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Can You Pick the Better Broodmare?

I thought it would be fun to look at two mares and have everyone vote for the "better broodmare."  To keep it fair, I selected two mares recently offered for sale at about the same price and both located in Kentucky.  I guess I was inspired by Alan Porter's recent comments about Runaway Groom -- both of these mares have connections to Vinery's son of Blushing Groom (FR).  (I've always liked Runaway Groom because his damsire line is that of Better Self -- sire of blue hen Aspidistra -- who descends from the Black Toney branch of Peter Pan and Domino.)


First up is Barb's Promise (pedigree). This 2000 mare by the Damascus-line sire Skip Trial ran 29 times from 2 to 5, though it took her until the final race of her career to break her maiden. Durability shouldn't be a concern with Barb's Promise: her sire ran 38 times for $1.8 million in earnings, and her dam went to the post 48 times and retired with over $300,000 in winnings.  Class isn't an issue here either.  Skip Trial was a grade I winner at 3, 4, and 5, while Skylak was a six-time stakes winner who earned black type every year from 2 to 5.

Barb's Promise's dam, Skylak, seems to have preferred distances under a mile, although she fared admirably well in her eight-furlong-plus efforts. On the flip side, Skip Trial never ran less than 8 1/2 furlongs after his juvenile campaign and seemed to want a route all along. Unfortunately, Barb's Promise didn't get much opportunity at running around two turns, but it was clear in the sprints that she could not compete with any but lower-level runners.

Barb's Promise descends from the 9-c Thoroughbred female family of Miss Larksfly, who is also dam of Skylak's great-grandsire T.V. Lark. Skip Trial didn't introduce any further inbreeding but did add a couple of additional strains of Plucky Liege, to whom Skylak was already line-bred.

Foals in 2006 (a colt by With Approval) and 2007 (a filly by Runaway Groom) would seem to have been bred with racing (rather than sale) in mind, as both stallion choices were older, solid horses but clearly not commercially exciting studs.  (It should be noted that Barb's Promise has a With Approval half-brother that was a grade III-winning earner of nearly $400,000 from 72 starts -- kudos to the breeder for replicating the successful cross for Barb's Promise's first mating.)  Both stallions had a tendency to throw late-maturing progeny, a reality that probably doesn't help Barb's Promise's value as neither of her foals on the ground has yet made it to the starting gate.

The for-sale price of $2,500 on Starquine reflects her recent produce record: Barb's Promise did not produce a foal in 2009 and is barren this year; her 2008 Strong Contender (SRO) foal died.

Moving on....


Next up is Jaggered Dreams (pedigree), a 2001 mare by Runaway Groom. I mentioned above that I like Runaway Groom in part because of his damsire line; I'm also a big fan of this mare's tail-male broodmare sires. Hagley seemed for quite a while to be the best hope to continue the Olden Times branch of War Relic that is now clearly controlled by In Realty's grandsons.

Jaggered Dreams had 13 opportunites but never crossed the finish line first. She also never raced past 6 1/2 furlongs, which seems ill-advised when considering Runaway Groom's classic tendencies and dam Haggles 'n Hassles' preference for distances of about a mile.  Runaway Groom was champion 3-year-old in Canada and his big wins came in the Travers (gr. I) on dirt at Saratoga, and the Breeders' Stakes (Woodbine) and Prince of Wales Stakes (Fort Erie) on turf in Canada, all at age 3. Haggles 'n Hassles was a juvenile standout, winning three times and placing three others from 10 races at 2, including black type on both dirt and turf.

This background gives me the idea that Jaggered Dreams' foals will be able-footed on all surfaces including synthetics -- a huge advantage in the future of racing.

Thus far, Jaggered Dreams has one foal to race, the 2009 winner Restless City. This 3-year-old gelding is the mare's first foal and is a son of Slew City Slew (SRO).  Slew City Slew was an inspired choice for a first mate for Jaggered Dreams: he's a well-bred stallion standing for a low fee, and as a top breed-to-race sire, he would increase the likelihood that the mare's first foal would be a winner and thus improve her catalog page.  The Slew City Slew/Jaggered Dreams pairing introduced a somewhat rare inbreeding, that of Jet Action -- a son of Kentucky Derby winner Jet Pilot and from the La Troienne female family -- who appears as broodmare sire of Hagley and of Seattle Slew's dam.  Again, it's frustrating to see a horse that seems bred for middle distances to be limited to sprints; of Restless City's 16 starts, only four have been contested at more than 6 1/2 furlongs.

Jaggered Dreams has two other colts still to race, a 2-year-old by the Danzig son Monashee Mountain and a yearling by Yankee Gentleman (SRO). Her 2008 breeding to Candy Ride (ARG) (SRO) unfortunately did not produce a foal -- it would have yielded Blushing Groom in both the damsire line of the foal and of Candy Ride, a pedigree pattern that proves successful over and over again.  Jaggered Dreams's listing of $3,000 on Starquine includes her 2009 cover by Spellbinder (SRO),


So -- if you were presented with these two mares and had to choose between them, which do you find to be the better pick?

53 Comments:

I would take Jaggered Dreams

BittelRoad 29 May 2009 1:20 PM

I like Jaggered Dreams.  First of all, I really like Hagley.  Secondly, with the War Relic in the background you also open up the chance for a 'chaser.  Most of that line do well over fences as well as on the flat.  I also like the Blushing Groom line, they seem to be fairly durable.  The foal from the current breeding could be real interesting, that is if you are willing to wait.  It appears to be from a relatively late maturing stallion so I would not expect a 2 year old flash.  I do like that she appears to be in foal for 2010, better than Barb's Promise who is just a promise for now, 2008 foal died, no foal in 2009, and barren for 2010.

Springsmom83 29 May 2009 1:30 PM

I'd have to pass on either one...extremely regional breeding, and we're breeding too much for the sake of breeding.  They're both young enough for a second career - NOT breeding.

elcab 29 May 2009 1:45 PM

Jaggered Dreams definitely. I like her breeding more even though Barb's Promise was a winner as well as her damn. I'm also a huge fan of Blushing Groom on the broodmare side.

Jon 29 May 2009 1:55 PM

Jaggered Dreams, for sure.  I'm not liking the fact that Barb's Promise is losing a lot of her foals so far, and even though Jaggered Dreams is a maiden, a much better pedigree.  I also like the bit about how her foals might be proficient on all surfaces - that's always a plus for me.

Showing Up 29 May 2009 2:07 PM

pass on both, no quality, no produce and no significant help coming in the pedigree. FYI: Runaway Groom began his breeding career in CA. he was trained by the Bald Eagle his last year of racing.

sibsummer 29 May 2009 2:19 PM

Neither. Barb's Promise clearly has fertility problems and Jaggered Dreams is a non-winner (make up 30% of the broodmare population and 15% of the dams of stakes winners). There are alot of good mares out there selling cheaply. As others have stated, these mares are young enough to move onto other careers.

Elaine 29 May 2009 2:45 PM

I have to agree with "elcab".  Too much breeding of mediocre mares.

Adele Maxon 29 May 2009 2:45 PM

Of the choice between the two mares, I choose Barb's Promise.I've always liked the Damascus line, and lurking way in her background is Plucky Liege who was the dam of Bull Lea, who is in the background of Dynaformer. Sometimes it takes a while for genes to surface, but when they do, and you never know when, you strike a bonanza like Barbaro. With the right stallion, that could happen with Barb's Promise. With 2 foals already, she's shown she can have a lfsn, so I don't know why she's barren right now, but she's my choice

sweet terchi 29 May 2009 2:54 PM

I agree with elcab, let 'em go be someone's useful pal and have a life without "foaling complications".

da3hoss 29 May 2009 3:16 PM

I prefer Jaggered Dreams.  She's got a winner already which is good.  Too bad the Candy Ride mating didn't take.  At least she has some young 'uns in the pipeline so she could look better in a year or two.  

It sounds like she didn't have the best opportunities while racing (or maybe she was just really slow) and her family seems to at least produce horses that can run and win a little.

Honestly, I'm not sure the breed needs $2500 mares in production right now but if you told me I could have one of them I'd take the Runaway Groom.  She could have some upside and if I was looking to breed to race (I'm in NY) there might be some stallions at moderate prices I'd be willing to try.  Otherwise, I might teach her to jump little jumps, just in case those 2 foals can't run a lick.  If they can run a bit, back she goes into production.

Sysonby 29 May 2009 3:41 PM

     I'd pick Barb's Promise .      Medaglia D'Oro's grandsire is Bailjumper who is the sire of Skip Trial .I think that means Barb's Promise might have a better chance if bred to the right stallion .

Pedigree Shelly 29 May 2009 5:48 PM

If I had to choose one of them, I'd opt for Barb's Promise, because I believe she has more potential upside. Ahe was a very poor racehorse, as was her 2nd and 3rd dams. But he dam, Skylak, was a quite good runner, as was Skylak's full-sister, both inbred to T.V. Lark's dam, Miss Larksfly 4x3. It is rather interesting that these two are by far the best produce of the poor runner, Lark O'Mine, and the only with such inbreeding. This, in and of itself, offers me some hope. I also like the fact that Skylak has produced a good runner (the With Approval colt who shows inbreeding to Tom Fool through his two best sons). Note also that Barb's Promise's broodmare sire, Partez, comes from a particularly strong female family-up close...So, I'd breed her to bite-back into Miss Larksfly as my primary objective. Showing Up would seem the best candidate weighing all considerations, and he also offers a Buckpasser-Tom Fool.  

sceptre 29 May 2009 5:54 PM

Jaggered Dreams. Better bloodlines and potential. Her breeding, in my opinion, is a better cross than Barb's Promise. I believe Jaggered Dreams is the better broodmare.

Smarty3Chimneys 29 May 2009 6:16 PM

I wouldn't particularly want to breed either of these, but if I had to pick, it would be Jaggered Dreams.

lucky 29 May 2009 6:24 PM

Neither of these mares should ever of been considered as broodmares.

In fact most broodmares today should be culled as we breed way to many unsound racehorses. We should as an industry start breeding for quality and not just quantity. Trash is trash which ever way you try to market it.

I wish these two mares all the best in their new careers.

Keith M 29 May 2009 6:49 PM

Barb's Promise, without question.

Not only is she completely free of all the major sire-lines, she's tail-female to a family who has produced a top stallion.

She brings in lines of Boudoir, Firetop, Kerala, and Marguery, all significant families of quality that can be found in standing stallions.

Skip Trial daughters are also improving the stallions they're bred to while Runaway Groom daughters are not even close, even though they've been seeing the better group of stallions.

And let's not forget that she's a half-sister to a very good G3 winner. Hello people!

I agree with Sceptre that more Miss Larkfly should be a main objective, as well as doubling up on that Marguery clan via Partez.

To me, this is no contest.

Jas 29 May 2009 7:40 PM

Barb's Promise hasn't had a lot of foals, but I'm not ready to rule her out solely because of that. Based on the information given, she does NOT "clearly have fertility problems," as many of you seem to think. One foal died - how old was it? Why did it die? Was it weak at birth or die in an accident? And why did she not have a foal and why is she barren this year? Did she miscarry, or not conceive after being covered, or did the owner not breed her? This is important information to know before giving Barb's Promise the axe. Certainly information to know if you were interested in buying her, but in this case, since we are not given the details, I won't give her a black mark because of her breeding history.

Susan 29 May 2009 8:16 PM

I would breed Barb's Promise to Tale of the Cat or Unbridled's Song. Give the genes a boost. Any thoughts from you more knowledgeable ones?

sweet terchi 29 May 2009 8:43 PM

I don't think either are worth buying. Not sure I would breed to them even if given to me for free.

As the great John Nerud once said, 'never follow an empty wagon, nothing ever falls off'.

mikeabw 29 May 2009 8:47 PM

Why are people breeding these mares??  I truely believe they would be better served (and the breeding/racing industry) being pets/trail ponies. I dont mean to offend anyone but the people putting stud fees into these mares are Crazy.

stephanie 29 May 2009 9:03 PM

I would have to go with Jaggered Dreams. She is a wonderful cross with the Storm Cat line as well as the Unbridled line stallions. Which gives you a great breadth of potential breeding choices in a variety of price ranges. Her dam was also a fine producer- producing 10 foals and her siblings are quite young as well. If one of those was to jump up and do something that would be increase her value.

With regards to Barb's promise I fear that she may have some fertility issues, looking at her recent history. Also looking at her dam she only foaled 3 foals. She would make a wonderful companion horse in my estimation. Best of luck to both of these girls.

wolverine 29 May 2009 11:23 PM

Keith M, no animal is "trash"...just because they are not suitable as breeding/racing stock doesn't mean they cannot have useful lives in other venues...I had a number of top notch working Police/Narcotics/Bomb K-9's that didn't meet our strict conformation criteria...that didn't diminish them as working dogs...and some pups were just awesome family dogs...all were needed and had a place they fit well.

...makes me crazy when somehow a horse is made to be responsible for their not being racing material or having a less than stellar breeding background. I'm sure the two mares ran their untalented hearts out.

Don't breed them, the Jockey Club already registers 30,000 + foals a year...

da3hoss 30 May 2009 7:03 AM

Why would anyone consider these mares, in today's market, to be worthy of being broodmares?

Jaggered Dreams' 3-year old 2009 winner has not made more than $19,520 in 2009 if the Stallion Register Online is accurate.  He has 16 starts, most I would think came as this year.  Although he is a winner, he doesn't seem like a very good racehorse.

I don't know why anyone would consider investing in these mares (even if given them for free) when they seem to have nothing going for them.

They need new careers.

JAJ 30 May 2009 10:12 AM

I didn't think there were so many multi-billionares reading this blog. Are these mares going to produce a Derby winner? Not likely. Could they be useful local mares? Why not.

Skylark earned 313,000.

Her full sib, 150,000

Her son, almost 400,000

Is she not producing because of management or economic reasons?

Maybe Darley wouldn't take her but I would take a chance on Barbs Promise.  

Peteski13 30 May 2009 10:30 AM

Between the two, I feel that Jaggered Dreams would give you more for your investment in the mare itself.  She's had one winner already, she comes from the classic lines of Blushing Groom and Hagley, and she has blacktype close in her pedigree.  Another bonus is that Runaway Groom mares are looked at commerically well as well, while Barb's Promise may not be

achart 30 May 2009 11:21 AM

As I said, I would prefer Jaggered Dreams because of the potential for jumping in the pedigree.  If the foals were not good enough to race I have seen many descendants of Relic in show jumping, hunter, and dressage prospects.  His descendants are also well liked in warmblood pedigrees.  This was simply posed as to which of the mares did we consider the better broodmare prospect and why?  It was not posed as to which was more likely to produce a classic winner.

Springsmom83 30 May 2009 12:58 PM

      I think I found an interesting mating for Barbs Promise , Borrego, If your willing to spend the money ,Ithink it might work out!  The cross of El Prado and a Bailjumper mare produced Medaglia D'Oro ! I did the hypothetical mating between Barbs Choice and Borrego and this is what I found -The resulting foal would be inbred 5x5 to Raise a Native with aDP of 1 2 9 2 0 and a DI of 1.15 with a CD of 0.14   What do you think ??

Pedigree Shelly 30 May 2009 4:03 PM

Jaggered Dreams has more potential "IF" your the breed to race type.

Especially if you try her in NY with Mayakovsky at $3,000.

He's only had 1 SW from 51 total foals, but that 1 SW's 2nd dam is by Mt. Livermore (Blushing Groom).

And the Capote line seems to be working with the Runaway Groom line anyways like it did with Najran.   Who BTW Najran's 3rd dam is by a son of Nijinsky II like Jaggered dreams 2nd dam is also by a son of Nijinsky II.

CRob87 30 May 2009 4:58 PM

Being a small breeder one cannot afford those high price broodmares, yearlings or two year olds so we have to look at those mares that many of you would say you would cull but do you have the bucks to go buy that super high priced broodmare? A small breed does what they can with the money they have so with that said I would choose Barbs Promise. I like her breeding, lots of, what they call, old time bloodlines. No Northern Dancer and no Raise a Native. If I could afford his stud fee I would take her to Dynaformer. Roberto son with a Damascus line daughter. I like the possible offspring from that mating.

Julie L. 30 May 2009 6:13 PM

To produce a foal that could race successfully at Woodbine, I would choose Jaggered Dreams. Could she produce a Derby winner? Not likely, but you might have said the same about Mining My Own!

Late maturity doesn't bother me. If I could afford a broodmare and afford to keep the foal to race, presumably I could afford to wait and start him/her for the first time at three, or even (as I've seen happen at Woodbine) at four. I'd breed the mare to a non-Northern Dancer stallion. Let's face it, ordinary folks breeding race horses seldom win Classic races anyway. They breed for conditions, allowances and claiming. You can make a lot of money even with a good claimer in the right spots, and have a lot of fun racing him/her.

But bottom line? I actually like both mares, and I do like the lack of Northern Dancer in the first mare, since outcrosses are badly needed. I would breed her to a stallion not descended from Northern Dancer, because the breed is becoming saturated with this blood and needs some other lines kept separate for future use.

So I guess if I had the money, I'd buy both! I would certainly get my money back at those prices, provided the foals were sound, athletic and sensible and suited to other disciplines besides racing. The durability in both pedigrees is appealing.

Terry 30 May 2009 9:41 PM

I honestly cannot decide.  Both mares have some very interesting 5th, 6th, and 7th generation ancestors. The problem is that when you play around with such a large gene pool you are going to get an enourmous amount of possible variations.  Each offspring is going have differences.  You may consistently breed the best to the best and get the worst. You don't always get stamina and soundness.  It is not an exact science and would most likely be best if these stallions were bred to a limited number of mares rather than 120 a season.  This commercial thing is way out of hand.

Hawkeye 30 May 2009 10:54 PM

I would not breed either one. I bet they'd both make nice trail horses.

largo1 30 May 2009 11:01 PM

I would choose Jaggered Dreams, coming from the Blushing Groom line. I would consider a stallion like Sky Classic that hails from the Nijinsky line. The Nijinsky - Blushing Groom cross has proven very successful. One comment for those out there that consider these mares a pure trash. Remember the one of the greatest racehorse ever was foaled by a mare not so appealing on paper and his name was "John Henry", but then again he does not stand alone. There are more than a few great horses that were foal by a not so desireable mare. We tend to forget that when we breed the best to the best, we hope for the best. The same can be said when anyone decides to breed a mare they consider the best.

If we don't follow our own beliefs and theories on breeding than this will truely be the Sport of Kings and that will be because we would not be able to afford it.

Dementa 31 May 2009 1:21 AM

         Scot,I wanted to ask your opinion on the selection of Borrego for Barbs Promise ,good or bad ? I appriciate your expertise on this subject !

  • Scot's reply:  The best horse bred on this cross is Medaglia d'Oro (El Prado out of a Bailjumper mare) -- he could run all day in top company, and I believe he would've held his own in sprint company if he'd been pointed in that direction.  Borrego adds some class and solidifies the middle-distance or classic influences -- could be an interesting choice.
Pedigree Shelly 31 May 2009 1:23 PM

Pedigree Shelly, good choice. I looked him up and the fee is very reasonable. If the owner is by chance looking at this blog I hop they would consider him.

sweet terchi 31 May 2009 7:41 PM

What a fun exercise, interesting ideas being put forth. A good horse can come from anywhere. With both mares having Gr1 sires from prepotent sirelines why not try either one, they're not setting you back a fortune. Any thoughts on Barb's Promise x  Hero's Tribute (3x3 Damascus) or Jaggered Dreams x Kayrawan (3x3 Blushing Groom, maybe another Carson City) Anyway we can dream!  

Michael D 01 Jun 2009 12:10 AM

Jaggered Dreams, love the Blushing Groom line, stoute pedigree but never campaigned with that in mind and traces on the bottom line to a 1000 Guineas Winner.

Tony!!! 01 Jun 2009 1:13 AM

Dementa, I so respect your statement about John Henry, so please don't get me wrong, but for the one John Henry maybe born in a year (and when was the last time a John Henry who reached his level with that pedigree was born?) over 12,000 unwanted Thoroughbreds still go to slaughter. It's wonderful the number is down, but it's not so much that breeders have stepped up to the plate, it's that so many people are into rescue...time for the breeders to work as hard as the rescuers to breed only the absolute best they can.

These two girls should have a life as a beloved riding pal in some new venue, even if it's trail buddy.

da3hoss 01 Jun 2009 8:44 AM

I AGREE I WITH DA3HOSS,

 THESES MARES SHOULD BE DRY, I UNDERSTAND THE SMALL TIME BREEDER. ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT A PARTICULAR CROSS YOU MUST DO IT YOURSELF. AS I HAD TO, I LOVE ARAB/QH CROSSES. BUT NOT THE ONES I FIND ALREADY BORN.

 MY YEARLING IS HALF ARAB/QH THAT I BRED.  I ALSO HAD A BIG TALK WITH MYSELF ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IF I DO NOT LIKE THE RESULTING FOAL.

WILL I STILL WANT THE FOAL, WILL ANYONE ELSE?  AM I READY TO TAKE THE FOAL MYSELF TO A SLAUGHTER FACILITY AND WATCH HER GET BOLTED.

LUCKILY, I GOT WHAT I WANTED, A GEORGEOUS DUN FILLY. ARAB HEAD WITH, A NICE NECK, AND SOME OF THE HEAVY HIP AND SHOULDER OF A QH.

 IF EITHER OF THESES MARES ARE BRED AGAIN, WHO WILL WANT THEIR FOALS?  WHAT IF NOT ONE OF THEM IS A RUNNER, THEN WHAT?

PERSONALLY, IF I HAD TOO, I WOULD PICK BARB'S PROMISE, MY HORSE IS HURT, I NEED SOMETHING TO RIDE.

I LIKE HER CONFORMATION AND STYLE, PLUS TALK ABOUT BEING SEASONED AND NO SPOOK! ALL THE HARD WORK DONE.

I WOULD GIVE BARB'S PROMISE A NEW CAREER AS A BARREL HORSE.

AMY ROONEY 01 Jun 2009 10:15 AM

Jaggered Dreams would be the better broodmare.She has the bloodline from past generations that would yeild her great foals if bred to the right studs.

Rhoda 01 Jun 2009 11:34 AM

Barb's Promise would be my pick. Though neither of these mares have standout pedigrees or were top preformers, I like that she has no Northern Dancer in her pedigree and that she's not inbred to death. Theres always potential to give the gene pool a boost with a good cross. I'd actually stay away from the Unbridled line with her and stick with an older stallion with more foundation blood, like Dynaformer. Again: no Northern Dancer there. Too bad his stud fee is astronomical... oh well - fun excersise.

Lady Ruffian 01 Jun 2009 12:22 PM

Many here have suggested that breeding mares such as these (rather than others deemed "better") would, more likely, increase the "unwanted" (rescue-type) population. Not sure that argument holds any water. Breeding less horses would certainly decrease the number of unwanteds, but just breeding "better" horses in the same total numbers shouldn't decrease the relative number of eventual unwanteds. Another method for decreasing the number of unwanted racehorses would be to retire more sound, and to have them be initially broken and trained with not just racing in mind...More food for thought: Taking Barb's Promise as example-it seems rather clear that "nicking" plays a minor (if any) role when selecting potential mates for her. Points out the mistake all too many make in relying too heavily on "nicking" data (pedigree-wise, there's so much more to consider).    

sceptre 01 Jun 2009 5:10 PM

Barb's Promise has a nice pedigree

but her fertility issues would give me pause - she would make someone a good trail horse. Jaggered Dreams would be the better brood mare.

I see nothing wrong with Northern Dancer in a pedigree. But I would shy away from anything doubled

up on Raise a Native when looking for a stallion to breed her too.

AnneM 02 Jun 2009 9:34 AM

      Thanks Scot for taking the time and,  leaving me a comment on my pick :) Thanks also to Sweet Terchi for the positive comment :) I have done alot of research on  Borrego .I'm looking forward to the next subject !  

Pedigree Shelly 02 Jun 2009 6:25 PM

This is an interesting question, and I thank the poster for letting us chew the fat on this subject.

I would remind all that Rex Ellsworth drove a truck to Kentucky in the depth of the Great Depression and picked up a truck load of Thoroughbred mares and fillies for $600. From this modest start he ultimately went on to breed Swaps, Terrang, Olden Times, Prove It, Correspondent. Some of his early stakes winners came from cheap mares. I can't recall if the dam of Swaps did much on the track, but her dam Iron Maiden by War Admiral also produced Iron Liege.

Yet it was Iron Maiden's daughter by the unheralded Beau Pere who produced the better derby winner.

The big unanswered question is why neither mare was not trained to run beyond a mile. This would have given a better reading. So the lack of class may possibly be due to poor trainers rather than the horse itself.

 I think TV Lark was under appreciated as a horse and sire but as a hypothetical breeder on a low budget = and I have bought registered mares for as low as $300 - and boarded them in Utah for as low as $50 a month year round if I bred to one of the farm stallions, this is not so hypothetical.

 But I would take the Runaway Groom mare because she has not been unproductive, for whatever reasons, three years in a row.

swaps 02 Jun 2009 6:56 PM

the grey mare is my pick. Quarter

Horse breeder could inject some

needed hybrid vigor into their

"ranchy" horses, or she could produce a nice barrel, or short

track horse.  

katethegreat 04 Jun 2009 11:20 AM

Barb's Promise has much better chance to produce something good because she is a winner and there's a lot better black type up close, including her stakes winning dam.

Jane 04 Jun 2009 12:43 PM

Both mares have good and bad features in their pedigree, but I would recommend Jaggered Dreams over Barb's Promise as she clearly has more breeding options available.

Her own breeding was heavily conflicted and explains why she was a poor performer.

Her first foal by Slew City Slew was a reasonable attempt to correct her breeding faults and this showed on the track.

However her best foals will be her last two, the Yankee Gentleman colt should be a solid racehorse and while he may not set the world on fire as a 2 yr old he will definitely train on and be a strong 3 yr old.

By far her best foal will be the Spellbinder (colt hopefully) and this horse should start to show his true form as a 2yr old and will go on to become an excellent 3 yr old, with his best distance being 5-7 furlongs.

I would strongly recommend buying Jaggered Dreams both for her broodmare potential and the foal she is currently carrying, who should easily recoup the purchase price on the track.

Aussie Racer 04 Jun 2009 6:47 PM

I would take the Gray, Jaggered Dreams.  She should have raced over a mile and after she was four. I am also fond the the Fair Play family with the tendency to late maturity and durability.Her sire's family favors distances, too. I think her trainer was in error.  Of course there could have been owner input that did not allow for distance races.  I also look at her potential for producing steeplechase and/or eventing prospects. If her current off spring do not rise to expectations, she would make a good event horse where durability is a asset.

NJ 05 Jun 2009 11:31 AM

I pick Barb's Promise! Of course I am biased -- I happen to own her. lol

Barb's Promise is winning mare out of a multiple stakes winner of more than $300K. Her first dam only had three foals, one of which was a graded stakes winner of almost 400K. She has some black type in every generation back to T V Lark. She is completely free of Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer -- a total outcross. Wow -- what's a broodmare got to do to get any respect these days?

Isn't Barb just what the industry should be breeding? Extremely sound racehorses from families with a good percentage of black type?

For example: Barb comes from a small family. There are only 29 foals out of her 1st through 4th dams. Skylak had 3 foals, Lark O' Mine had 11 foals etc. Of the 29 foals produced by her direct female line, 1st through 4th dams there were:

1. 1 Champion

2. 2 Graded Stakes Winners -- 6.9%

3. 7 Stakes Winners -- 24%

4. 9 Stakes Horses -- 31%

6.9% Graded Stakes Winners from foals! 24% Stakes Winners from foals! Storm Cat eat your heart out! A. P. Indy, only in your dreams!

I have opted not to pay for a four dam pedigree for  Jaggered Dreams but the produce of her female line would not compare on a percentage basis -- which is all that matters in the end.

Here is my chanllenge: can anyone find a mare having a 4 dam produce record better than Barb's Promise on a percentage basis?

(Don't give the percentages for a single dam, I'm looking for long term trends -- rember Skylak has 33 percent Graded Stakes winners from foals!)

Greg 11 Jun 2009 12:24 PM

I would take Jaggered Dreams since she has already produced a winner out of one foal to race. I also really like her bloodlines and even though she never won, she has the background to produce them and already has.

Jessy 01 Jul 2009 4:31 PM

Barb's Promise (barren) for $2,500 and Jaggered Dreams (in foal to Spellbinder) for $3,000.  Let's form a pool and see this through!  The winnings (if any) can be donated to the Jockeys Guild.  Anyway, my money is on Barb's Promise.

Dave BC Canada 30 Jul 2009 12:37 AM

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