All of the new "experts" complain about certain stallions with huge stud fees making the breed less sound.  Yet, some of their babies still go on to awesome, sound careers- like Belle's relation Octave! Both fillies had dams who made many starts.  Both fillies awesome runners, unfortunately only one with a happy ending.  Should we deprive racing of an Octave because of a Belle?  Should we deprive owners of their right to make their own breeding choices? Stallion owners of their right to profit from those who want to send their mares?  Shall we take PETA's cue and turn owners into "guardians" of their horses- forced to meet the moral standards of animal rights activists by breeding foals that meet their standards?  Publish a thorough study of bloodlines that are shown to improve durability.  Then let the free market decide.   Allow American horsemen to retain their freedom over their own property.  Breakdowns will always happen.  In fact, look for alot more now that PETA will be providing the propoganda/stats/fundraising opportunities.

I completely agree with this article.  I've told people for years that the sales breeders and buyers are largely responsible for the sad state of affairs we have today.  They not only choose to breed to unsound animals (and/or stallions known to beget unsound offspring), but they INBREED to them, too. Eight Belles' pedigree is one of the worst I've seen in regard to potentially dangerous inbreeding - her fate shouldn't really have surprised anyone, especially when one considers how tall and heavy she was.  Please make changes that count!  Stop the "acceptable losses" policy that seems to be in effect, or this sport will continue to lose fans and eventually disappear.  

If only your suggestion, which I've thought for years, could come to fruition!  But in this industry, especially in its current state, it seems the idea may perpetually be a fantasy.  This issue is all the more frustrating since breeding with little regard to soundness only shoots our own industry in the foot, yet we keep on doing it.  For many people, and for understandable reasons, the bottom line is making as much money as you can right now.  Though many breeders must feel the current state of breeding in general is ultimately destructive, I'm sure they largely feel that they must follow these practices to survive in this game.  It's only logical that breeders should shy away from "animals with soundness and conformation issues" in order to produce better stock and preserve the integrity of the breed (or restore it, as it were).  Sadly, it seems clear that this has lately not often been the case.  However, it does seem that the tide may be starting to turn.  I applaud all those breeders who still maintain a very high standard in producing high-quality horses that are born as strong, sound, and conformationally correct as they can be.  You may be helping to save us in the long run.  Let us all, as always, remember that the number one priority is the health and safety of our horses.  They're not just products, and should not be dealt with as such.

If unsoundness were only a matter of conformation you'd be right. Other problems, bleeding for example, are fixed with drugs. That is why Europe sends their bleeders to the USA, where they do well. Eliminating drugs would reduce the success of bleeders at the track, reduce the stats of their sires and dams, and therefore reduce the contribution of bleeders to the gene pool.

That is just one example.

Another issue is that horses are disposable so if you have lots of money why not go for brilliance? It would help to have greater rewards for distance horses. The Belmont is our only 12 furlong dirt race - why breed for it?  Just hope there are no real 12 furlong horses when your horse needs to win it. We need more 12 furlong dirt races and more prestige for distance horses.

Amen

It will be interesting to see how the "Ghostzapper" offspring will hold up on the track. Considering that Ghostzapper could only run 4 times a year, I wonder how many times a year his offspring will be able to run.  I also wonder why that horse could only run 4 times a year.  There must be a specific reason as to why, and I will have a difficult time comprehending any reason other than unsoundness. Ruffian's Broadmare sire, Native Dancer, had problematic ankles throughout his career.  And her sire Reviewer, let's see, broke his leg how many times?? This poor filly had very little, if no, confirmation breeding in her pedigree. No wonder she was fatally injured.  She had the blinding speed, muscle, etc.. but she didn't have the strong underpinnings to support it all. I use her as an example because there is so much unsoundness throughout her pedigree I can not believe a breeder, or private breeder in this case, could completely throw out confirmation,, however, when it comes to raw speed, Native Dancer and especially Reviewer had it. It's just something to think about.  Even though her story is tragic, I'm glad I had an opportunity back in 1974-75 to see such a phenomenon, and we'll probably never see again. If I could go back in time and change things I would never had her be born because 33 years later it still brings tears to my eyes, and if it hadn't been for this ridiculous match race she would have went on to win the Travers.  Will never ever get over her.

The majority of breeders unfortunately focus on breeding marketable yearlings for the sales ring, and not necessarily for the track. This said, this is exactly what the trainers and owners are looking for. Precocious, fast 2 year olds promising a quick return on investment. Often at the expense of soundness. Also there are too few distance races (1-1/8 to 1-1/2 miles) and the horses run in sprint events even if they are not bred for this.

And then there is the drug issue. How can we allow to run these athletes with all the drugs here in North America? Why not just eliminate most of them like they do in Europe and Asia? They still have horse racing and there is always a winner! But the horses run longer and stay sounder.

Question: How many of this years Triple Crown contenders will run as a 4 year old?? Right, thought so.

There was a time when matings were made with an eye to (hopfully) correcting the faults of a mare.  A mare with bad knees didn't go to a stallion with bad knees, etc.

These days it seems that horses are bred for what looks good on a catalog page.

Storm Cat was the choice for any top class mare.  Thank goodness those days are now over.

Today's horses are bred to breed, no longer is the race horse bred to race.  It's all about having "a stallions pedigree".  

The breeding end of the industry is running and ruining the industry as a whole.

I wish the Jockey Club, as the breed registry, whould step up and put some restrictions on what horses are allowed to contribute to the breed.

At the top of my wish list would be disallowing horses who use race day meds.  I think any horse who needs race day meds should have there papers stamped that they are a non-breeding animal.

I couldn't have said it any better. It's all of the above! To make changing race tracks to softer ground the main push doesn't make sense. It's the tolerance for medications, the sale buyers/breeders, lack of soundness and bone, emphasis on speed, lack of emphasis on distance, lack of outcrosses, etc. I'm a Quarter Horse owner and we certainly have some issues in our breed, but there is more ability to outcross and avoid certain lines and problems. Or so it seems to me as a student of both breeds for thirty years and more...

E. Smith. Well Said. There is an old industry saying "slow horses can run fast enough to get hurt". Gods design of horses made their legs very vulnerable to injury if the right amount of weight and inertia are applied to the right spot at the wrong time. I lost a 14 year old Halo mare last month who had to be placed under anethesia to free a legs of the foal she was delivering. When coming out of anethesia in a padded operating room,my mare was standing up and she last her balance and made a very quick movement to catch her balance and her back legs snapped under the pressure. Horses break legs because of the design and physics play the determining role. Bones are not inheritly weak for sire lines, those lines just produce faster horses. Who is going to be the pioneer of breeding slower horses?

I completely agree, and I think the Jockey Club should start to crack down. But because so much money is involved with breeding stallions, I don't see them doing anything unless they are forced to by animal rights &  federal enforcement.

Restrictive breeding has done wonders for breeds such as the Friesians, and I think it's the only thing that can turn the Thoroughbred breed around.

People like E. Smith are the reason that there will always be breakdowns. Don't try to make things better, keep breeding to unsound stallions. Why not? Who cares if many foals are born with problems? Maybe one or two won't be. And dismiss PETA and other animal rights organizations as over-zealous quacks. With attitudes like this it is no wonder that these animals continue to become more and more fragile. Just pathetic.

Does anyone have stats on fatal breakdowns in Europe compared to the States?  I have watched quite  a few races across the pond and have not seen one horse go down. I would love to hear other opinions

on this subject. If Eupopean racing

is safer let's look at why and implement what it is they are doing

that protects horses and riders from injuries.

The new 12 furlong Breeders Cup Marathon is scheduled this year along with a couple more additions to the Breeders Cup Championship schedule. The idea being that a few new 12f Stakes prep races will be scheduled as well this year at various tracks to encourage breeding for this new prestigious race. So the movement to breed on endurance is starting.

Also, just my opinion, I don't think Lasix is the real drug that affects soundness within the breed. The widespread use of Bute is the culprit. Many states still allow this pain killer to be used on raceday!

Another major problem are horses racing on drugs. If a horse needs a drug to race (Lasix, etc..) then, in my opinion, they are not fit to be on the track.  Why would a horse need lasix.? to breathe better.  They should be able to breathe just fine with what mother nature gave them, lungs, and if they can not, get them off the track and out of the breeding shed. There should be NO DRUGS of any kind in their systems the day of a race.  Everything is drugs, drugs, drugs and more drugs for these animals. When does it end with the drugs.???

I too looked at Eight Belles pedigree after she broke down, and was not surprised to see Native Dancer and his son Raise a Native on both sides of her pedigree. For years I have been conducting an informal "study" of checking the pedigrees of every thoroughbred that I see or hear about who has broken down during a race. The majority of them have Native Dancer and Raise a Native on one or both sides of their pedigrees...these are two sires whose soundness and propensity to pass unsoundness onto their offspring has been known in the industry. Please read Bill Nack's books about Ruffian and Secretariat...he goes into a lot of detail about these issues, especially how Ruffian's pedigree may have contributed to her breakdown. Think about this...why were horses so much sturdier and why were there so many less breakdowns before the 1970's in this country? If breeders continue to use horses whose soundness is questionable, they will continue to perpetuate the weakening of the species, and the number of breakdowns will increase. This will only serve to hurt the industry, and the NTRA can forget about its current push to attract new fans to the sport then. Less fans = less money for all concerned in the industry. I fully support the idea that restrictions should be placed on breeding horses with "unsoundness" in their genes. Unless that is done along with implementing other rules that will directly affect the safety of racehorses, this sport will never return to its former splendor.

Why is everyone so quick to "point the finger"  I dont think anyone who invests in this industry is trying to do anything to sabatoge it (Breeding, track surface, etc..)

Ghostzapper may have only run 4 times in a year, but when he ran they were Graded Stake Events - and even won by 6 1/2 over OLDER HORSES at the age of 3! .  They kept him on the Track until the age of 5.  GIVE CREDIT to the connections for taking care of this horse and pointing him towards events that showcased his talent.   He ran against some pretty tough horses.  It shows your lack of knowledge in the industry!!

Why not require the infusion of Arabian blood by a certain year- within the next 3 generations- in order to be registered?  The more dense bone of this breed could bolster the fragile legs of today's Thoroughbreds.  This would go hand in hand with breeding for longer distances, also. It would be better to stay ahead of animal rights groups and be proactive, and who knows what the crosses could produce?

People who react defensively to constructive criticism of some industry need to think of the bigger picture. I don't think anyone feels that taking down specific people or sires, (the Ghostzapper, Unbridled Song, etc connections)is the solution. No one in racing is trying to sabotage it; but all people tend to have a short-sighted perspective and to be largely unaware of the long-term impacts of their choices. The problems are larger than any of us-they are at the system level. Many if not all of these trends started decades ago and now (most) trainers are doing the best they can with the horses they've got-for example, it doesn't matter how kind they are if they inherit a fashionably bred horse whose legs are full of microfractures from early stress and genetic weaknesses. People going through the years made choices-usually for their own personal interests-that they may not have anticipated would have long-term consequences that are coming back to haunt us. New owners want to win so they buy the high dollar horses and the market pressures are a negative feed-back. Changing the racing conditions to emphasize (with purses) handicaps for older horses would help correct some of the problems. There are also new approaches being taken, such as "horsesfirstracing" in the U.K. Finally, none of these concerns are new, and many people in the industry have been talking about them for years-as well as taking action-the "horsesfirst" group involves some top-notch lifelong horsemen. It amazes me that people such as "KG" and "E Smith" resort to the claim that anyone who is concerned about the long-term health and future of racing and has the honesty to point out areas where we could do better is somehow "uninformed"! Dr. Bramlage? Dinny Phipps? Jerry Bailey? These are hardly "new experts"! Fortunately for the rest of us, these people are industry leaders who are willing to put the future of racing above their immediate interests by tackling tough issues and considering changes that may ensure there IS a Thoroughbred industry in the future.    

Now we hear that Big Brown will not race beyond his 3 year old campaign. Surely there is a concern for his value as a stallion$$  I totally agree with this article.  Thinking back to Round Table and Seabiscut .... more than 60 starts each and raced well beyond 3 year old ..... and lived to sire many quality foals.

I find it interesting Cigar came into his own (we all know what that meant) after the age of five.

Cigar actually preferred dirt to grass but then, by the time he raced on dirt, he was five.

No matter what all the horse vets and experts express, it seem the older a young cold or mare gets, the better. A two year old is a two year old. Period.

John Galbreath bred horses for soundness and he won the Epsom Derby and the Kentucky Derby. However animal rights activist should stay clear. Part of being an American is the freedom to make your own choices with your own livestock. I think a rule prohibiting Fillies and Mares from running against the boys would be a much better way to go.

Connie, I don't have any statistics regarding injury rates in Europe. However, perhaps the Europeans focus more on stamina than speed. Their horses also run on grass, which I suspect are meticulously well maintained, and thus kinder to horses than the dirt surfaces that our American horses race on. However, I don't think that the dirt surfaces by themselves are culpable, but the fact that some dirt surfaces are speed favoring which leads me to believe they're more like a speedway than a track. And that can't be too good for horses. To my knowledge, drugs, including Lasix and all steroids, are also banned in Europe.

If there's a disparity between injury rates across the pond and over here, perhaps these factors are some of the reasons.

You can't breed horses with money or paper to paper, you breed horse to horse.  If you breed a unsound mare to and unsound stallion - chances are (more than likely) you will get an UNSOUND horse.  This industry (the horse industry - race horses, hunters/jumpers, saddlebreeds, AQHA & APHA etc..) is not about the "love" of the horse it is about the money.  The horse is just in the way now.  Remember no foot no horse.

To the guy who implicated the Native Dancer line in this discussion of soundness issues.  I believe his post oversimplifies the issues with the Native Dancer line.  I have two broodmares, both with dominant Native Dancer lineage, and both of these mares were "Hard Knockers" one raced to six the other to seven, both had over 30 career starts.  By your logic this fact alone defies your entire post.

The fact is every popular bloodline today has some issues.  It's our responsibility as breeders to first know the issues a stud has and pair a mare with him that might correct any problems.  Just because the Storm Cat progeny is famous for having knee problems doesn't mean I won't breed to that line.  I have and will continue to, I just breed to that line with mare's that have very straight and correct knee's.  So far I haven't had a problem.

To outlaw a line because of a conformation defect is silly because there is no line that is entriely correct in conformation 100 percent of the time.

In my mind soundness issues arise with running horses that aren't mature enough to run.  Not to say we shouldn't run two year olds, but if they aren't ready, maybe it's better to wait until they are three befor their first start.  I've faced this question many times, and when in doubt, I waited for the horse to be ready...

Ghostzapper didn't go into the Dubia World Cup because they didn't want to face Roses In May again at another 1 1/4 miles. Instead he goes into the Met Mile, he wins, but is injured. Hmmmm. What do you think would have heppened to that horse in Dubia if he'd had run in the World Cup.  Breakdown, that's why they chose the Met Mile, something easy for the horse that's falling apart. And what happened after the race that they had to retire him?  I'll tell you what happened, he was unsound yet again. I also wonder why Ghostzapper never ran on the California tracks. Wasn't his trainer (bobby frankel) California based. Oh wait, maybe the California tracks weren't kind those unsound legs of his. I've heard rumors the California tracks, at the time, were hard surfaces.  Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if he even would have ran in the Breeder's Cup that year if it had been held at a California track.  Isn't that strange, the trainer is in California, the horse is with the trainer, but can only run on tracks outside of California.  Very strange. But, it's all about speed and breeders will be more than happy to shell out, what, $200,000 to breed to him. So in a few short years maybe the world will see another Ruffian and everyone should know that story.  Makes me wonder, yet again, how many times that foal will be able to run, or stand up for that matter. And it's not just Ghostzapper, there are many other stallions out there spreading around their genes for unsoundness, and the television viewers will get to see one of their offspring breakdown right before their very eyes. That's why the horse wasn't able to go to Dubai, his connections weren't sure if he'd hold up so they needed to find something easy for him and those unsound legs of his.  Keep breeding though, these horrible breakdowns on television are great for the racing industry. Instead of airing the races on NBC, they should start airing them on the extreme sports channel for the sicko's out there who enjoy watching catastrophies. Im sure the racing industry will have no trouble finding a market for those who enjoy watching sports catastrophies involving injury and death.  That's were it's headed.  What a lovely sport, enjoy!

he ran against some tough horses, really,  which ones? Oh, I forgot, St. Liam, and Roses in May, would those be the ones.? You should go into comedy. But, don't worry because his unsound offspring on the track should rekindle memories of him for you. I remember Dr. Fager, Riva Ridge, Shuvee, Cougar II, Arts n Letters, Secretariat, No Double, Forego, Spectacular Bid, Big Spruce, Foolish Pleasure, Bold Forbes, Royal Glint, Seattle Slew, Exceller, Affirmed, Genuine Risk, Cigar.  Those were tough horses, Because it's obvious that you do not know what a tough horse is, so now you can consider yourself educated by someone who has such a lack of knowledge of the industry.  I saw many of these horses in person while you were probably still running around in your diapers. At least I know what a tough horse is.

The last thing we need is The Jockey Club making rules as to which horses may be used for breeding.  What qualifies any member to make that kind of decision?  There is no consistency in the way TJC applies all it's current rules.  Few, if any, of the members are hands-on horsemen.

In fact, TJC by using it's role as Keeper of The Stud Book, has spawned so many money-making enterprises it now has countless conflicts of interest.

As part of the revolution our industry needs, TJC should divest The Stud Book.  It should be turned over to the TOBA or a new, democratic entity formed for the purpose.

You hit the nail right on the head. However, you're failing to touch upon all the insane inbreeding to NEARCO (through sireline descendents of Bold Ruler and through Northern Dancer) and Native Dancer. How are we supposed to save a breed that the breeders have mangled? Conformation is just part of the problem. Inbreeding compromises soundness as well.

No doubt there are some stallions who are known for not throwing sound horses, but I think the truly savy racehorse racing managers, trainers and owners in the industry know this and avoid those bloodlines.  Not only does the industry need to change its approach to the breeding aspect, the owners and trainers need to step up the plate as well and rethink their responsibilities.  I raced in France for two and a half years and made a point to observe and learn their training techniques.  Their horses sometimes do not run until late 3 y.o. or at times, 4 y.o.  They are not hammering on 2 y.o.s to be blown out 3/8's at sales as we do here in the U.S.  The Europeans condition, condition and condition more and focus on the horse's health and soundness before they are run.  They run when they are ready and mature enough.  Oh, and our owners must step up to the plate as well.  For example, why did the owner of Eight Belles stand by and allow her trainer, who weighs 180+ lbs. to gallop this young filly.  I find in the better race stables for the average exercise rider to weigh no more that 140-150 lbs.  Come on guys, use some common sense here.

Racing has become a business dominated by commercial breeders instead of breeders breeding to race.Unfortunately, the buyers demand brilliance .With the consequences being horses that are unsound and never race after their 3 yearold year-if they get that far.Excessive medication is another big problem which needs to be drasticly curtailed. FInally, more races are need for horses that are stayers even though today we have few true ones.None of these things is likely to happen as the industry is far too disjointed and self destructive and will act only when its probably too late..

So, now Big Brown is the next super horse to race a handful of races and retire at age three.  Why would the racing industry want this horse to win the Triple Crown?  I say make the Triple Crown for 4 or 5 year olds.  Eliminate Breeders Cups for 2 year olds and create more distance/turf racing.  Eliminate race day medication.  Let's challenge (incent) breeders and owners to develop a stronger, more stamina influenced horse.  You know, like we used to.  Then, when a horse of incredible talent and potential marketing force comes on the scene, they'll be around longer than 3 months before they retire.  

I'm very disappointed in what I've been able to read about the necropsy report on Eight Belles. First, I was hoping there would be something about her physical maturity. Her size and stage of development seem to be issues. Second, I was expecting they would honor Larry Jones' request to check for steroids. Sure Larry makes me angry sometimes, especially with his whining about Street Sense, but he's a breath of fresh air for the sport and I root for him and his horses. He does have some very nice horses.

Many of the points addressed have their merits.  No one has addressed the differences in the nutrient content of the feed fed these horses now, compared to the nutrient content of the feed in the 1970's.  Also, what about care methodologies?  Some trainers, as a matter of routine practice, stand the horse in ice water on a daily basis.  I do understand that cold will reduce inflammation, but to do this on a routine basis when there isn't any medical reason to do so could be asking for trouble.  Cold will retard blood flow, which would then retard the healing properties of the blood.  Have any studies been done about how bone reacts to freezing temperatures; such as causing the bones to become brittle? Add to that the ligaments,tendons, hoof wall, etc.,

all the elements of the legs.

What about not spending the bulk of their time outside?  Is this a problem of not enough money to provide such an environment?  Or is it because these horses spend most of their time moving from track to track, the trainers don't own any property where they can send them for out time?  Tracks don't have enough room to provide such facilities?

What about waiting for the more fragile bloodlines to mature more(not race at 3)?  Money invested.

I hope some of these questions will be answered by those who have been slated to fill the various commissions and committees designed to look at racing safety. "Course there is that old adage, "If you want something to take forever, give it to a committee".

Did you decide to censor my Comments about The Jockey Club being the last body we need to decide on breeding?

If so, the "Establishment" welcomes you.

To the team at Duncan Ranch Bloodstock...I am glad that your 2 broodmares from Native Dancer lineage were able to race as long as they did, however the fact that they did does not negate the truth of my post. Obviously not EVERY horse bred from that line will break down....but one cannot help but find a connection through a little research.  You are right in saying that there is more than one line with conformational defects however the fact that you knowingly continue to breed your horses to sires with these known defects only serves to prove my point - that you, and so many other breeders such as yourselves, care nothing for the longevity of this sport or the animals themselves as long as you are lining your pockets with money.

In about 15-20 years from now people will bet on horse races not for who is going to win, place or show,  but for who doesn't break down.  Who's left at the finish is how it will be some day soon. They performed an autopsy on Eight Belles and they found nothing.  This doesn't surprise me because I never thought she was being juiced.  I always will feel that she was whipped and pushed to her absolute limit. Her body, legs and determination could carry her no further.  She was literally raced to her demise. By using a whip to hit her and FORCE HER to go faster, because she wouldn't have done that on her own, her body gave out when she had nothing left to give.  That poor filly was so exhausted she was unable to take one more stride and all her weight, energy and everything she had left in her came crashing down on those paper thin Native Dancer related ankles.  What is going on here, can nobody figure this out with some simple common sense.  This accident wasn't freak either.  This happens to horses when they are EXHAUSTED.  It is that difficult of a concept to understand.?  A tired horse,  nothing left to give, trying to come to a stop but so exhausted that their last stride is literally their last stride. The horseracing industry must think the public is stupid.  Jerry Baily's on tv yesterday with Randy Moss discussing the Eight Belles accident and all the improvements that have been made to racing and he says that great strides have been made as to laminitis.  Is he kidding, or what.?  Great strides have been made with laminitis,  since when, because it killed Barbaro last year and continues to kill horses every day. The horse racing industry taking out both sides of their mouths.  Does anybody know what happens to race horses in Puerto Rico that can not make it on the track?  Pick up a copy of the Sarasota Herald tribune today,  and you'll find out more about this lovely sport that kills horses every day.

Happy to see you changed your mind and published my comments on The Jockey Club.

I applaud your courage. I hope it may be an example for our industry media.

I think the most effective ways to encourage breeders to select sounder crosses, and buyers to select the sounder bloodlines are incentive and transparency. First, increase the number of high value races available only to older horses, and increase the number of distance races, especially important distance races.

Second, transparency is a vital part of recovery and reform. This business  keeps statistical measures of every possible value that might provide a key to the winning edge, except for the one most important value that could help guide breeders and owners to make informed decisions in the breeding shed and the sales ring. It is time to provide very specific records of breakdowns and allow the rationale of the market to drive the future of the breed.  

Don't worry, I know how radical these ideas are, I'm not holding my breath...

Who is listening, or rather who is reading the comments here and at all of the other sites related to Thoroughbred racing?  

Clearly not the ones who have it in their 'grasp' and power to reverse the utterly detrimental physical state that these beautiful horses are now laboring and losing their lives in.

Do you really think the people who are the racing industry really care about these horses other than the money or the massage their egos

receive?

Studies have been conducted, conferences and forums have been held, more committees have been formed to yet study the same issues ad infinitum.  The powers that be don't really care what you and I think, that is why nothing will change for these wonderful and beautiful athletes that the rest of us cherish.

TO:  C. Callaghan

I don't appreciate you misrepresenting what I stated plainly in my post.   I admit that I stated that I wouldn't necessarily shy away from a line because it has some known issues, but here is the key part of my post, I would breed to that line “IF” I think I have a mare that would strengthen those weakness' and benefit from the strengths' of that particular line, then yes, I will breed to that line without reservation.  My point is this...now listen closely...don't mess it up this time...There is no line in any breed of horse that is entirely conformationally correct, AND would throw that "correctness" 100 percent of the time.  Sorry, it just doesn't exist in this flawed world of ours.

Now you can blame the Native Dancer line all you want, heck from what I understand about your previous post you would like to outlaw it, but the fact is Native Dancer blood shows up in more that 65 percent of horses bred in North America.  So to say that Native Dancer is the root of all evil might look right on paper, but when you look at it on a per capita basis, I seriously doubt they have any more catastrophic break downs than any other line.  According to the Jockey Club in 2007, basically 1.98 horses have a catastrophic breakdown for every 1000 horses that run a race, that is down from 2.35 in 1975 (Back in what you described as the glory days of racing) but no one keeps statistics on horses that end their career on an injury that is not catastrophic.  Now, If you can supply proof that Native Dancer is to blame, I would love to see those statistics.  I can’t find them anywhere…  Just because a couple of famous horses have a lineage on their paper’s that is from a dominant line in North America anyhow, and they break down is hardly conclusive evidence of a problem with that line.

You talk about how I’m lining my pockets with money, oh if my banker could only get so lucky…Tell you what, call me a heartless moneygrubber when you’ve stayed up till three in a morning on a freezing night trying to teach a new born foal from a maiden mare how to nurse.  Or when you’ve rushed that foal to the vet with diarrhea, and stayed there for hours keeping it calm while they run it fluids.  Call me a money grubber when you’ve had to put down your first brood mare who turned thirty last month and hasn’t had a baby in seven years, but you kept her around because you loved the old girl.  Call me a money grubber when you spent three hundred dollars to have her buried on your farm rather than seventy five to have her hauled off to the rendering plant.  Tell you what buddy….call me a money grubber when you make your living from these magnificent animals.  We love them, we cry over them, we cheer them…it’s a personal relationship, and something you will never understand until you’ve actually done it.

In closing, the whole point of my previous post was to say that you were wrong in implicating one single line as the whole problem of durability in the breed.  Our durability issues go deeper than a few high profile catastrophic breakdowns.  It’s the three year old that ends his short career with chips in his ankles, or the two year old that gets just one or two outs then bows a tendon.  As a breeder I try to breed horses that are fast and durable.  Anything else won’t pay the bills, and yes, even though I love my horses, it is a business.  My thinking related in my previous post was that we would have less breakdowns, not if we stayed entirely away from the Native Dancer line, but if we let our horses tell us when they were ready to run.  Some horses mature faster than others, and some just aren’t ready to run as a two year old, or even a three year old.  It’s just that simple.  If we wrote more races for four year old and older horses there might be less pressure to get that horse to the track as a two year old.  I believe that therein lies the real key to the durability issues we face.

TO C CALLAGHAN AND FORMERFAN:

The reason you see Native Dancer blood in horses that breakdown is because almost EVERY top horse that is/was racing has Native Dancer blood.  So do all the great ones who DON'T break down which is by far the vast majority! Stop trying to blame that great horse whose had an amazing influence on the breed for the unfortunate accidents that sometimes occur in racing!

To C. Callaghan and FormerFan:

If either of you have studied pedigrees you will see that Native Dancer does not just appear in the bloodlines of horses who have broken down.  Rather you will see that he appears in the bloodline of just about EVERY top horse racing today and for the past many years and guess what..?  The vast majority of those have NOT broken down!  He was an amazing horse who did things "unsound" horses couldn't even begin to do (such as: racing 4 times in one month as a 2 year old and racing 6 times in 10 weeks through his triple crown series!). He was badly managed but that was not his fault!  He has been an incredible influence on the breed so stop trying to blame him for today's accidents!!  

Did I say something wrong that my two posts have not appeared?  Sorry if so....?

One thing I can't understand that I keep hearing over and over is that horses today aren't being bred for soundness.  Why on earth would any breeder NOT be concerned with soundness?  Does that even make logical sense?  There are thousands and millions of dollars at stake in breeding and sales as well as racing so why would a breeder want unsound horses representing them..?

I don't believe that horses are any more unsound today than in the past.  There are a much greater number of horses running now and there is a HUGE amount of publicity surrounding injuries--that is why is seems so much worse.  Today's trainers also race the horses much more lightly and owners retire them to stud early for the huge income but that does NOT mean that these horses are not capable of doing what their ancestors did.  It isn't attempted so everyone assumes they can't handle it - but how do we know....? There seems to be a whole lot of assumptions out there.

This is a wonderful discussion. Very informative. An Eyeopener to the casual fan.

It seems to me that several suggestions could be immediately adopted. Such as dump the drugs. Others will take more time and a change of mindset.

As long as horses are owned by corporations, such as Big Brown, and traded with a Wall Street mentality, horses like Big Brown suffering from inferior feet will be raced on seeking the Triple Crown on hooves built up with epoxy, fiberglass or some other such material, cracks "laced" together with wires and their shoes glued on.

BB is a precocious, speedy colt. But he's just a colt with bad feet. I pray for him, every race, that his feet won't fail and he'll make the circle safely.

Former Fan, this is kind of off the topic, but when you mentioned what happened in Puerto Rico to horses who don't make it on the track, well, right here the same happens daily.  I personally am more concerned about what is happening every single day to horses that can't win a race - their fate.  Plenty to go slaughter as there just isn't enough homes for them.  Why can't they just be euthanized humanely.  But, that is a different topic.  I just had to throw that in though

Duncan Ranch-

Now I believe it is you who needs to "listen close and get it right this time". I never said Native Dancer was the only horse with conformational defects (obviously). Not every horse with his lineage will break down (obviously). But trying to use certain broodmares to correct out known conformational faults rather than choosing animals of quality who are conformationally sound and demonstrate the ability to pass their durability onto their progeny is only hurting the industry. I am NOT the only one saying this. Did you see the round table discussion prior to the Preakness? Even the "experts" like Dr. Larry Bramlage stated in the discussion and in interviews following the Eight Belles breakdown that current breeding practices are a large contributor to the fragility of the thoroughbred, and that many breeders are choosing speed over durability. The NTRA admits that breeding practices need to be looked into. Bill Nack goes into enormously detailed discussions about pedigree and breeding in his books on Ruffian and Secretariat, including discussions about the Native Dancer line. He knows his stuff about pedigrees and the information is out there...I recommend his books to anyone who wants to learn more about this aspect of the industry.

And let's get real, you wouldn't be in the breeding business if you weren't making good money at it, because it's a lot of work and no one would do it if it wasn't profitable. For every non-productive mare that you keep around because you are fond of her, how many do you dispose of because they aren't earning their keep? I think it's easy for you to tell me to walk a mile in your shoes before I express my opinion but really I could same the exact same to you. Every week I work around horses who have come off the track crippled, lame and mostly forgotten. Some are only two or three years old but you'd think they were much older by the way they hobble around. Just like you, I work around horses too but I don't ask anything of them, just try to help them live out the rest of their lives pain-free and in peace. Most of the time when we are scraping for funds to care for these horses we find ourselves asking...where are the breeders and owners now? How much concern do we see on their part over the fate of these horses that have put money in their pockets when they were racing? And too often the answer is this...not a DAMN PENNY'S WORTH OF CONCERN.

The fate of these racehorses after racing is a serious problem.  Look at Little Cliff.  A former Nick Zito trained horse who ended up at a feedlot and was saved from slaughter by a rescue Organization.  This was just recently, however it happens all the time.  Little Cliff was lucky because another day or two on that feedlot and he may have been no more.  Either way though,  he was a goner if this rescue group didn't buy him and pay slightly more than the butcher guy to acquire him. This horse was in Nick Zitos barn just a few years ago.  My point here is that Nicks wife had put a label on the jockey club papers indicating to the current owner that if Little Cliff needs a home after racing to please contact her.  The current owner did not give a hoot and sent him down the river. MONEY.  Unfortunately, There more low lifes in this industry then there are good people and his wife can not possibly place every single retired thoroughbred but breeders can get involved and some have,  but like I said this sport will always have more low lifes than good people.  That's what hurts the horses and the sport the most.  Not to mention all the DRUGS and steroids these animals need in order to perform. Its ludicrous that any healthy animal would need Lasix to run.

Callaghan

You still don't get what I'm saying because you want to believe in a paradigm that I'm not even talking about...

As a breeder I try to breed horses that are fast AND durable.  EVERY line has known defects, even if one particular stud from that line exhibits excellent conformation and had good durability, he can still throw that defect that exists in his blood.  As a breeder, my job is to first, know what those defects associated with that particular line are, and then pair a mare with that line that will maximize the strengths and minimize the weakness'.  THERE IS NO PERFECT LINE OF HORSE!!!  It's the only way to get a horse that is durable and can still have the jets to win a race...

Believe it or not, I'm with you on some of what you say.  In my post I talk about how they don't keep statistics on non-catasrophic breakdowns.  And they should, it would help the industry.  When we retire a horse from the track we should have to send in retirement papers with the reason the horse is being retired.  Those statistics would be enormously helpful as a breeder.  Statistics on Catastrophic breakdowns are almost meaningless, because statistically, it is such a fluk.

I would have to be an idiot to NOT use the Storm Cat line in my breeding program just because there is an occasional issue with thier knee's (SOMETIMES).  There are so many good things about that line, speed, conformation, duribility, etc, etc, but I would have to be an equal idiot to breed a mare to a Storm Cat lineag stud if she has known issues with her own knee's.  Admitedly, If I do that, I'm just asking for trouble.  Doe's it happen, of course it does, would I do it...not a chance.  But, if we had the stats on non-catastrophic breakdowns, and buyers could see that horses from a particular breeder are more apt to break down, belive me, that breeder would change his ways or quickly be out of business.

Look, I run horses as well as breed them, and I want speed and durability.  If one of my colts only gets an out or two then bows a tendon.  I just lost a ton of money.  If I sell a horse that only gets a couple of outs, then chips an ankle, or bows a tendon.  That buyer is probably not going to be happy.

The whole jist of my post is that I believe that in large part the problems we have today is not the breeding, or the Native Dancer line, most of these horses are pretty correct conformation wise and could be very durable if we let them mature enough before we put them in training.  We need to stop running horses that aren't ready for the track yet, big gangly two year olds and even three years olds that simply aren't mature enough to run, should not run.  We need more, and better races for older horses, that might relieve the pressure to get a horse to the track as a two year old, just to have a shot at the big money.

They always use the statistic that there are No More Catastrophic Breakdowns in two year olds than any other age group, but I would wager any amount of money that two year olds and early three year olds have more NON catastrophic breakdowns than any other age group...anyone wanna take my bet???

Don't lay it all off on the breeder's guys, there are more problems with racing practices than just how we pair our mares to our studs...

Callaghan.

Now on to your "Other" questions about my operation.

Do I make money?  Obviously I try to.  Am I rich? No.  But this ranch has been in my family for more than eighty years no.  I am the fourth generation of my family to manage it.   (We are also a working cattle ranch), and I daresay I do it for a lot more than the money, since I could probably sell my land and get a much better return on other investments.

How many horses do I dispose of because they aren't earning their keep? Some, but I generally do this when they first come off of the track, and I have been more sucessful and get a bigger return on my investment by training the horses for other diciplines, such as barrel racing, hunter jumper, dressage, pollo, so on and so forth.

Since there is no viable killer market in Texas anymore we have had to become more creative with what we do with our cull stock.  I would much rather take a little time and train a horse to run a barrel pattern for some little girl and get 2,500 to 5,000 for that horse than just take it straight to the sale and get 200.

Do all breeder's do this, no, but I can't speak to their practices, I can only speak to mine.

I've got to say, I preffered it when we had a killer market in Texas, to me it was SO much more humane than what they do in Mexico now, and it got useless horses out of the market.  Right now we have way too many horse running around out there and it is devalueing the entire horse market.  That makes it hard on the entire industry, and I daresay, your line or work as well, though I expect you will differ on that opinion.

Now I didn't sell too many "Killer's" when we had a killer market, I trained our horses in other diciplines even back when Morton was still running, and while I do LOVE my horses, I keep in mind that they are still livestock, and not "Pets".

Now that doesn't absolve breeder's from caring for their animals, and it certainly doesn't absolve me, but I do love my horses and they are well cared for. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love it, and I wouldn't own the animal if I couldn't care for him in an appropriate manner. I daresay I could make more "Money" doing other things.

I hope this answer's your questions about my heartless lil ol' operation out here in West Texas.  I will say, I appreciate what you are doing with regards to horse rescue, and I understand it takes an activist mentality to do that, but I hope you will at least try to understand that not all of us are just in it for a quick buck.  I do not share all of your views, but I can appreciate where they come from.  I would expect the same courtesy.

I read the comments on here, and I have owned and trained both thoroughbreds and standardbreds. Here's my take

a) It takes a LOT of money to breed raise, and train a horse. A racehorse gets the finest of care of any animals save a loved cat or dog. To the most part they are NOT PETS.

b) They are bred to run fast, because that is what the sport/business requires to succeed. There are exceptions, and I love thoroughbreds, but on the whole they are not particularly smart, calm, or lovable as some other breeds of horses or other animals, they are fast though. They run with 110-130 lbs on their back in competition, which is not the way nature intended. Again, they were over many years of select breeding developed by humans to show speed for the sport of racing. They breed cats without hair, cattle, poultry with unnatural weight to make them unsuitable for life off the farm to survive, it is business people-is it fair-maybe not, but during their careers they are pampered. The thoroughbred would not exist and become extinct if not for racing.  Chickens and cows are pent up in a small area until they are killed for meat-is that fair? By luck of the draw humans rule the world, whether by grand design or not we are the strongest. The strongest always have treated lesser animals AND PEOPLE poorly for either food or sport. See the Roman Empire-its just the way it is.

c) Peta members/those who think horse racing is inhumane if looking for causes what about Darphor genocide, world hunger, or maybe boxing, for a cause? (Anybody have a verbal discussion in the last ten years with Mohamed Ali?) What about these no holds barred fighting events? Yes being human, they have a choice animals don't but like horses if they are good at what they do-they are pampered.

d) Football, hockey, rugby, or even non-contact baseball, watch the injury reports, people are maimed and killed on occasion. I ran track and played hockey, I have had two operations on my knee, teeth knocked out; thoroughbreds are not exclusive to sports injury. All unnatural pressures to perform on any form of life might cause injury it is part of the game. Drugs used, obviously are not limited to horses for better performance. Should we end all sports because of risk of injury?

Maybe we should force models to eat, get rid of *** implants, botox, and breed hardier women while were at it. Midgets shouldn't marry each other, nor sickly people, or people with gene pools that are likely to pass on hereditary diseases, why stop at racehorses? People- they are bred to run fast for our gambling urges, that is why they still exist as a species cruel or not!

Shocked I did not get hate mail for my thoughts above directly on the topic, although it made a lot of sense if you think about it. It is what it is.