Ratings Generated in 2014
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Updated Cross Notations for TrueNicks

TrueNicks cross notations are now more descriptive, telling you specifically which generations are being considered in each rating.

To make the nick rating statistically relevant, TrueNicks requires at least two stakes winners or 15 starters to rate a cross. If these criteria are not met by the direct Sire/Broodmare Sire cross, the TrueNicks algorithm incorporates previous generations in order to gain a stronger representation of sire line affinity, going only as far back as the grandsire of the sire and the grandsire of the broodmare sire.

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I wonder what Quiet American over a Fly So Free mare (So Fly) would rate???

Robert 13 Aug 2010 12:39 PM

Hi Robert,

Quiet American is a TrueNicks subscribed stallion, so you can find him in our stallion roster and run unlimited complimentary reports. Or, just click here for the Quiet American--So Fly TrueNicks report

ITapp 13 Aug 2010 1:03 PM

I was wondering how to find nicking stats on stallions that have either moved to another country or recently died but have yearlings  Would using one of their sons or a close relative work?  I'm speaking mostly of Dehere and Lawyer Ron, although there are probably a couple others that I am forgetting.

michelle 13 Aug 2010 9:30 PM


Thanks for the question. Yes, you can get a TrueNicks report for any horse, living or dead. Complimentary stallions on our site have been subscribed by their stud farms as a service to breeders. For all other stallions, you can go to this page on www.equineline.com to buy the TrueNicks report for $20. You will need to create an equineline account if you do not already have one.

The other part of your question-- yes, you could use other sires from the same sire line to approximate the nick rating. However, for a horse like Dehere, he will have certain affinities that are specific to him as a stallion, and a rating of "Deputy Minister and sons" wouldn't always be the best way to analyze him. In general, affinities maintain along a sire line, but there will always be certain crosses where a stallion behaves differently than his sire (for example, Medaglia d'Oro has already branched away from El Prado in several cases).

Keep in mind that the TrueNicks Broodmare Analysis Report allows you to use any 50 stallions against one mare, so you can choose any stallion -- living or dead or in another country -- and see how he crosses with your mare.

Ian Tapp 14 Aug 2010 12:30 AM

I know this is off the subject, but I need an answer and maybe you can help ! I'm having a problem getting data on a horse my father once owned . His name is Motormouth Eckman , a dk bay/br gelding 1973 by Verbatim - Waylaid by Warfare . He was named after Charley Eckman , a well known sportscaster from Baltimore . Charley was well aware he had a horse named after him . He thought it was a good idea as long as the horse ran as fast as he could talk ! This horse shows up on Equineline.com but, is missing on other databases !? My mother is upset because he was a hard knocking racehorse who always earned his keep and met his demise on the clubhouse turn , when claimed by someone who didn't care if he was hurt and ran him anyways !! Is there an explanation of why his name is gone ? Pedigree Query.com doesn't even show ME as one of Waylaid's progeny ?? If you could help me figure this out , I'd gratefully appreciate it ! Thank You for taking the time to read this !

Shelly & Mom

Pedigree Shelly 16 Aug 2010 7:43 PM


PedigreeQuery.com is a Wikipedia-style database in that anyone can add/modify horses listed there. It is an incomplete database, but if you desire, you could add Motormouth Eckman yourself.

Motormouth Eckman

Dk B/Br, 1973

Verbatim--Waylaid, by Warfare

Raced age 2-7

96 starts, 17 wins, 11 places, 14 shows, earned $90,445

Last start 7/11/80, Penn National

Ian Tapp 16 Aug 2010 10:20 PM

Ian , Thank You so much for taking the time to help me figure this out ! Much Appriciated ! Sorry about the late response , I've been very busy lately !

Sincerely , Shelly

Pedigree Shelly 18 Aug 2010 7:45 PM

Congrats on these updated cross notations, this is helpful.  But please help me understand how the algorithm decides which stallion to use.  For example, I’m not sure why the winner of this year’s Arlington Million gets a True Nicks score of A and not C.

Debussy’s TrueNicks score of A uses Sharpen Up and his sons and grandsons over Sadlers Wells and his sons and grandsons.  Why wouldn’t the model use Diesis  instead of Sharpen Up from the top line?  That pairing gets a True Nicks score of C.  

Apparently, the Debussy algorithm passed by Diesis and went to Sharpen Up.  Yet there seems to be a sufficient number of stakes winners pairing Diesis and his sons and grandsons over Sadlers Wells and his sons and grandsons.  To test that I ran a True Nicks score for the hypothetical pedigree of Sweet Return over Opera Comique, dam of Debussy.  That score was C, using Diesis over Sadlers Wells.  I realize that the True Nicks score for SR/OC couldn’t use Sharpen Up – he’s beyond the grandsire of the sire -  but if Diesis is used for Sweet Return over Opera Comique, why couldn’t it be used for Debussy?

russf 22 Aug 2010 10:12 PM


Great question-- Byron Rogers has responded to your comment in a new post: click here to read it.

Ian Tapp 23 Aug 2010 1:40 PM


I've got a newspaper clipping with motormouth Eckman listed in a Sixth race.  Says he's "fresh and dangerous".  Probably from some racing page in a paper. Was cut out because my last name is Eckman and someone sent it to my dad. Found it in my mom's stuff. Send me your address and I'll mail it to you.  I've got no need to keep it. eckmanwilliam@yahoo.com

Sailor-bill 01 Oct 2010 12:19 PM

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