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Rare Thoroughbred Sire Lines -- Ormonde and Teddy and Damascus

Last month while I was proofreading the "grey pages" at the back of the Stallion Register -- the charts that trace stallions back to the male-line progenitors of the Thoroughbred breed  -- it hit me that the sire line of Damascus, and in fact the larger Teddy sire line, is in danger.  I thought it would be useful to explore the current Teddy bloodlines a little more closely.

(Need a quick overview of modern Thoroughbred sire lines?  I recently posted a brief summary history in another post -- read it here.)

If you look at the Teddy sireline chart (pg. 1366 in the 2009 Stallion Register), you'll see that this is the shortest lineage chart, with the fewest branches, of any of the sire lines in the book.  This has been a fairly concentrated line since Bend Or branched off with sons Bona Vista and Ormonde in the 1880's. 

Ormonde's great-great-grandson Teddy (pedigree) initially established several branches of his own.  The 1983 Stallion Register (which I believe is the largest stallion book ever published... ah, the glorious '80s!) shows Teddy lines through sons Aethelstan (Reliance and Relko branches), Bull Dog (Bull Lea and The Doge), Sir Gallahad III (Fighting Fox, Gallant Fox, and Roman), and Sun Teddy (Sun Again and Sunglow).  In fact, the Sword Dancer line of Sunglow boasted three branches of its own, including a slew of Damascus sons and grandsons. 

In 2009, we're limited to a single viable line of Teddy -- through Damascus -- and even that line looks to be in trouble, with only seven representatives in this year's Stallion Register.  Here's the roster:

  1. Afternoon Deelites (SRO)
  2. Early Flyer (SRO)
  3. Old Topper (SRO)
  4. Say Florida Sandy (SRO)
  5. Skip Away (SRO)
  6. Swiss Yodeler (SRO)
  7. Time Bandit (SRO)

Many thought multiple grade I winner Ogygian (pedigree) would be the savior of the Damascus line, but other than a few regional studs currently representing him, his line appears to have fizzled in tail-male.  And Desert Wine (pedigree) -- a multiple grade I winner who placed in both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness (both gr. I), and who is out of Anne Campbell, making him a half-brother to Menifee -- likewise petered out without leaving a potent heir.

I personally had high hopes for Private Account (pedigree), especially through his sons Corporate Report (grade I-winning, classic-placed millionaire); Personal Flag (multiple grade I-winning millionaire); and Private Terms (another grade I-winning millionaire, this time from the immediate family of the great Ruffian).  All three lines are still viable (Corporate Report, in his 18th year at stud, stands in North Dakota; Personal Flag's iron-horse son Say Florida Sandy stands in New York; and Private Terms' grade I-winning millionaire son Afternoon Deelites is in Louisiana). 

Another Private Account-line stud, Top Account (pedigree), stands in Washington and I sure wish he'd get some more attention.  From the 1-x female family of La Troienne, Top Account actually has a terrific Rasmussen Factor inbreeding to the full sisters Glamour and So Chic.  Top Account is broodmare sire of Imawildandcrazyguy (pedigree), a stakes winner who is graded-placed on both turf and dirt, and who earned $100,000 with his fourth-place finish in the 2007 Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands.  Sadly, this guy has only a handful of 2008 weanlings and yearlings, and hasn't yet produced a son worthy of carrying on the line.

I wrote about Damascus in the recently-released Eclipse Press book Horse Racing's Greatest Rivalries, and am convinced that he was one of the greatest runners ever to hit the track.  His record (21 wins and 10 additional placings from 32 starts at 2, 3, and 4) is amazing, and was accomplished in an era when horses went through harder campaigns than most trainers currently advocate. Damascus blood in today's Thoroughbred breeding is a source of soundness.  It also introduces speed that can be carried for a route -- a quality that is underrepresented in North American breeding today.

Of course, Teddy blood exists in abundance outside of tail-male lines.  It's hard to find a Thoroughbred runner today that doesn't have multiple lines of Teddy through the great horse and his sons as broodmare sires.  In fact, much like Phalaris, Teddy blood is one of the biggest influences on today's Thoroughbred.  The difference is, Phalaris established a major sire line, while Teddy's male line appears to be in desperate need of a new hero.

18 Comments:

IN MY OPINION, THE ONLY WAY TO SHORE UP AND MAINTAIN THIS SIRE LINE IS TO BREED THOSE ON YOUR ROSTER TO ALOT OF DIFFERENT MARES INCLUDING IMPORTS--ESPECIALLY GERMAN IMPORTS.  EXPERIMENT.

REGARDING DAMASCUS(SKIP AWAY), YOU MIGHT SAY THAT I HAD A CLOSE INVOLVEMENT WITH DAMASCUS AND WITH COURT CIRCUIT IN 1966 & '67 DURING SUMMER BREAKS FROM COLLEGE.  

DAMASCUS WAS BRED TO COURT CIRCUIT PRODUCING CHAMPION SPRINTER--HONORABLE MISS-- AND BAILJUMPER WHO SIRED SKIP TRIAL (SKIP AWAY)AND WHO WAS MADAGLIA D'ORO'S BROODMARE SIRE.

IT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE TO LOSE THIS LINE...THERE'S STILL TIME TO SAVE IT.

NEVERKICKYOURDOG 19 Dec 2008 12:39 PM

I was glad when they brought Frisk Me Now down to Puerto Rico. I have a daughter of Menifee and Casanova Star in foal to him right now. He is a millioner and retired sound. I'm trying to keep the Damascus line alive. I was a witness back in 1990 of what Damascus could bring to the table; his grandson Mister Frisky. So far, Frisk Me Now have 3 SW's in Puerto Rico and he is just getting started down here, so I think we are going to have Damascus sire line in Puerto Rico for a while.

Angel L 19 Dec 2008 1:51 PM

SINCE NO ONE ASKED AND SINCE THE SUBJECT IS DAMASCUS, I HAVE TO BABBLE ON:

OTHER THAN THE GERMAN MARES AND ANY OTHER UNTRIED FOREIGN BLOOD, MY OWN POOL OF MARES FROM NORTH AMERICAN SIRES WOULD INCLUDE DAUGHTERS OF(IN ORDER):

1.  BOWMAN'S BAND; 2.  MIZZEN MAST; 3.  CEE'S TIZZY;  4.  INDIAN CHARLIE; 5.  ARCH;  6.  PLEASANT TAP/BEHRENS; 7.  WHO'S YOUR DADDY; 8.  SULTRY SONG; 9.  REPRICED; 10.  PRIME TIMBER;  11.  FULL MANDATE; &12.  EXPRESS TOUR.

FOR 2010, I WOULD ADD CANDY RIDE AND CASTLEDALE.

IT WOULD BE ESPECIALLY MEANINGFUL IF A GALBRAETH-RESPONSIBLE MARE WOULD BE THE DAMASCUS LINE'S LEGACY LINK.  

NEVERKICKYOURDOG 19 Dec 2008 4:20 PM

While history may recall that the Damascus line falls he has been of significance in Australia.  Damascas is the broodmare sire of Secret Savings which was a stakes winner in the US.  Secret Savings has been a successful sire at Emirates Park.  Secret Savings has a couple of sons at Stud including Dash for Cash.  The best runners for secret savings have Northern Dancer and Halo in the dam lines.  

Maybe Secret Savings was a loss.

US breeders should give careful consideration to Australian Sires as there are a couple of lines that will replicate some oustanding lines that are prevelant in the US such as Sierra, Sainfoin and Mumtaz Begum.  These are Century (eg Dash for Cash), Biscay.

Roger 19 Dec 2008 6:51 PM

The only possible way to revive this sire line is through in-breeding. That would require some courage on the part of breeders and acquisition of source animals who are sound and have racing ability.

For example- there are still a few mares left by Damascus- it would worthwhile breeding them to a horse who is physicaly and functionaly a representative of Damascus- unlike Skip Away  though he is not a true physical-Damascus type.

To make this point  a little more emphatic- keep this in mind.

To-day the sire line of the Great Man'O'War is alive due to close in-breeding- War Relic who was in-bred and then In Reality who is also closely in-bred.

Shimatoree 19 Dec 2008 7:18 PM

What about Gilded time?  He is becoming a very useful broodmare sire and I think has potential to still throw a sire

cat 19 Dec 2008 8:25 PM

It’s interesting you are reviewing the Damascus line. The horse I like for 2009 Kentucky Derby is Coronet of a Baron. His dam Time For A Clown is by Damascus son Time For A Change. Damascus won the Woodward by 10L over the legendary Buckpasser and Dr. Fager. In spite of the talent of this exceptional horse, no broodmare from his line has produced a KD winner. In his fourth start and first on turf, Coronet of a Baron was beaten 21/2 lengths by Donativum and Westphalia who were making their sixth and seventh start respedtively on the surface. They also recorded multiple graded wins in these starts, whereas COB has only a maiden victory to his credit. I believe Coronet of a Baron who is a smallish April 27, colt, has a lot of scope for development over the winter and will be a strong representative of the Damascus broodmare line in the spring. It is inconceivable that a talent like Damascus is neither the sire nor grandsire of a broodmare that has produced a KD winner. He is overdue.

m palmer 19 Dec 2008 10:41 PM

You kind of left Gilded Time out. Sire of this years classisist Gayego he stands in Canada.

He may not be in one register but he is in the other.

noogs1 20 Dec 2008 12:14 AM

I have a great grandson of Damascus via Private Account and Life Interest, his register name: Tide Ruler, foaled April 12, 1992, never raced, but is gorgeous, he is being bred to appendix and quarter mares...beatiful foals, not race yet. Have photos, he lives in Ensenada, Mexico...

Roman 20 Dec 2008 4:56 AM

What about Eastern Echo? Seems Swiss Yodeler is doing rather well in California.

Moving these Stallions to stand in different markets around the country if for no more than a season would allow more opportunity to present itself to this line. That however, would be in the hands of the Stallions owners to have the foresight such a move would be to the breed itself in years to come.

It does seem, were it not for the enivironmemt of the commerical sales market this line would possibly stand more of a chance down the road.

It is not simply up to the breeders, it is also up to the buyers to take this line more seriously as it does throw soundness into its progeny.

Trakama 20 Dec 2008 12:56 PM

I was blessed to witness "Time for a Change" (sired by Damascus) win the Flamingo Stakes in 1984 at Hialeah Race Track. "Time for a Change" was a very Handsome Well Built Horse plus he had the "Teddy & Ajax" bloodlines. So, I was shocked when I heard "Gambling Time" (Damsire: Time for a Change) was sent to an auction to be slaughtered a few months ago. He is only 7 years old. I Thank the Lord for "New Vocations Horse Rescue Foundation" that saved "Gambling Time's" life, who's bloodlines include Damascus, Reviewer and Bold Ruler. It breaks my heart to think about how many other horses do not get rescued. God Bless the Horses and Merry Christmas.

Patties Critters 22 Dec 2008 3:33 PM

A good friend has a maiden stud bred 2 X 3 on Damascus and he has suggested trying to breed A.P. Indy or storm cat mares to bring in Nasrullah. My question is can you expect to bring in Nasrullah that far back and have any benefit from it?  Seems to me there would be significant influence from the generations closer up.

  • Scot's reply:  Thanks for the question, Greg.  I see that you've posted a similar comment in the thread on "New Sires of 2009" and I've responded there.
Greg 24 Dec 2008 9:42 AM

There is a lady in Texas who owns a great son of Damascus named Festive.  I'm assuming he is still alive and in good health, he was when I talked to his owner about him last year.  They are not really interested in breeding him anymore but might be talked into it.  Look up Cross-Leiseth Racing.  I believe she might have some yearlings for sale by him.  

  • Scot's reply:  Thanks for pointing out this stallion, Redbean.  He's listed in the Alphabetical Index at the end of the 2009 Blood-Horse Stallion Register, including contact information for Cross-Leiseth Racing in Valley View, Texas.  Nice lines -- a son of Damascus out of a Buckpasser mare, and therefore inbred to Blue Larkspur.  (You don't see too much of that anymore!)
Redbean 01 Jan 2009 8:38 PM

As "noogs" pointed out, Gilded Time has wavered on the edge of long-term influence as a Damascus-line sire.  It's unfortunate that his new home in Canada doesn't do a better job publicizing him -- North American breeders should be tapping this line!  Gilded Time is a nice outcross to many sire lines and has had above-average success with mares from both the Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector lines.  His best match thus far has also been one that's been tried a lot (at least, relative to Gilded Time's overall numbers):  daughters of Gulch (SRO) have produced over 70% winners and an impressive 29% black type winners when crossed with this stallion.

That said... Gayego (profile) is probably going to be the strongest branch of the Gilded Time tree -- and now that he's a Godolphin Stables colt, it's probably not too much of a leap to assume he'll go on to a well-supported stud career.  Can't wait to see his performance in the UAE!

sgillies 03 Jan 2009 9:50 PM

There is another line of Teddy alive in North America.  It's used for sport horse breeding, but it's still Teddy and could be used by race breeders for linebreeding.

I'm talking about Castle Cove, a stallion who stands in Virginia.  He is Teddy through Ortello/Sirte/Clavier/Castle Magic.

  • Scot's reply:  Thanks, Vineyridge!  This is one that probably is unknown to most race breeders.  Here's Castle Cove's pedigree.
vineyridge 16 Feb 2009 9:14 AM

You have overlooked Crusader Sword (Damascus x Copernica).  He is still standing at stud in upstate NY.  His son, Tin Cup Chalice made quite an impression in 2008.

oak orchard 19 Feb 2009 4:28 PM

can i echo the comments of angel l of december Mizzen Mist is a very underated sire with huge potential and from a great Juddmonte family He has had some notable success in the uk from very few runners

dennismc 17 Apr 2009 4:31 PM

We have a grand daughter of damascus her name is desert duet we were thinking about breeding her to keep some of the damascus bloodline going

impalla1960 06 Jun 2009 9:03 PM

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