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Battle in the Breeding Shed: Hard Spun Vs. Street Sense

Street Sense and Hard Spun were rivals on the racetrack, and Street Sense got most of the glory. He was the champion 2-year-old colt of 2006, and he defeated Hard Spun by 2 ¼ lengths in the 2007 Kentucky Derby Presented By Yum! Brands (gr. I). Street Sense also finished second to Hard Spun's third in the Preakness Stakes (gr. I).

The two hard-knocking competitors now are stallions at Sheikh Mohammed's Darley operation in Kentucky, and grade I winner Hard Spun (by Danzig) holds the early edge in the battle for supremacy in the breeding shed.

A recent report in The Blood-Horse MarketWatch ranked Hard Spun No. 1 among stallions that entered stud in 2008 based on a figure known as the comparable index (CI), which is a measure of mare quality. Hard Spun's CI was 3.70 while second-ranked Street Sense had a CI of 2.76. Hard Spun had the largest book of any first-year stallion, covering 181 mares, while Street Sense covered 157.

Hard Spun was the North American leader again among new sires at the end of 2008, after 14 of the mares that were in foal to him sold at public auction for an average price of $356,571. Street Sense (by Street Cry) was second again, with nine mares pregnant by him selling for an average of $322,222.

According to Charlie Boden, Darley America's stallion nominations manager, two factors helped Hard Spun get off to a faster start as a stallion than Street Sense. One was Hard Spun's strong performance in the last race of his career, and the other was his lower stud fee.

Hard Spun ran for the final time in 2007 Breeders' Cup Classic -- Powered By Dodge (gr. I) and finished second, 4 ½ lengths behind Curlin, who would be voted Horse of the Year.  Street Sense was fourth, beaten by 10 ¼ lengths.

"Hard Spun ended his career in a very courageous fashion and left a great taste in everybody's mouth," Boden said. "He also is a Danzig with speed that lasted. Street Sense, bless his heart, the Classic was the only race he ran where he was off the board, and it was on a (sloppy) racetrack at Monmouth Park that he hated. For early demand (for stallion seasons), I think people remember the last race. I have struggled with what made Hard Spun more popular early, and I think it was that last race in the Breeders' Cup against Curlin."

Hard Spun entered stud with a fee of $50,000 while Street Sense had a fee of $75,000.

"Hard Spun came in at a price that, I think, may have been a foreshadowing of things to come, in retrospect," Boden said. "We could have priced Street Sense differently, but in our minds, he deserved to be at $75,000 because he was so special and did what he did. It made great sense. But I think breeders, after the (Keeneland) September sale of that year (2007), were left with a feeling that they didn't need to breed to a real expensive stallion. The difference between $50,000 and $75,000 weeded out a lot of people (from the group considering Street Sense). From $50,000 to $75,000, at that time, was a big step, especially if it involved an unproven horse. But they both ended up with plenty of mares their first year."

Who do you think will end up being the better sire, Hard Spun or Street Sense?

 

 

50 Comments:

I think another reason why Hard Spun got a hot start at the sales is that he is by Danzig - a proven sire of sires. Street Sense is by a very good, but young sire in Street Cry, and nobody knows if he will throw a good sire yet.

releasethehounds 08 Jan 2009 4:17 PM

Hard Spun!

MRO 08 Jan 2009 4:38 PM

In my opinion, Hard Spun will prove to be the better sire, based upon his conformation and versatility on the racetrack.

kg 08 Jan 2009 4:50 PM

I think Hard Spun will be the Alydar of that crop.  He has bloodlines to die for and he could carry his speed to the classic distance.  Plus - he just had such heart and competiveness on the track - but seemed like he also had a good mind.  

Nothing against Street Sense or Curlin, for that matter - but if you ask me now - Hard Spun will be the winner in the breeding shed, even if he was second on the track!

Cgriff 08 Jan 2009 4:59 PM

Hey Hammer, Hard Spun will be the better sire - with bloodlines like Danzig, Northern Dancer, Nearctic & Native Dancer on top, & Turkoman, Alydar,Raise A Native, Roberto & Hail to Reason on the bottom how can he not prevail. Throw in his heart & guts and you have the whole package.   Tanzkd

tanzkd 08 Jan 2009 5:14 PM

  HARD SPUN by DANZIG!!

DONNA 08 Jan 2009 5:20 PM

It will DEFINETLY be street sense. He was SPECTACULAR at the racetrack and is by INCREDIBLE sire. Street Cry.

Kimmy Storino 08 Jan 2009 5:34 PM

With Hard Spun, all I can think about is Pine Bluff (better pedigree) and Danzig Connection. And Hard Spun has a fairly moderate female family and his broodmare sire is Turkoman (who I really liked and will be missed now that he is pensioned), but he is not a great name in pedigrees. Almost every high-priced son of Danzig at stud in KY turned into a flop and I am in the minority in thinking Hard Spun will be another.

Elaine 08 Jan 2009 6:19 PM

Hard Spun!!!!

Jennifer 08 Jan 2009 6:22 PM

I feel like Hard Spun was basically equal to Street Sense on the track.  Spun was still technically 2 when he ran in the Derby and barely turned 3 by the Preakness.  Later in the year, after he had time to mature, he beat Street Sense both tries (KY Cup and BC Classic.) With great performances on the track from 7 furlongs to 10, amazing bloodlines, and big wins on sythentics and dirt, why wouldn't Hard Spun turn out to be the better sire? I think Street Sense will be a nice stud too but you can't compare to a brave Danzig like Hard Spun!

Chelz 08 Jan 2009 6:23 PM

Has to be Hard Spun.  I have said before if I was to breed it would be to him. He has soundness, of course by Danzig, great pedigree all the way around and a heart that will not stop.  The Man........

lobieb 08 Jan 2009 6:46 PM

Hard Spun all the way!! impeccable pedigree,but is also a beauty, And Danzig has had some kick butt runners,Danzig also was Boundary's sire.And look at what Boundary sired,his has sons and daughters are hits in Europe,And Big Brown all in family.

ruffian518 08 Jan 2009 7:03 PM

When they can't run they can't read their pedigree,

Reality 08 Jan 2009 7:13 PM

Hard Spun was my horse the whole year, and he remains my horse now. He was such a gutsy little horse who gave his whole heart -- how can he not pass it on? Then, of course, Danzig and his dam's family. How can you cross that? Street Sense was phenomenal, but Hard Spun...! I hope he stays on top. He's a good horse and I think his offspring will show it. I can't wait to see these guys' foals run, though!

Amber 08 Jan 2009 7:35 PM

Street Sense wil be the better one in the breeding shed...all of Danzig sons are much better crossing with European mares,Danzig most successful son is Danehill....i really dont think Danzig is that much of a sire of sires in North America

Deryck 08 Jan 2009 7:51 PM

although they both have incredible pedigrees .Hard Spun was a spunky and durable runner.Always gave his best. Let's hope he passes his will to run to his progeny.

nina 08 Jan 2009 7:51 PM

Hard Spun.  Let's remember he would have been the Derby winner if not for a miraculously clean trip that Street Sense got.  HS beat Curlin in the Derby and Haskell.  I think the Danzig line is stronger.  HS has got that push button trainability trait and personality too.  He'll be a great sire with great genetic traits to

pass on to his little Hard Spuns.

HardSpun'sBigFan 08 Jan 2009 7:54 PM

Hard Spun all the way.

What a great tribute to Danzig and the late Woody Stephens.

Rodney 08 Jan 2009 8:37 PM

Hard Spun, for sure.

Sierra 08 Jan 2009 9:24 PM

Why mention Northern Dancer/Neartic in a pedigree if you've already mentioned Danzig as sire?  Can you get any other sire line? ;-)

Nearly half the sires today have Northern Dancer and Raise a Native somewhere up the line.  After you get a couple generations out, does it really matter?

For me its a push until either prove themselves.  I am a long way from proclaiming either of them anything more than fashionable young sires.  They don't even have babies to look at yet, for heaven sakes!!

Lmaris 08 Jan 2009 9:39 PM

Hard Spun!  He was a great racehorse in among a great crop of racehorses.  Pedigree or not he had the guts and versatility that in any other year would have put him on top.  I think that counts for more than pedigree.

Central Valley Dame 08 Jan 2009 10:15 PM

I think Hard Spun will prove the better sire though Street Sense I think will do well. With Hard Spun being a son of Danzig and his broodmare sire being Turkoman I believe all the right ingredients for sire power are there. Turkoman may not have been a top sire but he was pretty solid and as a broodmare sire he and other Alydar sons appear to be showing great ability for siring good, solid producing daughters which should help Hard Spun in the ranks of broodmare sire down the road and lets face it Danzig himself is an excellent broodmare sire. Again the right ingredients are there and his gutsy performances whether winning or losing will help shape the heart of his foals.

Julie L. 08 Jan 2009 10:15 PM

I'm not clear how the mare quality ratings are read. Is the 3+ CI for Hard Spun's mates, better quality than Street Sense's 2+ rating?

newsline2 09 Jan 2009 9:13 AM

I have to think Street Sense..Street Cry has so many good runners right now and I believe Street Sense will pass along that big heart his has.

Vikki 09 Jan 2009 10:20 AM

If Hard Spun's CI rating indicates the quality of mares serviced by him was higher than those serviced by Street Sense, would it make sense that the value and ability of the Street Sense get would be less based on the quality of the dam?

Perhaps owners of the lesser dams felt to gain more breeding to the higher valued stallion, Street Sense? Breeding up, so the off-spring would be more valuable commercially?

All that is if I understand the rating measure correctly. And I realize it is speculation and genetics do what they will do.

newsline2 09 Jan 2009 10:37 AM

I saw Hard Spun & Street Sense + all five of Pletcher's (including Rags to Riches) work or gallop on Sunday before the Derby, .  HS was by far the most visually impressive (with Larry on his back!).  I never forgot that image.  He will throw runners!  A bargain at $50k.

binky 09 Jan 2009 10:56 AM

I apply an ABCD formula to the whole evaluation.

Ancestors: Hard Spun has the line that indicates Sire Power for many generations.

Bigheartedness: Hard Spun was one of the most gutsy horses I have ever seen.

Confirmation:  The colt was put together well.  He carried more weight than most other thoroughbreds in conditioning and Darley applauds him for running the Triple Crown series with a miniscule vet bill.

Disposition:  The colt had the maturity as a two year old that carried into his 3 year old series.  Larry Jones is an awesome training, but Hard Spun was also and individual standout.

If Hard Spun is not the whole package for a sire, I don't know who is.

Kent D. Hersman 09 Jan 2009 11:09 AM

I like Hard Spun being out of Danzig by a Turkoman mare. He may be the heir to Danzig. He also proved his speed and staying power on the track. Not quite a 1 1/4 horse, but close.

NightOwlaa 09 Jan 2009 11:30 AM

Another reason I prefer Hard Spun, is that Street Sense is actually hurt by the fact that he may be competing with his own sire Street Cry who is still young and will get his fair share of quality mares.

NightOwlaa 09 Jan 2009 11:38 AM

Hard Spun - just wish he had raced longer, great horse

m burry 09 Jan 2009 11:46 AM

I THINK STREET SENSE WILL BE THE BETTER OF THE TWO.  HIS PEDIGREE IS BETTER FOR SIRE POWER AND HE IS INBRED TO NATALMA 5x4.  HARD SPUN LOOKS TO BE A BEAUTIFUL BROODMARE SIRE.  I WILL KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR HIS DAUGHTERS IN 2 YEARS.  WITH TURKOMAN, ROBERTO, AND MY BABU HIS 1ST, 2ND AND 3RD DAM SIRES, HE LOOKS LIKE A LOCK AS A BROODMARE SIRE.

ROBERT 09 Jan 2009 12:28 PM

It's Hard Spun by 24. 181-157 tells me he's the winner. What a way to retire!!

schabelli 09 Jan 2009 2:22 PM

It all depends on what you want.  A dirt track runner or a synthetic track runner?  because you're not going to get both in the same horse.  Its either one or the other so take your pick and lots of luck.

Whatever 09 Jan 2009 4:24 PM

Even before they came out with the stud fees, I felt that if I had a quality mare to breed, Hard Spun offered a better all-around package. His bloodlines are fantastic and durable, he has versatility in distances with staying power, but his heart especially ranks him above Street Sense. While SS was very talented, it seemed (to me)that he lacked heart when challenged.

Chelz (above) said it best!

And I also am excited to see how their progeny perform on the track!

detadavis 10 Jan 2009 1:40 PM

hard spun baby<3 philly horses know how to get it done:)

groomebear 10 Jan 2009 5:54 PM

This has to be a joke, right?? Street Sense owned Hard Spun at the track and will own him in the shed. Street Sense was a head from winning the Triple Crown! Class baby, SS has it!

Frank Jone 11 Jan 2009 9:33 AM

I loved Alydar from the first time I saw him.  Yes, Affirmed was the better on the track, but who was better in the breeding shed?  Personally, I think that Hard Spun is going to carry on the Danzig, Alydar, etc. blood and will do it proud.  That is not to say that I would not breed a mare to Street Sense, he is a really nice horse.  However, what mare would not benefit from being bred to a well built, gutsy, incredibly sound horse that packed his 180 lb. trainer around the track for his workouts?  Personally I think that more horses need to be trained like he was!

Springsmom83 11 Jan 2009 7:59 PM

I think Kent says it best in his post. Hard Spun all the way. I loved him through his entire campaign and he was one tough competitor. I would have loved to see him race as a 4 year old. I think he would have been brilliant.

Karen2 12 Jan 2009 4:19 PM

For all the Dirt tracks Street Sence progeny will prove to be a big hit but the turf and the poly races Hard Spun will be much better.

BobbyP 12 Jan 2009 5:41 PM

If only Hard Spun had a chance to run on turf ata mile. His half brother is War Chant I'd say based on history it's Hard Spun

2 time valley player of the year 12 Jan 2009 6:08 PM

Although I love both Street Sense and Hard Spun, I will have to go with Hard Spun as the better sire.  I have watched both horses race at Saratoga; Street Sense in the Jim Dandy and Travers, and Hard Spun in the King's Bishop.  Both horses were awesome, but to me, Hard Spun possessed more heart and determination than Street Sense.

I think those qualities will carry in the breeding shed.

God bless both horses, and may they both have long and very productive lives!!!

Don V 19 Jan 2009 3:13 PM

Disregarding their breeding, and looking strictly at racing performance, you have to like Hard Spun's "class" at the middle distances.  He had speed that he could carry out to a mile, mile and an eighth...and actually, when things went his way (as they did in the Breeders Cup) he carried it all the way to a great second place finish.  

Street Sense was a horse who ran his best when it counted the most, the Derby.  My hats off to him, he will be a good sire, but I'd put my money on Hard Spun for throwing more stakes winners when it's all said and done.

Phil Rynn 21 Jan 2009 8:09 AM

You never really know with any first year sire but Hard Spun has alot of things going his way to become a very important sire. He had a ton of class was game & could carry his speed. He is very solid & correct from a phyical standpoint. Being by Danzig can be good or bad esp for a US based sire. His family is just ok. The most important factor in Hard Spuns future success I believe comes from his book. He was bred to many class mares that I believe fit him very well.

Cash 21 Jan 2009 12:15 PM

The everready Hard Spun. He keeps on coming.

libby 21 Jan 2009 1:16 PM

Hard Spun and Street Sense were tough horses on the track, each in his own way. I would have to put Circular Quay ahead of them both. You still get an infusion of Danzig on the bottom and that should satisfy most of you. Over a period of time I think he will produce more consistent classic distance runners than the other two...just my opinion!

TonyC 21 Jan 2009 5:21 PM

Hard Spun by a mile. If he passes on his speed he will be a very good sire. Most Kentucky Derby winners have beeen moderate at best as stallions.

buzz4cody 21 Jan 2009 5:51 PM

HARD SPUN BECAUSE TURKOMAN IS A EXELENT BROODMARE SIRE ,POINT GIVEN IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT,AND BY THE WAY; TURKOMAN MARE (TABA) WAS A FREAKY MONSTER THERE IN ARGENTINA

anza 21 Jan 2009 6:26 PM

Karen2, agreed. I am a huge Street Sense fan, but A 4 y/o career for Hard Spun would have been terrific.  I saw Hard Spun start from behind the starting gate at the Kings Bishop. Never saw a horse go out of the gate with such certainty like he did - like a missle down the backstretch. I still remember it. Made you wish he had been campaigned as a miler.

That said, I saw plenty of get-it-done in Street Sense in his works and races. The heat & humidity at Travers was beyond measure. He was barely maturing when retired to a N&S hemisphere book after the demoralizing slop of the BC. Long may they run!

What a class: The 2007 3 year olds. What a 4 y/0 season it would have been!

Susan in Saratoga 29 Jan 2009 3:44 AM

This is great banter and support of 2 very good horses. I agree with Susan in Saratoga. What a 4 y/o old season it would have been.

This sport, it's fans and the media need something  of a good  sustained rivalry among race horses to draw interest.

In the shed, it's Hard Spun to take the lead.  

Deb1Spun 02 Oct 2009 10:59 PM

hard spun, for sure.

linda 07 Nov 2009 3:51 PM

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