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I like Defer, a son of Danzig and grandson of Mr. Prospector.  Comes from the female family of Inside Information and Educated Risk.  I think he's going to easily be on top of the New York market.  I just hope he gets the mares he needs to be successful.  What a great score for NY breeders.  

Hardspun.  Pedigree, soundness, performance, conformation....

Mr. Livingston's first crop is on the track now. This group is show speed. Hpoefully they will propel him to the top of the Florida 1st crop list.

Latenth Heat !!!!!!!!!!!! Has it All.

Dynaformer is a sire of sires? Purims Dams family have and sires in It?

• Scot's reply:  Dynaformer hasn't had many good sons standing -- yet.  Don't forget, his first crops weren't from high-end broodmares; it's only recently that he's gotten "stallion-producing" mares.  And he's such an odd physical type that few mares are really right for him.  That's why I think Purim is going to be a big deal -- he's got the physique, the record, the bloodlines.  As for Aspidistra's family producing stallions... I mentioned Judge T C in this direct line.  There's also that pretty-well-known sire Unbridled, whose fourth dam was Aspidistra. And Aspidistra's third dam was Fricassee, widely regarded as one of the best families (1-r) for stallion production.

I must say I look to Hard Spun as a very nice incoming sire, and here is why:

1) He is by Danzig, a sire proven to be at the top of the Thoroughbred breeding industry, and hes also out of a lovely female family if you look at it!

2) The horse is built sturdy but sleek, he has mass to him without being clod hoppery and has correct, attractive and classical conformation with minimal faults.

3) He proved to be able to run with the best of perhaps the recent generation, think about it, would you rather breed to a stallion who was the best at only 1 thing or the stallion who was always second best at EVERYTHING. Versatility is what makes a good stallion because different mares produce different running styles, his ability to cope with different strains will surely pay off

4) Beating the KY Derby Winner and the eventual Horse of The Year in addition to some other extremley talented colts including in a crop that included Curlin, Street Sence, Any Given Saterday and Tiago is impressive on its own.

5) He is a Grade 1 Winner and ALWAYS put it out on the track, he was not a lazy horse, this horse always ran hard on whatever track, whatever state and against whomever showed up, sometimes I believed he had a less then perfect ride which resulted in his defeat more than it should have. For instance he ran and won well in sprints, classic distances, long distance(4th in Belmont after grueling early campaign), dirt and synthetic. This is something to look for with the industry looking to change the surface of racing.

Hard Spun is my hands down choice, and hes at a pretty price!

I totally a agree, and with hail to reason showing up twice in his pedigree he should do well with seattle slew line mares, breeders can also try e dubai mares who has lord at war in his breeding.

My choice for 2008 is Hard Spun. I loved him on the track and he has a great pedigree for a stallion.

On the subject of stallions who should not have been exported, I vote for Quest Star (Broad Brush-Tinaca by Manila). I think American bloodlines can't afford to loose the Domino sire line. Hopefully, Include (Broad Brush-Illeria by Stop the Music) can fill the bill.

I really like After Market - he was a very impressive racehorse and is beautifully bred (Storm Cat - Tranquility Lake by Rahy).  Does anyone know the scoop on him - he was on the workout tab at Saratoga this week, which makes me wonder how his first season went.

Going back to the comments on horses that have been exported, I would agree about Judge TC and add in Stroll (Pulpit - Made for Walking by Prince Sabo).  Luckily you can still get his equally lovely half brother Patrol (Lear Fan) if you are willing to go to Canada.

With our industry becoming sales orentited more everyday adverse to racing how are you judging the next great sire. The sire whose offspring sell well or those who earn thier keep. Pretty is as pretty does. We seem to be moving more into the show horse rather than the race horse. I do agree that Dynaformer will become a desireable sire of sires, however it will take more than one son to bend the thinking of the buying public. As noted Dynaformer is not the pretty boy that is so covetted in the sales ring. Rather corse and bulky however sound and throws stamina. Good Choice.

I like Purim, being out of a Lord At War (ARG) really helps. As far as Dynaformer goes he was under the radar for years and did not get top quality mares so one can not blame him for his early not having sons becoming top sires, Later crops are getting better mares so we will see but I still think Dynaformer is underrated. Purim However Had Grit and I like that in a sire prospect.

I also like Noble Causeway Giant's Causeway - Mimis Golden Girl - Seeking The Gold,  His owners believe in him and will support him.  Invasor (ARG) was something special but will his pedagree Candy Stripes - Quendom - Interprete (ARG) hurt him? Hope not we need that new stuff, he could be what we need. I like him. Lawyer Ron got better and better.  He should be a good sire. I bet Discreet Cat will sire very fast 2 year olds and may be a top two year old sire, but I want a sire that will give me horses that go on at 3 and 4. I Think Corinthian Has A great chance to be a top sire, I loved watching him run. looking forward to seeing his foals.

Don't we live for the 2 year olds!!

I agree Hard Spun Is a good choice. Breeding and race record and guts put him near the top.

Not his fault he did not get a chance to prove how good he was at 4.

Yes I add him to the top of my list

• Scot's reply: Hard Spun seems to be a popular choice, and I'll drink the Kool-Aid, too.  He's got Turkoman as a damsire, he was himself a runner with TRUE CLASS, and I know Darley will support him in his first few years with mares that complement him. At $50,000, though, he's beyond the threshold for most breed-to-race breeders, and becomes a commercial/classic sire.  Nothing wrong with that, but I'm really looking for sub-$30,000 price tags.

sunking may surprise us all. he is avery sound classy horse and    ran  against evert kind of horse. he ran against all the top horses for three straight years.short long classic he showed up for every dance. his dam has produce two pretty classy sons in traitor who was on the triple crown trail as two year old then sunking.

sunking may surprise us all. he is avery sound classy horse and    ran  against evert kind of horse. he ran against all the top horses for three straight years.short long classic he showed up for every dance. his dam has produce two pretty classy sons in traitor who was on the triple crown trail as two year old then sunking.

I like Stormello...he comes from a great sireline, and he had real speed. He was also a very hard trier, who had perhaps an unorthodox owner/trainer who shipped him around across the country, and ran him at distances beyond his best. What does anyone else think?

how about stevie wonderboy... big, fast, smooth fluent stride... many of us forget what he did.. win the breeders cup juvenile after mor ethan 50 days of rest.. he beat first samurai, and henny hughes that day.. and i hear he already is over 130 in number of mares

My goal is SILENT NAME, a royally bred unique SUNDAY SILENCE son by a dam by DANEHILL!!How many blacktype descendants have this 2 monster of worldwide breeding??He prove his class in dirt and turf at 2 to 5 in Europe and the States.probably the first great son of 1 of the best stallion in history at Stud in the States.HARD SPUN and the globetrotter INVASOR are excellents too.

I like Any Given Saturday - real nice conformation and his pedigree is just what I would look for. He ran well last year (just wish he had a win at the 1 1/4 miles though but he did have an "excuse" in his two attempts).  I also like Hard Spun-his pedigree, conformation and performance as well.  Wish we could have seen them both at 4 - too bad Darley retired them!

Where is English Channel in all this?  A hot sire, a killer dam line in Belva (Theatrical), consistent from 2-5, SOUND, laid it all out every time he hit the track if you ignore the Dubai debacle, but we all know that our guys going to Dubai is a crapshoot anyway.  He beat the "best horse in the world" in Dylan Thomas, ran 3 Breeder's Cup Turfs in a row and got better with age, a very very reasonable stud fee... I loved him on the track, and I can't wait to see his first few crops run.  Don't underestimate him.

CACTUS RIDGE--

By Hennessy, and so far, his off spring have handled dirt, poly, and turf. Very versitle. Can show speed, or stretch out to two turns.

For $7,500, he is a steal.

English Channel. He is the 2nd winningest son by Smart Strike who is an excellent producer. His dam's sire, Theatrical (IRE), is also an excellent producer. English Channel is being offered at $25,000. My other choices would be Jazil and Hard Spun. Jazil's pedigree is excellent, as he is by Seeking the Gold and Better than Honor. Better than Honor's offspring have been doing wonderfully: Jazil won the Belmont in 2006, her filly Rags to Riches who won the Belmont the year after, and now Casino Drive is also headed toward the Belmont. Just having three offspring headed to the Belmont in consecutive years is impressive. Jazil is being offered at $12,500. Hard Spun, who've I've seen mentioned quite often, is a more expensive stallion at $50,000. He's by Danzig and a Turkoman mare, and he was a top competitor in an excellent class of 3YOs. He was on the board at the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness S, and the Breeders' Cup Classic.

If I had to pick one stallion by far it would be Hard Spun.  He was a sound and uncomplicated horse.  He was an unbeaten 2 year old, and was impressive as a three year old although he was a late foal (May 10th).  I loved to see him run, was lucky to see him live at the derby, and almost cried when he lost, the gods were with Street Sense that day.  He started his fall campaign at the Haskell , he was not 100% according to his trainer Larry Jones due to a last minute schedule change.  He ran second to a fresher Any Given Saturday while still beating Curlin. After the Haskell is when we finally got to see the new mature Hard Spun.  At the King’s Bishop, he was passed and came back to win.  Then I knew we were in for a ride.  Next, in the Kentucky Cup to beat Street Sense in that effortless way, did not run off, just teased him the whole way but I knew he was not going to let him pass him.  After the race his connections said Street Sense would win next, wrong again, the only one who got by Hard Spun in the Breeder’s Cup was Curlin.  I really wished we got to see Hard Spun as 4 year old because he was still getting better, but I guess we’ll have to settle for his babies.  What makes Hard Spun my choice is his versatility, with him there were no excuses; he was the most versatile of his generation.  He ran on dirt or synthetic, good tracks or sloppy ones, he ran long or short, he could lead or he could settle behind the leaders, whatever you wanted him to do he would do his best.  However, what impresses me the most is that in reality Hard Spun would have probably been unbeatable as a sprinter, but was almost as unbeatable at the classic distances.  Today, such versatility is rare, and the breeders know it because as indicated by Darley, he is the second most popular Darley stallion behind Street Cry. That says a lot when you look at the incredible stallion roster they have in Kentucky.

Scot--I appreciated reading the complimentary opinions of PURIM and the potential for his future success as a stallion. I set my sights on him not long after he broke his maiden and was fortunately able to purchase him to stand at my farm almost a year before his G1 win at Keeneland. DYNAFORMER was the first stallion that I purchased and syndicated back in 1990, and I had been looking for the right son to replace him since moving him to Three Chimneys over a dozen years ago. PURIM is the first son to come along that possessed all of the other qualities that I feel makes a sire. FYI PURIM will cover a full book of 120 mares his first season. This group includes a number of nice stakes winners and stakes producers including the dam of PERFECT DRIFT. I am very appreciative of the support that he received from breeders and anxiously await the arrival of his first foals next year. Thanks again.

For all the reasons that many people have already stated, "Hard Spun".

Great efforts on the track and hope to see it transpire in the breeding pen.

As far as this question goes from an earlier post?

"Would you rather breed to a stallion who was the best at only 1 thing or the stallion who was always second best at EVERYTHING?"

Think of Alydar ... second so many times, but a lovely sire.

Hello

I have just found this blog and have found it very interesting and informative.  I am interested in the breeding aspect and am looking for as much advice as I can.  I have converted over from quarter horses racing a breeding barrel racers.  I have always followed the Thoroughbred and loved them but never really could get financially  involved.  I have read almost every breeding book I can find to make my own assumptions on the best way to go.  My first priority is to pick my mare.  I know you can go to sales and find them but I am hoping to take a road less traveled.  I want to find a diamond in the rough reject that has no produced where greatness has skipped a generation where with the right cross will pass it on to the next generation.  Anyone have an ideas or advice for me?

• Scot's reply:  Welcome to Thoroughbreds!  If you're looking for a hidden talent in a broodmare prospect, you'll find dozens of theories out there.  My best advice is to research Thoroughbred female familes, study Thoroughbred pedigrees / five-cross pedigrees, look at strong / developing broodmare sires.  One trend I've noticed is that often with broodmares, a mare that was not particuarly successful on the track herself, but whose sisters were strong/sound/fast stakes winners, will actually outproduce them.  Good luck -- and keep checking back and take part in the Thoroughbred breeding discussions!

HI MR. ELMERO

MY ADVICE IS IF YOU ARE BEGIN TRY TO FIND ANY BRODDMARE THAT JUST PRODUCE ANY DESCENT AT TRACK AND ALSO NON VERY BAD AND A FLUENT PRODUCER BY YEAR.PEDIGREE CAN BE THE 2ND IMPORTANT FROM YOU IF YOU ARE BEGIN , I REPEAT.MAY BE CAN FIND ANY GOOD BROODMARE , GOOD PRODUCER WITH CHEAP AND MODEST STALLION, IF YOU WANT FOR SHE A BEST STALLION UPGRADING SHE SURE, CAN GET A BETTER FOAL.THE BEST BROODMARES DON'T EVER DOING THE BEST MARES AT TRACK AND WITH THE BEST FAMILIES, BUT TAKE A PROVEN GOOD ONE IS BEST IN MY OPINION.GOOD LUCK.

It also comes down to this, what do you want flashy win early 2 year old but may not have many top class runners beyond that, or nothing much at 2 but better and better as the runners age? Grass, Dirt? ETC?  Not many sires sire it all.

Each of us might have a different idea in mind for picking our sire, Top 2 year old sire, Turf sire, Sprint Sire, Leading Sire. Personlly I pick for the long haul and am willing to let them get beyond 2 to judge the stallion.

I like versatility, that is why I like Dynaformer, and that is why I like Purim, you can go any way with him and it looks like he has a good book of mares. I think he was the best buy at stud for 2008.

I agree No_Class!!! Thats why I asked the question, my opinion is this, I would rather breed to a horse who was second best or at least always showed up but again ALWAYS showed up then a horse who had breif moments of being great, Hard Spun will prove his point soon enough about being versatile! I am sending my mare to him next year, she is a 4 yr old A.P. Indy out of an Unbridled mare who is in the family of Fusaichi Pegasus, I really liked the lines together, hope it'll give us a good one!

And to the moderator:

Yes I agree $50,000 is alot, however, don't forget that EVERYTHING is going up in price, therefore, I'll follow that trend with the stallions haha!

Jazil, what a pedigree, Latent Heat, a beautiful animal and English Channel, a tremendous racehorse, I think these three stallions will have a large impact on future racing

Great! Thanks for the advice!  Do you recomend any readings on the the female families/broodmare theories?  Books or publications?

• Scot's reply:  I'll tell you four of my favorites: 

1. Matriarchs: Great Mares of the 20th Century, by Edward L. Bowen.  Now out of print but easy to find on Amazon or eBay.
2. Inbreeding to Superior Females: Using the Rasmussen Factor to Produce Better Racehorses, by Rommy Faversham and Leon Rasmussen.  Out of print and unfortunately rare/expensive. Beg, borrow, or steal -- this book is worth it.
3. Ellen Parker's Reines de Course Web site. Insights from an expert observer who is passionate about Thoroughbred female families.
4. The publication Owner-Breeder International. "Broodmares of Note" is a regular feature, and you'll also find a Broodmares Preview issue.  (And I happen to know that this publication is about to get even better... more on that soon.)

Where do you all suggest for me to look for my hidden talent broodmare?  Auctions? Private owner? Ads? Track? Cliaming races?

• Scot's reply:  Yes, yes, and yes.  Know what you're looking for (her female family, race record, stakes competitor, sire line, inbreeding pattern, conformation, soundness, etc.).  Do a lot of research.  Do more research.  Buy reports. Factor in what you want to do with the mare.  Breed foals to sell as yearlings?  You'll want commercial bloodlines.  A mare to go to a particular stallion?  Make sure they're compatible, both in conformation and in pedigree.  You'll get a bunch of suggestions (other readers:  that's a challenge!), but here's mine:  find fillies/mares whose siblings have burned up the track but whose own race records were mid-range.  You'll pay less and you'll be getting winning bloodlines.

Thanks Scott!  Yes I do not plan on buying her right away.  I am a research freak so I want to have all my guns loaded when I go to get her.  I am going to reasearch and then decide which bloodlines I am looking for and then decide on the crosses that will produce what I am looking for.  Then go get her based off of my research.  To start I want to breed and sell the yearlings to try and get some income into my stable to help support it.  As most people know the money is in the prospects not the champion racehorses.  Once I can establish this I will start to keep some of my breeding projects and send them to the track.  Thus commercial bloodlines are what I am going to start with.  You have to offer a product consumers are going to want.  I definately like your ideas and will include them into my own breeding theories I will be making for myslef.  Thanks again!

Hard Spun could handle any mare and will be the best stallion of his generation. 50,000 will look like a steal come 2011

I am very happy finally the Unusual Heat finally got a mention as he is improving his mares considerably by Scott at the top of this blog. Can anybody wonder if he was seeing the mares that Giant Causeway is what he would have thrown by now?

I don't have a mare to bred but have many friends that do, but most don't have the big money to invest even in a $25K stud. If I had to advise I would look to a great race record like Invasor with the hope he could pass his talent on. Couger2 flopped so it is a risk.  He is not cheap but if from classic American lines he would be at $100K plus fee. Seattle Slew had good bloodlines but really his sire although well bred never threw anything like him and didn't do that well. He was a great racehorse and a top sire, but he was only a 17K buy because of his breeding.

On a budget I like Sweetsouthernsaint @ $3500 who is improving his mares and sends many a hard knocking racehorses. Repent who never really got to show how good he was on the track is off to a good start considering his mares seen. Good Reward was a trier with a decent race record bred in the purple and has a brother that is doing well if you are looking for a 1st year stallion not in the high $$$$ categories. I also like that he ran for Shug. This is an unanswered question that is rarely talked about in breeding-the people that had them during their racing careers. No good answers is there. Did they or did they not help?

I have thought, maybe without good reason been afraid to breed to certain trainers who suddenly move up their horses dramatically, like St Liam. (I truly hope I am wrong for even wondering out loud and he turns into a great stud) He is bred well enough and maybe he just needed the right person/ trainer to unlock his potential, but I like horses trained by a some that I feel comfortable with-Street Sense would fall into that category without knocking or casting aspersions on the the others which wouldn't be fair.

With that said, no aid legal or not, will make an average horse a superstar, which is lost on some. The talent must be there. I was a mediocre college runner, better than average, but if you gave me performance enhancing drugs, milkshake me, best trainers in the world, I was never going to be Olympic class, the talent must be there to reach the highest levels. It will though possibly make some tough losses in photos and close finishes wins.

Sorry for my last few paragraphs being thrown in the mix, but I think it is a genuine concern that should be addressed. The sad part is it is just unproven suspicions  I have-only time will tell.  

I am guessing a previous post went a little too far with my thoughts and got edited out, probably rightfully so. Here is a less detailed version of the same thoughts. It does bring valid thoughts/questions to light.

I am very happy finally the Unusual Heat finally got a mention as he is improving his mares considerably by Scott at the top of this blog. Does anybody wonder if he was seeing the mares that Giant Causeway is what he would have thrown by now?

I don't have a mare to bred but have many friends that do, but most don't have the big money to invest even in a $25K stud. If I had to advise I would look to a great race record like Invasor with the hope he could pass his talent on. A similar Couger2 (story- not breeding wise) flopped so it is a risk.  He is not cheap, but if from classic American lines he would be at $100K plus fee. Seattle Slew had good bloodlines but really his sire although well bred never threw anything like him and didn't do that well. He was a great racehorse and a top sire, but he was only a 17K buy because of his breeding. I am a firm believer that on the whole race records are important more so than just bloodlines, of course there are exceptions (Viceregal/Vice Regent) but on the whole it seems to bare out. Northern Native was Northern Dancer's full brother but certainly didn't have his talent on track or the breeding shed.

On a budget I like Good Reward was a hard trier with a decent race record. Bred in the purple, and has a brother that is doing well if you are looking for a 1st year stallion not in the high $$$$ categories. I also like that he ran for Shug.

This brings up an unanswered questions that are rarely talked about in breeding-the people that had them during their racing careers. (Also why my original post was "rightly" excluded and not put up for mentioning a certain horse) No good answers is there, but it would influence who I would suggest breed to.

I have thought, maybe without good reason, been afraid to suggest breeding to certain horses when they change outfits and suddenly move up dramatically although the previous trainer might be well respected and established. Maybe some just need the right person/ trainer to unlock their potential.

I am from an era when trainers that  raced a thousand plus horses (very few had that many horses to get near that figure of runners), mainly claimers didn't win at thirty percent clips. (I worked for Franky Merrill Jr. for a few years who was among the top claiming trainers in NA although he never had near that many horses or that high of winning percentage when topping the rankings) Rule of thumb, I like horses trained by a some that I feel comfortable with that have sent numerous horses to the breeding shed that have done well.

Sorry for my last few comments being thrown in the mix, but I think it is a genuine concern that should be addressed.

Others, not quite first year studs but somewhat unnoticed, I like "Sweetsouthernsaint" around for more than a few years at $3500 who is improving his mares and sends many a hard knocking racehorses. "Repent" who never really got to show how good he was on the track is off to a good start considering his mares seen and still is a bargain price.

Another Idea for those picking new studs- although not first year ones.

TALK TO CLOCKERS -mostly regional ones that come from states that have breeding bonuses (NY,TX,LA,CA,ON, et.) and they get to see a great number of studs first year 2yr olds before they race.

As a former clocker I saw the first year 2yr olds of Vice Regent and Silver Deputy and although they didn't command high stud fees, and see top mares, when you saw their get train, I knew they were going to be good sires. On the flip side, one big Canadian outfit had shares in Sham, and another would be Mi Selecto who Stronach gave every chance to, they looked and trained very ordinarily and you knew they weren't going to do well in advance to their prodigy’s failures on the track.

Just a idea to ponder for those looking to take an edge and get in on the ground floor before the price goes way up.

Value Stallions

CATIENUS-$15,000

PUT IT BACK-$7,500

ONE THAT WILL BREAK OUT THIS YEAR(2008/2009) WITH HIS TWO/THREE YEAR OLDS "MAYAKOVSKY"-$3,000.

I DO AGREE WITH SWEETSOUTHERNSAINT, GREAT PROGENY (FILLY & MARES ON TURF)

What about Lawyer Ron?

why hasn't anyone mentioned Pomeroy? he has all the attributes of being a great sire when compared to Distorted Humor & Elusive Quality. He won stakes at 7 furlongs at Saratoga; being out of a Seeking the Gold mare where Buckpasser shows up on both sides of the pedigree, it wouldn't be too farfetched to see him doing very well.

why hasn't anyone mentioned Pomeroy? he has all the attributes of being a great sire when compared to Distorted Humor & Elusive Quality. He won stakes at 7 furlongs at Saratoga; being out of a Seeking the Gold mare where Buckpasser shows up on both sides of the pedigree, it wouldn't be too farfetched to see him doing very well.

Not 1st year but Candy Ride is interesting-he certainly was a good horse with new blood

I am thinking Street Sense

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Hard Spun will be a top sire. Always thought he would have been unbeatable at 1-1/8 mile on turf.

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Brass Hat attempts a comeback. The 8-year-old son of Prized has been compared to the legendary John Henry -- both are grade I winning geldings who put in long careers, after all. But the two share more than that, and we look back to the damsire of two