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Is This a Broodmare -- Howl At the Moon

Flipping through the pages of this week's issue of The Blood-Horse, I did my usual cursory glance at the Horses For Sale section of the classified ads.  One of the entries screamed out "Lovely Young Dynaformer Mare..." and I decided to dig a little deeper.

Horse for sale ad - Howl at the Moon

Dynaformer (SRO) is one of those stallions who has been under-appreciated for much of his career, but his numbers are undeniable.  I've mentioned him before as a potential sire of sires, but his real influence looks to be through his daughters. Over the past several years he's worked his way up the list of leading broodmare sires and is currently ranked #12 on the Leading Broodmare Sires of 2008, Dynaformer breaks into this position despite having fewer producing daughters and fewer runners than 22 of the other Top 25 broodmare sires (including all 11 ranked above him).

Back to the broodmare for sale.... I exchanged emails with the seller, whose Web site included a nice short write-up about the mare and identified the rest of her pedigree.  The catalog page is a strong one -- this mare is worth some research.

Howl At the Moon (pedigree) is a 7-year-old daughter of the Northern Dancer mare Northabout.  That mare, in turn, descends from the Buckpasser mare Alluvial, who is dam of Belmont Stakes (gr. I) winner Coastal and multi grade I-winning multi-millionaire Slew o'Gold.  Another couple of jumps back in this female family 9-f line brings us to Bourtai, the dam of a couple of Broodmares of the Year.  This is the family of Belmont winners Creme Fraiche and Bet Twice, and Belmont/Kentucky Derby (gr. I) winner Bold Forbes.

It would be hard to argue against this mare based on her pedigree.

Her race record is nothing extraordinary.  The Claiborne Farm-bred Howl At the Moon did at least beat the averages -- three wins and an additional place from 10 starts, for earnings of $42,560. She appears to have matured rather late and evidently preferred a bit of distance -- both traits to be expected from a Dynaformer.

Howl At the Moon has two young foals. A 2007 Proud Citizen (SRO) daughter sold for $20,000 at last year's Keeneland November breeding stock sale and is hip #2832 at the Keeneland September sale starting next week.  Another filly came early this year, this time by Olmodavor (SRO). For 2009, Howl At the Moon is in foal to the royally-bred Kitalpha (a full brother to the spectacular sire KingmambHowl At the Moon - Thoroughbred broodmare for saleo (SRO)), who arrived at War Horse Place in Lexington, Ky., in 2008 for his first U.S. stud season.

 The $75,000 price tag reflects the broodmare's good looks and excellent pedigree.  Once the price of a mare hits $40,000 or so, I am generally surprised to see her offered outside of one of the big fall bloodstock sales.  In this case, I'm guessing the mare is priced appropriately and probably is no more than what she would be expected to bring during the Keeneland November sale, for example.  Anything over $50,000 is a question mark for a non-black type mare, but she comes with a million-dollar pedigree to make up for the white type.

I'd like to see Howl At the Moon tried with a Deputy Minister-line sire.  Too bad Silver Deputy was pensioned today; Dynaformer has done particularly well with him (7 winners from 7 foals, including 3 black-type winners, with earnings over $2.2 million).

And now as always, I turn it over to you, the reader.  Would you want this mare as part of your herd?  What stallion out there is just perfect for her?

32 Comments:

To me Howl at the Moon is a broodmare and for her I'd go with either Badge of Silver (son of Silver Deputy) or the more proven Posse (also a son of Silver Deputy and sire of Kodiak Kowboy).

Huh 05 Sep 2008 6:34 PM

Wow she's built like a brick ****house. I'm not sure who I'd breed her to but I would find a more refined type.

Wanda 05 Sep 2008 6:49 PM

I agree, too bad Silver Deputy is not an option.  I have been really high on Dehere lately.  Take a look at his current stud fee against his average yearling price.  It is very attractive. I know that those number might be skewed a little from his impressive sale and racetrack performance abroad, but there are pleanty of sires with a better AEI that are barely making a profit at the sales.  Also, he is tuning out to be a very good broodmare sire as are many stallions with Secretariat as their broodmare sire.  His AEI as a broodmare sire is up there with A.P.Indy and Storm Cat.  I hope that crafty breeders will support his re-entry into the NA market with some good mares and not take a chance on a unproven commodity.  I think his stud fee reflects value in that respect.  My vote is to bred her to Dehere, another outstanding Deputy Minister line stallion. Thank you.

mpenfield 05 Sep 2008 7:05 PM

Blog trackback from OneFastHorse.com

The Five-Cross Files 05 Sep 2008 7:09 PM

Personally, I think this mare is WAY overpriced....  for one thing, her weanling brought $20,000 last year when the weanling filly average for Proud Citizen was $48,000 so she sold well below average.  Secondly, she's in foal to a relatively unknown stallion for the Lexington area. She's young with a lot of pedigree behind her, but to get the big money they need to be breeding her to the big stallions...  I think she's a $10-20,000 range mare.  Just my opinion of course

catnip lane 05 Sep 2008 8:11 PM

This mare has all the greats in her Northern Dancer Native Dancer Man o'War  mumtaz mahal  wow  what more can you ask for

pat 05 Sep 2008 9:54 PM

She seems a tad overpriced to me, but she sure is a looker.  I find the covering stallion a bit odd.  Sure Kitalpha is well bred but if you plan on selling a mare in foal, you usually breed her to something commercial or at least pretty well known.

If she was expecting a foal from a proven or popular sire and/or had a foal that had already sold for a decent price, she might be worth the asking price as her pedigree is lovely.

Any way to research the Proud Citizen baby that sold for so far below the average?

Linny 05 Sep 2008 11:55 PM

I have no problem going fairy close with Northern dancer, so, I would make a lower offer (she's really beautiful from the picture) and I would find a Danzig son from a Roberto mare, because I love that cross...I would not do it for a sale, I would do it because I would want to keep the foal.

da3hoss 06 Sep 2008 7:40 AM

Can you explain "black type" and "white type" please?

  • Scot's reply:  Most Thoroughbred sale catalog pages use standard formatting to visually represent certain achievements.  A horse that finished "in the money" in a designated stakes race (as identified by a standards committee... most stakes races are also "black type" races) will be indicated on the page in bold type, also known as black type.  Horses that have won a black type race are indicated in LARGE BOLD TYPE.  Bold type tends to stand out on the page and, in general, the more black type on the page, the better-bred the subject horse. 

    So-called "white type" just indicates the opposite -- the given horse has not won a designated stakes.  In the same spirit, a "white-type stakes" is one that doesn't qualify for bold type within a catalog page... usually because of a low purse or because the race has too many restrictions.
newsline2 06 Sep 2008 8:27 AM

Possibly the lack of interest in her foals has to do with the previous crosses to newer unproven sires.

With her bloodline, I will try the following:

Giant's Causeway

Rahy

A.P. Indy

Smart Strike

Seeking The Gold

Kingmambo

Awesome Again

New Sires worth trying:

Lion Heart

Silent Name

Secretariat's Secretary 06 Sep 2008 11:57 AM

She certainly is a nice looking Mare and you can't argue with her pedigree!  As you stated, the asking price seems to match better with the pedigree than it does with the race record. Her sisters have produced some very good runners, and I think that she will too!  I would breed her to Lemon Drop Kid.  He has a fantastic record with 9-F Mares, producing the likes of Lemon Drop Mom, Kiss the Kid, Malakoff,and Lemon Kiss!  You would be doubling up on Northern Dancer and Buckpasser....not a bad thing to do.  Dynaformer is a proven producer of G1 Route Dirt horses, as well as Turf runners.  Lemon Drop Kid seems to produce the same sort of versatile runners able to handle dirt and turf.  My guess is you would end up with a great turf horse, who could hold his own if the weather pushed you onto the main track!

Davisondad 06 Sep 2008 12:58 PM

This mare is screaming for Quiet American.  Either him or a son of A.P. Indy.  I love the fact that she is outcrossed for 5 generations.  This mare can be bred to almost any sire line and should produce for you.  I would not under any circumstances breed her to any sprint sire. Choose a sire that won at 1 mile or longer.  She has alot of stamina in her pedigree and should throw the same.  You might even cross her with some Damascus blood or try her with some good German lines.  I know most everyone says she is not worth $50,000, but disagree.  She has the looks and bloodlines.  Its up to you to unlock her genetic punch.  Thanks

Robert 06 Sep 2008 1:25 PM

OK...

I'll just say that $75,000 is a con and I think the seller is just trying to recover the cost of his breeding mistakes in her advertised price.

To me...$25,000 tops considering the current sales market is on a downswing, her race record isn't much and all 3 of the sires that she's been bred to are too new and unproven.   Which means that they were just hoping that they could've struck lightning and then profited on the feeding frenzy that would have followed.

As for who to breed her to in the future I'd have to go with "Posse".   He's still a little too new for my liking (preferring mostly proven sires), but because of the proven Silver Deputy/Dynaformer/Rahy nicks it's kind of hard not to.

Chris 06 Sep 2008 6:25 PM

I agree that the $75,000 price tag is high.  However this mare opens up endless possibilities to breed to top class sires.  

Call me biased but breeding her to Tiznow could be better than advertised.  It only rates as a C for an enick but there are three fantastic horses out of Tiznow that have been triple crossed with Northern Dancer (broodmare sires):  Tizdejavu (Dixie Brass), 2-yo Champion filly Folklore (Storm Cat), and Tiz Wonderful (Hennessy) who only raced 5 times but won a G2, G3 and placed in a stakes race off a 6 month layoff before suffering a career ending injury.

I almost forgot, Colonel John (Turkoman) is also a 3x cross of Norther Dancer. This mare is bred for distance and the Tiznow's that succeed big are two turn horses.

I will concede however that the Deputy Minister line seems to be the best cross available.

TJluvsTIZ'S 06 Sep 2008 8:30 PM

A beautiful mare with the breeding to match.  I'd like to see her bred to Touch Gold, Deputy Minister out of a daughter  Buckpasser sire of her maternal grand-dam.

JMcM 06 Sep 2008 8:35 PM

On my first post saying I would breed her to Touch Gold, I forgot to mention that Sharp Susan is by him and out of a Dynaformer mare

JMcM 06 Sep 2008 9:27 PM

Louis Quatorze...he's going to throw a super freak before he finished reproduce n...LONG LIVE LOUIS!!!...  

Bellwether 07 Sep 2008 5:36 AM

The mare has a very strong body, but didn nobody else notice she has NO NECK!!!  Which is very odd for a Dynaformer.  THere is no way she's worth $75,000 in foal to that stallion. The breeder will have a hard time getting anything for it.  I'd say she's worth $25,000 - $30,000, but she may bring more based on her pedigree.  But find a stallion that throws horses with a nice long neck like Unbridled's Song

LCM 07 Sep 2008 3:08 PM

JMcM:

Good catch on Touch Gold.  

Love Touch Gold and should've caught that myself.

Chris 07 Sep 2008 4:56 PM

Hailing from the UK, Im going to be bold and suggest a UK based stallion.  Of course, shipping a horse over here etc etc, Im not going into that but for arguments sake I would take her to a more refined stallion than Giants Causeway, as I see someone suggested earlier.  Shes a bulky mare [of course she has had two babies, but look at that neck!] and so would suggest something like One Cool Cat whose first crop is doing relatively well in the UK plus I like sons of Storm Cat, who has also done well with the dynaformer line.  One Cool Cat is also a beautiful animal, leggy.

UrbanSea86 07 Sep 2008 6:53 PM

Too bad "Rahy's Attorney" is a gelding or I would've suggested him also.

Chris 07 Sep 2008 9:27 PM

I agree 100% that this mare has a "million dollar" bloodline - as stated her first foal will be sold in book four as hip #2832 she is nice size filly that is very correct, has a large range of motion, and has scoped & x-rayed perfectly, but more than that she is very closely aligned with "Proud Spell's" Northern Dancer line breeding....who knows maybe "Proud Citizens" next "Oaks" princess.

TouchStone Farms 07 Sep 2008 10:05 PM

This mare has a kick ass pedigree and the stallion, Kitalpha, full to Kingmambo, that she's in foal to, won't be an unknown for long. Should be a good cross. Take a look at Ocean Silk. Very similar. I think she's definitely worth the $$ and I'd snap her up if I could.

Marianne 08 Sep 2008 1:14 AM

Didn't think I'd be inclined to agree with LCM but she/he is right. This mare looks like a QH in body, but no neck and her head is just off with the body type. Every time I look at the picture I think how odd her head looks on the body. A real famous trainer said once that it's the balance of the horse, an opinion I agreed with. This mare is out of balance, no neck, petite head. The same guy also said the jocks stick shouldn't be longer than the neck if you lay it along the top and that would definitely happen with this mare. I'd pass, pedigree doesn't always guarantee success. In the current market, overpriced and if she was in the Nov sale would sell for a lot less or RNA. Just my opinion of course, although I've seen a few hundred broodmares up close and personal in my long life.

tbHORSERACINGrules 08 Sep 2008 10:47 AM

Any weanlings purchased are placed into training as yearlings, when this mares yearling now named "Berkley Road" went to auction last November I was authorized to spend up to 60,000 to secure her. Her balance and conformation is excellent as is her "True Nicks A++ rating with a 6.9 variant. As fate would have it the day before the sale I was in a car wreck in Cincinnati and missed what turned out to be a superb buying opportunity that arose from her poor sales position. If this mare had been re-bred (as she should have been) to "Proud Citizen" or a son of "Deputy Minister" instead of the Sires they chose the farm would have bought her at a higher figure than they are currently asking!

DR. B. 08 Sep 2008 5:27 PM

DR. B, Then that must be a bad picture. I looked at her and she looks like a QH. I did side by photo comparisons and she looks nothing like a the mares I compared her to. Now me, I like that body type, her neck must be longer than it looks and if it isn't then she isn't well balanced as a TB race horse. I'll take the word of a world renown trainer and agent what makes one a potential superstar race horse. 60g's for that kind of breeding? Seems like it would go for a little more. Personally I know what they do with weanlings, yearlings two year olds etc, I've had enough of them.

tbHORSERACINGrules 08 Sep 2008 8:08 PM

IMO, the mare looks big boned with a heavy but not short neck.  She could easily pass for a warmblood but she doesn't like QH to me at all.

I'd be worried that at $75k, the foal she's carrying would be a liablity.  I wouldn't be sure I'd want the expense of foaling and raising only to get it to the sales and have folks say "who?"  

She looks like a nice mare, certainly well bred, but she' need a stallion to refine her a bit.

Linny 08 Sep 2008 9:41 PM

Linny,

That hip, chest and neck, look at a QH stallion of an equal age, even a few of the mares. I pulled out some of my win pictures from back when we were running them, the QH's same body type, the TB's no way. Not even some of the outside mares who we've had here. Several horsemen on here made comments about the muscular status of the mare. She needs a lot of refinement in my opinion but like I said I may have looked at a few hundred too many and my eyes may be failing, after 80++ years.

tbHORSERACINGrules 09 Sep 2008 8:37 AM

tbHORSERACINGrules: I'm with you on that. Short back, massive shoulder, big hip and her neck comes out of her shoulder way to low.Some sires that have been discussed are of similar body type. I wouldn't go there.You should find a stallion that will commplement her ie, length etc.I wouldn't worry to much about a A nick on paper cause the mare can't read!

Wanda 09 Sep 2008 11:02 AM

I noticed that the mare's yearling brought $110,000 at Keeneland. That makes her much more attractive.  I still feel she would be worth much more bred to Posse or any stallion more well known.  The $75,000 price tag still seems a bit high considering the foal she's carrying, but she's shown she can produce income at the yearling sale.

catnip lane 18 Sep 2008 7:55 AM

I'd have to agree with the QH comments... She's VERY stout and compact, which makes her look neck-less... And, I'd peg her as a sprinter upon first glance; but overall, I've always loved Dynaformer as a BM sire.

I'd agree that I think she's slightly overpriced.  Alluvial is an AMAZING mare to have as a grand-dam, but I feel like they're capitalizing a little TOO much on that... Especially with LQ as the 'baby daddy'. If he was a superstar stallion, perhaps I'd reconsider... but, alas.  

Go ahead and laugh at me; I started thinking about Slew O'Gold and I started wishing Silverbulletday's '02 foal by A.P. Indy wasn't a gelding..;) Tice? Is that his name?  

Other than the tongue in cheek... You all beat me to the good ones. Giant's Causeway would be a great match on the page, given how well he's been selling too. My favorite choice would have to be Touch Gold; he's lovely, and would compliment her nicely. And, I'd concur on Posse too.

Pedigree Addict 19 Sep 2008 3:44 PM

Scot Gillies in my opinion has proven article after article to be at the forefront of pedigree analysis this mare is just another example of his excellent breeding acumen, and I will be following his articles very closely from here on in!

  • Scot's reply:  Thanks for the flattery -- I need to make sure my editor-in-chief sees this!
TouchStone Farms 27 Sep 2008 9:59 AM

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