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I am not thrilled that Big Brown will not race at 4. Too many top tier thoroughbreds were retired at 3, often at the peak of their racing careers. Man O' War and Secretariat come to mind, but more recently Smarty Jones, Afleet Alex, Street Sense and Hard Spun were off to the breeding barn at the ripe old age of 3. I would be surprised if Big Brown races after the Belmont. When Secretariat was syndicated for $6,000,000 there was a lot of pressure on Penny Tweedy to retire him so that an accident wouldn't end his stud career before it started. I believe it was only her desire to let him finish out his 3 year old year that allowed us the joy of watching him run a few more months. If Big Brown wins the Belmont, considering the stud fees commanded by Smarty Jones and Fusaichi Pegasus at the start of their careers, I wouln't be surprised that they ask and get a quarter million per mare, soundness issues notwithstanding. The rumor bandied about the NBC Preakness broadcast was that Big Brown is a $50,000,000 horse. That's simply too big an investment to risk on the track.

With millions at stake of course he will be retired after he defeats Casino Drive (who looks to be his closest competition to date) in the Belmont.  A triple crown winner and probable horse of the year & undefeated should fetch $150,000 easily his first year.  I would expect that to jump to 250,000 with a first crop winner.  Curlin has matured into a racing machine and may be more horse than Big Brown could handle so why risk the stallion deal? A lot of people are saying that Big Brown is only beating a mediocre crop of colts & fillies, but Big Brown has defeated all of the top contending 3 year olds to date except Casino Drive and that runner only has 2 races under his belt.  It may be that this crop of horses is not that bad but that Big Brown is just that good.  There has been a tremendous amount of horse left after these races and he is making it look easy.  I for one enjoy watching him work out and race.  

I think it would be great for racing if Big Brown were kept in competition until he either lost a race or turned 10 years of age.

I have mixed feelings about Big Brown not running as a four year old. On one hand, I hate his owners for not letting him race till he's 5! On the other, he did have those problems as a two year old with his feet, and generally cracked hooves don't stay away for long. I'm not saying he's a walking time bomb, however I could see why they would air on the side of caution with such a magnificent animal.

Its all very murky from a racing fan's standpoint, just because we aren't in the thick of things. We don't know every thing that goes on in the barn, so there is no clear cut answer I can give on this, other than I wish our sport had more guts and less selfishness.

I love Big Brown and think he has this wrapped up. I think this answers the durability question. We will never know if our stallions are durable if we retire all of them at 3 and 4. The bottom line is money, and that will never change. Go Big Brown Go.

Only yearlings should be eligible for the triple crown races.

Keep all the Northern Dancers and Mr Prospecters on the farms where they belong. Owners can watch them run in pastures around the breeding sheds.  

I hate that Big Brown's retirement has already been announced! What else can you expect from an investment group owner? Win or lose the Belmont, I'm certain there will be an announcement that the quarter cracks have returned and he will be immediately retired. We will be deprived of seeing a potential match-up with Curlin, and Big Brown will fade into a distant memory soon enough.

His first couple of years at stud, the fee will be sky high, grossly overpriced for a horse of his breeding. No matter how amazing his 4 or 5 career wins will be, it does not gaurentee that he will be a $250,000 sire.

What a depressing announcement this is! Enjoy the Belmont, everyone, because the next time you'll see him will be in a stallion preview video.

Oh for crying out loud...Curlin vs Big Brown in the Breeders cup! Give BB a rest after the Belmont, run him once in Sept then let the showdown begin! It would be a race for the ages...even if BB comes in second...a lot of great duals ended up with the second place finisher winning out in the stud barn. It won't hurt his stud fee. He is still going to be the only living triple crown winner on the planet! BB vs Curlin!!!

His fee will be outrageous and disproportionate to his career, IMHO, Triple Crown or not.  I was thinking in the early hours after the Preakness, if he *is* retired after a Belmont victory I would hesitate to send a mare to him.  Sure, he'd be a fashionable name, but what has he proven except superiority over one crop of horses? His winning times are good, but not spectacular, and a Triple Crown is a near mythical feat...but mythos aside, I'd want to see versatility, tested and proven talent, and longevity to his career to justify the price he'll no doubt command.

FuPeg had an outrageous initial stud fee, and it has since dropped by at least half since his runner have shown themselves not to live up to the FuPeg hype.  For an initial stud fee of $125,000+, I'd want a proven stud.

Financially, it makes no sense to race him on.  Shame, but as romantic as we may make racing--it's a business, and the bottom line is the ultimate decision-maker.  

I think that Big Brown just may be able to pull it off. However there is always that "what if" factor. I don't know how I feel about them announcing Big Brown's plans for retirement prior to the race. I can't say that it is all about the money because if it was, and if they believe 100% that Big Brown will sweep the Triple Crown I think they would have waited to make a bigger deal with someone for more money. On one hand I would love to see Big Brown mature a bit more and watch him in his 4th and 5th year but I can also understand if they don't want to take the chance of him getting injured. Personally I don't think that Big Brown will run in the Breeder's Cup for a chance to win the Classic, especially if he wins the Triple Crown. That in its self is quite an accomplishment and I doubt that his connections will push him farther to try and "prove" him to the non-believers. In answer to the question of "Would a Triple Crown be good for horse racing's public perception?" sure, I think so. I think those on the outside sometimes think that it is all about the money and not about the love of the animal and sport. I just hope that those who feel that we are being cruel by racing these horses will open their eyes and see that we are in this industry because we can't stand to be away from an animal as magnificent as the equine.

I think Big Brown is a good looking horse, is he amazing, I'm not so sure.  I would love to see him race Curlin.  

I think in this day and age winning the triple crown would give a big boost to the sport.  But I think with all the current negative public images (Barbaro and Eight Bells fresh in our minds), over the past few years a horse that continues to race into its four and five year old season is even more impressive than winning the triple crown.  

I feel that retiring Big Brown in his three year old season proves to the not so educated racing fans that even the Owners/trainer of the horses are afraid to keep the horses running in fear of unsafe conditions or injury.

Further more I think putting Big Brown to stud is not the best of ideas.  Not to offend anyone in the industry but breeding a horse with "bad feet" is just the thing the industry needs to avoid.  I would rather see a sturdy sound horse with moderate racing ability and mediocre blood lines produce a more lasting foal than see a “assumed” triple crown winner pass on bad feet.

But because of how things are in the industry as they stand Big Brown will go to stud for probably an astronomical fee and I can only hope that the breeders select mares that will override the downfalls he as a stallion faces.  

I know I wont breed any mare of mine to a stallion that ran less than 15 times in his life.

I too am not thrilled he won't be racing at 4. I personally think the NTRA should put strict rules on races to keep horses in competition longer (Like, not allowing a horse with a stud contract to compete in a race). And as far as his cracked feet - could it be a trait passed on to his foals? If so, he shouldn't be entering the gene pool at all, no matter how great he may run.

Everytime I hear a top horse has a stud deal in place before the age of 4, it sickens me and brings me closer to giving up on this sport. We shouldn't allow the stud barns to dictate how the horses are run.

big brown vs curling would be even greater than afirmed vs alydar.

will it happened? if so racing will never forget it1.

I'd like to see him race through the Breeders Cup but I don't think he could handle Curlin.  If you look at what Smarty brought I think his fee will be $250,000 or $300,000 if he takes the triple crown.

Big Brown is fantastic.  He will be retired after the Belmont, & I think his stud fee will be in the neighborhood of $500,000 to $750,000.

I think that bb will win the tc and it will also help the view of the public but I also think that this will be the most talked about tc in a while not only for bb but also for eb. Go Brown Go. His fee will be at least 300,000 if he does win.

I also have mixed feelings about the whole subject too. One, thats the main reason why the breed itself is as weak as ever. Just because a horse wins a few races, that doesnt mean their ability will be passed on their children. As gifted as Big Brown is, I get the impression he is fragile. If a horse is fragile and injurys easily, he should not be used for stud, period. For example, Unbridled was a horse with problems, that trait got passed on to his son Unbridled Song, who in turn happens to be the sire of Eight Belles. I really think it had to be something about her breeding that led to that freakish accident. Anyway, back to the subject at hand, a showdown between Curlin and Big Brown in the Breeders Cup Classic would be good for the sport. But honestly, Even if Big Brown wins the triple crown, I think he needs to do more to be considered great, like winning the Breeders Cup Classic and some other classic races like the Jockey Club Gold Cup or the Travers, winning 5 races doesnt make you great. Too many of the good ones are retiring early in their careers when in actuality, they havent done anything except win a couple of big races. Greed is what going to be the Thoroughbred's demise, btw Big Brown will the triple crown. If he continue his winning ways at the end of the year, then he can be  called great.

I think Big Brown is facing a sad crop of colts in my opinion. Casino drive looks exceptional and think he will beat brown in the belmont after a long stretch duel as we saw last year. Casino drive will be rested and bred to get the mile and a half. I think he should race til five but yall know that wont happen. He is worth at least 100,000 if he loses the belmont. If he wins i think 200,000!!!

As ever, money will talk and he'll be retired at 3 for around the $150,000 mark.  And if he should happen to throw a large number of unsound, or just plain slow horses?  Well at stud books of 150-plus, it'll be too late and so the breed gets weaker and weaker.

Blood-Horse: Please publish the answers of a couple well-respected vets on the subject of heredity of Big Brown's quarter crack problem: is it hereditary and, if so, from which parent/grandparent did he inherit it?

And did Eight Belles have a visual conformation issue with her ankles? Or were they outwardly "perfect" appearing?

• Scot's reply: I'm afraid genetic knowledge isn't so advanced that a veterinarian would be able to pinpoint the source of a specific structural weakness, if one existed.  While quarter cracks are undoubtedly more common in horses with "weak" hooves, it's likely that there are multiple factors that lead to the condition. As for Eight Belles' ankles... she received the best of care from professional horsemen; if any part of her build were suspect, she wouldn't have been in the Derby.  You can find additional information on equine structural soundess and conformation on The Blood-Horse's sister site, www.TheHorse.com, including a special feature on Big Brown's feet, published just before the Preakness, that has multiple pictures and a video about the special shoes worn by Big Brown.

IF BB wins the Belmont and then retires I would possibly say he would command a stud fee of $150-$200K since Smarty Jones only won two legs and he commands $100.  I do think it a shame that they are going to retire him so soon but I know the investment is high.  I myself would not breed to him due to his feet, he could pass it on.  Give me a good tough reliable like Hard Spun, he is the closest I have seen to being a durable horse in the whole three year old croop that ran off for stud.  

Big brown's Preakness burst was similar to Arazi's in his Breeders Cup win. Greatness is only defined with longevity. The racing industry seems to be reaching for bigger pieces of the pie in the short run in all aspects. My fear, by not creating  true equine stars, is that the pie will be much smaller in the future.

Ghostzapper stood $200,000 his first year,

I predict like others Big Brown will stnd for $300,000.  Especially since Storm Cat has been taking out of duty.

there is no way as a horseman that I would be FORCED to run a horse until the age of 5 or 6, however you could enforce a rule that a horse could not enter the stud barn until the age of 6 or 7.  This would encourage those that entirely money driven to seek out horses with proven racing longevity.  It wouldn't be fiscally prudent to retire a horse early so therefore the alternative would be to keep them in training.  It would also help to establish the true horse trainers.

Let's not forget that BB is better suited to the turf, and that Curlin's owners have said they want to stay away from synthetic surfaces.  If the two were to meet, the best chance might be either the Arlington Million, Arc, or Japan Cup.  As to the original question, if BB can win the Belmont and then go on to defeat older horses on the turf and dirt, we might be looking at a 350K stud fee to start, maybe more.  If all that happens, I wonder if Coolmore or Darley would try to buy the horse from 3 Chimneys for over 100 Million.

• Scot's reply: Interesting comments, Bigred.  The way I've been looking at it is this:  the rumor is that the Big Brown / Three Chimneys deal was $50 million. Assuming 100 foals a year for his first 3 years all at full stud fee, plus upkeep/insurance costs, Three Chimneys would need $175,000 per foal just to break even.  (That's a common calculation -- with the idea that any real profits come after the third crop.)  I've got to think we're looking at $200,000+.  But... that's assuming a whole lot and believing the price rumors.

eye2go- Lets not forget that horse racing is a "what have you done for me lately" sport. I like your idea, but it wouldnt work out. Champion racehorses are forgotten in minutes, especially when its 2yrs for a first crop to hit the track. Aside that, I believe BigBrown is going to be tested in the Belmont by Casino Drive. If he loses, the sandy dirt track or a troubled trip  will be to blame. If he wins, he's an instant 300,000 in the shed.

I have heard lots about the breeding today vs 50/60 years ago. There are less stats on how many horses had catastrophic breakdowns back then than there are now!

Sir Barton ran through his 4 year old year with really bad feet. He did not produce much as runners and became an Army stallion in Wyoming were he is buried.

Man O' War was retired at three because of the weight he would have to carry and he was beginning to bow a tendon. I guess by all that everyone is saying then he should not have been bred because of the bowing of the tendon. What a loss that would have been.

Curlin is not being pointed to the Breeders Cup (per his owner) but to race in France.

Three Chimneys does not breed any of their stallions to 150+ mares. The books on their stallions are limited to 110 or less. Personally I would like to see books limited to around 75 per stallion. Mainly because of the large numbers of horses that go to slaughter.

The biggest item on horse health would be "zero" tolerance of medications. If your horse needs medication then he/she should not be racing! Very simply any problems would show up long before the horse was in the extreme conditions of racing.

Unfortunately there will always be injuries. Nureyev broke a leg in his own paddock, St. Liam broke his on his way to the paddock, Assault stepped on a nail, or something like that, in his paddock and had a bad hoof the rest of his life but still won the TC, A.P. Jet was permantly injured and pensioned when he and Gold Token (who broke thru a fence and died) got into a fight. Big Brown's quarter cracks may not be a hereditary thing or possibly have to do with conditions of the care of his feet. Does he need to never bred I do not see that.

Big Brown's stud fee will be set to what the market dictates, I think somewhere in the $100,000 area, then would either go up or down depending on the economy and how his offspring perform.

i think it's dissapointing that big bown will retire so early. you see too many great horses retire so early and you aren't able to see their full potential.

Hmmm, interesting question.  I think a lot of breeder's are old fashion and crown or no crown may avoid BB.  His pedigree just isn't that fashionable.  If he had a Storm Cat/ Street Cry/ Ap Indy/Distorted Humor/ Smart Strike type pedigree he could potentially have the highest priced stud fee next year.  I don't think that will happen though and he will be overpriced though.  Of course no one thought Seattle Slew's pedigree was all that fashionable and the rest is history.  Of course, Slew had "beating a TC winner" on his resume, too.  (Here's a curiousity question.  Of all the horses BB has beaten, which has had the best Beyer figure and what was it?  I'm thinking Pyro and it was his 103 BC Juv. figure, but I am likely wrong on this.)

Maybe this will make some farms of the recently retired "stars" of the moment wish they had keep their horses running.  There is a glut of high end unproven sires.  Think about it.  If a horse like Smarty Jones/ Afleet Alex, Bernardini, Street Sense/ Hard Spun/ Any Given Saturday/ Lawyer Ron doesn't produce anything of note and fast their stud fees will fall faster than god knows what.  As the buyers will have some new flavor of the year to sample at the sales.  The longer, better, and more distinguished, a horse's career is the more time they have to prove themselves in the shed.  At least, if BB is a TC winner I doubt he will ever end up in Japan, Turkey, or any state other than Kentucky whether he can produce or not.

I'm routing for Casino Drive. What about this question: What would be the value of Better Than Honour if she produced 3 Belmont Stakes winners? She's only 12 years old & has had 7 foals to date.

THIS COMMENT IS IN RESPONSE TO WHAT BLOGGER KHALSHEK SAID ABOUT HIS 15 START RULE ;

                  STORM CAT 8 STS.

                  DANZIG 4 STS.

              RAISE A NATIVE 4 STS

              MR PROSPECTOR 7 STS.

ANYWAY THOSE FOR EXAMPLE, BUT ITS

IRRELEVANT, LOOK A HORSE CAN EITHER RUN FAST OR HE CANT, ITS REALLY THAT SIMPLE...........

AND AS FAR AS BIG BROWN IF HE WINS THE BELMONT AND BECOMES THE FIRST HORSE IN 30 YEARS TO WIN THE TRIPLE CROWN HE"LL JUST BE TO VALUBLE TO TRAIN & RACE.

The owners came from Wall-Street so money comes first, period.They will never going to risk 50 million dollar  breeding rights contract past the BC. Big Brown/Curlin in Santa Anita BC Classic will be a fantastic show.

He will retire with a $ 175,000 stud fee to start with.

While Big Brown has yet to win the Belmont, I find some of the comments of a possible matchup with Curlin interesting. As a handicapper, I don't think Curlin would be able to catch Brown on a fair track as Curlin stalks the pace and Brown can make the pace. However, the synthetic track at SA may play against both horses, but I would give the edge to Brown as he is turf bred and those usually have success on the synthetics.

Finally, the insurance premiums will be too high to keep Brown in training after the Belmont.

If he loses the Belmont he will be lucky to get $25K to start.

I think that a triple crown win would be very good for the sport, but only if the horse goes on to win more and prove that he is great.  It is a real shame, in my opinion, that so many horses of great talent are retired before they have the opportunity to become truly great racehorses, regardless of whether or not they have injuries.  It is such a waste of talent.  Delaying their retirement for one more year would not put such a huge dent in their stud profits that it shouldn't be done, emphasizing the financial greed of some of the people in this industry.  I was really pleased last year when Curlin's owners decided to continue racing him; I believe that longevity is much more important to the welfare of the sport than any short-lived hero, no matter how good.  I would love to see a Big Brown/Curlin match up, though it seems unlikely to happen.

Big Brown has the potential to win the Triple Crown. There are two other racehorses that they need watch out for. Tomcito, the horse from Peru, his records have proven he was bred for longer distances like Belmont Stakes. He had already experienced racing at 10 or 12 furlongs. Also, there is Casino Drive who is could beat Big Brown in the Belmont Stakes. He ran very well in the Peter Pan Stakes, but he is like Curlin because he only ran two races. I’m disappointed that Big Brown will be retiring this year and it will be nice to see race in the World Dubai Cup in March of 2009. I have watched his previous races; it looks like he has some problems with his footing. He seem like he trips most of the time in races. Overall, he isn’t very sounding with his feet.      

I agree completely with the decision to retire him at the end of his three year old career. Take War Pass, what was he worth last year, Much more than he is now for example. If I had a two year colt that was completely brilliant, and his work at three even gave a sliver of a doubt that he hadent trained on, i think it would be much more commercial to retire him there and then and ship him off to stud. People forget that the racing industry is all about making money, sure it's great to see horses run on and win races as older horses, but most of the ones that do were pretty ordinary earlier in their careers. I think $ 150,000 would be a pretty realistic fee if he were to win the triple crown, although I must admit, If he were mine Id charge more. I often think that a lot of stallions are underpriced when they go to stud and therefore cover a lot of less than well bred dams. I also think that brilliant fillies dont always make good broodmares, unless the have sufficent blacktype realitives other than themselves and that a well bred mare is much more suitable than a badly bred well performed mare when trying to promote young stallions.

While the world is holding their collective breaths until the Belmont Stakes and racing crowns a new Triple Crown Champion,  I feel that it is safe to say that Big Brown will command a very high stud fee.  While a fan favorite in many people's minds,  Smarty Jones was not that fashionably bred himself and still commanded a stud fee of $100,000 , so when you combine a better pedigree with the freakish speed and endurance shown by Big Brown thus far,  I think that it is safe to say that the very least he will bring will be $250,000.  Now if he were to go on and capture the Travers and compete into the fall, possibly even taking the Breeder's Cup, probably at the expense of Curlin,  then I would think that the sky would be the limit as to how high his stud fee could go.

And since we are speculating here,  what happens if one or two of his first crop of runners win grade 1 races or are named champion?  We could be looking at the first $1 million stud fee with this horse.  Incredible talent and the ability to pass on his racing traits certainly will be too much to ask of this runner.   All I can add is GO  BIG  BROWN!!!!!!

Like many others, I think Big Brown will not face a starting gate again after the belmont, no matter what happens--win or lose. If he loses, his connections will not want to risk  his value diminishing any further, and if he wins, it will be the same old line--"He has nothing left to prove." Actually, he does. He has not faced a top class three-year-old colt yet in his career. He beat up on a subpar field in the Florida Derby, and had he not been in the Derby, the race would have been won by the filly, Eight Belles, one of the most brilliant fillies of recent memory. Big Brown's competition in the Preakness was mediocre, with only two graded stakes winners in the field. he was expected to win easily, and he did. His real test should come against older horses. If he were to meet Curlin and beat him decisively, then I will be convinced Big Brown is truly a freak, and not merely the best of a subpar lot. My guess to his stud fee is going to be $150,000-$175,000. If he wins the Triple Crown, it will easily be $200,000-$250,000.

I would be surprised if Brown's fee was anything below $100k. And agreed with most that the Triple Crown would be very good for the sport. And I, too, would love to see Brown against Curlin. They're both monsters. The one concern I guess in the Belmont is Casino Drive, who could also make history if he were to win because of Better Than Honour.

I don't have a problem with retiring an exceptional colt at the age of three, depending on what he's already accomplished and any other circumstances that may affect him. Every horse is unique and continuing to race one horse at the age of four or older, may not necessarily be in the best interest of another. Comments have already been made about both Man o'War and Secretariat in this regard, and their owners had very good reasons for their decisions. And while I'd generally agree that "Greatness is only defined by longevity," that is not always the case. The French racer Sea-Bird raced only eight times in his career, yet had a Timeform rating of 145, highest of any horse in the 20th Century. Having said that, I don't know how sound the horse was, but Sea-Bird died at the very young age of 11.  

In Big Brown's case, perhaps his history of foot problems have played into the connections' decision, and I certainly understand that. I don't really have any strong feelings about his retirement being announced prior to the Preakness. If Big Brown wins the Triple Crown (or even if he doesn't), the only other thing I'd like to see him do before he's sent off to stud, is beat good older horses. But I doubt Curlin would be one of them. In the first place, I don't see their paths crossing, and even if they did, typically, all things being equal, the older horse should beat the younger one.

One of the things I love about Big Brown's pedigree is the inbreeding to Round Table, one of the soundest, most durable horses that ever set foot on a racetrack. Round Table excelled on dirt, was supreme on turf, then went on to an exemplary stud career, and lived to the ripe old age of 33.

I won't speculate on what Big Brown's stud fee would be.

I agree with the comments.It's a shame that money talks.50 years ago the big stables bred and raced their own stock and ran them well into their 4 and 5 year old year. Last Friday you had Jim Squires on the Bloodhorse.com as guest speaker.If you can pass this on to him in some way, I believe a horse he bred broke the track record at Stampede Park for a mile on May17.

Prediction: Big Brown wins the Belmont Stakes.  During the post-race interview the owners announce his retirement and state that he will be heading to Three Chimneys within the next 10 days.  Three Chimneys will then announce his stud fee will be be $150,000.

And for everyone that is talking about Curlin running in the Breeders' Cup Classic forget it.  He doesn't like sythetic track surfaces.

Quick note to Mary about all yjose stallions with less than 15 starts- they all broke down during racig or training.

 I don't think (given the current situation) that we will ever now if BB is a truly great horse. He will most likely be retired after the Belmont and we will never know if he woould bet a less than brilliant four year old.Stud fee first year 200K if he beats Casino Drive.

Missing the days when racing was the Sport of Kings.  Old time owners used to have enough money that racing was a hobby and not industry.  They wouldn't dream of retiring a horse at 2 or 3 when and "striking when the iron is hot" because they had enough money from other sources that stud value didn't matter.  

I'm not typically one of those "good ole days" people.  As a young, female professional, I realize that the world is inmany ways a much better place today than it was 50 years ago.  But when it comes to racing, I'm not so sure.

If anyone wants to know whats wrong with the sport today, just look at the announcment of BB's retirement already. My only question is this; what makes Big Brown more valuable then say, Secretariat, Affirmed, Seattle Slew? All of whom were triple crown winners and all of who raced on, either on other surfaces or in countries. All of whom had stud deals prior to retirement, but still raced on, to showcase their talent and to share that talent with the fans who so dearly love them. To his retirement..BAH HUM BUG to the sport.

Big Brown is tremendously talented. It is unfortuante that the opponents he has faced have been mediocre. This year's crop of three year olds is one of the poorer crops I have seen.

I look forward to seeing him face a higher caliber of competition in the Belmont.

I reacted to Michael Iavarone's premature announcement about the pending news conference about stud plans for BB with revulsion. His announcement struck me as unbridled greed.He is all Wall Street and has no place standing in the company of true horsemen and sportsmen such as Ogden Phipps, Penny Tweedy and others.

His association with Big Brown has taken away my pleasure in watching this grand horse. I have been waiting and waiting for another Triple Crown winner, and saying maybe next year, as have so many others.  A writer on another blog said "I hope BB does not win the TC, I can wait another year".  I emphathize with him, if BB wins the TC it will be like "ashes in my mouth".  This Wall Street approach to racing makes me sick! base.  How sporting is it to announce stud plans and declare the chance  of BB racing beyond 3 is "none" before the running of the Preakness?  It left the impression he woould just as soon not even race BB in the Belmont.  

I love BB's pedigree with the inbreeding to Round Table, Damascus and Northern Dancer but if he is retired immediately after the TC his accomplishments will not be that impressive. The other 11 TC winners had much more impressive careers against much stronger competition. That fact and if he is retired quickly and does not prove his durability would influence me to consider sending send my mare to a stallion like Congaree or hard knocking Hard Spun.

Just my thoughts...Katherine

Whatever one feels about the human side, Big Brown didn't ask for his connections, nor did he decide when he'd retire. All he wants for himself is a full feedtub, fresh clean water, and I'm sure a happy life after racing. Maybe that sounds a little corny, but it's true.

If you've enjoyed watching this horse, I encourage you to keep enjoying him.

So many opinions of what to do with someone else's horse. A better question might be, "What would you do if you owned him?"

Owning Big Brown is a life changing event, unless you happen to have $10 million or more tucked away in your bank account. And even then the horse will change your life.

If I owned him, naturally the Belmont would be next. Then probably the Travers. If he still is doing great then maybe the Jockey Club Gold Cup. If after all of that I would consider the Breeder's Cup but the synthetic track there might just cause me to send him  to Three Chimneys and call it the best, luckiest thing that ever happen to me in horse racing.

The follwing year you would find me at the major sales, buying what I never could have dreamed of affording prior to Big Brown.

Oh, I so agree!! Big Brown is a wonderful horse, but his connections make me want to vomit. I cannot stand that brash, arrogant trainer Rick Dutrow. And his Wall Street yuppie owners make my skin crawl. To have them say that their racing stable is run like an investment portfolio made me ill. They act as if the horses are mere monetary commodities, and not flesh and blood creatures. If a stock value goes down, unload it, if it goes up, cash in on it at the highest dollar amount you can get. I have longed to see another Triple Crown winner, and I hate to see one come along owned by such money-grubbing people. They are not horsemen in any way, shape, or form. They are about as knowledgable about horse racing as they would be about pig racing. They are only in it for the money and the ego boost they are getting. Too bad the next Triple Crown winner could not hail from the Phipps stable, one of the last vestiges of owners who raced for sport and the love of the animal there are left.

BB will stand for $125k. I think TC would get serious pushback from breeders if the number goes much above that, regardless of the belmont outcome. Who in there right mind would pay a $200k fee for an unproven stallion who dominated a very weak crop of 3yr olds?

Wouldn't be ironic if Big Brown turns out to be sterile. His broodmare sire, Nureyev, had fertility problems, his sire was pensioned due to fertility, and another Danzig grandson, George Washington was almost sterile. What would the people who said that he definitely wouldn't race as a four year old do then?

I would hazard a bet the deal included a secret semen test to see if he is virile or not. After the Cigar debacle, I doubt anyone wants $50 million worth of egg on their faces.

Other than Curlin's victory in the world cup, this was the easiest win I've ever seen in a major race!  I think he'll win the triple crown and I think he's a real nice horse so far but I wouldn't call him "great" if he retires after the Belmont.  To be a truly great horse he would have to do more. I think his stud fee will be in the $200-300k range although I believe that to be too much.  On another note: I would like to know how others feel about NBC showing actual footage of Eight Belles breakdown not five minutes into the telecast.  I was heartsick and I felt that was truly in bad taste and I wrote them to say so.  I had not seen that footage and I wish I hadn't!  It really put a damper on my excitement about the race.  In the future maybe they should not be the ones broadcasting races and all who were upset like me should let them hear about it.

Look at the pedigree of Big Brown. Very tightly inbred. No Mr Prospector. He will go well with AP Indy and Mr Prospector types. The problem I see is how may tighly inbred stallions have done well in the shed? Comments welcome

• Scot's reply:  Thanks for the opportunity to plug an old post!  :-)  Back at the beginning of April, I opined about Big Brown's close-up inbreeding pattern being a huge boon for him when he makes it to the breeding shed.  See that post here.  Additionally, a couple of days before the Derby, I edited a fascinating article that compares Big Brown's breeding patterns to those of the great Domino.  Here's my old post, which includes a link to the Domino story.

Win or lose, Big Brown will retire.  It's unfortunate but if I owned a horse worth $50 million I would retire him also.

The days of people owning and racing horses with the attitude, "My horse is better than your horse and we'll settle this on the race track," are long gone!

IF Big Brown wins the Triple Crown, I think his tud fee will be $125k. If BB loses his stud will probably be around 80k. Do I think he's worth this much? No, simply because he isn't spectacularly bred except for his paternal grandsire. BB appears to be bred to be more of a turf miler. Remember Secretariat, Spectacular Bid & Affirmed? The only one of those who came close to being and average stud was Secretariat. Other than the few champions he sired, when you do the math compared to how many mares he was bred to?!?! The thing with setting a stud fee too high is the possibility of shutting out some potentially good broodmares. I remember a time when the owners of a mare wanted to breed to Seattle Slew but the fee was I think $125k at the time, instead the breeder went to Alydar and produced a grade I stakes winning filly whose name right now escapes me. Good luck to BB either way.

Big Brown's stud fee, it's a shame that we are discussing it so early. Seattle Slew and Affirmed both ran as four year olds and even though Spectacular Bid did not win the crown he when on at age four as well. If he wins the Crown my guess is that they will stand him at no less than $350,000 and if he should lose the crown then I say that they stand him for around $150,000. It's a shame that they have already decided not to run him at four it's a loss to horseracing and horseracing fans. We need our heros on the track like Curlin, thank god his owner was good enough to let us watch him race awhile longer. But in general we don't have them anymore. Native Dancer ran as a four year old, Seabiscuit, I know I am mentioning horses from long past but therein lies the problem we are not given the chance anymore to invest our hopes and dreams into the sport of horseracing. I do hope that we have another Triple Crown winner whether it is Big Brown or another but part of loving the prospect of of one is also predicting the possiblity of another horse just coming into his own and maybe beating Big Brown or whomever, that's what makes horseracing so great not how much financially a horse is worth but how much heart he or she is worth. I hope Curlin's owner does not bypass the Breeder's Cup due to the surface, a truly great horse can run anywhere and I think Curlin is just such a horse, sorry Big Brown but I am still waiting to see more brilliance from you if they give you the chance.

I think what is amazing is that horses still sell for such huge sums of money.

Big Brown, Silver Charm, Seattle Slew and countless other great horses sold for less than $100,000.  

What is the point to breed to one of these stallions for such a high amount of money when in reality you have no clue what kind of race horse he or she is going to be?

Meaning, the breeding industry has somehow convinced horse buyers that a few races truly determines how good a stallion the horse will be.  Also, they try to associate that when it comes to selling the sires offspring and horse owners buy into it and pay way too much for what ends up being a $25,000 claimer.

I don't think you can judge how good a horse really is when he only runs against three year olds.  If BB ran against Curlin he would probably have no chance.

If horse buyers thought like me, horses would have to run to age 4 because nobody would breed to a horse that for the most part is not proven to be anything more than good for a few months.  Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex come to mind.

I think Casino Drive is going to kick his behind in the Belmont.  I honestly don't think he can carry it 1.5 miles.  But, either way, his stud fee will be ridiculously high, ~150 to 200k.  He really needs to run at least thru the end of the year, if not next year.

To Sundance: I hope your right. A also agree BB's stud fee will be insanely too high. In regards to the owners of the filly who ultimately was bred to Alydar. It was Seattle Slew's owners who declined and thought the filly wasn't fashionally bred enough.

    I don't know why people aren't calling BB, by a nickname like, Brownie, the brown spot or my favorite... Splotchy! I think Splotchy fits BB the Trainer and the owners. It's certainly better than 'Fupeg' as Fusaichi Pegasus was referred to.

I am going to throw this out there and see if anyone agrees with me. BB is a little different than what we have seen in the most recent past for a number of reasons. Lets just push aside the fact that this colt can run. From any post, off the pace, in the lead, inside, outside. Lets just push aside the fact that he has instant acceleration when needed. Lets focus on his bloodlines and why he was in hot pursuit even before his Preakness win. If you look at BB's bloodlines, there is a whirlwind of inbreeding.  It has been said that this form of inbreeding doesn't usually generate a great runner, but possibly a great sire. When BB showed up and proved his talent exists along with his incredibly interesting pedigree, you have an industry wanting to get him into the breeding shed to see what he can produce. Is it his pedigree they are all after???

Quarter cracks tend to recur, regardless of the skill with which they are repaired. Surely they have tried the supplements we use for "iffy" hooves? And they didn't work, if they were used, which in my mind makes the problem a little more serious than the horse's connections are saying. Both financial considerations and concern for the horse's feet should retire him after the Belmont. Don't believe he would beat Curlin this fall anyway, so it would be stupid to take the chance of injuring the horse. Would I want to breed a mare to a bad-footed horse? Not on your life. Though I wouldn't be surprised at a $250,000 fee to begin with if he wins the Triple Crown. If his first foals have foot trouble as well, and notice I said IF, his stud fee will drop considerably. Another consideration - unless we want the government to take over the industry, we need to begin to avoid breeding to any horse that has the slightest flaw that can lead to a breakdown. And a popped quarter certainly can. Unfortunately we won't know if his get inherited his feet until they get into training. My last horse that had bad feet was worked on by a top farrier for three years. I ended up selling him for 10% of his purchase price to be used as a pleasure horse.

Smarty Jones' stud fee is 100,000. I would guess that Big Brown's would be 350,000...

P.S. I didn't know Storm Cat was taken out of duty???