I did the True Nicks for Lane's End stallions Bernardini A+ and A.P Indy A++. Too bad we can't ship her to Sea the stars.

My 1st choice is Dynaformer-what a fiesty little one that would be.

2nd choice is Quality Road.

Zen's babies are going to be so adorable no matter who she is bred to and she will be mom like no other.

Pulpit. A++ and a nice sire at that and possibly Meglia De Oro

The colt will be priceless and will never live up to expectations, of course, no matter who it 's by. How about some of the better race horses of our time, such as Smarty Jones or Big Brown? Those two also wanted to win.

Curlin...we want something durable! Both retired sound and top money makers. Or who is the biggest stallion out there? Zenyatta could give birth to a Godzilla and he/she can go out and cantor around the track and win... :)

It is my hope that only a stallion who retired SOUND and who didn't have soundness problems would be considered.  How quickly people forget Big Brown's and Quality Road's lousy feet, etc.  Why oh why do we keep breeding to unsound horses/lines?

Dont breed to curlin hes a unproven sire, breed to Pulpit he is awesome :D

While visiting Lexington horse farms in the days before the Breeders' Cup, each farm had the "perfect match" for Zenyatta.  Among those mentioned --Pulpit, Medaglia D'Oro, Curlin.  While I agree with Mike Smith who stated that no stallion is worthy of The Queen, I think it will be A P Indy.

In one way I do like Giant's Causeway because he gets horses who can run on dirt, on turf and on synthetic.  But in another way I would love to see her get a crack at one of the hot Euro's right now.

I think it will be AP Indy. He's at Lane's End where Zenyatta will be. He's getting up there in age, there might not be another chance with him. The enhanced Truenicks shows two G1 winners out of seven foals for the AP Indy/Machiavellian cross. And Zenyatta's half sister, Balance, produced an outstanding AP Indy colt.

www.equineline.com/.../bh.cfm

Why not AP Indy before he dies or is pensioned?

I just looked at Curlin on the Stallion Register.  He is one chunky monkey.  I don't know if I'd like to bred my mare to him unless she was lacking bone.

IDEALLY A MATCH MADE IN HORSE HEAVEN WOULD BE ZENYATTA MATED TO A. P. INDY...HOWEVER, EMOTIONALLY HOW SWEET WOULD IT BE FOR THE MOSSES TO CONTINUE THE ZENYATTA TEAM LEGACY BY MATING QUEEN Z AND KENTUCKY DERBY WINNER, GIACOMO.  AS JOHN HAD SAID THESE TWO AMAZING HORSES WERE THE TRUE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE Z TEAM LIVES.  HOW SPECIAL FOR THE MOSSES AND THE SHIRREFFS.  I KNOW THIS IS UNREALISTIC BUT VERY SPECIAL!

Bernardini...AP Indy....or the new old kid on the block...EINSTEIN! for new blood stock. Maybe Bold Chieftain, or Sea The Stars.  RHT is too close also for inbreeding...but they'd make a beautiful couple.

I've always been an Einstein fan.  However, I've wondered why they don't have a conformation shot of him on the Stallion Register.  Does he have a conformation flaw?

Giant's Causeway - physically and pedigree-wise. Love the Rahy on his dam's side. I'd also consider Henry the Navigator, Smart Strike and Distorted Humor. I think she needs to be bred to a stallion who is medium-sized with a lot of speed. That is the main objection I'd have to A.P.Indy. The stallion manager at Lanes End said that he crosses best with sprinter-type mares who have a lot of speed. Bred to Zenyatta, he might come up with a bit of a plodder. Sentimentally, how about Holy Bull?

How about Blame? He's been retired sound and young. I think it is going to be a difficult task as she is huge. Live a long life and be fertile, Zen!

 Curlin?  Please.  Unproven and will wind up a disappointment in my opinion.  My problem with Giant's Causeway is they breed him to so many mares your Giant's Causeway baby winds up being a dime a dozen (I don't think his percentage of stakes winners is anything to write home about but I could be wrong on that one).  My pick is Tiznow (and yes, I know they are not shy about breeding him to a lot of mares also).  I hadn't thought of Pulpit but that is interesting as well.  Maybe Tiznow, Pulpit, Tiznow, Pulpit the first four year.

I ran all the nicks for the Lanes End stallions for Zenyatta and some outside stallions that I like as well. If she was my mare, I would send her to Medaglia D'oro first. He is not a huge horse like Zen which I think is important for her first breeding. The horses bred on that cross include Rachel , Warriors Reward & Payton D'oro. Maybe Henrythenavigator. The other stallions I like are all big horses, Dynaformer, Midnight Lute, Rock Hard Ten, although the inbreeding to Kris S in that scenario is rather close, that cross has produced some really good horses. I also suggest a breeding to Hard Spun in the future once he is proven to be the sire I think he will be. I hope they stay away from Curlin, the nick is a C. AP Indy (would rather see Pulpit), Giants Causeway(would rather see Eskenderaya) are more of the same old same old. Breed to something more interesting. I would also like to see her bred to some of the European stallions, Like STS, Galileo, Ravens Pass or maybe Danehill Dancer.

Smokin Baby, EXACTLY ! Look at all the Giants Causeway foals when you pull his progeny on pregigree quarry. It's ridiculous. Reminds me of Alydar. The story goes that he went to the breeding shed 4 or 5 times a day. Mostly because of farm mismanagement and greed.

I not implying that Ashford is missmanaging the careers of their stallions, Im just saying that the money made on stud fee's generated by Giants Causeway alone are in the tens of millions of dollars. I think I read he was bred to 180 mares in 2010. WOW, dude must be tired as hell.

This won't be commercial, although it should.  Breed for out cross potential down the road.  I am against any more Mr. Prospector in the potential offspring, as big as they'll likely be.  

My top pick, Pleasant Tap, is unfortunately no longer with us.

Stevie Wonderboy

Steven Got Even I like even better.

Hat Trick- I know I'm partial to this horse but he keeps the out cross potential, reinforces some of the lines Zenyatta has (as do those above) and since he was a champion miler, should add in some speed.  Looks like he should improve the topline as well.

Maybe Pleasantly Perfect, has only one cross of RAN and that's through Affirmed.

AP Indy is a great horse, as is Tiznow, but I don't like either based on conformation for Zenyatta.

How can you go wrong? Dynaformer, A. P. Indy, Medaglia, etc.,whatever she drops is going to be a looker. Why not Blame? First foal named "Don't Blame Me"

How about Unbridled's Song? He's produced some outstanding fillies, Unriveled Belle, Eight Belles, and Octave to name a few of them.  

I'd pick one of 2:

Mineshaft, A++...get AP Indy, better knees, a little more precocious with doubling up on Raise A Native...

But me, if it was me, would pick Candy Ride...B+...he's correct, blistering fast at a mile and mile and quarter...not too big...he'll need a step-ladder!

Any stallion that has remained sound throughout their racing career and produces sound foals. Some sires produce very fast horses that are prone to breakdowns. I believe this is what happened to Eight Belles. Unbridle's Song also sired Old Fasshioned, who was retired early in his three year old season due to injury. The same is true of Reviewer, who sired Ruffian. He fractured a cannon bone several times during his racing career before he was retired. If they breed her to AP Indy they could call the foal AP Zendy.

I'd consider Afleet Alex (A++) or Candy Ride (B+). Two durable horses that did something with lesser quality mares starting out.

Breed to Curlin!!

Curlin...NO  that cross is a True Nicks F.  Blame is too closely related, way too much inbreeding.  But it does go to show that the Mr. Prospector and Kris S. cross has produced two outstanding animals.  Bred to Dynaformer or A.P. Indy she has a chance to produce an outstanding individual.  I"m sure the Mosses will choose wisely.

It just has to be Eskendereya! He was my derby horse. Just look and drool over his family tree....His dad's dad Storm Cat with Mariah's Storm out of Rahy and her mom out of Roberto! And his mom's dad Seattle Slew and her mom by Alydar and great grandma by Northern Dancer...sheeesh...can't touch this! I mean wow, seriously. True nicks gives them an A+. And besides, Zenny told me she likes them young, handsome and successful and that's Esky to a T:)

Langfhur, Mineshaft, Stephen Got Even, and War Pass are some of my top picks, all at Lane's End. If she bred with Stevie: Even Zen. War Pass: Pazzen Impozzible

Langfhur: hmm, I don't know.. Huratta?

STORM CAT!!!...HE$ RESTED NOW...GIVE HIM ONE MOE $HOT...HE$ EARNED IT...LONG LIVE "THE CAT"!!!...ty....

As much as I'd love to see it be Curlin, it won't be. The Mr. P inbreeding is bleh in my opinion, and I rather suspect her owners would still be too sore about 2008.

I expect either Indy or one of his sons, possibly Mineshaft or Stephen Got Even. I'd like to see her bred to the old man himself, given that he's not going to live forever and an Indy/Zen son could become the heir apparent...

I have done some research and have found 3 good sires to breed the queen to.. Bernadini was tops followed by Flatter then A.P. Indy..All 3 of these gave an A++ foal with the Hypothetical breeding on the stallion register here on Bloodhorse..

You've got to be thinking of a well put together, compact sprinter who gets early runners to balance out Zenyatta's size and late development.  I'm not as conversant with US pedigrees as I once was, does anyone have any suggestions?

I say AP Indy or maybe Curlin.

A.P. Indy, top gun on the same farm, is an A++ match on True Nicks and getting up there in age (over 20), so better now than never!

At some point Afleet Alex, still a young sire, might be considered as he's also an A++ match.  He was an awesome competitor and on the smallish side, so a nice counterpoint in size to Zen.

Great sires that stand abroad, like Galileo, should also be considered.  

Unbridled's Song????  Doesn't he have a genetic deficiency?  Bad choice...and it certainly didn't help Eight Bells or Winslow Homer.

"The stallion has developed an industry reputation for producing speed, precocity, and fragility."  Too many of his progeny break down.

Susan from VA...check out Adena Springs Stallions.  Perfect conformation pix of Einstein....looking just as handsome and strong-boned as ever.  I really like him, and it would represent more of an outcross if matched with Zen.  But if she's going for nothing less than the best...and she's at Lane's End, I'd bet heavily on AP Indy...or one of his sons.

i pick dynaformer... imagine the

size of that foal... a.p.indy ia

always a great choice... but with

dynaformer you would get size to

match and enduring and the barbaro

genes...

Put some speed in her.  She can clearly run all day.  So find a cross that resembles the Bold Ruler x Princequillo mare....

Assuming she will be bred to one of the current stallions at Lane's End, I offer this opinion.

As much as I love Curlin, old AP Indy, and Smart Strike, my vote goes to Quality Road. A notoriously fast horse, and can bring it right from the gate. What better match for her slow start style, but she can unleash incredible stretch runs and at longer distances. Perfect combination. Besides, he’s the only one that can look her in the eye….he’s another 17 hand tall monster as is Zenyatta. Just more heavily muscled. Maybe they’ll produce another monster that can turn it on whenever they want. And 17+ hands!

Breed "like to like". The Pamplemousse is the one.His problem developed because the big horses need more time for the legs to strengthen. John Sherriffs brought Zenyatta along perfectly. They won't need to dig a hole for him to breed her because he is 17 hands as well. Their strengths both were the length of their strides and their desire to win. Nowdays a horse doesn't need to be proven to breed. Do a sperm count. He will have young vigorous sperm, not old tired out, too diluted sperm. Make Zenyatta as sensational as a broodmare as she was a racehorse. She deserves it.

Medaglia d' Oro is my first pick and I agree with Patti....Giacomo!!!

 Rachel, CANDY RIDE.  I was thinking he'd be good also.  He's certainly earned the right to be considered with his produce so far.

 I wanted to acknowledge being wrong about something in an earlier post.  I mentioned that I didn't think Giant's Causeway's percentage of stakes winners was anything to write home about.  I checked last night and as of January 2010 his lifetime percentage of stakes winners to foals was a VERY respectable 7%.  I know a lot of people like this horse.  I apologize if my inaccurate comment bothered anyone.

go back througth the decades and you will find when top race mares are mated to the  very elete sires they almost never produce a top foal... Iprefer a gutsy sire ... I chose Tiznow...  

zenyatta should be breed to #1 sea the stars,and named sea of stars,or #2 ap indy and named indyatta

When I met Jerry and Ann Moss Fri. after the Fri. races, I wanted to suggest Sea the Stars, instead I blathered as a result of the shock of actually meeting them.  But for fun, Zen might want to visit Monsun (Germany) as Ouija Board did.  The foal's name could be Mondatta - Mon from Monsun and datta from Zendatta- completes the Police record Zenyatta Mondatta!

I vote for her to visit AP Indy or Bluegrass Cat

A.P. Indy - He's getting up there in age his fertility may decline over the next couple of years and then it would be too late.  I agree with Karen!  They better dig a hole for Zen to stand in; A.P. is only 16 hands!!

Zenyatta's first foal will be by A.P. Indy.  Balance and her $4.2 million dollar baby assured that.  Giants Causeway will probably be her 2nd stallion.  Bernardini will probably be in the first 3 or 4 foals.  Tapit might even get consideration as he is siring nice foals that turn into good racehorses.  Tiznow has shown he likes the Mr. Prospector line and might be considered for the 4th foal.

In my opinion, the following sires should not get within 1000 yard of Zenyatta, simply because they either are not a good fit or their breeding does not lend them to be a good sire.  Starting with Curlin....he will be a huge disappointment as sons of Smart Strike have not been good sires.  Pulpit has soundness issues and probably won't be considered until A.P. Indy is either gone or retired, and if Blame wins HOTY, the owners won't wan to use a Claiborne stallion.  Sea The Stars....grass horse and is yet to be proven.  Dynaformer is too large.  Unbridleds Song babies are unsound as a general rule and most of them can't get a route of ground.  Quality Road won't pan out and he is not a good fit physically.  Blame might be interesting, if the owners can get past the 3x3 inbreeding to Kris S.  Giacomo, Holly Bull and Looking at Lucky will never get close to Zenyatta.  I can see Big Brown being considered, but until he shows he is a sire, he has his sire Boundary going against him.  

Patti.  How about Giacomo's 1/2 brother Tiago?  SmartStrike seems to be hitting hard these days.  

I like Afleet Alex. Not too big and certainly had the desire to win.

I'm a big fan of A.P. Indy...As much as I wish Anabaa was still with us, I think he would have been an interesting pick =(

But what about Rock of Gibraltar? Has anyone checked him out...

My choices would be Funny Cide, Mine that Bird or Imawildandcrazyguy.

Take that to the bank.

How did I leave out Purim?

An out cross sometimes runs better but does not produce as well in the shed.  I like bringing back some of the lines in Z's pedigree while keeping out any more Prospector or Northern Dancer, if possible.  Breed for the next generation down the road.  You could still get a great runner.

You don't want to breed this mare to something as large as she is or too small.  It's not easy to keep a big horse sound. You also don't want to end up with a big body on a small frame.

The breed needs more stamina.  It's part of the problem with American TB's now that 1-1/4 is practically considered a route.

I pray she meets Medaglia d'Oro at some point.  Zero inbreeding on paper, fantastic, and it might add a little precocity.  Breeding to a big stallion like Dynaformer means the poor foal may be five before it's mature enough to put in a recorded work.

How about horses like Rock Hard Ten, or Bellamy Road. Or maybe, Afleet Alex.

if your breeding for auction, the AP indy s the obvious lanes end stallion. hes older and thus not many years left for him as a stallion. that being said, API foals can run all day as can Z so thinking they could go after some speed. as for size, i wouldnt think you'de wanna take her to a huge stallion as the foal could present problems so that eliminates rock hard ten. its going to be either AP indy or..heres the sleeper..mineshaft

For her very first foal, there would be no sense breeding Zen to another large horse...it could be most difficult for her to carry and deliver. (And Rock Hard Ten is the largest standing at Lane's End..but he's sort of her uncle).  I'd stick with AP Indy and Bernardini...both proven sires, who do not represent as much inbreeding.

Candy Ride, True nicks most popular stallion in 2010 has a B+.

AP Indy - A++

Quality Road - C

Smart Strike - C

All at Lanes End so she wouldn't have to leave the farm. Curlin isn't proven yet but his sire Smart Strike is. The possibilities are endless for Z but I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for making the decision. Not everyone's gonna be pleased, no matter who they choose.

What about Distorted humor??very sound.....

Question A P Indy soundness.....

My first choice would be Afleet Alex. Einstein is a neat thought but probably not as marketable. Quality Road would be interesting, but think they will go with A P Indy. Remember the foal may not be the best at the track expectations too high. But as a second generation breeder could get phenomnal babies.

Zenyatta's hairdresser told me that Zen has a secret crush on Tiznow.  He won the Classic twice, so he is a man she can respect, and he sires well-favored foals, which is important if they have a daughter.  Yes, he is a big boy, but would Zenny want some wimpy stud?

To Robert, yes it is an important factor to consider, Z & Blame, thanks for the 3 X 3 factor information . . . I hadn't done my homework. With all due respect, I think it sounds, may not be a fact, but it sounded to me when you stated the owners would not want to breed Z to a Claiborne horse if Blame wins HOTY sounds like sour grapes. I think the Mosses are bigger than that. Claiborne Farms, once the home of my favorite horse, the greatest horse to have ever lived--Secretariet, has Pulpit,had beautiful horses such as Ruffian, Personal Ensign who was undefeated in 13 races after he broke his leg as a 2-year old, and the great Nashua . . . I think Z and Pulpit may make a nice couple as well. Happy holidays everyone!

I want to clear up a misconception (no pun intended) on this blog about large stallions producing large foals, that would be difficult to carry and deliver.  Foal size is limited by the mare's uterus.  Experiments were done in the previous century in which pony mares were bred to draft studs.  The foals were appropriately-sized for their dams.  Only after birth did genetics take over and the foals grew to their genetically-programmed size.  Of course, if you don't want to have to wait to allow Zenyatta's foal grow to its full size (as done with Zenyatta), you might want to opt for a smaller stud.  By the way, does anyone know the size of Zenyatta's dam?  Street Cry isn't terribly large, so where does Zenyatta's size come from?

How about Birdstone?  He's proven that he can produce quality runners and the cross is rated A+ on TrueNicks.  Almost no inbreeding.  Plus, he's on the small side.  Definitely don't want to breed a giant like Z to another large horse.

Dray: You would breed Zenyatta to geldings??????  Have another drink.  Maybe your next suggestion will be a real stallion.  

I think Zen is specifically at Lane's End because she will choose one of their stallions.  Go AP!

How about More Than Ready? Horse is hot as a pistol in the Antipodes and I can't help but think Big Z is going to produce turf runners. Her talent may have permitted her to excel on dirt, but her style and stride is all turf. (The immediate family is pretty turfy, too.)

Zenyatta is a huge, heavily-built mare; late-maturing, as well. She is likely to be disappointing as a broodmare if she is not carefully mated to moderate size and bulk in the offspring. You mate her with a behemoth and you are starting to get into Clydesdale country.

More Than Ready, what a great choice for a future Melbourne Cup winner. I always thought Zen would be great on turf. She has the power to last the longer distances they run on the turf. Maybe she could pass that on to future progeny.

DRAYNAY $TRIKES AGAIN???...COME ON MAN...MOE NADS...ty...

Obviously by my nic, I would like to see her with a Slew decendant, but that being said, A.P. Indy is an A++ breeding, he is available and handy. Pulpit could be an interesting match as well.

I am a bit disturbed by all the people wanting her to go to a big stallion.  We do want her and the foal to LIVE through the foaling, do we not?  Or perhaps, they are just thinking of the size of the foal and not what both foal and mare have to go through for him/her to get here.

slewDee-va, it's not the size of the foal at birth that is the problem; it's the size the foal will grow to when he/she matures. Zenyatta is already at the top end of the range where height/weight/stride can combine efficiently for a running horse. But she has exceptional talent. It is highly unlikely any of her foals will equal her in talent, and if they are her size, they will likely be lumbering sorts, suitable for 3-mile steeplechases. Some regression toward the mean is desirable, if the babies are to be successful under US flat racing conditions.

slewDee-va -

Please read my post above about foal size.

answer to NotRealQuiet-Street Cry is 16.1 hands-I would like to know how many hands Vertigneaux is-I cannot find the answer-please comment if you find it.  Also, in reply to the foals size-Don Robinson who owns Winter Quarter Farm where Z was foaled claims that he was very concerned the night Z was born because her dam always had a tendency to have very large foals and that she had complications in birth because of this.  Maybe she is an unusual case.

For the best possible looking horse of all time

ROCK HARD ZEN

gotta gettcha sum more Kris S baby

Big Brown, Pamplemousse, Street Sense - size, acceleration, will to win and temperament...

iluvz, it doesn't give a height to Vertigineux, but the Zenyatta commemorative issue does say she's big boned & rangey & that Zenyatta takes after her more than Street Cry.

As far as breeding, looking for soundness, speed and crosses, my choices (as if they matter LOL!) are:

1. Heatseeker - raced through 5, gives crosses to Roberto, Mr. P. & Halo

2. Lewis Michael - raced through 5, gives crosses to Halo, Roberto, & Hoist the Flag

Both of those two also are descended from Rahy. Zenyatta was never tried on grass, but I have to think with her pedigree and ability on synthetics, she would have been just as awesome.

3. Hard Spun - Like the first two is a speed horse that can carry it, crosses are Raise a Native & Roberto.

Whoever they pick for her, the chances of her reproducing herself are slim to none. Most of the other great mares didn't. Personal Ensign produced champions, but they still were nowhere close to her level. So I'm just planning on enjoying whoever it is she produces with no expectations. Then I can be pleasantly surprised.

Like the people that think Afleet Alex would be a great match! Zenyatta had stamina and heart with an instinct to get across that line, it didn't matter what other horse was on the track. If you watch Alex's races he didn't care if there were 50 other horses every race was his race alone, he could focus.  Perfect match

Name for the foal: ZenextAfleet.

Stevie Wonder Boy.  

OK, if a la Draynay, she can be bred to geldings, what about being bred to deceased sires?

Northern Dancer.  Would help with the sizing issue.

Hyperion.  Ibid.

(fantasy, fantasy)

(p.s.  Bellwether: I still can't translate most of your comments but I actually got "moe nads" -- I think.)

My vote(s) goto a few nice stallions....

Afleet Alex crosses well with her...Tapit too (both at Gainseway)

As for Lane's End stallions...I would choose Mineshaft or After Market but can understand that they might want to squeeze on last drop (pardon the pun) out of AP Indy before too long. WIsh Kingmambo would have lasted for her....How abotu Pleasantly Perfect?

Also, EINSTEIN is awesome...or how about Slew City Slew???

Medaglias D'Oro is good too!

My picks are Dynaformer, AP Indy, and Medaglia D'Oro. If I could narrow them down, it would be Medaglia D'Oro.

Congrats!

Rock Hard Ten

Offlee Wild

Hard Spun

Distorted Humor

Not in that order but I'd like to see those foals eventually.  Along with Galileo and Sea The Stars if he proves decent.

I would breed her to Smart Strike. I like his structure, and don't care about the pedigree with hers.

I breed dogs, and many times what looks good, does good, no matter the genes. This is true of racing dogs a high percentage of the time.