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El Prado and A.P. Indy -- A Cross Waiting to Happen

We've thought for a while now that El Prado (IRE) (TrueNicks,SRO) and A.P. Indy (TrueNicks,SRO) was a combination that had to enjoy success somewhere down the line. In fact we've a few youngsters on the ground with that combination. The reason? A.P. Indy's granddam, Lassie Dear, is a Tom Fool/Sir Gaylord cross, while El Prado's classic-winning dam, Lady Capulet, is a Sir Gaylord/Tom Fool cross.

The combination came to grade I-winning fruition December 13 when Laragh took the Hollywood Starlet Stakes (gr. I). She is by first-season sire sensation Tapit (TrueNicks,SRO) , out of the El Prado mare Rose of Summer.

Of course, the cross of A.P. Indy and El Prado's sire, Sadler's Wells, was well-represented this year by multiple grade I winner Music Note, and the Sadler's Wells/Seattle Slew cross has a well above opportunity strike rate. Perhaps the key is that Sadler's Wells carries Djeddah, who is inbred to sisters from the Frizette family, where Seattle Slew's granddam is line-bred to Frizeur, a daughter of Frizette. Funnily enough, Distorted Humor, who also has Djeddah, and loves to pick up that strain, has grade I winners out of mares by both A.P. Indy (Any Given Saturday (TrueNicks,SRO)) and El Prado (Bit of Whimsy).

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14 Comments:

Perhaps we are always looking for the answer when the answer is really staring us straight in the face.

I'm not disputing the reasons for the nick but then could it be that this nick works because both stallions are high class. I'm not surprised A P Indy and Sadler's Wells work well together. A P Indy is a world class stallion and Sadler's Wells is the greatest in European History!

El Prado is also a very decent stallion in his own right and I'm not surprised by his success with A P Indy line Sires, as 3/4 of the pedigree would be outstanding!

Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting that mating the best stallions on the best stallions is the key i'm just pointing out the facts.  

Kevin Sommerville 22 Dec 2008 11:16 AM

Mr Sommerville should concentrate on the fact that El Prado has been on the heels of Ap Indy more than once as a sire. When one looks at El Prado's pedigree it is going to be no surprise that he will make an outstanding broodmare sire. Unlike AP INDy he was bred to a lot of substandard types and yet he managed to become one of the best sons of Sadlers Wells a long time before any of the others....so the word decent is not reflective. So in the words of a famous breeder ,breed the best to the best.

DERMOT CARTY 23 Dec 2008 8:09 AM

I wouldn't ignore the class aspect, but there are plenty of well-bred horses that don't cross well together. This was a potential pedigree affinity that looked good before it was ever tested, and early signs are that it works.

I'd also agree with Dermot Carty, that El Prado looks a very promising broodmare sire. He was the first son of Sadler's Wells to really make it in the Northern Hemisphere. I also love horses that make good starts as broodmare sires, even though they mostly covered moderate mares in their early crops. Dixieland Band, who once was everyones' "cheap Northern Dance,r" would be an example.

Alan Porter 23 Dec 2008 11:23 AM

HI ALAN THE CROSS OF ARAZI/VICE REGENT IS A GOOD NICKS A 1GWINNERS  IS ON THE CROSS NAMED AREUTALKINTOME CROSS OF ARAZI/VIC REGENT THE DAM OF AREUTALKINTOME IS BOSSA NOVA SHE IS BY NOSFERATU/SHARPO CROSS SO ALAN THE CROSS OF NORTHERN DANCER/HABITAT AND ARAZI IS A GOOD NICKS ALAN.

trevor 23 Dec 2008 3:01 PM

Mr Prospector is tail female Frizeur and he is pretty popular too.  He also has worked with El Prado mares.

Frizette does seem to appear in a lot of pedigrees and I doubt whether she is in better one's only. Indeed Frizette appears crossed in a lot of pedigrees and plenty of them are bad runners.

I tried an El Prado and a Sadler's Wells mare with AP Indy to get a True Nick rating and both were B+ based on Ap Indy x Northern Dancer.  

With that B rating in mind my thought on AP Indy x Sadler's is that I would not want to pay a lot of money mating a predominantly dirt stallion with a turf stallion.  

I was surprised that the pairings had not met enough times to produce a rating.  Sadler's Wells I understand because of the geographic separation.  

I expected to see el Prado and AP Indy with a rating.  Still if there is no rating yet for AP Indy x El Prado there cannot be many runners on that cross and we have Laragh and Cobalt Blue winning group races it is a safe bet that this is a cross waiting to happen!

AP 23 Dec 2008 7:25 PM

I believe that El Prado progeny are durable. Is this correct?  Durability is critical to breeders who have few mares.  Second question, do you believe that El Prado gets more influence from Sadlers Wells or from his inbred dam [Alcibaides]?  I have an inbred mare 3 X 3 to Gold Digger. She is very correct and has had success racing in mid level claiming ranks.  I am looking for a stallion with distance and durability.

dave york 24 Dec 2008 6:31 AM

It was interesting to read Alan's comments on not recommending to spend a lot of money on crossing a dirt stallion with a turf stallion. Were you merely making this recommendation due to the B rating alone? What about a cross of a dirt stallion with a turf stallion that rates A or better?

Philip Anderson 29 Dec 2008 5:47 AM

Hi Phillip

Thanks for the question. In general, I have been somewhat wary of breeding out-and-out dirt sires to pure turf pedigrees (or vice-versa). That would be irrespective of nick rating or pedigree affinity.

Admittedly, it sometimes works, but over the last 30 years or so, there has been a diversification of types, so you risk getting some mixed biomechanics.

Now of course with the rise of the all-weather tracks that might all be about to change!

Alan Porter 29 Dec 2008 2:33 PM

Okay, are there any more promising

2 year olds (male or female) with this El Prado and A.P.Indy cross

besides Laragh?

Nick Klar 29 Dec 2008 3:17 PM

Gr II winner Cobalt Blue (by Golden Missile) is by a son of AP Indy out of a El Prado mare.

There is a decent 2yo named Montana Fields (by Pulpit) out of an El Prado mare also. Has won 2 races and ran in stakes races (the Debutante Gr I and Oak Leaf Gr I) earlier in the year.

brogers 29 Dec 2008 8:20 PM

funny thing is I saw a mare who was related along the lines to Artie Schiller [I think it was 2 or 3 generations, cant remember right now] and I had a friend bid on her because all I could think was to find the suitable El Prado son to breed her to. Funny, you mention this now and I was thinking it months ago. Sadly I could not win the mare, but if I had oh boy I would have had a befitting colt. I have been studying Thoroughbred Pedigrees since I was 15 years old, that and of course training  methods ;) Thank you for the insightful articles! All the more for me to wrap my brain around :)

CW

ChevyWoman 30 Dec 2008 4:12 PM

DAVE YORK SHOULD CONSIDER ANOTHER SON OF SADLER'S WELLS THAT STANDS IN FLORDIA. HE HAS PLENTY OF SPEED AND SHOWED IT WHEN HE BROKE HIS MAIDEN AS A TWO YEAR OLD IN AN IMPRESSIVE FIELD AT THE CURRAGH. hE WENT IN AFTERWARDS THAT YEAR TO PLACE IN A GROUP 1 WHEN HE CAME TO NORTH AMERICA HE GREATLY IMPROVER IN CLASS

THE NAME OF COURSE IS SLIGO BAY AND HE IS OUT OF THE FULL SISTER TO GLORIOUS SONG THIS STALLION HAS THE BEST FEMALE THAT ONE COULD LOOK FOR. AND IT THE CHANGING SURFACES HE IS ONE HECK OF A POLY TRACK SIRE. HE WAS BRED TO MODERATE MARES AND I DO BELIEVE THE BEST IS YET TO COME AS IS MY BELIEF THE STALLION MUST HAVE A SUPERIOR FEMALE AND THIS IS WHAT SLIGO BAY HAS

Dermot Carty 01 Jan 2009 9:31 AM

Reply to Dermot.  I believe your suggestion has merit. I am looking for a stallion that will reinforce the inbreeding to Gold Digger or find a complete outcross.  I think Notional or Seattle Fitz would be the best choices to reinforce.  El Prado is one of the best bred sires available and his success is undisputable.  I have always thought we need more stallions like El Prado to improve the breed overall.  He was affordable earlier in his career.

dave york 03 Jan 2009 8:00 PM

For Dave York:

A horse with Forestry gives a three-parts-sister to Gold Digger. He's got some sons at stud - Discreet, Forest Danger, Forest Grove, Teton Forest, The Green Monkey, Alluvial, Congressionalhonor, etc.

Alan Porter 06 Jan 2009 11:33 AM

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