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Where Did They All Go?

A few weeks ago, I mentioned my disappointment that the U.S. lost Judge T C (pedigree) from our bloodstock choices when he was exported to Saudi Arabia. I'll give credit to Prince Sultan Mohammed Saud al Kabeer and Nofa Equestiran Resort:  they saw something in a stallion that was overlooked in the domestic breeding market, and they snagged a real prize. (Original article announcing export.) 

I liked Forest Camp (pedigree), too -- a son of star broodmare sire Deputy Minister, out of a Princequillo-line mare, from the 19-b female family of the blue hen Bimlette (all of these are great ingredients in a stallion's five-cross pedigree). Forest Camp now covers mares in... South Korea.  South Korea! 

And I've heard breeders lamenting the loss of Menifee (pedigree), who also stands in South Korea despite being one of only a couple of promising sire sons of the tragically short-lived Harlan.  (On the subject, I enjoyed writing about Menifee in a Keeneland magazine article about homebred winners of the Blue Grass Stakes.) 

Stroll (pedigree) is another recent loss for American breeders:  he's by one of A.P. Indy's most promising sons (and A.P. Indy sons are going to become increasingly important as the Lane's End stallion ages).  And even better, that son is Pulpit, who is out of a mare from the amazing Claiborne Farm foundation family 2-f that dates back to Monarchy, a full sister to Round Table.  Stroll also has some intriguing lines on his bottom side, with his Family 1-k dam Maid for Walking descending from Tudor Minstrel with crosses of Hyperion (GB) and Djebel (FR) and Bois Roussel (FR) and Caerleon (GB) in her five-cross pedigree.  Stroll now stands in Italy.

It's a shame to see promising sires heading across the ocean, far away from the reach of most U.S. breeders. Of course, without bloodstock imports and exports, the breed would never have come in to existence -- and never would have made its way to the U.S. shores.  But certain losses are harder to accept than others, and I'm heartbroken over Judge T C. 

Since he's gone, I've started looking at his sons.  Request for Parole (on SRO) looks especially promising. The new-for-2008 grade I-winning stallion raced an impressive 51 times in 7 years, placing eight times in graded company, with earnings over $1.3 million.  His broodmare sire is -- you guessed it! -- Deputy Minister.  Request for Parole stands for the ridiculously-low price of $3,500 at Fox Tale Stud in Pennsylvania.  

I've also identified another Judge T C son who's still running, and who I'd love to see given a chance at stud one day.  Four-year-old False I. D. (pedigree) has scored in a Saratoga allowance race and just took an AOC at Colonial Downs a week ago.  He's got at least some stamina -- he's racing between 8.5 and 10 furlongs -- which is a big plus in my book.  False I.D. is 3 x 4 to Secretariat, with another third-generation cross to Secretariat's full sister Syrian Sea, who is False I.D.'s third dam.  It's neat seeing inbreeding to Somethingroyal, but this is a less usual instance (it is generally seen with Secretariat and Sir Gaylord). It's a long shot unless he suddenly starts scoring some black type, but with bloodlines like this, I would sure like to see False I.D. in the breeding shed a few years down the line.

Okay, so who have I missed?  What stallion do you miss who went abroad to a more appreciative audience?  Let's say within the last 20 years or so.

72 Comments:

I fail to see why you are so high on Judge TC... a mediocre regional sire who was 15.  What am I missing?  As it goes, these are pretty pedestrian sires with little to offer.  Now, Bianconi, there is one that got away.

  • Scot's reply:  Bianconi (pedigree) began to shuttle to Australia as an Ashford Stud stallion, and now stands exclusively at Swettenham Stud.  See his farm page here.
Springboro 20 Jun 2008 3:38 PM

SILVER CHARM AND CHARISMATIC!!!

  • Scot's reply:  Silver Charm (pedigree) and Charismatic (pedigree) were both exported to JBBA / Shizunai Stallion Station in Japan.  Silver Charm previously stood at Three Chimneys Farm, and Charismatic at Lane's End.
sweptclean 20 Jun 2008 3:48 PM

Hi, I have a question for you. When they say a stallion "shuttles" to another country, continent, etc. does that mean they are there permanently? I read that about Street Sense that he shuttled to Austraila. There was another one that just went to South America and for the life of me I can't think of his name. Thanks for any info.

  • Scot's reply:  Shuttling means that the sire is sent to another location for a breeding season, but is still owned or managed by (and is intended to return to) his home farm.  Coolmore is a major player in shuttle sires... they regularly move stallions between farms on several continents.  Shuttling works both ways:  one of my favorites, Honour and Glory, started out shuttling to Argentina.  Now that he's owned by a South American farm, he officially shuttles north to the U.S. for the northern hemisphere breeding season.  Edward Bowen writes more about the advent of shuttling in Legacies of the Turf vol II.
Frank J. 20 Jun 2008 3:48 PM

What about Silver Charm?  and Victory Gallop?  Just think how great American horses would have been if we kept Sunday Silence here....greedy, greedy people are ruining the breed

  • Scot's reply:  No arguments... but look at the immense opportunity Sunday Silence received in Japan.  He's their Northern Dancer or Mr. Prospector -- pretty impressive. ... Victory Gallop (pedigree) recently departed for Turkey after having stood several years at WinStar Farm.
DMH 20 Jun 2008 3:50 PM

This is an international sport.I look forward to the day when Korean breds are challenging our best.Look what Sunday Silence did for Japan.The Globe has gotten smaller,and more exports are inevitable.You should look at exported US stallions as bettering the breed world-wide.Just remember the impact of Nasrullah being imported to the US.

K.Rob 20 Jun 2008 3:53 PM

I'm sorry this has nothing to do with your article.  I just wanted to know if "Praying for Cash" is OK.  He was taken off the track in an ambulance.  If you could e-mail me I would really appreciate it.  By the way nice article.

  • Scot's reply:  Thanks for your comment on my Blood-Horse blog.  I've asked around to see if anyone has heard of Praying for Cash's prognosis but haven't found anyone with an update.  I will keep inquiring and will let you know if I hear any news.
Jackie 20 Jun 2008 4:03 PM

Blog trackback

The Five-Cross Files 20 Jun 2008 4:05 PM

ALL SIRES LISTED BELOW ARE A BIG LOST TO ALL AMERICA BREEDERS.

TIGER RIDGE, SAF

HOLD THAT TIGER, FR.

SUDDEN THUNDER, P.R.

CAME HOME, JAPAN

VOLPONI, ROK

TOMAHAWK, ON

       EDGARD MORALES SR.
       GOLD STAR RACING STABLE, LLC

  • Scot's reply:  Tiger Ridge (pedigree) previously stood at Hartley/De Renzo Thoroughbreds, now at Wilgerbosdrift Stud in South Africa.  (Love that Somethingroyal inbreeding!).  Hold That Tiger (pedigree) started 2008 at Haras de la Haie Neuve in France following his Ashford Stud career and shuttling to Collingrove Stud in Australia.  The unraced Sudden Thunder (pedigree) was tapped for duty by Puerto Rico's Haras Santa Isabel.  Came Home (pedigree) left this year for JBBA Stallion Station in Japan following several years at Lane's End.  Volponi (pedigree) now stands at KRA Jeju Stud Farm in South Korea after starting at Hopewell Farm.  The Seattle Slew son Tomahawk (pedigree) -- who sold for $2.5 million as a yearling and raced mostly abroad -- retired to stud at Park Stud in Ontario.
Edgard Morales Sr. 20 Jun 2008 4:22 PM

I am not sure that "shuttling" is such a great thing.  It keeps stallions in an always highly agitated state and eventually makes them stale, i.e. Alydar who was covering mares constantly.  Give these guys a break!  They are animals, not machines!  And pitty the fools who would not breed to Sunday Silence!  Maybe we should learn a lesson from that!

Kimmie M. 20 Jun 2008 4:28 PM

Boston Harbor.  Best of the Capote branch of the Seattle Slew line.

  • Scot's reply:  Boston Harbor (pedigree) was sent to the JBBA / Shizunai Stallion Station in Japan following the 2001 breeding season.  He stood for Overbrook Farm prior to that.
BHS 20 Jun 2008 4:29 PM

My name is Jenny. I am a voulenteer at a Thoroughbred stallion rescue called Old Friends in Georgetown, Kentucky. I say this because Micheal Blowen and Old Friends brings stallions back from Asia all the time. If you are intersted in bringing a stallion home from another country, or would be intersted in getting involved in anyway with Thoroughbred stallion rescue or with Old Friends, please contact me and I will get you in touch with Mr. Blowen. He is a super fantastic guy and runs a wonderfull organization- a safe haven for Thoroughbred stallions when they are done with their stud duty. Please contact me!!!!

Jenny Keenan

Cell- 847-989-5782

E-mail- chumbawambaracing@yahoo.com

  • Scot's replyOld Friends is a unique program that provides a safe and comfortable home for some of racing's royalty as these horses are pensioned. This is the type of facility that so many of us in the Thoroughbred industry have said we need.
Jennifer Keenan 20 Jun 2008 4:46 PM

Just read your blog and was going to say Silver Charm and Menifee.Loved both but Menifee is by Harlan, he by Storm Cat o/o Country Romance by Halo.I saw Country Romance run as a 2 and 3 year old.I've followed another son since he ran Harlans Holiday.

Wanda 20 Jun 2008 4:49 PM

cheer up america still has ricks natural star and cigar for stallions maybe you could bring war emblem back to!

he haw 20 Jun 2008 4:51 PM

I always thought it was a shame we exported Derby winners- Ferdinand, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Strike the Gold, Sea Hero, Silver Charm, Charismatic, War Emblem...I feel its a little disrespectful.

  • Scot's reply:  Ferdinand (pedigree) stood at Arrow Stud in Japan following his start at Claiborne Farm.  Strike the Gold (pedigree) was purchased from Vinery Stud by the Jockey Club Stud of Turkey.  The same group brought Sea Hero (pedigree) to Turkey (just look at that 5 x 5 Rasmussen Factor to La Troienne... sigh...).  War Emblem (pedigree) started out at Shadai in Japan and it looks like his career is being reinvigorated.
Stephanie 20 Jun 2008 4:53 PM

Probably the dumbest export in recent memory was Forty Niner.  What were they thinking?

  • Scot's reply:  Forty Niner (pedigree) is yet another American export standing at Shizunai.  This old guy (born 1985) started out as a Claiborne Farm homebred.
Ben Dover 20 Jun 2008 4:57 PM

What about Rhythm?  Didn't he go overseas in the early 90's?

  • Scot's reply:  Rhythm (pedigree) shuttled to Cambridge Stud in New Zealand while owned by Ashford / Coolmore.  Later, he shuttled to Baerami Thoroughbreds in Australia when owned by Diamond F Ranch in California.  Rhythm died in 2007.
Deby Campana 20 Jun 2008 5:04 PM

I think one very PROMINATE sire that went to Japan is SUNDAY SILENCE. Think about it I am surprised that no one mentioned him. It seems that there is alot of forgetting about him

Karen

Karen Bauer 20 Jun 2008 5:11 PM

Another thing Scot is that Judge TC is an outcross. I don't know why breeders with good mares want to go back again and again to Storm Cat-Mr P.At some point you need In Reality( Judge TC)Damascus(Skip Away)and of course Great Above(Holy Bull).One day these stallions will be gone and their line with them and then what do you breed to?

Wanda 20 Jun 2008 5:20 PM

Silver Charm, Charismatic, Vicar, Forty Niner, Alysheba...this is horrible, especially in the case of Silver Charm, because he's a direct male-line descendent of Buckpasser. He's the perfect outcross to all this damned Northern Dancer/Mr. Prospector. It sickens me when one of our stallions is sold overseas (particularly when Darley gets their grubby hands on them).

  • Scot's reply:  Vicar (pedigree) stands at KRA Jeju in South Korea after starting at Darby Dan Farm.  Alysheba (pedigree) left Lane's End in early 2000 for Saudi Arabia's Janadriyah Stud Farm.  ...  I agree it's sad to lose these stallions -- but in the case of Darley, look at the bright side:  the program brings both money and enthusiasm to the sport, Darley horses have excellent care and training, and the Darley / Godolphin / UAE influence is helping to expose and eliminate some of the problems we have with drugs in racing. 
Catherine 20 Jun 2008 5:21 PM

Hey Hehaw War Emblem is breeding mares now,read Bloodhorse under breeding news.

Wanda 20 Jun 2008 5:33 PM

I fail to see the tragedy of these mediocre sires going elsewhere.  If they can improve the bloodlines of even lower quality countries, it is for the good of the Thoroughbred and quite often the horse has a better chance of breeding more mares than he ever would have here in the USA.

There are plenty of quality sires here, and many of similar bloodlines to those few exported.  Why shouldn't we share with the rest of the world?

All of these horses were for sale, so if you really wanted to keep them here, save your pennies and buy one ;-)

Lmaris 20 Jun 2008 6:10 PM

We were looking @ MULL OF KINTYRE LAST YEAR (Ashford Stud...Danzig ) & they sold him to groupe In India...he's a fine looking Horse...

Bellwether 20 Jun 2008 6:21 PM

"Better to sell and repent than keep and repent."

--John Madden, a far better horseman than I will ever be

Qatmom 20 Jun 2008 6:55 PM

I always liked Hard Buck, so I was dismayed to see that he had not stood in the States, although it didn't come as a complete surprise.

Isn't Alysheba still alive? Wouldn't it be great to see him back in the US? At Old Friends or KY Horse Park? Not that he is just some attraction to be put on display, but he was/is really one hell of a horse! It's Alysheba. I shouldn't even need to back that up.

jj 20 Jun 2008 8:26 PM

One point everyone seems to be missing - if we need new bloodlines here we can always import them back.  After all, there's nothing stopping farms from importing stallions from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc.  While this hasn't been in vogue lately, I've no doubt the day will come when we'll be a major importer again.  As they say on BSG "all this has happened before, all this will happen again"!

leschulz 20 Jun 2008 8:36 PM

Manila.  We let that one go right when grass racing was peaking in the U.S.  In Turkey now?  That was one clever get.

More recently, Randy Schulhofer's Whitmore's Conn, who won the Bowling Green two times in a row.  I bet the Irish will know what to do with such a stout animal -- apparently there was no market in America for him.  When his first foals start running, somebody just might remember his name...

Lorna Lentini 20 Jun 2008 10:02 PM

I see good stallions standing for low prices and they aren't being used as much as they should. No wonder some are sold elsewhere! Look at Canadian Triple Crown winner Wando, currently at Lane's End. He won stakes at 2,3 and 4 and was stakes-placed at 5. He won from 6 furlongs to 1-1/2 miles on dirt and turf. His temperament is fantastic, very important in this breed because so many ex-racehorses go on to new homes with ordinary folks. Pedigree is full of good stakes winners. He won over $2.5-million and was Horse of the Year in Canada, but his fee is a mere $5,000, which tells me he is not in demand. If people want to keep good stallions here, they have to support them. Better to have fewer mares bred to Mr. High Stud Fee and more to other stallions to strengthen genetic diversity as much as possible. Having 140 foals per year by each of the big guys and 20 or 30 by each of the little guys, who may prove every bit as good over time if given an equal chance, can't be good for the breed.

Terry 20 Jun 2008 10:18 PM

I concur with some posts on other blogs that certain sire lines are being lost.

Nearco et.al. were WONDERFUL crosses for the US in the early '50s but as Shakespeare said..

'A surfeit of the sweetest things, the deepest loathing to the stomach brings'

it's getting a little inbred around here.

oldgraymare 20 Jun 2008 10:43 PM

And, sadly, (and I know he is old) Royal Academy will not be returning from Australia...Wake up all you naysayers: All we have here  are Mr. Prospector lines crossed with Northern Dancer, and the only outcrosses are some Nasrullahs and the Man'O'War line. With all the controversy (and some of it IS warranted) about the inbreeding, it makes sense to give these stallions a little better quality of mares to cover. FuPeg has not done, as a sire what Holy Bull has, but HB still stands for only $10,000. What stupidity by these so-called breeders!

goodwin 20 Jun 2008 11:02 PM

Question on False ID:  Is there a Heart Score on him that anyone knows about?  Did he inherit a large heart from that breeding? If he has a heart score of say 125 on up, it might be worth taking a Double X Factor Mare to him.  Maybe it's time to look for stamina and soundness and breed to it.

Sam Anderer 21 Jun 2008 12:11 AM

I am surprised noone mentioned Sadlers Wells.  What a supersire he became for the Europeans.  I agree that it is a HUGE loss to the breeding game here in the US to send over these stallions.  I felt that Charismatic or Commendable really didn't get much of a chance over here in the US before being shipped off.

Becky C 21 Jun 2008 1:08 AM

Why don't we import stallions and mares with outcross blood like we used to? Wouldn't that provide the hybrid vigor that the current American Thoroughbred needs?

cybertron log 21 Jun 2008 2:07 AM

Strike the Gold was my first Derby pick and I adored him. Old Friends was trying to get him back but I heard it was difficult.  A few years back they were selling certificates of some sort related to owning a piece of him.  Any headway there?

I also love Charismatic.  I have a soft spot for him and I can't really tell how well he's doing in Japan.  One horse I'd be devastated to see sold off is Real Quiet.  I really hope they keep him here. He's not had a real shot until now in PA after his health issues and farm drama.  I'm glad Tiznow took off.  I've never crossed my fingers so tightly for a horse as I did with his first crops.  

Kate 21 Jun 2008 2:33 AM

I wasn't happy to see Red Ransom go, but at least he's in Europe with Darley, so you would expect the care he is receiving to be good.

Amanda B 21 Jun 2008 7:17 AM

When I read at the time of his leaving that Silver Charm had been sent to Japan it tore my heart out.  I immediately sent a letter to Three Chimneys hardly believing they could do such a thing and knowing that Japan ate horse meat.  I received an E-Mail back from them saying that when Silver Charms days of stud was over that Japan would send him back to Three Chimneys to live out his final days.  I surely hope that they were telling the truth in this matter and will await and see if it happens.

lobieb 21 Jun 2008 9:41 AM

Silver Charm, Captain Steve, Yankee Victor

Sherrie 21 Jun 2008 9:49 AM

Although, he failed as a sire in Japan, I thought it telling that the American industry passed on Kotashaan, out of Darshaan.  Stamina galore and a tremendous homebound kick to match  Not precocious enough.

Was it in the middle '80s, we lost Southern Halo for several years, to South America?  He has shuttled back, but, that Halo influence could have helped our industry.

It is one thing to lose so many young sires to foreign lands, but, at least, we do not appear to be losing the real foundations of a breeding program. That being, the quality mares. Scott, thanks for mentioning the great mare lines.  Sires, such as Interco, only produced great runners, when mated with quality mares.  The mares moved them up, ala Meagan's Interco, out of a great Don B mare.

berttheclock 21 Jun 2008 10:34 AM

Still upset over losing Boston Harbor, he's one of my favorites. I have no idea what happened to his sister Cloudburst...

I was crushed when they sold Victory Gallop (Tomorrow he has a great chance at a Queen's Plate winner, though)

Suzanne 21 Jun 2008 11:19 AM

Question for Edgard.Where do you think Ontario is? It's not like Tomahawk is standing in Turkey.In support of other comments on this blog, he's in a regional market close to a world class racetrack with a turf course that is second to none(Woodbine).Do you think he would get more mares at Park Stud than if he was standing in Kentucky? The last time I checked we still had border crossings and it's not a long haul from New York etc.

Wanda 21 Jun 2008 11:29 AM

FRENCH DEPUTY and SUNDAY SILENCE!

Nicole 21 Jun 2008 11:34 AM

I loved Sunday Silence. He was a great racehorse and look at what he has done for Japanese breeders. Why breeders in this country snubbed them is a mystery to me. I also would have loved to see what kind of sire Silver Charm would have been had he been given the chance here. Everything here is Storm Cat, Storm Cat, Storm Cat. Yes, he was a great sire, but his sons seem to get better mares and more chances when they are retired to stallion duty than other young males are. American breeders are far too elitist. So many are afraid to take a chance with a different bloodline. How will we ever know what other possible bloodlines will make great racehorses if we don't give them a reasonable chance?

smarie 21 Jun 2008 12:21 PM

Another thing that troubles me is the way American breeders will flock to young stallions and brood mares. After these horses get a few years on them, they will oftentimes abandon them in favor of the younger horses once again. These older horses are then sold, usually to breeders in other countries. Sometimes, it can take a few crops before a stallion's true potential as a sire begins to show. We seem to only want the newest and shiniest, whereas foreign breeders are more patient. This trend seems to be growing more prevelant all the time.

smarie 21 Jun 2008 12:32 PM

In regards to Mr. MoralesSR comments.  Tomahawk is not lost to US breeders no more than any stallion standing in Kentuckey or NewYork or Florida is to Canadian breeders.  Tomahawk stands at a very good farm called PARK STUD owned by Mike Bryne and is not that far from the border.

Geegees 21 Jun 2008 12:45 PM

To Lobieb: I wondered about that to cause I was a Silver Charm fan. Apparently they have a contract with the Lewises called "Right of first refusal". It means if the Jappanse wish to sell him for whatever reason they must offer him to the Lewises first.I would assume that they would pay to have him shipped back to the US.

Wanda 21 Jun 2008 1:11 PM

Miesque's Approval - Miesque's Son out of Win Approval by With Approval.

His sire, Miesque's Son, is a full brother to Kingmambo and although Miesque's Approval carries Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector lines through his sire, his dam has the Man O'War line top and bottom through Hoist The Flag, Buckpasser and Caro. This is important because it gives Miesque's Approval maternal crosses of Man O'War though War Admiral's two daughters (Busanda and Wavy Navy) in his fourth and fifth generations, and War Relic through Caro, albeit much further back in the pedigree.  Currently, Miesque's Approval is standing in South Africa for a fee of $7,500US.

Laura Ross 21 Jun 2008 1:34 PM

Cybertron, the problem with importing new blood is that there is almost none.  Look a a horse with what at first appears to be obscure breeding, say Horse Chestnut.  He's by Fort Wood, a son of Sadler's Wells from a mare by Col. Pickering.  While that branch is British (and pretty obscure) Horse Chestnut's 2nd dam is by Grey Sovereign, a son of Nasrullah.  He carries still more Nearco on his dams side through his 3rd dam.  HC is actually odd in lack of Northern Dancer influence.

As for the "trendy stallion" issue raised by smarie, most stallion syndicates are investors looking to make money and get out on the investment inside 4 years.  If a horse is a hit at stud, he's a gold mine.  If not, they still make out unless his foals are all ugly and crooked because the buyers at the sales are also looking for the flavor of the month.  Very few breeders today are looking at the long term health of the breed.

Linny 21 Jun 2008 2:20 PM

I think Silver Charm is one of the biggest losses.  This horse had it all. A huge heart, courage, tenacity, soundness.  He was a warrior on the track.  Win or lose he always put up a fight and tried hard. I guess the one thing he didn't have enough of was the SPEED. That's probably why they shipped him out.  Decent bloodlines too.

BlueCollar 21 Jun 2008 2:23 PM

Linny, I was considering the German horses, among other more obscure strains like in South America. All horses today are related to each other, but there must be those out there with fewer "popular" strains and those are the ones I was talking about. Unfortunately we'd have to look at the regional sires and they're none to popular with the commercial market. It's a shame that there aren't many prominent horsemen who breed to race regardless of pedigree.

I wish I was more of an expert in these matters.

cybertron log 21 Jun 2008 4:59 PM

With Approval (CDN Triple Crown winner, World Record @ Belmont on the Turf) is moved late in his life to England.  He had some awesome daughters and Northern Dancer was further back, making a nice cross for ND/Mr.P's.  Why on earth they would move him (from Brookdale), particularly later in life, will always remain a mystery to me.

No_Class 21 Jun 2008 5:29 PM

honour and glory

lasting approval

and the great southern halo!

all tops in argentina

MARC 21 Jun 2008 6:25 PM

i forgot to mention the reason why they became top stallions in argentina:

THE GOT BETTER QUALITY MARES THAN IN THE US !

marc 21 Jun 2008 6:28 PM

What most of you are missing is that we are in the show horse business, not preformance horese. The leading farms in Kenyucky are interested in first yesr sires and SELLING yearlings and seasons before the foals have an oppurtunity to show any "run". When is the last time you saw a stallion whose sales average was less than his stud fee last long enough in Kentucky to prove his babies could run? Selling not racing has contributied to our unsound racehorse today; if the yearling does not look like a 3yo in September then the stallion goes on the auction block, Sunday Silence, Forty Niner, and so on.

Frank 21 Jun 2008 10:20 PM

Red Ransom...

Mighty Mouse 22 Jun 2008 10:56 AM

Ah, yes, the mares of South America - One of them, Luna del Miel, by Con Brio (Ribot) was bred to General (Fr), by Brigadier Gerard (FR)- Produced Lord at War.

Kudos to the Perkins family for keeping Lord at War in the US, and now his progeny.  Is this what it takes, owner breeders keeping their runners and breeding them and not auctioning them off?

berttheclock 22 Jun 2008 10:56 AM

Yes Linny, you are right. So many view horses only as investements. No wonder they talk about "culling," the way they do. These are living, breathing, beautiful animals to most of us, but to some they are just dollar signs.

smarie 22 Jun 2008 12:50 PM

One of the few Storm Cats I hated to see leave: Exploit.  His dam's produced more than her share of nice, breed to race sires.  He'd've been better off in FL or NY than KY.

Sam 22 Jun 2008 6:21 PM

Does anyone know if Alysheba will be sent back here if he is retired from the breeding shed. I just viewed the video on the Blood Horse video site and it brought back so many memories of how great he was.  I hope he can return here.

Rggc 22 Jun 2008 6:33 PM

Marc,

I don't know if  Argentina has better better quality mares, but I suspect the out-cross factor is producing a superior horse. Our stallions are a total out-cross for their mares and vice versa.

I expect Seattle Fitz(arg) and Candy Ride (arg) to become fantastic sires here based on the compatibility of the bloodlines. I think it's a good thing for us to export sires who normally wouldn't be well supported. On the other hand, we import new blood from other countries as well.

The importing/exporting can only help diversify the overwhelming Northern Dancer/Mr. Prospector inbreeding.

Laura Ross 23 Jun 2008 8:29 AM

I have an unraced Judge TC son that I will stand at stud. We are looking to breed warmblood mares but he is availble...

  • Scot's reply:  Hmmm... you're hitting me in a weak spot.  Care to share your stallion's name/pedigree?
Pineridge 23 Jun 2008 1:21 PM

Nobody mentioned Victory Gallop going to Turkey. I will miss following his offspring. Very sound and tough horse. Seems we are lacking in that type here in the US. We need to hang onto guys like that. Go Anak Nakal!

Jed Dog 24 Jun 2008 10:01 AM

His name is Dazzling Judge, he is out of an Allen's Prospect mare.

pineridge 24 Jun 2008 10:12 AM

I too liked Judge TC -he was sending tough hard knockers if not special horses-one must put in to perspective the mares he was seeing.

On discussions on the Blood Horse home page months ago I lamented on the fact Menifee was sold and shipped abroad. He was off to a reasonable start. Again as above it wasn't like he was seeing Blue Hens. With a better timed ride he might have been a Derby winner.

My question would be--what are they paying for these studs? It maybe was a fluke that Our Emblem threw a couple good ones for $3500 stud fee then nothing for $35,000-he was sold for $350,000 then bought again for mucho dineros after War and Private Emblems ran in the Derby.

Did they get top dollars for the two above?

Since Victory Gallop was mentioned another question but off topic-Cryptoclearance --how does a stud start so very strongly then fall of the map-He and Slew O' Gold, what happens? They must have seen great mares after such good starts-but they became mediocre to poor studs after their early great seasons. How does that happen?

Marc W 24 Jun 2008 11:16 AM

I think that it is a shame that we are letting our stallions go to other countries before they have even had the chance to prove themselves, look at Menifee he was shipped to Korea of all places and now his offspring here have consistently placed him on the top sires lists. It's a shame too that when a stallion who had been a great racehorse does not duplicate himself he is then sold off to another country, look at Alysheba he was considered the "people's horse" and did so much for racing here but did not do as well as everyone thought he would at stud and was sold to some Prince in Saudi Arabia. If he disappointed people at stud then they should have at least let him have his dignity and could have been given to the Kentucky Horse Park where those people who had admired this son of Alydar on the track could have visited him and shown their appreciation for what he had accomplished. Why do we allow this to happen. The racing fans must at least find a way to show their objections to how these horses are treated. Blogging is fine but it needs to be something that is more vocal and to the point. If anyone has an idea or knows of anything that now exists please let me know.

Julie L. 25 Jun 2008 1:42 PM

I'll second Manila...

Swale Fan 25 Jun 2008 4:34 PM

You all know what happened to Ferdinand don't you? Sad!

Marc W 26 Jun 2008 1:28 PM

How true Marc W and he was one who gave us many a thrilling race when he ran against Alysheba, I was there at Hollywood Park for the 1987 Breeder's Cup and the excitement I felt when the starting gate for the Classic was placed right in front of me as I stood at the rail and drew in my breath as I saw Ferdinand with Bill Shoemaker up standing there and then suddenly right before me was Alysheba with Chris McCarron in the saddle, what an exciting race, seeing Alysheba on the turn for the homestretch putting in that great run of his with his saddlecloth flying and Ferdinand giving it his all to hang in and barely beat my beloved Alysheba by a nose. People need to remember what every racehorse gives us...memories of great races and great hearts.

Julie L. 26 Jun 2008 6:13 PM

Ferdinand --for those who don't ended up going to a meat factory for dog food.

Marc W 27 Jun 2008 10:18 AM

Isn't it almost better that these stallions ARE being bred in other countries, instead of being used as sporthorse or warmblood producers in someone's backyard here?  No offense to sporthorse or warmblood breeders is intended, please keep in mind that we are talking about preservation of the Thoroughbred, in the purpose of racing.  As for Request For Parole, knowing him personally, I wish him many nice books of mares at stud.  His picture in the register does him no justice.

Gin 30 Jun 2008 3:19 AM

Some Sires Who Were Exported Who Could Have Made an Impact

SILVER CHARM-Japan

CHARISMATIC-Japan

JUDGE T C-South Africa

VICTORY GALLOP-Turkey

American Stars Who Never Stood Stud in America Who Could of Had an Impact

MIESQUE'S APPROVAL-South Africa

WAR EMBLEM-Japan

Huh 01 Jul 2008 5:13 PM

The following stallions were exported from the US, but are or will be making a great contribution to the bloodlines in Puerto Rico:

Bargello

Billions

Casanova Star

Frisk Me Now

Just Typical

Ordway

Slewlessnseattle

Sudden Thunder

Tamhid

Angel L. 02 Jul 2008 9:17 AM

We just lost another one, Roar who stood in California has been purchased to stand in another country. Good luck Roar.

Julie L. 02 Jul 2008 2:22 PM

False I.D. is now being reported as a gelding.  Looks like I ought to cross him off my list!

sgillies 25 Jul 2008 4:26 PM

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