway, and leading three year old champion Stay Thirsty. If HDG or Tizway win the BCC then the HOTY is theirs outright. But if Stay Thirsty somehow conquers the race then HDG would have to run a courageous 2nd like Zenyatta in last years BCC to have a chance to upend Stay Thirsty for HOTY.  If this scenario happens, then the championship is in the hands of the voters. But if any other horse wins then HDG is the HOTY by default.

JASON

I don't really expect an answer for this question. How many  important individuals in racing do you believe actually buys your theory of the mare? Be interesting to find out. Between the two which is a lock for the HOF?

She won HOY. Get over it.

With wit and humor Jason finally says a qualified "Uncle"  about Zenyatta's greatness, albeit a tongue-in-cheek concession that gives no ground from his previous contentions about Zenyatta. I fear that the East Coast bias has twisted him in his judgments about the mare, but he did make me laugh.

The fans of the Restricted State Poly Champion can't even get right what she lost by.  She officially lost by a head.  I was there she lost by a head not a nose but nice try.  She couldn't win on a track set up for closers.  Dakota Phone behind by a mile at the start closed and won yet you people are still bragging how Zenyatta closed and lost.  Get a grip.  She couldn't beat males on dirt end of story.

Householder like it or not no horse has had a better 3 year old campaign then the perfect Rachel Alexandra.  Perfect all year and beating G1 winning males 3 times in a row?  Let me know when you ever see it again.

Will---GREAT POST (at 3:39)!  Couldn't have said it better myself!!  Well stated logical REASONS why the best horse lost that night, and Jason is definitely perpetuating the Zenyatta conversation with all the uncalled for digs.  I only respectfully disagree on the Goldikova for HOTY issue as I don't feel ANY horse who runs here once in a year deserves our highest award....   :-)

The Deacon:  THANK YOU for your 3:33 post ---WELL SAID!!!

As a lover of the sport, I am grateful to Rick Porter and Larry Jones for putting HDG in open races were she can prove herself on her own merits -- they know what the sport of "horse racing" means.

I am afraid that my personal fav, Blind Luck, will be sold to Japan.    

Blanket statements upon close scrutiny generally do not hold up and escape qualification. They are often made to provoke a response rather than to convincingly close an argument. In this case the person making them has a track record of doing just that. "Zenyatta could not win on a track set up for closers." Qualification: Off slow she was in danger of losing contact with the field, reacting against the new circumstance of getting dirt in her face. Nevertheless, she adjusted and overcame though it cost her some valuable distance between her and the leaders, including Blame who Trevor Denman said got "the perfect trip." She couldn't beat males on dirt. End of story." Qualification: she had to, as Denman remarked,  weave her way through a large field of tiring horses before she could be set down for the drive and it cost her dearly.  "She officially lost by a head not a nose." If that's all that had been claimed, we could all bow down to Draynay and laud him for his perceptiveness. Conclusion: Jason is a much more effective protagonist as a Zenyatta detractor and a lot funnier.

I didn't realize that the subject for this weeks blog was Overrated, but it looks like we are back on the topic of the "great" Zenyatta. The "great" Zenyatta, who somehow failed to beat a Grade I winner in 2010, yet still was awarded (by popular vote, I might add) HOTY. When a horse runs primarily on synthetic surfaces in California, and fails to win on dirt against open competition, how do you jump to the conclusion that this is the greatest mare ever? And bashing Blame and saying how much better Zenyatta was and how only one of them will be in the Hall of Fame is a joke. Blame was better in 2010, and the stats support that claim. Will someone please tell me what race Zenyatta won that would be considered better than the Stephen Foster Handicap or the Whitney Stakes? Blame won bigger races, and in their only head to head matchup, Blame prevailed. Interesting how much Mike Smith had to use the whip on Zenyatta in the stretch to even get her that close. Was Garrett Gomez even carrying a whip? I certainly don't recall seeing it when he coasted home to victory...

But with all due respect Jason, it is hard to get over. In fact, I think I will go to youtube right now and watch the 2010 BC Classic. Gives me chills watching Blame win that race! Who again was that horse picking off stragglers in the stretch to finish in 2nd place?

Bob from Boston that was a mean comment about Sarah Jessica Parker! Shame on you. She was hilarious in The First Wives Club fyi. The answers are Mr. Ed, Dunkin Donuts, yes it was fair that Zenyatta won HOTY (she won, get over it), Zenyatta was greater than Rachel, my nephew says John Wooden, the prettiest Charlie's Angel was Jaclyn Smith (but my husband says they all pale next to Sophia Vergara), and racing is great on both coasts (sorry, I'm no fool).

DRAYNAY

Tell me how RA did as a four yr old? I'm waiting.

Guiness is right for a change Jason.  Just say "Zenyatta was inferior to Blame".  That pretty much sums it up.

hoty is like any horse race, the best horse doesn't always win.( and everyone will always agree this is true, especially when the horse they think should win, doesn't.

COMMON SENSE!!! OK,"friends"...learn the game...ZENYATTA lasted 4 yrs because of 2 things...1- the great job done by the trainer...2- she was easy on herself by never trying..(went as fast as she had to..ears pricked pulling herslf up)..NOW GET THIS YOU IGNORANT "FRIENDS"!! The whole year(GOAL) is to win the breeders cup!!! Sherriffs (or any good trainer) before the season, maps out a plan...DO YOU GET THIS? whats wrong with you? He wasnt hiding her! ducking!!! 5 grade 1s!! you people really are this stupid? sherriffs doesnt hardly ever ship...why map out a plan to ship her anywhere? GET THIS PEOPLE. THESE RACES WERE ALL PREPS...This is why her best races were in the cup!!! Rachel didnt get to the cup! she didnt play in the championship...atlanta brave of horseracing....Zenyatta should have won hoy 3 yrs in a row..curlin whooped in championship.next yr she won champ/rachel didnt...last yr she ran just a freak race ...by the way..she beat many graded horses in that race...and in case you havent figured out why she won...she is a MARE!!!! get this thru your head..if she was a colt, then you people might have a beef for losing by inches...SHE is a MARE!!! they are slower than males....So if a two yr old runs against an older top horse, loses by an inch....that means the 2yr old isnt exceptional?  why are you "friends" so mentally challenged?   SHE IS A MARE!! she essentially tied the colt....FIGURE IT OUT!  the ran same beyer!!! the ran the same, and she was a girl..and came from 20 back!!!

Bob From Boston,

Had to be Jaclyn Smith.

Reading this blog has made me even more confused than usual.

How come Zenyatta is in contention for HOY in 2011?

I thought that a horse actually had to run in a race during the year to be a possible HOY.

If this is wrong, I hereby nominate Northern Dancer for HOY in 2011 .  After all, he would have been 50 years old this year and I think a fellow old fogey deserves HOY more than a young whipper-snapper of a mare ....especially considering that ND wiz robbed by that Kelso horse (ha! gelding!) in 1964 .

(p.s.  I really, really would love a sarcasm emoticon right now ... or some other sign for "enough already")

Draynay

Try Buckpasser's three year old year for starters Dray.  He was ineligible for the Martha Washington and the Fantasy and the Fair Ground Oaks, but he still managed to have a pretty good year.  Just one of dozens and dozens and dozens.

Mike Relva:

Good point, no I don't.......

Just don't see why everyone of Mr. Shandler's blogs regardless of subject turns into a Zenyatta bashing from clueless individuals who have nothing better to do then try and claim their 15 minutes of fame.  I have spent about 55 years as a racing fan and enthusiast and I have never seen such nasty bloggers as some of these act towards a beautiful and gifted animal. It is shameful...........  

Horse of the Year was decided on the track last year, that's why ZENYATTA got it. A desperate nose win by BLAME, with her coming at him like a rocket at the end, and the two of them being side by side with him winning a head bob after her bad trip is hardly a definitive win. Besides, she won 5 Grade 1's last year. She was also 19 for 19 coming in, and the biggest story horse racing has seen in years. So she lost by a nose after being 20+ lengths out? She was the leader for Horse of the Year throughout last year, so she would have had to finish out of the money to lose the award. It was hers, and all she had to do was run well, and she did that and more. She ran great. It's amazing to be 12th at the mile marker, have about 24 seconds to go, and finish like that. It was astounding. BLAME had 3 Grade 1 wins on the year, and a sound 4 length whipping in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. ZENYATTA never got whipped in her life.

Great training job by Shirreffs? Please. A great training job would have been bringing her to Churchill a week earlier so she could have had a work over the track. That way she wouldnt have had as much trouble handling the surface at the start of the race. It was a critical error by a guy who was too overconfident and got caught up in the hype surrounding her streak.

Great trainers are the ones that can get their horses to wheel back successfully off of short layoffs and get them to run well in a variety of circumstances. Not picking the easiest spots to run in order to keep a streak alive.

I'd take any one of 100 trainers in this sport over John Shirreffs. Just look at his win % and other vital statistics.

Laz- now that was a truly great 3 yr old season.

Horse of the Year is Frankel.

Wake Up America!!

Paula- I though you were going to say my husband says they all pale next to Sophia Loren.    

Good riddance to Rick Dutrow,and as a big Z fan, she's retired...enough! We could argue Secretariat vs Man O War at this point and it's all the same. Hope both her and Rachel's foals are healthy and they make it to the races someday. I'm rooting for Mo but will be smiling to see Tizway (loved watching the classic pre race show the year his daddy repeated...brought tears to my eyes) or HDG cross the line first. It's gonna be GREAT! Oh and the Union Rags story that is unfolding is so great too...smile people!

Mr. Shandler,

Your post this morning really irks me to say the least. Particularly the following,

"Not picking the easiest spots to run in order to keep a streak alive."

That is your opinion not a fact.

If that was true she wouldn't have shipped to Churchill and run in the Classic.

Second, those races in California were open stakes races for fillies/mares and not restricted.

Who shipped in? WHO!

The reality is if she went to Saratoga and ran in a race like the Ruffian or Personal Ensign the field sizes would've dwindled.

C'mon dude? The Moss's, John Sheriffs these are the good people in this sport. Geez Louise!

She beat a better field in the '09 Classic and lost HOtY. It happens.

Zenyatta beat Switch in 2010 who won a Grade 1.

Details, People, Details!

Winnah Pickah: Your passion is compelling but it doesn't fit the bill. Forget about shipping to the Saratoga, what about staying in California to race in the Hollywood Gold Cup or Goodwood, which were on the same day as those other filliy and mare races that she had won the last two years? Dont be so naive to think they werent concerned about the streak.

And for the 100th time, Zenyatta beat Switch BEFORE she became a G1 winner. You dont count that as defeating a G1 winner. Details people!

Can't we all agree to disagree and leave the HOY 2010 issue?  Arguing on this forum isn't persuading anyone.  Take your bickering to private e-mail if you feel the need. I'm reading this blog to learn more about THIS year--everything everyone has said re: last year has been said over and over on many forums.

Jason, I'd be curious to know what (if anything) you know about Blind Luck's physical/mental state.

And finally--back to our originally scheduled programming--BC Classic.  It's gonna be a heck of a race.  

Kansas: This is only a guess, but I do believe Blind Luck had a minor issue prior to her last race. It was very odd that she had three months off and missed a few works in between. Something didnt add up for me. Hollendorfer told me that he didnt want to train her at Del Mar because she didnt like the surface and that was the reason for missed works. But I wasn't buying it. Again, only an educated guess. I have no idea what her injury is now.

Excuse me..I must be going nuts but isn't this article about HOTY 2011? Why are we discussing Zenyatta and Rachel both of whom have already been HOTY and are presently barefoot and pregnant and living like Queens? I'm sure they don't give a flying "you know what" about HOTY or racing anymore. So I shall repeat myself ...HAVRE, enough said!!!

She WON! (HOY) Get over it!

 Once again, Jason, you're just making up your own definitions as you go along in this argument. Switch doesn't qualify as a Grade 1 winner because she won her multiple Grade 1s AFTER Zenyatta beat her? Please!

 Read my lips: Zenyatta beat Switch: Switch is a multiple Grade 1 winner! How hard is that for you to understand? And please don't tell me that it doesn't qualify because it happened after. It was the same horse, for heaven's sake! Are we somehow to believe that there were two different Switches, one who got beat by Zenyatta and the other who reeled off 2 G1s? You need to get out of the realm of fantasy and look at the PPs.

 I could also argue from the other side of this. You said, "Zenyatta beat no male horses or Grade 1 winners", etc. Question: When was the last time you watched the 2010 BCC video, the one you love to bring up constantly with girlish glee? There were 12 runners in that race, 11 of them males. Math time!Zenyatta beat 10 of them; therefore, Zenyatta beat 10 male horses! I might also point out that the two horses finishing in the distance behind her (some 3 lengths and more) were multiple Grade 1 winner and future multiple Champion Lookin At Lucky, along with multiple G1 and Classic-placed Fly Down. Yet you say she never beat any G1 winners? I don't know what fantasy world you live in where you twist facts at will to re-write the past, but you're not fooling the history books. Read all of this if you decide to reply, I don't want one or two lines taken out of context and exaggerated. Can anyone state FACTS to dsprove anything I've said here? Give your sources!

 Jason, I'm TOTALLY with you on the Blind Luck subject.  The whole Del Mar thing didn't add up for me either.  If nothing was wrong with her why not simply leave her up north at Hollywood or Santa Anita during the Del Mar meet like so many others do?  With so many of these horses the trainers are battling this and that daily.  It really is an artform keeping these horses in one piece.  I have NO facts to back this up but I believe they've been fighting one issue or another with her all season.  To add to their problems Havre de Grace picked a bad time to get scary good.

Zenyatta beat Switch BEFORE she became a G1 winner. You dont count that as defeating a G1 winner. Details people!  Thank you Jason.  You are 100% right on this.  

I was so bothered a year or so ago when someone (not you) posted that Rachel Alexandra beat the winner of the Travers and Jockey Club Gold Cup.  She certainly did not.

Jacob: It's a shame that you dont understand horse racing. I dont have the time or the desire to explain it to you. Just keep believing what you want to.

Smoking Baby: I just got off the phone with Mr. Hollendorfer. What a pleasure he was to speak to, especially when I asked him the results of Blind Luck's MRI and whether she would run again. If you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to him, use your imagination on how he answered me.

A three month layoff and an unconvincing explanation from the trainer about missed works, the horse never engaged in her next race, little from the jockey except " she couldn't keep up," then a terse announcement that Blind Luck will not race in the Breeder's Cup Ladies Classic, all climaxed by the announcement of her sale in November with little or no comment or speculation in the racing press as to what had happened to this elite filly. Why the seemingly lack of curiosity at the Bloodhorse about this enigmatic chain of circumstances ? Hopefully, Jason or Steve  will get to the bottom of this and a column will be forthcoming.

The title of he blog is: "Handicapping the Race for Horse of the Year". So I imagine Zenyatta and Blame are running again this year in the Classic?

Brother..give it a rest already.

Will: I just called Hollendofer and asked how she was. His response: "I don't think it's anyones goddamn business."

I then asked him if she would run against next year, if he trained her. His response is not able to be printed on this site.

FACT:  2009 BC Classic winner; Zenyatta.

FACT:  2009 HOTY; Rachel Alexandra.

FACT:  2010  BC Classic winner; Blame by a head over        

            Zenyatta.

FACT:  2010 HOTY; Zenyatta.

FACTS:  Both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra are in foal.

Let's agree on the facts and move on.  Maybe, just maybe, these offspring will meet in 2014 or 2015.

As this blog started out, this Classic may have a lot to say about the 2011 HOTY.  Since I can't cash any tickets on a HOTY pick, I need a four horse box.  Any suggestions?

THIS I UNDERSTAND:

These horses are a joke. None of them can go 10 furlongs without throwing their lungs out.

That overrated overhyped Rachel Alexandra career wise is the ONLY HOTY THAT DID NOT WIN ONE SINGE 10 furlong race and NEVER EVER ENTERED ONE OPEN GRADE 1 RACE at 10 furlongs....

THAT IS HOW BAD THIS OVERRATED SPEED HORSES ARE...

ANYBODY SEE the stretch run in the Travers...they were so damn tired after 8-9 furlongs they looked like a bunch of drunks trying to find the finish line...

OH Havre de Grace, my Gawd, another overrated female just like Rachel. She cannot even beat Blind Luck at 10 furlongs and they expect her to be a favorite?

OH YEAH...true the MALE sucks but that is how overrated she is....

BTW JASON, if you don't count Switch wins after Zenyatta beat her, then what does that say about Rachel's gawdawful competitions in 2009????

HEY DRAYNAY,

stop hyping that overrated overhype Rachel....she best nothings....she only got lucky that the top 3 year olds were injured that year and that super duper MACHO AGAIN was the top handicap horse...

YOU PEOPLE GET A GRIP....

RACHEL IS AN OVERRATED OVERHYPED HORSE...

Career wise, the only HOY that never won any 10 furlong race and never ever entered an open grade 1 race at 10 furlongs...

DID YOU GET THAT DRAYNAY...

SHE IS THE ONLY HOY with that sad resume...oh and Favorite Trick does not count, there is no 10 furlong race for 2 year olds....

ZENYATTA RAN ONE OF HER BEST RACES IN THE 2010 CUP...YOU THINK A PREP RACE OVER CHURCHILL, MAKES HER LIKE A TRACK? ARE YOU SERIOUS? GREAT LOGIC JASON..SO, YOU WANT HER TO RUN IN WHAT RACE EXACTLY?...HE MAPPED OUT A PLAN BEFORE THE SEASON....ALL GRADE ONES...PREPS TO GET TO THE CUP....DUH.......AND QUIT SAYING SHE NEVER BEAT GRADE 1S......HOW MANY DID SHE BEAT IN THE 2010 CUP?   AND ZEN BEAT MORE GOOD HORSES IN 2009 THAN RACHEL EVER DID....IN THE CUP!!!!  EARS UP!!!

BOTH RACHEL AND ZENYATTA ARE IN FOAL? GREAT!!! HERE COMES THE POST FROM COLDCUTS!!!! HIS WACKY VIEW THAT GREAT RACEMARES DONT HAVE GREAT FOAL.......CANT WAIT FOR THAT POST....

Laz, Buckpasser did have a stellar 3YO campaign. I was thinking about, and Man O'War's was fairly decent too. /sarc/

Since Zenyatta's last race, how many Western horses, running in Western races, have graced the cover of The Blood Horse Magazine? Less that 10%? Less than 5%? Over sixty publications, has there been even one?

Let me get this straight - Hollendorfer's response was "no one's business" even though she is up for sale next month?? His answer is clearly the best way to show what a sound, defect-free animal that Blind Luck is and surely will only increase her sale price...I know when I go horse shopping, I always want to buy the horse with the mystery problem from the ---- owner/trainer. If you can't tell, I'm laying the sarcasm on pretty thick. And for the "----", feel free to use your imagination...

Rachel Alexandra was not overhyped! She was overwrought--they made her prove it, over and over, and eventually that GREAT filly couldn't beat Zardana--Stop bashing the fillies! Rachel Alexandra was Precisionist in female form, and Zenyatta was, at 1 1/4, one of the greatest all time horses the sport has produced! We talk about them today because there is nothing, NOTHING--that remotely compares to them in racing right now--Harve De Grace? Nice filly, ALMOST as good as Blind Luck--beaten 4 of 6 by that pint sized filly--both couldn't get within three lengths of Rachel's arse--both would be made ordinary by Big Z at 10 furlongs--enough!

Jason, are you sure you didn't accidentally call Wilford Brimley?

Jason, most do not agree with your assessment of Shirreff's training skills.  Despite the glaring difference in earnings with the winners, John came in second in Eclipse award voting for trainer of the year two years in a row.  You contradict yourself by criticizing both his low win percentage and his management of the great mare, the result of which was a 95% win ratio (at the top level).  

She beat you in the '09 BC Classic Jason, get over your bitterness.

I like Candy: I got all my money back, and then some, in the 2010 Classic. Much of the money was from bloggers like you who bet me and lost. Believe me, I am over 2009.

"John came in second in the Eclipse award for trainer."

He lost. Get over it.

Help! I give up! All I want to talk about is 2011 and they won't go away!! The buzzing in my head!!! AAARRRGGH!

(This is supposed to be humorous. You will let me know if it isn't. I know you will.)

I have defended Mr Hollendorfer before, but he could have said the same thing politely.  That is too bad that he answered you that way Jason.

I, too, think Uncle Mo has a chance at HOY--if he cruises in the Classic, and the way it is shaping up, I can see him wiring the field--there does not seem to be many, if any, ten furlong types on board--I thought Twirling Candy's Pac Classic was sneaky good--but he's fallen on hard times, too--tough for a West Coast fan right now! Right now I'm on Smiling Tiger, Unzip Me (at a big price!), Weemissfrankie (N Y bred Cali horse!), I love the N Y bred 2yo turf filly Pure Gossip--she has paid 37-1 and 23-1, in both races she had trouble yet was tons the best, and I think she will win her BC race! Don't sell Awesome Gem short, he looked lights out in the Longacres Mile, and came home nice in the Goodwood--in a weak year, Awesome Gem can make some noise, and he'll fetch a price, as well! So many missing this year! Blind Luck, Acclamation, Animal Kingdom are huge losses, I was hoping Unusual Heat (Acclamation) would have a big winner, there's still a fine Cal-bred, Ultra Blend, in Ladies Classic, I like, no love, Zazu in there, Creative Cause is a nice colt but I wouldn't take too short of a price on him--The West has really gone down in quality, not like the good ol days, when it was pratically even steven--Shirreffs has a nice miler, Mr Commons--do not sell him shert in the turf mile, Goldikova is beatable--if the ARC winner goes in the Turf Classic, they're running for second, she would be the main attraction, especially if it's firm turf--she is some kinda good, a winner of three straight monster performances! Uncle Mo in The Classic, don't tell Draynay his sire is a Cal-bred!

The streak had taken on a life of it's own--you act as if ONLY the Moss's were concerned about it--believe me, The Breeders Cup was concerned about it! Horse Racing was concerned about it! The bitterness is palpable on this site!

Did I just read an article where Frankel's trainer says he is possible for the Breeders Cup ?  My, My, My...Remember where you heard it first...hahahah.

Yesterday the humor was light hearted, Jason. Today it takes on a harder edge.

 Jason.  Wow, sorry about the Hollendorfer thing.  Seems a bit uncool to me.  Thanks for attempting to satisfy our curiosity about Blind Luck.  The mystery continues....

Well i see that changing the title of the blog doesn't change a thing.

And chucky has now joined the conversation with his CAPS on, and KY VET forgot to keep his OFF.

Deacon is the man of reason.

Paula Higgins must be a great person to have on your side. Loyal

as a hearth side pup. Refreshing that Paula gets in the middle and fights for the ladies.Thanks Paula.

Draynay     left blank on purpose

Full moon could be what's behind so many of the posts.

Jason - can't get over saying

"get over it, she lost." or

"she lost, get over it."

Racing Fan i agree with you on Goldikova and said so last year that she should not get our highest award for winning one race on our soil.

I love her to death and i hope she wins again after a little rest and she just might do it. But not the highest award because of.

Bob from Boston, you need to check in with Jason to find out when he is about to post a new blog. You are slipping in the "post first'

department. And it is throwing all the other comments off for me.

As for the phone call about Blind Luck,i am concerned and not at all

in a positive way. Reason given for her rest before if i remember what i read correctly, was she has sore or tender or something hooves. A shame that she has won so many races and is now being treated almost as a throw away. I hope not. Why would Hollendorfer be so mean spirited when asked about her?  (did i spell his name right?)

After all she has won well over 3 million $$$. She has earned a stall or a paddock some place for sure for life whether she races again or not.

As far as Horse of The Year. Too

early to make even a wise guess.

I know he cannot race and has been retired, but i had Cape Blanco in my equation. Still say what a heart to win with a broken shoulder. When i broke mine i could not even breath much less walk pain free and for sure not run.

I don't see the ones touted as being the one, The One. What started out as a year that no one thought would end up with any horse worth a darn, here we have names coming at us and joining the mix with each new race.

Frankly i like it that way, as i have also said it gives many more horses the chance to shoot for titles and keeps each race intriguing.

Criminal Type - have you or anyone heard how Here Comes Frazier is doing? Has he had his operation?

WinnahPickah nice to see your posts.

Thanks Jason. Have a nice weekend.

Matthew W,

Thank you so much for your post on Rachel and Z.  Rachel was not over-hyped. There has never been nor will there ever be another 3 year old filly that did what she did.  She has been belittled for everything she ever did.  History will remember her quite differently than some of the bloggers do.

A bit off point, (!), but wish out loud TVG would, when they show the post parade, include the damsire! Also American Buffalo, N Y  bred two year old--very inpressive turn of foot in his debut (loss)! 45 min ago... That's a hoss wit'a future!

John Shirreffs winning % has less to do with his training skills and more to do with the fact that he runs good horses, and places them against other good horses--claimi9ng trainers will usually have a higher % cuz the nature of the claiming game is run'em where they can/will win, per necessitation--I'd use John in a heartbeat--a nice older horse? You bet! Derby? You bet again--I did, wps, horse by the name of Giocomo! 15 win/$760, saved my day, got me fed, good racing, good sushi, and that (the killer shshi and a couple glasses of chablis!) was the key to my marital "winners circle" too, that day! HaHa, talk about a good day! I still wanna thank John Shirreffs!

Jason

What would really be appropriate with regards to your respectful feelings towards Zenyatta is to publicly slam her on your TV show on Saturday and invite a response from the millions that are watching and hanging on your every word.  I’m sure that probably 80% of those watchers will agree with you and want to raise you up on their shoulders and parade you in front of the grandstand at Churchill on ladies day at the Breeders Cup.

Tried to get thru to Hollendorf, Jason, and finally got him after several attempts. He was apologetic and said the reason he was so tight-lipped and abrupt with you about BL was because you called collect. He wouldn't reveal anything to me, but promises full disclosure if you ring him back on your own nickel. Thought I'd better try himself since some of the bloggers' comments demonstrated that they took you seriously in your response to me, and I thought they deserved a better try than they got from Bloodhorse.  

Linda,  Per Google : Here Comes Fazier had surgery this morning. Dr Bramlage At Rood anmd Riddle performed the operation which they are saying was similar to the surgery performed on Orientate who came back and won the Breeders Cup sprint later in his career. I also read yesterday that Animal Kingdom who suffered a hock fracture, though not compound, is jogging under tack at Fair Hill in the Shedrow after a month on the aguatreadmill. Same goes Toby's Corner. They should be a couple more months getting back to the track. I expect we will get official updates on Here Comes Frazier after he stabilizes post surgery.

I love your post, Linda in Texas.  Somehow, I knew you had written it even before I got to the end.

Tell me how RA did as a four yr old? I'm waiting.

Mike Relva 12 Oct 2011 9:45 PM

I'll Answer that one for you Mike.  Rachel ran in 5 races won two and came in second 3 times, never finishing off the board, compared to Blind Luck running in 7 races winning 3 and losing 4 while running dead last in her last race, beaten 30 lengths i believe,  before being secretly whisked away to retirement, and being sold.  Thank goodness Rachel was not treated this way.  And thank goodness Rachel always had enough class to be in the money in all of her starts as a 4 year old after a much tougher season than the one Blind Luck had.  

And more importantly thank goodness for everyone being able to see, and for Jerry Hollendorfer finally being exposed. His bush league antics and rants when questioned about BL’s being nominated to 5 races in Sept and not showing up to 1. His rants about getting weight from a horse he had defeated before and his rants about simple questions about a great rivalry when he was very aware that his horse had been knocked out from a battle with a Great filly in HDG who was ready for more after the Del Cap, well it seems like Karma and irony how this 4 year old came back and couldn’t hold a candle to the 4 year old campaign of Rachel’s.  Just a matter of a difference in the quality of the horse and the lack of quality and sportsmanship from Blind Luck’s trainer. And someone stated HOY was a possibility, lol.  I guess thats what you get from the West Coast lovers. Hey west coast does your hope all fall back on Zazu now, LOL.

To the many people that don't understand the sport....many of have the idea that good horses dont have problems...almost ALL of these horses have problems...holendofer running a hurt horse? SO WHAT!!! Thats what a trainers job is MANAGING the horse...keeping them as sound as the can....some you give more time some less...THIS IS THE GAME!! LEARN IT!...most all the horse win hurt....why do you think they run every 2 days? BLIND LUCK RAN GREAT FOR OVER 3 years...!! REMARKABLE!!

MONICA V....a few veteran horsemen are already calling Rachel overrated...sorry and it is going to get worse.

AFLEETALEX...still hyping that overrated Rachel eh? HAHAHAHA

As far as Rachel's retirement, why don't you ask how Steve A. feel about it? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Linda in Texas, thank you for your kind words! Yes, I am loyal to what I believe in. If we ladies do not stick together, we lose. There is power in numbers. Monica, you are so right about Rachel. She was a magnificent horse. While I place Zenyatta slightly ahead of her, I would put Rachel right behind her with Ruffian. I loved Rachel. She was guts personified. She gave it everything she had as a three year old and then some. She is one of the greats. I was one of those who was always glad she didn't face Zenyatta because I didn't want either one to lose. (Sorry Jason, I know that makes you cringe.) Footlick, funny you mentioned Sophia Loren because she IS one of my husband's all time favorite women. An earth mother with a sense of humor and a brain, and a sex Goddess all rolled into one. However, he is on a Sophia Vergara kick right now and we watch Modern Family religiously. Jason, Jerry Hollendorfer sounds like a real prince among men. Whew! What is his problem? ITA with you about Blind Luck. Something is wrong with her and they are just unloading her. I hope she goes to a good home. However, you and I do not agree about John Shirreffs. There are many good and great trainers in racing and John is among them. I am thinking you two do not get along or have had some not so warm and fuzzy words in a press conference??? Just my gut that there is more going on here. Deacon, ITA with your post about trashing these gorgeous animals who give us so much. Well said.

The only criteria I use for HOY is which thoroughbred has given me the most goosebumps while watching the video replays. Blind Luck and Havre de Grace get honorable mention but WINTER MEMORIES prevails.

AAF

Bushleague? You know that subject well, don't you? Speaking of it, noticed when you took a shot at BL running last(first time she ever finished off the board) you left out the part that something was obviously wrong with her. Thanks for being your regular bushleague self! As for RA, don't pretend you knew the wheels would fall off last yr. Stop downplaying it!

JACOB

You got that right! She sure didn't get beat by the other ten, did she?

Rachel Alexandra most likely will be thought of as trailblazer: a portend to things to come.  It is likely that this year's HOtY will also never have won at the 1 1/4 mile distance.  Please, do continue with your disrespect of Zenyatta....

JASON

Everytime you bring up John's winning percentage you know full well he has a far smaller barn than the "end all" Pletcher.

I don't care what some veteran horseman say.  They are entitled to their opinion as are you, Chucky, but I don't understand why it makes you so happy that someone thought she was over-rated.  No other 3 year old filly ever accomplished what she did.  Ever.

Paula, you have always been a very thoughtful and intelligent blogger.  I have always appreciated your posts.

People seem to be stirring an overspilling boiling pot with Blind Luck going into sale.  Has anyone else noticed the other horses going into the FT select sale...try, AZ Warrior, CS Silk, Euroears...28 grade 1 winners.  60 stakes winners.  Why pick on Hollendorfer?

I saw Rachel win the Kentucky Oaks by 20 lengths under wraps live with my one good eye.  I have been watching horse racing my entire life and have a fair knowledge of the history of the sport.  It was the most impressive performance that I have ever seen live and one of the 10 best performances I have seen whether live or on TV.  I can assure you that Rachel was not overrated unless the only person doing the rating is Draynay.

Monica, thank you. You, Linda in Texas, Deacon, Mike Relva,and others love the horses for themselves and not what they can do for your pocketbook. That's what I call a real horseman/woman. Chucky, you do not know what you are talking about. "Veteran horseman" are not a small group. There are alot of them. So if a few have an issue with Rachel's record, that's their opinon and their problem. It just makes them look foolish.  I know enough about horse racing to know Rachel Alexndra was a truly great 3 year old filly. Her record will survive anyone's slings and arrows. As for those who take pleasure in trashing a horse, they discredit the sport and themselves.

You may got me there Draynay (3 Year Old Season).  But how about Lady's Secret's 4 year old season?  RA is not the only to have beaten males.  The Iron Lady beat the best males 4 times that year winning 8 grade 1 races and 10 graded stakes races out of 15 (the most graded stakes win in a single year).  21 lifetime...please (Blind Luck).  The mare had more like 45 starts!  And talk about "old school" Breeder's Cup Distaff at 1 1/4 on the front end! No one got within 5-6 lengths of her.  Now that's HOY material and historically significant.

Chucky, please enlighten us as to who these veteran horseman are that are calling Rachel overrated. And please post links to where we can see this information too. It would be nice to back up your asinine statements with evidence. Thanks.

I Like Candy, the next time a horse wins HOTY without beating a single Grade I winner, and without winning a race against open competition, we will consider Zenyatta a trailblazer for them as well. By the way, how many times has Zenyatta won at 1 1/4 on dirt? No need to answer, a simple empty space in your reply will be 100% accurate.

Jacob, if you don't actually win a race, you can't really brag about beating other horses simply because you finished in front of them. But if you think it is special to brag because you were only the first loser, and not the fifth loser in a race, be my guest. And based on your logic behind Switch, do all those owners with horses that beat Cigar when he was just starting off his career on the turf get to brag about how their horse conquered the great Cigar? Based on your argument, it must be a yes. So the horse that won Secretariat's maiden race should put a feather in his cap for dusting the greatest horse of all time too. Do you really not see the gaping hole in your logic?

Jason, we may be in the minority here, but I prefer to live my life without the rose colored glasses that the "Zenyatta Zealots" always have on.  

224....rachel ran some great races..but that oaks was so weak...the only contender scratched...i thought she would win by 16...what was the beyer?  her good races were the times she beat boys

Jason,

Haven't you finished your Zenyatta Derangement Syndrome therapy yet?

Dude, you need to retake the class or ask for your money back.

im willing to put money up that union rags win HOTY if he wins impressively . any takers????? LOL

Uncle Mo should certainly be horse of year if he wins the classic, why wouldn't he be? What other races did he need to win? He was sick for the KY Derby and didn't make it back in time for the TRavers. What other importtant races are there? But of coarse even if he wins the classic by 10 lenghts and Have De Grace finishes last she'll still be Horse ofthe year just for winning that weak woodward race. Since they gave it to that other filly who was scared of Zenyatta now every year they'll have to give it to a filly who wins that race, and there will probably be lots of them now. They should just change the woodward to a filly race. And fillies should only get extra credit for winning or doing good in races against males at 10 furlongs. If Have De Grace finishes 3rd or better in the classic she deserves horse of the year, but nothing less than that since a win in the ladies classic would be worth more than an off the board finish in the classic. Fillies don't need to be taking up space in the classic just to get credit for running in it when they have their own BC race.

Criminal Type - thank you for the news about Here Comes Frazier. Didn't think to google his name.

Kept waiting to see if Bloodhorse carried the info about his surgery.

Glad to know that a hock fracture is not always a life threatening injury. I guess the only hope is he doesn't get the "L" hoof disease. I love his unusual color, cannot tell if he is black or dark grey. I do not believe he is a bay or dark brown.

Derblin - i do the same thing with many who post here. Some you know with the first word and others it takes a sentence or two.

But thank you. You are a kind and gentle person and i would go so far as to say shy if i were a betting person. I used to be but a few life experiences not expected toughened me up a tad.

I certainly don't like Blind Luck being trashed either. If her trainer has issues, please don't take it out on her, it's not her fault.

For me when it comes to horse racing. The races are never long enough, i could watch the horses run non stop if only they could.

Jason, are you about to think, it is tissue time again?  Did you really call him "Collect" that is funny? He ought to think of the mention of his name as pretty good advertisement.On the other hand, maybe not so much because of the uncertainty of what is bugging Blind Luck. I hope she comes out okay from whatever it is. Now i am going to google Cape Blanco the beautiful Irish Lad with the bum out shoulder.

Cheers and Safe Racing this week end for all.

And Thanks Jason.  

Forgot to mention Rapid Redux's quest for 18 i believe tomorrow,

the 14th.

If Rapid Redux catches up to and surpasses !@%^&**&'s 19 wins, would he be eligible for HOY? Or are claimers not allowed to be considered? I surely wish him a safe trip.

If anyone ever needs a good laugh at pure nonsense just read one of AAF's consistently biased diatribes against anything and everything from the West Coast.  Now he even has the gall to denigrate Blind Luck.  Yes, he conveniently failed to mention that Blind Luck finished 1st or 2nd in everyone of her races, other than the BC Juvenile Fillies where she ran 3rd, until her last race in which something was clearly wrong with her.  He decries Hollendorfer for hoping he would get 32 ounces from HDG in the Del Cap as though that was outlandish.  I don't know, AAF, did Hollendorfer whine when his filly gave HDG 10 pounds but only lost by a neck?  No, the whining came from Rick Porter and Larry Jones after BL beat HDG without feeling the touch of the whip.  Boo hoo.

I'm sure he is delighted that both BL and Acclamation are out of the BC.  All "true" fans of racing should always be thrilled when a horse gets hurt.  Keep it up, AAF, you're a riot.  One thing you're clearly not is a true appreciator of the horses who run for our pleasure.    

I'd take any one of 100 trainers in this sport over John Shirreffs. Just look at his win % and other vital statistics.

Jason Shandler 13 Oct 2011 8:56 AM

I would suppose one telling vital statistic would be a win in both the LC and Classic in the same year.  How many of those supposedly better 100 trainers would have been as patient in handling Zenyatta as John Shirreffs was?  It is a shame you just don't get what she brought to this sport.  Your loss and I'm not talking about having a winning ticket on Blame.

JIMMY

When was the last time a female won the Classic prior to Zenyatta?

Yeah.... you are in a minority!

Paula Higgins

Agree with you totally, good comments.

Other horses for sale at FT are Turbulant Descent, River Jetez, Sassy Image, Smiling Tiger, Summer Soiree, St Trinians, Noble's Promise, Ask The Moon, Rose Cathrine,Pachattack...etc...etc..

..check out the catalogue!

2:24 Your own tag suggests you already know the greatest stretch run in history....31 lengths @ 12f.

RA's run in the Oaks was breathtaking, but she outdid herself 2 weeks later in the Preakness.  There's no denying that her 3 year old season was historical.  

On the other hand, Zen also had a historical career.  She won a BC Classic, and almost...almost did it again a year later.  (Don't you just think Shirreff had her watching Silky Sullivan training films while she was at barn 55?)  I certainly kept a vial of nitro on hand watching her run because the old ticker always went a bit erratic waiting for her to cross the finish line.

Let's not downplay either's accomplishments; they'll both be in the Hall of Fame.

The best runs I've seen this season in America have come from HDG and Cape Blanco. Has any other horse won more than twice?  It's the Euros loaded with talent this year, and the BC looks promising.

AAF and Jason...you both need to stop eating those sour grapes.

Well, obviously people still aren't done.

Thomas: Name the amount you want to bet. I'm in.

So, let's talk about NASCAR. Carl Edwards looks like a horse.

Will and Jason, is it a joke or was Hollendorfer really called collect.  I find it hard to believe that a reporter called someone to ask a question collect. I also think its unlikely that he accepts collect calls. I am a huge Blind Luck admirer but this one really threw me.  Thanks for reply.

Footlick, plenty of good euro horses in Canada this week at Woodbine. What are your thoughts on the trio of races this weekend?

Slew: I do know the greatest performance in horse racing history.  As a famous writer whose name escapes me said about Secretariat's Belmont, "his only point of reference is himself."

I also think Zenyatta was a great mare who accomplished fantastic things.  I think she is an all time great, amongst the 20 greatest North American mares in history.  My only problems are when the Zenyealots blindly back her trainer and owners regarding her 5 year old year and schedule, back her winning HOY in 2010 when Blame clearly had a better year, and/or when they downplay Rachel's 3 year old season or Blame's 4 year old season.  

KY Vet: I perhaps was overcome by seeing Rachel's Oaks live.  I think her Haskell was probably her best performance.  The Preakness and Woodward were awesome too.

Overrated Rachel's 3 year old season was nothing more than a perfect storm.

Top 3 year old males were injured and then the handicap division sucked big time with Macho Again leading the way....

OVERRATED RACHEL career wise is the only HOY that never won any 10 furlong race and never entered an open grade 1 at 10 furlongs...

tells you she is nothing but a 8-9 furlong horse.....and these kind of horses was laughed at when the great routers like Forego, John Henry, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Alysheba etc etc ran...

Now the east is hyping Havre de Grace...WHO DA F is she beating? a bunch of nothings from the east...

ANYBODY WATCH THAT PITIFUL TRAVERS??

when I want a laugh, I go and watch the replay of the stretch run in the Travers...

WHAT A BUNCH OF SAD HORSES FROM THE EAST..so tired after running 8 furlongs, they look like a bunch of drunks going all over the place trying to find the finish line

SO WHAT IS THE East bragging about?

bunch of sad and sorry milers....

Mike Relva, in all actuality, it was a great accomplishment for Zenyatta. She even did it on a surface that has since been ripped up and sent to the landfill for being too inconsistent, and turning great horses average and average horses great. There was nothing better than watching Raven's Pass, a turf miler with distance issues, win the 2008 BC Classic under 2 minutes. He easily could have replicated that effort on dirt. It had absolutely nothing to do with the surface....

Ky Vet.  I agree with you.  My problem with Rachel Alexandra's Oaks was that field she beat.  If there was ever a weaker, less accomplished bunch in the 100 plus year history of the Kentucky Oaks I challenge you to name the year.  Stone Legacy took a year or so to finally win a non-winners of two allowance.  I've still got the form for that day.  Aside from Rachel Alexandra there was only ONE filly (Gabby's Golden Gal) in the race that was in the top ten on the Watchmaker Watch.  Imagine the same scenario in the Derby. The winner would be crucified and the talk would not stop about the weakness of the field but Rachel Alexandra gets a pass for some reason.  I'm not saying she didn't run big because she most certainly did but any of a handful of three year old fillies could've beat that field.

Jimmy.  How many 1 1/4 dirt races did All Along win?  How many 1 1/4 dirt races did Kotoshaan win?  For that matter how many dirt races has Goldikova won at ANY distance?  How many 1 1/4 dirt races did Rachel Alexandra win?  I'm not saying you don't have a point.  I am saying you appear to be singling out one horse.  I will concede you probably wouldn't be singling her out if the rest of us were not deifying her so much but I for one can't seem to help myself.  She really was something and I'm madly in love with her.

 Householder, Lady's Secret also packed 129 lbs. in the Ruffian.  Not too shabby.  I was at Santa Anita when she won the Distaff.  The crowd was already cheering as she rounded the clubhouse turn.  That was the year Smile ran so big in the sprint and Pincay made that huge move at the three eighths pole (game, set, match) with Skywalker in the classic.

Jimmy- interesting to note when they asked Dettori who his biggest threat would be he said Henrythenavigator.  They asked him why not Curlin.  He said the horse is more of a grinder and he can't finish with either of our horses.  He sais all they had to do was keep within striking distance of Curlin.  They also asked him about the distance, and he said Raven's Pass would handle 10 furlongs just fine in the US.  Just giving you Dettori's perspective of the race.  

Jimmy, here is one link for you.  Alan Shuback (DRF 8/31/10) regarding Rachel Alexandra:  "One of the illusions surrounding this very nice but always overrated filly was that she might stay 10 furlongs."  

www.drf.com/.../rachels-limitations-exposed

Was looking to see when Rapid Redux races and i need to make a correction to something i posted, he is a $6500 claimer not a $2500 as i mentioned previously.

Sorry about that. Linda

Smoking Baby,

I too was at Santa Anita when Lady's Secret won the Distaff.  I wasn't on her cause her odds were too low.  Smile was my bet in the Sprint and I remember being one of the few who were smiling climbing stairs to the Clubhouse post race.  Didn't have Skywalker, but a guy sitting in the box next to me did and he didn't act surprised.  

This year I'm looking for a longshot but I wouldn't mind seeing Havre de Grace win the Classic.  HOY?  May depend on BC.

Chucky - favorite trick never won at 10 furlongs.  Zenyatta didn't win at 10 furlong the year she won HOY.  Secretariat didn't win at 10 furlongs when he won in his 2 year old season.   Since when did 10 furlongs become a prerequisite for HOY.

I am so happy to read that Here Comes Frazer, came out of surgery in good shape.  Thankful to the owners and doctors for giving him a chance.  He may even race again.

The SEATTLE MARINERS were the best team of the last 15 yrs in baseball! 116 wins that year! so impressive...What? they didnt win the CHAMPIONSHIP? so....they hardly ever lost a series all year...unreal.....never seen a run like that.....You mean just because they didnt win the championship, they shouldnt be thought of as best american league team ever? YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!! Rachel skipped the championship!! zenyatta won a couple.........GAME OVER!!!!!!

I Like Candy, thank you for one man's opinion. I do find that quote to be interesting seeing how Rachel handled 1 3/16 just fine in the Preakness Stakes when she beat males on dirt. Although Rachel was not able to hold on at 1 1/4 at 4 years old, 4 year old Rachel was clearly a shell of her 3 year old self, so to take her effort in the Personal Ensign and say "see, she could never get 1 1/4" seems a little absurd. But I suppose Rachel and Zenyatta both have something in common - runner up finishes at 1 1/4 on dirt.

I guess they should have included Zenyatta's inability to win a 10furlong race on dirt also, considering she and Rachel share the same record of 0/1 on dirt at 10 furlongs.  Difference in careers between Zenyatta and most good/great horses is that the Curlins, Invasors, Rachels, Saint Liams, Quality Roads, and others are able to compete at the highest level all year long.  LISTEN TO THE MAD MAN NAMED KY VET, ZENYATTA WAS ONLY ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER 30 DAYS OF EXCELLENT FORM EACH YEAR. VET SAID IT CORRECTLY THE BC WAS THE TARGET FROM JAN 1 ON, avoiding the best in the west running in the SA Handicap, HWGC, PAC CLassic and Goodwood, to run in much more respected races like the Vanity, Milady, Santa Margarita and Clement L Hirsch or Lady's Secret, why would there be a need to actually prove on the track that she was the best horse in California when people were just willing to concede that.  Mindless I know, BUT LISTEN TO KY VET, HE KNOWS WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE A HORSE GREAT, MAKING A HORSE GREAT MEANS DEFEATING HOT N DUSTY INSTEAD OF RAIL TRIP. DEFEATING ANABAA'S CREATION INSTEAD OF RICHARD'S KID, DEFEATING RINTERVAL INSTEAD OF DEFEATING TWIRLING CANDY, AND DEFEATING MOON DE FRENCH INSTEAD OF DEFEATING AWESOME GEM.  oh and remember since Zenyatta beat them once in the 2009 BCC on plastic and kitty litter, there was NO NEED TO EVER DEFEAT THE SAME HORSES OVER AGAIN, THE WEST COAST IDIOCY STATES THAT WHEN A HORSE BEATS ANOTHER HORSE THE WINNER IS JUST THE GREATEST HORSE FOR THE REST OF THE CAREER SO THERE IS NO NEED TO CHALLENGE THAT HORSE AGAIN. It was ok to drop back down to facing the optional claimers like cherry blossom miss, and Switch the sprinter, thats her claim to fame and you know what, the Oso's and KY VETS and others of the west coast world will always elevate her in status due to 2 wins. LOL 2 wins, Goldikova has 3 BC wins and Zenyatta couldnt warm Goldikova up, she could be her pony I am sure, but thats about it, Zenyatta and her coward team never deserved to be on the same track as Goldikova.  Im just saying. Glad to see you're back Oso, whatever caused your hiatus, we feel awful, but so happy you are back, you bring the comedy hour and we enjoy laughing not with you but at your expense.  Tell us some more of the greatness of the west coast and that 1/14 record last year or how the west coast horses will sweep the BC this year. lol

Betty S: Since Jason did not respond, I'll step up to the plate. No, Jason didn't call Hollendorfer collect. I was kidding around with him because I didn't think he was being serious with me about Hollendorfer's alleged profane defensive rant by phone. Never thought Jason called him in the first place.  Have since had my attention called to a blog response from Jason claiming a none-too-pleasant call to Hollendorfer about Blind Luck that predated his response to me.  So possibly he did call him and, if so, the answer he received as a writer of a respected thoroughbred industry publication was none too savory, indicates that the trainer would probably not prove too pleasant a dinner companion, and may have been employed to scare off further inquiries about the horse because the answers sought might not reflect too well on him as a trainer. How about it, Jason, do you want to come forth and give a definitive answer as to whether you actually made the call and, if so, confirm that it was as gruff, unpleasant, and profane a response as you described it ?

So if a horse finishes 2nd in a race that means it didn't beat anyone? I never knew that. If Havre De Grace finishes 2nd in the Classic to Game On Dude she won't be considered to have beaten Uncle Mo, Tizway, Stay Thirsty, etc.?? The only grade 1 winning males she'll ever have beaten are Ice Box and Giant Oak in the Woodward? Wow!! If that's the case why isn't the winner of the Classic awarded the whole $5M prize money? The 2nd place finisher gets $900,000, that's a lot of money to give to a horse who didn't beat anyone.

REALITY CHECK......RACHEL AND ZENYATTA were absoutely 2 of the best fillies in the past decade....TREMENDOUS!! combine the fact the older division has been very weak in the past 5 years, explain the fact the fillies beat them......not hard to see that...of course neither proved anything because the never won in europe, or south america...

Jason

I get it! You and John aren't exactly friends.

Aluminaut.  Nice weather that day wouldn't you agree?  I'm sure you remamber Capote beating Gulch and Alysheba, not to mention John Henry being ponied in front of the stands.  I was on the rail shortly after dawn and saw John being jogged the wrong way by Cenicola.  Too cool they took him out for a spin in the morning under tack.

2:24

Favorite Trick is a 2 years old and there is no 10 furlong races for those horses...you can compare Rachel to him if you like...HAHAHA

Never said 10 furlongs was prerequisite for HOY...

I SAID and READ SLOWLY!!

OVERRATED RACHEL CAREER WISE IS THE ONLY WINNER OF HOY THAT

1. never won at 10 furlongs

2. never run in any open 10 furlong grade 1 race

Now..why is this bad?

because the reason she never ran in the 2009 Classic is because it was suppose to be the 'plastic' when the truth is she cannot go 10 furlongs. She also ducked the Travers in 2009 and for that matter any 10 furlong races in her career except the 2010 PE.

She by definition is the weakest ever HOY and only won because of the east disdain for synthetic....

JIMMY

As I stated recently and you ignored, get back to me when Blame ever enters the HOF.

HEY JIMMY... I agree with you...

BLAME SHOULD have won HOY in 2010...

it's called voters REMORSE....

what happened is they voted that overrated Rachel HOY in 2009 instead of Zenyatta...

they saw Rachel quack in the 2010 PE and finally understood she had no chance to beat a good field at 10 furlongs let alone Zenyatta ON ANY SURFACE.....

2009 hoy should have been Zenyatta

2010 hoy should have been Blame

but the eastern pro dirt voters thought Rachel was all that when in fact she is nothing but a miler....

 Chucky, I agree with you.  Rachel Alexandra was without a doubt a filly of extraordinary talent.  Her 2009 season was the result of that and other factors you mentioned.  It was indeed a perfect storm.  Does anyone REALLY think she would've had the same season against the likes of Bernardini, Barbaro, Afleet Alex, Holy Bull, etc.?  To quote her resume, Ky. Oaks, Preakness, Haskell, Woodward, etc. it sound really impressive (and it certainly is) BUT those were some of the weakest versions of those stakes in history.  I'm just saying, great filly, managed to perfection by connections who saw and took advantages of opportunities plus unusually weak competition equals THE PERFECT STORM.  Forget Clooney & Mark Walberg, The Perfect Storm should've starred Asmussen, Jackson & Borel.

 Chucky, I do disagree with you on Havre De Grace.  That filly is a runner and is improving from day to day.  Ignore her at the windows at your own risk.  She'll make some noise on Breeder's Cup day.  Which day is the question.

Update for those who care-

i wrote a comment but had no idea it was after midnite EST and i stated Rapid Redux runs tomorrow, But that really should have said today Friday the 14th.

R R's race will be Friday, October 14, 2011 in the 8th at Charles Town, around 9:25 CST or 10:25 EST.

Per Scott Hazelton on HRTV.com and DRF.

Will: I wasn't kidding about calling Hollendorfer. That is exactly how he answered me.

Billy- started to respond and then my computer decided to reboot itself. I wouldn't go by my picks, but I would probably take Mahbooba and Adventure Seeker, although I wouldn't be surprised with the other two Euro fillies either.  But Mahbooba is a classy filly and Adventure Seekeer is an up and comer for a great trainer/jocckey combo.  In the international, I'll ignore Treasure Beach's Arc and I would take him with Sarah Lynx and Quest for Peace.  But Euros seem to sometimes be a crapshoot in these rraces where the ones you think will win don't.  I did have Joshua Tree and Reggane last year

Jason

Guess my question is what did you do to him? Aware you resent the other CA trainer, but thought you respected Hollendorfer.

AAF. learn the game...a trainer maps out a plan before the season. 5 grade 1s   the goal is the classic....ducking not an issue. rachel is the one that didnt show up.....zenyatta wasnt trying to prove anything. this is why you arent in the business..you dont understand it!! For years, ive never seen a winner from you.....Who exactly do you pick? i know rick porter horse?

Mike Relva, horses are remembered for what they did on the track, not if they are in the hall of fame or not. When you think of Secretariat, do you think of him as a great horse because he won HOTY at 2 and 3 and is in the hall of fame, or because he won the triple crown, ran the greatest race ever in the Belmont Stakes, set a world record while beating an all-star class in the Marlboro Cup, and won top class races on the turf? Was Citation one of the greatest ever because he won HOTY and is in the hall of fame, or because he won triple crown, won 19-20 races as a 3 year old against top competition, etc.? The point is, you can hang your hat all you want on the fact Blame will likely not be in the Hall of Fame, but the fact of the matter is Blame won the 2010 BC Classic and had the best year on the track, including his thrilling victory over Quality Road in the Whitney Stakes. Please refrain from responding with how crappy QR is because of his poor performance in the BC; in August of 2010, he was the top rated horse in the country and was still in peak form. The point is this - Blame doesn't need to enter the hall of fame to prove he is a better horse than Zenyatta. In 2010, he ran in better races, with four out of the five considered the top races in this country. Those races were open to any competition, and at the most historic tracks in the US where the racing is considered elite. The only time Zenyatta entered this level of racing, she lost. Blame beat Zenyatta, fair and square, and proved on that day he was a better horse. Could Zenyatta have beaten Blame? We will never know, because her connections only took one shot at him, but based on their lack of participation in these top races, my answer would be no. Have you ever heard the quote "you can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?" Zenyatta's connections were all talk.

Ally Sheba, glad you are a fan of second place finishers. You must have been going nuts when Zenyatta finished in 2nd place in the BC, or in 2nd place in the HOTY voting in 2009. What an accomplishment! In sports, you play to win. Keep that in mind.

Chucky, I enjoy reading your responses. Some times I wonder if you are being serious or just joking around. Too bad RA didn't run in the Travers in 2009. After all, it's not like she didn't beat the top 3 year old males twice already in the Preakness and Haskell. You must like the Zenyatta mindset of keeping your horse in races you know they will win. God forbid you try something new, like running a 3 year old filly against older male horses in one of the most prestigious races in this country. What were RA's connections thinking? By the way, in 2009, what other races were good enough to validate having Zenyatta as HOTY?

Smoking Baby, Bernardini, Afleet Alex, Holy Bull, or any top notch horse would have dusted Zenyatta. After all, if this "terrible" colt Blame could beat her, what chance would she have against those superstar horses? Do yourself a favor and go back and take a look at the times/beyers/records Rachel set in nearly all of her 2009 races. But Zenyatta was very impressive running down Anabee's Creation in the Clement Hirsch Stakes to catch her by a nose. Any time you can beat a horse that was 1 for 10 with an allowance victory, clearly you are running in top class races....

Thanks, Will and Jason---maybe we will never know.  Sure wish they would arrange a private sale if they can't keep her.  A true champion on the auction block; I think it just shouldn't happen.

SMOKING BABY...Havre de Grace~!!??

See here is the problem with HdG. She lost to BL I think twice at 10 furlongs. BL avoided Zenyatta. Flat out was getting to her at 9 furlongs and the biggest problem with her is...drum roll

SHE HAS NO KICK....she just have a steady finishing run...she looks like she has a kick but that is an illusion...the horses she has been beating are just running slower at the stretch....

THROW OUT IN THE CLASSIC.....besides watch the first turn in the Classic...SHE IS GOING TO GET MUGGED...

Thanks for clarifying the matter about Hollendorfer, Jason. I guess your ear's still ringing from that call !

Tizway has a good shot at HOY but with a Classic win as well as does Havre de Grace.  Why is Havre de Grace training at Keeneland on polytrack when the race is at Churchill on dirt?  Don't get that scenario, I know she is versatile, but why not ship directly into Churchill?  She seems to take everything in her stride and doesn't panic, a good sign of a champion.  Mo too, the same way.  

News 12 NJ actually mentioned and showed footage of ROI in their sports segment the other day.  Whoa, hold on, a state actually mentioning their BC Classic representative, kudos News 12!

Don't like the fact about Blind Luck being sold.  Everything will change for her now, her surroundings, her owners, etc.  They have great stallion deals at farms why do the broodmares have to get sold?  Don't the top farms have a certain amount of top filly broodmares on hand?  It would be heartbreaking if she went overseas and is never heard of again, have we heard anymore of Sweet Ducky, no.  I don't know how one can campaign a top filly like that and then sell her out and step out of her caregiving and future?  Even if she is a business interest look at all she has done for them; I'd secure her future not sell her as I am sure they are not destitute.

Go Mo!  Go Havre!  Go Tizway! Go ROI!

Smoking Baby whenever I hear that line "Do you really think so and so would have had the same year if they had run against yada yada yada" it makes me laugh. Well, maybe Rachel would have beaten Bernadini et al. There is no way to know. Do we think Seabiscuit would have beaten Secretariat or Dr. Fager would have beaten Man O' War? These hypotheticals are useless exercises in futility and are not relevant to a discussion of Rachel's greatness. All great horses lose races and they usually lose to lesser horses. Their greatness is based on their accomplishments. In her 3 year old year, Rachel beat males again and again. Enough said.

Smoking Baby,

Your problem with RA is the field she beat in the Oaks?  She won by 20 lengths.  Had there been better competition she would have still won but maybe by 10 lengths.  She was so much the best.  Her win in the Mother Goose was another bad field with only two running against her.  She has been bad mouthed for that because she didn't beat anybody.  She broke the stakes record and had she not been eased the last 100 yards, she would have broken Secretariat's track record.  She was 1/5 of a second off it being EASED.  Oh, yes, she was totally over-rated.  AS for the 10 furlongs, Borel had her run like she did in the Woodward, running it like a sprint.  Had she rated off the lead, she probably would have won it.  If I recall correctly, she was a few lengths ahead of the 3rd place finisher.  She was ten lengths ahead of Life at Ten.  I don't know why I answer these posts other than I hate to see a horse like Rachel being called such demeaning things by people who obviously take great joy in doing so. Weak fields is always an excuse for people who can't think of anything else.  I've heard that excuse used against a lot of great horses.  I was even called out once for calling Rachel a great horse.  According to one she never beat anybody and how dare I call her "great".  It's all in how you look at things I suppose.  

Smoking Baby.  I think that Breeder's Cup Distaff is probably one of the best.  It may have been Pat Day's finest work as a jockey aboard Lady Secret and it often overlooked.  You could just hear HOY with all 900lbs. of her just cruising down the stretch.  She just ran then off their feet.  

Hollendorfer "bush track?"  He seems to be the only west coast trainer that satisfies the easts' request that horses ship to the "finest" and most historic tracks in order to be considered the "best."

Here are some of the "bush league" races Hysterical Lady won.

2 time winner of the Molly Pritcher

Azeri

Humana Distaff

Fleur de Lis

Delaware Handicap

2nd by a head to Ginger Punch in the Ladies Classic in the goo at Monmouth.

Then we could go back a little with Lite Light or was it Light Lite vs. Meadow Star.

Seems to me that Hollendorfer filly may have won the Kentucky Oaks by many lengths.

I guess "Hammer Time's" west coast dress code was a little too lax for those crusty uptight easterners in New York though.  He had to put a shirt on to get into the club house.    

I'm not sure if the east is still keeping score but seems to me that Blind Luck has beat HDG just a few more times than HDG has beat Blind Luck.  I assure you these races did not take place ANYWHERE in California but rather at the "Bush Tracks" of the east.  

Many trainers could learn a thing or two from the "Bush leager."  

Rachel Alexander may have won by 20 but based on her final time, Lite Light still puts her head in front of her.  And her 8 length win over Meadow Star in some crappy race called the Coaching Club American Oaks allowed her to hold the stakes record a few years at 200.54.

"Do do da do...Can't touch this."

KY Vet...I guess you never heard of Azeri?  Rags to Riches?  Zarkava?  Goldikova?  Black Caviar? Dar Re Me?

AAF:  West Coast idiocy?  does that include Lava Man? Sunday Silence? Kona Gold? Tiznow? John Henry? Midnight Lute? Sham? Unusual Heat?  Lookin at Lucky? Native Diver? Zenyatta?

These horses are treasures.  Anyone who refuses to acknowledge their accomplishments is a damn fool who has no business posting on any racing site.

 Monica V.  First of all anything I post is only my opinion and I could be wrong.  No big deal.  I'll have to go back and take a look at my posts and see if I called Rachel Alexandra something demeaning.  If I did, MY BAD, I take it back.  And for the record those were two nice fillies she outran in the Mother Goose.  All I'm saying is that you can win by 21 lengths (Kentucky Oaks)if your main competition runs her last quarter in 30 seconds or so (look at the chart and figure Stone Legacy's final quarter).  I'm sorry if my comment/opinion rubs you the wrong way.  You could be right that she's as good as you say.

AFLEETALEXFOREVER

"Highest Level all year long..."

Are you refering to the time Quality Road beat Dry Martini?

The horse is now 0-10 with his last win coming in July 2009.

Do you even know what you write when you are talking about Zenyatta's lack of "black type."

Dry Martini?  Really?

JIMMY

QR didn't have his A game in his last race did he? Last I checked the mare beat EVERY horse in that race but one. Or are you living in a pure fantsy everyone beat HER?

KY VET

Agreed! The racing world would be in greater trouble than it already is, if AAF owned/trained.

I am not going to name names, but I know for a fact that Ted from LA quit posting here because Jason kept calling him collect begging for picks.  Ted didn't mind at first, but it started to cut into his profits too much.  In FACT, he picked 7 winners of 11 races recently, but in figuring the cost of Jason's collect calls, he actually only had enough money left to buy a king sized bed for his spare room.  As of now, Ted doesn't know any kings, but if one ever does visit, he is going to be very comfortable.

Who is going to the BC this year?

Jimmy are you serious? The reason these horses end up in The Hall of Fame is BECAUSE of what they did on the track. Your reasoning lacks logic. As for Zenyatta not being able to beat Blame, that's rubbish to anyone with eyes. Apparently you didn't see her come from 16 behind, then get stopped by QR, only to smoke the field. Blame was tripping the light fantastic without a care in the world. He had a very easy trip without any problems to overcome, and on his favorite track by he way. Any other day he would have been toast. He got very lucky. THAT is why she got HOTY because of the way she ran that race. THAT is what people will always remember about the 2010 BCC. Not that Blame won with an easy trip, but that Zenyatta ran her greatest race.

LOL...JIMMY still hyping the OVERRATED RACHEL!!

hey yimmi Bernardini and Holy Bull might (and that is a big might) beat Zenyatta just imagine what they would do with MILER RACHEL!!

OH she skipped the Breeders cause she would be done running after 9.5 furlongs.....If you have time, go to Saratoga and if you look closely....there are still some eggs there that market hype Rachel laid in the 2010 PE...HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Rapid Redux Wins again.

MISSING THE POINT!!! Blame and zenyatta ran essentially the same! What you people dont get, is ZENYATTA is a MARE!!!!!! That is the point!!!If a mare is as good as the male, it is more impressive to who?   THE GIRL!!!!! WHY CANT YOU FIGURE THIS OUT? this is why she will be in halloffame...and blame is never gonna be...if a 2yr old runs as fast as older horse...who is more impressive?  GET IT? Are you people stupid? why cant you figure it out? she lost by inches....and she was so freakish with that 6 furlong move, that anyone that knows horseracing was more impressed by her than blame...SHE PROVED SHE WAS JUST AS GOOD AS BLAME.....Everyone i know was talking more about her than the winner.....But get this straight>>>>>>IT ISNT A QUESTION OF IF BLAME WAS BETTER>>>>SHES A GIRL>>>>>>>WHAT WAS PROVED>>>>>WAS SHE WAS JUST AS GOOD!!!!!!

Betty S: Share your sentiments about Blind Luck. It's a very sad thing that looms ahead for this filly. Being put on the public auction block asap after all she's done for Hollendorfer and his three partners. Wiping their hands of her and casting her adrift seems so heartless. Hopefully, she stays in the States and, in the best of all scenarios, in Kentucky. Going overseas would be a real downer. She was a great shipper, but that's not a place she needs to go - true American champion filly that she is.

Paula, your response has too many holes in it to respond to, but I will try my best. As for Zenyatta not being able to beat Blame, please go back and watch the BC Classic. Blame beat Zenyatta. As Jason says, "get over it." The fact that Zenyatta comes from 16 behind in that race is not impressive to me. Why? Because she does that in EVERY race she runs in. That is her style! Am I to believe that she used a different style in that race? Her 2010 BC Classic was a carbon copy of her 2009 BC Classic, instead this time, on dirt, not all of the horses were backing up in the stretch on a fake surface. No. This time, Blame was able to finish. And he had an "easy" trip because that is his running style. Blame has a dimension that allows him to be closer to the pace than Zenyatta, and that gave him first jump coming for home. Horses have different running styles. What a novel idea...And winning 4 out of 5 races at the top level in America is not exactly lucky. Blame was a very good horse and the best horse in America that ran in 2010. Case closed. As for Zenyatta, her 2010 BC Classic was her best race. It was also her only loss. Why was her best race her only loss? Was it that she actually tried top competition on a surface that is not currently sitting in a landfill? I, and the rest of horse racing fans that are not wearing the rose colored glasses will always remember the 2010 BC Classic for the victory by Blame. Blame was a nice horse and deserves to be celebrated for his season in 2010. Please don't tear him down like he was an allowance level colt. After all, he did beat your Zenyatta.

You're right Mike, Zenyatta finished in front of every horse except one. That means she lost. Thanks for playing.

2009 was a very special year.  A 3 year old filly won the Preakness, the Haskel and the Woodward and whipped any filly who dared to race her.  You will never see it again.  She deserved HOY because she did it on the track.  8 for 8 as a 3 year old filly ?  Let me know when another horse matches that record.  I'll wait.

Paula Of course Zenyatta couldn't beat Blame.  That was the best she had to offer.  Whipped over 26 times over a 300 yard stretch.  Blame was hand ridden in.  After the finish line Zenyatta almost came to a dead stop she was so tired while Blame could have gone another furlong.  The 2010 BC exposed Zenyatta for what she was.  A synthetic specialists. Nothing more.  Your right.  She ran her greatest race and still lost.  Too bad.

KY Vet, let me ask you this. Zenyatta had to use every ounce of energy to run down Anabee's Creation in 2009 at Del Mar and win by a nose. Based on your last response, are you saying Anabee's Creation is on par with Zenyatta because they essentially hit the finish line at the same time? You just used that same argument for Zenyatta/Blame, so I see no reason why you can't use that for Anabee's Creation/Zenyatta. Interesting, because I don't think Anabee's Creation is as good as Zenyatta, but if you do, so be it.

And I loved the way you ended your comment. "She was just as good." The way you and everyone else make it sound like on this blog is that Blame overall wasn't very good, and will never be in the Hall of Fame. So she was just as good as this "average" colt. Awesome. Clearly Zenyatta is the greatest horse of all time. LoL.

Hopefully all of you who are stuck in the past and only want to slam one particular horse came back to the present to watch Frankel give another flawless performance.  But you all arfe still probably thinking of more ways to cut Zenyatta down.  Too bad.

Will, you are so right about Blind Luck. My regard for her owners and trainer has totally tanked. She deserves better than this. For those of you who say that other great horses are on the auction block, I get it. But this horse was special. When she stopped winning and had problems, they unloaded her instead of sending her to Kentucky for retirement.

Jimmy and Sylvester, I will try one more time. First, see Ky Vet's post. Second, Blame is a WONDERFUL horse and yes he hung on to win. I am not tearing him down. He deserved his win. FYI, I would love to see her bred to him. But yes, he got lucky in a win against Zenyatta. His finish was too close in the BCC to not come to that conclusion. She was a 19 straight  winner, in mostly Grade I's, including against males, and she lost by half a head. The conclusion is logical and inevitable that he got lucky. If he had beaten her by lengths we could have the conversation about how she really lost that race badly and he is the better horse. Didn't happen. For example, Onion was not a better horse than Secretariat. She is much the better horse. Faster closing speed, wider stride, 19 wins and against males. No, she was not done at the end of the race. I don't know what you were watching. But here's the point Jimmy/Sylvester, her running style puts her at a disadvantage to begin with. It doesn't make it easier for her, it makes it harder. So to see her come from 16 back, AGAINST MALES, something she has never done before, on a not so familiar track surface, shows how astoundingly good that race was for her or ANY horse. How many horses do you think could do that? Very, very few if any. QR came to almost a dead stop and Mike had to go around him. That cost her valuable time. In fact, just about the amount of time she lost by. Blame was on automatic pilot and on his favorite track. He SHOULD have won by alot more if he was the better horse. Didn't happen. He had a head start for all intents and purposes and she closed on him like a freight train. The vast majority of sportswriters and veteran horse people saw her race as one for the ages. There are reasons for that and I have stated some of them here. You, Sylvester, Jason and Draynay are angry that she won HOTY, didn't come east more often, and don't like her connections (don't get that) so you want to tear her down. I don't look at her with "rose colored glasses" Jimmy, I see her for what she is: the greatest female horse in North America of all time. You, Sylvester et al. look at her through jaundiced eyes and cynical minds. You just refuse to see what is there. Is she Secretariat, Seattle Slew, Citation, or Dr. Fager? No. But she is one of the greatest horses who has ever raced in this country, hands down. As for the male horses "backing up" in the 2009 that isn't accurate. She was just closer to the field in that race Jimmy. It's all about perspective and rational thnking. Do you seriously think ALL of those horses were "backed up" in the 2009 BCC? I think not. As for synthetics being a landfill, LOL, have you ever seen a landfill? I have. Synthetics are definitely not a landfill. But very funny. As for wins on synthetics not being legitimate, that is ridiculous. So are wins on dirt more legitimate than wins on grass? Of course not. A win is a win is a win. But just for the record, she won on dirt too. But you both know that. O.k. I think I am done. Now I am off to use my "Easy Bake Oven" to cook Sylvester's goose.

ZENYATTA , beat mostly weak horses all year because they were preps.She only went as fast as she had to...She was smart.rachel ran off...this is why zen lasted so long...zenyatta ran against no pace...mike would ask her, then how quick would she get to them? in about a furlong! then she picked her ears and play...she only tried in the cup....because she had to...you people still dont get it....zenyatta had way more than she ever showed....Why not believe mike smith? he said it over and over....a horse picks their ears whe the are looking at something......they arent trying.....learn the horse....

Paula Higgins: It was one and you're out of my barn for Blind Luck. No more big purses from you and no more feed bills for me and asap. These weren't the Mosses who owned her. It was clearly strictly business - no emotional ties to the game little filly from this crew and thus no qualms about putting her on the public auction bloc. Truly a shameful end for such an elite race horse.

I guess no case can be made for To Honor and Server whom I expect to romp the Classic. This colt’s last two races suggest he is back on track to vindicate his exceptional pedigree. I know I will be yet again labeled pedigree crazy. Close examination of THS pedigree suggests he was bred specifically for the BC Classic. Below are the cold facts regarding his pedigree:

Sire/Grandsire: Bernardini/ A P Indy - Runner-up/Winner (BCC)

Dame Sire: Deputy Minister - Sire and broodmare sire of winners (BCC/BCJF)(Awesome Again/Curlin/ Open Mind)

Second dam sire: Miswaki - Sire of winners (Black Tie Affair)

Third dam sire: Nijinsky - Sire of winner (Ferdinand)

This colt’s first three dam sires have sired winners of the great race. His sire and grandsire were runner up and winner of the great race. His pedigree clearly reflects great possibilities for success in the BCC.

Has this exceptional BCC pedigree manifested itself in performance? He recorded a time of 1:50.03 in the 9F Remsen that represented the second of his two Gll victories as a 2YO. Assuming he trained on from two to three he was expected to get faster as he got stronger. Well that was not immediately apparent in his first two starts as a 3YO. He was defeated in both the Fountain Of Youth and FL Derby in 1:50.23 and 1:50.07 respectively. On the evidence of those races he did not even reproduce his Remsen time in defeat. The dream of a spectacular 3YO season for this colt suddenly became a nightmare.  

After a brief respite due injury his return race turned out to be the worst of his career. Was worst possible for a $575K investment?  The ship was righted in his next two starts. He averaged 1:47.82 for two impressive victories at 9F. His impressive times were deemed to be as a result of fast tracks. Was he expected to be stronger and faster as a 3YO? Absolutely!   His two plus seconds improvement over his Remsen time is not farfetched for a horse with THS pedigree.  I am of the opinion that his two impressive victories at 9F will be pale in comparison to his expected victory in the BCC. He is bred for stamina and is showing exceptional speed. The BCC distance of 10F is what he wants to vindicate the aforementioned exceptional BCC pedigree.

Jimmy, regarding your response to Ky Vet. Zenyatta was an example of a horse who never won by much. She only did what she had to do to win. She was a very smart girl. Her running style was why she only won by small margins. She was always coming from behind. Do you have any idea (I know you do) how hard it is to win 19 races always coming from the back of the pack? That's why she had a few really close wins. She essentially had only one running style, unlike Secretariat who could do it all-from way behind or on the lead. Sometimes she barely made it, but made it she did, 19 times. Here is the bottom line: you had a 6 year old female (not at her peak by the way-2009 was her better year) who lost by half a head to a 3 year old male who was peaking, AFTER coming from 16 back on a surface she wasn't familiar with, under lights for the first time, after winning 19 straight. She was the best horse there that day. Blame, a very, very good horse, got lucky, and to his credit, hung in there. But when all is said and done, given the facts, she ran the best race that day and was the best horse there. Sometimes the way the race is run trumps who won the race. That was what happened here. Ergo HOTY for Zenyatta.

Why was ZENYATTA better than she ever showed? 1) she would play, pull up when she got to leaders.2) Never had to run fast,competition was weak.3) never got on a roll.(horses get in better and better shape the faster and faster they go) she ran beyers like 100, 102.101 because thats all she has to do....the rubber band never got "stretched".. then, they asked her to run against the best in the cup....and she would have to try...she would run about 5 lengths faster.....that is amazing...thats hard to do....they never let her get on a roll and really get to the bottom though....this is good and bad....the good? this is why she lasted so long...she never ran full out..only in the cups.....the bad was she never was stretched...always when she got sharp, she then was turned out....great managment to keep horse sound, bad for showing how good she really is.........the thing about the normal horserace fan...like most of you in here, is that you dont know the horse, sometimes the best horse doesnt win......sometimes when you lose , you still win.......learn what a great horse looks like!

 Paula Higgins, I totally agree.  The best horse does not always win.  Was Prized better than Sunday Silence?  Was Paddy O'Prado better than Lookin' At Lucky (that's one that totally threw me..."He finished in front of him in the Derby...He's better)?  To play the devil's advocate I do get that Blame's superior tactical speed did allow him to have a cleaner trip. Is he the better horse?  Maybe but I don't believe so off just that one race.  I also think that a horse should at least campaign half the year or more to be horse of the year.  Blame campaigned 5 1/2 months unless I'm mistaken.

JIMMY

More of your regular bs, you know Zenyatta's twenty back in her last race wasn't by design.

Easy for you to discount the HOF when you know I'm correct. Like I stated he's not going and that's it! Who do you think was credited to increasing the ratings by nearly triple last year, Blame? lmao

HELP! HELP! THEY WON'T STOP! [wimper, runs for the exits]

One more comment Jummy about the field being "back" in the 2009 BCC. Not really. Zenyatta won that race at 2:00.62. Gio Ponti was right behind her. The third horse, Twice Over, was only 1 1/4 lengths back. In the 2010 BCC Blame won at 2:02.28, with Zenyatta at about the same, but Fly Down in third was 3 1/2 lengths back. Looks to me like they were more "back" in the 2010 race.

`People shouldn't be knocking those fillies Zenyatta beat. They may not have been the best bunch but deserve some respect since unlike the 2009 Horse of the Year they weren't afraid to run against her.

And why are you all still talking about her anyway? Are the horses in this year's Classic so boring that you have nothing to say about them? What happened to all the love and hate you all used to have for Uncle Mo? He's not worthy of being praised and bashed any more? Come on. Someone in this year's Classic has to be!

Paula Higgins,

You said it perfectly.  Unfortunately, your spot on comments will fall on the deaf ears and blind eyes of those who simply refuse to acknowledge what the rest of us witnessed.  But, in truth, it remains their loss.

talk about zenyatta, who has Havre De Grace beat this year? Switch and Satans Quick Chick the same ones zenyatta beat.Absinthe Minded? Tiz Miz Sue? Have they won any grade 1's? She beat Blind Luck once in a grade 3 race after BL had already been beaten in both her previous starts (grade 2's). And those grade 1 champs Ice Box and Giant Oak? Please!! Not to mention Life At Ten lol. The best she's beaten is Royal Delta who's only won 1 grade 1 and ran terrible in the beldame. Zenyatta ran in all grade 1's last year and never got beat by a filly or low quality male.

oh, i forgot one. Sweet N Sour Nina. i take that back, havre De Grace did beat some good ones.

Frankel is truly a fantastic horse.

Also nice race by Together on 7 days rest.

Thanks oso7. We agree. Pedigree Ann I defend Zenyatta because someone has to. She can't speak for herself. 2:24 you are so right. Frankel is scary good. A total freak. I am so happy they named him after Bobby Frankel. A very fitting tribute to a great trainer.

Will you are right. Blind Luck was just about business to them. You are also right they are NOT Ann and Jerry Moss. They are the gold standard of how to treat a race horse. I hope she goes to someone IN Kentucky who will appreciate her and treat her well.

Thank you Smoking Baby!

Ky Vet GREAT post. Your points are excellent.

DRAYNAY-

All I know is all you can talk about is Zenyatta and last years BC Classic... All I know is YOU LOST big time in that race and that is something that we all love on these forums. When you run your mouth and you lose. Seems to happen often doesn't it!! UNCLE MO DOESN'T RUN FIRST OR SECOND IN THIS YEARS CLASSIC. Good luck at the windows everyone!

DRAYNAY-

Wonder how much he dropped on Winter Memories today! LOL just got back from a wonderful day at Keeneland and a great dinner. Hoping the weather can somehow stay perfect for BC weekend like it was today!!

Any top horse could dust Zenyatta? She took one helluva lot of dinero, in two Classics.... on two different tracks....name any female horse, I mean ever, who would be favored in the Classic over Blame, Lookin At Lucky, Quality Road, Summer Bird, Twice Over, Gio Ponti--she was heavily favored over those guys, name the filly in history besides Zenyatta who is taking that kind of action--not small change, the oddslayers know it, thats why Alabama is #1, they would be favored over anybody--Zenyatta, after her big loss, in which she was laid bare and humiliated for all to see--NOT!---She would be favored right back, and all the bittermen would be losing, they can chew on the one time they got lucky--No one can change the fact that Zenyatta was greatness....

IF HDG shows up and wins the Classic then I'll think she deserves HOTY.  Any filly/mare that is good enough to show up for the BCC and wins it has to be declared better than the others.  The BCC is for champions to run against champions,  they don't run claimers and allowance type horses in this race.   Zenyatta proved herself twice by showing up and winning the classic and the second time being the better horse in the whole field and only coming up short by a couple inches.   SHE SHOWED UP,  SHE DIDN'T DUCK OR BACK DOWN.  that makes a world of difference in the history books,  If a filly/mare is that good then they don't have to run against the weak males only,  they can save themselves to show us what they really can do and run against the big boys that show up to run in the BCC,  thats what its for.

FURLONGS

Correct. He stated prior to the race, "take QR to the bank" then after that didn't happen he gets on Blame's back (after the race) painting the illusion he had him from jump street. He knows what he said.

KY VET~

Haha! Take me out to the ballgame! LOL! Are you from the Northwest?

Jason,

I'm going to the BC....can't wait!!!! Meeting a bunch of friends there as well (some from across the Atlantic)...a week of horse heaven! We are a military family here and just began yet another deployment (*sigh*) so I can't wait to have a diversion! Hope to see you there! Have fun!

People... DRAYNAY should get credit for at least knowing a good horse when he sees one....uncle mo is tremendous. quality road was no worse than blame.....what draynay doesnt understand, is that racing has a negative effect on horses....quality road was asked to be sharp from jan..to nov......almost impossible to do! qr was tired by the fall...his best couldve won the cup though...dialed in was very good but had problems...some last 15 races...some last 2 or 3...this is the game......UNCLE MO is the best horse....but i know the game, you dont want a horse coming into this race off a 118 beyer......i hope mo wins, but as a professional, ill stay out! On the other hand, the filly and flat out are running business as usual races, not too good....they are coming into race perfect......should be quite a show!!.......dont worry dray, youll learn...everybody was green at one time!

Coldfacts,

I quote you: " ...To Honor and Server whom I expect to romp the Classic."

THAS is a very good colt that is rapidly improving at the time of year to match his pedigree as I've intimated before in many discussion on the AP Indy line horses.  He does have a good shot to win the BCC but certainly not in a romp.  Get real my friend. He'd have to win by in excess of three lengths and comfortable to be a romp.  Only two horses in the field are capable of that this year: Tizway and Uncle Mo (my exacta).  Both are doing very well right now therefore To Honour and Serve will have to produce further improvement on his career best and perhaps show that he's superior to his sire to succeed in the manner that you've forcasted. We'll see who gets it right.

My possibles:

Uncle Mo: Don't think it'll

happen, even if he wins the Classic. A resume consisting of an ungraded stakes win, and a G2 win, both at a mile, in addition to the Classic doesn't cut it, IMO anyway. If he ran in the Cigar Mile, well he'll have a better shot, but there would be no need save him for next year! I don't think he'll win the Classic, but even if he does, HOY is a longshot.

Tizway: Two nice G1 wins, the Met and Whitney. With the Classic, it'll be three nice G1 wins against very nice fields. He needs the Classic if he's to take HOY, its possible but he's not my top pick for HOY either. Right now he's in second place, both in the running for the Classic and HOY, IMO.

Flat Out: He's hamstrung right now, yes he has a good win in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, and Suburban to slightly lesser extent, but his resume suffers from the fact he's ran second behind the two leading HOY contenders, Tizway in the Whitney, and Havre de Grace in the Woodward. The question I asked myself, was would he have won the Gold Cup had either been in there, personally I don't think he would have. If he can come back and beat them two and everyone else in the BC, he may stand a chance, but he's a long shot for the award as of now, and a mild long shot to win the Classic too.

Game on Dude: Tied with Tizway for second. Beat good fields in the Goodwood and Big 'Cap, which he won fair and aquare. Charles Town was a good run, considering the track and all, and the Holly Gold Cup was a heartbreaking loss to First Dude, who would be in the conversation had he not had to be retired. A Classic win will be 3 solid G1 wins, and possibly make him front runner for HOY. It's there for the taking for him, but he has to fulfill his own destiny.

Stay Thirsty: I also don't think he'll be hitting the board, every time he ships out of NY to run he throws in a huge clunker, I think the BC will be no different. However if he were to pull a rabbit out of his hat, that in addition to the Travers, Jim Dandy, and Gotham, gives him a solid resume. Personally don't fell that'll be enough, but hey they gave the HOY to Point Given in 2001 for beating up on 3yos and never facing older horses, so you never know.

Acclamation: Dark horse, he's done a lot this year, unfortunately I think he will be overshadowed, unless a nobody upsets everyone in the BC.

Goldikova: Shouldn't even be in the talk for the HOY award. If she wins a 4th BC Mile it'll be a staggering accomplishment, but not HOY worthy, if you want to consider her record in France, it really doesn't help her chances. Personally I think Acclamation, Cape Blanco, and Blind Luck would rank in front of her right now.

Blind Luck: Did great things in that 3 race streak, but her flop in the Lady's Secret, and no BC showing, ultimately will hamper any chance she had.

Havre De Grace: IMO, the one to beat, she's in the driver's seat for HOY, and for the Classic. Has had an incredible year, a nose away from a perfect season. Three great G1 wins, Apple Blossom, the rout in the Beldame, and vs. males in the Woodward. The G3s in the Obeah and Azeri were nice wins, but compared to her G1 wins somewhat inconsequential, save for beating Blind Luck in the Azeri. Her Beldame was my favorite race of Super Saturday, she looked like a million bucks. IMO, they boys have to beat her to cash, both in the Classic and to take HOY.

Just my two cents on the possible contenders.

Mo worked another bullet today ...easy 58 and change...If they can stretch him out a bit (still a big ?) but there will be  no catching him on the track he loves. Perhaps super horse will show up? A lot has to go right but man this is going to be good...you gotta admit it. And it sounds like HDG is chilling out, her last easy race a brilliant move to set her up for a big run. Flat Out's quarters are holding up, and Tizway is on track as he can be for missing his last start. Who'd have thought this year's race was going to be even more interesting to watch? So over the last 2 years people...get your head in the game!!!

What song is it you want to hear bloggers?  TedBob sends this with love... www.youtube.com/watch

Uncle Mo fires a bullet and sends a message, you're all running for second.  Mo wins the Classic and HOY.

Ted/Bob loved the song. But we are more like the Hatfields and the McCoys on this blog where Zenyatta is concerned :). On another note, Uncle Mo is doing so well. Just made my day to see that he had a brilliant work. All he needs to do is get the distance and a decent trip. Agree Golden Broom, this is going to be an incredible BCC. rorscharch1992 ITA with everything you said. It probably comes down to Tizway and HDG for HOTY unless Mo wins the Classic and one more race after that. If HDG comes in a very close second, she still might win HOTY regardless of who wins the Classic in a repeat of lst years HOTY contest.

RANAGULZION,

I expect THS to complete the BCC distance in 2:00 and change. I am of the opinion that no other US based horse can run 10F that fast. Of the six BCC contested at CD, this mark was only achieved once and that was the 2:00.75 recorded by Tiznow in the 2000 renewal. THS has a lot in his favor. I have already provided the cold facts regarding BCC pedigree. He will probably be the only horse in the field whose trainer has previously won the great race. Based on this colt pedigree he should not be showing 46, 1:10 speed. There is no pace that can be set in the BCC that will not see him if the top three heading into the final turn. He is now relaxing for his rider and that make him dangerous as he has 10F stamina to complement his speed. My only concern is whether he will like or dislike the CD strip.

“ Tizway and Uncle Mo (my exacta)”

Below is the breakdown of the age the past winners of the BCC:

3YOs   (9)

4YOs   (11)

5YOs    (7)

A Tizway victory will represent the first for a horse older than five. Does this bit of cold facts mean Tizway cannot win? Absolutely not!  It just mean it will take and exceptional 6YO to will the great race. He is not exceptional and he is not a 10F horse. In addition he will not beat the 3YOs. Uncle Mo will not be able to explode away from THS as the pace will be honest. He is not a genuine 10F horse and his two races in 6-7 months represent trouble for a stamina suspect participant. After 9F he will be backing up big time just as QR did. Try another exacta as the above carries has too much risk.  

Wow...a great horse worked fast, and a trainer said the horse is thriving.......never seen/heard that before...........

Years ago in a land far far away........COLDCUTS" derby pick....GIANT OAK- CONSISTANT ALW HORSE= 100 beyers....OR the next yr. the dubai speed horse......opps....Genius!!!!!

Bob/Ted: more like

"you say Zenyatta, i say Rachel Alexandra;

You say Santa Anita; I say Saratoga;

West Coast; East Coast;

Best Horse; Least Horse;

Let's call the whole thing off,"

(I can see Zenyatta dancing with Fred but Rachel would probably look better in Ginger's ball gowns)

Billy- how did you do?  Thank God I had Sarah Lynx.  Great ride by Soumillon.

that was a great ride by Soumillion. Did not do well. Had Joshua Tree 2nd. Miss Keller, I bet her enough this year and lost, so I stopped betting her, and she wins... 18 days until BC11 NICE WORK Footlick

but I don't think the sentiment for Havre de Grace runs quite as deep as it did for Zenyatta. In other words, hopefully people would actually vote with their heads this year instead of their hearts.

Using the words you so like to repeat Jason, Get over it she won HOY.

8 for 8 as a 3 year old filly ?  Let me know when another horse matches that record.  I'll wait.

Draynay 15 Oct 2011 4:29 AM

Let me know when a 3 yr old filly faces the same weak caliber of horses in those same races. She beat nothing.

I like that proposal that if Mo wins the BCC, which I would love to see him do, that he should then run in the Cigar Mile to  add to his grade 1 wins.  Okay, that's the fantasy. The reality is that Mo can easily take top 3 yo male honors this year, and hopefully come back next year for his Horse Of The Year campaign.

This one if for you Draynay.

www.youtube.com/watch

Ted from LA and I are going to both days of Breeders' Cup.

Coldfacts you are in love with THS can I ask why you love him and not Ruler on Ice. THS was giving 10 pounds to ROI 10!!!! I can run like the wind if you put 10 pounds on my back then I would lose to anyone. What Jockey won the classic last year um yes garret gomez who will be on ROI. Also ROI is built for 12 furlongs so 10 should be a breeze for him. Haskins sees the light and think ROI will run huge on Nov. 5th and shock the world at huge odds!

Slyder: Rachel was the first filly to win the Preakness in 85 years and first filly to win the Woodward. The mare never defeated a grade I winner in 2010.

Who beat nothing?

Can I buy your souvenir ticket from you? I'll give you a bag of rocks...

Good luck with that It Aint Easy.

Jason, why keep saying ZENYATTA didnt beat any grade1 winners in 2010 ?  Seems to me, she beat horses in the classic huh? qr?looknatlucky? so.....blame beat many better than them? PEOPLE!!!! JASON is correct..blame in his preps ran against better than zenyatta.....duh! newsfash.....BLAME was a far better COLT than zenyatta in the preps.........But the thing is,,,,zen is a MARE! Workouts! that is what her 5 grade wins were....She was way back and looked hopelessly beaten in 3 of those, in slow paces.....caught horses that WERE NOT QUITTING!! HOW? she was way better......still it was amazing.....she had more, but only asked her to run at the end.....then hit the wire together in cup..almost caught a horse that had alot left...HE is a BOY horse! SHE is a GIRL horse! Thats why she wins hoy....if she was a boy....she wouldnt....BOYS run about 5 lengths faster!!!!! PAR at that DISTANCE...which means blame was about normal...but the mare was about 5 lengths better than most years! this is what you are missing.....Really? you cant understand this? almost winning 2nd breeders cup classic, after already winning ladies classic? you dont get it? You people must be lying....SHES A MARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KY Vet: You like to portray yourself as someone who knows horse racing. If you did, you would know that a horse that LOSES a race, did not actually DEFEAT any grade I winners. You have to WIN the race to say you DEFEATED a certain class of horses.

Understand now? It's horse racing 101.

Also... RACHEL LOVERS!!! She was a great filly! BUT!!!!!!!! Never made the big show! Why is this important? Because she was basically a close to the pace horse.....Heres a tip...horses that have speed, run better against weaker comp. run great....But when the best of the best get together, there is more speed horses to battle with...a horse runs different in 5th than the usual 2nd early....Handicapping 101...Sorry COLDCUTS.....check out your THAS races....you dont say anything about the lack of pace.....Not surprising.......Zenyatta gets slammed? She faced everything...slow pace dirt diff synthetics...nobody ever says anything about the 3 diff synthetics....no credit to zenyatta closing on the one that nobody closes on.....huh? why? you people dont know about how different they are....thats why i do this for a living.....you say poly....like its plastic or rubber...what is dirt?  many many diff things..you talk about it like it is 1 thing...they are more diff than anything...some sandy, some clay. completely diff surfaces...nobody proved more on more diff tracks then zen....but blah blah....she only ran on poly...over and over.....you people should be embarrassed!

OH..... jason thank you..only winning counts........you have just cleared the debate up!!!! ITS OVER PEOPLE!!!!!ZENYATTA WON(deafeated) blame FOR HORSE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!! THATS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!

JASON

Did Zenyatta lose to LAT, QR,Haynesfield,ETC?

AND...... That's correct about RA what she did in the Preakness,etc.

It's also a fact by the next yr she was cooked. Am I wrong Jason?

Didn't pick Miss Keller on PH, but at the last minute I put a small win bet on her because, as you, I have backed her so many times.  So I lucked out there too.  My pick in the EP Taylor finished 4th and wasn't beaten that much.  She ran well.  Bombed out on the Del Mar Derby.  Had Dancing Rain in Europe.  Together here.  Didn't bet Frankel's race as to me it was a no contest.  And had Snow Fairy in the Champions.  But again, Soumillon kept her pinned on the rail until he was ready to move with Cirrus.  She closed but made her move to late because of lack of room.  On to the BC!

The "Wayward Stakes!"  I fogot It's a bird also beat Dry Martini!

Did Da'Tara ever win again after his 31-1 Belmont fluke?

Come on! Cool Coal Man, Bullsbay and Macho Again? Please.  The only reason RA was entered was because of the field.  Her connections obviously saw an easy win.  

Probably the best horse she faced was Pioneer of the Nile and he was hurt in the Preakness and never raced again.

People...Jason isnt stupid....nor am i....Rachel was great filly...for a few months....you people can slam her all you want. I know a great horse when i see one.....she just never ran in the championship.....(atlanta braves)...Jason just doesnt understand how different zenyatta was......She didnt try...i dont know why people cant get this....she coasted...ears up! you cant judge her on time.....MIKE SMITH isnt an idiot! "she has extra gears we havent even seen yet" he never got to the bottom.  

A bunch of Zen fan wannabees still trying to find fault with the great mare.

Jason,  Get over it!  she won the 2010 Horse Of The Year,  and she deserved it. She was the best runner in all her races and especially those doggone BCC's.     Arrrh!!!

She showed up and took on the best the Classic could run against her.   She done excellent against the last male in the race (in his own backyard) and giving them all multiple lengths start.   Like I said,   of all the females of 2009 and 2010, Zenyatta SHOWED UP and didn't BACK DOWN, and showed them all how to play with the big boys of horse racing.   This year,  HDG is going to follow suit and try to do what Zenyatta did for two years.  But , Zneyatta was 5 and 6 yrs. old doing it.    

SHE SHOWED UP and WITHOUT EXUSES FOR THE BCC RACES.  

It is just a matter of semantics.  You need to say "finished ahead of" and there can be no argument.  

I will be at BC with Bob and Ted. Those 2 know how to do it.

My buddy that own's his own screen printing business made a lot of money last week. He said he had a request to make 1000 t-shirts that read, "SHE LOST, GET OVER IT!" They will be ready next week,and I think they are planning on selling them on the backside at CD

Another poor analogy Ky Vet. You must have missed the 1995 World Series.

Billy: I'll take 50 T-shirts please.

Let's all start a "Rapid Redux for Hore of the Year campaign!!"

Jason....you didnt get it....the fact the mariners won 116 obviously they were very good, but the important thing is the world series.....like the breeders cup...which rachel didnt make it to......i loved rachel but she never won the big one....zenyatta proved she was just as good if not better than the best male...she won hoy being a mare. whats so hard to understand?

Ky Vet: What on earth are you talking about? You first wrote about Atlanta Braves, who won the 1995 World Series. Now you're talking about the 2001 Mariners? Nobody knows what you are saying. Sounds like you need to brush up on your sports pal.

Let me put it all in perspective for you: She lost. Set over it.

One Thousand “She Lost Get Over” it t-shirts would be much more than would be needed for the demand.  I’m sure there would be many still in stock years from now if someone wanted to order one.

On the other hand I could print about three million Zenyatta HOY, ISN’T SHE JUST THE GREATEST and probably be sold out by the end of the week.

That's what it says on the front of your T-shirt Laz. On the back it says:

..."California Polytrack mare you've even seen."

KY VET,

I like your posts but you speak condescendingly of the knowledge of most others on here and try to ridicule my good friend Coldfacts who is a well reputed handicapper (especially of long shots). You have set yourself up for a lot of scrutiny and in-coming fire when the Breeder's Cup program comes around.  I hope that you'll post your picks with the same bravado with which you've been spouting your ideas. The proof of the pudding is in the eating so I look forward to seeing your picks.  As one who boasts of making a killing off this game, you should include a few that are not 'chalky types'.  Good luck.

Jason,

Don't you think that KY VET should take up the challenge?  Otherwise we'll have to report him to Dr. Drunkinbum, Ted from LA and Bob from Boston.  I'm sure that Mike Relva would also enjoy a shot at the 'VET' if he proves to be no more than a 'QUACK' (LOL).

Ranag: I have no idea what Ky Vet is talking about 90% of the time anyway, so I say go for it.

Jason when is the last time you have pegged a race? Sidneys Candy, winter memories, Flashpoint in the preakness...you have been brutal this  year!

I have to laugh every week I tune into your show and every week you pick horses that cant even hit the board! You had a good run last year though I will give you that but you have to admit your awful this year.

slyder, Householder and anyone else who needs to denigrate Rachel Alexandra's 3yo year or call her overrated:

     Steve Haskin's BH article for the 2009 Woodward;  RA..."became the first filly to win the Woodward. This was the equivalent of a 23-year-old girl beating 30-something males.  No 3-year-old filly had ever defeated older males in a two-turn, grade I dirt race.  The last to win a major two-turn dirt stakes over her elders was Misty Morn in the 1955 Gallant Fox Handicap. ... Jackson took pride in having orchestrated a good portion of Rachel's perfect season, in which she became the first filly to beat males three times in grade I races on dirt in a single year."

8 for 8 in 2009 including:

K. Oaks G1 by 20 1/4 with 108B, largest winning margin in history.

Preakness G1 by 1 with 108B, defeating KD winner Mine that Bird.

Mother Goose G1 by 19 1/4 with 111B, biggest margin and fastest time in the history of the race.

Haskell G1 by 6 with 116B, second biggest margin and second fastest time in history defeating Belmont Stakes winner Summer Bird.

Woodward G1 by hd. with a 109B.  As John Nerud said after the Woodward;  "I think she's the best I've ever seen, I don't compare her to anyone.  I'm not afraid to say she's better than Ruffian, because she is. They sent two speed horses after her and made her go in :22 4/5; then they came after her one at a time and she put them all away.  Those were tough older horses and they tried everything they could to get her beat and they couldn't."

Those "tough older horses" included three Grade I winners, two Grade II winners and one Grade III winner.  RA owned the 3yo fillies, the Triple Crown males and the older males on dirt.  I was blessed to be able to witness her Preakness win from the back row of the old grandstand at about the 3/16th pole.  I can still feel the ringing in my ears from the crowd noise under that metal roofed grandstand as she came down the stretch and held of Mine that Bird.

Granted, she did not go on to the BC to meet Zenyatta in Zenyatta's backyard.  RA did not have to, she had done enough, maybe too much, as she was not the same in 2010. As spectacular as Zenyatta's win in the BC Classic was in 2009,her overall record for 2009 could not compare to RA's record and RA was voted HOTY by a 130-99 vote and I agree with that vote.  Call her competition weak, call her overrated, call her Woodward the "Wayward" stakes if that makes you feel better(go back and watch it,the Woodward, not the Wayward and see how "easy" it was for her) but your name-calling does not change what she accomplished in 2009.  I agree with Draynay, let me know when another 3 yo filly has that kind of record.

Jason,

The Blood-Horse Stallion Register uses the abbreviation: dftg.=defeating, then lists those defeated when stating a stallion's race record in races Won, 2nd. and 3rd.  This may be helpful information for breeders but I agree with you, when it comes to racing, the winner is the ONLY one who defeats them all.

I remember the 1995 World Series because my Cleveland Indians were defeated by those Braves.  

It Aint Easy: I could go 0-for-the year and I would still be in the black against you!! Thanks for your donation to the Jaxson Shandler College Fund.

Had Never Retreat two weeks ago on the show. You must not have watched.

thanks Trackjack. some people would not know a once in a lifetime horse if it fell on them. There will never be another 3yo filly that does that. Plus, the only argument that any of these people have is that R/A did not run in the BC. That's IT! She did more in one year than Z did in 3.

Billy,

"She did more in one year than Z did in 3" Really?..

Now repeat that often and click your heels 3-times..

jason,

first filly in 85 yrs to win a preakness. how many tried, 3 or 4?

kinda blows the 85 yrs when 95% of the time no fillies were entered. if one or more filly had been entered all those 85 years then the win would mean more. you can make numbers say most anything you want but in this case 1 in 85 means not much of anything when most times none ran.  preakness is an afterthought to the Derby which is many times harder to win anyway. winning a woodward against weak males isn't a big deal either. if they has the kahonas to run her in the classic and she beat older males or lost to just one of them while trashing the rest on the winners favorite track by a half a head now that would have been something to crow about. i'll let you keep your rocks, you seem to need something to throw at the zenyatta window every time her name comes up.  

Carlos, she beat males 3x in 1 year, Zenyatta did it once in 3 years, so to me, she did more. The Haskell and Preakness and Woodward have been around for a LONG time, BC, 25 years. How did they vote for HOY 26 years ago??? Moving on

Billy's Empire

Someone who believes they are truly blessed with the gift and you copy my comment about "if a once in a lifetime horse fell on them". lmao

I must have missed that week since I stopped taking your advice. Hopefully you can get back on track for the breeders cup since we all know you nailed the classic. Jason not feeling ROI this year huh. Come on buddy he can at least get some place/show money! Watch the PA derby again and watch his stretch run and tell me that wasnt impressive.

Billy, to each his own.For the last 25 yr's all the top routing horses have aimed for the BC Classic,the Woodward is a mere 'prep' nowadays.There is a reason(s)RA never showed-up for the main event.

What's in a name?    

Well,  the name Zenyatta brought in the FAME because she was so GAME for the sport of horse racing.

Still to this day as we have to say, she still brings the SAME FAME to the GAME and its certainly not a SHAME because it just proves just how great she was for and still is for horse racing.  

jASON ...YOU KNOW MORE THAN 90 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE ON HERE....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOUR VIEWS..I DONT DISSAGREE WITH 90 PERCENT OF WHAT YOU SAY....

KT VET when Mo gets pointed to the dirt mile then who do you like for the classic? I feel like you and draynay will be bummed when your beast wont even be in the classic haha! Rumor has it mo is going to run in the mile where he belongs. Stay Thirsty is built for 1 1/4th and remember his daddy was close in winning this race 5 years ago!

Mo will run in the classic....118 beyer might be a small clue...And i am a professional horseplayer...im not betting the race....mo is best horse but wont bet horse off a 118 beyer..added to that, the filly and flat out are coming into the race perfect....ill PASS!

KY Vet-

Your a professional horseplayer and your stating that you can't bet a horse that will be low odds off his 118 beyer. And you list 2 horses that are coming into the race "perfect". And I thought DRAYNAY made no sense on these blogs! WOW your much of a PROFESSIONAL Horseplayer if you ask me with that kind of insight to a race. I mean seems to me this would be the PERFECT place as a Professional to make a stand against Uncle Mo based on what you said and play the race. Unless you get cold feet at the windows unless your betting the blink like your buddy Draynay!!

Furlongs. I know uncle mo is the best horse. Look, he might be great enough to win. But people dont really know how incredible that race was. They just say it was a mile, or he got easy lead...133 4/5? what does it take for people to be impressed? Jackson bend was so sharp, and fired his lungs out. he ran way better beyer than anyone knows....I love mo, hope he wins....but i am a pro for a reason. I know what im doing....Waiting for fastball right down the middle of the plate.

This was hardly the "Forego" Woodward of the past. Holly Bull won the Woodward at 3 a second and a half faster than RA.  

Get over it!  Alysheba ran a faster 1 1/4 than Easy Goer in the Woodward.  

Furlongs great post. I am thinking that KY Vet is draynays younger brother. You keep saying how great 118 beyer was. 133 in a mile is very impressive but mo doesnt have the tools for 1 1/4th mile nor does he have the trainer and foundation to win at that distance. Remember speed kills at a mile stamina and power and DNA makes a champion with that being sad if it Rains then MO to the windows!!!

The Holy BS (Beyer Speed, or whatever you want) Figures are not the be-all-and-end-all of racing. I don't use them and I refuse to consider them as a measure of class.

Uncle Mo has shown that when he gets the front end to himself to set a comfortable pace, he can sprint home in a fast time in a 1-turn mile, twice now. What does this say about his ability to compete in a 2-turn 10f race? Especially one with a full field and a contested pace? Absolutely nothing. Has any horse who has not yet won a race of least 9f ever won the BC Classic? I think not.

Uncle Mo may well stretch to 10f in the right circumstances, but he's not getting them this fall.

a quarter mile takes 24 seconds.....a 118 beyer with a 27 last quarter is still a good beyer. you people are off your rocker! there is hardly any 1 1/4 races...because a horse wins a race at that distance means he loves it? weird! you people say that last year, and he wins drawing out! 1/1/16th...is he rank? does he have fast stride? no! his stride is long for any horse and hes not even big...long and rythmic. that says long distance...he loses this race and you will say its the distance that beat him.................rookiees!

Householder,

Interesting comments on past Woodwards.  Holy Bull, one of my all-time favorites was not a 3 yo. filly.  Alysheba and Easy Goer, great horses from the past, neither of which was a 3 yo. filly.  Did Holy Bull, Alysheba or Easy Goer show up to run against the 3yo. filly in the 2009 Woodward?  

Comparing great horses from different years is part and parcel of racing fans speculation because we all are looking for the best and trying to convince one another that horse A is better than horse B. Trying to compare horses from different years running in the same race is pure speculation. It's fun, it's great fodder for debate and discussion.  It has absolutely NO BEARING on RA's 2009 Woodward or her overall 2009 record as HOTY.

Get over it.  Let me know when another 3 yo. filly has that kind of record.

trackjack.  My point exactly.  There were no Holy Bull's in the Woodward.  

Havre de Grace's HOY to lose as far as I can see! She has been awesome this season!

Trackjack,

The odds of another 3 year old filly doing what Rachel did is slim and none. Not because she is great but because she got lucky.

She came around when the top 3 year old colts were injured and the handicap division was led by Macho Again.

Then of course, the 10 furlong classic was on synth which gave JJ an excuse to duck it and plenty of you swallowed that BS.

KY VET, uncle mo has a rythmic strides? HAHAHAHAHAHA, he has more noise in his stride and he lifts his knees way high. He uses way too much energy with that action and he be lucky to finish last. lol

Chucky! UNCLE MO is great BECAUSE of his stride..he is a small horse but has a humongous stride....FYI,The longer the stride,slower turnover compared to short stride...Count Mos strides from a point in a race!(top of turn or quater pole)..Youll find out why mo is a freak...UNREAL! look at his cup race last year.(one of the fastest beyers ever for 2yr old)...He's not rank, pletcher talks about his long rythmic stride in video. You SIR don't really KNOW what youre talking about!  

I will say it one more time.....You people keep saying This and that about all of these big races, or the girl beat the boys..........PEOPLE!!! Look in the section that explains the beyer system! 100=alw  115 beyer the top horses......THE LAST FEW YEARS, THE OLDER CROP WAS SO WEAK!!!! This is why the fillies beat them.115 par AVERAGE!!!!!!!!Know the reasons people.....

chucky,

If RA was lucky, then according to your logic, Zenyatta was lucky to win the 2009 BC Classic.  She beat those 3 yo. colts and handicap division horses who showed up to run against her.  You could even say she was lucky because the race was in her backyard on synth and the future HOTY, had done enough and did not need to meet her.  How lucky could Zenyatta get?  You could say that, but I won't

Zenyatta was managed well, stayed in CA on synthetics with the purpose of winning the 2009 BC Classic in her back yard.  This great 5 yo. mare was successful and her win in the Classic was spectacular.  

The 3 yo. filly was managed well, took on all comers at 7 different dirt tracks on fast and sloppy conditions, went unbeaten and was voted HOTY.  You call her lucky, I call her great.  Neither the mare or the filly could pick and choose who they ran against.  They both went out and defeated all comers.  The filly's record overall was better than the mare's.  

You are correct that the odds of another filly doing what Rachel did is slim and none, not because she was lucky, but because she was one of the great ones.  I'll agree to disagree.

Who do like in the new BC Juvenile Sprint?

Sorry KY VET, but MO will be SLOW in the last furlong...he is a noisy runner and basically a miler.

Trackjack, you are confused. Zenyatta beat the horses that Rachel beat at a shorter distance. Rachel would have lost if she ran against those horses at 10 furlongs...Next none of the handicap horse overrated Rachel beat in the Grade 2, 9 furlong Woodward ran in the 10 furlong 2009 Classic. There is the difference between Zenyatta and overrated Rachel. You see Rachel is grade 1 material but only up to 9 furlongs.

Now you saying Zen won on her hometrack...hell yes...but Blame barely held off Zenyatta ON HIS HOMETRACK....

Again if the same perfect storm comes around, there could be another LUCKY RACHEL...Rachel is no more than a product of great marketing...but hey the industry needed that publicity...

Let's just not get carried away with the filly for the ages nonsense...she cannot run 10 furlongs...that is why she avoided the classic.

KYVET-

If you really look at beyers that hard that tells me everything I need to know about you and your handicaping! Just call you DRAYNAY JR. and wipe all that chalk off yourself!!! WOW beyers lol talk about a professional, lol...

I can't buy into the idea that Zenyatta's HOY was a heart vote.  All one has to do is watch the BCC to know who was, by far, the best horse in that field...beaten by a short head yes, but still by far the best.  With her record to back her up, her HOY award was a balance between head and heart.  When you KNOW who the best horse is, I am grateful a balanced head/heart vote can make the difference.  Pure raw statistics, when your gut screams the complete opposite, makes it all so very boring...sterile.  If only trainers and jockeys and owners were managed with the raw rules, and the awards were left to the balance of head and heart....how wonderful would that be!!

Any way you look at it Rachel Alexandra had the pivitol 3 year old filly year.  There is NOTHING to contradict that.  She left her guts and heart on the track that year, and she was phenomenol!!  It sickens me to hear her diminished for what no other filly has done before.  You don't have to hate Rachel to love Zenyatta...geez!  They are both part of this expansion that is happening for fillies and mares...they both left a huge and amazing footprint.