Thank you for saying what I have been thinking for a while. I totally agree with this blogger. I believe RA is a fine filly who very well may turn out to be the next great gal in our sport, but please wait till she beats someone of some kind of proven quaility to crown her queen. And lets not forget TaWee and Shuvee and of course Ruffian. (and maybe still Zenyatta)

Rachel has so much potential, but at this point she's won just one Grade 1.

In my lifetime, I thought Ruffian, Genuine Risk and Dance Smartly were most impressive. Frankly, I think Dance Smartly is seriously underated. She was tremendous.

Good point, Becky.  We tend to get all goo goo over the latest superstar and are quick to call him or her the greatest, but you named a list of legendary performers which would certainly offer Rachel a run for her money.  All we know right now is that she is very good.  Personally, I'd like to see her and Zenyatta hook up later on this year. That would be interesting.

Until a few days ago, I felt RA could be the female version of Secretariat. But learning she's already been operated on for an injury changes that. Yes, she's raced strong since, but for how long, especially when she is pushed running against males?

Well said.  Amen !

Becky,

Earlier this year I was proclaiming Stardom Bound to be the greatest of all. I'm now on the Rachael Alexandra bandwagon. Tomorrow who knows? I'm a typical fan I guess, my opinion changes as quickly as the weather. I'm entitled to that aren't I?

I believe Rachel Alexandra has the potential to become one of the greatest. But, the greatest? She has a lot of big hooves to fill before carrying that honor.

Without a doubt the two greatest fillies of all-time were Busher and Ta Wee. Busher getting a bump over Ta Wee.  First off how many mares can beat the boys? Not many.  How many can beat them NUMEROUS times and beat the HORSE OF THE YEAR AS A 3 YR OLD.  Busher wins no contest.  Ta Wee gets up for second with her unbelieveable carrying of weight sometimes up to 140 lbs most horses, almost all actually founder under 130 lbs or less this horse just kept going and going and going and she was a pint size little girl.  I have yet to see a mare that has come close to these two. They race on two different racetracks.  Don't get me wrong Rachel Alexandra is a good horse but she has beaten nothing.  She must first beat the boys and then must carry weight.  Horses nowadays are given too much slack "Rachel" isn't even in the running for greatest filly not a chance.  She must prove it first then I will be more inclined to say she is.  As for Ruffian - THE MOST OVERRATED RACEHORSE OF ALL-TIME.  She carried little weight over very few racetracks beating the same rivals again and again, yes she did have brilliant speed but brilliant speed must be shown against males and underweight both of which never happened and I know it is not her fault but still anyone who mentions her in the Top 10 Greatest of All-Time is absolutely yearning for an earfull from me.  Horses must prove their worth before they can even mentioned great.  Busher #1, Ta Wee #2 Greatest Fillies of All-Time.

Greatest Filly?

Recent time, Zarkava, of course. Winner of the 'Arc and European Horse of the Year.

No horse, mail or  female, could have beat her last year.

DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE GREAT MARE BELDAME!!  ALSO PERSONAL ENSIGN BEAT A DERBY WINNER AND DID IT ON AN OFF TRACK WITH FIVE SCREWS HOLDING A BACK LEG TOGETHER.

PERSONAL ENSIGN ALSO WENT UNDEFEATED IN ALL STARTS.

Rachel Alexandra (who I love) is a "potentially" great race horse...but she will have to go a ways, including racing older mares and the boys, to be in the ranks of the greats I've seen in my life: the incredible, indesrcibable Ruffian, my favorite Go for Wand, Lady's Secret, Bayakoa, Chilukki, the great Azeri, XTRA HEAT!(She's ON FIRE!) Personal Ensign(UNDEFEATED), Makybe Diva, Susan's Girl, Shuvee, Davona Dale, Spain, Rags to Riches, Take Charge Lady, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, ...

Yeah, she's a super filly who one day may top all these gals, but she's got some work cut out for her to be GREAT..

Ah...a great list of fillies and mares. Rachel Alexandra is a lovely filly, and I sure don't want to disrespect her in any way. But she's not up with the all-time greats yet.

Just in my lifetime, I've been privileged to see (either in person or on TV) some remarkable fillies and mares. Lamb Chop, Bowl of Flowers, Cicada, Ta Wee, Affectionately, Shuvee, Dark Mirage, Bayakoa, Genuine Risk, Lady's Secret, Winning Colors, Ruffian, Dahlia, and Susan's Girl, to name just a very few.

Royal Heroine is one mare who's always had a special place in my heart due to her remarkable courage. I was at Santa Anita on a March day in 1984, watching the Santa Ana Handicap. As the horses headed into the club house turn, High Haven fractured her left front canon bone and collapsed. Sweet Diane and Royal Heroine both fell over her in one of the worst spills I've personally ever witnessed. Sweet Diane broke her neck and died. High Haven was euthanized on the track. Royal Heroine survived. Later that year she won the first Breeders' Cup Mile and was named Champion Turf Mare. She beat colts several times during her career, and won Grade/Group 1 races both in the U.S. and France.

Of course, that's just thinking of fillies and mares in my lifetime. Kinscem was perhaps the greatest race mare ever. In the U.S., Beldame, Top Flight, Twilight Tear, Gallorette and Busher were all before my time, but are among the greatest of all time.

Rachel Alexander is undoubtedly a very good filly.  However, the recent KY Oaks was the worst field I have ever seen in the last 30 years.  It was composed soley of Maiden winners including a three horse group from Wayne Lucas.  It was token competition and certainly not worthy of Grade I status. JWD (the only potential competition) was a late scratch.  No surprise that RA won by such a large amount.

That being said, it was not her fault the race was so weak. I would like to see her face older mares and the boys at some point, but I do not think she should run in the Preakness - she should maybe wait for the Belnont or some of the Grade Is later this Summer.

Ruffian.........was perfection. She either equalled or broke a track record in every race. I am old enough to have watched her race live. No other filly is in her class. Even in that fateful match race against Foolish Pleasure, she broke down on the lead. Many great fillies since her, but none equal.

Why is it that everyone is so eager to make such a ludicrous proclamation after a horse wins one single race like this? Why is it no one can just wait and see what actually does transpire before labeling any horse as "best" anything? So why stop at just the last 25 years if Rachel Alexandra is being said to be the "best ever"? Why not be all inclusive? She's not the "best ever" - it's a bunch of media driven hype. It may turn out that the fillies behind Rachel Alexandra are just a mediocre bunch, which is what you have to conclude of the fillies that were chasing two other legends: Ruffian and Davona Dale. Rachel Alexandra is a long, long way from a horse like Personal Ensign, who had to run down The Kentucky Derby winner (another female, no less) twice in the same year to retire unbeaten over three seasons, and all of that with 5 screws in her leg holding it together.

Let's wait and see what Rachel Alexandra does accomplish before making pronouncements on her abilities based on what she might accomplish. Until then, let's save the hype for those that genuinely earned the distinction.

      Ithink RA is extremely talented but, she neend to beat the boys first! The Belmont when Rags to Riches beat Curlin proves that RTR deserves more credit !

YES. IT´S TOO SOON TO SAY THAT RACHEL IS THE BEST EVER. EVEN MORE WITH A MONSTER BEHIND EVERY FILLY OR MARE, LIKE THE LEGENDARY RUFFIAN. ¿THE BEST EVER? WELL, IT´S A VERY SUBJECTIVE TERM IN THE SPORTS. HOW CAN YOU DEFINE  SECRETARIAT WAS BETTER THAN MAN O´WAR, FOR EXAMPLE. NOBODY KNOWS THAT BECAUSE THERE´S NO A RULE TO ASSURE IT. SECRETARIAT WAS THE BEST  OF HIS TIME, AS WAS MAN O´WAR IN THE EARLY 20´S. AND CITATION IN 1948, SEATTLE SLEW IN 1977 AND 1978, AND THEN ALYSHEBA, SUNDAY SILENCE, CIGAR, HOLY BULL, CURLIN, ETC.

Vic, Ear-full all you want. I've been in the the game over 50 years and had the privilege to see the two brilliant fillies you mentioned - Busher & Ta Wee and they are certainly considered among the best. However,to profess Ruffian the most overrated racehorse of all-time is utterly ludicrous. Ten races from 5 1/2 to 1 1/2,setting stakes records eight times and equalling track records on two other occasions - overrated?

Frank Whiteley termed her the best racehorse he ever trained (not just filly), Lucian Lauren freely admitted she may have been better than the immortal Secretariat, Woody Stevens said she was clearly the best filly he had ever seen.

Considering her 35th ranking by Bloodhorse of the greatest thoroughbreds of alltime, I'd imagine your earfull should be most enlightning. Your welcome to your opinion but for heavensakes get a grip.

Hi Becky,

Surely RA is at the early stage of her career, but it seems she not only wins effortlessly, but has done so at several venues and can handle any surface slpy or fast.  What makes her so amazing is her effortless way of going, she's not really been asked yet, and that that she has not been really tested by those that have faced her, and that she has devoured every field.

Your point is well taken though, and she hasn't yet reached the pinnicle of her career, and has yet to face any fillies that can match her, and it was sure sad to see Justwhistledixie have to scratch from the Oaks, or maybe that would have been answered already.

Surely Go For Wand was one of the best (I happened to take care of her dam, Obeah, as a yearling, so I am too similarly prejudiced).  Also there was Ruffian, and as yet RA has not crossed paths with Zenyatta.

So I guess we're all hoping that Rachel Alexandra will eventually surpass the test - and for the sport and fans let's hope so.

Good points.

Somebody, maybe Damon Runyon, once said that the great horses have to prove themselves in 1 of 2 ways, either against competition that pushes them to show their best, or, if none are available, against the clock.  On Oaks day, RA thrashed the competition and with no urging to speak of came awfully close to the stakes and track record.

You're absolutely right - we need to see what RA does over time.  She is, after all, early in her 3 year old campaign.  We are desperate for good horses so we've seized onto her.

Can she beat Stardom Bound?  I think so.  Can she beat Zenyatta?  mmmmmmm - maybe.  Can she beat the boys?  Can she beat GOOD boys?   Can she carry weight?  I never saw Busher run except on film but I certainly remember Ta Wee.  She really was tremendous.

How great it is to look forward to a fun-filled year - may they all stay healthy!

May I say, M'am, that you are a very sharp observer.

Our longing (for a great horse) truly 'o'er leaps itself & falls to the other.'

Go for Wand: Requiescat in pace.

There's some of us that can see something in a horse that runs reguardless of who they beat that others can't see. For those of you that can't see that, your the one's second guessing her greatness. We haven't seen the tip of the iceberg my friends, thats yet to come. However I'm sure you doubters will jump on the bandwagen later.

It's good to see that somebody in the racing world forms their opinons based on fact.

On HRTV one of the talking heads likened Rachel's Oaks win to Secretariat's Belmont.  Never mind that Secretariat accomplished his feat in the third leg of the grueling Triple Crown.  Never mind that he did the first 3/4 of a mile in 1:09 and change in a 1-1/2 mile race.  Never mind that for the first half of the race he battled with Sham, a Grade 1 winner and the only other horse for decades to run a sub 2 minute Derby.  

Nope, none of those facts matter.  Rachel and Secretariat are on the same level now because she romped over glorified allowance fillies.

Those who think Rachel should now be crowned the 2nd coming of greatness would be wise to remember Bellamy Road's 17-1/2 length romp in the 2005 Wood Memorial.  

How can you say Ruffian is supeior to Busher and TaWee? Did she beat males? No. Did she carry weight no? I know its not her fault and I'm not holding that against her.  I'm saying is you must have proof of greatest before you can profess it upon the horse.  BUSHER beat ARMED who was older and horse of the year. Ruffian beat mediocre fillies in a time when stakes and track records were being broken YEARLY.  Put Ruffian in a race agaisnt the 10 Greatest Fillies of All-time she will NOT WIN.  Put her against the the 10 greatest racehorses of all-time shes finishes last PLAIN AND SIMPLE.  By the way Frank Whitely before he tied declared that DAMASCUS was the greatest horse he ever trained, Ruffian followers would like to think differently especially when the man was pressured continuously to answer the question after his great horses had left the track you have to be kidding yourself if you think Ruffian is a superior animal to the likes of Forego and Damascus.

WE CAN NOT COMPARE RACHEL ALEXANDRA TO THE LIKE OF RUFFIAN, PERSONAL ENSIGN, LADY SECRET. LETS JUST WAIT WHEN HE SADDLED AGAINST THE BOYS IN PREAKNESS AND/OR THE NEXT SUMMER AND FALL RACES. WE MIGHT SEE HER RUNNING AGAINST THE BOYS IN BREEDERS' CUP CLASSIC.

I agree that RA has to prove herself as great,greatest whatever. However, at this stage it is hard to argue that it's NOT only a matter of time before she does. I can't remember the last time I saw such a dominating performance.I'm not by any means trying to compare her to Big Red (the horse) but as far as dominating a race it comes pretty close.

I can't even comment about Ruffian being "overated".

Thanks for such a great reminder of the filly and mare greats in this sport.  We've been given several greats...and we need more! Rachel Alexandra, while not yet hurdeling all the many eternal details people have for her to genuinely qualify as great, I believe what has us all excited is her stature, her ease, her love to run and run fast, her confidence, her clearly untapped abilities, and ALL the potential and dreams we feel when we witness this. This "AWE" is not unwarrented. Without a whole list of facts sitting in front of me, I find myself hoping she is given every opportunity to realize her full poential, and that her full potential sums up to be GREAT!  If all goes well and she stays healthy I sense she is a filly for the ages!  Let's see what happens.  She now stands a chance to realize her full potential with Jess Jackson.  I just hope he keeps Boral on her.  The two of them bring the combination of great talent, an potent kind of innocense, and a big dose of magic.  I know these are not the "facts" most people gravitate to, but if you look closely these intangible qualities stare you in the face.

My thoughts and the fillies I mentioned were based on two principles 1)What they did as a three year old and 2)They raced in the last 25 years.  So that excluded a lot of great three-year-old fillies that raced prior to the last quarter century and while I agree that Personal Ensign and Zenyatta have/had outrageous talent, they really showed their stuff as four-year-olds so I didn't think it would be fair to compare RA to either of them.  As far as Winning Colors goes, she could be brilliant at times, but she could also be inconsistent and she certainly appreciated a race that set up for her front running style, but on those occasions she was breathtaking.

Miesque in my mine pick as the greatest filly or mare. She beat the boys twice in the Turf Mile.

dont count rags to riches Belmont win as anything  good<They ran very slow in that race as all belmont are these days <did she even run a 2:28.00 in that race.final time is a big part of being great.

I think the problem is adding the ending to the word (est). Why does she has to be the greatEST. Why can't we just say she is great?

I think she could be one of the greatest and today's announcement by a crafty, veteran jockey should speak volumes to her doubters. She isn't the greatest, not yet, maybe  never, but then never before has a jockey given up the mount on a KY Derby winner in the Preakness.

RA has already experienced a surgery?  Not good.

Hopefully, she sticks with the fillies.  what is wrong with that?

RA and Zenyatta, now there's a race.

Well, "Rachel" is a very good filly, she might become known as a great filly, but the plan appears for her to become a great broodmare via "Curlin."

Calvin Borel appears to believe in her greatness as she is his pick for the Preakness. I don't know of many jockeys who have gone on to become great handicappers - so - when the Belmont approaches, I for one am thinking/hoping that we have a horse this year who will be going for the Triple Crown.

Do jockeys negotiate fees? Or is it a flat rate? Can they earn a fixed amount and a percentage of any winnings?

Rachel Alexandra has won effortlessly because she has beaten no one. That Oaks field was one of the worst I can ever remember, even if she scared some decent fillies away. Imagine if Silverbulletday was in that race...she would have run RA into the ground.

There is NO way she wins the Preakness.

It remains to be seen if running in the Preakness will shorten RA's career. Excellent Meeting, the last filly to be favored in the Preakness; Silverbulletday, overmatched in the Belmont; Rags to Riches, who at least had a big win in the Belmont--none of these fillies were ever as good again after these Triple Crown races. Neither Genuine Risk nor Winning Colors was as consistently good after the grind of all three Triple Crown races. If RA can outduel Big Drama or Take the Points on the front end and then hold off the closers, more power to her, but I suspect her new connections are significantly shortening her career.

SHOULD be a good preakness with her in it.HOWEVER SHE JUST ANOTHER CONTENDER>SHE WILL BE FAVORED INSPITE OF FACT BIG DRAMA IS PAPER FAST<EVERYBODY THAT RAN ON FLORIDA DERBY DAY HAS DONE NOTHING>THE KENTUCKY DERBY WINNER IS STILL INSPITE OF GREAT CLOSE<I"LL TAKE GENERAL QUARTERS TO WIN

To Blue Blue Sea:  Today's announcement by Borel proves nothing to those who believe RA still has much to prove.  Borel's great on the Churchill rail but not so much at other tracks.  I personally think Jeremy Rose will mop the floor with Borel at Pimlico.  

On a different note, the general public does not care about filly vs. colts races as TV ratings for the Rags Belmont show.  And now that Borel has chosen Rachel, if MTB loses the Preakness, people will think he lost because the jockey who understood him was stolen away by some rich guy.  

So once again the racing "elite" are making a huge PR blunder.  And really, can racing afford to take any chance at all on another Eight Belles?      

I love Rachel Alexandra-I don't think she has to beat the boys (though it would help) to be considered the all time great filly....but she does have alot more to do before you can put her with the likes of Go For Wand or Ruffian.  And she certainly has to face the  Zenyatta test first!

  I do feel like Zenyatta should be part of this conversation as well, if Rachel Alexandra is.  Zenyattas star rose as a 4 year old, but she is undefeated and rarely had anyone close to her.  I would like to see her run a little more away from home, but she has denied every filly that has come at her...

I disagree Shamanka-I don't think anyone who pays any attention will think the rich guy stole the jockey.  Borel was Rachel Alexandra's jockey before he even knew who Mine That Bird was....You can't "steal" a jockey who has been with that horse practically from the beginning and who has REPEATEDLY said was the best horse he has ever ridden.  

NEwsline2-

 Jockeys get a 10% percent of the winning owners purse.  If the horse doesn't win they get a flat mount fee of about $75 for riding a horse in the race-any race be it allowance or Derby.

1980 KY Derby winner Genuine Risk should have been added to this list. www.bloodhorse.com/.../derby-winner-genuine-risk-dies

at least borel is on a CONTENDER.MINE THAT BIRD IS NOT NOT NOT a contender unless no one can get the distance. go GENERAL QUATERS.

She's running against the boy's my friends, don't like it, don't watch. I know I want to be part of history by watching. This has to be one of the greatest things that has ever happened in horse racing.

Go Rach.! Go Borel!, Go Jess. ! Go Steve ! Make History!!!

One should ponder Twilight Tear.

Sean-

  The Oaks record at 1 1/8 miles is 1:48.64....Rachel Alexandra ran it in 1:48.87 without being asked, and not running full out.  Silverbulletday ran it in 1:49.92.  Now, don't get me wrong, I am not willing to saying RA is better than Silverbulletday.  It is too early to say that.  Just saying that your argument against RA doesn't hold water.

I think what is being forgotten is how effortlessly she beat the fillies that have been thrown at her.  Calvin never moved on her, she did all that in the Oaks by herself.  And she won her previous races just as easily.  That is what is so scary.  Its not her fault that the people with 3yo fillies who are any good are shying away from Rachel, that's the respect a good horse gets.  And make no mistake, she's a good filly.  I'd like to see her headed and see what happens when Calvin actually has to ask her to run.  What scares me if we haven't seen her tested yet and she's this dominent without being asked!  If Carlsbad and Zenyatta and Stardom Bound and Rachel all hook up in the BC Distaff...

Assessing ability versus one's love for a particular horse sometimes clouds your judgement, how can you pick Personal Ensign, undeafeated, over Ruffian, undefeated? I never saw Ruffian in person but I watched every race that was televised. Never headed, never touched with a whip, equaled or set records every time she ran, incredible.

Make a list of all the fillies and mares listed in this blog and you have Some" of the greatest of all time. Time will tell us if Rachel Alexandra belongs on that list.

As for me, I saw Zenyatta in the paddock the day she was honored at Hollywood Park and she took my breath away. Not due to her looks but because of the look in her eyes, I knew I was standing before a great filly.

Shamanka

All I can do is shake my head????

If Florida derby day time means anything,the PETER PAN WINNER will be BRAVE VICTORY.> I GUESS RACH ALEX RAN ON AN HONEST TRACK>DONT HEAR THAT PAVEMENT TALK>

Would have to agree with a few prior posts.  Yes TaWee was the greatest of all time, closely followed by Busher, Gallorette, Dark Mirage & Pan Zareta.  TaWee won with 142 lbs. in her final start.

Yes Ruffian was the most overrated of all time.  For god sake R.A. wins by 20 and beats a bunch on non stakes winners, she was suppose to win by 20. The hype leading up to the Preakness will create some nice betting opportunites betting against her.

Shemanka,

    Agree 100 percent, PR blunder, Plus I believe this is bad for the sport, The little gelding,  Mine that bird w/Borel going for the triple crown was an incredible underdog story, Now, I love Rachel Alexandra, don't get me wrong, but two weeks since the Oaks, New Owner, New trainer, New Barn, and she has to face 13 boys????, Way too much for her, It is all about one thing, Jess Jackson's EGO, I would have been fine if he waited to the Belmont if he wanted to take on the boys, but this is all too much for Rachel Alexandra all at once!, I was fine with the sale, its a business, but I felt terrible for Wiggins, though, He deserves better....

     Friesan Fire will come back from his injuries and take the Preakness, with Mine that Bird second....I Hope...

KEVIN: Mr. Jackson is big on having horses race as older horses. he likes the idea, and i agree with him tremendously. injuries aside, Rach could race till the age of five or more! people bashed him for racing Curlin his 4YO year. not for long... when Curlin made record books in more ways than one. The breeding idea is way in the future. its not like they are saying she'll quit racing at the end of this year...

P.S. And one more who beat males many times in 3 differnt years was the great Tosmah.

Sure, some fillys that have ran against the boys went on to be not much really, but I personally don't think that has anything to do with racing against boys. I think it was more just bad luck as to what happened to them. Who is to say it wouldn't have happened if the race they got injured in was against fillys?.

Just when Horse Racing was starting to get exciting and lift itself back up from dark days, along comes a suspense killer. So the inspiring story of a great underdog race victor is now overshadowed by the supposedly unstoppable filly. Talk about deflating enthusiasm for the Preakness. Who wants to watch a race that has already been called for RA? I was excited about the Preakness but now I don't care. The race is already over, the winner has been crowned and Borel has defected from the Derby winner. To me this just does racing a disservice. Good luck getting Pimlico to sell out and even better luck getting ratings.  

A great filly in our time - Ouija Board!

Rachel Alexandra has only just started her career and hopefully she will be around for many more races. The excitement that is bubbling now is at the thought of a filly that might be good enough to join the ranks of the ones in the blog or perhaps even exceed them.

There were a lot of great fillies in the 80s and 90s, but it seems in recent years they win one or two Grade 1 races then retire. Thankfully Zenyatta has not yet been retired. But we haven't had a filly truly dominate and stamp herself as an all-time great in a while. Azeri did it, but not this young. It is exciting to potentially be at the start of something great. I think this is why people are perhaps overly enthusiastic about Rachel.

I can name 6 that are better than RA, although she is remarkable.

1. Ruffian

2. Personal Ensign

3. Zakarva

4. Zenyatta

5. Silverbulletday

6. Azeri

just to name a few, but Ruffian IMO was the best. Anyway, I think RA still beats the boys and Big Drama comes in second

If you get a chance, track down ZARKAVA's Arc '08 win. Trapped on the inside, the THREE YR OLD FILLY bullied her way through the stretch to beat the best older horses in Europe to remain undefeated. Those same older horses who always come to the STATES and beat our best. Europe's 2nd best 3 yr old FILLY - GOLDIKOVA - was good enough to beat our older males last year.

I agree with you 100%. No doubt she is one of the greats, but until she beats the colts, and Zenyatta I won't say she is the best. People said Stardom Bound was the best filly at the start of the year, and maybe she stil is. RA hasn't run against soome of the other great fillies that are racing right now and to tell the truth, I don't think she has what it takes to beat Zenyatta. When she runs her last race of the year, that is when we'll know if she is the best.

And what about Ruffian? Record breaker, won every race but that match race when she broke down. I say she is the greatest filly that ever set foot on the track.

Dr Fager -

man are you misguided with your information. The oaks did have stakes winners in the field.  Gabby's Golden Gal won her previous race - Sunland Parks Oaks $200,000 purse - by 13 lengths.  Plus, to say that Ruffian was overrated when she went undefeated with multiple track records at multiple distances makes me pity your judgement skills

RA is the best since Lakeway.  Lakeway was the best since Ruffian.   Lakeway set 3 stakes records in 3 grade-1 races as a 3 yr old. In a 4th{SA Oaks} she ran 2nd fastest of all time. The 3 records still stand including 1:46 2/5 in Mother Goose {Ruffian 1:47 4/5} Lakeway ran twice UNDER 1:47 for 1 1/8 mile as 3 yr old something Secretariat, Affirmed or Seattle Slew could not do

Ah Becky, the voice of reason, thanks! :)

I too, think Rachel is possibly--maybe even probably--a star in the making. But she's got a ways to go yet, and the biggest "stumbling block" is that the 3yo filly division this year is weak, to say the least.

Going to the Preakness makes PERFECT sense, IMO, because honestly, who else in her age group does she have to face? I guess out of fairness, you could toss in Justwhistledixie, due to the Oaks SCR...but does anyone think she'd have stood a chance?

But time will tell...should she win the Preakness, all that's left this year to "prove", would be to face her elders of her own gender...which leaves Zenyatta and Life Is Sweet. Since LIS is being kept away from Zenyatta (per their mutual trainer) and pointing towards turf...Rachel doesn't have to worry about her, either.

It's an interesting year, suddenly. After the stunner last Saturday in the Derby, I was feeling pretty done with this whole triple crown series, but it just got very interesting in the last couple of days :)

If nothing more, Rachel congers up memories of proven great fillies (and mares) behind her, many mentioned here, and some who weren't. We don't have the colt this year to stir the imagination...in 2009, it sits with a girl ;)

Aint nothing wrong with that!! Go get that Bird, Rachel...!

Greg J

FF will win the Preakness? I would be less suprised if I wake up tommarrow with my head sewn to the carpet then if FF beats RA.

Draynay where are you?

We have some how lost valuable common sense in these blogs.

RA is going to be among the greats, no doubt about it.  She will see stronger competition now with her new connections, more than likely.  You have to admit, though, she appeared to just cruise around Churchill like it was a morning work- she took the Oaks with such ease it was astounding.  

The best filly in my lifetime has been Azeri, and may the Queen reign long.

I saw " Gabby's Golden Gal won her previous race - Sunland Parks Oaks $200,000 purse - by 13 lengths" but chose to ignore it, it was a $200,000 allowance race at a pig track.  In her race prior to that she got beat at Santa Anita in a non winners of one other than.  As for Ruffian being over rated.  Two others on this blog agreed with me.  If she had not died, she would have met up with Susan's Girl in the fall and been beaten if not before.  The 2009 Ky. Oaks horses who ran 20 plus up the track had to be the worst bunch in that race in 50 years.  She should have won by more than 20.  Winning margin really means vey little, we have all seen races like this all over the country, next time out they run  up the track and people scratch their heads. She may well be GREAT, but she has a very long way to go to get there.

ZARKAVA FAN!,

    Here is the race you were talking about, All I can say is, WOW, what a race, she had no where to go, Very Impressive....Thanks...

www.youtube.com/watch

TO Stanley Marcinkowski, Plowville, Pa: At 08 May 2009 5:07 PM, you posted: "Lakeway ran twice UNDER 1:47 for 1 1/8 mile as 3 yr old something Secretariat, Affirmed or Seattle Slew could not do."

With all due respect to you, Secretariat set a world record of 1:45 2/5 for 1 1/8 miles in the first Marlboro Cup.

Don't know about Slew or Affirmed, since I don't have their PP's handy.

Bravo for Jess Jackson.  The previous owners were will to let Rachael dominate small fields of fillies.  Horse racing needs heroes, whether it is Rachael, Mine that bird or Calvin

Borel.  At least know we will find out how good she is.

Travis L.,

    lol, "I would be less suprised if I wake up tommarrow with my head sewn to the carpet then if FF beats RA.", I give you credit, that was funny...

    Hey, We all have our favorites, Friesan Fire is mine, Always will be, NO ONE can hold the Derby against him, Rachel winning the preakness, yeah, you are probably right, but this is horse racing, and as the Derby showed, Anything can happen travis, I think Rachel has the potential at being one of the greats, alot to prove still, though, I think she is incredible, BUT to win the Preakness is asking alot under the circumstances, Two weeks, new owner, new trainer, new barn, She will probably be the favorite, but, like I said, Friesan Fire was the favorite in the Derby and he had a horrible start, grabbed a quarter, got stepped on, bumped, and the Jockey didn't do him any favors...

    Obviously, Jackson was always going to run her against the boys, fine, that is his right, BUT, In my opinion, He should have trained her up to the Belmont, More time in the new barn, More time with Asmussen, More time to recover from Oaks, Etc...

    You NEVER know in this sport, The Derby proved that, So we will see...

For Big Red, The son of Somethingroyal ran under 1:47 for 1 1/8 mile ONCE, {I am a terrible typer and left out Lakeway did it TWICE} sorry

So what should she do Heath?  Not run because she is too good?  That is the most ridiculous comment!  If Mine that Bird is good enough to win the Triple Crown he will with or without Rachel Alexandra-but to expect her not to run just because fans want a TC winner is ridiculous.  I would much rather have a TC winner who ran against the BEST horses of his year-male or female-and won it anyway.  I don't want it handed to him because he is a "nice underdog story".  The Preakness is MUCH more interesting with her in it!

Also Heath-Borel has NOT "defected" from a Derby winner!  He was Rachel Alexandras REGULAR rider long before he came along!

Travis L.,

   Wait a second, I skipped over you last sentence, "Draynay where are you? We have some how lost valuable common sense in these blogs."...

    Draynay, Common Sense?, lol, I think he had at least ten horses he picked in the Derby?, Then "Big Drama" for Preakness, Now "Rachel Alexandra" , Who will it be tomorrow, "Mister Ed"....

Sorry Newsline-I mistyped I didn't mean that jockeys only get 10% of the winners purse...If the horse finishes in the money the jockey gets 10% otherwise if he finishes 5th or worse he gets the flat mount fee.

I am still on the fence with Rachel Alexandra and hope the new connections give her some competition.  Also, I think the Belmont would have suited her better than the Preakness.  I will pass judgement on her after the Breeders Cup, for now I am just watching and following her like I do with many other horses.  She is entertaining to watch, but she is not in the elite "greats" for fillies right now in my opinion.

With her obvious talent, scope and silky way of going, RA is running her way into the conversation, but has many wins to go before attaining "all-time great" status.  Let us hope her new connections do right by this marvelous filly.

Starting with Tom Durkin’s call 50 yards before she coasted home by 20, and continuing with Bailey & his two comrades, the media hype has been unbelievable, now it is going to mutate to the point that she will be 1/9 odds.  Fact is she is not a super horse, she would have dead heated with Friesan Fire on March 14th at the Fairgrounds, they both ran there that day.  Fact is she would not have beaten Miss Isella on Oaks day.  Fact is she would not have been in the money in that 19 horse rodeo on May 2nd.   Fact is that she beat a VERY bad bunch by 20.  The hype is going to create a betting opportunity of a life time.  If she wins and beats me, then so be it.  Any day now some one is going to suggest that we ship her off to the Hall Of Fame and install her this August.  From reading some of the posts on this blog, it appears that many on here think that racing in this country started in the 1970’s or 1980’s.  I mean throwing the name Lakeside out there with all time greats is absurd.  But it is nice to see a few historians on here too citing TaWee, Pan Zareta, Tosmah , Busher etc.

Calvin stands to be the first Jockey in history(?) to win all 3  TC races in the same year  on different horse's That is IF RA is the monster that she appears to be  

The Oaks field was worse than most years Black Eyed Susan Stakes, now that is saying something.

This is a great blog. I know from the many conversations that I have had with other racing fans, Ruffian is the gold standard of fillies. There have been many other fillies of note, (Winning Colors, Go For Wand, Princess Rooney, etc.). Ruffian was remarkable for her beauty, dominance and sheer speed. For me, Ruffian should be the standard in which fillies of the modern day can be measured.

I don't know who the greatest filly of all time is, I just know my favorite filly of all-time and that is Personal Ensign.  As for Rachel, she is an interesting horse but let's hold on for a couple of weeks on her.  I think it will be hard for her to get past Big Drama in the Preakness.

think there are some good fillies and mares out there so I think, if RA is as good as people are saying she will get chance to prove it this year. There is Zenyatta and  a host of others out there.  

While talking about great racing fillies/mares of all-time, the New Zealand superstar SUNLINE has to be in the conversation. She ran 48 races and won 32 of them...14 Grade Ones....including the 2000 Hong Kong Mile against the best milers in the world. She earned over $8(US)million. Alas, she recently passed away from laminitis...Greg - if you can find that race - you are a GOD!!!

Rachel Alexandra has my support to win the Preakness if she goes. I think the best fillies I know of have to be Ruffian and Rags To Riches. I adore Ruffian and think she was the best of the fillies no matter what. Has there ever been a horse who could give the times she did or the lengths that she won. I'm not very familiar with the Filly triple crown. Who was the last filly to win it?

     To Teddy Jew - It took 100 Years for a filly to win the Belmont !!!!I dont care if they ran the race in 2min and 30 seconds The point is that filly ran her eyeballs out to beat a two time Horse of the Year !!! Come on now  Rags To Riches is one of the best fillies of recent times and by the way,No filly to this date can top Ruffian !!!

There has been enough good fillies

over the years to make the blood curl,but for me the greatest of them all was Ruffian.There was just that something about her that made her a very special filly.Were Rachel Alexandra fits in only time will tell.

      I want to apologize to Teddy Jew !! My comment was meant for Steve S !!! I'ts been a long day for me !  Sorry for the mix up :) !!!!

       Speaking of great fillies  who's lives were cut short -Does anyone remember Landaluce ???

Let's see if I remember this correctly. Personal Ensign was being prepped for the BC as a 2 yo when she broke her pastern. There was some chatter when she came back winning as a 3 yo about possibly Eclipse consideration had she run in the BC, but it was very late that year (mid Nov??) and I don't think Shug took anybody out that year (was that one of Lure's wins?)- it was at Hollywood. Not too far fetched there, as I believe Sacahuista won the Eclipse after winning the Distaff. So I will politely disagree with the comment about PE's form being only in her 4yo year. As for the rest, going by Becky's established criteria, not much too disagree with there except for "Rags". I would have liked to see her race longer, but Coolmore very rarely races older horses period, and I can't think of a older filly at all, but I could very well be wrong there. I know she was injured, but was she really rehabbed with an eye to racing again, or just to make it look good?

As for the weight issue that some mention- good luck there! It boggles the mind that trainers who have no problem sending 3yos 1 1/4m with 126 up early in the year complain mightily when their older horses are asked to carry 122 later on. Just as an observation, Smarty Jones in his 7, EARLY season starts averaged nearly the same (less than 1/2 pound, I think) weight carried as the older Ghostzapper did in his 4 LATE season starts. A 3yo, with more starts to lower the average, carrying as much as an older horse? Yes, I am in the camp that weight carrying ability should be considered in judging a horse's career, but you will never see it again.

Rachel Alexandra is looking to be one of the greatest fillies of all time and I am really looking forward to the duels between she and Zenyatta and even Stardom Bound. The most exciting races may very well come from the girls this year. But the best filly ever is still beyond a doubt the late, great Ruffian. She would have beaten Foolish Pleasure no matter what anyone else says. I watched her race and I sadly watched her breakdown. And she was slightly in front of Foolish Pleasure when it happened. Ruffian will forever be a hard filly to replace. Just my opinion.

As for the Triple Tiara and who won it last. Mom's Command and Sky Beauty both won it, but I don't believe either ran in the Black Eyed Susan. But what definitions of a filly Triple are we going by? There was/is the NYRA Triple Tiara- originally the Acorn/Mother Goose/CCA Oaks, now the Mother Goose/CCA Oaks/Alabama (a change that I don't agree with by the way). But was there an "unofficial" triple before then that included the KY Oaks and/or Black Eyed Susan?

Wow Stanley, what a shame that you have nothing better to do than call me and my comments ridiculous. However, if you bothered to actually read my previous post you would see that the gist of my comments are not about RA running in the Preakness but more about the constant silliness of the horse racing world and the media of just how unstoppable RA is, without even having run the race. It seems to me that by all but declaring the Preakness winner as RA, the sport is being undermined and robbed of any real suspense it might otherwise be gaining.Quite a miscalculation if one recognizes the financial struggles of Pimlico and the lack of general enthusiasm there has been to the point that they can barely sell tickets. So if people want to constantly declare RA the unstoppable victor of the Preakness before the race is even run, then the danger is in undermining what renewed interest there may actually be in the sport since the improbable victory by MTB at the Derby. And all this just when it seemed that revitalization was beginning. It is a mistake to overly hype one horse to the point of people saying, what's the point in watching. I love Calvin Borel and I realize that he's been riding RA and I don't fault him for wanting to do that but his return to the horse is just another loss of tension and story. I wish him and RA well, I just wish people would stop undermining the plot by already giving RA the crown and the loot. Otherwise, the sport may lose even more ground.

Roscoe Earl hit the nail on the head.  The filly hype and the underdog gelding story is creating a betting opportunity like none in my lifetime (and I'm pretty old).

four major international stakes, (including L'Arc de Triomphe), three countries, four race tracks, and get this..in 41 days!!!! The greatest filly? Try All Along.

I don't like replying to blogs that have so many responses, but I must say thank you to almost everyone who replied for remembering Zenyatta. Since RA won the Oaks, people have been either forgetting Zen or saying Rachel will smoke her.

It's sad, really.

To those people, I point to Zenyatta's fourth race, the Apple Blossom, in which she defeated champion dirt female Ginger Punch effortlessly her first time on the surface. Since then, she has faced incredibly talented mares and won without even trying.

Rachel is a great filly, no doubt, but I tend to fall for a horse before the bandwagon comes around and I was too late for this trip. Still, she hasn't beaten much of anyone. I don't think putting her in the TC will help prove her worth either. I'm not worried about her messing up a triple crown; I doubt there will be a winner this year anyway.

As for my personal pick: Zenyatta is my current obsession and has been since her easy win in the Apple Blossom, but I still love Genuine Risk. She seems so ignored lately. Or are people forgetting she was the closest filly to winning the Triple Crown?

Frankly the stats suggest Regret was one of the best and maybe the best filly ever. And how about Dahlia, Gamely and Susan's Girl? The good ones aren't all recent. But I haven't gone back to see if their biggest wins were at 3 or 4. Too late at night to go digging for the stats! How about Personal Ensign (did  get the name right? the undefeated filly — as I said, it is LATE) and Winning Colors? She beat some excellent colts in the Derby.

Dance Smartly did everything asked of her and I am happy to see her included here.

You would do well to look the filly Ipi Tombe as one of the greatest of the distaff runners, and a literal "rags to riches" story. She was sold as a yearling for the equivalent of $30 dollars. You are correctly reading the dollar amount. I didn't leave out any zeros. She would beat the boys, and do so conceding weight to them. She also broke track records, too. She would end up winning over $1.5 million dollars in her illustrious career. The great Ipi Tombe, whose name translated from Zimbabwese, means "Where are the girls?"

I've been a fan of horse racing only since 2003 (Thank you Funny Cide!) and cannot intelligently comment on the greatest filly of all time. I can say, though, that I was upset with RA's former owners and that archaic notion that fillies should only run with fillies and colts with colts. So I was happy that Jess Jackson bought her as I think the best is yet to come. I think the best horses of either sex should be competing against each other--this is what creates the most excitement about the sport. I love RA and think she has a good shot to win the Preakness, but I think Big Drama is the real danger in this race. While it's not likely, I'm hoping that MTB pulls off another upset.

Roscoe earl, great post.

"without even having run the race. It seems to me that by all but declaring the Preakness winner as RA, the sport is being undermined and robbed of any real suspense it might otherwise be gaining."

That would only be true if the horse is actually the only one with  a chance of winning.

Maybe that will turn out to be the case, but as the Kentucky Derby proved, no one can know for sure until the race is won (except for Zarkava, of course )

steve s, what belmont were you watching when Rags beat the boys?

She stumbled at the start, had to regroup and settle into a race rythm, get up into contention, was 4 wide coming around to the stretch, went eye to eye with Curlin (who had tied the Preakness record, so she wasn't racing "subpar" colts) in a fantastic stretch duel in THE one and a half mile Test of 3 year olds, with a final quarter (23:83) that was faster than SECRETARIATS, in fact it was the fastest final quarter in the Belmont since 1934...and she was the first filly to ever win the Belmont at the distance of today's 1 1/2 miles!

She did not set the dwadling early pace and fractions, she was too busy getting back into the race from her bad start...

She's an excellent race horse, her 3 year old year she had 4 Grade 1 wins including Oaks and Belmont, and showed her great heart in her gut wrenching second place effort in her last race when she fractured her leg. A Beyer of 107 does not tell the story of that race, or many races, for that matter.

Travis L, I'm not sure how old you are, but with all respect, all of us hope we're watching the greatest filly of all time...we appreciate her, but all RA has shown us talent...she's set no records, never laid it all on the line...what we love about our favorite fillies is their heart...if you can't read that in our posts, I'm sorry...no one is dissing RA...and we all hope that she and another great filly, perhaps Zenyatta, give us a race like Personal Ensign and Winning Colors gave us...

Greg J.

Why is FF gonna take the Preakness.  Is it because he is sired by AP Indy?  I don't see a lot about that horse that is impressive other than that.  If Larry keeps Gabe on him, then forget it.  He needs a different jockey.  One that has a lot more experience.  I don't know about this FF thing.  Everyone is talking about FF and what he comes in 2nd to last in the Derby and I am now finding out that he wasn't injured much if at all?  I am dumbfounded about this.  PON, MM, PC all three and Mine that Bird are better race horses.  :)

Rachel is really good, but it will be hard for her to surpass the record of Rags to Riches.  I sure hope Mine That Bird can get another winning jockey for Preakness; he deserves it!

Dr, Fager

Mine that bird came from Sunland???

Remeber what cordero did with Codex, she will not have a easy trip and certainly will be fully tested.No way to even bring up greatest filly with past greats as Ruffian and Personal Ensign.Autralia had a great filly who took on and beat the boys a couple years ago called Maykab Diva she was considered one of the gretaest to ever run in Australia including the great Pharlap who in 1 week won 3 stakes races --yea 1 week.

Heath

Sorry, handle ande media coverage will double, not go done.

da3hoss

I'm 2

The people saying how Rachel hasn't faced anyone are the same people who are proclaiming Ruffian to be the greatest filly.  However, who did Ruffian ever beat in her career?  I know she broke a lot of records, but they were mostly at Belmont before the track was deepened.  She was also always hand ridden out and she never beat the boys.  Rachel, on the other hand, is coming close to breaking records without even being ridden out. It's funny when something truly great comes along, people aren't able to recognize it.

Also, your argument would have held more weight if you would have included Inside Information, who gave the most brillant performance ever seen in the BC Distaff annihilating a quality, quality field of older mares.  

I wasn't around to see Ruffian, but I do know that Rachel is the best filly that I have seen in my lifetime in the States on dirt.  She is just in a different league.

Rags to Riches was a fantastic horse.  She is actually one of my favorites, and I got to see her race before everyone knew about her.  When she broke her maiden, I said that she was one of the best that I had seen.  People laughed at me at the time.  They aren't laughing anymore.  However, Rags only beat Curlin for one reason...Curlin was a tired horse, and Rags to Riches was coming into the Belmont fresh.  If the circumstances would have been reversed, Curlin would have won.  There is no denying that Rags was a top class filly and one of the best in the last 20 years though.    

As for Rachel going for 1 1/8 to the 1 1/2 Belmont...I don't agree with that.  I know that Rags did it, but it broke her down.  It is very hard for a horse to stretch out that far.  It is a much wiser decision to first run Rachel in the Preakness as is planned.  She will then have a stepping stone to the Belmont.  

My money will be on Rachel to win the Preakness by 5+ lengths. She is just that good. As I said, it's too bad you all can't recognize just how special she is. You will in time. If she's isn't the best ever, she's darn close. Horses just don't keep winning races like she's been winning if they aren't total freaks.    

And how FF was the favorite in the Derby, I don't know. A horse can't win the Derby off of a 7 week layoff and without a race over 1 1/16.  It just doesn't happen that way.  FF has no shot whatsoever to win the Preakness either.  

Rachel Alexandra the best ever? We are annoiting her a tad early. You can't stamp greatness on any horse after 1 brilliant performance. Right now I would say that she "potentially" could become an all time great. She still has to beat Zenyatta who in my mind is a pretty darn good race horse. Rags to Riches won the Oaks, and then the Belmont, I would rank her as one of the best in the several years. She retired too early and did not do enough to warrant an all time great tag.

I have been in this game since the 1950's and my all time greats in no particular order would be Ruffian, Susan's Girl, Silver Spoon, Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign, Go For Wand, Landaluce, Azeri, Winning Colors, Gamely, Ouija Board, Dahlia, Serena's Song, Ta Wee, and Moccasin. I saw an interview with Frank Whiteley and he said that Ruffian was the best horse he ever trained or saw. Remember that he also trained Damascus, Forego and Tom Rolfe among other greats. Lucian Lauren trainer of Secretariat said that Ruffian was also the best he ever saw. I would have to say that it is hard to argue with 2 of the greatest trainers, who trained 2 of the greatest horses of all time. This is a fun discussion but it is not winnable for anyone. Different eras, different types of racing surfaces, competition, etc make it impossible to say. I just loved watching all of them run and that special feeling one gets when they know that they just saw something breathtaking happen.

I just hope that Asmussen doesn't hurt RA by putting her in compromising situations. ThePreakness is too soon, run her in the Acorn, and perhaps the Beldame and then the Breeders' Cup Distaff.

Your all missing the point.  There was no doubt the best horse was not in the Derby and the Preakness will prove it.  Mine That Bird beat a bunch of mid packers that were forced to the front because of the lack of any real speed in the race.

That will not be the problem in the Preakness and RA will show her true talent and soon be spoken in the same breath with Ruffian.  There is no reason she can't rule the 3 year old division until Quality Road comes back.

Filly

I agree with you about this.  I don't for the life of me understand why FF was the fav in the Derby either.  I like the horse but as I said before, I really wasn't impressed.  He is pretty horse though.  

Ruffian was just head and shoulders above the rest, sorry.  She was never asked to really run--for example, her Coaching Club American Oaks win, in 2:27 2/5...where she was never asked to run a lick.  I was there that day, and I remember my father saying "My God--how fast would she have gone if they asked her to run?"

Sort of reminds you of RA, but RA has a long, long way to go before we compare her to Ruffian :).

Landolucy??? Watch her last couple and then RA's

After she wins the Preakness I will have NO problem comparing her to Ruffian.

this is good stuff, but, diss the Derby winner at your peril. He finished in 47 and change, the others backed up for sure, but he finished in 47 and change!!!  Also, a deep breath before throwing FF under the bus.  Hansel was a derby favorite bust who paid over $20 in the Preakness

The real story will be that CB will be the first jock to take off a Triple Crown winner.The little plain bay from humble beginnings will capture the nations attention and affection like no horse since that other plain bey from the 1930's.All the planets are aligned. That's the story I'm rooting for.

rags to richs won the belmont in arace where some body had to win.6 furlongs in 1:15:40.very yery slow.

TO Stanley Marcinkowski: In your 08 May 2009 6:39 PM response to me, you pointed out that Lakeway ran 1 1/8 miles under 1:47 twice.

That's your criteria for listing her among the greatest of all time? You dismiss a 1:45 2/5 world record because Secretariat didn't run under 1:47 twice at that distance? Get real, man.

BTW, not only did Red set that 1:45 2/5 world record in the Marlboro Cup against a field of older champions, but he also won the Arlington Invitational in 1:47 flat. Sorry he couldn't have shaved a tick off in order to meet your criteria for greatness. Now where's my rolling eyes emoticon when I need it.

TO The Deacon: Loved Moccasin, absolutely loved her. I adored her brother, Ridan. Wish he had made it as a stallion, but their brother, Lt. Stevens was a good stud.

Speaking of great fillies and mares, what a spectacular family Rough Shod founded with her offspring.

Draynay: Remember how absolutely certain you were about Dunkirk before the Derby. Just sayin...

The "Rachel is the best"

Who has she beat? What records has she set (time records, not margin of victory)?  

All you can come up with to explain your position is that the rest of us just don't recognize how great and special she is. Ten bucks says you thought the same thing about the last horse that the media over-hyped.  

But by all means, please keep betting with your emotions instead of your brains so I can cash in on Preakness day.  

Gach

If you don't bet an RA, you will not be cashing a ticket next Saturday. You just got done saying bet with your brains not emotions.

108 Beyer, 2 tenths of the stakes record in a motionless ride, last 3 by over 30 lengths, good luck trying to beat her, I'll be praying for you.

Twilight Tear may have been the best filly/mare ever!Actually, Calumet had quite a few filly/mare who would have to be considered for Best Ten Ever' Bewitch was outstanding. They also had Twosy!

But nothing compares to Ruffian  -period!!!!!!!

Another great filly was Cicada . . . and how about Dahlia!

MikeM; I am absolutely rooting for your scenario. As a small time trainer with the same big dream that we all have, MTB's Derby win keeps our dreams alive not to mention what the Triple Crown could do for all of us and all of racing as a whole. I have lost jockey's to big stables in the past and on more than a few occasions I have been lucky enough to beat the rider and the horse that he chose over mine. Racing is politics like everything else. I wish no ill to RA but it is way too soon to put the blanket of Black-eyed Susans on her let alone crown her the best filly of all time. Only time and horse races will tell the story.

Good luck Travis L.  How much did you win on Big Brown in the Belmont last year?  And don't even try to pretend you didn't bet him, you're very obviously a bandwagon bettor.

Did you note in your research that RA dead heated with Friesan Fire in their Fairgrounds Oaks/Louisiana Derby finishes?  Same track, same day, same conditions, same Beyers.  I could've sworn I saw him crossing the Derby wire second to last after going off as the betting favorite.

The choice made by Calvin Borel is not necessarily about whether he believes that RA is a better horse than MTB, it might be about stable size, stable quality, stable location, and future mounts.

Gach,

$2 win bet for a souvineer, thats it, however that didn't pan out, actually I thought Big Brown was over rated and loved Eight Belles in the Derby and Macho again in the Preakness. Sorry but my handicapping has been good last couple of years, cashed in exacta's in Oak, Derby and Preakness last year. Back to the subject now, If you would have followed the blogs the last month, I loved General Quarters, MM, and Summer Bird, not really a band wagen bettor. I hated POTN and FF and IWR. Have someone pull up past blogs buddy. It's the way Rachael runs that's scary, not the times, when she's finally asked then you will see records. However Curlin's this Saturday will be tough to beat. Good Luck, and hope your not sour on the money you must have lost on OR BB.

Yes, the new connections/trainer of RA have had little to do with Calvin, it is my understanding.  Can't blame him for wanting to secure his own future--but I would like to have seen him take a chance on the little horse MTB--and be a real maverick.

Jockeys are notoriously bad handicappers, Bill Shoemaker climbed off of Northern Dancer to ride Hill Rise, he  made other mistakes along the way.  Arcaro also made many a bad decision on giving up mounts.  Boreal could hardly not take the mount on RA after claiming on May 1st that she was the best horse he ever rode, plus how many more mounts is Benny Wooly ever going to give him, haha.  As for Mine That Bird, I for one will not pass judgments on him as being a fluke yet.  I did that in 1971, Cannero came back and set a track record in the Preakness, as a 5 year old he beat Riva Ridge and set another track record.  Charismatic looked like a fluke, then won the Preakness even more impressively.  RA at this point is a media creation.  My problem is not  with her winning the Preakness, it is handicapping the males.  Will FF run a good race?  Is MTB for real?  Etc. etc.  I will use her in the 2nd & 3rd hole on some tickets, and throw her out on most of my tickets.  This whole thing about her being GREAT at this point is a joke.

Time will tell just how RA rates with the other great fillies of the past for now it's to early to compare her with them.

Some jockeys get on/take off mounts based on the human connections.  Since MTB was the first horse he had ever ridden for that trainer it makes since he would stick to connections he knowns and has ridden for and will probably pick up mounts for in the future.

Calvin rides very few mounts for Asmussen (I think someone said the last time he rode one of Asmussen's horses was 2 years ago). He made the decision because he wanted to keep riding Rachel. Time will tell if he chose correctly.

TO JUDY B.: What a gift to have a trainer posting here, small time or not. Hope you don't mind my asking for your opinion on a couple of things.

What's your opinion about racing fillies against colts as two-year-olds through the spring as three-year-olds? Although this question is relevant to the RA situation, I'm actually interested in the more general point of view.

Also, do you think any of the colts who finished behind MTB in the Derby are likely to improve in the Preakness?

If you choose to answer, thanks. :)

EVERYONE OF THOSE FILLIES MENTIONED RANKS ABOVE RA AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WILL EVER BEST RUFFIAN.  ON A SIDE NOTE:  HAL WIGGINS SHOULD BE TRAINING THAT FILLY IF SHE RUNS IN THE PREAKNESS AND I HOPE SHE SEES NOTHING BUT THE BUTTS OF MINE THAT BIRD W/ CHANTEL SUTHERLAND ABOARD OR PAPA CLEM MY SENTIMENTAL FAVORITE!!!!! 

One filly often overlooked when some of the more recent greats are discussed is Melair.  She was absolutely brilliant in her short career, and dominated the very good Snow Chief in the Silver Screen.  

I am struggling a little bit with FF. Now I know he is a hundred times better than what happened to him in the derby. Clearly he was not a fan of getting knocked around and according to reports grabbed a quarter and ripped part of his hoof off. That would clearly explain the derby disaster. I had a horse grab a quarter in the pasture and it is not a good thing. So the question that arises is how come if he grabbed a quarter is he able to come back and run the Preakness in two weeks??????? They are saying thye have it patched. So IMO they are choosing to run a horse that is not and can not be 100% sound for the Preakness...or...his injury was never really that serious. I have deep respect for Larry Jones but lets just hope he is not rushing FF back to the races to soon.

Let's not get carried away just yet.RA has beat-up a bunch of nobodys so far.Not saying the field for the Preakness is world-class,but they'll be alot tougher than the mules she's been facing,we'll see.

And as 3yo's,I'll put Lakeway,Rags to Riches and Melair(at 1 1/16 or less)up against any other filly.

Also,..Landaluce was a Monster,too bad her life was cut short at 2.If you don't know of her,check out her races on youtube.

Ruffian was the best ever, period........Draynay when will you learn to stop stepping on land mines. You pretty guaranteed a Quality Road (did not run so not your fault) and Dunkirk 1-2 finish in the Derby and you see how that turned out. Nothin, and I mean nothing is for sure in this sport. Horses just can not tell tell us how they feel the morning of the race. We all have our favorites, but history does not lie. I listed some of the all time great fillies and mares above and arguebly you could throw in a 1/2 dozen more. Until RA beats Zenyatta then saying she is a better horse is a ridiculous comment. Zenyatta has done nothing wrong. She only beat the best fillies and mares last year and on different surfaces, nuff said.......

My pops died last year at age 93, and he saw Busher run, and he also saw just every all time filly and mare run and he believed emphatically that Ruffian was the best he ever saw at any distance. That is good enough for me...........

For Big Red, Thanks so much for your questions-I hope that I can answer them for you. As for the general question of fillies against the boys: first and foremost every horse is unique. In general though just as human girls, in most cases, mature physically faster than boys I believe the same is often true with horses. I believe that 2 & 3 year old fillies actually have a better chance against colts in their age group than fillies & mares 4 & up because the colts have caught up and in most cases have surpassed them physically. There are exceptions to every rule though. Since I have never seen RA or MTB in person I can't give an opinion who is physically more mature.

As for your second question I believe any of the horses in the Derby can improve especially at Pimlico. Churchill is a very unique track with a unique racing surface and a very long stretch. The Derby and the festivities of Derby Day are also unique. MTB won the Derby by 6 3/4 lengths, if he had won by 1/2 a length or even a length I could attribute it to Borel's rail skimming ride and home track advantage but his win was a good horse liking the track and not being affected by the festivities and the noise. MTB can win without Borel but will Pimlico suit him or will it suit another better. I guess we'll find out next week.

RA will win the Preakness, but there will be no filly ever better than the Great Ruffian. She was in a league all of her own. She was never headed in her races and would have beat Foolish Pleasure had she not broken down that sad day in July 1975 had she not broken down. Ruffian was a victim of her own demise. She could not stand for another horse to get in front of her and continued to run after breaking her leg which complicated her injuries until her jockey could pull her up. Let's just hope nothing bad happens to Rachel Alexandra.

Bayakoa at 1 1/8 was TOUGH! She would set fast fractions and then open up on them! She ran many freakish races--don't forget about her! Also right now there are some tough fillies---better wait 'till RA beats Zenyatta and friends before we go out and annoint her all-time status.....there were no toughies in there last week--this Fall RA will get her chance to strut her stuff v the big girls!

What about Landaluce?  I remember front page articles comparing her to Ruffian.  No one knows what she could have accomplished had she lived past age 2, but she obviously had her father's talent.  And, even though I love my Slew horses (Slew will always be my number 1 pick), Ruffian will always be my 1st choice as greatest filly of all time.  Rags isn't too far behind.  Here's hoping her little girl is as good as her momma!

The guards of the past ALWAYS come out when you dare to say ANY horse is as good or better than the greats of the past.  Ruffian was a great horse but never beat the boys.  A win by RA in the Preakness will start her on the path to accomplishing more than the great Ruffian.

Dahlia was among the best!  Shuvee was super, she won the Jockey Club Gold Cup against the boys AT THE FULL 2 MILE DISTANCE!  Ruffian was certainly among the top fillies.  As someone mentioned, Busher and TaWee were way up there too.  Regret paved the way for all of the great fillies to come, and as all have pointed out, there are many others to consider.  Rachel Alexandra is a special filly, but great is a title that remains to be seen.  She has the potential to be among the top all time fillies, but don't crown her yet!

How could I forget Lady's Secret too.  And I will never forget watching Personal Ensign, in the dark and on a sloppy track that she did not like, roaring up the stretch to catch Winning Colors on a track that she did like, at the wire.  If that does not get you then you have a heart of stone.  Top fillies are there in numbers, she will have to show me that she is in the top 25 because she will be in some truly great company.  She would be in phenomenal company in the top 50 all time fillies and mares!

Personal Ensign was absolutely one of the best. To do what she did with an injury that should have been considered at the very least as "Career Limiting" is phenomenal.  

Big Red

Love your posts. :)

I agree with those who say Rachel Alexandra is a terrific filly but it is too soon to call her an all time great.  She still has more to do. And to Draynay-if you know racing history you know that Ruffian did not get the opportunity to run against the boys as a result of what happened in her first attempt.  I do believe her race record & multiple stakes/track records speak for themselves though!

So many fillies, to this point in their 3 year old year, have looked great: RUFFIAN, SUSAN'S GIRL, LITE LIGHT, BLUSH WITH PRIDE, SERENA'S SONG, RAGS TO RICHES, GENUINE RISK, SILVERBULLETDAY, PRINCESS ROONEY, TURKISH TROUSERS, etc. RACHEL ALEXANDRA looks great, too, except she hasn't defeated a truly "good" horse yet. But I still am impressed. STARDOM BOUND impresses me as well. I'm not ready to crown RACHEL ALEXANDRA as "the best," but I'm giving her all the credit in the world. She's a tough chick.  

Why not just enjoy Rachel Alexandra. You can't judge "the best" until the book is closed. That kind of title comes with a body of work, not just one performance. Having said that, she's a bona fide phenomenon and I wouldn't put it past her to be a deserving member of the debate. I hope the barn switch doesn't mess her up.

How good was Cesario?  Revidere?

So many good ones over the years.

Rainbow Connection?  Relaxing?

My personal favorite was Le Prevoyante who was an absolutely brilliant two year old.  But then, I liked Linda's Chief better than Secretariat.

Some things to ponder. Rachel Alexandra will be coming back to race the boys in the Preakness off only a 2 week rest. Although she won the Oaks in convincing fashion (20 1/4 lengths), and despite the  ease doing so, it should not be underestimated how much that effort took out of her. Now she faces 4 new elements: 1 3/16 miles, the boys, some very rested boys, and running for new connections. Her previous owners did not want her to run against the colts, and were adamant about it, feeling a)the colts were too strong this time of the year, b) believed strongly that, regardless of the outcome of the race, these efforts ultimately take their toll on these talented creatures - Eight Belles and Rags to Riches to name two. Sometimes people lose track that these powerful performers are not machines. They breakdown when they are pushed beyond their limits. A mis-timed step is all it takes, and it doesn't even require a race to do it. There are only so many races that horses can perform at their peak, and who looked so invincible one minute might not be consider so the next. And before people get too carried away, I always keep in mind something that Todd Pletcher said to bring me back to reality, "Horses are like strawberries, they go bad overnight." Despite what we may think about Todd Pletcher, his statement is pretty accurate. I was also disturbed to hear that Rachel Alexandra had been in consideration to be sold to IEAH. But they had her vetted, and x-rays revealed a chip in one of her ankles, and a possible deal was scrapped. My own question would be: Did the old owners fully recognize the ability and limitations of their filly, that they were not interested in putting undo pressure on her? I don't have the answer. And, I'm not wishing her ill but, sometimes things are better left the way they are. What would have been so wrong about letting her run against those she has dominated. Why make it harder? There was plenty of money to be made not changing anything. As we all can attest to, be careful what you wish for.

for big red, why are you comparing secretariat to RA?

Ouija Board is the best Female over the past 20 years....yet no one mentions her.  Talk about beating the boys.....she chewed them up over and over all over the world.  Her turn of foot on the grass was unmatched.  Game as they come....boys, girls, it didn't matter.  She crushed whatever was in her way for several years.  

         I know that Landaluce Would have been one of the greats had she not succumb to illness !From what i've read in the past she died in her trainers arms (DW Lukas ) Another tragedy ! I will be rooting for RA if She Runs in thePreakness !!!!

Travis L. you are quite precocious for 2, ;-)

Just a couple out of USA, just because they are so great...

Dahlia- How much more could you accomplish? Raced 46 times 15-3-7(including against the boys) in US, Canada, France, England and Ireland,

European Champion 3-Yr-Old (1973)

U K Horse of the Year (1973 & 1974)

U.S. Champion Turf Horse (1974)

Timeform rating: 135

Prix Yacowlef (1972)

Prix de la Grotte (1973)

Prix Saint-Alary (1973)

Irish Oaks (1973)

K. George VI & Q. Elizabeth Stakes (1973 & 1974)

Prix Niel (1973)

Washington, D.C. International (1973)

Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud (1974)

Benson and Hedges Gold Cup (1974 & 1975)

Man O' War Stakes (1974)

Canadian International Stakes (1974)

Hollywood Invitational Handicap (1976)

Ta Wee

Busher-the queen

Gamely

Makybe Diva

Black Helen

Bewitch

Affectionately

Susan's Girl

Miesque

Ruffian

Twilight Tear

Bewitch

Davona Dale

Cicada

Top Flight

All Along

Shuvee

Bayakoa

Regret

Go for Wand

Genuine Risk

Lady's Secret

Two Lea

Beldame

Personal Ensign

Lady's Secret

Azeri

Winning Colors

Xtra Heat

Spain

Ouija Board

Goldivika

Zarkova

TO:THE DEACON

Great point!

Gach...if you were talking to me earlier...I never bet with my emotions. Never because that is a great way to lose money and I don't like throwing money away. I am also not someone that jumps on overhyped horses like Dunkirk. He was the second horse I tossed for the Derby this year because if Curlin couldn't win under those circumstances, then Dunkirk certainly wasn't going to be able to. I have also never thought the world of Stardom Bound, but I always knew that she was an unsound horse.

RA broke the stakes record in the Martha Washington Stakes being geared down before the wire.  She ran her last 1/8 in that race in less than 12 seconds being geared down.

There is no doubt that RA would have broken the stakes record for the Oaks if asked.

You cannot compare Fresian Fire's race to RA race at the Fairgrounds. Gabe was all over Fresian Fire. Calvin asked RA and then geared her down before the wire. Also, FF moved way up on that track.  Beyer Speed Figures only consider times. That is why it is so important to actually watch the races. So even if they finished in the same time or got the same figure, they were two very different races.

Also, FF would have NEVER ran well in the Derby coming off of a 7 week layoff and never having a race at 1 1/8. He was the first horse I tossed. So, you can't really say that RA would have ran poorly based on the way FF ran in the Derby.  

RA is never really asked to run. She hasn't just had one brilliant race. All of her races this year have been stunningly brilliant. She is not going to break records if she isn't asked. They are smart for not asking her at all. She wasn't even hand ridden in the Oaks. Not asking her will keep her sound and as long as she keeps running like that, she won't ever have to be asked.

I can call her great. I don't need to see anymore from her to be able to do so. The only thing that will stop her is if she becomes injured. I've never seen anything like her, and I've been in this game for awhile.

I will single RA in the Preakness in my Pick 3s and Pick 4s if she goes.

To Steve S...yes, the pace was extremely slow in Rag's Belmont. However, they ran the fastest last quarter of a mile ever in the Belmont if I remember correctly.  They were flying home. Rags to Riches was definitely a fantastic filly. She is the only filly to ever beat a dual horse of the year in a GI race if I recall correctly.

for big red,  conspiracy-conspiracy horses going to enter Preakness that are triple crown nominated so RA wont be able to run?

Filly,

I agree with you 100%!!!!!

Amen August Song!  

draynay

Don't forget about Rags beating Curlin in the Belmont.  :)  I think she should run that race instead.  If she wins that one, then I am sold.  :)

I think everyone is quick to jump on a bandwagon because we know that the racing careers are stunted.  We know that chances are, we won't get to see Zenyatta vs. Alexandra.  Since the horses don't stick around for any length of time, we're forced to make comparisons between horses that ran for several years and with double-digit numbers to those who run today for a year or two (if we're lucky) before being shipped off to the oblivion of the breeding shed.  Yes, oblivion.  Because the casual fan doesn't follow what happens beyond the racetrack.  

In any case, yes Rachel Alexandra needs to prove herself.  But since the boys are subpar this year and so are the girls (according to so many observers) with the possible exception of Zenyatta, then so what?  So what if she smokes everyone?  There will always be the naysayers who say "Well, she didn't run against anyone."  That argument is so tired.  That argument is typical when the horse that isn't supposed to win, wins.  Or when the filly beats the boys.  The same argument could be made against Secretariat's competition.... just sayin'.

I believe that ENTIRELY too much trepidation is placed on racing fillies against colts. Eight Belles did not break down because she was racing against colts, in my opinion. That accident could have happened in any time, at any race. It had more to do with a fast track, galloping out in a deeper part of the track, and being from an unsound sireline.

My point is, colts and fillies compete against each other with regularity in most major racing countries. Even as 2yos. And often the fillies win. Also, they are usually very similarly bred to the US runners.

Please stop blaming the owners for "risking" fillies against colts. The colts are more likely to notice a filly in their midst than the reverse, IMO. I doubt RA would be in the least bit intimidated with colts in the post parade. She shares the track with colts every morning during training. Stands next to them in the gap etc. Who cares? She wouldn't.

Having said that, I am not in favour of RA running in the Preakness simply because it represents a sudden shift in her overall program. I don't think that's fair to her. If I had bought her I would stay the course for the Acorn (unless she needed a rest), and then tackle colts in the Haskell and Travers (if she won the Haskell). That would be unique. Those races usually have short fields (this year they certainly would if she showed up) and this is not a vintage crop of 3yo colts, so she could sweep those races and more.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Prizboy, Ouija Board wasn't even as good as her contemporary Pride, who nearly won the Arc. And not a patch on Sunline or Makybe Diva. Or the truly great Dahlia, who won the KGVIQE against older champion males as a 3yo filly. And Allez France, who won the Arc at 4 and nearly did so at 3. Aside from her US wins over lesser competition, Ouija Board's record is that of a very good 3yo filly who was quite good at 4 and 5 as well.

Ruffian was the greatest ever. If you don't believe me watch the movie. RA is a can't miss in the Preakness, just like big brown was in the Belmont only she's good enough to win.

Prizboy, I missed the 20 years timeline. Ouija Board still fails to impress me as the best female. After her 3yo year, her people avoided the top races (KGVIQE and Arc) and picked off some small-field G1s. Ever heard of Pebbles? She didn't have the option of the BC Mares' Turf, so she beat the boys in the main event; she beat horses like Rainbow Quest (Arc winner) and Strawberry Road (a champion in 3 countries) with aplomb.

As to Rachel Alexandra, I have been very impressed by her thus far. She has the potential to be one of the greats, but until the KY Oaks, she has been running in venues away from the major centers of racing and not against the leaders of her division. At the same stage of her career, Susan's Girl had won the Santa Susana (SA Oaks) as well as the Ky Oaks; she'd beaten top fillies east and west. RA may well be able to handle the step up in difficulty, but she has a few things yet to prove.

Since we're digging into the deeper past, I nominate Pan Zareta.

Eight Belles was called a great filly for finishing 2nd in the KD last year- she wasn't a great filly! As sad as the story was, EB came into the race having won 2 minor stakes in small fields- she lost 4 of her first 5 races- and never won a Grade 1 race. When you look at Rags to Riches- she came into the Belmont having won 3 Grade 1 races in a row! R Alexandra has raced against small fields and her level of opposition is at best- moderate. In my opinion- if she runs in the Preakness- she will be distanced, not that this 3 year old division is very good, but it might be slightly better as compared to last years horrible crop of three year olds.  

For Big Red:  You and I are on the same page here about Moccasin. A truly brilliant filly. Mr. Haskin should do a piece on her, Moccasin's name is never mentioned it seems when talking about the all time great fillies and mares. Let us not forget as well, Numbered Account, Optimistic Gal, Dearly Precious, Chris Evert, Tosmah, Paseana, Princess Rooney, Glorious Song, Gallant Bloom, Straight Deal, and the ill fated Lamp Chop. In my mind, I can honestly say we got Ruffian #1, and all others #2. I can live with that...........  

Rachel A. is a tremendous filly. But I agree with most here, the media's annointed her 'a possible great' long before she's really proved it. So far her competition has been so-so. And she's excelled. But what happens if / when she meets queen Zenyatta later this year? I trule believe Zen's closing style will far surpass Rachel A.'s ability. Another filly, who I believe after she's rested, will make Rachel work had is Stardom Bound. She has to step up in competition before really being able to solidify herself with the likes of Go For Wand, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, Rags to Riches... or even the greatest of all, Ruffian. Rachel has talent, there is no denying that. And she's done no wrong, so taking away from her accomplishments thus far isn't fair to the filly either. But to compare this good good filly to the likes of the 'incredi-fillies' before her time, does a disservice to thoes who have accomplished far more than she has. So in my opinion, lets wait (at least) until after the Breeder's Cup to make claims that Rachel Alexandra is one of the best.

Lady Ruffian, I could not agree more. RA just needs to do more and beat some high quality horses. For all we know she could be just razor sharp right now. Correct me if I am wrong but she has lost 3 races and finished once out of the money. Ruffian was 11 for 11 before her ill-fated race against Foolish Pleasure. Up until the last couple of races RA looked pretty average. In no way am I ready to put her in a class with many of the all time greats. Not based on just of a couple of impressive wins. How soon many of you have forgotten, Zenyatta. I guess out of sight, out of mind. RA is the "now" horse, Zenyatta is the currant queen.

NUFF SAID..............

ZARKAVA FAN! - SUNLINE, too,

     Here you go, Found it!!!!!, Sunline 2000 Hong Kong Mile, Sunline underlined her status as the world's greatest mare by holding on bravely to beat the local hero, Fairy King Prawn, by a short head in a thrilling finish to HK$10 million Hong Kong Mile:

video.google.com/videosearch

*quality sucks in the beginning, Gets better at stretch, Great finish!!!

That was the most dominating performance by a filly that I have ever seen in a G1 race.

Check out Lady's Secret's wire to wire romp in the 1986 Breeder's Cup Distaff at 1 1/4 miles!  You Tube this race and compare her fractions at 1 1/4 to RA's.  Then we will talk.  The "Iron Lady" wheeled off 10 of 15 Graded wins in a single year 8 of those being Grade 1s (I think this is a record).  She beat the best males 4x and earned over 3 million lifetime.  RA has a ways to go.

just because a jockey is not flailing like an idiot doesn't me a horse has another five legnths to give next time. Its a great handicapping fallacy. In fact, a motivated horse stands to run fastest when the jockey moves the least and stays centered. This horse has a couple more to give but she was reaching out and moving at the end, even when Borel stopped early. Apparently, all she knows how to do is run.

Lady Ruffian should RA win the Preakness she WILL be one of the ALL TIME great fillies.  The Oak win by 20 and winning the Preakness will be more than enough to prove it.

Zenyatta...Personal Ensign...Inside Information....Bayakoa....Go For Wand...Winning Colors....if Rachael were to win Sat I would put her right up there---I don't think she can hang with Papa Clem and friends...then look Pioneer in the eye--I think he beats her...I think they are aiming too high and for what?.....wait for Zen....cuz they will be waiting for you!!! Besides, beating Zenyatta would be bigger, REALLY, than the Preakness---why dance this dance when there are WAY bigger fish to fry???

I was there and played Caucasus/Toro vs the great Dahlia and Shoe...Shoe made an early move to the front and I thought I had them at the 1/8 pole bit Caucasus "coundn't" get by her.,. I frame quotes around that word cuz a couple weeks prior Dahlia had savaged Caucasus in a prep race, holding him at bay by 1/2 length...this time she did it again, by that same 1/2 length...she danced many big dances, did that beautiful Dahlia.....Rachel hasn't begun to beat the kind Dahlia beat....in other words it's early yet in annointing her....

Since this is only May of RACHEL ALEXANDRA's career I figured that people were going to compare her only with comparable fillies (up to May of their respective careers). I didn't throw in every great filly and mare in history because I didn't think that was the point of the discussion. I thought we were just trying to figure out how RACHEL ALEXANDRA compares to this point (May of the 3 year old year). But I do love all the nice fillies and mares that people are mentioning.

I have to take exception with the person who mentioned something about SECRETARIAT and how "he didn't beat anything." How ridiculous. First of all, STOP THE MUSIC and LINDA'S CHIEF were fabulous horses, and SECRETARIAT handled them as 2 year olds. Then SHAM, FOREGO, SHECKY GREENE and ANNIHILATE 'EM came along in the 3 year old races. In the fall of 1973 I think SECRETARIAT beat one of the greatest fields every assembled when he won the Marlboro Cup, with RIVA RIDGE (champion), COUGAR II (champion), KENNEDY ROAD (champion), KEY TO THE MINT (champion), ANNIHILATE 'EM and ONION behind him. Then, on the turf he beat the fantastic TENTAM and BIG SPRUCE. SECRETARIAT was a great horse who who beat other great horses, and nothing can ever diminish all that he accomplished. I know, I know, he was not a filly, but someone did bring up the subject...so I had to clarify the matter.

Let's line them up...

RA (Martha Washington at a mile)

23.04

47.02

111.99

124.46

136.40

Zenyatta (Lady Secret Handicap)

24.26

48.32

111.45

134.39

140.30

Zenyatta catches the 4/5 Hyserical Lady who set the fractions.  Here is how she did it.

24 4/5

23 4/5

23 1/5

22 3/5

Zenyatta runs the final 1/16 in 6 seconds flat.

Zenyatta can catch Rachel Alexandra.

Matthew W.  Who can forget Bayakoa's 16 month reign of terror?  There is a lesson to be learned here.  She finished last to Criminal Type and Rhulmann as odd on favorite in the Santa Anita Big Cap.  She was the best mare I have ever seen in person.  Beautiful.  Reeled off some consecutive grade 1's with ease and two time Breeder's Cup Distaff winner.

Let's do some more review.

Winning Color's Santa Anita Derby performance against the boys (Rhulmann, Lively One) as the 5/2 favorite.

She sets the fractions.

22 1/5

45 3/5

109 2/5 (Wow)

134 4/5

147 3/5

Wins by 8 lengths in a hand ride.

Only 3 have beaten her final time in the last 21 years.  Sunday Silence ran one tick faster the following year and I believe Free House and Indian Charley ran slightly faster.

Of course we all know what she did in her next race.  

Hildegard, Are you saying Secretariat ran against no one? Secretariat's main competition was what made Secretariat run the Derby in under 2:00 minutes, because that horse also ran the Derby in under 2 minutes (Sham, with 2 broken teeth)...and if Secretariat hadn't had Sham breathing down his neck in the Preakness...

Secretariat also raced against Forego, Riva Ridge, Cougar II, Kennedy Road, Key to the Mint, Tentam, Our Native...

DRANYNAY- did i not say that she is a good filly? Did I not say that she has the POTENTIAL to become a great filly? comprehend what you're reading before you make an attempt to twist my words ;)

Should Rachel take the Preakness (which I do hope that she does) she will be up there with Rags to Riches. Then; in my opion to test her further, she should run against Zenyatta... who im ny OPIONION (draynay) is the better horse. Zenyatta has been tested against better company then Rachel A. ... but Rachel is still a 3y/o and is on the improve.

Two recent posts have thrown around the names of all the in their opinions great horses that Secretariat beat.  He only beat one great horse.  That would be Forego, the problem is that he never beat Forego when Forego was great, meaning that was Forego was very immature and did not developed until after Secretariat was retired, Forego did not win his first stakes until 11/24/73.    Everybody uses Sham as a yardstick, Sham was the 1973 Santa Anita Derby winner, there has been one of these every year since 1935.  Riva Ridge was a nice horse, but certainly not any better than most duel classic winners of the 80’s, 90’s & 00’s.   Cougar II was a good handicap horse, but certainly not any better than a few dozen just like him in the last 50 years.

SHECKY GREENE was a champion sprinter, but he was no TaWee, he was closer to some champion sprinters of the last few years.

TenTam & Big Spruce were nice turf horses, but hardly in anybody’s top 20 turf horses of all time.  Key To The Mint & Kennedy Road were nice horses, but hardly great by any means.  ANNIHILATE 'EM & Our Native were bums, so to use them cheapens your argument.

Why do these Secretariat lovers not mention the likes of Onion, Prove Out & Angle Light, and at the same time use excuse’s 1.(A), 3.(B), 4. (D).

Let the onslaught begin.

The bottom line is that Rachel has won her last 5 races without being asked for anything.  No one knows how good she is.  I had the great pleasure of watching her win her two races at Oaklawn this year.  I have also had the great pleasure of seeing Azeri, Zenyetta, Eight Belles, Ginger Punch, Proud Spell, Ashado, Round Pond, and the often overlooked Happy Ticket run in person.  These are the great fillies and mares of the past few years and believe me Rachel belongs in this group.  She gives you goosebumps when she runs.  It doesn't really matter who she has beaten it is how she has run her races and the times that she ran them in without being asked.  For the record I do not want to see her run in the Preakness and neither should anyone else who truely cares about the horse.

COUGAR II was no better than any of the other handicap runners of the last 50 years? Is that right?

COUGAR II always carried top weight, and was almost always the favorite, and he probably would have won more races if not for that running style where lagged so far back early. Even still, he was a great horse, and here's why. COUGAR II ran in stakes races all his life, and had a record of 50 sts, 20 wins, 7 place, 17 show, which means he was only out of the money in 6 of his races. It should also be noted that he finished in the money in 30 of his last 31 races...I haven't found another horse with that sort of consistency. He ran consistently well on turf and dirt, from 1-1/16 miles to 2 miles. It's hard for a horse to be great doing everything, most horses have their niche. But COUGAR II was expected to win the San Juan Capistrano at 1-3/4 miles on turf in April and then come back in May and win the Californian Stakes, at 1-1/16 miles on dirt, and he did just that in 1971. I don't see any horses running today, at the top level of competition, who can do something like that.

COUGAR II defeated FORT MARCY, twice, and we all know that FORT MARCY was a great horse who was very competitive even against DR. FAGER and DAMASCUS. COUGAR won the 1973 Santa Anita Handicap, after being second in 1971 and 1972. COUGAR II defeated KENNEDY ROAD, UNCONSCIOUS, SUMMER GUEST, SUSAN'S GIRL,SHUVEE, TYPECAST, DRUMTOP and almost any and every other top horse seen in competition from 1970 thru 1973. He was pretty much regarded the best older horse, turf or dirt, in the United States from 1971 thru 1973, by many racing writers and fans.

COUGAR II won the 1972 Californian Stakes in 1:39-1/5 for 1-1/16 miles, which was the fastest race at that distance at Hollywood Park since SWAPS set the 1:39 track record in the 1950's. He also won the Century Handicap in 1972 in 2:11 (NAR) for 1-3/8 miles on turf, a record which stood for probably more than 15 years. He also won the Woodward Stakes, decimating the field (by 5 lengths), only to be disqualified.

How many horses do you see that can run in stakes races their entire career? And how many can be in the money in 30 of their last 31 starts, especially when they're doing everything (turf, dirt, middle distance, long distance, etc)? And how many horses manage to keep coming back, year after year, at the top of their game? COUGAR II accomplished a lot; he was a champion, he's in the Hall of Fame, and he's a great horse.

I could go on and on, and I would, except this is a thread about RACHEL ALEXANDRA.

SECRETARIAT beat several great horses: FOREGO and COUGAR II being two.

One more thing...If we're going to say that SECRETARIAT didn't beat anybody, and include COUGAR II in the "nobody" crowd, then how pitiful does BIG BROWN become, because, by comparison, he really didn't beat anyone! And RACHEL ALEXANDRA? Then she absolutely hasn't beaten anyone.

It's a slippery slope, and it's a ridiculous one (as they all are).

SECRETARIAT defeated some great and some very fine racehorses. BIG BROWN defeated some fine horses, but nothing great. While RACHEL ALEXANDRA has beaten some decent horses, and hasn't faced anything all that good as of yet. At the same time, you can only beat the horses that are in the race, so I can't fault RACHEL ALEXANDRA at this point.

The best filly in the world will be on display this weekend, only not in Baltimore.  

Goldikova will make her seasonal debut Sunday in France.  She's beaten the top boys on both continents and her losses to Zarkava can certainly be forgiven.

As for RA, she needs to accomplish far more to reach the pantheon.  The gates are ajar, but she's the one that needs to kick them open.

Secretariat's Marlboro Cup was at 1 1/8 mi vs older--in September...Riva Ridge, Cougar II, Key To The Mint..........also won TC, won twice on turf by wide margins...you simply could not see him and not percieve greatness.....like Big Brown....like 'Bid.....

As for Cougar II “carrying high weight”, he only ran twice with 130 lbs.  with one 2nd & one 3rd, so much for his weight carrying ability.  Go and study the history of Thoroughbred racing in America before you attach the label GREAT to a horse.  If Cougar & RA are great, then what are horses like Man O’ War, Roseben, Pan Zarita, Citation, Dr. Fager, Damascus, Kelso, Shuvee, Preakness, Discovery, Native Dancer, All Along, Seabiscuit, Secretariat, TaWee, War Admiral etc, etc, etc?  Perhaps they are Great Great Horses, or maybe Super Great Horses.  I have to laugh at the way the word great is thrown around.

Last but not least, if you pay credence to such things as many people do.  Where is Cougar II ranked in The Blood-Horse magazines List of the Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century?  Answer he isn’t, neither is Key to The mint.

Steven Crist put it best in his Racing Form blog a few days when he said that RA beat the worst Oaks field ever.  Now there is really no way of knowing this, but they were very, very bad.  So the 20 lengths means nothing.

Am I nuts or did someone on here just post that Big Brown was a great horse?

I don't know what it is about some people, about some racing fans, that they need to put down everything and diminish its significance. The people who look back at SECRETARIAT disdainfully not only are trying to diminish his greatness, but they also completely dismiss all the other horses that ran against him in 1972 and 1973. If you can diminish all the horses who ran in 1972 and 1973, especially by dismissing all the stakes winners (who are the best of the bunch) as being "nobody" then why are you a racing fan? If everyone is a "nobody" then I don't know what it is that you like about our great sport of horse racing.

SECRETARIAT's 1973 Marlboro Cup field was one of the best fields ever assembled for a race. I don't know if any race before or since has showcased five champions (SECRETARIAT, RIVA RIDGE, COUGAR II, KEY TO THE MINT and KENNEDY ROAD). If you can't appreciate the quality and greatness of that field, and can dismiss it out of hand, then I don't know what allure racing has for you. If the best horses are worthless then why bother associating yourself with racing?

COUGAR II was definitely in the top 2 or 3 older racehorses in the United States from 1971 thru 1973, both on turf and dirt. Seriously, he was one of the very best horses running each one of those years. Ignoring him, or dismissing him, seems ridiculous when he was either the best of the bunch, or very close to being the best, and if he was no good then what does that say for the other thousands of horses running at the time? Was everyone "no good"?

RACHEL ALEXANDRA and STARDOM BOUND get the same treatment, from the dismissive crowd, who color all their victories with disdain because they "didn't beat anybody." BIG BROWN got the same complaints. Horses can only beat horses that are in the race, they cannot beat horses who are sitting in the barn. And horses who are winning stakes race after stakes race, year in and year out, are the best of the crop and should be appreciated.

When I start perceiving every horse as "no good" and a "nobody" then I'll stop watching the races.

Just because the folks at The Bloodhorse didn't put COUGAR II in the Top 100 of the 20th Century doesn't mean he doesn't belong there. If I put the list together he surely would have been included. Others would have excluded him. So what? It's all based on opinion.

By the way, SHUVEE was great, you're right, and COUGAR II handled her with ease. DR. FAGER and DAMASCUS were great as well (yes, greater than COUGAR II), and I pointed out how FORT MARCY (another great horse) got beat by COUGAR II (twice) and FORT MARCY was very competitive racing against DR. FAGER and DAMASCUS.

ACK ACK made the 100 best list, and COUGAR II almost ran him down in the Santa Anita Handicap, after racing about 8 wide from the far turn to the stretch. Later that year, Charlie Whittingham scratched him from the Hollywood Gold Cup so ACK ACK would not lose. SUSAN'S GIRL made the Top 100 list (and she was great as can be) and COUGAR II beat her by 7 lengths. So I think I drew the appropriate conclusion about COUGAR II.

The Bloodhorse was remiss in omitting COUGAR, so I'm going to go out and buy the book and ADD MY OWN page on COUGAR II to the end of the book.  :)

I do, however, agree with you about how RACHEL ALEXANDRA's 20 length victory means nothing. I say that only because it indicates that the second horse (not to mention the rest) was very slow. It's not like RACHEL ALEXANDRA broke a track or world record, like SECRETARIAT. SECRETARIAT's 31 length romp meant everything because he lowered the track record by 2-2/5 seconds and set a world record to boot. That was a show of brilliance that we haven't seen before or after.

Unfortunately, I don't think Rachel A. will beat the boys. She has humiliated a bunch of not very good fillies. My vote goes to a tie between Personal Ensign (undefeated and brilliant), and the tragic Ruffian, whose potential was cut short by that foolish match race. If Ruffian had been handled wisely, it would have been no contest. She was flat out brilliant. When a horse that fast is SO insane for running, you have to respect that. Ruffian died trying to win, so I vote her a slight edge over Personal Ensign.

. Ruffian

2. Personal Ensign

3. Zakarva

4. Zenyatta

5. Silverbulletday

6. Azeri

^^^^ just a few that are better IMO

agree with the original post..

Thank you Mike S. for sticking up for Cougar II, I whole heartedly agree with you that Cougar II was one of the all time greats, too bad some of these bloggers either haven't seen his races or read about him. His duels with Ack Ack were classic and legendary. Again thank you.

I think it takes a graduated eye to identify potential "greatness" in a racehorse. Of course final times, company and trouble lines, winning margins, and pace scenarios are the normal tools utilized in ID'ing the next new star. However I believe how a horse did it is most important. My graduated eye tells me, and I'm obviously not alone, but prob' not for the same reason(s), that this will be our next "super" star-RA. Go ahead fry me to for saying it. I'm still dragging my jaw over her Oaks win, CB didn't even blink, I'd be suprised if he even took a breath. I'd bet that if RA was coming down the stretch just 5ft. from you that you wouldn't even hear her coming, or going. Not because of her speed either for what begets her speed is her motion. It is such an effortless stride that her feet barely hit the ground which creates her natural speed. Watch her Oaks closely- her effort( barely any), the jock's motion(none), if poss. video of winners circle( couldn't blow out a match), and we know that the jockey knows best so who's CB riding?  Perhaps those of us who can see this super talent, and I say "super" with just that purpose, just can't hold back our enthusiasm and let's face it-- the opportunity to say "I told you so", and making a couple of bucks never hurt.  So please play against RA and tell all your friends.  

And the whole Cougar II issue, he was so good they had to name him twice.  

Householder,

   In the Oaks RA ran her final furlong in 12 seconds w/o being asked. No way in hell can Zenyatta catch her coming from that far back. You can't look at times to tell the story, RA has the lead through the race most of the time and just gallops along. Zenyatta sits at the back and is made to speed up to catch others. Zenyatta if she faces RA will lose. No horse right now can close on RA.

Mike S.... I must say your May 13th 3:39 post is one of the most well written and well said post I have ever seen on these blogs. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. As an avid racing fan your post speaks volumes. All the horses running deserve our respect.

Preakness to answer your question I said about greatness--you KNOW it when you SEE it---like Secretariat, 'Bid, Brownie--it does not matter who they ran against--that was out of their control--but I stand by my observations--you know greatness when you see it--as for Cougar II only carrying 130lbs twice (and losing) Cougar GAVE much weight to everybody else for over thirty races in a row--all graded--give me a break!!

Great comments regarding Cougar II. I watched him run many at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park. He was true warrior, he always gave his best. There were some pretty good horses running during those days. Cougar II could run at pretty much any distance and on any surface. A couple of folks mentioned Fort Marcy. I also saw this brilliant horse run many times. He was argueably one of the top 10 greatest turf horses ever to run. But that is where it ends, Fort Marcy was brilliant on turf, Cougar II was great on dirt and turf. I might add that Fort Marcy was beaten by Dr. Fager and Advocator in 1968 in the "Docs" last race. That was the only time they ever ran against each other. I think the "Doc" carried 134 pounds and fought Advocator pretty much the length of the stretch to win. It was the first and only time the "Doc" ran on turf and it showed the world how great he was. I think he is listed at #5 in horse racing's top 100 thoroughbreds of the 20th century. I would rank him in the top 4 of all time along with Man O' War, Spectacular Bid and Secretariat. All 4 of these greats could beat each other on any given day. Cougar II though should rank in the top 100 mof all time, that is a no brainer.

The Preakness is over and RACHEL ALEXANDRA just danced into the record books as one of the great fillies of all time. "The Greatest"? I don't think so. But she surely is one of the greats. That was pretty amazing. And MINE THAT BIRD ran an excellent race as well, and I hope that everyone gets over it (their "shock" at his win in the Kentucky Derby) and just starts giving him the credit he deserves.

By the way, if any of you COUGAR II fans want a copy of a 30 minute DVD about COUGAR II (shows about 9 of his wins) please let it be known and I'll try to figure out how to get you a copy.

RA was purchased two weeks ago, is this correct? My question is her purchase price which I can not track down!

I hope that you all will take your blinkers off now and recognize just how truly special this filly is...and the best thing is that her career is just beginning.  She will go on to win many more big races.  I wouldn't be so quick to say she isn't the greatest of all time yet.  She overcame a lot of adversity yesterday.  After I saw how much she was struggling with the track at the beginning of the race, it was a wonder that she was still able to win.  

I think the primary reason I don't crown WAR EMBLEM, BIG BROWN and RACHEL ALEXANDRA "The Best of All Time," is because, first, I'm not Gary Stevens, and I happen to remember the past. Because I remember the greats of the past so clearly, and can recall that they ran year after year, it's hard for me to crown a horse "The Best of All Time" when they've only ran "great" during one season. Lots of horses have done that.

However, RACHEL ALEXANDRA is very impressive. I give her all the credit in the world. She is superb. MINE THAT BIRD is her equal, in my estimation. With a better trip he would have won yesterday. They're both excellent, though. Calvin Borrel sure is classic though - right after the race, which his horse won impressively, he starts whining about how she didn't handle the track and how she was "laboring." Of course she was "laboring"! It was the first time she ran against good horses! And she handled the track just fine. I think Calvin is under the impression that if she doesn't win by 20 lengths from now on that something "just isn't right." Everything is fine, she is a sensational filly.

Mike Smith kept calling RACHEL ALEXANDRA a "mare." I wonder why. Did 2 years just transpire in one day?

I've seen 'em all going back to Native Dancer and I'm sorry, but Rachel just isn't at the top yet, or all that close to it.

Its telling that they haven't run her at 1-1/4 miles yet, and that they flat out refuse to consider the Breeders Cup due to it being run on an artificial surface.  She beat a mediocre bunch of 3yo males, and staggered to the finish line doing it.  When Rags To Riches won the Belmont, she not only did so at 1-1/2 miles, she beat a horse named Curlin.  Remember him?

She'll probably beat the boys again in the Haskell, once again at less than a classic distance and a less than stellar field.  She'll probably whip her contemporaries in the Alabama.  But if she hooks Zenyatta, especially at any distance beyond 1-1/8 miles, she'll be running for second.

I definitely agree with you. Rachel is just a good horse. Her adoration is way overboard. IMO she is spot raced and overrated.

Spot raced and Overrated ?  Rachel is more accomplished as a 3 year old than Ruffian and you make that comment ?  She is having one of the top 3 year old campaigns by any horse in history.  Enjoy it and the history she is making.

i see alot of you guys and gals are hating on RA on here..I wonder what you are saying now??

What is with these Zenyatta can't beat Rachel BS?

Rachel is the one ducking the mare in the Breeders..

Get a clue people! get some dose of REALITY!!

Zenyatta has no qualms entering a race where horses all over the world can stop her unbeaten streak..and where's Rachel.

Yeah beating the same 2nd tier colts. Even Jess Jackson wants no part of the mare.

Synthetics..yeah sure..nice excuse when he and some of you posters keep bragging that kryptonite is the only thing that can beat rachel

Rachel is nothing but HYPE!

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