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Coil's Haskell Gives Spotlight Back to Point Given

Back in mid-June, we blogged that “On the West Coast, Bob Baffert has a potential good 'second season' 3-year-old in Coil (TrueNicks A++), who took his record to three wins in four starts by capturing the Affirmed Handicap (gr. III). Coil was apparently under consideration for the Woody Stephens, but he shouldn’t have much trouble carrying his speed a distance of ground, as he’s by Point Given out of a Theatrical mare.

Well, on Sunday, Coil sprang to somewhere near the top of the 3-year-old division with a win over the Preakness Stakes (gr. I) winner Shackleford, and Belmont Stakes (gr. I) hero Ruler On Ice, in the nine-furlong Haskell Invitational Stakes (gr. I, video below). This effort also places Coil firmly among the leading offspring of his sire, Point Given (TrueNicks,SRO). Champion 3-year-old and Horse of the Year (and like Coil, a Haskell winner), Point Given retired to stud at a $125,000 stud fee but was advertised as being available for $7,500 live foal in 2011. As those numbers suggest, Point Given hasn’t achieved all that his supporters might have hoped when he retired to stud, but the record shows that he can get a good one. In addition Coil, he’s also been represented by Go Between, who took the Pacific Classic (gr. I); the Del Mar Debutante (gr. I) victress Point Ashley; Sealy Hill, who was the first filly to claim Canada’s Triple Tiara, and earned honors as Horse of the Year, champion 3-year-old filly, and champion turf female in Canada; champion Canadian turf mare Points of Grace; and graded scorers Air Commander (TrueNicks) and Point Determined (TrueNicks,SRO).

There are very few $7,500 stallions who can sire those kind of runners, and that makes it worth a look at Point Given’s stakes winners, since, with the right mare, he appears to be the kind of horse who could get a real runner for an owner/breeder, so it’s worth having a look at what appear to be his most notable affinities.

Even at a passing glance, one trend is particularly obvious. Three of Point Given’s stakes winners, including Sealy Hill (TrueNicks A++) and Point Ashley (TrueNicks A++) are out of Seattle Slew line mares (from daughters of Boston Harbor and Slew o’Gold, respectively), while Seattle Slew also appears in the second dams of two other Point Given stakes winners (that places Seattle Slew in five of 17 Point Given stakes winners, which is 29%). A point of interest here is that Point Given is by the diminutive Thunder Gulch (TrueNicks,SRO) (by Gulch) out of a mare by the far more substantial Turkoman, and at 17 hands, physically takes far more after his broodmare sire than his sire. Gulch, and particularly Thunder Gulch, have a relatively poor record with Seattle Slew line mares, but Turkoman combined successfully with that strain, and it’s interesting to note that Turkoman is out of a mare by Table Play (by Round Table out of a Nasrullah mare, a reverse of the famed Nasrullah/Princequillo cross). Seattle Slew himself was an extended Nasrullah/Princequillo cross, and his dam was by Poker, like Table Play, by Round Table out of a Nasrullah mare.

A similar pattern persists in two other notables by Point Given, Points of Grace (TrueNicks A++) and Go Between (TrueNicks A++). Points of Grace is out of a mare by Topsider (Nearco/Round Table cross, whose dam, Drumtop, is another Round Table/Nasrullah cross), and Go Between is out of a mare by Caerleon (Nearco/Round Table cross, out of a mare who is bred on a cross of Round Table over Royal Charger, the three-parts-brother to Nasrullah), and has a second dam by General Assembly (by Secretariat, a Nasrullah/Princequillo cross). As Caerleon is by Nijinsky II, we also get the combination of genetic relatives Nijinsky II and Storm Bird (broodmare sire of Thunder Gulch).

There are three other sire lines that have produced multiple stakes winners for Point Given: Blushing Groom, Broad Brush, and In Reality. Blushing Groom appears as broodmare sire of Winning Point, while his sons Blushing John (another Nasrullah/Princequillo cross) and Rahy, are broodmare sires of She’s Sensational and Fancy Point (all TrueNicks A++).

The grade III-winning Point Determined and stakes winner Lawrence the Roman – a horse who showed significantly above average talent, but whose career was compromised by injury – are both TrueNicks A++ and bred on very similar lines, both out of mares by Broad Brush, one with a dam by a son of Seattle Slew, and one with a dam by Seattle Slew. Point Given also has stakes winner The Max, who is out of a mare by Lost Code, a reverse cross (Ribot/Ack Ack) to Broad Brush.

As far as the In Reality line goes, Takedown is out of a mare by Valid Appeal, and Fifteen Love from a daughter of Known Fact (with a second dam by Seattle Slew’s grandsire, Boldnesian), again, both TrueNicks rated A++.

Willsboro Point is by Point Given out of a mare by Red Ransom (TrueNicks A+), and his second dam is by Sportin’ Life, who has a pedigree rather like Caerleon (broodmare sire of Go Between), as he’s by Nijinsky II, with a dam bred on the Round Table/Nasrullah cross (so also rather similar to Topsider, broodmare sire of Points of Grace). The one less obvious horse here is the listed winner Fareena, who is out of a mare by Elocutionist (by Gallant Romeo, from the Mahmoud line).

As far as Coil’s pedigree goes, he is TrueNicks rated A++ on the basis of the cross of Thunder Gulch and his sons with mares by Theatrical. Point Given has only three starters on the cross, all of whom are winners. However, the cross has been firmly established as a good one for Point Given’s sire, Thunder Gulch, who has three stakes winners from 28 starters out of Theatrical mares. We can note that there is actually a pedigree similarity between Thunder Gulch’s dam and Theatrical, as both are by sons of Northern Dancer out of mares that carry a double of the influential Hurry On/Tredennis cross (and both through the same horses, the Ascot Gold Cup winner Precipitation and the English Derby and St. Leger winner Coronach).

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16 Comments:

Point Given finally getting the respect that he deserves. After Coil is named 3YO champ, he will be a sought-after sire for years to come. Holla.

Jason Shandler 04 Aug 2011 3:56 PM

I was very touched when Gary Stevens visited Point Given and how it choked him still about the Derby that year,but you know even race horses forgive and love unconditionally and never hold grudges.Coil is a representation of his Dad and hope his year keeps going good and he gets HOY.

Tracy 04 Aug 2011 5:43 PM

Jason will be breeding to Point Given with loan on retirement funds, I am sure!

skyfire 04 Aug 2011 7:27 PM

I bet there was a smile on Gary Stevens face when Coil ran such a great race. As the jockey of Point Given no need for looking back at what could have been, look what is! Gary you gave Point Given the strength and courage on the track and look what his offspring has "Given" you. Whenever I hear the name Point Given I think of the both of you!

Fran Loszynski 05 Aug 2011 8:08 AM

i am a huge fan of point given an i am so glad one of his sons won a big race i hope now point given gets the resecpt he so deserves an that alot of breeders will breed their mares to him  he is a very good stallion an now i hope people will see it go point given i love you

jody 05 Aug 2011 10:10 AM

Alan's insights about what may work best with Point Given are interesting, but there's simply no basis for the comments (bloggers') that Point Given didn't receive ( initially, as a stallion) the "respect" he deserved. He was a great racehorse, and despite being not all that well-bred, was afforded large numbers of top quality mates during his first 4-5 covering years. He has produced nearly 500 foals of racing age (through his first 7 crops), a high % out of quality mares, but only 3% stakes winners. I can see no excuse for his meager showing-he has proven that his genotype is far from on par with his phenotype. But, he has sired at least two exceptional runners- Coil and Point Ashley-and this, in part, may be attributed (simplistically) to a greater liklihood of a fortuitous spin of the genetic wheel when one is both bred to large numbers of quality mates and also exhibited an outstanding phenotype.      

sceptre 05 Aug 2011 11:29 AM

Yeah, so when he has standout winners its because of his lucky "spin of the genetic wheel" but when his runners don't peform it's because of his "meager showing" as a stallion. Can't have it both ways.

As a side note, Barry Bonds, a career .300 hitter, was a great hitter 30% of the time but the other 70% of the time he wasn't good.

Jason Shandler 05 Aug 2011 2:00 PM

Jason-

Your comments are indicative of one who has little to no understanding of genetics. Not very surprising, as you likely are the result of a not too fortuitous spin of that wheel. All this aside, your opening paragraph is structured illogically.    

sceptre 05 Aug 2011 2:49 PM

One must remember J. Shandler has no sense of objectivity when it comes to Point Given, and now Coil (AKA "Shoil"). Therefore, his comments are at least questionable, perhaps without merit. ... One also wonders why Barry Bonds was used as the example.

JerseyTom 05 Aug 2011 2:59 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...Sorry, I fell asleep reading Sceptre's comments, once again. I'll respond when I wake up.

Jason Shandler 05 Aug 2011 3:05 PM

Ok, I'm up. Tom: Bonds was the first .300 hitter that "popped" into my mind. Anyone could have been used in the example to show how baseless the previous comment was.

Jason Shandler 05 Aug 2011 3:07 PM

Sceptre,

Point Given always concerned me when he went to stud, as he was a physical "outlier" and far more like his broodmare sire, Turkoman (a disappointing sire), than his sire, Thunder Gulch (a pretty solid stallion).

Whatever genetic profile he possessed, and whether he was likely to frequently pass on a superior physiology (something that can't be judged merely on whether a stallion is commercially "well-bred" or not), there was also going to be the difficulty of producing a foal with harmonious biomechanics.

However, it is clear that while it hasn't happened any where near as frequently as might have been hoped, from time to time, Point Given he can get a very smart horse. Obviously some of those are out of the high-quality mares he received when he stood for a high stud fee, but what interested me is that when he has worked, it has been with a relatively limited number of strains.

So while, I wasn't rushing to use him early on his stud career, for the right breeder with the right mare (a group pretty well-defined on pedigree), I would definitely use him for $7,500, especially if I thought I would have a chance to race on an all-weather surface.

Alan Porter 05 Aug 2011 4:40 PM

Wow, it sounds like some of you people expect every stallion to be producing 100 stakes winners or more. If you look at all of Point Given's runners his win percentage is good. He sires hard knocking runners and when I am at the racetrack and see one of his offspring running I pay attention. Genetics is a funny creature and one can never be positive which sire line crossed with which broodmare sire line is going to work. Crossing the best with the best does not always produce a good runner and sometimes crossing the not-so-good with the not-so-good produces a John Henry. In the long haul I believe Point Given will go down as a very useful sire with the ability to throw a knockout runner or two every year. And with his stud fee at a reasonable price he is now open to the breeders that are the backbone of this industry and produce stakeswinners from sires in that price range.

Julie L. 05 Aug 2011 6:02 PM

I think Point Given is a very useful stallion and if anything, could have much success with breeders and owners that are willing to wait and give the foals the time they need to mature. Point Given is a very large horse and any foal that takes after him is going to need to develop. He was a very talented horse and I think he will throw a classic winner yet.

Cris 23 May 2012 11:48 PM

 Its a difficult thing to figure out You can get a superstar from a nothing stallion and a nothing mare and a $16 million nothing, The Green Monkey, from royal bloodlines and perfect conformation.John Henry look like a bit player as a yearling but was the finest turf horse in history. These horses have to have that drive that when a rider gives them that hit with their whip they have to dig deep and give that extra effort.That something you can't breed but a horse as a individual must have it. You can run around and say this cross and that cross works but in the end that horse must want to lay down his body and give you 100%.Remember, in the end a lot more horses will make you look stupid than make you look like a genius.

Mark 11 Jan 2013 1:47 PM

Now that Point Given has moved to Calumet. I hope he is helpful in rebuilding the brand. He is an outstanding horse and will sire a classic winner I am sure. He needs breeders that give these foals time because he is so large. Because of who he is the temptation is to send them out there, but because of the large frame of these horses you might as well burn the check. Now that Gary Stevens is back, I would love to see a good PG out there with Gary at the wheel. Good luck to all.

Cris 13 Apr 2013 9:01 AM

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