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Controlled Enthusiasm

For horse racing fans, Breeders' Cup pre-entries day always has that Christmas morning feel. I like the Kentucky Derby as much as anyone, but as a fan and especially as an avid bettor, having two days of top-quality racing and 15 chances of taking down huge pools, is much more appealing. No matter what the quality of the pre-entries, it's an extraordinarily fun weekend.

On Wednesday, we got our first glance at the 193 horses that will make up the 2011 Breeders' Cup and the handicapping has officially begun.

"Did you see Gio Ponti has first preference in the Classic? What do you think about the new Juvenile Sprint? Who do you like in the Dirt Mile? The Turf came up weak!" Within an hour of the official pre-entries release, these were some of the questions and comments I heard from colleagues and friends. Ahh, Breeders' Cup time.

If we're honest, this has been a very ordinary--some would say disappointing--season, especially for older horses. So not unexpectedly, some of the Breeders' Cup races came up pretty dull. I don't think many would argue that the Turf fits into that category, including the Breeders' Cup who moved it from its regular spot before the Classic to Race 8 on the Saturday card. With all the injuries and no American standout, it's a race that doesn't have much appeal.

Likewise, the Ladies Classic, without Blind Luck and Havre de Grace, lacks a standout older horse and is dominated by 3-year-old fillies. As the anchor on Friday's card, it could be much better.

Earlier in the year the Sprint looked like it was going to be one of the most appealing races, but after the loss of a few top contenders to injury and other stars like Caleb's Posse, Jackson Bend, The Factor, and Trappe Shot presumably heading to the Dirt Mile, it too has lost a lot of its allure. In fact, it has only 12 pre-entries and it looks like a maximum of about eight will go. Breeders' Cup moved it to Race 6 on the card, so it won't even be part of the Pick 6.

If Midday and Sarafina go to the Turf, that would water down the Filly & Mare Turf even more. Overall, Friday's card doesn't do much for me as whole. I don't want to get too negative here, so the spin I'll put on it is this: The 2011 Breeders' Cup is not as loaded in talent as in years past, but that could make things more exciting from a betting perspective. How's that?

I will say that the Classic, which for nine months looked like it was going to be quite average, is going to be a very good race. The shot in the arm came from Havre de Grace taking on the boys and 3-year-old standouts To Honor and Serve and Uncle Mo returning from the sidelines. Having the last two Belmont Stakes winners in there, as well as international star So You Think, makes it even more interesting. And with the Horse of the Year still unsettled, it could produce a champion. I'm glad the Breeders' Cup's signature race is going to have enough star power for a national audience.

Like everyone, I'm also looking forward to the Mile and seeing if Goldikova can pull off a truly remarkable four-peat. She won't have it easy this year. And one race that has grabbed my attention is the Turf Sprint, which has brought together the defending titleholder, the 2009 winner, and a good mix of sprinters from all over the country. West Coast rivals Creative Cause and Drill going up against undefeated Union Rags in the Juvenile should also be exciting. And I already have my semi-longshot Dirt Mile winner picked out.

All in all, it's not the best show they ever put together, but it's still the Breeders' Cup and these next 10 days will be a lot of fun. Tom and I will have the first of three live blogs this Friday, Oct. 28 at noon EDT at bloodhorse.com. I hope you can join in on the discussion, and if not I'll be back early next week with a look at some live longshot plays.

Have fun ‘cappin'!

195 Comments:

My pick to win the Dirt Mile is Caleb's Posse.  One of the best races of the day and one that I feel most confident about at the pre-entry stage.

2:24 26 Oct 2011 2:24 PM

This year's Breeders' Cup? zzzzz. I think I'll re-arrange my sock drawer.

steve from st louis 26 Oct 2011 2:51 PM

Classic:

Flat out

Game on Dude

So You Think

Await The Dawn

chucky 26 Oct 2011 3:20 PM

Steve from St. Louis, I knew Ted from LA, Ted from LA was a friend of mine, and you sir, are no Ted from LA.

Bob from Boston 26 Oct 2011 3:23 PM

Did they have to pay $150,000 to cross enter Gracey in the distaff?

chucky 26 Oct 2011 3:26 PM

Jason: You mentioned that If Midday and Sarafina go to the Turf, that would water down the Filly & Mare Turf even more. This race could be a longshot's away race on Friday!!!  

tcc 26 Oct 2011 4:34 PM

Jason, I'm curious if your Dirt Mile semi-longshot winner is the same as mine, which would be a three year old trained by a man by the first name of "Steve", and sired by Tapit.

Kyle S. 26 Oct 2011 4:51 PM

Kyle: He is a 3yo and trained by a guy named Steve. Different sire though.

Jason Shandler 26 Oct 2011 4:56 PM

I agree Jason, this year's Classic field is deeper than last. SYT, HDG and UM make this a very good field. The Ladies Classic is also shaping up to be a decent race despite ZaZu.  I bet the older fillies will be better than the boys once again next year. I only hope that the main track is fair this year. Last year speed was a liability and it was set up for closers.  They tried their best to ensure a Zenyatta victory and she still couldn't win.

Sylvester 26 Oct 2011 5:36 PM

Another Zenyatta comment. Bye.

Footlick 26 Oct 2011 6:20 PM

Bob, if I give you a third-place favorite, then can I be Ted from L.A.? (Just kidding T.F.L.A.)

steve from st louis 26 Oct 2011 6:21 PM

"Last year speed was a liability and it was set up for closers.  They tried their best to ensure a Zenyatta victory and she still couldn't win."

Yeah, Big Drama from the rail closed like a freight train.  

A true track bias is rare and the ones who can sincerely recognize them are even more rare.

dontelmeshome 26 Oct 2011 6:32 PM

How can they beat The Factor when BB tightens the screws as he has?

steve from st louis 26 Oct 2011 8:49 PM

Tizway a huge loss! If not weak, I'd call this year's Breeders Cup gutted! Am anticipating: Bigtime two year old races, especially the turf fillies, a fast sprint (love Amazombie), great mile (think Goldikova beatable--like Mr Commons), and, you never know, Uncle Mo may run off the charts, he's small, but he reminds you, on paper, of Seattle Slew--he may run a big one....

Matthew W 26 Oct 2011 9:43 PM

Great blog Jason. The Factor, Uncle Mo, Goldikova, Union Rags and Zazu are my picks. Sylvester, hating takes alot of energy. You must be awfully tired.

Paula Higgins 26 Oct 2011 9:47 PM

Trappe Shot to win the Dirt Mile.  Take it the bank.

Ranagulzion 26 Oct 2011 10:23 PM

I think that they would be crazy to run Mo in The Classic. I seriously doubt that he wants anymore than a mile. Let's get one thing perfectly clear: they could have gone around that track three more times and Zenyatta was never getting by Blame!

Arch the phoneman 26 Oct 2011 10:24 PM

I agree about the Factor.  He could be double tough at the mile.

I am not saying Uncle Mo wouldn't have a better than even shot at the Factor in the Mile (small chance he goes here) I am just saying I would love to see it. I think the Factor is going to fire a big one going to the lead and improving his position.  It would be freaking fantastic to see Mo sitting off that blistering pace and then come calling.

The Dirt Mile is where Mo should be. If he were running in the Dirt Mile it would be the most anticipated race in the series, personally.  Without him it is still a very good race in overall competition and a great betting race.

dontelmeshome 27 Oct 2011 12:03 AM

Oops, Zazu is out. Forgot about that.

Paula Higgins 27 Oct 2011 12:11 AM

steve from st louis, if you give me ONE third place finisher show horse lock Breeders' Cup weekend, I will buy you 3 Bloody Marys at Millie's next to the track.  I will wash that horses ash, drink the water, and pay for Dr. Drunkinbum's lovely daughter's (Drunkinlisa's) wedding trackside.  Ted from LA wants to thank you for ending his writer's block.

Bob from Boston 27 Oct 2011 12:57 AM

You hit it right Jason, it's going to be fun to handicap! I think we are on the same horse in the Dirt Mile, I really like his form right now. However, now that The Factor is in (Who I am huge fan of) I am a little worried about his capabilities of catching him. Union Rags should route, however, Creative Cause has some legitimacy that most bettors will overlook. Most of these races are going to be great betting races, that's the benefit to major defections.

josh 27 Oct 2011 2:27 AM

1) I'm in agreement with Jason: though some of the races may be lacking in star power, I'm pretty excited (as usual) for BC weekend. The lack of star power in certain races is likely to keep things interesting, and the BCC should be intriguing.

2) I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but...  I still don't understand the hateful Zenyatta comments. How anyone who truly considers themselves a racing fan can continue to spew such negativity about any of the magnificent creatures that make up this sport is beyond me. The RA haters, the Z haters, any of them. Z and RA both gave this sport a much needed shot in the arm whether you agree with their brilliance or not. Disagreeing with HOTY honors is fine. Debating actual talent is fine and interesting, as is discussing training techniques and race schedules. However, continuing to spit negative and uninformative comments about any of the gutsy equines that make up racing is just plain weird and a little sad.  Why not just sit back and enjoy these incredible athletes and this sport while we can?  (Which may not be much longer if racing's most "loyal" fans can't even appreciate rare gems and publiity vehicles when they come along...)

katethegreat 27 Oct 2011 2:31 AM

I follow the triple crown,the handicap division,and sometimes certain horses that are reliable in the money bets.I dont have any strong opinions for any of the races this year.My best bet is exotics so I will look at the final entries post positions and MOST importantly ODDS to determine if I will bet the race.One horse who I will bet against depending on his odds is UM.I dont think the classic is the best placement of this brilliant racehorse by lets say his connections,although anyone that post regularly on this board knows who made the decision on running in this race.IMO if you think UM should be running in the classic looking at what he has done in his ENTIRE career,I think you are in denial.

NASCAR PRO 27 Oct 2011 3:09 AM

These races are getting watered down because there's too many events. I think the CM Turf should go. Give a shot in the arm to the Turf. Dirt Mile should go if its a one turn race. Takes away from the Sprint. Marathon should not be referenced as a BC race. Change the Ladies Classic back to the Distaff. Consolidate the juvy turf and up the purse so we get some serious euros over here.

The Rock 27 Oct 2011 7:07 AM

Who are they kidding entering Gio Ponti in the Classic? There is no shame running 2nd to Goldi but to just be an also ran in the Classic is no way for him to end his career. I'm thinking Harve De Grace or Mo, possibly one of the others could win it by 2 - 4 lengths.

GoldenBroom 27 Oct 2011 7:43 AM

If you check his record carefully, you will see how much better Amazombie runs on dirt than on the various AWs. Be warned. He is one tough cookie who dusted The Factor in the Ancient Title S.

Pedigree Ann 27 Oct 2011 7:43 AM

Goldikova is free money!

If she gets a good post. I'm bridgejumpin'!

WinnahPickah 27 Oct 2011 10:30 AM

things I would like to point out.

-Gio had 1st preference in the classic, but his trainer said that he will go Mile

-Uncle Mo ran a 118 Beyer a the mile distance, beating handily one of the best milers this year Jackson Bend. He has nothing to prove at a mile. He does have something to prove at 10 panels. I think it is the right choice. If you think you have the best horse, you have to put him in the best race.

-The worst entry, IMO, is Stately Victor in the BC Turf. I know the owners, and I am still scratching my head. plus, he was also entered in the Marathon?

-Secret Circle seems to be a lock to be ITM Bob/TED. He is class and speed in the JUV sprint

-I do agree the dirt mile will be a great race, to watch and bet. So many top class horses. Anything can happen.

-Footlick and I are tired of these Zenyatta comments. Leave it alone. You can't change the past. What happened, HAPPENED! Be happy, jolly, jovial, look forward to the 15 races that are going to be run.

- I like the fact that they changed the race schedule. They are showcasing the Juvenile's and Goldi in primetime. Good move. Much better than going back to Cali next year. Bad move

-If Midday and Sarafina go to the turf, what does that say about our U.S based turf horses??

-Back to the dirt mile, we have 26 comments, and 5 different winners already for the dirt mile; Tapizar, Wilburn, Caleb's Posse, The Factor, and Trappe Shot. makes for great betting race.

Billy's Empire 27 Oct 2011 10:35 AM

wow, in 1 day, the weather went from 54 and 51 on Friday and saturday, to 61 on Friday and 67 and sunny on Saturday for BC. Going to be an awesome weekend

Billy's Empire 27 Oct 2011 11:50 AM

IT'S IDIOTIC TO THINK THIS BC CLASSIC is not the weakest ever

The favorite is a filly with 3 Grade 1 wins

The co-favorite hasn't won a Grade 1 race

all this tells you is these horses (LMFAO) are so bad you got an overrated filly and miler for favorites......

OMG!!!!!!!

chucky 27 Oct 2011 12:06 PM

Jason - Wilburn in the Dirt Mile?  I like it although I think Caleb's Posse takes the race.

My rank of Breeder's Cup races as far as my anticipation for them:

1. Mile - Goldikova, enough said.  Really hope she does it.

2. Dirt Mile - I think this is the strongest field on the program.

3. Classic - HDG.  Mo stretching out.  So You Think.  Flat Out.  Much more intriguing field than I thought mid-year.

4. Juvenile - I always get excited for the Triple Crown watching this race despite the lack of success by winners minus Street Sense.

2:24 27 Oct 2011 12:33 PM

Do not care what anyone sez or writes.....best two race on anytrack any where .....7 Fl. and One Mile.......

Your Only Friend 27 Oct 2011 12:53 PM

The Breeders Cup Championships are getting dangerously close to becoming a farce. How long before they expand to 3 days of racing with allowance events? Does anyone seriously believe there are 193 horses that are worthy of being considered "champion" caliber?

Giddyup 27 Oct 2011 1:18 PM

i am looking for a price in the classic. RULER ON ICE chased  wicked speed in the pa derby and had no chance . with added distance and garret gomez up i am looking  for an upset  

street sense 27 Oct 2011 1:43 PM

Wow a ESPN is mentioned a lot by (Repole)in SH story on this website.Are the owners allowed to receive payments from a network for running their horse in a certain race? Please no counterpoint just a post,how am I supposed to know about arrangements that are made incognito.

NASCAR PRO 27 Oct 2011 2:28 PM

I always rank on how great the Breeders cup races are by the amount of tix I cash..

Johnny 27 Oct 2011 3:08 PM

Billy

Nice posts.  Tell me, that weather forecast, is that actually predicted for Nov. 4-5?

LAZMANNICK 27 Oct 2011 3:30 PM

chucky - last I checked, Uncle Mo has two Grade I wins on his resume.

2:24 27 Oct 2011 3:31 PM

I think with the trends in American breeding, the Dirt Mile will be the most-competitive, talent filled race for years to come at the BC.  Kind of sad.

2:24 27 Oct 2011 3:33 PM

Laz, Thanks and yes, look at accuweather.com. Looks like both days call for a few showers at night, but none during the day, but again, these things change overnight. I also looked at weather.com, and they are calling for showers, but I am an optimist! NO RAIN. Even if it rains, I am under cover in my box! And you know they are not coming off of the turf in the BC

Billy's Empire 27 Oct 2011 4:33 PM

2:24

I am talking about this year...which is more relevant than his 2 year old season.

Think about it for a sec....UM is a favorite based on what?....no Grade 1 this year and never ran past 9 furlongs this year and when he did he clunk...oh yeah he was ill...

the other favorite is a filly who got beat twice at 10 furlongs by a horse who is not even in the classic....

OMG...

the hype and marketing sure sucked in a lot of you guys...

chucky 27 Oct 2011 5:07 PM

Bob From Boston: I can't help it if your boys punted the pennant so here's three locks for your show parlay. With a dosage index of 9-1-10-2-0 and a center of distribution at .77, take Union Rags in the juvenile. Weemissfrankie's numbers are similar: doasge index of 7-1-7-1-0 and a center of distribution of .88. She'll be in the picture in the juvenile filles. Then parlay it all on The Factor to hit the Mile board. Save all the histrionics and leave Dr. Drunkinbum's family alone. A tip of your cap is all I ask.

steve from st louis 27 Oct 2011 5:19 PM

steve from st louy do the Roman dosage figures work well for the juvenile,the race is only at a mile and a sixteenth.

NASCAR PRO 27 Oct 2011 6:03 PM

hey dr drunk what do you think your ROI will be on the ROIMO exacta box,or are you playing it straight(no pun intended)

NASCAR PRO 27 Oct 2011 6:12 PM

Katethegreat, you are absolutely right on that. Why do we have to hate any of the horses that we race. And I just found out that Rapid Redux has just tied Zenyatta's and Pepper's Prides modern day, North American record of 19 straight races, the third horse to do it since 2008. Go Rapid Redux! And for the Breeders Cup this year, I will be at least on Saturday, sitting down in front of my television, watching every race there is to watch. And let me say, that I hope you guys are done complaining about the past, and lets just enjoy watching two full days of nothing but horse racing. Enjoy what we have this year, because the past is gone, the present is here, and the future is not quite here yet. Let's enjoy what we got now. Because, the good ones might not be in the racing scene much longer.

Jockeykid 27 Oct 2011 6:22 PM

A heart felt congratulations to Rapid Redux on tying Pepper's Pride and Zenyatta with his 19th victory in a row. One more win and he will put his name in the record books with the most consecutive victories, a record that will be well deserved. Amazing that this horse has won 19 straight races in 11 months. I was under the impression that more than 5 races in a year was too taxing on the modern thoroughbred...

Jimmy 27 Oct 2011 7:11 PM

Nice article Jason.  I am still 100% pulling for a win by Mo.  I think the fact that Mike Repole has his two "Derby contenders" still standing for the BC Classic speaks volumes, kudos to Mike and Todd Pletcher for getting Mo and Thirsty all this way.  I don't consider Mo a miler by any means as someone mentioned.  I have confidence he can get the distance, he is a unique Indian Charlie kid.  Second choice is Havre de Grace, and third is ROI.  And if the weather is wet as they may be predicting look out ROI could rule all slop too.  I like the fact that the Belmont winner made it to the BC Classic too.

Pulling for Goldikova too.  I hope she wins and we see her groom doing cartwheels on the sidelines again, or almost!!!  That was great to see last year, what it's all about.

Unfortunate for Tizway I was looking forward to seeing him run again, at least he does not need surgery I don't think and can retire soundly.

Thanks to Jason and Steve for giving us all the BC news and insights and for all the people responsible for getting these majestic animals to the BC races for us.  

Alex'sBigFan 27 Oct 2011 7:21 PM

Katethegreat, not only are you great, you are right. Good post Billy. I think sending Gio Ponti to the mile is the right thing to do. He has a good shot at that distance. What an incredibly solid horse he has been. Very impressive. Congrats to Rapid Redux on getting 19! Thanks for the story on him Jason.

Paula Higgins 27 Oct 2011 7:24 PM

Stacelita:  My pick in the Filly & Mare Turf, brilliant French mare.

Weak Breeders Cup field everywhere you look except the Turf Mile, and the above mentioned.  Goldikova however, makes the race an instant classic.

But it is the Breeders Cup and there should be some good betting races.  

The Classic is Harve De Grace race to lose, like her a lot........

The Deacon 27 Oct 2011 7:31 PM

Uncle Mo is a Breeders Cup Champion while going 2 turns at Churchill.  Anyone who believes that one year later it's too much to believe that a bigger stronger Mo can win again going a extra 300 yards at the exact same track is nuts.

Draynay 27 Oct 2011 7:33 PM

I'm locked in on 2 bets for the BC.  Euroears in the Sprint to win.  THen a late Pick 3; Union Rags in the Juvenile; All in the Mile; and Uncle Mo, Havre de Grace in the Classic.  Hoping for a bomb in the Mile.  

Kevin 27 Oct 2011 7:48 PM

Who, I equate the dosage with a "ct scan"; it tells me what's on the inside of a horse regardless of the distance. If a horse has a balanced dosage, with representation in brilliant, classic and stout lines, it has a better chance to run and succeed around two and three turns than a horse who is loaded up with numbers "to the left". Both juveniles I mentioned are bred along the lines of balanced runners.

Secretariat had a dosage of 20-14-7-9-0 for a dosage index of 3.0 and a center of distribution of .90. What was remarkable was the fact he was not inbred through the first five generations, a complete outcross. He was bred for speed but had balance on the right (stout) end, a high cruising speed with staying power. Well, what do you know?

steve from st louis 27 Oct 2011 8:16 PM

Who

   Over twenty years ago I made a 100 mile roundtrip before work to make a $20 straight exacta. I don't know why I didn't bet anything going the other way but I won anyway. It's just one of those times I thought I had it figured out but it still was dumb to not put anything the other way. I don't know what my return on investment(ROI) would be with the Mo and Ruler On Ice (ROI). It won't be too big since it involves one of the favorites or the favorite. It will definitely be boxed. I don't mess around with not betting it both ways anymore although sometimes I'll bet more one way than the other. What, what, what, what was I drinking?

Dr Drunkinbum 27 Oct 2011 9:37 PM

Jimmy that's not true.  That only applies if you hide in one state on a fake surface, are afraid to fly over the Rockies and can't race in the mud. Oh and it helps if you lose the only real race you ever entered.  Otherwise, no, real horses can do that.

Sylvester 27 Oct 2011 9:52 PM

Histrionics?  Histrionics?  Did you really just use that word on a horse racing blog?  Now we all know who has a dictionary next to his toilet.  Steve, I nominate you for blogger of the year on that post alone.  Additionally, I trust your wisdom and want you to repeat it often so I don't forget who to bet on when I get to the windows at Churchill.  I feel like I am being baited.  Is Steve from St. Louis really Single in LA?  Ted from LA's wife is not letting me type without talking about a bunch of random unimportant things (children, religion, World Series, politics, poverty, war, etc.).  Therefore, all typos and spelling errors are on her.

Bob from Boston 27 Oct 2011 10:10 PM

CHUCKY! Why is uncle mo the fav? How about one of the fastest beyers ever as atwo year old? how about the fastest beyer at a mile or more of anyone this year? how about the fact he is a champion?

KY VET 27 Oct 2011 10:36 PM

Kevin,

I don't know what your expectation is on that pik 3, but if one of highest odds horse doesn't hit the mile, your bet probably would pay anywhere from $10 (if Goldi wins) to $90 if you can get something in the 15 to 25 to one range.  Maybe three horses in the race that could get your bet over a hundred. Unless you plan to hammer that bet with confidence multiple times it might not be such a good play. If you are dead set on this approach then think about throwing out any horse you percieve to be 12 to 1 or less in the mile and double or triple up on the bet. Then, if you are right and get your bomb, you will make a few duckets. If anything less than 12-1 comes in you lose the bet, but probably not more than $50 per dollar, so no harm no foul.

dontelmeshome 27 Oct 2011 10:44 PM

Jason likes WILBURN in the mile..2:24 likes CALIB POSSE....in the mile....This is a classic example of 2 horses who have a real shot off their best races....if they fire, the will be tough......and betting them is EXACTLY WHAT NOT TO DO!!!!!! Listen people, its not hard to see these two have run great races....but you are picxking horses that have peaked already! Great races have an effect on horses....224 and jason simply dont get it......WATCH AND LEARN!

KY VET 27 Oct 2011 10:45 PM

Billy's Empire,

You have left me a bit confused with some of the statement in your post.

“Uncle Mo ran a 118 Beyer at the mile distance, beating handily one of the best milers this year Jackson Bend.”

I did some fact check and it appears you have some explaining to do regarding the above post. Jackson Bend’s mile record for 2011 is as follows:

03/12/2011 - 1 Mile Gulfstream Park Gll 5th

04/30/2011 -1 Mile Miami Mile Glll, 7th

10/01/2011 - 1 Mile Kelso Gll 2nd

The best miler in 2011 has hit the board once in three attempts at the distance. Uncle Mo’s 118 Beyer was achieved against a horse that won two 7/8 of mile races.

“If you think you have the best horse, you have to put him in the best race.”

Does Uncle Mo’s record qualify him as the best horse? Hardly! I can think I am Jesus it does not make me divine. Uncle Mo connections are disillusioned. There is a significant difference between potential and performance.  They may think he has the best potential but his record as a 3YO does not reflect same.

The comments below are not directed at you but I think they are pertinent as it appear there is yet another attempt to misrepresent this colt.

It has been stated in this forum that Uncle Mo is the fastest of his generation. (Yearling Crop of 2008) How many track records? None! The Factor – one. How many stakes record? None! To Honor and Serve – One. He has the fastest time for a mile at track renown for fast mile times. How can the fastest colt of a generation have no distinguishable speed record? Quality Road was the fastest colt of his generation. He set three track records. Uncle Mo has the best stride in racing yet he carries his head low with a high keen lift. The factor floats over ground with effortless ease and exceptional galloping posture and he does not get that vote. From every angle this colt is being promoted to be what he is not. The million dollar question is - Why?

Coldfacts 27 Oct 2011 11:50 PM

I just got the advance weather report for next Saturday and it will be wet !!!  Uncle Mo will crush them in the slop !!!

Draynay 27 Oct 2011 11:57 PM

There has been a lot of statement about quality of Uncle Mo’s Breeders Cup Juvenile performance and the resulting Beyer. In fact it has been so highly regarded he was projected to be A TC winner in 2011. Where does Uncle Mo’s BCJ performance rank in record terms?

Stakes Record - Favorite Trick   1:41.60

Widest winning margin - Street Sense - 10 lengths (at CD)

Highest Beyer - War Pass 113

Most memorable victory - Arazi

His performance was average in comparison to the colt above. In spite of these COLD FACTS, he is still considered this wonder horse with extra ordinary ability. He is expected to destroy the 2011 BCC field with 2 races in six months. Folks it’s time to stop the hype and fact the COLD FACTS. When will it end?

Coldfacts 28 Oct 2011 12:29 AM

Sylvester

Isn't there a hot air balloon contest somewhere that you can offer your services to?  

LAZMANNICK 28 Oct 2011 1:10 AM

To any of you that are convinced UM will win the classic,I am interested to read what race tactics he will employ to win the race.Keep in mind there should be about 11 other horses in the field.

NASCAR PRO 28 Oct 2011 3:18 AM

Aidan O'Brien with 12 pre-entrie huh.  How many of them is he fixing to have breakdown,  Have no respect for this trainer since he allowed George Washington to run in the 2007 Monmouth monsoon.  The horse broke down right in front of me, and it was awful.  He never should have been allowed on that track.

PomDeTerre 28 Oct 2011 8:22 AM

Perhaps if Uncle Mo were trained by Charlie Whittingham or Woody Stephens, I might concede he had a shot to go 10f successfully off of an abbreviated preparation. But this is Todd Pletcher, who sent dozens of colts into the Kentucky Derby before he got lucky and won it. (Whittingham ran only 4 horses in the Derby, for 2 wins and a second.) Pletcher prepared Quality Road for the Classic with a 2-month layoff and no races at 10f all year long. How'd that turn out?

Pedigree Ann 28 Oct 2011 9:37 AM

The friday card is not very interesting to me at all. My only play will be a wps ticket on Miss Netta. Overall the Breeders Cup is carding far too many races.

Juv. Turf- 1)Animal Spirits 2)State Of Play

Sprint- 1)Euroears

Juv.- 1)Alpha 2)Union Rags

Turf- 1)Brilliant Speed

Dirt Mile- 1)Trappe Shot 2)Tapizar

Mile- 1)Jeranimo 2)Turallure

Classic- 1)Havre de Grace 2)Ruler On Ice

The Dirt Mile should be extremely exciting. Trappe Shot is far to classy to ignore, 6F is not his best distance. Tapizar is the one horse who really scares me in here.

Jeranimo has disappointed me many times, maybe this time he will run two huge races in a row. After running a mile in 1:32 3/5, Jeranimo should not be overlooked.

Havre de Grace is a gorgeous and powerful horse that will prove to the world that she is a deserving champion. Two years ago I stated that Saint Liam would produce a champion. The way I see it, Havre de Grace is still improving and is the horse to beat.

With Tizway out, Ruler On Ice is my second choice and I have Rattlesnake Bridge in my third spot. I like the way Ruler On Ice found his best stride late in the PA Derby. He showed that he can rate well and still finish with a big punch. Rattlesnake Bridge is my live longshot play. I truely believe that he did not care for the Parx racing surface.

So You Think is a nice horse, but until he wins on dirt, he is off my tickets.

Uncle Mo is an instant toss for me. His Grade I wins were in 2010 against creampuffs. In 2011 Uncle Mo has beaten Jackson Bend, big deal. Oh I forgot, he beat Rattlesnake Bridge last winter when the snake was extremely green. The beyer speed figure he received in the Kelso means nothing when he enters a race at 1 1/4 miles against stout competition. His presence in the Classic will only improve the price of my picks.

Forbidden Apple 28 Oct 2011 10:25 AM

Bob, I'm sorry. I forgot you're from Boston. Two syllable words are beyond your ken, much less three? FWIW, I was a member of the National Turf Writers Association out of Chicago for eight years (I think some of my stories still pull up on google). The only book in my bathroom is This Was Racing by Joe Palmer. Why don't you check it out, you might learn something. As for my picks, talk to me next Sunday. As for Ted, don't ever use his name in vain again.

steve from st louis 28 Oct 2011 10:51 AM

I just looked at saturday's Santa Anita entries and found Bob Black Jack entered. I thought that he was retired. Does anyone have updates on this horse and his recent conditioning?

Forbidden Apple 28 Oct 2011 11:33 AM

DRAYNO...they might use the slop to run him in the mile instead...

"it's predicted to be wet, so we opted to run Mo in the mile instead, of course if Mo ran in the Classic, he would have won...more bs more bs bs more bs bs some more some more bs"

chucky 28 Oct 2011 12:03 PM

How come Shackleford gets no respect in the Dirt Mile?

Wild pick in the Juv. Sprint: Shumoos

Juv F Turf: Hard Not to Like and Northern Passion -- I know, I know, everyone loves Somali Lemonade but too bad

Juv Filles:  still like Stphanie's Kitten

Filly & Mare Turf: pick any Euro

Turf: pick a Euro mare

Classic: hoping for the Mare but worrying about So You Think.

---

Steve from St. Louis: if you get yourself one of them there Mr. Jobs (r.i.p.) thingies, you can be reading tons of important stuff written by Jason and Steve and others (as well as yer scifi stuff: Aikenite in the sprint; Dullahan/Prospective/Alpha in the Juv; no more Z in the blogs, etc. etc)while in the library.

Ted: good that your log got unjammed.

mz 28 Oct 2011 12:09 PM

Forbidden Apple,

Haver de Grace hasn't improved...she lost to Blind luck last year at 10 furlongs and lost again to BL this year at 10 furlongs...yeah she could have improved her time at 9 furlongs but these horses are 9 furlongs horses to begin with....

get my drift..so to say Grace has improved is not true....the classic is at 10 furlongs...unlike the Woodward...which is 9 furlongs.

that one furlong is a very huge difference there....

chucky 28 Oct 2011 1:11 PM

Coldfacts, again you have no idea what you are talking about.  The track last year was death to any horse with speed.  Horses up front that day ALL LOST except 1.  Uncle Mo.  The fact is Uncle Mo will again stalk his prey and will get first shot coming into the final stretch where many will be hoping he will back up to the rest of the field.  But to suggest his performance wasn't spectacular is just plain nonsense.  Uncle Mo has only lost when being sick and coming back from being sick.  Betting against a horse that is otherwise undefeated is crazy in my opinion.  He is going to win with ease and then many will being saying Havre wasn't all that anyway.

Draynay 28 Oct 2011 2:10 PM

KY VET - I will watch, and if Caleb's Posse doesn't win the Mile, I suspect that I will learn from that as well.

2:24 28 Oct 2011 2:21 PM

KY VET,

I read your opinion on Wilburn and Caleb's Posse in the Dirt Mile. I think that you're wrong about these colts because Wilburn is a son of Bernardini and these types are still improving: his best is yet to come. Caleb's Posse has good space between his races and is still on top of his game.  Lets see your pick. At the moment I fancy Trappe Shot's chances of pulling it off but this is a really competitive line up.

Ranagulzion 28 Oct 2011 2:43 PM

mz: I'm "techtarded" so no electricity in my loo, i might shock myself.

steve from st louis 28 Oct 2011 2:57 PM

On Uncle Mo, can the pedigree experts here please tell me about his dam side. I am aware of the sire side, but pedigree includes the mother's side too, right? What are the indications for the classic distance based on his dam's lineage?

Alexaso 28 Oct 2011 3:10 PM

steve from st louis, is your writing under your "steve from st louis" name?  I'd like to read some of your work.  Chicago?  Arlington Park is like home away from home to me.  Don't worry about me hurting Ted from LA.  Where basically the same guy and there are rooms in both of our heads that I refuse to enter.

Bob from Boston 28 Oct 2011 3:20 PM

I keep reading all these arguments for and against Mo.  We just don't know.  He had a bad year, not his fault.  He seems to be doing quite well now.  No, he has not won at 9 furlongs and his prep for the BCC is short.  If this horse is as good as his connections think, he may overcome that and that would be the biggest story of the year.  If he does not win, it could be attributed to rushing him before he was ready or he is not a 10 furlong horse.  It is not a given that he will lose or win but it will be so exciting to watch.  I thing he and HDG make this race really interesting.

MonicaV 28 Oct 2011 3:26 PM

I'm actually excited about the BC, but it would seem I'm in the minority here.  If that's true, what the hell is everyone arguing about?

Classic?  So You Think, Havre de Grace, and THAS.  This is the total class of the field.

Uncle Mo can win the dirt mile, but in the Classic???  I simply don't see it.  I thought Gosden was bringing Nathaniel, but I don't seem him entered anywhere.  Does anyone know why?

Of course I want to see Goldikova win the turf mile again, but I also would like to see Gio Ponti take it.  And then there's Zoffany, who's very good.

I'm worried about Big Drama's lack of racing this year, though he's one of my favorites in the sprint.  I think Jackson Bend will go here if UM takes to the dirt mile.

I think Wilburn could take the dirt mile, but Caleb's Posse won't make it easy for him.

It seems the Euros will be taking the turf...there are sooo many top class horses entered.

I really have to think about them all for a while...I have a week...it may pass more quickly than I think.

Slew 28 Oct 2011 3:28 PM

Dray, that is a legitimate point that Mo's only 2 losses (a close second and a third) were either while sick (why did Pletcher not have the sack to tell his owner, pre-Derby trail or not, the horse is not healthy or did he really not see it? Come on!) or off a long lay-off. I just don't have the respect for this guy like I do Baffert, Zito or Jones. I think that works to Mo's disadvantage is he doesn't have the best trainer. Good enough, maybe. The Quality Road fiasco ...the gate thing and then running too far the following year certainly showcase the ?s with the Pletcher camp either being clueless or not caring if the owners make themselves look like fools. Certainly no one is going to tell Repole what to do either way.

Hey did anyone catch that it sure sounds like they are planning on bringing back Harve De Grace as a 5 yr old? I'm thinking if she wins...don't bother. Let her retire in peace. Though if she dominates...hmmmm then again I can see the temptation.

This is Goldi's and Gio Ponti's last races too right? I can't help but root for the homeboy...it would be spectacular to see Goldi pull off a 4 peat...but seeing Gio's last race, what heart!

1 more week and we start to settle some things out here...uh..just had a thought....long winter. Can't wait til the early derby trail picks up late January...

GoldenBroom 28 Oct 2011 3:45 PM

Draynay said  "Coldfacts, again you have no idea what you are talking about.  The track last year was death to any horse with speed.  Horses up front that day ALL LOST except 1.  Uncle Mo"

WRONG!!! A horse named Big Drama went gate to wire

Johnny 28 Oct 2011 5:38 PM

Pedigree Ann.  Plus Pletcher talked Quality Road up so much the week prior to the Classic and then had NO explanation, none, ziltch, for the people like Draynay who listened to him.  He learned much from master Lukas.  

Householder 28 Oct 2011 7:39 PM

2;24 and RAN....Im a professional horseplayer....i make a living betting horses...these are horses that look great on paper, ill give you another one ..jackson bend....im trying to teach you all something....these are all low odds horses, i will not bet...they obviously can win off their best, but to win at this game you must know when to jump off them before THEY GO OFF FORM. these horses are ripe to pick against...

KY VET 28 Oct 2011 7:51 PM

I believe that Havre de Grace will eventually be sold at a sale just like Blind Luck.  Porter sold his  BC winner Round Pond in tis manner.  

skyfire 28 Oct 2011 8:17 PM

Slew- I posted earlier but it didn't seem to get through.  Nathaniel needs alot of cut in the ground and I don;t think they thought it would be soft enough.  He had already been held out of races in Europe because the turf wasn't soft enough.

Footlick 28 Oct 2011 8:36 PM

KY. Vet:  I appreciate all the help and knowledge I can get.

2:24 28 Oct 2011 8:53 PM

Weather.com is showing Louisville's weather on BC Saturday 59 Sunny and 0% of rain.  The filly's going to romp!  

Sylvester 28 Oct 2011 8:57 PM

KY vet the great athletes in ANY sport are great because of their consistency.Their drop-off in form does not alter the outcome because they are so much better than the rest.As far as TRUE champions look at their race records they rarely finish off the board.The horses that have significant drop off in form have physical problems which might not be serious but their race form drops from one race to another.I believe if you are good at analyzing form cycles you are probably an expert at betting lower graded and ungraded stakes and maybe claiming races.

NASCAR PRO 28 Oct 2011 9:04 PM

Coldfacts thank you for your post,I was trying to think of that horses name and I couldnt come up with it.Favorite Trick he reminded me of Mo in his 2yo season eventhough my memory and playing of the horses was not as much a daily thing as it is now.If you get a chance dig up some facts about Favorite Tricks 3yo season,or tell me where to search.Thnx in advance.

NASCAR PRO 28 Oct 2011 9:09 PM

Pom de Terre - you're blaming Aiden O'Brien for George Washington's breakdown?  What about all the other trainers who entered their horses that day?  It was ok for them to risk their horses but not Aiden?  

Arts and Letters 28 Oct 2011 9:11 PM

Ithink that all the Mo lovers should wait for next years Timely Writer before unloading at the windows.

Arch the phoneman 28 Oct 2011 10:18 PM

I will give you another horse that look great on paper to run bad.......DRILL!    WHO!!! You dont know much....Here is an example...how about all the triple crown preps! upset after upset...why?  horses went off form...heres another example...plum pretty, its tricky,royal delta....they take turns...why is that? each time one wins, they get beat....huh,,,, i wonder why? sometimes it takes 1 race, sometimes a group of strong races....horses dont stay sharp long....why do zenyatta or cigar last long?  they went as fast as they had to...they had more in the tank....rapid redex? same thing!!! watch and learn!

KY VET 28 Oct 2011 11:03 PM

here is another bad bet..horse that looks great on paper, to run dissappointing.......FLAT OUT!...thats 5 or 6 ive given you to go off form

KY VET 28 Oct 2011 11:07 PM

The only true closer that won on dirt in the 2010 Breeders Cup was Dakota Phone and that was due to the hot pace up front. The rest of the horses were either mid-pack or close to the pace. Typical Draynay, making up facts to support his ignorant statements.

Stevebiscuit 28 Oct 2011 11:08 PM

Is it me? how come youre all not mentioning one of the best horses in the breeders cup? MY MISS AURIELIA!!!!!!!!! Cant recognize a good horse when you see one? This is a really good filly!!!!

KY VET 28 Oct 2011 11:23 PM

Hi! I am new here so be gentle! Katethegreat, Jockeykid, I have your sense of this talk about past horses. I love all of them! Afleet Alex is my personal favorite, we should have had our TripleCrown his year, damn that 20 horse field and Giacomo! Anyway,I want to bet this year's BC. I am a rookie,so, any tips? TVG? Any advice? Rank rookie here!

captainsmistress 28 Oct 2011 11:44 PM

KY VET....what exactly is MO champion of? oh yeah last year...and what does his mile kelso have to do running 10 furlongs?...you know how many fools got taken by Belmont's fast track?...

uncle MO is nothing but SLO MO as soon as he his about 8.75 - 9.25 furlongs.....

you know what is wrong with this industry today....the idiotic hyping and marketing of these 8 to 9 furlong speed horses...Rachel, Quality Road, Uncle Mo....

of course the fans today are no better thinking these horses can run 10 furlongs...THEY CAN'T....

there is no more BLAME or ZENYATTA this year....If any horse is a proven router - it's SO YOU THINK or Await The Dawn and Flat Out barely...

chucky 28 Oct 2011 11:47 PM

George was Gorgeous George alright, he broke down right in front of me standing there too at Monmouth.  I think what PomdeTerre meant was that George W. had been retired from racing but lost fertility and was brought from breeding back into racing.  That in itself was fine, he, after all, is a racehorse and his job in life was to run.  What was questionable was the fact that was George W. ready for the caliber of the BC Classic to come back in?  That is the only point I question O'Brien on, not bringing him back but bringing him back into THAT race.  He was a stunningly beautiful looking animal and the photos of him working the week before at Monmouth are heartbreaking now to look at.  We want the Euros in the BC races, that's the point to bring the other champions in but not at the point of Euro trainers being overextended in horseflesh to train.  But, bring 'em on!  I still think about George W., he was Europe's champion who broke down on our land and not a word about it or any tributes on any BC websites or articles except in Bloodhorse.  Bloodhorse is spot on and does right by the horses.

Alex'sBigFan 29 Oct 2011 12:04 AM

FYI - TVG's show "The Works" begins Saturday morning with workouts from Churchill.  I know I, for one, look forward to this show every year.  They show the early morning workouts of most of all the contenders and the Euro arrivals as well.

Can't believe New Jersey's weather forecast for this Saturday is snow!  Yikes!  Doesn't bode well for the east as future host BC site does it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alex'sBigFan 29 Oct 2011 12:14 AM

Draynay,

“Coldfacts, again you have no idea what you are talking about.

Instead of posting the apology I requested of Jason’s Controlled Enthusiasm blog you have chosen again to Levy accusations and provide inaccurate information. Let’s set the records straight. No oral exchanges are done on these blogs. Consequently you should avoid advising posters that they do not know what they are talking about.  The exchanges are in written rather than Spoken.

“Horses up front that day ALL LOST except 1.  Uncle Mo.”

I must have suffered an optical illusion while watching the Breeders Cup Sprint. I could have sworn that Big Drama led from gate to wire. Well, I will rely on your excellent memory and concur with the above.

“The fact is Uncle Mo will again stalk his prey and will get first shot coming into the final stretch”

Interesting assessment!  I suppose he will run right by To Honor and Server and Game On Dude just like he did the maiden Riveting Reason or the tiring leaders in the King's Bishop.

“But to suggest his performance wasn't spectacular is just plain nonsense”

I did not specify the colt’s performance was not spectacular. I highlighted in my post that there were BCJ performances that were way better. With the exception of Arazi none of the others were regarded as special in the manner of Uncle Mo. The colt’s BCJ was very impressive. So to was that of Vale Of York.

“Uncle Mo has only lost when being sick and coming back from being sick”

In the Wood Memorial he was 1-5. There were no reports of him being sick preceding the race. Are you aware that the two colts that finished ahead of him exited the race with issues that sidelined them as well? I guess the first three past the post were all sick. His loss in the Kin's Bishop was due to him returning from sickness. Let’s see, he beat all but one. The one he didn’t beat was due to him returning from sickness. Do realize the absurdity of your assessment?

“Betting against a horse that is otherwise undefeated is crazy in my opinion”

Uncle Mo has lost two of his seven starts and is other wise undefeated in five. Would such a status be applicable to say, To Honor and Serve who lost four of his nine but is otherwise undefeated in five?  I guess the reasons for loosing are different so he does not qualify. Truly Amazing

Coldfacts 29 Oct 2011 1:06 AM

KY VET

Great advice.  Now can you give me a horse that might pay 10-1 in the BCC and give me the reasons why I should consider him/her?

LAZMANNICK 29 Oct 2011 1:32 AM

Bob From Boston,

steve from stlouis is not Single in LA.  LA Dakota is Single in LA. Single has been in mourning over the loss of Ted From LA. I'm on to you. You've got Ted locked in a basement somewhere. And now you're cuckolding with Ted's wife. (OMG! Ted has a wife!! Single is devastated.)

LA Dakota 29 Oct 2011 1:58 AM

Alex's BigFan - I agree, Bloodhorse definitely has great coverage.  I could ask for a bit more on Australia and Europe, but it's better than everyone else.  As for the Europeans - go Caspar Netscher and Daddy Long Legs!  

Arts and Letters 29 Oct 2011 2:35 AM

Slyvester,  This time the filly is going to be running with 13 other horses or so,  she may not get the perfect trip but we can all hope for the best.   Nothing is a guarantee.

Guiness 29 Oct 2011 7:44 AM

Skyfire, I truly hope not. If this filly gives them  a HOTY and they put her up on an auction block, then that will be terrible, just terrible. I bet thats what will happen though.  

Guiness 29 Oct 2011 7:48 AM

Chucky,

Since the Delaware Handicap, Havre de Grace has won two Grade I races. Blind Luck however has been knocked out since that last battle with Havre de Grace. Both fillies are tremendous horses, I have just noticed a sharp improvement in Havre de Grace's last two races. She is clearly improving and will be tough to run down in the stretch. Ramon was on cruise control to win the Beldame, this horse is blossoming at the perfect time.

Do you remember all of the hype after Rachel Alexandra beat the boys?

Havre de Grace deserves much more respect than she is getting. The 1 1/4 mile distance will suit her just fine.

KY Vet,

Flat Out always runs hard, I don't see why he should all of the sudden go off form. There is nothing wrong with being second best to Havre de Grace or Tizway.

If you like Miss Aurielia, watch the replay of the Frizette, keep a close eye on the start. Miss Netta broke slow and was very rank in the first quarter mile. She ended up closing fast for a third place finish. Miss Aurielia will be a short priced obvious pick for the general betting public.

Forbidden Apple 29 Oct 2011 9:57 AM

Forbidden Apple;

Here is a piece regarding the return of Bob Black Jack:

www.drf.com/.../santa-anita-bob-black-jack-6-comeback-kid-again

-Keelerman

-Keelerman 29 Oct 2011 12:51 PM

Bodog has confirmed what I have know for a long time.  Uncle Mo will be the favorite next Saturday in the Classic.  Bodog has UM at 3 to 1 and Havre at 9 to 2.  You will not get 3 to 1 on Mo and as good as he is looking at Churchill you will be lucky to get 9 to 5.  Uncle Mo just looks much better than the field and looks much stronger and fresher than other horses.  Mo has "IT" the same "IT" you we have seen in other brilliant 3 year old horses.  When he got weak with liver disease many said he would never race again and even more said he would never win again.  Here he is poised to come back from a serious illness and win the biggest race of the year versus the very best.  Mo is already a champion and my grandfather told me a long time ago to never bet against the champion.  No one gave Mo a chance, when he wins on Saturday I hope everyone will eat some crow and admit they have seen something special.  Mo is 1 great win away from 3 year old of the year and HOY.

Draynay 29 Oct 2011 2:00 PM

Coldfacts, again you have no idea what you are talking about.  After the race they discovered through many test that Mo had a serious liver ailment as we all now know.  After 4 months off because of illness he came back to just miss a win by a nose.  He has raced ill and coming back from illness and did well on talent alone.  When 100% he is undefeated and dominates to say the least. There is no doubt he is coming into the race 100% betting against him is a losing idea.

Draynay 29 Oct 2011 2:14 PM

As a long time watcher of horses that break down on the archaic racing strip at Churchill downs, I notice less trainers working their horses there. If they know that CD is so bad, why don't they demand a long over due resurfacing? Think about all the good horses that ran their last race there or their last work. Lookin at Lucky? Eskyndraya(?), The five best horses that lost to the barely grade 3 horse, Giacomo? How about the dabacle last year? A greasy turf course that was unfit for racing. The sloppy track that cracks bones and when drying up, is so cuppy, it strains tendons. It's not all that good when its dry!

It's hard to get enthusiastic when there's a chance of rain.

Arrgy 29 Oct 2011 2:31 PM

KY vet I know enough to be profitable betting exotics and win place and show to cover my exotic bets for an entire year.If you dont believe it I can make a wager with you and send yo the records for 2010.Furthermore I dont care if you are a proffessional gambler you definitely cant teach me a thing that I have an interest in learning.

NASCAR PRO 29 Oct 2011 2:47 PM

KY VET,

I appreciate your insight because, as 2:24 says, I also need all the help I can get.  Regarding MY MISS AURELIA, I like her a lot but she is going to be a short price.  Do you think she has more left or has she peaked?  With the speed in here and first time around two turns can she hold them all off after that monster Frizette win?  I think she can and will because she's the class of this field, has her races spaced out and stands above them at this point.

The other filly I really like is Royal Delta in the Ladies' Classic.  Clearly the best in the muddy Beldame other than Havre de Grace, she's ready to improve off that effort and also has her races well spaced.

As competitive as the Dirt Mile is, it's a fact: The Factor and a decent price.

trackjack 29 Oct 2011 3:35 PM

WHO...nicely said....Track.....I havent made picks yet...I just was wondering how nobody is talking about this filly....shes awesome!

KY VET 29 Oct 2011 4:07 PM

Ky Vet: I've had hall of fame trainers personally tell me their horse "can't lose" only to see them up the track for any of a thousand uncontrollable reasons and others who say "i'm not as tight as i want to be" and have them win off laughing. I've meta few professionals who know their way back to the windows but I've never met one willing to help school strangers in a public forum.

Why are you so willing to lower your own price on a horse you like? A true professional gambler who makes their living punting would never do that; ergo, I'm skeptical.

steve from st louis 29 Oct 2011 4:41 PM

Draynay, Uncle Mo has ZERO chance of winning HOTY. Even if he wins the Classic, he's 2011 resume is far too weak.

Stevebiscuit 29 Oct 2011 5:18 PM

Im starting to lean towards the mare especially seeing Porter not hedge at all,and bodog making UM the favorite.I have bet so many races that I have good instints right before post time so what I say here one week away could change.I will definitely include the mare in my exotics theres no question on paper at route distances the only more accomplished animal in the field is So You Think,but he hasnt run on dirt.Also American racing is a lot different the field dosent wait until the end of the race to start running if you can get a jump on the field after the last turn you do it.

NASCAR PRO 29 Oct 2011 6:13 PM

If Mo wins big and dominates the field who else should win ?  Coming back to win the Classic after such a bad illness?  It would be the story of the year.

Draynay 29 Oct 2011 6:29 PM

Stevebiscuit after watching who won last year and how weak that resume was ANYTHING can happen.

Draynay 29 Oct 2011 6:45 PM

steve from St Louis

   You have a problem with philanthropists?

Stevebiscuit

  What if Mo wins the Classic and then wins the Cigar Mile?

Dr Drunkinbum 29 Oct 2011 7:03 PM

KY VET,

You post very confidently about your prowess as a bettor. Next Saturday we'll se whose picks better.

I'll post mine and I look forward to seeing yours.

steve from st louis,

KY VET will post his selections because his reputation is on the line on here. Notwithstanding his ego, you should credit him with enough modesty for not believing that every reader and poster on here is going to run to the betting windows the gobble up his picks.  You need to understand that what's at stake here is what money at attractive odds can't buy. There's no true VET that wants to be regarded as a QUACK for failing to put his mouth where his money is ...if you get my drift.

Ranagulzion 29 Oct 2011 7:12 PM

Dr. D., then he might have a shot, but I wouldn't bet on him winning either race.

Draynay, Zenyatta had 5 grade 1s going into the Breeders Cup Classic. Uncle Mo has ZERO! Now THAT is a weak resume. At least Zenyatta had many excuses to lose last year's ultra-talented field. Uncle Mo will have no excuse. This field is a bunch of creampuffs and Churchill is his best surface. When he finishes up the track as a huge underlay I'll look forward to hearing your pathetic excuses. Just be happy the Queen retired last year. She'd destroy Uncle Mo any day!

Stevebiscuit 29 Oct 2011 8:13 PM

People...THE BREEDERS CUP is just another day! ASK COLDCUTS, AAF, and others  about how i won 5000 on street sense..10 to 1 on early derby bet..2800 on ravens pass(10 to 1) .on and on....they wont tell you the truth..(because they are both ignorant)....And im not worried about changing the odds..you can figure that one out....and i dont really care if i lose every race....im a pro.  just another day.....

KY VET 29 Oct 2011 9:18 PM

LA Dakota,

If I weren't already gelded, I would like to start a small family with you.  As it stands, we should have coffee at the Starbucks next to Churchill Downs Friday morning and have Sherpa carry our stuff around all day.

Bob from Boston 29 Oct 2011 9:19 PM

Mo has beaten G1 winners this year which is more than I can say for the State Restricted Poly Champion she beat 0 G1 winners last year and still for the first time ever won HOY while beating no one.

Draynay 29 Oct 2011 9:40 PM

Stevebiscuit keep dreaming.  Zenyatta was what she was.  Great on fake rubber but just good on dirt. Had she spent her career racing at CD, Saratoga, Belmont and GSP she would've had a 65-70% batting average. You can't beat what amounts to allowance caliber fillies by noses and heads then claim to be the best and then lose by a head and count that the same as winning. You can't have it both ways.  She got beat. No excuse.  She wasn't good enough. Havre De Grace and Uncle Mo both would beat her on dirt. Easily.  No doubt in my mind. Yes, Zenyatta would probably beat them on recycled rubber but who cares?  Only a minimal percentage of horses can run on that crap and most trainers avoid it like the plague because unlike dirt it isn't indicative of which horse is the best.  Dirt is. Blame was the best horse in the race last year and clearly the best horse last year.  Even Draynay who was on Quality Road's bandwagon can admit that.  Why can't you Z nuts?    

Sylvester 29 Oct 2011 10:58 PM

Forbidden apple -

I don't get the logic...Blind Luck beat Grace twice at 10 furlongs...If you believe Grace hype, then Blind Luck and Grace are the best horse running today in USA.

Do you really believe that?

I don't think so....

So let's stop the hype:

Havre de Grace A THROWOUT 7th or 8th

Uncle Mo...no mo @ 9 furlong market...6th or 7th...

these 2 favorites will be up the track....

chucky 30 Oct 2011 1:29 AM

Records of the last five HOY:

2010 - Zenyatta (6-5-1-0) winner of five of a six Gl

2009 - Rachel Alexandra - (8-8-0-0) five Gl (Undefeated)

2008 - Curlin (7-5-2-0) winner of five of a six Gl

2007 - Curlin (9-6-1-2) winner of three of a six Gl

2006 - Invasor (4-4-0-0) winner of four Gl (Undefeated)

Average Gl wins 4.4

It is unlikely that either Uncle Mo or any other horse with a résumé that does not come close to the above will win the 2011 HOY award. The award is not based on sympathy or a good recovery story. When will some posters start facing the COLD FACTS?

Coldfacts 30 Oct 2011 9:07 AM

Keelerman,

Thank you for posting the link on Bob Black Jack's return to racing. I have always been more interested in turf racing, but this little sprinter has been one of my favorite horses to follow. He ran second yesterday in a very good performance. I only hope that he came out of the race well and will go on to battle another day.

Uncle Mo will not be HOY, in 2011 his best performance was in a Grade II event against Jackson Bend. Just like he was NOT a 2011 Triple Crown Winner. His morning line should be more like 10-1. How could anyone be excited about accepting 3-1 or less on the Timely Writer champion?

And by the way, Switch was a grade I winner as well as Lookin At Lucky, and Quality Road. And it is quite possible that their were others in the B.C. Classic that were Grade I winners. It is amazing to me how people see a narrow second place finish to Blame as a poor effort.

Forbidden Apple 30 Oct 2011 11:59 AM

After watching Uncle Mo work earlier today I think he will be scratched from the Breeder Cup Classic. He did not have is usual energy and look lethargic. With his breeding right already sold there is no need for another Quality Road debacle. To Honor and Serve’s action looked the smoothest I have seen since I have been following him and that spells trouble for all. I still remain convinced he will win in a romp baring So You Think liking dirt.

Coldfacts 30 Oct 2011 12:01 PM

Not true DRAYNAY-

I could care a less to be honest you like Zenyatta you didnt like Zenyatta I mean its total history and does nothing to help pick a winner today or in the future. So as far as I am concerned when people talk about last year it says alot about how bad a year they had this year in Stakes races and picking winners. (sound like you Dray? I mean your winter/spring lead up to the Derby was one of the worse picking of horses I ever seen) I am thinking throwing darts at numbers would have a better % then what you were picking winners at!! But if your going to make a statement at least let it be true. I think there were some G1 Winners behind Zenyatta in the the 2010 BC Classic including YOUR Quality Road! Now as for handicapping the race last year doesn't look very good that you backed a horse that was on a 9 week layoff and had a hard campaign all year. I mean lets call a spade a spade the ones that did bet Zenyatta to win (which was not me by the way) cashed the same amount of tickets you did in the Classic. Let it go dude, she beat you in 2008 in the Ladies Classic, the 2009 BC Classic, and she beat you again last year in the Classic. She is the 2010 HOTY and nothing you can do will change it. BOTH horses Blame and Zenyatta could of won HOTY last year and either won would be worthy of the honor.

furlongs 30 Oct 2011 12:16 PM

Bob from Boston,

I'm still mad at you for kidnapping Ted, and unfortunately I will be 2100 miles away from Churchill on Friday morning. However, in the interest of detente (or is it the Stockholm syndrome?), I will go to my local Starbucks, order a chai latte, and raise my cardboard cup in Ted's honor. Enjoy the races.  See you next year at Santa Anita.

LA Dakota 30 Oct 2011 12:27 PM

RANAGULZION,

The A P Indy colt Take Charge Indy looked fantastic Sunday morning. Union Rags is in trouble to hit the board. Occasionally I provide some cold facts to overturn your A P Indy late development syndrome theory. Are you aware that the A P Indy colt A P Valentine won the 2000 Champagne Stakes in the second fastest time for the 8.5F distance of the race? His development was very late indeed..

Coldfacts 30 Oct 2011 12:43 PM

draynay: zenyatta beat G1 winner last year in switch.  just saying.

mo wins the classic and union rags toys with the juv field. union rags is HOTY. nuff said

thomas 30 Oct 2011 12:48 PM

Sylvester, you do realize that by claiming Zenyatta wasn't a dirt horse that you are just flattering her? The fact that a "synthetic specialist" came a head away from beating the best older males in the world only complements her legacy. I couldn't care less if you and Draynay think Blame is better, if that helps you guys sleep at night. Guys with real credibility(John Nerud, Allen Jerkens...etc) believe along with the vast majority of the racing world that Zenyatta was easily the best horse in the world last year. Sorry if that's hard to swallow.

Stevebiscuit 30 Oct 2011 2:51 PM

Coldfacts

  To Honor And Serve has definitely moved up the list. I will no longer be surprised by a top three although I'm still going to try to beat him. Your description of "lethargic" for Mo doesn't sound good. Very interesting. Is an illness recurrence possible? Did he peak physically already? Did he have an off day? Certainly he will have to look really good physically race day to be included. Pletcher said he was happy with the work so I'm not really sure what to think. Welsh wasn't impressed from what I read so far. Did anyone else see Mo today?

Dr Drunkinbum 30 Oct 2011 2:56 PM

How funny it is to read these comments about last years champion. You notice that last years champion always gets mentioned on every blog, regardless of topic?

Do you also notice, that inevitably, it is someone who got beat by last years champion over and over and in many different ways through the previous three years, that brings up her name first?  

I find that interesting and extremely telling (as well as rewarding and very enjoyable).  I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when ever I read one of these negative comments about last years retired champion, a full year later and unsolicited.

I tell you it's like another victory for last years champion, everytime I see one of these comments on a thread not pertaining to last years champion. Victory, victory, victory, again and again. She is truly the gift that keeps on giving.  

Why? Why, would anyone who thought last years champion wasn't very good continue to fight the fight long after retirement? There really can only be one true reason.

It's like feeling her championship win over and over and over everytime one these unsolicited posts comes up (which is every new blog).  

Thank you Draynay, Sylvester and Jason.  With every mention of last years champion, unsolicited, last years champion's supporters get further proof that she beat you.

Her supporters have all moved on and will remember her as one of the greatest who ever lived, but, I truly appreciate you boys letting me feel that feeling of commplete and total satisfaction as she continues to dominate you even in retirement.  How great is that!

The best part is that you boys don't even get it.

We all laugh in your general direction, and you boys don't even get that. The victories just keep piling up, so pleaseeee, keep it coming.

I can't wait till after this years BC races for the first mention of the retired champion from two years ago. Truly a gift.

dontelmeshome 30 Oct 2011 3:12 PM

Coldfacts is now an expert on works a horse puts in and can tell the winner of races based on those works 6 days before the race.  LMFAO.

Draynay 30 Oct 2011 3:50 PM

LA Dakota,

If Ted from LA has kidnapped you, and you have fallen for him to the point of defending him, than the appropriate phrase is Stockholm Syndrome.  If you're trying to make peace with me because I offered you a $2.41 cup of coffee it would be detente.

I've been to Santa Anita for Breeders' Cup.  Wonderful experience.  What's everyone going as for Halloween?  Ted from LA was going to go as John Holmes, but he didn't have time to grow a moustache.  Uncle Mo will not go.

Bob from Boston 30 Oct 2011 6:25 PM

Read somewhere that Gio Ponti's worst loss was by 4 lengths? Are you kidding me?! Sorry Goldi...got to root for the gold ole' boy to go out on top.

GoldenBroom 30 Oct 2011 7:59 PM

thomas why don't you name the G1 win Switch had when she met The Restricted Poly State Champion.  FACT IS she won a G1 AFTER meeting TRPSC.  TRPSC didn't beat a single G! winner all year but for the first time in history STILL was given HOY.  A black eye racing will have to deal with for a long time.

Draynay 30 Oct 2011 8:07 PM

Coldfacts,

Your observations/comments on Uncle Mo are not to be trusted, based upon past performances (LOL)

AP Valentine is one of those sons of AP Indy that promised much but delivered little: mentioning him only proves my point.  He did precious little in the spring but ran a distant second to Point Given in the Belmont Stakes in June 2001.

Take Charge Indy and Alpha (like Astrology, Stay Thirsty and To Honour and Serve) may be showing talent now as 2YOs but the big question is: will they be serious contenders in the Triple Crown series next year?  Check the cold facts of history and you'll find the answer. Union Rags is much the best of the curent crop of 2YOs right now (a cinch for the BCJ) and he's going to be even better in the Spring next year, based upon his pedigree.  Creative Cause, Drill and Hansen are ahead of your AP Indy/Bernardini duo of Take Charge Indy and Alpha IMO.

Ranagulzion 30 Oct 2011 8:48 PM

KY VET,

I see you touting the chalk of the Breeder's Cup Juvenile fillies, My Miss Aurelia, however there are two fillies coming to lower her stocks ...I'll include them in my picks.  More anon.

Ranagulzion 30 Oct 2011 8:58 PM

I'm just getting tired of seeing always news races, soon we'll have 3 weeks of Breeders' Cup days with 100 races

And for what? Is there any reason to do that except to gain more money by having more entries and more betting?? By keeping adding races, you had chances for horses to dogde themself. Just for the 2YO, we have the Juvenile, the Juvenile turf, the juvenile sprint...if you have 2 big 2YO and each won a different BC races, how do you decide which one is the Champon 2 YO? BC used to be the day where we could decide who's the best. It was fun before, you saw many really good horses in the year and you knew there was a good chance they'll meet up in the BC....now they have all the chances in the world to dodge themself just to be call a BC'S winner the ''easy'' way.

What's next? A 1 1/8 race for horse who are scared of the classic and the dirt mile horses? After we can add a 1 3/16 dirt race too

Katie L. 30 Oct 2011 9:31 PM

There are only 2 horses that can possibly win the BC Classic this year. Unless the field changes before Saturday... I was pretty much sold on Havre de Grace winning the race until I was on the backside this morning and saw Flat Out in person working. All I can say is wow! The last time I saw a work at Churchill Downs that solid was Smarty Jones right before the KY Derby. When I saw him breeze I told my friend looks like they are running for second and I am now thinking the same thing about the Classic this year. It was super impressive! I still think HDG has a big shot in the race and I would love to see her win it for Larry Jones and Rick Porter (Eight Belles). I will be ending all my Pick 3 as well a Pick 4 wagers with those two horses. Good luck to everyone at the windows!

furlongs 30 Oct 2011 10:49 PM

One last thing on the Classic. I will take a chance and let the Euro shipper beat me. I know he is without a doubt a 1 1/4 horse and is a multiple Group 1 winner at that distance but history says he is up against it. I will be treating him just as I am Uncle Mo if he beats me cudos to him... good luck everyone!!

furlongs 30 Oct 2011 10:53 PM

Good lord I have heard of some sorry losers at the track before but wow Draynay... drop it for real!! Why are you worried about last year?? Its over with, are you that mad that you were wrong about that mare?? She ran she lost but guess what she got beat by a really nice horse and she beat every horse in the 2010 Breeders Cup Classic she looked like she could beat on paper. Wonder how many people will remember Blame 15 years from now?? Bet there will still be talk from Zenyatta's fans about her and what they think of her. I mean the only time I ever bet Zenyatta to win was in the 2009 Classic and I thought it was like stealing that day agaisnt that bunch but just let it go!! Your like a mad 3 year old when its parents is trying to take away a cookie! Wow what a cry baby for real!

furlongs 31 Oct 2011 1:20 AM

Dr. D

It wasn't a speed display but it was a typical Pletcher final pre-race work. It was done in 1.01.18, those were what first reports read. It was slower than the speed displays he has been giving, but Pletcher has been wanting him to have easy 5/8ths and not a bullet. It shows that he is a relaxed and happy horse to me. Anyone who was expecting a break out speedster work, this close to the Classic was going to be disappointed and I think that is what happened.

DeadHeatDebates 31 Oct 2011 7:50 AM

Biscuit she wasn't even the best mare.  Goldikova was.  Unlike Zenyatta Goldikova was able to get it done in the BC.  Based on your logic Rinterval, St Trinians and Switch should all have dominated their competition this year since they came just a head short of beating the greatest (I can't keep a straight face) horse last year.  Let's look at their records.  Oh, they didn't accomplish a thing.  What a shock.  Simpleton.

Sylvester 31 Oct 2011 8:23 AM

It's a shame that the BC isn't at Belmont Park this year. We could have sleigh rides, jockey snow ball fights, and pulling carts of Budweiser races.

Dr Drunkinbum 31 Oct 2011 9:05 AM

DRAYNO....the worst hoy was Rachel who was a product of marketing....

a hoy career wise never won at 10 furlongs and never even entered one open Grade 1 ten furlongs race...

imagine that....she can be compared to Favorite Trick...hahahahahahahaha

chucky 31 Oct 2011 2:00 PM

Draynay, stop picking milers to win the Classic who finish last, then you won't be so angry at horses who run good like Zenyatta did. She didn't even win and you're still so angry a year later because she finished great and your horse was dead last. When uncle mo finishes last, if he even makes it to the race, you'll be trashing the top finishers. Pick a horse who has a real shot to win or at least hit the board  so you won't be so angry afterwards. Go with Flat Out, he looks good. I'm sticking with Stay Thirsty.

JJW 31 Oct 2011 2:30 PM

THS drew outside of UM you can cross him off your ticket.  Uncle Mo will follow GOD and let him do the work.  Uncle Mo will go off at 9 to 5 and whip this bunch and earn HOY !!!

Draynay 31 Oct 2011 2:45 PM

Future's Odds of Bob Baffert getting the one hole in the 2012 Kentucky Derby are even odds.

Dr Drunkinbum 31 Oct 2011 2:46 PM

Furlong when it was all said and done I picked Nehro to win the Derby.  Where did your horse finish ?  That's what I thought.

Draynay 31 Oct 2011 2:49 PM

DeadHeatDebates

  I have to assume that you are correct. I'll see how he looks pre-race. Mo is one that looks good when he runs well. He looked like hell before the Wood. The restraint and an easy workout is really what they wanted for his final workout. My only concern with Mo is that he might not have been galloped far enough or gotten as much as he should out of them, but with his stride and talent and ability to easily click off strong fractions I have faith that he can pull off a strong 10f run and at least finish in the top three. He and Flat Out are the top two to me and both are tremendous comeback stories. I'm throwing in two that I think will close strong for the tri and exacta box. Drosselmeyer and Ruler On Ice. of course that means leaving out Havre and So You Think. I have no idea what So You Think will do but my feeling is that he won't handle the dirt well enough, and Havre has never faced the kind of pressure she'll be facing. There are a few others that have a shot but I think the competition is a bit too stiff for them. Game On Dude is tough but I'm not too sure that he'll take to the CD dirt as well either. Flat Out showed in his workout that he likes it there. Mo showed in the juvy he likes the track. I'll probably stick with my top four no matter what. It's basically a done deal for me in the Classic.

Dr Drunkinbum 31 Oct 2011 4:21 PM

And Ruler On Ice WPS

Dr Drunkinbum 31 Oct 2011 4:38 PM

Sylvester, you're joking right? Are you seriously comparing Goldikova to Zenyatta? One is a turf miler and the other is a dirt/synthetic mare that wins from 8.5 to 10 furlongs. Yes, Goldikova got it done on Breeders Cup day, but against the same exact horse Zenyatta beat in the 2009 Breeders Cup, except in 2009 he was in peak form. And I'm not sure what YOUR logic is when it comes to the mares you listed. Margin of victory is not indicative of how hard the race was to win. Zenyatta toyed with her competition and did all she had to do to win. She beat "weak" horses by small margins occasionally, but somehow dusted her competitors in the 09 Classic. Everyone talked about how weak her competition was in 2009, yet the horse she toyed with all year went on to dominate the Breeders Cup Distaff. She was obviously capable of beating great horses, how can you blame everyone for ducking her in 2010? Isn't it strange that every race Zenyatta ran in last year were filled with grade 1 winners, champions, including the future Horse of the Year? Hmmm, very strange! Nobody bashed The Bid when nobody showed up for the 1980 Woodward. You Zenyatta detractors all seem to conveniently forget about all the great things she did, and only focus on the negatives. If I wanted to, I could make Secretariat look like a creampuff by simply ignoring certain pieces of information and focusing only on the one's that justify my argument. Any objective person knows that Zenyatta was an all time great. I would lump Goldikova into that category but she is both a surface AND a distance specialist.

Stevebiscuit 31 Oct 2011 6:04 PM

What a pathetic excuse for a Breeders Cup Classic! The favorite is no more than an overrated grade 2 miler! Seriously?! I'd take Havre De Grace at 5-1, but 3-1? No thanks. The horse to beat is Flat Out. He's the best of this group at a mile and a quarter and he actually offers some value. Better start rehearsing those excuses Draynay!

Stevebiscuit 31 Oct 2011 6:11 PM

Draynay-

LOL you picked a horse that could qualify for a non winners of 1 allow race in the KY Derby!! LOL god your worse then I ever thought! WOW at least pick a horse that has won a stakes race... You continue to open your mouth and when you do you show how bad a handicapper you really are! Oh by the way that horse still qualifies for those conditions today! You got beat by another turf/syth horse in the KY Derby as well just like Zenyatta beat you all 20 times she ran!! LOL got to love it!! BTW I didnt play any horse to win in the WORSE KY Derby field including Mine that Bird's Derby. I did play Ex's trying to go for a score as well as ended pick 3's and pick 4's using some horses. In the end I didnt cash any tickets in the KY Derby this year. But I would never end a pick 3 and pick 4 on a horse that HAD NO CHANCE TO win the Derby when he could run still for the n1x allow condition on any card in America!! WOW you really know nothing about the KY Derby as well as the Breeders Cup do you???

furlongs 31 Oct 2011 6:20 PM

BTW Draynay-

You picked Nehro cause the horse you been on al year didnt make it "Mr triple crown winner MO" and the wise guy horse was Nehro and he was way overbet which is what you love to do when you dont who to bet cause there is no 9-5 or less looking you in the eye. So you went with the horse that was getting all the play. Your the biggest chalk better on these blogs and second place is not even close to you. ANY TIME you want to post your Breeders Cup pick vs mine please feel free... oh yeah BEFORE the races are ran we all know how you love to tell everyone your a winner after the results are posted!! lol

furlongs 31 Oct 2011 6:23 PM

Drayno...Uncle Mo will be shut out off the first turn with all the speed..and he would be looking at big butts ahead of him for the first time in his career and he would go "WTF?, where da f did all these horses come from?"...Have at it Grace will also be looking at a big field and when she gets to the end of the far turn there would be plenty of horses ahead of her and be force to go outside....she is no Zenyatta....if Blind Luck swallowed her at 9 furlongs what makes you think she would be there at 10 furlongs?....

chucky 31 Oct 2011 6:33 PM

Dr. D. & Coldfacts,

I watched Mo's work, not impressive but I would not call it lethargic either.  I think this is just typical Todd pre-race mundane workout, that's all.  That's what they intended.  From a visual stand point I agree it was not impressive, very lackluster, and slow, but that may be just what they wanted so I am not worried yet.  Now, Flat Out went all out in his workout, looked like a freight train and the perception of his workout was that is was great.  I just hope his feet are ok after it since he has had foot issues.  Game On Dude had an impressive work at Santa Anita in a lot of company and did very well with Speedy Bob looking on.  Stay Thirsty's work was better than Mo's I have to say.  Johnny V had to take a private plane to get to Mo for his workout due to the terrible weather we had here on Saturday.  Mo looks physically great so maybe it was just a work to keep fit, just a maintenance work, at least this is what I am trying to convince myself of.

Alex'sBigFan 31 Oct 2011 7:41 PM

Jason.  I'm right with you on Turbulent Descent.  Her last 2 works says she's ready.  Your not worried about the 90 day lay off?  We know she can travel.  

Householder 31 Oct 2011 7:54 PM

DRAYNAY

Bet THAS finishes ahead of Mo.

Mike Relva 31 Oct 2011 7:55 PM

SYLVESTER

Please use your many spins when Grace loses, ok?

Mike Relva 31 Oct 2011 8:00 PM

New blog tomorrow. Happy cappin'!

Jason Shandler 31 Oct 2011 8:02 PM

DRAYNAY

Funny like someone told you you can't seem to get Zenyatta out of your thoughts when it's been a year. Tell us what your excuses will be after Mo loses?

Mike Relva 31 Oct 2011 8:03 PM

Alex'sBigFan

   Thanks. If Mo still looks physically great then the workout time means nothing, and is perfect actually. And since he looks great the term "lethargic" could not possibly be correct. 6-1 ML is a big overlay on Flat Out since I would of had him at 3-1 and he should have been no higher than 9-2. We'll see what he ends up at but 6-1 would be hard to resist for a win bet. Great race if you ask me. Fascinating unknowns for a couple of great ones-Mo and So You Think and the pace will be fast and interesting to see how they are lined up at the 6f mark and just how fast it will be at that point. Most have never faced the pressure they'll be facing in this one. Have fun.

Dr Drunkinbum 31 Oct 2011 8:56 PM

I am canceling the statement flat out will go off form....im not sure about him.

KY VET 31 Oct 2011 11:29 PM

I have MADE MY SELECTIONS for both days......a couple thoughts.....worst morning line= 7/2 on jackson bend? yea sure....worst race=5f turf on sat. these horses suck! worst decision=bob baffert . the factor shouldve run in sprint...

KY VET 31 Oct 2011 11:35 PM

Take Charge Indy at 30-1? Oh yes, I am a happy camper!

Love his mom, love his tail-female line is Swaps, his whole demeanor...love he's gonna move up on dirt and can't wait for him next year.

I hope he and UR have an Affirmed/Alydar type of rivalry!

Rachel NH 01 Nov 2011 8:30 AM

something is wrong with MO. He did not go to the track this morning.

Billy's Empire 01 Nov 2011 8:51 AM

Took my first look at the PP's.  I think Uncle Mo is a fabulous horse but I just can't see it happening in the Classic.  Has a horse ever won the Classic with as little of a preparation for 10 furlongs as Mo is trying?  How does he possibly have the base to win this race?

I will be looking at Flat Out, Game on Dude, and Havre de Grace as true contenders in the Classic.  Will also consider To Honor and Serve, Stay Thirsty and So You Think and possibly Drosselmeyer (but on for an exotic piece).

2:24 01 Nov 2011 10:06 AM

Interesting ODDS that I like

Alpha 15-1

Game on Dude 10-1

Strong Suit 10-1

Take Charge INdy 30-1

Tapizar 20-1

Broken Dreams 20-1

Brigatin 8-1

Misty For Me 10-1

Miss Netta 15-1

Stepahanies Kitten 12-1

What is up with the Fillies being favorite's in the BC Turf. Both Midday and Sarafina. No US based horse under 10-1? St Nic abbey is 9-2.

Billy's Empire 01 Nov 2011 10:43 AM

Last year at churchill Downs Breeders' Cup the Exacta payout averaged $176, the Trifecta averaged $1,394 and the Superfecta averaged a whopping $10,993!

In the past 10 years of the Breeders' Cup;

the average Exacta paid ............... $263

the average Trifecta paid ........... $3,026

the average Superfecta paid ..... $27,513

Since 2002, this is the avg p3 payout, the max payout, and the min payout

2002

 $      1,432.00

 $      4,651.20

 $          361.60

2003

 $      2,507.38

 $      4,441.20

 $          759.00

2004

 $      2,791.13

 $      9,884.20

 $          474.00

2005

 $      2,100.83

 $      4,280.00

 $          252.00

2006

 $      4,379.23

 $      9,933.80

 $          384.00

2007

 $          530.97

 $      1,149.80

 $          332.80

2008

 $      1,591.64

 $    10,522.20

 $            52.60

2009

 $      2,947.42

 $    13,503.00

 $          352.40

this year we have the .50 cent p3, so if you catch a bomb, you can make great money on a $13.50 bet. 3x3x3

Billy's Empire 01 Nov 2011 11:05 AM

ok furlong here are my picks in the mile Wilburn in the sprint jackson bend in the classic uncle mo !  show us your picks and see if they top my 3 picks.

Draynay 01 Nov 2011 11:13 AM

Billy, I wasn't impressed with Mo in his work, just something....

Jason do you still have an in with Repole or is that no longer the case?  

Though I doubt, knowing Todd quite well, he'll show his hand to anyone. On the other hand Repole sometimes is a loose cannon.

Skip 01 Nov 2011 1:37 PM

Billy- Sarafina should be favored.  If she runs her race she won't be beat. I can see a case for St Nicholas Abbey over Midday but the American public knows her name. Sea Moon is up and coming but not as accomplished as those three.  Same for Await the Dawn, but he will get bet because of Leparoux.

Footlick 01 Nov 2011 1:56 PM

Billy's Empire -

Maybe they figured out that Stay Thirsty and Mo cannot run as a tag team. LMFAO!!!!!

or somebody told them that the classic is ACTUALLY 10 FURLONGS...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

chucky 01 Nov 2011 2:48 PM

HRTV reported this A.M. that Mo would only "walk" today and would not gallop again until Wednesday.

Karen in Texas 01 Nov 2011 3:06 PM

UM another pace setter/filler for the Bclassic...wooo hoooo

chucky 01 Nov 2011 4:12 PM

Don't be surprised if Uncle Mo finishes dead last Draynay. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he did. He simply doesn't have the preparation or the talent to make a splash in this race. Todd Pletcher is once again displaying his incompetence for the entire racing world to see. First he ruins Life At Ten, now he's going to destroy whatever was left of Uncle Mo. True horsemen do what's right by the horse, they don't let their egos dictate their decisions.

Stevebiscuit 01 Nov 2011 10:56 PM

draynay

so do i have to pick horses in those races? list your top horse in each race and i will follow up with my top horse in each race. btw if you want to leave out the marathon race that is fine cause its a dumb race and should not be part of the BC card as far as I am concerned. total waste of time if you ask me!! lol

furlongs 02 Nov 2011 1:21 AM

Stevebiscuit- I'm not sure the Classic would have been Pletcher's first choice.  He seems like a fairly conservative trainer, so to me if it was his choice UM would be in the Mile and point for the BCC next year.  JMO.  Jason would know more and may tell me I'm wrong, lol.

Footlick 02 Nov 2011 9:27 AM

Draynay,

You are forgetting about every single horse that finished behind Zenyatta in the 2009 and 2010 B.C. Classic. How did Quality Road and Life At Ten run in last years B.C. races? You might be the only person in the universe who would claim Zenyatta to be a blackeye for horse racing. When in reality, Zenyatta is a dream horse who was a gift to horse racing.

Chucky,

Yes Blind Luck won twice at 10 furlongs against Havre de Grace. It should be clear to anyone with eyes that Havre de Grace is improving and Blind Luck is possibly retired. Havre de Grace will speak for herself on saturday. With Tizway retired, I do believe that Havre de Grace is the best older horse in North America.

Forbidden Apple 02 Nov 2011 10:52 AM

Forbidden Apple,

Grace has improved her time to 9 furlongs but she is still bridesmaid to Blind Luck at 10 furlongs....

Are you saying Blind Luck would be the favorite for the Classic?

You people all get razz up with all the HYPE....

UNCLE MO/Havre de Grace

this two is nothing but fillers for the race...rabbits for the mid-pack and closers....

chucky 02 Nov 2011 12:03 PM

DRAYNAY

Forbidden Apple is correct. Having said that if you're too dense to admit what a great horse Zenyatta is then you don't know anything about racing. Who carries more weight regarding Zenyatta's greatness your biased rants or great trainers and writers saying she's once in a lifetime?

Mike Relva 02 Nov 2011 4:37 PM

I am saying that Havre de Grace is ready to run another monster race. Losing by a nose at Delaware is far from disgraceful. Blind Luck is not running, move on.

It's funny how KY Vet now says that Flat Out might not bounce. Which is it man? Since his last workout, I have moved Flat Out up to my second pick behind Havre de Grace. But of course I will be boxing my exacta just like last year with Zenyatta and Blame. Flat Out loves the distance and always runs hard.

Forbidden Apple 02 Nov 2011 7:35 PM

Footlick:  Thanks, but I think there has to be more to Nathaniel's absence than the lack of soft ground.  Gosden loves coming for the BC and already won it with Raven's Pass...and Nathaniel might be his top horse.

Wasn't Dray touting QR last year as the beast from the East who was going to take the Classic?  Was that 12th place finish an example?  Why does anyone pay attention to the chalk outline?  Every year it marks the spot where Dray lost all his money.  Who would even bet on a single favorite when the exotics are much more fruitful?

And I might say, "Leave the training methods to the trainers." if we hadn't experienced last year's fiascos with QR and Life At Ten. Maybe they're not always right.

Been watching the workouts, and some have been very impressive...

..but it's what the horses will do in the afternoon that will impress me most.

Slew 03 Nov 2011 9:48 AM

Slew, I lost 400 bucks on Quality Road but won 2600 betting suckers that The Restricted Poly State Champion would get whipped over and over again and still LOSE.  I collected every dollar except 100 and she didn't pay because she said it was too close.  Yes Quality couldn't run on a track set up for closers but I have a feeling we are going to see a much faster track on Saturday and when Mo wins many are going to BLAME the track for his win.

Draynay 03 Nov 2011 4:13 PM

Drayno...I won thousands saying that overrated overhyped Rachel wouldn't even make the parking lot to the 2010 BCC at CD.....give me a break already....

chucky 03 Nov 2011 5:03 PM

Sure Chucky, back to dungeons and dragons for you!

Draynay 03 Nov 2011 6:48 PM

Drayno, you own D&D, as far as getting whip, the big mare didn't even feel that feather but I bet that lil gurl Rachel had welts after the pounding she got from Borel in that pitiful grade 3 Woodward.....

chucky 04 Nov 2011 12:37 AM

Yawn.  Rachel whipped that horse for HOY and I loved it.

Draynay 04 Nov 2011 10:54 AM

Drayno, the only thing Rachel whip is you SAPS...hahahahahaha

chucky 04 Nov 2011 11:56 AM


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