can i get a write in vote for Best Pal?

Curlin.

Arts and Letters and Round Table belong here, too. Native Dancer tops the list. Except for a bad ride, he would have won.

I'm a big Curlin fan, but I have to go with Alydar on this one.  Three TC races and three 2nd place finishes pretty much says it all.

Where is Hasty Road?

If you consider impact on the breed it can only be NATIVE DANCER.

I'm pretty sure Damascus was an innocent oversight.

One of the best horses in thoroughbred history!!!

One of the best thoroughbreds in horseracing history!!!

Forty Niner (a neck short to Winning Colors)

What about Forego?

Why is Man O' War's name missing from the list?

Alydar

Oops! My mistake, Man O'War didn't run in the Derby.

I will always be an Afleet Alex fan and no doubt should of won the Triple Crown! I also have loved Alydar so that's my 2 top choices.

Easy Goer should be number one. Most people forget the racing community was so excited by him ,they thought of him at first as the next Secretariat.He later beat older horses with ease.

Holy Bull should also be ranked much higher...a star in his own time.

One perennial forgotten superstar deserves to be included in the list. Unfortunately, he was foaled the same year as his career nemesis, mega-star Spectacular Bid. His name was Flying Paster, the life-long runner-up to the "Bid". Not to mention General Assembly!

Great and fun poll!  I am too young to have seen Native Dancer run, but I voted him #1 anyway.  I did see Alydar run, and voted him #2.  

how giaccamo ever one is still beyond me afleet far and away best of that group and beyond

Native Dancer stands alone.

Where is Praire Bayou??.....won the Lanes End....won the Bluegrass.....won the Preakness....who knows how good he would've been had he not broke down in the Belmont Stakes.....

Anyone ranking Curlin above Nashua and Bold Ruler just doesn't know their racing history.

My list would include (in no particular order): Forego, Damascus, Risen Star, Display, and Bimelech.

i still say 2 time BC winner Tiznow

Some of the horses on here were amazing, but in my opinion, nobody should start a list without it being

Native Dancer 1st

Easy Goer 2nd

and i love Forty Niner it time to bring him back home to USA it time to bring all those horses back to USA before it to late

Native Dancer

Easy Goer

Nashua

Alydar

Point Given

Holy Bull

Bold Ruler

Curlin

Afleet Alex

Sham

Thats my list, let the arguing begin

bold ruler then holy bull the rest somewhere in the field........

The rare bad ride by Gary Stevens kept Point Given from being the next superhorse.  Won the Preakness and Belmont with ease.  Too close to the pace in The DErby set it up for the plodder Monarchos

Curlin definitely!!! Had it not been for his inexperience, who knows. He showed us all later what he's worth. Alydar is a close second because if not for affirmed he would have been a TC winner!

Can't believe 'Alex is currently ranking EIGHTH! I don't think anyone loves Curlin as much as me (save for maybe Jess Jackson & Company!), but even I can't place him ahead of Alex. Perhaps people missed his career both before and after the Derby? ;)

It's interesting though, when you think of some of these astounding horses, like AA, like Native Dancer, like Alydar, who were so close, and so near perfect otherwise (Real Quiet's nose loss STILL makes me cringe and want a do-over!).

There's a reason there are only 11 Triple Crown winners...it's HARD! And it should be...otherwise, it's just another series of races with no significant attachment to them.

Thanks for the poll though, always fun to see where everyone's loyalties lie! :)

****FOREGO****

by far the best horse to ever run who was not a K.D. winner. He didn't have to be. 4x H.O.T.Y. how would anyone else compete with that? Forego is still in a class by himself

Native Dancer BY FAR!! He was dead long before my time but let's get serious here.  As a racehorse and by his bloodlines none of the rest come close. It's nice to hear little anecdotes about these other horses but there is NO competition.

What about Unbridled's Song, a freak of a horse who could have been the best of all time... if handled right.

I think his Derby run was the at least one of the greatest losing runs of all time. He ran the race with egg bar shoes and started from post 20. Take a look www.youtube.com/watch

Native Dancer won 21 races out of 22 -Derby only loss having been blocked twice in the race and almost winning. Any other answer shows what a lack of racing history other comments represent.

What, no Skip Away?

Since he's not listed, the top three, Alydar, Point Given, Afleet Alex.

HANSEL 1991

curlin better than point given or afleet alex?  now that is comical......

Ok. The public vote has it right with Native Dancer top. Holy Bull is massively under-rated.

Bold Ruler and Nashua are a lot better than they are being given credit for. Alydar and Easy Goer were very good, but ran into an opponent that was all wrong for them tactically (Affirmed and Easy Goer), a bit like a fighter coming up on a "southpaw."

Where would you rank Eight Belles?

How on earth can you pick anyone but Native Dancer ?

Had Baffert prepped Point Given properly he would have won the triple crown. Who else has gone on to win four million dollar races after the triple crown but him? He was a machine the second big red to Secretatiet.

Did I see that someone asked why Man O' War's name was not in the list?  He did not run in the Derby.

The 1973 Derby had two great horses that didn't win, Sham and Forego.  Native Dancer should top the list.  It is a shame that Point Given and Afleet Alex both lost the Derby because of suicidal paces by horses that didn't deserve to be in the field.  Those were a couple of great horses.

Man...Afleet Alex. All I can remember was his...insane win. He FELL to his KNEES and still won amazingly. What a horse! The others, they all deserve their places RIGHT up with him, but I still can't forget Alex. Curlin doesn't deserve to be up there too close. He was an awesome, awesome horse, but.

Damascus should definitely be on this list.  And Risen Star.

Duh!  Risen Star..wins the Preakness handily and the Belmont by 25..Bad ride lost him the Derby. Monster animal

Alydar and Native Dancer are the 2 standouts. Easy Goer was over hyped - Sunday Silence really was the better horse. Too early to judge

Afleet Alex or Curlin.

I can not believe Bold Ruler and Nashua are ranking so low,

I guess time does dim the memory of greatness.

Might be best to evaluate the horses these "losers" ran against!And the fact that some really nice horses ran a "clunker" in the Derby (Point Given?). Sorry, but I've thought from the beginning that Curlin was and is over rated. Do not believe he could have been other that ordinary against many on this list. And don't believe he deserved to be HOTY last year.

Native Dancer has to be number one but Point Given is the best modern horse to not have won the triple crown.

Ironically, my wagers on Afleet Alex, Curlin and Point Given in the Derby failed to payoff but their subsequent successes were not only a joy to watch but quite lucrative.

Did every one forget about Risen Star who went on to win the Preakness and Belmont over Winning Colors and Forty Niner. Or how about Little Current who was caught in traffic with 24 runners in the 100th Derby but went on to winn the next two legs impressively.

Sham last on this list?  Really?  Still the Santa Anita Derby record holder and the 2nd fastest Derby ever?

Damascus should be very close behind Native Dancer, and Forego and Round Table should be on the list.  

Nashua is being underrated, too, if not for another all-time great (Swaps) he wins the Triple Crown.

My list would be:

Native Dancer

Damascus

Forego

Nashua

Bold Ruler

Round Table

Sham

Alydar

Easy Goer

Point Given

Risen Star

Afleet Alex and Curlin don't belong anywhere near this list.

I love Risen Star, but I don't think Forty Niner ran in the Preakness or Belmont.

Gallant Man and Discovery also deserve mention.

Afleet alex definitely.

The list only includes 10 that's what makes these things so hard but people should not forget Honest Pleasure,Summer Squall and Skip Away.

And as for the person who said Easy Goer was over hyped,gimme a break! You do not win the Whitney,Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup as a 3 year old! based on hype.

Why in God's name is Curlin ranked above the likes of Easy Goer, Bold Ruler, Nashua, Sham or Holy Bull?  Did you people ever seen any of these horses actually run?  Try to flex your memories a little before you vote on this.  And PJ, totally with you on Curlin and Afleet Alex not belonging on this list.

I am embarrassed by some of the purely foolish suggestions by others for additions to this list.  No, the list isn't perfect, but any fool can see that Afleet Alex doesn't measure up to the others in any way, shape, or form.

No wonder people keep wasting money on the 200-to-1 shots.

Forty Niner doesn't even come close to warranting inclusion.

Elain,

    Man o War never ran in the Derby, his owner thought it was too much too early to ask a 3yr to go a 1 1/4 that early into the season, so he opted against the Derby.

Risen Star would have won the TC if he hadn't been boxed in.  He would have followed in his daddy's footsteps

I cannot believe that Sham is not near the top of everyone's list.  If Secretariat had not been the same age as him, Sham would have been a sensation.  With a time under two minutes, he was the fastest horse not to win the Kentucky Derby.  I placed him second behind Native Dancer.

Afleet Alex, no doubt about it...

Please...Forego not even on this list? Are you kidding me? Regularly carried weight today's trainers would be claiming was criminal.....and did nothing but win. Absurd to omit, and, argueably, belongs at or near the top spot.

If Sham hadnt been pushed in the Belmont and allowed to just race a comfortable race, he would have hit the board 2nd.  May have cut in a bit of the links of Secretariat.  Only maybe 1 or 2 of them tho. Then again.  Secretariat may have been 50 links in front with all the left over energy saved from not going head to head in the beginning.  A really neat thing to ponder.  

I agree with some, Point Given has to be the best!  Damascus should be on the list, not Sham and I was a Sham fan.  Arts and Letters was a fantastic horse too.  

Point Given hands down. I love Gary Stevens, but his ride on him that day was not good and I think it cost him the race.

All these guys ahould have won!

How in the heck could folks keep Sham ranked #10!!

How can Sham be at the bottom of the list when he ran the second fastest Derby and would have been a Triple Crown winner except he had the very bad luck to run the same year as Secretariat?

In my opinion Native Dancer was one of the greatest race horses EVER.  I have read the books about him and countless Blood-Horse articles going all the way back to his racing days and he was AMAZING! To me Alydar was the next best on the list but not even close to the great Dancer! Just because we may have actually seen some on the list run - that does not make them greater.

The first comment says it "Best" ... Best Pal !

hear is a curveball the horse that should be on this list is risen star, should have won the triple crown!! cant believe he was'nt listed and these are supposed proffesionals?    

no question about many of the horses listed already, but i believe a very deserving nominee is LITTLE CURRENT, after being bottled up with no where to run in the derby, (finished 4th), he made a shambles out of the preakness, and belmont.

Afleet Alex. This horse was a monster. Did you see his Belmont and Preakness? The fact that he did not win the Derby was a freak. He should have won the Triple Crown, easily.

That,s racing luck,and I say that in honour of so many great horses that have thrilled us over the years who have

never won a triple crown race or never won the triple crown

Native Dancer hands down! Read the Thoroughbred Legends book on him and you will learn about an incredible horse who although badly mismanaged still completed an almost perfect racing career! How many races horses only suffer one defeat their entire career!?

I can't believe people is voting for Curlin.  Street Sense won the Derby fair and square. Don't forget Curlin lost to Rag to riches in the Belmont and most of this on the list have won 2 TC race.

Native Dancer easily. Nashua is being terribly overlooked.

How about an acknowledgement to Risen Star, who had a terrible post in the Derby (1) and then went on to win the Preakness and Belmont.  Unfortunately, due to injury, we never got to know how great of a horse he could have been!

Can not believe you left Damascus of this list.

this is a good topic with a lot of suggestions, so lets differenciate them in different eras say 1950 to 1975 and next 1975 to 2000 then 2000 to current

Can't believe Curlin is ranked so high I would go with Native Dancer, Alydar, and Point Given.  Point Given should have been a Triple Crown winner.  Had ManO'War run in The Derby he would have won, yet he embarrassed Sir Barton the Triple Crown winner. He was the first and original Big Red and the greatest of all time!!!!!

Sham, by far, tops the list.  Finishing so strongly behind Secretariat gives him much more respect in my book.

There is only one "CIGAR".  

Native Dancer lost the 1953 derby bcause he had trouble at the start and during the race. He lost by a diminishing 1/2 length. If he wins that race he would have been 22 for 22 in his career. You wouldn't be talking about Cigar or Peppers Prides winning streak. Native Dancer is the greatest race horse of all time.

Does anybody on this board realize that Sham still has the second fastest derby time ever? Also, if the purses for Curlin's big wins weren't bloated, he wouldn't have the earnings record (meaning, if the same races had the same purse 15 years ago, then Cigar and Skip Away would still be in front) and wouldn't be remembered as some sort of a superstar... A wholly overrated horse

Seems like Native Dancer should be the obvious choice. Then Alydar, because if Affirmed didn't exist he'd have walked home with the Triple Crown. Curlin ranks far down in my book. As much respect as I had for some of the three year olds that year, I've never been a Curlin fan, and compared with years past, horses in recent years haven't been nearly as great.

Curlin is arguably the greatest North American Thoroughbred of all time. How could he not be top 3? But in a list of top ten, I would also have to throw in the immensely talented Unbridleds Song. Unlimited ability but injury and poor handling.

This was an interesting list that was available to to choose from. I am not an expert in any way. From the list that was given I rated them by how they impressed me by their career on the race track and if they were complete how they influenced the breed later. the newer horses were difficult to judge sense they have had a limited or no influence to the breed. That is why I placed the younger ones last. I am not sure that I would even place the younger horses in this list if it were up to me. As I went back and looked over the list on non winners of the Derby, I could have place many other non winners that were more impressive and ran against some assume competitors. Not only that you see their names in many of the pedigrees of many of the "great" runners of the recent era. Some of these included the following: Broad Brush (one tough horse!), Chiefs Crown, Our Native, Believe It, Honest Pleasure, Jim French, Bold Reason, Arts and Letters, Hill Rise, Never Bend, Candy Spots, Ridan, Hill Prince, Coaltown, Bimelech, Discovery, Round Table, Himyar. This is just ones that stood out the most. I would have place some the above names on the list before I went to the younger boys. Oh.... and one other name on the list caught my attention, in 1920 he placed 2nd to Paul Jones. You see him in a few pedigrees now and then and even though he wasn't a "great" race horse, he was a good race horse. In his own way he is a horse that will never be forgotten in the history of horse racing in North America. Upset. Remember him?

For me it is Sham! If he had been born any other year than the same as Secretariat. He would have won the triple crown. He came in second to Secretariat all three races.

The current standings have Curlin in 3rd, and Sham in 10th? Sham certainly isn't getting the respect he deserves. I put him 5th on my list, and Curlin last. He was a very good horse, but he wasn't the "freak" some people seem have labeled him.  

to add to my previous statement. I picked horses that ran in the Derby itself because that was what was on the list that was presented for the survey. I didn't bother with horses that did not run in the Derby.

I think that there's some confusion about this poll question.

It's not about who was the best horse to run in and lose the Derby and then win the Preakness and Belmont (as in Point Given and Afleet Alex).  It's about the best horse from an over-all career perspective to run in and lose the Derby.  It's perplexing to me, for that reason, that Forego isn't among the choices.

I haven't sorted the choices we do have out yet, but Native Dancer is easily at the top for me.  I would lean toward Easy Goer for second, but it troubles me that, other than the Swale in Florida, he wasn't able to win outside of New York.

The bottom line is that the inclusion of the likes of Afleet Alex and Curlin at the expense of Forego leads me to question the credibility of the poll to begin with.  It appears that they forgot Forego.

How can you forget Forego!!

Easy Goer and Holy Bull are the best by far.

Sham Sham Sham! What a great horse. The speed and heart he showed in the Triple Crown are tremendous. Sham's Derby was a feat in itself, then he kept coming back to try again, and faded only due to strength, not to heart.

EASY GOER by far without any doubt. Easy Goer still to this very day has run the Fastest Mile ever run by ANY 3YO in History,not 1 3yo ever ran a Faster 8F, he was just 1/5 of a Second off Dr.Fagers World record Mile,and Easy Goer Galloped out 9F in 1:45 and change..Easy Goer still to this very day has run the 2nd Fastest Test of a Champion Belmont Stakes in history behind only Secretariat!! And Easy Goer is the Only Horse in History to Reel off the Whitney-G1, Travers-G1, Woodward-G1 & Jockey Club Gold Cup-G1, Truely a Legendary Campaign and he did all this as a 3YO!!! EASY GOER

Native Dancer is #1. I do agree with many other posts regarding Sham. If not for the great Secretariat, we would all remember Sham. Sham deserves better.

Look, people, i know Curlin is not the greatest horse of all time, but some of you talk about not giving a horse his due, well thats what your doing to him. Yes when he raced purses were inflated, but you've got to look at the kind of horse it takes to go from a maiden to a classic winner to winning the breeders cup in only what was it 8 or 9 months. Tell me another horse in the history of racing has done that. Many people believe Bernardini could've been great, including me, but even he did not do what Curlin did. Curlin in his 3rd start against one of the best 3yr old crops of recent memory in the Derby, after a very bad trip, tied the record in the Preakness in his forth start, beating SS and HS, and if it handn't have been for rags, he would've beaten Tiago by eight lengths in the Belmont. I also know many of you say well Curlin won the Classic in soup, so that doesn't count. Well thats hypocritical don't you think, since everyone wants the greats to be able to run on anything. Well Curlin could run on any thing dirt, from anything in the states to Dubai. He could run on pavement or slop, he could run near the lead or far back and still win. This is a great horse. Yes i know he was a step slower as a four year old, but, he kinda had a reason, the Dubai bounce, along with travling all the way to California, and trying synthetics and turf all in the first year. You people say he didn't face very good competition. Well what about Einstein winner of the Clark, third in the Donn and just won his first grade one on sythetics. What about well armed. The horse just won the Dubai World Cup by 14 lengths. I don't care if that track was pavement, and i don't care if he wasn't facing the best field ever assembled, no average horse wins that kind of a race by that much. While Curlin isn't the very best not to win the Derby, he deserves his place in history and is worth every bit of hype he recieved.

affect on breeding? BOLD RULER, NATIVE DANCER

native dancer i came to that conclusion just by reading the comments wow 21 for 22 now thats a good record..

Sham did not finish second in the Belmont!  He was destroyed by the early deul with Secretariat and finished last (4th).  My list:

1. Native Dancer

2. Alydar (the only horse to finish second in all three races)

3. Easy Goer

4. Bold Ruler

5. Nashua

You have to thick of some of the other greats: Round Table, Gallant Man, Forego,... But I don't think that the more modern horses should be here - the others, even up to Easy Goer, ran more often and won more often - Easy Goer ran nine races as a two year old & three races as a 3 yr old before the Derby, including the Wood Memorial when it was two weeks before the Derby, not five weeks out.  The horses so far this decade have been nowhere near as tough or durable as the horses of 20+ years ago.  Easy Goer never finished of the board, in fact was only third once to Criminal Type & Housebuster in the Met Mile (not his best distance) as a 4 yr old.

Can we just set the record straight about Sham please?

He did not run the 2nd fastest Derby ever ever.  That honor belongs to Monarchos.

Sure, he finished 2nd in the Derby and Preakness, but not the Belmont.  It is hardly a foregone conclusion he would have won the '73TC.

The second best horse in the 73 Derby was Forego.

Based on overall body of work, I vote him for at #1.

Anyone who puts any horse other than Native Dancer either knows nothing about racing or has forgotten everything they knew.

Alydar second, because well, he's the only horse to place in all 3 races against a tough field.

The inclusion of Point Given and Afleet Alex is, IMHO, pandering to the young fans who don't know of any horses who raced 10 or more years ago.

Forego belongs on the list before either of these two.

My list:

Native Dancer

Alydar

Sham

Nashua

Bold Ruler

Curlin

Holy Bull

Easy Goer

Afleet Alex

Point Given

I also wonder how the pre-1990's horses would have done if coddled like the snowflakes of today who can't seem to manage two races within 4 weeks (other than the triple crown) and rarely even manage 10 starts a year.  

Sham's only flaw was to run into the buzz-saw of Secretariat who broke his heart.

Chip, as much as I love Sham, he did NOT finish 2nd in all 3 races.  He came in last in the Belmont (of 5 runners).  Only Alydar has ever come in 2nd in all 3...

Hawkeye & LDP:

Please note my oops post under TH7Horses. For a brief moment I had forgotten that Man O'War was not allowed to run in the Derby even though he would have won. As for my list:

Native Dancer

Bold Ruler

Nashua

Risen Star

Sham

I believe Curlin is extremley overrated and really has no business on the list.

Hey for some reason my screen name got mixed up with some one else's response. Alex is definatly on the top of my list. But what about Little Current. He easily won the other two legs but got stuck in a field of 24 for the Derby and lost all chance in the traffic. Risen Star is also up on my list.

The poll did not state "greatest horses off all time". A list was provided from which to chose from. Also, to hold against Curlin his loss to Rags in the Belmont totally dismisses the type of filly she was and is without merit. Lets not forget she was rested and pointed to the Belmont while Curlin went into the Belmont after a grueling Triple Crown campaign against 2 Very good horses in their in their own right. A good argument can be made to place Curlin in the top three.

All the people who are diminishing curlin on this list will be eating their words soon enough when they find out how great a sire Curlin will become and how great his offspring will be. I believe people will be talking about Curlins babies years down the road and how great they are and were.

talk about east coast bias.  Point Given was most assuredly the best not to win. He destroyed his comp. My how people forget. Just ask Gary Stevens. As for easy goer, everyone still says he was the best, but they forget that Sunday Silence killed him three out of four at the classic distances. And no one mentions Flying Paster but one person; all he ran against was The BID.

This is a joke, 20 years from now Curlin will be 1,2, or 3 on everyones list. He's just to new now, when no horse accomplishes what he did in the next 20 years, then and only then you'll appriciate him more. You will be telling your grand kid's about him.

His record 16 starts ,11 wins and 2 seconds and 2 thirds

He won

Rebel

Arkansas Derby

Preakness

2nd at the Belmont

Haskel

Breeders cup Classic

Jocky Club Gold cup (twice)

Jaquar Handicap

Dubai World Cup

Stephan Foster

Woodward

Makes no sense that Risen Star was not on the list. What is the reasoning behind that??

Fun to think about!

Does anyone think that Run Dusty Run could have taken the TC if not for Slew.

Bimelech, anyone?  Poorly prepped, he was overweight and hurried to get to the Derby.  He was also shod wrong for the sloppy conditions of Derby Day, and slipped and slid trying to catch Clyde Van Dusen.  

Risen Star should be on the list (go watch his Derby ride, then watch his Belmont ride...2nd fastest ever at that time, next to his Dad).  Also, Sham needs a little more love. Look at his fractions in the Derby, the Preakness, and the first mile and 1/16th of the Belmont!

More on Forego's Derby:

He was (like Candy Spots)rushed into the Derby; his rider was a no-name riding in his one-and-only Derby; he actually bounced off the rail at the 3/8's pole.  Nevertheless, he rallied to finish fourth.

The exclusion of Damascus and Round Table is inexplicable.

My first vote would be DAMASCUS but given the choices I agree with Alydar and Native Dancer. The Grey Ghost was the one the best ever and I would give him the nod. I think Nashua is a litle low here. I have him a lot higher. The Swaps and Nashua races ranks at least as high as the Alydar/Affirmed. I don't have Curlin that high here because I considered the choices by the consideration of being on top form. Something like Holy Bull and Forego but not as extreme. I think the preakness race Curlin went to the top and stayed there.

This is really fun. Thank you author! But I think a lot of folks are confused. The list presented is not ranked, its alphabetical!!! Still, none can touch Native Dancer.

No Damascus?  Better work on a new list.

n I have to agree with the ppl in their support of Curlin. He at least has to be top 5. To say he is/was over rated, well I guess he was overated from day one then as I recall hearing quite a bit about him, and then him proving it. Native Dancer is the only pick for #1. Easy Goer, loved the horse, lots of wins and places in G1s. But come on, he was not even the best horse of his yr. Sunday Silence kinda owned him I thought, even though I was betting on EG. SS beat him in every big race they met. This includes KY Derby and the BC. I got a name for you to think on. Soul of the Matter. Had it not been for the great Cigar, no telling what he would have accomplished. Cigar beat him 6 or 6 times in his winning streak. Soul finishing 2nd each time. Could run and win sprints or the classic distances, in mud, slop or lightening fast track. Only G1s he finished worse than 2nd was the Pacific twice(I think) and the KY Derby(5th). Not saying he was one of the best of all time, just saying it's hard to pick 10 when horses like Soul Of The Matter are also sooo much a part of the history, but not even remembered.

One other comment. I saw where Joe the K or somebody calledn Monarchos a plodder. LOL. Hardly ran like a plodder on Derby day. Not only won, but ran like 2nd fastest Derby ever. He is STILL one of ONLY 2 to run it under 2:00. Can't seem to recall who that one red horse was that ran the other one. Hehehe

1. Afleet Alex

2. Curlin

3. Point Given

4. Easy Goer

5. Alydar

6. Native Dancer

7. Sham

8. Nashua

9. Bold Ruler

10. Holy Bull

Man o War. End of discussion... and for those who thought 49er didn't run in the Preakness...7th to Risen Star. Also Little Current had horrible luck/ride in the Derby and dominated the last 2 jewels.  So tough to compare different generations..but fun

Skip Away not being on the list is ridiculous! He was voted 3 year old champ in 1996 based on winning the Blue Grass Stakes,

Woodbine Million,

Haskell,

Ohio Derby,and beating Cigar in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.He was 2nd in both Preakness and Belmont. He also went on to be a star older horse.

FOREGO!!!!!

There were two comments stating that Monarchos was the only horse to run the Derby in under 2 minutes other than Secretariat.  Sham ran the Derby in 1:59 4/5.

To the moderator who is setting up this blog. I 've posted on this thing twice. I see my screen name on here twice, but niether comments are authored by me.Whats up. I think Afleet Alex was one of the best of the last few years. Also Lilttle Current, who got lost in the calvary that was the 100th Run For The Roses but easily won the Preakness and Belmont. Or Risen Star who defeated Fourty Niner and Winning Colors in the next two legs.

miramartzu - the name of the commenter is displayed below the comment. I see two comments attributed to you regarding Little Current and Risen Star, and one regarding Afleet Alex and Little Current. If these are not your comments, I can delete them.

Lmaris said: I also wonder how the pre-1990's horses would have done if coddled like the snowflakes of today...

One of the things I wonder is how a horse like Secretariat, who thrived on long, fast works, would have fared in this day and age. He didn't run as well when he didn't get enough work.  Maybe today he'd be just another nice horse.  Maybe one of the nice horses we've seen recently could have been so much more.

Sham

  Broke the track record with big red and he's last WOW

Elaine Winter - the reason Man O' War's name is not on this list is because he did not run in the Kentucky Derby as his owner Samuel D. Riddle thought the race was run too early in a horse's 3 year old year, he won the Preakness Stakes and the Belmont Stakes so I believe without a doubt that he would have won the Kentucky Derby and thus the Triple Crown. These rankings was for those horses that had run in the Kentucky Derby but had lost. Sorry.

Julie L-

I know! Please read my oops post below Paula Higgins and above Th7horses, several post up.

Chip- Sham did not finish second to Secretariat in the Belmont. He  finished last after breaking down.

Blood Horse Staff:  Re: Secretariat with the layoff currently given to today's race horses..Back in the day, they ran horses when fit, and worked them ore than once every 10 days.  But then they weren't allowed race day meds, and Lasix was acknowledged as a masking drug, and also banned.

Run 'em sound or don't run 'em.  Even Skip Away ran 2x the starts of Curlin, who at the end of his 4 yr season wasno't the horse he was at 3.

Lucian kept his horse at the peak of their game, and ran them accordingly.  Today the "top" horses rarely if ever run more than once a month and their trainers whine when assigned 120+ lbs.  Look what the old boys carried, or even what the Europeans do today.  Few horses after 1990 ever carried 126+ other than the clasics or BC, or ran over 9 furlongs more than once a year.

Compare what Curlin's short and light weight career to even Bold Ruler's:

Won Preakness S., Flamingo S., Monmouth H. (10 fur, 134lbs), Suburban H. (10 fur,134 lbs, giving 25lbs to 2nd place (Clem), Trenton H. (10 fur, beating Gallant Man & Round Table), Wood Memorial, Futurity S., Carter H., Benjamin Franklin H. (136 lbs), The Time Square H. (128 lbs)

Did Curlin EVER carry more than 126?  Afleet Alex?  Point Given?    

Lmaris - FYI the commenter's name is below their comment. I think you meant to address Cleone.

TO CLEONE: Trust me. No matter what era or in whose barn he raced, Secretariat would never be "just another nice horse." I don't know if you ever saw him race (live, not on videos). If not, then maybe you can't visualize just what an incredible physical specimen he was. YouTube vids and even photos simply are no substitute for having seen Secretariat live. ANY horseman or woman would know what they had in such a colt. If you've never read it, I recommend William Nack's wonderful biography of Big Red, simply titled "Secretariat."

In October 1989, Secretariat was accorded the unusual honor of a full obituary in Sports Illustrated. Here's some of what it had to say:

"Secretariat was a picture horse with an extraordinarily deep shoulder, well-sprung ribs for heart and lung room, and well-developed hindquarters for propulsive power. As a 2-year-old he exploded on the scene as no juvenile had in years, winning seven of nine races. So overpowering were his performances that at season's end he was named the 1972 Horse of the Year, the only 2-year-old ever to be so honored." [My note: Actually, Red won 8 of 9 in 1972, but was ridiculously DQ's in the Champagne Stakes.]

"Playful but poised, Secretariat sometimes behaved more like a puppy than a colt. One morning a reporter was standing in front of the horse's stall, writing in a spiral notebook, when Secretariat stretched his neck, seized the notebook in his teeth and retreated into the stall. Dropping the notebook on a bed of straw, he looked up at the reporter as if to say, 'Well, dummy, are you just going to stand there?'"

In his book, William Nack described the first time legendary sportswriter Charles Hatton saw Red: "Secretariat walked down the pathway toward the paddock, toward...Hatton, who saw the colt and came to his feet...Hatton had seen thousands of horses in his life, thousands of two-year-olds, and suddenly on this July afternoon of 1972 he found the 106-carat diamond: 'It was like seeing a bunch of gravel and there was the Kohinoor lying in there. It was so unexpected, I thought, Jesus Christ, I never saw a horse that looked like that before.'" [Note: Hatton had seen Man o'War race.]

Nack continued, "Hatton followed the youngster to the saddling area. 'First thing I know, I look around and there was a circle of people standing there like Man o'War was being saddled,' Hatton recalled...'You carry an ideal around in your head, and boy, I thought, This is it. I never saw perfection before. I absolutely could not fault him in any way. And neither could the rest of them...The body and the head and the eye and the general attidude. It was just incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes, frankly. I just couldn't because I've made a kind of thing of looking at horses since before the First World War, when I was a kid, but I never saw a horse like that...It was the thrill of a lifetime.'"

ummm, excuse me but...Easy Goer didn't win much if ANy outside of NY, he had to take his track with him..Better then SS??? Are you kidding me?

What about Northern Dancer?

Native Dancer followed by Alydar has to be the top two that are on your list, followed by the Bid who is not.

As a previous poster mentioned, it appears the subject of this blog is which horse was the overall greatest. The fun thing about blogs is we all get a chance to post our opinions.  As a lifelong huge fan of Native Dancer (even though I'm too young to have seen him) I am very familiar with his fantastic accomplishments.  Many others may not be so I'll share a bit of info:  He started 9 times (7 stakes) as a 2 year old and won them all.  That included 4 races in the month of August 1952 alone: 8/4, 8/16, 8/23 and 8/30. He then raced twice in September with the second of those races (the Belmont Futurity) resulting in a world record equalling time!  At three he had two derby preps the Gotham and the Wood Memorial which both took place in the two consecutive weeks before the Kentucky Derby (4-18 and 4-25 with the Derby on 5-2). That means when he lost the derby by a diminishing head he was running for the 3rd week in a row! Had he not been severely bumped and given a horrible ride-he would have won in spite of that. He then ran in the Withers 2 weeks later and the Preakness the week after that.  At that point he had a 3 week "rest" until the Belmont.  This great horse ran 6 races in a 9 week time frame and won 5 of them! Now THAT is incredible! That isn't all - but I'm not trying to write a book here. LOL!  In spite of my research I cannot find another horse on the list that shows such a record of 21 wins in 22 starts nor were they under such demanding conditions.  Don't get me wrong-I love all of them but I would love to see him get his due credit!  Example race records:  Alydar: 26-14-9-1, Afleet Alex: 12-8-2-1, Easy Goer: 20-14-5-1, Nashua: 30-22-4-1, Bold Ruler: 33-23-4-2, Curlin: 16-11-2-2, Sham: 13-5-5-1 and Holy Bull: 16-13-0-0.

Risen Star (from those I saw)

Dancer1Fan,

Try Man O'War..21 races, 20 wins..a fluke second just like the Dancer..oh and he carried weight..as a TWO yr old..130 I believe..I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think so.

But your right..Native Dancer has got to be the best horse not to win the triple...ever..

SundaySllenced: Man O'War's record was equally impressive but I did not mention him since he was not on the list.  His one loss was also due to extenuating circumstances.

To SundaySilenced and others, to be eligible for this list, a horse must have both actually run in the Kentucky Derby and not won. Please read the many excellent posts that have already pointed out upteen times that the great Man O' War is not eligible for the simple reason that his owner did not enter him. Northern Dancer is not eligible for inclusion because of the simple fact that he won the 1964 Derby and his time of 2 flat was the record until Secretariat's race in 1973. It is still the 3rd best winning Derby time.

I think that many folks have made some terrific selections and I do not wish to simply repeat what has already been written. I'm not sure he is eligible for this list since he actually finished first in 1968 and lacks the credentials to be considered great, but Dancer's Image did cross the finish line first even though Forward Pass is remembered as the winner because of a drug DQ. Another candidate might be Blue Larkspur who finished 4th in 1929. That race is remembered today because its winner was a gelding and he broke from post 20. Blue Larkspur was ranked 100th in the Blood Horse rankings of the top 100 horses of the 20th Century and had a major impact on the breed through his daughters.

EASY GOER ALL THE WAY...Both Easy Goer and Sunday Silence would have been Triple Crown Champion if they didnt have to face each other. And as far as what Easy Goer accomplished in his 3yo year, it isnt matched by many at all, and that includes every legend. To still hold the 3yo mile record and come that close(1/5 of a second)to Dr fagers World record, and to still hold the 2nd fastest Belmont Stakes behind only Secretariat, and to top those two off with doing what he did after the Triple Crown series,when 99% of all horses are exhausted and the Triple Crown took a savage toll on most. Easy Goer's 3yo year was Legendary!!

Little Current.  Don't leave him out.  Had a horrible trip in the Derby and dusted them in the Preakness and Belmont.  Deserves to be on this list.

Forego is not on the list-why?

Afleet Alex is a lightweight compared to what Forego did during his long career

Geldings always get forgotten and they are truly the warriors of horse racing.

Lmaris,

    Yes, in fact curlin did carry more than 126lbs. He carried 132lbs in the Jaguar Handicap, and the came home to the US and ran in the Stephen Foster under 128lbs. Any more questions?

Of the horses listed in the poll, the best horse not to win the Derby was Native Dancer. Period.

I am having trouble displaying the list so I'm at a disadvantage here, and I'm probably a great deal older than most contributors.

Here is my list in no particular order:

Discovery

Round Table

Bold Ruler

Forego

Coaltown(Horse of the Year,1949)

Native Dancer

Damascus

Tom Rolfe

Nashua

Candy Spots

Only race Native Dancer ever lost was the Derby. How can you argue with that? He ranks high on any greatest of all time list including Derby winners!!

Apparently running second to better horses earns you a place in history.  And here I thought judging "best" had something to do with winning races, carrying weight, becoming a Champion.  Sure can't argue with number 1 (he was my choice), or last for that matter, but my choices were wildly different than the results.  Must be my age.  I remember those horses from the 1950s.

Sunday Silence, both Northern Dancer and Spectacular Bid won the Derby.  Unless I'm misunderstanding your comments, they'd not be eligible for this poll.

Little Current-he would have been the other Triple Crown winner in the 70s-but for that crowd that no longer can make up the numbers

Curlin is my emotional favorite, but history demands that Native Dancer is first.

Again I think Easy Goer is way over hyped - much better horses on this list and left off the list (Little Current)...Sunday Silence could win anywhere - not so Easy Goer. Who won 2 of the 3 triple crown races and who won the BC?

EASY GOER- What he did in his 3yo year in Unmatched-truely Legendary!!

For Big Red - yes, I saw Secretariat run live (not in person, however, something I will always regret) and I own a dog-eared and falling-apart first edition of Bill Nack's book.  Secretariat will probably always be my ideal racehorse, from his stunning conformation to his stunning performances to his bright copper coat and alert expression.

But you know, he did run better if he got a fast work three or four days before a race.  Seems like nobody breezes a horse five furlongs three days before a race any more.  So my wondering is - would Big Red have been quite so impressive as a runner if he'd been coddled the way today's horses are?  If he didn't get that five-furlong "zinger" three days out?  He breezed five furlongs in :57 flat three days before setting a new world record in the inaugural Marlboro Cup.  When was the last time you saw a horse breeze five furlongs in :57 flat no matter when they were racing?

Yeah, I know, some of that was just him being very fast - but I think some of it was Lucien Laurin LETTING him work very fast.  And I'm not sure many trainers today would do that.  That's my point.  

By the way, I always love your posts, especially when they are about our mutual favorite horse!  

TO CLEONE: Thanks for your nice reply. I take your point about how horses are trained much more softly these days. I guess we are both more old school in the way we view training methods. I also take your point about Red in this sense: Not all trainers are created equal. Some are more talented and skilled than others. I do think it is possible for mediocre connections to ruin a good horse. Thank goodness we never had to worry about that where Red was concerned. Mrs. Chenery, Lucien, Ronnie, Eddie and even Billy Silver were all top notch. Classy, every one of them.

EASY GOER ALL THE WAY....One of the Greatest 3yo Campaigns in the history of the sport..Easy Goer's 3yo year ranks right up there with the likes of Buckpasser,Damascus and Spectacular Bid...I did not know he was the only horse to reel off the Championship races of the Whitney, Travers, Woodward and Jockey Club Gold Cup, this after the Grueling Triple Crown and running the Fastest 8F ever by a 3yo in 1:32 2/5 & the 2nd Fastest Belmont Stakes in 2:26..Magical!!

What about Sham? Any other year he would have done it.

I voted for Sham in third, right behind Native Dancer and Alydar.  I saw him run that day, and he worked his heart out to be as close as he was to a truly brilliant horse turning in a truly brilliant performance.  Sham finished eight lengths in front of the third place horse.  I've always felt bad for Sham, whose misfortune was to be born in the wrong year!  

Oh yes, Coaltown should have been on the list! I have to go with Alydar & his son Easy Goer, but after that it is a toss up. I think I put Native Diver third.

Little Current!

Wista, if you remember Discovery and Coaltown, you've got this old codger beat in the most senior citizen contest. As an old codger I must freely admit that I often confuse the names Foolish Pleasure and Forward Pass. Foolish Pleasure won the 1975 Kentucky Derby, but is most remembered today for not losing a certain match race two months later. Dancer's Image won the 1968 Kentucky Derby, but was later disqualified for a drug violation and the historic honor of that Derby win was awarded to the runner-up, Forward Pass. All day I was worried that I had once again confused the FPs. But I just checked, and it seems that I actually got it right the first time. I still think I confused the two. If so, the moderator caught my senility, took mercy on an old man and corrected my stupidity. For that I am grateful.

When I was a kid, my Dad and I would discuss the greatest race horses of all time. He was a big fan of 1949 HOY Coaltown who spent much of his career in the shadow of the great Citation. Wista, thanks for the memory.

To all you who think little of Sham because he finished 2nd in both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, consider that the horse who won those races set a record in the Derby which still stands and after an obvious timer malfunction which was acknowledged by Pimlico during the running of that Preakness the winner was given the hand-timed clocking of the track official in charge of back-ups. DRF still credits Sham's nemesis with setting another stakes record that day. Then after suffering these two extremely tough beats, Sham challenged The Machine right from the start of that famous Belmont. According to the "2009 Thoroughbred Times Racing Almanac" Secretariat's splits for the half-mile, 6 furlongs, mile and mile and a quarter are still the fastest. Anyone with even a basic knowledge of pace handicapping knows that the price the loser of a heated battle for the early lead often pays is a finish much further back than the effort deserved. Poor Sham. He ran into Secretariat in 3 consecutive races for which that rival was simply unbeatable and now he must suffer slings and arrows flung at him by the unknowing. He deserves better.

This is easy when you stop and think about it. The answer is Damascus (one of the all time greats), Native Dancer(not far behind), Forego, Point Given (Gary Stevens worst ride ever), Bold Ruler and Sham. Sham probably wins the Triple Crown in any other year.

For those who say Easy Goer is over hyped and couldn't take his game on the road.What you don't realize is that your comments are disparaging to Sunday Silence-the only horse to finish ahead of him outside of the NYRA circuit.Easy Goer was a great horse at six furlongs to ,possibly, two miles.I still maintain if you switch trainers and jockeys, "Easy" wins three out of four-he was never going to beat Sunday Silence in the Churchill slop.

Sham at the bottom??? Anyone who saw his epic battles with Secretariat would not agree with that. Any other year, Sham would have won the Crown. Remember him smashing his head in the starting gate in one race, knocking out teeth, and still fighting Big Red right to the end? Sham was amazing. It was his bad luck to be born the same year as Secretariat.

Yes, Forego certainly should be included. BTW I put Native Dancer on top, Curlin second.

If FOREGO and DAMASCUS had been mentioned on this list I would have ranked them #1 and #2, with NATIVE DANCER being #3 and NASHUA #4.

From 1990 and on nobody would hold a candle to Holy Bull. The only one that comes close is Point Given.

Afleet Alex and Curlin were amazing, but they would have been staring at Holy Bull's rear end the entire time.

Fans who are new to racing may not know about the great horses of the past, so you see these polls and the results are skewed in favor of recent runners. Some people actually think CURLIN is one of the top horses to ever race, and they use the "money title" as evidence of that (when it's really only "evidence" of the de-valuation and deterioration of the dollar).

I can remember when a dollar was a dollar, back in the early 1970's, and SECRETARIAT, RIVA RIDGE and COUGAR II all retired in the Top 12 on the all-time earnings list, and their earnings were in the $1.3 million to $1.1 million range.

As for the Kentucky Derby debate, I think lots of yesterday's greats are forgotten, or not even considered, because so many racing fans don't know just how great the greats of yesterday really were.

EASY GOER all the way. His Three Year Old year speaks for themselves. His accomplishments in that 3yo year as well as his entire career speak for themselves. What a Freak, What a Champion!

Point Given by far is the best horse on this list by far.

Hands down,  Native Dancer is the BEST horse to lose the derby due to a lousey ride by his jockey. If he would have been asked to move sooner he would have gotten there,  what a complete blunder!  This horse was ripped off and his jockey should have been fired.

Native Dancer is the reason I love and follow racing. His decendents are the other. I agree with most of the poll. I have to say that the reading comp of this blog is frustrating since the question posed was "which of THESE 10 horse that RAN in the Derby and failed to win was the greatest". How hard is that to understand and rate. I too believe Forego should have been included but he wasn't and that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest. Likewise, as much as I love Native Dancer and he topped this rating, I feel that if you asked me to compared him to Secretariat, I would have to go with Big Red. And I feel most folks would agree. And I don't think the Dancer's connection would be insulted.(They might not agree but hey, if he was my horse, I wouldn't either.)

Alydar should be 1, Then Native Dancer, Then Point Given.....BUT where is the love for "SHAM", Come on!, He should not be last, Maybe everyone is just too young too remember him, lol......

"Friesan Fire" Will win The Derby this year, Mark it down....

What a great idea for a list!

I agree Sham should be a LOT higher on the list - broke 2 teeth in the starting gate, swallowed his own blood the whole race and STILL managed to run the 2nd fastest Derby in the history of the race.  He would have been fun to watch late in his 3yo year and on into his 4th.  Not his fault he cracked a bone in his leg during or just after the Belmont.

For me, Native Dancer is the hands down winner on this list.  I would have liked to see him look some of these horses in the eye at the quarter pole, and I think he would have taken them all.  Some would have given him quite a fight, but I think he'd take them.

The "plodder" Monarchos?  1:59.4 for a mile and a quarter ain't plodding.  Second only to Secretariat (and essentially tied with Sham) for the Derby.

I do agree that Forego and Damascus belong on this list.  Forego finished 4th behind Secretariat in '73, after having smashed against the fence near the top of the stretch (some say you can see the cloud of dust and white paint he stirred up).  Would he have caught Secretariat that day?  Probably not.  Would he have caught him as a 4 year old?  Now THAT I'd pay money to see!

gotta love these discussions!

I'm a bit late with this but DAMASCUS was the best horse not to win the Derby

 NATIVE DANCER

 ALYDAR

RISEN STAR

Native Dancer by a long shot

Yeah I got over zealous with the triple crown and the Derby winners..lol..But I did mention Man O War strictly for a record comparison to Native D..I know he didnt run in the Derby...forgive me for my excitment on the others, I did get it wrong as we were talking about derby non winners and not triple crown..

Native Dancer has to be #1.  For #2 I'd vote for a horse not on your list, Slew o' Gold.  People tend to forget just how good he really was.

Absolutely comical not to include FOREGO!  His misfortune was being a 3yo in the year of SECRETARIAT.

Sham deserves a better ranking.Unfortunately like Forego he was from the same crop as Secretariat.And we all know what Forego went on to accomplish.

Native Dancer,nobody has a leg to stand on who claims another horse not to win was better.What is really amazing is that in 2 years he ran 22 times 21 wins and 1 2nd-now compare that to today's horses who run 6 times[maybe] a year and need so much time off between races!there will never be another horse who can match his record, certainly none of the horses of the modern era. Training logic has changed for the worst, horses are not trained to their max.

Curlin won a total of ONE of the classic races.  He was beaten by a filly in another, and beat a bunch of nobodies in the two times he carried any weight.

Point Given beat no one, and is an afterthought at best.

Alydar ran into Affirmed, and Sham ran into Secretariat.  Without those GREAT, not adequate as in Curlin and Point Given's cases, horses, they'd likely be TC winners themselves.

Running a grand total of 15 times, more often than not more than 4 weeks between starts is not the sign of greatness.  

Put Curlin or any of the pre-1990 horses into the schedule of those who went before and they'd be shown lacking.

Sham at the bottom of the list is a tragic.

Of course those who never saw these great horses or who refuse to learn about them will not understand the difference.  

None are so blind...

EASY GOER- Simply magnificent,extraordinary, spectacular horse who had one of the Greatest 3yo Campaigns in the history of thoroughbred racing!!

I'm a great CURLIN fan and have to put him second to Alydar as much as I want to put him first. And I would definitely put Afleet Alex 3rd after the way he righted himself in the Preakness and went on to win that race and the Belmont; great horse! They're all great horses. Native Dancer, of course, is also up there! This was a fun blog! Thank you for the chance.  What a great group of all-time greats!

GO CURLIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lmairs,

   What do you call Einstien? He's not a nobody, if i recall correctly he won graded races on all three surfaces. Also i believe he carried like 130lbs in the World Cup, You call the best dirt horses in the world nobodies?

Un-lucky alydar, affirmed was there...same with Sham...theres Secritariat.

But for Point Given not to win is a big lost. He did not explode on that big day. If you look in the paper, he's un-beatable just like what he did in Preakness and Belmont.

I believe Curlin still not on the peak during Kentucky, He even lost to Rag to Riches in Belmont.

Hey guys, it is not what the horse accomplished in his career. Lets just talk about the Kentucky Derby race. Curlin has no chance to win that race against Street Sense on that day.

But Sham and Alydar are the horses that can win that race easily without Secritariat and Affirmed.

The big loser in the Derby is Point Given...He is the best on that field...look what he did in Preakness and Belmont.

Whoops!

One must include Sword Dancer. He lost the Derby in a photo, was second in the Praekness, and then won the Belmont. Later, in the Fall classics, he beat outstanding older horses, Round Table and Hillsdale, and went on to become Horse of the Year. At stud he sired Damascus, one of the best ever.

Somebody wrote that Curlin is among the best ever. No way! He is not of the likes of Man O'War, Secretariat, Citation, Ribot, Sea Bird, Kelso, Forego, Seattle Slew, Native Dancer, Bold Ruler, Damascus, Dr. Fager, Nashua, and Buckpasser. If we could bring them all back in a race at 1 1/4 on a fast track, Curlin, we would be the longest shot in the race!

It is quite difficult to compare horses of the past with modern throughbreds. With the exception of Curlin, the aforementioned raced without Bute, Lasix, steroids, and the other drugs, legal and illegal administered to horses today. In fact, the trainers of those horses, again with exception of Curlin, I don't belive ever had a positive urine test for any of their horses. Today trainers get suspended all the time and little is done to deter them. It seems that the more infractions a trainer receives, the more owners he attracts!

Interesting question: What will be the state of thoroughbred horseracing ten years from now? Twenty five years from now? Fifty years from now?

I'm not too optimistic.

Lordy...what did Curlin ever do to you people? LOL

Since this is a poll about "should not have lost" the Derby...I too would have to remove him from this list. And I love that horse like I have loved no other colt since Spectaculr Bid. No, not comparing the two as racehorses, Bid did so much more, but just my feelings towards them both.

Anyway...the Curlin who ran in the Derby was not the same Curlin we saw develop over the next 18 months that followed. Thus, as remarkable as it was that he was 3rd in his FOURTH career start, he didn't necessarily "deserve" the win. I do believe that when that rail "magically" opened up and parted like the Red Sea for Street Sense, it caused Curlin a whole different set of problems (go watch the replay), second to SS on the day would have likely been as close as he was going to get, all things being equal.

But Curlin went on to prove himself, including two more times against SS. Where anyone wants to rank him, for this poll or any other, is their opinion.

I would not put him in the Top 10 of ALL time, but I'd certainly but him in the top FIVE since Cigar. As someone else here noted, give it another 20 years, with REALLY good horses never getting the chance to go on to do great things (early retirements, et al) and thus falling into the "Who knows?" category, Curlin will start rightfully looking better and better to those who inexplicably continue to act as though he never did much.

Ok, so for this list, because I think too many were left off, I'd do a top 3, instead of 10...Native Dancer (no-brainer), Alydar (come ON, how much closer did he have to get?!) and Afleet Alex, in that order. For those that have knocked the choice of 'Alex on THIS list, I invite you to go watch his career both before, and after (albeit it was a short after), and then come back and explain to me how he would not have been a deserving Derby and/or TC winner. It takes NOTHING away from any other horse to admit it, and where he is on any list is again, just opinion.

We may never again see a racehorse who warrants entry to that conjectural list of all-time greats, because so few get the chance. To try and cram one in now, or wait on one to arrive, may be folly, unfortunately.

The sport has changed, forever, and not for the better, I am sorry--SO sorry--to say. If we don't embrace the stars we do get, however short the timeframe, then we're missing out on a LOT of terrific racehorses.

In the end, I have always believed, that's it's simply which horses we like or not, based on little more than sentiment. Sometimes it's more about who our personal favorites are than anything more objective than that, and I think that's okay.

Horse racing at it's core has always been about "My horse can beat your horse", so if we still have that, we still have the passion for it all. :)

Hey Wista, don't get too high on the idea about not as many drug positives in the glory days. They didn't have the tests! Ugly fact to consider, but true.

Kind of like today, every time a new test comes along to monitor the latest trendy enhancement, these part-time amateur chemists move on to the next thing that can't be tested for yet.

I am not saying that our historic greats of the past were all doped, but you can't kid yourself that none of them were. Technology just wasn't what it is now, is all.

I know there were high profile positives for both Bute and Lasix before they became legalized, so if there were using those, they were likely using a lot more than that as well.

Interesting that some people think this is a poll on horses that should not have have lost the Kentucky Derby. It doesn't say that. It says: "These 10 Thoroughbred greats all ran in the Kentucky Derby, but failed to win. How would you rank them?" I took that to mean rank them in order of greatness, irregardless of how they ran in the Derby.

In other words, their Derby finish may or may not be relevant.

I am thrilled to see all the love for Sham. I believe if he had been born any other year than 1970 not only would he have won the Triple Crown, but he would be in the Hall of Fame. He would have met a higher class of mare and thanks to his Princequillo heart would be a major influence on the breed today through his daughters. Secretariat took all that away from him.

I just returned from Oaklawn where I watched Rachel Alexandra toy with a solid group of rivals. She's quite a looker. Might be as good as Eight Belles. We'll have to wait and see how she finishes out the year.

Anyway, I have in my posession a copy of Churchill Downs' 2005 Media Guide. It has the charts for every running of The Derby through 2004. So I thought I would start with the very first Derby which was run in 1875 and won by Aristides. I wanted to use some guidelines to help me find horses who actually ran in but did not win The Derby and yet qualify as a great horse. To determine whether or not a horse can be considered great I decided to only use those who won either the Preakness or Belmont, an Eclipse award or the equivalent before those were instituted, or was voted into the Hall of Fame.

Immediately, my eyes caught the name of Ten Broeck who finished 5th beat 5 lengths by Aristides. Interestingly, his jockey was named Kelso. Ten Broeck was voted into the Hall of Fame in 1982. He once held every American record from one to four miles. His match race with Mollie McCarthy, one of the last great four-mile heat fillies is the subject of the old timey tune "Molly and Tenbrook" which was made famous by Bill Monroe.

Any horse that inspired a great bluegrass piece has to be considered a legend.

I intend to keep working through all the Derbies. As long as this blog is available, I'll post any more nuggets I discover.

Where is Damascus on this list?

Easy Goer was simply spectacular!! His three year old year was history making and legendary!!

Forego-- not his year.

Ruffian- she could have taken all of them.

Forgo (sp) was clearly the best not to win

Interesting...some were facing challenging competition (Alydar, Easy Goer), some had to face "modern" Kentucky Derby with 19 rivals that exponentially makes a different race, some became great sires so now we try to retroactively classify them as the best that never won, and some GREW into great racehorses.  I'm soooo glad Curlin raced a bit longer, it's too easy to retire early (although he might have if not for his ownership situtation- then he would be breeding subpar mares in an obscure state or country).

Curlin.  By a long shot.

RISEN STAR... one of the most forgotten .... landslide wins in the Preakness & Belmont...

and I loved Wild Again... just wanted his name here! LOL!!!

Let me just say that the way Afleet Alex stuck the Preakness and Belmont is proof that, given a better chance, he could have been the twelfth TC winner.  That's why he's in front of Native Dancer - whom I didn't see race in the Derby, so can't say which was a better race.  And you gotta believer Risen Star could've kicked hindquarter!  Where's he?

I am old enough.  I saw the Native Dancer/Dark Star Derby on TV.  I've watched every Derby since and never have seen a more heartbreaking loss.  It wasn't Guerin's fault. It was the knocking about and fall back around the first turn.  The Dancer's race record, ability at varying distances, weight carrying ability, all make him #1 on this list.  You haven't seen a horse like him in many years and probably never will.

Thanks for the memories of Ten Broeck and Molly.  Must be my favorite race/song of all time.  Sometimes even makes me get tears.  Training of today is nothing like the past.  I know owners/trainers think about the money, but Thoroughbreds will BORN to run!

What about Little Current??  He is the reason why the field is limited to 20 starters!

Sham ran into a monster.

Denise - it's true what you say about Little Current he should have been on this list and it is due to the traffic he encountered that they began to limit the number of horses in the Derby and many expects back then in the 70's said that if not for the traffic issues Little Current would have won the Triple Crown I remember those races very well.

I would say Native Dancer ranks the top of all great but Kentucky Derby losers.

My vote(s) are ranked by the 'the best horse that should have won' not based on against the horse that did win.  For example, poor Sham was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I don't think he should've won the Derby in that year, so he ranks pretty low on my list.  Conversly, Native Dancer was the best horse and should have won, so he ranks first on my list; and his impact on the thoroughbred racing horse is, to me, second to none. Every horse in last year's KY Derby was descended from Native Dancer...awesome! And it continues this year thru' Unbridled's Song...think how many derby candidates he has had this year as a sire and broodmare sire!  I think this is the year of the grey and I was hoping Larry Jones' Old Fashioned was going to be 'it' but...also, don't forget Stardom Bound (even Rachel Alexandra is related thru' the broodmare sire line).    

Curlin.

i dont cae what you say.

and if your old. i dont care either if you seen them run im person omg your sooooo cool.

i dont care :)

Native Dancer & Alydar to me are relatively a tie.

Native Dancer, however, belongs above Alydar. He was quite a horse and should've definitely gotten that win.

And I will probably be gasped at for saying but I feel Curlin is to far up on the list.

Native Dancer has to be #1 but I fail to understand how Gallant Man, Damascus, Round Table, Discovery, Arts & Letters, Challedon, Alsab, Devil Diver & Forego do not even appear on the list.  Curlin & Afleet Alex may not even belong in the top 100

LMaris,

Curlin carried 132 pounds in the Jaguar cup and 134 pounds in the Stephen Foster.  Can you name any horse who has carried that much in the last 10 years?

LDP,

Curlin carried 134 pounds.

Assmussen was upset with the weight assignment. He was giving away 10 to 15 pounds to every single horse in the race.  He was a great weight carrier.  Didn't phase him.  He was a throwback to the old days of Round Table and Forego.

Okay.  It was interesting reading everyone's thoughts and their picks for the horses who should have won the derby.  What really surprised me is that several people used this blog to beat up on Curlin.  I don't get it.  The horse accomplished quite a bit.  He lost the Derby but did you see the Preakness?  Did you see that run?  Do you know what that cost him for the Belmont?  Yes, he was beaten by a Filly who was bred for the distance and was rested.  She was a great filly and hadn't had to run her guts out 3 weeks before.

What was the winning margin???? A head.  Had Curlin not run the Preakness or even the derby, he probably would have won the Belmont.  He had run two races back to back in two weeks that were tough,  He was tired!!!!!  He still ran his heart out.  Beaten by a filly!!!!  So What!!!!  It seems that that is the defining moment in his career for you haters.  I just don't get it.  Just what did that horse ever do to you?  Did he kick you at the track one day?  Unbelievable.  

Another thing that I would like to make comment on is that Sunday Silence still gets no respect for the great horse he was.  Easy Goer was a great horse, no question.  He was just about perfect and the hell of it is, he ran on bad ankles.  He had ankle problems that nobody knew about and he still ran like a monster.  I loved Easy Goer but he could only beat the black horse from the west 1 time out of 4 meetings.  Everyone still says Easy Goer was the better horse but the proof is in the pudding.  3 out of 4 times is the test and Sunday Silence did it.  Oh sure, the slop, the ride and all the other excuses the fact still remains that Sunday Silence was the only horse to beat Easy Goer more than once.  I'm not taking away from Easy Goer but Sunday Silence deserves the respect he never got in life.  

As far as Secretariat is concerned, we will never see another.  His Belmont will never be equaled or beaten.  Yes, Easy Goer has the second fastest Belmont but he would have been 10 lengths behind Secretariat had he raced that day.

Other than that, everyone makes a great case for their to 10 horses who didn't run the Derby.

Lmaris,

One more thing everyone seems to forget when stating that Curlin was beaten by a filly is that every other horse in the race, including Hardspun was beaten by the filly too.  She won the race so every other colt was beaten by a filly but you all seem to think only Curlin was.

Curlin #3! You gotta be kidding me!!!! Over Easy Goer, Nashua, Holy Bull and Point Given!!! nah!!!

point given for th;is decade and alydar from the past his only bad luck was running the same yr affirmed ran

not even close its sham

Well i have to go with sham. No horse will even come close to Secretariat.  Also Empire maker was very good.